Primakov: United States spawned Frankenstein
Yevgeny Primakov is the former head of the Russian foreign intelligence service, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the government, a man who once represented a "big treaty" between Russia and Ukraine in the Duma and gave political journalism more than one year. According to him, restraint in the external situation in Ukraine should be shown by everyone: the “sofa generals” who called for the introduction of the Russian army into Ukraine, and even front-line correspondents who cannot help but empathize with the sufferings of people. Evgeny Maksimovich told about this in an interview with Vesti on Saturday.
“A dual complex situation has arisen. I understand that many of the events that took place forced us to talk about them loudly,” Yevgeny Primakov notes.
- This is understandable, because correspondents see the suffering of people with their own eyes.
- It is absolutely clear, but at the same time it is necessary to make it thinner, to think about how it affects, including our country.
- You once stressed that the main danger was the military involvement of Russia in the events in the south-east of Ukraine, which would have caused the Americans to develop world politics in a completely different way.
“That's right, because after the collapse of the Soviet Union, centrifugal processes began in the North Atlantic Union.
- America - by itself, Europe - too?
- The position of Europe was very different, to the extent that not all European countries supported the invasion of the United States into Iraq. And it is very worried about the United States. Bush Junior, for example, was reproached for losing his European allies. It seems to me that the policy of the United States in Ukraine was largely based on the desire to again subjugate Europe. To some extent, it was possible. It can not be denied. If we introduced regular units to Ukraine, Europe would be under the United States for the whole next century.
- That is, having carried out a military operation, we would have played a giveaway with the Americans?
- Of course. They wanted it, they wanted this turn of events.
- What kind of extremist groups have we not watched over the past 30-40 years. Why, nevertheless, the emergence of a new "project" - the "Islamic state" - makes you ring the bells?
- Al-Qaida, for example, is a very dangerous structure. I will not delve into the role of the United States, which ...
- spawned frankenstein?
- Yes.
- Fought with the Soviet forces in Afghanistan, and this group has healed its life.
- The structure was very dangerous, but it did not pretend to seize a significant part of some states and establish a caliphate there. And now we are witnessing a victorious procession of the "Islamic State". And the winners are loved, they are drawn to them. No wonder the Europeans, the United States, and Australia sounded the alarm. Because a lot of people are leaving from different countries who are starting to join this movement.
- They are coming from Russia too.
- Yes. This is very dangerous, because the number of this organization is growing rapidly. Even the CIA recognized that in the first three months its number had tripled. Now has up to 50 thousands, and this is not the limit.
- They are very efficient. Northern Iraq is already under their control, Syria.
- The group is efficient not only against the background of the Iraqi army - it is generally efficient. She captured a lot weapons: armored personnel carriers, Tanksartillery.
- The most dangerous, - oil fields are captured, and now they have their own source of income.
- Oil fields, including in Syria. They are financially self-sufficient. In addition, they sell oil to shadow traders. They also captured part of the Central Bank.
- And about this in the news less was said.
- When they took Mosul.
- Is there part of the gold currency reserves?
- Yes, they captured very significant amounts. And now they are self-sufficient. This has never happened before. Terrorist organizations have always depended on someone. And they at this stage do not depend on anyone.
- Against this background, God himself orders to proceed from the understanding of common threats, from what is commonly called the civilized world, to unite and create a united front against this at the UN site. But instead, there are proposals, in particular, of Polish President Komarovsky, to exclude Russia from the UN Security Council. How does one connect to the other?
- Does not connect. You never know what they say! What could be without Russia? If Russia began to put sticks in the wheels of the antiterrorist struggle in the Middle East - is this a purely hypothetical situation - would anything have happened? Of course not! Russia can not do without. But what really bothers us? It is disturbing that they will extend the concept of "international terrorism" to groups that they call "terrorist" and which are called terrorist in their interests, but in fact, they do not possess such qualities. We are also concerned when the United States assumes responsibility - without the decision of the Security Council - to bomb Syrian territory.
- The Americans say in the military doctrine that they reserve the right to unilateral actions.
- They appropriated this right. This is not international law. After they were convinced that their resolutions could not pass through the Security Council, especially after we felt that we were deceived in Libya, they began to bypass the Security Council.
- There is one very subtle point. From the lips of the Russian representatives, it was thought that the United States and France would unilaterally strike the positions of Islamists, even if they understood the threat from the Islamic State, would be a violation of international law. The blows began, the Americans refer to the request of the Iraqi government. But there was no resolution of the Security Council as it was. She appeared, but she is a little about something else. And here comes the topic of Syria, because it turns out that the Americans informed the Syrians that they would strike, and the Syrians, contrary to expectations, did not protest, although this is, of course, a violation of their sovereignty. You know the Syrians well.
- They protested, but weakly. This is another indicator of the nearness of American politics and position. Now, true allies in the fight against the “Islamic State” could be Iran and Syria, which, of course, adhere to their own interests. And they do not go for it, they push them aside, they strive again to preserve some kind of opposition.
- Position against Bashar Assad?
- If Assad would not exist, the Islamic State would come to power instead.
“Maybe it is beneficial for the Americans to maintain such unruly chaos.” Is there such a theory?
“Out of the chaos, organizations such as the Islamic State can arise.”
- In one of your articles we are talking about Ukraine. You clearly speak with conviction of Yanukovych, saying that he is a man who tried to milk two queens - the European Union and Russia. On the other hand, the geographical position of Ukraine, perhaps, obliges it to do. In the most peaceful period of the Ukrainian storiesas it now turns out, it was the Kuchma presidency, who very successfully milked two queens, the Ukrainian authorities, unfortunately, got themselves involved in a situation when they had to make a choice, either with those or with these. Has this become a tragic mistake of the Ukrainian authorities?
- I disagree with you in the sense that Ukraine had a choice, either with those or with these. We have never been against Ukraine deciding issues related to its geographic location. We talked only about that, joining the Association with the European Union, an unfavorable situation will be created for us, which hurts our interests, and we will take countermeasures. It was about this that was talked about, and not about making choices about who they want to be with.
“But now they are pushing themselves into this business.” The last "task" of Petro Poroshenko - to work out the question of the rejection of non-aligned status. This is just a turn in one direction, instead of being the neutral side in the middle.
- From the application to the decision a lot of time will pass.
- And Obama did not give them the status of a privileged partner.
- Why did I also speak about Yanukovych? Because when Kuchma was not like this. Yanukovych kept hanging noodles on our ears all the time. It is not befitting a politician.
- They say that at the sunset of his power, he told his entourage: "Let's go to the one who will give more money."
- Well, here you are. I believe that our small blunder was that we did not feel that at the beginning on the Maidan there were sentiments against the corruption regime, and then, like a phoenix, some organizations were revived, which began to shout, took arms in their hands. By chance, they could not appear, they were prepared somewhere. But I would divide those who participated in the Maidan and opposed the corrupt nature of the regime, and those who were already romping for demanding changes to everyone and everything.
- Yevgeny Maksimovich, you are an extremely cautious and prudent person, and you end up with your article in Rossiyskaya Gazeta in Ukraine with the words “time will tell”. It is clear that now it is very difficult to predict anything, however, do you think the settlement of the current situation is the subject of the Russian-Ukrainian-European agreements or the Russian-American dialogue over Ukraine? What could be the formula?
- The main thing here is Russian-American relations. Until. In the future, perhaps, Ukraine, when there will be a steady state leadership, truly covering the whole country or a significant part of it. Then we can talk about the fact that Ukraine can show some kind of independence. And now the United States is in command of both Ukraine and Europe.
- You mentioned the concept of "the power of all Ukraine." Recently, Petro Poroshenko gave a big press conference in Kiev and unexpectedly for many said: "What is the law on the special status of the southeast? No, no! This is also a special status for self-government." Many thought that thus Poroshenko moved to the "war party". For others, this is evidence that Poroshenko should act with an eye to that very “party of war” in Ukraine and say such things, but, nevertheless, the draft law on self-government in the south-east is itself a step forward. What do you think would be a reasonable acceptable status for these territories?
“From the very beginning, these territories asked for federalization.” Not more. And if then the Kiev authorities went for it, there would not be all this.
- And they would not try to repeal the law on languages.
- Yes. The president did not sign it - it is the parliament that passed this law. You refer to my article, in which I wanted to emphasize there, that Russia never demanded the separation of the southeast from Ukraine, you will not find it anywhere. I think that this did not appear in closed negotiations. The situation worsened after blood was shed, as civilians began to die. Now it is difficult to find some way out of the situation. I think you can agree on the basis of the element of federalization. But "federalization" is an extended concept. In the world, for example, there is a confederation. What, in Switzerland, each canton has a state structure, makes independent decisions in foreign policy? It is not, of course. There are both hard federalization and soft. Searches must be in this direction.
- As evidenced by the experience of recent months, sometimes, when the situation enters the mainstream of sanity, there can be very dramatic and unexpected turns. Of course, one of these turns was the collapse of the Malaysian liner over Eastern Ukraine. There are a lot of versions about what happened. Unfortunately, there are no clear answers from the international commission. The Malaysian authorities again complained that they could not gain access to the crash area. It is clear that you need to wait for technical expertise and so on. However, how do you think that could happen there?
“Those who closely follow the reaction of the West to these events, could have noticed that Ukraine at one moment disappeared from the front pages of newspapers.”
- In July, there was Hamas, Gaza Strip ...
- Yes, and Ukraine pushed somewhere. This could not like very much the individual groups in Kiev. I don't think it came from top management. There is in fact a heterogeneous guide. And again attracted attention after this aircraft was shot down. I think this version also has the right to exist.
Information