Military Review

The concept of development of ekranoplans is proposed.

116
October 24 in Moscow, a meeting of the Expert Council under the State Duma Committee on Industry. Defense industry experts and lawmakers discussed a number of issues related to promising vehicles - ekranoplans. Representatives of the Military Industrial Commission, the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Transport, the Ministry of Industry and Trade, the United Shipbuilding and the United Aircraft Building Corporation, as well as experts from other organizations and departments were involved in the discussion of the issue.


Drawing perspective WIG


State Duma Deputy, First Deputy Chairman of the Industry Committee Vladimir Gutenev, opening the meeting, stressed the importance of the development of transport. Due to the large size of the state and the unsatisfactory state of the transport infrastructure, the development of promising types of transport is important for the development of remote regions: the Arctic, the Far East and Siberia. In addition, the issue of communication with the Crimea requires solving. The deputy noted that a large part of the scientific and experimental base necessary for the development and construction of new ekranoplans has survived to the present. At the same time, however, this base remained unclaimed for several decades.

According to V. Gutenev, the Ministry of Industry and Trade has taken into account the prospects of new vehicles and has developed a draft Concept for the development of civil and military EKR planes, as well as an action plan for its implementation. The draft Concept and its implementation plan has been submitted to the Russian government, which should approve them. The development of new documents should contribute to the commencement of systematic work in the field of ekranoplan construction, combine the efforts of various enterprises, and also attract private investors.

During the meeting of the Expert Council, the representative of the Federal State Unitary Enterprise "Krylov State Research Center" Sergey Ganin revealed some details of the proposed VND Development Concept. It carries out a forecast of the development of the WIG market in the country before the 2020 year, determines their optimal appearance for solving various transport tasks, and also proposes measures of state support for projects aimed at improving production efficiency and improving the competitiveness of finished equipment.

Currently, the world is increasing interest in ekranoplans, which are considered as a promising vehicle that can occupy its niche in commercial freight traffic. One consequence of this interest was the emergence of a corresponding regulatory framework. The United States, China, Japan and other countries are particularly active in this area. In addition, the development and construction of new ekranoplans. For example, South Korea is currently conducting tests of the WSH-500 ground effect vehicle capable of carrying up to 50 passengers. At the moment, this machine, which will soon be put into the series, is the largest representative of its class in the world.

In Russia, the production of WIG is in extremely modest amounts. Vladimir Sokolyansky, head of the TsAGI Moscow complex, believes that the development of domestic ekranoplans is hampered by the lack of the necessary legal framework for the construction and use of such equipment, the rapid aging of existing developments and the strengthening of the position of competitors from foreign countries. In addition, this technique is hindered by a lag in some technical areas, a specific inter-sectoral status and the lack of funding for topics in the framework of aircraft development.

Specialists who participated in the meeting of the Expert Council under the State Duma Committee on Industry, came to the conclusion that it was necessary to create an industrial complex, the task of which would be the development and production of new ekranoplans. It is necessary to form a new industry. Ekranoplanostroeniya should be a specialized, innovative and high-tech industry. When creating a new technology, it is necessary to take into account the economic and military security of the country, as well as to develop with the active support of the state.

It should be noted, the new industry, ekranoplanostroenie, will not be created from scratch. A few decades ago, some developments in the field of this technology were created in our country. In addition, currently several commercial organizations are engaged in the construction of ekranoplans and have achieved some success.

In early October, it became known that in Yakutia, the first prototype of the Burevestnik-24 ground-effect vehicle, made by Sky and Sea LLC, was put into trial operation. This unit is capable of carrying up to 24 passengers with luggage. During testing and trial operation, flights from Yakutsk to Best, Pokrovsk and Sinsk were made and continue to be performed. The Lena River became the “route” for WIG flights. The ekranoplan "Burevestnik-24" will be in trial operation until the spring of next year, when it is expected to begin full-fledged commercial flights. In addition, the construction of the second unit “Burevestnik-24” is being completed, and the authors of the project are working on a new ekranoplane capable of carrying up to a hundred people.

The Petrozavodsk Center for ekranoplanostroeniya, created in the areas of the Avangard shipyard, a few days ago told about the progress of foreign orders. Thus, the construction of ekranoplans for Iran continues. Two Orion-20 machines have already been tested and sent to the customer, the third is being tested. Three more machines of this type are located at different stages of production in the workshops of the EKD center. Various foreign customers, including those from China, show their interest in the development of Petrozavodsk engineers.

Ekranoplans are of particular interest from the point of view of modernization of the transport infrastructure and are able to find their niche in the structure of the transport of goods and passengers. However, this technique cannot yet compete with the existing traditional vehicles. For a full-fledged exit of ekranoplans on routes, it is required to develop the industry and some related directions. Specialists of the Ministry of Industry and Trade have developed a program in accordance with which the development of ekranoplanostroeniya. If the proposed Development Concept is approved by the government, its first results may appear in the next few years.


On the materials of the sites:
http://soyuzmash.ru/
http://vpk.name/
http://itar-tass.com/
http://i-mash.ru/
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  1. rugor
    rugor 30 October 2014 08: 39
    +11
    And I thought by a sinful deed that "all the bridges were burned." I am glad that we are building something at least for export. There is something to develop.
    1. b0bi
      b0bi 30 October 2014 10: 56
      +3
      Pleases, very happy. I have been interested in the topic for a long time. Finally, at the state level, they decided to develop ekranoplanes.
      1. VAF
        VAF 30 October 2014 16: 56
        +7
        Quote: b0bi
        Finally, at the state level, they decided to develop ekranoplanes.


        It is becoming more and more difficult to "saw" and "bite off" ... that's why we got into the "zagashniki", and there ... there are so many THOSE developed that ... just have time to issue "to the mountain" and grab. Grab. wassat
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 30 October 2014 16: 59
          +2
          Why did the ekranoplan draw so high? Does it seem to fly a few meters above the surface?
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 October 2014 17: 33
            +7
            So this is not an ekranoplan, but an ekranolet.
            But in general - I do not believe in ekranoplans.
            1. RusSever
              RusSever 30 October 2014 20: 06
              +3
              Do it right. Especially in civilian ones.
            2. alex86
              alex86 30 October 2014 20: 29
              +1
              Surprised by the brevity of the commentary, previously you reasonably doubted the wisdom of ekranoplanes. I like the idea, but doubts arose - not in the idea, but in the expediency ...
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 31 October 2014 16: 10
                +1
                Quote: alex86
                Surprised at the brevity of the comment.

                Tired of painting in detail the same thing :)))
                1. alex86
                  alex86 31 October 2014 19: 45
                  -1
                  Then let me (perhaps a little less biased):
                  cons - less return on the criterion "own weight / carrying capacity"
                  - the need for excess power when entering the screen
                  - lower speed compared to a traditional aircraft with comparable payload
                  - lower fuel efficiency compared to a traditional aircraft
                  - significantly larger turning radii due to the impossibility of tilting the case (respectively, the need for large vertical tail)
                  pluses - high resistance to sea mines
                  - high absolute load capacity (associated with the effectiveness of such devices in general - the screen effect is greatest at a height of 1/2 wing chord, i.e., if you want to fly above the average wave height in bad weather (even 5 m), a chord of 10 m, the length of the device purely designer estimates of at least 50 m, better than 80 - this is more than Ruslan), i.e. the meaning in such devices is with large sizes, otherwise we fly low, raise a little - and why?
                  - the ability to land on water directly at the landing site
                  - low radar visibility - we fly low and fast (at an altitude of 5 m and a speed of 500 km / h)
                  Who has something to add - welcome, but without emotions, there were many, but not the case. The apparatus has a right to exist, but you need to decide on a niche ...
                  1. tlauicol
                    tlauicol 1 November 2014 05: 59
                    -1
                    huge cost
                    complexity of production and service
                    huge run-up - land-based difficulties
                    ease of detection from air
                    low autonomy
                    training complexity
                  2. alex86
                    alex86 5 November 2014 20: 40
                    0
                    Quote: alex86
                    but without emotions, there were many, but not the case

                    Judging by the minus, it doesn't work without emotion, and most importantly, it doesn't work with arguments. At the same time, I am a passionate supporter of ekranoplanes, but I cannot refute the cons. And I really want them to be, but I don't have enough reasonable arguments, except for show-offs like "we are the coolest". And who is minus - this is not Ukraine, it makes sense to explain your position.
                  3. Manager
                    Manager 5 November 2014 20: 50
                    0
                    Inland waters such as the Caspian are commonplace. But I remember in 1989-1990, tests of our ekranoplanes of the ocean-based gigantic dimensions of a wingspan of 200 m were tested. In the ocean, this is where to turn
                    1. alex86
                      alex86 6 November 2014 15: 12
                      0
                      Quote: Manager
                      wingspan 200 m.

                      For objectivity - the largest ekranoplan "Lun" has a wingspan of 44 m and a larger span is not entirely logical - the more, the less maneuverability.
                  4. Andrey Merdishev
                    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 17: 50
                    0
                    1) Only in comparison with watercraft. Compared to airplanes, the ratio of dead weight to load capacity is better.
                    2) excess power is required only for 1-5 minutes before the formation of the screen, and this is much less than the afterburner power of the aircraft. For comparison: Tu-160 on afterburner "hawala" about 22-25 tons of kerosene per minute. Passenger airliners, when reaching the flight altitude and gaining speed, are also not much more economical than bomb carriers. And this regime does not last for them for 1 minute ...
                    3) this is not a lower speed with comparable load capacity, this is a LOT of greater load with comparable speed.
                    4) About fuel efficiency - what can I say, or you are not in the know, or you intentionally lie.
                    5) I agree about the turning radius, but only partially: the problem is easily solved "in a tank way": you can use a reduction in engine speed from one side. I saw on YouTube footage of small ekranoplanes turning almost standing still :)
                    6) High carrying capacity is now more in demand than small. For small cargoes with high demands on the speed of transportation, perhaps small aviation is in some cases more appropriate. And that is far from all. In some places there are no unpaved airfields ...
                    The rest I agree.
                    And the main trump card of ekranoplanes is the ability to fly at all without building infrastructure, along rivers and other folds of the terrain, for example, to transport imperceptibly / unexpectedly large groups of troops and equipment deep into the enemy's territory, climbing up large rivers, without the need for sluicing for ekranoplanes on dams and dams. And in the same way it is possible, for example, to deliver goods along the Northern Sea Route to the mouth of the Yenisei, then along the Yenisei and Angara to Baikal on ekranoplanes / ekranoplanes, then along the BAM to the Amur and Khabarovsk Territory, and then to Sakhalin along the bridge being designed now and there to Japan by hand submit already, given that the Japanese are independently planning to build a bridge to Sakhalin. This opens thus. a new "silk" trade route from Europe to Southeast Asia and back. And along the way, the regions through which it will pass will develop very quickly. And other rivers can be used in the same way. And to overcome small mountains and other obstacles on ekranolets in an airplane way.
                    The only obstacle now that no one wants to invest in is the lack of a regulatory framework in Russia for the construction and operation of these machines of the future. And the corresponding bureaucratic obstacles.
                    Well, the fact that Nabiullina is now commanding all our banks, and they have been appointed to her post since the beginning of the 90s not in Russia, but in the US Federal Reserve. Therefore, she dances to their music. And they really do not like the development of ekranoplanostroeniya ...
  2. KERTAK
    KERTAK 30 October 2014 08: 45
    +9
    the topic is old, but possibly relevant. The "Caspian monster" has not yet been sawed. There is a place to start development.
    1. Foxmara
      Foxmara 30 October 2014 18: 19
      +1
      In the Far East they say they are already building ..
    2. Revolver
      Revolver 30 October 2014 22: 29
      0
      Quote: KERTAK
      The "Caspian monster" has not yet been sawed.

      Why cut it? Tea is not loot. It stands in the crap, and most likely has already rotted so much that it’s cheaper to slap a new one than restore it. Here's how to allocate the loot for this business, immediately sawmills and ponabegut.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 31 October 2014 10: 19
        0
        actually he drowned 35 years ago
  3. magirus2000
    magirus2000 30 October 2014 08: 52
    +9
    Why not build huge airships? they could immediately carry large volumes of cargo from remote regions. It would have turned out to be a kind of analogue of giant sea container ships.
    1. luiswoo
      luiswoo 30 October 2014 09: 24
      +6
      This question has been asked for years 30-40, if not more ...
    2. Evgeniy667b
      Evgeniy667b 30 October 2014 11: 03
      +1
      Then the thermo plan is better, purely Russian development
    3. Yon_Silent
      Yon_Silent 30 October 2014 18: 11
      +4
      Because the airship requires a very expensive infrastructure for its maintenance. In addition to the understandable costs of building a boathouse (hangar), you also need to load something with it when the airship gives off cargo. It is necessary to constantly replenish the gas volume, since helium seeps (diffuses) through any shell (it is understandable, He2 molecules are very small). It is required to remove the electric charge from the envelope of the arriving device - also a non-trivial task. A mooring team, repair personnel, gas tankers, crane operators, slingers, electricians and doctors are needed ... This is not to mention the fact that piloting an airship, to put it mildly, differs from controlling an airplane - that is, pilots also need to be trained separately, retraining the former pilot will fail . In general, worries and problems are above the roof. It’s easier and cheaper, perhaps, to build a railway line where necessary wink
      1. luiswoo
        luiswoo 31 October 2014 11: 37
        +1
        Well, the thermoplane mentioned above should have less ballast problems. Only in this case, because of the size, it is hard to believe in air container ships. Tons for 20 is possible. And then, with the use of hydrogen, not helium - in the ancient filing of "Science and Life", I saw estimates of the design of a relatively safe cargo, economically justified, hydrogen airship (helium was only in the form of a buffer layer, if I am not mistaken). In fact, in principle, hydrogen is not so terrible, if the same Hinderburg had a shell not based on highly flammable and combustible cellulose (the shell burned like a wick), but from a modern material that does not support combustion, then hydrogen would simply burned out by a torch. The only question is how quickly the airship will flop ...
        1. Andrey Merdishev
          Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 18: 25
          0
          Hydrogen is dangerous not only and not so much as a fire hazard, but as an explosion hazard in a mixture with air. And it oozes through the shell no worse than helium ...
  4. parusnik
    parusnik 30 October 2014 08: 56
    +9
    It is a pity Alekseev did not live up to this day ...
    1. Imigrantt
      Imigrantt 30 October 2014 10: 05
      +11
      That's for sure!! We have a disease in Russia during the life of geniuses, they don’t see it, and after death they lift it to heaven !!! Very good news, God grant this project a wide road !!! drinks
      1. crambol
        crambol 30 October 2014 20: 04
        +1
        The head of TsAGI Sokolyansky believes that the development of domestic ekranoplanes is hindered by:
        -lack of the necessary regulatory framework for the construction and use of such equipment,
        - The rapid aging of existing developments and the strengthening of competitors from foreign countries.
        - lag in some technical areas, specific intersectoral status
        -lack of funding topics in the development of aircraft industry.


        Reasons not to do darkness. Alekseeva you scum no!



        1. Andrey Merdishev
          Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 18: 27
          0
          It is precisely that the reasons are not ideological and technical, but purely organizational ... Especially bureaucratic obstacles.
  5. Prager
    Prager 30 October 2014 09: 06
    +2
    Finally, Alekseev’s case interested someone in modern Russia. but it seemed that he was finally buried due to chronic lack of money and indifference of those in power.
    1. tulaev
      tulaev 30 October 2014 20: 19
      0
      Well, yes, they didn’t bury, they continue to bury ... and the composition of the funeral commission is determined:
      "Representatives of the Military-Industrial Commission, the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Transport, the Ministry of Industry and Trade, the United Shipbuilding and the United Aircraft Corporation were involved in the discussion of the issue ..."
      The best experts in the country in full force gathered! I dealt with 4 of these departments, - there are no people there, alas :( The rest, with whom there were no affairs, thank God, judging by the reviews of acquaintances it is not better ...
      And Petrozavodsk residents feel sorry for them, now they will be taken, of course! After all, people began to earn money, sell something for export and bypass this whole gang, it is a shame to commissions and "united"!
  6. Figvam
    Figvam 30 October 2014 09: 36
    +2
    and what plan to build packs weakly?
    1. tlauicol
      tlauicol 30 October 2014 09: 43
      +5
      and people have dreams of Wunderwaffe. and you can’t convince that a helicopter and an airplane are more useful, cheaper, easier and more necessary for the Air Force and Civil Aviation
      1. bmv04636
        bmv04636 30 October 2014 10: 06
        +2
        Well, how do you say the territory we have is huge and full of rivers, large beyond the Urals, for example Lena, the distances between settlements are huge, the helicopter is expensive, the boat is slow and only in summer. And do not forget about Yakutia and the tundra.
        1. Tu-214R
          Tu-214R 30 October 2014 18: 53
          +1
          Do you think the ekranoplan will be cheaper than a helicopter?
        2. tlauicol
          tlauicol 30 October 2014 19: 58
          +1
          beyond the Urals there is not even 50 km that the device could pass in screen mode - continuous hummocks, rocks, trees, hills. Taiga and tundra is not a table for you, and rivers are not a direct freeway. Mi 26 drags 20 tons of cargo or 150 reindeer herders (almost 70% of the weight) - any ekranoplan of comparable payload will break there in a flat cake, and will cost like a steamer. (The eaglet dragged only 27% of the weight - the same 20 tons) To fly in airplane mode means to eat a lot of fuel and give up most of the cargo, reduce the flight radius - otherwise poor aerodynamics will not allow it. Now look at the settlements and estimate: even the Eaglet took a minute and a half to take off - what are we going to build them bases in the taiga? cut down the forest, straighten the riverbeds? or unload it right in the middle of the swamp?
          A trifle 2-20 is local and is not worth building. Helicopter needed!
      2. Avenich
        Avenich 30 October 2014 10: 26
        +7
        And that someone was going to replace the aircraft with ekranoplanes? Or, for the sake of building ekranoplanes, someone is going to refuse to purchase Boeing? No one speaks of ekranoplanes as a miracle weapon; this vehicle has its own niche and neither aircraft nor ships can occupy it.
      3. Andrey Merdishev
        Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 18: 31
        0
        I will answer both: Airplane and helicopter in the conditions of most of Siberia are almost useless. Therefore, it is impractical to "build in batches", but it seems to you that you can hardly cure saliva incontinence if your opponents have arguments and you do not have them.
  7. Samy
    Samy 30 October 2014 09: 52
    +4
    Quote: Tlauicol
    and people have dreams of Wunderwaffe. and you can’t convince

    Indeed, I don’t understand why it’s impossible to use just flying boats in the same place, in the summer landing on water, in winter on skis or wheels. Moreover, Beriev has analogues. At last this multi-engine, multi-eating monster of limited use ...
    1. bmv04636
      bmv04636 30 October 2014 10: 21
      +6
      the question can be considered from such points of view as profitability + carrying capacity. The ship is more economical and the carrying capacity is much greater than that of an airplane, but there are restrictions in the winter. We don’t swim. Moorings are needed. Fairway is necessary, well, slow. Hydroplane with economy + load capacity problems. But the eco-plan just stands on two elements of economy + load capacity higher than that of an airplane, and speed is greater than that of a ship and there are no seasonal restrictions and shallow water is not a hindrance and it is not necessary to build piers.
      1. saag
        saag 30 October 2014 17: 01
        +1
        Quote: bmv04636
        profitability + carrying capacity higher than that of an airplane,

        Profitability more than an airplane? Which side, for example, is fuel consumption comparable?
        1. erg
          erg 30 October 2014 19: 02
          +2
          Fuel consumption is greater, but the cargo that can be transported at once, too. This means fewer flights, fewer devices, which ultimately gives savings in infrastructure and with large volumes of traffic.
          1. Tu-214R
            Tu-214R 30 October 2014 19: 48
            0
            Here we are already talking about amphibious aircraft. The ekranoplan was created for "flights" over the sea and, in general, for military purposes. Can be used for civilian purposes, but again at sea. Are there any restrictions or there is a minimum flight altitude over land / sea - lower is unacceptable, and higher - what kind of ekranoplan is this then? And who in our time will drive ekranoplanes across the tundra for the sake of reindeer herders?
        2. bmv04636
          bmv04636 1 November 2014 23: 02
          0
          let's compare and make sure that the ekranoplan is more economical than an airplane and this is a fact.
      2. igor.borov775
        igor.borov775 2 November 2014 08: 45
        +1
        Hi. It was this business case that launched the project into effect. And then the time was not very good. And even then there were interdepartmental problems. And now I think the ekranoplan will collapse under the weight of the insoluble problems of these departments. Then it (ekranoplan) was at the junction of interests and now nothing has changed. But there is a niche and has not disappeared anywhere. It is a pity how much time was lost. By the way, the same foreign merchants saw what they did not see with us. An interesting thing in the USSR they tried to create a system of products ahead of time. And there are enough examples. And development restrained production, there wasn’t even that knowledge and opportunities. Only this forced to stop many projects after successful trials. There are a lot of them. And now they are starting to extract them again, but completely different opportunities and starting production costs much more, given the deplorable state of our economic base. Only sanctions really make the liberals look at the country's problems. The other question is they can handle this load.
      3. igor.borov775
        igor.borov775 2 November 2014 09: 13
        0
        Hi. It was this business case that launched the project into effect. And then the time was not very good. And even then there were interdepartmental problems. And now I think the ekranoplan will collapse under the weight of the insoluble problems of these departments. Then they (ekranoplan) were at the intersection of interests, but now nothing has changed. But there is a niche and has not disappeared anywhere. It is a pity how much time was lost. By the way, the same foreign merchants saw what they did not see with us. An interesting thing in the USSR they tried to create a system of products ahead of time. And there are enough examples. And development restrained production, there wasn’t that knowledge and opportunities yet. It only made us stop many projects after successful tests. There are a lot of them. And now they are starting to extract them again, but completely different opportunities and starting production costs much more, given the deplorable state of our economic base. Only sanctions really make the liberals look at the country's problems. The other question is they can handle this burden.
  8. Afinogen
    Afinogen 30 October 2014 09: 53
    +9
    It is necessary to restore combat ekranoplanes. Once we were ahead of the rest.


    1. wk
      wk 30 October 2014 10: 52
      -8
      Quote: Athenogen

      Afinogen


      Today, 09: 53

      ↓ New


      It is necessary to restore combat ekranoplanes. Once we were ahead of the rest.

      and combat airships? ..... combat winged airplanes a dead end branch of development and a waste of money .... you need to focus on building full-fledged aircraft carrier groups, rather than flying in the clouds on winged planes, which by the way they will not reach.
      1. Avenich
        Avenich 30 October 2014 11: 46
        +5
        Combat landing craft "Eaglet" faithfully served the Navy for 20 years. In my opinion, it was put in an eternal parking lot in Khimki. About the possible construction of aircraft carriers there was an article two days ago on the site. The ekranoplan does not provide for movement outside the screen, but the ekranoplan ...
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 30 October 2014 15: 06
        +1
        We need ekranoleta as in the photo Be 2500.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  9. bmv04636
    bmv04636 30 October 2014 10: 03
    +6
    One sent already to Iran, preparing the second
  10. activator
    activator 30 October 2014 10: 21
    +4
    And who knows what about ECIP, I read that the topic is more promising than the ekranoplan, but I did not find any real information.
    1. Evgeniy667b
      Evgeniy667b 30 October 2014 11: 19
      +3
      Bravo! You are the only one who remembered that our esteemed "Uralskiy Nugget" (Yeltsin) had cheated. WIGs of the aircraft scheme can be said at the limit of their capabilities. But the supporting body, which is EKIP, is what you need for any tasks. And now the Americans are in the share, where without them.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Luzhichanin
      Luzhichanin 30 October 2014 13: 11
      +3
      Quote: activator
      And who knows what about ECIP, I read that the topic is more promising than the ekranoplan, but I did not find any real information.


      Today the situation is as follows:
      at one time, the development of this project was in every way inhibited, even though the developers created a private enterprise and, as a result, remained at the prototype stage, I emphasize FLYING on principles that foreigners could not even understand, and at the moment the technology of this project was created in the West a special institute that deals exclusively with these developments.

      on the Internet, there is even an official page on ECIP:
      http://www.ekip-aviation-concern.com/index-r.htm
      1. Luzhichanin
        Luzhichanin 30 October 2014 13: 44
        +1
        more recent information, but things are still said there:
        http://www.ekip-projects.ru/stati/ekip_shukin.pdf

        http://www.ekip.pro/about.shtml

        And most importantly about the crew:
        http://www.ekip.pro/stati/vverh.pdf
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 30 October 2014 16: 20
          0
          You can read the answer why they don’t release it above.
    4. Vadim237
      Vadim237 30 October 2014 16: 18
      +6
      I wrote to the president’s administration about the project’s account in 2011 and sent a letter to the Aviation Industry Department, and from there to TsAGI - Reply Suggestions for the creation of the Ekranet Ekip flying vehicle were repeatedly considered earlier by TsAGI and other aviation industry institutes. The following are excerpts from the Conclusion of the institutes of the aviation industry on the results of the technical analysis of ECIP aircraft, dated 1998. Since then, the inventors of the ECIP have not provided new data on this project, therefore the materials of the Conclusion remain valid. For 20 years, the ideas of the authors of the ECIP project have been repeatedly considered by experts from leading scientific centers of the aviation industry, including TsAGI, TsIAM, LII and VIAM. During these discussions, there was a lack of elaboration of many complex issues related to the unusual design of the aircraft and its power plant, the need for serious comprehensive design and experimental studies confirming the validity of the technical solutions incorporated into the project. Nevertheless, and after 20 years, the authors of the project submit for their examination advertising and exhibition materials, a copy of a newspaper article, petitions of general scientific public organizations to state authorities that do not contain a serious analysis of the project. These documents are mostly declaratively advertising in nature; in particular, they lack information on the layout of the power plant, which is a key element of the ECIP concept, the interaction of its components, operating modes, etc. There are also no materials on the results of bench and flight tests of models of ECIP devices. The project materials do not contain the results of a marketing analysis substantiating real solvent demand and possible sources of financing. It seems completely unreasonable given estimates of the huge potential profits from the sale of these products. Allegations of the development of the fundamentals of a fundamentally new type of aircraft EKIP does not correspond to reality. Calculation performed by TsAGI does not confirm the declared level of aerodynamic and flight technical characteristics of ECIP devices. The flight range of the device will be 2-3 times less than declared and fuel efficiency is much worse than that of existing long-haul and transport aircraft. Along with this, the aircraft does not provide the required flight safety. This is primarily due to the deterioration of the aerodynamic characteristics of the apparatus in the event of a power plant failure and continuous flow flow disturbance, a sharp change in the stability and controllability characteristics in transition modes from the screen effect zone to free flight. There is a requirement for aviation rules of AP 25 to consider the calculated balanced take-off distance in the event of engine failure as an estimate, which casts doubt on the possibility of LA EKIP take-off from short GDPs. In general, the leading institutes of the aviation industry have repeatedly emphasized the need to justify scientific and technical solutions to ensure economic efficiency and safety before the development of design and development work and the creation of ECIP devices. The progress on the creation of the LA EKIP does not comply with the practice of aircraft construction.
      1. activator
        activator 30 October 2014 17: 22
        +2
        Well, this is TsAGI’s opinion, and I would like to know your opinion as far as I understand you in the topic. And I also heard that the Americans were involved in this matter, and those guys have a nose for promising projects.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 30 October 2014 18: 35
          +1
          The project was in an embryonic state, but an idea appeared and worked on it so that they would get one thing, but it would turn out completely different, and so they began to search for means to fulfill their fantasies and further research, the Americans didn’t achieve anything on this subject either and closed this topic.
          1. EDELVEISS
            EDELVEISS 31 October 2014 00: 57
            0
            There is some kind of assembly secret. In the 90s, through third hands, we got one working copy, began to study, disassembled and then assembled ... So after assembling them, the "screen" effect was lost - they, accordingly, went nuts ...
            P / S is not a bike, this is a reliable case told by "Alekseevtsy" back in 1995
        2. Luzhichanin
          Luzhichanin 30 October 2014 18: 46
          0
          Quote: activator
          Well this is the opinion of TsAGI

          Quite right, the opinion of TsAGI, in general, do everything to "fly" the jets and airbuses.
          and here is why TsAGI denies the company a test question, a big question ...
          but Western companies please.
      2. Glenn witcher
        30 October 2014 18: 13
        0
        It seems to me that the project was intended solely to attract investments. If we recall the fate of SAZ and its leadership, this is not at all surprising.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  11. valersvet
    valersvet 30 October 2014 10: 31
    +5
    uniqueness: it flies above the surface of the water (height 2-3 meters)
    opportunity: invisible (for air defense) delivery of the "parcel" to the addressee of the "partner"

    worthy machine, I am "FOR"
  12. bmv04636
    bmv04636 30 October 2014 10: 50
    +2
    For Siberia with its rivers Ob, Yenisei, Lena and Amur, the very thing is not to forget about Yakutia and the tundra.
  13. sergant89
    sergant89 30 October 2014 11: 10
    +9
    He wrote more than once that while living in Dagestan as teenagers and all day disappearing in the Caspian Sea, we often saw flying ekranoplanes in 2-3 km from the coast, we didn’t know such a word and called them seaplanes, and something huge flew several times in the distance as he later learned it was a Caspian monster.
  14. ODERVIT
    ODERVIT 30 October 2014 11: 28
    +2
    It is a pity that so much time has been lost in the development of such a promising transport. There was a time when we were "ahead of the whole planet". But it's still good news. For our country, given the scale, an important mode of transport. It requires the construction of an isodromous network, it differs in its carrying capacity, but by definition it cannot be compared with aviation technology in terms of solving problems. Common, of course, is the use of aircraft engines. But the use of an aerodynamic surface screen is very beneficial, because it is any type - earth, water, snow ...
    1. Vita_vko
      Vita_vko 30 October 2014 12: 02
      +1
      But for several years they wrote and showed that this is one of the most promising Russian developments forgotten undeservedly. About the same fate was with the MiG-31. And while the initiative groups did not make their way to the State Duma, they failed to break the gap for promising research in the government. The question then is why are government bureaucrats needed, who, instead of searching and introducing new concepts and ideas, are putting up all kinds of barriers? And so in all areas, from the training of engineering personnel to the RAS, which has become the main brake on Russian science.
  15. bionik
    bionik 30 October 2014 12: 17
    +1
    In the USSR, Robert Bartini and Rostislav Alekseev stood at the origins of the development and creation of ekranoplans.
  16. asiat_61
    asiat_61 30 October 2014 12: 25
    +1
    The fact is that there are too many officials. In Perm, a unique aircraft engine has been developed in terms of economy, there is no equal in noise and it was necessary $ 7ml to complete the tests. As always, officials are in front of a dashing horse.
  17. jayich
    jayich 30 October 2014 12: 36
    +6
    It would be better to remember this bird. And given what an asshole with the aircraft industry, then, as they say, "we do not know how to walk, we will run" if EKIP really turns the aviation market upside down, it must be put on stream at all aircraft manufacturing plants engaged in civil aircraft construction, according to the developers, they can design and build a car with a carrying capacity of up to 250 tons, and given that this thing is without an airfield and can land on any relatively flat area it needs to be long, it turns out the best transport ship for both the North and Siberia, and by the way, it can walk on the screen.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 30 October 2014 16: 21
      0
      The answer why they did not start this project is read above.
    2. total commander
      total commander 31 October 2014 00: 15
      0
      In the video, he is very unstable in flight (a smaller model), trying to somersault. And if some 250 tons are tumbling ...
  18. Big Electric Cat
    Big Electric Cat 30 October 2014 13: 28
    +2
    The article is another topic cut.
    Ekranoplanes do not fly above 5 meters above the working surface (water or land).
    It is especially "pleasing" to see the perspective (illustration).
    1. Evgeniy667b
      Evgeniy667b 30 October 2014 16: 32
      +1
      Where did you get such nonsense? There is the concept of WIG and WIG. And the essence of the difference between them is at what stages they use the screen effect. Judging at the household level, yes all versions of Hoverwing have a typical ekranoplan, due to the small scale of the PVC wing, it does not fly above 3 meters, whereas the good old ESKA-! He could climb 100 meters, but he doesn’t need to go higher, since he is classified as a small vessel. A simple hang glider without a motor is the same ekranolet. He flew on the screen until he was tired.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  19. Cat man null
    Cat man null 30 October 2014 13: 44
    +4
    That's it ... quote:

    "The ekranoplan is tied to the" screen "- the flight height of projects 904 and 903 was no more than 5 m, which imposes severe weather restrictions and requires strengthening the hull.

    As a result, the weight return of the 903 project is 36%, and the comparable weight of the Tu-160 is 60%.

    The idea that the ekranoplane is a ship, not an airplane, and they can be built cheaply at the GCC, is also vicious. They were built at the GCC, but all components came from the aviation industry. The result was "porridge from an ax." As a result, at the cost of construction and operation, one 903 project was equal to one Tu-160."

    Original here: http://nvo.ng.ru/forces/2014-10-24/8_flot.html

    And why would such a miracle seem?
    1. bmv04636
      bmv04636 30 October 2014 14: 21
      0
      Why, why look at our open spaces beyond the Urals. Siberia, its rivers are navigable only in the summer (and unfortunately I remember one dry summer, the fairway was shallowed) then the cargo delivered MI-26 is not cheap. A passenger connection in the summer is a good river, and in the winter and in the fall. And do not forget about the tundra.
  20. Makarov
    Makarov 30 October 2014 14: 34
    0
    Everything is fine .... it is not clear why on the sketch RA (Russian Army?!, Th forgot the Cyrillic alphabet?
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 30 October 2014 17: 07
      0
      Quote: Makarov
      it is unclear why on the sketch RA


      it is from Russian Aircraft- Russian aircraft, so all our planes and helicopters on their international registration number plate carry a combination of these 2 Latin letters RA.
      The number is written as RA -.... followed by the corresponding numbers:



      on this IL-96, such signs are visible on the tail fin and on the left wing.
  21. Urri
    Urri 30 October 2014 15: 10
    0
    Quote: Imigrantt
    We have a disease in Russia during the life of geniuses, they don’t see it, and after death they lift it to heaven !!!


    Not only in Russia.

    "Most often, not the heads are crowned with a laurel wreath, but the skulls remaining from them" (Machiavelli.

    Alekseev was a great man. But the USSR was already rotting, the infection of commercialism had already hit the ministries and the Academy of Sciences. The constructor from God is usually not a businessman, this combination is very rare. Great designers must be protected, it is a pity that Ukrainians do not understand this.
  22. Urri
    Urri 30 October 2014 15: 14
    +2
    Quote: Cat Man Null
    As a result, in terms of the cost of construction and operation, one project 903 was equal to one Tu-160. "


    That is exactly what killed Alekseev. Juggling numbers. Only the construction of the ship in the calculation.

    And the cost of airfields and infrastructure for the TU-160, who will take into account?
    It is then orders of magnitude larger. And the ekranoplan went into the port and everyone is fine.
  23. wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 30 October 2014 16: 50
    +1
    A few decades ago, some developments in the field of this technology were created in our country.
    (quote)

    Yeah. The combat ekranoplan "Lun" and the transport "Eaglet" put into service, one might say, put into mass production, are these "some developments" or what?
    Then show something similar or better that created the USA, China, Japan and other countries, which are mentioned in the article.

    Then let us compare who had "some of the developments" or have had, and who had something more serious.
    The filthy bureaucrats of the KB im. Rostislav Alekseev, and today those who have been grazing at the trough since those times, probably also say that we "had only a few developments."
    1. ism_ek
      ism_ek 31 October 2014 00: 26
      0
      Quote: wanderer_032
      The filthy bureaucrats of the Design Bureau named after Rostislav Alekseev,

      It still exists. http://www.ckbspk.ru/
  24. EDELVEISS
    EDELVEISS 30 October 2014 17: 04
    +1
    Okay. what remained of the Alekseev KB, thanks to the efforts of his students. And after all "Lun" and "Eaglet" there are only the tip of the iceberg. Good luck to the designers of the unique design bureau !!!!
  25. viruvalge412ee
    viruvalge412ee 30 October 2014 18: 29
    0
    Huge monsters need 1-2 pieces on the water surface to destroy aircraft-bearing mattresses and for sale to Arabs maybe (but with keeping secrets). In other versions, there are a lot of small ekranoplanchik-destroyers!
  26. activator
    activator 30 October 2014 18: 58
    0
    And if he has an open mind to figure out the speed he has about 450 km from memory, then for a plane slowly for ships there is no one to quickly cover it. So that radars don’t take it well, as I doubt surface ships, because radars see. Well, making a radar that the ekranoplan will see it’s a difficult task and if it doesn’t become easy prey for aviation without covering it, it’s not as I understand it. By survivability, it’s more like an airplane than a ship, plus engines for thermal guidance systems.
    1. Helizer
      Helizer 30 October 2014 23: 06
      0
      Quote: activator
      would he become without cover easy prey for aviation

      For thermal guidance systems, the ekranoplan has a cloud of spray behind it. Aviation needs to be detected, overtaken, go into the forehead at low altitude, launch rockets with thermal guidance systems and pray that it does not change course.

      It will definitely not be an "easy" prey.
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 1 November 2014 06: 55
        +1
        Neither spray nor snow nor dust mask boats and equipment from the IKGSN. and a missile with a radar homing system will hit an ekranoplane 100 kilometers away. The target is 50-70m long and 15-20m high, slow and not maneuverable. or do you seriously think that a five-story building maneuvering in two planes with a turning radius in the screen mode of 1.5-2 kilometers will make a fighter in an air battle? detect such a target from the air - easy work! missiles it’s a pity - it’s easier to burn from a cannon or from Hellfire
        1. Helizer
          Helizer 1 November 2014 12: 59
          -1
          How will your plane detect a low-flying target in the background of water? And from what distance?

          And where does the fighter in the air battle?

          Hellfire is fired at by ground technology, barely crawling or generally motionless.

          The ekranoplan will make the aircraft carrier anti-ship missiles in naval combat.
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 1 November 2014 13: 50
            +1
            hellfire and speedboat shoot

            But how do you think planes intercept anti-ship missiles or other low-flying targets? compare the speed and size (Lun 20 meters high - many anti-ship missiles fly lower) - what is the inconspicuous thing - a seven-story building flies

            but about aerial combat - this is to the fact that the ekranoplan has no maneuverability - do not be mistaken. huge turning radius (impossibility of a large (plane) roll - it will catch water). and about 70m of Orlenka U-turn - it’s maneuvers on the water, Airbus has a small radius at taxiing
            1. Helizer
              Helizer 1 November 2014 18: 10
              -1
              Supersonic anti-ship missiles do not intercept aircraft.

              Sometimes, with luck, planes may try subsonic cruise missiles.
              1. tlauicol
                tlauicol 1 November 2014 19: 16
                +1
                What does supersonic have to do with it? Does EP reach supersonic? or at least the speed of the slowest of RCC? it's a very easy target
                1. Helizer
                  Helizer 1 November 2014 19: 51
                  0
                  What does the plane have to do with it? The EP will destroy the aircraft carrier before it detects it and manages to lift the aircraft.

                  And why is it so alarmed in the USA because of the Soviet EP if one fighter kills them all?
                  1. tlauicol
                    tlauicol 2 November 2014 06: 08
                    +1
                    AWACS aircraft carrier will detect the EP in a few hours of flight EP to the aircraft carrier.

                    only our newspaper men and REN-TV were alarmed in their wet dreams of miracle weapons

                    http://www.sinor.ru/~bukren/aviano_3.htm почитайте о возможностях АУГ
                    1. Helizer
                      Helizer 2 November 2014 10: 21
                      0
                      The aircraft carrier’s AWAC will not detect a low-flying EP even 15 minutes before the collision, since it will be beyond the radar horizon line, but it will launch rockets earlier.
                      1. tlauicol
                        tlauicol 2 November 2014 10: 43
                        +1
                        Aviation AWACS - what do you need to chew every word? Have you read the link?
                      2. Andrey Merdishev
                        Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 20: 31
                        0
                        And what, someone took and forbade to arm EP with ground-to-air missiles ??? The height of the hull allows, especially since the aircraft carrier will meet him with airplanes on the opposite course, so that the missiles can be tilted, as on EP Lun.
                        And yes, it is also possible to accompany it, even old Su-27s can do it, they have a minimum speed of 200 km / h or so, due to the possibility of a large angle of attack without breaking into a tailspin. Yes, your sky planes cannot do this :) but these are your flying targets, not ours ...
                        And DLRO - also not eternal, easily shot down by radar and conventional missiles, again - the goal. Moreover, it is not necessary to shoot them down either; you can process them with Krasukha. Which (electronic part) on board also fits easily.
                        And if this topic for you behind the Big Puddle does not cause such concern, why did the Americans themselves try to build this and why did you personally write so many comments here ??? Do not pay attention then and you will be happy! ...
  27. deoman
    deoman 30 October 2014 19: 15
    0
    Every year they raise this topic, if not more often, every year industrialists say that it is necessary to rebuild. Well, the words only end the case. Guys! Build soon!
    But all the same, can it be better to put PAK-FA on the conveyor? First, invest more money in it. And then now, and here and there, and to the end, to bring both of them, there will not be enough money.
    1. Andrey Merdishev
      Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 20: 32
      0
      If there are no bureaucratic obstacles, businessmen will quickly master this topic. Do not worry!
  28. Technical engineer
    Technical engineer 30 October 2014 19: 28
    0
    Type for commercial purposes? Not a bad deal. But we still need the combat ekranoplan. Including and in the Black Sea
    1. Andrey Merdishev
      Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 20: 38
      0
      Once again, businessmen themselves are able, in the absence of bureaucratic obstacles, to finance this topic. Regardless of military use. That it doesn’t also cancel its need - it’s necessary to build for the military and finally allow the private guys. But so far we have ekranoplanes - outlawed. That is the whole problem.
  29. NEXUS
    NEXUS 30 October 2014 19: 57
    0
    Quote: Imigrantt
    That's for sure!! We have a disease in Russia during the life of geniuses, they don’t see it, and after death they lift it to heaven !!! Very good news, God grant this project a wide road !!! drinks
    And this is no longer just fabulous fuss in order to surprise the world ... it has become a necessity ... and while we are leading in that matter, we must begin to remember everything and go on the edge ... China, Korea, the United States ... all these serious players they are seriously dealing with the issue ... This is a prospect both in civilian cargo transportation and in military affairs.
    1. tulaev
      tulaev 30 October 2014 20: 33
      -1
      It’s scary to even imagine how far Poghosyan will go if he pushes this topic for himself ... America will definitely not catch up ... There will be no separation if the economy in the country is not taken up and thieves are not dispersed! And the prospect of ekranoplanes is really huge, especially in a situation where there will be clearly not enough money for infrastructure (piers, airfields). That is why it is intimidating what an undertaking looks like. And it looks like an attempt to "pull" the topic into some kind of "united corporation", what will happen to the topic after that?
      In general, I have the feeling that the United States is using a strategy of "self-destruction" to fight us - as soon as a promising and necessary topic for the country appears, it is quickly "spud" with the help of our well-managed bureaucratic apparatus and officials. After that, the topic disappears as it was ...
  30. Ze Kot
    Ze Kot 30 October 2014 22: 35
    0
    Quote: Pilat2009
    Why did the ekranoplan draw so high? Does it seem to fly a few meters above the surface?


    So I thought. He also uses the physical principles of "air cushion", the screen.

    And such a plane, as in the figure, is not at all sure what will fly.
    1. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 2 November 2014 09: 22
      0
      Yes, there is another interesting detail on the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation. There is a combat platform. It’s called BORA. Ask how they behave and what kind of system it is that so interests the enemies too ahead of time. But they remained only in duplicate.
      1. Andrey Merdishev
        Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 20: 46
        0
        Bora is the previous step. Hovercraft. In a number of details the ekranoplan is much inferior. Although it can move where the terrain does not allow you to move at the speed necessary for the screen effect.
    2. Andrey Merdishev
      Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 20: 43
      0
      Because it is an ekranolet, not an ekranoplan. Eaglet could climb a kilometer or more. Although he needs it only to avoid obstacles. Dams, bridges, watersheds. For a flight from one river to another at last.
  31. Throw
    Throw 4 November 2014 02: 29
    0
    Article by nothing. Where is that concept? Could be limited to just a headline.
  32. attuda
    attuda 20 November 2014 17: 03
    0
    Yes Yes! These are very cool stuff!
    Alekseev was a genius, his second effect is an idea for centuries! ...
    It’s wonderful that they revived.
    My dream is that this thing could swim under water ...
    And her hydrogen engine
    such would be the city of the future ...
    Flying, floating, underwater ... Limitless
  33. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 18: 12
    0
    Quote: Tlauicol
    huge cost
    complexity of production and service
    huge run-up - land-based difficulties
    ease of detection from air
    low autonomy
    training complexity

    This is ALL a lie from and to.
    In the production of ekranoplanes cheaper and easier than airplanes 1,5-2 times;
    For maintenance, no infrastructures are needed; there is enough berth and the availability of technicians on the shore, and these machines are much superior to aviation in terms of reliability and survivability, there were cases when they came without any rear fuselage for 250 km on some nose engines; repair in the absence of accidents is practically not required, and migrating birds entering the engines are now easily blocked by gratings and fan chippers; in addition, with such a danger, you can create loud sounds that frighten birds;
    The run is carried out by water; based on land say ??? What for??? You can move along rivers and their valleys to almost anywhere in Russia, but you can base yourself on water and / or go to the beaches; and no one has abolished the possibility of amphibious layout;
    Detect ekranoplan moving along rivers, i.e. in the folds of the terrain, you can ONLY a visual way from space; on the sea, he moves below the radio horizon. And in any case, less noticeable (on the background of the earth) than any aircraft, except micro-copters :)
    Autonomy is much greater than that of an airplane, due to high fuel efficiency and the ability to land on water, including for additional maintenance;
    Personnel - yes, they aren’t available now, but it’s easier to prepare them than aviation.
    That's just interesting, are you lying intentionally? or is it a consequence of your total illiteracy? The first option is easier to believe, but then who pays you for it? However, this is obvious.
  34. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 18: 15
    0
    Quote: alex86
    Quote: Manager
    wingspan 200 m.

    For objectivity - the largest ekranoplan "Lun" has a wingspan of 44 m and a larger span is not entirely logical - the more, the less maneuverability.

    KM was more than Lun by maximum take-off weight by about 2 times. And he could carry much more cargo, given the aerodynamics of Lun.
  35. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 18: 17
    0
    Quote: KERTAK
    the topic is old, but possibly relevant. The "Caspian monster" has not yet been sawed. There is a place to start development.

    Unfortunately, the KM sank due to the error of the pilot, yesterday's aviator, who was not fully retrained under EP.
  36. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 18: 21
    0
    Quote: Jon_ Quiet
    Because the airship requires a very expensive infrastructure for its maintenance. In addition to the understandable costs of building a boathouse (hangar), you also need to load something with it when the airship gives off cargo. It is necessary to constantly replenish the gas volume, since helium seeps (diffuses) through any shell (it is understandable, He2 molecules are very small). It is required to remove the electric charge from the envelope of the arriving device - also a non-trivial task. A mooring team, repair personnel, gas tankers, crane operators, slingers, electricians and doctors are needed ... This is not to mention the fact that piloting an airship, to put it mildly, differs from controlling an airplane - that is, pilots also need to be trained separately, retraining the former pilot will fail . In general, worries and problems are above the roof. It’s easier and cheaper, perhaps, to build a railway line where necessary wink

    Helium does not form molecules at all :) And because of this, it oozes even faster. And most importantly - you can fly on an airship more or less controllably only in calm weather :) I agree otherwise.
  37. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 18: 34
    0
    Quote: Samy
    Quote: Tlauicol
    and people have dreams of Wunderwaffe. and you can’t convince

    Indeed, I don’t understand why it’s impossible to use just flying boats in the same place, in the summer landing on water, in winter on skis or wheels. Moreover, Beriev has analogues. At last this multi-engine, multi-eating monster of limited use ...

    He eats just many times less than an airplane and ten times less than a helicopter, while transporting the same or much larger cargo a little slower than the first and much faster than the second. Moreover, the infrastructure is not needed at all. Neither airfields nor landing sites.
  38. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 18: 35
    0
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    So this is not an ekranoplan, but an ekranolet.
    But in general - I do not believe in ekranoplans.

    Believe it or not, this is a religious concept. And here the conversation is purely technical.
  39. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 18: 52
    0
    Quote: Tlauicol
    beyond the Urals there is not even 50 km that the device could pass in screen mode - continuous hummocks, rocks, trees, hills. Taiga and tundra is not a table for you, and rivers are not a direct freeway. Mi 26 drags 20 tons of cargo or 150 reindeer herders (almost 70% of the weight) - any ekranoplan of comparable payload will break there in a flat cake, and will cost like a steamer. (The eaglet dragged only 27% of the weight - the same 20 tons) To fly in airplane mode means to eat a lot of fuel and give up most of the cargo, reduce the flight radius - otherwise poor aerodynamics will not allow it. Now look at the settlements and estimate: even the Eaglet took a minute and a half to take off - what are we going to build them bases in the taiga? cut down the forest, straighten the riverbeds? or unload it right in the middle of the swamp?
    A trifle 2-20 is local and is not worth building. Helicopter needed!

    In winter, ice hummocks and ice drifts on the drum, rocks and trees, it can fly around, on the hills it has nothing to do, people very rarely live there and can always go down to the river. The rivers in Siberia are huge and long, can serve as natural routes. Eaglet was only an experimental machine and it was never fully loaded, although it was already in service as a military transport and landing vehicle. A steamer is cheaper than an airplane and much :) WIG is VERY tenacious, it needs to fly in an airplane only if there are obstacles. Its radius is much larger than the plane :) Aerodynamics are not miserable, but special :) And what can he do in Siberia, believe me, there will be :) at least carry people between settlements. Each business has its own tool. They are being built with cranes, the forest is felled with skidders, and it is generally undesirable to straighten river channels. And you can unload it anywhere. Trifle 2-20 local in an experimental mode near Yakutsk and Irkutsk is already carried and commercially very successfully.
  40. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 19: 01
    0
    Quote: Tu-214P
    Here we are already talking about amphibious aircraft. The ekranoplan was created for "flights" over the sea and, in general, for military purposes. Can be used for civilian purposes, but again at sea. Are there any restrictions or there is a minimum flight altitude over land / sea - lower is unacceptable, and higher - what kind of ekranoplan is this then? And who in our time will drive ekranoplanes across the tundra for the sake of reindeer herders?

    WIG created for flying over any flat surface, not only for the sea. And not just for the military. And for reindeer herders, a helicopter in fact is much more expensive, because fuel efficiency is much worse and flies much closer. The ekranoplan for the tundra is generally an ideal transport, especially in the winter, which is there 9-10 months a year.
  41. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 19: 04
    0
    Quote: attuda
    Yes Yes! These are very cool stuff!
    Alekseev was a genius, his second effect is an idea for centuries! ...
    It’s wonderful that they revived.
    My dream is that this thing could swim under water ...
    And her hydrogen engine
    such would be the city of the future ...
    Flying, floating, underwater ... Limitless

    Panic, panic ... Hototsho laughs the one who laughs last.
  42. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 19: 06
    0
    Quote: Lance
    Article by nothing. Where is that concept? Could be limited to just a headline.

    Confirm your words with evidence. Otherwise it is idle talk (about nothing).
  43. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 19: 11
    0
    Quote: alex86
    Quote: alex86
    but without emotions, there were many, but not the case

    Judging by the minus, it doesn't work without emotion, and most importantly, it doesn't work with arguments. At the same time, I am a passionate supporter of ekranoplanes, but I cannot refute the cons. And I really want them to be, but I don't have enough reasonable arguments, except for show-offs like "we are the coolest". And who is minus - this is not Ukraine, it makes sense to explain your position.

    Well, justify your position, because we do not have Ukraine, many arguments have been given here, and you just spray everything with saliva ... And yes, you are a passionate supporter of ekranoplanes of only foreign production, did I understand correctly? ..
  44. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 19: 25
    0
    Quote: wk
    Quote: Athenogen

    Afinogen


    Today, 09: 53

    ↓ New

    It is necessary to restore combat ekranoplanes. Once we were ahead of the rest.

    and combat airships? ..... combat winged airplanes a dead end branch of development and a waste of money .... you need to focus on building full-fledged aircraft carrier groups, rather than flying in the clouds on winged planes, which by the way they will not reach.

    If it was a dead end branch, the Americans would not have paid Yeltsin to cover it, and Eaglet and Lun drank it to the needles. And if it were a dead end branch, they themselves would not try now to build their amphibious mega-screen Pelican. Thank God, they have not really succeeded yet, because the Alekseyevites did not begin to share the drawings :) But they didn’t manage to get it on their own :) The aircraft carrier group — this is now a dead end branch — 1 rocket or torpedo, the aircraft carrier gives a roll and that’s all, and then it’s useless to continue fighting. And the planes will fall into the water :) In our conditions, it is easier to teach combat aircraft to land on the ground or asphalt.
  45. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 19: 30
    0
    Quote: Avenich
    Combat landing craft "Eaglet" faithfully served the Navy for 20 years. In my opinion, it was put in an eternal parking lot in Khimki. About the possible construction of aircraft carriers there was an article two days ago on the site. The ekranoplan does not provide for movement outside the screen, but the ekranoplan ...

    There were several dozen pieces of eaglets. Eltsin cut them into needles for 150 thousand dollars in the form of a grant from the United States. Which immediately drank.
  46. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 19: 43
    0
    Quote: ODERVIT
    It is a pity that so much time has been lost in the development of such a promising transport. There was a time when we were "ahead of the whole planet". But it's still good news. For our country, given the scale, an important mode of transport. It requires the construction of an isodromous network, it differs in its carrying capacity, but by definition it cannot be compared with aviation technology in terms of solving problems. Common, of course, is the use of aircraft engines. But the use of an aerodynamic surface screen is very beneficial, because it is any type - earth, water, snow ...

    Just the same, he does not require the construction of any airfield networks. All you need is a beach to go ashore. Or a mooring. Nothing more to build for him.
  47. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 19: 53
    0
    Quote: asiat_61
    The fact is that there are too many officials. In Perm, a unique aircraft engine has been developed in terms of economy, there is no equal in noise and it was necessary $ 7ml to complete the tests. As always, officials are in front of a dashing horse.

    What kind of engine? Interesting! With rare-earth rhenium, metal without which space and hypersound are impossible, the same story. The technology for industrial production from the world's only deposit in the Kuril Islands (this is a volcano that spews this material as a gas) was developed by an initiative group of scientists, at the end of the project only 800 thousand dollars are needed and the main barriers are bureaucratic, it seems that the bureaucrats erecting them pay abroad. And while these barriers exist, no one in his mind will invest a million dollars even in such a promising thing as this rhenium or the same ekranoplan.
  48. Andrey Merdishev
    Andrey Merdishev 18 November 2018 20: 07
    0
    Quote: Cat Man Null
    That's it ... quote:

    "The ekranoplan is tied to the" screen "- the flight height of projects 904 and 903 was no more than 5 m, which imposes severe weather restrictions and requires strengthening the hull.

    As a result, the weight efficiency of the 903 project is 36%, and that of the Tu-160 comparable in weight is 60% .

    The idea that an ekranoplane is a ship, not an airplane, and they can be built cheaply at the GCC is just as vicious. They were built at the shipyard, but all the components came from the aircraft industry. It turned out "porridge from an ax". As a result, in terms of the cost of construction and operation, one project 903 was equal to one Tu-160 . "

    Original here: http://nvo.ng.ru/forces/2014-10-24/8_flot.html

    And why would such a miracle seem?

    Was the whole project torn to one plane? So you carved yourself.
    Have you ever seen waves of 5 meters on the rivers ??? And large sea / ocean waves are the same supporting surface for the screen as any other relatively flat surface, because they have a very large area and the EF simply follows the increase and decrease in the surface level.
    With the strengthening of the hull, high-speed vessels have much greater problems.
    And of course, this is not a plane or a ship, it is necessary to build on a special site that we have, including and from Soviet times.
    And the problem of weight recoil is easily solved by composite materials and an increase in the size of the ES, due to an increase in the height of the screen and, accordingly, seaworthiness, as well as speed and fuel efficiency. At the KM, the calculated weight efficiency was higher than that of the Tu - 160, especially since of those "60%" most or on the cr. at least half is fuel.