Military Review

Ukrainian Defense Ministry to acquire Fort Fort assault rifles

93
By the end of this year, the Ukrainian military will receive 500 assault rifles "Fort-221" and "Fort-224", reports RIA News with reference to the head of the Armed Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Vitaly Otamanyuk.

Assault rifle "Fort-221".

«It weapon can be charged both from the right and from the left side - this is important for right-handers and left-handers. Cartridge emission is regulated on the right side, you can safely replace the barrel in the field, the caliber of the Fort-224 rifle - 5,45 on the 39 mm, this is the usual caliber that we got from the Soviet Union, but you can put the 9 caliber on or 7,62, this is the NATO caliber. If I left to perform functions somewhere outside Ukraine, for example, according to the NATO program, through the UN, then you should not carry echelons of ammunition with me, I can get them there, because I have a barrel of NATO caliber. This is our perspective. ”- said Otamanyuk.

According to him, this weapon is already being adopted. In a few days everything will be completed and the rifles will officially go to the troops. “Our first order before the end of the year is about 500 units. These weapons will be supplied primarily to the units of special operations forces, and in the future to highly mobile assault forces and reconnaissance subunits of mechanized units. ”He said.

It is also planned to adopt the pistols "Fort-17" and "Fort-14TPN".

In addition, the Ministry of Defense has begun re-equipment of AKC assault rifles. "There is an ergonomic handle, folding butt, a collimator is installed, - that is, we no longer use a mechanical sight, because of which we have to close one eye- he said. - The Ministry of Defense plans to re-equip about 2 thousands of machines for the ATO zone. The first 120 improved automats have already been sent to Donbass. ”

Help publication: "" Fort "- state scientific production association of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine. Located in Vinnitsa, headed by the company Major General of Police Viktor Pisarenko ".
93 comments
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  1. seregakursk
    seregakursk 7 October 2014 12: 32
    +16
    Replica TAR-21?
    1. MuadDib
      MuadDib 7 October 2014 12: 37
      +15
      Yes, very similar to an Israeli. Or maybe this is it. Collected under license, for example.
      1. Lefty
        Lefty 7 October 2014 13: 13
        +11
        Yes, they are licensed to produce them in Ukraine. And at the same time they are selling to Turkmenistan. Soon it seems they will appear in the militias.
    2. Rebus
      Rebus 7 October 2014 12: 38
      +8
      Quote: seregakursk
      Replica TAR-21?

      Yes, they are licensed.
      Comparing “TAR-21” and “Fort-221” does not make sense, since these are the same automatic weapons
      http://topwar.ru/13999-izrailskiy-tavor-plyus-licenziya-ravno-ukrainskiy-fort.ht
      ml
    3. RusDV
      RusDV 7 October 2014 12: 39
      +5
      Quote: seregakursk
      "Fort-221"

      Yes. This craft was widely discussed at VO two years ago:
      "It makes no sense to compare TAR-21 and Fort-221, since these are one and the same automatic weapon, no specific changes in the design and device of the machine are known. Despite many advantages and knowing the main drawback "TAR-21", the price of weapons in Israel is equal to one thousand dollars, the question arises about the feasibility of producing such an expensive weapon in Ukraine. Even made under license, it has almost the world price, although it is assembled in Ukraine. In addition to the automatic "Fort-221" of Israeli design, Fort-401 light machine guns, Fort-301 sniper rifles, and Fort-224 submachine guns have been adopted. by characteristics and much cheaper to manufacture. "

      Here is the link
      http://topwar.ru/13999-izrailskiy-tavor-plyus-licenziya-ravno-ukrainskiy-fort.ht
      ml
      1. sgazeev
        sgazeev 7 October 2014 13: 35
        +3
        Saw, Shura, saw: they are golden. laughing
      2. Papakiko
        Papakiko 7 October 2014 14: 42
        0
        Quote: RusDV
        It remains to be perplexed about the development of weapons under foreign licenses

        Cartridges for AK will soon end, however, the AK itself and they will need to be replaced with something.
        It was painfully smartly outskirts trading inheritance from the USSR.
        1. Retarg
          Retarg 7 October 2014 16: 30
          +1
          I agree, they are already waiting for "non-lethal" help from the United States
          1. Aljavad
            Aljavad 7 October 2014 21: 54
            0
            already waiting for "non-lethal" help from the United States

            They were waiting for a "lethal" one, but they flew like plywood over Paris, and over Wales, and over Warsaw. Now they are waiting for "non-lethal".
        2. svp67
          svp67 7 October 2014 18: 12
          +3
          Quote: Papakiko
          Cartridges for AK will soon end, however, the AK itself and they will need to be replaced with something.
          Both that and another for a long time and in large quantities are issued in the territory of Ukraine, here more likely another. The first, small step towards the unification of weapons with NATO ...
          1. Retarg
            Retarg 7 October 2014 18: 35
            +1
            They have been carrying out "unification with NATO" since 2004.
    4. iConst
      iConst 7 October 2014 12: 40
      +1
      Quote: seregakursk
      Fort 221

      Namely: Tavor Assault Rifle-21. Made half of Israeli components.
    5. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 7 October 2014 12: 48
      +12
      Well, now the militias will have to master a new machine ... they’re not used to BTR-4 yet ...
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. siberalt
      siberalt 7 October 2014 12: 50
      +1
      Suitable for stripping Kuev from the Nazis laughing
    8. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 7 October 2014 12: 53
      +2
      And there is. This is a licensed copy. Probably dear, like all small-series. In general, the cut of budget balances continues.
      1. sgazeev
        sgazeev 7 October 2014 13: 48
        0
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        And there is. This is a licensed copy. Probably dear, like all small-series. In general, the cut of budget balances continues.

        Again Benya put a hand. lol
      2. APASUS
        APASUS 7 October 2014 22: 25
        +2
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        And there is. This is a licensed copy. Probably dear, like all small-series. In general, the cut of budget balances continues.

        The history of this gizmo in Ukraine has been going on for 6 years, so this is not an indicator. And 500 pieces are not a lot, and for starters you need to at least shoot it, take it apart a dozen times, and learn how to serve.
        And it will be as always ...........
        Ukraine: Yu. V. Lutsenko, Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine, announced on October 1, 2008 that IMI and the Ukrainian company Fort will jointly manufacture TAR-21 assault rifles, which will go into operation in the Armed Forces and special units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs
    9. GRAMARI111
      GRAMARI111 7 October 2014 12: 54
      0
      By the way, what's up with Poroshenko’s gun factory? in the autumn of 2013, he was going to make mortars on it
    10. Giant thought
      Giant thought 7 October 2014 13: 38
      0
      Soon there will be such militias as trophies.
    11. The comment was deleted.
    12. Kaskadermike
      Kaskadermike 7 October 2014 22: 09
      +1
      A licensed copy of a very mediocre quality. As well as a copy of "Galil-Sniper", "Negev". About the freaks of the 500 series and the entire family of pistols "FORT" - a weapon that will betray at the most crucial moment. And about the alterations of the used army for hunting - the Chinese are just a standard of quality.
  2. 0255
    0255 7 October 2014 12: 34
    +4
    I hope the militias will also be supplied with small arms, anti-tank systems and MANPADS from Russia soldier
    1. ispaniard
      ispaniard 7 October 2014 12: 38
      +20
      I think the militia will have a "Fort" sooner ...
      1. silver_roman
        silver_roman 7 October 2014 12: 47
        +2
        after the appearance of the fort in New Russia, the land will be covered with these forts. Guys well beat this evil fascist !!!
      2. sgazeev
        sgazeev 7 October 2014 15: 33
        +3
        Quote: ispaniard
        I think the militia will have a "Fort" sooner ...

        Without intermediaries. laughing
    2. The comment was deleted.
  3. DRA-88
    DRA-88 7 October 2014 12: 34
    0
    It would be nice to have samples as trophies!
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 7 October 2014 12: 38
      +7
      Quote: DRA-88
      samples as trophies!

      Why are you planning to see such a revolutionary there?
    2. pensioner
      pensioner 7 October 2014 12: 40
      +2
      Quote: DRA-88
      It would be nice to have samples as trophies!

      Danunah ... I do not believe in the gloomy genius of modern Ukrainian developers and manufacturers of weapons. If the design itself is not bad, then they will do it clumsily. Well, or vice versa. There are already enough examples. A weapon must be reliable.
  4. cerbuk6155
    cerbuk6155 7 October 2014 12: 36
    +3
    The first rifles have already been sent to Donbas. We, too, must send the very best weapons to our militias. And in the open. For the USA, Ukraine is alien, but for us dear. soldier
    1. Basarev
      Basarev 7 October 2014 13: 28
      0
      But what if we take out and establish the production of TKB-022PM No. 2 from museums? Even in the original version, it is almost not inferior to the best modern models, but meanwhile 49 years have passed since then!
      1. PROXOR
        PROXOR 7 October 2014 13: 35
        +2
        Quote: Basarev
        But what if we take out and establish the production of TKB-022PM No. 2 from museums? Even in the original version, it is almost not inferior to the best modern models, but meanwhile 49 years have passed since then!

        For what? For the sake of the Bull Pop system? Let them continue to experiment. Kalash is still not surpassed in reliability and simplicity. Everything else is being brought to mind now. And not one concern Kalashnikov.
    2. Drmadfisher
      Drmadfisher 7 October 2014 19: 04
      0
      damn, so many stars - DONBASS
  5. Viktor Kudinov
    Viktor Kudinov 7 October 2014 12: 37
    +3
    It must be assumed that all this will go to the militia! Well done!
  6. Walk
    Walk 7 October 2014 12: 38
    +1
    This weapon is more for "police" actions and special operations. Sighting range is small and destructive power.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. atalef
      atalef 7 October 2014 12: 43
      +6
      Quote: Walk
      This weapon is more for "police" actions and special operations. Sighting range is small and destructive power.

      Yes ? This is probably why all the IDF combat units switched to Tahor.
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 7 October 2014 21: 01
        +5
        Quote: atalef

        Yes ? This is probably why all the IDF combat units switched to Tahor.

        Well, you ran away. Tsankhanim are supposed to be moving next year, and NAHAL and Handasa will only finish the transition until 2017. The budget is not rubber. Do not forget that some of the “Tavors” went to the teams of understudies of the regulars who had already switched to them.
    3. saag
      saag 7 October 2014 12: 44
      +2
      Quote: Walk
      Sighting range is small and lethal force.

      And why then not an ultrasound?
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. atalef
        atalef 7 October 2014 13: 08
        +2
        Quote: saag
        Quote: Walk
        Sighting range is small and lethal force.

        And why then not an ultrasound?

        Is there an Uzi in the IDF? But I mean as the main machine?
        1. Samurai3X
          Samurai3X 7 October 2014 13: 24
          +1
          More modern options are used in the rear services and, most likely, in parts of the police. This is a melee weapon. It is pointless to shoot from it more than 100 meters away. The cartridge is weak, even the old Soviet bronics at point-blank range may not penetrate (well, unless special bullets are used). But on the premises it’s good, but again the MP-5 and its descendants are better ...
          I think the IDF has been using something else for a long time, because UZI is outdated and does not meet the requirements of specialists.
          1. iConst
            iConst 7 October 2014 13: 39
            +2
            Quote: Samurai3X
            It is pointless to shoot from it more than 100 meters away. The cartridge is weak, even the old Soviet bronics at point-blank range may not penetrate (well, unless special bullets are used). But on the premises it’s good, but again the MP-5 and its descendants are better ...

            Hello, comrade ... smile
            1. Samurai3X
              Samurai3X 7 October 2014 22: 48
              0
              Well, tell me how to shoot from it at 150+ meters ...
              In front of my eyes they checked on the bronchik ...
          2. slavaslava556
            slavaslava556 7 October 2014 13: 57
            +7
            Directly in the army units UZI has long been withdrawn from service. In special forces, not often, but sometimes, micro-UZI videos are flashed in the photo. He is not for army operations. But in principle, the time for submachine guns has passed. Compact assault rifles with a powerful intermediate cartridge became a universal weapon. One type of ammunition, one system, no need to change skills. But TAVOR is really an excellent weapon tested by the army, and the CAAL is quickly re-arming itself with this weapon in one configuration or another.
    4. Dimka off
      Dimka off 7 October 2014 16: 00
      +1
      Quote: Walk
      Sighting range is small and lethal force.

      the aiming range is really small - 500-550 meters.
      1. iConst
        iConst 7 October 2014 16: 10
        +3
        Quote: Dimka off
        the aiming range is really small - 500-550 meters.

        Shaw? belay

        Have you ever shot at least 350 m? Especially for the hiding target? More than 200 m from ordinary small arms to fire is ineffective.
        1. Dimka off
          Dimka off 7 October 2014 18: 35
          +1
          Quote: iConst
          Have you ever shot at least 350 m?

          once on this site one person unsubscribed who personally hit targets from Kalash at a distance, if my memory serves me, of about 600 meters. It's all about the experience of the shooter. Well, if you give the machine to the conscript, it’s understandable that he won’t get to the first time and 100 meters. smile
  7. vdtomsk
    vdtomsk 7 October 2014 12: 39
    +2
    Quote: DRA-88
    It would be nice to have samples as trophies!
    They will, I don’t even doubt it!
  8. Denis
    Denis 7 October 2014 12: 40
    +9
    Our first order to the end of the year
    Preferably until the end of days!
    And rather
    And here's some more news
    1. beresa
      beresa 7 October 2014 12: 48
      +2
      Imagine a column of such tanks! wassat
      1. sgazeev
        sgazeev 7 October 2014 15: 38
        0
        Quote: beresa
        Imagine a column of such tanks! wassat

        Imagine farting steam on gas. wassat
        1. Denis
          Denis 7 October 2014 17: 32
          0
          Quote: sgazeev
          fart steam, on gas.

          It will be two in one!
          Attack and gas production, as well as problems with it
          Just what collection tank should I pick up
          like this, someone was honored!
      2. Aljavad
        Aljavad 7 October 2014 22: 20
        +2
        Imagine a column of such tanks!

        In the photo - Old Maxim himself, in person!
        Take off your hats, gentlemen! This is the beginning of the last century.
        Shl. By the way, on TV they showed the APU pulling a natural Maxim machine gun! Freshly dyed! So, the anti-tank guards of the militia are not "retro" yet.
  9. oreh72
    oreh72 7 October 2014 12: 42
    +2
    you can safely replace the barrel in the field, the caliber of the "Fort-224" rifle is 5,45 by 39 mm, this is the usual caliber that we got from the Soviet Union, but you can put the caliber 9 mm or 7,62 by 51, this is NATO caliber. If I went to perform functions somewhere outside Ukraine, for example, under the NATO program, through the UN, then I don’t need to carry echelons of ammunition with me, I can get them there, because my barrel is NATO caliber. This is our perspective ", - said Otamanyuk
    Some kind of babble. In the case of a change of caliber and cartridge replacement of one barrel can not do.
    1. 33 Watcher
      33 Watcher 7 October 2014 13: 38
      +1
      Shutter, shop, and something else, the sleeve is also different. In general, this is done in the factory once with one batch, at the request of the customer. Well, who cares about it in ruin, they’ll be the heroes who will tear the whole world up with five hundred machine guns :-)
  10. MIV999
    MIV999 7 October 2014 12: 44
    0
    Special equipment may and may be useful - for example, to storm buildings, operate indoors ... But this is an absolutely useless shnyaga for the armed forces themselves ... A rather short barrel is a correspondingly miserable range of an aimed shot with all the consequences negative... Well, well, that’s so - maybe it will be easier for us to mow dill soldier
    1. iConst
      iConst 7 October 2014 12: 54
      +4
      Quote: MIV999
      A fairly short barrel - accordingly the poor range of the aimed shot with all the consequences

      You are confusing the length of the aiming line and the length of the barrel - in a bullpup, the barrel is not shorter than the "classic", but often longer. Here is the sighting line, on which the aiming accuracy depends for an ordinary sighting system of the rear-sight type, yes - worse.
      But this is already losing relevance with the almost universal introduction of holographic, collimator and optical (low magnification) sights.
    2. Mountain shooter
      Mountain shooter 7 October 2014 12: 57
      +5
      This is a "bullpup", and its barrel is of normal length, and everything is fine with slaughter. The Israeli army crossed over to them. And these guys in arms understand.
      1. iConst
        iConst 7 October 2014 13: 05
        +2
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        The Israeli army switched to them. And these guys in arms understand.

        Yes, the Israelis ate the dog in arms.
        However, the question is which is better - bullpup or classic remains open. Both systems have their pros and cons.
        In particular, the flip side of the bullpup's compactness is significantly increased sound pressure and an increase in air pollution by the shooter, less convenient control of ammunition consumption in the store (they are made transparent for good reason) and reloading.
    3. Bayonet
      Bayonet 7 October 2014 13: 04
      +2
      Quote: MIV999
      absolutely useless shnyaga for the armed forces proper ... A rather short barrel - accordingly a miserable range of an aimed shot with all the consequences

      Countries Using TAR-21
      1. IAlex
        IAlex 7 October 2014 15: 56
        0
        Why did you push such a powerful picture? Or do you think that in the countries mentioned there is no other automatic machine like M16 and AK?

        then I have to upset you, M16 and AK are used around the world and in the troops cover almost the whole world.
        1. Bayonet
          Bayonet 8 October 2014 05: 49
          +1
          Quote: IAlex
          Or do you think that in the countries mentioned there is no other automatic machine like M16 and AK?

          No, I don't. Only a narrow-minded person can think so. But to consider a weapon bad, just because "I think so" is stupid.
      2. IAlex
        IAlex 7 October 2014 15: 56
        -2
        Why did you push such a powerful picture? Or do you think that in the countries mentioned there is no other automatic machine like M16 and AK?

        then I have to upset you, M16 and AK are used around the world and in the troops cover almost the whole world.
    4. Aljavad
      Aljavad 7 October 2014 22: 24
      0
      Spetsure may come in handy -

      APU actively earns money in the UN peacekeeping force. It will fit perfectly. And 500 pcs. quite enough.
  11. NVVPOU
    NVVPOU 7 October 2014 12: 44
    +2
    I can imagine how the fighters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with the Forts are running on the battlefield, and behind their back there is a bag with interchangeable barrels and magazines under the required cartridge. To the commander’s question: why don’t you shoot, lad? Pan commander, I lost the trunk! Then take the barrel with a 180 turn. I can’t rzhu.
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. Khalmamed
    Khalmamed 7 October 2014 12: 46
    +1
    rogues they are FRONTIER NUCLEAR Kernel ALREADY DYING!
    - in TIME full "F", to buy licenses ..? - fraud.
    - to buy in such quantity and at such a price ..?
    - sent to Donbas - just wondering the evil spirits of all Ukraine will write in Donbas ..?
  14. inkass_98
    inkass_98 7 October 2014 12: 50
    +3
    but you can put the caliber 9-millimeter or 7,62 on 51, this is the NATO caliber.

    Otamanyuk, head of the missile and artillery department of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, has an idea of ​​small arms or is he just an artilleryman? In the transition from 5,45x39 to 7,62x51, only replacing the barrel will not do, even if you are a general like Geleta even three times. And which 9mm cartridge is meant? If "Couple", then even more so.
    They carry crap without knowing anything about it.
    1. Gato
      Gato 7 October 2014 13: 04
      +2
      Quote: inkass_98
      just replacing the trunk is not enough

      Naturally:
      ... can be converted into a 9 mm or .40 S&W submachine gun by replacing the barrel, bolt group and installing a special adapter in the store receiver

      Is it in the field?
  15. Free Island
    Free Island 7 October 2014 12: 50
    +1
    I don’t understand again the logic of ukrov .. or orcs, how are they there, I always confuse :))) why buy something for my "army" if the militia will take it away in battle anyway? :)))
    1. Gato
      Gato 7 October 2014 13: 15
      +1
      Quote: Free Island
      I don’t understand again, logic

      Well then - kickbacks. The unit cost is about $ 1000 in Israel, Ukrainian production should be understood even more expensive (license, purchased components). This is despite the fact that the stocks of small arms (type AK-74) in Ukraine are about 3,5 million units with the corresponding number of b / p.
    2. Leprechaun
      Leprechaun 7 October 2014 14: 31
      0
      This is an insidious plan to arm the militiamen, which they follow throughout the conflict, and all in order to then knock on Obamkkin's door with the words "Help!
  16. Bronik
    Bronik 7 October 2014 12: 51
    0
    U_kry went the Chinese way, rivet other people's development.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 7 October 2014 13: 02
      0
      Purchasing a license "for sale only on the territory of Ukraine" is not at all the Chinese way. In the Celestial Empire they know how to count money.
  17. cat hippopotamus
    cat hippopotamus 7 October 2014 12: 53
    -1
    Soon we will again hear about another Kaloomi scam and how he put a weapon on three roads.
  18. surovts.valery
    surovts.valery 7 October 2014 12: 53
    0
    By the way, pay attention to the fact that the name of the head of the RAU APU - V. Otamanyuk was highlighted (maybe only for me). The direct culprit of the deaths of civilians from shelling of troops of the Armed Forces. Of course, he gave specific orders, but for the acquisition, supply of equipment and ammunition, combat training, the analysis of the combat use of artillery and missile forces bears the most direct responsibility. So please take note of this, it should come in handy in the future for the tribunal.
  19. novel68rus
    novel68rus 7 October 2014 12: 53
    0
    it looks cool ... whether this is reliable is the question .. and how it will shoot in the cold .. they haven’t come up with anything more reliable than a Kalashnikov assault rifle ...
  20. DPZ
    DPZ 7 October 2014 12: 55
    0
    in general, the trend is to cover the retreat to the mountains with parabellums
  21. BOB044
    BOB044 7 October 2014 12: 57
    +1
    Similarly, the Israeli Tavor TAR-21 is not what they did not come up with. They just came up with a reed in Kiev in the apartments in the winter to heat the stove so as not to freeze.
  22. Alexander
    Alexander 7 October 2014 12: 58
    +1
    This Israeli rifle in dill reincarnation like already since 2008 should be produced. Just something during the ATO, she did not flash anywhere.
  23. PiP
    PiP 7 October 2014 12: 59
    0
    I have never held a bullpup weapon in my life. Therefore, I ask knowledgeable people to tell about the possibility of using this system in hand-to-hand combat. In my opinion, you don't wave very much with this weapon like a club and you don't poke a little leg ... It seems that it's not a very good thing for hand-to-hand ...
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 7 October 2014 13: 09
      +2
      In melee? The idea is convenient: tore the distance, slammed a bullet in the forehead. So the weapon of this scheme in hand-to-hand combat has an advantage.
      1. PiP
        PiP 7 October 2014 13: 14
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        It’s convenient, in theory: tore the distance, slammed a bullet in the forehead

        This is not a melee, but the continuation of fire contact only at short distances. Here and PM are in use. I mean a fight (bayonet) in rooms, trenches ...
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 7 October 2014 13: 28
          +5
          No, dear, this is a modern hand-to-hand fight. The main task of which is to break the distance with one method or another, and then shoot. Because since the time of the classic bayonet battle, personal protective equipment has changed somewhat.

          In front of you is an uncle in PPE of the 5th class of protection, a helmet in the worst case with a visor and a splinterproof suit of the "Permyachki" type. Armed with automatic weapons. To go for this with an assault rifle with a bayonet-knife attached, a sapper shovel or a knife, you have to be a super professional
          1. MAXUZZZ
            MAXUZZZ 7 October 2014 16: 56
            0
            I heard a story that in Chechnya bandits in hand-to-hand ambush beat with a knife from bottom to top in a beard-throat, and it seems like enough, no bronik nickname helmet
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 7 October 2014 20: 00
              +1
              The bike. There, anyway, bulletproof vests were filthy, and besides, few wore them. Occasionally.
            2. Aljavad
              Aljavad 7 October 2014 22: 31
              0
              from the bottom to the throat of a beard,

              It - least - the first adult in fencing. As Lopatov said "you have to be a super professional"
    2. iConst
      iConst 7 October 2014 13: 12
      +2
      Quote: PiP
      Therefore, I ask knowledgeable people to talk about the possibility of using this system in melee

      But how will it turn out - to reach hand-to-hand combat now - one in 10 thousand. The tactics are different. Shunting battle - as soon as one of the sides runs out of ammunition, it withdraws. And if you "squeezed" - then the chance to get to the enemy hand-to-hand is insignificant - the enemy, the campaign, still has bullets ... No.
    3. aleks 62
      aleks 62 7 October 2014 14: 03
      0
      .... In the charter of the Israeli army there is no concept of hand-to-hand combat ..... There, in fact, it does not exist ..... An alternative is to work as a couple ..... hi
      1. Neksel
        Neksel 7 October 2014 18: 48
        +1
        Quote: aleks 62
        .... In the charter of the Israeli army there is no concept of hand-to-hand combat ..... There, in fact, it does not exist ..... An alternative is to work as a couple ..... hi


        There is no actual charter in the Israeli army.
    4. PiP
      PiP 7 October 2014 16: 24
      0
      As if the TOTAL ... Rukapashka is not considered in the light of "new trends in tactics." And no one tried to use the "bullpup" (FAMAS, L85A1, AUG, etc.) as "cudgels" (faith does not allow). At the same time it is strange to observe bayonet-knives on the majority of "bullpups", what is this a tribute to the past? By the way, in my opinion, a bayonet is not provided for TAVOR (I could be wrong, correct). I remember only missiles were planned on jet planes, and then they began to install guns anyway. It's a pity there is no real data, only assumptions about the future tactics of warfare. Why then RB-N / 1/2/3 techniques with weapons? If the tactic does not provide for direct contact?
      1. Neksel
        Neksel 7 October 2014 19: 00
        +1
        Quote: PiP
        By the way, in my opinion, the TAVOR bayonet is not provided (I can be wrong, correct it).

        There are no bayonets in the Israeli army.
        Here is an example thread to discuss this topic here:
        http://guns.allzip.org/topic/79/328858.html
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 7 October 2014 20: 16
        +1
        Quote: PiP
        Why then RB-N / 1/2/3 tricks with weapons? If tactics do not involve direct contact?

        And how are you going to break the distance without "direct contact"? For example, when you were grabbed with two hands behind your back, pressing your arms to your body?

        In addition, hand-to-hand combat is a great thing for building self-confidence, healthy aggressiveness.
        1. PiP
          PiP 7 October 2014 21: 23
          0
          Quote: Spade
          to tear the distance? For example, when you were captured with both hands behind your back, pressing your arms with your arms to your body?
          In theory, going down and taking counter-measures (stab, butt). But this is a capture technique (with two hands behind), in a real fight, they would just poke me with a knife and run on ...
          Nobody argues that RB
          Quote: Spade
          A great thing for building self-confidence, healthy aggressiveness.
          hi
          Nevertheless, the question of the "bullpup" throttle response in hand-to-hand combat remains open ...
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 8 October 2014 05: 59
            0
            Quote: PiP
            in a real fight, they would just poke me with a knife

            You would have turned around after that and stabbed the knife lover with a bullet in the forehead. Anyone who is able to poke you with a knife into the armpits or in the neck between the BZ collar and a helmet in the heat of battle will never pick up a knife, but will use small arms.

            Quote: PiP
            Nevertheless, the question of the "bullpup" throttle response in hand-to-hand combat remains open ...

            Here, as well as with actions in the premises, the bulpap is convenient because it is short.
  24. s30461
    s30461 7 October 2014 13: 00
    -1
    Particularly touching is the open aggression with which the ukrofascists report plans for the supply of weapons for a punitive operation, but at the same time Pidroshenko shouts from all the stands about peace for which he is allegedly ready to lay down his life. As is typical for all "liberal-crap" Europeans: to choke the victim and shout at the same time "rape" !!!
  25. Lopatov
    Lopatov 7 October 2014 13: 01
    0
    Heh ... Are they all Soviet ammunition for the rifleman managed to sell / shoot / lose?

    A rather stupid decision in the context of the ongoing civil war in Ukraine. From which per kilometer stinks stupid PR.
  26. navara399
    navara399 7 October 2014 13: 01
    0
    they found money for it ... when will you guys pay for gas?
  27. dmitrich
    dmitrich 7 October 2014 13: 02
    +1
    that is, we no longer use a mechanical sight, because of which it is necessary to close one eye,
    now both eyes will close!
  28. press officer
    press officer 7 October 2014 13: 10
    0
    good news! Soon on all dill sites - "Fort-221" assault rifle is on sale. yes The dill army is unlikely to reach .. laughing
  29. Bassoon
    Bassoon 7 October 2014 13: 18
    0
    VSN can be congratulated on the purchase of new assault rifles?)
    1. iConst
      iConst 7 October 2014 14: 01
      0
      Quote: Fagot
      VSN can be congratulated on the purchase of new assault rifles?)

      Bullpup is not very suitable for intense combat: since almost the entire barrel is in the body, heating is significant. Plus, I already wrote - the noise from the shot and gas pollution do not affect the shooter in the best way.
  30. el.krokodil
    el.krokodil 7 October 2014 13: 21
    0
    ukrvoententorg updates the range laughing militia come in handy .. laughing
  31. Wolka
    Wolka 7 October 2014 13: 23
    +1
    Before judging about this device, it is useful to know its performance characteristics ...
  32. Shornikov
    Shornikov 7 October 2014 13: 28
    0
    I’m wondering, their whole army now consists practically of the newly mobilized, with the exception of mercenaries.
    This new stream in AK is difficult to understand, unlike the Somalis. They will not get confused in all the switches of this atomizer? After all, they will shoot themselves.
    However, there they care.
  33. raven75
    raven75 7 October 2014 13: 28
    +1
    The militias will soon have these "Forts". All 500 pieces. Having otmudokhav the punishers, they will take it away, look it up, test it ... Yes, and put it in a distant box, I suppose. The machine is lethal, accurate, beautiful, but almost useless in war, it requires too much care and gentle treatment of itself. And His Majesty "Kalash" will again appear on the stage. A huge pile of various weapons in the world is more beautiful (this is for an amateur), and hits more accurately, and the accuracy is higher, and many more and. But ... Phenomenal reliability of the AK in any conditions - while maintaining a fairly accurate battle and overall lethality - advertising, you can't imagine better.
    1. iConst
      iConst 7 October 2014 13: 49
      +1
      Quote: raven75
      The militias will soon have these "Forts". All 500 pieces. Having otmudokhav the punishers, they will take away, look, try ...

      Reminded: "... you stop all tests here. Your pig turned out to be a mutant, my eye was knocked out and the dagger was taken away ..." laughing
    2. slavaslava556
      slavaslava556 7 October 2014 14: 10
      +3
      Dear, before you say something, we first think, then we cheat, think, and only then we say. Who told you that TAVOR requires a gentle relationship? And what is it a gentle attitude to weapons? Would you start throwing your Kalash not kicking knowing that your life depends on him? No answer needed. Over the 5 years of the military school, I've cleaned my AKM so many times that the conclusion suggests itself as if it were not an AKM but a Swiss watch. Leave legends about jammed weapons. All modern rifle systems make it easy to conduct combined arms combat for several days without cleaning weapons.
      TAVOR has been tested for 10 years wherever possible. And the TsAAL cannot be denied combat experience. Who else but we are the best testing ground. Conclusions - an excellent reliable, accurate and convenient weapon. Very easy to disassemble, lighter than AK. Easier to clean. Very applied when shooting. The location of the store allows a shift without taking off from the shoulder. Maybe even by virtue of all taken together - the best weapon for a soldier today.
  34. 33 Watcher
    33 Watcher 7 October 2014 13: 51
    0
    I was not interested in the performance characteristics of this sample, but, the license-license, you still need to collect it as it should. If the production is the same "order" as elsewhere in Ukraine, then for me the AK of the Soviet assembly is better.
  35. ISKANDER25
    ISKANDER25 7 October 2014 14: 20
    0
    Hello! By and large, no matter how many HOPPY ARMED armies are, arm everything to no avail !!! Soon kirdyk!
  36. IAlex
    IAlex 7 October 2014 14: 21
    -1
    I saw such crap a few years ago at the exhibition, only she was from Asia. Moreover, it is not clear to me how ergonomically modernized automata can help in scanty amounts, if not ergonomically modernized automata make up almost 100%, the more they shoot no worse than new ones, but cost less ...
  37. lis-ik
    lis-ik 7 October 2014 14: 28
    +2
    If I went to perform functions somewhere outside of Ukraine .....
    This is the main message, realizing that in fact they are "cannon fodder", they are still ready for NATO anywhere, just not in the Russian world. Kh.okhly where is your pride and national identity !?
  38. Evgen2x
    Evgen2x 7 October 2014 15: 06
    +2
    “This weapon can be loaded from either the right or left side - this is important for right-handed and left-handed people. Ejection of cartridges to the correct side is regulated "
    Gee gee)) can be sleeves?)! and then ammo if you throw it away you don’t have enough) Khan ukrobudzhetu with these things will be)))
    1. iConst
      iConst 7 October 2014 15: 14
      +1
      Quote: Evgen2x
      Gee gee)) can be sleeves?)! and then the cartridges if thrown away do not save at all)

      Well, sleeves, sleeves, you are our picky. However, in the event of a misfire or discharge, the entire cartridge will be thrown.
  39. IAlex
    IAlex 7 October 2014 15: 57
    -1
    And what is its advantage compared to the AK or M16? As I understand it, this is a continuation of the cunning plan to rid the ukrovermaht of the national guards, to give them all crap under the brand name of super modern junk of foreign technology, and to fill them up quickly with these gizmos ...
  40. raid14
    raid14 7 October 2014 16: 23
    0
    And this product will save the fathers of Ukrainian democracy? Kaklam rukozh .. even though the Death Star, let it be stolen, surrendered without a fight, or themselves (in spite of the pits) destroyed.
  41. MAXUZZZ
    MAXUZZZ 7 October 2014 16: 50
    0
    The Ministry of Defense plans to re-equip about 2 thousand automatic machines for the ATO zone. The first 120 improved machines have already been sent to the Donbass "
    We look forward to the generous gifts of the army of New Russia from the mountain-warrior!
  42. Maki Avellevich
    Maki Avellevich 7 October 2014 17: 00
    +1
    "in the field, replace the barrel, the caliber of the" Fort-224 "rifle - 5,45 by 39 mm,"

    39 mm, yes a rifle is good!
  43. nicolay338
    nicolay338 7 October 2014 17: 06
    0
    "that is, we no longer use a mechanical sight, because of which we have to close one eye,"
    This was said by the Minister of Defense)))
    Clowns, dance!)))
    You can shoot from the bar with both open!)))
    1. Aljavad
      Aljavad 7 October 2014 23: 23
      0
      This was said by the Minister of Defense)))
      Clowns, dance!)))


      He wanted to say: it is necessary to cover one eye with a palm!
  44. Ze Kot
    Ze Kot 7 October 2014 17: 27
    +1
    "you can safely replace the barrel, caliber of the" Fort-224 "rifle in the field"

    Yes, the barrel here, it seems to me you can’t do it ... It's not only the caliber, but also the dimensions of the cartridges are different: 5,45x39, 9x19, 7,62x51 ...
  45. Svetovod
    Svetovod 7 October 2014 19: 24
    0
    It will be possible to get ukrov for food / socks / gasoline.

    I did not know that to work with an open sight you need to "close one eye". It's like to open a door you need to "put your other hand in your pocket".

    The sight is of course more practical than mechanical, but in desert / arctic / swamps / mud / dust conditions, the most practical is a ring sight with a front sight.
    1. slavaslava556
      slavaslava556 7 October 2014 22: 05
      -1
      Just ask. We will explain everything to you. TAVOR always has a folding front sight and mechanical goals. In the standard and are not removed. So if you don’t stay without a sight.
  46. Evilcat
    Evilcat 7 October 2014 20: 36
    0
    “This weapon can be loaded from either the right or left side - this is important for right-handed and left-handed people. The release of cartridges to the right side is regulated, you can safely replace the barrel in the field, the caliber of the "Fort-224" rifle is 5,45 by 39 mm, this is the usual caliber that we got from the Soviet Union, but you can put a 9-mm caliber or 7,62 by 51, this is a NATO caliber. If I left to perform functions somewhere outside Ukraine, for example, under the NATO program, through the UN, then I don’t need to carry echelons of ammunition with me, I can get them there, because my barrel is of NATO caliber. This is our perspective ", - said Otamanyuk

    TAR-21 was already mentioned here, and so, there is no information about interchangeable trunks on the 221st. And her NATO caliber is 5,56. Breshet Otamanyuk. NOT, believing in good is not shameful, but not so.
    Why only 500? Arm the generals?