The role of Soviet diplomacy in resolving the Armenian-Turkish conflict in 1920

One of the episodes that demonstrated Turkey’s interest in stable relations with the RSFSR was the Armenian-Turkish war of 1920. In early June, the Dashnaks [1], incited by the American-British imperialists, launched an offensive against the Turkish troops in the Olti region, which was supported by the advance of the Greek forces behind the “Milna Line” [2] in Western Anatolia. The Soviet government, realizing the danger of this new provocation by the Entente, sought to assist in the peaceful settlement of the Dashnak-Turkish conflict [3]. To this end, the Soviet government turned 3 June 1920 to the Kemalist government with the proposal "at any time at the invitation of interested parties to mediate the peaceful establishment of the border between Turkey, on the one hand, Armenia, Azerbaijan - on the other," and invited the Turkish delegates to Moscow to negotiate [4]. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Government of the Grand National Assembly of Turkey (VNST) in a response telegram announced its readiness to accept mediation to Soviet Russia [5].

The Turkish side, at a difficult time for it, took the initiative in establishing bilateral relations. A delegation led by Sami Bey was sent to Moscow to conduct negotiations. At the end of August 1920, the Soviet government was able to initial the agreed articles of the Soviet-Turkish treaty. After initialing the future treaty, which was a serious event in strengthening Soviet-Turkish relations, the Turkish military commission remained in Moscow to discuss the list of military materials requested by the Turkish side. Despite its limited capacity, the party was immediately prepared. weapons. In addition, an agreement was reached on financial assistance in the amount of 5 million gold rubles. The help of the RSFSR played an extremely important role in the struggle of the Turkish people for their independence. Especially since it was timely, since the Anglo-Greek troops advanced far into Anatolia.

However, the establishment of strong friendly ties with Soviet Russia was delayed as a result of the hostility towards the Sami talks. In his reports to Kemal he disoriented the Turkish government, biasedly covered the policy of the RSFSR and the course of negotiations in Moscow, which made it difficult to sign the treaty. There were also opponents of Kemal’s foreign policy in the Great National Assembly. All this for six months delayed the signing of the friendship treaty between Moscow and Ankara. During this time, the Soviet government had to deal with the provocative policy of the Entente, which tried to thwart the conclusion of the Soviet-Turkish treaty. [6]

Soviet Russia, the first to recognize the Kemal government, was the first to send its diplomatic representatives to Ankara. The opening of the Soviet embassy in Ankara took place on November 7 1920 [7].

After the Dashnak detachments, despite the material support of the Entente and the USA, suffered a series of defeats due to the numerical superiority of the enemy, the Soviet government offered Armenia a mediation. The Dashnaks also rejected this proposal, hoping for help from the Entente and the United States. The Western powers were counting on complications between Soviet Russia and Turkey and prepared at the expense of Armenia to reach an agreement with Turkey and use it in anti-Soviet actions in the Caucasus. Menshevik Georgia refused to help Armenia and 6 November declared its neutrality. In the end, the November Dashnaks were forced to conclude a truce, and on December 18 signed the Treaty of Alexandropol [2], under which Armenia became, in fact, the satellite of Turkey. However, Dashnaks no longer had the right to sign the treaty, since on November 8 Soviet power was established in Armenia. [29] The Soviet Government of Armenia did not recognize this treaty. Nor did he recognize the government of the RSFSR [9].

The Dashnak-Kemalist war complicated the situation in the Caucasus and created tension in the Soviet-Turkish relations. However, the plans of the Entente failed. Lenin noted: “The Turkish offensive was calculated against us. The Entente dug a hole for us and got into it itself, for we got Soviet Armenia ”[11].

The establishment of Soviet power in Armenia meant for the Turkish side the need for new negotiations with the government of Soviet Russia, in order to ascertain the latter’s position on the Turkish-Armenian border and, if possible, obtain confirmation of the effectiveness of the Alexandropol Treaty. Therefore, at the end of November 1920, the Ankara government turned to the Soviet side with a proposal to convene a Soviet-Turkish conference, which met with a positive response from the RSFSR government. 7 December 1920. The Plenum of the Central Committee of the RCP (B.) Considered Chicherin's proposal for an agreement with Turkey and instructed the NKID to work out a draft agreement and submit it for approval by the Central Committee [12].

Thanks to the activity of Soviet diplomacy and the realistic position taken by Kemal, the difficulties in Soviet-Turkish relations were successfully overcome. In early December, the question of convening a Soviet-Turkish conference for drafting and signing a political treaty was agreed in principle. Moscow was chosen as the venue for the conference, where the Turkish delegation arrived on February 18 1921. The negotiating instructions received from Lenin said that it was necessary to start “the beginning of rapprochement and friendship extremely firmly” [13].

Notes:
[1] Armenian nationalists united in 1890 in the Dashnaktsutyun (Armenian Revolutionary Alliance) party.
[2] The dividing line established by Great Britain unilaterally in the North Caucasus, running along the Caucasus Mountains from Petrovsk-port (Makhachkala) to Tuapse. It was named for the British General J. Milne.
[3] Chicherin G.V. Articles and speeches on international cooperation. M., 1961, p. 196.
[4] Documents of the USSR foreign policy. T. II, p. 555.
[5] Documents of the USSR foreign policy. T. III, p. 325.
[6] Bagirov Yu.A. Of stories Soviet-Turkish relations in 1920-1922. Baku, 1965, p. 37-41.
[7] Kireev N.G. History of Turkey: XX century. M., 2007, p. 143.
[8] Alexandropol was called Leninakan from 1924, from 1991 it was called Gyumri.
[9] See: Kadishev, A.B. Intervention and civil war in Transcaucasia. M., 1960; Bagirov Yu.A. From the history of Soviet-Turkish relations in 1920-1922. Baku, 1965; Galoyan G. The struggle for Soviet power in Armenia. M., 1957.
[10] History of international relations and foreign policy of the USSR. T. 1. M., 1986, p. 92-93.
[11] Lenin V.I. Concluding Remarks on the Concessions Report on the Faction of the RCP (b) VIII Congress of Soviets 21 December 1920. - In the book: PSS. 5 ed. T. 42. M., 1970, p. 125.
[12] Heifetz A.N. Soviet diplomacy and the peoples of the East (1921-1927). M., 1968, p. 83.
[13] Kuznetsova S.I. The establishment of the Soviet-Turkish relations. M., 1961, p. 47.

An excerpt from the book by Pavel Gusterin "Soviet diplomacy in the Muslim East in 1917-1921" (Saarbrucken, 2014)

Comments

[Aasdem]

The Entente was aware of the inability of the Dashnaks to retain Turkish troops,
the calculation was that the Turks would go further to Azerbaijan and come into conflict with Soviet Russia.

[Pavel Gusterin]

Entente was aware

Please indicate the source of this information.

[andj61]

Where did the Turks go to Azerbaijan when the Anglo-Greek troops moved in the west of Turkey into the depths of Anatolia? But Lenin really pacified Kemalist Turkey at the expense of the territory on which the Armenians had lived since ancient times, including at the expense of the territory that even before the World War was part of the Russian Empire. Kemal was supported by weapons, equipment, etc., which contributed to the victory of the Turks over the Greeks (the British did not particularly want to fight). The result is obvious - there are almost no Greeks in Turkey, and at the beginning of the 20th century, everything western, and the northern coast of Anatolia was completely inhabited by Greeks. Yes, and in the Turkish part of Armenia, where the main Armenian symbol is located, Mount Ararat you will not find Armenians during the day with fire!

[sem_juver]

You are right, the Soviet leadership gave the Turks lands on which not only the blood of Armenians, but also Russians was shed. This is sad.

[rakiuzo]

Talat Pasha vo vremja pereselil Armjanov, a ne to, vo vremja vojny (kak tut vyrazheno - armjansko-kemalistskaja vojna) nachalis' by Armjanskij bunt vo vseh gorodah, vot i togda tjazhelo bylo by spravitsja so situatsie. To chto Armjany genosidom nazyvajut - eto vran'e; eto byl udachnyj shag, chtoby buntujuschih armjan v mirnie territorii otpravit '. PS - Vse vashi minusy prinimajutsja krasnym ordenom - tem i gorzhus'!

[sem_juver]

Your lies about eviction to peaceful territories somehow do not fit with the orders of the same Talaat about the extermination of Armenians. And when this ghoul was shot in Germany, even a German court acquitted the murder of this subhuman because of his crimes against Armenians and other Christian peoples. It’s a pity that until now, you Turks haven’t realized that sooner or later the killing of more than one and a half million people will hurt.

[predator.3]

In response to the protest of the Turkish government against the fact that the emblem of the Armenian SSR depicts Ararat, who is not part of Armenia, the People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs of the USSR Georgy Chicherin answered: "The flag of Turkey has a crescent moon, but the moon is not part of Turkey."

[Ima tsoh]

The Turks who fled from the persecution of Genghis Khan entered foreign lands with a sword and destroyed one of the most developed in terms of culture and achievements in the world. The consequences for Armenians are still being reversed. The Bolsheviks in that period actually "traded" the lands of the Armenians.

[Nagaibak]

Ima tsoh "The Turks who fled from the persecution of Genghis Khan entered foreign lands with a sword and destroyed one of the most developed in terms of culture and achievements region of the world."
Just don’t have to drive.))) Read books at your leisure.))) Seljuk Turks from whom Azerbaijanis come came to these places in the 11th century. And Chinggis at 13.))))

[Nagaibak]

Ima tsokh "The consequences for Armenians are still being reversed."
In fact, these events are still reflected in the Armenians.
This is the invasion of the Seljuk Turks. It changed the balance of power in the region. And those who ignored the illiterate along the way cannot read, they are too lazy to even look into the wiki.
From wikipedia for the lazy:
"Alp-Arslan (Turkic brave lion) also Muhammad ibn Daud or Mohamed bin Daoud (Arabic ألب أرسلان, full name - Ziya ad-Din wa Adud ad-Daula wa Taj al-Milla Abu Shuja Muhammad Alp Arslan ibn Daoud , January 20, 1029 [1] - December 15, 1072) - Sultan of the Seljuk state from 1063.
Biography
Nephew of the childless founder of the Togulul Sultanate. In 1059 he became governor of Khorasan. In 1060-1061 he was defeated and captured by the king of Georgia Bagrat IV. Due to the fact that his sister was the wife of the Armenian king, he managed to achieve the liberation of Alp-Arslan by sending rich gifts to the king of Georgia [2]. Subsequently, the sultan conducted a series of conquests: in Georgia, Armenia and Arran (1064), against the Fatimids (in Syria and Palestine), in Northern Iran and Central Asia (1065).
Under his command, the Seljuks launched an attack on the Byzantine Empire.
Alp Arslan humiliates Roman IV Diogenes
On August 19, 1071, at Manzikert (Lake Van region), he defeated the Byzantine emperor Roman IV Diogenes and took him prisoner, after which he annexed Anatolia to the possessions of the Seljuk Sultanate. "

[xent]

This article is an exact copy, probably taken from the Soviet era. Firstly, only in Soviet history, the army of the Armenian Republic is wound by the Dashnak, and secondly, even a little of what happened at that time is not stated here. The Armenian-Turkish war of 1920 was really started by the Armenians, who tried to achieve by force what was given to Armenia under the Treaty of Sevres. And at the beginning of the war, the Armenian troops defeated the Turks in the direction of Olti, but Lenin appeared here, who not only donated money to Kemal, but also uniforms and weapons. At the same time, in Armenia itself, local Bolsheviks intensified their actions, many of them from the RSFSR were sent to Armenia. During the war, they propagated that the Turkish authorities were also Bolsheviks and the Turkish "red" army would not occupy Armenia, their goal would be to free the Armenians from the Dashnak government and help the Armenians create a Soviet republic. After powerful propaganda, many Armenian soldiers simply deserted or did not shoot at the attacking Turks. Subsequently, Armenia was encircled, on the one side by the Turkish, and on the other by the Red army. Lenin simply forced the Armenian government to capitulate. After that, Soviet-Turkish negotiations were held in Kars, which continued in Moscow. As a result, in 1921, a document was signed between Lenin and Keml according to which the Armenian lands, which have always been part of Armenia (these borders were recognized by the League of Nations, which in 1919 recognized Armenia as an independent country) Maku, Igdir, Surmalu, Kars, Sarigamish and even a mountain Ararat was beaten and given to Turkey. No representative of Armenia signed this document, in fact, Lenin presented these provinces to Turkey without the consent of the Armenians.
I also want to say that somewhere in the mid-1970s a special commission was created to clarify the Soviet-Turkish border. The commission included representatives of the Armenian SSR and the Georgian SSR. The Commission prepared a document on which the existing borders were recognized as valid. However, Colonel Gevorgyan (or I don’t remember exactly Grigoryan now) refused to sign this document. It came to the point that a representative of the USSR General Staff flew to Turkey to force the Armenian to sign this document. But he never signed and the document was accepted without the signature of a representative of the Armenian SSR. After returning to the USSR, we don’t know anything about his fate.
All this simply shows that Kemal was able to simply deceive Lenin, like we are also Communists and received as a present the Armenian lands, which were always part of eastern Armenia and never were part of western or Turkish Armenia.

[Pavel Gusterin]

I give links. And what is your source of information?

[xent]

All your links go to the Soviet era ... if you are interested in my links then you will find them in state. the archives of the Republic of Armenia ... please visit, it’s absolutely free, but you won’t distort history with Soviet delirium!

[Pavel Gusterin]

First, the work of Kireev - 2007 (reference number 7).

Secondly, you have not proved that I distort history with "Soviet delirium".

Thirdly, I can also send you to the Foreign Policy Archive of the Russian Federation, i.e. The Foreign Ministry archive, on the basis of which the "Documents of the USSR Foreign Policy" were published, to which I also refer. By the way, you can visit this Archive absolutely free of charge.

[xent]

The only book of our time ... and what do you think he studied the Armenian sources ... I think not. And this is just sad, although you have read about it in the academic history of Armenia out of the corner of your eye or not ... but in vain !!!

[Pavel Gusterin]

First, Documents of the Foreign Policy of the USSR is a collection of documents, not a monograph.

Secondly, I doubt that the academic history of Armenia in such matters can be objective.

[xent]

The only book of our time ... and what do you think he studied the Armenian sources ... I think not. And this is just sad, although you have read about it in the academic history of Armenia out of the corner of your eye or not ... but in vain !!!

[Pavel Gusterin]

First, Documents of the Foreign Policy of the USSR is a collection of documents, not a monograph.

Secondly, I doubt that the academic history of Armenia in such matters can be objective.

[Nagaibak]

Pavel Gusterin "Secondly, you have not proved that I distort history with" Soviet delirium "."
And they have all the Soviet nonsense.))) If there were no Red Army there would be no Republic of Armenia. I think Lenin acted wisely. He did not fight the Turks, the situation should be considered in the context of the ongoing civil war in Russia. In 1920 they were defeated by the White Poles. And also Wrangel. And the Far East is not under control. What are the Armenian lands in FIG.))) God forbid that they managed to capture.)))

[xent]

Or can you subscribe to the fact that the provinces giving Turkey were part of Turkey ????

[Pavel Gusterin]

"Turkey was given the Kars region and some other regions Armenia, which from a political point of view cannot be called a justified step. "

This is a quote from the same my book, p. 49. Bold is highlighted here.

[xent]

Unfortunately, I do not have this book, but 99% of Soviet propaganda against the first Republic of Armenia is a distortion of history.

[Pavel Gusterin]

The point is not whether you have my book at hand or not, but that you are looking for something to cling to, and therefore ask provocative questions.

You write and publish your book based on your materials. Who's stopping you? I will be glad for you!

[xent]

Unfortunately, I do not have this book, but 99% of Soviet propaganda against the first Republic of Armenia is a distortion of history.

[Pavel Gusterin]

The point is not whether you have my book at hand or not, but that you are looking for something to cling to, and therefore ask provocative questions.

You write and publish your book based on your materials. Who's stopping you? I will be glad for you!

[xent]

[1] Armenian nationalists united in 1890 in the Dashnaktsutyun (Armenian Revolutionary Alliance) party.

Or do you want to say that now someone will clarify who the Dashnaks are. This is a socialist party, a member of the social intern, and suddenly, in the year 2014, in a free and democratic world, someone speaks about the party Հայ Յեղափոխական Դաշնակցություն ... (Armenian Revolutionary Federation) ...

[Pavel Gusterin]

This is my author's point of view. You can not agree with her. It is your right.

[xent]

I don’t understand why, but my comments are deleted, you’re probably Pavel, just reporting a violation of the site’s rules ... I don’t use a single word that contains unethical content ... or you just have nothing to answer to the facts. I will say it again ... You distort the history of Armenia ... All your arguments are from Soviet sources, you wrote something about Armenia but did not study a single line from Armenian sources, this is a one-sided and not scientific approach ... I have nothing more for you to tell.

[Pavel Gusterin]

I do not report a violation of the rules. If I began to do this, I would admit my defeat in our discussion, and discussion has value for me by itself, as I sharpen my thoughts in it.

Some of my comments, instead of accepting the corrections, turn into "error". I don't suspect you of anything.

[Pavel Gusterin]

I wonder why you are not talking about Turkish sources? Also nothing to say?

[Pavel Gusterin]

So the fact of the matter is that there are no facts from Your side. Please provide at least one document from the archive you have named, indicating its name, fund number, inventory number, case number, and sheet number, that is, as is customary in the scientific community.

[Pavel Gusterin]

You talk all the time about facts that you don’t prove or confirm. This is not a scientific approach, but a populist one. My goal was not to like the Armenians, but to state my vision of what was happening.

If you listen to you, it turns out that those to whom I refer in my work, too, as you put it, "openly showed their personal dislike for the Armenians."

[xent]

That's exactly it ... most of your sources had their personal dislike of the Armenians.

[Pavel Gusterin]

It is a pity that we can not invite them to our conversation. I wonder what they would answer you?

[Nagaibak]

Xent "That's right ... most of your sources had their own personal dislike for Armenians."
Stupidity. And Azerbaijanis will write about hostility towards them.

[xent]

Do you, as an author, think that a party that has existed for 124 years and has officially been active in at least 50 countries of the world can simply be called a union of nationalists ...? Well now it’s already clear why the armed forces of the Republic of Armenia suddenly became Dashnak detachments ... I have nothing to say to you since you openly showed your personal dislike of the Armenians. It was only because of this that someone could write such an article or a book in which it is not facts that matter, but only copyright that has its own point of view.

[xent]

I ask you to clarify this phrase scientifically, without a personal opinion and point of view ...

After the Dashnak units

and please tell me without emotion, to a person who does not understand anything in history, to explain how the unit of the Armenian army can become Dashnak units.

[Pavel Gusterin]

Because they were Dashnak troops. What else to explain here?

By the way, take a closer look: in my opinion, the comments do not disappear, but jump to another place.

[xent]

Dear Pavel, since when this unit of the army has been called detachments, I'm sorry, but you just show that you do not have a scientific approach. Anyone will understand that a person who does not understand the difference between the army and party units is either an amateur or fulfills an order for money.
Perhaps it will not stop you from reading this small article and you will probably be herded for deceit.

http://www.yerkramas.org/2014/06/16/osobennosti-formirovaniya-silovyx-struktur-p
ervoj-respubliki-armeniya-i-ix-boevaya-deyatelnost-nakanune-v-period-i-after-sus
hhestvovaniya-respubliki /

PS By the way, there are many sources showing that you distort the story.

[Pavel Gusterin]

Before you rush the accusations, first read for yourself what you propose to read to your opponent.

On the way of its formation, the Armenian army and special services (as well as the Armenian statehood itself) went through several difficult and pivotal stages, which were connected with the history of the Armenian liberation movement at the turn of the XIX – XX centuries. and national party structures where ARF Dashnaktsutyun (ARF) played the leading role. Formally, the following main stages of the creation and activities of the Armenian army and special services of the First Republic of Armenia can be distinguished:

1) 1892 – 1914 - the formation of underground military party structures for the organization of the revolutionary movement and the self-defense of compatriots in Western Armenia; the implementation of a number of combat and special operations in Ottoman Turkey, Iran and the South Caucasus;

2) September 1914 g. - December 1915 g. - Creation of 6-ti Armenian Volunteer Regiments (five squads of the ARF party and one detachment of the Gnchak party) as part of the Russian army on the Caucasian front;

And it is not taken out of context. For you, I highlighted in bold type what I myself am talking about in my book. That is, my book corresponds to the facts that you are trying to cite as counter-arguments. You yourself are not funny?

[Pavel Gusterin]

In 2, the paragraph refers to 1914-1915, it is this point that I highlighted in bold, so 1892 was not the case.

[Pavel Gusterin]

See also from the same place:

After the outbreak of the First World War, French Prime Minister Gumerk, through the political figure Viktor Perar, suggested that the Dashnaks join the allies in order to gain independence from Turkey after the war [19]. The political circles of France, England and the United States assured Armenians that the activity of volunteer detachments will increase their prestige in the eyes of the great powers, and the stronger these detachments will be, the fewer barriers there will be to the solution of the Armenian question. And such a Dashnak movement was organized in the Caucasus, where Armenians also stayed to participate in the volunteer detachments. from Ottoman Turkey, Iran, USA, France, Greece, Bulgaria, Russia, etc.

[xent]

Sorry Pavel, but it feels like you lived in Armenia in 1920 and you know for sure that the Armenians didn’t have an army ... you don’t understand that anyone will laugh at your words. Since you do not show a single fact that the units and units of the Armed Forces of Armenia fought against Turkey ... by the way, I showed you that the Republic of Armenia in 1918-20 was able to create a combat-ready army. I'm not even talking about units in Zangezur, where until August 1921 the Red Army suffered defeat after defeat ...

[Pavel Gusterin]

If you lived in Armenia in the 1920 year, it was unlikely that you still understood what an army is.

[xent]

Dear, you look at the dates ... where is already 1892 and where is the 1920th. If until 1918 the Armenians did not have a state, how could the army be, yes there were volunteer regiments and troops, which after independence became part of the Armenian army. But this does not mean that they were Dashnak units.

[Pavel Gusterin]

In 2, the paragraph refers to 1914-1915, it is this point that I highlighted in bold, so 1892 was not the case.

[Pavel Gusterin]

You yourself brought me the material in which I found information that refutes your point of view.

[xent]

Pavel of 1914-15 was the first world war, in which the Armenians participated in volunteer regiments for Russia, Armenia became independent only in 1918, do not you distinguish dates?

[Pavel Gusterin]

Yes, here's another, 1918, about which you speak:

Until 16 September 1918, that is, until the creation of the Musavat Azerbaijan and the seizure of Baku by the Turkish army of Nuri-Pasha and Khalil-Pasha, the combat capabilities of the Armenian political organizations in Baku were weighty. It was they who organized the repulse of the Caucasian Tatars in 1905; constituted the strike force of the Baku Council and the CPC, headed by Stepan Shaumyan; were able to suppress the Mousafat mutiny in March 1918 in Ganja, initiated by the Turks in order to assess the fighting capabilities of the government of S.G. Shaumyana; were the main defense force of Baku for the Centro-Caspian Dictatorship government in August-September 1918. Over the years, Armenian military units under the leadership of Hamazasp, Tatevos Amirov, the Lalayan brothers, G. Balayan (ARFD) acted in Baku. Their combined numbers reached 18000 people, of which 6000 was a fighting group of Dashnaks.

So which of us is an "amateur" and which of us should be "ashamed of deception"?

[xent]

Where was it in Yerevan ??? Do not tell people Paul ... it's in Baku !!!

[Pavel Gusterin]

Do not play in public: it is a sign of failure in a dispute.

Baku or Yerevan doesn’t change the essence: the Armenians had only Dashnak troops, and they didn’t have any army, which is confirmed by the material you provided to me.

[xent]

TURKISH-ARMENIAN WAR OF 1920

TURKISH-ARMENIAN WARRIOR 1920, the aggressive war of Kemalist Turkey against the Republic of Armenia. In the spring of 1920, Turkey was ready to launch an invasion of Armenia, but the position of Soviet Russia, which considered the war against Armenia undesirable and expressed its readiness to mediate, prevented the war. In the summer of 1920, the government of Soviet Russia, negotiating, on the one hand, with the delegation of the Republic of Armenia headed by L. Shant (see Shant's mission), and, on the other, with the Kemalist delegation headed by Bekir Sami (see Moscow First Russian -Turkish Conference 1920), striving to reach an agreement between the parties, put forward the principle of an ethnographic border, which, however, was not successful. The Turkish delegation persistently insisted on the necessity of a campaign against Armenia, citing the fact that if no connection was established through Nakhichevan with Azerbaijan and the Red Army there, then the death of the national movement in Turkey was supposedly inevitable. Bekir Sami demanded at least the verbal consent of Soviet Russia to engage in the establishment of this connection between Sarikamysh and Shakhtakhti.

[Pavel Gusterin]

Where is the Armenian army here?

[xent]

In the second half of August, the Soviet government gave its consent - provided that the Turks did not advance beyond this line. The Kemalists did a great job of preparing diplomatic ground for an attack on Armenia. Armenian and Turkish sources provide various data on the start date of the war; some of them indicate September 21, others - September 22, 23, 24, etc. The reason for this is that Turkey did not officially declare war on Armenia; moreover, the state of war actually existed from June 1920, when serious border conflicts began, in particular in the Alti region, in which part of the regular troops took part on both sides. These clashes, as well as the unrest in the Muslim regions of Armenia, were inspired by the Kemalists, who sought to increase tension, have reason to intervene and, in case of war, blame the Armenians. The balance of power was entirely in Turkey's favor. The number of Armenian troops operating against the Turks in the Kars-Aleksandropolsky and Surmalinsky sectors of the front was about 12 thousand foot soldiers and 1500 horsemen. Turkey concentrated here 5 infantry divisions (over 22500 people), an equestrian brigade, two cavalry regiments, a separate Kurdish equestrian unit, a horse Lezgi detachment (in total - over 3300 horsemen); in addition, numerous irregular groups of local Turks and Kurds (5-6 thousand people) participated in the hostilities. The Turkish-Armenian war of 1920 is divided into three periods. In the first period - until the end of September - success was completely on the side of the Turkish army. Possessing significant superiority of forces in the main areas of the offensive, the Turkish troops managed to break the resistance of the Armenian forces and occupy Sarikamysh (September 29) and Merdenek (September 30). However, then the Turkish offensive was suspended, and until October 28, battles were fought on approximately the same line. In the second period, Armenian forces launched a counterattack on October 14, which was unsuccessful. After this failure, desertion from the ranks of the Armenian army took on a wide scale. This was facilitated by the rumors circulating about the Turkish-Soviet Union, the campaign conducted by the Turkish emissaries regarding the fact that the Turks were fighting not against the Armenian people, but against the Dashnaks, etc. The decadent mood in the army and among the population was greatly facilitated by the awareness of the abandonment of Armenia.

[Pavel Gusterin]

And where is the Armenian army?

The number of Armenian troops operating against the Turks on Kars-Alyoksandropol and Surmalinsky front, was about 12 thousand infantrymen and 1500 riders.

What kind of troops are these? Where is their structure? Where is their main command?

[xent]

As early as September 28, the Government of the Republic of Armenia appealed to the Entente powers for help. On October 8, the Armenian government appealed to all civilized humanity, urging not to leave the Armenian people alone at this fateful moment. But civilized Europe, this time too, was deaf to the moaning of the Armenian people. In October, Soviet Russia made no serious attempts to intervene in the events; the Turkish entry to the Sarikamysh-Shakhtakhti line did not inspire concern. In the third period (October 28 — November 18), the Turkish army achieved new success. Starting a general offensive, Turkish troops captured Kars on October 30. After the fall of Kars, the retreat of the Armenian army took on a chaotic character, and Turkish troops began to approach Arpachay (Akhuryan). On November 3, the Armenian government decided to offer a truce to the Turkish side. On November 7, an agreement was reached and the fire was ceased. Under the terms of the ceasefire, Armenian troops were to be withdrawn from the West Bank of Arpachai, the Turks occupied the station and the fortress of Alexandropol. But after fulfilling these conditions, on November 9 in Yerevan new, more difficult conditions for the Turkish government were received, equivalent to the demand for surrender. Armenian troops were supposed to move east from the Alagyaz-Kirmzli-Kulidzhan-Nalband-Vorontsovka station line, a large amount of weapons had to be delivered to the Turks, wagons and steam locomotives were handed over, etc. On November 11, an emergency meeting of the Armenian parliament rejected these demands and decided to turn to Soviet Russia with a request for mediation. On November 11, hostilities resumed, but the outcome of the war was a foregone conclusion. The Armenian troops did not want to fight, desertion acquired enormous proportions. In the evening of November 15, the Armenian government decided to agree to Turkish conditions, on November 16 sent its representative to Alexandropol, who handed the decision of the Karabekir government to Pasha. On November 18, conditions of armistice were signed in Alexandropol. On November 25, a peace conference began (see the Alexandropol Conference of 1920), which culminated in the signing of a treaty on December 2 (see the Alexandropol Treaty of 1920).

[Pavel Gusterin]

After the fall of Kars, the retreat of the Armenian army became disorderly.

An army, if it is an army, does not have a disorderly retreat.

[xent]

wow even if it was in 1941 .... there were also dashnaks there !!!

[Pavel Gusterin]

Please see an example erratic retreats in 1941

[Nagaibak]

Xent "On November 11, hostilities resumed, but the outcome of the war was a foregone conclusion. The Armenian troops did not want to fight, desertion became enormous. On the evening of November 15, the Armenian government decided to agree to the Turkish conditions.
What is it all about? You refused to fight for your lands, deserted. And let the Red Army fight.))) Therefore, Lenin also gave your land to the Turks. He did not need another protracted war. Well, even though the Turks, thanks to the same Lenin, the Alexandropol district was returned in 1921. And so the territory of Armenia would be even smaller. Thanks to Soviet delirium, you gained statehood, a republic that the Turks could not encroach on. And from which your independence has come. Do not you reproach the same Lenin.)))

[xent]

Map showing the situation in 1920

[Pavel Gusterin]

You yourself provided me with material in which I found information that refutes your point of view.

[xent]

Sorry, Paul, but I'm not distorting historical facts. That which is true is true, but there is a lot of distortion in your article, so after that, study everything comprehensively. I have given you what is true, and not what you just want to write. And if after all this the army unit of the Dashnak troops remains for you, then I’m sorry I won’t argue with you anymore, since it’s not possible to distinguish who is from the outside !!!

[Pavel Gusterin]

And what's your point to argue? I have already proved to you with the help of your material that I am right.

I do not know about you, but I was very interested.

[xent]

You couldn’t prove anything to me ...

[Pavel Gusterin]

Please read again the quotations that I gave you from the material that you yourself gave me. And if you again do not understand, please read again ...

[xent]

Order on the secondment of Lieutenant O. Khan-Kotursky (Hovhannisyan)
to the General Staff of the Military Department of Armenia (07.08.1918/XNUMX/XNUMX)

[Pavel Gusterin]

Pan Ataman Gritian Tavrichesky from the movie "Wedding in Malinovka" also gave such orders.

[xent]

extract from the decree of the Government of 08.05.1920 on allocation to the department
intelligence and counterintelligence of the General Staff of the VM of RA 657 thousand rubles for expenses for the month of May

[Pavel Gusterin]

This is not an army.

[xent]

Extract: staff of the General Staff of the Ministry of War (1919-1920)

[Pavel Gusterin]

There are generally solid scribes. Army writers?

[xent]

Sorry, Pavel, but I don’t even read the title of the document ...

[Pavel Gusterin]

First, the General Headquarters may be at the army, and not at the Ministry of War.

Secondly, I asked you about the structure of the army, the existence of which you are trying to prove.

The above document confirms that there was no Armenian army, judging by its name.

[xent]

Extract from the Decree of the Government of the Republic of Armenia dated August 13, 1918
on the allocation of funds for intelligence and counterintelligence

[Pavel Gusterin]

And this is not an army.

You continue to drive yourself into a corner, as with the material that you yourself gave me, and with the help of which I showed that I was right.

[xent]

The first regular armed forces of Armenia arose during the formation in 1918 of the first Armenian Republic (1918-1920). The Armenian government then managed to deploy an army with a total number of about 40 thousand people. Its officer corps consisted of Armenian and Russian officers of the former tsarist army. The weapons and equipment were partially supplied by Great Britain, and the rest came from the troops of the Russian Caucasian Front that had ceased to exist. In particular, according to the testimony of the former general of the Russian army Andranik Ozanyan, the Russian army on the Caucasian front left about 3000 cannons, 1 billion rounds, 1 million bombs, 100 thousand rifles, 15-17 thousand horses, cars, etc. 1

Almost the entire period of the existence of the first Armenian Republic (1918-1920), its army participated in wars:

with Turkey (May-June 1918 and September-December 1920; as a result, the Armenians lost a significant part of their territory and up to 198 thousand people were killed);
with Georgia (December 1918);
with the Musavat Azerbaijan (war against the "Arak Republic" proclaimed in Nakhichevan by the Azerbaijanis and the troops of the Musavat Azerbaijan who came to their aid (May-August 1918);
the second Armenian-Azerbaijani war that swept the Nakhichevan district, Nagorno-Karabakh, Zangezur and Ganja districts (March-April 1920);
with the RSFSR and Soviet Azerbaijan? jan (in Nagorno-Karabakh - June 1920).
The formation of the Armenian army continued until the Sovietization of Armenia.

http://www.kavkaz-uzel.ru/articles/232164/

[Pavel Gusterin]

The formation of the Armenian army continued until the Sovietization of Armenia.

Well, so what was formed? I asked you about the structure of the army, its main command. I myself already tell you what arguments need to be given, and all the time you are moving away from the answers. Do they even have these answers?

[xent]

It was decided to establish the orders of the Republic of Armeria - "For Merit to the Homeland" and "Vardan Zoravar", national holidays were determined - both Armenian, Russian and Muslim.
The government and parliament paid special attention to the reorganization and strengthening of the national army, which in the spring of 1919. already liberated the Kars region and Gavar Nakhichevan (Nakhichevan). The territory of the Republic of Armenia has reached 70 thousand square meters. km In 1920, the army of the republic consisted of four infantry and one cavalry brigades with twelve regiments, artillery batteries, machine gun and aviation teams, two armored trains. About 40 thousand soldiers and officers, more than 20 generals served in the army. The armament was mainly English and Russian. There were workshops for the production of cartridges and repair of equipment. Great help was provided by the volunteer armies of southern Russia.

http://www.fedayi.ru/st_01_005.php

[Pavel Gusterin]

Pan Ataman Gritian Tavrichesky, according to him, also had "a whole division." You can write anything on the Internet. I asked you for links to the archive, which you yourself named, or to printed materials.

[Robert Nevsky]

It was interesting to read, thanks to the author!

[xent]

Dear Pavel, I am 99% sure that you are one of those who make the order, you say there are no facts, there are no links to printing documents ... sorry, but anyone who reads my comments will see both facts and links and about army command, if you are very interested in the name of the army commander, then this is Lieutenant General Tovmas Nazarbekyan, military ministers at different times were different people, the last was Drastamat Kanayan - Dro, who even after the Sovietization of Armenia under the agreement that was signed on December 2, 1920 years with the representative of the RSFSR Legrand, he was appointed military commissar of Soviet Armenia. After the Transcaucasian Sejm, Armenia was the only republic that had an air fleet. Well, why do not you need to tell all this, since I already understand that your goal is not true, your goal is a distortion of history ... we wrote so many comments about only one thing - did the first republic of Armenia have an army or it was Dashnak detachments, but that’s only one distortion in your article ... Let's just quietly and silently move away from all this; readers are empty, of course, if they have enough nerves to read our comments, they will draw their conclusions. Sorry of course, but I could never think that a professional (I think you are professionally engaged in history) can be so shortsighted !!!

[Pavel Gusterin]

Well, name, what you in my article still found distortions. I do not bother you.

Everything that you cited as your evidence just refutes your assertions about some Armenian army in 1920. I call a spade a spade: it was just Dashnak troops, which is what the material you tell me themselves provided. That is, you caught yourself.

I already told you that you are playing in public, which means that you have no arguments.

You throw accusations only because your opponent does not want to recognize your arguments as serious and worthy of attention. And you simply have no other arguments.

PS: "air fleet" and suddenly "indiscriminate retreat". Aren't you funny yourself?

[Pavel Gusterin]

That's all the "distortion" :)