Military Review

Piranha military wheeled vehicles strengthen their position in the global market

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The newest version of the Piranha III, entered service in Switzerland, the machine for intelligence WMD. Filters for the analytical laboratory are clearly visible in the stern of the machine.


The adaptable Piranha combat vehicle was adopted and modified by countries such as Canada, Saudi Arabia and the United States to perform various tasks ranging from a command post to a bridge-laying vehicle. There is no doubt that at present, the family of wheeled combat vehicles Piranha from the consortium General Dynamics European Land Systems - MOWAG among all Western models in service is the most numerous in its class.

Despite the fact that Piranha was originally developed for operations in Europe, its flexibility (adaptability) was appreciated by users all over the world by adopting this vehicle. The total number of Piranha machines issued and included in the list is over 10 700; that is, its mass production will continue for several years.

This includes vehicles manufactured by General Dynamics Land Systems - Canada for the North American market, for example, the American Army’s Stryker BTR and its variants.

Today, production of Piranha is conducted in Canada, Switzerland (Piranha III) and the United States. Licensed production was also arranged in the Chilean company Cardoen (later FAMAE) and in the British GKN Defense, which delivered the cars to Saudi Arabia under a contract with MOWAG. The UK also supplied vehicles to the Kuwaiti National Guard, Oman and Qatar.

Canada not only manufactures the Stryker BTR family for the US Army, but also produces the previous Piranha II for the National Guard of Saudi Arabia.

Piranha was originally developed at its own expense by the Swiss company MOWAG (currently part of General Dynamics European Land Systems) as a family of light armored vehicles in 4x4, 6x6 and 8x8 configurations with excellent unification of self-propelled components that could be used for a wide range of combat missions and roles .

From the outset, the 6x6 configuration was popular in the domestic and international markets, but the last 18 years have been the 8x8 version, which has a larger volume and load capacity and can perform a wider range of tasks.

Some time ago, Sweden ordered a batch of Piranha 10x10 machines in a highly specialized configuration, but now all the machines on the market are focused on the current production model of the Piranha III in the 8x8 configuration.

Starting from the early stages, one of the key areas of the concept was the creation of a modular design that would easily adapt to the specific requirements of each customer.

As such, all Piranha III serial machines have the same basic package, but they are distinguished by considerable flexibility at the subsystem level; that is, they can be installed a variety of engines, transmissions, suspension systems, weapons systems, they can have different levels of protection and the location of the seats. All recent buyers place great emphasis on protection; Popular elements in this area are, for example, individual roofs and attached to the sides of the crew and landing forces. In addition, anti-splinter lining and hinged armor kits are almost mandatory. Most buyers also require much higher levels of protection against mines and improvised explosive devices (IEDs). On this basis, along with mounted passive armored panels, the Piranha III can also be equipped with lattice armor, dynamic protection units (DZ) or protection systems of various types.

Piranha military wheeled vehicles strengthen their position in the global market

The Belgian park Piranha IIIC is the basis of the modernized armed forces of this country

Heavyweights

All of the above components add weight and volume to the machine. The base weight of the Piranha III is usually around 16 tons, but the full combat weight with weapons, crew and extra armor can go up to 27 tons. Despite this, it maintains a high level of mobility over rough terrain.

Known about the recent large orders of machines Piranha III 8x8, produced at the Swiss factory; They came from Belgium, Brazil, Ireland, Romania, Spain and Switzerland.

Indeed, the Swiss army has long been the main buyer of Piranha, the total number of Piranha II 8x8 machines was 515 units, which were supplied from January 1995 to 2002 year.

The first vehicles to be commissioned by the Swiss army were the 310 self-propelled 6 x 6, many of which were recently converted for special tasks, and the rest in the BTR, command and control vehicles and anti-tank installations Dragon.

All of them were equipped with a Rheinmetall Landsysteme Type 606A1 single-seat turret with an external M12,7 HB 2-mm machine gun and 76-mm smoke grenade units.

These machines had attachment points for installing hinged passive armor in a frontal arc, but it was never installed.

Compared to the earlier Piranha, the Swiss Piranha II had a slightly elongated body, wider wheels to improve grip, and diesel fuel tanks were moved and installed on each side of the ramp to increase the internal volume.

Since then, the Swiss army has ordered highly specialized versions of the latest Piranha IIIC serial machines, starting with 12 command points 8x8, which entered service in 2001 – 2003 years.

All of them have a Caterpillar diesel engine with horsepower 400. with an automatic transmission ZF and rather traditional, rather than hydropneumatic suspension. In order to increase the internal volume, starting from the commander’s place, they have a roof up, they are equipped with an auxiliary power unit, which allows the additional communication equipment of the command post to operate with the main engine muffled.

Later, 36 machines entered service for the task of providing “radio access”.

The next version of the Piranha III, entered service with the Swiss army, was a radio surveillance and data transmission machine, which was also intended for electronic warfare (EW). A total of eight of these machines were delivered to the Swiss army with a set of EW manufactured by Thales.

In accordance with the weapons purchase program for the 2008 Swiss Army, MOWAG was awarded a contract worth 260 million Swiss francs (USD233 million) for almost 250 armored wheeled vehicles, which were delivered in various versions in 2010 – 2012. These machines included 12 intelligence machines OMP Piranha ALS 8x8 with equipment from Thales, 220 BTR DURO IIIP 6x6 and 12 DURO IIIP in a secure lab configuration for analyzing applications weapons mass destruction (WMD).

Piranha machines are used for real-time reconnaissance of weapons of mass destruction; they are equipped with sets of additional armor, remotely controlled Kongsberg Protector combat modules, armed with an 12,7-mm machine gun M2 HB and installations of 76-mm smoke grenades. The Protector is also installed on a number of other Swiss Army vehicles, including the MOWAG DURO IIIP currently supplied, and the Piranha 6x6 vehicles, converted to protected command posts.

PPS intelligence specialists work with on-board air, soil and water diagnostics systems to create maps of contaminated areas and transfer this information to higher echelons using on-board communications equipment. Accordingly, they have complete protection against OMP plus an auxiliary power unit (APU) to operate all systems with the main engine shut off.

Ultimately, the Swiss army adopted the 26 machines equipped with combat control systems. This consignment consists of 6 command posts and 20 armored radio access points, 8 in basic configuration and 12 with enhanced functionality.

All of these machines have a raised roof to increase the internal volume, and the options with the “radio” can be identified by their telescopic mast, which can be carried horizontally in the stowed position and lifted vertically to the working position.

The Swiss army regularly returns Piranha vehicles to MOWAG in accordance with modernization programs.

Belgium's decision to transfer its main armored units a tank (MBT) as a medium-sized, mobile force was a success for Piranha, which was selected as the basis for the new aircraft. In fact, Piranha replaces a large range of cars from MBT Leopard 1 and ending with the BTR series M113.

Belgian Piranha cars

The needs of the Belgian army in Piranha IIIC will be fulfilled in three batches of 138, 81 and 23 machines, respectively. The first tranche has already been completed, but options for tranches #2 and #3 must still be exercised.

Tranche # 1 provides for the supply of 64 BTR, 19 BMP, 18 direct fire installations, 6 ambulances, 14 command posts, 8 engineering vehicles and 9 BREMs.

The first machines and some of the specialized options were manufactured at Swiss manufacturing facilities, but then the Belgian company Jonckheere took responsibility for welding the steel case, while CMI Defense / EMI performs the final assembly and sends the finished Piranha IIIC machines to the buyer.

MOWAG remains the main contractor and retains responsibility for the manufacture of the tower and power train for Belgian vehicles. She also installs the suspension and power unit with a Caterpillar C9 / ZF automatic transmission. Belgian cars are equipped with electronic architecture from Thales.

The base BTR is equipped with a remotely controlled combat module FN Arrows, armed with an .50 machine gun of the M2 HB caliber and smoke grenade installations, while an Elbit module with an 30-mm ATK MK 44 gun and an 7,62-mm coaxial machinegun is installed on the BMP. Both modules are equipped with optics from the Belgian company OIP.

The direct fire option does not have such firepower as the Leopard I tank that it replaces, but nevertheless has a relatively protected two-man LCTS tower from CMI Defense with an 90-mm Mk 8 cannon and a paired 7,62-mm machine gun. Ammunition for the gun is supplied by MECAR.

Standard equipment for all variants includes protection against OMP, switchable all-wheel drive, central wheel inflation system and anti-lock braking system.

Exact protection levels are classified, but MOWAG claims a high level of protection as a result of the modular booking, which includes splinterproof basements, curtain armor and double bottom.

While most European buyers did not require any amphibious capabilities, the floating options were acquired by Spain and Brazil.

These variants of the Piranha IIIC, in service with the Brazilian Marine Corps, are fully amphibious. They move afloat with the help of two propellers mounted in the stern under the hull, although the remotely extended water deflector plate and bilge pumps must be activated before entering the water.

The first fixed-term Brazilian contract was signed in 2006 for six armored personnel carriers and one evacuation vehicle, which were to be deployed to Haiti as part of a UN mission. These vehicles are equipped with mounted armor and a protected .50 (12,7-mm) machine gun mounted on the roof. Some machines were equipped with a laser detector connected to an 76-mm smoke grenade installation to protect against laser-guided weapons.

The first order was followed by one more in five BTR, this order was executed in accordance with the schedule. The most recent order placed in 2008 year consists of additional 18 machines; they are delivered in 2014, in 3 configurations, BTR, sanitary and control point.

The Spanish Marines also have in service with the 18 Piranha IIIC amphibious vehicles in BTR versions, sanitary and command and control station. The BTR is equipped with a single turret armed with 12,7-mm and 7,62-mm machine guns.

The Spaniards expect an extra 21 machine, which should be delivered by 2014 year. A total of 9 options were ordered, including engineering, fire support, evacuation and reconnaissance, as well as the three options already mentioned. One batch of 4 machines will be equipped with Lance towers from Rheinmetall Landsysteme, armed with an 30-mm MK 30 cannon and a 7,62-mm machine gun.

The Irish army, meanwhile, took delivery of a total of 80 Piranha III machines with a hydropneumatic suspension for improved maneuverability and driving comfort.

They are equipped with a diesel engine MTU 6V183 TE22 with power 400 hp With an automatic transmission ZF Economat 600 (also installed on Danish cars), the vehicles are equipped with a fire extinguishing system, air conditioning systems and protection against weapons of mass destruction.


Brazil urgently ordered a small batch of amphibious Piranha Ill for its forces included in the peacekeeping mission in Haiti. The propeller is visible in the stern


Sanitary option Piranha Swiss Army - it is a converted anti-tank installations

Irish Piranha

The first batch of vehicles for Ireland consists of an 34 BTR with a single Thales FVT800 turret armed with 12,7-mm M2 HB and 7,62-mm MG machine guns and four control points also equipped with a FVT800 turret. All 40 machines, including sanitary and evacuation options, were delivered by 2002, and a batch of 25 machines soon followed.

The latest order for 15 pieces included 9 machines with a remote-controlled Kongsberg Protector combat module with an M2 HB 0,50 machine gun of caliber and six with an Oto Melara turret armed with an ATK Mk 30 XM machine gun and a twin 44 mm machine gun.

Romania urgently ordered the 31 BTR Piranha IIIC for its forces in Afghanistan, the first vehicles were delivered at the end of 2007, although MOWAG refused to provide a precise delivery schedule.

The base Romanian BTR is equipped with a stabilized Elbit combat module with an 12,7-mm machine gun M2 HB.

As the experience of the Belgians and other buyers of 90-mm LCTS90 towers, such as Kuwait, has shown, Piranha has proven to be an efficient platform; through MOWAG, a wide range of weapon systems can be ordered or they can be upgraded according to government programs.

One of the largest weapons systems installed on the Piranha III 8x8 was the CMI Defense CT-CV turret, armed with an 105-mm rifled gun and an 7,62-mm coaxial machine gun. An automatic loader was installed in it, which made it possible to reduce the crew in the turret to two, the commander and the gunner. In total, 16 ammunition ready for firing is mounted in the automatic loader installed in the aft niche (tournaments) of the turret.

The Piranha III can also be equipped with a whole range of anti-tank weapons and even anti-aircraft systems, for example 35-mm Skyranger from Rheinmetall Air Defense Oerlikon. Alternatively, MOWAG offers a fire support vehicle from closed positions with a turret armed with an 120-mm mortar and an option for electronic warfare.

In 2008, the Piranha IIIC was shown with the REBS-ABLK (Rapid Emplaced Bridge - Adaptable Bridge-Launching Kit) complex installed - [quick bridge building - an adaptive bridge laying complex] from General Dynamics Santa Barbara Sistemas - Germany, which is a further development The REB model was originally developed for the US Army Stryker Brigade Combat Group. Currently, the US is operating a modified HEMTT 8x8 (Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Truck - heavy military terrain vehicle) chassis from Oshkosh, and, apparently, it was intended to increase the level of unification of Stryker machines if necessary. With the REBS-ABLK installed, the Piranha IIIC can deploy the MLC 50 bridge (Military Load Class 50) with the 13,8 span of a meter, which allows overcoming walkways up to 13 meters wide.


Bridge building complex REBS-ABLK based on Piranha IIIC

Going along the beaten path (the development of the Piranha family at his own expense), from 2007 onwards, MOWAG is also privately developing the universal armored vehicle Piranha V 8x8.

Stryker holds strong positions in the US Army

The largest single buyer of the Piranha family of machines is the US Army with its LAV-III 8x8 machines manufactured by General Dynamics Land Systems - Canada, which are known as Stryker.

By the end of 2009, the US Army received about 4154 vehicles from the general order in 3000 vehicles, mainly in the BTR configuration. In the US Army, the base version of the BTR transports 9 infantrymen and a crew of two people (driver and commander / gunner), who manages the Kongsberg Protector combat module installed under the American program for the development of a general remotely controlled combat module.

In addition to the machine gun. 50 caliber or 40-mm automatic grenade launcher installed in the combat module Protector, the American versions usually have at least two anti-tank Javelin missiles.

Along with the BTR, the American army is armed with other Stryker options: anti-tank, 120-mm mortar transporter, reconnaissance, fire support, engineering, command and control station, evacuation of the wounded, reconnaissance of weapons of mass destruction, as well as the howitzer MGS; The latter has a low-profile turret with an 105-mm gun.

This family is protected by passive armor, which is capable of stopping 14,5 mm caliber armor-piercing bullets, as well as dynamic protection units (ERA) ordered in the middle of 2009. Meanwhile, the vehicles in Iraq and Afghanistan were equipped with lattice armor, although it will be replaced in a planned manner with dynamic protection. Armor top protects against 152-mm artillery shells of air explosions.

These cars showed themselves well during the war in Iraq and were favorably marked by their crews during the ensuing counter-insurgency. They were also well received in Afghanistan and, as a result of feedback from the troops, the American army began a series of modernization.

Due to the fact that Canadian and American users reported difficulties in moving over rough terrain, the upgrades were mainly focused on improving mobility. In this regard, the armored command revised the program, respectively, the suspension load capacity for 60000 pounds weight was increased, larger wheels and brakes and a new 450 hp engine were installed.

Machines deployed in Afghanistan in the intermediate combat brigade groups Stryker were also subjected to merciless mine and IED attacks, and now the army is studying the possibility of installing a dual V-shaped hull to improve bottom protection. The new anti-explosion kit, including increased ground clearance, new internal bottom plates and anti-explosion seats, is also installed on the machines in the field. The cars with the installed KAZ Trophy from Rafael were tested, but orders for such a configuration have not yet been received.

Factory testing

The first prototype of the Piranha V was completed in 2009 and was factory tested before its official presentation at the Eurosatory exhibition in Paris.

The lack of a real machine did not prevent the Piranha Evolution project from gradually flowing into the Piranha V, which was chosen as the general purpose vehicle of the British program FRES (Future Rapid Effect System - Advanced Perspective Rapid Impact System), although this program "ordered to live long" due to irreconcilable differences between General Dynamics UK and the British Department of Defense.





Eurosatory 2014 exhibition. Piranha III + (two photos above) and Piranha V

Compared with the current Piranha III production machines, the new Piranha V has a large total mass of 30 tons and a constructive margin that far exceeds this mass. This reserve allows you to have significant potential for the introduction of future upgrades and technological innovations.

However, there is a great family resemblance and the overall layout of the Piranha V is similar to the layout of the current production machines Piranha III. The driver sits in front of the left, the diesel power unit is located in front of the right, and the remaining internal space of the machine allows you to create a variety of specific options.

The first copy of the Piranha V is equipped with a MTU diesel engine with a power of 400-430 kW, coupled with an ZF Economat automatic transmission, but various engine and transmission combinations can be installed.

The machine will also be equipped with a new high-efficiency drive system FEDS (Fuel Efficiency Drive System), which is a diesel engine combined with an electric hybrid system. MOWAG reported that a hybrid diesel-electric drive can be installed with the appropriate development of technology and will be able to demonstrate its operational advantages.

Hydropneumatic suspension has a clearance control system and is said to provide high mobility and excellent comfort conditions for the crew while on the move. The central tire inflation system will be installed as standard.

The base body of the machine is all-welded from steel sheets with attachment points for installing mounted armor and splinter podboy. However, the user can obtain the required level of protection using a modular booking kit, which was designed to counter threats from IEDs and charges such as a shock core. The booking kit is modular, it can be changed to meet new threats or as new booking technologies are developed. On the Piranha V can be installed various protection complexes, for example Saab LEDS (Land Electronic Defense System), which has already been shown on Piranha III.

As for the serial machine Piranha III, its crew will be provided with individual seats attached to the sides and the roof in order to increase its survivability. The landing party can quickly land or leave the car through the hydraulic ramp in the stern. A surveillance system can also be installed to improve circular situational awareness for the shooter, driver, and landing force.

Standard equipment will include an overpressure protection system against over-pressure protection, a fire extinguishing system for the engine compartment, an air-conditioning system, an integrated starter-generator based on 100 kW and a modular electronic architecture.

Before making the first prototype of the Piranha V, a number of subsystems were extensively tested on other platforms.

For example, some of the elements of the Piranha V were installed on the Piranha Evolution, which took part in the FRES UV Trials of Truth tests conducted at the Bovington test site at the end of 2007.

Piranha Evolution had four-axle steering, a Kongsberg Protector combat module, General Dynamics UK electronic architecture, improved situational awareness, a centralized tire inflation system and a Bowman digital communications system.

The company MOWAG note that the Piranha V will move in the market along with the serial Piranha III. In the past, new buyers sought to buy the latest Piranha III series cars, while “regular customers” often buy an older version to unify their parks. For example, New Zealand acquired LAV III (based on Piranha III), and Australia bought LAV II (based on Piranha II).

New roles for the Swiss Piranha

The Swiss anti-tank fleet Piranha 6x6 is currently undergoing a major overhaul and is being redesigned for various options.

At first, a single TOW turret from each side was mounted on these vehicles, eight more missiles were placed in the combat pack inside the vehicle and charged manually.

However, in accordance with the contract issued to MOWAG in December 2005, for the replacement of unarmored 40 ambulances Piranha pieces were converted into an armored sanitary version and sent back to the Swiss army in 2006 – 2007.

The front of the existing hull was retained, but the fuel tanks were moved overboard between the second and third road wheels and the feed was raised to the full width of the vehicle, thus providing additional space for three reclining or six sedentary patients and four crew members.

This option has no weapons, but two groups of forward-directed 76-mm smoke grenade launchers are mounted on each side of the roof.

Standard equipment includes a full range of medical equipment to meet the most immediate needs, including bus and splint materials, respiratory respiratory equipment, blood transfusion equipment, oxygen, and dressings.

Sanitary options have recently been returned from the Swiss Army to MOWAG for the installation of a communications and battle management system (FIS Heer). This system is also installed on some MOWAG Eagle 4x4 reconnaissance vehicles and Piranha II 8x8 reconnaissance vehicles according to a program scheduled to begin in August of the 2011 year. In accordance with this program, a total of 333 systems will be installed.

In addition, after testing the prototype in the Swiss Army in 2005, the 160 of the Swiss anti-tank installations were converted to protected command posts in accordance with the contract issued to the company MOWAG in December 2006.

In addition to installing the FIS Heer system, these machines also have wider wheels than the original machine, and now the same wheels are installed on the Piranha II 8x8 BTR. As a system integrator, MOWAG was responsible for converting 160 machines into a command center option. The first modernized machine was put back into the Swiss army in 2008 year. Final deliveries were held in 2009 year.

During the modernization, the roof mounted installations of the ATOW TOW were removed, and the roof was remade to install the Kongsberg Protector remotely controlled module with an 12,7-mm M2 HB machine gun and two groups of 76-mm electric-powered smoke grenades.

In total, the fleet of approximately 100 anti-tank installations Piranha 6x6 will remain in the Swiss army.


Anti-tank unit Piranha of the Swiss Army MOWAG, reworked under the control point and equipped with a Kongsberg combat module with an 12,7-mm machine gun M2 HB

Materials used:
www.janes.com
en.wikipedia.org
www.gdels.com
www.army-technology.com
Author:
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  1. Hairy Siberian
    Hairy Siberian 6 November 2014 08: 06 New
    +4
    Piranha is made in versions 4 × 4, 6 × 6, 8 × 8 and 10 × 10 and has options: armored personnel carrier, infantry fighting vehicle, combat reconnaissance vehicle, reconnaissance vehicle RCBZ, command and staff vehicle, armored salvage and rescue vehicle . Straight Swiss knife some.
    1. Prikaz4ikov1992
      Prikaz4ikov1992 6 November 2014 08: 19 New
      +1
      Piranha is made in versions 4 × 4, 6 × 6, 8 × 8 and 10 × 10 and has options: armored personnel carrier, infantry fighting vehicle, combat reconnaissance vehicle, reconnaissance vehicle RCBZ, command and staff vehicle, armored salvage and rescue vehicle . Straight Swiss knife some.


      A boomerang will be the same plus a wheeled tank.
      1. insafufa
        insafufa 6 November 2014 10: 27 New
        +1
        Another constructor Lego laughing
        1. cosmos111
          cosmos111 7 November 2014 20: 09 New
          +1
          MOWAG Piranha III, participated in the competition, South Africa, to replace the Ratel armored personnel carrier with a more modern machine .... The Hoefyster project was launched in 1997 .....
          but lost the Finnish "Patria AMV" .....

          adapted for the army of the Republic of South Africa "Piranha-JP", first of all, reinforced mine protection, a combat module from "Denel" is installed .....

          "Piranha-JP" South Africa


          info from: http: //www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8883.45.html
          and from: http: //maxpark.com/community/547/content/2678163
          1. cosmos111
            cosmos111 7 November 2014 21: 07 New
            +1
            a couple more pictures ... "Piranha-JP", it is stated that the mine protection is STANAG Level 3 ....
            клик




            info from: http: //www.sa-transport.co.za/military/armoured_personnel_carriers_2.html

            and from: http: //paratusdefence.wordpress.com/paratus-defence/photo-galleries/gallery/
    2. The comment was deleted.
  2. Bayonet
    Bayonet 6 November 2014 10: 46 New
    +4
    A good review of an interesting car. Respect to the author!
  3. Alexey M
    Alexey M 6 November 2014 10: 50 New
    -2
    Baaaaalshoy such a barn on wheels. A dream of an artilleryman. Khokhlam let them hand over a couple for trial.
    1. DmitriyDonskoj
      DmitriyDonskoj 6 November 2014 11: 21 New
      +3
      He is required to be roomy, because the main thing in war is maneuvers. He needed a reservation so that the partisans from Berdanok did not shoot the crew, he would not enter into combat contact with tanks.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 November 2014 11: 40 New
      +6
      Are you aware that the car is below the BTR-90?
  4. Horst78
    Horst78 6 November 2014 11: 21 New
    +1
    Not a car is really good. The Swiss know their business. By the way, it was developed taking into account maneuvers on the serpentines of the Alpine mountains.
  5. padonok.71
    padonok.71 6 November 2014 12: 50 New
    +2
    Quote: Spade
    Are you aware that the car is below the BTR-90?

    And by the way, let's compare.

    Armored personnel carrier "Piranha" (LAV-25)
    Performance characteristics:

    Crew - 3 + 6 people
    Armament:
    main - 25-mm gun
    coaxial machine gun - 1x7,62-mm
    Combat weight - 12,792 t
    Engine specific power - 21,49 hp / t
    Case length - 6,393 m
    Width - 2,449 m
    Height - 2,692 m
    Ground clearance - 0,392 m
    The maximum speed on the highway - 100 km / h
    Power reserve - 668 km
    Height of the overcome wall - 0,5 m
    Overcoming pit width - 2,057 m
    Ford Depth - Floats
    Power block - 6-cylinder diesel Detroit Diesel 6V-53T models with 275 horsepower; Allison automatic transmission


    Armored personnel carrier BTR-90
    Performance characteristics

    Wheel formula8x8
    Combat weight kg 20920
    Body length, mm 8200
    Case width mm 3100
    Height, mm 3000
    Battle crew, 3 + 7 landing
    Clearance, mm510
    Armament / ammunition30-mm gun 2А42 / 500, 7,62-mm machine gun PKT / 2000, grenade launcher AG-17 / 400, ATGM "Competition" / 4
    Turbocharged multi-fuel liquid-cooled diesel engine
    Engine power hp (kW) 510 (368)
    Maximum speed, km / h100
    Speed ​​afloat, km / h 12
    Cruising range along the highway, km800
    Suspension type independent torsion bar with telescopic hydraulic shock absorbers

    It's not so bad.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 November 2014 13: 18 New
      0
      As I read back in the middle of the 90's, the developers of the BTR-90 answered the following questions in response to questions about the height of their car: "with modern weapons, this does not matter."
      There is some cunning here, for the third generation ATGM or for the second ATGM, striking a target on the fly, such as Bill, it really is. But not for traditional cannons and heavy machine guns, the dispersion has not yet been canceled.

      On the other hand, no one demands that an armored personnel carrier act in infantry combat formations. But for wheeled infantry fighting vehicles and direct fire fire support vehicles like the M1128 Stryker MGS, this is critical.
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 6 November 2014 19: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: Spade
        On the other hand, no one demands that an armored personnel carrier act in infantry combat formations. But for wheeled infantry fighting vehicles and direct fire fire support vehicles like the M1128 Stryker MGS, this is critical

        Now, this is one modular BM, as a rule with the wheel formula 8x8, for various weapons and additional .. reservation ((consignment notes)))
        during the 70-80 years there were attempts to create specialized BMs, tank destroyers, armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles and all on various wheeled chassis. bronroceramics ...
        only the French succeeded with the wheeled tank "AMX-10RC" and "Vextra-105", South Africa "Rooikat" and Italians with "Centauro" .....

        although it was much more interesting: BMP BMX AMX-10RP 6x6 - the mechvod is located in front, to the left of the engine compartment, the commander and gunner-operator are in the tower, in which the 20-mm gun and the anti-tank missile launcher "Milan" are installed. ...
        The airborne squad is designed for eight military personnel in combat gear ...
        It was planned to create medical and sanitary evacuation vehicles, combat control vehicles and other modifications based on this BMP ...
        for the first time there was an attempt to create a modular unified combat wheeled platform !!!
        BMX AMX-10RP


        1. cosmos111
          cosmos111 6 November 2014 19: 26 New
          +1
          another photo of the stern BMX AMX-10RP ...
          Interesting could be obtained from the French BM, ahead of the time of years on the 25 minimum, in France itself, including ...
          the military did not know in the 70's what to do with such a BM ... the troops already operated the tracked infantry fighting vehicle AMX-10P
          BMX AMX-10RP
          клик

        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 November 2014 19: 31 New
          0
          The question is different, in geometric dimensions. For the most part, getting easier.
          1. cosmos111
            cosmos111 6 November 2014 19: 55 New
            0
            Quote: Spade
            The question is different, in geometric dimensions. For the most part it’s easier to get

            size with modern means of destruction, has ceased to be of paramount importance ...
            situational awareness devices tied into a single network and a DBM that can aim at a target in automatic mode come to the fore ... the operator only presses the trigger ...
            determined where the source of the threat came from - shot ... didn’t have time - beaten down !!

            BBM "Pandur II"
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 6 November 2014 20: 00 New
              +1
              Quote: cosmos111
              size with modern means of destruction, has ceased to be of paramount importance ...

              I would not say ... For grenade launchers, second-generation ATGMs, cannons and heavy machine guns, as well as anti-material rifles, the larger the geometric dimensions, the easier it is to hit.
              1. cosmos111
                cosmos111 6 November 2014 20: 39 New
                0
                Quote: Spade
                For grenade launchers, second-generation ATGMs, cannons and heavy machine guns, as well as anti-material rifles, the larger the geometric dimensions, the easier it is to hit.

                then, we can say that the Americans suffered the greatest losses in the modern asymmetric war in Iraq and Afghanistan from IEDs !!!
                Now on the Ruin from 122 mm, 152, howitzers and MLRS ... of course and the anti-tank systems of the times of the Second World War, contributed ...
                each conflict has its own specifics ... and the use of BM is different everywhere ...
                in Chechnya, everything was different ((you yourself know)))

                MOWAG with 20-mm gun ((militia's dream)))
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 6 November 2014 20: 46 New
                  0
                  Quote: cosmos111
                  then, we can say that the Americans suffered the greatest losses in the modern asymmetric war in Iraq and Afghanistan from IEDs !!!

                  And if the war is "symmetrical"?
                  1. cosmos111
                    cosmos111 6 November 2014 21: 05 New
                    0
                    Quote: Spade
                    And if the war is "symmetrical"?

                    tady oh crying everything will be decided by aviation and shock turntables ...

                    and the awareness of the troops ... who has more information ... he will win ...

                    as for BM, they need to be built with minimal radar and televisibility visibility ...
                    pinwheel in the thermal imager --- hard to miss ...
                    клик
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 6 November 2014 21: 37 New
                      0
                      Quote: cosmos111
                      tady oh everything will be decided by aviation and shock turntables ...

                      Air defense is canceled?
                      1. cosmos111
                        cosmos111 6 November 2014 22: 24 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Spade
                        Air defense is canceled?

                        then space defense (ABM)))

                        and infa .... and again, infa !!!
                        from a simple soldier to fellow who is better informed
                        Quote: cosmos111
                        he will win ...
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 6 November 2014 23: 27 New
                        0
                        Awareness does not negate probability theory. As well as the dispersion of shells and bullets during firing. The larger the car, the greater the likelihood that they will get into it.
            2. lichide
              lichide 7 November 2014 00: 38 New
              0
              Thank you for the "anti-material rifles"! Subtle, very subtle humor! Regarding the dimension, I say- The closer the target, the more difficult it is to get into it. Affected jitters from lack of time. But at ranges of about 1000 meters from a coaxial machine gun it is better to cover the target with a beam of a long line, and from an automatic gun single, with simultaneous adjustment of fire. Optical sights are good in that they allow you to see the flight of a bullet and a projectile, even if they are not tracer.
      2. cosmos111
        cosmos111 6 November 2014 20: 18 New
        +1
        ph rare photo ...
        here is an armored personnel carrier "VAB" in the variant ("VCI-90") with an 90 mm tower, from "AMX-10RC", for the French gendarmerie ....
        info s:http://aw.my.com/forum/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=1386&pageNo=2
  • air wolf
    air wolf 6 November 2014 13: 14 New
    -5
    everything is determined by price-characteristics, BTR-82 drives!
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 November 2014 13: 20 New
      +4
      What does he "steer" in? Maximum revenue with minimal modernization?
    2. Prikaz4ikov1992
      Prikaz4ikov1992 6 November 2014 14: 38 New
      +2

      air wolf (1) SU  Today, 13: 14


      everything is determined by price-characteristics, BTR-82 drives!


      No brains count the cripple.
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 11 November 2014 21: 01 New
        0
        LAV-25 (Piranha III))))
        1. An incredibly non-ergonomic landing squad ....
        left side

        starboard


        2. with a primitive and practically unprotected suspension (cardan drives of wheel gear drives, transfer cases, intermediate cardan shafts)))

        3.mechvoda place, close with poor visibility ......
    3. Sahalinets
      Sahalinets 6 November 2014 14: 54 New
      +5
      It’s immediately obvious that you never climbed into our armored personnel carriers. This is a kennel on wheels. It’s hard to get there, it’s extremely crowded and inconvenient, and with each movement you touch something and stumble upon something, and to leave the car if something happens is just luck! Well, the board makes its way with anything ... It is not surprising that our infantry prefers to ride from above.
      Compare with Piranha, where decent security and internal space are normal and the input / output is not a problem.
      1. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 6 November 2014 20: 31 New
        -2
        Quote: Sahalinets
        It’s immediately obvious that you never climbed into our armored personnel carriers


        Based on your comment, you have not been there either.
        1. Sahalinets
          Sahalinets 7 November 2014 13: 06 New
          +1
          Alas, I had to spend a lot of time there. Explicitly unlike you.
  • kplayer
    kplayer 6 November 2014 14: 50 New
    +1
    Sorry for the BTR-90 "Berezhok" (8x8, 21,5 t.).
  • wizarden
    wizarden 6 November 2014 15: 11 New
    +1
    So this is what the Boomerang was painted with.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 November 2014 15: 32 New
      +4
      I agree. Almost all modern wheeled armored personnel carriers were copied from the Piranha. The car was corny just successful.
    2. kplayer
      kplayer 6 November 2014 16: 29 New
      +2
      Rather, an associative, four wheels in a side projection, and a classic BMP lineup (MTO - bow, BO - medium, DO in the stern), someone should have been the first. World popularity came after the War in the Gulf of 1991 (as well as to HMMWV, 4x4), because LAV (8x8) with 1983 It was in service with the MP (light armored reconnaissance battles, in the domestic press (ZVO) - light motorized infantry).
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 6 November 2014 20: 28 New
        +2
        BBM- "Piranha III" of the company "MOWAG" 10X10, equipped with the latest tower CV-90 40В company "Bofors", armed with an 40-mm gun .....

      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. kplayer
        kplayer 7 November 2014 17: 21 New
        +2
        By the way, about popularity: the Belgians even replaced the latest 40 (from 132) MBT Leopard-1A5 with a Piranha IIIC BBM with an 90-mm gun.



    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 6 November 2014 20: 37 New
      +1
      Quote: wizarden
      So this is what the Boomerang was painted with.


      It’s too early to talk about the BTR of the Boomerang project, some mock-ups and outline drawings.
      What will be on the way out is another big question.
      At all exhibitions of this and previous years, even the running layout was not shown or the exhibition model, as was the case with the Rostock or the wheeled infantry fighting vehicle Atom from UVZ.
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 6 November 2014 21: 47 New
        0
        yes, if our "Boomerang" on TTX Piranha IV8x8, "Piranha VE ... it will already be a huge breakthrough ...
        if the price is acceptable ((which is unlikely))) then you can go out and stake out your niche in the segment of wheeled BBM ...

        in the meantime, envy TTX "Piranha IV"
        The Piranha IV with the 8x8 wheel arrangement offers the 10-payload and the used internal volume of the 12 m3. It will be equipped with 395 / 85 R20. With a maximum mass of 24 t, its calculated ground pressure values ​​are the same as those of the lighter Piranha III machine (180 kPa off-road). If it were used with only 22t gross mass, its mobility would be even better than the mobility of the Piranha III.

        info s:http://www.army-guide.com/rus/product2131.html
        и с : http: //www.army-guide.com/rus/product1382.html
    5. kplayer
      kplayer 8 November 2014 02: 30 New
      +2
      Rather, the Swiss copied the Czechoslovak-Polish OT-64 SKOT, 8x8, 1963 (on 3 a year earlier BMP-1), it only remained to swap the department of management and MTO.



      Piranha acquired the familiar look when the USMC needed a car with a double armored turret of the American production, with an automatic gun like that of Bradley.
      Piranha II APC 8x8 (more than 500 units) of the Swiss Army:

      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 9 November 2014 20: 11 New
        0
        Quote: kplayer
        th OT-64 SKOT, 8x8, 1963 (3 years earlier than BMP-1)

        for 64 year, he certainly was a modern armored personnel carrier ....

        Wed, engine location and aft entry-exit, of course more ergonomic, a small hatch, on board ...

        but, here's the suspension, it was primitive ....


        info s:http://www.primeportal.net/apc/jean_thomas_rembert/ot-64_skot/
    6. The comment was deleted.
  • Sahalinets
    Sahalinets 6 November 2014 15: 50 New
    +5
    Quote: kplayer
    Sorry for the BTR-90 "Berezhok" (8x8, 21,5 t.).

    Not sorry. The BTR-90 was the development of a vicious concept with an engine behind, but what about the landing ... well, somehow it will get out ...
  • raid14
    raid14 6 November 2014 16: 08 New
    +1
    For motorized infantry, an armored personnel carrier with an amphibious assault exit is required, such as the Stryker and Boomerang. To solve certain tasks, a modular hinged reservation is desirable, taking into account the use in infantry orders, the crew must be protected from widespread portable shaped-charge ammunition. To solve this problem, it is necessary to develop domestic electrodynamic protection systems for LBT.
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 6 November 2014 20: 52 New
      0
      Quote: raid14
      For motorized infantry, an armored personnel carrier is needed with an airborne assault


      Ideally, there should be three outputs. Two side and one aft.
      And one stern can become a trap for landing when the drive mechanism of the folding ramp or the emergency door mounted in it is damaged.
      1. padonok.71
        padonok.71 7 November 2014 00: 30 New
        +1
        Upper hatches do not forget. A very necessary thing. And the lower emergency (in reserve) smile .
  • kplayer
    kplayer 6 November 2014 16: 23 New
    +2
    "Vicious concept." BMP "Ratel" (6x6, 19т.) MTO in the stern, side doors (although there is a narrow aisle in the stern, rather to facilitate maintenance) - an "extremely unsuccessful car" (+ Jordan, Morocco and 6 of other countries, in their time has not spread because of international sanctions against apartheid).
    BTR-90 was able to deploy in place, on a tank, landing-dismounting order is preferable to BMP-3 (BMD).
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 November 2014 16: 59 New
      +1
      Quote: kplayer
      (although there is a narrow passage in the stern, rather to facilitate maintenance.

      Yeah ... It's the size of an exit from an BTR-80 / 90. Moreover, an additional firing point is located in this "passage to facilitate maintenance."
      1. kplayer
        kplayer 6 November 2014 17: 25 New
        +1
        Eco you hasty - compared with the side, that's all. I did not go to hatches and turret mounts (she asked there, given the almost nasal arrangement of the BO), but in the know. Aft double doors are ideal, but a “vicious concept” is too much.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 November 2014 17: 47 New
          +1
          We decided not to complicate. Google BN / MAN SIBMAS. There is nothing to do with apartheid. By the way, the Belgian-German car was floating.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 6 November 2014 18: 29 New
              0
              Quote: kplayer
              What is "nothing to do with"?

              The fact that SIBMAS had nothing to do with South Africa. At all. And you could buy it without any restrictions. But it didn’t ...
          2. kplayer
            kplayer 6 November 2014 18: 19 New
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            Google BN / MAN SIBMAS. There is nothing to do with apartheid.

            So far from memory.
            What is "nothing to do with"? The “Ratel”, as usual, was acquired already having a reputation as a combat vehicle (19t, export SIBMAS - 16t). War is the best advertisement for weapons.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. cosmos111
      cosmos111 6 November 2014 18: 36 New
      0
      Quote: kplayer
      "Vicious concept." BMP "Ratel" (6x6, 19t.) MTO in the stern, side doors (although there is a narrow passage in the stern, rather to facilitate maintenance) - "an extremely unsuccessful car" (


      who told you that the car is not "successful" ??? read the memories of the military ... specialists from the USSR ...

      BM modular type .... used as an armored personnel carrier / infantry fighting vehicle and tank destroyer ...
      it was created for the theater of war, southern Africa, sandy-stony soil ...
      South Africa was between ... sanctions and something fundamentally new was difficult to create ...
      РґР °, Р · Р ° РѕСЃРЅРѕРІСѓ РєРѕРЅСЃС‚СЂСѓРєС † РёРё РІР · СЏС ‚Р'Рњ
      Quote: Spade
      R'Rќ / RњRђRќ SIBMAS.
      РЅРѕ доведен РєРѕРјРїР ° нией, РїРѕРґ РўРўРҐ Р ° СЂРјРёРё ЮАР...


      Quote: kplayer
      R'RўR -90 СЃРїРѕСЃРѕР ± ен Р ± С ‹Р» СЂР ° Р · вернуться РЅР ° месте, РІРѕ тР° РЅРєРѕРІРѕРјСЂР РРЂРЂСЂ, јї

      R'PўR -90, СЗ С‚Рѕ РІ серии ??? Р ° Р'РўР "Р¤СѓС €" РЅР ° мостР° С ... MAN (РєР ° Рє Рё Рё Р Р ° тель "), РІС‹ РїСѓСЃРєР ° ется Рё СЃРµР№С З Р ° СЃ ...

      РЅРѕ, СЏ, РЅРµ РѕР ± этом ....
      модерниР· Р ° С † РёСЏ Р'РўР "" Ratel "" предложеннР° СЏ РІ 1986, Sandock Austral, СЃРѕР · РґР ° Р» Р ° РїСЂРѕС‚РСС "", -100 ".....
      R'RўR - "AC-100", РјРѕСЂРµС ... РѕРґРЅС ‹Р№, РґРІРёРіР ° тел СЊ перенесС'РЅ РІ СЃСЂ ... С З Р ° сть РєРѕСЃРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂРЂСЂРЂ 2-SЋ RѕSЃSЏRјRo, RѕR ± SЂR ° F · ° F RѕRІR "RѕSЃSЊ RїRѕR" † RЅRѕS RμRЅRЅRѕRμ RґRμSЃR ° RЅS,RЅRѕRμ RѕS,RґRμR "RμRЅRoRμ RЅR ° 3-S,SЊ RїRѕR" RЅRѕSЃS,SЊSЋ SЌRєRoRїRoSЂRѕRІR ° RЅRЅS <C ... SЃRѕR »РґР ° С‚ ..
      RІР »Р ° РЅРёСЂРѕРІР ° Р» РѕСЃСЊ РІС ‹РїСѓСЃРєР ° ть, СЃ РєРѕР» есной С „РѕСЂРјСѓР» РѕР№: 4С ... 4,6С ... 6,8С ... 8С ... XNUMXС ... XNUMXС ... XNUMXС ...

      Р'РўР - "AC-100" СЃ 90 РјРј РїСѓС € РєРѕР№ Рё Р ± Р ° С € ней РѕС ‚" Ratel "

      Р'РўР - "AC-100" СЃ 20 РјРј РїСѓС € РєРѕР№ РѕС ‚" Ratel "СЃС ... емР°
      6h6

      4h4

      1. kplayer
        kplayer 6 November 2014 19: 10 New
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        R 'том, С З С‚Рѕ SIBMAS РЅРёРєР ° РєРѕРіРѕ РѕС‚РЅРѕС € ения Рє ЮАРне имеР”.

        SIBMAS - РґР °, Р'Р Рђ "РР» Р ° РЅРґ "(РџР ° РЅР ° СЂ AML-90) тоже" РЅРµ имеР"", РєР ° Рє Рё винтовки R.XNALX ), R.1 (HK G.3) Ryo R.3 (IMI "P" P ° R "Röhr" ") RЅR ° RїSЂRoRјRμSЂ - RЅRoS ‡ RμRіRѕ SѓRґRoRІRoS,RμR" SЊRЅRѕRіRѕ, RЅRѕ RїSЂRѕRoR · RІRѕRґRoR "RoSЃSЊ.
        Quote: cosmos111
        кто Р'Р ° Рј СЃРєР ° Р · Р ° Р ”, С З С‚Рѕ РјР ° С € РёРЅР ° РЅРµ" СѓРґР ° С З РЅР ° СЏ "???

        Quote: kplayer
        - "РєСЂР ° Р№РЅРµ неудР° С ‡ РЅР ° СЏ РјР ° С € РёРЅР °"

        РљРѕРІС ‹С ‡ РєРё РЅРµ Р · Р ° метны?
        Quote: cosmos111
        R'PўR -90, C ‡ то РІ серии ???

        Р'РѕС ‚вотому то Р» РёС ‡ РЅРѕ РјРЅРµ ...
        Quote: kplayer
        Sorry for the BTR-90 "Berezhok" (8x8, 21,5 t.).
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 November 2014 19: 45 New
          +1
          РЇ РЅРµ совсем РїРѕРЅРёРјР ° СЋ, СЗ С‚Рѕ Р'С ‹РїС‹ тР° етесь РґРѕРєР ° Р · Р ° ть. РџРѕ С „Р ° кту РґР ° РЅРЅР ° СЏ СЃС ... емР° СЂР ° спрострР° нения РЅРµ РЅР ° С € Р» Р °. RћSЃS,R ° F "RoSЃSЊ S,RѕR" SЊRєRѕ "R'RњRџ-1-RѕR ± SЂR ° F · RЅS <Rμ" (RґRІRoRіR ° S,RμR "SЊ RІRїRμSЂRμRґRo / SЃRїSЂR ° RІR ° / SЃR" RμRІR ° RѕS, деления СѓРїСЂР ° РІР» ения Рё "РњРў-Р› Р'-РѕР ± СЂР ° Р · РЅС ‹Рµ" (РґРІРёРіР ° тель между РѕРјРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРґРЅРґРЅРґРґРґРґРЅРЅРЅРЅРЅРґРѕРѕРѕРѕРѕРЅРЅРЅРЅРѕРѕРЅРѕРЅРѕРЅРЅРѕРѕРѕРѕРЅРѕРѕРР ± РѕРµРІС ‹Рј / десР° нтны Рј отделением)

          Р'РўР -90 РёРјРµРµС ‚РјР ° Р» оперспективную СЃС ... ему Р ± еР· РІС ‹С ... РѕРґР ° РЅР ° РєРѕСЂРјРµ.
          1. cosmos111
            cosmos111 6 November 2014 20: 54 New
            0
            Quote: Spade
            "R'RњРџ-1-РѕР ± СЂР ° Р · РЅС‹ Рµ "(РґРІРёРіР ° тел СЊ впереди / СЃРІСЂР ° РІР ° / СЃР »РµРІР ° отднЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏЏРЫР Р ›Р'-РѕР ± СЂР ° Р · РЅС‹ Рµ "(РґРІРёРіР ° тел СЊ между отделением СѓРїСЂР ° РІР» РР РРРґР РР РР РР РР РР РР ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р РР РР ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ±Р ° отделением)

            СЃСЂ ... СЂР ° СЃРїРѕР »РѕР¶РµРЅРёРµ РґРІРёРіР ° тел СЏ перспективней именноодля Р'РЃР …РЂРЂР ±Р ±Р ±РЂР ±Р ±Р Р »СѓС ‡ С € Рµ, СЗ РµРј РїСЂРё РњРўРћ РІ РЅРѕСЃСѓ !!!
            RѕSЃRѕR ± RμRЅRЅRѕ SЌS,Rѕ RІR ° R¶RЅRѕ RіRѕSЂRЅRѕR№ RјRμSЃS,RЅRѕSЃS,Ro PI, P ° SЃ RєR ° RјRμSЂR RјRo ° F ± RѕRєRѕRІRѕRіRѕ Ryo RєRѕRјRѕRІRѕRіRѕ RѕR ± P · RѕSЂR °, ± P · RѕR RѕSЂ RІRѕRѕR C ± ‰ Rμ R ° 360B ° ...

            GPV Colonel 8x8

        2. cosmos111
          cosmos111 7 November 2014 01: 08 New
          0
          Quote: kplayer
          РР »Р ° РЅРґ" (РџР ° РЅР ° СЂ AML-90) тоже "РЅРµ имел "

          РІРѕС ‡ ему, РЅРµ имеР»-имел ...

          Eland xnumx


          РёРЅС „Р ° СЃ: http: //www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php? 64954-South-African-Nationa
          l-Defense-Force / page31
          1. kplayer
            kplayer 7 November 2014 14: 55 New
            +1
            Андрей, РєР ° РІС ‹С ‡ РєРё РІРѕ-прежнему РІ СѓРїРѕСЂ РЅРµ РІРёРґРёРј.
            ЮАРовский №РР »Р ° РЅРґ" Mk.7 ("РџР ° РЅР ° СЂ" AML-90, ФрР° РЅС † РёСЏ)
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eland_Mk7
            With „ото тР° Рј же.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    3. lichide
      lichide 6 November 2014 23: 37 New
      +1
      R'RўR - СЃРїРѕСЃРѕР ± ен СЂР ° Р · вернуться РїРѕ тР° РЅРєРѕРІРѕРјСѓ? Р ”Р °, может. (РЅР ° С З РёСЃС‚Рѕ РІС ‹РјРµС‚енной Р ± етонировР° РЅРЅРѕР№ РїР» РѕС ‰ Р ° РґРєРµ). РќР ° РїР ° С € РЅРµ СЌС‚РѕС ‚РїРёСЂСѓСЌС‚ РЅРµ РїРѕР »СѓС ‡ ится.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 6 November 2014 23: 55 New
        +1
        Quote: Lahideus
        Р ”Р °, может. (РЅР ° С З РёСЃС‚Рѕ РІС ‹РјРµС‚енной Р ± етонировР° РЅРЅРѕР№ РїР» РѕС ‰ Р ° РґРєРµ).

        РўР ° Рє СЃР »РёС € РєРѕРј РІС‹ СЃРѕРєРёРј СЃС † епление Р ± удет, если подметР° ть. НужнР° мелкР° СЏ РїС‹ Р »СЊ РґР» СЏ СЃРјР ° Р · РѕС ‡ РєРё.
        РљРѕСЂРѕС З З Рµ это тР° Рє, РёРіСЂСѓС € РєРё.

        P 'реР° Р »Рµ Сѓ РЅР ° СЃ СЃР ° РјС‹ Р№ РјР ° Р »С‹ Р№ СЂР ° РґРёСѓСЃ поворотР°, 3.8 Сѓ "РљСЂС‹ РјСЃРєР ° ". РќРѕ тР° Рј РёР · -Р · Р ° СЌР »РµРєС‚СЂРѕРґРІРёРіР ° тел ей есть РІРѕР · можностѲвРСРРРСРРРРения скоростями РєР ° ждого РєРѕР »РµСЃР °.
        1. lichide
          lichide 7 November 2014 11: 45 New
          0
          R'RµS'S'Rј RєР ° СЂР ° РЅРґР ° С € Рё СЃС ‡ итР° ем. РљСЂС ‹РјСЃРє, вес Р ± еР· вооружения 22 тонны, СЃ вооружением 25 тонн. РљРѕР »С'СЃ 8. Р — РЅР ° С ‡ РёС ‚РЅР ° РєР ° ждоое РєРѕР» есо РЅР ° РіСЂСѓР · РєР ° 3 СЃ Р »РёС € РЅРёРј тонны! R ”Р ° РІР ° йте РИРѕРїСЂРѕР ± уем СЂР ° Р · вернуть Р ± етонны Р№ Р ± РЧто? РќРµ РїРѕР »СѓС ‡ Р ° ется? РЈ меня тоже тяму РЅРµ С ... РІР ° тР° РµС ‚! РўР ° РЅРєРё Рё те Р · Р ° СЂС ‹РІР ° ются РІ РіСЂСѓРЅС‚ Рё "СЂР ° Р · СѓРІР ° ются, Р ° СѓР¶ РљРѕР» С'СЃРЅРёРєСѓ .... Ryo P · P ° C ‡ PµPј?
    4. kplayer
      kplayer 7 November 2014 00: 43 New
      +1
      Р'ероятно, СЂР ° Р · РІРѕСЂРѕС ‚РІРѕ тР° РЅРєРѕРІРѕРјСѓ РґР» СЏ РѕСЃРѕР ± С ‹С ... С Р¶РґС ‹Р№ СЂР ° Р ·, РЅР ° вример, РІ стесненны С ... РіРѕСЂРѕРґСЃРєРёС ... СѓСЃР »

      КстР° ти, РєР »РёСЂРµРЅСЃ Р'РўР -90 РІС‹ С € Рµ - 0,51Рј, вротив 0,39Рј - LAV-25.
      1. kplayer
        kplayer 7 November 2014 15: 26 New
        +1
        P'PўR -90 - СЂР ° Р · РІРѕСЂРѕС ‚РЅР ° месте (?)

        РќР ° 4: 45 просмотрР°


        РќР ° 36: 10 просмотрР°


        РќР ° Р »СЊРґСѓ + снежок.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    5. The comment was deleted.
  • Aasdem
    Aasdem 6 November 2014 16: 49 New
    +1
    RёРЅС‚ересен РїРѕРґС ... РѕРґ РґР »СЏ РєРѕРјРїР» ектР° С † РёРё РїРѕ потреР± ности.
    РЅРµ уверен С З С‚Рѕ это идеР° Р »СЊРЅР ° СЏ РјР ° С € РёРЅР °, РЅРѕ РЅР ° РсРґРЅРѕР№ Р ± Р ° Р · Рµ Рё деЏяР° Р ° ддеяР° Р ° РґРґРґСЏР ° Р ° РґРґРґСЏР ° Р ° R ‚СЊ РѕС‚ 4 * 4 РґРѕ 8 * 8.
    если Р ± С‹ веР· РґРµ нужен Р ± С ‹Р» 8 * 8 "РўРёРіСЂС‹ "" Медведи "" Р'РѕР »РєРё" Рё "Р СРЅ РЃ РЃ РЃ РЃ РЃ РЃ РЃ РЃ РЃ РЃ РЃ РЃ РЃ РЅРЃ Ryo P ± C ‹.
  • Strashila
    Strashila 6 November 2014 19: 02 New
    +1
    "RS,Ro RјR ° C RoRЅS € <C ... € RѕSЂRѕS of the PS RїRѕRєR ° R · R ° R» Ryo SЃRμR ± SЏ RІRѕ RІSЂRμRјSЏ RІRѕR№RЅS <PI P SЂR RєRμ Ryo ° F ± C <R »Ryo RїRѕR" RѕR¶ RoS,RμR "SЊRЅRѕ RѕS,RјRμS ‡ RμRЅS <SЃRІRѕRoRјRo SЌRєRoRїR R¶R ° ° RјRo RІRѕ RІSЂRμRјSЏ RїRѕSЃR" RμRґRѕRІR ° RІS € Roes ... P · P ° S,RμRј RїSЂRѕS,RoRІRѕRїRѕRІSЃS,R ° RЅS ‡ RμSЃRєRoS ... RґRμR№SЃS, РІРёР№. "... С‚.Рµ. RІРѕРєР ° РѕРЅРё РЅРµ воевР° Р »Рё, Р ° просто присутствовР° Р» Рё ... РІСЃРµ Р ± С ‹Р» Рѕ РіСѓРґ.
    RќRѕ RЅR ° C ° F ‡ P "RoSЃSЊ SЂRμR ° F" SЊRЅS <P ± Rμ RѕRμRІS <Rμ RґRμR№SЃS,RІRoSЏ ... Pd · SЂRμR RєRѕ RїRѕS,SЂRμR RѕRІR ° ± P "P SЃSЊ RјRѕRґRμSЂRЅRoR · ° F ° C † RyoSЏ.
    RS,Rѕ RєR ° Rє SЃ RІRoRЅS,RѕRІRєRѕR№ G36, RїRѕRєR ° SЃRЅRoRјR ° F "P PI P SЃSЊ ° ± RѕRμRІRoRєR ° C ... ... RєRѕSЃRoR" P ° RІSЂR RіRѕRІ °, P ° PI SЂRμR ° F "P SЊRЅRѕR№ ¶RoR · RЅRo RїRѕSЃR "Rμ RїSЂRoRјRμRЅRμRЅRoSЏ PI P ± RѕRμRІS <C ... SѓSЃR" RѕRІRoSЏS RїSЂRoS ... € P "Ryo Rє RІS <RІRѕRґSѓ S,Rѕ RμS C ‡ 'RЅR RґRѕ ° F · ° F RјRμRЅRoS,SЊ RЅR ° G38, RoSЃRїSЂR ° РІР »СЏСЋС ‰ РёРµ РєРѕСЃСЏРєРё преды РґСѓС ‰ ей модели.
    Everything is beautiful in a glossy magazine and cinematography, but not always in life.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 November 2014 19: 16 New
      +2
      This is somewhat different. "Real combat" is the mine war the Americans stumbled upon. Kandahar, 5th Brigade "Striker", 2009 year. 37 soldiers killed and 238 wounded. Landmines.

      Landmines are rare in "real hostilities," but rather a sign of counter-guerrilla operations.
    2. kplayer
      kplayer 8 November 2014 18: 25 New
      +1
      Close to the real database (war) was in 2003, the next 10 years - partisanism and mine war, it was time to distinguish.
      G38 !? - Is it a type from computer games, or from the authors of a fake about the insolvency of a rifle?
      Of. HK website, find it! :
      http://www.heckler-koch.com/en/products/military/assault-rifles.html
    3. The comment was deleted.
  • Thompson
    Thompson 6 November 2014 19: 30 New
    0
    Quote: insafufa
    Another constructor Lego laughing

    An analogue of our armored personnel carriers, only much more bulky. Our directly dolls in comparison with them in design!
    Well, according to TTX, they are all coffins for the guys in battle, alas.
    1. cosmos111
      cosmos111 6 November 2014 21: 13 New
      +1
      the most honest ten best BBM, compiled by amers ... (((although I disagree with some positions))
      info s:http://www.army-technology.com/features/featurethe-worlds-best-armoured-personne

      l-carriers-4142101 /

      1.Payria AMV 8X8

      2.Boxcer APC 8x8

      3.Piranha V 8x8

      4.Pandur II 8x8

      5.ARMA 8x8
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 6 November 2014 21: 26 New
        0
        continue the most honest yes , BBM hit parade from the site:http://www.army-technology.com/features/featurethe-worlds-best-armoured-personne

        l-carriers-4142101 /

        6.GPV (Pars, AV8 APC 8x8)

        7.Terrex 8x8

        8. BTR-4Е 8х8

        9. BTR-82A 8X8

        10.Stryker 8x8


        1. cosmos111
          cosmos111 6 November 2014 22: 33 New
          0
          in addition, the heaviest BBM wheeled tank ... TH 400
          "Bismark" South Africa was developed in the middle of the 80's, the mass is from 40 to 60 tons ...

          with a tower from MBT Olifant MK.1B ... but etc.
          why post it ... surprised the place of the inter-entrance ... more modern than our "new" BTR-82 ...


          ifa with:http://sunderland73.livejournal.com/15050.html
          c:http://myauto.jofo.ru/277984.html
          C:http://shushpanzer-ru.livejournal.com/402117.html
          c:http://www.warwheels.net/
        2. kplayer
          kplayer 7 November 2014 17: 38 New
          +2
          One of the forgotten Army Technology ...

          VBCIs
        3. The comment was deleted.
  • wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 6 November 2014 21: 20 New
    0
    By the way, about the layout of the MTO. More and more are recalled in connection with the "difficult thoughts" of engineers about where and how to place an engine and gearbox on an armored personnel carrier, the layout of one bus, and specifically, Ikarus-260.
    He has a diesel engine located under the floor in the middle of the car. It is made horizontally inclined and mounted longitudinally with the gearbox relative to the supporting truss of the bus body. A diesel on the Mercedes-Benz O-345 bus is also horizontally mounted, but already in the left rear part of the body.

    Diesel "Raba-MAN" -D2156НМ6U:



    Accommodation on the bus "Ikarus-260"

    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 November 2014 21: 38 New
      0
      And how to change it? In the field.
      1. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 6 November 2014 22: 04 New
        0
        Quote: Spade
        And how to change it? In the field.


        Hands using tools.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 November 2014 23: 28 New
          0
          But is it not too heavy to pull out with his hands? Why bullshit if it’s easier to trivially install the engine in the front of the case. At the same time and add. protection will be.

          On the German Boxer, the engine-box unit is replaced in 40 minutes in the field, without bothering with nonsense like repairing it in place.

          1. wanderer_032
            wanderer_032 7 November 2014 00: 54 New
            0
            And rightly so. In the same way, any power unit can be installed so that it can be quickly replaced in the field. Moreover, the dimensions of the power unit do not affect installation / disassembly. How to arrange technological hatches is not a very painful question either, if a person really owns the profession of a design engineer.
          2. cosmos111
            cosmos111 9 November 2014 12: 06 New
            0
            Quote: Spade
            On the German Boxer, the engine-box unit is replaced in 40 minutes in the field, without bothering with nonsense like repairing it in place.

            on BBM "Stryker" also in 45 minutes ... MTO in a single unit .....
            клик


            info s:http://www.primeportal.net/apc/lethcoe/stryker3_photos_1.htm
    2. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 6 November 2014 21: 47 New
      0
      Placement of the engine on the Mercedes-Benz O-345 bus:



      Diesel MERCEDES-BENZ OM 447 hLA:



      1. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 6 November 2014 21: 57 New
        0
        Our diesel engines of the UTD series that are on all BMP, BMD and BTR-90 are also low, because. have a large camber of cylinders and we can say that they are practically diesels with an opposed arrangement of cylinders. In general, the main thing is that all these engines have low height.


        UTD-32


        UTD-29


        UTD-20

        In this regard, the question arises, what are the design engineers stupid when running and spawning caviar, how on an armored personnel carrier to make it so that with the front or mid-engine layout there was a passage from the airborne squad to the control or combat compartment?
        And here is the answer. And moreover, it has existed for a long time.
  • cosmos111
    cosmos111 6 November 2014 23: 11 New
    0
    extremely interesting infa to create a wheeled tank "Rooikat" ...
    there was an 3 prototype:
    Concept 1 - Ratel 8x8(upgraded and enlarged BBM Ratel 6x6 chassis)
    Concept 2 - Eland 8x8 Eland 4X4
    Concept 3 - Saracen 8x8 Saracen 6X6
    info s:http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?64954-South-African-National
    -Defence-Force / page19
    1. cosmos111
      cosmos111 6 November 2014 23: 13 New
      0
      Concept 1 - Ratel 8x8 (upgraded and enlarged BBM chassis Ratel 6x6) -prototype BM- "Rooikat"
      клик


      info s;http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?64954-South-African-National


      -Defence-Force / page19
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 6 November 2014 23: 18 New
        0
        Concept 2 - Eland 8x8 (Eland 4x4) - prototype BM- "Rooikat" 8x8
        клик

        РёРЅС „Р ° СЃ: http: //www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php? 64954-South-African-Nationa
        l-Defense-Force / page19
        1. cosmos111
          cosmos111 6 November 2014 23: 24 New
          0
          Concept 3 - Saracen 8x8 (Saracen 6x6) -prototype BM- "Rooikat" 8x8
          клик


          РёРЅС „Р ° СЃ: http: //www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php? 64954-South-African-Nationa
          l-Defense-Force / page19

          listed the main prototypes, but that’s not all ...

          everything here .. info from: http: //strangernn.livejournal.com/128994.html
          from: http: //www.saarmourmuseum.co.za/lesakeng.html
          1. cosmos111
            cosmos111 7 November 2014 00: 53 New
            0
            photo from the Armory Museum in Bloemfontein (Armor Museum in Bloemfontein))))
            info from: http: //www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-64954-p-2.html
            South African National Defense Force
            c: http: //www.militaryphotos.net/forums/printthread.php? t = 64954 & pp = 40 & page = 8
            Roooikat... undermining
            клик
  • 31rus
    31rus 6 November 2014 23: 13 New
    +3
    The Wanderer032 was such an armored personnel carrier-90 A cartridge case with an exit through the stern, with an udt-32 engine, this did not solve the problems stated above, they write it correctly, the designers themselves admitted that about the rating, life has confirmed the right direction of development of wheeled BMPs / armored personnel carriers and a special machine. We need to study, test and take the best, but create our own, if not the first level of rating
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 7 November 2014 01: 12 New
      0
      Quote: 31rus
      there was such an armored personnel carrier-90 A sleeve with an exit through the stern, with an udt-32 engine, this did not solve the problems stated above


      Therefore, she did not decide that he didn’t need it there. It is very large in width and length.
      The essence itself is not in a specific engine, but in the fact that there are such diesel engines with small dimensions in height.
      Bus diesel engines are much more compact than UTDshek, they are in-line 6-cylinder, power is also not sickly. Plus they can be forced. There is not enough mind to design for yourself yet, buy a license from the Hungarians or from the Germans.
      By the way, for example, "slave" engines are very reliable in operation and have a large engine life.
  • kplayer
    kplayer 7 November 2014 00: 47 New
    +2
    Five generations of BTR "Piranha", indicative of Amer. analogues (wheel formula 8x8):
    I-BMP LAV-25 (2's local tower) - 12,8t; power dv-la - 275l.s.
    III-e - BTR "Stryker" M1126 ICV (no armored towers) - 16,5t; dv-l - 350l.s

    Of. General Dynamics, Inc. MOWAG (military assignment): http://www.gdels.com/products/products.asp
    + downloadable pdf files
    И
    Of. General Dynamics (Canada): http://www.gdlscanada.com/
    + downloadable pdf files (see DOWNLOAD A BROCHURE)
  • kplayer
    kplayer 9 November 2014 15: 34 New
    +1
    By the way, Alvis-Vickers (BAE Systems) acquired all rights to Piranha IV with production in the UK and South Africa, i.e. MOWAG (General Dynamics) no longer offers Piranha IV in the arms market.
  • bublic82009
    bublic82009 11 November 2014 23: 32 New
    0
    But is there information about their combat use somewhere? how did they behave in battle? like patency, armor resistance.
  • Beiderlei
    Beiderlei 1 December 2014 15: 13 New
    0
    Swiss armored personnel carrier as a watch!