Military Review

Bolshevik Nikolai Romanov (?!), Or the historical inevitability of October

82
One of the most popular historical categories of our liberal or patriotic intelligentsia - "if only."

Had revolution not happened in 1917? How much bread would be sold abroad, when the Russian flag would be hoisted over Constantinople, what benefits would they get from dividing defeated Germany, how many territories would they get, how many people would they save? In general, "if it were not for the Bolsheviks ..."

However, almost no one wants to go in this "if" to the end.

After all, even in the case of victory in the First World War (although it is hard to believe in the amicable agreement on the division of the world between the countries of the Consent), the Russian monarchy would still have to solve its own age-old problems, the main of which is blatant technological backwardness. It is obvious that the winners of Germany - England, France, the USA and, let us make an assumption, Russia - instantly, due to geopolitical contradictions, would converge in a deadly fight. Already among themselves. Such is the reinforced logic of imperialism. By the way, this will happen a bit later with other winners of Germany - the USSR and the USA. Just a year after the capture of Berlin from the alliance, they will move to a war of annihilation.

So, according to our “if” scenario, did Russia have to do this? Russian winner?

Right. She, a country with a peasant, on 90% uneducated population, would have to pursue a rapid catch-up industrialization. Of course, nobody would have given time for such a jerk. In general, the greatest folly is the words spoken by Stolypin once about “twenty years of external and internal peace.” It is as if the boxer, wedged into a corner of the ring, suddenly began to talk about "twenty minutes of rest." For such a rant, as a rule, should be a hard knockout.

And how could the victorious Russia conduct super-fast military industrialization? Perhaps, by old habit, it would attract foreign (read, French, English) capital? Maybe Nobels, Rothschilds, Ryabushinsky and Mamontovs would have thrown in the blink of an eye to pump oil from Baku or drive ore from the Urals abroad for the sake of building new enterprises of high redistribution, where such an attractive salary would be set so that an agrarian Russia would rush to move to cities? Or maybe the Sovereign would have made a willful decision and transferred the lands belonging to the royal family and the church to public use, and large peasant farms capable of feeding millions of armies of new, happy workers would start growing on these lands? Well, and plus, it would be where, not tangling in a strip line, to arrange small things different - energy there, metallurgy, military-industrial complex, aviation industry?

And was it possible to carry out this grandiose plan without the establishment of a central planning body - simply put, the State Planning Commission? Was it possible to do this without nullifying the gigantic foreign debts that Russia had before the Entente powers (as we know from the following story, even for the unfortunate lend-lease good-natured Americans demanded immediate and full payment).

But in that case, as it seems to you, would not the Sovereign accidentally have to overcome the bitter resistance of his own environment? In this case, would the Emperor manage without tough repression, without speedy proceedings and a merciless fight against "enemies of the monarchy"? And without the propaganda mobilization of loose, like the French bun, salon society, shrouded in decadence hippies and Merezhkovsky? And without a total fight against drunkenness and morphinism?

An interesting result is “if”, agree.

To summarize To resist the grand battle of the imperialist powers, Nikolai Alexandrovich Romanov would probably have to at least turn into a ... Bolshevik for a while. For the time being, we leave aside the question of which state would have turned out socialist or proto-fascist; For simplicity, we exclude any misfortunes that may arise in the way of the tsar-industrializer, such as the Bombs of the People or the derailed train. Let's just look again at the photo of this person and ask ourselves honestly and frankly: was Nikolai Aleksandrovich able to do something similar? Let's look at the photographs of the royal relatives who were available and ask ourselves: were there at least one of these people capable of something similar? If you said “no”, this is about the same thing as Nikolai Aleksandrovich’s contemporaries thought. Regardless of their ideological or party orientation.

Bolshevik from Nikolai Alexandrovich failed. The result was the February revolution. The awkward attempt of those who did not want to part with their “assets”, but who understood the whole alignment of oligarchs and generals to intercept the weakening administrative reins. This idiotic attempt ended with a total collapse of the front, transport and industry. The reins collapsed in the bloody mud of disorganization, decay and anarchy.

In October, the 1917 of this icy mud (to the incredible surprise of the British, French, Americans and Germans) was raised by a group of fanatics mobilized by the idea. In a short time, she did, in general, what Nikolai Aleksandrovich did not want or couldn’t do — stopped the disintegration of the state, conducted industrialization and replaced the aristocratic version of autocracy by autocracy (that is, dictatorship) of the proletariat ( people). Thus, Lev Davidovich Bronstein, who stigmatized the Stalinist USSR for betraying the ideas of the revolution, was still wrong. The true Thermidor happened in Russia not in 1937, but in 1917, with his own, Bronstein, participation.
Author:
Originator:
http://www.odnako.org/blogs/bolshevik-nikolay-romanov-ili-ob-istoricheskoy-neizbezhnosti-oktyabrya/
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  1. Giant thought
    Giant thought 8 November 2014 18: 37
    +13
    What happened has happened, and now Russia, having risen, has become one of the world leaders.
    1. Civil
      Civil 8 November 2014 18: 50
      +16
      The following happened:
      1. Society and the state have decayed. 86% of the uneducated population is an indicator of this.
      2. The Russian Empire lost the second war in a row - Russian-Japanese, 1st World War.
      3. Since then, little has changed - the elites still do not want to communicate with the population, even the top Communists separated from Soviet society, and in those years this role (in the collapse of Russia) was played by the nobility - which, by a strange coincidence of circumstances, also taught its children to West.
      1. DRA-88
        DRA-88 8 November 2014 19: 09
        +35
        Here is what Stalin writes about wars:
        The present war is an imperialist war. Her main goal is
        capture (annexation) of alien, mainly agricultural, territories
        capitalistically developed states. The latter need new markets,
        convenient paths to these markets, raw materials, mineral wealth, and they try
        to take them everywhere, regardless of the internal orders of the captured country.
        ("On the War" vol. 3, page 5.)
        1. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A 9 November 2014 00: 51
          +8
          Quote: DRA-88
          The latter need new markets,
          convenient paths to these markets, raw materials, mineral wealth, and they try
          to take them everywhere, regardless of the internal orders of the captured country.

          Almost a century has passed, and how fresh and accurate it looks! There is still - "But to tear off the mask from the imperialists, to reveal in the eyes of the masses the real background of the current war - this is exactly what it means to declare a real war on the war, to make the current war impossible." This, in my opinion, in relation to today and today's aggressor, to win the information war. So where are our battalions of writers, regiments of filming, divisions of speaking? Roughly speaking, Kiselev, Soloviev and Zeynalova are fighting. Well, a dozen more in the reserve of the VK rate. And where are the information troops, heavy information weapons? RT got lost somewhere among hundreds of buttons. Who in America needs RT if CNN tells them everything from Psaki's words? Yes, and we have different "Yehu" in this context, look like outright saboteurs, the enemy's zaslanets. According to their laws, wartime ...
          1. Userpic
            Userpic 9 November 2014 00: 57
            +3
            Quote: Zoldat_A
            RT somewhere lost among hundreds of buttons

            That is not - here it is laughing
      2. DRA-88
        DRA-88 8 November 2014 19: 13
        +25
        Here is another quote from I.V. Stalin almost 100 years ago!
        Find 3 differences from the present!


        The authorities ... are interested in "peace and quiet" in the oil kingdom,
        not to mention that so many of the members of the government are
        shareholders of major oil companies that taxes on the oil industry
        make up one of the most important revenue items of the state budget, which
        Baku fuel oil feeds the "domestic industry", and therefore the slightest
        a hitch in the oil industry is necessarily reflected in the state
        industry of Russia.
        ("Meeting and workers" v.2 p.136.)

        Oil prices, contrary to the cries of oil producers, are not falling, but
        remain old, because the average price for the year is the same. What in the past
        year ... And blessed wells now and then burst forth fountains, rewarding
        oil industry rain of oil.
        In a word, the "affairs" of the oil owners are getting better.
        ("Letters from the Caucasus" v.2 p.174.)
        1. shasherin_pavel
          shasherin_pavel 8 November 2014 21: 15
          -4
          If the years to which the foregoing relates were still indicated. Old expressions are not always easy to understand:
          Quote: DRA-88
          irrespective of the internal orders of the captured country.
          , WITHOUT RELATIVE? I wear = "weigh", sometimes as "I listen, I hear." WEAR = ascend, ascend. Someone translated the text into a modern language - post-revolutionary, without thinking about what was said.
          Apparently it should sound like:
          "Without a balanced approach to the internal (order) conditions of the occupied territories."
          Quote: DRA-88
          necessarily reflected in the state of industry in Russia.

          NEEDED? It would seem that the meaning of the word is clear .., but to understand it to the end you need to know that "Bypass" means everyday life, need, and the word "Daily" = Income.
          To get a meaning in the sentence, it is necessary, apparently, to choose a single meaning: "without any need for that, it is reflected in the state of Russian industry."
          Quote: DRA-88
          whereby the slightest hitch in the oil industry
          without any need for that, is reflected in the state of industry in Russia. "
          And here it is appropriate to recall the history of Germany after the First World War, when the banker Schacht, who became the CEO of a state bank in order to defeat inflation, created a new "Provisional Reichsmark" which he tied to the mortgage of all German property, and not to the floating price of oil. When it came time to create a permanent Reichsmark, Germany's currency grew stronger, but Hitler's militaristic manners nearly killed it. But Schacht again found a way out: he, especially for the military industry, created promissory notes that were obligatory for the entire military industry, but did not circulate in the country's economy, and even more so abroad. Bills of exchange were not present in any reports and no one had, outside Germany, even an idea of ​​Germany's expenditures on armaments. This is what "Must be reflected" can mean.
          1. DRA-88
            DRA-88 8 November 2014 22: 26
            +2
            Quote: shasherin_pavel
            WITHOUT RELATIVE?

            I mean despite the socio-political system of the state
            Quote: shasherin_pavel
            REQUIRED?

            necessarily!, hereinafter
          2. sled beach
            sled beach 9 November 2014 00: 43
            0
            Household = Income = expense
        2. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A 9 November 2014 16: 20
          +3
          Quote: DRA-88
          Find 3 differences from the present!

          Stunned! Whatever the Volkogonov-Medvedev-Solzhenitsyn wrote about IW - a great man! And it doesn't matter whether he wrote it all himself or whether the speechwriters were in advance. Thousands of people also worked at the Gagarinsky start (site No. 1). Gagarin flew. So here too - it was written 100 years ago, signed "Stalin", but it is actual as if it was written yesterday. I downloaded all 18 volumes.
      3. Interface
        Interface 8 November 2014 19: 16
        +15
        even the top Communists separated from Soviet society, and in those years this role (in the collapse of Russia) was played by the nobility - which, by a strange coincidence of circumstances, also taught its children in the West.


        Well, on Topvar, they finally decided to devote the Great October Revolution to a small article such as a piece of toilet paper.

        All with the past, health, good luck, happiness.

        But from this the content of the article does not become less relevant, thanks to the author for remembering November 7.

        The nomenclature and the nobility had a significant difference: it was not hereditary + the system did not even allow members of the Politburo to simply build palaces for themselves and keep paper in foreign banks.

        Not even clean at the hands of Schelokov, the Minister of Internal Affairs would never have thought that you could borrow money not in your own Soviet bank, but in CreditSuisse, for example ...
        1. bda
          bda 8 November 2014 22: 12
          +1
          Interface


          Well, on Topvar, they finally decided to devote the Great October Revolution to a small article such as a piece of toilet paper.

          In general, this is a reprint from the resource "However" for November 7 this year. (http://www.odnako.org/blogs/bolshevik-nikolay-romanov-ili-ob-istoricheskoy-neiz
          bezhnosti-oktyabrya /) - to see someone really wants to instill in everyone the idea that "everything is going as it should go, and therefore there is nothing to twitch."
      4. Aleksey_K
        Aleksey_K 8 November 2014 21: 30
        +1
        Quote: Civil
        the nobility - which, by a strange coincidence of circumstances, its children also taught in the West.

        If you want to speak, understand and know someone else’s culture, then you need to live and study in that country for several years. It’s just that before, children and parents didn’t leave for a foreign land forever. Only if the sovereign persecution forced to live abroad.
    2. varov14
      varov14 8 November 2014 18: 58
      +11
      Article 100 pluses, it’s a pity that there are no groups of fanatics mobilized by the idea of ​​reviving Russia on the horizon.
      1. saag
        saag 8 November 2014 19: 03
        +9
        Quote: varov14
        there is no group of fanatics mobilized by the idea of ​​the revival of Russia.

        Yes, they don’t move the idea to the masses, but they don’t exist.
        1. shasherin_pavel
          shasherin_pavel 8 November 2014 21: 25
          +1
          "Real" smart "few, so there are no leaders"
          1. Cenij150814
            Cenij150814 8 November 2014 21: 35
            +2
            Quote: shasherin_pavel
            "Real" smart "few, so there are no leaders"

            Or maybe the majority of the people are so "stupid" that everyone will not even notice his (leader) arrival !?
            1. bda
              bda 8 November 2014 22: 19
              +1
              Cenij150814 (2) SU Today, 21:35 ↑

              Quote: shasherin_pavel
              "Real" smart "few, so there are no leaders"

              Or maybe the majority of the people are so "stupid" that everyone will not even notice his (leader) arrival !?

              Sounds like "Song of the next unnoticed leader."

              As one comic character said in some old French play: "Actually, I'm all so great in all respects, only no one notices this greatness of mine!"
              1. Cenij150814
                Cenij150814 8 November 2014 22: 28
                0
                Quote: bda

                Sounds like "Song of the next unnoticed leader."

                As one comic character in some old French play said:

                Citizen Karabas Barabas, I can’t imagine what it sounds like! I can give advice, go to the ENT specialist!
                1. bda
                  bda 8 November 2014 22: 57
                  +1
                  For a certain citizen Cenij150814:
                  Walk your own paths, dear.
        2. bda
          bda 8 November 2014 21: 48
          +4
          Author:
          In October, the 1917 of this icy mud (to the incredible surprise of the British, French, Americans and Germans) was raised by a group of fanatics mobilized by the idea. In a short time, she did, in general, what Nikolai Aleksandrovich did not want or couldn’t do — stopped the disintegration of the state, conducted industrialization and replaced the aristocratic version of autocracy by autocracy (that is, dictatorship) of the proletariat ( people). Thus, Lev Davidovich Bronstein, who stigmatized the Stalinist USSR for betraying the ideas of the revolution, was still wrong. The true Thermidor happened in Russia not in 1937, but in 1917, with his own, Bronstein, participation.

          Firstly, the fact that the Bolsheviks were an "incredible surprise" for the British and the Germans is a good anecdote in the style of Petrosyan - they themselves nursed them, and then were surprised!
          Secondly, Lev Davidovich Bronstein condemned the Stalinist USSR quite rightly (from his point of view - from the point of view of the American-British fosterling) - in 1937, with the completion of the process of destruction of the Lenin-Sverdlovsk-Trotskyist "Bolshevik guard" in our country, the last a nail in the coffin of the "revolution" that began in February 1917, which turned Russia into a raw material appendage of Western countries (one has only to look at the materials on the terms under which the same Comrade Bronstein gave our natural resources to the Americans and the British in the early 20s years - ten times cheaper than the "rotten tsarist regime" took from Western partners).
          In 1917 they tried to destroy our country, and at the end of 1937 it became clear: the plan of the Bronsteins and other Shvonders failed - the country did not want to be destroyed, but on the contrary, turned their scenario back, regained its "place in the Sun", put its resources on serving oneself and one's people, and not the Western concessionaires, and then, having beaten off the West's attempt to punish us for "unwillingness to be destroyed" in the Great War, she became a superpower.
          This is exactly what those who tried to take Russia into their hands at first in 1917, then in 1941, do not forgive us, and now they are doing it now.

          That comrade. JV Stalin, who finished off the "revolutionary reptile" in 1937, was a much more "effective manager" than the last emperor Nikolai Alexandrovich, who was killed by order of Sverdlov - few have doubts about this, but in the end it turns out that about The 30 million lives that Russia lost in the Civil War and the famine-cold that followed it - she, in the end, lost only to ... return in 1941 to ... 1914 and ... again to rank of the Great Empire to rush into the crucible of the World War with the same opponents and the same "allies", and ... almost the same catastrophic losses?
          So why then was all the fuss ?! - in order to first ban epaulettes in our army, and then reintroduce them !?

          Maybe it's time to break out of this "vicious circle" - to stop pleasing the world with your bloody troubles, and civil strife, and get down to business: to put things in our house the way we like and live in it according to our own understanding, and not like someone there considers it "ghostly communist", "politically correct", "tolerant", etc.!
          We will not show weakness - and there will be no one who wants to get into our house.
          1. Userpic
            Userpic 8 November 2014 22: 19
            +1
            Quote: bda
            themselves fed them, and then were surprised
            What are you talking about?

            in 1937, with the completion of the process of destruction of the Lenin-Sverdlovsk-Trotskyist "Bolshevik guard"
            Is Menshevik Trotsky the Leninist Guard? belay

            JV Stalin, who finished off the "revolutionary reptile"
            belay
            “The victory of socialism in one country is not an end in itself, but a means for developing and supporting the revolution in other countries”
            1. bda
              bda 8 November 2014 23: 40
              +3
              Userpic
              “What are you talking about?”
              “Is Menshevik Trotsky a Leninist guard?”

              At first I can say, with all due respect: "Oh that one."
              For the second, I propose to fly to the capital city of Mexico City next weekend. There, in the beautiful area of ​​Coyoacan (long favored by local bohemians) there is a mansion belonging to the Bronstein family - the House-Museum of Comrade Trotsky is a place of pilgrimage for Trotskyists from all over the world. Just go there (in this museum) to any comrade. Trotskyist and ask this question. If something goes wrong, then, as experts say, it is better to break through "to the north" - to the San Rafael area - there at the monument to the Mexican Revolution (a steam locomotive is an analogue of our cruiser Aurora) local Maoists always hang out - they do not like Trotskyists very much and they agree that Comrade Trotsky is not quite, so to speak, a good man from the point of view of revolutionary spirit.
              And about the third, excuse me, in the same Mexico (where later Comrade Trotsky, guarded by a platoon of American bodyguards and hid unsuccessfully from the "long arms" of Comrade IV Stalin), there was also a revolution in 1917 (what a coincidence !!! ) - in a very revolutionary way they overthrew the industrialization dictator P. Dias. Only there was no one to finish off (that is, "support") this revolution - they did not find their own comrade. I.V. Stalin. That is why it developed "according to plan" and its finale was that the richest country in the region in terms of its resources, inhabited by a talented people, turned into a 100% raw material appendage + the backyard of the United States - at every convenient intersection and to this day, hungry children are asking for bread ... And the party that came to power after the 1917 revolution (a little later took the name "Institutional Revolutionary Party" and joined the Socialist International) has been in power there to this day (with some deviation from absolute power in 2000-2012, when, having a majority in Congress, she nevertheless yielded the presidency to her almost opponent, the National Action Party (from the Democratic International).
              1. Userpic
                Userpic 9 November 2014 00: 30
                +1
                Quote: bda
                Op the same
                And refer, go, to Sisson will be? laughing

                For the second, I suggest flying to the capital city of Mexico City for the coming weekend
                I recommend google on topics - when Bronstein joined Ulyanov / when Dzhugashvili joined Ulyanov.

                "So Trotsky! Always equal to himself - wags, cheats, poses like a left, helps the right. It unites all those who cherish and love ideological decay, group all the enemies of Marxism."
                V.I. Lenin (from a letter by I. Armand. Vol. 20 p. 46)

                also in 1917 there was a revolution
                Bourgeois - similar to February.

          2. Per se.
            Per se. 8 November 2014 22: 50
            +3
            Quote: bda
            So why then was all the fuss ?! - in order to first ban epaulettes in our army, and then reintroduce them !?
            Shoulder straps, dear Dmitry, this is politics, the Red Army should at first be somehow different from those who were its "gold-driven" enemy in the Civil. And the "fuss" was worth it, I will try to explain "from my bell tower" why. When the tsar-father faint-heartedly abdicated the throne at the most inopportune moment, and even members of the tsarist family forced, wearing red bows, under the euphoria of the February Revolution, what awaited Russia with its very Provisional Government? Reparations from defeated Germany, captured Constantinople, rapid growth of the post-war economy? Yes, the devil is bald! Even if we do not take into account the pre-war and military debts of Russia, the enormous social tension in society, Kerensky (or someone instead of him) would have become a likeness of Gorbachev or Yeltsin, as would then have been the Chubais, Gaidars and others, which would have created a "democratic" collapse countries not in 1991, but much earlier, already in the 20s, would have fallen under the United States and England, and, moreover, without the safety margin (including nuclear weapons) that Russia had left from the USSR. The Bolsheviks saved Russia, revived it as a superpower, had it not been for this, England and the United States would have ended up with backward capitalist Russia, if not by the hands of Hitler they had fed, then later by nuclear blackmail or a debt hole. "We will not show weakness - and there will be no people willing to climb into our house," for this we need to be different from the capitalists, have different morals and other values, otherwise there will be those who are ready to sell our house to the enemies for their selfish interests.
            1. bda
              bda 9 November 2014 00: 44
              +1
              Per se.
              The Bolsheviks saved Russia, revived it as a superpower, had it not been for this, backward capitalist Russia, England and the United States would have ended if not the hands of Hitler, who had been nourished by them, then later nuclear blackmail or a debt hole.

              I agree with you on all 100!
              And I agree even more:
              must something different from the capitalists, have different morality and other valuablesOtherwise, there are those who are ready to sell our house to enemies for their selfish interests

              My above-mentioned long and mournful opus only drew attention to the fact that "Bolsheviks-Bolsheviks are different" (as well as "communists-communists" and "great-communists" - as in the film about Chapaev) - even though our official history of the CPSU is denied, blaming all the contradictions visible with the naked eye on the "Mensheviks", then on the "cult of personality", then on "voluntarism."
              Those who overthrew the monarchy in 1917 and brewed the bloody mess of the Civil War (mixed with the same Mensheviks, Socialist-Revolutionaries, Anarchists, Trudoviks, nationalists from the national suburbs, Cadets, Progressives and others) are alone.
              And those who, in the 30s, shooting all this rabble with one hand, carried out industrialization with the other, and then in the 40s led the people to Victory, incl. and returning back shoulder straps, opening churches, minting orders in honor of Nevsky, Kutuzov, Suvorov, Ushakov - these are already others. This is already the result of what we now call "elite change". Then this change was paid for at the cost of about 30 million lives - the country had to lose so much to become great again after, first of all, internal (!!!) troubles. My opinion may be controversial, but it consists in the fact that this price is prohibitive - internal problems need and can be solved at not such prices. And to say that "that option" was the only possible, and therefore correct, is simply a sin.

              It is a sin when a peasant girl, who is not guilty of anything, warms her body in cold weather with her body ... slops carried out from the zone to eat at least that (from the memoirs of I.L. Solonevich).

              It is a sin when, on the remark of the red commander, Comrade. GI Kotovsky: "Why don't you send the brigade machine guns - everyone will die to no avail" one of the assistants to the Chairman of the Revolutionary Military Council of the RSFSR comrade. Trotsky replied: "Yes, there are only peasants in the brigade. The peasants are generally a class of small proprietors - the more they get here now, the easier it will be for us to build socialism tomorrow" (Comrade GI Kotovsky then almost killed this "theoretician" saber, but ... and him - G.I. Kotovsky - was found by a strange death in 1925, as well as his old elder friend - M.V. Frunze - also with representatives of the "Leninist Guard" not in great friendship with the former - although before until now they are trying to "blame" these deaths on JV Stalin).

              Our great writers M.A.Bulgakov in The White Guard, and M.V.Sholokhov in The Quiet Don, in different words, in different episodes, but one very correct, in my humble opinion, thought about all this is drawn: those who honestly fought for Russia in that (Civil) War are holy people (they were white, red, striped - not the point - the main thing is that with a pure heart, not selfishness for the sake of and without fanaticism towards the defenseless), but those who he started this bloody nightmare, and even having a little thought of how to convert all this to the benefit of his beloved - may our Lord be so merciful to them that he will punish them with a terrible punishment during their lifetime, so that their sins can be washed off with their own blood and washed off a little.
              1. s1н7т
                s1н7т 9 November 2014 17: 06
                -1
                Quote: bda
                Those who in 1917 ... brewed the bloody mess of the Civil War

                Are you talking about whites, as I understand it? Light, in more detail, otherwise you might think that some Bolsheviks fought in Civil laughing
          3. Ermak
            Ermak 9 November 2014 12: 25
            0
            That comrade. JV Stalin, who finished off the "revolutionary reptile" in 1937, was a much more "effective manager" than the last emperor Nikolai Alexandrovich, who was killed by order of Sverdlov - few have doubts about this, but in the end it turns out that about The 30 million lives that Russia lost in the Civil War and the famine-cold that followed it - she, in the end, lost only to ... return in 1941 to ... 1914 and ... again to rank of the Great Empire to rush into the crucible of the World War with the same opponents and the same "allies", and ... almost the same catastrophic losses?


            Of course, I put a plus for the whole comment, I agree. But here is a comparison with the manager, it’s you, who somehow cut it low. Neither Stalin nor Nikolai 2 certainly flew so low. You have correctly mixed up the era.
          4. s1н7т
            s1н7т 9 November 2014 16: 55
            +1
            Bredyatina, Petrosyan is resting! Studied the history of Svanidze? laughing But someone taught to read and write. This man must be a monument! It seemed to me that a student should have at least a drop of the brain, but they already taught you! ... winked
      2. shasherin_pavel
        shasherin_pavel 8 November 2014 21: 22
        +2
        Quote: varov14
        no group

        Not a group, but one, but with a good idea of ​​transforming the economy and the necessary power for that. Tie the ruble to state property, not oil. A growing mortgage loan and an increase in housing construction would strengthen the ruble. But there is one big "BUT", the country's banks will no longer receive income from the resale of the ruble against the backdrop of a growing dollar. The dream of a Russian banker is constant inflation, which allows receiving income from buying and selling without producing anything.
      3. bda
        bda 8 November 2014 22: 06
        0
        varov1

        Article 100 pluses, it’s a pity that there are no groups of fanatics mobilized by the idea of ​​reviving Russia on the horizon.

        And who is stopping you personally from taking, and appearing on the horizon, having mobilized well to the surprise of Germans, British, Americans, and Hondurans at the same time ?!
      4. dyremar 66
        dyremar 66 8 November 2014 23: 39
        -5
        look at demographics under the tsar and under communoids, the commies halved Russia. If there hadn’t been a blow to the empire’s back from international Zionism in 17m-80, there would have been 300 million Russians according to the forecast of dm mendeleev
        1. Userpic
          Userpic 9 November 2014 00: 37
          +2
          Quote: dyremar 66 rus
          see demographics under the king and under communoids
          Demographic transition - historically fast fertility decline and mortality, as a result of which the reproduction of the population is reduced to a simple replacement of generations. This process is part of the transition from traditional society (which is characterized by high fertility and high mortality) to
          industrial
          .
        2. sled beach
          sled beach 9 November 2014 01: 00
          0
          Much, much more is good! Holy people live in China!
    3. Very old
      Very old 8 November 2014 19: 41
      +10
      And do not troll us; tell what before what happened
      Live today, build tomorrow with your brains and hands stop
      1. Bort radist
        Bort radist 9 November 2014 04: 58
        -1
        Quote: Very old
        And do not troll us; tell what before what happened

        If it weren’t for if and not, he would have been a general long ago.
    4. Sergei1982
      Sergei1982 9 November 2014 11: 02
      0
      I don’t think that if the empire survived, in a year the warrior of Russia against England or the USA would begin, as the author writes:
      Why didn’t they then crush the Bolsheviks during the years of civil war if Poland easily defeated the shock grouping of the Bolsheviks, if there were more than 10 mil. Soldiers in the Entente countries, one fleet of England was 5-6 times superior to the Russian fleet (most of the ships were white) , so if there were desires in 1918-1920 they would have easily defeated the armies led by Voroshilov, Budyon, etc.
    5. s1н7т
      s1н7т 9 November 2014 16: 36
      -1
      Quote: Thought Giant
      now Russia must

      Forgive everyone laughing
      How long have they "risen"? How was the USSR destroyed either after privatization, or after Chechnya, or in 2008, or when? I now look around and see, for example, how they closed the nearby aluminum production, neighbors have closed their subcontractors - the whole city is almost, in the shops of the city where I now live, 20% of the inscription is for sale. Or read the media - the head of the industry says that it is impossible to develop the industry: there are no new tech. solutions, no industrial capacity, no personnel. Guess he’s about the space industry? laughing Awesomely "lifted"! Before "rising" it is worth taking up the economy and industry. But in the cap. the country is engaged in a private trader, no? And he us-host on "world leaders" and on "rising", he fights for his grandmother. When we build socialism back, then we will rise, if NATO or the PRC do not devour us before.
  2. Finches
    Finches 8 November 2014 18: 46
    +11
    These fucking liberals were at the origin of all political upheavals in Russia throughout history! This stratum, all the time claiming the title of "conscience of the nation", was selling this very nation to the right and to the left! Gentlemen, liberals and hedgehogs with them, they know how to destroy and mock everything remarkably, but as soon as they get hold of power, it suddenly turns out that they are ordinary theoreticians, piz ... ly and do not know how to do anything! While this is being clarified, the country is rapidly sliding into complete ruin and civil war ...!
    1. Yarik
      Yarik 8 November 2014 19: 48
      +4
      Well, yes. There may be a question, which model of the state system would be preferable for Russia, monarchy (although it is doubtful under Nicholas), or socialism, but it is absolutely certain that liberals should never have been allowed to the "levers". wink
      1. s1н7т
        s1н7т 9 November 2014 17: 25
        -2
        Quote: Yarik
        The question is, what model of government for Russia would be preferable

        There is only one answer - socialism. It perfectly matches the mentality of our people.
  3. Denis fj
    Denis fj 8 November 2014 18: 48
    +21
    When trying to "compare" the incomparable, difficult questions always arise. Until mid-1917, practically no one knew about the Bolsheviks - some kind of party of dozens of parties and nothing more. The "Bolshechiks" carried on propaganda at the front - yeah now, 90 percent in Siberia, 9 - 10 percent abroad, 0,01 in the "underground" and "free", wake up gentlemen-comrades. In October, 25 Bolsheviks in the Soviet were rather a minority, all sorts of anarchists, Mensheviks, social ... you can't remember all, it's a mess. Where did the devastation come from? Did the Bolsheviks create? Reparations, all sorts of Dardanels, yeah - the villages and towns were cleaned from the peasants, the sea fell to the people, part of the territory has already been swept ... Bvnditism and any "independence" throughout Russia, civil - the Bolsheviks are to blame for letting go of their opponents on the honest word? How many of them were ideological? Somewhere 20-30 thousand according to the police in the middle of 1917. Everything had to start from scratch, and therefore compared with the last pre-war year (1913). By 1940-41, the country had only just begun to live - since 1945 they began almost from scratch, almost the entire European part of the country was destroyed, the villages were depopulated and this still reverberates. End of 50 the collapse of the village and industrial cooperation. The end of the 80s again almost from scratch, and human labor was turned into a mockery, who is not a "manager", a bandit, a show-mine, those "" and after that we are surprised - there is not enough specialists, workers. Who will pull the country out on their backs for the Abramovichs? Now the regional centers have just started to live better, but what about the "hinterland"? Have you ever wondered what it was all worth? The history and economics of aunt cannot be hard on them. Foreign countries will help us - yeah ...
    1. Civil
      Civil 8 November 2014 19: 04
      0
      Quote: denis fj
      Who will pull the country out on their backs for the Abramovichs? Now the regional centers have just started to live better, but what about the "hinterland"? Have you ever wondered what it was all worth? The history and economics of aunt cannot be hard on them. Foreign countries will help us - yeah ...

      So capitalism! The land of equal opportunities!
      1. shasherin_pavel
        shasherin_pavel 8 November 2014 21: 30
        +4
        Quote: Civil
        So capitalism! The land of equal opportunities!
        to deceive, we were given "Vouchers" which meant "two Volgas" at once, but limited the investment of these "Volgas" in time, created fake companies that began to buy up parts of our state property and then safely collapsed, and new oligarchs appeared in their place , which had nothing to do with vouchers, but now they began to belong ...
    2. Strashila
      Strashila 8 November 2014 19: 54
      +14
      Correctly noticed ... until October 1917, only a narrow circle of people knew about the Bolsheviks.
      Unlike Trotsky, who was already in power in the Petrosoviet, Lenin was illegally wanted.
      Much is attributed to the Bolsheviks ... the collapse of the armed forces, the massacre of command personnel in the army and navy ... but this was all the work of the liberals ... who blamed everything on the Bolsheviks.
      1. shasherin_pavel
        shasherin_pavel 8 November 2014 21: 36
        +3
        The whole tragedy of the situation, that the "Bolsheviks" attributed to themselves all the exploits of the revolution and civil war, creating the appearance of one rule, and not a multi-party government until 37, now they have hung all the dogs on them. Not a single Russian person who finds out that it was Trotsky who, in spite of Lenin, signed the "Shameful Brest Peace", will not condemn that he was bumped on the head with an alpenstock, he can only regret that he was not emasculated at first.
  4. predator.3
    predator.3 8 November 2014 18: 49
    +13
    The true Thermidor happened in Russia not in 1937, but in 1917, with his own participation of Bronstein.

    I completely agree ! and in the 37th with whom did Stalin begin? right, sent into oblivion those who destroyed the Russians in the 18-20s.
    1. saag
      saag 8 November 2014 19: 06
      -12
      Quote: predator.3
      right, sent into oblivion those who destroyed the Russians in the 18-20s.

      No, he destroyed those thanks to whom he came to power without them and he would not have been
      1. predator.3
        predator.3 8 November 2014 19: 24
        +7
        Quote: saag
        No, he destroyed those thanks to whom he came to power without them and he would not have been

        And you never thought why Stalin became the first? was the people's commissar for nationalities, then the party’s general secretary, then completely different people hung around next to Lenin, Trotsky, Rykov, Sverdlov, etc. Everything is simple, all these comrades raved about the world revolution, and they did not know how to rule the state (all the more so it was necessary to raise the country out of ruin), everything became isolated on Stalin and he began to nominate managers-business executives, i.e. took over the entire state apparatus.
        1. saag
          saag 8 November 2014 19: 53
          -1
          Quote: predator.3
          It’s simple, all these comrades raved about the world revolution, and they didn’t know how to manage the state (all the more it was necessary to raise the country out of ruin)

          Remind who it was there that the GOELRO plan was developed and implemented, the NEP, liquidated homelessness and established railway communication after a civilian, not Stalin hour?
          1. shasherin_pavel
            shasherin_pavel 8 November 2014 21: 52
            +5
            Hurried however: the GOERLO plan was just launched by Lenin, and the first news was a giant, which Europe - Volkhovstroy did not know. And the NEP is also Lenin. And the fight against homelessness began at his insistence, but Lenin charged the head of the Cheka F.E. Dzerzhinsky.
        2. shasherin_pavel
          shasherin_pavel 8 November 2014 21: 48
          +1
          You shouldn't have put Sverdlov on the same line with the "theoreticians". After Sverdlov's death, the government needed to arrange five ministerial offices to carry out his work for Sverdlov. You shouldn't have offended a person ...
          1. bda
            bda 8 November 2014 22: 55
            +2
            shasherin_pavel (1) RU Today, 21: 48 ↑

            You shouldn't have put Sverdlov on the same line with the "theoreticians". After Sverdlov's death, the government needed to arrange five ministerial offices to carry out his work for Sverdlov. You shouldn't have offended a person ...


            And it also took two hefty loaders to take the contents of his safe in the Kremlin's office to the future "Gokhran" - diamonds picked from jewelry confiscated from representatives of the exploiting classes.

            And one more point, very interesting: a certain Yeshua-Zalman Mikhailovich Sverdlov (the elder brother of the considered Mr. Yakov-Yankel) spent almost the entire Civil War in military-diplomatic posts in Siberia (near Kolchak), in Crimea (near Wrangel), in Georgia ( under the government of Georgian nationalists), etc. As a result, he rose to the rank of general of the French army. He made friends with "top officials". He died in Paris in 1966 in high esteem and with a very, very enviable condition.
            1. s1н7т
              s1н7т 9 November 2014 17: 20
              -1
              Quote: bda
              He died in Paris in 1966 at a premium and with a very, very enviable state.

              Is envy crushing you? laughing
      2. AlexeyL
        AlexeyL 8 November 2014 19: 39
        -6
        It was a confrontation between "Lenin's party" and "Stalin's party"
        1. predator.3
          predator.3 8 November 2014 19: 54
          0
          Quote: AlexeyL
          It was a confrontation between "Lenin's party" and "Stalin's party"

          But what kind of "Lenin's party" is there, Lenin was already on fire, the struggle between Stalin and Trotsky.
          1. Baloo
            Baloo 8 November 2014 21: 03
            +1
            The struggle of a leader, aware of his responsibility to the people, with an agent of influence of the Naglosak transnational financial group. I saw a photo: Ambassador of England, General of the Russian General Staff and Trotsky. Ambassador and General are relatives.
            Kerensky’s grandson in the cell: Grandfather said that 12 people called Trotsky in America and the February revolution took place.
          2. poquello
            poquello 8 November 2014 21: 45
            0
            Quote: predator.3
            Quote: AlexeyL
            It was a confrontation between "Lenin's party" and "Stalin's party"

            But what kind of "Lenin's party" is there, Lenin was already on fire, the struggle between Stalin and Trotsky.


            Addendum to Lenin's letter of December 24, 1922:

            “Stalin is too rude, and this flaw, quite tolerable in the environment and in communication between us Communists, becomes intolerant in the post of Secretary General. Therefore, I suggest that the comrades consider a way to move Stalin from this post and appoint another person to this place who in all other respects differs from Comrade Stalin by only one advantage, namely, he is more tolerant, more loyal, more polite and more attentive to his comrades, less capricious etc. This circumstance may seem like an insignificant trifle. But I think that from the point of view of safeguarding against schism and from the point of view of what I wrote above about the relationship between Stalin and Trotsky, this is not a trifle, or it is such a trifle that can be decisive ”(Lenin V.I. PSS. M., 1958-1965. T. 45.S. 344-346).
            1. Reinhard
              Reinhard 8 November 2014 22: 06
              +2
              There has never been a "Letter from Lenin"! Lenin then was generally no health! This is Trotsky's invention! Do you want to be smart? So you have the Internet before physics! am
              1. poquello
                poquello 8 November 2014 22: 19
                +1
                Quote: Reinhard
                There has never been a "Letter from Lenin"! Lenin then was generally no health! This is Trotsky's invention! Do you want to be smart? So you have the Internet before physics! am

                there for dumb footnote in brackets
                Lenin V.I. PSS. M., 1958-1965
                The 45th volume includes works written from March 6, 1922 to March 2, 1923.
            2. predator.3
              predator.3 9 November 2014 11: 36
              0
              Yes, I know about this letter, in the 90s. they wrote to everyone who was not lazy, the question: So why didn’t they remove Stalin then?
              1. poquello
                poquello 13 November 2014 01: 30
                0
                Quote: predator.3
                Yes, I know about this letter, in the 90s. they wrote to everyone who was not lazy, the question: So why didn’t they remove Stalin then?

                read Krupskaya’s memoirs about Stalin’s organizational talents
          3. bda
            bda 9 November 2014 00: 55
            0
            predator.3 SU Yesterday, 19:54 ↑

            Quote: AlexeyL
            It was a confrontation between "Lenin's party" and "Stalin's party"

            But what kind of "Lenin's party" is there, Lenin was already on fire, the struggle between Stalin and Trotsky.

            Comrade Lenin deceived everyone - he started a quarrel, and at the most crucial moment he pretended to be a vegetable: "So do what you want, gentlemen, Bolsheviks! If you want - cut each other in a row! If you want - not everything! And I first in Gorki, and then in I will lie down in the mausoleum, but I will look at you - which of you will lie down next to me, and who in Magadan or some other region will perish even without a mound. "
        2. shasherin_pavel
          shasherin_pavel 8 November 2014 21: 55
          +1
          The confrontation of Stalinist politics against Lenin's idea of ​​a world revolution. Indeed, a change in the name of the party from the CPSU (b) to the CPSU occurred under Khrushchev. These were different ideas for building socialism.
      3. shasherin_pavel
        shasherin_pavel 8 November 2014 21: 45
        +2
        Quote: saag
        No, he destroyed those thanks to whom he came to power without them and he would not have been
        In vain minus: here he is right, Stalin created his power together with them, more precisely behind their backs, because they were adherents of the world revolution with the help of an armed invasion of neighboring countries, and who believed that "if a large part of the world's population burns out in a fire, then it's okay, ten to twenty percent of the remaining will be enough for building communism. It was the Stalin Constitution of 36 that abolished the article, which spoke of the urgent need for a world revolution as the final stage of the revolution in Russia. It was then that Stalin held a referendum on the ban on the death penalty for enemies of the people. ”But the majority voted for the death penalty at the“ congress of the executed. ”They voted“ for, ”and they received it.
      4. bda
        bda 8 November 2014 22: 31
        +1
        saag (1) SU Today, 19:06 ↑

        Quote: predator.3
        right, sent into oblivion those who destroyed the Russians in the 18-20s.

        No, he destroyed those thanks to whom he came to power without them and he would not have been


        And this, by the way, is practically a mandatory option for anyone who uses the power for the good of the country, and not in order to distribute their personal debts. Otherwise, leave such “benefactors” “under the throne” and then they will come five times a day and gobble up: “Do you remember who put you here ?! So let's talk about the case, otherwise the price of oil is falling, and I still not all financial problems of his great-grandchildren were solved ... "
        1. Userpic
          Userpic 8 November 2014 22: 49
          +2
          Quote: saag

          No, he destroyed those thanks to whom he came to power
          Quote: bda

          And this, by the way, is an almost mandatory option for anyone who uses power for the good of the country.

          Liberal propaganda did its job laughing

    2. Reinhard
      Reinhard 8 November 2014 22: 03
      0
      What can I say! 1937 was a fair year! For instance . Bela Kun was trimmed for three days. grandmas kicked out. Countrywoman is smart. I gave everything myself. Grandma - in a bunch. those. that Lenin's shobla pilfered foreign banks! Tukhachevsky - fucked up on all sorts of "projects". Etc.
  5. Baloo
    Baloo 8 November 2014 19: 01
    -6
    A historical example of limp, irresponsible, mediocre, unreasonable, not delving into the essence of human affairs out of place. As they say in the frog: The art of being, the ability to seem.
    On the other hand, why did the Russian counterintelligence allow the work of the Abwehr branch in the amount of 30 people from ober to corporal at the headquarters of the Bolsheviks during the February revolution? Saving statehood it was possible to act more decisively according to the laws of wartime.
    1. saag
      saag 8 November 2014 19: 18
      +4
      Quote: Balu
      On the other hand, why did the Russian counterintelligence allow the work of the Abwehr branch in the amount of 30 people from ober to corporal at the headquarters of the Bolsheviks during the February revolution?

      Sorry, to some such headquarters of the Bolsheviks during the February revolution ???
      1. Baloo
        Baloo 8 November 2014 20: 07
        -4
        At the headquarters of the Bolsheviks during the February Revolution of 1917, the "B..ng Bureau" operated. We went through this on the history of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (graduated from the institute in 1980). I don't remember the exact name. In one of the old textbooks on the history of the CPSU, I ran into a paragraph at the very end, it stated that this bureau was German Social Democrats who had come to help the Bolsheviks. In one of the programs of Leonid Mlechin, documents with the stamp of the Archives were shown, respected service: the composition of the bureau, amounts, etc. In the same program, it was stated that the bureau was openly engaged in recruitment, training in operational skills, and organizing sabotage.
        1. s1н7т
          s1н7т 9 November 2014 17: 34
          0
          Quote: Balu
          We went through this on the history of the CPSU

          Maybe I did not study well, but I do not remember such a thing from the history of the CPSU.
    2. DRA-88
      DRA-88 8 November 2014 19: 44
      +5
      Quote: Balu
      On the other hand, why did the Russian counterintelligence allow the work of the Abwehr branch in the amount of 30 people from ober to corporal at the headquarters of the Bolsheviks during the February revolution?

      You have read the yellow press! In which express newspaper is such a fact mentioned?
      just do not quote traitors like "Suvorov"
      1. Baloo
        Baloo 8 November 2014 20: 07
        -3
        At the headquarters of the Bolsheviks during the February Revolution of 1917, the "B..ng Bureau" operated. We went through this on the history of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (graduated from the institute in 1980). I don't remember the exact name. In one of the old textbooks on the history of the CPSU, I ran into a paragraph at the very end, it stated that this bureau was German Social Democrats who had come to help the Bolsheviks. In one of the programs of Leonid Mlechin, documents with the stamp of the Archives were shown, respected service: the composition of the bureau, amounts, etc. In the same program, it was stated that the bureau was openly engaged in recruitment, training in operational skills, and organizing sabotage.
        1. DRA-88
          DRA-88 8 November 2014 20: 25
          +6
          Quote: Balu
          In one of Leonid Mlechin’s programs, documents with a stamp of the Archive of the respected service were demonstrated: Composition of the bureau, amounts, etc., etc.
          laughing
          Even in Mlechin's programs, they showed documents about Katyn! Mlechin is a rare obscurantist and scribbler! It's like judging about the Second World War from the movie "penal battalion" ..!

          Quote: Balu
          that the bureau openly engaged in recruitment, training in operational skills, and the organization of sabotage.

          In order not to give long quotes, I will answer on my own.
          Skills of operational, conspiratorial, sabotage and sabotage, as well as expropriation of expropriators comrade Stalin and many other revolutionaries could even teach Germans !!! Read their biography !!!
          With the 1-International, as well as the Social Democrats, the Bolsheviks disengaged much earlier than the February events, which Lenin and Stalin clearly indicate in their works.

          PS I graduated from the university a little later, Gorbachev called up the army of students, but I studied Scientific Communism not out of fear ....
          And as our warrant officer used to say in training: " No need to pour yogurt into the ass !!! " laughing
          1. Baloo
            Baloo 8 November 2014 21: 08
            -6
            DRA-88 And as our warrant officer used to say in the textbook: "Don't pour kefir on your ass!"

            And what does the ensign and 1 international have to do with it?
            Mlechin, for a second, operates on documents of the State Archives of the Russian Federation, and not on the conclusions of the ensign. What do you know about Mlechin’s main profession before he became a journalist?
            The Penalty Battalion is a true film, although fictional about the war. "The Living and the Dead", "Torpedo Bombers" are also real events in artistic interpretation.
            1. DRA-88
              DRA-88 9 November 2014 02: 30
              +3
              Quote: Balu
              The Penalty Battalion is a true film, although fictional about the war. "The Living and the Dead", "Torpedo Bombers" are also real events in artistic interpretation.

              How can you put in one row films filmed based on the works of participants in the events and an abomination called "penal battalion" - this liberal propaganda about criminals at the front?
              This is the same nonsense as nonsense about the fact that you read somewhere in something in 79, and then forgot ... and now you remember ....
              Give facts on penal battles during WWII!
            2. s1н7т
              s1н7т 9 November 2014 17: 43
              0
              Quote: Balu
              Fine battalion true film


              If my father saw this "true" film, he would spit.
      2. Baloo
        Baloo 8 November 2014 21: 32
        0
        I am not a fan of Suvorov, I like A. Ilyin more. By the popusami of Suvorov and Akunin, we have all the shops and stalls crammed, tired, and scrambled.

        Reluctance to accept a different point of view is peculiar to limited and superficial people. This is the truth of life.
      3. samuil60
        samuil60 8 November 2014 21: 51
        -5
        And you read the book "International Jewry" by Henry Ford and you will learn a lot of new things. You will find out, for example, who came from New York to Russia, and in how many. And for what. THEY made a revolution in Russia, and then took most of the positions in power. And it was them that Stalin, whenever possible, removed in the 30s = years by all possible means. And you need to know about pre-revolutionary Russia not only from the history textbooks of the CPSU, but it is also desirable to be interested in other literature. This site has gathered so many semi-literate supporters of the Bolsheviks that it looks like a branch of the Communist Party site. Only you will not be able to destroy Russia a second time, comrades Bolsheviks. And if not for I.V. Stalin, and people like him, the Great Patriotic War, you would also screw up, you are our semi-literate.
        1. sled beach
          sled beach 9 November 2014 01: 33
          -2
          And did Stalin drive the holy Russian people into the civil war?
        2. s1н7т
          s1н7т 9 November 2014 17: 53
          -1
          Quote: samuil60
          Only to destroy Russia for the second time you will not succeed

          No, we do not impose Orthodoxy, which destroyed Russia itself. We are not religious in principle. We are materialists. We evaluate the history of the facts. The Bolsheviks saved Russia - a fact. Other - nonsense and conjectures of liberals and ignoramuses.
      4. Robert49
        Robert49 8 November 2014 22: 47
        +1
        It’s better to read Mukhin. Grover may become clear in your head! And Mlechin is a brazen liberal traitor, a juggler of facts! Everyone already knows that the letter is a fake, like the Molotov-Ribentrop Pact, which the worst enemy of Russian Yakovlev concocted as soon as Molotov died! And Mlechin SHOWS DOCUMENTS ON WHICH IT IS PRINTED TO PRINT THE CPSU Central Committee, WHICH IS SIMPLY FUNNY! (Let me remind you that during the Second World War, the party was named VKPb!)
  6. Evilcat
    Evilcat 8 November 2014 19: 03
    +7
    Guys, you can upload numbers and statistics, but do not convince. Only along the Azov coast (northern) there were 13 grain powders. If someone does not know, these are elevators from which grain was transported by sea. The Russian Empire has always steered. No matter what it was called. No matter where it was shipped from. From Ukraine? So what? It was all one was the Empire. Russian empire.
  7. sv68
    sv68 8 November 2014 19: 21
    +1
    if my grandmother had a genital organ .... you won’t rewrite the story. yes, and they’re not trying better, no matter how worse it turns out.
    1. shasherin_pavel
      shasherin_pavel 8 November 2014 22: 00
      0
      Quote: sv68
      . you can’t rewrite history
      it was already rewritten before our birth. Now I’d like to figure it out somehow.
  8. little thing
    little thing 8 November 2014 19: 25
    +4
    An absurd article, especially about the technical backwardness of Russia, and the overwhelming majority of the peasant population has nothing to do with it! Let Isaac be built now, and then talk about the "age-old" technical backwardness of Russia, talkers!
    1. shasherin_pavel
      shasherin_pavel 8 November 2014 22: 05
      +2
      Even Volkhovstroy was a giant of that time, and only Dneproges ... and here Isakiy. Christ the Savior was restored. But the technical backwardness of Russia and the RSFSR cannot be hidden anywhere. Until the Second World War, machines were bought abroad. The most interesting thing is that all the crankshafts of tank diesel engines were forged by the German press. Carousel machines for the manufacture of shoulder straps for turrets of tanks and cruisers, and battleships of the "Soviet Union" type were also purchased at German factories.
  9. Radikal
    Radikal 8 November 2014 19: 32
    +3
    Quote: saag
    Quote: Balu
    On the other hand, why did the Russian counterintelligence allow the work of the Abwehr branch in the amount of 30 people from ober to corporal at the headquarters of the Bolsheviks during the February revolution?

    Sorry, to some such headquarters of the Bolsheviks during the February revolution ???

    And then there was also Abwehr.
    1. Baloo
      Baloo 8 November 2014 20: 13
      -4
      for Radikal:
      At the headquarters of the Bolsheviks during the February Revolution of 1917, the "B..ng Bureau" operated. We went through this on the history of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (graduated from the institute in 1980). I don't remember the exact name. In one of the old textbooks on the history of the CPSU, I ran into a paragraph at the very end, it stated that this bureau was German Social Democrats who had come to help the Bolsheviks. In one of the programs of Leonid Mlechin, documents with the stamp of the Archives were shown, respected service: the composition of the bureau, amounts, etc. In the same program, it was stated that the bureau was openly engaged in recruitment, training in operational skills, and organizing sabotage.
      I’m sorry, it means German military intelligence, but the very same Baron Walter von Nikolai managed it. His other agent was the notorious Parvus, aka Gelfand.
      It was Nikolai who persuaded the German prime minister to give money under Parvus in order to destroy the Russian Empire through the Bolsheviks.
      Nikolai did not want to work with Hitler, but he consulted and, like most aristocratic geniuses, was against an attack on the USSR. He was arrested by Smersh in Austria, died in 1949 in Lefortovo, only Beria communicated with him. There are no documents. This is all of the available Russian media accidentally heard, seen or read. I am not a historian.
    2. Baloo
      Baloo 10 November 2014 21: 39
      0
      Is German military intelligence and abwehr not the same thing? Founder one-Colonel Baron Walter von Nikolai.
  10. Svetlana
    Svetlana 8 November 2014 19: 36
    0
    I prefer the article (competent and professional) on this topic published on this 16.11.2011 website. The author - Samsonov Alexander. Some commentators accused him of plagiarism, perhaps they are right, but why reinvent the wheel if professional historians carefully studied and analyzed this topic, whose work he probably used.
    I strongly advise re-reading or reading to those who have not read:
    http://topwar.ru/8449-rossiyskaya-imperiya-nakanune-mirovoy-voyny.html
    1. bda
      bda 9 November 2014 01: 19
      0
      Svetlana

      I prefer the article (competent and professional) on this topic published on this site on 16.11.2011/XNUMX/XNUMX. The author - Samsonov Alexander ...

      Thanks for the link - a really very good article.
      And the questions (in 2011!) Are touched by just those that have now become much more topical.
      Although the vector of the article is somewhat different - A. Samsonov's main emphasis is on a thorough and conscientious description and analysis of the situation, as it was "in fact" and not "according to myths."
      In his turn, K. Semin invades the much more slippery sphere of "forecasting alternative history" in which "facts", just, are much easier to adapt to "myths" - who likes what - therefore, the "exhaust" under his article goes much more extreme: from puppies, sorry, enthusiasm to animal, again, hatred.
  11. akula
    akula 8 November 2014 19: 40
    +2
    Article +. Whatever it was then, but we still eat up what they grew up and it is not yet clear that we will leave our descendants, a strong power or a collapsed raw materials appendage, our current very liberal government seems to care more about apartments in Abu Dhabi, than about the development of industry and high technologies. In general, under dictatorships or dictatorship-kings, Russia has always made industrial leaps forward.
  12. 020205
    020205 8 November 2014 19: 43
    -6
    I read the first paragraph, I already shook it! How badly it was before the revolution, it’s just ah, the country is backward and the king and God’s fear in general! But that grandfather Vova, an enlightener and liberator from an armored car, saved the whole country. The author says NO to drugs !!!
  13. Strashila
    Strashila 8 November 2014 19: 48
    +4
    As the media sounded, which greatly surprised, October is a consequence of February.
    When someone tries to reason ... that if it weren’t for October, it would be ... milk rivers and jelly banks.
    That’s the essence of the matter that there wouldn’t be ... as the leader of the white movement Chavchavadze said ... the bloody October saved the Russian state.
  14. muks
    muks 8 November 2014 19: 56
    +4
    All if, but if ... If Emperor Alexander Alexandrovich had been ... more lenient towards the German Kaiser. He didn’t make him “wait in the hallway,” he would go out to meet CAM (as, incidentally, it follows from the etiquette of a courtier), caressed the wretched fatherly ... Then Nikolai Alexandrovich would have inherited a slightly different attitude of the monarch - and who knows? Having united at that time RUSSIA and Germany from foggy Albion would have made ... a pasture for sheep. And rams. Everything else in general and America and the Indians in particular ... But what can I say? But everything depends on "IF" - without "if" Germany gave birth to fascism. We ... WE KNOW WHAT IT IS. At the level of all existing memories .. And we know that ONLY THE DESTRUCTION OF Fascists IS THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE MEASURE FOR THEM.
  15. Evilcat
    Evilcat 8 November 2014 19: 58
    +1
    Quote: thing
    An absurd article, especially about the technical backwardness of Russia, and the overwhelming majority of the peasant population has nothing to do with it! Let Isaac be built now, and then talk about the "age-old" technical backwardness of Russia, talkers!

    Regarding the absurdity of the article, you right got excited. Well, you can’t be so categorical. But regarding the technical backwardness of Russia I agree. There was no backwardness. And about Isakia ... Excuse me, are you a Petersburger? I shake my hand - Isaac is something.
  16. Bayun
    Bayun 8 November 2014 20: 01
    -5
    The Russian Kingdom - lives and develops. Stalin - Sovereign Creator. Without the revolution of 1917 and the collapse of the USSR, it would be better. I am glad that the current Tsar is practically seeking a balance between the sovereign and the private. It is also encouraging that today's generation is genetically incapable of revolution.
    1. Userpic
      Userpic 8 November 2014 20: 14
      +3
      Quote: Bayun
      Stalin - Sovereign Creator.
      the current Tsar is practically seeking a balance between sovereign and private
  17. fed2912
    fed2912 8 November 2014 20: 20
    -2
    As far as I understand, the vast majority of industrial (and not only) projects implemented by the Bolsheviks were developed before the revolution. The Russian Empire was not at all such an industrially backward country, as the author writes.
    1. Baloo
      Baloo 8 November 2014 20: 55
      -1
      At the same time, one cannot ignore the facts of sabotage and sabotage at defense enterprises during the First World War, and "benefits" to strikers. I believe that the period from 1900 to 1917 for the edification of descendants should be objectively consecrated in history textbooks for schools and universities. What works of art by Kuprin and Akunin reflect the struggle of Russian counterintelligence with Japanese intelligence, German intelligence? The book and film "The Collapse of the Empire" reflects this struggle and the fate of counterintelligence officers during the First World War and the Civil War. It is clear that works of art are literary fiction, but these works, at least in an abbreviated form, should be on the list of compulsory literature for extracurricular reading by schoolchildren.
    2. Userpic
      Userpic 8 November 2014 21: 22
      +4
      Quote: fed2912
      most of the industrial (and not only) projects implemented by the Bolsheviks were developed before the revolution
      References to these developments, please.
  18. fktrcfylhn61
    fktrcfylhn61 8 November 2014 20: 29
    +3
    However, almost no one wants to go in this "if" to the end.

    Well, yes, to reveal the predatory essence of autocracy plus unlimited capitalism, there is no charms in it !!!
  19. Sanya Rus
    Sanya Rus 8 November 2014 20: 30
    -3
    The article is completely nonsense, judging by its content, Russia after the revolution made an economic breakthrough, but slipped into the category of third-rate countries and was selected from the ruins of a decade, at the cost of further impoverishment of the people and the most severe terror ...
  20. rf xnumx
    rf xnumx 8 November 2014 20: 59
    -4
    Everything happened as it happened, why is it if yes
  21. Thompson
    Thompson 8 November 2014 21: 17
    +2
    Quote: Old very
    And do not troll us; tell what before what happened
    Live today, build tomorrow with your brains and hands stop

    Whoever does not learn from the lessons of the past has a dubious future!
  22. Thompson
    Thompson 8 November 2014 21: 20
    -1
    Quote: Balu
    for Radikal:
    At the headquarters of the Bolsheviks during the February Revolution of 1917, the "B..ng Bureau" operated. We went through this on the history of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (graduated from the institute in 1980). I don't remember the exact name. In one of the old textbooks on the history of the CPSU, I ran into a paragraph at the very end, it stated that this bureau was German Social Democrats who had come to help the Bolsheviks. In one of the programs of Leonid Mlechin, documents with the stamp of the Archives were shown, respected service: the composition of the bureau, amounts, etc. In the same program, it was stated that the bureau was openly engaged in recruitment, training in operational skills, and organizing sabotage.
    I’m sorry, it means German military intelligence, but the very same Baron Walter von Nikolai managed it. His other agent was the notorious Parvus, aka Gelfand.
    It was Nikolai who persuaded the German prime minister to give money under Parvus in order to destroy the Russian Empire through the Bolsheviks.
    Nikolai did not want to work with Hitler, but he consulted and, like most aristocratic geniuses, was against an attack on the USSR. He was arrested by Smersh in Austria, died in 1949 in Lefortovo, only Beria communicated with him. There are no documents. This is all of the available Russian media accidentally heard, seen or read. I am not a historian.

    You could not read in 80 SUCH in any textbook. Or what you read, you read SO!
    1. Baloo
      Baloo 8 November 2014 21: 44
      0
      The textbook I am referring to was released in 1963 for the party system. The paragraph on the last 20-30 pages 6 or 8 lines. I'm not making this up. By the way, I graduated later, when I started working, the evening university of social sciences at the regional committee of the CPSU. We were trained to be something like political scientists and propagandists. He did not want to join the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, having once attended a consultation at the "Obkomovskaya" hospital.
  23. Thompson
    Thompson 8 November 2014 21: 34
    +1
    Quote: 020205
    I read the first paragraph, I already shook it! How badly it was before the revolution, it’s just ah, the country is backward and the king and God’s fear in general! But that grandfather Vova, an enlightener and liberator from an armored car, saved the whole country. The author says NO to drugs !!!

    The author of this paragraph, say NO to drugs!
  24. Yura
    Yura 8 November 2014 21: 34
    +2
    Well, the article ... basically readable, that is, you can get acquainted with thoughts or a look at a certain situation, at a certain time, of a certain author. You can say the version, and maybe even justified, and I say this without sarcasm. Quite a lot, over the past three decades, various stories of these times have been written, both alternative and claiming to be true, but ... but they don’t have the main thing, perhaps with the exception of some part (rather large) of the history covered by the Soviet school , and learned historians from the Soviet School too. Now I will explain what I mean, but I mean that for sure there would have been no Revolution of nine hundred and five, no ERW in the form in which it was conducted and how it ended, i.e. The Great October Socialist Revolution and, accordingly, all that followed, and estimate how much is still to date, is incomprehensible to the mind. But there was a hopeless Russian people driven into poverty, for the most part of which it was all the same to pick up forks and axes, it was despair. They understood that this was a loss because not a single rebellion and rebellion before this, either Stenka Razin, nor Pugachev, or 1905 brought them victory or at least relief. And all these are our kings, our nobility and the nobility, those who led Russia to what happened then, I have neither pity nor sympathy for them, just as there is no such thing for the Communists. Damn, I’ll say it again, if the Russian people had not been driven to despair, what a handful of Bolsheviks, or Mensheviks, or Socialist-Revolutionaries could have done. It was not Lenin with Trotsky, and with Stalin and their other comrades-in-arms who seized power and in the wake of popular anger, did such a thing to Russia, and our kings, our nobility, the nobility are repeating, oh well, but forgot to add the intelligentsia, all of a sudden nor take it, and ready for anything for your well-being. Now many of us are ready to bow before them, but not me. E my ... in those days, our king is Nikolai the Bloody, today he became St. Nicholas. In the idealization of our nobility, the White movement, we forget that if this would happen today, then most of them would chop our heads without hesitation, hang them and shoot them, because the people for them were working cattle, you see the mentality of them whether such education was centuries old, it was not allowed otherwise, and if one of them suddenly found out that he had a conscience and sympathy for his people, then the ringing of shackles at the stage is a funeral song for such a person.
  25. Thompson
    Thompson 8 November 2014 21: 36
    +2
    Quote: Sanya Rus
    The article is completely nonsense, judging by its content, Russia after the revolution made an economic breakthrough, but slipped into the category of third-rate countries and was selected from the ruins of a decade, at the cost of further impoverishment of the people and the most severe terror ...

    Teach history so you don’t get nonsense! hi
  26. Thompson
    Thompson 8 November 2014 21: 46
    +2
    In fact, the abundance of stories about the so-called German money, agents, spies and instigators is surprising! But not a single author of these stories bothers to delve into the essence, but presents everything simply as a fact without presenting a reason. And the reasons are simple- The revolution was supposed to start in ... GERMANY! (When they realized that they couldn’t make a world at all!) That was where the strongest revolutionary spirit was! BUT! Germany grew stronger financially and economically, the working class began to live better and the desire to revolution was lost. Russia turned out to be the weakest link. Everyone switched to her! IDEALLY!
    Hence the flow of financial assistance, personnel, etc. .. And it is not necessary to say that Revolution 17 is the work of German provonators and ill-wishers! All the revolutionaries of that time were internationalists, not Nazis.
    1. Userpic
      Userpic 8 November 2014 22: 35
      +2
      Quote: Thompson
      In fact, the abundance of stories about the so-called German money, agents, spies and instigators is surprising!
  27. Thompson
    Thompson 8 November 2014 21: 51
    +2
    Quote: Balu
    The textbook I am referring to was released in 1963 for the party system. The paragraph on the last 20-30 pages 6 or 8 lines. I'm not making this up. By the way, I graduated later, when I started working, the evening university of social sciences at the regional committee of the CPSU. We were trained to be something like political scientists and propagandists. He did not want to join the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, having once attended a consultation at the "Obkomovskaya" hospital.

    Familiar! I myself was at such "consultations"! But unlike you, I went there to fight SUCH "consultants"! The CPSU already felt and saw the collapse and decay! THERE WERE NO IDEAL IN IT !!! CAREERS COME !!! And in general, at that time, the word communist from the CPSU could be removed - there were already those communists in it who made 17 years old!
    1. Baloo
      Baloo 8 November 2014 22: 06
      0
      Dear Thompson, I can agree with you. One lecture was a turning point for me. In the city, there was already a struggle between gangsters, shootings, and the "asphalt" was being shared. A lecturer from the regional committee: young people are starting fights,
      ny-ny-ny ...
      The people were indignant. A small group of officers sat in the hall, only they turned their heads and looked closely at the indignant. It became clear that a lie, an outright lie.
      Subsequently, through the media there was information that the head of the largest group "Tyaplyap" (from the area of ​​the Teplocontrol plant) was a former opera house, even a photo of him was shown on TV many years later. Probably also happened in other cities.
      Comparing the mechanisms of "revolutions" that are arranged by macaques from Fashington all over the world and that period of the formation of street gangs and their merging with corrupt legalists, we involuntarily ask for parallels in our time, in particular with Ukraine.
    2. Baloo
      Baloo 10 November 2014 21: 43
      0
      Familiar! I myself was at such "consultations"! But unlike you, I went there to fight SUCH "consultants"! The CPSU already felt and saw the collapse and decay!

      This is a medical consultation. I was struck by the difference in the conditions of treatment of party nomenclature and ordinary people. I was very struck, I decided to remain non-partisan, and I am one.
  28. Aleksey_K
    Aleksey_K 8 November 2014 22: 05
    0
    Thus, Lev Davidovich Bronstein, who stigmatized the Stalinist USSR for betraying the ideas of the revolution, was still wrong. The true Thermidor happened in Russia not in the 1937, but in the 1917 year, with his own participation of Bronstein.

    A bit confusing, but basically everything is correct, except for the last saying of the author. Bad author taught the French revolution. Although it was difficult at school to understand all this French historical nonsense with renaming, thermidor means the overthrow of like-minded people in power and other like-minded people who were threatened with physical destruction due to divergence of views on what was happening.
    In October 1917, the Bolsheviks were not supporters of the bourgeois provisional government. Thus, the author is misleading the readers. What purpose? It's good if this is just a mistake in understanding the term "Thermidor". And if it deliberately leads away from the truth?
  29. SveTok
    SveTok 8 November 2014 22: 05
    +3
    The results of the Soviet Union’s activity are all in the face of science, this is defense, this is industry, this is also the victory in the great war, and the beginning of this transformation of Russia was laid by the Bolsheviks in 1917, and most normal people celebrate October Revolution Day 7 November.
  30. Asgard of Iry
    Asgard of Iry 8 November 2014 22: 46
    +2
    Aha, technologically backward, illiterate, peasant Russian Empire, in just 10 years (1091-1901), built the world's most grandiose railway from the Urals to the Far East with a length of about 7 thousand km! It had one of the most powerful naval forces in the world! It had the most powerful Air Force, which included the largest, at that time, bombers "Ilya Muromets"! Mass production of trucks and cars at the Russobalt factories!
    According to the stories of my grandmother, not only in their large "remote Siberian village", but also in the nearby villages, there were zemstvo schools and 100% of the population was literate!
    My ancestors, who lived in a "remote Siberian village", produced high-grade bricks, clinker, and spoonfuls, made skins and furs, grew rye and wheat in marketable quantities and traded all this at Russian and international fairs. In this "remote Siberian village", the famous Black Swan buttermilk was made, which received a silver medal at the World Paris Exhibition in 1902!
    In the spring, immediately after the sowing season, salesmen came to the "remote Siberian village" and "on credit" brought meat grinders, sewing machines, grinders, steam tractors, seeders, winnowing machines, threshers, mills and other advanced, at that time, household and agricultural machinery, as well as "exotic" products, such as "watermelons-grapes-pomegranates-bananas-ana
    nasov "...
    In this "remote Siberian village" there was a zemstvo medical center with a qualified doctor and several paramedics and nurses ...
    And, in general, about what defeat in that war are you discussing here !?
    As of the end of 1916, Russia "won" the 1st World (Second Patriotic) War. Our front line passed on the lands of Galicia, Bukovina, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey ...
    In that war, Russian generals (unlike the Stalin ones after 30 years) did not flood the enemy with the corpses of their soldiers. The combat losses of the Russian army killed in battles (according to various estimates from 775 to 911 thousand people) corresponded to such losses of the Central Bloc as 1: 1 (Germany lost about 303 thousand people on the Russian front, Austria-Hungary - 451 thousand and Turkey - about 151 thousand ) Russia waged a war with much less stress than its opponents and allies ... Even taking into account significant sanitary losses and those who died in captivity, the total losses were much less sensitive for Russia than for other countries ...
    The share of those mobilized in Russia was the smallest - only 39% of all men aged 15-49 years, while in Germany - 81%, in Austria-Hungary - 74%, in France - 79%, England - 50%, Italy - 72% At the same time, for every thousand mobilized in Russia, 115 were killed and dead, while in Germany - 154, Austria - 122, France - 168, England - 125, etc., for every thousand men aged 15-49, Russia lost 45 people, Germany - 125, Austria - 90, France - 133, England - 62; finally, for every thousand of all inhabitants, Russia lost 11 people, Germany - 31, Austria - 18, France - 34, England - 16. Perhaps the only one of the warring countries, Russia did not experience food problems. An inconceivable German "military bread" sample of 1917 in Russia and I could not have dreamed of anyone.
    So, you, gentlemen-comrades, generalisimos of the armies, what kind of eternal "Russian" illiteracy and backwardness, and what defeat are you discussing here !?
    Mikhail Bulgakov was right when he put the famous phrase in the mouth of Professor Preobrazhensky: "Don't read Soviet newspapers" ...
    On my own I will add: "Do not study the history of Russia in the" Short Course in the History of the CPSU "...
    1. sled beach
      sled beach 9 November 2014 01: 55
      +3
      Now I would like to know how such a civil war happened in which a large part of the population sympathized with the Bolsheviks? Or maybe there was no civil war, maybe this is the Tatar yoke!? And also, when people start to get up from sofas you already have no time to write and nothing, rejoice comrade that all are sofa for now.
      1. Asgard of Iry
        Asgard of Iry 9 November 2014 09: 30
        0
        And, from the same one, from which almost the entire Khokhlokhazaria, like "for no reason, no reason," has been jumping together for a year now ...
        My ancestors wisely used to say about such anik-warriors: "Do not boast when going to rati ...", but, better, right now, do something useful ...
    2. s1н7т
      s1н7т 9 November 2014 16: 46
      0
      Starting with the "Short Course ..." and ending with the rest - the delirium of a sophomore expelled for academic failure and incapable of analysis - these were the delusions of Gorby, Yeltsin, Gaidar, Chubais and others like them. On my own behalf, I will add: the USSR was a great power, and your "Bulgakov's" Russia is a parody of it. As Ilyich said - study, study and study again! But not counting money, but thinking! Then appreciate the contribution of the Bolsheviks to the history of the country.
  31. PSKR-916
    PSKR-916 8 November 2014 23: 19
    0
    While reading comments, the article is lost. Although in general, yes - it’s Russian if, yes if only ...
  32. Selevc
    Selevc 8 November 2014 23: 26
    0
    Quote: Asgard of Irian
    Yeah, technologically backward, illiterate, peasant Russian Empire, in just 10 years (1091-1901), built the most ambitious railway in the world from the Urals to the Far East, with a length of about 7 thousand km!

    Asgard was literally removed from the language))) - I just wanted to write about it ... I can only add - that the tsarist "backward" Russia - throughout the 19th century, grew by vast territories in Transcaucasia, Central Asia, the Far East - all this was needed master and build communications and, in the case of the Far East and Siberia, also populate !!!
    Not without reason before the revolution, the Germans and other Europeans went to work and live in Russia - these will not go where they get !!! Probably life in Russia is not bad!
    And there is nothing to say about the sons of Israel (forever persecuted and infringed) - by the beginning of the 20th century, so many of them had multiplied in Russia that the lion's share of trade and production in the country was in their hands ...
    1. Userpic
      Userpic 8 November 2014 23: 55
      +1
      Quote: Selevc
      Asgard literally removed from the tongue

      “The history of old Russia consisted, incidentally, in the fact that it was continuously beaten for backwardness. They beat the Mongol khans. They beat the Turkish beks. Beat the Swedish feudal lords. Beat Polish-Lithuanian pans. Beaten by the Anglo-French capitalists. They beat the Japanese barons. They beat everyone - for cultural backwardness, for state backwardness, for industrial backwardness, for agricultural backwardness. They beat him because it was profitable and went off with impunity. ”

      (I. Stalin. Questions of Leninism. 1934, p. 445.)
      1. Selevc
        Selevc 9 November 2014 19: 08
        0
        Quote: Userpic
        “The history of old Russia consisted, incidentally, in the fact that it was continuously beaten for backwardness.

        Yes, actually it is not clear how in a "backward" country they could build such huge battleships whose guns then served the country for another half a century? This means that heavy industry and metallurgy were not even backward at all ...

        How did one of the first four-engined bombers in the world appear in such a "backward" country?

        How did it happen that such a "backward" country at the beginning of the 20th century had the longest railway network in the world?

        Why did a whole generation of outstanding scientists, architects, writers, physicians, artists, etc. appear in this "backward country" in the second half of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century?

        How was jewelry made in such a "backward" country, which is now sold for huge sums of money at international auctions?

        Why did people go to live and work from all over the world to this "backward" country? And now, 100 years later, we are witnessing an almost opposite trend !!!

        It seems to me that in order to find out about the real life of Russia in the 19th and early 20th centuries, it is necessary to wash away many more layers of lies and dirt with which it was watered for so long and hard !!!
  33. Aleksey_K
    Aleksey_K 8 November 2014 23: 27
    +3
    Quote: Old very
    And do not troll us; tell what before what happened
    Live today, build tomorrow with your brains and hands stop

    So this is the information war. One cannot be silent on provocative "supposedly, but if only", and one must not just calm down "live ... build ... with your own hands", but fight and prove, at least a thousand times, which is true. Otherwise, they will bite and the new generation will think differently.
  34. Siberian
    Siberian 8 November 2014 23: 52
    0
    .............. In 1914, patriotism and the desire of Russians to fight were no lower than in 2014 the approval of the annexation of Crimea to Russia ... and ... how it all ended .... In short, a fairy tale a lie, but a hint in it, a lesson for good fellows ...........
  35. The comment was deleted.
  36. Severomor
    Severomor 9 November 2014 00: 23
    +4
    Quote: Balu
    In one of Leonid Mlechin’s programs, documents with a stamp of the Archive of the respected service were demonstrated

    Thank you so much for such an investigation. Still add the study of a certain historian N. Svanidze. And if you still read the great works, no less great than Svanidze, E. Radzinsky, then it is time to publish a history textbook on their works. Do not forget Chhartishvili.
    And your children (I will not give up my children, strongly against it, I will cut the truth-uterus) to teach in this textbook.

    And do not forget about the homeland, in which the system is oligarchic capitalism.
    We always remember: for the sake of 300% profit, the capitalist is ready for any crime.
    1. Baloo
      Baloo 9 November 2014 09: 14
      0
      Svinidze, Radzinsky and Akunin played in their pseudo-liberalism.
      As for Mlechin, given his biography, I have no reason not to trust his information, although not in everything I agree with his interpretation.
      1. Severomor
        Severomor 10 November 2014 15: 41
        0
        You can call them pseudo-liberals or something else, but the degree of Russophobia of these scum rolls over the top. I am for the surgical disposal of these nonhumans.
        Although they are in TV box regularly, we conclude :)))

        Story - Oligarchic capitalism.
        For the sake of 300% profit, the capitalist is ready for any crime.
  37. Straight
    Straight 9 November 2014 00: 47
    +4
    All these complaints are useless. Contemporaries speak of tsarist Russia as a country of constant hunger, where millions of beggars roamed the roads, 40-60% of conscripts only in the army tried meat for the first time, and so on. Judge for yourselves to raise our people, especially the revolution must be taken to extremes, if you do not believe me, look around you now, nothing has changed in the temperament of the people, and in the foulness of power too. So, no matter how you blame anyone, everything will happen without our permission according to social laws and everyone will get what they deserve.
  38. Litvin from Grodno
    Litvin from Grodno 9 November 2014 01: 07
    +1
    Quote: bda
    I DO NOT QUOTE THE TEXT IN VIEW OF PLACE SAVINGS. START: Firstly, the fact that the Bolsheviks were an "incredible surprise" for the British and the Germans is a good anecdote in the style of Petrosyan - they themselves nursed them, and then were surprised!
    Secondly, Lev Davidovich Bronstein condemned the Stalinist USSR quite rightly (from his point of view - from the point of view of the American-British fosterling) - in 1937, with the completion of the process of destruction of the Lenin-Sverdlovsk-Trotskyist "Bolshevik guard" in our country, the last a nail in the coffin of the "revolution" that began in February 1917, which turned Russia into a raw material appendage of Western countries (one has only to look at the materials on the terms under which the same Comrade Bronstein gave our natural resources in concession to the Americans and the British in the beginning ... .................
    ENDING: Maybe it's time to break out of this "vicious circle" - to stop pleasing the world with your bloody troubles, and civil strife, and get down to business: to put things in our house the way we like and live in it according to our own understanding, and not like someone there considers it "ghostly communist", "politically correct", "tolerant", etc.!
    We will not show weakness - and there will be no one who wants to get into our house.


    All of you are absolutely correct. Leiba (not Lev) Davidovich Bronstein is the one through which most of the financial flows from the United States went to feed the Bolshevik underground. The direct "curator" in the USA of Bronstein-Trotsky was his banker cousin. They acted according to a clearly developed plan, "run in cold weather" in 1904-1907. The plan for the collapse of the Russian Empire was "drawn" by another major tycoon of the US financial elite, Jacob Schiff (read his biography yourself - a very odious person, in fact, the enemy of Russia and the destroyer of Russia in 1917 No. 1, naturally he acted not alone but in conjunction with other well-known "houses "America - by their" fellow tribesmen "Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Kuns, Leeb). The goal is the destruction of both the monarchy itself and the physical murder of the RUSSIAN Tsar (what he did not please him so much - there are many versions), the division of the Russian territory into zones of influence, the extraction of raw materials according to the specialization of "families" - for someone gold, for someone oil, grain, metal, etc., the transformation of the population of the Russian Empire into goyim (slaves) for exploitation - the extraction of raw materials, its processing, etc.
    All those who say that Lenin was a German spy are only partly right - the Germans financed the Bolsheviks on an incomparably smaller scale, and even joined the "race" to destroy our country much later than the Anglo-Saxons of England-USA. The main sponsors of the coup d'etat were in the United States (surnames above). Their plan was a success - a classic:
    1) first drawing Russia into the Russo-Japanese War (Japan fought on credit, the entire army and navy were built in England for credit money, only Jacob Schiff sponsored Mikado already for 200 million dollars (!!!) of those gold ones). For Japan, a defeat meant a financial collapse of the empire — debt must be paid. The result of the war is the complete squeezing of Russia from East Asian markets and the loss of concessions there.
    2) the creation of a large and aggressive opposition in Russia itself from among the socialists of various stripes and shades. A lot of money has been invested. The first test of strength - an attempt at mass protests in 1905, failed. The king and his apparatus had the strength to regain control of the situation. But the first stone is thrown ..., the first experience is gained ...
  39. Litvin from Grodno
    Litvin from Grodno 9 November 2014 01: 08
    0
    Continued 1:
    3) The game in international commodity markets, where Russia has always been present - sugar and grain. The goal is the same - financially weaken.
    4) Involvement of Russia in the First World War at any cost - we had the least interest in fighting, but the Anglo-Saxons needed a second front and cannon fodder - Russia "fulfilled" both. Because of the shortsightedness of the tsar himself and his Anglophile relatives, Russia entered into an alliance with France and England - "she laid hands on herself," which could not be done under any circumstances. Half of the Germans "took over", "put on" cannon fodder. By the end of 1916, when it became clear that Germany was “exhausted” and the outcome of the war was a foregone conclusion in the United States, a decision was made - “the Moor has done his job, the Moor can“ leave. ”The corresponding decision was sent to the headquarters of the socialists - IT'S TIME TO ACT, work off the money of the US financial top. Russia "left" - the socialists, using cunning methods, decomposed the army, the navy, too, the intelligentsia (the one that is "lousy" - according to Comrade VI Ulyanov-Blanc) decomposed itself in its nihilism. The proletarians were initially decomposed and themselves became a breeding ground for the socialists, due to their overcrowding and lack of ownership of the means of production (for those who do not know PROLETARIUS - in ancient Rome, a citizen who did not have a heart-to-heart, in short, a beggar in Russian). Therefore, "the proletarian had nothing to lose except his own chains." The eternal support of Russia remains - peasantry (it is also the Russian Army). It’s more complicated. For the peasants of Russia, the Bolsheviks were like for the popes, James Cook, who first entered their island. But they worked cunningly - they told the soldiers bayonets in the ground and at home, and at home you say that the Bolsheviks will distribute the EARTH to the peasants. Here Russia fell, it was a blow to the heart.

    You correctly said how Sverdlov’s Bronsteins plundered Russia in favor of their overseas fellow tribesmen, but did not give figures. I will give only one, but visual. People's Commissar Bronstein-Trotsky, on behalf of the Schiffs-Rothshedbds, so divided the gold ore concessions in Soviet Russia, THINK - 93% of the gold mined went to the USA, 7% remained in Russia !!! As you, 93% versus 7% ???. The development, of course, involved companies from the United States and England - equipment, engineers, exploration. The goys did the physical work of mining and separating gold. Oil is the same principle of robbery. Fur is the same. Gemstones too.
  40. Litvin from Grodno
    Litvin from Grodno 9 November 2014 01: 08
    -1
    Continuation 2. Export of items of historical, cultural and church heritage - the same.
    All this bacchanalia for the final destruction of Russia was stopped only thanks to the coming to power of Stalin. I am not his supporter; he has done a lot of trouble. But you won’t erase words from a song - It was Stalin who outplayed Trotsky and his overseas sponsors-tribesmen. This is a historical fact, whether someone likes Stalin or not, but if Trotsky had come to power instead of Stalin, Russia would not exist as a state now - that's for sure. Continuation. Maximum "Russia according to Trotsky" is a territory divided into many banana-raw material zones similar to African states. Why did Stalin remove Trotsky only by the end of the 30s - historians also practically answered this question. Stalin sensed war, knew that it would be, but did not know when. And he foresaw the same scenario as in 1914 - a world conspiracy of all the same performers from the United States who were dragged by the collar from the "Russian feeding trough together with the Trotsky". So he cleaned it up so that there was no one to put the "financiers from the USA" on, at the same time he destroyed the Trotskyists inside the USSR before the war, the same Tukhachevsky (there was a conspiracy, it was disclosed on the basis of the evidence obtained in accordance with Soviet law (it was Stalin himself insisted on it), and was not falsified by the NKVD and this is a fact).

    The conclusion is correct: "It's time to break out of this" vicious circle "- to stop pleasing the world with your bloody troubles, and civil strife, and get down to business: to put things in order in our house the way we like and live in it according to our own understanding, and not like someone he considers it "ghostly communist", "politically correct", "tolerant", etc.! "

    Right. And it's enough to "collect" - and Serbia was "collected" in 1914 - the trouble ended, and Bulgaria - which always turned away from us, and the socialist camp was "collected" - only enemies were eventually made, and 26 out of 50 African countries "collected" - they fed parasites (and sometimes real cannibals) like bokaso and mobutu. Based on the experience gained historically, it is no longer necessary to collect, but to BUILD. There are former USSR countries - including my hardworking Belaya Rus. So we need to build a New Union, BUT on the principles of EQUALITY and RESPECT, and not on the principles of “big brother.” You need to build your house, strengthen it, manage your household rationally, plow the land and, most importantly, NEVER LISTEN UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. WESTERN WISHERS ". All history testifies that they to us, the Slavs, are enemies - either secret or explicit.

    We need to live the way China lives. This is a great country, with which we need to take an example - how to conduct foreign and domestic policy. They "did not collect" anything, they simply did not give what was theirs and improved what they had. good

    I wish everyone peace and goodness !!! drinks
    1. Baloo
      Baloo 9 November 2014 09: 17
      0
      Thank. In your comment I found answers to questions I did not understand.
      What can you say about the "Chekists' conspiracy" in 1927? There is no information about this, was it?
  41. sled beach
    sled beach 9 November 2014 02: 29
    +1
    The laboring peasant proletariat is the strength and glory of the people. In a healthy body, a healthy spirit.
  42. Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 9 November 2014 02: 39
    0
    Post-historical process (fiction)
    Stalin ate the meat of innocently killed repressed children. The meat was unroasted, and therefore in the process of eating blood flowed from the leader's chin. The leader sighed, poured himself a chachi, drank it in one gulp and continued the meal.
    On the doorstep of the dining room appeared Mikhail Ivanovich Kalinin in a hat, from under which the paice protruded.
    Stalin, seeing his comrade-in-arms, mechanically crossed himself and knocked over another glass of chachi.
    - No way, Misha, I can’t get used to your mind! - he said. - It seems to me that addiction and eternity is not enough!
    Kalinin grinned and answered:
    “If only you knew, Koba, what I feel!” I still hope that there, - Kalinin showed down. - over time, something will change.
    “Well, they don’t forbid us to hope here,” Stalin smiled, stuffing another piece of the baby into his mouth, “It's still not hell!”
    “Neither hell, nor heaven, nor nonexistence,” sighed Kalinin, “Eternity in a world where you depend on what they write about you among the living.” Either a buffoon, or a puppet ...
    “Come on,” Stalin patted the headman. - Tell me better than what you did today?
    “Today, as always,” Kalinin shrugged, “I cooked matzo on the blood of the Russian people, mainly children.” Well, then different Jewish rituals, editing the “Protocols of the Zion of the Sages”, drawing up the plans of the Holodomor ... Nothing new ...
    Stalin continued to eat, not forgetting to drink chacha meat.
    - Listen, Koba, I wanted to ask you - how does a man taste?
    - Well, I don’t know, this one is like lamb! - answered the leader.
    “Aren't you tired of killing babies every day?” - clarified Kalinin.
    “And who told you that I'm killing them?” Asked Stalin. - Everything is simpler for me - they bring a basin with meat, and on it there is an inscription - “Meat of repressed children”. Well, you have to eat. Rules are rules. Well, at least let Chacha go on this business.
    “Yes, I, in fact, have the same story with matzo,” Kalinin said, “They bring blood in buckets and go!”
    Half-naked Beria ran into the dining room.
    - Guys, save me, I can no longer! He moaned, slamming the doors and propping them up with himself.
    Kalinin and Stalin looked sympathetically at an ally.
    - Lavrentiy, I understand everything, but you know - I have to rape 150 women in a day, the rules are the rules!
    “But this is unrealistic,” Beria yelled, feeling that the door was already breaking, “not a single person can stand it!”
    “None can stand it, but the bloody executioner of the NKVD can stand it,” Kalinin said with a shadow of malevolence. “We must, Lavrusha!
    The door swung open and heavy guards dragged Beria back to the awaiting victims of sexual terror. Nikolai II entered the dining room with a halo around his head.
    “Lucky,” he said, looking after Beria.
    Stalin and Kalinin giggled.
    “You have a wife,” said Kalinin. “Why envy something?”
    “Well, you are a Jew bastard,” the tsar cursed. “You know that I am incapable with my present holiness ...”
    - Kolyan, well, what are you trying to swear again? - grinned Kalinin. “You know that your scolding is stumbling over for us.” It is not allowed for the saint to swear, make love, send natural necessities ...
    “Osia, and Osia,” said Nicholas II longingly, “Pour a glass, huh?”
    “I'll pour it in,” answered Stalin. - What's the point? You still won’t drink it, your chacha immediately turns into holy water!
    1. Roman 1977
      Roman 1977 9 November 2014 02: 43
      0
      Nikolai dropped his royal head with a halo in his hands:
      - Damn, how did I get guys! While I was considered a satrap and an executioner there, how good it was! All the joys - wine, women, partying ... And now? Continuous prayer and nothing more ... Yes, and the wife is sawing - must, they say, correspond to the image of the king-martyr ...
      - You might think there were times when Sasha didn’t saw you? - interposed stinging Kalinin.
      Nikolai sadly looked at Stalin and Kalinin and answered:
      - I will divorce her, men! I’ll say that she and Rasputin cheated on me!
      Kalinin and Stalin laughed:
      “Who do you say, Kolya?” There are no registry offices, and you and your wife will live forever!
      “Without s_eksa,” added the sly Kalinin.
      A homeless peasant appeared from behind the door and threw it to the king:
      - Nikolai Alexandrovich, you do not get me involved in your affairs! I already suffer because of you all the time!
      “Vali, get out of here, Rasputin,” the king said, “now you don’t understand at all: either a saint or a sinner!”
      “That's right,” Rasputin snapped, “and you know what it feels like?” I drink the other day with the girls, well, I think the party will be - fire, when suddenly vodka does not go into the throat, and weakness along the male line! Again, some bastard considered saints! Shame before the girls - trouble!
      In order not to annoy Nikolai, Rasputin hastened to retire. The gloomy Budyonny and cheerful Kolchak appeared in the doorway.
      - How was your day? - Stalin asked.
      “Amazing, Mr. Koba,” answered Kolchak, contented, “Semyon Mikhailovich, as the living now say, an outstanding showman!” So much fun!
      “To whom it is fun, and to whom not,” the marshal answered gloomily, sitting down in a chair.
      “Imagine, Koba,” said the commander of the First Horse. - The guys and the White Guards are supposed to brutally drown us in the sea! And now they are considered almost all saints, and therefore do not drown! We are at the bottom, and they are at the surface! We are back to the bottom, and they are back to the surface! And happy, you bastards! Diving, they say! But after all, until you drown them, the task for the day does not count! But Kolchak is sitting on the beach and having fun!
      “Well, and how did it end?” - clarified Kalinin.
      “The dear Marshal has shown ingenuity,” Kolchak answered for Budyonny. “They began to dive with the executed to the bottom and keep them there, until the Observers counted the crime for them!” So slowly the program of the day and worked!
      Budyonny was gloomy silent.
      “Don't be upset, Senya,” Kalinin supported his comrade. “You know, not only holiness, but also something else does not sink!”
      “And for a man with paisse, you are extremely witty,” retorted Kalinina’s hairpin Kolchak.
      Stalin finished with food and finished the rest of the chachi.
      The next day in this afterlife was coming to an end. The work was over, and the villains and victims, many times exchanging places here with each other, went home, quietly exchanging impressions. Female moans subsided and in Beria’s bedroom - the NKVD executioner, as always, complied with his rape norm.
      1. Roman 1977
        Roman 1977 9 November 2014 02: 44
        0
        Rasputin's head appeared in the doorway:
        - Kolya, your wife is looking for you, she says, you missed two prayers!
        Everyone looked sympathetically at the king.
        “And Yurovsky is mocking me,” sobbed Nicholas II. - He writes on the door of filth: "The king is a saint and a potent." He is a villain, everything is possible for him!
        “Yes, okay, Kolya, what are you doing?” Stalin left the table and hugged the last emperor. “Still someday changing.” This is our Russia, they there regularly change their opinion about us! Maybe tomorrow you’re going to rape the girls instead of Beria!
        - True? Asked the king’s leader with childish hope.
        “Well, of course,” Stalin reassured Nikolai. “Well, gentlemen, comrades, will we sing?”
        And they together tightened:
        Call me with you,
        I'll come through the evil nights
        I'll go after you
        Whatever the way I prophesied
        I'll come to where you are
        Draw the sun in the sky
        Where are the broken dreams
        Gain height power again.


        http://alternathistory.org.ua/posleistoricheskii-protsess-fantastika
        1. Baloo
          Baloo 10 November 2014 21: 47
          0
          Stupidly and mediocre it turned out in Roman 1977. Do you know how to do anything useful?
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  43. Leonidych
    Leonidych 9 November 2014 04: 57
    +3
    graphomanian blah blah began ....
  44. 020205
    020205 9 November 2014 05: 28
    +1
    Quote: Thompson
    Teach history so you don’t get nonsense!

    What is this shovel?
    1. s1н7т
      s1н7т 9 November 2014 17: 13
      +1
      Quote: 020205
      What is this shovel?


      Judging by the phraseology, it’s useless to teach you, relax laughing
  45. RUSS
    RUSS 9 November 2014 09: 28
    +1
    The article is empty, Semin is an ordinary journalist, the Bolshevik rhetoric and slogans again prevail in the comments, in general, nothing new .... hi


    PS Article minus.
  46. The comment was deleted.
  47. Ermak
    Ermak 9 November 2014 12: 50
    +1
    In such a huge country as the Russian Empire, only at the expense of the peasantry and Cossacks did the territory develop, so it makes no sense to compare its proportions (peasantry and urban population) with European countries that were even smaller than the Russian provinces. In addition, the development of agricultural products of that time can only be envied now. Yes, and about technical backwardness here you can still argue. I'm not talking about those. progress in everything in the world, which strided by leaps and bounds and perhaps it could be compared with a growing child, whose body parts are not always proportional. All of Europe (including Russia) was on the verge of change. Than Russia was worse than the author did not prove, only a personal opinion was heard.
  48. Thompson
    Thompson 9 November 2014 17: 11
    0
    Quote: 020205
    Quote: Thompson
    Teach history so you don’t get nonsense!

    What is this shovel?

    Not. Today's! Shovel story compared to the present, an innocent child! Strange people. I believe it, I do not believe it. And what is the criterion? Believe what is closer to me in spirit?
    Well, look, the Ukrainians have already BELIEVED a modern interpretation of history! Should we follow them? The only criteria that gave rise to the revolution is not Lenin and his team, but the well-being of the people, or rather, their dysfunction! Well-fed villas will not take and will not go into battle! Ukraine again an example!
  49. Thompson
    Thompson 9 November 2014 22: 33
    +1
    Quote: Balu
    Dear Thompson, I can agree with you. One lecture was a turning point for me. In the city, there was already a struggle between gangsters, shootings, and the "asphalt" was being shared. A lecturer from the regional committee: young people are starting fights,
    ny-ny-ny ...
    The people were indignant. A small group of officers sat in the hall, only they turned their heads and looked closely at the indignant. It became clear that a lie, an outright lie.
    Subsequently, through the media there was information that the head of the largest group "Tyaplyap" (from the area of ​​the Teplocontrol plant) was a former opera house, even a photo of him was shown on TV many years later. Probably also happened in other cities.
    Comparing the mechanisms of "revolutions" that are arranged by macaques from Fashington all over the world and that period of the formation of street gangs and their merging with corrupt legalists, we involuntarily ask for parallels in our time, in particular with Ukraine.

    I will say even more - I was lucky to catch the echoes of the true communists, patriots, people of the old school who were happy for the cause and idea, but alas, they were already old. And all the newly-born pseudo-communists were just vomiters and grabbers who knew that without a membership card you could not climb up! And the collapse of the USSR and the delivery of party tickets is a clear confirmation of this! Yeltsin’s example and ... Farion confirmation of this!
    With uv! hi
  50. Erg
    Erg 9 November 2014 22: 37
    0
    The article is a huge minus. The author of the reasons for the "revolution" did not indicate. The material is not acceptable for a reader who already has a certain baggage of information. I'll try in one phrase. On the example of Ukraine. "Could Yanukovych Become a Maidanist?" wassat