Military Review

Arystan (Lev) is a special unit of the National Security Committee of the Republic of Kazakhstan

31
Arystan (Lev) is a special unit of the National Security Committee of the Republic of Kazakhstan"Arystan" ...- special division of the National Security Committee of Kazakhstan on combating terrorism. Translated from the Kazakh: "Leo". The most professionally trained and technically equipped special unit of the republic. Equipped with the latest technology: in 2000-2001. For the squadron, modern equipment was purchased from the best Western firms - Kevlar helmets and body armor, costing thousands of dollars per set on 10-18, Zig-Zauer sniper rifles, communications equipment, engineer robots. In total, over one and a half million dollars were allocated for re-equipment and re-equipment. The unit is recruited only from the number of officers. In total, it consists of up to 100 fighters. The main base of Arystan is located in Astana, as the capital of the state and the location of the central office of the National Security Committee. In addition, the special units have two full-time branches: in Almaty - at the site of the original base, in Aktau (former Shevchenko) in the Caspian Sea - to ensure safety in the oil fields. As part of the latter, a combat swimmers unit was created, the first actual run-in of which was held in 2005 during the Yug-Antiterror-2005 CIS exercises in the Caspian Sea. Within the framework of the ATC CIS and the RATS SCO “Arystan” and the ATC KNB regularly participate in the international annual exercises held.

His history The Arystan service has been operating since 1990 of the year when, in Almaty, according to the order of the Chairman of the KGB of the USSR No. 0031 from 3 in March 1990, the 14 branch of Group A of the 7 control of the KGB of the USSR was established. The area of ​​responsibility of this regional division at that time included Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Omsk, Tomsk, Novosibirsk regions and Altai Krai. Created special forces did not immediately become operational. The actual formation was completed in October of 1990, the Alma-Ata-based Alfa was headed by Viktor N. Zorkin, a KGB officer who was transferred from his post as commander of a similar office in Khabarovsk. Almost until the very end of 1991 and the collapse of the USSR, Kazakhstan’s Alpha was engaged in combat training and was in combat duty: no serious incidents and, accordingly, special operations took its share during this period. However, there were some organizational changes. The combat strength of the group was replenished, and the 14 branch was converted to 12, and then 6, Group A. After the August events of 1991, Group A of the KGB was transferred directly to the USSR President M.S. Gorbachev and became part of the Security Directorate at the Office of the President of the USSR. Accordingly, the Alma-Ata subdivision “A” also became subordinated to the Security Directorate. 13 January 1992 was created on the basis of the Alma-Ata division "A" Nursultan Nazarbayev created directly subordinate to him the Department "A", which in fact became the first official military formation of Kazakhstan after the acquisition of state sovereignty. In April, 1993. Division A from the Presidential Guard Service was transferred to the National Security Committee (KNB), and on June 11 1994 was transformed into the Arystan Service (“Lion”) as part of the KNB. Arystan fully absorbed combat antiterrorism groups previously held in the central office of the KNB. Viktor Zorkin moved to Russia almost immediately after independence, where he continued his service. However, in 1991– 1992. Viktor Karpukhin, Major General of the KGB, Hero of the Soviet Union, who had combat experience and experience in training special forces, the former commander of the Allied Alpha, worked in opal after the August Coup in Kazakhstan. This is the only full-time special unit of the National Security Committee of Kazakhstan on combating terrorism. Under the jurisdiction of "Arystan": ensuring the safety of objects of increased environmental and radiation danger, the seizure of terrorists and armed criminals, preventing the actions of traffickers weapons, by drugs. Arystan is the only special-purpose unit, as an independent body of the National Security Committee, that possesses the appropriate technology, special weapons, equipment and technical means, whose activities are directly aimed at combating armed terrorism related to the hostage-taking. The Arystan service is a mobile rapid reaction unit and the main principle of its use is to conduct special operations to localize terrorist manifestations throughout the country, carried out by the special unit from its operational bases.

The first specialists were trained under the guidance of professionals from the group “A” of the KGB of the USSR, then they were sent to consolidate the skills they had received for refresher courses for officers of the anti-terrorist units to Moscow. Subsequently, the most trained special forces officers were trained at the CIA and FBI training centers in the United States of America.

In 1996-1997, specialists from the Arystan Service visited the leading anti-terrorist units of the Russian Federation (Alpha, Vympel), Germany (GSG-9), Israel (Yams), Great Britain (SAS) where they got acquainted with the methodology of education and training of specialists and the technology of special operations.

In the division, the most prepared graduates of higher military and civil educational institutions of the republic with excellent health and high sports qualifications are pre-selected. Preference is given to young guys specializing in various types of martial arts, military-applied sports and sniping. For further professional selection and study of moral and volitional qualities, a system of standards and requirements is used, based on the normative base for the training of special forces units of the USSR Ministry of Defense and the special forces of the US Army, modified accordingly in relation to our specifics. Specialists of a narrow professional orientation who meet the requirements - dog trainers, explosive technicians, telecommunications workers, system programmers are selected in the subdivision. To assess the level of preparedness, the entire personnel of the Service annually, according to the system operating in the unit, passes tests for fire, physical and special tactical training. Twice not complying with the requirements of standards are deducted from the unit. To consolidate and improve the level of acquired skills, during training, staff are trained in mastering all types of regular and special weapons, shooting at night, day and night, at extreme ranges and from short distances. The main focus is on developing skills for hitting the target from the first shot, first stage, on the move, by flares and sound, as well as firing in city conditions, in the mountains, on an airplane, on a train car, etc.

Each fighter is trained in hand-to-hand combat, combat grenade throwing, accelerated movement over long distances using a map and a compass, including in mountainous areas, swimming in difficult conditions. Classes on military engineering training using explosives are held regularly. In the classroom acquired skills of military medical training. As for tactical and special training, it is diverse, professionally multi-faceted, and very unusual from the point of view of both an army specialist and a security officer. They constantly develop and test skills for neutralizing terrorists and freeing hostages at various “objects” of the assault both in the city and in the field, during practical classes. During classes, elements of tension, surprise, danger and risk are introduced into the educational process. For rapid and sudden penetration into the premises through the windows, descent from high-rise buildings, structures, helicopters, fighters "Arystan", use special suspension systems. They are run-in on armored vehicles, are engaged in airborne training, are required to know any samples of automotive equipment, acquire the skills of driving and firing from an armored personnel carrier. Radio communication is carried out on standard radio communications when driving, on foot, in a car, in firing and in combat missions. To test their penetration methods, they study the technical structure of domestic and individual foreign airplanes, railway cars and buses.

For the successful implementation of the tasks assigned, the employees of Arystan use practically the whole range of both conventional “military” weapons and special ones. In particular, in operations involving the taking of hostages, silent, low-power, high-precision small arms are used, and so-called can be used to directly influence criminals. "Non-killing" products that have a shock, pain, light and sound effect. At the same time, for the elimination of a large criminal group that is actively firing resistance, Arystan has all the necessary forces and means. Accordingly, the tasks of equipping and equipping fighters of “Arystan” are significantly different from similar units of the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Internal Affairs. In particular, they use armor jackets of more than ten modifications, protective uniforms, including armored helmets, knee pads, elbow pads, goggles and gloves. For emergency penetration into the premises, specially designed kits are used. To search for explosives and narcotic substances - in the subdivision there is a search and explosive engineering unit with a dog service, which, along with specially trained mine detection dogs, is equipped with various special tools - robotic complexes, X-ray machines, hydraulic guns for the destruction of the HL and many others. In its activities, the special purpose subunit "Arystan" is guided by the Constitution, the legislation of the Republic of Kazakhstan, the regulatory legal acts of the National Security Committee, one of the main acts defining the powers of the special purpose subunit "Arystan" is the Decree of the President of the Republic of Kazakhstan having the force of the Law of December 21 “On the national security bodies of the Republic of Kazakhstan. "

In addition to the main task - combating terrorists - the functions of Arystan gradually added to the seizure of especially dangerous criminals, suppressing the actions of smugglers and arms dealers (in the case of their development by national security agencies), as well as searching and deactivating explosive devices (for which the service was equipped modern explosive kit). Nowadays the special training of “Arystan” is based not only on the Soviet experience. Special Forces employees undertook internships and training at the base of the Special Purpose Center (CSN) of the FSB, as well as the American CIA and FBI, the Israeli Yams, the British CAC and the German GHA-9. Each year, unit soldiers pass a qualifying exam. The training process within the unit is combined with working out the interaction of the personnel of the special unit with the BSS and PS, as well as with the forces of the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the ASF during joint operational-tactical exercises of various kinds on a republican scale.

Now the decision to involve “Arystan” in various official activities is taken mainly by the Anti-Terrorist Center (ATC) of the National Security Committee. In recent years, Arystan has been regularly involved in the detention of members of terrorist and extremist organizations throughout the country.

As part of "Arystan" has its own sapper unit. Insignia: cornflower beret. The Arystan anti-terror service consists of 2-3 controls. The standard of time for which fighters penetrate a bus seized by terrorists is 7 seconds. In a year or two, 8-10 lieutenants enter the Arystan for further service. For psychological training, the "lions" are on duty at the morgue and help the orderlies open the corpses in order not to be afraid of blood. To get the right to be called an Arystan employee, beginners go through tests that are similar to getting a maroon beret: they pass an obstacle course, prove their ability to handle weapons, demonstrate hand-to-hand combat techniques, engaging in real combat with three experienced squad fighters. At various times, the subunit was commanded: Colonel Aydar Bazylov, Colonel Fayzulla Kamenev, Major General Seytzhan Koibakov, and others.
Originator:
http://specnazopedia.narod.ru/spnkazah.html
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  1. aszzz888
    aszzz888 27 September 2014 09: 08
    -1
    Insignia: cornflower beret.

    And even the color is taken from our KGB.
    1. neri73-r
      neri73-r 27 September 2014 11: 03
      +10
      And even the color is taken from our KGB.

      In fairness, I must say that the KGB of the USSR was common to both ours and them! All these chicks from one nest, just further life is a little different!
    2. Walking
      Walking 27 September 2014 11: 18
      +4
      Quote: aszzz888
      Insignia: cornflower beret.

      And even the color is taken from our KGB.


      Наследственность.
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 27 September 2014 14: 24
        +5
        At the request of the employees of our Alpha, who asked to leave the capital letter A in the name of the detachment, they named the group "Arystan" (Leo) in order to preserve continuity and traditions. I don't know, but in my opinion, they themselves chose the name of the detachment.
        Other special forces: MO
        1. Bars is a mythical division of the Moscow Region (there was only a short message about him).
        2. Department. company SPN GRU (Alma-Ata)
        3. 1st br. fruit drink. Infantry of the Navy of the Republic of Kazakhstan (Atyrau)
        4. 1st separate baht. pestilence. infantry. (Uralsk).
        5. Mountain huntsman baht. (Taraz-Jambul)
        6. Intelligence-diving platoon of combat swimmers (Aktau)
        To be continued
        1. rope
          27 September 2014 14: 31
          0
          I heard somewhere that they are taking the best from Arstan to Kokzhal
        2. Hleb
          Hleb 27 September 2014 16: 11
          +1
          Can I have more information, for example, on marines in Uralsk?
          in Aktau, too, like a brigade of marines?
          1. Kasym
            Kasym 27 September 2014 19: 09
            +3
            "1st separate battalion of the marines" - the place of deployment is the city of Uralsk. Military unit No.-55033. The GRU General Staff of the Armed Forces of Kazakhstan has its own special unit. Tasks: reconnaissance and sabotage operations behind the front line. The structure, staff, number are unknown. There were rumors that this detachment in narrow circles was called "Berkut", but whether this is so - only Allah knows.
        3. Kasym
          Kasym 27 September 2014 18: 31
          +5
          Continued:
          7th det. Special Forces (Atyrau) - marine specialization
          8. 46th ad. special forces (since 2006 ODSHB; Akmola region.)
          9. Dept. special forces companies 5 and 165 ORB - reconnaissance battalions "East" and "South"
          Aeromob. troops - 6 people. (ex. in Alma-Ata)
          KazBat - 680 people. for UN operations and as part of a multinational. forces outside the republic
          10. Special Forces Border Troops of the National Security Committee (KGB of Kazakhstan)
          11. "Boran" - dec.-assault. maneuver. KNB Border Troops group
          12. "Arlan" - d.sh. maneuver. KNB Border Troops group
          13. Opera. rapid response detachment of the Mangystau border detachment of the National Security Committee
          14. "Ak-Barys" - parachute reconnaissance. detachment (central subdivision, Alma-Ata)
          MIA
          1. Sunkar - special forces for especially important tasks (analogue of Ros. Vityaz - syst. Preparation., Maroon beret)
          2. Arlan - special forces for everyday work (analogue grew. OMON - OPON)
          3. Leopard - baht. Riot police in Alma-Ata
          4. "Special Forces Company of the Chief Directorate of the Corner of the Ministry of Internal Affairs" (Alma-Ata)
          5. "SOBR" (Astana, Uralsk, Alma-Ata)
          6. The detachment of special forces of Ch. customs control Alma-Ata (platoon)
          7. Special Forces com. tax. police of the Republic of Kazakhstan.
          8. Kuzet - mobile units of the quick reaction of the Ministry of Internal Affairs
          Special Forces of the Internal Forces
          1. Golden eagle - special forces of the Committee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs VV (Alma-Ata)
          2. Sep. operas. baht. special desig. VV MVD (Kapchagay)
          3. Sep. special forces platoon 2nd OBRON VV RK (Chimkent)
          4. A platoon of special forces bat. VV Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Republic of Kazakhstan (Taldy-Kurgan)
          5. Platoon of special forces in military unit 6636 near Alma-Ata
          6. Training center. specialists in the fight against terrorism and extremism (used by all Central Asian countries)
          7. 640th Special Forces detachment of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Republic of Kazakhstan, 101 and 102 divisions. baht. Special Forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Republic of Kazakhstan
          All brigades and regiments of the opera have a company or platoon. Appointment VV RK. In total such a mouth / platoon. in RK 9-10. hi
          Part of the military. are tested annually for "maroon" beret
        4. Arman Tulegenov
          Arman Tulegenov 19 September 2019 00: 14
          0
          What you need to join this special squad Arystan
          1. Kasym
            Kasym 19 September 2019 19: 27
            0
            Arman, I have no idea. hi
  2. sv68
    sv68 27 September 2014 09: 30
    +17
    Well, the Kazakh brothers say, you can only give your lions the expression of all the features inherent in this cat-mind power and cunning. In short, peace to the Republic of Kazakhstan and prosperity!
    1. Tyumen
      Tyumen 27 September 2014 11: 18
      -7
      Quote: sv68
      to pity

      You can see it yourself, too, Kazakh?
      1. Argyn
        Argyn 27 September 2014 14: 08
        +8
        And did not Serik Sultangabiev Colonel save the Slav? What about the Tyumen? Or something you don’t like?
      2. PiP
        PiP 27 September 2014 17: 39
        +5
        Quote: Tyumen
        You can see it yourself, too, Kazakh?

        There is a difference?
  3. Vita_vko
    Vita_vko 27 September 2014 10: 28
    -5
    Here is one of the "exploits" of this unit http://www.ktk.kz/ru/news/video/2012/08/22/18719. It would be nice, in addition to modern weapons and training of supermen, to instill in such people some kind of moral values.
    1. Kazak-han 550
      Kazak-han 550 27 September 2014 11: 12
      +7
      Why are you obscuring your country, if you don’t like it, then who keeps you in Kazakhstan?
      1. Vita_vko
        Vita_vko 27 September 2014 11: 40
        +1
        Quote: Kazak-han 550
        Why are you obscuring your country, if you don’t like it, then who keeps you in Kazakhstan?

        Then I advise you to blindfold and plug your ears, then the feeling that you live on the Cote d'Azur will be even cooler.
        1. Aydar
          Aydar 27 September 2014 17: 51
          +1
          The question to you was- who keeps you in Kazakhstan, if you are so filthy here?
          Follow the example of "Serebryakovs" as soon as possible and go even to the Cote d'Azur, we promise we will not cry.
          1. scientist
            scientist 27 September 2014 21: 23
            0
            Quote: Aydar
            The question to you was- who keeps you in Kazakhstan, if you are so filthy here?

            Suitcase - Station - Russia. Something familiar, do not tell from where?
          2. Hleb
            Hleb 28 September 2014 14: 19
            0
            what a blather you are all the same)
            You yourself wrote today in the next topic:
            Why don't you like the "disrespectful uncommon" in the fact that the Kazakhs are discussing the heroic act of a Kazakh officer? Do you have a monopoly on the site chtol? And in general, you will indicate topics for "intimate conversations" to your wife, I am sure she will appreciate them.

            so what do you tell him to follow Serebryakov’s example? Who did you think you decided to leave for him or not, especially since he did not touch on this issue at all.
            in life, your spirit does not have enough to express such things in your eyes, and here you’re kerosene.
            simple modest Kazakh boy)
      2. Jaros81
        Jaros81 27 September 2014 11: 43
        +5
        And let's live in the same country again?
      3. Alibekulu
        Alibekulu 27 September 2014 19: 33
        +3
        Quote: Kazak-han 550
        Why are you obscuring your country, if you don’t like it, then who keeps you in Kazakhstan?
        Vita_vko, of course, a radish, for that well-deserved minus. But Arystan is also good. Soldiers of the KNB special unit "Arystan" were involved in the murder of Altynbek Sarsenbayev. I think it was generally necessary to disband after this. There, by the way, they performed so unprofessionally that they were very quickly tied
        Quote: Vita_vko
        Then I advise you to blindfold and plug your ears, then the feeling that you live on the Cote d'Azur will be even cooler.
        Well, after all, you don’t have constructive criticism, but the desire, when the opportunity arises, to defame Kazakhstan ..
        1. Vita_vko
          Vita_vko 27 September 2014 22: 09
          +1
          Quote: Alibekulu
          Well, after all, you don’t have constructive criticism, but the desire, when the opportunity arises, to defame Kazakhstan ..

          It is not worth putting the people of Kazakhstan and Kazakhstani law enforcement agencies on the same level. And how did I blaspheme Kazakhstan? That cited a link to the Kazakh media KTK? Maybe it really hurts your eyes? So you read the comments of Kazakhstanis at this link http://www.ktk.kz/ru/news/video/2012/08/22/18719 and make sure that this is only the tip of the iceberg. Now, if I just started to cite facts that I had to face personally due to my career, then your hair stood on end. Therefore, I wrote that in addition to special training for the people, it is vitally important that people serving in such units have high moral and ethical principles. As one of the prominent representatives of these special services said
          it’s better to imprison 10 innocent people than to allow one guilty person to remain at large
          Obviously, for such people, the difference between plant and kill minimal, which in particular proves the murder of Altynbek Sarsenbayev, the actions of Rakhat Aliyev, etc. And the fact that you credit the Kazakhstan special services that the terrorist attacks were carried out in the state ten times less than in Russia or China, is precisely the merit of these two countries, which are interested in stability in our vast territory, and therefore take the main the impact of international extremism on itself.
    2. Argyn
      Argyn 27 September 2014 14: 09
      +2
      Quote: Vita_vko
      Here is one of the "exploits" of this unit http://www.ktk.kz/ru/news/video/2012/08/22/18719. It would be nice, in addition to modern weapons and training of supermen, to instill in such people some kind of moral values.

      Believe me, they are children in comparison with the Americans and their actions to their compatriots!
    3. 290980
      290980 27 September 2014 14: 11
      +5
      Quote: Vita_vko
      Here is one of the "exploits" of this unit

      it also says "Alma-Ata special forces", and if for garlic, then at the competitions between the special services of the CIS (and there are such) Kazakhstanis many times performed better than all the participants, including Russians ... respect to Kazakhstanis.
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 27 September 2014 19: 29
        +5
        290980, if a Kazakhstani wrote this, few would believe it. I heard that the preparation and the exam itself for maroon takes tougher than in the Russian Federation. For example, the exam lasts for 2 days (including at night) without "sleep and rest". hi
        1. 290980
          290980 27 September 2014 23: 28
          +2
          Quote: Kasym
          290980, if it was written by a Kazakhstani, few would have believed.

          This is so, but Kazakhstan’s merit does not become less from this.
  4. rope
    27 September 2014 11: 08
    +3
    9 terrorist attacks suppressed in Kazakhstan since 2013
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 27 September 2014 19: 30
      +2
      Last year, over 80 people were imprisoned under articles for terrorism and extremism.
  5. Kazak-han 550
    Kazak-han 550 27 September 2014 11: 19
    +4
    The training of the Arystan fighters should include courses on tactics and strategies for managing military units in military / emergency conditions, so that each officer of this unit can quickly and professionally form combat groups from military / citizens to defend a certain area or seize objects held by extremists ...
  6. Kazak-han 550
    Kazak-han 550 27 September 2014 11: 28
    +3
    The militia in the south-east of Ukraine, led by professional military personnel, is very competent, the tactics of their military operations against the regular Ukrainian army could be analyzed and studied in detail in the military institutions of Kazakhstan ...
    1. rope
      27 September 2014 11: 34
      +4
      What regular Ukrainian army are you? This is an army of 18 year old boys
      1. asar
        asar 27 September 2014 15: 45
        +2
        + army of beer bellies!
  7. waggish
    waggish 27 September 2014 16: 46
    +2
    The last time they worked in Baganashil ............... not bad, but in the borda ......... disgusting !!!!!!!!!!!

    2 Kyrgyz president of the fugitive was also taken out ...... they were in junk with wings pr named an-26, after they decided to buy s-295, the fourth is on the way! It is necessary to learn from Sas and Yamama. nobody and nothing bothers!
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 27 September 2014 17: 36
      +2
      each special forces unit is created for specific purposes and tasks, and is used according to the profile (it should be so). The tasks and profile of "Arystan" are more similar to "Alpha", and you send them to study with the army special forces SAS, which is rather analogous to our special forces of the GRU .yes, the British have huge training and experience, including in urban conditions, in the seizure of buildings, the release of hostages, the destruction of terrorist attacks ... and you can-need to learn, learn from experience, but the main-profile.
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 27 September 2014 18: 58
        +3
        Gleb, everything is correct. Above is a more or less accurate list. And the AN-26 is a good workhorse aircraft (from any airfield). And the S-295 was taken because there are no production vehicles in the CIS in this class. In the conditions of the Republic of Kazakhstan (the absence of a full-fledged airfield infrastructure), ANs would be more appropriate than any other. But there are none, so far only piece. The RK had intentions to organize the assembly of ANs in our country, but not destiny. By the way, maybe because of the EAEU and the "split" of Ukraine, we will get something in terms of import substitution in the Russian Federation. Russia has a lot of projects:
        1. The Arctic and the Far East
        2. BAM-2
        3. Oriental
        4. Modern. and rearmament of the armed forces.
        5. Crimea
        6. Pipelines and infrastructure attached to it.
        7. Industrialization (modernization of industry, aircraft and shipbuilding)
        8. Infrastructure (railways and roads, gas and energy supply)
        9. Energy (without it all this cannot be lifted)
        And this is the first outfit. This baiga is also due to Ukraine and spoiled relations with the EU and the USA. So Kazakhstan needs to seize the moment - there is money, somewhere it will grow faster and something in our own interests should be raised in our common interests. hi
        1. Hleb
          Hleb 27 September 2014 19: 42
          0
          Yes, the information on the AN-26 is not interesting to me, it needed to be written for waggish.
          I was interested in the question on the marines, but what you threw off, I myself can read for example here:

          http://specnazopedia.narod.ru/spnkazah.html

          "1st separate battalion of the marines" ... - the location of the city of Uralsk. Military unit No.-55033. The GRU General Staff of the Armed Forces of Kazakhstan has its own special unit. Tasks: reconnaissance and sabotage operations behind the front line. The structure, staff, number are unknown. There were rumors that this detachment in narrow circles was called "Berkut", but whether this is so - only Allah knows.

          I want to learn from those who really know about the service there
          1. Kasym
            Kasym 27 September 2014 20: 32
            +3
            Gleb, GRU General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan says a lot. Such people will not write anything here, even if there is one. bully .
            Once I was sitting with one such grushnik at the table, even after half a liter of xer that you can stretch it out. Only when asked about interaction with the Russian Federation he said that "it was ordered to provide full support and assistance to the employees of the FSB of the Russian Federation on the territory of the Republic of Kazakhstan." And that's all. soldier
            1. Hleb
              Hleb 28 September 2014 01: 18
              0
              What is Kasym gross here? I asked the marines in Uralsk. You wrote to me
              place of deployment is the city of Uralsk. Military unit No.-55033

              Are you sure that there are marines in Uralsk, and military unit 55033 is not in Taraz, in the region?
  8. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 17: 34
    +1
    Quote: Vita_vko
    Here is one of the "exploits" of this unit http://www.ktk.kz/ru/news/video/2012/08/22/18719. It would be nice, in addition to modern weapons and training of supermen, to instill in such people some kind of moral values.


    And it would be even better to instill "moral values" to those special forces from the GRU who in Rostov had fun with prostitutes, drank and then crushed people and cars on the Tiger, and then ran away like hares from the cops.
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 17: 36
    0
    Quote: aszzz888
    Insignia: cornflower beret.

    And even the color is taken from our KGB.


    Poor "you" took everything from you, I'm sorry for you, maybe send a shirt to cover up nudity :)).
    And what "cornflower-blue berets" were worn only by "you"? Does the Golani Brigade still wear them? Did they commune them too?
  11. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 17: 42
    +1
    Kazak-han 550 Today, 11:19


    The training of the Arystan fighters should include courses on tactics and strategies for managing military units in military / emergency conditions, so that each officer of this unit can quickly and professionally form combat groups from military / citizens to defend a certain area or seize objects held by extremists ...
    This is superfluous, the SPN forces are created for specific operations and solve strategically and tactically important tasks - for this they are equipped and trained. Do you want them to lead Volkssturm? retirees and students? And then why did you visit the "military department", why did you put a bubble for absenteeism to the military commissar? You obviously did not serve in the army, because you do not know that a junior sergeant (CSO) or just a sergeant, his task of leading a squad, a platoon, even if there are solid "jackets", will perform better than any "reserve officer" and organize the defense tactically correctly ...
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 17: 48
    +1
    Quote: Gleb
    each special forces unit is created for specific purposes and tasks, and is used according to the profile (it should be so). The tasks and profile of "Arystan" are more similar to "Alpha", and you send them to study with the army special forces SAS, which is rather analogous to our special forces of the GRU .yes, the British have huge training and experience, including in urban conditions, in the seizure of buildings, the release of hostages, the destruction of terrorist attacks ... and you can-need to learn, learn from experience, but the main-profile.


    Why did you decide that "SAS is army special forces" colonel?
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 27 September 2014 18: 04
      +2
      well, because we know something about them, and in fact it is an army, because it is part of the armed forces structure.
      if you take Arystan, it doesn’t cause questions, to which department does it belong? The KNB, yes? take the Kazakhstan Golden Eagle, it’s also clear that the Ministry of Internal Affairs and not the Ministry of Defense
  14. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 17: 55
    +1
    Quote: Kazak-han 550
    The militia in the south-east of Ukraine, led by professional military personnel, is very competent, the tactics of their military operations against the regular Ukrainian army could be analyzed and studied in detail in the military institutions of Kazakhstan ...


    The "militias" who act "competently" are former and current officers of the Airborne Forces and SPN, as well as veterans of Afghanistan and Chechnya. A "simple militia", in order to get from the Cliff to the target at 1.5 km, or from the RPG-7 at least at the target at 200 meters, not to mention the shooting from the SPG-9, mortar, howitzer or MLRS "Grad" will take half his life minimum. Just take a shock from your stupidity and naivety.
  15. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 18: 05
    +1
    Quote: Kazak-han 550
    The militia in the south-east of Ukraine, led by professional military personnel, is very competent, the tactics of their military operations against the regular Ukrainian army could be analyzed and studied in detail in the military institutions of Kazakhstan ...


    If we give you, for example, the RPG-7 grenade launcher and five shots to it, explain to you the speed of the grenade, how to use the sight correctly, make adjustments for the wind, how to set up the position so that there are no unmasking factors and you are not demolished with a return burst, and also if to you to attach an experienced foreman-fireman, how do you think from what time you will hit or whether, for example, an armored personnel carrier will hit the target at a distance of 200-250 meters with a wind force of 20 km / h? The answer is that you will not hit either the first or the fifth time, end up being kicked out in the ass by a fireman, taking the grenade launcher himself and only on the second attempt (the first shot will be sighting) will hit the target, or in real conditions both of you after the first shots will be ground into minced meat - also with "the militia led by experienced military men." "Opolcheny" who thresh ukrov from grenade launchers, mortars and MLRS are military with very serious training.
  16. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 18: 12
    +2
    [quote = Gleb] well, because we know something about them, and in fact it is an army, because it is part of the armed forces structure.
    Colonel, as far as I know, SAS will perform a wide range of tasks, from deep reconnaissance in the interests of the Armed Forces, to anti-terrorist work, personal protection, espionage, that is, it also performs "non-military" tasks. If it belongs to the army, then it is possible only in terms of supply, transport, fire support and operational cover, so that the work of the SAS is attributed to army units, so that it is impossible to "spot" the fighters.
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 27 September 2014 19: 31
      +2
      If he belongs to the army, it is only possible in terms of supply, transport, fire support and operational cover

      yeah ... with whom I'm discussing
  17. The comment was deleted.
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 18: 41
    +2
    Quote: Kasym
    Continued:
    7th det. Special Forces (Atyrau) - marine specialization
    8. 46th ad. special forces (since 2006 ODSHB; Akmola region.)
    9. Dept. special forces companies 5 and 165 ORB - reconnaissance battalions "East" and "South"
    Aeromob. troops - 6 people. (ex. in Alma-Ata)
    KazBat - 680 people. for UN operations and as part of a multinational. forces outside the republic
    10. Special Forces Border Troops of the National Security Committee (KGB of Kazakhstan)
    11. "Boran" - dec.-assault. maneuver. KNB Border Troops group
    12. "Arlan" - d.sh. maneuver. KNB Border Troops group
    13. Opera. rapid response detachment of the Mangystau border detachment of the National Security Committee
    14. "Ak-Barys" - parachute reconnaissance. detachment (central subdivision, Alma-Ata)
    MIA
    1. Sunkar - special forces for especially important tasks (analogue of Ros. Vityaz - syst. Preparation., Maroon beret)
    2. Arlan - special forces for everyday work (analogue grew. OMON - OPON)
    3. Leopard - baht. Riot police in Alma-Ata
    4. "Special Forces Company of the Chief Directorate of the Corner of the Ministry of Internal Affairs" (Alma-Ata)
    5. "SOBR" (Astana, Uralsk, Alma-Ata)
    6. The detachment of special forces of Ch. customs control Alma-Ata (platoon)
    7. Special Forces com. tax. police of the Republic of Kazakhstan.
    8. Kuzet - mobile units of the quick reaction of the Ministry of Internal Affairs
    Special Forces of the Internal Forces
    1. Golden eagle - special forces of the Committee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs VV (Alma-Ata)
    2. Sep. operas. baht. special desig. VV MVD (Kapchagay)
    3. Sep. special forces platoon 2nd OBRON VV RK (Chimkent)
    4. A platoon of special forces bat. VV Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Republic of Kazakhstan (Taldy-Kurgan)
    5. Platoon of special forces in military unit 6636 near Alma-Ata
    6. Training center. specialists in the fight against terrorism and extremism (used by all Central Asian countries)
    7. 640th Special Forces detachment of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Republic of Kazakhstan, 101 and 102 divisions. baht. Special Forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Republic of Kazakhstan
    All brigades and regiments of the opera have a company or platoon. Appointment VV RK. In total such a mouth / platoon. in RK 9-10. hi
    Part of the military. are tested annually for "maroon" beret

    You have ancient information and not relevant. At least in parts of the Special Forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Republic of Kazakhstan. Let it be known to you that in the structure of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Internal Troops there is a professional unit of the Special Forces Special Forces of the Internal Troops "Berkut", the rest of the "special forces" units are separate battalions (platoons) of special purpose that are manned by conscripts. True, conscripts are taken there with sports categories (naturally, not in checkers), but they cannot be considered full-fledged special forces units, since their tasks are fundamentally different - so - suppression of riots, riots in colonies, escorting especially dangerous convicts, guarding facilities. They are not involved in combat operations as "main players"; they mainly provide external cordoning and protection of detainees.
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 27 September 2014 20: 12
      +2
      Aydar, I'm not going to argue. This complete information is probably possessed by several people in the Republic of Kazakhstan. Look at the title of the article. There is a link to the archive. That is why I looked into the "archive" of the Internet and posted what is abbreviated. To grow. the participants understood that structurally everything was created. Personnel and training is another matter. Here more depends on the fathers-commanders.
      Kuzet's task is quick response (time) and to be ready to pay off any cremins. conflict (armament-assault rifles, armor plates, etc.). And not be Rambo. That is, wheels, communications and weapons - EVERYTHING. If you were min. The Ministry of Internal Affairs would probably be concerned about the mobility and equipment of at least some unit for quick response. Here’s Kuzet and performs this function, you won’t equip all the cops with guns, this is redundant, but a couple of well-armed crews with wheels are needed.
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 27 September 2014 20: 46
        +1
        Aydar, carefully read about the Golden Eagle and all that is.
        So I figured in terms of numbers, taking into account the airmobile forces (Airborne Forces), the division (10 people - the times of the Second World War) is being recruited. Given the population of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan, then everything turns out proportionally. There are also somewhere around 000 people. Airborne + Special Forces. As far as I know, airborne troops are deployed at military airfields, only with transporters is not very good. Even 100 S-000 (max. 10 people, or 295 dess.) Is not enough. hi
  20. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 18: 46
    +1
    And to consider "Kuzet" as a special forces is generally a laughing matter to chickens, this is not a special forces but a VOKHR, they do not even have military weapons, they are armed with Saiga.
    "Sunkar" is not special forces at all, it is a unit to strengthen operational investigative groups, they leave when the investigator calls in cases when, for example, they do not want to open the door, or a drunken drunk with a knife threatens to blow up the planet.
    I personally know a couple of Sunkar fighters who can’t run 3 km - they are dying, and fifty dollars is a problem for them.
    1. rope
      27 September 2014 19: 28
      0
      Kokzhal is a special-purpose group of the Republican Guard of Kazakhstan. Translated from Kazakh: Leader of a pack of wolves. The group is part of military unit No. 0111. This special unit was formed in December 1995 based on the ideas and experience of several leading countries of the world. The first commander of the group, Major M.T.Makhatov, completed an internship abroad, in particular, he was back in the mid-1990s. visited the US CIA Counter Terrorism Center. The best candidates who previously served in special units of the KNB, the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, as well as athletes called up for military service under the contract, were sent to staff the group. In the selection of candidates by the command, special attention was paid to the trustworthiness of the special forces (as official historiography testifies, preference was given to those who clearly showed honesty and devotion to their homeland), as well as professional suitability (which was understood as composure, courage, the ability to make decisions independently in extreme situations, discipline and vigilance). After completing a six-month course of professional selection, where candidates passed physical, psychological and other special tests, those who passed passed were enrolled in the Kokzhal group. Already during the service in the special unit every month each soldier passed exams and passed professional suitability tests, but those who did not pass exams were immediately expelled. The current composition of the group is about 50 people, summarized in six combat units. Kokzhal’s fighters possess not only the basic military specialties, methods of effective shooting and hand-to-hand combat, they also undergo airborne landing, mountain rescue, diving and special training. The training is structured so that each department can perform its task independently. In the case of specific tasks, mixed combat squads can be formed from them. To date, the overwhelming majority of the personnel of the first sets of Kokzhal units have been transferred to service in the SOP, as well as other special units of the KNB, Moscow Region, and the Ministry of Internal Affairs. The fate of Kokzhal is contradictory: according to some sources, in 2000, the detachment was disbanded, according to others it still exists safely. I don’t know what to believe ... There are at least 2 companies of special forces in the Republican Guard brigade (Alma-Ata and Astana regiments) as of the summer of 2008. And that is absolutely accurate.
  21. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 19: 39
    -1
    Quote: Gleb
    If he belongs to the army, it is only possible in terms of supply, transport, fire support and operational cover

    yeah ... with whom I'm discussing

    Indeed: ((Goodbye Colonel, I think your Victoria Cross is yet to come, increase your theoretical professionalism for fear of the thieves, then I'll come check it out.
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 27 September 2014 19: 45
      +1
      Duck theorist, apparently Aidar, where did the dzhigit serve?
  22. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 19: 50
    +1
    Quote: Kasym
    290980, if a Kazakhstani wrote this, few would believe it. I heard that the preparation and the exam itself for maroon takes tougher than in the Russian Federation. For example, the exam lasts for 2 days (including at night) without "sleep and rest". hi

    The exam takes place at the base of military unit 5449 in the village of Zarechny, Almaty region. There are more than harsh climatic conditions, there is steppe all around, without a bush, there is no water, in summer there is a terrible heat, in winter there is high humidity and a heavy wind, sand dunes, when you feel your legs fall through the ankles - it's hard to run in tightly laced ankle boots - your legs are numb that caviar is about to burst comes within 1 km. In general, conditions are much tougher than in Russia and Belarus. Basically, the goal of the tests is to exhaust a person to the maximum physically and psychologically, so that “meat” that is not able to resist comes to the finish line to sparring.
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 19: 52
    +1
    Quote: Gleb
    Duck theorist, apparently Aidar, where did the dzhigit serve?

    What difference does it make to you? Precisely "not in your shelf from the sofa infantry."
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 27 September 2014 19: 58
      +3
      Yes, I only watch the language and you work as a servant. And you know about SAS in surrender.
      wherever you start talking, shit. you’ll finally get it all together. all theorists, and you’re Dartanyan.
      you cannot even explain to a person that he is wrong. adequately explain. in response, you start to throw the same shit:
      And it would be even better to instill "moral values" to those special forces from the GRU who in Rostov had fun with prostitutes, drank and then crushed people and cars on the Tiger, and then ran away like hares from the cops.

      as in a manger: "And you ... and you ... and I like this to you for this ..."
  25. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 20: 02
    0
    Quote: Kasym
    290980, if a Kazakhstani wrote this, few would believe it. I heard that the preparation and the exam itself for maroon takes tougher than in the Russian Federation. For example, the exam lasts for 2 days (including at night) without "sleep and rest". hi

    An exam is being held at the training ground of military unit 5449 of the Operational Brigade in Zarechny. Somehow, with my training platoon, I made a 7 km march there, in winter it was, in a bush coat and full gear, I thought my legs would burst and my eyes would fall out. It's really hard to run, a strong wind is blowing, the sand flies in your face, your feet get bogged down in the sand up to the ankles, the feeling that you are not running but just walking slowly, barely moving your legs, in fact you are running but with such a shallow and frequent jog. On "maroon beret" it is three times harder to hand over.
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 28 September 2014 01: 22
      +1
      Aidar, but is there a shooting range - where did the tenth graders take out for shooting at NVP?
      I’m fishing somehow, p. Or, 23 km down from Kapchagay, I saw DShBshnikov with full laying out circles down and up the river. There, the soil is similar to Zarechensky. They still looked like that heat, hell, dust, midges (there was no wind, we all played backgammon under an awning). And as a mockery for them - the Ili river with cool water is the commanders know how. hi
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Aydar
        Aydar 28 September 2014 10: 04
        +1
        Yes, this is "the place where the tenth graders were taken out for shooting at CWP." The route of the field exits of the Kapchagai brigade was earlier from Kapchagai to Zarechny, and then back along the Almaty-Kapshagai highway.
        I'm wondering, forgive my immodest curiosity, here you are talking about special forces, airplanes, they say that Kazakhstan has a huge special forces, so many detachments, even customs officers and those have their own special forces (trucks seem to be smoking :)), and you yourself are in did they serve in the army or did they sit out at the department, they say, let the aul boys swallow dust? An aul kid who served in the Kapshagai DShB may not know how to write and express his memories of the service competently and does not know maybe the performance characteristics of the Il-76 military transport aircraft or, for example, Transall, unlike you, but even 10 years after the service he can from the machine gun and from the AGS to hit the target. This is the difference between a real army and the Internet. In Kazakhstan, whole divisions and army corps of lieutenants and captains of "air-couch troops" have been raised, who paid grandmothers if only they were "otmazy" from the army and arranged for the military department - here you have real combat readiness. It got to the point that one figure is suggesting that the officers of Arystan should prepare "combat groups" from civilian bespectacled men :) And why should special forces officers now teach civilians what civilians have been running from for 20 years? No, the "cathedral military" should have their "generals" - also from the departments, but it would be good if the officers of the special forces passed on their combat experience to simple village boys who run along the Or along the Almaty-Kapshagai highway in full gear, while "generals are airy - sofa troops "indulge in the coolness of beer. How to say to each, his own.
        No offense, IMHO my private opinion.
        1. Aydar
          Aydar 28 September 2014 10: 27
          +1
          I, for example, even though I myself am a city, went into the army voluntarily, - it was interesting and my father said. I served and I do not regret it, although there was hazing and marching and anxiety, but the tempering remained for life. I can say one thing - there is no soldier better than a modest Kazakh black boy from the aul - these black boys speak Russian poorly, are hardy, wiry, after a year of service they make excellent junior commanders, while they are extremely unpretentious, they can without hot food with one biscuit in in a pocket in wet footcloths on guard and attire for days to stand (especially in a dukhanka when in a daily outfit of three members - two demobels), to make a march with full gear. No offense will be said, there were Russian guys in our regiment - but as the soldiers did not show themselves very well, they were too pampered and "knew their rights well" - that is, they knocked on the political officer.
          1. Hleb
            Hleb 28 September 2014 13: 47
            +2
            there’s no soldier better than a modest Kazakh black boy from the aul - these black boys speak poor Russian, hardy, sinewy, after a year of service they make excellent junior commanders, and they are extremely unpretentious, they can stand without hot food with one cracker in their pocket in wet footcloths in the guard and outfit for days on end (especially on a dukhanka, when there are two demobels in a daily outfit of three members), march throws with full gear. No offense will be said, there were Russian guys in our regiment - but as the soldiers did not show themselves very well, they were too pampered and "knew their rights well" - that is, they knocked on the political officer.
            -This is wonderful! as if I read the performance characteristics of the Mongolian horse breed)

            The Chechens were always show off:

            Today, a year later, or a century later
            I’ll end my life on a high note ...
            Chechen I, not just a person
            I am made of titanium, not of flesh!


            now also Kazakh)

            No offense will be said, there were Russian guys in our regiment - but how the soldiers did not show themselves very well, they were too pampered and "knew their rights well" - that is, they knocked on the political officer

            yeah damn you
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Kasym
          Kasym 28 September 2014 14: 59
          +1
          Aydar, what the ... nonsense about "let the boys from Aul swallow dust"? Is this how your parents taught you to communicate? I just asked about Zarechny! Yes, he served, DMB '89, Air Force, range service, "Munke". And he served normally, and later taught such guys in universities (KazSU, for example), and I think that at least he brought benefits to his COUNTRY no less than yours. He taught children in colleges and universities, or is it not a WORTHY profession (after all, Candidate of Science, Mat.)
          Well, you can forbid fishing. fool Also no offense soldier
  26. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 20: 15
    0
    Quote: Gleb
    Yes, I only watch the language and you work as a servant. And you know about SAS in surrender.
    wherever you start talking, shit. you’ll finally get it all together. all theorists, and you’re Dartanyan.
    you cannot even explain to a person that he is wrong. adequately explain. in response, you start to throw the same shit:
    And it would be even better to instill "moral values" to those special forces from the GRU who in Rostov had fun with prostitutes, drank and then crushed people and cars on the Tiger, and then ran away like hares from the cops.

    as in a manger: "And you ... and you ... and I like this to you for this ..."


    Do not be indignant about the colonel, it is better to go read Bushkov's "piranha hunt", you will like it :)
    And then what does it mean "you cannot explain even to a person that he is wrong. To adequately explain"? Each has its own truth, it is unlikely that a "person" hears any explanations if he is categorically convinced that he is right, why explain? it's easier to say that he is, even if he proves that I'm wrong.
  27. The comment was deleted.
  28. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 20: 22
    +1
    Quote: Kasym
    Aydar, I'm not going to argue. This complete information is probably possessed by several people in the Republic of Kazakhstan. Look at the title of the article. There is a link to the archive. That is why I looked into the "archive" of the Internet and posted what is abbreviated. To grow. the participants understood that structurally everything was created. Personnel and training is another matter. Here more depends on the fathers-commanders.
    Kuzet's task is quick response (time) and to be ready to pay off any cremins. conflict (armament-assault rifles, armor plates, etc.). And not be Rambo. That is, wheels, communications and weapons - EVERYTHING. If you were min. The Ministry of Internal Affairs would probably be concerned about the mobility and equipment of at least some unit for quick response. Here’s Kuzet and performs this function, you won’t equip all the cops with guns, this is redundant, but a couple of well-armed crews with wheels are needed.

    "Kuzet" is a subdivision of the "disturbing knork" outside security guard, previously they were part of the structure of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and I even knew its chief, Major General Bizhigitov OR. Now, as far as I know, this service has become corporatized and is a commercial one in the form of a joint-stock company, so to say that this "special unit" is not only ridiculous and generally does not fit into any framework. They have no "machine guns, bazookas, armored personnel carriers", please do not prove to me otherwise.
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 28 September 2014 02: 20
      +3
      Aydar, I am writing the ARCHIVE. The author laid out from the section of special forces only about our Alpha. And I added from there. From the archive. He showed that STRUCTURALLY special forces of all directions were created-MO, MVD, Border Guards, MVD MVD. What was deemed unnecessary was disbanded or transformed. For 23 years, creating such a system is rather difficult, i.e. without much experience. Therefore, the problems of natural growth and professionalism are not inevitable.
      And about the grushnik you got excited. I know his younger brother. And everywhere he is presented as you say - a clerical rat in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the KNB. But knowing what kind of education he received and his parents - dip. service abroad even under the USSR was a little surprised. And being at their home, I was left alone with the ml. brother. He climbed into the sideboard and showed me one "document" with a small met. an icon with an interesting inscription. And put it in place with the words: "I did not show it to you." This is a very erudite person, with knowledge of 5-6 languages ​​(spelling, reading and even pronunciation) - kants. rat. hi
  29. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 20: 38
    0
    Quote: Kasym
    Gleb, GRU General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan says a lot. Such people will not write anything here, even if there is one. bully .
    Once I was sitting with one such grushnik at the table, even after half a liter of xer that you can stretch it out. Only when asked about interaction with the Russian Federation he said that "it was ordered to provide full support and assistance to the employees of the FSB of the Russian Federation on the territory of the Republic of Kazakhstan." And that's all. soldier

    Forgive me for climbing without an invitation, but the "grushnik" about whom you know that he is a "grushnik" and who drinks beer, after which he says "that" he was ordered to provide full support and assistance to the FSB officers on the terr. RK "is not a grinder and not an operational officer, but most likely a clerk in the headquarters or a clerk. In general, a" paper clip ", so such, if I may say" sources ", is simply a shame of the Kazakhstani special services.
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. Aydar
    Aydar 27 September 2014 20: 58
    0
    Quote: Kasym
    ?

    Quote: Kasym
    Aydar, carefully read about the Golden Eagle and all that is.
    So I figured in terms of numbers, taking into account the airmobile forces (Airborne Forces), the division (10 people - the times of the Second World War) is being recruited. Given the population of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan, then everything turns out proportionally. There are also somewhere around 000 people. Airborne + Special Forces. As far as I know, airborne troops are deployed at military airfields, only with transporters is not very good. Even 100 S-000 (max. 10 people, or 295 dess.) Is not enough. hi

    Quote: Kasym
    Aydar, carefully read about the Golden Eagle and all that is.
    So I figured in terms of numbers, taking into account the airmobile forces (Airborne Forces), the division (10 people - the times of the Second World War) is being recruited. Given the population of the Russian Federation and the Republic of Kazakhstan, then everything turns out proportionally. There are also somewhere around 000 people. Airborne + Special Forces. As far as I know, airborne troops are deployed at military airfields, only with transporters is not very good. Even 100 S-000 (max. 10 people, or 295 dess.) Is not enough. hi

    Your calculations are not entirely correct, the real figures should be much more modest. As far as I know, there are no divisions in Kazakhstan, basically there are military districts and a brigade base has been adopted. In our brigade there was a regiment (three-troop composition and a support company) and two separate battalions. In the companies there was a shortage of men, according to the book of evening verification, according to the list, there were 130 people per company in the ranks, in fact there were 90 on average - the rest were "extinguished" and dead souls. The situation is similar in other parts. Minus the parts of constant combat readiness forced to maintain the staffing (but in fact there are no such in the KZ, more precisely, they are, but the general rashness allows us to say that in fact they are not), we can say that in Kazakhstan the only combat-ready unit is Kazbrig, the National Guard - I mean parts where there is a conscript.
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 28 September 2014 03: 23
      +2
      Aydar, frankly speaking, with these brigades and their numbers, trouble is for me (battalion, regimental, etc.). Therefore, I decided to compare with the good old names.
      Of course, I tentatively called "special forces". Rather, the rapid reaction forces of the Airborne Forces + Marines + GornoStrel. (I think this unit should have been increased, there were some messages). For example, recently it was said about the joint forces of the CSTO. The air defense is clear. We are talking about aerofoils, peacekeepers and special forces. No info. If this is implemented, then for sure there will be again STRUCTURAL changes. I'm talking about that archive list. It would be interesting what and how. What special forces, what aerofoil, what and how many peacekeepers. By the way, our peacekeepers started with a platoon in my opinion. And now a brigade (I don’t understand, in the old way it’s more than 600 baht. Motorized riflemen. Why they called a brigade - I don’t understand a damn thing with these brigades). Therefore, we will see some more new names and reformations. We must not forget any undercover struggle of all kinds of security officials. From the KNB to the tax authorities. GIVE ALL YOUR POCKET SPECIAL FORCES - ALL COOL. This, too, must "pass" and get sick. In my opinion, based on what YOU write, the National Academy of Sciences understands this - hence and .... Rakhat Aliyev also showed some example. hi
      1. 290980
        290980 28 September 2014 03: 46
        +2
        Quote: Kasym
        By the way, our peacekeepers began with a platoon in my opinion.

        right, and it was before the year 93 with which Kazbat is considered the year of foundation.
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 28 September 2014 04: 14
          +3
          I’m wondering about the joint air wing and special forces. After all, if the air defense is common, then surely our MiG-31s ​​will be modernized no worse than the Russian ones. The Russian Federation is planning a whole program for them. Then it was announced that all the radars (300 pieces) would be replaced with a new generation. Along the wing itself. There will probably be a Su-25, and the next. it is also possible to modernize Kazakhstani to a new level. MiG-29 and probably some kind of bomber of the Su-35 type (maybe they will buy here too, it is known that now only for the RF Air Force). Hopes are connected with
          1. GDP recently signed an agreement under which the Republic of Kazakhstan can purchase weapons for growth. prices.
          2. The National Academy of Sciences announced about a strategy for purchasing new weapons ten years ago. “In the far abroad, only that which our allies cannot do or that it is possible to organize production on site” is something like that. Well, there is no need to talk about allies. I must say that it is. In addition to the S-295, they did not buy anything, the rest was a trifle. That is why ours will not undertake (financially) the IL-114 (read in the Arguments of the Week, the last issue)? And for Russia, the benefits and investments will pay off 100% - its union market for him behind his eyes - hundreds and hundreds of cars, the Arctic and Dal.Vos. on what will they master?
          3. There is nothing new from shock types of weapons. Only modernization and repair. Boats there and some armored cars are going to collect. Yes, with the French radar (but this will fit for the civilian sector) and optics with the Turks.
          4. The situation in the world and the region.
          All this says that it is necessary and time to spend money on armaments. hi
          1. Vita_vko
            Vita_vko 28 September 2014 17: 50
            +1
            Quote: Kasym
            Hopes are connected with
            1. GDP recently signed an agreement under which the Republic of Kazakhstan can purchase weapons for growth. prices.
            2. NAS ten years ago announced about the strategy for the purchase of new weapons.

            The agreement signed within the framework of the military-technical cooperation of the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation for the purchase of weapons and military equipment at the domestic prices of the Russian Federation is precisely the main obstacle for our military officials. For example, under Serdyukov, the internal price of the manufacturer's plant was strictly controlled by military representatives, as a result, the enterprises worked at a loss and went bankrupt. This was part of a policy of squeezing military production out of large cities, where land is very expensive. Now the situation has leveled off, but the domestic prices of Russian enterprises still do not allow Kazakhstani officials to be given kickbacks commensurate with those given by Israeli companies such as (Tadiran, ICS), French (Thales), Spanish, Turkish (Asilsan, Hevils) and even Belarusian (Agat and Bedtechekport). All these companies unfasten the "right people" to the top, not directly, of course, but, for example, with real estate and accounts abroad registered for relatives. In turn, these necessary people give orders to the military to criticize Russian weapons in every possible way and give preference to those foreign companies that will be told from above.
            For example, there was such a case when the Russian-Kazakh working group, created by a written order of N.A. Nazarbayev himself, prepared a large program and contract for the ACS of the Navy of the Republic of Kazakhstan, taking into account all possible and impossible requirements. The project was prepared for almost 3 years. And literally within a month, I dismantle the Kazakhstan group, remove the chairman and dismiss, fabricate the criminal case into a secretary and immediately buy the Belarusian ACS at a price three times more expensive than the Russian counterpart, naturally many times worse! Just imagine the amount of kickbacks when the contract price is tens of billions of tenge.
            And so in almost all matters of the Russian-Kazakh military-technical cooperation. Therefore, Russian weapons in Kazakhstan are becoming less and less, and foreign dubious quality and reliability, but very expensive more and more.
          2. Alibekulu
            Alibekulu 28 September 2014 18: 38
            0
            Vita_vko Maybe it really hurts your eyes?
            You understand, as a rule, Kazakhs know Russian very well. All its nuances and tonality. And you, obviously, have one-sided orientation - everything that Kazakhs do, kickbacks and bribes. And what the Russians offer is zero gut. As for our elite, no one is building illusions about them. That they, that such as you scientists, are the enemies of our country. It’s good that you are not in the army, maybe it will reach them ..
            Kasym: GDP recently signed an agreement under which RK can purchase armaments in growth. prices.
            .
            Vita_vko Therefore, Russian weapons in Kazakhstan are becoming less and less, and foreign dubious quality and reliability, but very expensive more and more.
            Agay is not necessary for Russian, it is better for international .. Daveche Rustam wrote that the T-90A was offered to the Russian army at a price 118 million for Algeria and India are 88 million-difference of 30 million. By the way, the T-90 in 2007 was worth 56 million rubles.
            And for the Russian army, the T-90 was offered with leverage. And only at the request of the Moscow Region did the helm appear on the MS version, like everyone else in the world. By the way, for foreign orders, the kit comes with air conditioning. For his net.
            The price of Russian MCIs URAL 4320 BB - 500 thousand (and holds a current of 2 kg), Typhoon - 1 million euros, Casspir Mk6 based on the "Ural-4320" - 350 тыс.
            Kalashnikov was offered to Vietnam for 250 million. Galil ACE; Israeli for 170 million.
            So Vita_vko, something all of the above does not really fit with your statements .. request
            1. Vita_vko
              Vita_vko 28 September 2014 23: 55
              +1
              Quote: Alibekulu
              . Rustam wrote that T-90A was offered for the Russian army with a price of 118 million, for Algeria and India there are 88 million, a difference of 30 million. By the way, the T-90 in 2007 cost 56 million rubles.

              Prices can be compared only in the case of the same equipment configuration, because more than 50% of the price is made up of the filling. In addition, the amount of military contracts is always a trade secret, therefore the reliability of the information leaking on the Internet is 50x50. The real situation is known only to a small circle of specialists who are allowed to work on projects. But I strongly doubt that they will tell the truth. Because in Kazakhstan the circle of such specialists involved in the acquisition of weapons and military equipment is specially limited, since they work on a team from the top. The idea is to bring the discussion of at least IWT specifications to the level of collegial discussion in the military universities of the Republic of Kazakhstan, where there are scientific councils and competent, relatively independent specialists to cut the root of the Ministry of Defense of the Republic of Kazakhstan. Because everyone understands perfectly well that weapons in Kazakhstan are needed not to protect Kazakhstan, but to earn money from officials. The chairman of the Defense and Security Committee in the Majilis told me that the Ministry of Defense of the Republic of Kazakhstan is a black hole, no matter how much you don’t allocate, it is still stolen, although we asked for money to create a high-tech defense production with 50% foreign participation. In the end, the deputy turned out to be right, the enterprise was closed, money went into the pipe, foreigners got into serious money.
              Therefore, I do not need to tell you that I am bad because I see everything in gray tones. By and large, I won my own, that's just a pity for people like you, who in life are wearing pink glasses. If you yourself are not afraid of anything, then think about your children. It was not for nothing that the late Hero of the Soviet Union Sagadat Nurmagambetov said in the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan, "... and when I retired, I stopped sleeping altogether, because I know who is guarding me."
              1. Alibekulu
                Alibekulu 29 September 2014 13: 05
                0
                Quote: Vita_vko
                Prices can be compared only in the case of the same equipment configuration, because more than 50% of the price is made up of the filling. In addition, the amount of military contracts is always a trade secret.
                Currently, such a practice is generally recognized - a tender is held where everyone is participating. For example, in Vietnam, Kalashnikov had all the advantages:
                Pro-Russian country, shopping mall. 1) they perfectly remember who helped them during the war with the USA, 2) the predominant part of the military-political elite studied in the USSR, i.e. initially well related to Russia, 3) the political component - i.e. Ho Chi Minh City perceived the Kremlin as an ally in its confrontation with Beijing. 4) traditionally the army of Vietnam was armed with Soviet (consider Russian) weapons.
                And despite these factors, the AK-12 outright lost to Galil, both in price, quality and performance characteristics.
                To a heap, once again - why are Russian-made satellites rusting at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, and not French ones ?! Where is Baiterek, which cost $ 2 billion?
                Quote: Vita_vko
                I'm sorry for people like you, who in life are wearing pink glasses.
                From Urajna it is clear that your pity is worth it. No thanks, you have pink ones. Since you see kickbacks everywhere, where the Republic of Kazakhstan cooperates with foreign countries, at the same time, you do not see at close range that “kickbacks” are working to their full extent in the Russian Federation, especially in the absence of competition. Here on the site it is said about "Serdyukovshchina" about 17-apartment building of Vasileva and many others. other ?!
                Quote: Vita_vko
                By and large, I won my
                I understand the reasons for these appeals, cutting off from the feeder ?!
                There are many Russians here who criticize Russian reality and the situation in the military sphere, so their point of view seems to me to be much more objective than yours, frankly one-sided and pro-Russian.
                Quote: Gleb
                you know how we have in Kazakhstan, to be called up, you need to pay.
                Candid sketch. Not always and not everywhere. And certainly not in SevKaz. Yes, practice exists, but not in large quantities. And so quickly tied. Mostly for connections and good acquaintance. We from the village served those who, in principle, could not give a bribe due to lack of money.
                1. Vita_vko
                  Vita_vko 29 September 2014 18: 28
                  +1
                  Quote: Alibekulu
                  AK-12 outright lost to Galil

                  He lost in exactly the same way as in 2008, the Israeli Nise won the tender against the Russian BM-21 Grad. Or do you think naive officials in Vietnam do not take bribes?
                  And another question, why do you think why Lieutenant General K. Mermanov still not released from prison? Everything is very simple, this person has nothing to lose and he will be silent, and the people who personally gave him orders, including written orders, to acquire Israeli developments, Nise, Semser and Aybat are in high public service, and the kickbacks received from the Jews are so and remained in foreign accounts.
                  1. Alibekulu
                    Alibekulu 29 September 2014 20: 58
                    +2
                    Quote: Vita_vko
                    He lost in exactly the same way as in 2008, the Israeli Nise won the tender against the Russian BM-21 Grad.
                    Was there a boy? (tender i.e.)
                    Quote: Vita_vko
                    Or do you think naive officials in Vietnam do not take bribes?
                    And that poor Raseya didn't have enough money to "skid" ?! Or bureaucrats, so honest and incorruptible that even the thought of a bribe disgusts them ?! laughing
                    As for the Vietnamese tender, here on VO there were several articles where they came to a general conclusion about the superiority of Galil ..
                    Again, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation also noted the purchase of foreign military products. Moreover, examples were also given here that Russian specialty buys foreign equipment for its own money request . Ali, too, because of bribes))
                    And your arguments completely repeat the Kremlin’s position on the annexation / return of the Crimea - to make the face a brick and stupidly stand your ground ..
                    Quote: Vita_vko
                    and kickbacks received from the Jews remained on foreign accounts.
                    Well, you didn't open America to me. I think it was not without bribes. But at the same time, representing the officials of the Russian military-industrial complex "in white" is of course a diagnosis ..
                    1. Vita_vko
                      Vita_vko 29 September 2014 21: 53
                      +1
                      Quote: Alibekulu
                      to represent officials of the Russian military-industrial complex "in white" is of course a diagnosis ..

                      The diagnosis is when they try to see a speck in someone else's eye, but they don't see a log in their own! Where did I write that Russian officials are white and fluffy? Yes, it is just as unprofitable for them to work with Kazakhstan because of the absence of kickbacks from kickbacks, as it is for Kazakhstani with them. Or do you think that there (in Russia) they are very worried about the fact that they have lost such a "market" as Kazakhstan? Do not make me laugh. They wanted to spit on everything that was going on here, the main thing was that there were no American military bases. So live with your diagnosis of "smartest and fluffiest" yourself.
                      1. Alibekulu
                        Alibekulu 30 September 2014 12: 59
                        +2
                        Quote: Vita_vko
                        Yes, it is also not profitable for them to work with Kazakhstan due to the lack of kickbacks from kickbacks, as well as Kazakhstan with them.
                        "Yuri Benediktovich - you are a golden man. You think about Russia all. Do not get tired of writing" nonsense "- really, a sane person, will believe that Russian officials work without kickbacks .. wink You, my friend, are you holding us for degenerates ?!
                        My point of view was formed by a top-class man, here I have repeatedly spoken about "kickbacks" in the RF Armed Forces and the military-industrial complex. And the opinion of Rustam and Naihas is clearer and more logical to me, who directly write that the prices of RossVPK products are often unrealistic, and the quality is below criticism.
                        Quote: Vita_vko
                        Or do you think that there (in Russia) they are very worried about the fact that they have lost such a "market" as Kazakhstan?
                        Listen, according to your comment, we have the same position. yes Let our Moscow Region buy foreign products - and thereby save the Russians who are not profitable to work with Kazakhstan. In his turn, Mr. receives high-quality military products at reasonable prices.
                        By the way, $ 2 billion for "Baiterek" is not enough ?!
                        The Kazakhstan market is very valuable for the Russian Federation. In the near future, a massive re-equipment of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan is planned.
                        Quote: Vita_vko
                        They wanted to spit on everything that was going on, the main thing is that the American had military bases.
                        It's good if you don't care. I would be very happy about that.
                        Quote: Vita_vko
                        So live with your diagnosis of "smartest and fluffiest" yourself.
                        OK hi Let each of us stay with our "diagnosis".
                        P.S. You, of course, well done, that you so vehemently defend Russian interests, but where does Mr. ?! (here is the opinion of an Internet hamster drinks )
  32. The comment was deleted.
  33. Aydar
    Aydar 28 September 2014 09: 50
    0
    Quote: scientist
    Quote: Aydar
    The question to you was- who keeps you in Kazakhstan, if you are so filthy here?

    Suitcase - Station - Russia. Something familiar, do not tell from where?

    Yes, for God's sake, is someone holding you here forcibly? T = Go to Russia, maybe your talents will work for something more there. From this position, you are sorry to look like an unhappy woman living with her unloved husband. Leave at least to Russia, even to Australia, anywhere, is it possible that someone in Kazakhstan doesn’t let you out with chains of jokes?
    1. 290980
      290980 28 September 2014 13: 35
      +2
      Quote: Aydar

      Yes, for God's sake, is someone holding you here forcibly? T = Go to Russia, maybe your talents will work for something more there. From this position, you are sorry to look like an unhappy woman living with her unloved husband. Leave at least to Russia, even to Australia, anywhere, is it possible that someone in Kazakhstan doesn’t let you out with chains of jokes?

      healthy criticism in the circle of reasonable people is only beneficial, if criticism is present it means something is going wrong, and answers like: -Do not like it, go to Russia, Germany and there is the position of an unhappy woman living with her unloved husband, just that, go fuck .. ..that many have piled.
    2. Hleb
      Hleb 28 September 2014 13: 42
      +2
      missed in the morning? how are you at all? did he write that he was forcibly kept or not released? he then drove drool over the next topic about being expelled from the topic.
      there’s nothing to answer, you repeat the same thing. And leave your assumptions to yourself. Who he looks like and where his talents come in handy.
      modest Kazakh black boy from aulcutting the topic of special forces)
  34. Aydar
    Aydar 28 September 2014 15: 05
    0
    Take off the beauty, today I'm not yours. There was a soldier in our company by the name of Orlovsky, by the way, also Gleb, and so this Gleb in the outhouse Bread was eating. Do you know what is serving in the army? So it's not you camping trip?
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 28 September 2014 15: 33
      0
      I didn’t serve. I didn’t have money to bribe the military commissar. But you know how we have in Kazakhstan — to be called up, you have to pay.
      and tell me more about the service and Russian informers, Chmyr?
      1. rope
        28 September 2014 17: 51
        0
        how much money do I need to get to the Army, I want in 2 years to join the army
        1. Hleb
          Hleb 28 September 2014 18: 29
          +1
          on the ground, you need to decide)




          and most importantly not to make a mistake)
          1. rope
            28 September 2014 18: 49
            0
            I see, you Russian nationalist left Kazakhstan everywhere you feel bad
            1. Hleb
              Hleb 28 September 2014 21: 29
              0
              logical cho
              1. rope
                28 September 2014 21: 39
                -2
                such as you I crushed at school with friends and even now in college
                1. Hleb
                  Hleb 28 September 2014 21: 43
                  -1
                  well started)
                  and without friends you push? how often?
                  1. Kasym
                    Kasym 28 September 2014 23: 10
                    +1
                    Oh, guys, because of the "little things" they got hooked and it came to .... I do not think that having met in life would have come to this - tie. Respect each other! IMHO.
                    1. Hleb
                      Hleb 28 September 2014 23: 30
                      0
                      Well, if it started, then at the cable car. I personally smile when I read it. The balashka is young, hot)
                      but to meet without problems if someone lives in the North Kazakhstan region. They would sit at the table, have a drink, have a bite, we’ve been talking about the affairs of our mournful)
                      without IMHA
            2. costa_cs
              costa_cs 29 September 2014 08: 07
              +1
              Rope, brother, you're wrong here and your comment is out of place.
          2. costa_cs
            costa_cs 29 September 2014 08: 05
            +2
            Thanks for the pictures, smiled)))
            + For your positive
            according to sabzh: one day I had a chance to go in a compartment with one officer from Arystan, they talked a lot on different topics and he left a rather positive impression on himself. Serious and competent man. On such as he should be equal.
    2. 290980
      290980 28 September 2014 15: 44
      +4
      Quote: Aydar
      Take off the beauty, today I'm not yours. There was a soldier in our company by the name of Orlovsky, by the way, also Gleb, and so this Gleb in the outhouse Bread was eating. Do you know what is serving in the army? So it's not you camping trip?


      Idar stop, do not spoil the opinions of others about yourself, I also saw how Kazakhs carried bread in their pockets, and this is the same thing that you described above.
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 28 September 2014 22: 56
        +1
        Especially in the early days, in quarantine or in training. Especially those who are used to eating late at home. wink
        1. 290980
          290980 29 September 2014 00: 57
          0
          Quote: Kasym
          Especially in the early days, in quarantine or in training. Especially those who are used to eating late at home. wink

          but somehow in the early days it was a bit rough for everyone, we ran around the city elephant almost every night to a bakery, soldierly bed linen for bread for the whole company and ate laughing .
  35. The comment was deleted.
  36. Aydar
    Aydar 28 September 2014 15: 11
    0
    Quote: Kasym
    Aydar, what the ... nonsense about "let the boys from Aul swallow dust"? Is this how your parents taught you to communicate? I just asked about Zarechny! Yes, he served, DMB '89, Air Force, range service, "Munke". And he served normally, and later taught such guys in universities (KazSU, for example), and I think that at least he brought benefits to his COUNTRY no less than yours. He taught children in colleges and universities, or is it not a WORTHY profession (after all, Candidate of Science, Mat.)
    Well, you can forbid fishing. fool Also no offense soldier


    Well, of course, the Soviet times are still, then I apologize - you thought you were younger, the question is too green for our time. There are two options, either they are set by the "reserve lieutenant" who valiantly "studied" with the military commander at the department, or a person from the SA since whose time everything has long changed.
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 28 September 2014 22: 53
      +1
      Ah, Aydar, and there he shot at 18 out of 30 at the NVP in 1985. You in your comment write what is there. I assumed, and not the roofing felts this place? That's all! And your fantasy has broken out! Here you are with Semurg something similar. I wrote something, so he later turned out his own ... conspiracy theory. belay . Then a whole correspondence to find out the position! Ask-answer. Well, went fishing with friends for a few days. And then the service crowd (platoon) flee. Sergeants cigarettes warmed up, exchanged a few words. All things. Now look at your OPUS.
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. 290980
    290980 28 September 2014 19: 56
    -1
    a question for the Kazakhs, right now I watched the film and the info present in it a little strained, watch from 27-29 minutes, they give video chronicle as evidence, so how to name the people of the Republic of Kazakhstan correctly?
    1. rope
      28 September 2014 20: 08
      0

      here's how to call correctly Russian
      1. Proud.
        Proud. 28 September 2014 21: 14
        +1
        Quote: rope
        here's how to call correctly Russian

        There are plenty of ushlepoks everywhere. So, don’t talk about the Russians. Tajik ushlopokas are also enough. This is if you don’t dig deeper. I’m talking about Tajikistan. Starting from the collapse of the USSR and beyond. About them and crimes against the Russians. I suggest not to continue.
    2. Zymran
      Zymran 28 September 2014 20: 20
      +1
      According to the ethnonym Kazakh - here http://eurasica.ru/articles/kazakh/tursun_sultanov_kto_takie_kazahi/
  39. Zymran
    Zymran 28 September 2014 20: 28
    0
    About why they called the Kyrgyz here http://www.kazakh.ru/news/articles/?a=363
  40. 505506
    505506 29 September 2014 04: 44
    0
    I read the article, it was very nice. This is how you need to write about your army, about its elite, whether you are Kazakh, Russian, or someone else. Without watering and coating. And leave the rubbish to journalists, they feed on this (not all, but many). Otherwise, the authority of your army cannot be raised. Remember how in the early 90s they spat at their own officers. Indiscriminately.
  41. mackonya
    mackonya 29 September 2014 07: 11
    0
    Instead of discussing uniforms, weapons and the continuity of the unit, some begin to "stir up" national hostility.
  42. Aydar
    Aydar 29 September 2014 08: 18
    +1
    Quote: Be proud.
    About their attitude, and crimes in relation to the Russians. I propose not to continue.

    You can continue, why not? You can also talk about the crimes of the "Russians" in relation to other peoples. and then you have "Russians" straight lambs of God, all of them bully and drive.
  43. Aldo
    Aldo 29 September 2014 08: 33
    +2
    Yes, finish the national squabble to arrange. all nations have heroes and all have natsik and rotten.
  44. waggish
    waggish 4 October 2014 16: 25
    +1
    We must learn to act abroad!
    1. rope
      6 October 2014 23: 32
      0
      and Kyrgyzstan is not enough?
  45. Beiderlei
    Beiderlei 1 December 2014 15: 35
    0
    We must act outside the country!
  46. The comment was deleted.