Military Review

Flight of fantasy

90
Prospective American fighters will get weapon on new physical principles and start saving fuel

When building the F-35 Lightning II (Universal Light Fighter) costing more than 300 billions of dollars, the US Department of Defense made sure that a single fighter is not the optimal solution. With a high degree of probability, the Pentagon will allow the Air Force and Navy to select separate programs for the design of new generation fighter aircraft, according to experts from Aviation Week and Space Technology weekly.

The FX program, which is implemented by the US Air Force, is intended to replace the F-22A Raptor and E-F-15C fighters. This was announced by Colonel Tom Koglitor, who is responsible for carrying out work to gain air superiority: “At present, it is determined which of the available capabilities are necessary and what can be realized both in one aircraft and in a number of future platforms. We work with various US laboratories and research organizations to find technologies that are acceptable to us. ”

At the same time, the US Navy began work on the F / A-XX program to replace the F / A-18E / F "Super Hornet" carrier-based fighter jets and EA-18G "Boeling" carrier-based electronic warfare aircraft (Boeing).

Despite the fact that in the programs of the Navy and Air Force there will be common elements and technologies, the specific requirements of each type of troops do not allow combining these projects into one. Joint study of various alternatives to justify the need for the development of separate programs continues.

“I suppose our requirements will differ significantly from those put forward by the Navy,” emphasizes Tom Koglititor. - The naval forces are likely to focus on adapting the prospective aircraft to the aircraft carrier. Naval systems will be more offensive in nature and used in more difficult tactical conditions compared to Air Force aircraft. ”

Prospective FX fighter is designed to achieve superiority in the air. It is assumed that, unlike F-15E, it will not take part in carrying out tasks to constrain the actions of the enemy. This program is currently at a stage prior to exploring alternatives, and the Air Force is consulting with the US defense industry to collect data on the technologies developed. Analysis of alternatives can last about 18 months. Along with the development of a new platform, the US Air Force will study the technical capabilities and prospects for upgrading existing aircraft. In the 2018 year, it is planned to begin the stage of preparing technologies for the FX program.

Flight of fantasyFX planning started in 2008. It was then that they began to calculate the requirements that could become relevant in the 2030's. The US Air Force believes that in the near future will identify areas in which there is a lack of technology. Information is strictly classified.

FX can become an upgraded version of an already developed manned fighter, an unmanned aircraft, or combine elements of both. Experts consider all options.

In the US Air Force in 2030, the need for a fighter will ripen, which can effectively deal with all types of future threats. By this time, most of the X-NUMX generation fighters of the F-5 generation will be in the 22 formation for more than 50 years, and the F-30C will be more than half a century old. The fleet of these aircraft will begin to decline gradually.

Western experts believe that FX will be a completely new project. A promising fighter must be able to intercept enemy counterparts, destroy Aviation the enemy, to carry out the tasks of escorting aircraft and protecting airspace, to suppress other people's air defense systems.

At the moment, the requirements for FX for speed, acceleration, maneuverability, height, stealth, range, payload have not yet been determined. For example, the F-22 can fly at cruising supersonic speeds, which provides new, previously inaccessible tactical capabilities. The US Air Force will have to accurately determine the appropriate required values ​​for FX. “We are currently exploring areas of development in this area,” explained Koglititor.

The factor of stealth in modern conditions still remains significant, but not to the same extent as before. Experts believe that as the means of detection and suppression develop, its significance for aircraft decreases. "In addition to stealth technology, there are other ways, and in the future we will consider the most optimal options," said Koglirator.

It is expected that the FX will be equipped with technically advanced compared to the F-22 and F-35 avionics. At present, the Navy is considering the possibility of integrating artificial intelligence technologies into its promising F / A-XX fighter. The USAF is also working in this direction X.

Taking into account the experience gained during the creation of the F-35, the Air Force is likely to make the prospective aircraft as adaptable as possible to the modernization with wide use in the design of an open electronic architecture. Among other technologies, weapons based on new physical principles can be integrated into FX, in particular, DEW (Direct Energy Weapon).

The Air Force is also working towards the creation of advanced aircraft engines with a variable cycle and the possibility of choosing the mode of operation. This will allow to achieve significant fuel savings. Such a power plant at supersonic cruising speed can operate a turbofan inductor mode. In the case when high specific thrust is required for flying at a higher speed, the engine could operate in turbojet mode. There is a US Air Force program to create a similar AETD (Adaptive Engine Technology Technology) aircraft propulsion system and the next phase of the Adaptive Engine Transition Program (AETP). The engine will improve the performance of power, temperature, flight range and fuel efficiency. As a result, the size of the aircraft may be reduced due to a decrease in the volume of fuel tanks. It is also possible to increase the fighter range of the former size. In turn, reducing the size can increase maneuverability and reduce the cost. In principle, an aircraft engine with an adjustable cycle will provide the Air Force a lot of opportunities.

But the command of the aviation systems of the US Navy and some Western technical experts are quite restrained in the development of variable-cycle aircraft engines. In marine conditions, as studies have shown, these power plants do not provide key advantages. According to analysts, the differences between the Air Force and Navy on this issue are caused by the nature of the combat missions that have to be performed.

The US Navy expects to begin the research phase of alternatives in its program to create a promising F / A-XX fighter in 2015. Recently, the leadership of this type of troops organized a series of meetings with representatives of the military-industrial complex to discuss the possibilities of a new generation combat aircraft. It is assumed that F / A-XX will perform combat missions that are unattainable for the F / A-18E / F fighter.

According to experts, the Air Force and the US Navy are considering the same concept. “The platform can be both manned and unmanned. It is aimed at ensuring the compliance of new weapons with the defense budgets of future years, ”said the representative of the US Navy.

The US Navy is also carrying out work on the integration of armaments, based on the principle of directional energy transfer, to the advanced F / A-XX fighter. In general, it is assumed that the concept of the new aircraft will resemble the "Hornet" and "Super Hornet." “Until the end of the study of alternatives, we cannot say whether the work will be carried out to create a new platform or to integrate new technologies into the already created aircraft,” says the representative of the Navy. “But according to the results of this stage, we will formulate the necessary recommendations.”

The cost of F / A-XX is likely to be the minimum allowed.
Author:
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/22353
90 comments
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  1. DRA-88
    DRA-88 24 October 2014 14: 50
    +12
    On branches about aviation, I like reading opinions of respected people more than commenting .. smile
    1. Terminolol
      Terminolol 24 October 2014 15: 58
      +6
      And what is there to comment, the cut of the dough continues, they themselves print, they spend. Judging by the price of the latest models, new ones will be in the space rocket segment.
    2. sergey32
      sergey32 24 October 2014 16: 11
      +3
      Or maybe the amateur’s uncovered gaze sometimes sees something important. IMHO, aviation has approached the threshold when a qualitative leap is required. As in the transition from a propeller to a jet engine. Otherwise, an increase in effort and price does not match the end result.
    3. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 24 October 2014 16: 38
      +3
      Quote: DRA-88
      On branches about aviation, I like reading opinions of respected people more than commenting .. smile

      I wouldn't say that. Of course, I am from the "green" and my interest in aviation is exclusively consumerist because it is nice when the sky supports, and does not mix with the ground, but as for the "Lighting-2" project, it is quite breathing for itself. And vaf spoke well of him. And he is still a real authority in aviation. Here's the latest news.

      ] "Military Parity." On October 20, Lockheed Martin announced that it had delivered just 22 of the 36 F-35 fighter jets ordered today, only two months left to deliver the remaining 14 aircraft, but Lockheed hopes to catch up. A source familiar with the 399 billion-dollar program said the slowdown on the schedule is a concern for the Pentagon. Fulfillment of the ambitious plan to supply 36 aircraft this year was in jeopardy.
      Company spokesman Mike Rein told the agency that of the delayed 14 12 aircraft, they are at the stage of testing the engine or the beginning of flight tests (two fighters are ready for the acceptance procedure), the assembly of the remaining two aircraft should be completed on November 3.
      The slowdown in production is due to a three-week trial of the causes of an engine fire this summer, as well as an increase in the volume of working documentation with the transition from the fifth to the sixth small batch. In December 2012 of the year, Lockheed also faced a schedule lag problem and redoubled its efforts to deliver nine cars in December.
      The company and the Pentagon are working on the design of the eighth batch of aircraft in the amount of 4 billion US dollars. As part of this party, fighters for the United States, Italy, Israel, Norway, the UK and Japan will be released. The contract is expected to be signed this or early next week.
      1. Patriot.ru.
        Patriot.ru. 24 October 2014 20: 07
        0
        "By this time, the F-22 will serve 30 years F-15C for about half a century."


        The author does not take into account how long the F-35s will have served by this time, apparently they have already been written off.
      2. Jin
        Jin 24 October 2014 20: 25
        0
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        I am of course from the "green"


        Greetings, colleague! Ah, why not tell the truth? smile

        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        as for the "Lighting-2" project, it is quite breathing


        Breathing - breathing, but hoarse ...

        And that VAF really positively spoke about this project? Odaaaako what
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 24 October 2014 22: 32
          0
          Quote: Jin

          And that VAF really positively spoke about this project? Odaaaako what

          true.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Giant thought
      Giant thought 24 October 2014 17: 00
      +1
      Something about the flight of fantasy is not visible in the article.
      1. Manul
        Manul 24 October 2014 23: 28
        0
        Quote: Thought Giant
        Something about the flight of fantasy is not visible in the article.

        laughing Don't judge a book by its cover and title hi Although I also bought, like you.
    6. Sergei1982
      Sergei1982 24 October 2014 17: 05
      0
      Even if 300 green lards are invested and 15 years of development, then there will definitely be new princes belay
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 24 October 2014 17: 18
        +2
        Everyone is talking about the exorbitant cost of the F-22 (35), how much will a new miracle cost !?
        1. supertiger21
          supertiger21 24 October 2014 17: 51
          +1
          Quote: Kasym
          Everyone is talking about the exorbitant cost of the F-22 (35)


          You don’t have to mix F-22 and F-35. It’s the same as because of the high price of PAK FA, to call the MiG-35 a very expensive aircraft. The cost of the F-22A at the moment is $ 143 million, and the F-35A ( not to be confused with B and C) - $ 98 million, which is significantly less. Two other modifications are more expensive: F-35B - $ 104 million, F-35C - $ 116 million. As serial production increases, the cost of the F-35 may decrease by another $ 10-15 million
        2. Iline
          Iline 24 October 2014 18: 28
          +2
          Quote: Kasym
          how much will a new miracle cost !?

          In the article, in Russian it says in white "the cost of F / A-XX is likely to be the minimum acceptable." And understand this as you want.
          At one time, Mikoyan was asked if he could create a fighter that remained unsurpassed for a long time. He replied that he could, but then its value would exceed the cost of pure gold by the weight of this aircraft. Does anyone need this?
          But seriously, the Americans are starting to strain, especially with the development of aircraft engines. Even the T-50s cannot bring the engine to mind for years.
  2. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 24 October 2014 14: 52
    +20
    How much humanity is wasting time, money and other resources for developing weapons is incomprehensible to the mind. As soon as the Raptor appeared, a new child prodigy was being prepared to replace him. That would be the same designers, manufacturers and resources to direct to peaceful affairs. what It seems to me that it would not have been just fly to Mars, but built a bridge there.
    1. Dmitry Toderes
      Dmitry Toderes 24 October 2014 15: 01
      +1
      Quote: Vladimirets
      How much humanity is wasting time, money and other resources for developing weapons is incomprehensible to the mind. As soon as the Raptor appeared, a new child prodigy was being prepared to replace him. That would be the same designers, manufacturers and resources to direct to peaceful affairs. what It seems to me that it would not have been just fly to Mars, but built a bridge there.


      What? Bridge to Mars !? These planets revolve around the sun. Aw! Which bridge?

      PS Although this was probably a joke.
      1. jjj
        jjj 24 October 2014 15: 11
        +2
        By the way, the Chinese made a statement about the 6 generation aircraft a week earlier
        1. Aleksey_K
          Aleksey_K 24 October 2014 17: 29
          +2
          They still do not have a single 5 generation aircraft in the army. And dreaming is not harmful. You can tell your vision about the 10 generation aircraft. Priorities arise only when the aircraft is created, tested, and fighting in the troops, and at the same time its operation does not lead to permanent breakdowns and disasters. Russian designers and scientists do not boast and do the right thing. Just tell the idea how immediately its enemies will intercept.
      2. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 24 October 2014 15: 46
        +9
        Quote: Dmitry Toderese
        What? Bridge to Mars !? These planets revolve around the sun. Aw! Which bridge?

        You do not work in a funeral home? Why are you so serious? wink
        1. abdrah
          abdrah 24 October 2014 16: 17
          +3
          Quote: Vladimirets
          You do not work in a funeral home? Why are you so serious?

          - I work with people, I bury them .. (c) S. Slepakov. laughing

      3. Dmitry Toderes
        Dmitry Toderes 24 October 2014 16: 06
        +1
        Quote: Dmitry Toderese
        Quote: Vladimirets
        How much humanity is wasting time, money and other resources for developing weapons is incomprehensible to the mind. As soon as the Raptor appeared, a new child prodigy was being prepared to replace him. That would be the same designers, manufacturers and resources to direct to peaceful affairs. what It seems to me that it would not have been just fly to Mars, but built a bridge there.


        What? Bridge to Mars !? These planets revolve around the sun. Aw! Which bridge?

        PS Although this was probably a joke.


        Pancake. I wanted to write around its axis. The error came out.
      4. Dmitry Toderes
        Dmitry Toderes 24 October 2014 16: 10
        0
        Quote: Dmitry Toderese
        Quote: Vladimirets
        How much humanity is wasting time, money and other resources for developing weapons is incomprehensible to the mind. As soon as the Raptor appeared, a new child prodigy was being prepared to replace him. That would be the same designers, manufacturers and resources to direct to peaceful affairs. what It seems to me that it would not have been just fly to Mars, but built a bridge there.


        What? Bridge to Mars !? These planets revolve around the sun. Aw! Which bridge?

        PS Although this was probably a joke.


        Moderators - delete this comment.
      5. Aleksey_K
        Aleksey_K 24 October 2014 17: 23
        +3
        Artistic exaggeration is called hyperbole. This phrase simply says that there would be enough money for something unimaginable in a peaceful life.
    2. Styx
      Styx 24 October 2014 15: 14
      +2
      Well, the bridge is not a bridge, but bases and terraforming could already begin. Such thoughts constantly haunt me
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 24 October 2014 15: 51
        +5
        I also think this way, but more globally: in particular, I am interested in the terraforming of Ganymede, the largest satellite of Jupiter. The most likely plan is the initial heating of the surface of Ganymede by means of giant Fresnel lenses in the geostationary Ganymedean orbit. Just calculating this orbit is not easy.
        1. Jin
          Jin 24 October 2014 20: 39
          +2
          Quote: Basarev
          I also think this way, but more globally: in particular, I am interested in the terraforming of Ganymede, the largest satellite of Jupiter. The most likely plan is the initial heating of the surface of Ganymede by means of giant Fresnel lenses in the geostationary Ganymedean orbit. Just calculating this orbit is not easy.


          Yes, colleague. And I am extremely worried about the need to launch a project to deliver water from Europe to Ganymede, only by cans, and not by enameled buckets !!! And it’s not possible to carry it from the Earth, after all !!!

          The most likely plan is Pakistan.
    3. blizart
      blizart 24 October 2014 15: 14
      +2
      How much humanity is wasting time, money and other resources for developing weapons is incomprehensible to the mind.
      But still, one must not forget that the development of weapons moves science and technology like nothing else. Churchill said about it this way: Nothing contributes to development as a combination of desire and necessity!
      1. Dezinto
        Dezinto 24 October 2014 15: 32
        +3
        But still, one must not forget that the development of weapons moves science and technology like nothing else.


        It moves but does not move, because armament drowns people again in ruin. Two steps forward two steps back.

        On the other hand, of course, progress is certainly happening, all the same, from the catapult to the ballistic missiles have reached, but it is slower than it could be.

        These are two steps forward and one and a half steps back ...
      2. novobranets
        novobranets 24 October 2014 16: 08
        +3
        Quote: blizart
        But still, one must not forget that the development of weapons moves science and technology like nothing else.

        Yuri Gagarin flew on an intercontinental ballistic missile, slightly modernized.
    4. MIV999
      MIV999 24 October 2014 15: 17
      +6
      Promising US fighters will receive weapons on new physical principles and will begin to save fuel

      ... but for ukroVVS wassat this model will be finalized with a special intellectual option that will allow the aircraft not only to save repeat , but also independently (without the participation of the pilot) lol fuel from a neighbor request on the hangar ...
  3. DMB-75
    DMB-75 24 October 2014 14: 52
    +35
    But Russia has something to answer: hi
    1. Styx
      Styx 24 October 2014 15: 17
      +6
      Mdyayaya yes she is, my native underground aviation laughing
    2. Basarev
      Basarev 24 October 2014 15: 54
      +1
      The question is not idle. Does she herself calculate the lead or is it the old fashioned way, by eye?
  4. Lenar
    Lenar 24 October 2014 14: 52
    +1
    I, too, and with my mouth open with surprise, watch videos of flights and maneuvering
  5. mig31
    mig31 24 October 2014 14: 53
    +4
    When I look at him in the tail I don’t understand how he can compete with ours with one thrust ....
    1. supertiger21
      supertiger21 24 October 2014 17: 59
      0
      Quote: mig31
      When I look at him in the tail I don’t understand how he can compete with ours with one thrust ....


      But the F-35 is not the first in history to have one engine. To recall at least how many famous single-engine fighters: MiG-17, Mirage-III, MiG-21, F-16 were all successful. However, some of their twin-engine peers , for example, the MiG-23 and F-4, came out just less successful and the statistics of their defeats exceeded the statistics of their victories.
      1. mig31
        mig31 24 October 2014 18: 23
        -1
        What don’t you say F35 is a parody of 5, maybe a little better than the third generation, in a word - another PHANTOM for the poor Africa, but you can’t even wait as much as against Russia, they were afraid they themselves had done for such and such money ..... .
      2. nik6006
        nik6006 24 October 2014 19: 39
        +1
        The MiG-23 has one engine!
        1. Zuborez
          Zuborez 25 October 2014 23: 40
          0
          Ahead)
  6. bmv04636
    bmv04636 24 October 2014 14: 57
    +3
    do not save fuel, but produce it in flight wassat
  7. Vyacheslav 64
    Vyacheslav 64 24 October 2014 14: 59
    +3
    The enemy is strong and treacherous. But our planes are good, and what’s important - much cheaper!
  8. Vtel
    Vtel 24 October 2014 15: 00
    +3
    With the F-35, they chipped, and they thought up a new golden duck, no matter how lame it was, although the main thing for the Yankees is to make money out of money.
  9. Dilshat
    Dilshat 24 October 2014 15: 00
    +2
    My version is this: that not all 300bn were spent on the f-35. Most of this money could be spent on an orbiting satellite or on a 6th generation unmanned fighter.
    1. spec.78
      spec.78 24 October 2014 15: 10
      +3
      or a new yacht or a beautiful house, etc.)))))) How to cut the budget mattresses we can only quietly stand on the sidelines)))))
    2. spec.78
      spec.78 24 October 2014 15: 10
      0
      or a new yacht or a beautiful house, etc.)))))) How to cut the budget mattresses we can only quietly stand on the sidelines)))))
  10. hard
    hard 24 October 2014 15: 01
    +4
    Quote: bmv04636
    do not save fuel, but produce it in flight

    Bravo! I suppose that the creation of the next Volta will be accompanied by a no less ambitious cut in the taxpayer dough of the United States than when creating the F-35.
    1. Basarev
      Basarev 24 October 2014 15: 58
      +1
      Meanwhile, in the USSR during the war years there was such a technology. One and a half trucks with gas generators cruised along the Road of Life, supplying Leningrad with the necessary minimum.
  11. wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 24 October 2014 15: 03
    +6
    The alleged appearance of the new fighter:


    http://www.dailytechinfo.org/military/3229-proekt-istrebitelya-shestogo-pokoleni

    ya-2030-goda-ot-kompanii-lockheed-martin.html
    The project is being carried out by Northrop-Grumman, Boeing and Lockheed-Martin, apparently on a competitive basis.
    1. Mama_Cholli
      Mama_Cholli 24 October 2014 15: 26
      +3
      Something like a paper airplane looks like ...
    2. Basarev
      Basarev 24 October 2014 15: 59
      +1
      It would be better if Northop did his strategists, but did not climb into someone else's sled.
    3. Manul
      Manul 24 October 2014 23: 37
      0
      Quote: wanderer_032
      The alleged appearance of the new fighter: ..

      And what are they going to steer?
  12. Denis fj
    Denis fj 24 October 2014 15: 06
    +11
    We have something to answer.
    According to the plan, serial deliveries of fifth-generation combat aircraft to the troops will begin in 2016. But it is possible that the combat units of the Air Force will receive the T-50 ahead of schedule. Uraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ....!

    clickable.
    1. blizart
      blizart 24 October 2014 15: 19
      +6
      But it is possible that the combat units of the Air Force will receive the T-50 ahead of schedule. Uraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ....!
      As the poet said, and I (kindly) join: Hopes for young men feed, they give joy to the elders.
    2. supertiger21
      supertiger21 24 October 2014 18: 04
      +1
      Quote: Denis fj
      We have something to answer.
      According to the plan, serial deliveries of fifth-generation combat aircraft to the troops will begin in 2016. But it is possible that the combat units of the Air Force will receive the T-50 ahead of schedule. Uraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ....!

      clickable.


      Before time shout Hurray negative ! PAK FA is still at the stage of state testing, they said that adoption was postponed until 2017-2018. Good aircraft are not made so quickly. wink
      1. Manul
        Manul 24 October 2014 23: 50
        +1
        Quote: supertiger21
        Before time, shout Hurray! PAK FA is still at the stage of state testing, they said that adoption was delayed until 2017-2018. Good planes are not made so quickly.

        Oh, how you yourself want to rip off the earflaps, throw it up, and it will soar into thousands of the same joyful earflaps, peakless caps, garrison caps and Budenovka hats! And I want to scream - LIKE WE ARE WELL !!!!! And only an echo mockingly and quietly will echo "Mother-mother-mother" .. wink Don't minus. I'm glad too repeat
  13. panfil
    panfil 24 October 2014 15: 17
    +4
    It is good that our military customers did not follow the Americans' lead - to make three in one. In this matter, we were wiser, and our plane will be better, more reliable, cheaper. Here we got three in one.
  14. hard
    hard 24 October 2014 15: 19
    +5
    Quote: bmv04636
    do not save fuel, but produce it in flight

    There is one know-how. Introduce the US Air Force pilots into a regular diet: 1st dish - bean soup, 2nd dish - pea porridge, 3rd dish - milk with a sandwich with herring, + cucumber salad.
    1. novobranets
      novobranets 24 October 2014 17: 59
      +2
      Quote: hard
      1st dish - bean soup, 2nd - pea porridge,

      After five minutes of flight, the cockpit will burst with excess pressure. wassat
      1. Manul
        Manul 24 October 2014 23: 54
        +1
        Quote: novobranets
        Quote: hard
        1st dish - bean soup, 2nd - pea porridge,
        After five minutes of flight, the cockpit will burst with excess pressure.

        And if you add hot chili peppers to the menu before peas, can there be a chance to get supersonic? fellow
  15. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 24 October 2014 15: 22
    +8
    Somehow everyone ran into the performance characteristics of the f-35 and did not notice the main difference from other aircraft. On the F-35, the glued fuselage and plumage of plastics and metals are being worked out. There are still problems, but when the technology and materials work out, it will allow "glue" the fuselages and empennage in matrices, on automated lines, with minimal costs and in any quantities. Our combat aircraft are still made almost by hand from metals with riveted joints, and their performance characteristics are still higher, but the manufacturing technology is the beginning of the last century. It requires a large number of skilled personnel, scarce during the war, metals, takes a relatively long time and manual labor, while the Americans will be able to produce their aircraft practically on robotic lines, almost without human intervention, and from petrochemical products. I think what an advantage this is in a war, everyone understands. And as the experience of the Second World War shows, the war is won by the one who produces aircraft, albeit with the worst performance characteristics, but in larger quantities and at lower costs.
    1. panfil
      panfil 24 October 2014 15: 38
      +3
      It is not enough just to produce an airplane, it still has to be reliable, and as little time is spent on its maintenance. So the Americans did the opposite. The aircraft did not work reliably and requires a very long time for maintenance and, accordingly, a large number of technicians for maintenance. In wartime conditions, as you indicated, this will be a big problem. So here we have parity.
      1. chunga-changa
        chunga-changa 24 October 2014 16: 19
        +1
        During the war, airplanes do not live long, the quantity rules, but this is lyrics. The reliability and durability of glued sandwich structures is now being finalized, and it is, in principle, higher than that of riveted metal structures. I don’t know about the reliability of engines and equipment, but usually these diseases are treated during operation. The only way to solve this problem in principle is to simplify on-board systems in every possible way and to abandon some systems, but this way, in my opinion, is of no interest to anyone, including our designers. But automation and simplification of the production of the airframe itself is a big reserve that the Americans have already begun to use, but we have not. Plus, a lighter fuselage allows you to use either less powerful engines, or their smaller number, or increase the combat load.
    2. typhoon7
      typhoon7 24 October 2014 16: 54
      +3
      Glued glider is far from the most important thing in these machines. Radar, engines and much more can’t be glued together, and this is the most expensive thing on the plane, you just don’t blindfold it all. The release of engines is a very complex and very expensive thing that is not tough for all powers.
      1. blizart
        blizart 24 October 2014 17: 27
        +1
        And let's not forget
        About 3 and D printing!
        How Slepakov did it! laughing
      2. chunga-changa
        chunga-changa 24 October 2014 18: 00
        +2
        What a strange discussion it turns out. I write about innovations in the manufacture of the case, they write to me about the shortcomings in the avionics and engine. Take for example PAK-FA, everyone knows that there is no regular engine for it yet, everyone agrees to wait as long as necessary. Everyone knows about the problems with avionics, which only solve, everyone is sure that this is excellent and the plane is beautiful. But with the same or lesser problems, the f-35s all write that the plane is a city, but this will not work. I understand that patriotism is wonderful, I myself am a patriot and against the United States, but as if you need to look at things realistically, otherwise there will be no sense.
    3. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 24 October 2014 17: 50
      +1
      The war between Russia and America will not be an ordinary war, as in the last century, the war will be thermonuclear. In principle, in general, it doesn’t matter how planes are made, when the entire infrastructure of the country is destroyed, hundreds of millions will be destroyed, and the rest will be eliminated from radiation sickness. The Stone Age will come in certain territories, only with the presence of automatic weapons, and in the greater part of the Earth there will generally be a radioactive desert. But when the cartridges are over, there will be knives and clubs. People will forget languages, writing in a few decades, because there will be no teachers, and mothers and fathers who passed the exam and themselves do not know anything and will further forget, because this knowledge is unnecessary. So there will be no countries that quickly make cheap airplanes.
    4. Manul
      Manul 25 October 2014 00: 14
      0
      Quote: chunga-changa
      Somehow everyone ran into the performance characteristics of the f-35 and did not notice the main difference from other aircraft. On the F-35, the glued fuselage and plumage of plastics and metals are being worked out. There are still problems, but when the technology and materials work out, it will allow "glue" the fuselages and empennage in matrices, on automated lines, with minimal costs and in any quantities. Our combat aircraft are still made almost by hand from metals with riveted joints, and their performance characteristics are still higher, but the manufacturing technology is the beginning of the last century. It requires a large number of skilled personnel, scarce during the war, metals, takes a relatively long time and manual labor, while the Americans will be able to produce their aircraft practically on robotic lines, almost without human intervention, and from petrochemical products. I think what an advantage this is in a war, everyone understands. And as the experience of the Second World War shows, the war is won by the one who produces aircraft, albeit with the worst performance characteristics, but in larger quantities and at lower costs.

      Bravo!
    5. Zuborez
      Zuborez 25 October 2014 23: 46
      0
      Quote: chunga-changa
      Our combat aircraft so far are made almost manually from metals with riveted joints,

      They have played enough with composites on the T-50 and are now returning to titanium and stainless steel. And about "manually" and "riveted" ... laughing "They are terribly far from the people" (c)
  16. Magic archer
    Magic archer 24 October 2014 15: 22
    +4
    Balaboly. I’ll explain why I call them that. I hit the 6 generation fighter of course already. But there are no technologies for its production yet. Because the basic requirements for it are not worked out! I read an interesting article on this subject. The main indicators were Unmanned , hypersound and the ability to enter orbit. That is, a highly maneuverable Shuttle with weapons. At the moment, this is only from the science fiction section.
    1. Basarev
      Basarev 24 October 2014 16: 07
      0
      This is not fiction at all. Remember the Lavochkin space plane, called the Spiral. He was in a high standard of readiness, but for an inexplicable reason he was banned. But it was still in the sixties. There was Buran, but he is rather an orbital strategist. In addition, they say that Buran was a pure copy of the Shuttle and nothing more, so my sympathies are on the Spiral side.
      1. typhoon7
        typhoon7 24 October 2014 17: 06
        +2
        Energia-Buran, cooler than the SHUTTLE, We have a super-heavy carrier "Energy, which was only worth, now we and the Amers and the Chinese need such a carrier, but no one except the Union has yet reached this. Looks similar, but different.
        1. Ezhaak
          Ezhaak 24 October 2014 17: 15
          0
          Quote: typhoon7
          They look similar, but different.

          The main thing is that similar functions can be performed. And the external resemblance is insignificant.
  17. arslan23
    arslan23 24 October 2014 15: 23
    +3
    What kind of weapons of direct energy impact on the fighter are we talking about ???? Until they develop a compact and very powerful source of energy, as well as more efficient emitters, it makes no sense to even think about it. First you need to make a breakthrough in fundamental knowledge. Create the first thermonuclear reactor. And they are already going to stick a super laser on a fighter. The maximum is a blindfold for pilots, at the current level. And after 20 years, nothing will change if physicists cannot make a breakthrough in understanding the universe and its laws. To begin with, it is better to master a ramjet on a rocket and aircraft. To really make a leap forward, you need an engine on different principles. With higher efficiency and power. Jet engines reach their limits, as do the bodies of pilots. What is needed is absolutely new. Where is it ????
    1. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 24 October 2014 15: 41
      +2
      I advise you to read more about the thermonuclear reactor. It cannot be compact in principle. And the deuterium-tritium cycle gives such a flux of fast neutrons that such a reactor is much more dangerous than a conventional nuclear one, which can be made compact.
    2. Basarev
      Basarev 24 October 2014 16: 15
      0
      But what if you go back to the screw? An electric motor has the highest efficiency among all engines, and a valve jet electric motor has the highest efficiency among electric motors. The molten salt reactor has a very small size and weight, as well as a high level of safety - some even put it on satellites. Modern submarine propellers are no match for old propellers, since they are tremendously superior in all key respects. I think that when all these factors are combined, it will turn out to be a small, super-maneuverable, hypersonic aircraft with extremely low fuel consumption and a huge flight range.
      1. Aleksey_K
        Aleksey_K 24 October 2014 17: 57
        0
        Such a plane will fall due to pest enemies to Moscow and all Muscovites will become ZOMBIES. This is of course a joke, but a nuclear explosion in the fall is provided.
    3. VOLKHOV
      VOLKHOV 24 October 2014 17: 12
      +1
      Quote: arslan23
      And they are already going to stick a super laser on a fighter.

      Recently, the X-37 landed, carried an X-ray laser on board and shot from it, only the red became places from radiation. So everything works and is controlled remotely so that the pilot does not get sick.
      And before that, an X-ray laser was transported to the shuttle Columbia, she was unlucky and the laser in the fall burned green. Draw conclusions and change the media.
      Flight of fancy in the commentary of the cheers-patriots on VO - there is no cooler, I go to enjoy.
      1. Mama_Cholli
        Mama_Cholli 24 October 2014 17: 41
        +1
        Even in the USSR, similar equipment was installed on satellites in the USSR, so we all need to use this piece of iron, which alone costs so much that you can stick it with S-500 pillars during the military district.
        So we are waiting for this flashlight ...
        Enjoy ...
        1. Manul
          Manul 25 October 2014 00: 17
          0
          Quote: Mama_Cholli
          In our USSR, similar equipment was installed on satellites,

          And in Russia?
      2. Aleksey_K
        Aleksey_K 24 October 2014 18: 04
        +1
        X-37 is a single expensive item. In the presence of air defense systems shooting down orbital objects, he can’t live for a long time, because at supersonic and at cosmic speeds, the flight path is completely predictable. But in the absence of the enemy of such systems (Libya, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Avganistan, etc.) it is a very solid weapon.
        1. VOLKHOV
          VOLKHOV 24 October 2014 23: 10
          -1
          Quote: Алексей_К
          X-37 is a single expensive item.

          Not a Kalashnikov assault rifle, but the flight of the second and more than a year.
          Quote: Алексей_К
          In the presence of air defense systems shooting down orbital objects, he can’t live for a long time,

          He himself is the air defense system for orbital and stratospheric objects - with target designation he will also hit a rocket firing at him, and instantly.
          Quote: Алексей_К
          But in the absence of the enemy of such systems (Libya, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Avganistan, etc.) it is a very solid weapon.

          For shooting at Afghan partisans, he is not a weapon at all - the X-ray is absorbed with a flash in the stratosphere and the partisans will only entertain.
          The psychological state of Russians is extremely interesting methodologically, but also very sad - some kind of propaganda poster, put into practice. Homeless 1200 years.
    4. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 24 October 2014 17: 54
      +1
      In the USSR, an airplane with a nuclear reactor was created. Its pilot operation has shown that this is still a dead end technology.
      1. Zuborez
        Zuborez 25 October 2014 23: 52
        0
        And in the states was.
        But the dead end was non-dead end, in those days there were several other technologies. These machines flew normally, the main problems on earth were.
  18. VNP1958PVN
    VNP1958PVN 24 October 2014 15: 25
    +4
    How will FA / XX react to the S-400? ... and subsequent C wassat
    1. Mama_Cholli
      Mama_Cholli 24 October 2014 17: 29
      0
      ... will react exactly as much as it will be close to the explosion of the warhead of these missiles ...
  19. Wiruz
    Wiruz 24 October 2014 15: 26
    +2
    After all, I said that the States will fill up all their allies with penguins, and they themselves will either resume the production of the Raptor, or begin to create a new, more powerful IPP laughing
  20. Styx
    Styx 24 October 2014 15: 26
    0
    Oh, those peppers, did they at least bring their F35 cuttlefish to their minds, or did they twist and turn and abandoned them? I read the other day an article from 2010 about them - she was dying with laughter. I’m racking my brains - who this time threw up an am.ram another das is fiction?laughing
    1. An60
      An60 24 October 2014 16: 15
      +2
      Probably another comic about a super dude.
    2. supertiger21
      supertiger21 24 October 2014 18: 12
      0
      Enough ahead of time from the F-35 to sculpt shit. Underestimating the enemy did not lead anyone to good. Laughs the one who laughs last, and this was clearly visible from the summer campaign of the war in the Donbass. Banderlogs also planned to hold a parade in Donetsk at the beginning. However, all the endless lulling Ukrainian cheers patriots ended with the fact that the militia began to pose a serious threat to the Zaporizhzhya region.
      1. Styx
        Styx 25 October 2014 07: 47
        +1
        The militia began to pose a particularly strong threat in Zaporozhye after information began to reach about the cutting out of entire villages bordering the Donbass, where the Natsiks visited. And before that, everyone was waiting for something. And the F-35 was a karatitsa and it will remain, apparently for sure :)
        1. supertiger21
          supertiger21 25 October 2014 21: 58
          0
          Have you personally tested and tested this "cuttlefish"?
  21. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 24 October 2014 15: 38
    +2
    They have not fought a worthy adversary for a long time, and all their wunderwaffles are tearing themselves away from reality more and more. Good management, damn it.
  22. chromovas
    chromovas 24 October 2014 15: 40
    +1
    Quote: wanderer_032
    Estimated appearance of a new fighter

    Raptor from under pressing)))
  23. Maksim...
    Maksim... 24 October 2014 15: 48
    +1
    In doc. the film "Air Battles of the Future" seriously said that the radar (exactly what the radar) of the F-35 is capable of knocking out radar systems of the S-300/400 type.
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 24 October 2014 18: 16
      +1
      This is just a movie. And who tested our S-300/400 kmplexes? Maybe Russia provided them to the Americans? But in the Black Sea, quite recently, our plane brought out all the electronics on an American ship. Moreover, he made several combat calls on the ship, and the ship was unable to repel attacks even with the use of anti-aircraft gun weapons. And their Aegis system is screwed up. In the aftermath of this incident, many of the sailors on the ship wrote letters of resignation from the ranks of the US Army. Can you imagine what additional psychological weapons were used against the people on the ship, that their "roof went down". And this is just one plane. It is possible that the F-35 has something similar. Everyone is looking for new technologies for superweapons.
      1. Aleksey_K
        Aleksey_K 24 October 2014 22: 18
        -1
        I will add a video to the commentary about the American ship in the Black Sea, for those who doubt it.
        1. Manul
          Manul 25 October 2014 00: 23
          +2
          Quote: Алексей_К
          I will add a video to the commentary about the American ship in the Black Sea, for those who doubt it.

          What kind of video is this? Is this documentary evidence, is this an official appeal from the Pentagon? This is a stupid fake, which I have not yet seen any evidence. I have said more than once that, like everyone else, I will be glad to believe it. But I didn’t see any evidence. And in this video the dumbest voice "kalamiya pictures represents" probably thinks that Habins are steppes in the Alps.
    2. Zuborez
      Zuborez 26 October 2014 00: 04
      0
      He can be)), such as create a directional interference.
      But it will shine brighter than the Sun. Moreover, such a power resource will be consumed several times. Yes, and the developers of air defense systems do not slurp too smile
      IMHO all this talk before combat use cases is an air shock.
      And the fact that the operation of all this machinery is already with the United States warriors is a problem-fact.
      In the second Iraqi era, Apache Longbow did not make any sorties on serviceable vehicles. And they did a lot of sorties themselves)).
  24. Igarr
    Igarr 24 October 2014 15: 50
    +4
    Honestly, I didn’t quite drive.
    6th generation fighter, plus +, ++, minus 7th and still manned?
    Well, what in this case will give super-duper turbofan engines with inductive effect. Just a reduction in fuel consumption?
    It turns out that all the fuss is for not buying oil from Russia in the middle of the 21st century. So it turns out.
    I thought it would be hyperatospheric, with the possibility of action in near space. At a speed of, for example, Makhov is from 0 to 15. Bearing Gaussian guns, some plasma guns. Missiles - do not bring the Lord.
    ...
    And the Americans again sculpt the wunderwaffle with greatly reduced fuel consumption. But, sabaki, they produce shale oil.
    They, of course, will do what they want. They always succeed. Not in practice, so in PR. Flag in their hands.
    And what will be with us? How to find out?
    I think it would be much more interesting. For us.
  25. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 24 October 2014 16: 05
    +2
    Well, you don’t have to believe everything that pi-n-d-o-ss are allowed to go to the press. No one will aloud share with their shortcomings in ensuring the country's security, and even more so about promising weapons.
    1. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 24 October 2014 18: 18
      0
      Leading countries share accidents with airplanes according to agreements. Because such a catastrophe can cause a nuclear attack from an ignorant adversary.
  26. gladysheff2010
    gladysheff2010 24 October 2014 16: 25
    +4
    The Americans urgently need a submarine-based unmanned Shuttle to work in deep space, send proposals to the address: Barack Obama, White House, Washington, DC, USA, or to the European branch: P. Poroshenko, Independence Square, Kiev, Ukraine ( knock three times).
  27. Prager
    Prager 24 October 2014 16: 31
    +1
    all this is done to pump more and more money out of the state budget.
  28. Aibolit64
    Aibolit64 24 October 2014 16: 59
    0
    richer in thought.
  29. Ezhaak
    Ezhaak 24 October 2014 17: 09
    +1
    A promising fighter should be able to intercept enemy counterparts, destroy enemy aircraft, perform missions to support aircraft and protect airspace, and suppress other people's air defense systems.

    So they would immediately say, we want to eat a fish and not sit down on anything!
  30. sv68
    sv68 24 October 2014 17: 10
    +2
    the new plane will receive an index of f36,6 but not everyone can fly it, or rather few people can do it in the future laughing laughing
  31. Bormental
    Bormental 24 October 2014 19: 06
    0
    Beautifully Americans are sawing the budget. With fantasy. Zionist Perdyukov never dreamed of.
  32. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 24 October 2014 19: 50
    +1
    The F-35 will replace the F-16 and F-18 operating "on the ground".
    But there really is no replacement for the F-15.
    F-22 - a specialized aircraft with strategic capabilities
    inconspicuous passage of air defense. It is not suitable for front-line tasks.
    gaining dominance in the air.
    1. Denis fj
      Denis fj 24 October 2014 20: 08
      -2
      voyaka uh can you dream laughing
      Americans have a persistent senile feeling about the invulnerability of their latest aircraft and aircraft-bearing maritime groups. Already in the 80s, the USSR has long developed a system for destroying aircraft carrier forces by delivering a massive strike with anti-ship missiles of the class air-to-sea and sea-sea (Ship missiles), which guarantees complete destruction. Invincibility of aircraft carriers is a fairy tale for American fifth graders. What do you think, why does the C 400 have 4 missiles? And what do you think will remain of F22 with its means of detecting air defense, active systems, if it is not physically designed for the detection of systems such as C400 by TTX? American military power is greatly exaggerated. An example of this is the downed American planes in Yugoslavia by outdated Soviet air defense systems. They perfectly saw on the radars the so-called invisible planes. And now the Americans are composing another tale of an invulnerable aircraft.
  33. strelok581
    strelok581 24 October 2014 20: 41
    0
    Quote: Terminol
    And what is there to comment, the cut of the dough continues, they themselves print, they spend. Judging by the price of the latest models, new ones will be in the space rocket segment.

    It will be all the more pleasant to destroy these expensive toys.
  34. Dry_T-50
    Dry_T-50 25 October 2014 22: 57
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    F-22 - a specialized aircraft with strategic capabilities
    inconspicuous passage of air defense. It is not suitable for front-line tasks.
    gaining dominance in the air.

    WHAT???????!!!!!!!!
    What are the strategic possibilities of the F-22? From bombs, either 2 by 227 kg, or 4 by 114 kg. Range-760km-2900 km. With the use of refueling tanks, the range increases, but this makes it clear to the enemy that F-22 is used in this area.
    So the F-22 is just a replacement for the F-15, i.e., a fighter for achieving air superiority