Military Review

Jerzy, Shtevni and Zamvolt

45
The nose of the destroyer "Zamvolt" in the comments already looks like a hedgehog - so many broken copies of its shape. Metnu and his, out of respect for hedgehogs.

Jerzy, Shtevni and Zamvolt


The traditional hull shape with a bowing hinge and the collapse of the sides / bulwarks is mainly used to reduce the deck bay by a wave. Very good, for example, for trawlers, where brave anglers gutted sprat nets in the fresh air ... The same approach has some drawbacks, such as:

- increased fuel consumption for jumping on each medium and more waves;



- this jumping itself as a fact (including and especially harmful for the gutting of enemy kilka weapon systems that require precision fire guidance and target designation systems).

If we don’t give a damn about the deck bay (and what, are there working sailors?), Then we immediately have:

- fuel economy: it is easier to go through the wave (faster) than to roll over to the wave due to buoyancy (parasitic pitching), which is compensated by the shape of the nasal tip. And it significantly increases the range and speed;

- more stable body: it is easier to control the radar diagrams, optics and the ship in general, and more precisely to fire on the sprat. :)

Therefore, the construction of shipbuilders sworn partner does not look so awkward.

You can also look at the shape of the contour of the bottom of the destroyer (there is a picture somewhere on the site), which partially reminds me of a gliding solution ... There is little new under the moon, gliding contours and cutting nose with a direct or partially reverse head is used, for example, on class yachts Volvo Open. In which the size is smaller in 10, and the maximum travel speed is for 30 nodes. Under sail ... I consider it pointless to discuss the nautical qualities of the world's best racing boats around the world, so we’re just watching how it works:

Author:
45 comments
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  1. Crang
    Crang 31 October 2014 08: 42
    +5
    I'm talking about a cool battleship. It's time for us to switch to "irons" too. Fortunately, the experience from the time of Tsushima remained rich.
    1. bvi1965
      bvi1965 31 October 2014 10: 52
      +2
      He spoke, I speak and I will speak-RARE.
    2. Giant thought
      Giant thought 31 October 2014 11: 04
      0
      We need to take all the best that is in other designs and apply it in our shipbuilding industry.
      1. bulvas
        bulvas 31 October 2014 11: 25
        +7
        American engineers have never been fools, and financing allows you to test and implement the most daring ideas.

        They could compete with them only in one country of the world - the USSR


        And in the marine business they have vast experience.

        =======================================

        Yachts fascinate .... you can watch for hours



        1. Nayhas
          Nayhas 31 October 2014 11: 42
          +2
          Quote: bulvas
          Yachts fascinate .... you can watch for hours

          already goosebumps ... fiercely !!!!!
        2. Demetry
          Demetry 31 October 2014 12: 08
          0
          Quote: bulvas
          American engineers have never been fools, and financing allows you to test and implement the most daring ideas.

          You know, all the same, they had 2 dead end solutions that at first seemed revolutionary.
          The first is an attempt, on the positive experience of the civil war, to create nautical monitors. Just barely completed a few units and tied to this as a hopeless one.




          And the second is to create two-story towers a little later, saving on area and weight. Also, as you know, the initiative was a joint. But the ships turned out to be original.




          They pushed around and switched to Eurostandard))).

          So here we must wait for the results of operation.
          1. bulvas
            bulvas 31 October 2014 12: 34
            +3
            Quote: Demetry
            They pushed around and switched to Eurostandard))).

            So here we must wait for the results of operation.



            You can only repeat Churchill for the 100th time:

            - Americans always do the right thing after they try all the other options.


            In other words - if you don’t look, you will never find

            (but those who have imagination and money to test fantasies can search)
        3. Gogia
          Gogia 31 October 2014 14: 29
          +3
          Count how many missiles of different classes will be installed on Zamvolte. Look at him. This is a hybrid of a rocket submarine and a ship with a small displacement. Even if he does not plunge. Very interesting solution. Only at the expense of low visibility - in my opinion this is a fake. Any aircraft DLS will detect it from a very long distance. But in order to shoot a country like Syria, such ships of 5-6 pieces will be needed. And no battleships. Americans can count money. Zamvolta accounts for more than 1,5 missiles per 1 crew member ...
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Yankuz
      Yankuz 31 October 2014 18: 58
      +3
      And you thought why Aurora was taken from Peter? They will carefully study or modernize - the new well-forgotten old.
      1. abdrah
        abdrah 31 October 2014 22: 43
        +1
        here's another masterpiece concept from Soviet cinema true - Sherlock Holmes boat


        judging by the color of the euro 5 exhaust, the minimum ... lol
  2. seregatara1969
    seregatara1969 31 October 2014 08: 43
    +3
    brave seafarers-courageous people are struggling with the forces of nature. about the nose-new is not always accepted immediately and not by everyone, there is a lot of debate.
    1. PN
      PN 31 October 2014 09: 16
      0
      Yes, nothing new, look at the warships of the beginning of the last century, about the same. But the truth was this was done for a different purpose. The expansion in the waterline area was due to coal cellars, and they, in turn, played a role ... well, something like an armored belt from torpedoes.
  3. tilovaykrisa
    tilovaykrisa 31 October 2014 08: 43
    0
    Why what, but the armor there is just not there.
  4. zao74
    zao74 31 October 2014 08: 46
    -2
    But ours didn’t guess? Or can only with tips?
    1. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak 31 October 2014 12: 16
      -2
      Quote: zao74
      But ours didn’t guess?

      No! It’s just that we have a radical update, too often, with hostility. Example? Easily. The introduction of Stels technology in the USSR. They came up with, calculated, substantiated. Ugly, we will not do it. Penguins made first!
      Distrust of the new in the blood of Russians.
  5. Igarr
    Igarr 31 October 2014 08: 58
    +23
    Interesting opinion.
    I am not a shipbuilder, and I do not understand shipbuilding specialties.
    Only general considerations.
    Since the ship is surface, we cannot get rid of "parasitic pitching" in any way, even though we will cut through the wave, even planted, or even drill tunnels.
    Since we have a deck bay on the drum, there should be a superstructure bay on the drum. It would be interesting to calculate the wavelength in the North Atlantic in a standard storm, say 5 points and the length from the rod to the start of the superstructure.
    You see, it turns out that the nose cut through the wave, and the mother wave with all the dope shied around the superstructure. Repeatedly.
    I think questions with the antenna pattern will be removed at once. And with something else.
    ...
    My opinion is that the next, active, promising boy, in dreams of glory, decided to apply such a long-outdated solution to the stem. Remember the stems of the destroyers of the First World War - they are just those concave with a reverse slope.
    The sea will show the truth. Quickly.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 31 October 2014 09: 18
      +2
      So this is a littoral ship. In the open sea, he has nothing to do, there he dives under the wave and not the fact that he will emerge whole. Given that his nifig superstructure is not iron, the radars are mounted low ...
      But off the coast, where you need to quickly and generally in good weather, get to the right point is a perfectly justified decision.
      1. 17085
        17085 31 October 2014 11: 55
        +1
        Quote: Wedmak
        So this is a littoral ship

        With all due respect, but the Guided Missile Destroyer is not a Littoral Combat Ship. According to the American classification. There’s a good picture, look ... http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/rtnwcm/groups/gallery/documents/digitalasse
        t / rtn_180603.pdf
        Otherwise I completely agree with you. So it is on it that our "partners" are going to plow the seas-akiyans ... As far as I understood, in fact, this is a "semi-submarine" boat with limited use due to dubious survivability and the ability to use weapons in fresh weather.
    2. Silhouette
      Silhouette 31 October 2014 09: 30
      +4
      Absolutely correct remark, which nullifies all the "archuments" of the author of the article, an incompetent dilettante who can only laugh with his pearls. What are they worth:
      jumping on each medium and longer wave


      jumping as a fact

      the disemboweling of enemy kills by weapon systems requiring precision fire and target designation systems).


      Kindergarten.
      1. aleks 62
        aleks 62 31 October 2014 11: 41
        +4
        ....Kindergarten.....

        ..... Let's be a little condescending to the author of this opus (article) ..... After all, he (I think so) did not study at a shipbuilding university and showed his vision of the question in the key - "but it seems to me" .... ... hi
        1. Silhouette
          Silhouette 31 October 2014 13: 04
          0
          And where do the site moderators look, who do-it-yourself lower the site level below the baseboard?
    3. PSih2097
      PSih2097 31 October 2014 14: 18
      0
      Quote: Igarr
      Remember the stems of the destroyers of the First World War - they are just those concave with a reverse slope.

      that crap was called a ram, and for the galleys of ancient Greece, plus then they still hadn’t thought of a bulb ...
      1. Igarr
        Igarr 31 October 2014 14: 44
        +2
        No, Alexander, I’m talking about the stem.
        The ram itself, instead of the current bulbs.
        Only now I myself was mistaken, speaking about destroyers. It was necessary to say - destroyers.
        Destroyer type "Falcon", displacement of 250 tons.
        For boats, this form of tip was suitable.
  6. Major_Vortex
    Major_Vortex 31 October 2014 09: 08
    +7
    The density of water near the surface of the oceans is about 800 (!) Times higher than the density of air under normal conditions. Everyone knows how important the aerodynamic shape of an airplane is to improve its flight performance. So, in the water the hull of the ship experiences no less significant loads and its shape is no less important. The shape of the bow of the ship, especially its underwater part, is additional speed knots and tons of fuel saved, and the additional cost-effectiveness for a warship is also the autonomy of its navigation. The author touched on a very interesting topic.
    1. aleks 62
      aleks 62 31 October 2014 11: 43
      0
      ..... The shape of the nose is a tribute to the Stealth technology ..... From the point of view of hydrodynamics, not very ...
  7. Coward
    Coward 31 October 2014 09: 08
    +4
    - fuel economy: it is easier to go through the wave (faster) than to roll over to the wave due to buoyancy (parasitic pitching), which is compensated by the shape of the nasal tip. And it significantly increases the range and speed;
    Wow! And the shipbuilders were either out of ignorance or were in cahoots with the fuel companies when they began to move away from the bows without collapse. Look at the pictures of the same "Aurora" and civil ships of that time.
    And further.
    jumping on each medium and longer wave
    Called slaming. Also, to eliminate pitching, an active pitching damper has been put on ships of the ocean zone and some scientific vessels for a long time.
  8. Fantazer911
    Fantazer911 31 October 2014 09: 17
    0
    It was like a program about narwegs I don’t remember exactly, this form of the nose in laboratory conditions greatly increases seaworthiness and saves fuel, but how it affects the navigability of a warship is not yet clear, but I think that before implementing this form it is necessary tests and the like, and research today, with the development of computer technology, modeling shows the paths of least resistance to the passage of the path. so here in this case, time will tell whether he is right or not. I don’t think that they’re sitting there and planning, that although everyone knows that their school and base are much backward than ours
  9. Wedmak
    Wedmak 31 October 2014 09: 35
    +3
    The debate about which shape of the nose is better in my opinion has not been going on for the first decade. Even in the magazine "Young Technician" for 1989, I read about semi-submersible ... icebreakers! That is, it is proposed not to press on the ice from above, with the mass of the ship, as is done now, but to break it open from under the water, even cutting it from below. In the first case, the ice strength is complemented by the "resistance" of water, in the second, the well-known Archimedes' law works. Of course, there are also disadvantages - it can hold a semi-submersible vessel in the ice for one or two times.
    1. Coward
      Coward 31 October 2014 14: 26
      +1
      In the same issue, submarine tankers for servicing Arctic oil fields were described.
  10. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 31 October 2014 09: 36
    +1
    Scientists have been building ships with similar noses for a long time. From conversations with those who worked on such ships, we can conclude that yes, on the wave they behave much calmer, they seem to "cut" the wave and the pitching is much less.
    1. Prager
      Prager 31 October 2014 09: 38
      +1
      absolutely true statement!
    2. Drednout
      Drednout 31 October 2014 11: 15
      +1
      Not only scientists, but also oil industry workers and axle boxes with a similar shape are already in full swing. An interesting and promising solution.
  11. shinobi
    shinobi 31 October 2014 09: 42
    +2
    What is the shape of this device and its seaworthiness are fading into the background before the fact that they safely ignored the design of the ship. Its standard radar is so proud of which all airborne weapons systems are tied, however, unification is blind in height 0 and up to 15 m above sea level at distances up to 30 km from the ship. That is, it is blind against almost all modern RCCs of the world. What is the use of its systems if the same Yakhont for rapprochement goes to a height of 7 m above the sea and can hit completely from where it originally flew.
  12. Abbra
    Abbra 31 October 2014 09: 48
    +3
    an experiment is an experiment. The sea and "Yakhont" will show who is right.
  13. crambol
    crambol 31 October 2014 10: 18
    +5
    Very good, for example, for trawlers, where brave fishermen gutted sprat nets in the fresh air.


    Offended to impossibility. Since when did fishermen (and not fishermen!) Gut the sprat nets?
    1. Mhpv
      Mhpv 31 October 2014 11: 00
      +4
      A set of words, a fence of thoughts. Fishermen, sprats, nets, jumping on the wave, why submit the material?
      Ship though
      So this is a littoral ship. In the open sea he has nothing to do
      but just from the wiki:
      The destroyers of this series are multi-purpose and are intended for enemy attacks on the coast, the fight against enemy aircraft and fire support of troops from the sea.
      , and to reach this device to the coastal zone of the enemy will be through the ocean, or Atlantic or Pacific.
      I do not think that our shipbuilders did not test this option, it is also possible that the Americans are trying to send their opponents in the wrong way, throwing money in because they can advertise g .... but by making candy out of it everyone knows.
      The wave is not just a mound of water, you dive into the sea and see what happens to the water inside the wave. And it is possible if the Zamvolta stem cuts into the wave, then huge masses of water will fall on top of the rest of the ship, and this is not fluff, a powerful blow.
      I learned one rule for life and I teach children: Jokes are bad with water! hi
      In general, we will wait for the results, although the Americans are not recognized in many miscalculations and mistakes because money is more important for them, and not a little has been spent.
      1. Mhpv
        Mhpv 31 October 2014 11: 04
        +4
        Here is a small example:
        1. aleks 62
          aleks 62 31 October 2014 11: 52
          +3
          There is nothing supernatural in the video ..... Ordinary elastic deformations of the hull ..... The same are present in aircraft in the fuselage and wing ..... Who flew - he knows ..... These are calculated moments ... .
          1. Lone wolf
            Lone wolf 31 October 2014 17: 59
            0
            I did not understand in the video where the storm is ???? the camera and the deck are absolutely not movable, even the rolling of the light is not noticeable, just at the end of the corridor the image bends a little, but in order to have deformations, it must seriously storm
  14. Alexander
    Alexander 31 October 2014 10: 20
    +3
    It is always interesting to listen to the opinion of an amateur, teaching shipbuilders and designers with many years of experience in building ships, how to make ships.
  15. Sergey Sitnikov
    Sergey Sitnikov 31 October 2014 10: 25
    +1
    - minus, I absolutely care about hell on his nose / tank, knowing the mattresses - a beautiful VISUAL touch to justify cutting the budget, remember the diamond sewn into the penis and the answer to the question is this - can you see the trunk? You at least stick all of it to him!
  16. Serg65
    Serg65 31 October 2014 10: 45
    +6
    I’m most interested, the author ever sailed (for special pros .. went) on a ship in a storm, well, at least in 5 points? The author imagines a picture when a ship in 14 500 tone, with a draft of 8,5 meters (TTX Zamovolta) meets the wave from the 3-storey building at 30-nodes? I assure you, the blow is such that the whole body is trembling. The article says that, with this design of the nose, pitching will be minimized !! ?? The length of the body is 180 meters, the average distance between the crests of the ocean wave is 40-50 meters, the stem is cutting the wave, the previous wave is already starting to lift the waist, since cutting the stem with the wave does not make the autobahn from it, and the one going in front of the middle wave starts to expose the screws. Vague suspicions gnaw me that sowing a contraption will bury its nose too much! The same yachts in Vidio, with the excitement in the 3 ball (the lamb on the waves only began to appear) are poured from the bow to the stern and this despite the fact that the hull runs almost over the surface of the water.
    1. crambol
      crambol 31 October 2014 12: 29
      0
      the average distance between the crests of the ocean wave is 40-50 meters,


      Dear Serg65! Let me disagree with you. 40-50 m is a wave in shallow water, for example, in the North Sea, where the depths are 50-80 m. The ocean wave is much longer, I personally observed 150 and more than 200 meters in the Atlantic. Where does the meaning come from? And our floating base was 169 m, so it was not difficult to measure.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 31 October 2014 13: 32
        +3
        crambol ... George, I won’t even argue with you and I completely agree with you ... in the Biskaya length district, as you say 150-200 m, in the Kanar region it is already smaller, although you are right if you take 100- averaged 120 meters. but this is not manna from heaven for this ship. The deflection of the body will be even more significant.
  17. pr 627
    pr 627 31 October 2014 11: 35
    +4
    Comrade, it seems that the ocean is a puddle in which there is a small wave and a little more. And in the design of ships there is no concept of seaworthiness and the term germination on a wave. In memory, the trip of "Kuznetsov" and escort ships to the North Atlantic is not the most severe storm caused light damage to the hull structures of AB. The ships of the convoy, having a smaller displacement, were storming in the heaviest version. The missions of the campaign were not fulfilled, the aviation was not raised. What would happen if the stem of the "iron" type met a wave with a height of 7-9 meters over and over again for several days and cut it through ? What will happen to the deck equipment, hatch covers, gun turrets, superstructures. When designing the NK, the theater on which it will be used and the tasks that it will perform are taken into account. If the Americans believe that the tasks and navigation area are within the power of the "iron", they installed it. Regarding the design of hulls, for yachts such concepts as height and wavelength are appropriate only if the length of the hull is commensurate with the wavelength. If the wavelength is longer than the hull, the yacht becomes a float. In general, a two for illiteracy.
  18. IAlex
    IAlex 31 October 2014 12: 02
    +2
    I do not understand much about ships, but something subconsciously tells me that in a storm with huge waves, it will simply bury itself in them, passing them like a semi-submarine ... Although most likely amerovskie desman thought than when it was created, because the fleet that's all of them, incl. he should normally "float" and look beautiful for Hollywood ...
  19. 3vs
    3vs 31 October 2014 16: 35
    +1
    And if the ship’s nose is in the form of a dolphin’s head?
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. Lone wolf
    Lone wolf 31 October 2014 18: 11
    0
    All these noses of this shape were already in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, well, not so sharp an angle, but the iron is an iron no matter which bulb there is ,, you can read about the behavior of such a ship during a storm at Novikov Priboy in Tsushima’s book
  22. nomad74
    nomad74 31 October 2014 20: 33
    +1
    The main thing is to experiment, make small and inexpensive prototypes and separate the grains there. Video where yachts with sailing weapons and for 30 knots are fascinating, just super!
  23. EREMA
    EREMA 31 October 2014 22: 05
    +1
    the solution is revolutionary, but probably with modern technology calculated ...
  24. Throw
    31 October 2014 22: 35
    +2
    So, friends, in order.
    First of all, I will answer to respected opponents, as well as to personalities, "professionals", "shipbuilders" and other fans of skirting boards.
    I have:
    1. The education of the Faculty of Physics of Moscow State University, and lectures on the mechanics, compromise, statics and dynamics of gases and liquids, etc., I will read especially broadly at times. And I will show how it works on high-speed yachts, in the design of which I took a little part. And if I write in simple terms, then the kindergarten must understand that we are not in the TsAGI pool, but on a site with a wide range of readers, of which not all trolls and Bernoulli are.
    2. Yachting experience (including regattas) since the mid-90's. Starting from training daggers to racing and cruising boats of category A (ocean swimming zone).
    So the peculiarities of the work of different types of hulls and contours on different waves I studied not in the tyrnet, but with my skin and vestibular apparatus) And not in the cabotage ... This is on the topic "did the author swim .."
    Don't ask about points at all if you don't understand on what scale. But if and by anyone who said 5 is a "storm" ?? bully
    Therefore, what is written in the article, I do not "imkhoyu" like some "kamenters", but I KNOW. Practically. I also understand and can.

    Now to the content part.
    The "horrors" of "semi-submarine sailing with the conning tower to the antennas" were not implied in any way. A hull with a long and narrow tank, without collapse of the sides and with a return pin is calculated so that a wave commensurate with its characteristic dimensions or less is "stitched", to a larger one it starts to ascend due to the buoyancy and hydrodynamics of the bottom contours. These factors are beginning to outweigh the stem effect.
    Watch the video, everything is perfectly visible there, not only laid out for beauty. In the cockpit, Charcot's shower, but the sail does not flood. And hydrodynamics works the same for an ace and an aircraft carrier.
    The destroyer, as I understand it, the weapons are all hidden, and the team really does not work on deck. Therefore, with the max move, for a quick exit to the desired area, there are no problems. The work of the team will appear in calm - to scrub the deck from salt. wink
    I did not write an important point in the article: in the classic "full" contours during the course against a large wave, in addition to the blunt waste of the kinetic energy of the stroke on splashing tons and hundreds of tons of water (with a sprat wassat ), there is another minus: you can’t go fast, you’ll gouge the boat. Yacht - together with the mast. If the nose is a long narrow straight line, go ahead and do not take the reefs. Only nekrokontsy do not forget.
  25. Throw
    31 October 2014 22: 35
    0
    Here for some reason, but traditionally, they dragged "Kuznetsov". Battered by a storm .. So, those shell yachts, weighing about 14 tons (! Not thousands) with outlines a la Zamwalt, unlike squadrons and commercial vessels, storm cyclones do not bypass, but go there on purpose. This is the only way to win the race. What is already storming for the cruiser, then for the Volvo Open it is the move, they are so designed. And the nose here is the first thing ..)
    And how many times in 40 thousand miles around the world their noses and hulls at full speed meet with any waves sofa theorists named after the galley "Kuznetsov" can count with a calculator)

    These are, comrades-in-arms, harsh facts, but IMHO I’ll write all the same: if I had designed such contours of the device, I would definitely have made a partially gliding case and tuning according to the trim, i.e. would include ballast tanks in appropriate places. And IMHO, that it is there. Like sedatives, etc. And I think that in the case of the suspected destroyer, it was not without the design bureau of racing boats. So we have a healthy battleship yacht without a mast. Waiting for a test storm bully
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. Normal ok
    Normal ok 31 October 2014 22: 42
    0
    In general, we’ll see what will happen in five years. To be continued :)