Military Review

Plans for the construction of the Great Turan and the domination of the "superior race"

35
Part of 1; Part 2

Dictatorship of the Young Turks

Having regained power, the Young Turks launched a bloody terror campaign against their political rivals and outlawed all political parties. From that moment until the defeat of the Ottoman Empire, the Union and Progress Party remained the only legal political force in the country. Since the end of 1913, the Young Turk dictatorship has been established in Turkey.

All the reins of power were in the hands of the three most prominent figures of the Ittihadists - Enver, Talaat and Jemal. Under the pressure of the Young Turks, the War Minister, Marshal Ahmed Izzet Pasha, resigned (he was opposed to involving Turkey in the war). This post was taken by Enver Pasha. He also became the head of the General Staff, thus concentrating in his hands the full power of military power. Enver Pasha (Ismail Enver) made an amazing career. Being a mother Albanian, Enver was born in the family of an employee of public works. After graduating from elementary and secondary schools, Enver entered the military lyceum in the city of Monastir. Upon completion of studies received the rank of lieutenant. He continued his military career at the Military Academy of the General Staff, graduating in 1903 with the rank of captain. Already a major, in 1906, he became an Ittihadist. When the uprising began in July 1908, Enver immediately joined him and organized a detachment of several thousand people. During the Young Turk Revolution, Enver, on her wave, became one of the heroes (became titled "The Hero of Freedom", he was even compared to Napoleon). The sudden fame and apparent ease of success gave Enver faith in his “special destiny” and “divine destiny”. True, unlike the real Napoleon, Enver did not have his talents.

Enver became a military attache and spent two years in Berlin. After studying the German army, he became her admirer and a staunch Germanophile (in the initial period, most of the Ittihadists were oriented toward England). In January, 1913 Mr. Enver became one of the leaders of the military coup, who returned power to the Young Turks and established their dictatorship. It should be noted that after the defeat of Turkey in the First World War, Enver fled to Germany, then with the help of the prominent Bolshevik Karl Radek he ended up in Soviet Russia. He met with the leader of the Bolsheviks Ulyanov, hatched plans for the unification of Bolshevism and Islam in the fight against England. Later, being the envoy of Moscow in Central Asia, Enver-pasha, decided that the Bolsheviks did not need him and once again abruptly changed his fate, joined the basmachis. In one of the fights with the Red Army Enver found death, his head was cut down.

But this was still far away. "Turkish Napoleon" was at the height of glory. At first he shuffled the commanding personnel. Devotee devotees were posted at key posts. In January, 1914 was dismissed from the army around 300 generals and senior officers, their place was taken by young officers, Enver's appointees. As a man immensely ambitious, Enver eliminated all civil and military officials he disliked.

In foreign policy, Enver focused on Germany. With him, Otto Lyman von Sanders, appointed in 1913, the head of the German military mission in the Ottoman Empire, established control over the Turkish armed forces. The German government during this period hatched far-reaching plans for the creation of the "Great Reich", which included the involvement of the Ottoman Empire with the German sphere of influence. Until Germany gained full power, Berlin pretended to be an ally of Istanbul and expressed readiness to preserve the territorial integrity of the Ottoman Empire. Foreign Minister von Yagov said that this would continue until "we strengthened our zones and were ready for annexations." Enver Pasha and the Turkish Inspector General Liman von Sanders provided Germany with a dominant influence not only in the military field, but in the political life of the empire.

Plans for the construction of the Great Turan and the domination of the "superior race"

Enver Pasha, accompanied by a German officer on the way to the Romanian front

Other members of the Young Turk triumvirate, Talaat Pasha and Djemal Pasha, were in line with the ambitious careerist and intriguer. Mehmed Talaat Pasha was pomak by origin (pomaks are Islamized Bulgarians). His father was an investigator. After graduating from high school in Edirne, Talaat began his career as a telegraph office employee. He joined the Ittihadists. For political activity, he was arrested, was released two years later and sent to Thessaloniki, where he again joined the Young Turks and entered the Masonic Lodge of Macedonia Resort.

It should be noted that many educated Young Turks, especially in emigration (in France) were members of Masonic lodges, and generally implemented their plans to eliminate the "obsolete", in their opinion, absolutist monarchies, empires and the establishment of "democratic" regimes. In this, the Young Turks were similar to the Russian revolutionaries who destroyed the Russian Empire in February 1917. Many Russian liberal figures, Duma members, aristocrats, generals, financiers, bankers and lawyers were members of various masonic, "network" structures and conducted subversive work. And many used in the dark, they sincerely believed that they would build a better, free Russia (Turkey).

The Young Turk Revolution opened the way for the heights of a career for a small postal official. Talaat, after the Young Turk of 1908, was elected a member of the Majlis, and also continued Masonic activity, establishing the Masonic Lodge “Hyurve Kabul Edilmish” in Istanbul. He served as Minister of Post and Telegraph. Talaat was one of the main organizers of the 23 coup d’état in January 1913 and occupied one of the key posts in the state, became Minister of the Interior. Talaat Pasha was also the chairman of the Central Committee of the Young Turks party.

Ahmed Jemal Pasha was born into a military medical family. He graduated from the higher military school Kuleli, then the Istanbul Military Academy. Entered military service, where he became a member of the movement "Union and Progress." From 1909, the governor of Adana, from 1911 - Baghdad. He headed the security service in Istanbul, and then received a portfolio of Minister of Public Works. During the Balkan Wars 1912-1913 years. commanded a division. In 1913, he became the commander of the 1 Army Corps, and then the Navy Minister. Cemal, unlike other Young Turkish leaders, was a supporter of an alliance with the Entente, especially with France. Shortly before the war, he founded a committee of French-Turkish rapprochement in Istanbul and until the last time tried to form an alliance with France.

The members of the triumvirate were united not only by endless ambition, they were all strong supporters of the doctrine of Ottomanism - the forced Turkishization of the non-Turkish peoples of the empire, but also supporters of Pan-Islamism and Pan-Turkism. All this led to the deportation and genocide of Armenians and, to a lesser extent, other empire Christians during the war years.

Young Turkish dictatorship did not lead to the stabilization of the Ottoman Empire. The economic situation continued to deteriorate. Sharply increased dependence on the Western powers. Only dependence on England and France began to be replaced by dependence on Germany. German banks took root in the Ottoman Empire, German schools, missionary societies were built. There was a construction of the Baghdad road. During the period from 1909 to 1914, the Ottoman Empire made foreign loans for almost 50 million lire, which exceeded the amount of similar loans for almost 120 of previous years. There is a huge deficit of the state budget and the balance of foreign trade The Young Turks could not solve a single serious economic problem. The country went to war in complete frustration.


Mehmed Talaat Pasha

Young Turks Choose Allies

Enver and Talaat were ardent Germanophiles, and Cemal wanted to focus on France. However, the Turkish liberal nationalists did not enjoy special respect in Europe, where they deservedly had a reputation as a marginal movement. In addition, Turkey was an extremely weak power, it was not taken into account. The country's economy was weak, as was the army. And the Porta leadership itself was not competent enough.

Back in 1911, the Young Turks tried to form an alliance with England, but were refused. In Europe, it was then believed that the Young Turks were temporary workers. The British preferred to focus on conservative politicians who wanted to restore a strong sultan's power. In May 1914, Minister of the Interior Talaat Pasha arrived on a visit to the Russian Empire. He probed the ground for a possible union of Turkey and Russia. At a meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Sazonov, held in Crimea, Talaat conveyed assurances of friendship and good intentions from Sultan Mehmed V to the Russian Tsar and informed about the possibility of concluding a union agreement. However, the Russian government showed no interest in such a union. Distrust of the Young Turks had an effect. In Petersburg, they knew about Enver's sympathies for the Germans, about the active cooperation of Germany and Turkey and the actions of the German mission in Istanbul.

In July, 1914, after the Sarajevo assassination, Jemal Pasha traveled to France: officially - to attend maritime maneuvers, in reality - to ascertain the conditions for the accession of the Ottoman Empire to the Entente. However, the conditions put forward by Jemal, in particular, the provision of French Porte guarantees against possible claims of Russia, did not meet with sympathy from the French leadership, which at that time was preparing for a visit to the Russian Empire. Frankofil, maritime minister Jemal Pasha were greatly disappointed. The positions of the pro-German party were strengthened.

The pro-German party led by Enver believed that the German Empire, which needed an ally in the struggle against Russia, a strategic bridgehead on the Black Sea, on the approaches to the Caucasus, Persia and Egypt (the Suez Canal) and the food base, is interested in a strong Turkey and has no plans for its dismemberment and transformation into its colony. In the end, on July 22, the Minister of War, without the consent of most of the government members who still doubted the need for war on the German side, proposed to the German ambassador von Wangenheim to conclude a military alliance. The German ambassador in Istanbul, after consulting with von Sanders, did not want to conclude such an alliance. Turkey was a dubious ally. However, in Berlin, thought differently. The German emperor noted in the margins of the telegram: “Theoretically true, but at the moment inappropriate. Now it’s about getting every rifle that can shoot at the Slavs in the Balkans on the side of Austria-Hungary. Therefore, we must agree to the Turkish-Bulgarian alliance with the annexation of Austria-Hungary. This is still better than for theoretical reasons to push Turkey to the side of the Entente ... ".

2 August 1914 (that is, the day after Germany declared war on Russia) a secret German-Turkish treaty of alliance was signed. Turkey was obliged to join the war if the Russian Empire intervened in the conflict between Serbia and Austria-Hungary, and Germany would side with Austria. The Turkish army was transferred to the full disposal of Germany. The agreement was so secret that the agreement was not even submitted for familiarization to many members of the Turkish government.


Ahmed Jemal Pasha

Turkey enters the war

2 August The Ottoman Empire began to mobilize. 3 August general mobilization began. Hundreds of thousands of people were divorced from peaceful labor. Within three days, all men between the ages of 20 and 45 were to appear at the mobilization points. Over a million people moved to their home posts. The mobilization department was organized poorly, so the huge masses of the peasants, who had been torn off from their plots for agriculture, were idle for weeks without food and shelter in the cities, awaiting admission to the soldiers. Some of the people were eventually sent back (there were an abundance of men), others deserted and hid from the authorities for a long time, having increased the ranks of vagrants and criminals. But the most important thing was that the country's agriculture, which was already in distress, was put on the brink of disaster. Mobilization of men, transport and working livestock, endless extortion for the needs of the army - all this led to a sharp decline in agricultural production.

Mobilization was completed on September 25 1914. The Ottoman Empire deployed seven armies. The 1, 2, and 5 armies are between Adrianople, Istanbul, Dardanelles and Smyrna for the defense of the shores of the Black Sea, the Dardanelles and the capital; 3 Army - in Turkish Armenia for actions against Russia; 4 Army - on the Mediterranean coast to protect Palestine and Syria; 6 th army - in Mesopotamia to cover the paths from the Persian Gulf along the Tigris and Euphrates rivers; Arabian army on the northern shore of the Red Sea. In all armies there were up to 537 battalions. The most powerful was the 3 Army (190 battalions), deployed against Russia. The plan of warfare developed by the German Colonel von Schellendorf provided for two main directions of the offensive of the Turkish troops. The 3 Army was to attack in the Caucasus, and the 4 Army to attack Egypt.

In the first three months of the war, the Ottoman Empire maintained neutrality. This explained the need to gain time to complete the mobilization and the doubts of the part of the Turkish leadership. At the same time, the Young Turks continued to negotiate with the Entente powers. This well characterized the adventurous nature of the Turkish elite. Having signed an agreement with Germany, Enver led negotiations with the Russian ambassador and military agent, offering them to conclude a military alliance against Germany. Enver tried to convince General Leontyev that Turkey is not bound by an agreement with Germany and feeds the most friendly feelings towards Russia. He proposed to send the Turkish army against the enemies of Russia. For the "friendship" Enver asked to return to Turkey part of the Bulgarian Thrace and the Aegean Islands. However, in Petersburg they did not believe in the sincerity of the Young Turks. In addition, Foreign Minister Sazonov was afraid to push Bulgaria into the arms of Germany.

10 August changed the balance of power on the Black Sea. Before the war, the Ottoman Empire had an extremely weak fleet: 3 armored cruisers (“Hayreddin Barbarus”, “Torgut Reis”, “Mouini Zader”), 2 light cruisers (“Hamidiye”, “Majidiye”), 2 mine cruisers, 8 crucibles, 7 escar. , 10 torpedo boats and other vessels. Virtually all ships are outdated and were not ready for a modern war. The situation was aggravated by the poor technical condition of the ships, and the abominable combat training of the crews. Turkey ordered two new ships in England, but with the start of the war the British confiscated them. 1914 August 1915, the Göben battleship and the Breslau light cruiser, under the command of Wilhelm Souchon, who avoided collision with superior enemy forces, arrived in Constantinople. There is a version that the British deliberately missed the German ships so that the Russian Black Sea Fleet could not immediately block the Bosphorus and be able to conduct a landing operation to seize Constantinople. Only the commissioning of the battleship "Empress Maria" in XNUMX, dramatically changed the balance of forces on the Black Sea in favor of Russia. Prior to that, the Russian command had to take into account the danger of the newest German cruisers.

Turkey was officially a neutral state bound by international treaties that did not allow it to pass the warships of other powers through the straits, therefore, on August 16, the Goeben and Breslau were officially handed over to the Turkish Navy to varnish the arrival of German ships. They received the names "Yavuz Sultan Selim" and "Midilly." At the same time, the crews remained German, and the questions of the leadership of the Turkish Navy were concentrated in the hands of the German admirals Sushon, von Usedom and von Reber-Paschwitz. Thus, Germany radically strengthened the leadership and composition of Turkish fleet. The German Empire took control not only of the army, but also of the Turkish fleet. Arrived in Turkey and the corresponding technical staff.

The Entente protested, but not too vigorously, fearing a break in relations with Turkey. Russia, in order to delay, and possibly prevent, Turkey’s side with Germany, but offered to guarantee her territorial integrity. In addition, it was proposed to return the island of Limnos to the Turks. There were other possible territorial concessions. Sazonov took into account the fact that without significant territorial concessions the Ottoman Empire would not make an agreement with the Entente powers. However, this proposal came up against the resistance of Britain. Ostensibly defending the interests of Greece, Lord Gray refused to hand over to the Ottomans Lemnos. True, the guarantee of territorial integrity to give England agreed (during the current war). This was not enough to interest the Young Turkish government. With the victory of Germany, before Turkey, more attractive prospects opened up.

While the question of Turkey’s participation in the war remained open, the Young Turks decided to take a moment to strengthen their positions inside the country by canceling the capitulation regime. That was the name of the regime in which foreigners, their firms were withdrawn from the action of local jurisdiction and submitted to the jurisdiction of their consuls. September 9 Istanbul has informed all powers that from October 1 the surrender regime will be canceled. However, this decision faced a collective resistance not only to the Entente powers, but also to Germany and the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Ambassadors of all powers handed protest notes. The surrender talks continued throughout September. Soon Germany and Austria-Hungary were forced to agree with the decision of the ports in order to maintain their military-political and economic positions in Turkey.

After the defeat of the German armies on the Marne and the defeat of the Austro-Hungarian troops in the Battle of Galicia, it became clear that there would be no lightning war. Therefore, the Germans stepped up the process of involving Turkey in the war. In October, the German Empire granted Porte a loan. At the same time, it was stipulated that the Ottoman Empire would enter the war as soon as it received a portion of the money. The German loan promptly entered the accounts of Deutsche Bank in Constantinople. Everything was ready for the beginning of the war: the troops were mobilized, the strait was mined, the coastal fortifications of the straits were strengthened. However, the government dragged on time and there was no direct order to speak.

Many members of the Turkish government still doubted. Among the doubters was the Grand Vizier, Side Halim Pasha. Germany’s failures in France and the defeat of Austria-Hungary on the Eastern Front further reinforced these fears. The situation was in a dangerous suspense. Therefore, the war party decided to go all-in and organized a provocation with the attack of the German-Turkish fleet, fully controlled by the Germans, on the Russian coast. Enver Pasha, as the Minister of War of Turkey, issued a secret order that was agreed upon with the Germans: “The Ottoman fleet must win supremacy on the Black Sea. Find the Russian fleet and attack it without declaring war where you will find it. ” The Turkish government decided to face a fait accompli. 29-30 October 1914 German-Turkish fleet appeared in the territorial waters of Russia, fired at Sevastopol, Odessa, Feodosia and Novorossia, drowned and damaged several civilian and military ships.

There were no serious military consequences of this operation (the German command dispersed forces and the blows were weak), but the political and strategic results were serious. The Turkish government was frightened by the provocation of Enver and Sushona, and many ministers resigned. The grand vizier tried to save the world, apologized to St. Petersburg. Russia demanded the immediate expulsion of all Germans from Turkey. The Grand Vizier could not fulfill this requirement. 2 November 1914 Russia declared war on Porte. 5 and 6 November, the war of Turkey was declared by England and France. The provocation has reached its goal.



Strategic implications

Turkey’s entry into the war seriously worsened the position of the Entente. The Entente powers clearly underestimated the possibilities, although extremely weakened, but of the strategic position of the Ottoman Empire, which could put pressure on Russia and England. In fact, Turkey sacrificed itself to prolong the war. The Suez (Sinai) Front was opened against England, the Caucasian Front against Russia. Later, the Mesopotamian and Balkan fronts appeared. The sphere of war has seriously expanded. A new Asian-Turkish theater of war appeared.

This distracted part of the forces of Russia, England from Germany. Russia had to send troops to the Caucasus and to defend the Black Sea coast. In addition, the straits through which more than half of Russian exports passed were blocked for Russia; this was a serious blow to the economy of the empire. The naval link of Russia with the Allies on the Entente through the Black and Mediterranean seas was broken.

The position of Serbia has deteriorated dramatically. Serbia was in the path of direct communication between Germany, Austria-Hungary and Turkey. With the defeat of Serbia, Germany received direct access to the straits, Turkish raw materials. Through Turkey, Germany could have an impact on Egypt, Persia and the Caucasus.



Great Turan

Ittihadists, despite the degradation of the country, believed that the military-political revenge and the revival of the greatness of Porta would solve all the problems. Pan-Turkism proclaimed the superiority of the “Turkic race”. And among the leaders of the Young Turks there were almost no purebred Turks. Most of them were raznochintsy, exits from the refreshed Bulgarians, Albanians, Greeks, Jews, immigrants from the Caucasus, etc. But such a discrepancy did not bother them at all.

In addition, many party leaders were freemasons, and it was difficult to call them real Muslims. So, it is believed that Talaat Pasha, Enver Pasha, Jemal Pasha, who called themselves "defenders of Islam", were in fact atheists. Young Turks were raised on the basis of European culture, they lived in a European way, very often violated Sharia laws. Pan-Islamism was for the masses, who were supposed to become cannon fodder of the Ittihadists.

The ideologues of Pan-Islamism argued that the primacy in the world should belong to Muslims. All Muslims were supposed to unite around the Caliph, that is, the Turkish Sultan. This should have led to the domination of the world. The Young Turks' main goal was to create the Great Turan. Young Turkish ideologues recalled that in the 6th century there existed a Turkic kaganate, the former one of the largest stories humanity of the ancient states in Asia. It consisted of the territories of North China (Manchuria), Mongolia, Altai, East Turkestan, West Turkestan (Central Asia) and the North Caucasus. A huge state formation stretched from the Pacific Ocean to the Black Sea. Turkey declared heir to the giant kaganat.

Ittihadists cherished plans of domination over all Turkic peoples. One of the main ideologists of Pan-Turkism, Z. Gelkap, noted: "The political boundaries of the Turks' homeland cover the whole territory where Turkic speech is heard and where Turkic culture exists." At the same time, the Turks were proclaimed the "purebred highest race", which is designed to dominate all nations. Soldiers brought up in the hatred of the "infidels." They had to be ruthless, kill children, women, old people and the sick.

It was believed that in the East, in Asia there are boundless spaces and opportunities for expansion and development of the Ottoman Empire. It was proposed to liberate the Turkic-speaking peoples of the Transcaucasus and Turkestan from the “Russian yoke”. The Turks had to fulfill the "sacred duty", carrying out the unification of the Turkic peoples from the Caspian and Black to the Yellow Sea.

Particularly "advanced" Young Turk ideologists went even further. They established the kinship of the Ottomans with the Huns and Ugric peoples. Therefore, they proposed to include in the Great Turan the lands of Hungary, the whole of the Volga region and Finland. One of the Young Turks, Tekin Alps, in the book “Turan” put forward a program of minimum and maximum. "Mini-Turan" was supposed to cover the land up to Kazan and Lake Baikal. The maximum program, in the second stage of the expansion of the Great Turan, covered lands up to Scandinavia, the Arctic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean. All this was to be won by “fire and sword,” the era of the “new Genghis Khan” was proclaimed. True, the government understood that Turkey was weak for such an expansion, so the start of a global war for supremacy of a “superior race” was to begin in 1925.

Before that, they hoped to crush Russia with the help of Germany and Austria-Hungary and to master its lands with a Turkic population. The Caucasus and Central Asia were to be the first conquests, the springboards for further expansion. The Caucasus and Central Asia before the war were flooded with Turkish emissaries acting under the guise of pilgrims, travelers and merchants. They conducted propaganda, established contacts with anti-Russian forces, organized subversive centers. The Russian gendarmerie during this period reported on the creation of pan-Islamist schools, newspapers, and printing houses in a number of cities in the empire. Turkish officers spied and carried out subversive activities in Russia.

A special department of the office of the Caucasian governor presented a report on pan-Islamism as a new danger that threatened Russia: “The teaching of pan-Islamism, given the large number of the Mohammedan population of the region, is an undoubted political danger for Russia ...” This conclusion has now become relevant again. Only now the planet is threatened by Islamists (Wahhabis, jihadists), who are a tool in the hands of the owners of the western project. With the help of the Islamists launch the process of global war. Eurasia and Africa, and part of the Pacific region, are becoming a battlefield.

Sources:
Aliyev G. Z. Turkey during the rule of the Young Turks. M., 1972.
Zalessky K.A. Who was who in the First World War. M., 2003.
A. Kolenkovsky. The Maneuvering Period of the First World Imperialist War 1914, M., 1940 // http://militera.lib.ru/h/kolenkovsky_ak2/index.html.
Petrosyan Yu. Ottoman Empire. M., 2013.
Shambarov V. The Last Battle of the Emperors. M., 2013.
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  1. Gray-haired Siberian
    Gray-haired Siberian 7 November 2014 08: 05
    +5
    I always like the historical articles of this author - intelligibly and on the topic! Plus, definitely!
    1. gsg95588
      gsg95588 7 November 2014 10: 28
      +2
      Very accurate observation by the author.
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 7 November 2014 08: 12
    +11
    They established family ties between the Ottomans and the Huns and Ugric peoples. Therefore, they proposed to include in the Great Turan the lands of Hungary, the entire Volga region and Finland... It seems that since 1991, Young Ukrainians have dug in the Ukraine ... methods the same ...
    1. Humpty
      Humpty 7 November 2014 08: 24
      +9
      Quote: parusnik
      They established family ties between the Ottomans and the Huns and Ugric peoples. Therefore, they proposed to include in the Great Turan the lands of Hungary, the entire Volga region and Finland ..

      It turns out the Turks are Estonians, originally. But the Turks and now delirium of greatness did not leave. And yet, not a single large non-Turkic people who have been in the Ottoman Empire for centuries have not switched to Turkish.
      1. avt
        avt 7 November 2014 08: 52
        +3
        Quote: Humpty
        It turns out the Turks are Estonians, originally

        Well, the Hungarians have already realized their "Turkic roots", even Nazarbayev was chosen as some kind of main Turk. laughing The campaign was decided that he would throw money to them for the joy of it.
      2. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 7 November 2014 10: 33
        -4
        Quote: Humpty
        It turns out the Turks are Estonians, originally.


        Galina Shuke wrote the book "Were the Latvians Turkic?
        The Phenomenon of Discovery of the Turkic Substratum of the Baltic States ".
        And by the way, she has "an analysis that asserts that the Latvian and Russian languages ​​grew out of the Türkic languages, and thus identifies the Balto-Slavic proto-language with the Türkic languages. Galina Shuke expresses the opinion developed in her work that“ the Türkic language is closer to the cradle of humanity, than any other language. ”In essence, this statement equates the hypothetical Nostratic language with the Türkic languages ​​.." laughing
        Quote: Humpty
        And yet, not a single large Turkic people who have been in the Ottoman Empire for centuries has switched to Turkish.
        I'm certainly not in the subject, but where did the Byzantines go? For me, the majority of Turks are assimilated by the local population ..
        Quote: Humpty
        But the Turks and now delirium of greatness did not leave.
        Yes lan, here on "VO" you read such nonsense))
        And as for the Turks, their ambitions grow along with the development of their state.
        Now it’s quite a regional power ..
        Quote: avt
        Well, the Hungarians have already realized their "Turkic roots"
        Gyorgy Nanovsky: “The Congress of Finno-Ugrians is more significant for Hungary than the Kurultai of the Turkic peoples”
        According to D. Nanovsky, relatives of the Finno-Ugric peoples do not worry about the change of the ethnocultural paradigm of the Hungarians. “Kurultay is a community of Asian nations, steppe peoples who ride horses - such as Kazakhs, Uzbeks, and some others. We are Finno-Ugric in language. Once upon a time, the Hungarians were a nomadic people, lived side by side with the Iranians, Tatars ... But this is not akin to the language. The Finno-Ugric Congress is more important for the Hungarians, ”he said.
        So ugro-Russ uzbahytes, Hungarians remain Ugric. Just besides the Finno-Ugric roots, they definitely have Proto-Turkic ..
        By the way, here the IOC bends Kazakhstan for holding gay pride parades and respecting the rights of all, including homosexuals and lesbians .. Otherwise, de Kazakhs will not see the Olympics in Almaty-2020. lol
        1. Humpty
          Humpty 7 November 2014 12: 37
          +2
          [quote = Alibekulu] "Hungarians remain Ugrians. Just in addition to Finno-Ugric roots, they certainly have pro-Türkic roots .." [/ quote]

          It is very possible, even though the Hungarians are not belmes, but they are reacting to profanity in Kyrgyz.
          [quote = Alibekulu]
          "Galina Shuke wrote a book ..."

          etc. The fact that certain Russian words are understood by the Kurd, and the Hindu priest in general Russian language, does not make the Kurds, Russians and Hindus the closest relatives. Borrowings from all are full.
          1. megapatriot
            megapatriot 7 November 2014 18: 08
            0
            about the Hindu priest is a joke, apparently?
          2. avt
            avt 7 November 2014 21: 06
            +1
            Quote: Humpty
            y, and the Hindu priest in general Russian language

            Quote: megapatriot
            about the Hindu priest is a joke, apparently?

            Why, then, Sanskrit speakers completely understand the meaning in the Russian language, well, if you don’t use the Newspeak profitable, but express yourself literaryly, in the style of the 19th century. Tested on the Indians empirically laughing , I myself read about this in the Soviet "Technology of Youth", but in 90 I really ran into this - I came across a couple of Indians, educated but not studying in the USSR, in a relaxed state they somehow talked about the topic with the help of a translator and an English dialect. added to the saskrit the Lithuanian language, in addition to the Belarusian and Ukrainian, in this order of approximation, in his opinion.
        2. Nagaibak
          Nagaibak 7 November 2014 18: 25
          +1
          Alibekulu "Of course, I'm not in the subject, but where did the Byzantines go? For me, the Turks in their bulk, the assimilated local population .."
          The Byzantines are Greeks. This is a nation-forming nation. Turks came somewhere in the 11th century on the peninsula of Asia Minor. Then came the Ottomans. The Turks tried to assimilate the Greeks, some of their blood in the Turks is available.
      3. Zymran
        Zymran 7 November 2014 11: 03
        +4
        Quote: Humpty
        And yet, not a single large Turkic people who have been in the Ottoman Empire for centuries has switched to Turkish.


        Well, so tolerance. The Ottomans had a good system of government until all corruption fell apart.
      4. ilyaros
        ilyaros 7 November 2014 12: 56
        +1
        Millions of modern Turks are descendants of Armenians, Greeks, Slavs, Kurds, Georgians, etc. who have just switched to Turkic, Turkicized and Islamized Armenians.
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 7 November 2014 16: 11
          +2
          Alibek, Olympics in 2022. Remained from the pretenders of Beijing and Almaty. And how will the Chinese bend? hi
          1. avt
            avt 7 November 2014 21: 12
            0
            Quote: Kasym
            Olympics in 2022. Remained from the pretenders of Beijing and Almaty.

            hi Yeah !? I somehow missed it, and somehow the media do not cover it very much ... However, it will be interesting - lovers of symbolism simply do not let "win" the venue of the planetary show.
          2. Yeraz
            Yeraz 7 November 2014 22: 58
            +3
            Quote: Kasym
            Alibek, Olympics in 2022. Remained from the pretenders of Beijing and Almaty.

            Let Almaty win, I really want to go there.
          3. Alibekulu
            Alibekulu 7 November 2014 23: 15
            +1
            Quote: Kasym
            Remained from the pretenders of Beijing and Almaty. And how will the Chinese bend?
            The Chinese will not bend, since they do not receive, this option is purely for us laughing The "Pope" is now in the Brezhnev period, he has given up a lot and has become very greedy for external, shiny attributes. "Autumn of the king" you understand .. recourse At the moment, the fix idea is the Nobel Prize. But they don’t give it all, therefore, to satisfy the senile vanity, the Olympics just right. And there they understand it ..
            Quote: Humpty
            It is very possible, even though the Hungarians are not belmes, but they are reacting to profanity in Kyrgyz.
            Duc Hungarians from our area .. For a long time they had legends about "Great Hungary", the legendary ancestral home - "Magna Hungaria". By the way, most likely this is Bashkiria .. From the wiki:
            Hungarian brother Julian in the 20-ies. XIII century during his journey, he met pagans who spoke Hungarian in one of the cities of the Volga. In the materials of Russian docs of the XV — XVI centuries, the Middle Volga and the Order, the ethnonym Mochars / Mozhars is mentioned, as a reflection of the ancient form of self-name of the Hungarians Magyars and is still preserving the ancient Hungarian self-name.
            The Kazakhs have a clan "ak majar" (white Hungarians)
            Quote: avt
            They have not played enough of Pan-Turkism by the youth of a state suddenly found in the 1991.
            You have a kick-ass about the "pan-Turkism of the Kazakhs" wink Although this is evidence that we have the potential .. good Once the "old imperial shark" talks about it soldier Not the clown Meehan after all. Not pan-Turkism, hypothetically, kaneshno cool sounds "From Mozha to Mozha" .. But, how ?! request Kazakhs are only 10 mulens. With such forces, something stir up only in your ravings. Unite?! With whom?? No. The Nogais who are closest in language and customs, and they shun. Kyrgyz ?! Which Kazakhs recognize as the closest and dearest ?! So they are now, in the internet, constantly trying to hook the Kazakhs. They have not forgiven us, our "well-being" .. sad Tatars ?! Duc they (Ugro-Türks) more and more with Ugro-Russians. Even Tatars and Kazakhs go to different mosques in Petropavlovsk .. So how can the Kazakhs master the role of "pan-Turkism" you offer ?! recourse
            1. Zymran
              Zymran 8 November 2014 13: 32
              +1
              Quote: Alibekulu
              They will not bend the Chinese, since they will not get it, this option is purely for us laughing The "Pope" is now in the Brezhnev period, he has given up a lot and has become very greedy for external, shiny attributes. "Autumn of the king" you understand .. recourse


              Instead of the elixir of youth, it would be better to look for a cure for Alzheimer's.
            2. Turkir
              Turkir 8 November 2014 20: 20
              +1
              old imperial sharks

              Is this about Genghis Khan?
  3. Prikaz4ikov1992
    Prikaz4ikov1992 7 November 2014 09: 15
    +2
    All the same, history is a prostitute in the service of politicians.
  4. buser
    buser 7 November 2014 11: 21
    0
    Doesn't it seem to you, dear readers of "VO", that there is a certain bias on the portal warrior in terms of publishing articles about pan-Turki3me ??? Can we balance them with articles about Pan-Slavs and Pan-Mongolians ??? AND??? Or other "panami" ??? For example, pan-German3mami for example? can I add a couple more pan: i3mov add ??? All these ideas of pan-Turkic, pan-Slavic and other panamas are HUNDRED YEARS FOR LUNCH !!! The Poles cannot tolerate the Russians, for example (to hide it) ... Do you think there is no rejection among the Turks ??? It’s crazy to read these articles ... (I’m telling you as a Turk ...)
    1. smile
      smile 7 November 2014 12: 14
      +3
      buser
      Don’t worry, everyone gets one by one .... :))) Or do you think, as a Turk, that it is the Turki that are inviolable? And why are they so happy, do not tell?
      And the dissatisfied Poles are absolutely on the drum for us, by the way, they are no better than the pan-Turkists - in any case, unquenched dreams - Polsk from Helsinki to Tifliss (yes, by the way, it turns out that many Turks - even those who are Latvian Turks - in your opinion, after all, the Poles :))) here are the two people of the hegemon ...) we are as pleased as the claim of some knocked-down pantyurs .... :))) And we don’t give a damn about those Poles, as well as the pantyurs from the high bell tower - I’m declaring it to you as a quarter Pole ... :))))) But this does not mean that we should be silent about the problem here and not notice their attitude to us and to Russia.
      By the way, I don’t know how the Turks do with you, but the Poles trynnyt on us on their sites. that this site in comparison with them can be recognized as a standard of tolerance and objectivity. By the way - I’ll tell you a secret - this is almost the case .... :)))))
      And if I'm sick of it, I can answer with words from an anecdote - "I don't like Chingachgook - don't eat!" :))) No, really, but who makes you read what you don't like? And then you become the characters of another anecdote, remember - "the mice cried, injected, but continued to eat the cactus" :))))
    2. avt
      avt 7 November 2014 21: 22
      +1
      Quote: buzer
      don't you think, dear readers of "VO", that there is a certain bias on the portal warrior in terms of publishing articles about pan-Turki3me ???

      Quote: smile
      Don’t worry, everyone gets one by one .... :))) Or do you think, as a Turk, that it is the Turki that are inviolable? And why are they so happy, do not tell?

      laughing They have not yet played enough of Pan-Turkism due to the youth of the state that they suddenly acquired in 1991, but because there are few of us, and there is only one trunk, "So they strive to lean against something so big and great. To the Empire? Then why the heck have been fencing a garden since 1991 And the “elites” have learned to live freely on the basis of the national idea, so they rush from “universal human values” and their carriers - the Naglo-Saxons, to Pan-Turkism, and Eurasianism, just in case.
    3. Turkir
      Turkir 8 November 2014 20: 22
      +1
      Poles endures0 can not Russian

      They do not like Germans either.
      They do not like the Orthodox, Catholics only love themselves.
  5. megapatriot
    megapatriot 7 November 2014 18: 01
    0
    if the Ottomans built such plans when they were in number as Belarusians, then what do they have in mind now that they are 60 million ???
    1. bekjan
      bekjan 9 November 2014 01: 07
      0
      In those years, in many countries the number was small.
  6. pinecone
    pinecone 7 November 2014 20: 04
    0
    Quote: megapatriot
    if the Ottomans built such plans when they were in number as Belarusians, then what do they have in mind now that they are 60 million ???


    In 2012 was 75.6 million.
    1. Yeraz
      Yeraz 7 November 2014 23: 05
      0
      Quote: pinecone
      In 2012 was 75.6 million.

      Well, subtract the Kurds from here.
      1. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak 8 November 2014 18: 20
        0
        Yeraz "Well, subtract the Kurds from here."
        More Laz, Nogais, etc., etc., Circassians of different calibers.)))
  7. Megatron
    Megatron 7 November 2014 22: 43
    +1
    Here and on our site there are Azero-podturechniks, one even has this "Turan" on Ave.
    1. Yeraz
      Yeraz 7 November 2014 23: 04
      0
      Quote: Megatron
      Here and on our site there are Azero-podturechniks, one even has this "Turan" on Ave.

      For you, fools, for us BROTHERS !! And we are one people. And the idea of ​​Turan will always be. For now it’s utopian, especially with the current leaders. And here the essence is not in territorial unity, but in cultural. Thanks to modern technologies, I allow you to be united in one space without breaking boundaries.

      The same 500 Azerbaijanis in Georgia, who make up the majority of the population of the East of Georgia, rarely hear calls to tear them off and join Azerbaijan, because it’s stupid. People calmly cross the border, watch Azerbaijani TV channels and have access to everything Azerbaijani. Is there a sense to separate them ?? even more.
      All these redrawing of borders will be true only in case of threat of physical destruction.
      1. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak 8 November 2014 18: 29
        +2
        Yeraz "For you podturechniki, for us BROTHERS !! And we are one people. And the idea of ​​Turan will always be."
        Very commendable optimism))) How many did not say anything positive about you (Azerbaijanis) with the Turks (Ottomans).))) You certainly won’t believe me.))) And okay .... I was surprised myself and asked, why are they about your fellow tribesmen so.))) If literally "a lot of deception from them" And this is the softest.))) So that you can talk about your brotherhood, but for me you wishful thinking.))) Well, Nitsche, Nitsche we are brothers with Ukrainians too.))))
        1. Yeraz
          Yeraz 9 November 2014 00: 00
          0
          Quote: Nagaibak
          You certainly won’t believe me.)))

          I’ll believe. In Azerbaijan, the blind are not blind. And everyone knows perfectly well about the traits that the Turks do not like, like the Turks, that they do not like.
          Unlike you, I am in Turkish society and know everything perfectly.
          Quote: Nagaibak
          Well, Nitsche, Nitsche, we are also brothers with the Ukrainians.))))

          Do not even compare closely, between us there is no arrogance of the eldest and younger.
          1. Nagaibak
            Nagaibak 9 November 2014 08: 32
            +1
            Yeraz "Don't even come close, there is no arrogance of the elder and the younger between us."
            I didn’t notice this. Turks (Ottomans) consider themselves superior to you all (Turks) and if they dream of a great Turan, then under their leadership.)))) I do not believe in fairy tales.))))
            Yeah, now ... they will share power with you.)))
            Yeraz "Unlike you, I am in Turkish society and know everything very well."
            Not being in Turkish society I know very well -Your mentality.))) I communicate with your countrymen and say what I think. It’s just that you are presenting us with your brotherhood, you sing such songs ... I understand that to put it mildly, not everything is quite so ....)))
            1. Yeraz
              Yeraz 9 November 2014 16: 53
              0
              Quote: Nagaibak
              I didn’t notice this. Turks (Ottomans) consider themselves above you all (Turks)

              So, in your words, the Turks all hate us, but in reality everything is different. Azerbaijanis really live in the cultural space of Turkey and very much in Russia, thanks to the Azerbaijanis of Russia and therefore are well aware of the real attitude to themselves and those and others. Do you communicate with Turks are single.
              There may be dreams about other Türks, because they do not communicate so much.
              The Turks do not have a self-esteem above all, they call Central Asia the land of their ancestors and their attitude is very respectful to them. And they directly call Asians their ancestors.
              I will say even more that the average Turks greatly overestimate the Central Asian Turks and many were shocked to find out what the Uzbeks are in Russia. Since the Turks on illusions build their own idea of ​​the Turks of Asia, since there really is no communication with them.
              Quote: Nagaibak
              It’s just that you are presenting us with your brotherhood, you sing such songs ... I understand that to put it mildly, not everything is quite so ....)))

              You understand this too perfectly, but our brotherhood is much stronger and higher than that of the Russians and other Slavs. There are some moments, but it does not make the weather. And there are reasons for all this, a huge number of non-Turks in Turkey itself, which affect this the weather.
              And in Azerbaijan everyone remembers perfectly with the help of whose army Azerbaijan was created after the collapse of the Russian Empire and this is not bragging, but a given
              And everyone in Azerbaijan knows that the Turks could not protect Azerbaijan at the mercy of the USSR and we know perfectly well that fraternity is fraternity, but Turkey itself was threatened with destruction.
              And about who will lead Turan, it would be foolish if Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan led it. Each Turkic country has its own potential and must be fair. But it’s difficult. Therefore, I say this is utopia. Until there is a cultural unity of Turan utopia. Azerbaijanis and Turks will easily give their daughters to each other, but try for a conditional Kyrgyz ?? It is unlikely that the Turkic brotherhood is more declarative than real here.
              1. Nagaibak
                Nagaibak 11 November 2014 08: 24
                +1
                Yeraz "So, according to your words, the Turks all hate us, but in reality everything is different. Azerbaijanis really live in the cultural space of Turkey and very much in Russia, thanks to the Azerbaijanis of Russia, and therefore they know perfectly well the real attitude towards themselves and those and others. communication with the Turks is rare. "
                1. I didn’t write that the Turks directly hate you.))) I wrote that they love themselves first of all. And I think you are no match for them. Sorry for the directness. Of course, my opinion is based on one-time communication, but it hurts my eyes.
                "The Turks do not consider themselves above everyone else, they call Central Asia the land of their ancestors and the attitude is very respectful to them. And they directly call Asians their ancestors."
                2. How they relate to the Uzbeks I saw in Istanbul myself - this is a contemptuous attitude.)))
                Yeraz "You understand this too perfectly, but our brotherhood is much stronger and higher than that of the Russians and other Slavs."
                These words ... higher brotherhood, lower brotherhood. You write that you live in a Russian environment.))) But you don’t know much Russian. Since you write that the Russians put themselves higher than the Ukrainians. In the north, we have a lot of Ukrainians. All communicate, make friends, get married. Why then did you get this. Just once seen somewhere? Russian people are ordinary people and they don’t put anyone above or below themselves. This and are strong. I do not take modern youth. Anything can be there. I now know one of your countryman, he lived in the Nizhny Novgorod region in the village. Then he went home, and he sent packages from the village to Azerbaijan with gifts and groceries.))) I don’t know where he is now, but I won’t be surprised that he drove back to the village.))) He really liked it there. He was going to quit and leave.)))
                Yeraz "And everyone in Azerbaijan knows that the Turks could not protect Azerbaijan at the mercy of the USSR."
                In my opinion, no one like them has robbed you. Exported under clean. And ordinary Azerbaijanis could not endure their soldiers for a long time. Looks like the behavior was not like with the brothers. And as in the occupied territory. Otherwise, the Azerbaijanis would have shown strong resistance to the Red Army. And no one really resisted. But you have your own opinion on this issue and I know it.))) Therefore, there is no point in arguing.))) I know one thing: if you unite Azerbaijan and Turkey under the leadership of the Turks (Ottomans), Azerbaijanis will soon be this state dissatisfied and will lead the struggle for separation in an independent state.)))
                Yeraz "An Azeri and a Turk will easily pass off their daughters for each other, but try to be a conditional Kyrgyz ?? Hardly, since here the Turkic brotherhood is more declarative than real."
                Here I agree with you and I have nothing to add. Only Russians can cope with the Kyrgyz.))) It's a joke, but there are a lot of interethnic marriages between Russians and Kazakhs and Kyrgyz .. I have a Kazakh maternal grandfather, for example. And he did not notice anything like the "arrogance" of the Russians. And with the Tatars and Bashkirs in general, especially in the north, and in their republics, there are many interethnic marriages. I have 2 Tartars at work. One of the tries is married to a Ukrainian woman. The second comes from Uzbekistan and Uzbeks, to put it mildly, he does not like.)))
                And one Russian is married to a Tatar.)))
    2. bekjan
      bekjan 9 November 2014 01: 08
      0
      Do not forget about the Armenian Genocide.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  8. bekjan
    bekjan 9 November 2014 01: 12
    0
    The Turks have already begun cultural expansion in the former camps of our USSR, and now the CIS. We must stop this in the bud.
  9. bekjan
    bekjan 9 November 2014 01: 14
    +1
    Our dad, Suvorov, with the Orthodox army showed all the Turkish janissaries "Kuzkin's mother" and crushed them to smithereens, I think the same will happen to today's Turks.
  10. Aydin
    Aydin 9 November 2014 08: 51
    0
    Quote: bekjan
    The Turks have already begun cultural expansion in the former camps of our USSR, and now the CIS. We must stop this in the bud.

    Better than the Turks than the Chinese, after some time the whole of Central Asia will be one big province of China, that's for sure, there’s no getting around it.