Electronics mishaps

64
Management of the industry is lost, funds are being sprayed, brains are leaking

A meeting of the radio-electronic industry section of the Expert Council on legislative support of the military-industrial complex and military-technical cooperation was held at the Federation Council. The issue of support for domestic electronics manufacturers was discussed.

The long-standing prayer of the industry’s defenders has finally been heard, but not in Russia, but on both sides of the Atlantic. EU states and the United States adopted sanctions that resulted in retaliation - import substitution. This is a lifeline for domestic electronics. It involves a set of measures to protect the Russian manufacturer, which the experts have been saying for many years. But can our electronics in two or three years rise to the level of if not full import substitution, then at least partial, that is, allowing the Russian defense industry to not depend on foreign arbitrariness?

Rehabilitation of the Ministry

First of all, it is worth analyzing two attempts to revive the electronic industry in Russia. In the late nineties, Nobel Prize winner Zhores Alferov tried to build a new foundation for the industry - a microprocessor manufacturing plant in Shuvalov, near St. Petersburg. German academic partners agreed to invest in the construction of about a billion dollars. Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko also promised to invest in the plant decent money. It was assumed that the reimbursement of costs to investors will be the supply of electronic products. The project promised to have a good multiplicative effect. In addition to creating the basis for the transfer of the economy, in particular the defense industry complex, to the innovative path of development, it was planned that the plant would become a training and production base for students and graduates of the St. Petersburg Physicotechnical Institute. Ioffe This made it possible to stop the brain drain abroad and into the non-production sphere in Russia. The matter remained for small - to receive state guarantees for investments. But they were not given. Some experts believe that this was the result of the lobbying efforts of Sistema, which has large assets in the electronics industry in Zelenograd. Indeed, why build an electronics center near St. Petersburg, if one already exists near Moscow. Such a logic would be fair for a socialist economy. But in modern conditions the Germans wanted to deal only with Zhores Alferov. As a result, the industry freed from ministerial trusteeship stumbled over vaunted competition, and the state lost the opportunity to insure itself against sectoral sanctions that collapsed against it in 2014. By the way, Zhores Alferov repeatedly warned the country's leadership about the likelihood of such a development.

The second significant attempt to revive the industry is associated with the adoption of the Federal Target Program “Development of the electronic component base and radio electronics for 2008 – 2015 years”. Roskosmos, the Ministry of Education and Science, FSTEC and Rosatom are part of the state customers of the program.

The main conclusion of the auditors of the Accounts Chamber who checked last year, as carried out by the Federal Target Program, is that its implementation in terms of the production of the electronic component base allowed for a revival of production. “The values ​​of the target indicator and indicators of the implementation of the program’s measures, set up for 2010 – 2012 years, have been largely achieved,” said Sergey Agaptsov, reporting on the results of the audit. He explained that the technological level of 2010 nanometers electronics was mastered in 130, and 2011 nanometers in 90. It is assumed that by the year 2015 45 nanometers will be conquered. At the same time, it was noted in the verification materials that the reduction in the gap with world centers, which was 2005 – 18 years in 20, is unacceptably slow.

According to Sergey Agaptsov, the volume of federal budget funds allocated for capital investments for a large number of facilities, which are planned for reconstruction and technical re-equipment, does not allow to replace obsolete equipment with a high degree of wear with modern ones. “In accordance with the program in 2010 – 2012, 114 billion rubles were planned for the reconstruction and technical re-equipment of 15 facilities at the expense of the federal budget. At the same time, the minimum amount of capital investments in a specified period per object is 10 million rubles, and the maximum - 730 million rubles, which on average gives about 130 million rubles, ”Agaptsov said. Thus, as in the case of the first attempt to revive the industry, the main obstacle was the loss of control. “The results of the control measures show the imbalance of the system of planning and coordination of work performed, as well as deficiencies in the project management program. All this creates the risk of failing to achieve the final results, ”concludes the auditor of the Accounts Chamber.

Electronics mishapsAlready in 2011, it was clear that the Federal Target Program “Development of the electronic component base and radio electronics on 2008 – 2015 years” was doomed to failure because of the competitiveness principle that was absurd. This prompted Valery Yazev, then the deputy chairman of the State Duma, to hold parliamentary hearings on the theme “On legislative support of the development of the electronic industry”. In particular, he drew the attention of the government to the fact that about 2500 organizations are engaged in the development and production of electronics in Russia. But the products of many of them are simply unable to compete with foreign counterparts. “The main signs of the decline of domestic electronics are obvious: the production activities of most enterprises in the electronics industry are small-scale and focused on“ niche ”segments of the domestic market. Even in newly developed domestic models of weapons, military and special equipment, up to 70 percent of electronic components are foreign, ”said Valery Yazev.

Gulyaypole, into which the industry has turned, left Russian companies without resource and raw material supplies. The market for the extraction and processing of rare earth metals (REM) is actually monopolized by China with its well-structured management system. Prices for rare-earth metals for the Russian electrical industry have recently increased many times over. “It’s not to say that the industry is completely deprived of the state’s attention,” the vice speaker emphasized. - 2008 billion rubles were allocated for the development of electronic component base and radio electronics for 2015 – 187 (including 110 billion rubles from the federal budget). Electronic industry organizations are involved in the implementation of the federal target programs Global Navigation System, Development of Television and Radio Broadcasting in the Russian Federation, etc. However, cash infusions are unable to change the structure of the industry and cope with its main problems.

Management optimization proposals have been under discussion for a decade. The need to recreate the Ministry of Electronic Industry is obvious. But the discussion that unfolded at the Expert Council meeting showed that the competition between departments and large structures for the opportunity to steer the industry and straddle budgetary flows is not over. Arseny Brykin, Deputy General Director of Ruselectronics, on strategic planning and implementation of state programs, tried to resolve the issue at least a decade ago. “We consider it right to define a single body that will coordinate and lead the management process in terms of the state redistribution of resources. This should be the Ministry of Industry and Trade with full authority to this effect, including the development of an electronic component base, ”Brykin said. At the same time, he had to express one more, in general, an obvious idea: the head institute of the Ministry of Industry and Trade on the electronic component base - FSUE “MNIIRIP” should develop a program for its creation, linking it with the necessary technologies and materials.

But as it turned out, even at the Expert Council there is no consensus on the determination of the governing body. Thus, the executive secretary of the radio-electronic industry section, professor of the Russian Academy of National Economy and Public Administration under the President of the Russian Federation, Svetlana Boshno, suggested lowering the level of decision-making in the field of industry management.

The logic is as follows. The government is a very busy body. It may be limited to a list with specific component names. Manufacturers are guided by such legal acts as government regulations, instructions and rules. These documents are issued by different departments. Svetlana Boshno proposed to write down in a number of norms that decisions are made not by the Ministry of Industry and Trade, but by a federal executive authority authorized by the government.

How much more time will it take for the electronics to find the steering wheel and sail? The answer to this question for most professionals is obvious. Best of all, he was formulated by the economist Mikhail Delyagin: during Soviet times, models for eliminating devastation were invented and tested. They are waiting for their application.

Plus status

The import substitution program cannot be executed without determining the status of the domestic manufacturer of electronic products. It is necessary for two reasons - for obtaining loans and for preferences when participating in competitions. Pavel Kutsko, Deputy Director of the Radioelectronic Industry Department of the Ministry of Industry and Trade, says that the issue is under consideration. The official has high hopes for a series of consultations that Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev plans to conduct with specialists at the Zelenograd “Micron”. A wide range of issues on the development of mechanisms to support domestic producers will be considered. “The possibility of separating the production of microcircuits in a special economic zone and specific preferences to ensure that the domestic market is filled with domestic products is being considered. First of all, we are talking about universal electronic cards, passport, visa and transport documents, ”explained Pavel Kutsko. The representative of the Ministry of Industry and Trade believes that import substitution should not be complete and efforts should be focused on creating the minimum required component base range, which will allow to design and create any class of electronic equipment. “Based on the fact that in the next two to three years, the industry will be given the task of ensuring import substitution, a number of proposals have been put forward for additional funding for these works. It may be necessary to accelerate the introduction of the opportunities that are inherent in the existing programs to increase funding in 2015 – 2017, ”says Pavel Kutsko. Great hopes are pinned on the upcoming government decree. The document entitled “The procedure for selecting, evaluating and subsidizing research and production tools” must be approved by the end of the year. It is also planned to form five subprograms in the civilian sector of the radio-electronic industry.

Ministry of Defense Armaments Department Assistant Vladimir Orlov notes that there is no need to take overlapping documents: “There is a remarkable government decree of the Russian Federation No. 813 from December 26 2006 of the year“ On Additional Requirements for Participants to Place Orders for Defense and Country Security ” There you need to enter the norm that preference is given to enterprises that have the status of a domestic manufacturer. ” However, the question arises: who will assign such a status? “This problem is already 15 years old. Various documents were accepted, but the matter stands still. There are Roskosmos, Rosatom and the Ministry of Industry and Trade. Each has its own sector, its own requirements, and there is no universal tool for determining status, ”states Vladimir Orlov. You can, of course, be limited to enterprises of strategic importance. But what then to do, for example, with small and medium business? Its enterprises are not under the jurisdiction of departments and ministries, they have practically no chance of winning contests.

At the Russia Calling Forum, German Gref said that the idea of ​​import substitution was inadequate, as if he had forgotten that, having led the Ministry of Economic Development and Trade for five years, he had done a lot to turn domestic electronics into bedding for imports. In Russia, it was not possible to build a single enterprise of such magnitude as proposed by Zhores Alferov. Note that the Nobel laureate was trying to realize his idea at the very time when German Gref reigned in economic development and trade. Unlike the ex-minister, blinkered by market ideologems, his German colleagues understood that what matters is not what and how, but who. It is unlikely that Zhores Alferov, heading the project in Shuvalov, would have allowed it to spend funds so inefficiently, as this, according to Gref, is being done in the federal program.

Hostages of contests and staff shortages

According to Evgeny Serebrennikov, First Deputy Chairman of the Council of the Federation Committee on Defense and Security, the proposal to give a preference to manufacturers of domestic equipment is generally correct. But there are practical problems. We are talking about regional programs, such as, for example, “Smart and Safe City”. As a rule, for tenders of this level are not exposed to individual elements of the equipment, and integrated integrated solutions, consisting of products of different nomenclature and complexity. And it may happen that, conditionally, the 100 denominations in the lot will be 10 domestic, and 20 or 40 - foreign. “How preferences will work in this design is a big question. And it is unlikely that anyone will refrain from circumventing this preference and pushing through equipment that goes without domestic counterparts, ”says Yevgeny Serebrennikov.

But the main problem of the industry remains training. In all forums devoted to the problems of the development of the defense industry, it is proposed to attract young specialists to enterprises as an alternative to serving in the army. But at the Expert Council meeting it turned out that our best universities prepare specialists not for the domestic defense industry, but for competitors abroad.

Arseny Brykin, Deputy General Director of Ruselectronics, on strategic development and implementation of state programs, believes that even if enterprises manage to deliver imported equipment in some sophisticated way and mount it with the help of foreign experts, there will still be a big problem for its effective use. Most of the domestic electronics engineers were trained in the Soviet period, and they are unable to work with a completely different type of equipment. For young people, this is also a problem, because such equipment did not exist in university laboratories, or it only recently appeared.

“At one of the meetings, I told the head of the Ministry of Education and Science Dmitry Livanov that the idea of ​​achieving the entry of 15 universities in Russia into the best hundred of the world’s is good, but it turns out that graduates of regional institutes work at defense companies. Moscow and St. Petersburg mainly train employees for our foreign competitors. It remains for us to be content with the fact that the children do not complete their education in a systematic way, but through some form of post-graduate education on super-modern equipment that can break if they are not handled properly, ”Arseny Brykin complains. According to him, the planning system, according to which young people come to budget places in order to return to the industry, is stalled. Basic educational standards do not at all take into account the needs of enterprises, which need not a separate group of specialties, but a wide range of professionals. “If we do not make changes to the legislation, this mess will go on and on.” “Brains” will continue to leak, and we will fill our enterprises with mediocrity, ”summarizes Arseny Brykin.
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  1. +6
    23 October 2014 18: 41
    Solid problems, but in any case they must be solved if we want to go in the category of self-sufficient powers.
    1. +7
      23 October 2014 19: 31
      what you want is a "real time" fifth column. This is our "optimization of the control system"
      1. 0
        23 October 2014 22: 59
        I’m trying to change the work of a process engineer for the production of electronics, but ... Zp below 45 is not at all interesting. Our diby head is so greedy that the prices of electronics production are not at all market and external organizations are not ready to pay that much ... So we stick out in a small series for Russian Railways and a little military ... PPC
        Today, the mood has already risen when 1300 boards with 50 elements each were installed. So it would be every day ((
    2. Denis fj
      +1
      23 October 2014 22: 50
      For the first part, plus, but for the second .....
      I climbed to the top with Sherpas, these are people who give you the right to a leader and follow you, carry you, provide you with a Summit.
      There is one cool way to evaluate what a person is worth, assemble a team of 5-7 people and send them to climb some simple peak like the Communism Peak, and Kazbek will do. Of course, you need to give basic training, hiking in the mountains.
      But!
      How great all sides of the human soul crawl to the surface, weakness, cowardice, meanness, betrayal, and on the other hand willpower, nobility, mutual assistance, restraint, self-control ....
      Eh, youth, how much was all ...
      So, I would create a whole system of selection of young people from whom in the future it would be possible, without fear of mistakes, to form the elite.
      And not Valdai with his get-together, but a bunch of psychologists, the selection system and the "stigma" of a person, you or you have the right.
      Well, as for microelectronics, in my opinion here we have flown, lagged behind forever, so you just need to buy technology and production and move on.
      This technical revolution passed us by, as it is not sad.
      But you can’t give up, it’s not our way.
      1. SVR
        SVR
        -5
        23 October 2014 23: 42
        Do you propose to select young people among the "Putin generation" - which cannot write without mistakes, not to mention something else? They are all ready to become officials - they cannot work. Then Russia will end for sure!
      2. SVR
        SVR
        -1
        23 October 2014 23: 42
        Do you propose to select young people among the "Putin generation" - which cannot write without mistakes, not to mention something else? They are all ready to become officials - they cannot work. Then Russia will end for sure!
      3. 0
        24 October 2014 22: 15
        Well, as for microelectronics, in my opinion here we have flown, lagged behind forever, so you just need to buy technology and production and move on.
        This technical revolution passed us by, as it is not sad.


        This was told to us in the very beginning of the 80s.
        The workshop manager told us something like this (the workshop produced 573 series of chips) when we young specialists tried to say something about production in Japan and Taiwan (production in China and Malaysia was not yet a class). And I assure you that the production of microelectronics has become even worse.
        Even then, a proposal was made to invest in promising developments in the technology of microelectronics production, so that in 10 years it would be at the world technological level, since at that time we were lagging behind specifically and without any chance of success. But at the next stage of technological development, we would be on the first roles (in the sense of producing microelectronic components), until the advent of the Z80 processor, which revolutionized the production of household personal computers, it was another 5 years (the fundamental science, as it may seem strange, was very high level, which can not be said about the implementation).
        There was no sense in reaching that level of technology, it was necessary to make a breakthrough in technology through a step (well, if we had caught up with them, and again they had already gone ahead). But alas, alas, nothing of the kind has been done, and we just now disentangle the results of the decisions made at that time.
      4. 0
        26 January 2022 12: 30
        In the book Starship Troopers and the film, people who served in the army received citizenship, the idea is not bad - not with citizenship, but for example with holding certain positions, I myself did not serve, but the idea is good - the system (state) should protect and strengthen itself.
    3. SVR
      SVR
      -2
      23 October 2014 23: 37
      This is not a problem, but stupidity on a state scale. More precisely, bribery of the government in order to inflict the greatest possible harm both in the economy and in defense. Something cannot be decided with this government; the one who pays the most is decided! Therefore, the very danger of Russia comes from our government
    4. SVR
      SVR
      -2
      23 October 2014 23: 37
      This is not a problem, but stupidity on a state scale. More precisely, bribery of the government in order to inflict the greatest possible harm both in the economy and in defense. Something cannot be decided with this government; the one who pays the most is decided! Therefore, the very danger of Russia comes from our government
  2. +13
    23 October 2014 18: 47
    Effective managers, however, will not be given to others, and I won’t give a damn to others, they don’t know and can’t damn it, but those who know and can, with envy, are not allowed to do
  3. +5
    23 October 2014 18: 50
    Well, what they wanted. For so many years the industry was ruined
    1. +7
      23 October 2014 18: 58
      The issue of supporting domestic electronics manufacturers was discussed.

      Yes, it is no longer necessary to support, but to revive from scratch at least the enterprises of Soviet electronics.
      1. 225chay
        0
        23 October 2014 21: 17
        Quote: Iline
        Yes, it is no longer necessary to support, but to revive from scratch at least the enterprises of Soviet electronics.


        unfortunately there are practically none ... with the rarest exception
    2. 225chay
      +5
      23 October 2014 21: 16
      Quote: lav67
      Well, what they wanted. For so many years the industry was ruined


      semiconductor production is destroyed, and equipment is stolen, stolen and handed over to scrap.
      Chubai nanotechnology obviously will not revive electronics
  4. 0
    23 October 2014 18: 50
    Something like "The plaster is being removed, the client is leaving"
  5. +2
    23 October 2014 18: 52
    Until the thunder strikes the man will not cross himself.
  6. +14
    23 October 2014 18: 53
    "Hostages of competitions and staff shortage" ... we are hostages of greed and incompetence of modern officials.
    A legacy of the Soviet Union’s intellectual property was sold 20 years ago ... for a penny.
    Then everyone was proud, the West ... the advanced West to learn from us ... in particular, to work with silicon, with the basis of all microcircuits ... which provided the West proper with a quantum leap in electronics, on our Soviet technologies.
    1. +7
      23 October 2014 19: 23
      I don’t know the Lord, how are you doing with logic, in my unenlightened view, I need it as under Stalin (during the development of the atomic bomb) - one person with general authority who creates a team for himself and revives the industry. After all, the nomenclature of the necessary products (at least for the military needs is known), what is needed to produce them: equipment, technologies, people, future research centers, in order to improve all this, what the problem is, talk more and more. And don’t hope for private individuals, let private traders build stadiums for the future of football, the state should deal with this matter and not keep money in American bonds.
      1. +4
        23 October 2014 20: 09
        Yah-yah, "varov14", natural! Yes + + + + +
        In this case, it is no longer possible to rely on any market laws and mechanisms for one simple reason - LATE. Now we need a BREAKTHROUGH and a BREAKTHROUGH, I cannot put it otherwise. Only the lazy one does not know that Jobs and Wozniak (who do not know - the founders of "Apple Inc") made their first BURST in the garage. This is the American Dream! But no, not everything is so simple ... THE BREAKTHROUGH was already later, according to all the wolfish laws of capitalism.
        The disposition is obvious: Russia is opposed not just by groups of some countries, BUT - by international corporations, and in these conditions it is almost impossible to create something on the way in the garage "on your knees". Conclusion: what, nafig, market - you need a plan and centralization. IMHO hi
    2. +4
      23 October 2014 19: 59
      I agree, then galium arsenide was already mastered. Now most of the microwave crystals on it are made, but only under the Western brand. They've been breaking microelectronics for 20 years, and now papers come from the Moscow Region - replace whatever you want. And we still need to knock out documentation from our manufacturer, and I'm not talking about demo boards.
      But the Chinese are happy. For some technologies, they are already competing with the West. If the Yankees do not cover their sanctions, they will lose the entire market. All production in Asia, and even at night the factories do not stop, they drive to the left and put whatever label you want.
    3. +1
      23 October 2014 19: 59
      I agree, then galium arsenide was already mastered. Now most of the microwave crystals on it are made, but only under the Western brand. They've been breaking microelectronics for 20 years, and now papers come from the Moscow Region - replace whatever you want. And we still need to knock out documentation from our manufacturer, and I'm not talking about demo boards.
      But the Chinese are happy. For some technologies, they are already competing with the West. If the Yankees do not cover their sanctions, they will lose the entire market. All production in Asia, and even at night the factories do not stop, they drive to the left and put whatever label you want.
  7. hard
    -1
    23 October 2014 18: 56
    Incidentally, J. Alferov in one of the programs mentioned that Fursenko was his deputy at the institute. And quite warmly responded about him. Strange somehow, isn't it? Your opinion, gentlemen?
    1. +1
      23 October 2014 19: 00
      Full W ....
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Cenij150814
      +1
      23 October 2014 19: 11
      Quote: hard
      Your opinion, gentlemen?

      They asked for it themselves !! I've got k to any Evreyu- not trust!
    4. +3
      23 October 2014 21: 32
      Quote: hard
      Incidentally, J. Alferov in one of the programs mentioned that Fursenko was his deputy at the institute. And quite warmly responded about him. Strange somehow, isn't it? Your opinion, gentlemen?

      As the saying goes, if you want to know a person, put him in some kind of boss. The boss and deputy are quite a different psychology, not every good deputy makes an equally good boss.
    5. +1
      24 October 2014 08: 07
      hard
      Incidentally, J. Alferov in one of the programs mentioned that Fursenko was his deputy at the institute. And quite warmly responded about him.

      And who said that Gref, Chubais or Litvinov are boobies of the king of heaven No. Enemies are often very smart. The evidence in our recent history is more than enough. hi
  8. +10
    23 October 2014 18: 56
    About the fact that it is impossible to work with modern equipment - a lie. It is much easier to manage and operate than the old one. In the West, too, the level of education is falling. And the software of technological installations for microelectronics is designed for a student of the 8th grade of a Soviet school.
    Its service is also regulated to every comma. Now there are not enough technologists who understand how to build a chain of manufacturing a device (chip). But this is also solvable. In the USSR, laboratories existed for this, in which the enemy chip was "undressed", and a copy of it appeared in the series six months later. But the people who rule modern electronics are very far from the "land" and are very fond of money. Investment in something scientific, but incomprehensible is desirable. We miss Silicon Valley. There firms of 5-15 people do a lot of things without much investment. And by the way, their equipment is not the most advanced. Because they buy on Ebee, for their own.
    1. +5
      23 October 2014 19: 33
      With the current mess from our "Silicon Valley" another Skolkovo will be built.
      1. +4
        23 October 2014 20: 16
        Russia has its own silicon valley - Zelenograd. They create modern processors. But the owner there is not Chubais, so Zelenograd has long suffered from pests such as Chubais.
      2. +4
        23 October 2014 20: 23
        I had to work at a factory where, in the absence of Silicon Valley in the USSR, the designers created their microprocessors that were not even used on supercomputers, only in military equipment. So many military factories can restore all this, but they need money and modern equipment. And while all sorts of Chubais and the like think not about the homeland, but about the accounts in the West, we cannot revive this electronics industry on the right scale.
        1. SVR
          SVR
          +1
          23 October 2014 23: 50
          To talk about a breakthrough and revival, you need Chubais, Serdyukov, etc. on lasopovat send, and restore confidence in the state. And when Chubais rule, there will be no sense.
        2. SVR
          SVR
          0
          23 October 2014 23: 50
          To talk about a breakthrough and revival, you need Chubais, Serdyukov, etc. on lasopovat send, and restore confidence in the state. And when Chubais rule, there will be no sense.
    2. +2
      23 October 2014 20: 10
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      In the USSR, laboratories existed for this, in which the enemy chip was "undressed", and a copy of it appeared in the series six months later.

      Don't tell fairy tales! After all, the point is not that you can see (?) In the "stripped chip", but in technology and equipment !!! The Germans also looked at the captured T-34s, but could not make a copy. And the Core i7-3770K chip contains an integrated HD Graphics 4000 graphics core and
      1,4 billion transistors in total. , this is not a dozen gears ...
      1. +2
        24 October 2014 06: 08
        Sorry!
        Are we fools?
        The goals were not set specific tasks and terms, on pain of "execution", and the controllers are useless, in the Chubais type. Sucked to the budget like a leech - we know what and why the GDP does not touch it.
        Yes, and God bless him ...
        Harm began to shake other leeches, maybe it will come to him ... not the time.
        The main thing is that the people support a little GDP, so that there is no unrest.
    3. +3
      23 October 2014 20: 13
      You cannot buy American military developments on your Ebey. Recently (a few days ago) our "agent" was detained in the USA while trying to smuggle American special equipment. He faces life or email. chair, depending on the state. And firms of 15-20 people cannot create anything, tk. we need experimental factories for the production of military electronic equipment. Comprehensive tests are needed, and a company of 20 people does not have that kind of money to work out this electronics as part of combat equipment.
    4. Ev58
      +1
      24 October 2014 09: 19
      It is true that working with modern equipment is not difficult - I agree. I remember the times you talk about when copies of imported ERIs or whole series were created (reproduced). However, the one who follows will never be the first, he will repeat the achievements and the trajectory of the master or teacher that he follows. A qualitative breakaway is possible on the basis of our own fundamental developments and technologies. In addition, the government is able to "allocate funds", but is not familiar in detail on what and how the allocated amount should be disposed of, and is not familiar with the problems and needs of the industry's enterprises. What integrated circuits are needed, with what output characteristics and parameters of resistance to external influencing factors; what components, materials, paint and varnish and galvanic coatings are needed; what characteristics should these materials, varnishes, compounds, coatings, etc. have? In addition (I think it is very important), one should pay attention to the gaps in the field of standardization that formed during the total collapse of the country under the auspices of "perestroika". One should not stupidly copy Western standards, but their positive developments, including in terms of requirements, control methods and the structure of regulatory documents, should be taken as a basis. "Love" for gold, for which not only the West is famous, is capable of turning any, the most noble undertakings into a routine without achieving the required result. We need to start with the development of our own science, industry and technology.
  9. +4
    23 October 2014 18: 59
    To me these overseas hostesses the day before yesterday refused to sell components ... laughing By the way, the domestic MTsST-R1000 and MTsST-R500 which are constantly being trumpeted, could not be found even for large grandmas. crying In general, all these years it was necessary not to scratch with the language there, but to deal with at least Soviet blood clots that occupied the offices of the main "members" at enterprises ... wink
  10. +3
    23 October 2014 19: 00
    Idiots should not be allowed to guide in any industry in the country ... wherever you throw, well, everywhere a wedge. And yet officials, this weakest and most treacherous link in Russia was eternal - they send their children abroad to study at the state expense, and then leave them there; their short-sighted policy does not care about the drain of smart brains over the hill, nor do they care about attracting such brains from behind the hill to us. Well, at least we studied the methods of the United States to attract scientists to their country. Well, really should be Putin everywhere? Well, after all, it will not be enough for all the problems of Russia, bureaucrats, start working.
    1. +2
      23 October 2014 19: 53
      Right now, everyone will quit and start working. You need to drive up and put people energetic, competent.
      1. 0
        23 October 2014 20: 41
        Quote: SAM 5
        You need to drive up and put people energetic, competent.

        You think there’s not energetic sitting there - what energetic they are! Only their energy is aimed at satisfying personal needs!
        1. 0
          23 October 2014 21: 49
          Quote: Bayonet
          Quote: SAM 5
          You need to drive up and put people energetic, competent.

          You think there’s not energetic sitting there - what energetic they are! Only their energy is aimed at satisfying personal needs!

          There is such a term - "militant mediocrity" ...
    2. +4
      23 October 2014 20: 31
      Remember how the cook scolded the cat who stole the meat, and the cat: "And Vaska listens, but eats." Aha bureaucrats after your words will immediately start running and work not for their own pocket, but for the benefit of the Motherland. A change of order is needed. Either EMPIRE, as under Napoleon, or SOCIALISM, as under Stalin. Both of them forced their countries to rise and arm to the teeth without anyone's help. But only with the help of repression against the 5th column, against traitors and spies.
      1. -2
        23 October 2014 20: 41
        Quote: Алексей_К
        A change of order is needed. Or EMPIRE


        In the short term - I agree, the effect is possible. Well, then what? War, collapse, confrontation?
        1. +2
          23 October 2014 21: 04
          But do not conquer others. We must force to reckon with us. Napoleon made a mistake, considering himself the emperor of Europe and Asia. But Stalin did not conquer anyone, he retained what he got, only in vain did he join Western Ukraine, such a fascist infection turned out to be. Stalin did not even make a claim to Finland and Poland - they say they are part of the Russian Empire under Nicholas II.
        2. 0
          23 October 2014 22: 02
          Quote: studentmati
          In the short term - I agree, the effect is possible. Well, then what? War, collapse, confrontation?


          Quote: Алексей_К
          Precisely, the traitors of Russia did not like my comment.


          I see for sure, I didn’t like it. Waiting for arguments, gentlemen, opponents!
      2. +4
        23 October 2014 20: 59
        Precisely, the traitors of Russia did not like my comment.
        1. +1
          23 October 2014 21: 06
          Quote: Алексей_К
          Precisely, the traitors of Russia did not like my comment.


          We’ll wait, maybe he will show up.
      3. 225chay
        0
        23 October 2014 21: 24
        Quote: Алексей_К
        EMPIRE, as under Napoleon, or SOCIALISM, as under Stalin. Both of them forced their countries to rise and arm to the teeth without any help. But only with the help of repression against the 5th column, against traitors and spies.


        + 150000! Definitely! But sticks clung to power ...
    3. 0
      23 October 2014 21: 43
      Quote: Anchonsha
      Idiots should not be allowed to lead in any industry in the country ... Well, at least we have studied the methods of the United States to attract scientists to their country ...

      Your first suggestion and a no brainer, the whole question is in implementation.
      And the US experience is only suitable for the USA itself. They can afford to create conditions that no one else could have. No one else (even the EU) has such a printing press, and this is the main thing in their experience.
    4. 0
      23 October 2014 22: 12
      Quote: Anchonsha
      Well, at least we studied the methods of the United States to attract scientists to their country.

      Why study here?
      Incentives are known:
      - work in the specialty (for a good specialist this is important),
      - decent salary and
      - comfortable living conditions (medicine, everyday life, rest, roads, service ...).

      With us, with all of the above - "byada"!

      True, in the Union, at one time, there were also effective "managers" who used the so-called "sharashka" - scientific and technical collective farms controlled by the OGPU to quickly solve the assigned tasks, to dispose of highly qualified "pests" in the interests of solving the tasks of the military-industrial complex.
  11. +2
    23 October 2014 19: 01
    Only the creation of an analogue of "Silicon Valley" in Russia can give rise to the development of its own microelectronics as an industry. The hope for foreign components, taking into account the sanctions imposed against the domestic military-industrial complex, may not come true. Investments and joint projects with South Korea, Japan, Malaysia in the development and production of products with a topological size of 90 nm, as in developed countries, are very much needed.
    1. Alf
      +2
      23 October 2014 19: 13
      Quote: raid14
      Only the creation of an analogue of the "Silicon Valley" in Russia can give rise to the development of its own microelectronics as an industry.

      They created Skolkovo as an analogue of Silicon Valley. So what ? Where is the result? Silence...
      Now the main ideologist has started singing that it would be necessary to sell Skolkovo to private owners, as a more effective manager. As a result, hell will be poured in. He knows how many billions, they quickly drove to foreigners and left with naked x ...
      1. 0
        23 October 2014 19: 33
        In Russia, they harness for a long time, but they travel quickly, God forbid they give birth to something there. Only, only to the "big heads" in the Kremlin got it that the jokes are over and the country is on the verge of an armed conflict or world war.
        1. +1
          23 October 2014 19: 43
          For Russia to have electronics, it must be in demand. for example, most of the staff are in Moscow and St. Petersburg, have you seen the cost of renting land there?
          Now think about why many expensive things in America were created and are being created in garages, campuses or houses ...

          In the Russian Federation, it is enough to make a microscopic bet on the meter in unused rooms for development and research in terms of electronics. To organize at the state level an advisory council where we could contact developers in case of problems for consultation.
          And to make in each region twice a year the so-called artisanal industrial exhibitions at which ideas and licenses for their implementation as under the tsar would not be bought ...
          Everything else is theft of funds, and they will not lead to any result.
          1. 0
            23 October 2014 20: 51
            You've probably heard about free energy generators (CE), this is information distributed on the Internet. So, the inventor of his generator - Brovin, and in Georgia - Kapanadze, there is also in Ukraine, they write that they are not perceived by the POWER. Free electricity from the surrounding area - this suggests that, for the most part, the gas and oil industries are not needed. This is a rework (complete) of the electricity supply in the country. Hydro, nuclear and other power plants will no longer be needed. Power lines. You cannot imagine that if, at least, one light bulb is lit in the entrance without electricity supply, it means a bunch of oligarchs will be left without profits. And this is already a reality, judging by the numerous videos. But other people do not allow these inventions to materialize. Look "Bedini's perpetual motion machine" is already on sale on the Internet. What's the use?
            So your suggestions are doubtful. When the issue of the disappearance of profit is decided, the inventor is more likely to disappear.
            1. +1
              23 October 2014 22: 24
              Sounds like from the alchemy section ...
        2. +1
          23 October 2014 20: 36
          Chubais in Skolkovo - he is unlikely to be the representative of Russia, who travels fast. He is for the collapse of Russia.
        3. +1
          23 October 2014 21: 57
          Quote: raid14
          In Russia, they harness for a long time, but go fast ...

          The main thing is that the "horse" does not grow old and does not die while it is being harnessed ...
    2. +2
      23 October 2014 20: 34
      The military will not trust the creation of military electronics in any Russian silicone valley. Traitors like Chubais will immediately give all the secrets to the Americans. We need closed enterprises with 100% control that secrets do not float away.
      1. +1
        23 October 2014 20: 58
        ABOUT! Traitors to Russia began to pass. I do not like the truth.
  12. sazhka4
    +1
    23 October 2014 19: 05
    The redhead will create and pass the nano where it should. And it follows to Dimka-iPhone .. And he again thinks to move the clock hands. And the redhead will again ask for a hundred lard. The circle is closed .. Urya !!!
  13. +5
    23 October 2014 19: 06
    The question is much more complicated. In addition to everything else that is indicated in the article, there are no consumers of elemental-comonet base. In addition to military equipment. We do not produce televisions, we do not produce telephones, and we do not produce computers. The remaining needs are scanty. And with a game of catch-up, there is no chance to enter the world market with domestic microelectronics. Looking for innovation. If we continue to charge innovative breakthroughs not to scientists, but to Chubais, then the result is predictable. Indeed, who is Alferov? And Chubais is a quantity! Not replaceable.
    1. Alf
      +2
      23 October 2014 19: 17
      Quote: Stinger
      We do not produce phones

      Why not produce? Recently, joy was full of pants-created your own, domestic iPhone. The truth turned out that in it is ours only packaging. The price at which they decided to sell is known. And the silence is on sale ... No one saw him, didn’t hear him and the managers in the salons make surprised eyes: they didn’t, they didn’t see, they didn’t hear. But the grandmothers are mastered and the joyful iPhone drew once again on the screen.
      1. +1
        23 October 2014 19: 36
        There are still Russian companies that, as it were, make phones, they design themselves, and they produce them already in China.
      2. +1
        23 October 2014 19: 49
        It is sold in some stores and online. Yotafon called. He held it in his hands. I did not wish. Price 24 TR like. Not cheap.
    2. +2
      23 October 2014 20: 54
      You do not see this on the shelves of "western" stores in Russia of our products. And there are telephones and televisions, there are other household appliances. Feel free to use a search engine on the Internet.
  14. +4
    23 October 2014 19: 23
    It's a shame to read, "and the cart" - as they say, "and now there." A red thief can only saw and divide. If now we do not take emergency measures in relation to his kind, then we will not wait for a "bright" tomorrow.
  15. +1
    23 October 2014 19: 24
    All of us in the world continue to live according to the "big house" theory.
    Large and small states strive to concentrate their forces and means in their hands, not allowing rivals to drain their minds. But the more confrontation occurs, the more chaotic fermentation of minds in the world will occur. But this has a plus in the rivalry between more developed and less developed states. Thus, giving rise to progressive development of the entire world as a whole. This process can hardly be stopped by issuing certain decrees allowing to restrain this process within one taken state. I do not think that this process can be stopped by playing on the personal mercantile interests of a person, especially of learned minds, this is not the kind of contingent that can be lured by "carrot". Yes, you can and "whip" - an example of Nazi Germany, work behind barbed wire.
    You can talk for a long time on this topic.
    Only one thing is clear what is needed IDEAaround which minds could be concentrated.
  16. 4445333
    +1
    23 October 2014 19: 31
    But what about REP electronic warfare in the RF Armed Forces, it’s not clear whether there is electronics or not.
  17. +1
    23 October 2014 19: 36
    Of course, there are some. And maybe pretty decent samples. but it’s one thing to create the same processors with a circulation of one hundred copies, and another thing to drive in thousandths of copies.
  18. +2
    23 October 2014 19: 39
    In general, all the problems that Russia is now facing come from people who have somehow stuck to the "pipe" when they fuck, all that interests them is the unhindered sale of oil and gas through the pipe, and crediting money to the account. Everything else does not bother them at all, for the sake of this they drain everyone and everything, they agree with anyone, the main thing is that the pipe works and Washington does not get angry. With such an "elite" it's not like building something new, just preserving the country and that's the problem. They do not care what the place where the oil comes from will be called, they and their children live in the west, and there, at least an ideal Ural, at least the eighteenth republic of North Siberia, no one cares, especially whether some people live there or have been killed for a long time. Whether there is electronics there, no, iPhones are still brought from another place.
    1. 0
      23 October 2014 20: 19
      All right - IDEA - for a small part of people, I will not go into particular and what part ...
  19. 0
    23 October 2014 20: 02
    Already in 2011, it was clear that the federal target program “Development of the electronic component base and radio electronics for 2008-2015” was doomed to failure due to the absurdity ..
    Because of the theft of officials brought to the point of absurdity and the stupidity of the direct executors ... and the impossibility of "sawing" significant funds, in the absence of such.
  20. 0
    23 October 2014 20: 04
    I’m wondering, on our new SU-34-35 whose microelectronics? And on missiles that cling to them on the wing? Next, the S-400 system, because there are a bunch of microcircuits and TP elements where these elements are made?
    okay, old systems like S-300 or mine Topol, there are microcircuits made back in the USSR, and in new ones? and new submarines that were laid down or are now, there are thousands of microcircuits there! Somewhere I came across an article for a long time, like somewhere a plant in the Moscow region produces chips and microcircuits, as well as in Belarus they are sort of cooking up something.
    1. 0
      23 October 2014 20: 06
      Basically, TI and MC ... In Minsk, the Integral plant still exists, and in the Russian Federation there is a huge list of elements for import substitution, only almost all items in it are designated as OKR. It is almost impossible to find anything of value from microprocessors or microcontrollers with peripherals, despite the fact that Sparc and ARM drawings are sold quite cheaply and to everyone.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. 225chay
      -1
      23 October 2014 21: 35
      Quote: Sledgehammer
      I’m wondering, on our new SU-34-35 whose microelectronics? And on missiles that cling to them on the wing? Next, the S-400 system, because there are a bunch of microcircuits and TP elements where these elements are made?


      Avionics use Israeli ...
      Well, the rest is probably from there. Shame!
  21. hard
    +1
    23 October 2014 20: 19
    Quote: Strashila
    Then everyone was proud, the West ... the advanced West to learn from us ... in particular, to work with silicon, with the basis of all microcircuits ... which provided the West proper with a quantum leap in electronics, on our Soviet technologies.

    Serious worship of our creative intelligentsia, scholars, boHems in front of the West. And then as always: look how we can, see what we have, be surprised! And for what? So that John or Kurt pats on the shoulder: "Gut, Ivan, Gut! Karasho!" That's how we waste our everything, in Russian, with soul (inside out, inside out), if only we were recognized, noticed, praised.
  22. 0
    23 October 2014 20: 20
    As I understand the point of the article, the rise of domestic electronics now depends on people,
    who, not seeing personal interest, do not want to do this even at the organizational level.
    Everywhere we need dictatorial methods with the appointment of responsible persons to the final result at each stage of the formation of the organization and production of domestic components.
  23. KAM
    0
    23 October 2014 21: 44
    Unfortunately, we do not have competitive (weight, size, efficiency, etc.) electronics, we did not have and never will. We are left behind forever. We will fight by what is still in the warehouses since the times of the USSR. (Microchips-meter per meter , with handles for carrying)
  24. hard
    0
    23 October 2014 21: 58
    Quote: hard
    Worshiping the West of our creative intelligentsia, scientists, boChem.

    I’m sorry for inadvertently misleading, it’s not about scientists and intelligentsia, but about scientists and intelligentsia. I didn’t want to offend decent people. Sorry. Not everyone is ready to dodge navel before civilizers, there are few, but they exist. A fly in the ointment, as you know, spoils a barrel of honey. Something like that.
  25. 0
    23 October 2014 22: 00
    (IMHO) there is a fairly simple solution how to attract investment in electronics
    To large manufacturers of electronics (engaged in screwdriver assembly in our country) who want to sell electronics in our market in the future, suggest starting to assemble finished products using electronic components manufactured in our country.
    (with gradual bringing, for example, to 95% after 10 years). By analogy with the auto industry.
    It is clear that in modern components we have a lag, i.e. money is needed for the purchase of equipment (imported equipment necessary for the production of components can completely free customs duties) and the launch of factories for their manufacture. Where to get? Component manufacturers can be exempted from most of the taxes (what we have is a miserable amount from them now, and the state is not in a hurry to invest there), but electronics manufacturers need huge investments and a competitive advantage is needed). Completely tax-exempt companies that produce equipment for the production of electronic components and electronics. Those. those that create the equipment for creating the final product.
    Business will come where taxes will not be 50-80%, but 10%.
    To ban, for example, after 3 years on the export of rare earth metals (which are used in electronics) in raw form (as raw materials), and to allow export only in the form of electronic components. The cost of raw materials in the finished product is small, and the cost of the finished component (China made a similar ban at the time). There are not very many raw materials for electronics around the world, but for production it is very necessary. The choice in this case is not great, so far they have not learned how to produce anything from scratch. Do you want to produce something? Come to us, or sit without work.
    If the state does not want to help, it can simply create conditions and not interfere with producers. It is only necessary to create a legislative framework, and do it now, not tomorrow.
    No, of course you can create a ministry, make a bunch of plans. Further to create visibility and shrug, we invested a lot of money, but it doesn’t work out for us, but we try. hi
    1. 0
      24 October 2014 06: 21
      To ban, for example, after 3 years on the export of rare earth metals (which are used in radio electronics) in raw form (as raw materials), and to allow export only in the form of electronic components ...

      no ... there is a double-edged sword
      -It seems to take out -Good
      - it’s not possible to take it out- bad
      This is the effect of attractiveness to the country's raw materials and its further use within the country with the attraction of investments - the effect of "getting on the needle". When producers get involved in the process.
      Sorry for our poverty, what to do.
      So far so, and then all of them up to you - there are their huts.
  26. hard
    0
    23 October 2014 22: 15
    Quote: PENZYAC
    The boss and deputy are quite a different psychology, not every good deputy makes an equally good boss.

    Rather, it’s not a matter of psychology, but of separation of functions. The head can be kind, and the deputy bearer of the function of Cerberus, ready to build in three lines and order to break if necessary, or vice versa. Personal experience (and acquaintances). Taught at the time.
  27. 0
    23 October 2014 22: 48
    Ahhh, well, well :))
    Not only electronics ... There are not enough welders, many more are missing.
    At present, it is not realistic to revive electronics.
    General.
    So far ... So far, the labor of the worker has not been evaluated (in the branches).
    Not a manager, but a worker.
    So far, no perspective and definite meaning in the work has been given.
    And until the people understand that life is ONE for everyone.
    1. 0
      24 October 2014 06: 26
      no, my friend ...
      it does not interfere
  28. +1
    23 October 2014 22: 54
    This is a very important industry, decisions must be made at the government level, and the President should control the implementation.
    The main signs of the decline of domestic electronics are obvious: the production activities of most electronic industry enterprises are small-scale in nature and are focused on “niche” segments of the domestic market.

    For mass production, the civil sector needs to be connected. For example, an enterprise that produces electronic warfare systems will have to produce tomographs, and no worse than foreign analogues. Where market methods do not work, administrative methods should be included. Directors and officials knowing that the civilian sector will be forced to compete with Western manufacturers will treat talented and competent people in a completely different way. In this case, the attitude to science and new developments will also change.
  29. 0
    23 October 2014 23: 14
    Quote: varov14
    as under Stalin - one person with general authority, who creates a team for himself and revives the industry.


    There is safety in numbers. But with the support of (Beria?) Or the presence of a business government (but not Medvedev?), You can try. The necessary resources are in the hands of an honest, trusted specialist. With demand for the result (like Chubais?). And there is a feeling of hopelessness ...
  30. 0
    24 October 2014 05: 47
    Regarding the training of specialists, this is a long-thought-out and solved model:
    - 2 students study at the institute, listening to lectures, passing practice, etc.
    - starting from the 3rd year, he is satisfied with 1/8 - 1/4 rates at a research institute or a specialized enterprise, they are given a supervisor from among the employees, and the university allocates certain days for lectures, and specific days when his students work at the enterprise. The work done at the enterprise is taken into account as a practical course. In this case, the student is fully involved in the production process.
    - over time, the number of hours of lectures decreases and only practice remains at the enterprise, and lectures on Saturdays. for the 6th course, get an independent specialist.
    - a diploma (that of a bachelor, that of a master) is defended solely on the basis of the practical work done by the student, therefore all are protected exceptionally well.
    - at the same time, the student, upon graduation, receives a full-fledged work book with experience in the specialty.

    A very good method. And even if, later, the student decides to work in another field, then it is either the same or very close.
  31. 0
    24 October 2014 12: 54
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    In the USSR, laboratories existed for this, in which the enemy chip was "undressed", and a copy of it appeared in the series six months later.

    I knew such an enterprise. In Japan, the production of semiconductor devices is carried out at sea so that there are fewer impurities in the air. With us, this enterprise was located in a high-rise building right near the railway station. node. The efficiency was appropriate.
    Quote: SVR
    Something cannot be decided with this government; the one who pays the most is decided!

    A friend of mine went to high authorities with a proposal to develop a software package to solve an interesting problem, which I don’t remember exactly. After a while, they called him and asked in plain text which part of the budgetary funds he was ready to unfasten to someone on whom it depended. There were no other questions. My friend decided not to mess.