Mockups do not fly into space

102
Mockups do not fly into space


Americans for spaceflight have something besides a trampoline. And where is our new generation of ship?

Five years ago, at the International Air Show in Zhukovsky, visitors saw a mock-up of a new-generation Russian spacecraft. How far did its creators progress in project implementation? We were asked to comment on the situation by one of the organizers of our rocket and space industry, the Hero of Socialist Labor, ex-minister Boris BALMONT. This is also interesting because on December 4 the first launch of the newest interplanetary 20-ton American ship Orion was assigned, intended for flights with the crew not only in near-earth orbit, but also to the Moon, Mars, and asteroids.

In Florida, an 700-tonne heavy-duty Delta-4 high-altitude rocket with an 22-storey home has already been installed at the launch site of the Air Force Cosmodrome (Cape Canaveral). It stands inside the 100-meter service tower. From the open side of the tower, three huge rocket boosters are clearly visible, connected to each other in a package scheme.

Now in the remaining month and a half, test checks of all media systems will be conducted. An important feature: the new space-rocket complex has an emergency rescue system (SAS), which was not on the space shuttle. In the event of an accident, the SAS will instantly separate the ship from a rocket at the start or taking off, lead the module with the crew to the side and provide a landing.

To begin with, Orion will complete two orbits around the earth in 4,5 hours. For the flight, an elliptical, strongly elongated orbit was chosen with a maximum distance of thousands of kilometers on 5,8 (15 times the ISS trajectory). The ship for deep space is being tested, and therefore the Orion is sent to the most dangerous Van Allen radiation belts in 4 thousands of kilometers from Earth. It is important to find solutions to protect crews and vehicles from powerful radiation fluxes. By the way, manned Apollo, flying over 40 years ago with astronauts on the moon, only crossed the Van Allen belts. Now, however, the new ship has to pass a more serious radiation exam, having spent much more time in extreme conditions.

Another important task is to check the new thermal protection of the ship. "Orion" before returning to Earth will accelerate to 32 thousands of kilometers per hour.

The ship will enter the dense layers of the earth's atmosphere, taking upon itself the terrible blow of hot plasma (its temperature will reach 2,2 thousands of degrees). Approximately the same is waiting for the ship after the flight to the moon. Designers want to see the viability of "Orion" in this mode of descent in the Earth's atmosphere. After extinguishing the speed, the ship will smoothly descend by parachute and splash down in the Pacific Ocean.

It is also necessary to check the performance of a new computer producing 480 million operations per second. This is 25 times faster than today's computers on the ISS and 4 thousands of times - a great ancestor who worked on Apollo ...

Immediately I recall the recent joke of the Vice-President of the Government of the Russian Federation, Dmitry Rogozin, about the trampoline, in which the Americans will have to throw their crews onto the ISS in the event of failure to cooperate with Roscosmos. As we see, the USA has something besides the trampoline - they are consistently implementing their space program. And where is the Russian spacecraft of a new generation, the layout of which was presented in Zhukovsky at MAX-2009? Maybe, without much publicity, it has already been manufactured in the RSC Energia workshops, has passed ground tests and will soon be launched into space, will compete with Orion? No, our ship is not only not made in a complex flight version - it is not known at all when it will be possible to proceed with its assembly.

“It’s bitter for me to see the growing backlog of Russian cosmonautics,” says Boris Balmont bluntly. - Moreover, we had the opportunity to create a new promising ship, ahead of competitors. Scientific, technical, production potential, experience - we still have all this no matter what. The weakest link is inefficient management of the industry, failure in the organization of work. Infinite coordination, development of programs and development strategies, competitions ... There is a lot of fuss, but this is an appearance of work, and the efficiency is extremely low.

And really! In 2004-2006, work was under way on the Clipper reusable ship project, which the European Space Agency was also interested in at the beginning. Interest dried up, we decided to create an interorbital tug "Parom". And in 2009-m announced a new competition to create a promising ship. The winner was the corporation "Energy". Developed more than a hundred technical assignments, prepared contracts with related companies. Made aerodynamic models: But here is a new turn. Today they say that it would be necessary to make such a ship, which immediately can fly to Mars. And again, coordination, paperwork. As a result, unmanned tests moved from 2015-th to a later date. And there is no certainty that it will be possible to send the ship on the first flight at least in 2018. Especially in today's conditions, when the state’s finances are very tight.

It’s not very clear how this whole mechanism works, Balmont wonders. - The company "Energy" is now subject to the United Rocket and Space Corporation. The general direction of development is determined by Roscosmos. From Roscosmos received specific tasks. And how the money is distributed, for whom the last word - my interlocutors, by no means ordinary workers in the industry, do not understand. Now there are two chiefs at the factories - the president and the general designer, and in the industry two governing bodies. There are many bosses, but little confusion. Manpower leapfrog, heads of enterprises are changing. And reforms, reforms ...

Again, do not avoid comparisons. In the United States, a contract with the Lockheed Martin concern for the development, construction and testing of the Orion ship was signed in 2006. Not everything went smoothly either. Barack Obama in 2010, even offered to abandon the program. Nevertheless, after 8 years, the ship is ready for flight tests.

- Why do private foreign space companies quickly achieve results? - asks Boris Balmont. - Yes, there are much less bureaucratic barriers, highly qualified specialists are involved, the process is skillfully organized and the money is spent rationally. Engineer, entrepreneur, billionaire Ilon Musk took up space exploration and founded SpaceX just 12 years ago. And today his company presented the world with a reusable Dragon (it flies so far in the cargo version for the ISS), as well as two good rockets, and the Falcon 9 has significant competitive advantages over other carriers. At the same time, Mask's costs are many times less than for similar developments in our country, and the timing is generally better not to compare ... For objectivity, I must say that the first space “private traders” began to appear in Russia: “Dauria Aerospace” Sputnix, Selenohod ... It would be good for the state to create a favored mode for such firms. And Roscosmos officials could learn from NASA the organization of large-scale support for private companies. And most importantly: the reforms should not confuse the situation in the industry, but solve the accumulated problems. While this is not visible.

By the way, when in the Soviet Union in 1976, they began to create a super-heavy rocket “Energy” (mass −2,4 thousand tons, it put 100-ton cargo into orbit), more than 1 thousand enterprises joined the work, over 1 million people. All the threads of the project converged in the Interdepartmental Coordinating Council, whose chairman was appointed Boris Balmont.

“Each manager then took upon himself all the responsibility in his own area of ​​work and made decisions within the framework of a common task,” recalls my interlocutor. - There was the strictest personal responsibility. And a thousand enterprises acted as a single mechanism. After 11 years, "Energy" launched into space. I would stress that the costs of its creation were much smaller than the incomparable in power of the current “Angara”, which has been created for more than 20 years ...
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  1. -3
    1 November 2014 08: 12
    For space travel, Americans have something besides a trampoline.
    There is. But already less. Yes
    Private spaceship crashed during test flight
    .
    October 31, 2014 Select date 22:41
    One of the two pilots of the SpaceShipTwo ship, developed by the company of British billionaire eccentric Richard Branson, was killed, the second pilot was taken to hospital
    Moscow. October 31. INTERFAX.RU - The SpaceShipTwo suborbital spacecraft crashed in the United States during summer tests, which caused the death of one of the pilots, said Virgin Galactic on Twitter.

    Another pilot was injured and was taken to hospital.

    During the test flight, SpaceShipTwo "was subjected to unforeseen impacts, resulting in the loss of the craft," a statement posted on the company's official website said. "First of all, we are worried about the condition of the pilots," the message says.

    According to representatives of Virgin Atlantic, as soon as they manage to establish the cause of the disaster, they will immediately publish it.

    The crash occurred in the state of California in the Mojave Desert.

    This is the second accident in the US space industry this week.

    On Wednesday night, the launch of the private Cygnus truck with the Antares rocket from the NASA cosmodrome at the Wallops base in Virginia, USA ended in failure, the rocket exploded in the first seconds after launch. Later, CNN, citing data from the owner of Orbital Sciences, said specialists had to command the self-liquidation of the Antares rocket when they discovered a malfunction at the start.
    1. +46
      1 November 2014 12: 10
      Have you read the article? - an article about serious equipment and not about dives - the question was asked what we have with space - Amer’s accidents do not please me personally, I’m sure, unfortunately, they will conduct investigations, draw conclusions and work further - and what is done specifically with us apart from phrasing
      1. -12
        1 November 2014 12: 26
        Quote: Siberian German
        Have you read the article? - an article about serious equipment and not about dives - the question was asked what we have with space - Amer’s accidents do not please me personally, I’m sure, unfortunately, they will conduct investigations, draw conclusions and work further - and what is done specifically with us apart from phrasing


        I wonder how they will work if their missiles start falling for no apparent reason? The current case with the fall, as far as I understand, is the beginning of a chain of unsuccessful starts after which only the trampoline will remain. And they will make the simplest conclusion - "the Kremlin's hand hit the rocket on the firmament," after which it broke and fell. The next dog will soon tell everyone about this and they will introduce some more sanctions against us.
        1. +19
          1 November 2014 14: 10
          Quote: Geisenberg
          I wonder how they will work if their missiles begin to fall without any apparent reasons? The current case of the fall,

          What are you all about Americans, but about Americans ?!
          They tell you when our flight? hi
          And on the topic?
          I’m certainly an amateur, but I don’t understand our nm Americans, how can I make one ship for flying into orbit, the moon, Mars and asteroids?
          Is it the same as swimming on a catamaran near the beach and in the open sea, or is it swimming in the same waters, but figuratively speaking on a cruiser? ))) lol
          1. +7
            1 November 2014 15: 19
            Quote: ATATA
            I’m certainly an amateur, but I don’t understand our nm Americans, how can I make one ship for flying into orbit, the moon, Mars and asteroids?

            I can assume a modular design. A reserved seat was attached to the remote control module in orbit, a "sleeping bag" was attached to Mars, and so on. I don't see it differently.
            1. +3
              2 November 2014 13: 45
              Absolutely.
              Only the reusable excitable module is "universal". The rest is stackable.
              To the moon with conventional booster blocks
              To asteroids and Mars - with a block with nuclear power propulsion systems and additional manned modules, with the assembly, in fact, of a "big ship" in orbit.
        2. +4
          2 November 2014 14: 01
          The Americans plan to put into orbit up to 20 tons of cargo. How many tons is needed for the Martian module with fuel, products for the crew, air, survival systems, regeneration, etc., did someone count? And what about the weight of the radiation protection? And what did they have left from the lunar program to launch rockets into the near orbit? Or will the cubicle reach?
          1. +6
            2 November 2014 16: 28
            They are developing a new superheavy rocket. And 20t is the Orion ship itself (even 25) (our Union weighs 7t)
            1. +1
              3 November 2014 19: 27
              20 tons, the old Proton can do it. It's not about tonnage. According to the documents, the virtual Saturn-5 lifted 140 tons without a single failure. And an F-1 with 700 tons of thrust is lying around somewhere. To whom are our "friends" pushing this bullshit?
            2. The comment was deleted.
          2. +2
            2 November 2014 23: 21
            that they didn’t have any left from the lunar program to launch rockets into the near orbit

            carriers are built for a specific launch, and not for the future.
            When the program is closed, the snap-in is not stored.
            Resume production - how to start production from scratch. So why build an old model?

            And they are developing it for a specific load.

            Therefore, all dreams about the production of Energia are only dreams.

            And about Kubrick - do not read the yellow sites! (And the yellow press!)
          3. 0
            3 November 2014 21: 01
            Well, in principle, in 250-300 tons, you can meet 2-3 crew members and without landing option.
          4. The comment was deleted.
      2. +18
        1 November 2014 18: 15
        Quote: Siberian German
        the question is asked what we have with space

        Space is bad for us. I mean all earthlings. What we can? Jump to the moon? or to Mars? And then scratch your turnips for a long time and think "why" It is clear that all these jumps of pure water are fiction. No idea. And it will not be until we invent something better than a rocket. It's like with airplanes: they tried to attach a steam engine to a glider. It didn't work, no one. No, it jumped into the air but did not fly. They made an internal combustion engine and immediately flew, and how. It's the same with space. We need a new principle of flights, everything else is complete bullshit. Fell did not fall, we have them. And do not care, another paper aircraft carrier sank. Who would doubt that.
        1. +7
          1 November 2014 21: 01
          Quote: shuhartred
          It’s like with airplanes: they tried to attach a steam engine to a glider. It did not work, no one. No, it bounced into the air but did not fly. They made an ICE and immediately flew, and how. The same with space. Need a new flight principle

          This is rather an analogy with Indian skin pie and the ocean "Titanic". It's not just the new engine that matters, the very concept of "why", as you correctly pointed out. If only for the development of science and technology - is also a necessary thing, without such experiments and developments, too, you will not go far. And so, only as in the middle of the twentieth century, who before - the time is not right, it became expensive: both in money and in human lives ...
          1. +2
            1 November 2014 21: 27
            Quote: Alex
            This is rather an analogy with Indian skin pie and the ocean "Titanic".

            How is this to be understood? Like, while swimming on pies - there were chocolate, but as soon as the "Titanic" was built, then he drowned ??? wassat
            1. +5
              1 November 2014 22: 09
              sniperу
              It's like that no matter how much you invent engines for a pie, neither Titanic nor Queen Mary will come out - the concept is not the same. Accordingly, you can only sail on the Mississippi from Missouri (okay, add Ontario, but only out of respect for Goiko Mitich). To get from Europe to America, here at least "Santa Maria" is necessary. And the fact that she has a similar body with a pie, like the law of comrade Archimedes, is determined, is empty even on an intuitive level. And the fact that the "Titanic" sank ... So the pies, too, I think, were not eternal laughing

              Somehow I think so ... Although the analogy with falling missiles and the Titanic ... I agree, there is something ...
              1. -2
                2 November 2014 20: 57
                Quote: Alex
                sniperу
                It's like that no matter how much you invent engines for a pie, neither Titanic nor Queen Mary will come out - the concept is not the same ....

                Tour Heyerdahl (with Senkevich) sailed the oceans on the papyrus boat "Ra" and on the raft "Kon-tiki".
                And the Vikings, even in the eleventh century, did not cross the Atlantic on nuclear submarines, you can recall the ancient Polynesians who reached the shores of South America, and this is the greatest Pacific Ocean on Earth, not at all on the Nimitz aircraft carrier and not even on Columbus's Santa Maria.
                1. +6
                  2 November 2014 23: 22
                  I know very well about the travels of Tour Heyerdahl at his reconstructions of ancient ships. As well as the fact that solitary and unsystematic (even successful) sailings are not yet sea power and not a system of sea transportation. This is not even an empire. What is the use of the Vikings not knowing how many times they have reached Greenland and Canada through the system of northern islands? Where are their possessions? A dozen settlements, the remains of which are only of interest to archaeologists. But in order to colonize the same Greenland, Denmark was already needed here, and not in the time of the Vikings, but with a more powerful fleet.

                  Likewise, modern missiles. Today, all this is nothing more than fascinating journeys of the ancient Egyptians, Vikings and Maori on their own through the boundless and dangerous expanses of the Ocean (Space). Here it is not so much the option "look, it is possible" to show it is necessary, but a clear answer to the question "and what, apart from satisfying curiosity, will it give us". And after that, look for what the received answer will help to implement. The current spacecraft perfectly solve the problems of near space, but they also say very unequivocally that the development of everything that follows will be very expensive and require a very long time. And this is only in order to fly to the same Mars. What to do there? Colonies? What such resource from there can recoup the cost of its delivery? Today there is no such resource. What they are talking about is more and more propaganda at the level of little science fiction. That is why we sail on pirogues and galleys from coast to coast, with pleasure after that we talk about distant shores and unknown lands. And curiosities that are there at every turn.
                2. +1
                  2 November 2014 23: 31
                  Tour Heyerdahl (with Senkevich) sailed the oceans on the papyrus boat "Ra" and on the raft "Kon-tiki".
                  And the Vikings, even in the eleventh century, did not cross the Atlantic on nuclear submarines, you can recall the ancient Polynesians who reached the shores of South America, and this is the greatest Pacific Ocean on Earth, not at all on the Nimitz aircraft carrier and not even on Columbus's Santa Maria.

                  This is the case when size matters.
                  "the greatest Pacific Ocean on Earth" is still on Earth, it is full of delicious fish and wherever you go, there is a coast somewhere. Swam - live. And there: flew in - fly back. Not to mention the timing.
        2. +2
          2 November 2014 13: 46
          NRE, TYARD, at least, for starters, enough for the Solar System (for 2-3 weeks to Mars and back, for 2-3 months to outer planets, for six months to Kuiper belt)
          1. +2
            2 November 2014 21: 10
            Quote: Bersaglieri
            NRE, TYARD, at least, for starters, enough for the Solar System (for 2-3 weeks to Mars and back, for 2-3 months to outer planets, for six months to Kuiper belt)

            So it may be so, but the launch into space of nuclear devices of high power and with long-living fissile materials is prohibited by international conventions.
            In order to circumvent this restriction, such devices will have to be produced on the Moon and nuclear fuel for them to be extracted and enriched there, or somehow agreed at the UN.
            1. +4
              2 November 2014 23: 45
              Quote: PENZYAC
              the launch into space of nuclear devices of high power and with long-living fissile materials is prohibited by international conventions.

              Conventions are written by people and for specific political tasks. They will decide that NRE is ready and more promising than chemical ones - they will give a command to physicists and ecologists, they will calculate the consequences (it’s ideal for me not to get into our own d ...), the restrictions will be removed, there can be no doubt. It’s just that while all this is in a deep theory, it’s not necessary to launch anything more real than an atomic bomb into space. This is the meaning of the convention, and for all its participants.
            2. 0
              3 November 2014 13: 05
              Convention- you change.
              Missile defense was also prohibited, and what do we have now? :)
        3. 0
          2 November 2014 14: 04
          I am still amazed that, someone could reach the moon. Given the navigation systems of the time, almost manually?
          1. +1
            2 November 2014 21: 11
            Quote: prio124
            I am still amazed that, someone could reach the moon. Given the navigation systems of the time, almost manually?

            Well, they didn’t fly by sextant and magnetic compass.
          2. battery
            0
            3 November 2014 08: 23
            doubts torment me not only that they flew, not their apollo (relics) miracles to work
          3. +1
            3 November 2014 13: 08
            Uh-huh. Moreover, many times. Moreover, in the absence of GPS and a wireless on-board computer, they managed to steer the Lunokhod from the Earth.

            Well, manned flights ... If in the 60s the safety criteria were the same as now, no one would fly anywhere.
        4. +3
          3 November 2014 14: 52
          But you dear, tell me what technology has been discovered by mankind since the 40s of the 20th century? NO! It's like with all the wonders of science and no fundamental discovery ??? The power of computer centers has grown by tens of orders of magnitude. figured out the basis of the universe, but the real exhaust is not observed .. Do you believe that this all happens by itself? That the human race cannot do anything new for 80 years? Yeah, all the last time she could. but already 80 years old ... It seems to me that someone is braking all this famously .. Even a cold fusion would move mankind forward with giant steps. But no one really does not develop this direction so reluctantly to allocate a pretty penny and that's all ...
          1. +3
            3 November 2014 17: 48
            Quote: max702
            But you dear, tell me what technology has been discovered by mankind since the 40s of the 20th century?

            A lot of technologies are open, but they are all "not there". I repeat once again: there is no idea. We know what to fly, but we don't know why. And to find out you need to fly. Such is the vicious circle
            Quote: max702
            It seems to me that someone is braking all this famously ..

            Yes, no one slows down, because no one is looking in this direction. No one is interested in manned deep space flights. Such projects can be carried out either in countries such as China or the USSR, or as opposed to them as in the United States. For 15 years from launching a satellite to flying to the moon! That's so hot! And then the union fell apart and all sharply fat pohren. And amer even earlier, flew to the moon and scored. Here, for sure, something is not clean. Ditch billions for show-offs? Somehow it's not in theirs. Yes, and the show-off is cheap, everyone knows the first person in space, and ask who was the first on the moon. 20 percent of Neil Armstrong will creak with a creak, the rest I don’t remember, although I was interested in
            1. +5
              3 November 2014 18: 11
              Quote: shuhartred
              everyone knows the first person in space, but ask who was the first on the moon. The percentages of 20 Neil Armstrong will be remembered with a creak, the rest I don’t remember, although I was closely interested

              EMNIP, there was still Buzz Aldrin, but I don’t remember who was the third with them (who remained in orbit). For sure, Gagarin is a legend, all the rest are successors.
            2. 0
              9 November 2014 12: 23
              Quote: shuhartred
              A lot of technologies are open, but they are all "not there"

              Well, name at least one fundamental? the latter were pulmonaries and the atomic reaction .. That's it! nothing else is open, all of today's achievements are the completion of semiconductor technology and the further development of nuclear energy (fast neutron reactor). What exactly was discovered in 80 years? Nanotechnology? Well, it’s possible, although there is still great doubt about the reality of this, for there are no working samples, I understand that the first computers were the size of a high-rise building .. But still, where are all these miracles that were written in science fiction? Where is antimatter? Where are superconductors at room temperature, anti-gravity, but a banal thermonuclear poison and then in the pen! And this, with the colossal scientific opportunities and allocated funds which have never been given to science before. By the way, the United States spends more on science than military spending .. Exhaust where? About space, sadness is generally sad, after a jerk of the 60-70s there is complete stagnation and stagnation, and also take an interest in what's new in medicine from the 60s .. Nothing! All antibiotics penicillin derivatives are slightly different from it, some advertising words .. And now tell me why nothing new? Really new?
          2. 0
            3 November 2014 18: 35
            Consumerism slows down.
            To transfer at least 10-20% of the funds from the auto industry or "glOmur" to Space ...
      3. +6
        1 November 2014 20: 04
        Quote: Siberian German
        what is being done specifically in addition to phrasing

        Layouts are being made! Back in the Soviet "Houses of Pioneers", the members of the circle made not bad models of any Fantastic spacecraft - even photon starships! Apparently the skill is not lost!
      4. +4
        2 November 2014 06: 50
        Hello. I am also a simple user. I am reading with interest about the development of our space program. So far, as I understand it, we are modernizing what is. And what is interesting is sketch designs has become more than even in the USSR. But in the USSR they immediately debugged what was impossible to do even then and now. The only thing that is and is being done is that the Angara system is completely Russian. But on the Greater there are no opportunities. Mr. Rogozin said yes, and here it was written about this, too, about the development of cosmonautics and problems. He spoke of two ways of development. Or to further develop in the space near the Earth or further from the Earth. And he is an informed person and I trust him. The challenge today is to work out the Angara system. And what is important, competition has now begun in the near space. The task is clear. I don’t even need explanations. I also talked about the ISS so far there will be an opportunity to work and support it. And on the agenda is Luna. Only on it you can work out the technologies that will be needed for a breakthrough further. So he outlined the future task of the Russian cosmonautics. Well, there are too many problems there. But there are already the first starts of the Angara, so slowly the business is moving. By the way, not so long ago, Rogozin’s appointment was discussed with might and main, how many opinions, how many suspicions, and as a result, success is visible to everyone. His words are not at odds with deeds. I, too, understand everyone slowly, very slowly, everything that is conceived is gaining momentum .. But this is a life entirely of problems, victories and failures.
    2. +3
      1 November 2014 21: 11
      Quote: retired
      Private spaceship crashed during test flight

      This is not exactly a spaceship. This is entertainment for tourists, a commercial project which is not related to NASA and space exploration, it is already 100% to interplanetary flights ...
    3. +3
      2 November 2014 07: 11
      But these are completely new technologies .. as long as they are not given so easily to humanity. It doesn’t matter where and in which country they are worked out and experience is gained. The whole story is full of accidents with victims. while developing new technologies all the more knowledge-intensive .. Mankind is not yet in a position to foresee everything, but emergency rescue is always provided for. But unfortunately it does not always save. The unknown always presents problems and all kinds of surprises. And what to stop the project. No, of course, but the next flight and the start will be completely different. To give 100% guarantees in such new high-tech products, mankind is not yet able to give.
    4. +3
      2 November 2014 13: 43
      SpaceshipTwo is a suborbital glider for tourists, not MTKK.
      With MTKK, it’s normal-out X37, after a long stay in orbit, sat down the other day.
  2. +10
    1 November 2014 08: 17
    Endless coordination, development of programs and development strategies, contests ... There is a lot of fuss, but this is the appearance of work, and the efficiency is extremely low.-Well, how did you like? here the budget is being decided, but you are talking about some kind of rocket. My mother-in-law will not forgive; if you do not pinch off a small fraction of the family for approval. Oh, we have a good country, but it’s better not to hide the pitchforks.
  3. +11
    1 November 2014 08: 26
    "... I recall the recent joke of the vice-president of the Russian government Dmitry Rogozin about a trampoline on which the Americans will have to send their crews to the ISS if they refuse to cooperate with Roscosmos." Mr. Rogozin seems to generally "like to joke", whether because of his "lack of information", or on an "emotional wave", not realizing reality. Personally, I somehow think that an official of this level should not "sink" to the level of "kitchen chatter".
    1. +8
      1 November 2014 08: 56
      Quote: sub307
      Personally, I somehow think that an official of this level should not "sink" to the level of "kitchen chatter".


      Well, in vain you are so - Rogozin is not even very bad at trolling them. And at the expense of a high official, etc. etc. - the presence of a sense of humor as a guarantee of mental health has not been canceled by anyone.
      And so at your leisure - go to the website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation (appeal section, notes, etc.). From such a mass of sarcasm, irony and humor, you can just burst out of laughter. But not the last department and the guys there are serious.
      1. +2
        1 November 2014 20: 08
        Quote: SHILO
        From such a mass of sarcasm, irony and humor, you can just burst out of laughter.

        After that, you begin to believe that the most important art for us is the circus!
        1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +7
      1 November 2014 12: 19
      Quote: sub307
      . I recall the recent joke of the vice-president of the government of the Russian Federation Dmitry Rogozin about the trampoline


      About a trampoline from a completely different opera, it has nothing to do with the exploration of deep space ... Here Rogozin looked into the water, given the recent events.
      As far as the exploration of deep space is concerned, as far as is known only recently in the bowels of Roskosmos the program "Exploration of deep space" was prepared. The basis is supposed to use the Vostochny cosmodrome and the Angara launch vehicle of heavy and superheavy class. So far, everything is at the stage of behind-the-scenes discussions of calculating the necessary funds and terms. In general, we need a super-heavy class launch vehicle.
      The emphasis is on the exploration of the moon. The nearest projects to study the Earth's satellite are the Luna-25, Luna-26 and Luna-27 devices. The launch of the Moon-25 is scheduled for 2018.

      According to the director of the Space Research Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences Lev Zeleny, after the automatic program is successfully implemented, it will be combined with manned flights to the moon, and by 2040, people will visit Mars.
      In the process of exploration of the moon, mankind may appear the need for nuclear power plants on its surface. This was stated by Vladimir Koshlakov, deputy general director of the State Research Center FSUE "Keldysh Center".
      - In the 2050s, when permanent stations appear on the moon, there will be a need for more powerful sources of energy. An alternative to solar power plants can be nuclear generators. We are actively working on this scenario, ”he said at a round table devoted to the study of the nearest planets of the solar system.

      At the same time, as stated by the head of the strategic planning department of Roscosmos, Yuri Makarov, The Federal Space Agency has developed a program for the exploration of deep space and the moon.

      link

      In general, the prospects are vague. The Americans plan to land the first humans on Mars by 2030, and we in 2040 and build a station on the moon in 2050 ...
      Americans by 2025 They plan to capture with the help of the spacecraft-controlled asteroid that they are going to deliver to the lunar orbit. According to experts, this asteroid will serve as a transshipment base for astronauts on their way to Mars by 2030.
      1. +6
        1 November 2014 15: 18
        and I read back in the 80s that people should have at least lived on Mars and under communism))

        Balls, balls, where are your sweets? ..
        1. 0
          2 November 2014 21: 23
          Quote: mark2
          and I read back in the 80s that people should have at least lived on Mars and under communism))

          Balls, balls, where are your sweets? ..

          I won’t be surprised if American dreams become much more modest, and our reality is ahead of today's plans of Roscosmos. Everything can be, wait and see.
      2. VOLKHOV
        +2
        1 November 2014 17: 03
        Quote: Ascetic
        In general, the prospects are vague.

        Interestingly, in the Russian Federation, has anyone seen a government agency with common sense?


        “Each manager then took upon himself all the responsibility in his own area of ​​work and made decisions within the framework of a common task,” recalls my interlocutor. - There was the strictest personal responsibility. And a thousand enterprises acted as a single mechanism. After 11 years, "Energy" launched into space. I would stress that the costs of its creation were much smaller than the incomparable in power of the current “Angara”, which has been created for more than 20 years ...

        In reality, all these crowds of managers are completely passive - it makes no difference to them to build or break, reflexes are only for retirement and summer cottage.
      3. +3
        1 November 2014 20: 12
        Quote: Ascetic
        So far, everything is in the stage of backstage discussions on calculating the necessary funds and timelines.

        At the prosecutor’s office! They calculate how much they steal (while it seems like 1.8 billions!), But it’s too early about the timing - the investigation is underway!
        1. 0
          2 November 2014 14: 12
          But then (oh my God) the general flew off the post. What a terrible punishment.
      4. +1
        1 November 2014 20: 13
        Quote: Ascetic
        Americans by 2030 plan to land the first people on Mars

        Freshly betrayed, but hard to believe hard.
        If only they will fly to Mars just as they "flew" to the Moon.
        1. 0
          2 November 2014 14: 12
          Kubrick Jr. will help
      5. +6
        1 November 2014 21: 08
        Quote: Ascetic
        According to Leo Zeleny, Director of the Space Research Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences ... already by the 2040 years, man will be on Mars.
        I don’t feel like clicking, but I (obviously, due to my age) am a skeptic in many respects. Such terms already remind of something from the recent past (What did Nikita Sergeyevich say about the 1980 year?) Or from literature (Khoja Nasreddin also spoke well about the prospects for long-term training of an artiodactyl). I think that without a soul (on the slipway / launch pad) not a single working launch vehicle of the appropriate class, setting such dates is somehow not very professional.
        1. -2
          2 November 2014 23: 51
          without having a single working launch vehicle of the appropriate class behind your soul (on the slipway / launch pad), setting such dates is somehow not very professional.


          Enough for the moon and proton. The hangar is on its way.
          1. +3
            3 November 2014 14: 38
            Quote: Aljavad
            Enough for the moon and proton.
            I would like to believe, but after all, it never came to a real check in the case. And the recent disasters are not very impressive. Although I'm not an expert, maybe it's not about technology, but about the notorious "human factor".

            The hangar is on its way.
            I wonder how the Angara can claim to be a ship of a new class? I didn't understand much from what I read. Maybe she is targeting the moon? Then the same question: what to do there? Backlog for a future with non-guaranteed prospects? In principle, it is possible, but I would like to somehow more definitely. And it looks like that Porthos: "I fight because I fight."
      6. 0
        1 November 2014 23: 33
        The emphasis is on landing on the tail of the Chinese, and with them at least somewhere to fly .. Either to the communal flat on the moon, or to help them get to Mars .. - we still don’t have enough money or capacities either serious do it alone.
  4. +8
    1 November 2014 08: 52
    In the United States, in addition to launching the Orion ship, private traders also plan to launch their ships, the CST-100 Boeing and Dragon SpaceX.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. +8
    1 November 2014 09: 13
    There was a strict personal responsibility
    That which is not now.
    1. +2
      1 November 2014 12: 10
      it doesn’t help that personal responsibility should change the political system.
      In a liberal capitalist society (in which we, alas) live, a person should be interested materially, and not socially. Those. to be able to profit from the sale of technologies developed by him. Accordingly, there should be a mechanism for commercial financing of developments and a mechanism for their sale (i.e., the opportunity, conditions and incentives for corporations and state corporations to buy them with benefit for themselves). We do not have any of the above, unfortunately, and we are seeing results.
      In a socialist society, the loss of social status led to an unambiguous descent along the social ladder and the strictest personal responsibility (i.e. the prospect of ceasing to be a director, general designer) worked as an instrument of influence.
      1. +1
        1 November 2014 20: 18
        Quote: tulaev
        need to change the political system.

        Do you offer to "step on a rake" again? It already looks like national fun!
        1. +5
          1 November 2014 20: 40
          no, not suggesting. I am stating an existing fact when trying to enter "personal" responsibility ...
          But unfortunately (!) In my opinion we have two options:
          1/
          the current elite rests, laying claim to a slice of the world pie, not understanding what they have to do and they are crushing it together with the country
          2/
          the elite understands that "the cow will have to be given," to nationalize the main sectors of the mining, processing industry and transport. Then its capitals are preserved, and they are squeezed out of the world market in view of the above (we will inevitably step on the interests of the world elite). If, simultaneously with nationalization, a policy of reducing the tax burden is pursued, barriers to entrepreneurship are removed (especially in agriculture and technology sectors), an amnesty for offshore capital is carried out, relations with Asia are preserved (from where the amnestied technologies will be purchased) and reduced by at least 80 % the state apparatus will create a real internal investment climate and the country will have a chance to rebuild the economy by the time they attack us with weapons.

          Unfortunately, judging by Putin's "Valdai" speech, we are following path (1), but no one is going to follow path two ... The result is complete paralysis in industries where constant technological growth is needed and the rocket and space industry is a vivid example of this.
        2. +1
          3 November 2014 19: 23
          what rake ??? on those on which we have been marking the feet since 91?
      2. 0
        4 November 2014 01: 11
        Dear, you are wrong Ilon Mask spends his money, invites people who he needs, and all these space agencies spend state money, therefore the result is that.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  7. +8
    1 November 2014 09: 51
    quite right, now there is no strict personal responsibility at all. there are only effective managers with breathtaking salaries.
  8. +3
    1 November 2014 10: 22
    As for the phrase "... Models do not fly into space" - apparently, the author is not quite "in the subject": when testing missile designs on experimental launches, they often launch "mass and size models" of payloads with attached telemetry. Because it is possible to take risks by launching real satellites on an unused rocket, but it is often very expensive. For example, this is how we lost some devices for the Moon ...
    1. +3
      1 November 2014 20: 23
      Quote: Dragon-y
      Apparently, the author is not quite "in the subject": when testing missile designs on experimental launches, they often launch "mass and size models" of payloads,

      In the subject in the subject! The author had in mind the layouts that we so love to show at various exhibitions and which remain the layouts (unfortunately) ...
  9. +4
    1 November 2014 10: 45
    Roscosmos had no time to engage in space exploration, it was busy increasing the number of officials and sawing up funds allocated from the state budget.
    1. 0
      4 November 2014 19: 12
      I agree.
      We just differently understand the result of the work. In our understanding, the result is to fly, but to officials and managers it doesn’t matter whether or not to fly, most importantly, to show work, busy activities, to master and cut the allocated funds. And in the bottom line, we have only models and tons of paper circulation.
      Until corruption is defeated in this country (or at least vigorous activity to eliminate it is launched), nothing new will fly anywhere - they don’t need it ...
  10. +5
    1 November 2014 11: 04
    The assembly of the NASA Orion manned spacecraft in the space center. Kennedy
    1. +2
      1 November 2014 13: 56
      And the Russian underfunded pepelats will fly no longer in 2018, but only in the year 2021. What kind of economy, such and achievements.
  11. +2
    1 November 2014 11: 54
    "I am bitter to see the growing lag of the national cosmonautics"
    I join Balmont, but the lag is not growing, but insurmountable. And it will remain so within the framework of the conditions created in our country for the development of new technologies.
  12. +3
    1 November 2014 13: 15
    Quote: Prager
    quite right, now there is no strict personal responsibility at all. there are only effective managers with breathtaking salaries.


    I agree with you. Now, for some reason, it is believed that the leader does not have to be a professional in a particular industry. The main thing is to be a good manager. As a result, deplorable results.
    1. +5
      1 November 2014 20: 12
      Features of national PRODUCTION!
      Heh, manager. At our aviation plant, at all, there is no competence of junior management, the so-called institute of masters. Here you go to a hairdresser, who cuts your hair, a hairdresser, that is, a master of a wig. Well, as I understand it, the master is a highly skilled a specialist who specifically answered the question "how to make a part?", will be able to stand up to the machine and show how to make it, at the same time quickly. And not answer me with a question to the question "Well, we did it like that before", or “Oh, well, I’ll find someone who can.” He is a master in his position, but I don’t think he’s a master of something. That is, in fact, a master, in our enterprise, is in the position of a secretary: informs before the work plans of the senior management, (well, within the limits of what they need to know), he also brings a blank, and then takes the finished part (usually complaining that it took too long), fills in the orders, solves other organizational issues, but , does not stand up to the machine. Moreover, there are workshops in which the master is, but There are no workers! They come there part-time to work. And one of the main features of these people is, excuse me, resourcefulness. What is the plan of the state defense order! The main thing is that they do not shove something from the bottom of the workers, but from the top of the bosses what is not shoved , - what a hell of a job, if there is only pornography around. And now he, poor thing, dodges the whole working day, -there he will keep silent, here he will wash out, now it's time to go home, so life goes on. But with my hands ... Sorry, you don't have to do anything, too, there is a plus. We can’t even imagine what is going on in our factory administrations, as an official event, so, lo and behold, all the jackets and ties, only pancake functionaries around.
      So maybe in order to learn how to create something, you need the whole system, no, not to destroy, but at least somehow to reorganize?
  13. 0
    1 November 2014 13: 17
    Mr. Golovachev firmly believes that the Americans flew to the moon on cardboard Hollywood pepelats? They painlessly flew through Van Allen’s belt and had full health, returned to their homeland? Apparently, in those years they did not know about their existence, therefore no one was hurt. When you write articles, Mr. Golovachev, be a little conformed to common sense.
    1. 0
      1 November 2014 20: 27
      Quote: 00105042
      Mr. Golovachev firmly believes that on the Hollywood cardboard pepelats, the Americans flew to the Moon

      With what ease, you put your denseness on public display! Boldly!
      1. +3
        2 November 2014 18: 10
        Quote: Bayonet
        With what ease, you put your denseness on public display! Boldly!

        Judging by the minuses, a dense man is a very common life form ...
  14. +1
    1 November 2014 13: 29
    Our Roscosmos, the best Roscosmos in the world! He still cannot understand, but what should he do in general? Throwing from one corner to another, because of the fact that instead of techies, they put a manager in the manager’s chair, who only knows how to hang noodles on his ears, but didn’t teach him how to work and think, but knows how to count money in his pocket ! So, all the promises will remain on paper until they put in specialists like Korolev S. P. And the “Angara”, they said correctly, it was out of date 20 years ago. When it was just beginning to be developed, but it was made by the plant where the head of Roscosmos once worked, which means that you have to support your own, and in material terms! So, if we fly, it’s not the Americans, but we, from the trampoline to space, but for now, we are content with the function of a cab driver on the ISS, take it, bring it! And the fact that the Antares from the Americans exploded is also a manager’s mistake, they bought engines in Ukraine, now, urgently, the Russians decided to buy, and rest assured, the rocket will fly!
    1. White
      0
      1 November 2014 20: 22
      bought engines in Ukraine, now, urgently, decided to buy Russian

      For reference, the engines Russian (more precisely Soviet) NK-33 are those that were made for the moon rocket Queen N1. Created by Kuznetsov in Samara. In Ukraine, Orbital ordered the first stage.
  15. polkownik1
    +9
    1 November 2014 13: 53
    The author's picture of our space industry is an almost accurate reflection of the situation in our government. Lack of leadership (with a supervisor), empty high school level meetings, no specifics, etc. .... would be wi-fi! The prime minister's conclusions on almost every issue: "We need to work ..." Close to disaster. There is no need to talk about any successes anywhere, until the main issue is resolved: a capable, professional government.
    1. +2
      1 November 2014 22: 56
      + Thanks for the comment. If there is no one to ask for real, there’s no business. One alabala.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  16. 0
    1 November 2014 14: 37
    We now have "auto-moto-bike-photo-cinema-radio monitors" in the management of ROSKOSMOS. That is why such a mess with layouts.
  17. +5
    1 November 2014 14: 41
    There is a difference in approach to doing absolutely everything in the US and Russia. Moreover. the difference is fundamental - in the USA, the customer's money is spent on solving a specific problem and the release of the final product, in Russia, money "stares", "masters" - no one is interested in releasing a product - the main thing is to "capitalize" the customer's money and put him on constant "service" so that he does not go anywhere and feeds the "producer" properly. Therefore, certain rules have already been established in the "business environment": if you need a final product, turn to European, American, Asian manufacturers, and if you need to "competently" "cut" the budget, for personal enrichment, then hire Russian companies
  18. juganin77
    +3
    1 November 2014 14: 52
    Sorry, of course, but I don't understand what the tragedy is. Let's, again, get involved in some kind of race, like the USSR in the 80s, the Buran program, space lasers, etc., etc. Where is it all? And where is the USSR now? Americans sleep and see that something, someone, somewhere to be drawn - for them, this is, first of all, an image project of global domination. So what if the Americans flew to the moon in the 60s, for 50 years the moon was captured or what? The country now faces more pressing problems; rearmament of the army, restoration of orbital groupings, restore all chains, critical industries, etc. So what if we fly to Mars later. In my opinion, the road will be mastered by the walking, not the running ...
    1. +4
      1 November 2014 16: 36
      Quote: juganin77
      The country now faces more pressing problems; rearmament of the army, restoration of orbital groups, restore all chains, critical production, etc.


      Well, my friend, engineer Elk flew to Mars at the beginning of the 20's and nothing, he flew after all :-)
      1. +7
        1 November 2014 21: 20
        Quote: saag
        Well, my friend, engineer Elk flew to Mars at the beginning of the 20's and nothing, he flew after all :-)

        Bedford and Keyvor on the Moon were in 1901, and Cyrano de Bergerac even before lol

        In general, the writers Luna, Mars and Venus mastered much earlier and more successfully than designers and astronauts. It’s a pity, life is not so simple.
      2. 0
        3 November 2014 00: 15
        Well, my friend, engineer Elk flew to Mars at the beginning of the 20's and nothing, he flew after all :-)

        belay Yeah ??? And did he and Aelita have children? And then maybe all of ours are already there ... feel
        1. +2
          3 November 2014 05: 48
          Quote: Aljavad
          Yeah ??? And did he and Aelita have children? And then maybe all of ours are already there ...

          He himself did not know, only every evening he sat down at the radio and waited for news :-)
          1. +2
            3 November 2014 14: 46
            Quote: saag
            He himself did not know, only every evening he sat down at the radio and waited for news :-)

            Well, gentlemen, you are somewhat behind the times.
            On the orders of Stalin, Los and Gusev built a second, larger ship, loaded a proletarian detachment and several copies of flying tanks onto it, and again went to Mars to continue the world revolution. Aelita was liberated, the troops of the empire were defeated, but the insidious Tuskub managed to launch the planet’s self-destruction system. She managed to deactivate, but the beautiful oases were destroyed and Elk and beloved Aelita lived out their days in love and light nostalgia (each about his own) in a small scrap of the only one that survived. True, nothing is said about children; seeing genetics has changed a little over thousands of years.

            I don’t remember how the “continuation” was called, it seems, “And apple trees will bloom on Mars”. Pretty cool and easy to read, but nothing more.
  19. 0
    1 November 2014 15: 15
    Article similar to stuffing. A similar article was immediately published when there was a series of accidents with our missiles this year and they also spoke about backwardness. Now this topic is being repeated so that the US spiteful critics would not be happy and the supporters of the theory of a colossal mess in Russia on all fronts would not be upset. Can anyone explain to me what the backlog of Russia in the space field is? In my opinion, no one has made a jerk in this area. As we flew on pipes with jet engines, we fly. Neither you from the airfield to the moon, nor even to the moon in principle. On the face of the degradation of science as a whole and its transition to the improvement of old technologies. those. what works, then grind. In all areas of science, the world has reached a technological impasse. As we drove to the ICE, and we go, as we flew on screw and jet engines - so we fly, etc.
    1. +1
      4 November 2014 11: 47
      Quote: mark2
      Article similar to stuffing.

      Yes, enemies are everywhere.
  20. Vlad1408
    0
    1 November 2014 15: 21
    A mess generating irresponsibility, this is happening not only in the space industry, but in almost the entire economy.
  21. Stan
    +1
    1 November 2014 15: 25
    the most difficult element of our ship that slows down the entire assembly are toilets (just kidding!)
    and with amers, everything is simple - the diaper pulled on and forward to the stars (in Orion there is no toilet, it's true, only diapers!)
  22. +2
    1 November 2014 15: 58
    I carefully read the article and comments to it. The article is deep, self-critical, but the members of which party instructed the article 5 minuses. All our propaganda jumps out of our pants, shouting about the tremendous successes, great opportunities of Russia, choking with foam in "patriotic" impulses in the style of Zhirinovsky, but the truth, when she is naked, is not as cloudless as we imagine. The situation is very serious and this requires political will, the concentration of the economy and finance on solving the tasks set by the president. But the 5th column in every possible way slows down the movement forward. It is economically beneficial for her to spit, do nothing and steal in the Chubais style and demand more money. Without a fundamental change in the existing thieves' economic model, there will be no achievements in space, as in other sectors of the economy. Yesterday I saw RED in the company of the first deputy prime minister at the polytechnic museum, that millionaire thief and acting vice with a super millionaire wife. Well, just an idyll. Symbiosis of the current and former deputy prime ministers. And you mean space achievements. Despite all Rogozin's attempts, God bless him, Roskomos will not see a breakthrough, I.V. is needed here. Stalin.
    1. -3
      1 November 2014 18: 41
      An article about problems in American space exploration plans.
      What does it have to do with it "shouting about the tremendous successes, great opportunities of Russia, she chokes with foam in" patriotic "impulses in the style of Zhirinovsky, but the truth, when she is naked, is not as cloudless as we imagine.
      Or is it another run in terms of information war?
      Do you really get money for this - for any reason, write "putinuhodi" wherever possible?
      Well, excuse me, for other reasons, besides congenital moronism this can not be explained in any way ...
  23. hard
    +2
    1 November 2014 16: 02
    [In Florida, a 700-ton high-class Delta-4 heavy rocket with a height of 22 floors was already installed at the starting position of the Air Force cosmodrome (Cape Canaveral). It stands inside a 100-meter service tower. From the open side of the tower, three huge rocket boosters are clearly visible, connected to each other in a packet scheme. / Quote] [start of the latest interplanetary 20-ton American ship Orion, designed for flights with the crew not only in low Earth orbit, but also to the moon , Mars, asteroids.quote]
    As we remember, "Saturn - 5" weighed 3000 tons at the start, while bringing a module weighing 45 tons with 3 crew members to the Moon. According to the amers themselves, the lunar module was sheathed with almost foil (to reduce weight). To prevent it from being burst by pressure, the oxygen atmosphere inside the ship was used. Please tell me what materials this pepelats is made of (note the weight). There is no desire to go further into the topic.
  24. 0
    1 November 2014 17: 49
    Quote:
    Orion ”is sent to Van Allen’s most dangerous radiation belts 4 thousand km from Earth. It is important to find solutions to protect crews and equipment from powerful radiation flows.

    Not understood...
    But in the process of preparing and carrying out lunar expeditions, have you not been able to find such solutions?
    Then how did they, the expeditions, take place - without protection from powerful radiation flows?
    1. +3
      1 November 2014 17: 57
      This remains the biggest mystery, like American ships, with an atmosphere of oxygen and covered with a layer of foil, about the one in which the chicken is baked in the oven, overcame the Van Allen belt! And not only in the flight there, but also on the way back, but interesting facts do not end there, like 3 astronauts, they sat in the descent module for 5 days, in case of failure of the heating system. Which is designed for 2 astronauts, and where there was oxygen for only 2 days! So there are more questions than answers!
      1. 0
        1 November 2014 20: 56
        Quote: Silence
        This remains the biggest mystery.

        There is such a big pile of baaalsh mysteries - choose any, all the most. hi
        1. +3
          1 November 2014 21: 02
          You are absolutely right! But NASA, admitted that the videos from the lunar expedition were stolen, probably by aliens, and therefore, half were shot in Hollywood, and now they sent films there for restoration! So, we are waiting for new astronauts on Mars!
    2. 0
      1 November 2014 20: 36
      Quote: Mestny
      But in the process of preparing and carrying out lunar expeditions, have you not been able to find such solutions?
      Then how did they, the expeditions, take place - without protection from powerful radiation flows?

      This refers to the protection of the crew on long expeditions - not a few days when flying to the moon, but years!
      1. +2
        1 November 2014 21: 09
        When magnetic storms arise in the sun, the astronauts are urgently thrust into the descent vehicle! He has better protection than the station, although he flies much closer to the ground, and is released when a neutron flux slips past the ground. So, there is protection, it’s the atmosphere of the earth. You can replace the lead plate, but how to drag it into orbit, because in thickness it will pull a meter!
      2. +2
        1 November 2014 21: 26
        Quote: Bayonet
        This refers to the protection of the crew on long expeditions - not a few days when flying to the moon, but years!

        You know, at certain times and when flying to the moon, a few hours are enough to get a decent dose.
        Moreover, the two "flights" exactly coincided with the increased activity of our star.
        1. +2
          1 November 2014 21: 43
          Therefore, solar activity is calculated. And then, you can get such a dose that Chernobyl will seem like a fairy tale! Experiments were conducted to protect the crew in long space missions, and they used steel and protection from the water, which they just did not try to offer. But so far, nothing specific has been developed, and therefore there were doubts whether the Americans were on the moon, and why the skeletons didn’t come back. The most reasonable way is recognized. When the ship’s engine is turned towards the star, after gaining speed, and the capsule with the crew is in its shadow! But all the same, powerful protection against radiation is needed, therefore it was proposed to build a ship in orbit of the earth, otherwise, such a colossus, could not be lifted into space from the earth!
    3. 0
      1 November 2014 20: 54
      Quote: Mestny
      But in the process of preparing and carrying out lunar expeditions, have you not been able to find such solutions?
      Then how did they, the expeditions, take place - without protection from powerful radiation flows?

      They, when "implemented", somehow missed such insignificant details.
      So there was definitely no radiation, the god’s specialist for the time turned off this disgrace for a while. laughing
  25. +2
    1 November 2014 19: 09
    Let's wait for December and look at the start of "Delta-4" !!! It has been a lot of kipesh lately at our "best friends" !!!
    1. +1
      1 November 2014 20: 15
      Again, some unidentified ship will be discovered. wink
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. 0
    1 November 2014 20: 20
    And we-kaklonam gas!
  28. 0
    1 November 2014 20: 38
    - Why do private foreign space companies quickly achieve results? ... highly qualified specialists are involved,... many of them with Russian roots.
  29. 0
    1 November 2014 21: 57
    Quote: mark2
    Article similar to stuffing. A similar article was immediately published when there was a series of accidents with our missiles this year and they also spoke about backwardness. Now this topic is being repeated so that the US spiteful critics would not be happy and the supporters of the theory of a colossal mess in Russia on all fronts would not be upset. Can anyone explain to me what the backlog of Russia in the space field is? In my opinion, no one has made a jerk in this area. As we flew on pipes with jet engines, we fly. Neither you from the airfield to the moon, nor even to the moon in principle. On the face of the degradation of science as a whole and its transition to the improvement of old technologies. those. what works, then grind. In all areas of science, the world has reached a technological impasse. As we drove to the ICE, and we go, as we flew on screw and jet engines - so we fly, etc.


    It can also be added that the world lived under capitalism, and lives under capitalism. And not a single capitalist, if he is not guaranteed 300% of the profit, will not go to the technological re-equipment of production and will not invest in science and promising developments. And so everywhere. We owe this to the United States (the Shooting States of America), which occupies the so-called "leading position in the world" and to various other Swedes who hinder social progress in all ways, but above all by unleashing a war, which gives transnational corporations this notorious three hundred percent profit.
  30. +1
    1 November 2014 23: 19
    Do we need results and achievements in the space field?
    Then you need to move on to the technocratic management scheme in the space industry (..as it was during the time of the Queen).
    Then it all degenerated into a pseudo-technocratic hangout ...
    We techies have a clear tendency to rot ..
    For example, a group of young engineers came to a young research institute (NIIFI, Penza, where I worked) in the early 60's.
    One of them became a director a little later, the other - deputy for science, the next - chief engineer, then - the heads of departments .. And so - everything was rigidly fixed and ossified for the next 30-40 years.
    Some movement and achievements - yes, there were .. but mostly at the lower level ..
    And now there in general - space show-offs and complete impotence ..
    And the most amazing thing - well, in an absolutely empty place ..
    Because if you need results? - agree with who can give them - and no problem
    Why work through w_ (fifth point) - when you can get both results and the pleasure of them and work.
    1. 0
      2 November 2014 08: 43
      Here you can add
      Now everything looks like some kind of feudalism -
      ".. now it is necessary to recruit for each person in the laboratory contracts for 2 million rubles .."
      - like a godfather on a quitrent or corvee.
      And then what after the conclusion of contracts?
      Next - Network Charts, on the implementation of what they promised ..
      The schedules are generally monotonous - the workshop needs a lot of things .., the supply needs time and money, .., we connect the designers .., my part of the work is the actual beginning in July, ..
      completion of the development of the program and mathematical part in May (! - of the same year) ..

      Question to the management of NIIFI
      With such an organization of work, an intelligible result will be?
      What is clearly missing here?

      Reply.
      With such an organization of work, in order for everything to spin and work correctly, it is necessary that the actual high-quality and finished result be ALREADY obtained (! - before the start of Network Graphics). And when the result has already been obtained - let's connect the workshops and production, let's use the supply, designers, etc.
      All that these m * dacks can do is worsen this result (remember DXS-25, how many I asked these m * dacks to make the correct PCB layout).

      And what happens.
      As an actual author and developer, I must bear the effort and costs.
      There are no questions on the technique here - I have all the required CAD systems, have experience of launching in contract manufacturing, I have design methodologies based on components from the 80s, I know the NIIFI know-how from the 80s, I have the art of design and mathematical training ..
      And it turns out that for the success of the contract, someone must actually make the result of this contract and give it to this whole collective farm ..
    2. Tribuns
      0
      9 November 2014 23: 48
      So, in order: 1.About Sergei Pavlovich Korolev, who for many years until his death led our space program, has been said a lot and it is a pity that his leadership and Russia's successes in space were interrupted by death ... 2. Now, on the transition from one control system to another in the form of "technocratic" - "pseudo-technocratic" - control system in the form of "space show-offs" ...
      It has always been, is and will be that an enterprise will be successful only if it is managed by creative professionals-specialists in a specific field of technology, and no matter how many years they have been at the helm of the enterprise ... There are dozens of examples of managers who have been at the head of aerospace enterprises for many years (Kuznetsov - NTK named after ND Kuznetsov, Samara; Kozlov - TsSKB-Progress, Samara; Tupolev - MMZ "Experience", Moscow; Lyulka - MMZ "Nauka", Moscow, etc.), thanks to the talent and experience of which the USSR, and then Russia were the leaders in the global aerospace industry ... In our opinion, the lack of success at the enterprises of the military-industrial complex is not that they have been at the helm of enterprises for many years or are (now, as a rule, they are no longer, they have been pushed aside) by professional managers, but the fact that they were replaced by appointees, the so-called "effective" managers-executives who are not capable of creative technical work, but capable of "making money out of thin air" ... And such a problem is not only in industry, but also in science and education ... to then will answer for this and who will resolve it? But this is another topic of conversation ... To understand the position of which circle of people, I express a few words about myself: 18 years of work as a category 1 designer in the aggregate aerospace design bureau, currently a university teacher, doctor of sciences, professor ...
  31. 0
    1 November 2014 23: 30
    After the collapse of the USSR, the United States has new markets for the introduction of the dollar. Bucks began to print in even larger quantities. The inflow of dough was huge. But for some reason they did not rush into the gap in space, but simply took and profiled their space program.
  32. hard
    +2
    2 November 2014 10: 57
    Quote: Silence
    So, we are waiting for new astronauts on Mars!

    Saturn's moon Mimas, captured by Voyager 2 (launch 1977), is very similar to some planet from Star Wars (the image is FANTASTICALLY clear). Was there a boy? There are a lot of questions about the Matraslend space programs. After reading Vicki, one gets the impression that you are reading amers' science fiction. Without going into details: there was a mountain of problems, and they, SUDDENLY, were successfully resolved. Telemetry, communications, software, energy, the method of obtaining an image, its processing (then there was no digital photography), encoding and transmission of the image (remember: in 1977), say, from the orbit of Saturn (distance from the Sun 1,4 billion. km), protection from various types of hard radiation, magnetic fields (Jupiter and Saturn have very powerful magnetic and radiation fields, moreover, these planets are powerful sources of radio emission), etc., etc. The conclusion suggests itself: it is almost impossible to verify all this, one can only believe in it! But in science the concept of "faith" is not! Minus. The arguments are very long and tedious (I have a computer recently, I am already typing with 2 fingers), but there is reason for reflection.
    1. +2
      2 November 2014 11: 34
      Voyagers are generally some kind of fantasy .. Work for so many years .. Well, what about electronics and power supply, if nothing has broken for so many years ...
      1. +1
        2 November 2014 18: 08
        Quote: Dikson
        Well there for electronics and power supply

        radio tubes and RTGs, why break there?
  33. hard
    0
    2 November 2014 11: 50
    Quote: Ascetic
    Americans by 2025 They plan to capture with the help of the spacecraft-controlled asteroid that they are going to deliver to the lunar orbit. According to experts, this asteroid will serve as a transshipment base for astronauts on their way to Mars by 2030.

    Capture an asteroid? Did they take V. Golovachev to the staff? Where, what mass and volume, in what way will be transported to the lunar orbit (what cool engines)? To service the base on an asteroid near the moon, you need an apparatus that can fly to the moon for one or two times. I also like to dream, though I don’t get paid for it. NASA, throw off, please, a couple of lemons of bucks, I’m planning this for you, that if you give it to the average person (you know how to do it), you will pay back the costs in a week. But in fact, no one has canceled Khvizik and AriHmetik. But mushrooms must be collected only those in which I am sure.
    1. +1
      2 November 2014 18: 10
      Quote: hard
      Capture an asteroid? Did they take V. Golovachev to the staff?

      maybe there’s a cobblestone-sized asteroid? his manipulator - DAC and aboard into the container
  34. hard
    +1
    2 November 2014 12: 17
    Quote: Silence
    When magnetic storms arise in the sun, the astronauts are urgently thrust into the descent vehicle! He has better protection than the station, although he flies much closer to the ground, and is released when a neutron flux slips past the ground. So, there is protection, it’s the atmosphere of the earth. You can replace the lead plate, but how to drag it into orbit, because in thickness it will pull a meter!

    Lead will not save from neutron radiation, only water, paraffins, in general, substances containing enough hydrogen atoms. In "Lurkomorye" there is an article "Radiation", presented in a form that anyone can understand (with humor and a little trolling, as always), read it and have fun (not kidding!).
  35. +1
    2 November 2014 13: 34
    where is our private business? most of the new spacecraft are private companies. for the money that some people spend on yachts, it is quite possible to have some kind of student (students will build it for free, just let them build materials) a lunar rover. would have named it in their honor and some kind of "Rabinovich" is crawling on the moon. would amuse pride. wink
    1. The comment was deleted.
  36. 0
    2 November 2014 17: 55
    Quote: Alex
    I think that without a soul (on the slipway / launch pad) not a single working launch vehicle of the appropriate class, setting such dates is somehow not very professional.


    To schedule ... sorry, "mastering" the budget (budgets) does not require much cleverness!
    1. +3
      2 November 2014 23: 49
      Quote: ROMANO
      To schedule ... sorry, "mastering" the budget (budgets) does not require much cleverness!

      Here's what is interesting: it seems that everyone sees and understands everything, but no one does anything to stop this outrage. Your deeds are wonderful, Lord.
  37. 0
    2 November 2014 20: 02
    In the USSR, everything was different! Now liberalism, my mommy is not grieving.
  38. battery
    0
    3 November 2014 09: 19
    in overseas, too, you have already learned how to use money, cut the budget, sometimes be healthy, one Soya space program of which costs pumping lasers with a nuclear explosion feel just when they realize that someone had raped them for money, and very cool, they quietly fold the shop and secret all the information, it’s usual yes laughing that they were so "smart" and "strong" were bred as a simple village idiot who came to the city for the first time in his life lol well, or take a piece of the Lockhead firm: an invisible plane (I probably caught sight of a book with a title on the cover but could not read it, otherwise I would know that under certain conditions it is very visible, and the "damn Russians" with their S300s and 400s feel here again this shop "Lockhead" retrained and conceived in a short time to pile a working thermonuclear generator (with cold fusion)) almost on his knee in the garage and from improvised material, I expect an apology in the style of Little Johnny from an anecdote: - "Sorry, the beard turned out to be garbage.
  39. Tribuns
    +3
    3 November 2014 14: 53
    Alas, Roscosmos, like a child, -
    We can chide slightly ...
    After all, in December the start of "Orion"
    Ah, we are with a model from the salon ...
    There is no success without Korolev, -
    Ah, "Angara" is outdated ...
  40. GDV
    +1
    3 November 2014 16: 43
    The industry needs to be cleaned, Lavrenty Palych could motivate people, steal away, welcome to the test cosmonauts, and we revealed the failure of the Briz-M upper stage. Everything, the head of the workshop, the acceptance masters, as well as the manufacturers of defective parts, are written to the astronauts, I think
    ten people will be typed, and the next product is being tested with the help of volunteers.

    Apart from jokes, only with enthusiasm and patriotism we can raise the space industry, why not throw a cry to the respected D. Rogozin for our patriots, scientists and specialists, and with the help of our wise special organs, weeding out the grain from the chaff to create a team of like-minded people.
    And the very first thing I would do would be to fire everyone who held leadership positions, and who had nothing to do with techies, and put guys from punitive bodies in leadership positions,
    enthusiasm for patriotism, but no one canceled the betrayal.
    And of course, financially, the guys provide and remember the practice of closed towns, for example, on the site of Shapito called Skolkovo, where nothing is produced around methane with its fat priests. Create an academic campus of the closed type Skolkovo 1 with all that it implies.
    1. +1
      4 November 2014 12: 01
      Quote: GDV
      why not throw a cry to the respected D. Rogozin for our patriots

      First of all, it’s D. Rogozin that it didn’t fall. He joked about the trampoline, sits in his chair, and the money goes ...
      And what if they do something and does not fly? then they can take it off the chair ...
  41. 0
    3 November 2014 23: 12
    Quote: ilya_oz
    They are developing a new superheavy rocket. And 20t is the Orion ship itself (even 25) (our Union weighs 7t)

    Payload Soyuz-2.1b (one of the modifications of the Union) up to 8,2 tons!
  42. +1
    3 November 2014 23: 27
    You just need to appoint the necessary, "competent" leaders for this matter. Chubais or Serdyukov and give them more dough, and tomorrow you will hear about the incredible successes of our Roscosmos. I guarantee!
    1. +1
      4 November 2014 12: 04
      Serdyukov tady will immediately order from the custodians a space helicopter carrier for horseradish and will receive another order.
  43. 0
    4 November 2014 16: 11
    Tranquility is only Tranquility! All that should fly will fly roofing felts in space roofing felts to hell !!! Gone are the days gone by now stealing is very difficult and believe RUSSIA in five years will be SUPERPOWER now incredible things are being done for this !!! Pay attention to how our Vladimir Putin works with young people. I think that this argument alone is enough! Do not dare to doubt a bit in our RUSSIA! stop
  44. nikolai.arbaev
    0
    15 November 2014 21: 09
    The hypothesis is not jet propulsion; maybe someone would listen to the collective farmer. Ten years ago, he hinted about his idea in the ministry, and a few years later my compatriot Yalbakov says create and light a small light bulb says then let's see, he is engaged in "alternative energy". In Novosibirsk, he studied, worked with Chubanov, this idea experienced billions banged did not work, they built a pipe, did the valves at the bottom, in general, they did not work out the bullshit idea. He refused to help me. Heard the idea, let's push, but the essence is not clear to them, so they flew by. And the idea is quite real, but alas, like others are not in demand. So for a couple ... they would fly to the Moon or Mars.
  45. msm
    msm
    0
    10 January 2015 19: 54
    The author as a child: "Why, why ..."; - because there is a regular cut!

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

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