Military Review

China introduced the wheeled tank for export shipments

73
Now, Chinese Zhuhai receives guests of the Airshow China 2014 aircraft salon, and a few days ago, China demonstrated its new armored vehicles at the exhibition grounds of this city. Among other exhibits was shown a new development of the corporation NORINCO - wheeled tank ST-1. This machine, created on the basis of existing developments, was first introduced in early September of this year and is intended for export deliveries.

The new wheeled tank is another combat vehicle based on the chassis of the wheeled armored personnel carrier ZBL-09. The chassis after a relatively small refinement is equipped with a tower with a tool and a set of special equipment. It should be noted that the externally wheeled tank ST-1 resembles the well-known ZTL-09 armored vehicle of a similar class for quite some time. However, a detailed examination of the two cars shows that in the case of the new ST-1, the base chassis has undergone much smaller changes than the ZTL-09 chassis. In this case, the wheeled tank ZTL-09 is supplied only to the Chinese armed forces, and the ST-1 was originally developed as an export vehicle.

The ST-1 wheeled tank has an armored hull, with a minimum of changes borrowed from the ZBL-09 base armored personnel carrier. The body is assembled from relatively large rectilinear sheets of armor, mated at different angles, which gives the car a characteristic angular shape characteristic of modern Chinese and foreign armored vehicles. The main hull lines in the processing of the chassis for use on the new car remained the same. The ST-1 wheeled tank has an upper frontal part located at a large angle to the vertical, as well as a narrow middle and inclined lower part. The sides of the machine are assembled from several plates of different sizes.

The layout of the internal volume of the case remains the same. In front of the hull at the right side is the engine and part of the transmission units. To the left of the engine compartment is the control compartment with the workplace of the driver. The dimensions of the tower did not allow to save the place of the commander of the car with the hatch in the roof of the hull. For this reason, immediately behind the engine and driver is a fighting compartment with a tower. In the stern of the hull there is a volume used to accommodate various objects. In the stern sheet there is a door for landing in the car and loading ammunition.








On the right side of the car there are two lattices that complement the recognizable appearance of the car. One of them is located in the middle of the board next to the engine compartment and covers the muffler. The second grill is located in the stern and fans are visible under it. The latter, apparently, are used by the ventilation system to remove powder gases from the crew compartment and create acceptable conditions inside the hull.

The type of power plant is unfortunately unknown. According to reports, the base armored personnel carrier ZBL-09 is equipped with a German-made Deutz BF6M1015C diesel engine with a capacity of 440 hp. Some sources claim that a similar engine is installed on wheeled Tanks ZTL-09, providing them with relatively high performance. Thus, the ST-1 export wheeled tank can also have a 440-horsepower German diesel.

The car received a chassis with a wheel formula 8х8. The wheels have independent lever suspension with hydraulic or hydro-pneumatic shock absorbers. The shock absorbers of the two rear pairs of wheels are angled, which makes it possible to more effectively extinguish the recoil energy of the gun. An important difference between the ST-1 wheeled tank and the base ZBL-09 armored personnel carrier is the lack of jet propulsion. In the stern of the armored personnel carrier there were two water cannons. They were stored on the ZTL-09 wheeled tank, but not on the ST-1. Probably, the export wheeled tank has a relatively large combat mass and therefore cannot cross water obstacles.

On the pursuit of a larger diameter, a tower of characteristic complex shape formed by several armor plates was installed. The frontal part of the tower has a form peculiar to modern tanks. On the tower of the wheeled tank ST-1 installed all the existing weapons.

Home weapon New Chinese armored vehicles - rifled gun caliber 105 mm. The gun is equipped with an ejector and a muzzle brake. Apparently, it is equipped with a two-plane stabilizer. The shape of the tower may indicate that the ammunition (or part thereof) is loaded into the stowage located in the aft niche. Probably, the ST-1 does not have an automatic loader, which is why the preparation of the gun for the shot is the responsibility of one of the crew members.

The auxiliary weapon of a wheeled tank consists of a machine gun of 7,62 caliber mm, coaxial with a cannon, a large-caliber anti-aircraft machine gun and a set of smoke grenade launchers. Anti-aircraft machine gun located on the roof of the tower in front of the loader loader. Smoke grenade launchers mounted on the sides of the tower, four on each side.

The driver, gunner and commander have a set of optical instruments for observing the battlefield. The gunner has a periscope sight, with a night channel and a laser rangefinder, to search for targets and aim the gun. On the commander's hatch, located on the roof of the tower at the left side, there is a certain observation device, the type and class of which is unknown. Perhaps the new wheeled tank is equipped with a panoramic commander sight.

The exact characteristics of the new Chinese wheeled tank have not yet been published. The export nature of the development suggests that such information will be made available to the public in the very near future. In the meantime, you can build assumptions about the characteristics and capabilities of the new ST-1 machine. Probably, in terms of its capabilities, the ST-1 wheeled tank is somewhat similar to the older ZTL-09, some of the details of which are already known.

Like many other Chinese developments, the ST-1 wheeled tank is intended for deliveries to small countries in Asia, Africa and South America. For example, this machine may be of interest to the Venezuelan armed forces, which in the year 2012 acquired several dozen export-equipped ZBL-09 armored personnel carriers. The wheeled tank originally offered for deliveries to foreign countries may be of interest to a country that is already using an armored personnel carrier, which has become the basis for it.

Information on future contracts for the supply of the ST-1 wheeled tank is not yet available. However, it should be borne in mind that the first information about it was published only in September of this year and potential customers have not yet had time to begin negotiations, and even less to sign contracts for the supply of equipment. Who exactly will be interested in ST-1 and order these machines - time will tell.


On the materials of the sites:
http://militaryparitet.com/
http://military-today.com/
http://alternathistory.org.ua/
http://china-defense.blogspot.ru/
Author:
73 comments
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  1. Baikal
    Baikal 13 November 2014 08: 36
    +4
    Proceeding from Tupolevsky, "an ugly plane won't fly" - it shouldn't go laughing
    1. i80186
      i80186 13 November 2014 09: 26
      0
      This is a clone of this.

      MCV (maneuverable combat vehicle, Japan)
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 13 November 2014 12: 49
        +5
        Quote: i80186
        This is a clone of this.

        what can I say, GOOD CHINESE !!! New BM, released annually ....

        more like a BBM- "VBCI Nexter", and the tower is already its own development ...
        клик
        1. kplayer
          kplayer 14 November 2014 00: 24
          +3
          The nose, and here the wheel arches open in front, are they really similar to the body of the too obvious Chinese "chisel"?
          - A prototype promising BRM EBRC Scorpion based on VBCI BMP, France:



          - A direct and immediate competitor, in addition to the usual variations of the MOWAG Piranha (8x8) with 105 mm French and Belgian (Cockerill) towers and guns - a prototype based on BTR / BMP CM-32 Yunpao (Clouded Leopard), Taiwan:
        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Messiah
      Messiah 13 November 2014 18: 42
      +3
      That's for sure, here "Octopus" is a handsome man, and as it should be for our conditions, on "harp", and wheeled PTs, stupidity, although if in Central Asia to fight partisans on camels, then yes. But Russia is not going to fight there, although who knows? can you have plans? Is it time to take up their heads and decide what to do: "Wunderwafli" in the form of wheeled vehicles and "Terminators"? What are they for? If you need a tank for the city, then it needs a dump, a large tower with "Bakhchi" or better with "New Bakhchi", in the form of a pair of 120 mm \ 40-45 mm (Nona \ Vienna). Cannons 30 \ 165 mm are not enough! You need an elevation angle of up to 75-85%, plus a course machine gun, on the 12,7 mm turret (.338, .400-416) - a remotely controlled machine gun and a 40-45 mm grenade launcher in the rear overhang of the turret, plus powerful protection, especially the roof and the rear. Why? Because the city needs a mortar and a powerful land mine, the ability to shoot point-blank upward and "through walls", plus, sometimes 10-50 meters, it is safe for your infantry! For one, from 40-45 mm cannon on BMP / armored personnel carriers and helicopters, and 120 mm ("Kitolov-2?", "Reflex?", "Kombat?") With a rocket through the barrel, - on helicopters / tanks. And in the "field", such a "unit" cooler than the "Terminators" will be! Or it is possible in "Bakhche-New-Bakhche", instead of 100 mm, to put a 76,2 mm barrel, based on a 57 mm (C-60) machine gun, plus a twin 14,5-30 \ 40-45 mm gun and in a "garnish ", - machine guns 7,62 \ 12,7mm and 40-45mm grenade launcher, with retractable ATGM and MANPADS from the turret, - we will get BMPT / ZSU of the front edge - a hunter for ATGM and helicopters! With a "working" range of up to 10 km! Like ZSU from "Abrams" and Italian "Otomatic"! And everything is already there! For 57 and 76 mm projectiles, the sleeve and dimensions are the same, but the 76 mm high-explosive projectile is more than 2 times (2,8 and 6-7 kg!) More powerful, and with the same 90-150 shells! Pick up the muzzle brake and that's it! A radio fuse with a 76,2 mm projectile, an ejector and a BOPS is also not a problem, for how the "density of work" along the enemy's front edge will increase! Fast and effective destruction of any targets (except for MBT in the forehead)! By the way, 76 mm - Zis-3 - is the best gun of the 2nd MV, with a range of more than 13 kilometers! And how many more shells are left in the warehouses
      1. Messiah
        Messiah 13 November 2014 18: 50
        +4
        .... "Tunguska" and "Pantsyr" are good, but wherever they are on the battlefield - they will instantly turn them into a sieve! But tanks \ BMP \ BTR need to be protected, especially from the calculations of anti-tank systems and helicopters. In addition, the T-64 \ 72 \ 80 \ 90 as a platform will still serve both there and there! Well this is some kind of saving, we don’t measure them! Further, is it not time to remember that the tank is also a tractor! So why do not make an armored trailer to the tank (BMP \ BTR \ SAU), with a manual loading arrow, a small (1-2l) ICE with a generator. Maybe from the cases T54 \ 55 \ 62, redoing the roof and sawing off the MTO? A kind of armored suitcase, where it is possible to load 1-2 full ammunition, fuel for 500-1000 km, where, if necessary, unloading the ammunition, you can equip 3-4 bedridden, "sleeping" places. All this on the frame, with one steered wheelset and two or three pairs of tank rollers, where you can even pull a couple of pieces of a spare track, which will be a plus for cross-country ability and as a repair reserve, just in case, the suspension is on standard or lightweight torsion bars. Inside, install an internal communication device with the crew and the ability to connect a field telephone. Such a "summer residence", where the tank crew (BAT \ IMR \ SAU?) Can even sleep in a "bad weather", will increase autonomy and combat readiness in two! And if you make loopholes in a circle, then you can even carry the landing squad, and install screens that fold back and close the trailer on the tank. Moreover, it is not yet known what is safer for an assault to go into battle behind the back of an armored monster or under the protection of “conditional” armor BTR70 \ 80 \ BMP-1 \ 2 \ 3! Changing the tactics and rules of conducting and organizing a battle? Почему нет? Today our BTR \ BMP is an easy target! Maybe in general the current armored personnel carriers / infantry fighting vehicles can sometimes be left in the trenches or "green", even if they are supported by ATGMs and guns from the spot, while the ATGMs / RPGs and "large barrels", tanks and infantry traveling in the "trailer" are not cleaned up? After all, there are no heavy infantry fighting vehicles to advance with tanks! And when will these BMP be enough in the troops? In how many years? And what is it worth adjusting the hitch, a couple of hinged screens on the back of the tank, and "carry armored storage"? Do not like it - instead, weld and implement an armored box in the form of a "coffin" with doors and put it on a frame with a rotary pair! The task is within the power of the Papuans! And if you make the "coffin" removable, it will turn into an "armored craft"! And there, in the future, you will see fifty or more universal vertical-launch missiles ATGM / MANPADS, it will be possible to "carry" and "bullet" it into the "adversaries"! And once they remembered about the landing and infantry, the question is - where is the 40-45 mm gun for the Kurgan? Again -30 mm - ka? And her, given the growth of protection BMP \ BTR potential enemy, is no longer enough! And the ATGMs located on its tower - practically without armor protection? One line or a couple of small fragments and everything will fail! We are not in the desert, where the "adversary", see for 3,5-5 km! We have "gully-river-crayfish", "greenback!" So, getting in the BMP \ BTR silhouette from 300-500 m a pair of sighting bursts of 7,62 \ 5,6 \ 5,45mm is not a question! And if "explode?" What will happen to the “people” inside? And there "overhead" because under 20 kg on each side! And the roof is only 12, well, 25 mm! ..... Is it hard to make the turret module larger and to mount the ATGM / SAM systems, as in the Belarusian 2T Stalker? Eh ... They showed the Russian-French Atom, for whom? Why does he need a gun - 57 mm, with S-60 ballistics? Bury in the bushes and wait in ambush for a tank?
    3. Russian1974
      Russian1974 13 November 2014 21: 54
      +1
      to hell with such a colossus for 6 km it will be seen !!!!!!!
  2. mirag2
    mirag2 13 November 2014 08: 48
    0
    It looks like some kind of NATO, whether Italian, or based on a "striker" ...
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 13 November 2014 10: 09
      +2
      Not simular. The Italian is much lower. Like the rest of the "wheeled tanks". Because they did not put the turret on the finished armored personnel carrier there, but developed the body separately
      1. Aleksey_K
        Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 12: 35
        +1
        Forget the concept of a wheeled tank. No matter how you call this hybrid of self-propelled guns and armored personnel carriers - this is either self-propelled guns or armored personnel carriers with a powerful gun. A tank is also a powerful anti-tank and anti-ballistic armor and increased patency.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 13 November 2014 12: 56
          +3
          It is the "wheeled tank".

          Firstly, they have a full-fledged tank control system and stable weapons. Because it is not self-propelled guns
          Secondly, they cannot transport troops. Therefore, they cannot be attributed to APCs or wheeled infantry fighting vehicles either.

          "Wheeled tanks" (heavy armored vehicles according to the CFE Treaty) are usually designed from scratch, and therefore have an original hull.
          In contrast to those created by installing heavy weapons on wheeled armored personnel carriers "fire support vehicles"
    2. cosmos111
      cosmos111 13 November 2014 12: 59
      +1
      Quote: mirag2
      -to NATO, either Italian, or based on a "striker" ...


      "Stryker", created on the basis of the Canadian armored personnel carrier "LAV III Kodia" (Pirana II) ...

      the bottom of the BBM "Pirana II" .....
      клик


      chassis, the bottom of the AFV "Stryker" ....
    3. Steel loli
      Steel loli 13 November 2014 13: 09
      +2
      The Italian is.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Orang
      Orang 13 November 2014 17: 59
      +1
      Quote: mirag2
      It looks like some kind of NATO, whether Italian, or based on a "striker" ...

      Italian Centaur. Not based on a striker.
  3. Crang
    Crang 13 November 2014 08: 51
    0
    Here is the technique. Cool. We also need wheeled tanks, based on the BTR-90 with a 125mm gun. They are very effective, as shown by the experience of wars with the Japanese and Basmachi. When our fighting vehicles of the BA-10 series smashed the enemy.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 13 November 2014 13: 00
      +3
      Quote: Krang
      We also need wheeled tanks, based on the BTR-90 with a 125mm gun.

      Shoot only in the direction of travel? Otherwise, he will lie on his side when fired.
      High BTR-90 for such pieces.


      Quote: Krang
      They are very effective, as shown by the experience of wars with the Japanese and Basmachi.

      What are effective and where effective?
      1. Crang
        Crang 13 November 2014 14: 44
        0
        Quote: Spade
        Shoot only in the direction of travel? Otherwise, he will lie on his side when fired.
        High BTR-90 for such pieces.

        Do not lie down. BTR-90 weighs more than 20 tons. And so - they tried to do similar equipment on the basis of BTR-70:

        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 13 November 2014 15: 20
          +2
          Sorry, but what is the caliber of this miracle? 85 mm?

          But the 120-mm "Nona-SVK" already had guidance restrictions. 35 degrees to the right and left of the centerline. This is despite the fact that the recoil energy of the Nyurka is clearly less than that of a 125-mm tank gun.

          BTR-90 is heavier than BTR-80. But above that. Therefore, based on the rule of leverage ...
          1. Crang
            Crang 14 November 2014 08: 31
            0
            Quote: Spade
            BTR-90 is heavier than BTR-80. But above that. Therefore, based on the rule of leverage ...

            Not only higher, but also much wider. BTR-90 3 meters wide. Like a T-34 tank.
            Quote: Spade
            Sorry, but what is the caliber of this miracle? 85 mm?

            Yes. But this is a high-ballistic tank gun.
      2. Crang
        Crang 13 November 2014 14: 46
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        What are effective and where effective?

        Almost everywhere. In addition to heavy off-road, which is not so much in Central Asia. Better than the T-26 and where even than the BT-5, anyway.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 13 November 2014 15: 26
          +1
          Almost nowhere. In addition to the steppes and mountainous terrain with a developed network of roads.
          We have no second, unfortunately. Well, we can’t afford to create a car that can be effectively used only in a small part of the territory.

          Better to install new armored personnel carriers "Kornets" with a firing range of up to 10 km. The car will be much more efficient.
  4. Epizikl
    Epizikl 13 November 2014 08: 53
    -2
    I agree!
    From the point of view of technical design - no!
    1. activator
      activator 13 November 2014 09: 04
      +5
      [quote = Epizikl] I agree!
      From the point of view of technical design - Nick
      Here I would like to know in more detail what is none and what is what and even from the point of view of those designs?
      1. PAM
        PAM 13 November 2014 11: 14
        0
        xs there from the point of view of design, but logically
        On the starboard side of the car there are two grilles ... One ... in the middle of the side next to the engine compartment and covers the muffler. The second grill is located in the stern and fans are visible underneath. The latter, apparently, are used by the ventilation system to remove powder gases from the fighting compartment and create acceptable conditions inside the hull.
        it’s probably wrong to place them side by side.
    2. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 12: 37
      0
      In war, not Armani’s design is needed, but speed, maneuver, fire and armor. Rate from these positions. And then his wheels are not from Gucci, that's for sure.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 13 November 2014 13: 08
        +1
        And what, Armani is needed to establish a normal air conditioning in mind?
        Or to guess that a high center of gravity is fraught with big problems?
        The aft sunroof is generally full Armani - not protected by anything
  5. ramsi
    ramsi 13 November 2014 09: 17
    0
    the Chinese are progressing faster than everyone else combined
    1. PAM
      PAM 13 November 2014 11: 08
      +2
      Quote: ramsi
      the Chinese are progressing faster than everyone else combined

      rather copy and rearrange one from the other yes to the third wink and it turns out it’s kind of like its own, although the technology is not always possible to steal in full measure and the clones are inferior in terms of those characteristics (but cheap)
      1. STALGRAD76
        STALGRAD76 13 November 2014 12: 51
        +1
        Are they copying? Yes of course!!
        Personally, I would not mind UAZ copying any kind of prada or, at worst, automatic gearbox .....
        Copying is not such a simple task requiring investment and engineering work and time (judging by the timing of the release of new products in China, the drawings come to them directly from the computers of the developer companies) and I don’t think much from the experience of copying to creating the original product ...
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 13 November 2014 11: 51
      +8
      I totally agree. Chinese come out
      2nd place in military power at an alarming rate.
      And they have already taken the 2nd place in terms of economic power.
      Huge foreign exchange reserves allow them to throw at
      the latest weapons amounts inaccessible to anyone -
      even the USA. And moving in all directions
      at the same time: space, missile defense, and aircraft carriers, air 5th generation,
      tanks, etc. And the quality is growing every year.
  6. Prikaz4ikov1992
    Prikaz4ikov1992 13 November 2014 09: 23
    +1
    Well, now we are waiting for our answer. The boomerang in the varinate of the fire support vehicle should appear in 15.
  7. bmv04636
    bmv04636 13 November 2014 10: 29
    +2
    And it seems to me that our concept of a light tank Sprut-SD is better than a wheeled one. The wheeled one plus is that it does not spoil the asphalt, but also install rubber tracks on the Sprut-SD and forward.
    1. Nevsky_ZU
      Nevsky_ZU 13 November 2014 10: 33
      +1
      Quote: bmv04636
      And it seems to me that our concept of a light tank Sprut-SD is better than a wheeled one. The wheeled one plus is that it does not spoil the asphalt, but also install rubber tracks on the Sprut-SD and forward.


      Octopus-SD is a tank? !! wassat And I thought self-propelled anti-tank artillery mount repeat
      1. svp67
        svp67 13 November 2014 11: 03
        +2
        Quote: Nevsky_ZU
        Octopus-SD is a tank? !!

        We also have "Bumblebee" - FIRE and somehow this is not very surprising. So, let's not wake up to the name, the main thing is to understand the field of application of these machines, and it turns out that the Octopus and this Chinese have it similar.
        1. Aleksey_K
          Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 12: 44
          +1
          Let's call a tanker a tank too. The words are almost the same, the main thing is to understand the scope of these gizmos, God knows what it is.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 13 November 2014 13: 11
              +1
              Quote: activator
              for modern means of destruction of armored vehicles half a meter of the difference will not play much

              And for "non-modern" like large-caliber machine guns, guns and ATGMs of the second generation?
          2. xren
            xren 13 November 2014 13: 29
            0
            Let's call a tanker a tank too. The words are almost the same ...


            more precisely, single-root smile
      2. bmv04636
        bmv04636 13 November 2014 11: 22
        0
        And in the picture the wheeled tank is the same as the Octopus-SD
        1. Aleksey_K
          Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 12: 45
          -1
          There are no wheeled tanks - there are only people who have no idea about this.
          1. opus
            opus 13 November 2014 20: 31
            +3
            Quote: Алексей_К
            There are no wheeled tanks - there are only people who have no idea about this.

            Yes you? Seriously.
            1. "Tank" was invented by the British, let's give them the floor
            A tank destroyer or tank hunter is a type of armored fighting vehicle armed with a gun or missile launcher, and is designed specifically to engage enemy armored vehicles. Tanks are generally armored fighting vehicles designed for front-line combat ..... Many have been based on a tracked tank chassis, while others are wheeled.
            2. What will the English say about the German word Panzer / that already a proper name as Xerox / is a German language word that means either tank (the military vehicle) or armor.
            3.We give the floor to the Germans (the most capacious decryption of all) Panzerkampfwagen - armored vehicles with drive
            Der Panzer, kurz für Panzerkampfwagen (abgekürzt PzKpfw) oder Panzerfahrzeug [Armored Vehicle], ist ein motorisiertes (motorized (, meistens auf Gleisketten rollendes (usually on tracks) und oft bewaffnetes (armed) Militärfahrzeug, das durch Panzerung gegen Beschuss geschützten).

            4. In Russian:
            Tank - armored fighting vehicle often on caterpillar tracks, as a rule, with cannon armament as the main one.
            5.Chinese, Japanese, Honduran?
            Should I continue?
            =====================
            It is interesting to which category you will classify BT-2, BT-7, etc.
      3. Aleksey_K
        Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 12: 41
        -1
        In Russia, people have become completely illiterate. There is a complete confusion of names in the heads and a lack of desire to know the truth. Soon the people will begin to call tankers tanks.
        1. Aleksey_K
          Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 13: 03
          +1
          Maybe this is also a tank? Guess what!
          1. Steel loli
            Steel loli 13 November 2014 13: 12
            0
            Mount armor and then there will be a light tank.
            1. Aleksey_K
              Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 13: 38
              0
              Doesn't the BMP-3 have armor?
          2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Crang
      Crang 13 November 2014 10: 48
      +4
      Quote: bmv04636
      The wheeled one only plus is

      Pros wheeled past this:
      - a resource (colossal in comparison with tracked vehicles)
      - high maximum speed
      - very large power reserve
      - low fuel consumption
      - high mine survivability (the ability to ride with torn wheels)
      - well, etc.
      1. bmv04636
        bmv04636 13 November 2014 11: 32
        +1
        http://youtu.be/YYsac2Kn58c
        Well, about the resource, the controversial cross-country issue is equalized, if not vice versa, for wheeled vehicles is sharply reduced. As for speed, the issue is also controversial 120 km / h on the road will not go.
        Well, let's talk about the cons
        -high center of gravity the tendency to capsize large side projections well, very high.
        -practically the inability to fire on the move due to a major design defect in the high center of gravity.
        -weak armor protection.
        1. rich
          rich 13 November 2014 13: 57
          0
          Vidio fake, filmed in 2013 or 2012. At the exercises in Ukraine.
      2. Aleksey_K
        Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 12: 47
        0
        And only on the roads. And shooting to the left or to the right threatens a coup.
    3. GDP
      GDP 13 November 2014 14: 16
      +1
      Wheel tanks are cheaper to use and have a longer service life. Although it seems to me this is not for our country, perhaps only if in a relatively small amount ...
  8. Crang
    Crang 13 November 2014 10: 46
    +2
    Quote: Nevsky_ZU
    Octopus-SD is a tank? !! And I thought self-propelled art installation

    It is a light floating tank. Self-propelled gun mounts have other artillery systems and towers under them.
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 12: 53
      -2
      There are no wheeled tanks.
      1. bmv04636
        bmv04636 13 November 2014 13: 25
        +1
        What about BT-5, 7
        1. Aleksey_K
          Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 13: 46
          0
          There were once wheeled-tracked tanks, you better ask, where are they now? Why aren't modern powers wheeled vehicles called tanks? On the submarine, you can also attach wheels to the side - do you think it will be a wheeled submarine tank? There are no wheeled tanks in the modern world - there are armored cars with powerful cannon weapons, but with weak armor.
          1. tchoni
            tchoni 13 November 2014 14: 43
            +2
            Question. PT-76 - a tank? - tank! Ani has no anti-ballistic or anti-ballistic armor.
            And for that matter - let's define: what is a tank?
      2. tchoni
        tchoni 13 November 2014 14: 41
        +1
        Yes, they already understood you - the idea is not original. You do not see the gopher, but he is.
      3. cosmos111
        cosmos111 13 November 2014 18: 43
        0
        Quote: Алексей_К
        There are no wheeled tanks.

        wheeled tank "Bismark", developed in the late 80s in South Africa ....
        weight 55-60 tons (according to various sources, anti-ballistic booking))))
        tower from MBT "Olifant MK1B" ...

        this is? WHAT IS NOT A WHEELED TANK ?????
  9. fktrcfylhn61
    fktrcfylhn61 13 November 2014 11: 08
    0
    Not a clear concept? Why, especially wheeled armored vehicles, raise higher and higher? Increasing the frontal, and especially the side projection! After all, human capabilities practically limit the capabilities of armored vehicles! The lowest silhouette, and one person, only for setting missions to systems and weapons! And it turns out that the "Fighter" is only ground-based. With maximum dynamics and firepower of modern weapons. How many armored "coffins" can be built for the entire crew!
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 13 November 2014 12: 15
      0
      One person cannot manage. As shown by German experiments of the 90s, at least two. They had a "tank-stand" Kampfpanzer Versuchsträger 2000.

      Computers in it were replaced by both the driver and the gunner. But all the same, the crew of two people was recognized as optimal. Sensory overloads (excess of information) did not allow to dump all tasks on one.
      1. GDP
        GDP 13 November 2014 14: 29
        0
        Minimum 3 crew member needed!

        The driver, gunner and crew commander to set the task ...
        It’s not enough just to shoot and ride, you still need to look around, assess the situation in general, where to go, who to shoot at, whom to leave ...
  10. Aleksey_K
    Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 12: 58
    0
    I would like to remind you that in the modern World there are no wheeled tanks. People do not confuse the name.

    A wheeled tank is an UNOFFICIAL term used in relation to a number of modern heavy cannon armored vehicles (sometimes also classified as wheeled tank destroyers or infantry fire support vehicles), the main characteristics of which are close to those of modern light or, in the case of fire power, even basic combat tanks.

    Stop using your ignorance to insult real tankers! This is an ARMORED CAR! Lenin in 1917 g. Acted with the armored vehicle, and not with a machine gun tank.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 13 November 2014 13: 19
      0
      Quote: Алексей_К
      acted with the ARMOR, and not with a machine gun tank.

      Firstly, machine-gun tanks (the second name is "females") did exist then.
      Secondly, there was a stable expression "Russian type of tank" - half-track armored vehicles with Kregs propellers
      1. Aleksey_K
        Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 13: 53
        0
        The Russian type of tank was formed in 1941, when all the "trash", which was called tanks, was destroyed in the very first days of the Nazi attack on the USSR. And there were T-34-76, KV-1 and further KV-2, T-34-85, IS-2 and IS-3 tanks and self-propelled guns SU-76, SU-85, SU-100, SU-122, SU-152. Notice those - not a single wheeled vehicle. TANK is strength, power, fire, maneuver, swiftness and ARMOR. Well, what kind of armor is on the wheels. Do not make me laugh.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 13 November 2014 15: 54
          0
          Quote: Алексей_К
          The Russian type of tank was formed in 1941, when all the "trash"

          Loud, patriotic ... But not true.

          In real life, our real achievements in this area were
          semi-caterpillar vehicles of the First World War with the Kregs mover (by the way, taken by the Germans before the Second World War)
          -Tank T-44, the world's first tank with a modern layout. With a rear transverse engine, rear-wheel drive on the tracks, the central location of the tower, removing excessive load on the front rollers inherent in the T-34.
  11. Lopatov
    Lopatov 13 November 2014 13: 29
    +1
    Quote: Алексей_К
    I want to remind you that in the modern world there are no wheeled tanks


    And there is

    Battle tanks are tracked armored battle tanks.
    machines with a dry weight of at least 16,5 metric tons and
    armed with a cannon of caliber not less than 75 millimeters, having an angle
    360 degree rotation. Also,
    any wheeled armored combat vehicles
    machines that meet all the other above criteria,
    also considered battle tanks
    .
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 13: 57
      -1
      What are the modern European powers that are armed with wheeled tanks. Even Japan (the yellow-faced nation) does not call them tanks.
    2. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 14: 04
      0
      By the way, are all our Russian self-propelled guns like "Akatsia" or "Gvozdika" tanks? This is self-propelled artillery. There is no need to invent or confuse anything. There are no wheeled tanks in modern armies. There are armored vehicles - armored vehicles. Even planes have armor, but they don't call Su-24 or Su-34 tanks. There is no need to mix the arms of the troops into one mess. Probably all of you are not military.
      1. tchoni
        tchoni 13 November 2014 14: 45
        +2
        Yes. You are a stubborn comrade. Aren't you a PhD for an hour?
        1. Aleksey_K
          Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 22: 09
          +1
          I am a professional tanker. And I know a lot about tanks. This is 105 mm. wheeled anti-tank self-propelled guns ST-1.
          1. tchoni
            tchoni 14 November 2014 09: 49
            +1
            I do not argue with you. I am just amused by your ardor in a trifle matter.
            Currently, there is no single generally accepted classification system for armored vehicles. The question is how the manufacturer, the operator and others are positioning the device. Everything can depend banally on the country: in German (at least in the language of official documents) the word "tank" does not occur at all - there is "armored combat vehicle".
            We want to consider the "octopus" anti-tank self-propelled gun - we think - the Indonesians, like the Indians in conversations among themselves, very often call it a light tank.
            You can call this ST-1 tank destroyer, stuff it with armor-piercing and cumulative ammunition and use it as a mobile anti-tank reserve (only, I'm afraid the power of the gun will be somewhat insufficient). You can, like the British, call it a "wheeled tank" to stuff the PF and give it to a mobile group, subject to actions on a suitable terrain. You can, like the Italians, call it a heavy armored car. It all depends on the approach. And it doesn't matter at all.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Lopatov
        Lopatov 13 November 2014 15: 32
        +2
        Quote: Алексей_К
        By the way, are all our Russian self-propelled guns like "Akatsia" or "Gvozdika" tanks?

        No. Because they able to effectively carry out combat missions from closed firing positions. That's what it is main attribute of self-propelled gunsand not what you were thinking.

        If you teach the T-90 to shoot with a closed firearm, for example, by installing an aiming system from 2S19, and adding a projectile with a variable charge to the BK of the HE, then it will be called "ACS T-90" under the CFE Treaty.
  12. Robert Nevsky
    Robert Nevsky 13 November 2014 13: 41
    0
    I like chain tanks more
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 22: 10
      +1
      Only dogs are chain. Tanks - tracked.
      1. scripter
        scripter 14 November 2014 12: 52
        0
        Quote: Robert Nevsky
        I like chain tanks more

        Illiterate people have completely gone.
      2. scripter
        scripter 14 November 2014 12: 52
        0
        Quote: Robert Nevsky
        I like chain tanks more

        Illiterate people have completely gone.
  13. Aleksey_K
    Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 14: 55
    +1
    The author of the article stirred everyone up, in the original source (http://alternathistory.org.ua/) this combat vehicle is called "105 mm wheeled anti-tank SPG ST-1" (China)
    1. Crang
      Crang 13 November 2014 15: 10
      +2
      Quote: Алексей_К
      "105 mm wheeled anti-tank SPG ST-1"

      This is from the evil one. "Anti-tank" SPGs or PT-SPGs existed in WW2 and have long since disappeared. These self-propelled guns were created on the basis of the tank and had the same or more powerful booking. All their difference from the tank is the absence of a turret. Instead, a fixed wheelhouse in which the weapon was located. If you make a rotating turret on such a tank destroyer, then the differences from a conventional tank there will be no at all... What is it then? "Anti-tank tank"? Absurd. Tank he is a tank. No need to make up any bullshit.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 13 November 2014 17: 53
        +3
        "All their difference from the tank is the absence of a turret" ///

        I can not agree with you. Americans already during
        WWII did self-propelled guns with a rotating tower.
        They just had money for it, while others didn’t.
        A spinning tower is an expensive thing.
        The difference between self-propelled guns from a tank is rather light armor with a heavy direct-fire gun. And the tactic is shooting only from ambushes.
        If both armor and weapons are light - then such a machine
        called differently - a light tank.
      2. Aleksey_K
        Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 22: 21
        0
        More recently, Russia foolishly tried to buy the same equipment from Italy "Centurion". You are probably a "sailor", since you call the combat compartment of an ACS "wheelhouse"? WW2 self-propelled guns were created without a turret, because this technology of manufacturing combat vehicles is simpler than that of a tank, and they were made during WW2 more than tanks. More shells are included and more spacious. When a shell hits a turret ring, the turret, as a rule, tears off. The WW2 ACS has no such "defect". Well, about the anti-tank tank, you are right. Both the KV-2 and IS-2 were just such tanks. The tigers were afraid of them and refused from the oncoming battle, tk. 90% of the Tigers were on fire. But, both the KV-2 and the IS-2 are very complex machines compared to the ACS. Their release was severely limited by this complexity; in short, they were few in the USSR.
        1. tchoni
          tchoni 14 November 2014 09: 56
          0
          Record IS-2 and KV-2 typical assault vehicles in anti-tank? (with their rate of fire) - have mercy - you're a tanker. It can and should be used as a PT - but for these machines this is more of an auxiliary task, especially for the KV-2 with its howitzer ballistics.
      3. tchoni
        tchoni 14 November 2014 09: 52
        0
        "Octopus" is positioned exactly as a tank destroyer - and it has a turret. In this case, the name reflects the method of application - and precisely the action from an ambush in the absence of a decent reservation. In general, the name is a matter of the approach and views of a particular manufacturer (customer, operator).
  14. Crang
    Crang 13 November 2014 14: 57
    +2
    Quote: Алексей_К
    By the way, are all our Russian self-propelled guns like "Akatsia" or "Gvozdika" tanks?

    This is an SPG. The difference between a modern SPG and a tank is a different balance of protection and firepower. Bulletproof armor only. A "relaxed" but large-caliber cannon with low internal ballistics, but high external (for tanks, vice versa) and an enlarged turret to ensure an elevation angle of at least 45 degrees. By these signs, you can easily distinguish a tank from an SPG.
    Quote: Алексей_К
    There are no wheeled tanks in modern armies.

    There is. They are simply called BRM. In fact, these are wheeled tanks. their armament complex is completely identical to the tank one. Ruikat, Centaur, Sting. Now this Chinese tank.
    Quote: Алексей_К
    You are probably not all military

    Perhaps you are just too "military".
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 22: 31
      0
      What you have listed is armored cars (Centaur, Ruikat). And the sting is self-propelled. Do not confuse armored vehicles and self-propelled guns with tanks - these are different types of troops. But I’m a military man and even though I’m 65 years old, I shoot perfectly, my health is good, because I don’t drink, don’t smoke and go in for sports. And he’s ready to kill enemies without blinking an eye, and my conscience will not torment me, like some tantrums.
  15. Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 13 November 2014 14: 58
    0
    "Piece by piece, PLA is a new sample" :)

    Another "seamless compilation".
  16. activator
    activator 13 November 2014 15: 08
    0
    Quote: Алексей_К
    modern armies of wheeled tanks. There are armored vehicles - armored cars. Even airplanes have armor, but I don’t call tanks

    But what about BTR, too, or not? If you follow your concept, this is also an armored car, but it has a transcript.
    1. Crang
      Crang 13 November 2014 15: 39
      +1
      Quote: activator
      But what about his armored personnel carrier?

      There are five main types of armored vehicles:

      - tank
      - self-propelled guns
      - BMP
      - armored personnel carrier
      - BRDM

      And their subspecies. Everything else, nothing more than a variation on the topic.
      1. activator
        activator 13 November 2014 18: 13
        0
        Quote: Krang
        And their subspecies. Everything else, nothing more than a variation on the topic.

        Yes, I am in principle in the know, but I wanted to hear the answer from Alexei to.
        1. Aleksey_K
          Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 22: 41
          +1
          Self-propelled guns - self-propelled artillery mount, artillery;
          BMP - infantry support vehicle, infantry;
          BTR - armored personnel carrier - infantry support vehicle, infantry;
          BRDM - combat reconnaissance vehicle.

          These are not tanks!

          Now KAMAZ and began to make armored, too, or what tanks?

          There is a general concept of "armored vehicles" and part of it is tanks.
      2. Aleksey_K
        Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 22: 40
        +1
        Self-propelled guns - self-propelled artillery mount, artillery;
        BMP - infantry support vehicle, infantry;
        BTR - armored personnel carrier - infantry support vehicle, infantry;
        BRDM - combat reconnaissance vehicle.

        These are not tanks!

        Now KAMAZ and began to make armored, too, or what tanks?

        Do not confuse the general concept of "armored vehicles" and part of it - tanks.
    2. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 22: 34
      0
      An APC is not a tank. This is a (armored) infantry support fighting vehicle. In Russia now there are no even light tanks, because they are obsolete, although they are floating. In Russia there is a "Main battle tank", even heavy tanks are not available due to their lack of prospects.
  17. Technical engineer
    Technical engineer 13 November 2014 17: 54
    +1
    No luck to the Chinese. Serdyukov removed. And they would have bought
  18. kplayer
    kplayer 13 November 2014 21: 20
    +2
    Someone finds it difficult to perceive the conventional term (more colloquial), and even more so in quotation marks: "wheeled tank" - to refer to wheeled armored combat vehicles with heavy weapons (first heard on Soviet TV, in 1989 in relation to South African vehicles with a tank layout Rooikat / "Ruikat" 8x8, 28t.). In the publication of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the magazine ZVO, a conditional abbreviation is used - BMTV, which unites both light tracked (light tanks) and wheeled armored combat vehicles with a 75 - 125-mm cannon.
    ACS - an abbreviation originally for self-propelled art. systems of the USSR and OVD (incl. 152-mm "Dana", Czechoslovakia), now for self-propelled gun systems PA (105 - 203-mm) is used more accurate - SG, BRDM - also only for the same name Soviet BRDM-1 / -2, BRM is used for classification.

    PS: For example, the BBX AMX-10RC (6x6, France) is classified as BRM and BMW, which is not important.
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 13 November 2014 22: 47
      0
      I am not against the idea of ​​a "wheeled tank" being introduced into Russian armored vehicles by some of the readers of the Military Review. When the military adopts this term, then I will not argue. In the meantime, there are no "wheeled tanks" either abroad or in Russia. Moreover, the author of the article confused everything. He took as a basis the source (http://alternathistory.org.ua/), and it says that it is "105 mm. Wheeled anti-tank SPG ST-1".
      1. kplayer
        kplayer 17 November 2014 18: 57
        +1
        "Wheeled tank" (wheeled BM with heavy weapons) - decomp. including among the military, or do you not admit such a thought? Is it really hard to accept playing an expert and driving empty talk? It's also easy to understand as a rocket-gun tank, RPT - it would be strange instead of MBT. Although, whatever you like! if for you any blogger or journalist is an authoritative source who wrote the name of his own discretion on the neophyte. private network share.
        In Russia, in addition to the universal 120-mm Non-SVK SAO (8x8) similar machines are not and are not expected, self-propelled guns also exist and the term has not been canceled. Self-propelled guns as a template that no longer falls on the BMW in the 21st century *, because associated with SG. Abroad, they are also used in many areas in the military sphere as defining English abbreviations and abbreviations (MBT - Main Battle Tank, IFV - Infantry Fighting Vehicle, etc. etc.).

        * ACS traditionally belong to artillery units (batteries and divisions, ie PA and PT), modern specialized "wheeled tanks" - more often to reconnaissance (armored cavalry) battles and companies, and reconnaissance. platoons of bat-s, some. BMTV - for motorized infantry companies, for example, US and South African companies: 2/3 platoons of BMP Ratel-20 (6x6) / BTR Stryker M1126 (8x8), and 1 platoon of BMTV Ratel-90 / Stryker M1128 MGS.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  19. bmv04636
    bmv04636 14 November 2014 09: 28
    0

    Here is a little smoke and finish this topic, then you can make a wheeled from any tank laughing
  20. scripter
    scripter 14 November 2014 12: 54
    0
    Quote: Алексей_К
    The author of the article stirred everyone up, in the original source (http://alternathistory.org.ua/) this combat vehicle is called "105 mm wheeled anti-tank SPG ST-1" (China)

    That's right, this is an armored car with powerful cannon weapons, but not MBT.
  21. scripter
    scripter 14 November 2014 12: 58
    0
    Quote: bmv04636

    Here is a little smoke and finish this topic, then you can make a wheeled from any tank laughing

    MBT this truck will not pull.
    Is that light armored tracked vehicles up to 20 tons.