Military Review

The main directions of development of the sea self-defense forces of Japan

24
The Pacific is strategically important for several states. In the foreseeable future, it may become an arena for the confrontation between China and the United States, as well as their allies. In particular, the situation in the Pacific seriously affects the strategic position and security of Japan. In recent years, this island nation is engaged in the implementation of a number of plans related to increasing the combat effectiveness of its Self-Defense Forces. The geographical position of the state makes the Japanese military leaders pay great attention to the naval forces of self-defense. In the near future, this structure should receive a large number of new equipment of various classes.

The development of Japan's naval self-defense forces in the coming years will be carried out by three methods, implying the supply of new equipment. The first direction of development is the construction of new helicopter destroyers. The second is the further construction of submarines under the updated Soryu project. Third - equipment fleet new destroyers with a combat information management system (CIUS) Aegis. In addition, it is planned to update the marine Aviation and other techniques of naval self-defense forces. All of this is expected to increase the potential of the Japanese Self-Defense Forces at sea.

Auxiliary measures in the development of the sea self-defense forces are plans to purchase a certain number of anti-submarine airplanes and helicopters. According to the Defense News portal, the Japanese military department intends to upgrade the fleet of anti-submarine helicopters SH-60K for several years. In addition, Kawasaki must build and transfer military 20 P-1 patrol aircraft to the military, which will replace the outdated P-3C.


SH-60K



P-1


However, the focus will be on the construction of surface ships and submarines. The corresponding defense spending will be envisaged for these purposes in the defense budgets of the future. All these measures are aimed at creating a powerful naval "shield" that can repel an attack from third countries. At the same time, Japan will continue to cooperate with the United States, which will create an integrated defense system. In this case, the Japanese naval self-defense forces will perform the functions of protection, and the strike role will fall on the ships of the United States Navy.

In recent years, Japanese naval shipbuilding sets record after record. In March 2009, the destroyer-helicopter carrier "Hyuga" of the project of the same name was included in the naval self-defense forces. Two years later, his sistership “Ise” entered service. These ships are equipped with rocket and artillery anti-aircraft weapons, as well as anti-submarine systems. Helicopter destroyers with a total displacement of 18000 tons (normal less than 14000 tons) are capable of transporting up to 11 helicopters and ensure their combat operations. Officially, the task of the ships of the type "Hyuga" is the implementation of anti-submarine defense. Currently, these helicopter destroyers are the largest warships in Japan since the Second World War.



In August last year, the Izumo type head destroyer was launched. The ship with a total displacement of 27000 tons is planned to be commissioned in the spring of next year. According to reports, the Izumo can carry up to 28 helicopters. The normal composition of the aviation group - 15 helicopters for various purposes. It is planned to build two destroyers-helicopter carrier of the new project. After the start of the service, the Izumo helicopter destroyer will receive the unofficial title of Japan’s largest self-defense force in the post-war period.


Launch ceremony for heavy Izumo class helicopter carrier, 6 August 2013. Photo: Toru Hanai / Reuters


It is expected that the large size of the ships of the new type will allow them to accommodate a relatively large aviation group and a greater number of various equipment and weapons. All this should affect their anti-submarine capabilities. In addition, ships of the "Izumo" type can be used as the flagship of the naval self-defense forces.

In the foreseeable future, Japan will continue to build non-nuclear submarines of the “Litter” project. To date, five submarines of this type are in operation, the last of which was accepted into the naval self-defense forces last spring. Another submarine is now being tested, one has recently been launched and one is on the slipway. According to the existing plans, ten litter-type submarines should be built.

The main directions of development of the sea self-defense forces of Japan


This year the Soryu-type submarines twice became the subject of discussion among specialists and amateurs of military affairs. In June, it became known that Japan and Australia agreed to hold several joint projects in the field of the submarine fleet. The result of this work should be a modernized version of the project "Litter", which will be built several submarines for the Australian Navy.

At the beginning of autumn, the command of the Japanese self-defense naval forces spoke about their plans for the development of the submarine fleet. It was argued that the further development of submarines will be based on a number of new technologies, including the use of lithium-ion batteries. Nevertheless, it is not completely clear which submarines will be equipped with such batteries. The introduction of new technologies can be carried out in the course of modernization of the project “Littering” or in the development of new submarines.

The submarines of the Soryu project are representatives of a small class of submarines equipped with an air-independent power plant. Instead of classic diesel engines, these submarines are equipped with Stirling engines, allowing them to have a significantly greater cruising range in a submerged position. The use of new electric motors and lithium-ion batteries of larger capacity should significantly improve the performance of promising submarines.

The third direction in the development of the Japanese self-defense naval forces is the construction of new surface ships equipped with the Aegis power supply system and the corresponding armament. In 2007 and 2008, the combat strength of the naval self-defense forces was replenished with two Atago-type destroyers equipped with this combat information and control system. Ships with a total displacement of more than 10000 tons carry universal vertical launchers Mk41 American development. In the bow of the ships "Atago" and "Asigara" there is a launcher with 64 cells to accommodate various types of missiles, in the stern - with 32 cells. In connection with the existing restrictions, the ships of the Atago project are armed only with anti-aircraft and anti-submarine missiles.



The destroyers Atago managed to show their potential, thanks to which the command of the naval forces of self-defense plans to order new ships of this type. In cooperation with specialists from the United States who will be responsible for the supply of various equipment and weapons, it is planned to build six more destroyers of a new type. The last ship of the series must be delivered by 2020 year. A fourfold increase in the grouping of the Atago destroyers should significantly increase the anti-aircraft and anti-submarine capabilities of the Japanese fleet.

It is easy to see that two of the three planned projects are directly related to strengthening the protection of ship connections from an attack from the air or from under the water. Due to a number of features of Japanese legislation, Izumo-type destroyers and Atago-type destroyers have a specific set of weapons, which imposes serious restrictions on the range of tasks to be performed. These ships have a developed range of anti-aircraft and anti-submarine systems, but they are not equipped with any attack weapons.

The current plans for the development of naval self-defense forces envisage the construction of only one type of equipment capable of striking surface and underwater targets. These are “Soryu” type submarines capable of using UGM-84 Harpoon torpedoes and missiles. Their impact potential directly depends on the possibility of a long stay under water without the need for ascent provided by an air-independent power plant.

At first glance, the planned distribution of defense and attack tasks between surface ships and submarines, respectively, can reduce the defense capability of all Japanese self-defense forces. Nevertheless, such features of the fleet construction will allow not only to comply with all restrictions of the existing legislation, but also to bring it in line with the existing geographical conditions. The fact is that the main potential opponents of Japan - the DPRK and China - are located at a relatively short distance from it and thanks to this they can effectively attack Japanese ships using aviation, and in some cases using coastal systems.

The geography of the Japan, Yellow and East China seas is such that for effective combat work in them the fleet must have a large number of modern submarines carrying strike weapons. Thus, Japan, taking into account the possible risks, should really continue building the submarines of the “Litter” project, as well as develop new submarines with higher characteristics.

An equally important direction in the development of the fleet in this case is the construction of surface ships with a developed anti-submarine weapon system. So, destroyers-helicopter carriers of the Izumo type, as well as ships of the Hyuga and Sirane projects in service are primarily intended to survey water areas and search for enemy submarines. Modern destroyers of Japan also have advanced sonar and anti-submarine systems. In addition, they are equipped with modern anti-aircraft systems to protect against air attack.

The current plans of the Japanese Self-Defense Forces Command in the field of fleet development imply the construction of new equipment with the aim of replacing the aging and increasing its combat capability. So far, plans for the development of naval self-defense forces speak of a desire to update ships and submarines in a timely manner, while maintaining and improving fleet performance. In the context of the existing plans of the Japanese military department, there are often concerns about the existence of other aggressive intentions that will begin to be implemented after the implementation of current programs.

However, for the time being there is no reason to imply Japan in carrying out unfriendly plans. At the same time, the Japanese naval self-defense forces are forced to build new ships and submarines in order to be able to react in a timely manner to emerging threats. The Pacific region is attracting the attention of many countries. China is developing its armed forces in general and the Navy in particular, and the United States, being its main competitor in the region, plans to transfer to the Pacific Ocean most of its military fleet. Thus, all states in the region, including Japan, should pay attention to the development of their armies and naval forces. Official Tokyo has already identified the main directions of development of its fleet.


On the materials of the sites:
http://defensenews.com/
http://globalsecurity.org/
http://defense-update.com/
http://janes.com/
http://naval-technology.com/
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  1. Chkalov
    Chkalov 31 October 2014 08: 48
    +3
    samurai are arming
    1. Kibalchish
      Kibalchish 31 October 2014 12: 27
      +5
      Everyone is arming now. And the article is excellent.
  2. Prager
    Prager 31 October 2014 09: 26
    +1
    whatever you say - they are our potential enemies in the Far East. as they were, they remained.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 31 October 2014 10: 50
      +12
      Quote: Prager
      whatever you say - they are our potential enemies in the Far East. as they were, they remained.

      You are a victim of Chinese agitation. Despite the absence of a peace treaty, Japan among all the capitalist countries was distinguished by increased loyalty to the USSR. This is the only developed country with advanced technology openly trading with the USSR, bypassing sanctions, despite the unresolved dispute over the islands. In the 90s, when everything was sold and for money it was possible to crank up any fraud, Japan did not take the opportunity like China, and did not regain the island in this way, although there was an opportunity. So they are not enemies to us.
      1. Kibalchish
        Kibalchish 31 October 2014 12: 30
        +6
        Exactly. Suffice it to recall how Toshiba sold us prohibited machine tools for processing submarine propellers.
      2. Sailor
        Sailor 31 October 2014 19: 33
        +2
        I completely agree with you, not the dog that barks is dangerous (Japan), but which can bite from the sill (China). For Japan, our position is more important than ever, against the backdrop of a growing and aggressive China.
        1. Talgat
          Talgat 31 October 2014 20: 24
          0
          Yes, maybe the Japanese sold machines. and the threat of China no one knows and does not realize since we are in Kazakhstan

          but it seems that in the two developing camps in the world, we and the Russian Federation and Belarusians with China and many others in one camp and the Japanese from the USA and the West in the other

          for the next 20-30 years, at least the world enters the period of confrontation between these two camps
      3. BIG
        BIG 6 November 2014 11: 01
        +1
        Quote: Nayhas
        You are a victim of Chinese agitation.

        And you, excuse me, what kind of agitation is the victim?
        Lessons of history in nothing? The main image.
  3. Bongo
    Bongo 31 October 2014 09: 44
    +9
    It is rather strange that Japanese new aircraft-carrying ships are persistently called "destroyers". We can agree that the old destroyers-helicopter carriers of the "Shirane" class really are (only one ship remained in the ranks). Ships of the "Hyuga" and "Izumo" type are full-fledged light aircraft carriers, with the possibility of basing VTOL aircraft on them.
    1. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 31 October 2014 10: 23
      +5
      Quote: Bongo
      The Hyuuga and Izumo are full-fledged light aircraft carriers
      They have a ban on aircraft carriers in the constitution, so they are perverted in the names.
      1. Bongo
        Bongo 31 October 2014 10: 28
        +7
        Quote: Thunderbolt
        They have a ban on aircraft carriers in the constitution, so they are perverted in the names.

        They have in general a ban on the armed forces in the constitution, but this does not interfere much with the Japanese. This year, the Japanese cabinet decided to establish the Marine Corps.
        1. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 31 October 2014 10: 34
          +4
          Rumor has it that they indulge with weapons-grade plutonium. All post-war agreements are down the drain. The world understands only power. And the Japanese really want to be understood correctly (especially the Chinese). And we sad
    2. Demetry
      Demetry 31 October 2014 12: 22
      +2
      Quote: Bongo
      It is rather strange that the Japanese new aircraft carriers are persistently called "destroyers".

      Well, it would be strange if the world did not exist aircraft carriers cruisers with a displacement of 40 - 000 tons wink
      The same Iran also has destroyers with the armament of the boat and the displacement of a corvette.
  4. korjik
    korjik 31 October 2014 10: 13
    +5
    Compared TTX Izumo and Mistral. 30 knots versus 19. I don’t even know who to congratulate on the acquisition? Either the best Supreme Commander of all time, or the Hero of Russia and the best Minister of Defense of all time, or the best Minister of Finance of all time. It’s just amazing when you get inspired by the idea that we have all the best leaders.
    1. Demetry
      Demetry 31 October 2014 12: 27
      +9
      Quote: korjik
      Compared TTX Izumo and Mistral. 30 knots versus 19. I don’t even know who to congratulate on the acquisition? Either the best Supreme Commander of all time, or the Hero of Russia and the best Minister of Defense of all time, or the best Minister of Finance of all time. It’s just amazing when you get inspired by the idea that we have all the best leaders.

      And you still compare the fighter with the tank in speed. Then not only marvel wink

      It is like different ships. Japanese for action at sea, French for delivery of the Marine Corps. If you take an interest, in the world in general ALL LANDING SHIPS have a speed of around 20 knots. Generally 20+.
      Here is America's newest super duper paratrooper at 45t has only 000 knots. Yes, a little more than that of Mistral (to be honest, I agree that 22-1-2 nodes could have been added to him), but not critically more. They do not agree with each other in an artillery duel. wink

      So what about the "best ministers" you got excited. All ministers build roughly the same ships.

      ----------

      And so the article - "gallop through Europe". A banal statement of well-known - publicly available facts.

      This is how to write an article that a person breathes air with N part of oxygen. And the more oxygen the easier it is for him to breathe .... Murzilka .....
    2. Kibalchish
      Kibalchish 31 October 2014 12: 28
      +2
      Xbga anti-submarine ship. There is nothing to do with Mistral.
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 31 October 2014 13: 20
        +2
        Quote: Demetry
        It is like different ships. Japanese for action at sea, French for delivery of the Marine Corps. If you take an interest, in the world in general ALL LANDING SHIPS have a speed of around 20 knots. Generally 20+.
        Here is America's newest super duper paratrooper at 45t has only 000 knots. Yes, a little more than that of Mistral (to be honest, I agree that 22-1-2 nodes could have been added to him), but not critically more. They do not agree with each other in an artillery duel wink

        at DVKD "DokDo" Maximum speed - up to 22 knots, cruising speed - 18 knots.
    3. kplayer
      kplayer 31 October 2014 14: 38
      +2
      Quote: korjik
      Compared TTX Izumo and Mistral. 30 knots vs 19

      Power plants - 4 gas turbines GE LM2500 with a total capacity of 112 thousand hp, versus 3 diesel engines with a total capacity of 20,4 thousand hp Landing transport with a docking chamber against the destroyer (count the cruiser), Kr and EsM are, by definition, high-speed escort ships of the fleet, especially with the PLO function.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. korjik
      korjik 31 October 2014 15: 19
      +1
      I realized! sorry got excited. repeat But I wonder if, instead of a battalion of marines, to install a pair of batteries in Mistral, C-horseradish knows which and two hundred cruise missiles, this wunderwaffle would be better? No.
      1. Demetry
        Demetry 31 October 2014 15: 47
        +5
        Quote: korjik
        I realized! sorry got excited. feel But I wonder if, instead of a battalion of marines, to install a pair of batteries in Mistral, C-horseradish knows which and two hundred cruise missiles, would this wunderwaffle be better? no

        YES NAFIG ALL THIS IS WRITTEN ???
        Well, where does such a passion cram into the unforgettable ??? Here you are, when you buy an electric meat grinder and you see that there is such a tube for pushing meat, that you will push it there? Meat ??? (what was it designed for) or other items? : Hairbrushes, pencils, passport and what (ugh you are) other members ???.
        Electric meat grinder for chopping meat or vegetables and for nothing else !!!

        Also Mistral for TRANSPORTATION OF TROOPS and not for anything else. And any desire to use (electric meat grinder) Mistral for other purposes is fraught with breakdowns and lower performance !!!

        Damn, I used to wonder why there is such an item in the instructions for the microwave in the west
        - "You can't dry cats in the microwave"

        Now I'm starting to understand why and for whom it is written.
        It is necessary to write in the instructions for Mistral "You cannot 1) transport potatoes, 2) turn Mistral into a cruiser 3) launch Mistral into space 4) ............." ... then add yourself wink
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 31 October 2014 16: 16
          +1
          Quote: Demetry
          Damn, I used to wonder why there is such an item in the instructions for the microwave in the west
          - "You can't dry cats in the microwave"

          TRUE?!!!!!! Why haven’t you written before ?! And I wondered what they were after the microwave as inanimate and in pieces ...
          1. Demetry
            Demetry 31 October 2014 16: 21
            +2
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            TRUE?!!!!!! Why haven’t you written before ?! And I wondered what they were after the microwave as inanimate and in pieces ...

            Irony??? In vain. Do you think we only think that the best way is to put strategic strike systems into the landing ship? No.
            They also have grannies who try to dry cats in the microwave.

            Only here it all ends: "Oh, again in vain they threw the milliard into the wind, the next one will master."
            And they have to do this for the manufacturer (by court order) to pay for the fact that he did not warn that it is impossible to use the purchased things for other purposes.
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 31 October 2014 16: 35
              +3
              Quote: Demetry
              Irony???

              God forbid !!!!
              I was very upset when it became clear that we were buying the Mistral. To us, these ships are trite to anything now, in my IMHO.
              But when I heard about the ideas to install anti-ship missiles and powerful air defense systems (like C-400) on them ... it's just enchanting stupidity. Even the idea of ​​a TAVKR (combining aviation and strike weapons on the same ship) is essentially vicious - if we want to have carrier-based aviation, we need a ship that most effectively plays the role of a floating airfield, which means there is nothing to clutter it with what does not serve its main purpose.
              The quintessence of the Navy’s task in the case of the Mistral is to ensure that not a single sss ... the female dog gets to the ship on which the whole battalion of marines are being transported. The situation in which the landing ship SAM itself reflects the attacks of enemy aircraft is absurd by definition. And I just can’t imagine what a fabulous fuck ... uh ... a citizen came up with to make Mistral play the role of an attack ship with anti-ship missiles on board ?! !!
              PS And my previous comment is just a joke. Sorry if unsuccessful hi
              1. Demetry
                Demetry 31 October 2014 16: 47
                0
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                God forbid !!!!

                Sorry. So I just do not understand.
                And yes. The constant desire to shove something to which the platform is not intended is our long-standing weakness.

                But, I think, in conjunction with the negative (that the truth is not entirely clear the role of the Mistals in the fleet) there are also positive aspects. Firstly, the ship will be built (this is races) and on time (these are two).
                The pole, as it is often mentioned, is our Alaverdi for helping to eliminate the consequences of the 080808 war and for deals with our launch vehicles.
                Well, from myself I will add as an attempt to live in peace with the world and not a dog. But you can forget about this attempt for a long time.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 31 October 2014 16: 56
                  +2
                  Quote: Demetry
                  Firstly, the ship will be built (this is races) and on time (these are two).

                  We would have ordered a full-fledged aircraft carrier - the benefits would not be more than an example :)))
                  Quote: Demetry
                  The pole, as it is often mentioned, is our Alaverdi for helping to eliminate the consequences of the 080808 war and for deals with our launch vehicles.

                  There is an interesting nuance - in parallel with the Mistral deal, it was rumored to have concluded a deal related to space research for the same amount ... however, the French already paid :))
                  Quote: Demetry
                  Well, from myself I’ll add as an attempt to live in peace with the world and not dog

                  Generally speaking, it’s difficult to think of a better way to troll the whole of Europe. They put the French ... in a very uncomfortable position - on the one hand, they need to execute Uncle Sam's orders, and on the other, it is unprofitable to miss a profit :))))
                  1. Demetry
                    Demetry 31 October 2014 17: 28
                    0
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    We would have ordered a full-fledged aircraft carrier - the benefits would not be more than an example :)))

                    I apologize for any DOR here on the der were harassed by the Mistrals, imagine what would be about aircraft carriers? Here the diesel was wrong. There would be Uranus would be the wrong half-life)))
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    There is an interesting nuance - in parallel with the Mistral deal, it was rumored to have concluded a deal related to space research for the same amount ... however, the French already paid :))

                    That's what I said about this while mentioning rocket launchers.
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    Generally speaking, it’s difficult to think of a better way to troll the whole of Europe. They put the French ... in a very uncomfortable position - on the one hand, they need to execute Uncle Sam's orders, and on the other, it is unprofitable to miss a profit :))))

                    Well, I don’t know who wanted to troll whom, but so far our economy is stagnating and is on the verge of a crisis and not the French one. Something tells me that this contract is like a bun for dessert after a full meal. It seems like it doesn’t hurt, but without it it’s normal.
                    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 31 October 2014 17: 38
                      +1
                      Quote: Demetry
                      Well, I don’t know who wanted to troll whom, but so far our economy is stagnating and is on the verge of crisis and not French

                      Our economy is not stagnating. She was, so to speak, stuck in place. And this is not even so bad - 10 years ago, a drop in oil to 85 bucks would be a catastrophe for us. And today, nothing.
                      Quote: Demetry
                      Something tells me that this contract is like a bun for dessert after a full meal.

                      Not at all. The French talked about closing the shipyard and dispersing the workers. Our order saved a minimum of 2000 jobs. In general, the French VERY needed this order. Yes, and the French economy ... You know, I will say seditious thought, but ours looks preferable today
                      1. Demetry
                        Demetry 31 October 2014 17: 54
                        0
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Our economy is not stagnating. She was, so to speak, stuck in place. And this is not even so bad - 10 years ago, a drop in oil to 85 bucks would be a catastrophe for us. And today, nothing.

                        Well, about 10 years ago, with an oil price of 30-40-50 dollars, a price of 85 would be like manna from heaven))). But then we lived on 40 bucks. And now we live at 100.
                        This is at the price of oil 100-110 gold and foreign currency from the beginning of the year crashed from 510 to 440 billion. What do you think will be at the price of 85? especially if we recall that we are going to live on a budget on the 96 price tag ???


                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Not at all. The French talked about closing the shipyard and dispersing the workers. Our order saved a minimum of 2000 jobs.

                        Well, actually, the conversation was about several hundred jobs. And this against the background of several tens of millions throughout France. Sorry, not serious. And if you recall the deal tied to space, we can say that shipbuilders would lose their jobs, and satellite builders would get a job.
                        Moreover, do not forget that under the same contract thousands of our workers also got jobs ...


                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Yes, and the French economy ... You know, I will say seditious thought, but ours looks preferable today

                        Hmmm, share what it is preferable? A tie to the price tag of oil, to sanctions or to some political persons who can throw a pretzel without paying any attention to anyone?
                        To you, as a citizen of Russia, our economy may be preferable. But the world community thinks (and invests money) in a completely different way (((
                      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 31 October 2014 18: 37
                        +1
                        Quote: Demetry
                        Well, 10 years ago, at the price of oil in 30-40-50 dollars, the price in 85 would be like manna from heaven))).

                        Frankly - blurted out without thinking :))) I apologize.
                        I mean, our current economy demonstrates much greater resistance to external factors than it was 10 years ago.
                        Quote: Demetry
                        This is at the price of oil 100-110 gold and foreign currency from the beginning of the year crashed from 510 to 440 billion. What do you think will be at the price of 85? especially if we recall that we are going to live on a budget on the 96 price tag ???

                        In general, I don’t see the tragedy. We at 2014, if anything, entered into almost direct confrontation with the West, sanctions were imposed on us, the usual commodity circulation was violated to a certain extent. Not the highest price
                        Quote: Demetry
                        Well, actually, the conversation was about several hundred jobs. And this against the background of several tens of millions throughout France

                        Where from? They have an economically active population below 30 million and a high unemployment rate
                        Quote: Demetry
                        Hmmm, share what it is preferable?

                        Sure, not a problem.
                        France’s foreign trade balance is negative, i.e. they buy more than they sell. The Russian Federation has a positive one.
                        The national debt of the Russian Federation is invisible, of France - at 100% of GDP.
                        The GDP growth rate in the Russian Federation ranged from 4,3% in 2010 and decreased to 1,3% in 2013. France has 1,7 in 2010 and 0,2 in 2013.
                        The state budget of France is in short supply since 1981. We ....
                      3. Demetry
                        Demetry 31 October 2014 19: 03
                        +1
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        I mean, our current economy demonstrates much greater resistance to external factors than it was 10 years ago.

                        Well, that’s right. Over these 10 years, they have gained stability due to all the same external factors (money, technology, machines, etc.) and now we spit on these factors. Well, let's wait until the positive grain runs out. I've bought matches kerosene soap. I am not afraid of nuclear war ....))))))
                        Another question is why the hell to strive for it ??? )))))

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        In 2014, if anything, we entered into a direct confrontation with the West, sanctions were imposed on us, the usual trade turnover was violated to a certain extent. Not the highest price

                        So I already asked, why on earth did we need this? What, rich and stable we can not or do not want? )))

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Where from? They have an economically active population below 30 million and a high unemployment rate

                        Well, I wrote a few tens of millions))). And their unemployment rate is normal. I think we have no lower. It’s just that we don’t have much sense in fixing ourselves unemployed. The allowance is a penny, but problems can be. They have the opposite. So I don’t think that their unemployment is more than ours ...
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        France’s foreign trade balance is negative, i.e. they buy more than they sell. The Russian Federation has a positive one.

                        I don’t know ... our roads are clogged with French cars too. The wine departments are half French. Expensive things from France. They mainly have only oil and gas from ours. Well, maybe negative, I don’t know.
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        The national debt of the Russian Federation is invisible, of France - at 100% of GDP.

                        That doesn't mean much. It’s necessary to look at some other debt balance. France is a top class borrower. so it’s not sloppy. Well, we have corporate debt in the region of $ 700 billion. And the guarantor for them is the state. So ... And the rating is very low at the same time.

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        The GDP growth rate in the Russian Federation ranged from 4,3% in 2010 and decreased to 1,3% in 2013. France has 1,7 in 2010 and 0,2 in 2013.


                        Do not forget that France has a developed economy. They had their 10% growth 50 years ago. That we now need to have 10% growth in order to develop. And in the 14th year, at best, there will be ZERO. And you yourself understand where our growth comes from .... oil mother)))

                        --------------

                        That we went into the wilds. If you want to answer, and let's end with that)))
                      4. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 November 2014 07: 10
                        +1
                        Quote: Demetry
                        Well, that’s right. Over these 10 years, they have gained stability due to all the same external factors (money, technology, machines, etc.) and now we spit on these factors. Well, let's wait until the positive grain runs out.

                        And why would he run dry? :))) Sanctions, in general, are not comprehensive, for a number of positions you can reorient to China itself. Moreover - the process of import substitution (in part of the same Ukraine) is frankly at hand for us.
                        Quote: Demetry
                        So I already asked, why on earth did we need this? What, rich and stable we can not or do not want?

                        Well, Ukraine just could not be surrendered. Geopolitics.
                        Quote: Demetry
                        Well, I wrote a few tens of millions)))

                        Yeah, but the words "several dozen" usually mean tens of forty-seventy :)))
                        Quote: Demetry
                        And their unemployment rate is normal. I think we have no lower

                        10,5% they have unemployment. We have about 5%.
                        Quote: Demetry
                        I don’t know ... our roads are clogged with French cars too.

                        Yeah. Here's just one question - how many of these cars are produced in France? :)))) For example, the same Moscow Avtoframos makes over 160 thousand cars of the brands Logan, Sandero, Fluence and Duster and all sorts of other such brands a year.
                        Quote: Demetry
                        The wine departments are half French.

                        Well, yes :)))) But where are these wines and cognacs poured? And from what? You see, in almost every self-respecting liquor store, you'll see Hennessy. But did you know that ALL the vineyards of this cognac house are hardly capable of providing such a representation in at least one millionaire city?
                        Quote: Demetry
                        Expensive things from France.

                        Show me one. Salons, boutiques sell Chinese items under the French label. No fake, God forbid! Just the vast majority of French firms prefer to order tailoring to Asians.
                        In general, there is a huge difference between goods under the French brand and goods manufactured in France :)))
                        Quote: Demetry
                        Well, maybe negative, I don’t know.

                        Negative
                        Quote: Demetry
                        That doesn't mean much.

                        This means a lot :))
                      5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 November 2014 08: 13
                        +1
                        Quote: Demetry
                        France is a top class borrower. so it’s not sloppy. Well, we have corporate debt in the region of 700 billion dollars. And the guarantor for them is the state.

                        And let's not compare sour to soft. There is such a thing as public debt. And he has France is 90% of GDP. Moreover, France has no CHANCE to repay this debt - because their budget is scarce and in order to make ends meet France is forced to resort to external borrowing.
                        And now we take the Russian Federation. The public debt of the Russian Federation is insignificant, the budget is surplus. The debt recovery problem simply does not exist.
                        You write about corporate debt. But I definitely do not understand why I should compare the state + corporate debt of the Russian Federation with only the public debt of France. Let’s take then the corporate debt of France. So the French debt:
                        States - 1672 billion (in Russia - 62 billion)
                        Central Bank - 202 billion (in Russia - 16 billion)
                        Commercial banks - 2228 billion (in Russia - 210 billion)
                        Non-financial sector - 986 billion (RF - 284 billion)
                        Direct investments - 429 billion (RF - 156 billion)
                        TOTAL EXTERNAL DEBT
                        France - 5 trillion 517 billion dollars
                        RF - 727 billion dollars

                        Total Debt to GDP Ratio
                        France - 201,5%
                        RF - 34,3%
                        http://worldcrisis.ru/crisis/1578089
                        However, it should be borne in mind that in determining risks, it is not so much the size of the debt that is important as the distribution over the time that the debt is paid off.
                        France has short loans worth 1 trillion 963 billion dollars. Russia - 84 billion dollars :))) (ibid.)
                        Quote: Demetry
                        Do not forget that France has a developed economy.

                        There is such a thing as a sector of the real economy or the real sector of the economy :)))
                        So, if we take the share occupied by industry, agriculture, construction, communications and transport, we will see that for the Russian Federation this is 51,2% of GDP. In France - 29,5% Is this a developed economy?
                        Quote: Demetry
                        And you yourself understand where our growth comes from .... oil mother)))

                        Give up. We have ALL mining industry (oil, gas, ores, gold, etc.) - about 10% of GDP
                        Quote: Demetry
                        That we went into the wilds. If you want to answer, and let's end with that)))

                        As you order. It was nice to talk! hi
                      6. Demetry
                        Demetry 1 November 2014 13: 18
                        0
                        Just one point.

                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Give up. We have ALL mining industry (oil, gas, ores, gold, etc.) - about 10% of GDP

                        10% is gross volume. But if you look not at the revenue side, but by profit, then it will be many times more. Especially if the fate that profit is made up of hard currency and not from what our central bank prints. Those. we may have a thread of "auto ... az" which can also give 10% of GDP. Just the cost of maintaining this ".... az" will be around 11%. With the oil industry, the opposite is true.
                        With an oil price of about $ 100 (which it had for several years) and an approximate cost of $ 30, you yourself understand that 7% of GDP is PROFIT and not INCOME. The truth is not all state. It is necessary to feed friends of oligarchs with billiards))))
                        And nevertheless, all economic "prosperity" is based on this profit.
                        Now, which year they are promoting the unprofitable SSJ-100. So what do you think, for what money does this project exist? What are the thoughts besides the petrobucks .... So sorry. Everyone survives as best he can.

                        We pump oil and sell it. France fashion designs, sews in Vietnam and sells. What bothers you? Only they do it on about the same scale but with the territory of France and a population of 60 million. And we are the territory of Russia and a population of 145 million.
                        Whoever can lives like that. I don’t know how the core of the economy is in France (most likely there are a lot of them) And we have NEFTEGAZ. As soon as this core stops working, the crisis will be no less than the 91st year. Our oil will not end for another 20 years (although during this time production may begin to decline. It seems like it has already begun to decline). So the main danger in the near future is the price of oil ... What will Poghosyans and AvtoVAZ do if they lose their free budget money?
                        Mother Oil is still all ours (((((((((((

                        PS There is also the export of weapons, which looks favorably against the background of the oil economy. But its percentage is small. But this is precisely production and it is not raw materials. The rest is almost gone ...
                      7. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 November 2014 13: 54
                        +2
                        Quote: Demetry
                        10% is the gross volume. But if you look not at the revenue side but at the profit, then it will be many times more

                        In this case, you talked about growth, but this is not profit :)))
                        If we talk about profit, then you are right - although the share of oil and gas in GDP is small, but in the state budget of the Russian Federation - it is extremely substantial.
                        True, to what extent it is completely impossible to say. The revenue side of our budget is a secret.
                        Quote: Demetry
                        And nevertheless, all economic "prosperity" is based on this profit.

                        The fact of the matter is that recently, changes in oil prices do not affect us too much.
    6. Greenwood
      Greenwood 31 October 2014 15: 30
      +2
      And don’t talk. It was necessary to order helicopter carriers from the Japanese. :) Just once, it’s not far to Vladivostok, in half the world you don’t have to drive to the home port.
      1. Demetry
        Demetry 31 October 2014 15: 50
        0
        Well, many ships at the Pacific Fleet were built in the same St. Petersburg))). The same amphibious assault ships of the "Rogov" type were built by Peter and then transferred to the Pacific Fleet. At the same time, tactical teaching is the passage by sea.
  5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 31 October 2014 15: 57
    +3
    The Japanese are building full-fledged light aircraft carriers, with the possibility of basing the F-35 on them in the VTOL version. Their submarines are something with something, very good and formidable warships. And the destroyers are, in essence, "Arliberki" only, as it were, not yet improved. And the lack of strike weapons on the destroyers is a big minus and a big one, but the United States is doing a lot of chemistry with anti-ship missiles that can be placed in the mines of Arlie Berkov, I believe the Japanese will also fall.
    In general, it’s still good that the United States does not transfer the latest missiles to the Japanese (in my opinion, the SM2 Standard is now the most popular) but ... In general, Japan is striving and will become a powerful sea power. I have already written 100 times and will repeat it again - after Izumo, they will begin to build new destroyers-helicopter carriers ... atomic destroyers, thousands of tons of displacement in 65 and with a pair of electromagnetic boilers.
    1. Demetry
      Demetry 31 October 2014 16: 17
      +2
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      And the lack of strike weapons on destroyers is a minus and a big one, only the United States is chemically active in anti-ship missiles that can be placed in the mines of Arly Berkov, I think the Japanese will also drop.

      In in !!! As in that movie: "Trousers turn into elegant shorts" ... And the Japanese themselves have their own RCC. Yes, and the presence of anti-ship missiles for a country like Japan is just a desire, not an opportunity.
      An order will be received from Tokyo, in a year all destroyers will be armed with new anti-ship missiles.
      I always thought that equipping a ship of 10 tons with pipes a.la "Harpoon" or "Uranus" is like having two fingers on the asphalt.
      If she is armed with such full-scale micro-ships

      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 31 October 2014 16: 39
        +1
        Quote: Demetry
        An order will be received from Tokyo, in a year all destroyers will be armed with new anti-ship missiles.

        In general, yes. In a year - unconditionally.
  6. korjik
    korjik 31 October 2014 21: 51
    +3
    REALIZED! DEGREE, MEASURES, DEPTH. The truth before that looked at the "current composition of the Pacific Fleet", and did not see there the ships supporting this closet. Excuse me, the times of colonial wars have sunk into the depths of centuries. This means that the theater of operations is unclear. Is that to threaten the landing of Japan? Or China.
  7. PYC75
    PYC75 31 October 2014 22: 02
    -1
    Yes, let the Tamagotchi warriors armed with a battery, and HALKHINGOOOOOL
  8. zyablik.olga
    zyablik.olga 1 November 2014 06: 43
    +3
    The publication made a double impression, on the one hand everything is folding, but the current qualitative and quantitative composition is not shown. Not a word about the fact that the Japanese Navy and naval aviation are many times superior to our Pacific Fleet. In addition, it is not said about the Japanese Marines being created, for which it is planned to purchase dozens of convertiplanes and armored amphibians in the United States.