Military Review

New Ukrainian military industry: assault rifles "Fort-227" and "Fort-228"

145
Over the past few centuries, military equipment and weapons have been constantly evolving. The necessity of having both of them led to repeated technical breakthroughs, new types of offensive weapons were invented, which made it possible to strike at enemy forces from a distance not only hundreds, but thousands of kilometers. However, in the modern world it is impossible to say that individual small weapon It became an anachronism, since remote warfare has an effect only in cases when it comes to the destruction of the enemy’s military and industrial infrastructure, but not at all in manpower.


The main common features of the assault rifles of the new generation is the wide use of light alloys and plastics, which makes it possible to make the weapon much easier and reduce the cost of production. In addition, modern models use collimator and optical sights, a modular design, the ability to install a large range of additional equipment: tactical lights, muzzle and grenade launchers, silencers and laser designators.

Despite the difficult situation, Ukraine does not stand aside from the production of new types of weapons and military equipment. So, in particular, on the official website of the Ukrainian scientific and production association "Fort" there was information about two new variants of Israeli-made assault rifles Galil ACE - "Fort-227" and "Fort-228".

The Ukrainian Fort-227 rifle is similar to the Israeli Galil ACE 22 carbine, and the Fort-228 is Galil ACE 31.

The rifles of the Ukrainian production of the “Fort” family, like the Israeli Galil ACE, is an automatic weapon, which is a kind of a descendant of the Kalashnikov assault rifle.

This family of automatic weapons is characterized by high ergonomics, ease of use and equipment with additional accessories. In addition, Fort-227 and Fort-228 use the most common types of ammunition (5,56 x45, and 7,62 x39 according to NATO standards).

The assault rifles and assault rifles "Fort-227" and "Fort-228" use vapor-automatic equipment with a long stroke gas piston, which is located above the barrel. The receiver has high strength and great resource due to the fact that it is made of steel. The cover of the receiver is also made of steel, and the pistol grip, trigger guard and the neck of the magazine receiver are made of high-strength plastic. The fuse, which is also the mode switch, is duplicated on both sides and makes it possible to make both single shots and automatic fire. To prevent the ingress of dust, foreign objects and dirt into the mechanisms of the weapon, a spring-loaded dustproof shutter is provided, which covers the slot for the handle. The handle itself is on the left side and is connected to the slide frame.

Cartridges are fed from detachable box stores. For each caliber the number of cartridges in the store is different. For millimeter caliber 5,56 - 35 cartridges are provided in the magazine, for 7,62 x39 caliber - 30 cartridges. Automatic shutter lag is provided in the machines. The telescopic plastic butt is adjustable in length, and the rubber damping pad is provided in the 7,62 caliber. As for the sights, the “Fort” rifles provide an adjustable front sight in the earphone and a diopter reversible rear sight, which is installed in the rear of the receiver cover. In addition, "Fort-227", in contrast to the "Fort-228" has brackets for fastening a bayonet-knife.

Rifle "Fort-227" can operate in automatic and semi-automatic mode. At length, it has 760 millimeters with a folded butt and 845 - with the spread out. The length of the barrel is 332 millimeters. The weight of the rifle with full magazine is 4,12 kilograms, with a blank - 3,7 kilograms. This rifle is designed for cartridge 5,56x45 millimeters, has a rate of 700 shots per minute, while the initial speed of the bullet is 850 meters per second. The target range is about 500 meters.

New Ukrainian military industry: assault rifles "Fort-227" and "Fort-228"



Rifle "Fort-228" can also work in both automatic and semi-automatic mode. Has a length of 642 millimeter with a folded butt and 762 - with unfolded. The length of the barrel of this rifle reaches 215 millimeters. Its weight with a loaded magazine is 3,9 kilograms, with an empty one - 3,4 kilograms. The rifle is designed for bullets of caliber 7,62x39 millimeters, in the store - 30 cartridges. The initial speed of a bullet reaches 600 meters per second, while the rate of fire is 650 shots per minute, and the target range is about 800 meters.





Among the advantages of the Ukrainian rifles "Fort-227" and "Fort-228" it should be noted compactness, modern ergonomic design, lightness, the presence of two modes of firing - automatic and semi-automatic. In addition, for more accurate shooting in these variants, an exceptional trigger mechanism is used, which is based on the Galil sniper rifle variant. Both options tested in combat conditions, and have already managed to prove their reliability in emergency, adverse and unforeseen situations. Both rifles can be used at night due to the presence of a convenient mechanical sight and a telescopic butt. Among the advantages should be noted, and ease of maintenance, because for disassembling weapons do not require any additional tools.

Thus, it can be said that the Ukrainian-made assault rifles “Fort-227” and “Fort-228” are a new step in the shooting segment of the Ukrainian defense complex.

In the light of recent events in Ukraine, it becomes quite obvious that, with the active support of Western states and the United States, Ukraine will gradually be included in the scope of the standards of these states, including the military. Therefore, despite the widespread use of caliber cartridges in 5,45x39 and 7,62x39 millimeters in Ukraine, in the near future they will be gradually replaced by cartridges under NATO standards. Both the Fort-227 and Fort-228 rifles are clear proof that these changes have already begun.

Materials used:
http://www.guns.yfa1.ru/ukrainskie-shturmovye-vintovki-fort-227-i-fort-228.html
http://www.fort.vn.ua/produkciya/avtomaticheskoe-oruzhie/shturmovaya-vintovka-fort227.html
http://www.fort.vn.ua/produkciya/avtomaticheskoe-oruzhie/shturmovaya-vintovka-fort228.html
http://www.israel-weapon.com/default.asp?catid=%7B3B7B48F5-CA99-4282-9D7F-13C8CCA5A4DA%7D
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galil_ACE
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  1. Magic archer
    Magic archer 20 October 2014 09: 39 New
    20
    I remember about 10 years ago in the magazine Arms there was an article about Ukrainian small arms. Fort pistols, Goblin and Elf submachine guns were mentioned. And where are they? There was so much pathos in the article. High accuracy, penetrates a bulletproof vest of almost any protection class! As a result, where are they? is that all ?! Now here is a "new" machine. The meaning is what kind of replacement Ak? As if money is in the treasury!
    1. Dmitry 2246
      Dmitry 2246 20 October 2014 10: 09 New
      +7
      Small modernization, picatinny strips and plastic - "a new step".
      They will not be allowed into their NATO market, but they have added calibers to themselves. Golovnyak to manufacturers and suppliers.
    2. Genry
      Genry 20 October 2014 10: 43 New
      +7
      The feeling is that the "Fort" enterprise is a banal company for the smuggling of foreign weapons.

      Here they are Fort-221 (TAR-21 "Tavor" Israel) offer:
      http://www.pzaku.net/homepage/?p=1347
      1. Professor
        Professor 20 October 2014 10: 45 New
        +5
        Quote: Genry
        The feeling is that the "Fort" enterprise is a banal company for the smuggling of foreign weapons.

        Smuggling is when it is illegal. And here everything is honest.
        1. Silumin
          Silumin 21 October 2014 01: 21 New
          +2
          Tell me, do Ukrainians have a screwdriver assembly of your galilov?
        2. Krylovets2000 (HVVKU)
          Krylovets2000 (HVVKU) 2 February 2016 18: 36 New
          +1
          At the exhibition, I met Fort representatives ... under the IWI license they produce their weapons ... it was believed that the price would be lower than the market price from IWI .... it turned out that it was cheaper to buy three or three dollars from the Jews .. That's such honesty in the Ukrainian version ... and the quality no one considered the Ukrainian brand and Galil ...
    3. gross kaput
      gross kaput 20 October 2014 11: 58 New
      +1
      Well, as it were, Fort 12 pistols were manufactured a long time ago and the mutants died before they were born, which, incidentally, was immediately clear.
    4. Juborg
      Juborg 20 October 2014 12: 33 New
      +5
      The machine is good, but where are the pennies !? And whose little factory is this, by chance? They ran out of machine guns, they began to pull out "decryari" from warehouses, and then new machines, and even in processing, which requires the restructuring of the entire production process. A new product is, first of all, a change in the technological process with the reconfiguration of machines, the purchase of new equipment and other things, including the training of individual specialists. In short, it is a very, very expensive undertaking. Where's the pennies?
      1. Igor39
        Igor39 20 October 2014 14: 39 New
        +7
        Che I do not understand Svidomo, "Vatnikovsky" "Kalash", modernized by the Jews, will be adopted? And how will the Svoboda and Batkivshchyna parties view this? I demand in the Verkhovna Rada to consider the question, what is not for patriotism?
    5. Pervusha Isaev
      Pervusha Isaev 20 October 2014 18: 36 New
      +1
      in short the same Kalash ...
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. GRANATE-19
      GRANATE-19 20 October 2014 21: 24 New
      +5
      Quote: Magic Archer
      I remember about 10 years ago in the magazine Weapons there was an article about Ukrainian small arms. Fort pistols, Goblin and Elf submachine guns were mentioned. And where are they?

      In the course of watching a movie, the names were given ...
      And they decided to turn UKRAINE into MORDOR!
      Ukraine - CE EuropeUkraine - CE Europe

      And about ukro-Bandera weapons - fyflo!
      Let them not hope that they will close their own production and they will buy foreign weapons according to the NASraTO standards ...
      true goaltrue goal

      And these boobies they will have on the engine.
      Sincerely, I express my humble opinion.
    8. Kurkin
      Kurkin 21 October 2014 13: 51 New
      +2
      So this is AK, that is, it is his Jewish clone (like his own, technology was again stolen) Galil ASE in various modifications. What, dill themselves could not copy AK to make a number of improvements and release? There is a banal rollback, cut the budget, theft. We also have one figure, the hero of the war with Georgia, who wanted to rearm the bourgeois families on the bourgeois family, to go on the bourgeois Mistrals, and instead to replace the native tigers with infantry for pasta Iveco.
  2. PeaceByForce
    PeaceByForce 20 October 2014 09: 48 New
    +6
    Here, perhaps not Ukrainian production, but "semi-import" - the barrel, the gas piston is imported from Israel, the receiver and everything else is done on the spot. This is how all arms factories work, this allows you to save on transportation. THOSE. a fort alone cannot make a rifle.
    1. the47th
      the47th 20 October 2014 15: 06 New
      +1
      Anyone (the one who has the machine) can stamp the receiver. In the United States, a bunch of small importing firms are doing this. They buy used AKs, cut down receiver boxes, import them, saving on duties, and then stamp new ones. And stamped, in most cases, not very well.
  3. erased
    erased 20 October 2014 09: 49 New
    +6
    Another alteration of Kalashnikov. I don’t know how she is in battle. And TTX Fort-228 is strange. How does the shorter range have longer aiming ranges, although the cartridge is 7,62? Even our AK-104, with a barrel length of 314 mm, has an aiming range of 500 m. You can’t fasten a grenade launcher at Fort-228.
    1. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 20 October 2014 12: 08 New
      +1
      Quote: erased
      Another alteration of Kalashnikov. I don’t know how she is in battle. A TTX Fort-228 is weird. How does the shorter range have longer aiming ranges, although the 7,62 cartridge? Even our AK-104 with a barrel length of 314 mm has an impact range of 500 m ...


      Sighting range depends on the length and stability of the sighting line (the distance between the front sight and the whole), that is, on the accuracy of the weapon.

      The difference between AK and Galil is not a remake, but improvement. Increased accuracy and ergonomics with initial reliability.

      ... On Fort-228 you can’t fasten the gaffer.




      Py.Sy. - It is possible to mount the GP-25, there would be a desire.
      1. erased
        erased 20 October 2014 14: 32 New
        +3
        This is not Fort 228, but Fort 227.
        And the Israelis, as well as the Finns, can improve their own, and not steal someone else's. This is our authorities chewing snot, it would be necessary to solder a lawsuit for copying someone else's.
      2. Droid
        Droid 20 October 2014 18: 09 New
        +2
        Sighting range depends on the length and stability of the sighting line (the distance between the front sight and the whole), that is, on the accuracy of the weapon.

        Sighting range depends on only one - whether the bullet will fly.
      3. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 21 October 2014 00: 19 New
        +1
        As far as I remember, the Jews had problems copying the bolt group, the infection wedged!
      4. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 21 October 2014 00: 19 New
        0
        As far as I remember, the Jews had problems copying the bolt group, the infection wedged!
      5. fennekRUS
        fennekRUS 21 October 2014 00: 51 New
        +2
        Sighting range depends on the length and stability of the sighting line (the distance between the front sight and the whole), that is, on the accuracy of the weapon. (with)
        correct-Military Encyclopedic Dictionary. - M .: 1983, S. 592:

        Sighting range - the shortest distance from the point of departure to the intersection of the trajectory with the line of sight.
        In general, the magnitude is virtual, and to the accuracy of the rifle, unlike accuracy and flatness, it does not have a relationship. can be aimed and up to 2 km to do, and proudly write about it. AK won up to a kilometer shaded. So what? you see the growth behind the fly on a kilometer?
    2. Droid
      Droid 20 October 2014 18: 07 New
      +1
      And TTX Fort-228 is strange. How does the shorter range have longer aiming ranges, although the cartridge is 7,62?

      Very simple. They wanted and made sighting with such a range. Why is there another question.
    3. fennekRUS
      fennekRUS 21 October 2014 00: 46 New
      0
      You know. two things confuse
      1-how with such a wide forearm lies in your hand? I’ll go look for a video with an ancestor.
      Is 2 Fort still alive?
      I’m not going to find fault like so many on the basis of nationality- PM guys perfectly rethought, creatively. And the build quality is one and a half times higher than Izhevsk (compare trauma storm and Makarych)
  4. rope
    rope 20 October 2014 09: 50 New
    14
    all to us Khan without a chance laughing
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 20 October 2014 09: 57 New
    21
    "Both rifles can be used at night due to the convenient mechanical sight and telescopic stock."

    Well, yes, these are the basic conditions for shooting at night. laughing
    1. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 20 October 2014 12: 14 New
      +3
      Quote: Vladimirets
      "Both rifles can be used at night due to the convenient mechanical sight and telescopic stock."

      Well, yes, these are the basic conditions for shooting at night. laughing


      The author burns of course, but seriously - we are talking about tritium marks on the front and rear sights (glow in the dark)
      1. Botanologist
        Botanologist 20 October 2014 14: 06 New
        +5
        Quote: And Us Rat
        we are talking about tritium marks on the front and rear sights (glow in the dark)


        In a Middle Eastern theater of war, tritium marks probably make sense. But in our latitudes at night, even at night glasses, meters on 700 (in autumn) are visible, and with rain and fog - up to 200. Well, tritium marks than will help - apparently, they will only give confidence that you understand the direction of fire.
        In any case, the luminous fly when shooting at night only bothered me, so I twisted it and shoot it on the bar (from the hunting one, for understanding). In the machine, I think, but our climate also has no advantages. Our nights are too dark request
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  7. bmv04636
    bmv04636 20 October 2014 09: 58 New
    +2
    screwdriver assembly
  8. padonok.71
    padonok.71 20 October 2014 10: 00 New
    +4
    Made the AK, that's all the achievement. Loading handle on the left, LLC ..... breakthrough, double-sided fuse, UUU ..... achievement of the century, EGEGE dust cover ..... has no analogues (stop, this is our saying, it won’t work!), Telescopic butt URA .... sensation!
    But seriously, I do not see anything sensible in these crafts. Jews making galil thought a lot, conducted surveys in the troops, so the machine came out good, balanced, convenient. And Ukrainians simply, thoughtlessly hung fashion tzatseks, so there was, frankly, nonsense.
    And the pathos of submitting information .....
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 20 October 2014 11: 48 New
      14
      No, here you are, however, you are mistaken, this is an old acquaintance galil, of the differences, apart from restyling in the form of a tickle all over the carcass and an American telescope, only the transfer of the shutter handle to the left side (sho for "practitioners" and police special forces zer good, and for army weapons rather controversial)
      Quote: padonok.71
      And Ukrainians simply, thoughtlessly hung fashion tzatseks, so there was, frankly, nonsense.

      You will still laugh, but it seems to me that from Fort there is only a name and everything else is Made in Israel, but in general the Jews are great fellows to manage to get involved in a camp with a deceased economy that is absolutely not necessary to them - this is not just talent - TALENT!
      1. padonok.71
        padonok.71 20 October 2014 12: 42 New
        +3
        But does Galilo (which sa, sar, mar) have a neck (which is not), a staple, a handle, is this one plastic crap? What about a pen? But the butt? And the curtain?
        I agree that, technically, this is a gadget, but if you talk like that, it's all AK.
        And what I was talking about. Galil appeared on time and for his time was a very good unit, but this crap ...
        1. gross kaput
          gross kaput 20 October 2014 12: 52 New
          +3
          Quote: padonok.71
          But does galilo (which sa, sar, mar) have a neck (which does not), a staple, a handle, is this one plastic crap?

          So this classmass crap is simply dressed on the receiver from the bottom and does not bear any power load, the box itself, as it was all-steel, remained
          Quote: padonok.71
          What about a pen? But the butt? And the curtain?

          So I also say the usual restyling, of all the alterations not related to the exterior, only the transfer of the platoon handle and the slide delay, it never occurs to anyone to call the AK in the Krebs body kit "Krebs automatic machine", so these are the same eggs only in profile , but as it turned out, the marketing moves of the automotive industry are applicable to weapons - we add some ruffles and the people will buy.
          1. padonok.71
            padonok.71 20 October 2014 15: 59 New
            +2
            Gross! I'm with you boiling water pi ... yu! And I'm talking about something!
            It’s just that what they hung on the little thing for their time was zero. And the fact that right now they have mastered, for ours - an arsh shoe. Despite the beauty of ryushechek.
            And the very thing that we are doing the same thing, with all sorts of AK-100, 12. And there are ideas and young, smart guys, and everything is marking time. We’re stuffing our pockets (well, not all of course, far from all :-)
      2. Ascetic
        Ascetic 20 October 2014 13: 22 New
        +8
        Quote: gross kaput
        You will still laugh, but it seems to me that from Fort there is only a name and everything else is Made in Israel, but in general the Jews are great fellows to manage to get involved in a camp with a deceased economy that is absolutely not necessary to them - this is not just talent - TALENT!


        and the "safety wall" is also their favorite pastime (Rabbit Senya builds a cage for himself laughing ) or the division into widespread Ukrainians and subhuman people also resembles some states.
        No wonder the Gestapo and the synagogue staged a concert in support of the punishers. By the way, the head of the Jewish community of Ukraine is Gauleiter of Dnepropetrovsk Benya-Kolomoisky (a person with three citizenship).
        Under the cheerful motives of Hava Nagil, the Nazi battalions "Azov" and "Dnepr"
        will go to clean Donbass from quilted jackets, armed with Fort super-screws belay
        1. tilix
          tilix 20 October 2014 17: 55 New
          -3
          Oh, the liar has come. Already able to calculate the difference between the dead and the participants? Not yet? Back to school. You’ve built iron borders all your life, but can’t Jews? Who was looking for anti-Semite? Here he is animal, real, two-faced, and does not know the score.
          1. Shvonder
            Shvonder 20 October 2014 21: 15 New
            +2
            Quote: tilix
            Who was looking for anti-Semite? Here he is animal, real, two-faced, and does not know the score.

            Is that what made you so upset? Shaw for a tantrum? !! Oh, these pseudo-Zionist books of a semi-fascist, nationalistic nature, limited in mental development (people, as a rule, with serious mental deviations) laughing
          2. Kurkin
            Kurkin 21 October 2014 14: 10 New
            +1
            Oh, w * dovsky rowdy. Semites are Arabs (Palestinians), and you, without clan and tribe, all the way, mixed with everyone with whom you could, with the Turks, Semites, Europeans, Poles, Rus and other Slavs. Remember that your Jewishness is determined by your mother, and not by the head of the ROD bata. So, you are the real anti-Semites, Nazis and racists, because you kill Palestinians and Arabs, you consider yourself "God's chosen", and everyone else is cattle. How is it with you: "everything that belongs to a goy must belong to a Jew"?
  9. Prince sofa
    Prince sofa 20 October 2014 10: 05 New
    +4
    Have come. Even Israeli weapons.
  10. Good cat
    Good cat 20 October 2014 10: 08 New
    +4
    They have the pathos of presenting information everything else replaces. There is no need to do anything further. The main thing on Facebook is to embed the article and collect the likes.
  11. ArhipenkoAndrey
    ArhipenkoAndrey 20 October 2014 10: 09 New
    +4
    The weapon may not be very bad, but the question of means, excellent ergonomics and other nishtyaki is the cost of this weapon and the thesis abroad will help us, as a rule, is declared by crooks who are not related to the economy. But in the outskirts there is no money to pay for gas, and the transition to NATO standards will completely ruin the defense industry, breaking the old is easier than building a new one, and for some reason, the new authorities spend money all the time on zilch or on killing their own kind, instead of investing not in war and to the economy, and since they don’t do this, they were tearing down to Nesalazhnaya from a high bell tower — these are temporary workers who will dump after fulfilling the task of selling Ukraine’s nenki to the sensitive hands of the owners.
  12. Alexander
    Alexander 20 October 2014 10: 09 New
    +8
    Fort clone Galil, Galil clone Valmet, Valmet clone Kalash .. unpatriotic somehow for Square.
    1. Professor
      Professor 20 October 2014 10: 47 New
      0
      Quote: alexandr
      Fort clone Galil, Galil clone Valmet, Valmet clone Kalash ..

      Why did you break the logical chain? wink Just kidding. laughing
      1. padonok.71
        padonok.71 20 October 2014 11: 30 New
        +3
        And that’s all. The beginning of the AK chain. I'm not kidding.
        1. Professor
          Professor 20 October 2014 11: 40 New
          +2
          Quote: padonok.71
          And that’s all. The beginning of the AK chain. I'm not kidding.

          He said "just kidding." I'm not going to touch the holy cows. wassat
          1. padonok.71
            padonok.71 20 October 2014 12: 45 New
            +5
            Well, that's not necessary. First make such a masterpiece, and then ernichat.
            1. Professor
              Professor 20 October 2014 13: 01 New
              -10
              Quote: padonok.71
              Well, that's not necessary. First make such a masterpiece, and then ernichat.

              Take the apprentice Schmeisser Hugo himself and do it. wink
              Oh. It will not work, he has already died. crying
              1. Eggor
                Eggor 20 October 2014 14: 37 New
                +6
                Quote: Professor
                Take the apprentice Schmeisser Hugo himself and do it.

                No, well, the Hasidim with a yeshiva developed behind him. lol
                1. Professor
                  Professor 20 October 2014 14: 55 New
                  -1
                  Quote: EgGor
                  No, well, the Hasidim with a yeshiva developed behind him.

                  I don’t know, I didn’t hold a candle, but I suspect that Schmeiser and dozens of German engineers did not work for them. Honestly bought a license and then fine tuning. For not having a tax in the world or a masterpiece which does not give him.
                  1. Eggor
                    Eggor 20 October 2014 15: 45 New
                    +6
                    Quote: Professor
                    but I suspect

                    Or sure? Maybe everything is not so simple, and the goys made an invaluable contribution?
                    Quote: Professor
                    that Schmeiser with dozens

                    May be enough? The German worked in the USSR, now all the mechanisms are more complicated than the lazy man; Calm down already.
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 21 October 2014 06: 32 New
                      +1
                      Quote: EgGor
                      Or sure? Maybe everything is not so simple, and the goys made an invaluable contribution?

                      Of course I am sure that Hugo did not work for the creators of Galil. But what "he gave advice" to Sergeant Kalashnikov, I don't know, because the materials are still classified. Almost 70 years have passed, and there is no way to get to the archives. Why's that? request

                      Quote: EgGor
                      May be enough? The German worked in the USSR, now all the mechanisms are more complicated than the lazy man; is his merit? Calm down already

                      I’ll calm down when I get all the necessary information, but for now they have something to hide and will continue to be interested in it.
                      1. Kurkin
                        Kurkin 21 October 2014 14: 18 New
                        +2
                        Everything is Jewish, according to the catechism. To distort the facts, lie, make an imbalance and arrange a shit. And before Hugo, apparently in Russia, no one designed automatic small arms! Yes, only Fedorov developed the world's first assault rifle, and then there were the self-loading and automatic rifles of Simonov and Tokarev, which worked according to the same automatic scheme as the Kalash. So you zemlyobetovantsy "God-loathsome" let’s not smack nonsense, but admit that you are only capable of taking someone else's, appropriating for yourself and giving it away.
                      2. bunta
                        bunta 21 October 2014 14: 58 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Professor
                        I’ll calm down when I get all the necessary information,

                        Will that be enough?
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                      4. bunta
                        bunta 21 October 2014 15: 09 New
                        +5
                        Quote: Professor
                        I’ll calm down when I get all the necessary information,


                        Dear Professor". Especially for you, I publish one of the "secret" declassified documents. You can get a complete set in the archives of the Udmurst Republic and the Izhmash Museum.
                        ps I sincerely wish you the same as you yourself, namely, to calm down.
                      5. bunta
                        bunta 21 October 2014 15: 16 New
                        +1
                        And what a signature! D.F.Ustinov!
                    2. The comment was deleted.
              2. Aaron Zawi
                Aaron Zawi 20 October 2014 17: 16 New
                +2
                Quote: EgGor
                Quote: Professor
                Take the apprentice Schmeisser Hugo himself and do it.

                No, well, the Hasidim with a yeshiva developed behind him. lol

                In principle, here is the story of the creation of Galil, and quite in Russian.
                http://otvaga2004.ru/kaleydoskop/kaleydoskop-inf/galil/
                Well, the fact that Galil is a completely demanded weapon today can be confirmed to you by both Colombians and Vietnamese, from a dozen more countries. I just don’t understand why in Ukraine they are perverted and simply will not be called Galil-Galil. Apart from them, no one is soared with this.
                1. Eggor
                  Eggor 20 October 2014 17: 52 New
                  +9
                  Quote: Aron Zaavi
                  In principle, here is the story of the creation of Galil, and quite in Russian.
                  Well, the fact that Galil is a completely demanded weapon today can be confirmed to you by both Colombians and Vietnamese, from a dozen more countries. I just don’t understand why in Ukraine they are perverted and simply will not be called Galil-Galil. Apart from them, no one is soared with this.

                  So did I argue with that? I’m not even going to. Why would the Professor pull out from the dusty closet a bespontovy story about a gloomy Teutonic genius and a naive Russian quilted jacket? Is that to troll the former compatriots.
            2. sharp-lad
              sharp-lad 21 October 2014 00: 27 New
              0
              Yes, and with Schmeiser vryatli come out! Kalash may have taken a couple of ideas, but no more!
            3. sharp-lad
              sharp-lad 21 October 2014 00: 27 New
              0
              Yes, and with Schmeiser vryatli come out! Kalash may have taken a couple of ideas, but no more!
        2. tkhonov66
          tkhonov66 20 October 2014 16: 39 New
          +4
          "...
          I'm not going to touch the holy cows. wassat
          ..."
          .
          - that there is NOTHING for you to "touch" them ...
          8-))
          .
          and don't tell me anything about "stg-44" ...
          http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000358/358275.jpg
          http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000353/353192.jpg
          http://alex---1967.narod.ru/waffe/Stg_44_000_00_vzriv_shema.JPG
          .
          And as they say - feel the difference:
          http://popgun.ru/files/g/96/orig/6560591.jpg
    2. Botanologist
      Botanologist 20 October 2014 14: 10 New
      +4
      Professor, what kind of style do you have - how do you appear, so you immediately begin to mock and run into minuses? Kinder to be to people.
      1. Professor
        Professor 20 October 2014 14: 32 New
        +1
        Quote: Botanologist
        Professor, what kind of style do you have - how do you appear, so you immediately begin to mock and run into minuses? Kinder to be to people.

        So they reach for me? wink
        1. padonok.71
          padonok.71 20 October 2014 16: 23 New
          +1
          Do not worry so much, no one will reach out to you. Maybe only Arabs, or some other igils. And you will never have Schmeisser as an "apprentice". You are only Natsik, who have fallen into insanity from old age, you can wipe out.
          1. Victor Demchenko
            Victor Demchenko 21 October 2014 19: 04 New
            +2
            Well here you are wrong my friend! Eugene warriors are very good, at one time I was convinced of this by more than one Arab country, and there is no need to shag grandma! but in my opinion the professor runs into minus with a specialist, well, he likes to tease geese, and even more so, our boys start up very easily.
            I respectfully express my humble opinion. hi
        2. STALGRAD76
          STALGRAD76 20 October 2014 22: 58 New
          +2
          Quote: Professor
          Quote: Botanologist
          Professor, what kind of style do you have - how do you appear, so you immediately begin to mock and run into minuses? Kinder to be to people.

          So they reach for me? wink

          At least in order that would not turn back to you winked
        3. loft79
          loft79 20 October 2014 22: 58 New
          +1
          Quote: Professor
          So they reach for me?

          Professor Botanologist correctly written kinder and easier laughing With one phrase they trolled a branch. Hollywood is endless. Local clash why arrange?
        4. Mwg
          Mwg 21 October 2014 17: 32 New
          0
          No, to start believing in a constructive beginning in a person and stop appealing to the dark side of the subconscious)))
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Assistant
      Assistant 20 October 2014 20: 20 New
      +3
      Why did you break the logical chain? wink Just kidding, just kidding. laughing


      Bulkin?
    5. cherina
      cherina 20 October 2014 21: 04 New
      -2
      Again, you professor, with your comments, they kicked Russian friends with their feet in the balls now, angry comments pouring on you like cornucopia, but seriously, somewhere I read about the team that completed the sample called the Kalashnikov assault rifle, which included German gunsmiths including Hugo Schmeiser, he also said that when their group encountered many problems when finalizing this type of weapon, the recommendations of Comrade Schmeiser helped solve some problems by stamping individual parts of the machine that radically improved its reliability and reliability, and Kalashnikov was one of the inventors he issued a general concept, but upon execution he encountered many problems that the independent could not solve due to lack of education, therefore this group of engineers was created and Kalashnikov was appointed chief engineer in view of the workers of peasant origin.
      1. bunta
        bunta 20 October 2014 21: 53 New
        +6
        If you will, I will use your post at my lecture on Schmeisser to students of the Izhevsk Industrial College as an example of misconceptions about the person of this gloomy Teutonic genius.
        If it’s not difficult for you to look into my profile, then there will be answers to your questions.
        1. cherina
          cherina 22 October 2014 04: 03 New
          0
          excuse me, dear, but where did you see the accuracy of my statement regarding the gloomy Teutonic genius? What is the dissonance of my statement? I just referred to the print publication, as they say, bought for and sold and didn’t even boil
          1. bunta
            bunta 22 October 2014 08: 29 New
            +3
            There is no need "somewhere to read something about the team that was finishing something." It is nearby in Google for the keyword "schmeisser". Especially Kolmykov's article. In your post there is a very capacious quintessence of all the speculations about Schmeisser. I will insert it into my report.

            The only "printed" edition about this figure is an article by Norbert Mosharsky
            "Die Ära der Gebrüder Schmeisser in der Waffenfabrik
            Fa. CG Haenel Suhl 1921-1948 "in a scientific collection. Based on this article, there was a book with a very small circulation:
            Hugo Schmeisser: zwischen Tabu und Legende; der weltbekannte Suhler Waffenkonstrukteur 1884-1953. I could not even buy it, I had to confine myself to an article received from Suhl.
            There are no other printed materials dedicated to the Schmeisser line. All that is mentioned in other prints is taken from the works of Mosharski.
            This material reveals the greedy and stupid side of the personality of the Schmeisser brothers.
            But the article by Mosharski does not cover his stay in Izhevsk. Mosharski’s book contains copies of Schmeisser's letters to plant management about salary increases. In this letter, he mentions his achievements in the creation of MP-18 and says nothing about the storm trooper. But the point is not even that. Apparently, Ilya Shaidurov transferred Mosharsky materials from the archives of Izhmash, including this letter. But Shaidurov did not transmit the main thing or did, but Mosharski did not publish the main document - a description of the list of works performed by Schmeisser. And such characteristics were 15 for each of the German engineers working in Izhevsk.
            Now copies of these characteristics and other materials are stored where I already said.

            If you are too lazy to look into my profile, I give the link:
            http://topwar.ru/56746-shmaysser-v-izhevske.html

            if the evidence gathered there is not enough for you, you can object to me here. Within reasonable limits.
            1. cherina
              cherina 24 October 2014 04: 55 New
              -1
              maybe this and that article I won’t argue, I just wanted to say that the Kalashnikov assault rifle is not one person’s work and its form is very similar to the German Sturmgevere model, and given the fact that the German model was released earlier, it completely suggests that somewhere there could be a little plagiarism in form about a schmeiser, this is understandable for a person who worked all his life for himself, with the same tenacity to work for rations for his uncle, so everything is natural for the capitalist, it is impossible to explain the joy of free labor for a piece of bread, therefore he demanded an increase in salary about galil ace 31 I visited the iwi factory and shot from this sample with a calimator honestly the impression is very good, very high-quality and comfortable barrel with excellent ergonomics and I understand Ukrainians and everyone who buys it believe it has a very good future and the fort did the right thing that I bought a license since they’re going to switch to NATO standards and you can sell a lot to anyone many armies are switching to these weapons and believe me not just
  • Panikovsky
    Panikovsky 20 October 2014 10: 14 New
    +8
    uv.Valeriy Boval, you are a good guy, but do not soar in empireia. Ukrainian VPK was worth something when it was an integral part of the Soviet Arms brand, and now it can’t even arm its own rags at the very least.
    I propose to close the topic of ukrovpk achievements forever, because it’s not even funny.
  • Mama_Cholli
    Mama_Cholli 20 October 2014 10: 31 New
    +3
    This was a little jarring - "Both options have been tested in battle conditions, and have already managed to prove their reliability in emergency, unfavorable and unforeseen situations."
    Hopefully, they were tested only in the question "does not pound on the back" in the conditions of drape from the militias ..
  • SIT
    SIT 20 October 2014 10: 51 New
    +3
    The fuse on the left of the handle is incredibly inconvenient !! Actually, just like on the right, horseradish knows where on the receiver. Who thought of this? Really it was impossible to do as in M4 on the left on the receiver directly under the thumb of the right hand? Well, on the right is the same in connection with the fashion for taking care of left-handed people. Right-handed people need to be trained in a completely different way to use the fuse.
    1. Professor
      Professor 20 October 2014 11: 12 New
      +4
      Quote: SIT
      The fuse on the left of the handle is incredibly inconvenient !!

      Have you personally tried it? The fuse is duplicated on both sides - very convenient. good With the thumb of your right hand without releasing the handle.
      1. Mama_Cholli
        Mama_Cholli 20 October 2014 11: 44 New
        +4
        In this case, it is really convenient, but not in the case of Kalash. His fuse with his thumb, without releasing the handle, and even in mittens can not be removed (even if it had been duplicated on the right). On pistols, this solution looks more successful, as it would be implied that the weapon is used only with one hand.
  • samoletil18
    samoletil18 20 October 2014 10: 51 New
    +4
    Both rifles can be used at night due to the presence of a convenient mechanical sight and telescopic stock.
    Why, "Kalashnikov" will not fire in the dark without a telescopic stock? And the whole article is like that - nothing. Personally, if something happens, I have no desire to change the AK for a Ukrainian work after reading the article.
  • maksimovich
    maksimovich 20 October 2014 11: 02 New
    +5
    very similar to the Bulgarian "Arsenal", which rivets bad quality AK.
  • Prager
    Prager 20 October 2014 11: 21 New
    +4
    dill is gradually being drawn into the orbit of NATO standards. and then they themselves will be involved in the whole country.
    1. padonok.71
      padonok.71 20 October 2014 11: 33 New
      +3
      So right there they are waiting. Beggar.
    2. Mama_Cholli
      Mama_Cholli 20 October 2014 11: 46 New
      +1
      Quote: Prager
      dill is gradually being drawn into the orbit of NATO standards. and then they themselves will be involved in the whole country.

      Naturally, only then let them not be surprised why a same-sex family is good, and if the children say that there is a dad and a mom, this is bad. )))
  • Major_Vortex
    Major_Vortex 20 October 2014 11: 29 New
    +5
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: alexandr
    Fort clone Galil, Galil clone Valmet, Valmet clone Kalash ..

    Why did you break the logical chain? wink Just kidding. laughing


    And what's the joke actually? Galil is stripped off with AK, with minimal modifications. Instead of the Soviet AK, they took his Finnish clone. Because the Finns sold the Israelis technology and equipment for the production of this type of weapon. There is no secret to this.

    Modern Israeli Tabor, if taken apart, is also a hodgepodge from other weapons, with minimal changes.

    Kalashnikov was created in the years when this class of weapons was just getting ready to come out. Although he absorbed the positive experience accumulated by the arms industry at that time, he was a novelty in itself. AK simply had nothing to "clone" with.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 20 October 2014 12: 50 New
      +2
      "also a hodgepodge from other weapons, with minimal changes." ////

      There is a very important feature in Tavor: the trunk and plank of the picattini are tough
      stapled - in fact this is one detail.
      When disassembling, they are removed only together. It gives a very high
      precision weapons.
      1. Major_Vortex
        Major_Vortex 20 October 2014 13: 21 New
        +5
        Quote: voyaka uh
        "also a hodgepodge from other weapons, with minimal changes." ////

        There is a very important feature in Tavor: the trunk and plank of the picattini are tough
        stapled - in fact this is one detail.
        When disassembling, they are removed only together. It gives a very high
        precision weapons.


        The best accuracy and accuracy gives a cantilever mounted freely hung barrel. Here either you are misinformed or you are misinformed.

        How to reduce the effect of the venting device on accuracy - there is also a whole set of technical solutions and requirements. Any part that violates the axial balancing of the barrel, in itself only reduces accuracy and accuracy.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 20 October 2014 15: 24 New
          +1
          No less impact on accuracy
          mounting point of the sight. He may be on
          housing, on the cover of the receiver and on the barrel
          directly.
          It is clear that the last option is the best.
          1. Major_Vortex
            Major_Vortex 20 October 2014 15: 55 New
            +4
            Quote: voyaka uh
            No less impact on accuracy
            mounting point of the sight. He may be on
            housing, on the cover of the receiver and on the barrel
            directly.
            It is clear that the last option is the best.


            The sight should be fixed rigidly relative to the barrel and not go astray during the shooting process.

            The accuracy of firing is greatly influenced by the moving parts of the automatics, which affect the balance of the weapon during the shooting process, shift the sighting line of firing even before the bullet leaves the barrel. It affects the design of the barrel, the way it is attached to the receiver. The design of the venting device influences, since the barrel expands and lengthens when fired, and the venting device should not prevent this, otherwise the barrel is additionally bent when fired, which affects the accuracy of the shot. A lot of nuances. And at the same time, the customer imposes strict restrictions on the mass-overall characteristics of the weapon.
            It was these limitations that did not allow Eugene Stone (the designer of the M-16) to fully realize his ideas when developing the M-16 automatic rifle. For the sake of weight reduction, he made a risky compromise in the design of the rifle's gas outlet. The rifle turned out to be light, accurate, but not reliable enough in difficult operating conditions. And all because of the "rupture" of the gas outlet in the process of reloading the weapon.
            Water / dirt got inside - kirdyk rifle:
            http://www.gunsite.co.za/content/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/AR-15.M16-Gas-Imping
            ement.gif (link to gif animation)
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 20 October 2014 17: 23 New
              +4
              "Water / dirt got inside - kirdyk to the rifle:" ////

              I shot (in the field)
              from M-16 many thousands of rounds (for 16 years). Water, thick dust, sand - cope. Liquid mud - yes, it will stop. There were misfires, one in 2-4 stores on average, but not fatal, you distort - you shoot further. The balance of the long M-16 is one hundred percent, the return is zero. The barrel does not twitch at all after the shot. With the usual diopter sight you get wonderful. No need to lubricate. This compensates for misfires.
              The fact that the M-16 was disgusting is too long. In the trench it hurts, in the houses it is bad, in the jeep it gets stuck, jumping from the trucks when she is behind her, and her hands are busy with the load - oooh winked .
              1. Major_Vortex
                Major_Vortex 20 October 2014 21: 46 New
                +4
                Quote: voyaka uh
                "Water / dirt got inside - kirdyk to the rifle:" ////

                I shot (in the field)
                from M-16 many thousands of rounds (for 16 years). Water, thick dust, sand - cope. Liquid mud - yes, it will stop. There were misfires, one in 2-4 stores on average, but not fatal, you distort - you shoot further. The balance of the long M-16 is one hundred percent, the return is zero. The barrel does not twitch at all after the shot. With the usual diopter sight you get wonderful. No need to lubricate. This compensates for misfires.
                The fact that the M-16 was disgusting is too long. In the trench it hurts, in the houses it is bad, in the jeep it gets stuck, jumping from the trucks when she is behind her, and her hands are busy with the load - oooh winked .


                If water gets into the M-16 gas system, the rifle is completely out of order and goes for repairs, therefore, "bathing" the rifle in combat conditions without further cleaning / drying is contraindicated. In conditions of increased dust / pollution M-16 shows low reliability and survivability. These are the conclusions of various commissions on the basis of many years of use of the rifle in the troops and special tests carried out. This is due to the design features of the rifle. And the gas outlet system, and the features of the group's shutter, and the design of fixing the magazine in the M-16 are not the most reliable.

                And here is how an automatic weapon can work if it is built on the basis of a Kalashnikov assault rifle laughing :

                1. Major_Vortex
                  Major_Vortex 20 October 2014 22: 04 New
                  0
                  Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
                  ... And the vent system, and reclusive group features, and the design of the magazine fixation in the M-16 is not the most reliable ...


                  ... reclusive group.
              2. bunta
                bunta 20 October 2014 22: 03 New
                +4
                Quote: voyaka uh
                one at the 2-4 store on average

                That is, 1.25-2.5% but this is a very bad indicator.
                For AK, it cannot be more than 0,2%.
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 21 October 2014 00: 31 New
                  +3
                  What is. But it didn’t wedge tight, you pull the bolt — you shoot further.
                  On the other hand, it was possible, without spending a lot of rounds, to be successful in aiming alone.
                  The M-16 shot is very quiet, no fire is visible. The gun does not unmask the gun.
                  These are important little things.
                  1. bunta
                    bunta 21 October 2014 07: 58 New
                    +2
                    A wedge is a failure, as opposed to a delay that is treated by jerking the shutter. Failures are generally not allowed at acceptance tests. As for the shooting - it’s an amateur. Had an opportunity from the Vyatka-Polyana civil arch. Immediately showed her whim - did not give a cartridge from the store. Then it worked fine.
      2. goose
        goose 20 October 2014 13: 39 New
        +3
        This gives rather ease of disassembly and lack of play.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  • gross kaput
    gross kaput 20 October 2014 11: 55 New
    +3
    Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
    AK simply had nothing to "clone" with.

    A cheat, it’s boring to put some shit on the fan
    AK-46, experienced AK-47, AB-46 guess where anyone is.

    1. Major_Vortex
      Major_Vortex 20 October 2014 12: 20 New
      +9
      Quote: gross kaput
      Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
      AK simply had nothing to "clone" with.

      A cheat, it’s boring to put some shit on the fan
      AK-46, experienced AK-47, AB-46 guess where anyone is.


      Personally, I am bored and uninteresting to discuss all these experimental samples. The affairs of days gone by. Everything is described and chewed, and in the public domain. AK won the competition. A whole era of weapons of this class began with him. Both AK clones and AK killers.

      But the next generation, which will come into operation after the Kalashnikovs, I would discuss. Possible directions of development. Just not in the subject of the alleged screwdriver assembly of Galil modifications in Ukraine.
      1. gross kaput
        gross kaput 20 October 2014 12: 44 New
        +6
        Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
        But the next generation, which will come into operation after the Kalashnikovs, I would discuss.

        But is it, is this the next generation? So far, it’s not even in the form of clear requirements on paper, and all of our throwing AK VS AEK confirms this, the mattress cover was scratched by turnips and said that there is no sense in bothering with re-equipment with the M4 / M16 until something radically superior, and with a replacement AK-74M in my opinion there is no reason to bother, you need to bother with the development and production of high-quality special stages for it - primarily domestic collimator and optical sights, night lights and thermal imagers.
        1. Major_Vortex
          Major_Vortex 20 October 2014 14: 07 New
          +5
          Quote: gross kaput
          Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
          But the next generation, which will come into operation after the Kalashnikovs, I would discuss.

          But is it, is this the next generation? So far, it’s not even in the form of clear requirements on paper, and all of our throwing AK VS AEK confirms this, the mattress cover was scratched by turnips and said that there is no sense in bothering with re-equipment with the M4 / M16 until something radically superior, and with a replacement AK-74M in my opinion there is no reason to bother, you need to bother with the development and production of high-quality special stages for it - primarily domestic collimator and optical sights, night lights and thermal imagers.


          ... Cartridges and cartridge production. The quality of gunpowder and the progress of small arms depend very much on the quality of gunpowder and ammunition.
    2. padonok.71
      padonok.71 20 October 2014 12: 49 New
      0
      Yeah, yeah, let’s go to StG, wretch :-)
      1. gross kaput
        gross kaput 20 October 2014 12: 53 New
        0
        No, to the Bulkin assault rifle.
        1. Major_Vortex
          Major_Vortex 20 October 2014 13: 33 New
          0
          Quote: gross kaput
          No, to the Bulkin assault rifle.


          Today there are AK, M-16/4, G36, VSS "Vintorez" / "VAL", certain experiments on t / n "balanced automation" ... Bulkin's automatic machine is only of interest to historians. Progress has gone ahead a lot.
          1. luiswoo
            luiswoo 20 October 2014 20: 15 New
            0
            Today there are AK, M-16/4, G36, VSS "Vintorez" / "VAL", certain experiments on t / n "balanced automation" ... Bulkin's automatic machine is only of interest to historians. Progress has gone ahead a lot.

            This "historical exhibit", with minimal alterations, is still in service today. And where is the "progress", here it seems they discussed the pedigree of "Fort"?
            1. Major_Vortex
              Major_Vortex 20 October 2014 22: 54 New
              0
              Quote: luiswoo
              This "historical exhibit", with minimal alterations, is still in service today. And where is the "progress", here it seems they discussed the pedigree of "Fort"?


              Galil is an AK clone chambered for NATO. "Fort" is a clone of Galil.
    3. luiswoo
      luiswoo 20 October 2014 19: 44 New
      0
      AK-47, AB-46, AK-46 - right? :)
      The fact that AK-46 is an absolutely superfluous element in this series will not be understood only by the gifted ...
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 20 October 2014 12: 59 New
    +1
    Are the Israelis not afraid that these weapons will soon be stamped by Norinco? Given the very free attitude of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex to intellectual property ...
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 20 October 2014 13: 20 New
      +5
      And there that there is any novelty of the design that may interest the Chinese? Why didn’t they copy Galil earlier? Probably because, unlike many people think of the Chinese as monkeys that copy everything that falls into their eyes, is that not so?
      The Chinese produced / released for export their versions of the AK-sub 7,62X39 - M-22, type 56, Type 56-2, Norinco AK, QBZ56C, MAK-90, NHM-91, type 88SB under 5,56X45 - type 86, Type 86S, under 5,45X39 - Type 88S. So the line of AK-shaped ones is full of colors and purses for every taste and well-established steady sales, so why should they make a copy of Galil with dull sales prospects?
    2. Timeout
      Timeout 20 October 2014 14: 28 New
      +1
      Quote: Spade
      Are the Israelis not afraid that these weapons will soon be stamped by Norinco?

      The Chinese clone only what is worthy of cloning. For two years they compared Tavor and QBZ-95 and admitted that the Israeli assault rifle does not at all surpass the Chinese product, but in some aspects it is inferior to it in terms of performance characteristics. So Galilo in all forms is simply not threatened.
      1. Professor
        Professor 20 October 2014 14: 38 New
        +2
        Quote: Timeout
        The Chinese clone only what is worthy of cloning.

        The Chinese only copy what they are allowed to copy. For example, Russia allows you to copy everything and they copy. Would not allow and they did not copy. By the way (I am now in China), the Chinese complain that their government began to press civilian fakes. So maybe when life makes.

        Quote: Timeout
        They compared Tavor and QBZ-95 for two years.

        Did they tell you this? wink

        Quote: Timeout
        So Galilo in all forms is simply not threatened.

        It's true. But not for that reason. They won’t steal from Israel, Israel will gladly sell the technology as it did to Vietnam, and the Chinese simply don’t have any needs in the Galilee. However, as in Israel itself, there is no need for Galilee, at least in the army.
        1. Timeout
          Timeout 20 October 2014 15: 43 New
          +4
          Quote: Professor
          The Chinese only copy what they are allowed to copy.

          China deeply shrugs patent rights, regardless of whether they are American, Israeli or Russian. Confirmation of this is the clones of the Su-27, AK, M-16, Colt 1911.
          So there are enough examples. At the moment, no one decree is given to them. Change the IP address if in China, and do not say that you are working through a personal satellite. The government has never pinched fakes and is unlikely to be, they just have a demand - quality.
          Quote: Professor
          Did they tell you this?

          Unlike you "professor", I asked myself the question "Why do almost all the PLA officers speak Russian?" and "Why are joint exercises such as Soyuz-2003 called so strangely?"
          Quote: Professor
          They will not steal from Israel,

          Quote: Professor
          and the Chinese simply don’t have any needs in the Galilee.

          I already wrote, China does not care for anyone's opinion, as long as it brings income to achieve everything that "Great Mao" punished. So the "promised land" is no exception. If IWI weapons were superior to anything that is offered on the world market, clones have long been in the hands of some Zulus.
          1. Professor
            Professor 20 October 2014 18: 59 New
            +2
            Quote: Timeout
            China deeply shrugs patent rights, regardless of whether they are American, Israeli or Russian. Confirmation of this is the clones of the Su-27, AK, M-16, Colt 1911.

            You are deeply mistaken. They need technology and when they are given conditions, they fulfill these conditions. An example of Raphael's air-to-air missile.

            Quote: Timeout
            At the moment, no one decree is given to them.

            Yeah. Because suddenly, they almost hit the fake market. Where did the left production go?

            Quote: Timeout
            Change the IP address if in China, and do not say that you are working through a personal satellite.

            Without an Israeli proxy, googling does not work, its local authorities ban. I’m silent about YouTube.

            Quote: Timeout
            The government has never pinched fakes and is unlikely to be, they just have a demand - quality.

            Already pinches and strongly. I repeat: they now need the necessary technology, but they can no longer be stolen.

            Quote: Timeout
            Unlike you "professor", I asked myself the question "Why do almost all the PLA officers speak Russian?" and "Why are joint exercises such as Soyuz-2003 called so strangely?"

            Yeah. They (the testers) told you. wassat

            Quote: Timeout
            If the weapons from IWI were superior to anything that is offered on the world market, the clones have long been in the hands of some sort of Zulus.

            You are talking nonsense. They will not copy, but simply buy what they need. That’s what I’m doing now in Shanghai - technology transfer. They bought and we sold.

            PS
            The day before yesterday I watched the flights of local MiG-21s. Just a time machine took me to childhood. Class. good
            1. Timeout
              Timeout 21 October 2014 06: 10 New
              +1
              Quote: Professor

              You are deeply mistaken. They need technology and when they are given conditions, they fulfill these conditions. An example of Raphael's air-to-air missile.

              China already has all the leading technologies, 70% of electronic components are developed in laboratories in China. And again, 70% there are issued in unlabeled form. China does not buy from Israel, but participates in joint development. Quite different things.
              Quote: Professor
              Yeah. Because suddenly, they almost hit the fake market. Where did the left production go?

              Dear, many Chinese knee factories have been trading legal products for a couple of years in quality and parameters not inferior to world brands.
              Quote: Professor
              Without an Israeli proxy, googling does not work, its local authorities ban. I’m silent about YouTube.

              Proxy It can be seen that you still read news about the restriction of Internet traffic in China from outside. In any seedy wi-fi hotel without any restrictions on access to world resources. All services work in real, specifically connected via Chinese proxy wassat... "professor" well, how much can you shaggy grandmother?
              Quote: Professor
              Already pinches and strongly. I repeat: they now need the necessary technology, but they can no longer be stolen.

              What kind of technology? Missile, Israel still stomp and stomp to the Chinese. Electronics, all the technologies have been working there for a long time. In China, an elementary crisis in the field of education and training of engineering and technical personnel after the Union collapsed.
              Quote: Professor
              Yeah. They (the testers) told you.

              Dear, all tests are carried out in the troops at the Taonan training ground where part of the Soyuz-2003 exercises took place. And communicating with the service department is not difficult and the data is not secret. "Prof" you are, as always, in your repertoire, trying to wriggle out.
              Quote: Professor
              That’s what I’m doing now in Shanghai - technology transfer. They bought and we sold.

              Dear "professor", China is the third largest electronics development country after the US and Japan, what the fuck is the technology? Israel should buy this from them, it is not even included in the top five. Or did you offer them an "iron fart" or the same "scrap iron"?
              1. Professor
                Professor 21 October 2014 06: 55 New
                +1
                Quote: Timeout
                China already has all the leading technology,

                No.

                Quote: Timeout
                China does not buy from Israel, but participates in joint development. Quite different things.

                Buys. That’s exactly what I’m doing now, transferring technology (in the semiconductor industry) purchased by China in Israel. It is purchased.

                Quote: Timeout
                Dear, many Chinese knee factories have been trading legal products for a couple of years in quality and parameters not inferior to world brands.

                That's right, legal. Fakes end.

                Quote: Timeout
                Proxy? Apparently you still read news about the restriction of Internet traffic in China from outside. In any seedy wi-fi hotel without any restrictions on access to world resources. All services work for yat, specially connected through a Chinese proxy. "professor" well, how much can you shaggy grandmother?

                Please do not tell me about restrictions on the Chinese Internet as I am now experiencing this on myself, both with Google and with its services like YouTube. Therefore, gmail, etc., I check through my working proxy. Next week, home, but for now to take a photo for you from the office window? wink
              2. Professor
                Professor 21 October 2014 07: 02 New
                +1
                Quote: Timeout
                What kind of technology? Missile, Israel still stomp and stomp to the Chinese. Electronics, all the technologies have been working there for a long time. In China, an elementary crisis in the field of education and training of engineering and technical personnel after the Union collapsed.

                At least missile ones. China bought air-to-air missiles in Israel. China BOUGHT the documentation on its fighter in Israel. I didn't steal it, but bought it. Better not start about electronics, now it's my bread. And they don't have all the technologies. The factories are equipped with American, German and Japanese hardware, not Chinese. I'll do it for selfi from the clean room and post it.


                Quote: Professor
                Dear, all tests are carried out in the troops at the Taonan training ground where part of the Soyuz-2003 exercises took place. And communicating with the service department is not difficult and the data is not secret. "Prof" you are, as always, in your repertoire, trying to wriggle out.

                Did they tell you themselves? wink

                Quote: Timeout
                Dear "professor", China is the third largest electronics development country after the US and Japan, what the fuck is the technology? Israel should buy this from them, it is not even included in the top five. Or did you offer them an "iron fart" or the same "scrap iron"?

                Especially for you I repeat, in Chinese fabs there is basically no Chinese equipment. And especially for you, now I’ll go and take a photo of the car made in Israel, so they don’t have their own. This is a harsh reality. request
                1. bmv04636
                  bmv04636 21 October 2014 09: 34 New
                  -4
                  a little photoshop and you can not show it.
        2. gross kaput
          gross kaput 20 October 2014 18: 31 New
          +1
          Quote: Professor
          The Chinese only copy what they are allowed to copy.

          So the Americans did not really allow them to copy their equipment, only Uncle Liao frankly doesn’t - they took and copied the American UR "helfire", and the Americans washed their face.
        3. no matter who i am
          no matter who i am 20 October 2014 19: 39 New
          +1
          Professor in China?
          tell someone is this true or not?
          1. Bayonet
            Bayonet 20 October 2014 20: 13 New
            +2
            Quote: it doesn't matter who I am
            Professor in China?
            tell someone is this true or not?

            What is surprising here? The question would be appropriate after his statement about being on Mars.
          2. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 20 October 2014 20: 20 New
            +2
            Quote: it doesn't matter who i am
            Professor in China?
            tell someone is this true or not?

            What's so surprising about it? My wife has now returned from Japan. She trained doctors there for two weeks to work on new Israeli equipment. They exhausted the soul. He says that the Chinese, compared to the Japanese, are simply "brothers in mind." wink The Japanese are not human robots.
        4. Shvonder
          Shvonder 20 October 2014 22: 28 New
          +2
          Quote: Professor
          By the way (I'm in China now)

          Go to Hong Kong. laughing
          1. Professor
            Professor 21 October 2014 07: 43 New
            +2
            Quote: Shvonder
            Go to Hong Kong.

            In a small town near Shanghai with a population of 13 million people.
  • Slavs69
    Slavs69 20 October 2014 13: 10 New
    +5
    "it should be noted compactness, modern ergonomic design, lightness,"
    Is four kg easy? Modern ergonomics - I agree.
    "Both rifles can be used at night due to the convenient mechanical sight and telescopic stock."
    Is it like that? But is there no concept of a night sight for UkroArmiya?
    At Interpolitech 2011, Fort spun in the hands of a bullpup. Heavy, seemed bulky and unkempt.
  • Nova
    Nova 20 October 2014 13: 23 New
    +3
    These are not analogues of Gililov, this is stupidly a license of Galil ACE
  • bistrov.
    bistrov. 20 October 2014 13: 34 New
    +5
    The author's puppy enthusiasm is incomprehensible. A screwdriver assembly of Israeli rifles with worse performance characteristics than that of a Kalashnikov assault rifle. A pistol is a pistol. A 12-kilogram bandura, and a magazine for only XNUMX rounds. Weight characteristics are almost twice as high as that of a Makarov pistol. And the muzzle velocity is the same as that of Makarov. And even that is produced in scanty batches. Probably bought from Russia. Now probably all production has stopped, since the plant (the name of what, in fact, this is a small experimental production) announced the termination of cooperation with Russia and is looking for new "partners".
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 20 October 2014 14: 04 New
      +4
      Quote: bistrov.
      a kilogram bandura, and the store only 12 rounds. The weight characteristics are almost two times higher than that of a Makarov pistol.

      What is the habit of the people to smear everything with shit, but what they have no idea about? Fort 12 empty weighs 830g, equipped with 950g. which is consistent with the mass of other pistols under a similar cartridge. The design is a mixture of CZ83 and CZ85, which, in principle, is understandable because in essence it was developed by the Czechs, the Czech Republic originally supplied the trunks from about the mid-2000s, Ukrainians began to produce them themselves, although there is no data on their quality.
      1. bistrov.
        bistrov. 20 October 2014 17: 45 New
        +2
        Quote: gross kaput
        What people have the habit of smearing everything with shit

        And here you don't need to smear anything, (the moderator deleted), it is, "create" (if they had invented it themselves, otherwise they just stupidly ripped off) a pistol in the 21st century is worse in characteristics than a Makarov pistol is simply shameful. even to nonprofessionals it is clear that the 9x 18 cartridge has long exhausted itself) Come on, they did it on the sly, and they did it, but at the same time it is too much to brag about it.
      2. Bayonet
        Bayonet 20 October 2014 20: 16 New
        +2
        Quote: gross kaput
        What people have the habit of smearing everything with shit,

        This habit among the people is considered patriotism - "not ours, it means shit!"
        1. bistrov.
          bistrov. 20 October 2014 21: 10 New
          0
          Quote: Bayonet
          This habit among the people is considered patriotism - "not ours, it means shit!"

          Is that a compliment, or condemnation?
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 21 October 2014 17: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: bistrov.
      Israeli rifles with worse performance characteristics than the Kalashnikov assault rifle.

      And here is more 8) Interesting
  • 0255
    0255 20 October 2014 13: 39 New
    +5
    Just tell Obama to the Ukrainian president:
    - Dill! Taking advantage of the uniqueness of the United States and the American nation, I command you to close the "Fort", remove the weapons produced at the "Fort" from service! And do not dare to disobey your master !!! And then I have ancient M16 assault rifles in my warehouse, I don't remember what year of production, so buy them from me at a tenfold overstated price! So what if they are still from the Vietnam War? So what if only half of the entire party can shoot of them, if not less?
    And the Ukrainian president will have to answer:
    “I obey, my lord!”
    And Ukraine will not have its own firearms ...
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 20 October 2014 14: 08 New
      +2
      Once the topic is touched upon by Orujia, who is at least somehow connected with Ukraine, immediately the screamers-speakers who do not have any idea about the subject and litter the topic with empty slogans pop up from the abyss of political sections - dear ones, go and stamp the slogans in the relevant political sections there and instruct you - the benefit is there, as in the market, everyone yells and does not listen to the others.
      1. 0255
        0255 20 October 2014 14: 58 New
        +1
        You can’t be lured about the future of Ukrainian weapons? And I don’t give a damn about the pluses, minus me as much as you want
  • opus
    opus 20 October 2014 15: 30 New
    +2
    Quote: Author Valery Boval, Dneprodzerzhinsk, Ukraine
    In the light of recent events in Ukraine, it becomes quite clear that with the active support of Western states and the United States, Ukraine will gradually be included in the scope of standards of these states, including the military.

    1.Sweden "walked" for 20 years to this.
    2. The Young Europeans are still on the way, and this is the duty, and some people will not pull (Bulgaria)
    3. Such a transition to NATO standards I suppose completely bury the military-industrial complex and the economy of Ukraine:
    -From arms sellers, Ukraine will turn into buyers (but potential, since it's not what to buy)
    - More than 70% of suppliers of systems and components for Ukrainian defense enterprises located in Russiaa portfolio of Russian civil and military orders in 2014 placed at Ukrainian enterprises, amounted to about $ 15 billion, or 8,2% of Ukraine’s GDP.
    ======================
    In order to finally go bankrupt, to be recognized and to break with Muscovites, I suggest Ukraine TO GO TO the European railway track

    STANAG - Standardization Agreement - "Standardization Agreement"
    NATO Supply Classifier
    INCHES !!!
    Gauges are measured in millimeters or fractions of an inch. Inch = 25.4mm. In Russia and most other countries, calibers are measured in millimeters. In the UK, caliber is measured in thousandths of an inch, and in the USA in hundredths of an inch. A gauge of 0.5 inches in the United States will be designated - .50, and in the UK - .500, where zero is not put before the dot. In Russia, the caliber is measured by a smaller size

    , and in NATO - for the most part
    http://www.gost.ru/wps/portal/pages.ACodP2


    Polska Zbrojna: "that after the announcement by the government of the country (Poland) of a large-scale program for the modernization of the army, according to which it is planned to allocate about 2013 billion zlotys in 2022-130 (33,5 billion), Europe launched a serious competition for arms supplies to Warsaw. The French consortium Eurosam (a joint venture of Thales and MBDA groups) and the American Raytheon with the Patriot, AgustaWestland AW149, EC725 Caracal and Sikorsky Black Hawk anti-aircraft missile systems entered the fray for the air defense market,
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 20 October 2014 15: 58 New
      +2
      Quote: opus
      INCHES !!! Gauges are measured in millimeters or fractions of an inch. Inch = 25.4mm. In Russia and most other countries, calibers are measured in millimeters.

      Well, what does it matter? I do not standardize calibers or their names, but specific cartridges with specific characteristics, at the moment it’s 9X19, 5,56x45, 7,62X51, in that spelling.
      1. opus
        opus 20 October 2014 16: 21 New
        0
        Quote: gross kaput
        Well, what does it matter?

        1.In order to produce a product of the standard in INCHES, it is necessary to have the RELATED EQUIPMENT (machine park) and semi-finished products (sheet, bar, casting) the same in inches
        2. In order to collect, disassemble, maintain, the operator
      2. opus
        opus 20 October 2014 16: 38 New
        0
        Quote: gross kaput
        Well, what does it matter?

        1.In order to produce a product of the standard in INCHES, it is necessary to have the RELATED EQUIPMENT (machine park) and semi-finished products (sheet, bar, casting) the same in inches
        2.In order to assemble, disassemble, maintain, operate, you must have a tool and measuring instruments (ruler, caliper) in inches
        Inch thread can be different (UNC, UNf, BrW, pipe thread ...).
        Inch fasteners differ from metric not only in thread, but also in a number of parameters.
        Pay attention to the fact that even the washers must be purchased for it, checking whether they fit in the inner diameter.
        The angle of the thread apex of the inch fastener is different from the metric.
        The principle of calculating the thread pitch is different from the metric.
        etc.


        B-4, was an exact copy of B-29 -. It got to the point that the design unit used inches, which were then converted to millimeters. However, a problem was associated with this, entailed some deterioration in flight performance compared to the original: used in the B-29 duralumin sheet with a thickness of 1/16 inch in the USSR was not produced, so instead was used a little thicker sheet, which entailed a slightly larger mass of the aircraft. The same problem was with the wiring.: in order to guarantee the conduction parameters of the cable network of an inch cross section, bthicker cables from metric wire produced in the USSR. The total difference in weight was very significant.
        Quote: gross kaput
        in such a spelling.

        And here ONLY caliber cartridges?
        Quote: Author Valery Boval, Dneprodzerzhinsk, Ukraine
        In the light of recent events in Ukraine, it becomes quite obvious that with the active support of Western states and the USA, Ukraine will gradually be included in the sphere of standards of these states, including the military.
        1. gross kaput
          gross kaput 20 October 2014 18: 44 New
          +3
          Do not carry garbage, NATO standards in the field of shooting relate only to the nomenclature of ammunition (or rather, their interchangeability) and in the recommendatory part, the ability to use standard stores / bands and also use attachments.
          Quote: opus
          And here ONLY caliber cartridges?

          Moreover, the uncle that those countries that joined or planned to join NATO after the collapse of the Airborne Forces simply started to release versions of AKs for 5,56 at already established enterprises - tantalums, beryls, frets and other AK-shaped ones.
          Quote: opus
          1.In order to produce a product of the standard in INCHES, it is necessary to have the RELATED EQUIPMENT (machine park) and semi-finished products (sheet, bar, casting) the same in inches

          Do not try to compare your finger with ... a pencil, the production of a shooting gun is not a copy of a strategic bomber, well, besides, there is an inch special tool at any enterprise, and universal machines will be very happy that the original hardware was in inches and not in millimeters.
          PS I’ll tell you a terrible secret - I translated the drawings of the Thompson 1928 from inches to millimeters - all the work took me a total of 8 hours.
          1. opus
            opus 21 October 2014 13: 41 New
            0
            Quote: gross kaput
            do not carry garbage,

            You’re carrying garbage. Looks like you’re following the jargon!
            If your rectum fits directly into your brain, you don’t need to pour this on others.
            Read carefully (if you can):
            STANAG - Standardization Agreement
            http://nso.nato.int/nso/
            The agreement forms the basis for technical interchangeability among a wide variety of communication and information systems, establishes and defines methods, procedures, terminology and conditions for unification as part of a single armed forces or technical operations or equipment, (material part) among the member states of the Organization.
            Quote: gross kaput
            just started to release versions of AK for 5,56

            all around and about only one STANAG 4512, and their total number is slightly smaller than xnumx
            Quote: gross kaput
            Do not try to compare your finger with ... a pencil

            Do not try to shine with "intelligence" in the absence of it in you.

            Quote: gross kaput
            sincerely fuck

            This is "your" machines so, but the normal is not shit.
            For "advanced" (in the wrong direction)
            ½ hex bolt - 13 x 1 ¾, where the first number is the thread diameter, the second is the thread pitch (13 turns per inch), and the third is the length of the bolt. Close Metric Bolt - M12 - 45 in increments of -1,75 mm It is not an analogue of an inch and can not be used as a replacement in a screw connection, and in a bolt connection only together with the M12 metric nut.

            CNC machines for metal / ID: 20773: Setting up a screw-cutting lathe for threading

            Quote: gross kaput
            PS I will tell you a terrible secret

            sorry.
            1.) CD is executed in 2D DeltaCaADa? You need to translate the drawings into ACAD, check the correctness of setting the INSUNITS variable.
            2.) 1 inch = 2.54000000000003 centimeter, 3 in 14 position taken into account? gathered? did not have to use a sledgehammer?
            3) For a "particularly advanced" user, I would advise you to remove the acc. Battery at least once on VW Tuareg, Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne.
            THERE is all metric,alone to the instrument market right away.
            This is me to the question of tools and inches
            1. gross kaput
              gross kaput 21 October 2014 17: 19 New
              0
              Quote: opus
              all around and about only one STANAG 4512, and their total number is slightly less than 1300

              Shaw and you studied them all ?! belay taking off my hat! laughing
              Well, then you will probably be very surprised that NATO standards, at least in the shooter, are given in the metric system of measures - for example, while the picatinny bar is American MIL-STD-1913, the drawing is given in inches, but as soon as it became NATO's STANAG 2324 Duc immediately "obscured" ... And in general, it is not clear to what it was zaposhenno? Show the power of intelligence or the ability to use Google?
              Quote: opus
              The agreement creates the basis for technical interchangeability among a wide variety of communication and information systems, establishes and defines methods, procedures, terminology and conditions for unification within the framework of the unified armed forces or technical operations or equipment (material part) among the member states of the Organization.

              If you do not get it - then I will explain - this thread is called "individual weapons" and they discuss relevant topics here and not the thickness of NATO diapers in inches and not a spherical horse in vacuum.
              Further, in the field of shooting, NATO standardized primarily cartridges - and this concerns not only geometry but all parameters up to the material of the cartridge case and sensitivity of the capsule, and for you it will probably be a revelation that the standard assault rifle cartridge in NATO is called not .223win but 5,56X45NATO, and it will probably be a shock for you that the American cartridge and the Belgian ss109 are not accepted as standard in NATO.
              Secondly, stores and cartridge tapes are standardized, but not by design, but only by interchangeability, and in the third mount of optics, special stages, muzzle geometry and devices for shooting standard barreled grenades, but by the way, they can close their eyes, the main cartridge.
              A striking example is the Polish KbkS wz 96 Beryl, the submachine gun is a modified AK-74, developed after Poland joined NATO and, in fact, meets the requirements only for the cartridge and the possibility of firing grenades.
              Quote: opus
              ½ hex bolt - 13 x 1 ¾, where the first number is the thread diameter, the second is the thread pitch (13 turns per inch), and the third is the length of the bolt. A close-in metric bolt - M12 - 45 with a pitch of -1,75 mm is not an analogue of an inch and can not be used as a replacement in a screw connection, and in a bolt - only together with a metric nut M12.

              But tell me in leopard ali in leklerk threaded connections inch ali metric?
              And in the American M-256 tank gun, are inch ali metric standards?
            2. gross kaput
              gross kaput 21 October 2014 17: 19 New
              0
              Quote: opus
              3) For a "particularly advanced" user, I would advise you to remove the battery on VW Tuareg, Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne at least once. Everything is metric THERE, but on the instrument market at once.

              Well, in principle, this explains everything, you reputable forum made a mistake on the forum for motorists on my back, there they are just discussing these topics, maybe I have

              Quote: opus
              Do not try to shine with "intelligence" in the absence of it in you.

              but nevertheless it is enough so as not to climb on the forums of motorists or cutting and sewing with "smart" posts, can you follow my example and go trolling the owners of Volkswagen?
  • 31rus
    31rus 20 October 2014 16: 38 New
    +1
    Everything is clear to everyone, there is no disagreement again, well, they tore it off, let God stamp with them, continue to ruin their country, their people, how about the EU, NATO, let them go let the sinners go, but I don’t think about that yet, we’ll see it soon
  • Wolf
    Wolf 20 October 2014 16: 39 New
    +1
    You can see the assembly of modifications Galil in Ukraine! Galil are good, but he is already out of date! He’s just a good modification of the AK! After a small break in small arms he beat AEK 971, 972, 973 in 80 years in the USSR! Someone tried to make sure that the bios weren’t brought to mind and finished and started to be put in the army! ;) 5a column is very strong in Russia!
  • MRomanovich
    MRomanovich 20 October 2014 17: 14 New
    +4
    I won't tell you about ACE, but Galil's previous modifications are good things. I have not yet met ACE user reviews, and I have not looked specifically, but they are unlikely to be worse than other modern samples. Another thing is how it is presented - "Ukrainian novelty", "Ukrainian rifle". But in fact, this copy was only collected in Ukraine and there is nothing Ukrainian in this sample. Absolutely nothing! There is only the name "Fort".
  • lichide
    lichide 20 October 2014 17: 57 New
    +2
    Someone got confused by the "lines", right now we'll unravel! The aiming range of the weapon does not depend on the length of the aiming line. The longer the aiming line, the better for the novice shooter. Well, the sighting range of each weapon is indicated on its sighting device in numbers. Someone like. From one to eight, tens or numbers of a greater value, indicating the sighting range in hundreds of meters. Some pistols also have hundreds, but Stechkin's have them in meters. Now about the trunks. Clear hell, the longer the barrel, the farther and more accurately the projectile flies. And no matter how we hang our barrel at three or four points, when fired, a pressure of 4000 atmospheres arises in it and this pressure hits the walls so that the barrel bends like a rubber hose spits out a bullet with a real deviation from its longitudinal axis. This difference in angular units is called the departure angle. In AKM, the departure angle is positive, that is, above the axis of the barrel, in the AK-74 it is negative. But this is a military secret and not everyone knows about the ent.
  • wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 20 October 2014 18: 24 New
    0
    So-so weapons, nothing particularly outstanding, a hybrid of M-16 and AK. But then "as it were".
    The patrons will probably beg from NATO, under the slogan "For democracy throughout the world!" and "For the national interests of the United States to the last Ukrainian!"
    Dear YUBORG and ArhipenkoAndrey, quite accurately, have already written about the organization of production on the spot.
  • kplayer
    kplayer 20 October 2014 19: 35 New
    +2
    http://www.israel-weapon.com/

    There are downloadable pdf files.
  • Swetliy
    Swetliy 20 October 2014 20: 05 New
    0
    Advertising is certainly great! Well, where else is there anything other than words? !!!
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 20 October 2014 20: 25 New
      0
      Quote: Swetliy
      Advertising is certainly great! Well, where else is there anything other than words? !!!

      Well, firstly in Vietnam, Galil bypassed the AK. But in general, this model has already been chewed here.
      http://topwar.ru/19932-ak-12-pridumali-v-izraile-obzor-avtomata-galil-ace.html
      1. Wolf
        Wolf 20 October 2014 20: 54 New
        0
        Aron vi rule! Galil is a bit lush than AK! Galil are good, but he is already out of date! He's just a good modification of the AK! Having drifted in small arms, he beat AEK 971, 972, 973 in 80 years in the USSR! What bi-oudi sang, what AEK 971,972,973 represents for itself, so sa Galilom and sa AK in the queue of vi you get about ca 1 puom, and sa AEK vi you get ca 3-5 pu in a circle of 10 cm! The feeling in the lucky man is so much like a cannon shell hit him! Someone tried to make sure that the bios weren’t brought to mind and finished and started to be put in the army! The children themselves also transported the warrior to Ukraine and zombified the population of the Nazi Ukro Zombiјa or Marsiјantsov! ;)
      2. gross kaput
        gross kaput 20 October 2014 21: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: Aron Zaavi
        Well, firstly in Vietnam, Galil bypassed the AK.

        Just do not distort, it was not Galil who circumvented it but the construction of a plant for its production, which we unfortunately could not offer.
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 20 October 2014 21: 59 New
          +4
          Quote: gross kaput

          Just do not distort, it was not Galil who circumvented it but the construction of a plant for its production, which we unfortunately could not offer.

          it's not even funny. In Venezuela they could, but in Vietnam they couldn’t? I think you yourself understand the failure of such a promise. Moreover, the Vietnamese were primarily interested in the performance characteristics of promising weapons, although the price certainly mattered. Sometimes bargaining takes several years.
          1. gross kaput
            gross kaput 20 October 2014 22: 33 New
            +1
            Well, Duc, as it were, we requested 250 for the contract, and Israel 170 - that’s all the arithmetic; it was Galil or AK-103 who lost or won, but a purely economic factor. So once again I do not need to distort what exactly the iron won.
            ПThe offer for the series 100 Kalashnikovs was optimal: the soldiers would not have to get used to new types of automatic weapons again.
            However, Vietnam was embarrassed by too high a price. - about $ 250 million, while the Israeli - about $ 170 million. The Chinese proposal, the Ministry of Defense of Vietnam was not initially interested, allowing him to participate solely for political reasons.
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi 20 October 2014 22: 42 New
              +3
              Quote: gross kaput
              Well, Duc, as it were, we requested 250 for the contract, and Israel 170 - that’s all the arithmetic; it was Galil or AK-103 who lost or won, but a purely economic factor. So once again I do not need to distort what exactly the iron won.
              ПThe offer for the series 100 Kalashnikovs was optimal: the soldiers would not have to get used to new types of automatic weapons again.
              However, Vietnam was embarrassed by too high a price. - about $ 250 million, while the Israeli - about $ 170 million. The Chinese proposal, the Ministry of Defense of Vietnam was not initially interested, allowing him to participate solely for political reasons.

              Firstly, this is not money for Vietnam to buy weapons with worse performance characteristics. Secondly, Galil ACE also reached the final of the Indian tender, which indicates a good level of hardware.
              1. Aleks28
                Aleks28 20 October 2014 22: 56 New
                +2
                What are you arguing about? Galil is the Israeli AK (the Israelis don’t even hide it) It just can be called a tuned version of the AK. According to some sources, this affected reliability, and for some it became more convenient to use. It was not carried out. One can say that there are not many differences in performance characteristics.
                1. Aaron Zawi
                  Aaron Zawi 21 October 2014 00: 04 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Allex28
                  What are you arguing about? Galil is the Israeli AK (the Israelis don’t even hide it) It just can be called a tuned version of the AK. According to some sources, this affected reliability, and for some it became more convenient to use. It was not carried out. One can say that there are not many differences in performance characteristics.

                  This is not entirely true. T / e was taken as a basis by AK, but only as a basis.
                  http://otvaga2004.ru/kaleydoskop/kaleydoskop-inf/galil/
                  And the new Galil, he took a far step from his parent.
                  1. Aleks28
                    Aleks28 21 October 2014 07: 37 New
                    +1
                    Stop clinging to the details. And there is nothing far away. The only improvement is the adapter for the M-16 and that’s all, well, maybe it’s a straight butt, but the grandmother said for two. I personally like the old butt model better (it’s faster to aim for a snap). And you can write anything. The variable barrel length is the same dubious advantage. I can say the same about the muzzle compensator.
                  2. gross kaput
                    gross kaput 21 October 2014 09: 36 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Aron Zaavi
                    This is not entirely true. T / e was taken as a basis by AK, but only as a basis.

                    Well, without a doubt, the butt from the halyard and the M16 flame arrester allow us to talk about Galil as a purely Israeli development, and the presence of a slide delay and the transfer of the handle to the left side of the ACE generally put an end to kinship with AK laughing
                    You tell it somewhere on the forums of housewives - they will believe, but for those who are in the subject, he was like a "Jewish AK" so they will remain.
      3. bmv04636
        bmv04636 21 October 2014 09: 34 New
        -1
        kickback is simple Jewish friends offered more that's all miracles.
        1. Aleks28
          Aleks28 21 October 2014 16: 52 New
          0
          Quote: bmv04636
          kickback is simple Jewish friends offered more that's all miracles.

          This option is also not excluded. Our generally worthless managers .. recourse
          1. Campo731
            Campo731 27 November 2014 12: 35 New
            0
            Why some bad stuff ???
            Their hands need to grow bigger, and the fins don’t kick romances .... now they’re making up
  • Massik
    Massik 20 October 2014 22: 16 New
    +2
    And then, in general, the outskirts?))) The submachine gun is good, but it is Israeli and certainly not suburban. It’s quite possible to set up and fight open.
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 20 October 2014 22: 30 New
      0
      Well, as it were, there is a whole pillar on it, as well as a front sight.
      1. Massik
        Massik 21 October 2014 18: 01 New
        0
        You distinguish between open rear sight and diopter?)))
        1. gross kaput
          gross kaput 22 October 2014 15: 39 New
          0
          Well, since you are such a GREAT specialist and are so anxious about the terms, then you should know that in the Russian Federation there is no such term as "open rear sight" - there is the concept of "open sight" which can be frame, sector, rack-mount and, depending on the version, can have either a rear sight with a slot or a diopter with an answer, so it's not clear why you were so suddenly surprised that I just didn't understand your purely professional terminology,
          and so, as an add-on, as your common term sounds in official domestic NSDs

          Rifle Arr. 1891, SVT, AK, AKM, SKS, SVD - reticle with mane
          Maxim machine gun obr1910 - hinged sight with a movable whole
          SG-43 aiming frame and clamp with the whole
          RPD, RPK, PC - aiming bar with the whole
          Fedorov assault rifle - sighting frame
          PPS, AKS74U - sight with a rotary whole
  • Raphael_83
    Raphael_83 20 October 2014 22: 50 New
    +1
    this is a new step in the rifle segment of the Ukrainian defense complex.

    "Well, yes, well, yes, I am also a Martian military threat!" (Job, "Access Code - Paradise").
    It is incomprehensible to me: here I mean pride in the fact that they switched to a new model (which is not new at all, in fact, it is basically the basic Galil, and, moreover, not of its own design, but licensed) or the transition to European-NATO -adapted cliché of weapons of "good guys" (this is not a criticism of the model, but only the leadership of Independent!)?
    1. Campo731
      Campo731 27 November 2014 12: 28 New
      0
      I agree.
      Well, if you have developed (YES WHEN WHEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!), why are AK 74 still used? smile what, money is not enough for these fools in the Parliament of money?


      And they made a feast! No longer crap, but crap
  • Campo731
    Campo731 27 November 2014 12: 22 New
    0
    It seems to me, or do they look like emki?