IBM is going to surprise the world with “energy-sunshine”

Engineers from Airlight Energy and IBM Research have created an installation that can convert to electricity and heat up to 80% of sunlight. An inexpensive and incredibly efficient energy system can enter the international market through 3, in 2017. The prototype of the power plant, which is able to change the face of modern energy has already been presented to the public. The combined unit, which IBM engineers worked on, combines the functions of a solar collector that collects heat and a photovoltaic panel that is responsible for generating electricity.

At one time, Airlight Energy, IBM Research, ETH Zurich and the Interstate University of Applied Science and Technology received 2,4 million dollars from the Swiss Technology and Innovation Commission. These funds were allocated for research and the creation of a high-performance photovoltaic system, which was designated High Concentration PhotoVoltaic Thermal (HCPVT).

Presented by experts Airlight Energy and IBM Research installation looks like a large sunflower. Its mirror is composed of 36 parabolic mirrors of ultra-low thickness (total 0,2 mm) with a total area of ​​40 square meters. The mirror is mounted on a concrete support, which is made of special fibrous concrete. Energy Sunflower is able to concentrate sunlight and amplify it immediately 2000 times, directing a beam of light to a special photovoltaic panel, which is equipped with microchannels for cooling. This panel consists of small cells with dimensions of just 1x1 cm, each such cell being able to generate up to 57 W of electricity. In total, the panel is able to produce up to 12 kW of electricity on a sunny day, and the cooling system of such a “sunflower” collects up to 20 kW of solar heat.

The power of this power system is quite enough to supply several ordinary houses with electricity and hot water. At the same time the support of this installation is inexpensive in construction and can be made for specific objects of architecture. The surface of the mirror is covered with a special layer of thin plastic, which performs the function of protecting the reflective surface from precipitation in the form of hail, rain, snow, and also from the encroachments of animals.

According to IBM representatives, the most difficult part of the power plant was the design of a cooling system for photovoltaic panels, which the solar concentrator of the device heated to 2000 degrees Celsius. This difficult problem was solved by using a micro-channel cooling system. This system was developed jointly by IBM and Airlight Energy from Switzerland. Thanks to the introduction of this system, "energy-sunflower" is able to work for quite a long time, and its photovoltaic panels do not burn for a few seconds. According to IBM’s engineers, the photovoltaic panel will need to be replaced every quarter of a century, and the total lifetime of the sunflower should be 60 years.

Unlike all existing models of photovoltaic systems that are able to generate only electricity, and the excess heat is simply removed to the atmosphere, the HCPVT system, on the contrary, uses thermal energy for air conditioning and desalination. The proposed system can be built in any place in which there is an urgent need for the supply of electricity, drinking water and cold air. It is reported that the cost of building a similar installation in 3 times lower than that of similar systems. New development of scientists can be useful to residents of southern Europe, the Arabian Peninsula, Australia, south-west of North America, South America. That is, all those places that need air cooling and desalination.

To obtain fresh water, IBM engineers use technology that they have developed, but for high-performance water-cooled computers. For example, water, which absorbs heat from the operation of the supercomputer of the company Aquasar and SuperMUC, is later used for space heating.

According to the statements of the authors of the energy sunflower project, the cost of manufacturing such a design does not exceed 250 dollars per square meter, which is 3 times lower than the cost of analog systems. In this case, the device provides for the generation of electricity costing less than 10 cents per kilowatt-hour. As a comparison, there is a reduced tariff for electricity, valid in Germany and equal to 25 cents. The cost of energy, which is produced by a coal power plant, is approximately 5-10 cents per kilowatt-hour.

At this point in time, the prototype of the HCPVT installation is being tested under laboratory conditions in Zurich. IBM Research specialists promise that they will be able to see their power plant in the 2017 year, while its final cost is not disclosed. But the "sunflower" is made from inexpensive materials and has a simple design, which should contribute to the achievement of a relatively low cost of the device.

It is reported that such "sunflowers" can be used not only in cities, but also in geographically remote corners of the planet. The system is not suitable for installation on roofs of buildings. It affects a lot of weight - about 10 tons and dimensions - 40 square meters. In this case, the invention can be quite useful for large hotels, shopping centers and various resorts.

Information sources:
http://zoom.cnews.ru/rnd/news/top/energopodsolnuh_ibm_vyjdet_na_rynok_cherez_3_goda
http://hi-news.ru/technology/na-grani-vozmozhnogo-ibm-razrabotala-vysokoproizvoditelnyj-solnechnyj-kollektor.html
http://energysafe.ru/alternative_energy/alternative_energy/1570
http://elektrovesti.net/34577_ibm-razrabotal-solnechnuyu-panel-kotoraya-ochishchaet-vozdukh-i-vodu

Comments

[Professor]

The “Energy Sunflower” is able to concentrate sunlight and amplify it immediately 2000 times, directing the light beam to a special photoelectric panel, which is equipped with microchannels for cooling.

"Strengthen" - no, "concentrate" - yes.

The surface of the mirror is covered with a special layer of thin plastic, which performs the function of protecting the reflecting surface from atmospheric precipitation in the form of hail, rain, snow, as well as from animal encroachment.

And how about even dust? She is known to be the main scourge of solar energy.

In general, the idea is interesting. Stop burning hydrocarbons and feed all sorts of modes.

[bmv04636]

Yeah Israel unlucky fell 1 billion forever green

[corporal]

Quote: professor

And how about even dust? She is known to be the main scourge of solar energy.

Washers due to the same desalinated water.
As I understand it, water is still connected to the unit, or not?

[Professor]

Quote: Corporal

Washers due to the same desalinated water.
As I understand it, water is still connected to the unit, or not?

In addition, a new development can used for desalination and air cooling, which is very useful for residents of southern Europe, Africa, the Arabian Peninsula, southwest North America, South America and Australia.


Do not see there irrigation systems

[Shur]

Duck, and what about the "new" technologies.
"ShineOn is a thin coating based on nanotechnology that was developed by SCF Technologies. The coating chemically interacts with the glass to create a layer that uses solar energy to" burn off "dirt on the glass, leaving any excess is removed from its surface, washed away by the rain. "

[Turik]

In addition, the new development can be used for desalination of water and air cooling, which is very useful for residents of southern Europe, Africa

Africa? They don’t even have money for a bowl of hominy, and you are talking about solar panels. Europe can and will use this tsatsku. Arabs are unlikely - as long as they have oil, they will not work. Unless a sheikh will set some for himself in a harem for show-offs.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: professor

"concentrate" - yes.

The mathematician, architect and sculptor Anthimius, who lived in the VI century A.D., created a system of 24 mirrors. The scientist used unknown sources, in which there were descriptions of the system of mirrors of Archimedes. To test the combat qualities of such a system, Anthimius burned the house of a neighbor who bothered him.
In general, the idea is not new.

Quote: professor

Stop burning hydrocarbons and feed all sorts of modes.

The United States has become the world leader in hydrocarbon production, or is about to leave.

[Gambit]

Miracles, and only ... the trouble with the solar cells is that they vigorously burn out even from ordinary sunlight, which already speaks of a concentration 2000 times greater. As far as I know, parabalic mirrors or in general the principle of concentration of a light beam are used in solar power plants based on the Stirling engine.

Honestly, when I opened the article, I was sure that I would see something similar, and here again the photocells are stupid.

[i80186]

Let them think up what they want, counted out of grief, in our territory, 15 new nuclear power units with a total capacity of 10-12 GW are being built, which is approximately equal to a couple of millions of such sunflowers. So go ahead with the song, IBM is definitely doing the right thing, yeah.

[parusnik]

But our nanotechnology under the leadership of Chubais, please .. with the like can not ..

[Vadim237]

And they will not be able to, according to these guys, especially Chubais and his deputy in Rossnano, the prison does not just cry but sobs for a long time.

[Shur]

He has more cheating technologies coming out. Although we must pay tribute to the screen, nevertheless some interesting projects were supported.

[corporal]

Quote: parusnik

under the leadership of Chubais, to please .. with the like can not ..

Comrade, have you fallen from the moon ??? Such technology of RAO EU as an awl in the ass. Who will then buy their electricity (that is, Chubais)?
He will not shit in his own pocket

[Weniamin]

Don't worry dear. The prime cost of solar electricity is such that photovoltaic power plants pay off in 15-20 years. Whereas the service life of photocells is 7-10 years. And they make up at least 40% of the equipment cost. Moreover, the annual insolation in Russia does not allow the development of an acceptable efficiency factor. So it is not a competitor for RAO EU. The trekking system of this design can withstand winds of 15-17 m / s. So these "sunflowers" can be installed in relatively calm or windproof places.
For remote and inaccessible villages I did projects up to 100 kW. so I know what I'm talking about.

[atalef]

Quote: Weniamin

Do not worry dear. The cost of solar electricity is such that photovoltaic stations pay off in 15-20 years. Whereas the service life of solar cells is 7-10 years

I dare to disappoint you, all the photo voltages (we have private ones) and believe me, there are no suckers. without calculating the feasibility study no one would have been involved in this business. And it pays off in 12 years (with us). In other countries, it can be different. Depends on the tariff
Now Chinese panels are just a penny, with good quality and a guarantee of 7 years

Quote: Weniamin

And they make up at least 40% in the cost of equipment.

Why not 90%?

Quote: Weniamin

For remote and inaccessible villages I did projects up to 100 kW. so I know what I'm talking about.

And why put it? If everything is so bad 9 what did you describe before? )

[Weniamin]

And it pays off in 12 years (with us)

Only if FES works for the system.

Now Chinese panels are just a penny, with good quality and a guarantee of 7 years

The quality of the issue is very, very controversial. At the end of the warranty period, the efficiency of the panels is reduced by 30%, and by 10 years of operation up to 50%.

Why not 90%?

It all depends on the type of FZS - network or autonomous.

And why put it? If everything is so bad 9 what did you describe before? )

Federal program. In settlements where it is not economically feasible to conduct power lines, gas power plants or FES were installed. In some cases, with a stable wind load combined FES + wind turbines.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Corporal

Comrade, have you fallen from the moon ??? Such technology of RAO EU as an awl in the ass. Who will then buy their electricity (that is, Chubais)?
He will not shit in his own pocket

After Chubais conducted RAO UES, something was not heard on the news about the blackout.

[IS-80]

Quote: Corporal

Who will then buy their electricity (that is, Chubais)?

If anything, he has long been there, not at RAO UES.

[ramsi]

somehow it’s very difficult: the mirrors are on the photovoltaic panel, and not the photovoltaic panels of the same area with the collected heat

[ramsi]

or maybe there are no photocells in this nozzle, but is there some kind of bimetallic drive of an ordinary dynamo? ..

[bmv04636]

photovoltaic panels question what are they made of and what is their efficiency

[Nitarius]

ANOTHER GREEN Nonsense!
GAZ is blocked and the bottom of the ass warms up sunflowers!
IDEA is old as PEACE ...

[atalef]

Quote: Nitarius

ANOTHER GREEN Nonsense!
GAZ is blocked and the bottom of the ass warms up sunflowers!
IDEA is old as PEACE ...

If this corresponds to the declared characteristics, this is a huge step in the generation of electricity, coupled with energy-saving lighting, will reduce to a large extent the dependence of the electric power industry on hydrocarbons
I’m not even talking about the need for networks and substations in this case. Small, remote settlements in this case will be non-volatile and by combining several stations in a bush, with a battery charge (for conversion at night), the generator is in reserve and ... I would say, the potential for these systems is so huge that this breakthrough can drastically change the generation of electricity, especially in southern countries, and every kilowatt generated on alternative sources is less than carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and petrodollars in the pockets of odious regimes.
I remember the first ice lamps were worth a lot of money. now it’s just a penny — smart lighting systems, light tracking, etc. — these are real, photovoltaic energy is real, and for example in Israel it is already 5% of generating capacities, and there will be more, you won’t stop it.
Good news, plus definitely

[Lopatov]

Quote: atalef

this is a huge step in the generation of electricity

And a step back. Wise developers, of course, "forgot" that classic solar power plants are able to accumulate superheated salt and provide electricity not only when the sun is shining.

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

Quote: atalef

this is a huge step in the generation of electricity

And a step back. Wise developers, of course, "forgot" that classic solar power plants are able to accumulate superheated salt and provide electricity not only when the sun is shining.

Superheated salt is just a way to accumulate energy, but these stations are huge and expensive.
There is talk about small generations. From a unit of 12 kW. to the ability to collect them into entire networks

[Lopatov]

"Small generations"? What for? Here, the larger the size, the higher the efficiency. In any case, it is stupid to autonomously power one house with such a sunflower.

In short, an empty cut / mod. Everything can be done much easier and more efficient even in the alternative energy segment.

For example, a small city in the same Israel. During the day - a solar power plant, at night the use of the resource of landfills and livestock complexes (methane) plus incineration. Heating and hot water at the expense of the same, plus cheap thermal panels on the roofs of houses and heat pumps. It's much cheaper and more efficient than IBM's glamorous "sunflowers" in every home.

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

Small generations "? Why? Here the larger the size, the higher the efficiency.

Why? This is relevant for combustible power plants. generators, etc.
There is a direct conversion of electric energy and efficiency unchanged

Quote: Spade

In any case, it is foolish to autonomously feed one house with such a sunflower.

Why

Quote: Spade

Everything can be done much easier and more efficient even in the alternative energy segment.

Quote: Spade

For example, a small city in the same Israel. During the day, a solar power station; at night, the use of the resource of landfills and livestock complexes (methane) plus incineration.

This entire system must be considered in a complex (as in general the electric system is counted up to 0. Then no one canceled the reliability. The house can withstand a break in food, hospital and school more difficult.
Imagine situation 9 as in general it works) there is a feeder from the state network. photovoltage provides consumers with electric energy. recharges batteries. throws the surplus into the net. In the event of a lack of electric energy or an accident - power is supplied through state input
By the way, there is nothing new here - let's say the principles of dynamic braking on electric locomotives. when braking energy is converted into electric energy and given out to set
By the way, new elevators (with us) use the same principle and
differences in the weight of the counterweight and the cab — they either consume electric power or are supplied to the network.

[Lopatov]

Quote: atalef

This whole system must be considered in combination

Exactly. A "sunflower" shtukentsiya designed for autonomous work. When included in the complex, it loses all meaning.

Quote: atalef

charges batteries

The only one I know is somewhere in Alaska. And so they get by with simpler methods - a variety of sources connected into a single network.

By the way, the same British refused large batteries, preferring to accumulate energy by pumping water into reservoirs. At the peak of the load, they corny include new power units, and this water works out its own. Efficiency is less, but the solution is much cheaper.

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

Exactly. A "sunflower" shtukentsiya designed for autonomous work. When included in the complex, it loses all meaning.

Why?

Quote: Spade

By the way, the same British refused large batteries, preferring to accumulate energy by pumping water into reservoirs. At the peak of the load, they corny include new power units, and this water works out its own. Efficiency is less, but the solution is much cheaper.

You mean the PSPP is a completely different conversation.

[IS-80]

Quote: atalef

I remember the first ice lamps were worth a lot of money. now it’s just a penny — smart lighting systems, light tracking, etc. — these are real, photovoltaic energy is real, and for example in Israel it is already 5% of generating capacities, and there will be more, you won’t stop it.
Good news, plus definitely

Have you read few such news in your life? That's it, just a little bit more and a victory! How much news was about breakthrough technologies and at least in the manufacture of batteries and what? Wait a minute, then when they launch this miracle of science and technology into real operation with real economic benefits, then rejoice.

[atalef]

Quote: IS-80

Have you read few such news in your life? That's it, just a little bit more and a victory!

Why a victory? Normal progress towards energy conservation.
I am sure they will invent something more interesting. Progress is underway

Quote: IS-80

How much news was about breakthrough technologies and at least in the manufacture of batteries and what?

Batteries last longer. and fuel cells (while roads are 0, but dashing trouble began.

Quote: IS-80

Wait a minute, then when they launch this miracle of science and technology into real operation with real economic benefits, then rejoice.

the photovoltage works 9 but 10 years ago, 0 could not even think. ice. fuel cells - all this is included in and in 5-10 years we will already take it for granted.
If you were told 10 years ago. that every dog ​​will have a cell phone. would you believe

[IS-80]

Quote: atalef

Why a victory? Normal progress towards energy conservation.
I am sure they will invent something more interesting. Progress is underway

Progress yes, but often not so revolutionary. They will undoubtedly invent something to argue about.

Quote: atalef

Batteries last longer. and fuel cells (while roads are 0, but dashing trouble began.

Yes they do. But in the news, they often announce the emergence of technologies that seem to be really disruptive and should increase certain parameters at times, but in fact they are often zilch or a maximum of 10-15 percent.

Quote: atalef

the photovoltage works 9 but 10 years ago, 0 could not even think. ice. fuel cells - all this is included in and in 5-10 years we will already take it for granted.

Yes, but I’m tired of reading the news, and then nothing comes out.

Quote: atalef

If you were told 10 years ago. that every dog ​​will have a cell phone. would you believe

10 years ago I knew this, because you do not have to be a prophet to foresee this.

[Codename49]

Yes, in the future, hybrid animals will produce energy, not sunflowers!

[bmv04636]

Yes, green energy, or as it is also called from renewable sources in Europe, is a big and big divorce paid by the consumer i.e. Euro collective farmers. If not for subsidies, it would have long been bent. And it is not green at all when creating dirt photocells no less than when burning traditional fuel. Windmills carry their share of sound and vibration pollution.

[atalef]

Quote: bmv04636

Yes, green energy, or as it is also called from renewable sources in Europe, is a big and big divorce paid by the consumer i.e. Euro collective farmers. If not for subsidies, it would have long been bent. And it is not green at all when creating dirt photocells no less than when burning traditional fuel. Windmills carry their share of sound and vibration pollution.

You do not know what it is about, at the first stages it was sponsored by the state and the same in terms of the difference in tariff, now

[bmv04636]

it is a green energy type and now sits on grants as the traditional one pays for it; look at the rates on the euro collective farm for the latest data, and then hang noodles on your ears. So what about the pollution of supposedly clean energy, you and not taps

[atalef]

Quote: bmv04636

it’s a green energy type and now sits on grants as the traditional one pays for it, look at the rates on the euro collective farm for the latest data, and then hang noodles on your ears

I don’t know which collective farms you have information on, I know the tariffs for photovoltaic energy in our country, and it is almost equal to the low voltage tariffs. companies, we are not talking about high-voltage tariffs - but this is not a niche of photovoltaic cells

[bmv04636]

About their economy, whose army is dated by the SGA and you can’t tell tales, and in the tariffs for electricity in the euro collective farm for traditional producers sits green energy, and the collective farmers pay euros for it. So you did not explain where to get pollution from the production of solar cells, batteries

[atalef]

Quote: bmv04636

About their economy, whose army is dated by the SGA and you can’t tell tales, and in the tariffs for electricity in the euro collective farm for traditional producers sits green energy, and the collective farmers pay euros for it. So you did not explain where to get pollution from the production of solar cells, batteries

when there will be an economy in Russia, even remotely resembling ours, then we’ll talk, by the way, this also applies to your fairy tales about photogeneration.

[bmv04636]

God forbid that we would like you
Due to the conflict in Ukraine, Israel has already lost $ 1 billion in transactions with Russia, the amount of damage can increase significantly if the conflict between Moscow and Kiev, which entailed Western sanctions, does not stabilize in the near future, the Defense News website reports citing a source to the Israeli Ministry of Defense. Unlike deliveries of military products to China, Israeli defense transactions with Russia do not require separate coordination with the United States, but Tel Avi still has to take into account the interests of its closest ally. According to Defense News, the Israeli Ministry of Defense refused to force Israeli companies to break already concluded deals, but significantly limited the possibility of concluding new contracts. So, Israel intends to fully fulfill its obligations under the agreement on the joint production of Searcher UAVs in the Russian Federation, however, a new contract for the joint production of Heron-1 UAVs in Russia will not be signed. The contract value was estimated at one billion dollars.
As the overlord will tell his serf, the serf is glad.

[atalef]

Quote: bmv04636

God forbid that we would like you

Well well

Quote: bmv04636

because of the conflict in Ukraine, Israel has already lost $ 1 billion in transactions with Russia, the amount of damage can increase significantly if the conflict between Moscow and Kiev, which entailed Western sanctions,

Not a lot of money. especially on agricultural products we will help more - there is something you need. but not mine

Quote: bmv04636

As the overlord will tell his serf, the serf is glad.

And?

[bmv04636]

Everybody thinks to jump off the train of "light elves" at the last moment

[atalef]

Quote: bmv04636

Everybody thinks to jump off the train of "light elves" at the last moment

Do you still believe in the bright future of a single country?
Change your avatar to GAZ. and then for old with geyropi somehow it does not fit with patriotism.

[Professor]

Quote: atalef

Change your avatar to GAZ. and then for old with geyropi somehow it does not fit with patriotism.

Bravo.

[bmv04636]

And what do you dislike about the professor avatar is the six classics of the genre and our Russian spirit is enclosed in it.
The question is for you, and you are a professor of which you can link to your doctoral degree.

[Professor]

Quote: bmv04636

And what do you dislike about the professor avatar is the six classics of the genre and our Russian spirit is enclosed in it.

Russian spirit in a German car? Yeah.

Quote: bmv04636

The question is for you, and you are a professor of which you can link to your doctoral degree.

I am a professor of acidic cabbage soup and a link to my thesis is impossible because we are all incognito here.

[bmv04636]

Looks really bad your Zeiss AG can go to Schwab if you can’t tell the difference between a boomer and a boomer

[Lopatov]

Quote: atalef

You do not know what it is about, at the first stages it was sponsored by the state and the same in terms of the difference in tariff, now

Exactly, dear! In Europe, green electricity is now paid for by the end consumer and not by the state.

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

Quote: atalef

You do not know what it is about, at the first stages it was sponsored by the state and the same in terms of the difference in tariff, now

Exactly, dear! In Europe, green electricity is now paid for by the end consumer and not by the state.

I know . this was with us at the first stage. in general, the tariff difference reached 100% and, as a result, was paid by the end user. but ...
Now they have already reached almost the same tariff and most importantly. what you are missing is the efficiency of the new Sunflowers.

[Lopatov]

Quote: atalef

Efficiency of new Sunflowers.

When an increase in efficiency by tens of percent occurs due to the increase in costs at times, then why such high efficiency?

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

Quote: atalef

Efficiency of new Sunflowers.

When an increase in efficiency by tens of percent occurs due to the increase in costs at times, then why such high efficiency?

You forgot . that the energy source is free.

[Lopatov]

But the means of transforming wind and solar energy into electricity of the mega-road. And "free" sources, like everything free, have their big drawbacks. They are unreliable.

Really acceptable "green" sources are the energy of rivers and tides.

[Kadavercianin]

As far as I know, practically in all of Europe there are special state programs for building up with alternative energy sources, this is expressed in a variety of things, discounts, subsidies, credit interest, etc. The truth is mainly distributed on windmills and there are tidal ones, for solar panels I remember.

Solar batteries, it seems, only a year ago were aligned in the cost of production to the generated energy for the period of operation (I don’t remember only with or without utilization, nevertheless, clean energy).

The British somehow carried out experiments, tried to transfer wind energy from region to region, as a result (I’m sorry, I can say something incorrectly) with an increase in the transmitted energy by 3 times in the recipient region, the increase was only 20%, the reasons were even stated why it’s difficult to transfer energy from windmills from region to region, I read more than a year ago, I couldn’t find the link, I apologize.

And for very green people there is something about clean energy: the utilization of all this requires energy, the service life is also not always pleasing, well, there is such a topic that will happen if the sources of "clean energy" are used too massively, this of course does not threaten us yet but still.
Solar panels are expensive to recycle and require space for themselves when roofs or walls of houses are one thing, but arable land is another.
Windmills (those that are currently being used) will crush local birds in cabbage and will create some noise, but with mass use it is not known how they will affect the speed of the winds. The climate is a complex thing where what you change and then later comes around doesn't understand.

Using solar panels and wind generators is certainly possible and necessary for the needs of residential buildings, but for industry this is not too reliable.

[go]

Quote: Kadavercianin

Solar panels are expensive to recycle and require space for themselves when roofs or walls of houses are one thing, but arable land is another.
Windmills (those that are currently being used) will crush local birds in cabbage and will create some noise, but with mass use it is not known how they will affect the speed of the winds. The climate is a complex thing where what you change and then later comes around doesn't understand.

Using solar panels and wind generators is certainly possible and necessary for the needs of residential buildings, but for industry this is not too reliable.

Typical horror stories that frighten people in Russia, I think it's clear who and why scares? "National treasure ..." There is a problem of replacing arable land by growing crops for biofuel and photovoltaics in Europe, there is no such problem in Russia, since no one plows on arable land. Take a ride at least in the Voronezh region.

Regarding the birds chopped into dust .. VVP also once said that even the worms are dying :) Boos then prompted him to mine. In short, the problem was earlier, when the turbines were small and the blades rotated quickly, on a large turbine a bird can die only if it wants to commit suicide and fly to the end of the blade. Even in small turbines in America, they did research and proved that a hundred times more birds per year die from domestic cats, and from 1000 cars somewhere. There is a problem with migratory birds, as they do not turn away from wind farms, usually offshore, but ecologists do not allow them to build on these routes.

Regarding the change in winds and climate due to wind turbines ... as if softer ... nonsense in general. The wind flow is restored through the four diameters of the turbine rotor (this has already been studied for a long time). Part of the kin. wind energy that blows with a profile to an altitude of 10 thousand km., which the turbine converts into electric, is a drop in the ocean.

[Kadavercianin]

Quote: go

Quote: Kadavercianin

Solar panels are expensive to recycle and require space for themselves when roofs or walls of houses are one thing, but arable land is another.
Windmills (those that are currently being used) will crush local birds in cabbage and will create some noise, but with mass use it is not known how they will affect the speed of the winds. The climate is a complex thing where what you change and then later comes around doesn't understand.

Using solar panels and wind generators is certainly possible and necessary for the needs of residential buildings, but for industry this is not too reliable.


Typical horror stories that frighten people in Russia, I think it's clear who and why scares? "National treasure ..." There is a problem of replacing arable land by growing crops for biofuel and photovoltaics in Europe, there is no such problem in Russia, since no one plows on arable land. Take a ride at least in the Voronezh region.

Regarding the birds chopped into dust .. VVP also once said that even the worms are dying :) Boos then prompted him to mine. In short, the problem was earlier, when the turbines were small and the blades rotated quickly, on a large turbine a bird can die only if it wants to commit suicide and fly to the end of the blade. Even in small turbines in America, they did research and proved that a hundred times more birds per year die from domestic cats, and from 1000 cars somewhere. There is a problem with migratory birds, as they do not turn away from wind farms, usually offshore, but ecologists do not allow them to build on these routes.

Regarding the change in winds and climate due to wind turbines ... as if softer ... nonsense in general. The wind flow is restored through the four diameters of the turbine rotor (this has already been studied for a long time). Part of the kin. wind energy that blows with a profile to an altitude of 10 thousand km., which the turbine converts into electric, is a drop in the ocean.

The speed of rotation of the turbine blades at the end, which is small for large, is almost the same, and yes I agree that the problem is more with small turbines than with large ones. At the expense of the worms who died, I did not hear for it, but there is noise and vibration so that xs, as it is to the rest (a person can endure everything).

At the expense of the territory where to place all this, here, as they say, there are also problems, since wind turbines and solar panels can not be placed everywhere to increase efficiency. You yourself know that wind generators have limitations on the maximum and minimum speeds, and you need to light the solar panels with the sun, so the question is where and where to bridge them.

By the way, the use of biofuel crops is also a cannon, a feature of these crops is that they very strongly deplete the soil, so not all of them strive to grow. In this regard, work with algae, including in the ocean, rather than in basins, is much more interesting.

I apparently didn’t formulate successfully about the drop in wind energy, I said, but I wouldn’t like to use the possible effect if the use is widespread, such as with hydroelectric power plants, but they cannot block the entire river. The flow rate is of course restored, but it still gave energy, people create flying wind generators and block them, say everything at a height of 1 km in a volume of 1 km cubic (so conditionally do not complain about any height, like the volume of a cube) and what’s it no one will tell you, well, the wind speed may not drop much, but the flow energy will change, and what this will affect is not known.

I don’t mean that it’s so bad, but that these energy sources are positioned as purely ecological, but in fact it’s not, they also change the environment, just not like TPPs.

[atalef]

Quote: Spade

But the means of transforming wind and solar energy into electricity of the mega-road. And "free" sources, like everything free, have their big drawbacks. They are unreliable.

Really acceptable "green" sources are the energy of rivers and tides.

no, you're wrong.
Reliable. work, not expensive. pay off - go through the feasibility study.

[go]

[quote = Lopatov] But the means of transforming wind and solar energy into electricity of the mega-road. And "free" sources, like everything free, have their big drawbacks. They are unreliable.
[/ Quote]

I expected more from you - mega roads is how? What is mega cheap? Gas? It all depends on a particular place with a specific cost of electricity in the market and a specific financial plan for the project. There are places in Europe where wind projects pay off in 10 years, with a service life of at least 20. Draw conclusions.

And what is "they are unreliable"? Compared to what? With a potbelly stove or with a nuclear power plant?

Really acceptable "green" sources are the energy of rivers and tides. [/ Quote]

This is true, but the energy of rivers is not everywhere.

[go]

Quote: Spade

Quote: atalef

You do not know what it is about, at the first stages it was sponsored by the state and the same in terms of the difference in tariff, now

Exactly, dear! In Europe, green electricity is now paid for by the end consumer and not by the state.

And in Russia, who pays for energy? And what is a state? Is it probably the taxpayers in this state or who?

[go]

Quote: bmv04636

Yes, green energy, or as it is also called from renewable sources in Europe, is a big and big divorce paid by the consumer i.e. Euro collective farmers. If not for subsidies, it would have long been bent. And it is not green at all when creating dirt photocells no less than when burning traditional fuel. Windmills carry their share of sound and vibration pollution.

This is a difficult question, the truth is not even in Europe, because the truth depends on who sponsors the reports ... the coal-atom lobby is also strong.

It’s true that the development of alt. energy is paid by the consumer, it is not true that traditional generation pays for it, because for example, on windy days in northern Germany and Denmark, the cost of electricity on the exchange can generally tend to zero, because wind generation does not require fuel, but coal companies still make money, because consumers pay everyone a tariff.

It all depends on the specific placement of the alt. generation, where parity in value with traditional energy is already achieved.

And at the development stage, everything is subsidized, especially in Russia: at least one thermal power station without state subsidies has been built? Does Rosatom include the cost of nuclear waste disposal in the energy tariff or are taxpayers paying for it?

According to photovoltaics, production is dirty, but much more pollution is due to the burning of fuel, its extraction and transportation. In this particular installation, the PV module is not large, so not so bad.

In my opinion, you wrote above about some kind of noise pollution from wind turbines - do not write what you do not know. At the middle turbine of a megawatt class in the generator area is somewhere around 120db, for 200 meters you can only hear the wind. This may be a problem in Europe, where turbines are near houses - in the Russian Federation there will not be such a problem.

[bmv04636]

Well, let's wait for 2020, or something, when the last nuclear power plant in Germany closes. If with alternative generation everything is so rosy on the euro collective farm, what did the direct gas line bring to your darling.

[Kadavercianin]

Quote: go

According to photovoltaics, production is dirty, but much more pollution is due to the burning of fuel, its extraction and transportation. In this particular installation, the PV module is not large, so not so bad.

In my opinion, you wrote above about some kind of noise pollution from wind turbines - do not write what you do not know. At the middle turbine of a megawatt class in the generator area is somewhere around 120db, for 200 meters you can only hear the wind. This may be a problem in Europe, where turbines are near houses - in the Russian Federation there will not be such a problem.

I would not say that the extraction of materials and catalysts for the production of solar cells, as well as their processing and transportation, is much cleaner than the same production, transportation and processing of combustible fuel, and here and there, air, water, and the earth’s surface are simply polluted in different proportions, scales and places on the planet. Utilization of solar panels (they are also environmentally friendly) is also not a cheap process.

I already wrote for wind generators that it doesn’t make sense to place them everywhere, and they, like any equipment, also require disposal and maintenance, also wrote for the environmental frequency - this is also another question.

In general, the main topic of using the so-called alternative energy is not "environmental cleanliness", but independence from fossil energy sources such as coal, gas, oil, peat and, to some extent, uranium, in addition, this is not only independence from fuel resources, but also independence from the countries producing them, from the countries transporting them, etc. And while the main problem of alternative energy (for its complete dominance) is not its technological imperfection, but:
1: The complexity of using a nationwide set of these sources, they are too local
2: Due to 1 poor applicability for industrial enterprises, not stability (lighting and wind are not a very reliable factor), energy storage systems are either too expensive or still undergo experiments
3: In my opinion, the conceptual flaw, this article provides an example of an attempt to revise the concept of the approach to the work of solar cells. It is known that their efficiency decreases when heated, but here the heating energy is used for a practically ordinary generator. For wind farms, however, there is so far little limitation on the wind speed, both minimum and maximum, in the direction of solving this problem (mostly desert towers).

I am not opposed to alternative energy, I am just saying that it is not universal and it can be used at this stage only as an additional way to reduce the load from the main stations.

[saag]

not everywhere it can be applied, the more difficult it is to the north, that is, energy production will fall

[atalef]

Quote: saag

not everywhere it can be applied, the more difficult it is to the north, that is, energy production will fall

Of course, but the market is huge, just huge. and given the possibility of desalination and conditioning.

[abc_alex]

Devil, as usual in detail.

We read carefully:

In total, the panel is able to produce up to 12 kW of electricity. on a nice sunny day

And what do we do at night and in cloudy weather? Right, pray to god Ra.

A new development of scientists may be useful to residents of southern Europe, the Arabian Peninsula, Australia, southwest North America, South America.

It seems to me alone that it is difficult to call these regions leaders in electricity consumption? It seems to me that countries where it is cold consume much more. :)

At the same time, the device provides power generation costing less 10 cents for one kilowatt hour. ... At the same time, the cost of energy produced by a coal-fired power plant is approximately 5-10 cents for one kilowatt hour.

That is, it means that the transition from coal generation to this miracle of technology will be subsidized... If coal generation cost in the range of 5 to 9 cents, then 10 cents "sunflower" will require compensation. Who pays?

In this case, the system not suitable for installation on roofs of buildings. Affects a lot of weight - of the order 10 tons and dimensions are 40 square meters.

That is, this miracle still cannot be placed "next to the barn." It needs a special platform. Since in cities they have the audacity to grow houses that cast a shadow, and you can't put a sunflower on the roof, what remains?

It remains to plant IBM desert sunflowers.

That is, all those places that need cooling air and desalination ...

Here either I have a breakdown of the template, or a cant in the article. How, pray tell, a HEATING element can cool the air? In the same place, the refrigerant will circulate at a wild speed to take 2000 degrees from the head. And it will be not just hot, but most likely vaporous and under pressure. It would have to be cooled somehow quickly, for which an external cooler should be mounted.

Here it is:

... For example, water that absorbs heat from the operation of the Aquasar and SuperMUC supercomputer is subsequently used for space heating purposes.

I believe. Everything is logical. They took the heat, betrayed the heat, dissipated the heat.

But the idea of ​​cooling the air baffles me.

[atalef]

Quote: abc_alex

And what do we do at night and in cloudy weather? Right, pray to god Ra.

the same, WHICH NOW ON THE PHOTO VOLTAGE - ELECTRICITY EXCESSION. The energy goes to charge the batteries, and at night through inverters it is converted into alternating current and given out to the network. especially . that electricity consumption at night is minimal

Quote: abc_alex

It seems to me alone that it is difficult to call these regions leaders in electricity consumption? It seems to me that countries where it is cold consume much more. :)

You are deeply mistaken, my average consumption is 17000 kW per year. In the hot months (and there are 5), it reaches 1700-2000 kW per month. Air conditioners eat a lot

Quote: abc_alex

That is, it means that the transition from coal generation to this miracle of technology will be subsidized. If coal generation cost in the range of 5 to 9 cents, then 10 cents "sunflower" will require compensation. Who pays?

No, she will not replace a coal station a priori. but power generation is a complex process. there are peak hours of consumption, minimal. coal stations after the start of heating the boilers will give e-energy only after 17 hours of operation, etc.
Therefore, if we take the total volume of electricity production, then it is built like this. Basis (constant power consumption 0 is filled with coal power plants operating at 90-100% of the capacity. then gas combined with the boiler station, and above gas turbine stations to absorb peak loads (making it possible to get an almost instantaneous output with power and not requiring steam accumulation in boilers )
So photovoltaic fills a niche nicely between combined gas turbines and conventional gas turbines

Quote: abc_alex

That is, this miracle still cannot be placed "next to the barn." It needs a special platform. Since in cities they have the audacity to grow houses that cast a shadow, and you can't put a sunflower on the roof, what remains?

With cities. there are just no problems, they have a public network, as a rule substations and electric stations are in some proximity, therefore the losses in networks are minimal.
We are talking about 9, for example, 0 remote settlements where you need to draw lines (big money), transfer electricity 9 with all losses along the way) or put an industrial generator on a solarium and generate expensive electricity
Well, when these systems have reached industrial scales, then we can talk about inclusion in the state network

[atalef]

Quote: abc_alex

It remains to plant IBM desert sunflowers.

Have you been to Holland or Germany? Have you seen hundreds of windmills? What is the difference ?

Quote: abc_alex

. How, pray tell, a HEATING element can cool the air?

Read the thermodynamics in hermetic systems and then you will be surprised and probably understand how it is in the air conditioner, the inside is cooled. but the outside heats up

Quote: abc_alex

In the same place, the refrigerant will circulate at a wild speed to take 2000 degrees from the head. And it will be not just hot, but most likely vaporous and under pressure.

Do not get into such technical details. It is just solvable.

Quote: abc_alex

But the idea of ​​cooling the air baffles me.

the only question is the temperature difference. and energy transfer.

[Kadavercianin]

Quote: atalef

Quote: abc_alex
It remains to plant IBM desert sunflowers.

Have you been to Holland or Germany? Have you seen hundreds of windmills? What is the difference ?

Sorry, of course, but how many deserts are there in Europe?

Quote: atalef

Do not get into such technical details. It is just solvable.

The devil is in the details. And yes, in this situation, cooling the air will come out only when using a red-hot refrigerant as a working fluid for a standard electric generator, but then it is not clear from the emphasis on cooling the air, how and where should it be carried out in this system?

[zoknyay82]

Quote: parusnik

But our nanotechnology under the leadership of Chubais, please .. with the like can not ..

Nanorazhik asks the government one hundred billion, if they give it he will please us, there are no words!

[bmv04636]

as I understand it, solar panels work well in space, the task remains to throw the cable to the ground.

[zczczc]

The surface of the mirror is covered with a special layer of thin plastic, which performs the function of protecting the reflecting surface from atmospheric precipitation in the form of hail, rain, snow,

What kind of cunning plastic is it that is suitable for all climatic zones, and which lasts for a long time without noticeable destruction?

[atalef]

Quote: zczczc

The surface of the mirror is covered with a special layer of thin plastic, which performs the function of protecting the reflecting surface from atmospheric precipitation in the form of hail, rain, snow,

What kind of cunning plastic is it that is suitable for all climatic zones, and which lasts for a long time without noticeable destruction?

In the world there are enough plastics for any zones, especially since no one speaks of universality for all countries-- someone only needs electricity, someone needs the whole complex with desalination-- options are possible-- for some countries cars produce air conditioning, and who then without them import into the country is prohibited

[VVooVVaa]

Urgently these sunflowers in the Crimea.
They need electricity and fresh water!
good invention! the main thing Schaub was not left in the table!

[zczczc]

Quote: atalef

There are enough plastics in the world for any zones

There are no such transparent “plastics” that hold for a long time, I repeat for a long time.
If you know such - then please name, interesting. Maybe I missed something. I know the question from the inside, because For a long time he was engaged in the climate resistance of high molecular materials.
It seems to be a trifle, a coating, and replacing it is already “fineness".
I think so.

[atalef]

Quote: zczczc

There are no such transparent “plastics” that hold for a long time, I repeat for a long time.

There is

Quote: zczczc

If you know such - then please name, interesting. Maybe I missed something.

We have security screens on our cameras (as an example), no one changed about 15 years

Quote: zczczc

It seems to be a trifle, a coating, and replacing it is already “fineness".

I'm not special. in this case . but I know one thing, everything is solved, with sufficient funding.
And plastic (I'm sure) was not the biggest problem in this project.

[Kadavercianin]

Quote: atalef

We have security screens on our cameras (as an example), no one changed about 15 years

I'm just wondering if you have a temperature difference at night from +25 to -7 Celsius (the negative temperature is important here)?

And how tight are these screens to the camera lenses?

[Kadavercianin]

Quote: atalef

I'm not special. in this case . but I know one thing, everything is solved, with sufficient funding.
And plastic (I'm sure) was not the biggest problem in this project.

With sufficient funding, much can be solved, but will it be worth it?

[I think so]

The stupidity and lack of development of this idea lies right UP! Why make mirrors round? The round one has a smaller area and it is more difficult to manufacture, which means more expensive! Even in such OBVIOUS little things, the project is INCOMPLETE, and if you dig a little deeper ASAP, this is just another FAKE for knocking out a NEW FINANCE FINANCE and nothing more ...

[Vadim237]

This is all nonsense and the energy future is not for solar panels but for thermonuclear energy.

[go]

Quote: Vadim237

This is all nonsense and the energy future is not for solar panels but for thermonuclear energy.

Especially for its consequences.

[Kadavercianin]

And the superior claim that it is safe because of the specificity of the reaction.
Or are you one of those who believe that nuclear power is dangerous in itself and should be banned?

[bmv04636]

The material from which the plates are made affects the characteristics of solar panels
Pure silicon is practically not used in the production of solar wafers. Most often, boron is used as impurities for the manufacture of a plate producing a positive charge, and arsenic is used for negatively charged plates. In addition to them, in the production of solar cells, components such as arsenide, gallium, copper, cadmium, telluride, selenium and others are increasingly used. Thanks to them, solar panels become less sensitive to changes in ambient temperatures.
As I understand the efficiency of these sunflowers nevilik. And why the article does not say how much this sunflower costs. And in 250 greens all costs are included or not, there is a feeling that no

[zczczc]

Quote: atalef

We have security screens on our cameras (as an example), no one changed about 15 years

They’re going to stand that way, because camera optics is operated in conditions close to an open warehouse, a canopy. Another thing is “staring” in the sun and being exposed to powerful UV.
Do not think that I find fault with you, it just became interesting about the coating.
Adequate funding is not required. There is a ready-made solution, for example, a “sandwich” for the F16 fighter flashlight. Inside is polycarbonate, and outside is glass. For the exact composition and technology, “Alaverdi” to manufacturers, but will not say infection.

[atalef]

Quote: zczczc

Adequate funding is not required. There is a ready-made solution, for example, a “sandwich” for the F16 fighter flashlight. Inside is polycarbonate, and outside is glass. For the exact composition and technology, “Alaverdi” to manufacturers, but will not say infection.

Well, you see, there is a solution, in general, in my opinion, glass will do as well (though it is necessary with a special permeability of 0 this is clearly not hard.

[Denimax]

A large desert project died, now all hope for sunflowers remained, as everything was on time.)

[go]

Quote: Denimax

A large desert project died, now all hope for sunflowers remained, as everything was on time.)

He did not die, they interrupted him for a while while Gaddafi dealt with. Right now, they are discussing again.

[saag]

In the USA there was a project of a "sunflower" with a six-meter mirror, the focus was on the stirling, 24 kW. as far as I can remember could produce

[Lone gunman]

Nonsense, this device is being developed for the money of the Jewish fanatics of the Rhodschilds, an atmosphere heater after twenty years of use awaits us a "greenhouse" on earth, the fewer people, the faster their dream of a golden billion is realized, it would be better to use such sunflowers on Mars but no on a foreign land - reptilians ...

[Scales]

Do you want electricity prices to drop ?? Spread the dollar system and the problem will be solved)

[voyaka uh]

10 tons is a bit heavy ... With a large windage of the "sunflower"
put it on a solid foundation with shock absorbers - otherwise it will fall
in a strong wind. The design is heavy, you need something more openwork.

[SmileSimple]

... This panel consists of small cells measuring just 1x1 cm, each such cell is able to generate up to 57 watts of electricity ...

=> 100cm * 100cm * 57W = 570 W / m000 = 2 KW / m570 and multiply by 2m40 -> 2 MegW
the installation of such power weighing 10 tons is great, if it were true.

it looks like there is something "strange" in the article with numbers

[ma_shlomha]

Connected:
Multilayer solar modules. Photons will pass first through the first layer (transition), the remainders - into the second and so on, across all layers. Useless heat dissipation will be less than the efficiency of photoconversion modules - 10-25%. The constraint is Planck's constant.
Percentages 40-50 - from the heat removed (liquid-possibly multi-stage conversion, using microtubes).
Total may reach 60-70% of the efficiency.

[Prager]

why be surprised? in the states, climate and sunny day allow developing alternative energy sources almost throughout the country, which cannot be said about Russia.