Military Review

Evolution of Chinese destroyers

33
Evolution of Chinese destroyers



The development of this class of ships clearly shows the progress of the Chinese military shipbuilding. Yes, Chinese shipbuilders borrow and buy samples of weapons, electronics; adopt the technology of modern design; invite experts from abroad. But in the end, they formed a rather distinctive look of warships.

Before you start talking about the most advanced Chinese EM fleet, should talk about the project, which served as a kind of forerunner to later developments.

At the end of 90, the line of destroyers of the Chinese fleet was to be continued by the destroyer of the type “Lyukhay” of the project 051В (NATO code DDG “Luhai-class”), built with preservation of the principle decisions and the functional purpose of the prototype. The initial volume of the planned series of these ships is not reliably known, but by 1999, only one "hull" was put into operation - the Shenzhen Aircraft Company (board No. 167).

According to some information, they planned to install unified vertical PU and multifunctional control systems on the ship, yes, apparently, it did not go: set weapons and the weapons remained identical to the destroyers of the 052 project (see below the diagrams and photos in series of EM 052 etc. 051).

EM pr 052 (Lead ship "Harbin". Built at a shipyard in Shanghai. Displacement standard 4800 t, full 5700 t. Maximum length 148 m, width 16 m, draft 4,3 m. Power of a combined diesel-gas turbine unit 72200 hp, speed 31,5 node Armament: one eight-barreled anti-aircraft launcher HQ-7 (Chinese copy of the Naval Krotal air-defense missile system), eight C-802 anti-ship missiles, one twin 100-mm artillery unit and four paired 37-mm submachine guns, two three-tube 324-mm torpedo PLO apparatus, two Z-9 helicopter. In total, 1993-1996 built two units: "Harbin" and "Qingdao").



1 - 1х2 100-mm AU "type 79"; 2 - 1х8 PU ZRK "HQ-7"; 3 - AP radar detection VTS and SC "type 360"; 4 - AP OMS "type 347G"; 5 - 1x3 324-mm TA; 6 - PU PLC; 7 - 4х4 PU PU CRP “YJ-82”; 8 - radar VTs and NC; 9 - early warning radar "type 517"; 10 - 2х37-mm AU "type 76"


URO destroyer pr 051.



Displacement:
- standard: 6100 tons;
- complete: 6600 tons.
Length: 153 meter.
Width: 16,5 meter.
Draft: 6 meter.
Power plant (type x power): 2 GTE x 24300 hp + 2 Diz. MTU 12V1163TB83 x 4420 hp
Maximum travel speed: 29 nodes.
Cruising range at 15 speed knots: 14000 miles.
Crew (officers): 250 (42) people.


Armament:
- percussion: 4x4 PU ck C-803 / J-8-3;
- anti-aircraft: 1x8 ADMS HQ-7 (32);
- artillery: 1x2 100 mm AU TYPE 79A; 4x2 37 mm AU TYPE 76A;
- antisubmarine: 2x3 324 mm TA (Mk46 Mod.1 / YU-7);
aviation: 2 KA-28.
Electronic weapons:
- radar: radar TYPE 517H-1 (ОВЦ); Radar TYPE 360S / DRBV-15 SEA TIGER (ОВЦ / ОНЦ); Radar TYPE 381A (ОВЦ / ОНЦ);
- weapon control: 2 radar TYPE 347G (37 mm AU); Radar TYPE 343G (AU, PKR); Radar TYPE 345 / CASTOR II (SAM); 2 ECO OFD-630
RTR and EW: 2х15 PU LZ TYPE 946; SIGNAAL RAPIDS SRW210A; RAMSES;
- hydroacoustic stations: GAS DUBV-23; GUS DUBV-43 (PBA);
- communication and control system: TAVITAC BIUS; SATCOM.

The backlog by corps was used in the future. As a result, the 052S ships appeared in the Chinese Navy, which to some extent became the modern version of the URO frigates of the beginning - the middle of the 60-s (in fact, increased destroyers armed with medium-range air defense missile systems; typical representatives of the French "Suffren" and the American " Farragat ").





Two EMs ("Shenyang", tactical number 115; and "Shiyiazhuang", 116) were commissioned in 2006-2007, the total displacement is 7000 / 8630 t .; in terms of dimensions, architecture and power engineering are identical to Shenzhen, but the significant improvement is the use of six eight-charge launchers of the Russian C-300F air defense system on these ships, the Rif-M and two MNFs 730 type in the export designation, in aggregate ensured a significant increase in air defense capacity.




The destroyer “Shijiazhuang” (“second building” of 051 Ave.), which was commissioned in 2007, can be clearly seen: AP “Rif-M” air defense system (antenna in the “littered” state) on the roof of the aft superstructure, launchers of “Reef- M "(in the nose - two PU, and in the stern - four PU)


Unfortunately, the radical strengthening of the air defense capabilities had to be paid by a sharp decrease in the capabilities of the PLO: due to the placement in the stern setting of the PU ZRK, there was no longer enough space for the helicopter hangar. Although the helipad has a place to be



The destroyers of the 052В and 052С projects - the NATO code DDG "Luyang class" and "Luyang-II class", respectively, became a separate branch of the development of Chinese shipbuilding. The ships built “in the same building and power engineering” were armed with various types of weapons and armaments (despite the fact that the project is designated as 052, with the Lühu type EM, they have little in common with the DDG “Luhu-class” code; larger).


The destroyers of the project 052В (fig. Above) and 052С - the general and the particular:
1 - 1x1 100-mm AU "Creusot-Loire T100C"; 2 - 1х1 PU Shm-M ZRK: 3 - 6 x6 PU ZRK "HQ-9"; 4 - MZAK "type 730"; 5 - 2х18 PU setting false targets; 6 - 1x3 324-mm TA; 7 - AP radar "Fregat-ME"; 8 - radar with PAR; 9 - 4х4 PUJ CRP "YJ-83": 10 - 2X4 PU PKR "YJ-62": 11 - 517 type early warning radar



EM "Guangzhou", type 052B



6500 / 7500 T .; 164 / 17,2 / 9,5 m .; 2 GTDX36300 + 2 diz.x4900 hp; 32 knots .; 4x4 PU UCR J-8-3; 2х1 ZRK STYLE 1 (48); 100-mm AU; 2x7 30-mm ZACK; 2x3 TA; 2x12 RBU; KA-286500 / 7500 t .; 164 / 17,2 / 9,5 m .; 2 GTDX36300 + 2 diz.x4900 hp; 32 knots .; 4x4 PU UCR J-8-3; 2х1 ZRK STYLE 1 (48); 100-mm AU; 2x7 30-mm ZACK; 2x3 TA; 2x12 RBU; helicopter KA-28


The destroyers are equipped with the ZKJ-7 combat information control system, the HN-900 automated data line (the Chinese equivalent of Link-11), the SNTI-240 satellite communications equipment, the 3-coordinate radar for detecting air targets "Fregat-M2ЕМ" (Top Plate, E band: aircraft detection range - 230 km, anti-ship missiles - 50 km), four radar control systems for the ZRK MP-90 (Front Dome), 2 artillery fire radar MZAK Type 347G (EFR-1), anti-aircraft control radar and GK Type Artillery radar control systems (Band Stand, I / J band)

There are two ships in the series: "Guangzhou", tactical number 168, and "Wuhan", respectively 169 (built in 2000-2004).




The project is very balanced in shock capabilities, as well as air defense / anti-aircraft defense. It can be said, very good middling. The closest analogue (and even for a number of systems and models of weapons) - Indian EM class "Delhi"

EM "Lanzhou", type 052C.



7000 t .; 155 / 17 / 6 m .; GTD x48600 hp + diz.x8840 hp; 29 knots .; 4500 m. (15 knots.); 280 (40) people; 2x4 PU UCRR YJ12; 8x6 ATD HQ-9 or RIF-M; 1x100-mm AU; 2x7 30-mm ZACK; 2x3 TA; helicopter KA-28


The ships are equipped with combat information and control system H / ZBJ-1, automated data line HN-900 (Chinese analogue Link-11), satellite communications equipment SNTI-240, Type 438 radar (S-band, 450 km) with four phased arrays developed by Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology (formerly 14 Institute), 2-coordinate radar for detecting air targets Type 571Н-1 Knife Rest, control radar for SCRC and artillery MP-331 "Mineral-ME" (Russia), control radar shooting MZAK Type 347G Rice Lamp (EFR-1), under the ground SAS SJD8 / 9 (advanced DUBV-23) tow GUS ESS-1 (enhanced DUBV-43). Optoelectronic devices: OFC-3 optronic directors. EW facilities: 4x18-tube Type 726-4 decoy RL

The EM of this project has pronounced anti-aircraft capabilities achieved by deploying eight (six bow and two fodder) six-charge launchers of the Chinese complex “HQ-9”, a licensed and modified version of the Russian air defense system “Rif-M” of zone defense (a very, very big sign questions. - Note doktorkurgan) and two AU "type 730".


Anti-submarine capabilities are maintained at the level of the 052В pr., But the impact capabilities are quantitatively reduced to eight - the YJ-62 anti-ship missiles, possessing, however, better qualities - longer flight range and power of the warhead than the YJ-82.

The series also includes two ships: "Lanzhou", the tactical number 170, was put into operation in 2004; and "Haikou", 171, 2005


В stories the creation of these ships has a hefty portion of borrowed technology. When the Chinese experts attended to the creation of air defense ships, there was a quite reasonable idea to do something like "Aegis, made in China". Accordingly, information was required on radars with PAR. According to available information, was originally purchased by those. documentation on the Mars-Passat system, after studying it was recognized that it is hardly possible to adapt it to the project under development. At the same time, the process of copying information on American developments was going on (this was partially revealed at the beginning of the 2000s, followed by a trial, known in the media as teagate); Apparently, the Chinese experts could not figure it out on their own; they had to involve scientists from the Kvant association. In the end, apparently, the system was able to bring to mind. The resulting product, called the 348 radar, provides detection (apparently of air targets) at a distance of 450 km.

It is interesting to look in comparison with other "Aegis":



A separate line in the composition of the Chinese fleet are destroyers of Russian construction pr. xnumx ("Yangzhou" 136 and "Fu Zhou" 137; went into service in 2000 and 2001) and so forth. 956 EM ("Taizhou" 138 and "Ningbo" in 139; went into operation in 2005 and 2006).


The first two engines do not differ in any way from those of the type “Modern” of the Russian fleet; on two ships of the 956 EM project, the aft 130-mm AU was dismantled. But due to this, the anti-aircraft potential was significantly increased by replacing four AK-630M assault rifles with the same number of combat modules of the Kashtan Chelyabinsk


Destroyers straight 956E (Fig above.) And 956EM - general and particular: 1-2h1 130-mm UE "AK-130»: 2 - 1h1 - PU SAM "Calm» (24 SAM). 3 - 2х4 CRP "3М-80E"; 4 - AP Mineral-E radar; 5 - AP Frigate ME radar; 6 - 30-mm AU "AK-630"; 7 - Kashtan MZRAK



At the moment, "956-e" form a "Russian line" of the destroyers of the Chinese fleet, a uniform impact connection which, having powerful impact (32 RCC) and anti-aircraft (192 SUR) potentials, is able to operate in the ocean zone



Below is a quote from an article from the Atrina website:

... The destroyers of the 956-E project built for the People's Republic of China at the Severnaya Verf proved well in the Chinese Navy, so the Chinese leadership decided to continue the series. But the next two ships were decided to build on the modified project 956-EM, which was developed in the Northern PKB under the leadership of the chief designer V.P. Mishina Work on 956-EM Ave. (export, upgraded) was started in 2001 year. It was immediately assumed that the ship would be significantly different from its predecessors. It was planned to modernize weapons systems, navigation, radar equipment, control equipment of the main power plant. Work on the project was largely stimulated by the successful implementation of the contract from 1997 for the supply of the Chinese Navy to two destroyers of the 956-E project.

After negotiations at the beginning of 2002, the FSUE “Rosoboronexport” concluded a contract with the Ministry of Defense of the People’s Republic of China. The total amount of the foreign economic contract was, according to various estimates, from 1 to 1,4 billion dollars. It was expected that the ships would be handed over to the customer in the middle of 2006.


"Eternal" at the outbuilding wall of the Northern Shipyards in St. Petersburg May 2006

The then Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation I.I. Immediately after signing the contract, Klebanov officially stated that the production of the destroyer is a serious matter, and a tender will be announced for it. But, as it turned out, the Shipbuilding Agency was not ready to announce a tender for such a large project. Finally, a tender for the placement of an order from the People's Republic of China was announced, and very quickly the projects of the Baltic Shipyard, the Shipbuilding Plant Severnaya Verf OJSC and the Yantar enterprise in Kaliningrad were presented. Already 19 January 2002, at a meeting of the government commission made a choice in favor of the Baltic plant. This was due to the fact that the plant offered the most favorable conditions. The cost of building destroyers was lower than that of other bidders. But this was not the end. In March, the tender results were revised, and by the government’s decision the order for the construction of ships of the 956-EM Avenue was transferred to Severnaya Verf, and only the supply of components and nodes was assigned to the Baltic Shipyard. Baltiysky Zavod really is a manufacturer of pipelines, propeller shafts and propellers for destroyers Ave. NUMX-EM and supplied these nodes for the previous Chinese contract (Ave. 956-E), which was performed by Severnaya Verf. As part of the Chinese contract, the Baltic Shipyard manufactured almost the entire energy system for these ships, including auxiliary installations, as well as outboard reinforcement. In August, 956 shipbuilding company Baltiysky Zavod supplied Severnaya Verf with boilers for two new destroyers, 2003-EM Ave.


Before handing over to China 28 September 2006 of the year


Destroyers of the 956-EM project are reported to be different from the first delivery ships with range missile attack and more advanced air defense. The new modernized Moskit-ME SCRK installed on ships has a firing range of up to 200 km (the base modification had a range of 120 km). The air defense has been reinforced by installing two combat modules of the Kashtan anti-aircraft missile and artillery complex (an export version of the Kortik MRA) at four AK-30М four 630-mm artillery systems. Each of the combat modules has two six-barrel 30-mm assault rifles, two launchers with four missiles each, and guidance and control stations. To detect airborne targets and target designation of the SIDENT on the roof of the aft superstructure, there is a radar 3Р86Э1 (an export version of the station “Positive”) in a radio transparent radome.

As you know, a big drawback of the ships of the 956 Ave. and the 956-E Ave was the absence of a permanently-based helicopter - there was only a telescopic sliding hangar. On new ships, this deficiency was eliminated due to the abandonment of the aft X-NUMX-mm AK-130 artillery system (only one remained - on the bow), in place of which the Shtiel launcher was “shifted”, and in the aft superstructure under the main-mast was a full-fledged helicopter hangar is placed for the permanent deployment of the helicopter and the deployment of its ammunition. The total length of the ship and the displacement increased slightly. At the same time, the antisubmarine armament of the EM did not change.

Destroyer destroyers pr. 956-EM were laid in June and November 2002 at the shipyard "Severnaya Verf" in St. Petersburg. In December 2005, the head destroyer with a tail number 693 was adopted by the commission and transferred to the PRC Navy, where it was named "Taizhou" (w / o 138). The second ship was solemnly launched on July 23 2004 and towed to the outbuilding embankment, where it almost immediately began its completion afloat.




Some nuances of weapons of Chinese EM

The impact capabilities of the Chinese ships are quite good: supersonic Mosquito missiles with a flight speed of approx. 3 M and the ability to maneuver when overloading over 10 g is a very difficult goal, even for ships equipped with the Aegis system with SM-3 missiles (after all, this complex has been sharpened to a greater degree to intercept the BM); The possibility of interception using the "Sea Sparrow" is very, very doubtful. In addition, there is an advanced version of the CJ YJ-82 (C-802) - YJ-83, which has a supersonic stage (speed 1,5 M in the final stage).

[/ Img]


In addition, there are PKR YJ-62. The rocket was developed by the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (Third Aerospace Academy). It entered service with the Chinese Navy in 2004. Experts believe that the technology and components of the Tomahawk rocket obtained from Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as Soviet X-62 missiles purchased through Ukraine, were used in the development of the YJ-55.


TTH:
Firing range: 40 — 400 km (280 for C-602, export version).
Flight speed: 0,6-0,9 M.
Flight altitude: 7-10 m.
Flight altitude: 30 m.
Dimensions, m:
- length (without starting accelerator) 6,1;
- length (with accelerator) 7,0;
- diameter 0,54;
- Wingspan 2,9.
Starting weight: 1350 kg.
Starting accelerator weight: 210 kg.
Warhead weight: 300 kg.

The air defense system is represented by a long-range air defense missile system (RIF-M; HQ-9), mid-range “Shtil-1” complexes and Chinese counterparts of the Naval Krotal air defense system (HQ-7) of a short-range radius. The most modern means of defense of self-defense are the SAMBER "Kashtan" and ZAK AK-630 and type 730 (information about him was in a post about Chinese AV).



However, there is the following question: why should the Chinese, who commissioned ships of the 52 C with long-range air defense systems and radars with PAR (and probably with the appropriate ASBU), adopt ships equipped with the RIF-M imported from Russia? ?




Summarizing, it can be said that the Chinese destroyer destroyers are currently small-scale ships that are models for developing technical solutions and tactics for future use in creating the "large fleet" (so-called "fleet of samples"). Nevertheless, even now, if Chinese aircraft carriers are commissioned, they are fully capable of providing AUG in terms of impact capabilities, as well as air defense and anti-aircraft defense.

The possible directions for the development of this class of ships in China can now be aimed at modernizing the existing 052 Ave EMs in the fleet (according to the NATO classification - Luhu-class).


1 - 1х1 100-mm AU "Creusot-Loire T100C" (or its Chinese "analog"); 2 - 2x16 TLU ZRK (possible to use ZRK HQ-16); 3 - MZAK "type 730"; 4 - AP Mineral-E radar; 5 - AP radar "Fregat-ME"; 6 - early warning radar "type 517"; 7 - 2X4 PU PUK “YJ-62” (you can use the CRM JY-83, 2 or 4Х4 PU), 8 - 2X18 PU LTs. (this modernization is speculatively considered in the book of Y.V. Vedernikov "Modern destroyers of the Chinese fleet: evolution and combat potential").

The option is quite good, especially since the strike potential of the EM data does not correspond to the majority of regional fleets of similar class in the fleet (the Japanese or South Korean naval forces), and the air defense capabilities are very, very modest. And this is despite the fact that the ships are not yet old (they were commissioned in the middle of the 90).

A more realistic option seems to be the construction of an improved version of the EM of the 052V avenue with the replacement of the Shtil-1 air defense system with beamed launchers on the HQ-16 air defense system with a TLU. This air defense system is installed on a regular basis on the Chinese frigates of the dispensary of the 054A, so the construction of such ships is quite realistic (this version of the EM is also speculatively considered in the book of Vedernikov).


And, finally, the top of Chinese shipbuilding, the newest Chinese "Aegis" - EM URO type 052D.

This ship deserves more detailed and detailed attention.
All that is known about him, but little is known so far, read HERE .

And in conclusion - a comparative image of the evolution of Chinese destroyers from "a" to "z":



On the materials of the sites:
http://alternathistory.org.ua/pogovorim-o-kitaiskikh-esmintsakh
http://gruzdov.livejournal.com/62193.html
http://doktorkurgan.livejournal.com/12604.html
http://www.navy.ru/publications/books/shelf/vedernikov/chinadestroyers/1.htm
http://flot.com/publications/books/shelf/vedernikov/chinadestroyers/1.htm
http://www.militaryparitet.com/nomen/china/navy/data/ic_nomenchinanavy/23/
http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/navy/ddg-052c-thread-2358.html
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  1. Gans1234
    21 November 2014 08: 29
    +10
    Whatever you say, the "flock" of 968x looks gorgeous, if not even impressive
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 21 November 2014 09: 21
      +11
      Quote: Gans1234
      Whatever you say, the "flock" of 968x looks gorgeous, if not even impressive

      Of course, you can’t argue with that! The experience of operating destroyers of the 956 Ave. in China shows that with proper care, the power plant on them is quite viable. It is a pity that most of us have already killed them.
      The review shows the evolution of Chinese destroyers very meaningfully, the publication is bold "+".
    2. Nayhas
      Nayhas 21 November 2014 13: 19
      +1
      Quote: Gans1234
      Whatever you say, the "flock" of 968x looks gorgeous, if not even impressive

      As I understand it, you mixed up 9687 with pr.956? If so, yes, smoke is not childish, can be seen from afar ... can only be identified by smoke ...
      1. Gans1234
        21 November 2014 21: 22
        +3
        Ahh, they survived, Sarycham wrote the wrong index)))
        I apologize, wrote in the morning awake))
    3. Civil
      Civil 22 November 2014 01: 57
      0
      dragon grew to mass ships
    4. Gans1234
      22 November 2014 07: 03
      +1
      And it is worth noting that this is an 2011 article of the year!
      The progress made since then with the Chinese destroyers is even more impressive.
  2. Serbor
    Serbor 21 November 2014 08: 52
    +11
    A very good overview, for a long time there were none. These are the articles that are needed for VO. And then you often reread the news feed from Ukraine. ("Better less, but better" V. I. Lenin)
  3. gregor6549
    gregor6549 21 November 2014 09: 21
    +3
    I liked the technical solution of using the Rif air defense system on one of the destroyers. The Chinese, without further ado, attached a land-based sector-view radar to the superstructure, surrounding it with vertical missile launchers. It turned out quite cheap and cheerful. The fact that all this did not allow a helicopter to be placed on the destroyer only indicates that this destroyer will mainly perform air defense missions. Moreover, to perform at a high level. And the PLO tasks will be solved by other ships. It's a perfectly normal approach. Otherwise, in the pursuit of versatility, you may not be able to solve any of the tasks effectively.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 21 November 2014 13: 25
      +4
      Quote: gregor6549
      The Chinese, without further ado, added a land-based sector-based radar to the superstructure, surrounding it with vertical launcher launchers.

      They didn’t do this, but ours. A similar radar can be seen on Petra and Varyag ...
      1. gregor6549
        gregor6549 21 November 2014 16: 02
        0
        On the ships you named is Fort, not its export version Reef. Accordingly, the configuration of the systems on TAKRs is seriously different from the one used by the Chinese, including in appearance. Naturally, the Chinese could not do without the help of Russian consultants and designers. And to enter such a system into the destroyer is somewhat more difficult than in the TAKR.
    2. carbofo
      carbofo 21 November 2014 13: 40
      +2
      A ship, even having specialization, should have opportunities in other areas.
      Even having an air defense ship with a long-range air defense system, it is impossible to completely rid the ship of anti-aircraft capabilities. Moreover, I have not seen a single ship without a TA, and in the current realities it is more anti-submarine weapons and not anti-ship weapons.
      1. gregor6549
        gregor6549 22 November 2014 13: 34
        +1
        And no one did not relieve these destroyers of missile defense tasks. There are torpedo tubes on them, sonar and submarine bombers or their equivalents too, which compensates to some extent the absence of helicopters on some destroyers.
        In addition, as far as I remember, helicopters in Soviet times were not the most effective "fighters" with submarines.
        Specialized PLO airplanes worked much more efficiently on submarines (in the USSR, TUShki and Ilya, the USA had Vikings and Orions.
        And yet, for countries where the ASG is just beginning to create the task of covering the fleet from aviation, the enemy’s ASG is even more urgent than the PLO task, especially in areas of the oceans where such a cover by coastal forces is impossible. And for the Chinese, hiking in such areas (for example, closer to Africa) is a task for the near future. Not for nothing that they began to actively probe the creation of technical support bases for their Navy in those areas
        1. carbofo
          carbofo 24 November 2014 17: 15
          0
          Quote: gregor6549

          In addition, as far as I remember, helicopters in Soviet times were not the most effective "fighters" with submarines.


          Don’t tell me, the effect is so-so of course, but there are no other alternatives to maintain contact with the submarines outside the ship’s GAS range.


          Specialized PLO airplanes worked much more efficiently on submarines (in the USSR, TUShki and Ilya, the USA had Vikings and Orions.


          Well, yes, the carrying capacity is frantic, they could hang for half a day, a real hound, of course it is difficult for a helicopter to compete.
  4. MrFYGY
    MrFYGY 21 November 2014 09: 26
    +4
    We would have ships launched at the same speed.
    1. gregor6549
      gregor6549 21 November 2014 09: 41
      +3
      And they would have let them down if they had not bought the Mistral from a probable enemy and entered Chinese reporting against the wall for disrupting government orders and cuts. Of course, the load on the wall at first would be enormous, but soon everything would do without it
      1. patsantre
        patsantre 21 November 2014 12: 38
        +2
        And what does the Mistral have to do with it? Our shipyards are already overloaded, the problem is in capacity and manpower.
        1. gregor6549
          gregor6549 21 November 2014 15: 23
          +4
          The most direct. And there is no problem with capacity. And with the labor force too. And if this force was paid at French rates or at least 50% of these rates, then the competition would have been 10 or more people. for one workplace as it once was at "Zvezdochka" in Severodvinsk.
          I can add that I had to somehow be at this plant and I myself saw bales of applications for employment from all over the Union in the table of one of the plant managers, and in the evening in a cafe I saw hard workers drinking coffee and eating pastries, tk. the plant had a "dry" law and flew out from there convicted of drunkenness, like a bullet, since there were always enough candidates to replace the drunk.
          And they paid well, and the work was interesting, and housing conditions are not the worst. Those. when needed are all who are needed and all that is needed. And power and slave. power, both physical and intellectual.
          But the main thing is not even that. The main thing is that the Russian Fleet does not need the Mistrals for nothing. Moreover, Russian helicopters do not fit into its elevators, and the rest of the equipment has a lot of restrictions, and the cruising range is two times less than the same Spanish ships, and the weapons are frail and there is nothing to cover them with. and the dependence is obvious on a potential adversary for spare parts and other replacement materials for which there is not yet in Russia and it is not known whether such a replacement will appear. In addition, while this Mistral unloads everything that it has on board, hours will pass and all this time this Mistral will sit motionless on the water, like a decoy duck. It would be much more useful to build a couple of dozen small and large amphibious ships capable of unloading troops and equipment directly to the coast or in shallow water and already mastered by production. As a last resort, you can place orders for them in other countries, such as China. And the competent and honest sailors have been talking about this aloud for a long time. Another thing is that very few people listen to them at the top, and quite different land "sailors" whose name is Stouretkin made decisions about the purchase of Mistrals.
          Although stools can be understood. Nothing personal just business. And how much they have welded on the Mistrals, only God knows. Yes, and he is unlikely
          1. Gans1234
            21 November 2014 21: 36
            +2
            Regarding placing orders in other countries - I agree - in China or South Korea, let the bodies rivet.
            Regarding the first paragraph about workers, even more.
            As for the rest, just a couple of points.
            The entire project has been revised to our requirements. He is taller. The lifts and the height of the hangar are changed for our helicopters.
            This ship sits at 40km offshore in guarding the RVO order - the fact that it is absent from the fleet purely from the lack of ships is another matter, they just need to be built.
            And the BDKs come to the shore itself, which is much more dangerous in terms of security - in combat conditions this makes it almost one-time - right at the shore the warrant ships will not trample just over the BDK.
            What did not order in Spain - FIGs know, the ship is buzzing, but it was also a policy from the Franks to take.
            Armament - according to the Soviet concept, any ship must be hung weapons from a to z
            As for the smaller ones. Ivan Gren build 10 years. The next promise for 5-7 to be in time.
            And he holds a company. And the technique in the hold is weaker in capabilities. Those. compensation of the possibilities of 1go Mistral needs 5 Gren. In 30 years we will build them - nishtyak, especially to take into account.
  5. fedor13
    fedor13 21 November 2014 09: 45
    +2
    Yes, it’s not evolution, but a real revolution in Chinese shipbuilding. To take 90 quality was not so much to say the least.
  6. donavi49
    donavi49 21 November 2014 09: 49
    +6
    The only thing about 052С is some outdated information they are already a pack 5 in the PLA and 1 in the PLA like until the end of the year.

    Here is 4х052С in the database, on the plan there is also 956 and a couple of frigates 054А:

    Well, about D - they are simply being built at an incredible pace by 6 ships already photographed.
    Head 172 adopted and 3 serial in completion:

    5-6 destroyers:


    The second most recent photo.
    1. Gans1234
      21 November 2014 10: 12
      +5
      Yes, infa on new ships is a bit old.
      On the 2 photo - is the shipyard so with them?
      Destroyers rivet like pies. Oh, we would.
  7. Gans1234
    21 November 2014 09: 50
    +3
    By the way, their coastal infrastructure is on top.
    And the white color is Sarycham
    1. gregor6549
      gregor6549 21 November 2014 10: 11
      +5
      Not only coastal, they and the main roads are already some of the best in the world. And the Chinese are achieving this quite simply. They force a private trader to take a road or a part of it for a long-term lease, make it paid and the private trader is already interested in the road to have the maximum throughput and as much transport as possible. T.O. the state kills many birds with one stone. It gets excellent road infrastructure (which is quite useful in case of war). He receives a rent and a percentage of payments for the use of the road, receives jobs without spending a dime on them and produces steam that is fraught with unemployment, etc. The same policy not only with respect to roads but also to many other sectors of the economy, including Defense industry
    2. Nayhas
      Nayhas 21 November 2014 13: 31
      +3
      Quote: Gans1234
      By the way, their coastal infrastructure is on top.

      Duc understand that without proper maintenance will have to cut all this beauty in ten years ...
  8. mike_z
    mike_z 21 November 2014 10: 34
    +13
    What I want to say, as an officer of the BCH-5 of the first EM pr 956 ... You need to be friends with the Chinese. Such evolution of ships of the EM class cannot but make you think deeply about our shipbuilding. We took care of our destroyers as best we could, but ... there was no way to feed the boilers with the water they required, there was clearly not enough P4-2 desalters, ion exchange filters are so "delicate" that the slightest excess of salinity in the circuit would disable them. And the coastal services were not prepared and are not ready now - they are preparing water for Project 1134-A, which have not been there for a long time ... But 32 (!!) years have passed since our arrival at the Northern Fleet (August 1982). Almost all EM of pr.956 "got up" because of the boilers. Preparing l / s meant a lot too. Conscript sailors ..., and then an illiterate epic with contract soldiers began, although by this time almost everything was "standing". It is impossible not to say about the uniform betrayal of the then Chief Commander of the Navy FN Gromov, he made decisions to write off the EM "Winged", "Impeccable" before my eyes, practically without thinking that the ships were only 9 and 10 years old! The first ones (my "Modern", "Desperate", "Excellent"), apparently were destroyed in the same way. So much for the evolution of our destroyers. Total - in the Northern Fleet in the ranks, and then conditionally - one "Fearless" ("Adm.Ushakov"), in the Baltic too, in my opinion one remained in the Pacific Fleet ... The guys there will say better. And China knows what it is doing. The discipline is mad! There are 7 applicants for one sailor's place! Accordingly, exploitation. In general, you shouldn't quarrel with China.
    1. sub307
      sub307 21 November 2014 12: 43
      +4
      "I understand a lot," as he is also an officer of the BCH-5, only a submariner. In general, the situation is "painfully" familiar .... And about the Chinese Navy, I completely agree, you got ahead of me.
      1. mike_z
        mike_z 21 November 2014 14: 04
        0
        That's it, that we understand each other. But when will we finally begin to listen and understand those who should plan the construction of ships?
    2. The comment was deleted.
  9. Aasdem
    Aasdem 21 November 2014 11: 50
    +1
    good ships from the Chinese ... more precisely, a ready-made powerful regional fleet
    1. Gans1234
      21 November 2014 12: 53
      +2
      They rivet regional, and by 20 -25 they will have a full-fledged ocean
  10. ivanovich
    ivanovich 21 November 2014 13: 16
    0
    solid review with photos, the author, let's still have the same articles on the entire range of weapons of the Chinese
  11. carbofo
    carbofo 21 November 2014 13: 30
    0
    Auto RU -
    EM Ave. 052 placement of weapons by numbers does not match, torpedoes on the antenna tower is cool :)
    The second picture is above.
    1. gregor6549
      gregor6549 21 November 2014 18: 04
      0
      this is where you saw this? maybe confused with self-expanding emergency rafts, which by the way are made according to NATO standards or maybe they’ve bought them
      1. carbofo
        carbofo 24 November 2014 17: 09
        0
        Number Five (5) Torpedo tubes - on the diagram, the number was on the radio mast, it is not fatal, it just interferes with perception.
        I don’t really care where what is located, because as a rule you can not see the ship and be 90% sure that there are AUs, torpedoes here, radar here, etc. Interest in the deployment of weapons rather technical.
        Modern ships of the same class are very similar in the placement of weapons. Excluding ships of conceptual projects such as "Zamvolt".
    2. Gans1234
      21 November 2014 21: 37
      0
      Yes, ATP, I will correct it - I mixed up the photo
  12. Nayhas
    Nayhas 21 November 2014 14: 07
    +4
    Here it is necessary to add the following:
    In 2013, 41,4% of all ships built in the world were manufactured in China. At the same time, 47,9% of the global volume of new orders for the construction of ships was placed in China. In 2013, vessels with a total tonnage of 45,34 million tons were released in China. Analysts predict that in 2014 vessels with a total tonnage of about 40 million tons will be released to China. Analysts also expect that in 2014, Chinese shipbuilders will receive orders for ships with a total tonnage of approximately 120 million tons.

    Is it worth it to be surprised after this at the scale of China’s shipbuilding ... with such capacities ... When domestic dreamers stutter about building an ocean fleet, for some reason they forget about the state of shipbuilding in Russia ...
  13. alexey12345
    alexey12345 21 November 2014 14: 32
    0
    China is sweeping the first place in the world. He needs a strong fleet.
  14. Odysseus
    Odysseus 21 November 2014 16: 03
    +6
    Great article. Thanks to the author. A small addition-952 in 2011 was modernized so that the composition of weapons and equipment has changed somewhat. 952С already 5 pieces (the sixth is accepted), accordingly it is already difficult to call it "a fleet of samples".
    The total number of destroyers in the PLA Navy is 25 ships (including 7 old Lyud). Old will be replaced by 052 D in a 1 to 1 ratio.
    According to our 956, I agree with the comrades in the comments that the experience of their operation in the Navy of the PRC shows that, with due regard, the problem with boilers can be solved.
  15. xomaNN
    xomaNN 21 November 2014 23: 05
    +4
    Well done author! By the example of these EMs, it can be seen that in skillful and correct hands and EM 956 projects work well. The question is to our naval, how do they explain it. Our EM pr.956 from a large series of Soviet-unit on the go. belay
    Summary "The student (PRC) surpassed the Teacher (the rest of the Atlantean shipbuilding countries)" hi