Military Review

Divisions VV MIA returned the name Dzerzhinsky. How many liberals jumped off the roof?

457
Russian ultraliberal media outraged at the return of a separate division of the Internal Troops named after Felix Dzerzhinsky. This year, the division of the Interior Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation celebrates the 90 anniversary since its formation, and the order to return the division to the historic name was signed by President Vladimir Putin. The division bore the name of “Iron Felix” from 1926 (it gained 2 after its creation) to 1994.

Divisions VV MIA returned the name Dzerzhinsky. How many liberals jumped off the roof?


Information on the return of a separate Order of Lenin and the October Revolution of the Red Banner Motorized Rifle Division for Special Purpose of Internal Troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation of a historical name was disseminated by Russian news agencies. The presidential decree says that the name of the division was returned (quote) "at the request of division veterans" and "for restoration historical justice. "

Such messages caused a storm of negativity among commentators on Echo and Rain. We bring to your attention a few comments. news from "Echo of Moscow".

Karu
there is someone to shoot the people.


alexakimfaa
Well, if they decided to call the city again on behalf of Stalin, then the division of the Internal Troops (read the NKVD), to call it, is not a problem. After all, this was done at the request of the citizens - the veterans of this division. It is interesting to know, and who are these "veterans"? What is their track record? A division is punitive, not a combined-arms (ie, army).


tantalic32_88
At last, the divisions of full-time Putin punishers assigned the appropriate name, a bloody punisher from the past.


In general, Ostap suffered ... However, the oratorio of the liberal chorus was badly spoiled by other readers of the Echo site (and there were those too).

petrovich_5
How many liberals from such a roof will jump down from such a roof today ... Especially, if we spend too much time on it for days.
457 comments
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  1. Civil
    Civil 22 September 2014 16: 46
    -236
    Faithful dear comrades! Samara back to Kuibyshev, Chelny to Brezhnev!
    1. I ask the competent comrades to record and record in the protocol who will overshadow our progressive initiatives.
    2. Disagree with our initiatives within 3 days to appear at the appropriate address with things.
    1. ispaniard
      ispaniard 22 September 2014 16: 50
      +183
      Civilian, well, at the expense of the last two, you seem to have gone too far ...
      Quote: Civil
      EP in the Communist Party! FSIN-GULAG!

      We do not call the Opposition - "Slaves of Hamon" ...

      P.S. I wonder when the monument to "Iron Felix" will be returned to the Lubyanka, what will happen to the opposition then?)))
      1. Civil
        Civil 22 September 2014 16: 52
        +61
        Quote: ispaniard
        Civilian, well, at the expense of the last two, you seem to have gone too far ...
        Quote: Civil
        EP in the Communist Party! FSIN-GULAG!

        We do not call the Opposition - "Slaves of Hamon" ...

        And do not distort, there is no opposition, there are only TRAITORS. Or are you of a different opinion?
        1. Telakh
          Telakh 22 September 2014 17: 00
          +40
          There is no term opposition. There are people with other political and economic ideas and not necessarily erroneous. Other preferences in terms of government, including.
          The term opposition is an artificial opposition of their existing power in order to mix them together in the eyes of an uninhabited layman.
          But radical forces, no matter what their just (in their understanding) goals, pursuing a boat in conditions of war (economic / cold including) are criminals and / or traitors. Like bombers under the king.
          1. Homo
            Homo 22 September 2014 18: 01
            +7
            Quote: Telakh
            There is no term opposition.

            TSB - Opposition (from lat. Oppositio - contrast)
            1) opposition, resistance, opposition of their views, their policies
            any other politics, other views.
            2) A party or group that opposes the majority opinion or
            prevailing opinion.
            WIKI - Opposition (from lat. Oppositio “opposition, opposition”) in politics -
            a party or group opposing a dominant party or opinion,
            supported by the majority. It is also the political activity of parties, groups and
            movements opposing the government course and leading with the ruling party
            (in parties) the struggle for state power.
            1. rauffg
              rauffg 22 September 2014 19: 46
              +11
              For me, the best opposition is the opposing engine.
            2. Civil
              Civil 22 September 2014 20: 09
              -10
              Quote: Homo
              Quote: Telakh
              There is no term opposition.

              TSB - Opposition (from lat. Oppositio - contrast)
              1) opposition, resistance, opposition of their views, their policies
              any other politics, other views.
              2) A party or group that opposes the majority opinion or
              prevailing opinion.
              WIKI - Opposition (from lat. Oppositio “opposition, opposition”) in politics -
              a party or group opposing a dominant party or opinion,
              supported by the majority. It is also the political activity of parties, groups and
              movements opposing the government course and leading with the ruling party
              (in parties) the struggle for state power.

              Do you justify liberalism with this? And clowns from the parliamentary minority? Enemy terminology? Under Stalin, and for less went to the all-Union construction sites!
              1. Interface
                Interface 23 September 2014 00: 10
                +16
                Under Stalin, and for less went to the all-Union construction sites!


                I agree in everything, but.

                1. They went to the All-Union construction sites on Komsomol vouchers, and they were introduced at Khrushchev.

                2. Under Stalin, the counterrevolutionaries and especially dangerous criminals did not go to all-Union construction sites, but to the Gulag, excuse me.
                1. PSih2097
                  PSih2097 23 September 2014 01: 24
                  +2
                  Quote: Interface
                  and in the Gulag,

                  and what did they do there? Is it not construction sites ???
                  1. Slavianin_37
                    Slavianin_37 23 September 2014 10: 39
                    +1
                    A.I.Solzhenitsyn describes not only construction sites and sharazhki, pay attention. Nobody canceled uranium mines and logging either.
                    1. prio124
                      prio124 24 September 2014 01: 58
                      +4
                      "Isakych" himself called his writings an artistic invention of the author. If you want, I will compose for you separately about the mines. For a fee, of course.
                      1. vassa
                        vassa 24 September 2014 08: 25
                        -2
                        Too many people died there, what would you call it fiction. Nothing will come of you, comrade. I had a grandfather there for a noble birth. And my family hid all my life. Why? For origin. How afraid are you to face the truth, comrades ...
                      2. Cynic
                        Cynic 24 September 2014 11: 17
                        +2
                        Quote: vassa
                        Too many people have died there to call it fiction.
                      3. perm23
                        perm23 24 September 2014 18: 17
                        +1
                        Please remember that this was a different time - this was the second and second time there were criminals of all stripes. Someone would say stole wheat for the family and planted it. But what is wrong or something that you cannot always steal at all times. And to find excuses for ourselves as a native, here we are Mstera
                      4. Dry_T-50
                        Dry_T-50 24 September 2014 20: 46
                        0
                        This photo should be shown to all those who hate "Scoop".
                      5. Zlata
                        Zlata 26 September 2014 03: 13
                        0
                        Yes, they don’t choose the past. But if you do not give an adequate assessment of the past, all these horrors can be repeated in the future. An example is Bandera in Ukraine.
                      6. perm23
                        perm23 24 September 2014 18: 14
                        +1
                        Everything was and there wasn’t much. The nobles didn’t share the boys either. Everything in the life of Russia was. I don’t need a lot of water. And where does Dzerzhinsky come in. A lot of things happened with scoundrels and hangers-on, everything was both denunciations and slander. And this was done not only by the Communists, but also by other citizens, including the nobles. Scum always enough and in all classes. And the most important thing was there at one time, and now it’s wrong to discuss how it was necessary. You can recall a lot of princes and anything else. Do not hang everything on one Dzerzhinsky
                      7. The comment was deleted.
                      8. Lyuba1965_01
                        Lyuba1965_01 24 September 2014 20: 40
                        +2
                        I agree. The excess was to hell.
                        So it was good.
                        And the fact that with the help of Dzerzhinsky children's crime was almost completely eliminated, boys, yesterday's homeless children, thieves and beggars, graduated from vocational schools, received a profession, became normal people, so this is also a great merit of Dzerzhinsky.
                        And again: understand, there was such a time.
                        When the nobles supported the White Guard movement, there was no time for a showdown about who was right and who was to blame.
                        And after the 53rd year, with the death of Stalin, it seems that the social origin did not interest anyone.
                        My paternal grandfather survived only thanks to these Dzerzhinsky schools.
                        The last place he retired from was the bridge engineer.
                        And before he was forced to study, he could neither write nor read, he was from a vigilant peasant family.
                        In civilian life he was left without a father, was the eldest in the family, where, in addition to him, there were five more youngsters.
                        So he had to fight and beg.
                        And all his life he only with gratitude recalled that he had become educated, that he could learn, although it would not have shone for him under the tsar.
                      9. Nicanor
                        Nicanor 24 September 2014 21: 12
                        +1
                        My grandfather also visited there, (10 years old). His wife and children, when he was released to the settlement, went north to Salekhard to him. They never hid anywhere ... What is characteristic is that before the landing the grandfather was expelled from the party, but never from him a bad word, they did not hear about this party until their death.
                      10. The comment was deleted.
                      11. Zlata
                        Zlata 26 September 2014 03: 06
                        0
                        Quote: vassa
                        Too many people died there, what would you call it fiction. Nothing will come of you, comrade. I had a grandfather there for a noble birth. And my family hid all my life. Why? For origin. How afraid are you to face the truth, comrades ...


                        On this site, as I already understood, there are many people from the Communist Party. Therefore, you will be minus for the truth mercilessly, get ready. To them your truth is like a red rag for a bull. For them, the main thing is the promotion of their ideology. And they are ready, like a bulldozer, to shout at anyone who disagrees with them and whose truth can cast a shadow on their ideals.
                2. 11111mail.ru
                  11111mail.ru 23 September 2014 05: 28
                  +4
                  Quote: Interface
                  Under Stalin, the counter-revolutionaries and especially dangerous criminals did not go to all-Union construction sites, but to the Gulag, excuse me.

                  And who supervised the construction of this object? "And he will live a beautiful new life that the Belomorkanal gave ..."
                  1. muhomor
                    muhomor 24 September 2014 16: 29
                    +1
                    The builders of the Belomor Canal, by the way, were amnestied at the end!
              2. Homo
                Homo 23 September 2014 00: 14
                +4
                Quote: Civil
                Do you justify liberalism with this? And clowns from the parliamentary minority? Enemy terminology? Under Stalin, and for less went to the all-Union construction sites!

                I do not justify anyone, I do not argue with anyone. I enlightened the man who said that there is no term opposition.
              3. prio124
                prio124 24 September 2014 01: 55
                +3
                You still write about the millions and millions of executed people, livestock, a week’s imprisonment in the country from 22.06, etc., etc. Old foolish tales.
                1. vassa
                  vassa 24 September 2014 08: 26
                  -2
                  THIS IS NOT TALES !!!!!!!!!
                  AH, you would go there !!!
                  1. cap54
                    cap54 24 September 2014 15: 45
                    +1
                    Enough already - WOULD BE
                    As the saying goes: If the grandmother had x ... then she would be called the grandfather !!!
                    1. Dry_T-50
                      Dry_T-50 24 September 2014 20: 49
                      +1
                      Actually, I do not really like liberals, so I enjoyed this event
                      If the grandmother had x ... then she would be called the grandfather !!!

                      If grandmother had X, then she would be Conchita wink
                  2. perm23
                    perm23 24 September 2014 18: 22
                    +1
                    Nenado now I don’t know for myself what it was to say by letters of letters. There was a different time. And now each of us has our own way to see our world .. For the rich, one. For the poor, another. So do not. You were not there and I wasn’t. You can’t talk about the truth if you don’t know it yourself. As in Ukraine now. The ukrofashists have one truth from the militia. And who is to blame for the death of people. So do not. And where does the assignment of the distinguished division to the name of Dzerzhinsky. They deserve it. And Dzerzhinsky did a lot of good.
                  3. Nicanor
                    Nicanor 24 September 2014 21: 26
                    0
                    I agree, not fairy tales, you would definitely rumble to the camp!
                  4. Zlata
                    Zlata 26 September 2014 03: 21
                    0
                    Quote: vassa
                    THIS IS NOT TALES !!!!!!!!!
                    AH, you would go there !!!


                    If he got there, then he would sing differently now. And I don’t give a damn about someone else’s pain.
            3. Reasonable, 2,3
              Reasonable, 2,3 22 September 2014 21: 00
              +8
              Opposition of Russia. Does not roll. On the count.
            4. Blondy
              Blondy 23 September 2014 00: 48
              +16
              The term, of course, is. But, there is no corresponding liberal opposition. So ...- a stinky swamp.
              1. bekjan
                bekjan 23 September 2014 14: 40
                +5
                traitors in the swamp area!
              2. prio124
                prio124 24 September 2014 01: 59
                0
                Not even a swamp, but the sea. Dead.
          2. ilyaros
            ilyaros 23 September 2014 11: 31
            +3
            So Felix Edmundovich, because of whose name the dispute is, it was during the tsar's time that he was a representative of the "radical forces", "rocking the boat in a war", for a little bit not a "bomber"
            1. wax
              wax 23 September 2014 22: 15
              +1
              To a young man who is pondering life, deciding to make life with whom, I say, without hesitation, do it with comrade Dzerzhinsky.
              I love Mayakovsky.
        2. ispaniard
          ispaniard 22 September 2014 17: 08
          +54
          Quote: Civil
          And do not distort, there is no opposition, there are only TRAITORS. Or are you of a different opinion?

          There is no need to exaggerate, in any normal state there are people who see mistakes in the management system and can / must voice this position. At the moment (to our great regret), almost all the opposition to Russia got their jo ... th on the train with the name- "We support Nazi Ukraine." Only a few did not begin to stick to this rotten BUT ROCKED brand ...
          1. Civil
            Civil 22 September 2014 17: 12
            +1
            Quote: ispaniard
            Quote: Civil
            And do not distort, there is no opposition, there are only TRAITORS. Or are you of a different opinion?

            There is no need to exaggerate, in any normal state there are people who see mistakes in the management system and can / must voice this position. At the moment (to our great regret), almost all the opposition to Russia got their jo ... th on the train with the name- "We support Nazi Ukraine." Only a few did not begin to stick to this rotten BUT ROCKED brand ...

            In the face of danger, when the West is actually going to war, instead of rallying around the authorities, do you see "mistakes in management"? Doesn't the word Kolyma mean anything to you? How can the leaders who were able to return the Crimea, criticize out of the blue!
            1. kikume
              kikume 22 September 2014 17: 51
              +12
              The power we have is not only Putin, there is someone to criticize
              1. Civil
                Civil 22 September 2014 20: 10
                -7
                Quote: kikume
                The power we have is not only Putin, there is someone to criticize

                What do you dislike about the government? You are also a liberal in this case!
                1. DRA-88
                  DRA-88 23 September 2014 00: 30
                  +5
                  Quote: Civil
                  What do you dislike about the government? You are also a liberal in this case!


                  its anti-people policy!
                  1. perm23
                    perm23 24 September 2014 18: 28
                    +1
                    Wow . And whose policy is then popular. Gaidar. Nemtsrva. Burbulis Yeltsin. Pusi Wright - whose CPSU was bad. And do not speak for all the people. Much is happening locally. And power is not only the Kremlin. Think
                2. PSih2097
                  PSih2097 23 September 2014 01: 26
                  +7
                  Quote: Civil
                  Quote: kikume
                  The power we have is not only Putin, there is someone to criticize

                  What do you dislike about the government? You are also a liberal in this case!

                  liberal? here in the government a liberal on a liberal, especially a prime minister with his iPhone ...
                  1. prio124
                    prio124 24 September 2014 02: 15
                    +1
                    You're wrong, he's just "in place". Brains.
                3. lukewarm
                  lukewarm 23 September 2014 13: 47
                  0
                  The government is a liberal fundamentalist with few exceptions ..
                4. prio124
                  prio124 24 September 2014 02: 14
                  0
                  I like it very much, and not only the government, but also, for the time being, citizens who manage state corporations, nanotechnology, energy resources and other "goodies"
            2. Alexander I
              Alexander I 22 September 2014 17: 53
              +18
              No, Crimea first held a referendum, and then only on joining Russia. This is the will of the people. And Putin’s firm decision. But this bourgeois clan, which is robbing and enslaving the proletariat, must be acquainted with Kolyma and Magadan for a long time. They have been waiting there for a long time.
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 22 September 2014 17: 59
                +1
                Quote: Alexander I
                They have been waiting there for a long time.


                And who is waiting for that?
                1. tasey
                  tasey 22 September 2014 18: 17
                  +4
                  don’t worry ... not all bears live lean meat.
                2. DRA-88
                  DRA-88 23 September 2014 00: 29
                  +6
                  Quote: RUSS
                  And who is waiting for that?


                  His Majesty the People !!!
                  and his judgment will be righteous!
                3. PSih2097
                  PSih2097 23 September 2014 01: 22
                  +2
                  Quote: RUSS
                  And who is waiting for that?

                  tourists (bears) are waiting for "tourist breakfast" (liberals) in the taiga ...
                4. An60
                  An60 23 September 2014 16: 38
                  +3
                  How Who? Chukotka-Alaska Highway.
                5. prio124
                  prio124 24 September 2014 02: 17
                  0
                  I think not who, but what? Interesting and long work in the name of enrichment. And also a lot of love. To the motherland.
              2. Igor Polovodov
                Igor Polovodov 22 September 2014 21: 09
                +5
                there are many abandoned villages, so let them raise them ...
                and by the way they’re unlikely to be there ...
            3. Alexander S.
              Alexander S. 22 September 2014 19: 17
              +16
              I see mistakes in management ... I often criticize Putin ... I write here in the comments about this ... and now what am I ... a traitor? Traitor, because I have my opinion ... and I express it? For example, in life I will not have any business with United Russia (Putin’s brainchild) ... to shoot me? and I’m not going to attack with the words-for Putin. And I’ll go with the words - for the Motherland.
              1. olegkrava
                olegkrava 22 September 2014 19: 58
                +1
                You are being ignored.
              2. Civil
                Civil 22 September 2014 20: 11
                0
                Quote: Alexander S.
                I see mistakes in management ... I often criticize Putin ... I write here in the comments about this ... and now what am I ... a traitor? Traitor, because I have my opinion ... and I express it? For example, in life I will not have any business with United Russia (Putin’s brainchild) ... to shoot me? and I’m not going to attack with the words-for Putin. And I’ll go with the words - for the Motherland.

                EXACTLY SO, And not otherwise, time dictates!
              3. Eaglealex
                Eaglealex 22 September 2014 20: 16
                +4
                Everyone imagines himself a strategist, seeing the battle from the side. There have always been more critics than writers, why would it? request
              4. larand
                larand 23 September 2014 09: 03
                +1
                Quote: Alexander S.
                I see mistakes in management ... I often criticize Putin ... I write here in the comments about this ... and now what am I ... a traitor? Traitor, because I have my opinion ... and I express it? For example, in life I will not have any business with United Russia (Putin’s brainchild) ... to shoot me? and I’m not going to attack with the words-for Putin. And I’ll go with the words - for the Motherland.

                Specify in attack on whom?
                1. Alexander S.
                  Alexander S. 23 September 2014 13: 24
                  +1
                  Do you think that if I am not for Putin ... then I am against Russia? and for the liberals automatically? By the way ... my grandmother always votes for the Communist Party ... and hates United Russia ... and does not vote for Putin ... but about her, a veteran of the Great Patriotic War, you can’t say that she’s a traitor .. or someone else .. and now she must be considered a traitor in our difficult time? if you are not with us, then against us is the saddest thing you can think of. and yes ... smart leaders ... there are always advisers with different views .. This is all about your question (if I understood its context correctly).
                  although in my commentary, and so everything is clear to many .. in Ukraine they go on the attack on the golden eagle, etc. ... we hope, in the old way
                  1. fitoflora
                    fitoflora 23 September 2014 18: 14
                    0
                    Why did you drag your grandmother here, there are no other arguments? Really having chosen Kasyanov and Nemtsov, the people will live happily. We have already elected them, and then we gave them in the ass.
                    1. Alexander S.
                      Alexander S. 23 September 2014 22: 17
                      0
                      arguments of what? why I do not deify and do not pray on Putin .. like some?
                      one more with the principle - who is not with us, is against us.
                      1. hohryakov066
                        hohryakov066 24 September 2014 12: 26
                        0
                        Dear Alexander! I, too, do not deify the GDP, but I voted for it. just, at that moment, did not see him a worthy opponent. By the way, in my eyes, he fully justified expectations (mine) today. I'm not a fan of the EP, but the communists are practically powerless, and the SR are just populists. I am generally silent about the Liberal Democratic Party. Any "Apples" cause only a feeling of disgust. Adherents of other politicians are not subject to any kind of sanctions. Or am I missing something? If you want a political struggle - fight, but within the framework of the rules. In general, I personally believe that only a monarchy will work well in our country. Whatever they call her. Again, this does not make me want to kill those who think otherwise.
                      2. Alexander S.
                        Alexander S. 24 September 2014 13: 22
                        0
                        Well, each has its own evaluation criteria ... how many opinions .. so many criteria. The first two terms, he successfully led the country out of the crisis of the 90s .... and in the third country so far in stagnation ... there are no high-quality transformations to go up ... Well, okay ... this is the opinion ... or some will want to go to Kolyma send me))
                        and about the monarchy ... it is already unreal ... not without reason the Communists cleaned everything up to the root .. tried ... so that they ..
                        In general, I just didn’t want because of current events there were calls for a complete ban on other opinions (just like Ukraine .. hence there are suspicions of some individuals) .. which means a constitutional review and something else ... yes ... let ordinary people send kolyma ... and equate to liberals and oligarchs.
                        Only in the clash of different opinions truth is born.
                      3. perm23
                        perm23 24 September 2014 18: 43
                        +1
                        Nenad to pray. But don't blame him for everything. Don't. There is enough shit in Russia. Just a little Putin. Let's start with the local authorities with private traders. I’m 100% sure that you also gave bribes and took advantage of the blat. So what is Putin to blame for. . See in the root, that is, in yourself.
              5. prio124
                prio124 24 September 2014 02: 19
                0
                Yes, thanks Alexander. I see I'm not alone.
              6. perm23
                perm23 24 September 2014 18: 41
                +1
                Well, why are we all like that. Why is the king always to blame for everything? And we are just people. Everyone we were not like. All. Starting from the princes and ending with the current. Only we ourselves are good. Maybe start with myself. And then I am stealing from us - that’s right. But someone else is bad. An official a thief is bad, and if you take his place. That you will refuse cars of privileges .and you will not steal. We all cry badly because we don’t scream others, but what a pity. Putin is to blame. and you yourself are crystal. You yourself could. Responsible for the country. Like any general who sends people to attack. What a responsibility on it. And we are Putin and that’s it. There were Nikolai and Stalin and Khrushchev and Brezhnev and all. Wrong it
                1. Alexander S.
                  Alexander S. 25 September 2014 22: 16
                  0
                  The fact that he undertook to raise the country is an honor and praise to him ... but, as you said, it obliges you to a lot .. responsibility ... hard work ... and no one at such a post has the right to make a mistake (not the warehouse manager ) ... and since it’s hard for him ... now he needs to be cherished and cherished? anyone will relax. and criticism is absolutely necessary for it ... otherwise you have to fly to the moon to live. for there are explicit or hidden advice in any criticism. what's wrong with the tips? or something ... Putin is smart ... and all the other fools ... so you don’t have to criticize him, advise him and it’s better to go to the taiga and score for the country .. for which you work .. and who pay taxes. in my comments I blame everyone in the country .. we are all to blame. and our head should, like a real leader, lead us into a bright and fair future ... but so far this is not ... so far we don’t even have a plan .. how to get off the oil needle. and in general ... we all criticize someone else ... subordinates ... bosses ... neighbors ... children, in the end ... from which Putin is inviolable?
                  and by the way, I have never had any business with bribes and blat) quest I have in my life ... live honestly) the level of difficulty is high .. but for now it will work))
            4. Tourist
              Tourist 22 September 2014 20: 30
              +10
              Quote: Civil
              Quote: ispaniard
              Quote: Civil
              And do not distort, there is no opposition, there are only TRAITORS. Or are you of a different opinion?

              There is no need to exaggerate, in any normal state there are people who see mistakes in the management system and can / must voice this position. At the moment (to our great regret), almost all the opposition to Russia got their jo ... th on the train with the name- "We support Nazi Ukraine." Only a few did not begin to stick to this rotten BUT ROCKED brand ...

              In the face of danger, when the West is actually going to war, instead of rallying around the authorities, do you see "mistakes in management"? Doesn't the word Kolyma mean anything to you? How can the leaders who were able to return the Crimea, criticize out of the blue!

              Just do not need loud phrases and blind faith in the infallibility of the leader.
              In the 41st, Zhukov and Budyonny suggested that Stalin leave Kiev, i.e. stood in opposition. Stalin removed them from their posts. How did it end to remind?
              There is simply a constructive opposition that, through its actions, helps the authorities to correct mistakes, and ideally, to completely avoid them. And there is a destructive person represented by those rejected from the feeder or sold for grants.
              1. Watson J.
                Watson J. 22 September 2014 22: 55
                +4
                If I am not mistaken, the matter ended with the fact that part of the Army Group "North" had to be transferred to the Kiev direction, thus the Germans, who approached Leningrad in September, had to stop. Without the Kiev defense, most likely Leningrad would not have resisted.
                1. bekjan
                  bekjan 23 September 2014 14: 44
                  0
                  and from Leninrad reserve tanks were sent to defend the capital of the entire UNION.
                2. Tourist
                  Tourist 23 September 2014 22: 58
                  0
                  Quote: Watson J.
                  If I am not mistaken, the matter ended with the fact that part of the Army Group "North" had to be transferred to the Kiev direction, thus the Germans, who approached Leningrad in September, had to stop. Without the Kiev defense, most likely Leningrad would not have resisted.
                  Only not "North", but "Center" -TG under the command of Guderian. And the result was the largest "cauldron" in the history of wars (the Germans declared about 660 thousand prisoners), the loss of Ukraine, almost the entire Crimea (except for Sevastopol), not to mention the huge losses in equipment and weapons.
                  1. prio124
                    prio124 24 September 2014 02: 26
                    +1
                    Yes, the tragedy was terrible, nothing more than miscalculations, headaches and hatreds can not be explained. On September 23.09rd, he walked about the Vatutin channel on the 5th channel of Kh.F.
              2. vova1973
                vova1973 23 September 2014 04: 58
                +1
                It all ended in Berlin. Hitler had Manstein an operational genius, but in the operational interests of preserving the army, he reached Berlin. The Japanese in the Pacific in 1944 realized that the fleet would die anyway either in bases or in battle. They went out and drowned the fleet in battle. It seems like it makes no sense, extra sacrifices, but for their descendants there is enormous moral support - there is someone to look up to - to know that your ancestors did not give up.
              3. prio124
                prio124 24 September 2014 02: 23
                0
                As far as I remember, Zhukov wrote this in his memoirs at Nikita, I'm afraid it's not all that simple ...
              4. perm23
                perm23 25 September 2014 06: 43
                0
                Because the other commanders said that Kmev will stand. And again, Stalin is to blame. What, that he listened to the opinion of everyone. Why is Stalin again to blame. Tsar, Putin, Brezhnev. Why. They all had close-minded advisers. That's where they made the decisions. Responsibility for the decision is yes. But they, too, are ordinary people and can make mistakes and listen to advice. Why we do not blame those who gave these tips. Because there were tips and did not help Ossetia. And do not help New Russia. And now a bunch of advisers everywhere that we do not need to get into the affairs of Ukraine. Yes, if we would immediately after the Crimea the duty of Ukraine would not be all that was there, there would not be so many victims.
            5. aliatum
              aliatum 22 September 2014 22: 11
              +1
              flies and cutlets in one stuffing.
            6. Tanysh
              Tanysh 23 September 2014 10: 13
              +2
              Respected! The existing "here and now" principle of functioning of our state apparatus does not eradicate corruption, but reproduces it. The situation is steadily getting worse ...
              In Iraq, a powerful army was defeated thanks to the passivity of the Iraqi generals generously paid for by the Yankees.
              Is the analogy clear? ..
              1. fitoflora
                fitoflora 23 September 2014 18: 16
                0
                And the Iraqis were all for America? Well, now they get everything in full.
            7. prio124
              prio124 24 September 2014 02: 10
              0
              Of course, you need to give a second chance to Nemtsov, the best governor of the 90s?
          2. Alf
            Alf 22 September 2014 17: 30
            +20
            Quote: ispaniard
            in any normal state, there are people who see errors in the management system, and can / must voice this position.

            The normal opposition not only sees, but also suggests ways to correct them. And without calling for the destruction of the state, as the current liberos calls for this.
            1. Alexander I
              Alexander I 22 September 2014 17: 56
              +7
              Liberals This is a cancerous tumor in the manual it needs to be removed.
              1. Ezhaak
                Ezhaak 22 September 2014 20: 20
                +3
                Quote: Alexander I
                Liberals This is a cancerous tumor in the manual it needs to be removed.

                I beg your pardon, but what about the liberals who have not grown to a specific leadership, but support them? These are those who came to the Swamp to make noise. And they are the very army of those same liberals. On occasion, the liberal leaders will remain on the sidelines, and these will recall the proverb: Panas are fighting, at lackeys forelocks are cracking.
            2. Civil
              Civil 22 September 2014 20: 12
              0
              Quote: Alf
              Quote: ispaniard
              in any normal state, there are people who see errors in the management system, and can / must voice this position.

              The normal opposition not only sees, but also suggests ways to correct them. And without calling for the destruction of the state, as the current liberos calls for this.

              Something I do not remember the opposition of the CPSU, except for the crazy.
          3. Bayonet
            Bayonet 22 September 2014 19: 39
            -3
            Quote: ispaniard
            "We support Nazi Ukraine." Only a few did not begin to stick to this rotten BUT ROCKED brand ...

            Do not wishful thinking! Why lie ???
          4. prio124
            prio124 24 September 2014 02: 08
            0
            I absolutely agree with you. No constructive ideas are visible, for often the authorities choke on thoughtlessly by inertia or stupidity, or mercantile interests ...
          5. perm23
            perm23 24 September 2014 18: 25
            0
            Voice Yes, you can criticize. But not just offering your own and most importantly, be responsible for your proposals. And not like Yeltsin or Nemtsov and others, one was ready to lie under the train. And what. No one is responsible for what he created.
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. Interface
          Interface 22 September 2014 17: 37
          +7
          There are a large number of people in Russia who oppose the corporate-oligarchic system of the post-Soviet "Russia", while they are sparkling patriots who will give odds both to any near-Kremlin sectarian Nashists and the liberal get-together.

          Only they are not organized, like Air Defense and the Essence of Time or PARNAS, the opposite of them.



          These are ordinary people.
          Are you those who, against the oligarchy, are also traitors you want to write?
        5. Alexander I
          Alexander I 22 September 2014 17: 40
          0
          I totally agree. There is no position. Only traitors.
          1. RUSS
            RUSS 22 September 2014 17: 48
            +3
            Quote: Alexander I
            I totally agree. There is no position. Only traitors.


            Communist Party position themselves as opposition are they traitors?
            1. Interface
              Interface 22 September 2014 18: 04
              +4
              are they traitors


              Zyuganov: "Every third member of the Communist Party of the Russian Federation is a believer today."


              If communist ideas-- then yes, traitors.
              This is where our business is developing, but "we don't mind anymore."
              Sure sure. "Communists".

              Dzerzhinsky would have shot himself if he knew what the Party would be "converted" into.
              1. cyberhanter
                cyberhanter 23 September 2014 01: 01
                +4
                sorry, but communism denies religion or what? I apparently missed something in this life
                1. vassa
                  vassa 24 September 2014 08: 33
                  -2
                  Yes, in my opinion, you missed everything ... No, it was not the Communists who replaced Jesus Christ and the Bible with their Lenin blank. No, they didn’t blow up churches all over the country and destroy priests. No, they didn’t forbid the children to baptize. The gulag could have just rattled a believer ...
                  And now the crocodile Gene is standing in the church with a candle.
                  Laugh!
                  1. cyberhanter
                    cyberhanter 24 September 2014 15: 06
                    0
                    Quote: vassa
                    No, it’s not the Communists who replaced Jesus Christ with their Lenin blank

                    I have not heard a single prayer to Lenin the Savior
                    Quote: vassa
                    and the bible

                    I have not heard about the new bible from the Communists. from the Nazis by the way was
                    Quote: vassa
                    uh, it wasn't they who blew temples all over the country and destroyed priests

                    Only now they didn’t shoot at the priests, if the priests were exterminated, they would not be left. The priests who took up arms and opposed the authorities with weapons in their hands, become, in the eyes of the authorities, any, good or bad, criminals. and get a bullet under wartime law
                    Quote: vassa
                    in the Gulag, a believer could rattle ...

                    Yes, two times. Names in the studio. Gulag archipelago read - bullshit
            2. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 22 September 2014 18: 25
              +9
              Quote: RUSS

              Communist Party position themselves as opposition are they traitors?

              Just clowns, they say a lot, they know how to do it better than everyone, but they don’t do nichrome.
              1. DRA-88
                DRA-88 23 September 2014 00: 35
                0
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Just clowns, they say a lot, they know how to do it better than everyone, but they don’t do nichrome.


                their current leaders will discredit the Communist idea, they are more likely Mensheviks ...
                1. cyberhanter
                  cyberhanter 23 September 2014 01: 03
                  +2
                  rather opportunists (se la vie
              2. cyberhanter
                cyberhanter 23 September 2014 01: 02
                +3
                in fact, a lot of practical things are said, and at the same time, almost all the good things that the authorities do are originally the idea of ​​the Communists. national projects are the same
              3. perm23
                perm23 25 September 2014 06: 53
                0
                Yes, the Communist Party traitors. They betrayed their country to their party. At first, everyone threw their tickets, and then they revived another party .. Obama also calls himself a peacemaker and kills people, and now everyone who wants to write down the world as a killer. Everything was . And the CPSU was there, both good and bad. Everyone was there and who believed and who adapted. Well, all this is shown in the movie Eternal Call. But we must not forget the most important thing. We must not just criticize but then do something. And then, as in Vysotsky’s song. The big giraffe is more visible to him. So is ours. We blame everything on someone. You have to be fair and honest, and not betray your country. their homeland. First, defeat the enemy who attacked the homeland and then figure out how to build a life. And not to impersonate. Not in patsansky it is when someone from the side attacked your opponent and you are here pushing from the back
          2. larand
            larand 23 September 2014 09: 20
            0
            Quote: Alexander I
            I totally agree. There is no position. Only traitors.

            Well, why not? There is a variety. There are Soppers (they sit in government bodies, receive salaries from the budget and lazily criticize the authorities, for example, deputies). Further, the Noppars (not a systemic opposition - bulk, Kasyanov, etc. - really want to become Soppers to be near the state budget). Further Zhoppery (tough opposition, these are frantic and are ready with a grenade or cobblestone to throw at whom the Nopparas will say). There are Oppers, well, these just sometimes go to rallies organized by Nopperas with the money of the State Department to hang out and scream. What is remarkable, all these oppositionists have no intelligible program, therefore, apart from noise and garbage in the streets, they can’t portray anything.
        6. Luga
          Luga 22 September 2014 19: 08
          +16
          Quote: Civil

          And do not distort, there is no opposition, there are only TRAITORS. Or are you of a different opinion?


          Harsh, you are, however, a person. sad

          Do you really equate these concepts of "oppositionist" and "traitor" or is it for a catchphrase? If for a word of mouth, then you can not read further. Seriously though ... I strongly disagree.

          Opposition itself is far from uniform. There is a radical right, there is a liberal democratic (not to be confused with the LDPR smile), you can still remember. So everyone and traitors?

          Right-wing radicals are shouting "Putin, get out" because we have a relatively soft migration policy, because we are rebuilding Chechnya ("enough to feed the Caucasus") and not throwing hats on the Pshek and Chukhonts, but missiles on mattress mats. Liberators are dissatisfied with the fact that we refuse to lick the ass to these same pshek and Chukhonts, and we try to talk to mattress mats on an equal footing ... So which of them are traitors?

          And here I am, for example, dissatisfied with the migration policy, but I think that the president is building relations with Chechnya correctly. In February-March, I doubted about the accession of Crimea, but now I think that Putin acted correctly. I consider Makarevich’s political statements to be stupidity, and I listen to songs with pleasure. I am proud of my country's foreign policy, but I am ashamed of its corruption and theft. In short, I do not agree, but partially. Am I an oppositionist, a traitor or ... I don’t know, there, a half-traitor or an undepositioner? Where did you draw the line?
          1. Bayonet
            Bayonet 22 September 2014 19: 43
            +3
            Quote: Luga
            Harsh, you are, however, a person.

            Rather, oak!
            1. prio124
              prio124 24 September 2014 02: 33
              0
              No, I think it’s such a sense of humor, a hidden mockery. The irony is called. Our ironic
          2. Civil
            Civil 22 September 2014 20: 18
            -2
            Quote: Luga
            Am I an oppositionist, a traitor, or ... I don’t know, there, a half-traitor or an under-positioner? Where did you draw the line?

            There is only one facet in the upcoming paradigm of society - personal devotion. This is a development standard for countries that have chosen order and stability without concluding a social contract. Consequently, any evidence outside the general line, including in terms of personal criticism will be an attack on the existing system. And my advice to you, remember as it should. until it's not too late.
            1. Luga
              Luga 22 September 2014 21: 36
              +5
              Quote: Civil
              And my advice to you, remember how to. until it's not too late.


              And rightly so! Anyone who does not agree with the general line of the party and government to take and kill as traitors. So to ask: "You, such and such, do not agree with the party and the government in anything? Stand, blood viper, against the wall! Ah, agree? But the party has changed the line! So, all the same, become blood viper!" viper, to the wall "!

              Well, of course, you yourself will ask. And shoot at the back of the head, probably, too. According to the laws of war.
            2. cyberhanter
              cyberhanter 23 September 2014 01: 07
              +1
              you are not right. if the general line is wrong - criticism is always good. betrayal - to violate an order, even if it is erroneous. criticizing when possible is part of the discussion, and only truth is born in them.
            3. prio124
              prio124 24 September 2014 02: 36
              0
              Are you saying that the "states" are different? Pay attention to Psaki. Big-witted girl?
        7. Flexsus
          Flexsus 23 September 2014 02: 11
          0
          Burn, comrade?
        8. Ober.K
          Ober.K 23 September 2014 12: 09
          +2
          Civilian, what if your close relative thinks differently? Who, in your opinion, is he? Dissenter or Traitor? Who can forbid him to perceive the world with his own eyes and with his brains? Read "Quiet Flows the Don" and you will probably understand what a tragedy Russia has been driven by aspirations to drive everything into the framework of one ideology. They also decided to ban Donbass from looking at the world with their own eyes, thinking with their own brains, expressing thoughts in their own language ... and what came of it !? Big trouble !!!
        9. perm23
          perm23 23 September 2014 19: 02
          0
          That’s exactly the oppposia - this is one thing. And these traitors
        10. prio124
          prio124 24 September 2014 01: 51
          0
          Distort, um ... better shutter in the right place
      2. kostik1301
        kostik1301 22 September 2014 16: 56
        +25
        and now the time has come when the Paskudas shook with fear, Felix to his former place ....................
        1. Bayonet
          Bayonet 22 September 2014 21: 37
          0
          Quote: kostik1301
          and now the time has come when the Paskudas shook with fear

          And I think it's my glass rattling ....
      3. Number 17
        Number 17 22 September 2014 17: 03
        +26
        Kamrad wanted to offer the same thing, but you got ahead of me. I believe that the monument should be returned. This will be true in relation to Dzerzhinsky.
        1. fktrcfylhn61
          fktrcfylhn61 22 September 2014 17: 35
          +4
          This is true of the people! Which, in principle, still have to plow! But if everything was at the advice and in the shops, and the prices were more than affordable. Then after this thieves, or even a gangster robbery of his own people, these, from the dirt to riches that are! And all that happened later, only again scoured your predatory essence! And where you almost brought all the people, almost in soda and gomorrah! Like pederastic geyropa and no less perverted gamerika !!! You are an insignificant percentage of the population of Russia, which should not even be paid attention to, since it is stinking from you with your perversions and false speeches !!!
          1. Bayonet
            Bayonet 22 September 2014 19: 46
            -1
            Quote: fktrcfylhn61
            ! But if everything was at the tips and in the stores, and the prices were more than affordable

            How old are you ... eccentric? Do not hang noodles for us who lived at that time !!!!!!
            1. cyberhanter
              cyberhanter 23 September 2014 01: 10
              +7
              judging by the flag at least 23, apparently to him) he goes too far, about everything is available, but the Soviet system as a whole really looks fairer, against the background of announcements with a fundraiser of "4 million euros for an operation in Germany" for another child. where is the social guarantee? no. even if it was impossible to buy a car easily, but they gave an apartment, but there were social guarantees!
              1. DRA-88
                DRA-88 23 September 2014 01: 17
                +3
                Quote: cyberhanter
                but the Soviet system as a whole really looks fairer against the background of announcements with a fundraiser of "4 million euros for an operation in Germany" for another child. where is the social guarantee?


                Only after living 23 years after the betrayal of the USSR do you understand what We lost .....
                But ...., Everything is in Our hands !!!!
            2. vova1973
              vova1973 23 September 2014 05: 06
              +4
              And what was not available to you? The most important thing (education, medicine, housing) was available so that it was perceived as something obvious and where it came from was not even thought of.
            3. vova1973
              vova1973 23 September 2014 05: 08
              +5
              Didn’t you ate smoked sausage or black caviar at that time? What do you eat her big spoon now?
            4. fktrcfylhn61
              fktrcfylhn61 23 September 2014 10: 27
              +1
              I am already in my fifth decade. And what was happening at that time I know for sure not by hearsay. At that time, by the way, education was free! At least a decade, at least secondary, at least higher. And there was almost no corruption. Exceptional cases do not count, compared with the current champions of democracy! And at the enterprises, even housing was built for workers, and moreover they were handed out for free! And young specialists were given housing, even without years of service, also for free! And a liter of milk cost 22 kopecks, a loaf of bread on average 16 kopecks, meat on average 3 rubles fifty kopecks! Half a liter of the capital is 4 rubles with a trifle, and a liter of AI93 gasoline is 13 kopecks. And again, if you are a specialist, then with a monthly salary of 220 rubles, you could live comfortably. But the question is what to want from life? Or on the other hand, how much do you need for life? This is the dilemma. Therefore, the Dzerzhinsky division was correctly revived! They should have acted! After all, the state, the same organism, if it is healthy, then life in it will be normal.
      4. RUSS
        RUSS 22 September 2014 17: 05
        -2
        Quote: ispaniard
        P.S. I wonder when the monument to "Iron Felix" will be returned to the Lubyanka, what will happen to the opposition then?)))


        I think they will stop only at renaming (returning) the name of the division, for the sake of pleasing to everyone, since the monument on Lubyanka will cause unnecessary disputes and protests from the public, and now it is too early to talk about the monument and about the burial of Lenin’s body.
        1. kotyara1963
          kotyara1963 22 September 2014 17: 56
          +6
          And why? In addition to the Cheka, Dzerzhinsky, by the way, fought with homelessness! Or feed and educate orphans also include repression? In the end, behind Felix’s back is the institution he founded, which is responsible for Russia's security!
        2. kotyara1963
          kotyara1963 22 September 2014 17: 56
          +4
          And why? In addition to the Cheka, Dzerzhinsky, by the way, fought with homelessness! Or feed and educate orphans also include repression? In the end, behind Felix’s back is the institution he founded, which is responsible for Russia's security!
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. Interface
        Interface 22 September 2014 17: 19
        +13
        My applause to the author of this wonderful idea.

        On Echo MSC today is an epic fart break. laughing


        When will the monument be returned to Lubyanka?
        We look forward to it, comrades.

        Only little will change from this. As they pop, at every opportunity, from the federal channels about "millions of repressed", and they pop.

        And GDP echoes them, by the way.

        Once, in general, the Katyn execution was called Stalin's "personal revenge".
        Solzhenitsyn and the White Guards at the grave wore flowers in 2008.

        To see and hear all this anti-Soviet slanderous act performed by a former state security officer is personally opposite to me.
        1. Bayonet
          Bayonet 22 September 2014 19: 51
          -2
          Everything is simple ...
        2. Bayonet
          Bayonet 22 September 2014 21: 34
          -2
          Quote: Interface
          To see and hear all this anti-Soviet slanderous act performed by a former state security officer is personally opposite to me.

          Do not make me laugh! What "anti-Soviet" ??? Comrade, wake up! No advice for a long time !!!
          1. Interface
            Interface 22 September 2014 23: 59
            +6
            Do not make me laugh! What "anti-Soviet" ???


            I answer: you have a very bad sense of humor.

            Comrade wake up! No advice for a long time !!!


            There is such a thing, how can I tell you ... "Fidelity to principles" is called.

            Putin is neither betrayed by the traditions of the Cheka-KGB, nor even communist morality; he is in the Soviet system at every opportunity. Moreover, in the most favorable economic climate, with the economy growing at an average of 6-8% at the beginning of the 00, nothing was done in the field of import substitution. On the contrary, imports only increased 9 times.

            It turns out that the "Soviet" planned economy is still better than the Chubais bazaar?
            2 of the question arises:
            1. why did they crash?
            2. Why don't you restore at least some features of the planned economy? Well, okay, if the "free market" is so dear to you, then you can keep the stolen billions for yourself. Just restore at least something, then dump it into Baden-Baden and Courchevel.

            No, Putin is certainly a superhero compared to Yeltsin. Well, the clown was not standing next to Vladimir Vladimirovich. Heaven and earth.

            Only it’s time to do something already.
          2. prio124
            prio124 24 September 2014 02: 55
            +1
            People stayed. The country is the receiver, partly remained. Things remained. Pride remained. Technologies developed in that Country remained. A lot of things left. Someone even had a conscience
        3. prio124
          prio124 24 September 2014 02: 52
          0
          I was still frightened by "De Stalinization". For so many years they have been trampled on, but no, there are no other questions in the country, so that the dead leader could be kicked once more. He talks about weakness and the fulfillment of certain orders according to certain programs. We acquired Crimea, but lost Ukraine. It was necessary to invest in education and funds "friendship" and not the pocket of Yanuca. Damn. Well, where are the personnel who decide EVERYTHING? Where is the team of unmercenaries ready to work for the idea, ideals and country?
      7. Alf
        Alf 22 September 2014 17: 25
        +2
        Question
        Quote: ispaniard
        I wonder when the monument to "Iron Felix" will be returned to the Lubyanka, what will happen to the opposition then?)))

        Response
        Disagree with our initiatives within 3 days to appear at the appropriate address with things.
      8. Sid.74
        Sid.74 22 September 2014 17: 26
        +11
        Quote: ispaniard
        We do not call the Opposition - "Slaves of Hamon" ...

        Why, normal and to the point! Slaves of Hamon sounds! yes
        The monument to Dzerzhinsky must be returned. And then not enough belolentochny contraceptives hanged themselves and jumped off the roofs in anticipation of the cold 37.

        So far, only a copy! But nothing, still to come! winked
        Activists and deputies of the Communist Party erected a copy of the monument to Felix Dzerzhinsky in the center of Moscow on Lubyanka Square. The action was timed to the 137 anniversary of the founder of the Cheka.

        1. enot73
          enot73 22 September 2014 17: 41
          +13
          Quote: Sid.74
          Activists and deputies of the Communist Party erected a copy of the monument to Felix Dzerzhinsky in the center of Moscow on Lubyanka Square. The action was timed to the 137 anniversary of the founder of the Cheka.
          It’s time to return the real monument to its place. Even if someone doesn’t like it.
        2. Bayonet
          Bayonet 22 September 2014 19: 54
          -8
          Quote: Sid.74
          ! But nothing, still to come!

          Wanted folk blood? Stuck up dust swallow! !!!
          1. Sid.74
            Sid.74 22 September 2014 20: 21
            +3
            Quote: Bayonet
            Wanted folk blood? Stuck up dust swallow! !!!

            What kind of folk blood, what are you writing about? Apart from the installation on the monument’s square, nothing will happen. This is absolutely unreasonable fear of the liberals. Have they put another oligarch under arrest and what’s wrong with that? And the liberal is bad, they’re afraid they’ll take away the loot . hi
            1. Bayonet
              Bayonet 22 September 2014 20: 39
              -6
              Quote: Sid.74

              What kind of folk blood, what are you writing about? Besides setting up a monument on the square, nothing will happen. This is an absolutely unfounded fear of liberals

              You have completely forgotten the Russian language! Now there are a lot of words of parasites - "like", "type", "shorter", and now "liberal" - "liberal". Don't you know any other words? When will you think with your head, and not extract idiotic cliches from your ass ????????
          2. 11111mail.ru
            11111mail.ru 23 September 2014 05: 43
            +1
            Quote: Bayonet
            Stuck up dust swallow!

            An almost accurate quote from a collection of GDP pearls. That ears seemed ...
          3. prio124
            prio124 24 September 2014 03: 00
            0
            Yes, since the 90s, more blood has been drunk than in all the years of Stalinism. Oh, I'm sorry, this is a natural decline in population. Geyropa is also dying out.
          4. I am
            I am 25 September 2014 13: 21
            0
            F.E.Dzerzhinsky - eliminated indifference in the post-revolutionary country. For this alone, he needs to erect monuments in each city. The power of a bald-bear and the struggle of a drunken rebirth is the concept of homelessness.
        3. Bayonet
          Bayonet 23 September 2014 08: 48
          0
          Quote: Sid.74
          Activists and deputies of the Communist Party erected a copy of the monument to Felix Dzerzhinsky in the center of Moscow on Lubyanka Square.

          What child would not play ....
      9. zart_arn
        zart_arn 22 September 2014 18: 40
        -8
        Friends, remember how many RUSSIAN people died through his fault and not only traitors and reptiles.
        1. cyberhanter
          cyberhanter 23 September 2014 01: 15
          +2
          the innocent in the studio. I’m sure there were such truths, but I doubt that there were more errors under his leadership than for example under the current FSB, for example
        2. Zlata
          Zlata 23 September 2014 16: 12
          -2
          Quote: zart_arn
          Friends, remember how many RUSSIAN people died through his fault and not only traitors and reptiles.


          Judging by the minuses addressed to you, friends are not used to thinking at all. The main thing for them with bulging eyes and shouts of "Uraaaa !!! Rrsshot !!! Traitors to the wall!" fly forward, sweeping away everything in its path. This is exactly what the real Sharikovs do.
          1. zart_arn
            zart_arn 23 September 2014 19: 25
            -3
            Dear Zlata, they are not the Sharikovs, they are worse. The vast majority of the local forum users have plenty of intelligence, it's just that the game is like this - for pluses and minuses. The trouble is that some are ready for such pluses that you wonder how they can respect themselves after that. And the pluses and minuses are all nonsense.
        3. I am
          I am 25 September 2014 13: 24
          -2
          Friends, remember how many good RUSSIAN people were saved through his fault, but, unfortunately, he also saved a certain number of traitors and reptiles, who are now pouring mud on him. But history will put everything in its place and each will be rewarded according to his affairs .....
      10. Bayonet
        Bayonet 22 September 2014 19: 37
        -4
        Quote: ispaniard
        We do not call the Opposition - "Slaves of Hamon" ...

        Respected! What does the jamon have to do with it ??? Come up with Friends of Liver Sausage! It seems like an adult, but such a fence ...
        1. prio124
          prio124 24 September 2014 03: 04
          0
          Well, I agree here with you on all 100
      11. macarque
        macarque 22 September 2014 21: 54
        0
        Get offended. as always. for the tongue does not work with a shovel, but sphincters for iron.
      12. 1500014781401
        1500014781401 23 September 2014 00: 00
        +9
        15 km from the village of Ivenets in the Minsk region is the estate of Dzerzhinovo (Ozemblovo farm), the birthplace of F. Dzerzhinsky. The original estate was burned by the Nazis in 1943. In 2004 it was restored. Now in the homeland of Dz. there is a memorial complex.
        By tradition, graduates of the Academy of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Belarus, handed here, take the oath. ranks and personal weapons to new KGB officers.
        1. Grzegoš
          Grzegoš 23 September 2014 10: 08
          +5
          Well done, Belarusians, and more!
      13. Combitor
        Combitor 23 September 2014 05: 28
        +3
        Quote: ispaniard
        when the monument to "Iron Felix" will be returned to the Lubyanka, what will happen to the opposition then?

        For historical justice, it is high time to return the monument to Dzerzhinsky "to his homeland." And the opposition deeply does not care. If he will twitch, we will ask the Iron Felix division to take up its immediate official duties - to destroy the counter-revolution, in our case, the liberal opposition. Although, what the hell are they liberals. They perverted and turned upside down the whole idea and essence of liberalism. With their submission, liberalism was put on the same shelf with homosexuality and other perversions. They are liberals, not liberals.
        PS When the monument is returned to its place, "Grazhdansky" will by that time lose all its "likes", become a private and run away to "Echo of Moscow".
      14. Syrdon
        Syrdon 23 September 2014 11: 15
        +4
        it will be the next step, somewhere in a year probably
      15. Ugrumiy
        Ugrumiy 23 September 2014 16: 00
        0
        I wonder what would have happened if "Iron Felix" himself had returned to the Lubyanka? laughing
        1. An60
          An60 23 September 2014 16: 44
          +2
          Well, probably the smiley would be with a beard and a gymnast ... fellow
      16. bda
        bda 23 September 2014 16: 28
        0

        Such reports caused a storm of negativity among commentators on Echo and “Rain". We bring to your attention a few comments news from the "Echo of Moscow".

        Karu
        there is someone to shoot the people.


        Will someone crush earthworms.
      17. Vasily Pupkin
        Vasily Pupkin 23 September 2014 20: 59
        0
        Apparently they will be hung in bunches on the surrounding trees.
      18. perfect100
        perfect100 23 September 2014 22: 50
        0
        But I would return the monument, and I would not give the name to the division .... The monument is really a work of Vuchetich’s art!
      19. prio124
        prio124 24 September 2014 01: 49
        0
        Shitting in the gates will begin. A lot. The rotten essence strives outward, but is afraid.
      20. 7maestro7
        7maestro7 24 September 2014 08: 49
        0
        And to be honest, we didn’t call her (the division) in another way))) these guys periodically call us and when someone asks them who they are and where, then after the answer - from the special forces division from such a city .... blah ... blah ... etc. until they say yes from the Dzerzhinsky division !!! and, then, it was understandable, it was impossible to say right away .... and to those who called them punishers, let them wash .... Dzerzhinsky are great guys, they can learn a lot from them (which we do))) .... and a lot of their lives were given .... just for those who water their slop ...
      21. dragon4591
        dragon4591 24 September 2014 09: 50
        0
        Opposition? - Slaves of the American penis!
      22. underbas
        underbas 24 September 2014 10: 20
        0
        Let them go and drown themselves in the toilet ...
      23. underbas
        underbas 24 September 2014 10: 20
        0
        Let them go and drown themselves in the toilet ...
      24. acute
        acute 24 September 2014 16: 55
        0
        I think that they will run outside the garden ring. Normal Russians have long been waiting for this step. they are even afraid of the monument to Dzerzhinsky as a devil
      25. Lyuba1965_01
        Lyuba1965_01 24 September 2014 20: 24
        0
        Yes, just for the sake of such pleasure, I would agree to this.
        Well, there was a monument to himself, and he stood.
        Part of the Russian history, good or bad .... but after all, stories ...
        And who bothered?
    2. jjj
      jjj 22 September 2014 16: 50
      +31
      The division regains its historical name. And it is right
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 22 September 2014 17: 08
        +12
        Quote: jjj
        The division regains its historical name. And it is right


        For historical justice it is necessary to return the royal names to some military educational institutions.
        1. Interface
          Interface 22 September 2014 17: 59
          +1
          For historical justice it is necessary to return the royal names to some military educational institutions.


          "Justice" is determined by the people.

          The people of imperial squalor wished to forget 3 once: in 1905, in February 1917 and in October 1917 even more so.


          This is the Russian Federation, having revived all the abominations of Romanov’s Russia, and not one of its dignities is trying to bane Lenin and his comrades, simultaneously rehabilitating the whites.


          Here it seems that Dzerzhinsky was remembered, and everything seems to be getting better, but .... it wasn’t Putin personally proposed. That says it all.

          It’s just that veterans of the Ministry of Internal Affairs have apparently already gotten a headache (forgive me) for a fight against the Kremlin demanding that Felix be returned to Lubyanka.

          Here they were so peculiarly "cut off".
          The monument was not returned, and the division was named after him - "well, so be persuaded."

          Dzerzhin veterans feel sorry.
          1. Sid.74
            Sid.74 22 September 2014 18: 11
            +7
            Quote: Interface
            This is the Russian Federation, having revived all the abominations of Romanov’s Russia, and not one of its dignities is trying to bane Lenin and his comrades, simultaneously rehabilitating the whites.

            Well, there are no saints in power! And let's not mix everyone and everything!
            How much was Tsarist Russia? And how much was Bolshevik?
            Dzerzhinsky himself was against the Brest Peace, but the Bolsheviks were in favor!
            Dzerzhinsky was generally extremely interesting man. And perhaps his demonization occurred due to the fact that he considered any opposition unacceptable.

            He participated in the struggle against the left and united opposition, since, in his opinion, they threatened the unity of the party and the conduct of the NEP. At the same time, in 1925-1926, he expressed disagreement with the economic policy of the government, in connection with which he asked for his resignation. Disputed the opinion of the priority of the state and, in particular, the army as a basis for the development of the metal industry. He considered it necessary to radically change the management system in order to overcome the bureaucratic "paralysis of life", believing that otherwise the country "will find its dictator, the funeral of the revolution, no matter what red feathers are on his suit."
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. The comment was deleted.
              1. Sid.74
                Sid.74 22 September 2014 19: 21
                +4
                Quote: Interface
                And you are also trying to prove in such a cheating way to me that tsarist autocracy is a more stable and prosperous regime than socialism.

                Yeah ... And the number of mistakes that the Bolshevik comrades made you miss. Dispossession. Civil war following the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks. Brest peace. Novorossia, then Crimea, given to Ukraine. Destruction of churches and religion. This is what a favorable regime, socialism mother him so?
                The history of the subjunctive names, although it does not tolerate. But, if Stolypin had been alive, the revolution could not have taken place. And electrification is complete.
                To smear one with black paint and praise the other! There was already nothing good to end it with. At first the kings were bad, then the bad white, then the Bolsheviks, then the Communists, then liberals, or liberals at first? Lenin was at first a liberal democrat! why?
                And all this time, Russian people were dying and now they are dying in Donetsk, and it was the Bolsheviks who laid this bomb in the state system. And at the time of the collapse of the USSR, there were only about 17 million people in the party. All of the USSR, this is about the question of unconditional support for communism. And half of these faithful Leninists are now sending weapons to the Donbass, Farion remember, Parashenko and Turchinov. This is about the loyalty to the idea of ​​socialism.
                1. Zlata
                  Zlata 23 September 2014 16: 31
                  -2
                  Quote: Sid.74

                  Yeah ... And the number of mistakes that the Bolshevik comrades made you miss. Dispossession. Civil war following the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks. Brest peace. Novorossia, then Crimea, given to Ukraine. Destruction of churches and religion. This is what a favorable regime, socialism mother him so?
                  The history of the subjunctive names, although it does not tolerate. But, if Stolypin had been alive, the revolution could not have taken place. And electrification is complete.
                  ...........................
                  And all this time, Russian people were dying and now in Donetsk they are dying, and it was the Bolsheviks who laid this bomb in the state system ...........

                  I absolutely agree with you. Only here are not "mistakes", you said it so mildly, but CRIMES against your own country and your own people.
                2. Interface
                  Interface 23 September 2014 18: 20
                  +1
                  Brest peace


                  1. Lenin needed to wait for the parade of Kaiser grenadiers in Petrograd and Moscow?
                  2. After the quite expected surrender of Germany, Russia terminated the agreement and returned almost all the lands.
                  And you keep yelling about the "separate world" oh these "zhydobolsheviks" oh oh.

                  Civil war following the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks


                  Ohhhh, well, you did it. It turns out that it was not the White Guards with the invaders who started the Civil War, but the Bolsheviks, to whom it was useless.

                  Of the 84 of the largest cities in Russia, Soviet Power was established by force only in 15. This is a note.

                  The Bolsheviks calmly established themselves in the country without any "fratricidal wars"

                  Without supplies of uniforms, provisions, weapons from the Entente, the whites would not have lasted a month. They would be defeated by the Cheka in two counts.

                  If someone taught history, he would remember that the Red Army at the beginning of the Civil War had no aircraft, no tanks, only maxims and rifles from the royal stores.

                  Bely also had armored cars, and Marki, fighter aircraft and everything from the interventionists, who were introduced into the RSFSR and Ukraine up to 1 million: in Murmansk, the Far East, Crimea and Novorossiysk.

                  So much for the "honorable officers". Their own homeland was handed over to the enemy out of personal accounts with the Bolsheviks.


                  Disposition


                  Another specialist to enlighten me on the topic of the "crimes" of the Soviet Power showed up.

                  Catch the facts historian:

                  1. Before collectivization in 53% of the peasant farms, the land was plowed with a plow, and after - by tractors.

                  2. The power supply of agriculture has more than doubled - from about 1 to 2 with a small horsepower.

                  3. During the 10 summer period after collectivization, infant mortality in the countryside decreased by 3 times.

                  4. Russia forever (with the exception of the post-war period and perestroika) forgot about HUNGER.


                  Under the tsar, where a handful of "effective owners" fattened up grain exports from the beginning of the 1880s, the famine was repeated at intervals of 1,5-3 years.

                  During the period from 1900-1914 ~ 8 million people died of hunger, 30 million were on the verge of starvation.
                  And you don't need to tell me about the "birth rate boom".
                  In Africa, too, 10 children give birth, and in 25-30 years they die of hunger and disease.

                  After collectivization, there was NEVER famine in the USSR. And again, with the exception of perestroika and post-war devastation.

                  Have something to argue?

                  Given to Ukraine Novorossia,


                  Novorossia could have been transferred even to the Uzbek SSR, from which Nothing would have changed ANYWHERE, neither the structure of financing, nor the composition of the population, nor even the mentality and attitude towards Russians.

                  And since when did Soviet Ukraine turn into a spitting object?
                  In the USSR there was a friendship of peoples. That says it all?

                  But, if Stolypin was alive, the revolution might not have taken place.


                  Listen more to Putin, we have an "outstanding historian". All the monument to Stolypin is torn to open.

                  Stolypin’s reform led to the mass famine of 1909-12, when peasants were driven out of the community, work in which was the only source of wealth for peasants.

                  I am amazed, I seem to say certain things, but they invariably try to tell me propaganda tales about the "blessed" year 1913.
            3. Interface
              Interface 22 September 2014 18: 46
              -1
              He participated in the struggle against the left and united opposition, since, in his opinion, they threatened the unity of the party and the conduct of the NEP. At the same time, in 1925-1926, he expressed disagreement with the economic policy of the government, in connection with which he asked for his resignation. Disputed the opinion of the priority of the state and, in particular, the army as a basis for the development of the metal industry. He considered it necessary to radically change the management system in order to overcome the bureaucratic "paralysis of life", believing that otherwise the country "will find its dictator, the funeral of the revolution, no matter what red feathers are on his suit."



              1. You are telling me this why; think I don't know, but you "enlightened" me?
              I will disappoint you, I studied all this at school.


              2. What does this have to do with the October Revolution and the subject of discussion?
              pussy ... ahem ahem "brains" to measure?
              This is no longer a scientific discussion.
            4. Interface
              Interface 22 September 2014 18: 49
              -3
              How much was Tsarist Russia? And how much was Bolshevik?


              Can we also compare the Holy Roman Empire with today's Germany to prove that the monarchy is a "more stable socio-political system" than the republic?
              And what? That existed for almost 900 years, and the FRG / GDR - just years 100?



              Do you compare the times of lice and plague with the age of electricity and computers?
              Under Peter, people didn’t know what for 50 versts from their native village, but under the Bolsheviks they flew into space.

              There you have the difference.
              1. Bayonet
                Bayonet 22 September 2014 20: 02
                +4
                Quote: Interface
                Can we still compare the Holy Roman Empire with today's Germany,

                Germany has never denied or rewritten its history!
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. Bayonet
                    Bayonet 23 September 2014 06: 29
                    +2
                    Quote: Interface
                    The leafy orthodox dur-check

                    This is more suitable for you!
                  2. Past_ Crocodile
                    Past_ Crocodile 23 September 2014 14: 57
                    0
                    Under the Bolsheviks, there were two approaches: before the Second World War, they wiped their feet about the images of the heroes of the past, and could be sent to the bottom for Yesenin-Dostoevsky; However, during the war and after the approach radically changed.
                    From this we get: firstly, among the Bolsheviks there were also smart people (and maybe even honest people). Secondly, the Bolsheviks rewrote history and changed approaches.
                    1. An60
                      An60 23 September 2014 16: 50
                      0
                      At all times, history has been rewritten in Russia. And princes and kings and emperors and comrades and current.
              2. Bayun
                Bayun 22 September 2014 21: 24
                +2
                Tsarist Russia was, is and will ALWAYS be. From the fact that the King is called General Secretary or President; boyars - Politburo or "Family \ Friends"; and the nobles - the Communist Party of the Soviet Union or the "party in power", the essence of power does not change. Russians often try to cheat the devil instead of just following God.
          2. Bayonet
            Bayonet 22 September 2014 19: 57
            +6
            Quote: Interface
            The people of imperial squalor wished to forget 3 once: in 1905, in February 1917 and in October 1917 even more so.

            Do not dare to speak on behalf of the people! It was the Bolsheviks who tried to destroy the memory of the people, pride in their country - Russia! They could not eradicate the glorious history of our Motherland, thank God !!!
            1. Interface
              Interface 23 September 2014 14: 09
              -2
              According to the POF polls, if today the citizens would have a choice of whom to support - red or white - then every third would support the red, and only every tenth - white.

              http://fom.ru/Proshloe/10685
              The people, he just said his word, simply burn the point to the wretched sectarian monarchists.

              It is time.


              Second.

              It was the Bolsheviks who tried to destroy the memory of the people, pride in their country - Russia! They could not eradicate the glorious history of our Motherland, thank God !!!



              A distinctive feature of the sectarian is the inability to critical, not stereotyped thinking.
              For the wretched I will give a few facts.

              1. The USSR officially celebrated the 150th anniversary of the Patriotic War of 1812; in honor of this anniversary, F. Roubaud's panorama "The Battle of Borodino" was restored and since then it has been displayed on Kutuzovsky Prospekt.

              2. In the USSR, great films on historical subjects were shot, including Peter I, the hit of the Soviet film distribution of the 30s, Suvorov, filmed in 1940, a series of films "The youth of Peter,


              3. In the USSR, the works of Klyuchevsky, the leading Russian historian of the beginning of the century, and other pre-revolutionary historians were subjected to detailed study.
              Several times reprinted the work of V. Pikul.



              But no. An Orthodox leafy tree under the nickname "Shtyk" claims the opposite.
              Here sectarians at least say that a meteorite will not fall to the earth, at least do not say.

              They both close in their burrows, and sit around the end of the world waiting.

              Well, how to talk to a tree?
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Bayonet
                Bayonet 23 September 2014 18: 21
                +3
                Quote: Interface
                Orthodox leafy tree under the nickname "Shtyk"

                You are just a fool! I do not want our country to be judged by the statements of such freaks!
                1. Interface
                  Interface 23 September 2014 20: 53
                  -2
                  I do not want our country to be judged by the statements of such freaks!


                  Ohhh, well, I’m stuck.

                  just wretched sectarian monarchists facts burn a point.


                  You yourself have confirmed it.

                  What? Bomb fart? laughing
                  He blurted out something about Holy Russia and crap around the Communists, ran away to cry when the turnips were lowered into their own Mr. Gno.

                  Well, a typical sectarian. "I don’t believe you, mister policeman, you are generally ur-d, and I am offended at you, the end of the world is inevitable."


                  I do not want our country to be judged by the statements of such freaks!


                  Who treated you like that?

                  What are you and I talking about? laughing
            2. Zlata
              Zlata 23 September 2014 16: 57
              -1
              Quote: Bayonet
              Quote: Interface
              The people of imperial squalor wished to forget 3 once: in 1905, in February 1917 and in October 1917 even more so.

              Do not dare to speak on behalf of the people! It was the Bolsheviks who tried to destroy the memory of the people, pride in their country - Russia! They could not eradicate the glorious history of our Motherland, thank God !!!


              Bayonet, a thousand pluses to you. I wanted to write in your words - DO NOT DARE TO SPEAK ON behalf OF THE PEOPLE! The whole story of my family says that NOT AT THE KING, but just after the October Revolution - the life of ordinary people was just a monstrous nightmare.
              1. Tanechka-clever
                Tanechka-clever 24 September 2014 16: 08
                0
                Quote: Zlata
                The whole story of my family says

                DO NOT DARE TO SPEAK ON behalf OF THE PEOPLE - your family is only part of the people.

                My family is also a PEOPLE that does not share your ideals "UNDER THE KING".
                Learn history - because life under the king of ordinary people was just a monstrous nightmare. I propose to get acquainted with the lives of ordinary people in the Lena gold mines that belonged to a Jew, and this Jew himself lived in Europe. However, like today, our oligarchs. And how a Jew shot Russian ordinary people
                Do not dare to destroy the memory of the people and the glorious history of the Soviet Union - the heroism and exploits of the Soviet people.

                Dirty hands away from the people's memory - you will not be able to eradicate the memory of SOVIET PEOPLE.
                Read and learn - thank God there is the Internet ...

                Because GOD is always on the side - TRUTH ...
                1. Zlata
                  Zlata 26 September 2014 21: 01
                  0
                  I am not saying that there were no excesses under the king. There were both rich and very poor. But there were no mass executions and gulags. There was no terror. THERE WERE NO MASS MURDERS of innocent people, as with your beloved Bolsheviks. Therefore, please, LESS THAN PAPHOS, don’t blame me, hell knows what, let's talk somehow easier, okay?

                  And about reading and studying - you say there is an Internet - well, that's great, type in a search engine "Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky" - and you will learn a lot of interesting things about your favorite hero and his deeds.

                  Although I do not believe that this will change anything. You do not need the truth, you need an ideology, you need an IDOL.
                  1. Tanechka-clever
                    Tanechka-clever 26 September 2014 21: 29
                    0
                    Quote: Zlata
                    But there were no mass executions and gulags.


                    You again do not know the story well. France during the revolution was covered in blood. The war in the USA is south-north, and any popular uprisings have always been suppressed very cruelly in modern history - read it. For what people there receive a life sentence.
                    And read carefully about the GULAK - from where the people were sent to death row (penal battalions), and they died heroically. They married and built theaters.
                    And in tsarist times there was famine in the Volga region ", this is Pugachev's uprising, which the State Department is trying to pass off today as intrigues of the Germans, this is a road built on the bones of the Russian people from Moscow to St. Petersburg. You can go on for a long time.
                    Teach history in Russian classics and textbooks of Soviet scientists, and not in textbooks that are written according to the manuals of the State Department and dissidents like Novodvorskaya.
                    1. Zlata
                      Zlata 26 September 2014 21: 51
                      0
                      Listen, I know FACTS, not manuals written by someone. Facts about the life of my grandparents' family. And other families of the same kind, by the way, are not counts, as is often emphasized here, but ordinary people. And I already told you, "Echo of Moscow", Navalny, Nemtsov, Makarevich - it's not mine. And I don't care what they say or write there.
                      1. Cynic
                        Cynic 27 September 2014 11: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: Zlata
                        Listen, I know the FACTS, not the manuals written by someone.

                        Mmmm, does the term Stolypin Wagons tell you anything?
                      2. Tanechka-clever
                        Tanechka-clever 27 September 2014 18: 54
                        0
                        Quote: Cynic
                        Stolypin Wagons


                        I suppose NO. Zlata constantly refers only to his grandparents - like this is Russia.

                        I think she did not hear about the resettlement .... in the Stolypin Wagons.
                      3. Cynic
                        Cynic 27 September 2014 19: 52
                        0
                        Quote: Tanya-umunechka
                        I think she did not hear about the resettlement .... in the Stolypin Wagons.

                        Hmm _
                        When the resettlement company began to decline, “Stolypin cars” began to be used to transport convicts.

                        About Stolypin Tie and do not want to ask.

                        And the same person said _

                        Genius and villainy are incompatible?
                        Yes Yes . And Salieri, by the way, was considered by contemporaries more talented than Mozart.
                        laughing
                      4. Tanechka-clever
                        Tanechka-clever 27 September 2014 18: 54
                        0
                        Quote: Cynic
                        Stolypin Wagons


                        I suppose NO. Zlata constantly refers only to his grandparents - like this is Russia.

                        I think she did not hear about the resettlement .... in the Stolypin Wagons.
          3. RUSS
            RUSS 22 September 2014 21: 38
            +4
            Quote: Interface
            This is the Russian Federation, having revived all the abominations of Romanov’s Russia, and not one of its dignities is trying to bane Lenin and his comrades, simultaneously rehabilitating the whites.


            And you I look red to the bone! fool
            1. Interface
              Interface 22 September 2014 23: 32
              -3
              And you I look red to the bone!


              Aw, p-zdabol drew.

              1. You knock your turnips, and you will express your discontent in the bathroom (or in the toilet, as you like).

              You sit down, turn on the hot water and swear.
              Will you answer for the words, Great-Russian balabol?


              2. Yes, squalor, because the share of the Russian Federation in world production is less than that of pre-revolutionary Russia (1,5 and 5,4%, respectively).

              At the same time, the positions in R&D and technical education were almost irrevocably handed over, but for 20 years, we have been hosting expensive games like Sochi and the future World Cup-2018.
              In practice-- no use. Stadiums in Sochi are already idle idle, but their maintenance costs in large amounts.

              Instead of developing science and industry, we build churches on every turn and build stadiums.

              Imagine a situation.

              The USSR won the competition for the Winter and Summer Olympics in the 1936 year, and, instead of industrializing and modernizing the army, would Stalin order the construction of stadiums throughout the Union?

              Can you imagine this enchanting performance of debism?




              Question: Are we very "rich" or what? Has it become a lot of money?
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 23 September 2014 21: 31
                +2
                Quote: Interface
                Aw, p-zdabol drew.


                Gopnik you and a tramp bald.


                Quote: Interface
                You sit down, turn on the hot water and swear.
                Will you answer for the words, Great-Russian balabol?


                What words? What are you red to the bone? What's wrong? Fan







                2. Yes, squalor, because the share of the Russian Federation in world production is less than that of pre-revolutionary Russia (1,5 and 5,4%, respectively).


                Foolish if Russia is for you the RF, you have nothing to talk about.
              2. Cynic
                Cynic 27 September 2014 11: 47
                0
                Quote: Interface
                Would Stalin order the construction of stadiums throughout the Union?

                I apologize again, but Joseph Vissarionovich, let’s say, ordered to build stadiums throughout the USSR without the Olympics.
                hi
            2. Cynic
              Cynic 27 September 2014 11: 45
              0
              Quote: RUSS
              red to the bone!

              I apologize, but purely rhetorically _ The extremes, unfortunately, are the same.
              Ultras, that the left, that the right, can be distinguished only by phraseology, the essence is absolutely the same.
              So what are you dear forumchanin RUSS differ from no less respected forumchanin Interface ?
          4. The comment was deleted.
        2. Bayun
          Bayun 22 September 2014 21: 10
          +2
          I support. Restoring the link between times implies a complete counter-revolution before autocracy. On the Lubyanka, it is worth putting, for example, Malyuta Skuratov, since the earlier associates of the Tsars in the Secret Police are little known in history. Alternatively, a more "civilized" graph
          A.X. Benckendorf. And to return the name of the division given at its creation is a good thing.
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. Passer
          Passer 23 September 2014 19: 17
          +2
          Quote: RUSS
          royal names to some military schools to return

          Well, to return to Smolny the status of the Institute of Noble Maidens.
          1. Cynic
            Cynic 23 September 2014 20: 31
            +3
            Quote: Passer
            return to Smolny the status of the Institute of Noble Maidens.

            Not a problem, that's just where to get so many of them. The girls are then noble.
            1. Passer
              Passer 23 September 2014 21: 03
              0
              Quote: Cynic
              Not a problem, that's just where to get so many of them. The girls are then noble.

              With girls - a problem ... Although now Democracy, you can dial and ignoble.
              And for tolerance, there are also a dozen or two gays.
              1. Cynic
                Cynic 24 September 2014 11: 16
                0
                Quote: Passer
                And for tolerance, there are also a dozen or two gays.

                Hmm, not creative!
                One must keep abreast of the latest trends in tolerance _
            2. The comment was deleted.
      2. g1v2
        g1v2 22 September 2014 17: 45
        +3
        Congratulations to all the guys from ODON on the return of their real name, who, who, and they deserved to be proud of their story. And the guys from the Vityaz detachment all the more.
        1. sergio6769
          sergio6769 22 September 2014 18: 02
          0
          OMSDON - power !!!
      3. Grzegoš
        Grzegoš 23 September 2014 10: 15
        0
        I totally agree.
        Once upon a time, our separate tank battalion was formed on the basis of a tank regiment, but the battle flag remained a regimental, past the war. And we were proud of it !!!!
    3. Good cat
      Good cat 22 September 2014 16: 53
      +6
      Samara do not touch Mr. Civil
      1. Civil
        Civil 22 September 2014 16: 55
        -2
        Quote: Good cat
        Samara do not touch Mr. Civil

        Kuibyshev if you are a friend, if the master is Samara.
        1. zart_arn
          zart_arn 22 September 2014 22: 42
          +3
          In general, renaming something and someone is a sign of complete servility and self-worthlessness. As they called from birth (foundation) - carry this name to the end.
          Civil - for your information, Samara people returned the historical name, the whole world collected signatures.
      2. RUSS
        RUSS 22 September 2014 17: 06
        +5
        Quote: Good cat
        Samara do not touch Mr. Civil



        Civilian and does not touch, he hints at the extremes in our reality, rename everything several times!
      3. Bayonet
        Bayonet 22 September 2014 20: 04
        +4
        Quote: Good cat
        Samara do not touch Mr. Civil

        I support - 100 pounds !!!
    4. Victor Demchenko
      Victor Demchenko 22 September 2014 16: 54
      +7
      Well, about the EP in the CPSU, there is no need to spend money, there are already 99% of the former "commies" (not my expression, Mrs. Novotovskoy-toad)
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 22 September 2014 17: 11
        +13
        Quote: Civil
        Kuibyshev if you are a friend, if the master is Samara.
        Valerian Kuybyshev had nothing to do with Samara. There are many Kuybyshevs in Russia, and Samara is a unique historical name. It is even mentioned in the Bible. fellow! ))) Do not touch the good Samaritans, we decide which city to live in. The division is also the same. The initiative came from the veterans of this compound --- they gave her the best years of their lives, and many of their comrades and their heads laid down for the country. Have full right hi
        1. Civil
          Civil 22 September 2014 17: 26
          +1
          Quote: Thunderbolt
          Quote: Civil
          Kuibyshev if you are a friend, if the master is Samara.
          Valerian Kuybyshev had nothing to do with Samara. There are many Kuybyshevs in Russia, and Samara is a unique historical name. It is even mentioned in the Bible. fellow! ))) Do not touch the good Samaritans, we decide which city to live in. The division is also the same. The initiative came from the veterans of this compound --- they gave her the best years of their lives, and many of their comrades and their heads laid down for the country. Have full right hi

          Kuibyshev was one of the closest associates and economic advisers to Joseph Stalin
          Maybe you are against renaming Rybinsk to Andropov?
          1. Thunderbolt
            Thunderbolt 22 September 2014 18: 18
            +3
            Quote: Civil
            Kuibyshev was one of the closest associates and economic advisers to Joseph Stalin
            Although Karl Marx, no one in Samara feels an urgent need to change their native name, such a question does not arise at all. And I have not heard such talk about other cities. There is a particular question about renaming Volgograd, but here we must bear in mind that after the Battle of Stalingrad the name became legendary , metaphysical, global commons (like a word satellite. And here you can discuss, hold local referenda. The name of the division is also. It is native, legendary and very interesting who came up with the name in the 90s.
            1. Interface
              Interface 22 September 2014 18: 57
              -4
              After the Battle of Stalingrad, the name became legendary, metaphysical, global heritage (like the word satellite.


              And what about Leningrad?
              Also a legendary name. No less legendary than Stalingrad.

              Only the near-democrats do not like the surname "Lenin", so the residents of the city on the Neva will be deprived of the honor of wearing a heroic name, then?
          2. Bayonet
            Bayonet 22 September 2014 20: 07
            +3
            Quote: Civil
            Maybe you are against renaming Rybinsk to Andropov?

            The Communists did not suffer from modesty, renaming Russian cities with their proper names!
            1. Interface
              Interface 22 September 2014 23: 09
              -4
              They had every right and the Russian people did not speak out against.

              Not known not a single case so that residents oppose the renaming of cities then, at the beginning of the 20's.
        2. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 23 September 2014 23: 41
          +1
          Everything in Samara has changed
          Today, life without fools
          But stayed on the streets
          The names of the Bolsheviks.
          And walking around Samara
          On the corner of big houses
          I read very often
          The names of the Bolsheviks.
          Okay before, old power
          It was necessary to honor them all.
          But now, with what happiness
          Continue to love them?
          Why are we going along Frunze,
          And we walk along Wenzeck.
          And from Lenin Avenue
          Do we go to Osipenko?
          Why do we need Elizarov,
          Guy and Chekistov street?
          Half of Samara
          They called it in honor of the Communists.
          God be with them - their problem,
          That Marxism was planted here.
          But now philosophical
          Shakes the story of the tablet.
          Something urgently needs to be done,
          So that among the Samara streets
          Not loomed Tukhachevsky
          And the bloody Zasulich.
          There was Khrustalnaya street,
          But called for centuries
          Her in memory of Karl Marx
          By decision of the Central Committee.
          There is Perovskaya street,
          Kirov is also Krzhizhanovsky,
          Kuibyshev - cast in metal
          He stands in the square.
          So Samara names
          Grinded in red.
          Bolshevik proclamations
          Fucked the whole world!
          That would change the plates,
          Rewrite names.
          To Karl Marx again
          Call us Crystal.
          Samara will immediately
          More fun for us to walk.
          After all, any of us will forget
          Red Bonz list.
          So cancel the rudiments
          The country has changed!
          Deserving applause
          Change street names!
          http://forum.n-sk.info/?fid=4&id=10723&page=2
          1. studentmati
            studentmati 24 September 2014 00: 01
            +2
            Quote: Thunderbolt
            Not loomed Tukhachevsky


            Hi, Lesh! To be honest, I didn’t like the verse. Tukhachevsky, specifically, I respect.
            It's no good working for the public. If you want to perpetuate, then build new neighborhoods and call the streets by their proper names, which is easier?
            I think it’s not worth tedding graves? What do you think, Lesh?
      2. kodxnumx
        kodxnumx 22 September 2014 17: 15
        +6
        How many liberals jumped from the rooftops! Let me even hang them on the branches against my window, even help to fix the rope! From these ... some problems for both Russia and the people.
      3. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 22 September 2014 17: 49
        +7
        Quote: Viktor Demchenko
        Well, about the EP in the CPSU then

        First you need to revive the UNION, and then rename it in accordance with the statute!
        Still, the "bronzed" partocrats would have kicked out the party with a fucking broom. And better, like Mao - to the village, for re-education! Let as KOMMUNISIT GUBANOV (from the movie of the same name) prepare the forest for the locomotive, which has a stop in the "commune!"
        And then, as you do not look - some talkers and lassots, but there is nothing!
        Correctly said: Ideas turned into slogans, slogans into posters, and the wind ripped off the posters and carried away ... IMHO.
    5. Horn
      Horn 22 September 2014 17: 44
      +8
      No need to jerk. Samara was originally Samara, Naberezhnye Chelny - Naberezhnye Chelny. And the division was originally named after Dzerzhinsky. Petya was the first to destroy the people, but we are not shy to call the city by his name ...
    6. Past_ Crocodile
      Past_ Crocodile 22 September 2014 17: 50
      +2
      However, mores softened: in the old days for bad news (or just a word) they poured lead into the throat, and now they are simply minus it.
    7. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 22 September 2014 18: 24
      +12
      Quote: Civil
      2. Disagree with our initiatives within 3 days to appear at the appropriate address with things.

      Don’t worry, your nickname is already under control. See you soon wink
      1. Civil
        Civil 22 September 2014 20: 21
        -3
        Alexander Romanov
        Always happy! fellow
    8. Tatarus
      Tatarus 22 September 2014 18: 25
      +4
      Of course I am also civilian. But thank God not so much as you
    9. starshina78
      starshina78 22 September 2014 18: 54
      +6
      By the way, I would not mind perpetuating the memory of Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev. It was during the years of his leadership of the USSR that the army and navy became truly powerful, the country was respected and feared, detente began - treaties were signed to reduce nuclear stockpiles of weapons, and many more other merits from Leonid Ilyich!
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 22 September 2014 19: 20
        +10
        Quote: starshina78
        I would not mind perpetuating the memory of Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev

        You are a brave man! And for that, I respect you, because it’s not popular today to speak well about former party leaders.
        You know, in the midst of defamation of the CPSU, I had a chance to rest in the Crimea. And what was my surprise when, in Novorossiysk, we, the excursionists, the guide led to the modest bronze monument of L.I. Brezhnev - delivered after his death to donations of ordinary citizens! So here: the unexpected is near! There were no flowers, but the monument was neat and tidy.
      2. andrew42
        andrew42 22 September 2014 20: 33
        +3
        And I'm not opposed. Although he was on duty with the guys at the grocery store, waiting for the delivery of orange chewing gum :)) For that it was possible to walk in all the surrounding neighborhoods at 7 years old until 23-00. Totally agree.
    10. Ruslan67
      Ruslan67 22 September 2014 19: 46
      +4
      Quote: Civil
      I ask the competent comrades to record and record in the protocol who will overshadow our progressive initiatives.

      I AM! Arranges?
      1. Civil
        Civil 22 September 2014 20: 22
        -2
        Quote: Ruslan67
        Quote: Civil
        I ask the competent comrades to record and record in the protocol who will overshadow our progressive initiatives.

        I AM! Arranges?

        Then proceed to step 2! wink
    11. izGOI
      izGOI 22 September 2014 19: 55
      0
      Civil Chi Ganapolsky, one ...
    12. Consul-t
      Consul-t 22 September 2014 20: 53
      +1
      Faithful dear comrades! Samara back to Kuibyshev, Chelny to Brezhnev!
      1. I ask the competent comrades to record and record in the protocol who will overshadow our progressive initiatives.
      2. Disagree with our initiatives within 3 days to appear at the appropriate address with things.

      You overdo it, buddy. We don’t know much about Felix.
      Here, read
      The last fight of Felix Dzerzhinsky

      No. 28 (370) of July 25, 2013 [“Arguments of the Week”, Valentin SIDORIN]
      The last fight of Felix Dzerzhinsky

      www.parnuha.ka4ka.ru

      On June 20, 1926, Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky died in Moscow. For over 80 years, his personality has been fanned by stereotypes. In Soviet times, the image was created of the “knight of the revolution without fear and reproach”, “Iron Felix”, “security officer with a warm heart and cold mind”; after perestroika - the "red tyrant", the "blood executioner." The apotheosis of this was the demolition of the monument to Dzerzhinsky on Lubyanka Square, and it looks very symbolic if you know what ruined the heart of Felix Edmundovich.

      The electronic funds of the Presidential Library (website www.rglib.ru) received a book that was published only once - in 1927. It is called "F.E. Dzerzhinsky. The last three speeches. " It contains transcripts of speeches by Dzerzhinsky as chairman of the All-Russian Council of the National Economy at meetings held several days before his death.
      1. Consul-t
        Consul-t 22 September 2014 20: 55
        +6
        The preface to the publication is written by V.M. Molotov. Which noted that “Dzerzhinsky volunteered for war (as before with homelessness) with shortcomings and flaws in the management system, bureaucratic red tape. He was a stranger to any whimper, loud pessimism and panic before difficulties. "

        Iron Felix, who had overcome child crime and homelessness before, having put things in order in the law enforcement bodies of the young Soviet Republic, studied the economy and economy of the USSR during 1924–26 and tried to change the system of bureaucracy, which grew much faster than achievements in the real sector of industry and agriculture . He joined the battle with the bureaucrats, which was his last.

        In a speech that was made on the day of death, he protects the peasant and warns against manipulation of facts about the excessive incomes of peasants. It goes against officials who, little understanding of the essence of things, said that they wanted to hear from them. At the same time, Dzerzhinsky, of course, was not an oppositionist - he simply demanded that the system work efficiently, responsibly and everyone understood what they were doing.

        The relevance of his thoughts and views is sometimes astounding, and the quotes of his speeches can and should be studied by students in advanced training courses for public servants. To make this clear, it is enough to quote Iron Felix from his dying appearances.

        “What we do, know the pieces of paper in our portfolios”

        “If the labor productivity of managers is measured by energy costs, then a lot of energy is spent in bureaucratic bodies and chancelleries, but the sense of it is ugly. If we say that one trust sent 25 pounds of papers to the other, is that what you need to measure productivity? And our measurements are determined precisely by pounds, pounds of correspondence, the length of our statements and unheard of red tape.

        The management system and practice are one of the most important obstacles that hinder the raising of labor productivity. We need to reduce red tape, paper scrapping, the flow of documents in which we are drowning. The paper sent to the factory, I counted, 32 hands pass, in the machine in two places they start business on it. Instead of phoning and asking, the bureaucrats write a piece of paper, and now she went for a walk. It is necessary to restructure the work, to destroy unnecessary bureaucratic links, to lay more responsibility on those directly performing the work.

        Papers with one or another demand come to the Council of National Economy, and in order to avoid red tape, they began to send them in my name. Every day comes 100-200 papers in the name of Dzerzhinsky. I am in a position that I have to sit in heaps of paper, and when living people come to me who create life, I don’t have time to accept them. We need to make sure that there is no such bureaucratic system when we do not know what we are doing, but the papers in our portfolios know it.

        It is necessary to change the custom that if someone needs a report, they write a whole volume to him. Those who manage your business cannot read these volumes of yours. Nobody reads them. It is necessary to write briefly and clearly, if such an offer comes to me, I will study it, and instead of sitting at night and reading these reports, in which nine-tenths is superfluous, call an interested person, and then this comrade already assumes responsibility to the cause.

        The devices are growing unheard of. There should not be extra staff, each employee needs a clear responsibility. He should be known not only in his organization, but also to everyone with whom he deals. Correspondence must be replaced in every way with personal contacts. ”
        1. Consul-t
          Consul-t 22 September 2014 20: 56
          +3
          “We suffer from organizational fetishism”

          “The work of the device should be brought to the maximum clarity, fast pace. I was recently told that in one of the largest trusts, up to 40% of the money is spent on the maintenance of the apparatus compared to what the workers pay. This organization is no good, since it produces an expense in this amount for its maintenance.

          We suffer from organizational fetishism. It seems to us that in order to organize a business, it is enough to take paper, sit down in your office and write: "take energetic measures", "find funds" and so on. It seems to us sufficient to take a pencil and draw a family tree with expanded circles. We lead one circle to another, the second to the third, and now, having drawn a picture, as if organized. At the same time, living people are erased, while this work cannot be mechanized. This is a brain work, individual, although at the same time deeply collective.

          Not institutions operate, but people work in institutions. There should be clarity and clarity, who is personally responsible for what, personal responsibility. Of course, the chairman is responsible for everything, but this is a bureaucratic responsibility. The hierarchy should be, but not meaningless. Endless collegiality, commissions, meetings, etc. turned into a hindrance. A lot of time is spent on meetings and commissions. By reducing them, we are expanding the system of personal responsibility. It is necessary that we should not be pulled back and forth and that we should not pulled others. ”

          "I did not come up with a recipe, I'm looking for ..."

          “Everyone should have their own ambitions, a certain ambition, everyone has a name and a face. After all, at the factory every worker wants to have the best qualifications. And why, in our governing bodies, the comrade only writes, and after that he reads another, and they do not care. Every job needs to be qualified.

          Our system is such that we encourage science fiction. The workshop gives numbers, we remake them, they remake us at the State Planning Commission. With this system, it turns out that you can take as much as you like. We know in advance that the numbers are incorrect, what responsibility can be for them?

          We must fight this system no matter what. But I did not come up with any recipe. I am looking, comrades, and have come to very sad conclusions. We need to find other ways. A principle that seems absolutely true to me is a close-knit family and responsibility when everyone is responsible for their own business. If a person does not cope - leave, give another place.

          One of the reasons for our shortcomings is that we work with too much stress, without reserve. ”
          1. Consul-t
            Consul-t 22 September 2014 20: 59
            +12
            Last speech

            The quotes that belong to Dzerzhinsky were told by him shortly before July 20, 1926. On that day, a plenum of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks took place, at which Iron Felix accumulated his thoughts and position on bureaucracy, the unprofessionalism of the administrative apparatus and really clashed with the people's commissars, their allies, who were quite comfortable with the current system.

            At the congress, Iron Felix displayed a huge cohesive system in clean water. He met with Trotsky and Kamenev according to statistics, which he called crafty. He noted that "the industry, led by Comrade Kamenev, is the most disordered, absorbing our income." He said that it was necessary to "increase efficiency, not cover deficiencies."

            Dzerzhinsky defended the villager, the “peasant,” by comparing wholesale prices for grain delivery and retail prices for manufactured goods. He called the anti-Soviet system of selling prices, attempts to ruin the village, hiding behind only one class instinct. “It is necessary to industrialize the country, but this will not happen if we do not get food from the village. You can’t industrialize if you speak with fear of the ruin of the village. ”

            These speeches caused a panic, they were unpleasant, because they sounded from a person who had already taken place as a manager and in his new field did not sit out his pants, but figured out everything. Dzerzhinsky answered Kamenev, who had inflated the prices of manufactured goods for the village and who complained that he was only 4 months of the People’s Commissar of Commerce: “You will be worthless for 44 years, because you are engaged in politics and not work. My strength is that I never spare myself. But it’s hard for me to cope alone, so I ask you for help. ”

            On the same day in the evening, Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky died - as a true revolutionary, in battle. And this battle was, perhaps, harder than with the bandits in the 1917-1920s, and the views and aspirations of the chairman of the All-Union Council of People's Commissars give an answer to the question - why in both Soviet and democratic ideology Felix was associated only with the Chekists and security forces. The bureaucracy has always been able to defend itself, guarding itself even from dead reformers.

            That was Felix.
            Who will say that he does not agree with what he said ???
    13. sergi801
      sergi801 22 September 2014 20: 55
      +1
      Well, you’re a civilian and a liberalist;
    14. skeket
      skeket 22 September 2014 21: 09
      +2
      Quote: Civil
      Faithful dear comrades! Samara back to Kuibyshev, Chelny to Brezhnev!
      1. I ask the competent comrades to record and record in the protocol who will overshadow our progressive initiatives.
      2. Disagree with our initiatives within 3 days to appear at the appropriate address with things.

      Start to panic! Another Academy is now again named after Frunze)))
    15. STALGRAD76
      STALGRAD76 22 September 2014 22: 17
      +1
      You need to start ... in Volgograd, the streets are named after commanders, units and formations, but there is no street in honor of Khrushchev, and the 10 division of the NKVD is because they fought and did not live in the rear and there is Dzerzhinsky Square soldier
    16. gunya
      gunya 22 September 2014 22: 49
      +2
      Chronic idiocy is incurable!
      With such epaulets it was possible to come up with something smarter.
    17. gunya
      gunya 22 September 2014 22: 49
      0
      Chronic idiocy is incurable!
      With such epaulets it was possible to come up with something smarter.
    18. Victorio
      Victorio 22 September 2014 23: 15
      +1
      why hysteria, it is more reasonable to prove and convince that the decision is untimely, and even ill-conceived
    19. Farvil
      Farvil 23 September 2014 07: 27
      -2
      Jews howled, after the march (peace), it became immediately clear who is who and why Stalin purged at 37.
    20. Cynic
      Cynic 23 September 2014 07: 35
      +1
      Quote: Civil
      Disagree with our initiatives within 3 days to appear at the appropriate address with things.

      It’s not good, they themselves collected things, dried crackers dried?
      Not !
      And advise others.
      Like-minded people who have gathered and dried can not understand, and they suspect the hell knows what!
      hi
    21. 4952915
      4952915 23 September 2014 09: 20
      0
      And here the crested monkey Majdanek is fussing sadly ... There are two more options - chronic liberalization of the spinal cord (the brain is clearly absent, as a class), or a grant dog. No, I forgot, there may still be an "officer's daughter". Yes, understand, finally, that your malicious antics have long caused neither indignation nor laughter, only tired disgust.
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 23 September 2014 17: 43
        0
        Quote: 4952915
        And here the crested monkey of Maidanek fusses dejectedly ...

        But it’s a pity there is no article for insulting the memory of the victims of Nazism.
        Majdanek (Polish Majdanek, German Konzentrationslager Lublin, Vernichtungslager Lublin, Hebrew מיידנק) is the Third Reich death camp on the outskirts of the Polish city of Lublin.
        ...
        The exposition of the State Museum of Majdanek provides updated data: in total about 150 prisoners visited the camp, about 000 were killed, 80 of them were Jews [000].
        ...
        Majdanek is one of the two death camps of the Third Reich where this gas was used (the second is Auschwitz).

        Quote: 4952915
        No, I forgot, there may still be an "officer's daughter".

        Well, why so frankly about yourself, although _ Do not forget to wear on holidays and on weekdays
    22. Umnichka
      Umnichka 23 September 2014 23: 03
      +1
      The punitive division - to punish mercilessly such as "Civilian" and the rest of the bandits. Mercilessly. The name was returned correctly. I hope this is just the beginning.
    23. Camouflet
      Camouflet 23 September 2014 23: 47
      +1
      Civil (3) RU Yesterday, 16:46

      "Right dear comrades! Samara back to Kuibyshev, Chelny to Brezhnev!
      1. I ask the competent comrades to record and record in the protocol who will overshadow our progressive initiatives.
      2. Those who disagree with our initiatives to appear at the appropriate address with their belongings within 3 days. "

      What was he upset about? Or was he worried about his skin?

      Yes, this is not your business, as the military unit is called. Who are you to protest the decision of the commander-in-chief? Moreover, since you position yourself as a "civilian".

      Be closer to your own.
    24. Krapach8394
      Krapach8394 25 September 2014 05: 51
      +1
      It is immediately obvious that you are a "civilian", even though you are a "marshal" ... I had the honor to serve in this division until 1994, when the "politicians" of the new formation who came to power took the name of its creator from it. I served in the division them. Dzerzhinsky is almost nine years old, was written off for injury. And over all these years, and before them, the division lost hundreds of worthy fighters, officers and soldiers who, not sparing themselves and their lives, died defending the honor, dignity and lives of ordinary citizens in various conflict zones, ATO and just in ordinary life ... She brought them up and continue to educate new fighters in the traditions laid down by F.E.Dzerzhinsky. Conscience, honor, dignity, nobility and self-sacrifice are not empty words for the fighters of the most professional and combat-ready division of the Interior Ministry of the Russian Interior Ministry. This is their way and rule of life, created by many years of history and just daily work ... You can probably rename cities, reinforced concrete, like paper, will endure everything. You can call different organizations differently in the hope of changing something for the better. But history sooner or later makes adjustments to the events of the past. It is also called upon to restore historical justice. Division them. Dzerzhinsky is one of those whose history was written with the blood of her fighters, who even today shed it, professionally protecting the interests of the common people, first of all, and not the authorities. And the return of the division to the name of its creator and ideological inspirer is a historically natural result ... And you, "Grazhdansky", before drawing conclusions about the "bloodthirstiness" of F.E.Dzerzhinsky, should study the history of his life and work. A lot will be a real revelation for you. And ask at the same time the history of the division itself. Dzerzhinsky. God willing you will understand what she really is and who are the special forces soldiers of the Interior Ministry of Russia ...
    25. doxtop
      doxtop 25 September 2014 13: 36
      -1
      Lord !!! People! Why did you blame the man !? For the irony !? Or for a veiled banter?
      Pancake! I feel truly sorry for you! Do not be like cattle. Turn on the brain. :)
      Respectfully to all!
      IMHO.
      wassat
  2. Passer
    Passer 22 September 2014 16: 47
    +7
    How many liberals from such a roof will jump down from such a roof today ... Especially, if we spend too much time on it for days.

    It's time ...
    1. vitamin ky
      vitamin ky 22 September 2014 19: 33
      +2
      The divisions of the Internal Affairs Ministry returned the name of Dzerzhinsky. How many liberals jumped from the roof? - Gytsy Gyts, as I understand it, this is both a question and an answer in one bottle.
      1 question - well, it’s clear and the answer is only in the difference of opinions and numbers recourse
      2-the answer - how and what to fight with the liberals - well, it all depends on the imagination good laughing
  3. FACKtoREAL
    FACKtoREAL 22 September 2014 16: 47
    +3
    Divisions VV MIA returned the name Dzerzhinsky. How many liberals jumped off the roof?

    NO ONE request
    crying
    1. tundra
      tundra 22 September 2014 16: 51
      +9
      A pity, a pity.
      1. Drednout
        Drednout 22 September 2014 17: 07
        +4
        Why did Felix disagree with the current demons? Pole by birth, revolutionary. He put things in order in the destroyed republic. He dealt with children. What is its bloodiness higher for example Tukhachevsky or Berry with Yezhov or Trotsky?
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 22 September 2014 17: 33
          +6
          Quote: Drednout
          What is its bloodiness higher for example Tukhachevsky or Berry with Yezhov or Trotsky?



          That is, you confirm the bloody Dzerzhinsky? And if according to your words the bloodshed is not higher, and therefore the same as that of Yezhov and Trotsky, then why is there no monument to these two butchers? And should Dzerzhinsky have?
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 22 September 2014 18: 10
            +4
            Quote: RUSS
            That is, you confirm the bloody Dzerzhinsky? And if according to your words the bloodshed is not higher, and therefore the same as that of Yezhov and Trotsky, then why is there no monument to these two butchers? And should Dzerzhinsky have?

            You know any GW is an extremely bloody confrontation. But nevertheless, Dzerzhinsky was noted not only as the creator of the Cheka, but also as the chairman of the Supreme Council of the National Economy. And in general, everything is known in comparison. In France, the "Bloody Jacobins", the initiators of the terror, the monuments are not demolished.
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 22 September 2014 20: 30
              +6
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              In France, the "Bloody Jacobins", the initiators of the terror, the monuments are not demolished.
              If you think that the fight against monuments is purely "Russian national fun", then you are mistaken! "The Light of Democracy" - GB - in my opinion, surpassed everyone when the deceased Cromwell was dug out of the grave, hung, then the remains were burned, the ashes were scattered in the wind ... I will modestly keep silent about the monuments.
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              Nevertheless, Dzerzhinsky noted not only as the creator of the Cheka, but also as the chairman of the Supreme Economic Council.

              But with this statement "marked" - I do not agree! F.E. Dzerzhinsky was BURNING at work, giving all of himself, without a trace, to the cause of the revolution. Therefore, he was called "the knight of the revolution!"
              Most importantly, in addition to the fact that he was able to suppress the counter-revolution by creating the OGPU, which exposed numerous conspiracies of foreign emissaries (Operation Trust).
              It was FE Dzerzhinsky who was the People's Commissar of Internal Affairs and the People's Commissar of Railways. It was through his efforts that Moscow survived when they tried to strangle it with the "bony hand of hunger." Only thanks to his organizational skills, the railway transport did not die to death!
              And what is the saved generation of street children worth! 5 million children were pulled out of the gateway and were able to become full-fledged citizens of the country. 8 academicians of the USSR Academy of Sciences - former homeless! And the factory "FED!", Where the guys collected cameras!
              He was a professional in economic matters.
              Dzerzhinsky died after his 2-hour report at the Plenum of the Central Committee on the state of the country's economy, truly, remaining in office until the end!
              And what about the "bloody" - and that was also. The time was like this: revolution! Here "who will win" - no sentimentality! There was no other way, otherwise they would not have stayed in power ...
              And everyone understands this, but the trouble is that everyone is looking at this time, being on different banks. And everyone has their own truth.
              IMHO.
              1. Zlata
                Zlata 23 September 2014 17: 57
                -1
                Quote: BoA KAA

                And what about the "bloody" - and that was also. The time was like this: revolution! Here "who will win" - no sentimentality! There was no other way, otherwise they would not have stayed in power ...
                And everyone understands this, but the trouble is that everyone is looking at this time, being on different banks. And everyone has their own truth.
                IMHO.

                You will excuse me, but then we just DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING ACCOUNT for Poroshenko and his associates. He just then can declare that it was impossible in a different way, otherwise they would not have remained in power, without sentiment, etc.
                And I believe that the killing of innocent people can not be justified by anything. No lofty ideas. By the way, all the butchers had these ideas. Each has his own wonderful idea - equality, fraternity, for the purity of the nation, for a bright future, for a single country, etc. etc. Only here the ways of translating ideas were monstrous. So do not need the same rake. Do not make yourself an idol — a great commandment.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Tanechka-clever
                  Tanechka-clever 24 September 2014 15: 52
                  +1
                  Quote: Zlata
                  then we just have NOTHING to blame Poroshenko and his associates


                  "Fedorin's grief" and only - I don't even want to regret it.

                  Confuse confrontation and ordinary fascism.
                  small lekbez-fascism is not directed against the armed forces, but primarily against the civilian (civilian population).
                  The actions of the junta army intensified with the advent of war criminal Poroshenko. The actions of the junta punitive army are aimed primarily - not against armed militias, but against the civilian population.
                  This was shown by the bloody events in SLAVYANSK, where Igor Ivanovich Strelkov flocked, and from where he was forced to leave for this very reason.

                  At the same time, I want to remind you that the State Department and Obama support and justify such bloody events in the Donbass since they themselves can bomb a peaceful mountain in the world - it’s a pleasure, so to speak, a training ground for practicing skills on live targets. They forced Poroshenko to do this - only he signed up for it, and then the military of the Ukrainian army began to kill in the name of military duty.
                  And the last - Strelkov’s departure from Slavyansk was condemned by Kurginyan, who said that there was nothing surprising in the murder of civilians - since this is a war, which caused the outrage of the Internet community ....
                  1. Cynic
                    Cynic 24 September 2014 20: 10
                    -1
                    Quote: Tanya-umunechka
                    Confuse confrontation and ordinary fascism.

                    Sorry, but, unfortunately, no one confused anything.
                    In a word, representatives, in their opinion, of the intelligentsia. A lot has been said throughout life, but nothing has been done. All someone interferes.
                    We are for them _
                  2. Zlata
                    Zlata 26 September 2014 01: 32
                    -1
                    Listen, Tanya, umnechka, I do not catch the train of your thoughts. Well, thanks for answering, wrote such a text. But what does the State Department and Obama have to do with it? And Kurginyan? In general, the farther into the forest, the more firewood)). And what did you mean by the word confrontation? Who is opposing someone?
                3. Cynic
                  Cynic 24 September 2014 20: 07
                  0
                  Quote: Zlata
                  You will excuse me, but then we just DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING ACCOUNT for Poroshenko and his associates.

                  Good for, well, well.
                  What can you say to these guys?
                  1. Zlata
                    Zlata 26 September 2014 01: 07
                    -1
                    Quote: Cynic
                    Quote: Zlata
                    You will excuse me, but then we just DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING ACCOUNT for Poroshenko and his associates.

                    Good for, well, well.
                    What can you say to these guys?


                    YOU didn't understand me AT ALL. Do you think that I am defending Poroshenko ??? !!! Yeah ... We lived ... It seemed to me that I clearly state my thoughts. I meant that if we whitewash the punishers of the past who destroyed their own people, then what are the claims to the punishers of the present time? If Lenin, Stalin and Dzerzhinsky are good - well then Poroshenko is wonderful! He also puts things in order "without sentimentality", right? With a strong hand, right? In the family of my grandfather, people were shot in Stalin's times - NOT FOR ANYTHING. I have already written a detailed commentary on how ordinary people lived after the October Revolution, my grandfather's family and other families, and what kind of life it was - you cannot wish the enemy. I can repeat it if you like. So, knowing all this, I cannot agree with the enthusiasm "Oh, if only we had Stalin!", "Oh, what a wonderful clever Dzerzhinsky was!", "Oh, grandfather Lenin, how I love him!" - and with other sugary nostalgic outpourings that HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON with the eerie reality of those years. So I say to these comrades - well, why then Poroshenko is not a hero to you?
                    1. DRA-88
                      DRA-88 26 September 2014 01: 41
                      +2
                      Quote: Zlata
                      If Lenin, Stalin and Dzerzhinsky are good - well then Poroshenko is wonderful! He also puts things in order "without sentimentality", right?

                      I will try to answer and it is unlikely that you will like my answer!
                      People like you yelled during perestroika about the "bloodthirsty" Stalin, about the worthlessness of the Revolution! Read the archives, they contain a lot of truth about the so-called repression! These are the stinking lies of the "Yakovlev" moles, which from within methodically destroyed the USSR for 30 pieces of silver! This is because of people like you, the outskirts are now forcibly separated from Russia and parashenka and other oligarchs are your offspring !!!
                      And if you can’t bear the names of revolutionaries, then get out of your head the Soviet education, leave the apartment, do not use water supply, do not use the railways and other infrastructure built during the USSR. I’m afraid that you will have to sit with a torch on the earthen floor and look in the window, covered in a bull bubble, return to pre-revolutionary realities, so to speak ....
                      1. studentmati
                        studentmati 26 September 2014 01: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: DRA-88
                        I will try to answer and it is unlikely that you will like my answer!


                        Good night, Vladlen! For many days I’ve been looking for confirmation that the Divisions have returned the name of Dzerzhinsky, and I can’t find it? On the website of the President there is no where everyone refers to the Decree? Can you tell me where to look?
                      2. DRA-88
                        DRA-88 26 September 2014 02: 15
                        0
                        Alexander, Greetings!
                        Honestly, I did not see any links or documentary evidence, except for the plot in the news feeds on R-24, if I am not mistaken. hi
                      3. Zlata
                        Zlata 26 September 2014 02: 15
                        0
                        Quote: DRA-88

                        I will try to answer and it is unlikely that you will like my answer!
                        People like you yelled during perestroika about the "bloodthirsty" Stalin, about the worthlessness of the Revolution! Read the archives, they contain a lot of truth about the so-called repression! These are the stinking lies of the "Yakovlev" moles, which from within methodically destroyed the USSR for 30 pieces of silver! This is because of people like you, the outskirts are now forcibly separated from Russia and parashenka and other oligarchs are your offspring !!!
                        And if you can’t bear the names of revolutionaries, then get out of your head the Soviet education, leave the apartment, do not use water supply, do not use the railways and other infrastructure built during the USSR. I’m afraid that you will have to sit with a torch on the earthen floor and look in the window, covered in a bull bubble, return to pre-revolutionary realities, so to speak ....


                        I will answer briefly. I didn't "yell" about anything, I knew all this for a long time, this is the life of our family, my ancestors. I know about her very well, and it is unlikely that some far-fetched ideological nonsense can change this.

                        Ukraine within its borders was riveted by your beloved revolutionaries. For the massacre in the Donbass, I must say thanks to them as well.

                        I prefer the development of the country to evolutionary, i.e. peacefully, not revolutionary, i.e. bloody. If there had not been a bloody October revolution, which flattened out a great country, all the above benefits would have been in the country much earlier.
                      4. DRA-88
                        DRA-88 26 September 2014 02: 22
                        +1
                        I apologize for being too harsh! hi
                        Quote: Zlata
                        all the above benefits would be in the country much earlier.

                        And here Stanislavsky himself enters the battle for me: "I don't believe!"
                    2. Cynic
                      Cynic 26 September 2014 09: 27
                      +1
                      Quote: Zlata
                      YOU did not understand me at all. Do you think that I am defending Poroshenko ??? !!! Yeah ... We survived ... It seemed to me that I clearly stated my thoughts. I meant that if we whitewash the punishers of the past who destroyed our own people, then what claims to the punishers of the present tense -?

                      Hmm, excuse me, but THIS YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING and are unlikely to understand.
                      In your reasoning, you used the similarity method _ If, in your opinion, Iron Felix is ​​the executioner, then calling Parashenko the executioner do we equalize them? And, like, justifying one, we lose the right to condemn the other?
                      Beautiful and inimitable, like everything uttered by our naive, I really hope so, compatriots!
                      By the way, do you know that the Second World War, which we call the Patriotic War, in truth, is the Third and World War II, the Second?
                      Read the story carefully, there are candidates, according to your criteria, to the bloody executioners and stranglers ... And what is characteristic precisely among European statesmen!
                      I am silent about the Yusovian genocide of the Indians, etc. ! And France, a beacon of democracy ...
                      However, there nobody spits in the past and doesn’t wallow in hysterics!
                      We have ...
                      Take off your pink glasses, the history of any state is cruelty and blood in the period of formation and reform.
                      Just do not need to justify the crimes of the bloody gebni, it does not stand up to collisions with documents.
                      That it’s not an angel, yes, but also not Parashenko.
                      Not started by us _
        2. 97110
          97110 22 September 2014 17: 36
          +2
          Quote: Drednout
          What is his bloody higher

          and then a list of statesmen of "free" countries who forged a "civil" society in the 20s and 30s, using the MAXIM machine guns, building a dam in the Great Canyon, etc.
        3. Tanechka-clever
          Tanechka-clever 22 September 2014 23: 12
          0
          Quote: Drednout
          Why did Felix disagree with the current demons?


          They are just still IT IS AFRAID.... even dead ... and after so many years.
    2. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 22 September 2014 17: 03
      +8
      Quote: FACKtoREAL
      Divisions VV MIA returned the name Dzerzhinsky. How many liberals jumped off the roof?
      NO ONE

      In order to jump from the roof of one hatred of Russia is not enough, you need to have a little rod inside, and there are problems with this.
  4. Ratmir
    Ratmir 22 September 2014 16: 48
    +5
    Liberators add ... They wouldn’t piss, they wouldn’t be so hysterical ... In general, they are already afraid of the poor fellow.
  5. RUSS
    RUSS 22 September 2014 16: 52
    -19
    We have everything in two ways, a monument to the executioner in Lubyanka is impossible, but the name of the division can be returned ....

    I wonder what tomorrow they will rename ????
    1. I am
      I am 25 September 2014 13: 33
      0
      The builder of orphanages and the liquidator of the homeless executioner ????? You are dear RUSS friends with your head, and learn the story, smart people say helps.
  6. peter-tank
    peter-tank 22 September 2014 16: 52
    +13
    It is necessary to return Iron Felix to the pedestal in front of the FSB building.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 22 September 2014 17: 37
      -7
      Quote: piter-tank
      It is necessary to return Iron Felix to the pedestal in front of the FSB building.


      What for?
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 22 September 2014 18: 21
        +1
        Quote: RUSS
        Quote: piter-tank
        It is necessary to return Iron Felix to the pedestal in front of the FSB building.


        What for?



        I asked a simple question, why? Instead of answering cons ... what
        1. Bayonet
          Bayonet 22 September 2014 20: 13
          +1
          Quote: RUSS
          I asked a simple question, why? Instead of answering the cons ..

          It's easier - no need to think!
        2. Zlata
          Zlata 23 September 2014 18: 06
          -3
          Quote: RUSS
          Quote: RUSS
          Quote: piter-tank
          It is necessary to return Iron Felix to the pedestal in front of the FSB building.


          What for?



          I asked a simple question, why? Instead of answering cons ... what


          In this case, they vote "with their hearts". On emotions. The Sharikovs do not know how to think and do not want to. But minus is always welcome. These are the people who passed the execution sentences "quickly, without any sentimentality."
          1. Tanechka-clever
            Tanechka-clever 24 September 2014 15: 35
            -1
            Quote: Zlata
            But zamusunuvat


            I have the honor to "minus" your words that are not righteous ...
          2. Tanechka-clever
            Tanechka-clever 24 September 2014 15: 35
            0
            Quote: Zlata
            But zamusunuvat


            I have the honor to "minus" your words that are not righteous ...
            1. Zlata
              Zlata 26 September 2014 01: 35
              0
              Quote: Tanya-umunechka
              Quote: Zlata
              But zamusunuvat


              I have the honor to "minus" your words that are not righteous ...


              Yes, any number. I do not buy the pros. And I write what I think, I do not adapt to anyone.
              1. Tanechka-clever
                Tanechka-clever 26 September 2014 20: 30
                0
                Quote: Zlata
                Yes, as many as you like


                I consider it an honor to receive a "minus" for my "minus" for your comment

                Quote: Zlata
                I do not buy the pros


                I’ll tell you a secret - our pros and cons here - nothing costs anyone - even trolls, who are paid for by the State Department to work on Russian forums.

                Although in my practice it happened that on the forum after communication, people changed their minds or found the answer to the questions posed.
                We write everything here - in the hope of finding the TRUTH ..... or at least get closer to it.
              2. Tanechka-clever
                Tanechka-clever 26 September 2014 20: 30
                0
                Quote: Zlata
                Yes, as many as you like


                I consider it an honor to receive a "minus" for my "minus" for your comment

                Quote: Zlata
                I do not buy the pros


                I’ll tell you a secret - our pros and cons here - nothing costs anyone - even trolls, who are paid for by the State Department to work on Russian forums.

                Although in my practice it happened that on the forum after communication, people changed their minds or found the answer to the questions posed.
                We write everything here - in the hope of finding the TRUTH ..... or at least get closer to it.
          3. I am
            I am 25 September 2014 13: 35
            0
            zamususuvala all your nonsense. advice, heal, you have a pathology.
            1. Zlata
              Zlata 26 September 2014 01: 44
              0
              Quote: I am
              zamususuvala all your nonsense. advice, heal, you have a pathology.


              Are you this to me, or what?

              Let me tell you a secret - I DO NOT give a damn about your minuses from a high tower. Otherwise, I would try to fit in with the general chorus. But I prefer to tell the truth and I am not fooled by the plus signs. "Get treatment, you have a pathology" - a standard phrase when there is nothing to cover. CHEAP and small. Think of something more interesting)).
          4. Cynic
            Cynic 25 September 2014 17: 27
            -1
            Quote: Zlata
            These are the people who passed the execution sentences "quickly, without any sentimentality."
            1. Zlata
              Zlata 26 September 2014 02: 31
              0
              Unfortunately, on this site they are trying to cheat quietly on the one who is telling the truth. I say what I think and what I know. You cannot insult me, no matter how much you would like to. So keep minus behind your back. Yes, even minus 100500. It makes me neither cold nor hot. If I saved up pluses, I would sing in a common choir.
              1. Cynic
                Cynic 26 September 2014 09: 47
                0
                Quote: Zlata
                You cannot insult me, no matter how much you would like to.

                You?
                Yes, not my God!
                Just visually showed how I see your statements, and as for the TRUTH, it was already laid out and not only by me _
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 22 September 2014 20: 38
        +7
        Quote: RUSS
        What for?

        Deservedly before the country. To remember selfless and honest people!
      3. I am
        I am 25 September 2014 13: 34
        0
        In deference to his righteous deeds and saved lives !!!!!!!!!
      4. Cynic
        Cynic 25 September 2014 17: 23
        0
        Quote: RUSS
        What for?

        The answer is very old and simple _
        "A people who have forgotten their past has no future"

        (Plato).
        The worst thing is that the people who destroyed the monuments are essentially the same in the 20s and 90s.
        Tried to abandon their past, and therefore doomed to repeat
  7. sever.56
    sever.56 22 September 2014 16: 52
    +9
    Now they will shout: - "gulag", "Stalinist times", "repression" ... Let them bring down from Russia with their hysterics. Passing x ... in their ass!
    1. fktrcfylhn61
      fktrcfylhn61 22 September 2014 17: 40
      +4
      For them in ... this is happiness. Better as they should be in fact count aspen!
    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 22 September 2014 20: 14
      -1
      Quote: sever.56
      Let them knock from Russia with their tantrums. Associated x ... them in the ass!

      A WHAT remains?
      1. sever.56
        sever.56 22 September 2014 20: 49
        +2
        There will be PEOPLE, citizens and patriots of Russia. But this is your "WHAT" - will dump.
        1. Bayonet
          Bayonet 22 September 2014 21: 52
          -9
          Quote: sever.56
          PEOPLE, citizens and patriots of Russia will remain.

          There will remain uneducated, stupid lumpen, who with redoubled zeal will begin to search for the enemies - the culprits of all the failures, already among their own ... It was already ...
          1. zart_arn
            zart_arn 22 September 2014 23: 05
            -4
            Alexander! It is useless to conduct discussions with religious fanatics.
            There will remain "Civilians" who "with joy" the chain dogs will tear you to pieces or surrender, and then they themselves will be scrolled through a meat grinder, like pravosekov - is there an analogy? Our trouble, Rusichs, is that we continue to try to replace the primordial values ​​of the ethnos with the pseudo-values ​​of bydlocracy in any guise - Bolshevik, totalitarian-dictatorial, ochlocratic, near-liberal, etc. Enough to exalt pseudo-kings, pseudo-homeland and pseudo-faith. Don't humiliate yourself.
            1. tantalum
              tantalum 23 September 2014 01: 55
              0
              Quote: zart_arn
              Enough to exalt pseudo-kings, pseudo-homeland and pseudo-faith.
              YOU where did this come from without a homeland and without faith? And the fact that RUSICHI your trouble is yes, I agree.
              1. zart_arn
                zart_arn 23 September 2014 19: 03
                +4
                YOU where did this come from without a homeland and without faith?

                You were probably offended by the truth. It’s not your fault that for almost a century now the truth is not in our honor. I have a homeland, and faith, and people, and with them we will all survive. And you too.
          2. Passer
            Passer 23 September 2014 01: 05
            +5
            Quote: Bayonet
            There will be uneducated, stupid lumpen,

            Dear, don't you think that dividing the people into educated and uneducated, lumpen and "middle class" (I can not call them "working people"), you are corny slipping into the ideology of fascism?
            I can continue the list:
            Russians are non-Russians;
            Jews - goyim;
            arias - other ...
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. Zlata
            Zlata 23 September 2014 18: 19
            -1
            Quote: Bayonet

            There will remain uneducated, stupid lumpen, who with redoubled zeal will begin to search for the enemies - the culprits of all the failures, already among their own ... It was already ...


            And there is. Again on the same rake.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. tantalum
        tantalum 23 September 2014 01: 56
        0
        Quote: Bayonet
        A WHAT remains?
        How is it that will remain? This is the same .. and will remain in your asses only you will be far away. And that's good :)
        1. Bayonet
          Bayonet 23 September 2014 06: 34
          +1
          Quote: Tantal
          How is it that will remain? This same x .. and will remain in your asses only you will be far away

          It may happen that you will perish like a dangerous disease!
        2. Bayonet
          Bayonet 23 September 2014 10: 51
          +1
          Quote: Tantal
          x only you will be far away

          Fortunately, you are negligible and it will be easier to load everyone in a couple of echelons and send them to North Korea. You’ll stick in each other there, and Russia will become cleaner.
          1. Passer
            Passer 23 September 2014 19: 02
            0
            Quote: Bayonet
            ship everyone in a couple of echelons and send to North Korea

            And why not on barges and in the White Sea? (The version is not mine, Boris Strugatsky.)
          2. The comment was deleted.
      4. I am
        I am 25 September 2014 13: 36
        0
        what will remain ??? wrong question. what - just topple over. but people who care about the fate of the country, and not just their pocket, will remain, or rather remain.
    3. Zlata
      Zlata 23 September 2014 18: 17
      -1
      And you, I see, it does not touch. What a fine fellow! Just think, millions of innocent people were destroyed. It didn’t affect you either, as I understand your family, either. And the others do not care, right? Pull yourself from Russia wherever you want and further along the text. Would you be born in Ukraine, would be a Bandera, since human lives are nothing for you.
    4. Zlata
      Zlata 23 September 2014 20: 39
      0
      Quote: sever.56
      Now they will shout: - "gulag", "Stalinist times", "repression" ... Let them bring down from Russia with their hysterics. Passing x ... in their ass!


      And you, I see, it does not touch. What a fine fellow! Just think, millions of innocent people were destroyed. It didn’t affect you either, as I understand your family, either. And the others do not care, right? Pull yourself from Russia wherever you want and further along the text. Would you be born in Ukraine, would be a Bandera, since human lives are nothing for you.
  8. Victor Demchenko
    Victor Demchenko 22 September 2014 16: 52
    +8
    can grease the roof with lard? that would fly without delay !!! laughing
    1. korjik
      korjik 22 September 2014 17: 16
      +4
      A good kick will perfectly replace a piece of bacon, and a slightly sharpened stake, rope and soap. am
  9. blind
    blind 22 September 2014 16: 53
    +18
    the division was created from scratch and it was given the title to those who created it, which means that people who have served in it for many years can decide what it will be called
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. Bormental
    Bormental 22 September 2014 17: 00
    +4
    It is also necessary to call the matzoh’s ear and the deed for their deeds - SMRAD.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 22 September 2014 20: 49
      +4
      Quote: Bormental
      It is also necessary to name the matzah’s ear and the name of their deeds - SMRAD

      Doctor! A sensible thought, it requires clarification: you need to name - SCRUB!
      And then, you swung at the sacred: the Nest-incubator of "non-systemic opposition".
      That's just me wondering: do they receive US grants "by the SYSTEM or WITHOUT?"
  12. Vend
    Vend 22 September 2014 17: 01
    +13
    Dzerzhinsky can be treated in different ways, but the historical name is the historical name. Returned and good.
  13. andr327
    andr327 22 September 2014 17: 03
    +5
    Any part is proud of its history (everything has victories and defeats in it), and no one has the right to deprive it.
    one of the main tenets of the ideoligical war6 will deprive the people of its history, breaking the link between generations. No matter how we relate to the parts in which we served, but one part is sacred, it is pride ...
  14. Orik
    Orik 22 September 2014 17: 03
    -14
    Why is everyone so overexcited? This "man" together with Bronstein-Trotsky carried out the Red Terror. He has Russian blood on his hands.
    1. andrew42
      andrew42 22 September 2014 17: 36
      -7
      I agree. Why jumped for joy? Dzerzhinsky, on the one hand, is a fairly competent founder of the red special service, on the other, a loyal Leninist, a direct participant and one of the organizers of the Russian meat grinder. I believe that you need to be careful with such symbols. Still, Rosalia Zemlyachki was given a name! Or maybe the Trotsky rhinestone! Why waste time on trifles? Stupid idea to "return the division name". Anti-Russian, provocative, splitting the very Russian world about which so much has been broadcast lately. And it’s also an attempt to enter a long-run away water. Until the October Revolution (I ask you not to interfere with the building of socialism in the USSR) does not receive a clear assessment of how exactly the "anti-Russian project" is, such insinuations will continue. Well, who wants to ride Iron Felix's question? - Let's download. Solovki to help you and the Crimean execution.
      1. bistrov.
        bistrov. 22 September 2014 18: 25
        0
        Quote: andrew42
        one of the organizers of the Russian meat grinder.

        But what, you justify all the "kaplans" who shot at Lenin, the Left SRs, the Antonovs, who raised mutinies, fists rotting grain in the pits and shot in the back of the Red Guard, approve of the tsarist power, which became a brake and curse for all of Russia, "white guard "that killed several hundred thousand Russians and not only for the selfish interests of landowners and capitalists, priests who for centuries disfigured the consciousness of people by some kind of" God ", the beggarly and wretched life of peasants and workers under the tsar, homeless children whom Dzerzhinsky personally sought out in asphalt boilers and assigned to orphanages, Denikin, who wanted to strangle the revolution with an army armed with money from the Entente and to whom monuments are now being erected in Russia. So, in my opinion, than erecting monuments to Denikin, it is better to have a monument to Dzerzhinsky.
        1. andrew42
          andrew42 22 September 2014 19: 47
          +1
          Eck drives you around the bends. I mean the personality of Dzerzhinsky as a "punishing sword of the revolution", and you tell me about Kaplan, but about the street children. No need to regale me with bourdeau soup, and talk about the SRs. I handed in the History of the CPSU for another five, and the bust of Felix on the table at my grandfather stood until his death. And I respect Dzerzhinsky as a professional, but no more. For me it is much more significant that Felix Edmundovich is a leader of the Russian Civil War, and his hands are covered in blood. So do many whites. There was white terror, there was red terror. On the one hand, there were Russians, on the other hand, also Russians, and not so much. This is the bloody horror of the CIVIL (!) War. And to give the name of the Dzerzhinsky military unit, which protects the foundations of the state (mind you, completely rejecting not only the communist ideology, but also the socialist idea), and I hope that the state is now not interested in civil war, is stupidity and provocation. Aren't you funny yourself? - The internal troops defending the Russian oligarchy (let's be honest!) Have an idol - Dzerzhinsky! I agree that in the end (in the end! - mind you) the Soviet government gave Russia a fresh leap forward. But the fact that Dzerzhinsky killed Russian people, not himself, of course, but the organization led by him, killed in large numbers, is a fact. As well as the fact that he was a professional terrorist until 1917. As already mentioned here, he hated the very idea of ​​Russian statehood. And after that you happily drag him onto the banner? - This is akin to the fact that your house was robbed, valuables were taken out, but smelly socks from a century ago were dropped along the way. But instead of looking for or buying something really valuable and necessary, you proudly bring these socks back: Wear it, son! Patriotism is patriotism, but you have to have a cold head. By the way, about the head, this is just from the words of Dzerzhinsky :))
          1. bistrov.
            bistrov. 22 September 2014 22: 43
            0
            Quote: andrew42
            andrew42

            In my opinion, you got confused in patriotism, Russian statehood and not only. And what, in your opinion, the enemies of the revolution did not need to be punished, even though they were Russians? They also felt sorry for the Russians? Let them do what they wanted, and they would have turned around, not doubt if it were not for this "punishing sword." Why do the kulaks of "Solovki"? They are great guys, they are also Russian people, though they utterly robbed their fellow villagers, also Russian people, for example, half of the village owed a local kulak, nicknamed "Gorbach" ( village where I was later born), who twisted them as he wanted, can you still regret the landowner? True, he was not a Russian, a German, Schoenig by his last name, but he lived in a stone house, similar to a palace, around the same stone outbuildings (later there was a collective farm pig farm), a beautiful garden of 20 hectares, a pond with a bathhouse, etc., I don’t know how much about the land was, I will not lie, but a lot. I rented out to landless peasants. I probably built everything myself, by my own labor. Do you really think that he would voluntarily give up this grace? Okay, let's go back to 90 years old, why did they dismantle the monument to Dzerzhinsky? Yes, they were afraid of him like fire, even a monument. Those who destroyed the USSR, and then reigned on its ruins. They tried to erase even the memory of him. Suddenly there is a similar Dzerzhinsky and starts swinging the "sword"? It won't seem a little, the main thing is for what. I didn't find it, but it's a pity. And you tell me about the "Russian world".
            1. andrew42
              andrew42 23 September 2014 09: 08
              0
              No, you seem to be entangled in patriotism. I am not at all delighted with the current "system" in Russia, and I will honestly say that since 1996 I have been regularly voting for the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, although I have never been a communist. But a person who is a symbol of the civil war in Russia, a terrorist (no matter which side) will never become a role model for me. To listen to you, and now you are not against organizing a squabble against the "landlords", and at the same time those who come to hand. At whose expense will the banquet be held? Will you personally be responsible for a new civil war? Maybe we have a state-forming ethnos dofiga? Maybe we are not pressed from all borders? Maybe you with the same "romantics" are able to take power without blood and establish a "just order" now? If not, then there is nothing to declare. It is necessary to work on the issue, and not to pull out shadows of dubious quality from the afterlife.
              1. Zlata
                Zlata 26 September 2014 20: 23
                0
                Quote: andrew42
                ............ But the man-symbol of the civil war in Russia, the performer of terror (no matter which side) will never become a role model for me. ..............


                I agree.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Tanechka-clever
            Tanechka-clever 22 September 2014 23: 22
            0
            Quote: andrew42
            Ek brings you on the turns.


            That brother brings you. Looks like I have not watched the news for a long time - go and see what the American terrorist organization and the Maydan punitive in the Donbass are doing - and this is what Europe calls DEMOCRACY.

            It is understandable that it is easier for someone like you to roll from a "hill" than to climb a hill.
            And you can’t forbid someone else’s brain to live.

            Today in Europe, a Soviet soldier who was dying in the fields of a battle in the World War is no longer a hero and his Holocaust has occupied his pedestal.
            Our "traitor democrats" rewrote our history according to American training manuals, and you are giving in to us.
          4. Zlata
            Zlata 23 September 2014 02: 10
            +1
            Quote: andrew42
            ........... But the fact that Dzerzhinsky killed Russian people, not of course himself, but the organization he led, killed in large numbers, is a fact. Like the fact that he was a professional terrorist until 1917. As already said here, he hated the very idea of ​​Russian statehood. And after that, you joyfully drag him to the banner? “It is akin to robbing your house, taking out valuable things, but dropping smelly socks a hundred years ago along the way.” But instead of searching for or purchasing truly valuable and necessary, you proudly bring these socks back: Wear it, son! Patriotism is patriotism, but one must have a cold head. By the way, about the head, this is just from the words of Dzerzhinsky :))

            I agree, some kind of militant masochism turns out))
        2. STALGRAD76
          STALGRAD76 22 September 2014 22: 46
          +3
          For some reason, most people reading novels about those years are touched by the balls and culture of people who are not poor, but in reality you yourself would be who you were at the beginning of the twentieth century, a brave officer, or a prosperous landowner, or maybe a powerless worker or a peasant, a cheap prostitute ? Liberals in all years have been the yoke of progress and society as a whole! Do you want to erase in our memory the names of people who gave their lives for a common cause? Everything is back to square one .....
        3. Zlata
          Zlata 23 September 2014 02: 35
          +3
          Quote: bistrov.

          And what, you justify all ......... priests who for centuries have disfigured the consciousness of people with some kind of "God",

          Yes, you are a terrible person, sir. You know, there are people whom only one thing holds back from crime - fear of God. With the destruction of churches in Russia, a bloody meat grinder began. The church supports moral principles, and even those who do not believe this. And the Communists mutilated their consciousness with their dogmas, until now, I see, people are zombie, they write such nonsense sometimes, they distort history as they like, crawl in front of punishers and tyrants, spit on real heroes.
          1. bistrov.
            bistrov. 23 September 2014 09: 07
            +2
            Eh, madam "Zlata"! And you go there. Well, look, look around! What "God"? Where is he? After all, we live in the 21st century. And probably you have a higher education. What should I do with you theological discussions here? They regretted the popov? Let them take off their robes, take shovels in their hands and go earn their "bread". And then they settled well! They fool the heads of gullible people, but they themselves live well at the expense of them without working, without creating any material and intellectual values. The taxi was established: christening - so much; wedding - so much, funeral service - so much. How many churches? Why are there so many? Catching human "souls"? It would be better if they built houses with this money, for people, there is nowhere to live. Of course, there is no need to destroy churches, if they are of architectural value, let people admire, because among them there are real masterpieces, and the rest can be adapted for clubs, cinemas, gyms , all people benefit. As for the bloody meat grinder, have you even studied history at school? How many people were destroyed by the Catholic Church? Burned at the stake! Incidentally, the Orthodox Church "sinned" with this. And this has been going on for centuries! And the crusades? They, of course, were started solely out of philanthropy. Good church "morality"! We can, but others cannot! Where was your God? Quietly watched this? Then, I will "I will repay" you! Exceptional composure! And most importantly, what a comfortable position: - "I love you all, but I won't let you eat, die of hunger in poverty, But you will be in paradise" Well, how many got to this paradise? Heresy, say? May be! But the truth! How did the communists disfigure the consciousness? The communists, then, have "dogmas", but the church has no "dogmas." Well, you are not a three-year-old child, open your eyes!
            1. innoker-1563
              innoker-1563 23 September 2014 11: 01
              0
              Well said! I join and +!
          2. Tanechka-clever
            Tanechka-clever 23 September 2014 21: 01
            +1
            Quote: Zlata
            Yes, you are a terrible person, sir. You know, there are people whom only one thing holds back from crime - fear of God.


            And you know madam, I read your comments here and I can tell you that you are very dangerous even to yourself. Although I can assume that you are a "sent messenger" - I translate "troll".
            Today, Obama puts his hand on the Bible and inhumanly bombing peaceful cities - hundreds and thousands of old people and children are dying. He admits this and apologizes.
            Do Not Remember GOD in Suah
            1. Zlata
              Zlata 23 September 2014 22: 43
              0
              Quote: Tanya-umunechka


              And you know madam, I read your comments here and I can tell you that you are very dangerous even to yourself. Although I can assume that you are a "sent messenger" - I translate "troll".
              Today, Obama puts his hand on the Bible and inhumanly bombing peaceful cities - hundreds and thousands of old people and children are dying. He admits this and apologizes.
              Do Not Remember GOD in Suah


              Sorry, I didn't really understand why I am "very dangerous even to myself." And why am I a troll -? And others, of course not -? Especially here one comrade, obviously from the Communist Party, breaks away, actively throwing mud at opponents and bringing some crazy statistical layouts "from the ceiling" - here he is - not a troll -?
              And what difference does it make whether Obama puts his hand on the Bible or not, he can position himself as he pleases, but this will not fool anyone, because "you will recognize them by their WORKS."
          3. Tanechka-clever
            Tanechka-clever 23 September 2014 21: 01
            0
            Quote: Zlata
            Yes, you are a terrible person, sir. You know, there are people whom only one thing holds back from crime - fear of God.


            And you know madam, I read your comments here and I can tell you that you are very dangerous even to yourself. Although I can assume that you are a "sent messenger" - I translate "troll".
            Today, Obama puts his hand on the Bible and inhumanly bombing peaceful cities - hundreds and thousands of old people and children are dying. He admits this and apologizes.
            Do Not Remember GOD in Suah
      2. Zlata
        Zlata 23 September 2014 02: 56
        +5
        Agree with you. Very well said. And the October Revolution is precisely the ANTIRUSSIAN project. And the lack of a coherent assessment of this event, duality in assessments, mumbled, hiding facts - just into the hands of the comrades from the Communist Party, who, as I understand it, sleep and see in order to regain their former power, and dream of throwing Putin no less than the cursed liberals ... And they don't need thinking people, knowing people. They need idols, ideals, and crowds of zombies who follow these ideals with shouts of "Hurray!"
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Tanechka-clever
          Tanechka-clever 24 September 2014 11: 44
          0
          Quote: Zlata
          And the October Revolution is precisely the ANTI-RUSSIAN project.


          But I agree with you not going to. And you said badly - I did not like it.
          It’s time to give a clear assessment of US crimes to the UN. Their duality in approaches to solving their geopolitical problems is known. And also their mumble like Psaki and in the UN, concealment of the facts of American criminal activity in the world - all this is exactly in the hands of the gentlemen from the State Department.

          And the Maidan paid by the State Department in Kiev and the march of "traitors and scoundrels" on 21.09.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX in Moscow, as well as your statements - only confirm that the ENEMY of RUSSIA is not asleep ... and at his "combat" post as a traitor.

          By the way, the march of "villains" on 21.09.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX showed that they, present at the march, did not hide that they did not like Putin as the popularly elected president. Malice overwhelmed all acceptable decency - for which they received public censure from the masses. The march showed - that there is still room for people like Nemtsov, Yashin and others to fall - the State Department will pay in the same way as it pays for the American terrorist operation in Donbass today.

          You probably dream about the ATO in Russia - it won’t work out ... you can drown in impotent rage ... The people today are with PUTIN ...

          These are representatives of Yabloko, Parnas were on the march, but the Communist Party was not there. The Communist Party of the Russian Federation actively cooperates with the President of Russia without looking back at the State Department, like Nemtsov, Navalny, Makarevich - and other "liberal" rubbish, which have long turned into zombies, because they do not need the ideals of the Russian and Russian people, and their chants on the march cause nausea. .. what a person with higher education can reach.

          Higher education is not yet the intelligentsia, but education ..
          So you better shout "Hurray" than what you shouted on this march.

          The Great October Revolution is the property of the Russian people. But the Russian people let in their home - enemies in the form of "American exceptionalism." They entered as friends under the guise of "for democracy and human rights." They outraged the people's memory and dishonored Russia - and the fruits are on the face. The collapse of the USSR and hatred between peoples - the successes of this "friendship" are in plain sight. Gorbachev will be cursed by the people ...
          1. Zlata
            Zlata 26 September 2014 00: 15
            +1
            Quote: Tanya-umunechka
            ........................


            You probably dream about the ATO in Russia - it won’t work out ... you can drown in impotent rage ... The people today are with PUTIN ...

            These are representatives of Yabloko, Parnas were on the march, but the Communist Party was not there. The Communist Party of the Russian Federation actively cooperates with the President of Russia without looking back at the State Department, like Nemtsov, Navalny, Makarevich - and other "liberal" rubbish, which have long turned into zombies, because they do not need the ideals of the Russian and Russian people, and their chants on the march cause nausea. .. what a person with higher education can reach. ....................



            Listen, WHAT BURNING did you decide that I am against Putin, I dream of ATO (you probably meant the Maidan?) In Russia -? And, by the way, I'm not a fan of Makarevich (I didn't like him before), Navalny and Nemtsov. This is just in case. And then you will also say that I am from "Echo of Moscow".
            1. Tanechka-clever
              Tanechka-clever 26 September 2014 21: 15
              0
              Quote: Zlata
              FROM WHICH MISCELLANEOUS You decided that I am against Putin


              And you Pretty ... it turns out .... nice ...
              I'll get down to business. And the fact is that you can position yourself as you like - but to show disrespect for the HISTORY of your country is always to play on the side of Navalny, Nemtsov, Makarevich, Echo of Moscow, who are working on an order from the State Department and have long ago rewrote the history of Russia.
              This is the State Department through such people as Pozner and Svanidze told us our NEW story after 1917, in order to first humiliate YOU and me, taking away our heroic past with YOU, and now veterans are forbidden in Georgia, and German fascists are liberators in the Baltic states . And in Ukraine - the monuments to Soviet heroes-liberators are being destroyed. In order to deprive the people of the future, the past must be taken away from him ..... This is what I just told you just in case .... maybe it will come in handy.
    2. fktrcfylhn61
      fktrcfylhn61 22 September 2014 17: 43
      +1
      Not Russian people, but rotten corrupt intelligentsia, such as Makaravich, and the like!
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. 97110
      97110 22 September 2014 17: 47
      +4
      Quote: Orik
      His hands are up to the elbow in the blood of Russian people.
      And Kolchak's legs are balls-deep? Today the most important task is to deprive us of history. Have you signed up to do this? Who doesn't have Russian blood on their hands: Ivan 4, Peter 1, Catherine 2, Saint Nicholas (nee Bloody)? What are we left with? With a story ... what? My children and household members made me watch "The Magnificent Age". Why can the Turks shoot a series about their certainly not bloodless and rather dirty dynasty, carefully and tactfully? They, too, relatively recently, Ataturk carried out his revolution, and now there is something to make noise about. And we definitely need to roll in the muck, Great Russians, EPT.
    5. Nyrobsky
      Nyrobsky 22 September 2014 18: 08
      +5
      Quote: Orik
      Why is everyone so overexcited? This "man" together with Bronstein-Trotsky carried out the Red Terror. He has Russian blood on his hands.

      EPRST - yes, over the years of EBNa reforms - Russia has lost more people without a war than during the years of the "Dzerzhinsky terror" that eliminated banditry and child homelessness. During the restructuring and liberalization of the market alone abandoned and extinct villages, up to 70 thousand. In the dashing 90s, one child homelessness was up to 1,5 million. Felix Edmundovich is a great man! It is necessary to return the monument to the Lubyanka - definitely.
      1. andrew42
        andrew42 22 September 2014 20: 03
        +10
        Yes, we still slurp the consequences of 1917, the old rake hangs on the wall. Have you ever thought about the fact that 1991-93 was organized by the spiritual and genetic heirs of those who arranged 1917? Arranged because they were shallow from the cashier in the 30s / 40s. - And it's time to think. And the color of the flag and the slogans for such figures do not matter. It will be profitable - there will be red flags, profitable - it will be "for the free market and European integration", profitable - it will be for the "revival of the monarchy." Classics of the genre - Yegor Gaidar, be remembered not by nightfall. There are a lot of such "permanent revolutionaries" now in Nezalezhnaya. Don't like 1917 -? Okay, study the recent history of Ukraine. They promise everything to everyone. Gold toilets for the people! But in reality - to get hold of new assets, even through people's blood and the sale of their country. before yelling Hurray !, you need to think a little with your head, otherwise the Shvonders will always steer through the Sharikovs.
    6. Zlata
      Zlata 23 September 2014 02: 38
      +1
      Quote: Orik
      Why is everyone so overexcited? This "man" together with Bronstein-Trotsky carried out the Red Terror. He has Russian blood on his hands.

      It’s a pity that I can’t put you a thousand pluses. I totally agree.
    7. I am
      I am 25 September 2014 13: 41
      -1
      Dzerzhinsky Felix Edmundovich (1877-1926), revolutionary, Soviet statesman, first chairman of the Cheka (since December 1917).



      Born on September 11, 1877 in the Dzerzhinovo estate (Stolbtsovsky district of the Minsk province; now Belarus) in a deeply religious Polish noble family. He spent his childhood in a family estate near Vilnius (now Vilnius). He decided to become a priest, but his uncle-priests dissuaded him from accepting the dignity.

      In 1884, Dzerzhinsky first became acquainted with the ideas of Marxism by joining the Social Democratic circle of the Vilnius Gymnasium. A year later he left school and devoted himself completely to revolutionary work.

      For 20 years, the life of Dzerzhinsky is arrests, prisons, exile, escapes. He was sentenced to death several times. In 1906 he illegally traveled to Stockholm, where the RSDLP congress was held; there he first met with V.I. Lenin.

      In 1917, during the February Revolution, together with other political prisoners, he was released from the Butyrka prison in Moscow.

      In August 1917, Mr .. became a member of the Central Committee of the RSDLP (b), became a member of the Revolutionary Committee for the preparation of an armed uprising. He took an active part in the Great October Socialist Revolution.

      December 17, 1917 was appointed chairman of the Cheka. An adamant and tough fighter with any counter-revolution,
      In the 20s. Dzerzhinsky headed the People’s Commissariat of Railways, was chairman of the Commission for Combating Homelessness, and in 1924 became chairman of the Supreme Economic Council.

      He died suddenly on July 20, 1926 in Moscow after participating in the plenum of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks.

      Dzerzhinsky went down in the history of Russia as the “Iron Felix”, “the knight of the revolution is an uncompromising fighter for Bolshevik ideas.”
  15. Kuvabatake
    Kuvabatake 22 September 2014 17: 03
    +7
    I repeat, but how do we current can label the state. figures? This black, and this white ... It doesn’t. We did not live then and do not know 100% what and how it was, and most importantly why. And so, he said everything from the category, and they thought.
    1. andrew42
      andrew42 22 September 2014 20: 12
      -5
      And no one hangs up labels. We are the descendants of people of those times, and we have the opportunity to more or less impartially judge "by fruits." And they are even obliged to do it, competently and carefully, without throwing themselves out of the fire into the fire. 50 years will pass, they will judge us. This is normal. Monument to Dzerzhinsky at Lubyanka - to restore. This is a historical figure. And to give his name to the BB division is utter nonsense and cheap PR is not clear in the name of what.
  16. axay032
    axay032 22 September 2014 17: 05
    +2
    Quote: ispaniard
    Civilian, well, at the expense of the last two, you seem to have gone too far ...
    Quote: Civil
    EP in the Communist Party! FSIN-GULAG!

    We do not call the Opposition - "Slaves of Hamon" ...

    P.S. I wonder when the monument to "Iron Felix" will be returned to the Lubyanka, what will happen to the opposition then?)))


    Enough of their candrats
    1. Sergey Vl.
      Sergey Vl. 22 September 2014 17: 35
      +1
      I wonder what they are feeding these commentators from "Echo of Moscow" besides Russophobia? F.E.Dzerzhinsky was still the people's commissar of railways and defeated the homelessness of children. Not enough for one human life.
  17. Signaller
    Signaller 22 September 2014 17: 06
    +13
    Napoleon Bonaparte also did a lot of bad things for Russia and the whole world, all one and monuments are standing and France honors him. So is Iron Felix. He also did a lot of bad things (just look), but you can be respected for your iron will and perseverance in the construction of Soviet Russia. And the monument, dusty on the Crimean embankment, I think, too, must be put in place. RESPECTED MAN. Let it be an example for all young people how to live. Personal opinion.
  18. Romass
    Romass 22 September 2014 17: 06
    +5
    Who cares about Russian affairs? Glory to Russia ! Glory to Putin, our president!
  19. Kazakh
    Kazakh 22 September 2014 17: 07
    +6
    And what exactly did the division disgrace its name with that it cannot be returned? Maybe, for the sake of the liberals, can they name its right sector or the name of the Virgin Mary as in Ukrainian?
    1. fktrcfylhn61
      fktrcfylhn61 22 September 2014 17: 38
      +2
      Yes, for the Lezberast already have their own, which are jumping, like a lash! Let them go down there !!!
    2. andrew42
      andrew42 22 September 2014 17: 47
      +5
      What does the feat of the division and the personality of Dzerzhinsky have to do with it? And if the division were, for example, named after Aleksanr Nevsky, what would its soldiers have performed less worthy feats? It so happens that the good is done in spite of the intended bad. The history of the USSR is a clear confirmation of this. From the 17th year, when they were shot simply for being "Russian", to the 70s of the Brezhnevites' reign - the earth and the sky. And Stalingrad was added here in vain. This is the name of a hero city, a symbol of Russian glory, which lives a completely separate life from the symbol of the leader Joseph Stalin. On the other hand, what kind of symbol is this - "Division named after Dzerzhinsky"? Do not equate with the symbol of Stalingrad. The symbolism of the latter is several orders of magnitude higher. Immeasurably higher, I would say. It turns out that we raise the corrected mistakes of history, negative experience to the rank of Tradition! It was because of such emasculated "traditions" that the Soviet system fell into tar-tarars.
      1. sergio6769
        sergio6769 22 September 2014 18: 06
        0
        I generally thought that she was always named after Dzerzhinsky ... turns out until the 94th ...
  20. RusDV
    RusDV 22 September 2014 17: 14
    +7
    How many liberals jumped from the roof?

    it’s hard to say .... many jumped and not all voluntarily ... laughing
  21. Mig 31
    Mig 31 22 September 2014 17: 16
    +4
    "Worms" - the medicine started to work!
  22. Alexander 1958
    Alexander 1958 22 September 2014 17: 17
    +6
    Liberals jumped from the roof? Surround! Give at least one example from history when liberals ended up with suicide as a result of despair .. This is the lot of the strong! This Akhromeev could have shot himself, but these can only die naturally or from an accident. At least we ran to the ROOF to demand an increase in risk, and as a maximum they brought statements to the EP, and even checked the safety of their party cards to the CPSU member.
  23. tnk1969
    tnk1969 22 September 2014 17: 20
    +6
    At one time, during the Great Patriotic War, the ranks of the guards were returned to the troops. Although the guard in the Red Army and the Bolshevik ideology (not to be confused with the communist) had their very negative attitude as the defenders of tsarism and autocracy, as the personal pillar of their power and the power of the aristocracy and the nobility. But they tried to forget about this attitude and remember the Guard as Defenders of the Fatherland. So why now should Russians be against restoring the name of Dzerzhinsky? After all, he was still a Person. Yes, in someone's eyes he was the Punisher, but in the eyes of others he was the Protector. One thing to remember. He will remain in the History of Russia as a Person. As well as Menshikov, Orlov, Potemkin, Arakcheev, Benkendorf, Laurel Kornilov and Kolchak.
    1. Zlata
      Zlata 23 September 2014 01: 55
      +1
      Quote: tnk1969
      ........... So why now should the Russians be against the restoration of the name of Dzerzhinsky? After all, he was still a Person. Yes, in someone's eyes he was the Punisher, but in the eyes of others he was the Protector. ............


      Please answer honestly - if your loved one - wife, mother, child - is physically destroyed by some very famous person - this same person - will she remain in your eyes a Person with a capital letter? Are you sure that you will not rush then on the admirers of this very person who reverently call her the Protector?

      Let's call everything by their proper names. The punisher and the protector are incompatible things. And there is absolutely no need to whitewash punishers.
      1. Tanechka-clever
        Tanechka-clever 24 September 2014 16: 40
        0
        Quote: Zlata
        if your loved one - wife, mother, child -


        You ask this question at the UN. Today, the murder by the US army of a "wife, mother, child" is perceived by the UN as the highest form of democracy and is already an ordinary daily routine imposed on Ukraine today.
        And in the Baltics, the "forest brothers" or Bandera's in Ukraine, who brutally killed entire families with small children, are now recognized as national heroes. They did not protect anyone in battles, but only were killers.

        But not everyone with such "heroes" along the way.

        Our Soviet people's HEROES were defenders and RELEASERS, on whom the whole world had hoped in a world war. And today this world has slipped back to fascism and now American, but the Soviet people are gone and HUMANITY is on the verge of madness. Everyone knows how to play fascism, but not everyone is capable of being a REAL MAN. All lovers ride the hill, but not everyone wants to pull heavy sledges and are looking for fools or PRESENT MAN.
        1. Zlata
          Zlata 26 September 2014 01: 18
          0
          A classic example of demagoguery and departure from the main topic. Excuse me.
          1. Tanechka-clever
            Tanechka-clever 26 September 2014 20: 53
            0
            Quote: Zlata
            avoiding the main topic

            A classic example is when there is no answer. Then the question - answer the question.

            By the way, I have nothing to excuse you for - you must admit that you did not offend or offend me.
            1. Zlata
              Zlata 26 September 2014 21: 38
              0
              Quote: Tanya-umunechka


              By the way, I have nothing to excuse you for - you must admit that you did not offend or offend me.


              That's great. I didn’t want to offend.
        2. Zlata
          Zlata 26 September 2014 21: 36
          0
          Quote: Tanya-umunechka
          ...........
          And in the Baltics, the "forest brothers" or the Bandera in Ukraine, who brutally murdered entire families with small children, are now recognized as national heroes. ..............


          By the way, here you are writing. That's right, in Ukraine, punishers are recognized as national heroes. This causes a fair outrage among the Russians. So maybe we, the Russian people, should not be likened to the idiots who glorify monsters like Bandera? Maybe you should not put on the podium the people who carried out MASS TERROR in their own country?
          1. Cynic
            Cynic 27 September 2014 11: 59
            0
            Quote: Zlata
            Maybe you should not put on the podium the people who carried out MASS TERROR in their own country?

            Or maybe at first he did not need to touch the monument, and there would be no topic.
            Coming to a pedestal, everyone would tell their own vision of history, and attempts to abandon their history of nm have never led to anything good.
            And then one on one with 20.
            Not done by us, not us _
  24. Major Yurik
    Major Yurik 22 September 2014 17: 20
    +5
    Quote: Ratmir
    Liberators add ... They wouldn’t piss, they wouldn’t be so hysterical ... In general, they are already afraid of the poor fellow.


    Gee-s! How many years the name of Felix Edmundovich, for liberals, is the best remedy for constipation! Do not be afraid, point traders, bed bugs do not crush!bully
  25. Mama_Cholli
    Mama_Cholli 22 September 2014 17: 21
    0
    You can name the unit as you like ... The essence of this will not change. In real Russia, the division of the Ministry of Internal Affairs provides mainly the security of citizens with dual citizenship, owning 95% of the country's wealth and having residence permits for their children in London and Paris. Maybe I'm wrong (I would like to believe in it), but history will show (tfu, tfu, tfu) ...
    1. Sour
      Sour 22 September 2014 17: 37
      +4
      Quote: Mama_Cholli
      In real Russia, the division of the Ministry of Internal Affairs provides mainly the security of citizens with dual citizenship, owning 95% of the country's wealth and having views of their children in London and Paris

      In real Russia? Was it different in the USSR?
      Brezhnev did not have dual citizenship (neither Putin nor Medvedev have it), but his son and his daughter have been abroad more often than at home. Brezhnev's son regularly flew hunting in Australia and Africa. The post of deputy minister of foreign trade allowed him to live well, by any measure. Andropov set up his son as an ambassador, also quite well. So in real Russia, little has changed in this regard. Talk about the "proximity to the people" of the Soviet elite to those who are not in the subject.
      1. Mama_Cholli
        Mama_Cholli 22 September 2014 17: 43
        0
        I do not argue, but right now this is especially noticeable. In addition, many, such as Kryuchkov (ex-KGB chairman), after their death, left their relatives only a plot of 6 acres with a small house. So that...
        1. Sour
          Sour 22 September 2014 17: 54
          -3
          Quote: Mama_Cholli
          but now it’s especially noticeable.

          Now this is especially noticeable, because there is relative freedom of the media plus the Internet. But in the USSR this was less noticeable, because truthful information did not arrive from above, but leaked out, drop by drop.
          Now those in power live well, but they do not limit all others. The ceiling is not measured, you can earn a lot - earn money, the flag is in your hands. And then the top was bathed in luxury, had no less than the current top, and the people set the bar of income, above which you can’t jump under the law. The gulf between the people and the authorities was then many times deeper than now. Now there is at least some middle layer. And then there were only fattening leaders and a robbed people.
          1. Mama_Cholli
            Mama_Cholli 22 September 2014 18: 02
            +1
            You got black and white. Rather, it is today a robbed people.
          2. Passer
            Passer 23 September 2014 00: 49
            +3
            Quote: Sour
            And then there were only fattening leaders and a robbed people.

            Something after privatization, inflation and other democratization, this is no longer believed.
            Quote: Sour
            The gulf between the people and the authorities was then many times deeper than now.

            No need to tell democratic tales.
            My aunt, a deputy of the Moscow City Council, lived in a communal apartment until the end of the 80s. The grandfather’s brother, the second secretary of one of the regional committees, with his wife and two children lived in a three-ruble apartment, in a nine-story panel building (he lives there now, God bless him), he was distinguished from ordinary mortals by an official Volga and a really irregular working day. These are just a couple of examples.
            Of course, there was also enough graffiti, but mostly from trade.
            Quote: andrew42
            You still remember about the "Kremlin rations".

            I remembered. At the present time - one (well, a maximum of two) going to the supermarket, nothing special, except that the boxes and jars are imported.
            1. Bayonet
              Bayonet 23 September 2014 09: 20
              0
              Quote: Passer
              nothing special, except that the boxes and jars are imported.

              Overseas havchik dabbled in, servants of the people! And his sprat will come down in tomato. And about 1 or 2 trips to the supermarket - tales for suckers! My acquaintance instructor was in the regional committee of the Komsomol, so that as they walked and lived on I was in the know.
              1. Passer
                Passer 23 September 2014 18: 54
                0
                Quote: Bayonet
                My acquaintance, an instructor, was in the regional committee of the Komsomol, so I know how they guled and fattened.

                I repeat: grabbers, then, too, was enough. At present, their number is clearly not decreasing.
                Quote: Bayonet
                And about 1 or 2 trips to the supermarket - tales for suckers!

                I can’t say for the Komsomol - I don’t know. And once a month, a VAZ-2104 car of burgundy color (less often GAZ-24-02) came and unloaded a miracle box, and in it: a can of coffee, several cans of canned meat and fish, cereals, a can of margarine, milk powder, soap Ryling, well, and something else on the little things. The only difference from the store is European (mainly German) origin. On holidays, the set increased, but there was nothing supernatural there. Until the 85th year, when stores began to rapidly empty, these weather sets did not, then - yes.
                I admit that someone snatched more, but I was not familiar with them.
              2. The comment was deleted.
          3. tantalum
            tantalum 23 September 2014 02: 35
            +1
            Quote: Sour
            The gulf between the people and the authorities was then many times deeper than now.
            That is, between roughly a thousand government officials who have approximately what any small "business man" now has and 260 million citizens of the USSR, the gap was many times deeper than now? And you are much more satisfied with the fact that people are now being robbed by a bunch of oligarchs and a myriad of managers (this is the shit that makes up the MAINLY middle class)?
            Quote: Sour
            And then there were only fattening leaders and a robbed people.
            It seems that you are just a toad strangling that then people like you were not allowed to rob.
      2. andrew42
        andrew42 22 September 2014 20: 28
        +4
        Neighed heartily. That is, as the secretary general, you would not arrange your son as an ambassador? - I'm not Stanislavsky, but I DON'T BELIEVE either !!! :) Besides, if my son is not. In general, what kind of reduction to everyday life, and digging in real underwear? You still remember about the "Kremlin rations". Yes, I would buy those rations for a couple of party functionaries myself! They were children in comparison with the current loot-sucking "elite".
        1. Mama_Cholli
          Mama_Cholli 22 September 2014 23: 48
          0
          As I understand it all, the author of attacks on everything Soviet above my post? smile
        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. sergio6769
      sergio6769 22 September 2014 18: 08
      +3
      why do you think so??? operational parts do oligarchs guard ???? request
      1. Mama_Cholli
        Mama_Cholli 22 September 2014 18: 12
        -5
        With a mess, they will ... And I think from the people and they will protect ...
        example Hohlyandiya, who pays the money and dances, but on ordinary people, everyone spits. Even then the army is hiding behind "duty and oath." As a result, only the salary, which is not paid to them by miners.
      2. Sour
        Sour 22 September 2014 18: 16
        +1
        Quote: sergio6769
        operational parts do oligarchs guard ????

        The man got a BB with someone's bodyguards. It happens. Never mind.
        Quote: Mama_Cholli
        Rather, it is today a robbed people.

        Now I do not even compare the standard of living with that time. Personally, I didn’t expect in the 70-80s that I could someday live as I live now. I thought that I would die in a multi-meter line for a can of canned fish.
        You are not a Muscovite, by any chance? I'm a Russian provincial. I will not forget the shortage of everything and everyone, including the necessary. And I'll tell my grandchildren about him. For those who grew up in Moscow (or in the Ukraine, the Baltic states, Moldova, Georgia) it is difficult to understand the Soviet Russian. This life touched you only with "perestroika", but we always had it. And damn it, this life. An aspen stake to the one who invented it.
        1. Mama_Cholli
          Mama_Cholli 22 September 2014 18: 58
          +4
          Respected. I would ask you not to comment on me.
          (in the sense that it seems to me / thinks) I myself will unsubscribe and explain if something happens, if it is not clear to anyone ...
          In our last conversation I also wanted to ask where this hatred for everything Soviet came from. Where does your word "komunyaki" come from (more precisely, the word deeply disrespected by me Mrs. Novodvorskaya)? Yes, we lived in different worlds, you plowed and we rested in Moscow. Just how, excuse me, did you (the former tractor driver) manage to change your life for a decent life? The dashing 90s helped, or did something worthwhile, for which the Fatherland thanked you. Or have you got your own candle factory for the occasion? Although this is hardly ... I understand that the current system suits you completely. Your hatred is understandable. (The damned inhabitants of Moscow have sucked all the juices out of you). Just keep in mind that I was born in my city, and did not come to it because of a better life, as many did. And my parents also lived here, and grandfathers and grandmothers. Your attitude to us, frankly speaking, is not much different from the attitude of the new Ukrainians to the Russians. The first time they call me Russian, because I am from Moscow. I advise you not to instill anger (the same as yours) in your children, or even so our city is already flooded with people about whom even their fellow countrymen cannot say anything good.
          pisi:
          By the way, nickname is successfully chosen by you.
  26. albi77
    albi77 22 September 2014 17: 22
    +3
    Take this echo and throw it all ...
    they have already weary of their hai.
  27. Midshipman
    Midshipman 22 September 2014 17: 25
    +2
    To the Novodvorskaya landfill
  28. argon
    argon 22 September 2014 17: 25
    +3
    Quote: Civil
    Faithful dear comrades! Samara back to Kuibyshev, Chelny to Brezhnev!
    1. I ask the competent comrades to record and record in the protocol who will overshadow our progressive initiatives.
    2. Disagree with our initiatives within 3 days to appear at the appropriate address with things.


    Funny !!
  29. sever.56
    sever.56 22 September 2014 17: 28
    +2
    Quote: RUSS
    to please everyone

    This is not to please anyone. The historical name with which the division fought valiantly on the fronts of the Great Patriotic War simply returns.
  30. JonnyT
    JonnyT 22 September 2014 17: 29
    +4
    obvious hint - guys, stop harming the homeland, otherwise we will destroy it as a social class. I hope many will perceive this information correctly and renounce work on a foreign aggressor
  31. muginov2015
    muginov2015 22 September 2014 17: 29
    +1
    Oh, how you ran into here! ... guardians, bl. But no one wants to think with his head. And if you think about it, then the following comes out. and veterans, they offer a lot of things. For example, to raise pensions, to increase social programs. And the smart uncles at the top supported only one initiative - to rename. And the goal is what seems to be a noble; continuity, historical justice, and so on, blabel. Only, it seems to me, the goals of such decisions are the same - to knock society head-ons, to distract from real problems such as inflation, impoverishment of the population, questions such as who is to blame, in general, a classic example of "divide and rule" I would not be surprised if the decision was supported by those whom we we call liberals and the fifth kolonnaya.i now, giggling and winking, they are shaking side-by-side in front of the marmot, like here we have muddied up another gruel for cattle, let them go on fart steam, and we’re doing our business for now.

    pysy. Judging by the amount of fart steam, they periodically succeed.
    1. Mama_Cholli
      Mama_Cholli 22 September 2014 17: 36
      -7
      And there is. They threw a brain bone to the patriots, but they didn’t remember the people again ...
    2. andrew42
      andrew42 22 September 2014 17: 49
      -2
      PLUS unambiguous Very correct formulation of the question.
  32. Nitarius
    Nitarius 22 September 2014 17: 36
    0
    learn the story .. Felix was very literate! and if you delve deeper ... then STALIN's nephew Nicholas 2
  33. qQQQ
    qQQQ 22 September 2014 17: 37
    +3
    For me, it would be so returning Stalingrad and Leningrad as a monument to unparalleled courage, stamina, heroism, who died during the Second World War.
    1. Zlata
      Zlata 23 September 2014 01: 38
      -1
      Quote: qqqq
      For me, it would be so returning Stalingrad and Leningrad as a monument to unparalleled courage, stamina, heroism, who died during the Second World War.


      DO NOT. Let there be monuments to the unparalleled courage, fortitude and heroism of our people! BUT immortalizing the names of the executioners is like spitting on the graves of their victims. And the victims were massive, a real genocide. The Red Terror and Stalinist repressions claimed the lives of millions of citizens of our country. Stolen lives of innocent people. We must remember about them too. They also deserve respect and reverence, and monuments. And trying to revive such "heroes" as Lenin and Stalin, we are like the Bandera people who pray for their "hero", and at the same time many of them do not know and do not want to hear about his deeds.
    2. vassa
      vassa 24 September 2014 08: 36
      +1
      God forbid. Let there be a referendum !!!
      By the way, all the old residents of the city voted for Petersburg !!!
  34. saag
    saag 22 September 2014 17: 39
    +1
    In general, an interesting story with VV, Putin put Zolotov, the head of his personal guard, in their head, the assumption - GDP did not really trust VV, returning the old name is such a curtsy towards VV in order to gain sympathy, IMHO
  35. Mama_Cholli
    Mama_Cholli 22 September 2014 17: 39
    +2
    How do you like the word police? Doesn't the ear cut? It seems of course until the age of 17 it was. History...
    1. saag
      saag 22 September 2014 18: 16
      +3
      Quote: Mama_Cholli
      How do you like the word police? Doesn't the ear cut?

      Cuts, policemen immediately come to mind
      1. Mama_Cholli
        Mama_Cholli 22 September 2014 19: 04
        0
        Me too. Although the police are more suitable in the current situation, as a separation barrier between the people and the authorities, rather than the police.
  36. RUSS
    RUSS 22 September 2014 17: 44
    +2
    Divisions VV MIA returned the name Dzerzhinsky. How many liberals jumped off the roof?

    I am not a liberal, but I am against the return of the monument, I am worried about another question - why and by what right are all who disagree with the "party line" automatically assigned to the various liberals there? Who are these people and who gave them the right to consider themselves truly loyal in political orientation and patriotism? Is it not those lumpen who, after the 17th, crawled out from under the fence "who was nobody" and with the slogan "who is not with us is against us" began to decide the fate of the country?
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 22 September 2014 22: 57
      +1
      Quote: RUSS
      I am not a liberal, but I am against the return of the monument,

      Maxim, God be with you, whoever you want - so be it! Just explain why you are against the return of the monument? F.E. Dzerzhinsky for me personally is a symbol of the struggle with counter, justice, honesty, masculinity, finally. Why is he, as a historical figure, not worthy of a monument for his universally recognized contribution to the strengthening of his country?
      Quote: RUSS
      Who are these people and who gave them the right to consider themselves truly faithful in political orientation and patriotism?

      These are the people that you think you got out from under the fence. And they decide as winners, by right of the mighty. Didn't you know that? And the "stratum" in a class society always rushes between the poles.
      Quote: RUSS
      Are these the lumpen who after 17 got out of the fence
      My dear, look at your roots ... You are probably from the "graphs !?" -- No? Strange! And the seal ...
      But the great Russian writers (from GRAPHYEV! By the way - Tolstoy L.N., for example) - did not allow themselves such a boorish attitude towards the people. Well, that’s understandable: they are from the counts! And you, dear?
      PS An intelligent person to whom you yourself, no doubt rank yourself, MUST write without grammatical (and preferably punctuation) errors! This is the question of who and where from our site got!
      Good luck!
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 23 September 2014 21: 38
        0
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        Quote: RUSS
        Aren't these the lumpen who, after the 17th, crawled out from under the fence. My dear, look at your roots ... You are probably from the "Counts !?" -- No? Strange! And the seal ...
        But the great Russian writers (from GRAPHYEV! By the way - Tolstoy L.N., for example) - did not allow themselves such a boorish attitude towards the people. Well, that’s understandable: they are from the counts! And you, dear?
        PS An intelligent person to whom you yourself, no doubt rank yourself, MUST write without grammatical (and preferably punctuation) errors! This is the question of who and where from our site got!
        Good luck!


        Zlata replied to you from me, read her comment "about lumpen, unemployed and Sharikov," whom I called "crawled out from under the fence."
    2. Zlata
      Zlata 23 September 2014 01: 18
      +1
      RUSS, I agree with you. I hate Echo of Moscow, but I am also against the return of the monument. By the way, by the way, about those who got out from under the fence - I remembered my grandmother's story about a village idiot, a beggar who did not work, at whom everyone laughed, and who then with PLEASURE came to take the cow from a woman with children, saying, "Now you will dance with me! " And no tears and pleas to leave the cow, because there are so many children in the family, did not help. Such is the newly-minted proletarian.
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 23 September 2014 21: 41
        0
        Quote: Zlata
        RUSS, I agree with you. I hate Echo of Moscow, but I am also against the return of the monument. By the way, by the way, about those who got out from under the fence - I remembered my grandmother's story about a village idiot, a beggar who did not work, at whom everyone laughed, and who then with PLEASURE came to take the cow from a woman with children, saying, "Now you will dance with me! " And no tears and pleas to leave the cow, because there are so many children in the family, did not help. Such is the newly-minted proletarian.


        They don't really like to talk about this here, more and more about the "red cavalry"
        1. perm23
          perm23 25 September 2014 07: 13
          0
          So what . Scum and gibberish have always been. And now there is. Who selects apartments, who creates pyramids, who collects money and doesn’t finish houses or doesn’t pay for tourist trips. Why do you need to find fault with different scumbags? Your grandmother saw one thing and the other. You know, everyone sees from his bell tower. Like a parable - by the blind we were allowed to touch the elephant but different parts - the leg, tail and trunk. And what an elephant each turned out to be. So it is here. Everything was both good and bad. And excesses. And now they’ve recently shown on TV how a family and children are being evicted into the street. I do not say who is right or wrong. Each situation has its own.
          1. Zlata
            Zlata 26 September 2014 01: 57
            0
            It's not about specific people. People are always different. It's about common signs of the times. I will give just one example: now you can find fault with the President anywhere - on the street, write various dirty tricks on the Internet. Shouting at every corner how bad life is in Russia, etc. What will you get for it - that's right - nothing. Now what happened under Stalin - for the words "and now they live better in Poland" - they shot my grandfather's brother. Some scum reported - and the man was shot. And this is far from an isolated case - one of many. Do you think this is normal - such a life?
      2. vassa
        vassa 24 September 2014 08: 38
        +1
        All the same, that Bendera put up a monument!
        1. perm23
          perm23 25 September 2014 07: 15
          0
          Here Bandera is the enemy of humanity. Do not put these names close. BUT you most likely do not understand this.
    3. Bayonet
      Bayonet 23 September 2014 09: 26
      +1
      Quote: RUSS
      Why and by what right are all those who disagree with the "party line" automatically assigned to the various liberals there?

      These are mainly people with mental disabilities. There are not many of them, so they strive to pack in packs and viciously groan everything and everyone!
  37. Djubal
    Djubal 22 September 2014 17: 44
    +3
    Quote: ispaniard
    P.S. I wonder when the monument to "Iron Felix" will be returned to the Lubyanka, what will happen to the opposition then?)))

    But nothing! It would be more interesting to return them to where they lived under Felix
    1. Mama_Cholli
      Mama_Cholli 22 September 2014 17: 59
      -4
      Quote: Djubal
      Quote: ispaniard
      P.S. I wonder when the monument to "Iron Felix" will be returned to the Lubyanka, what will happen to the opposition then?)))

      But nothing! It would be more interesting to return them to where they lived under Felix

      It would remind me of a scene from the painting "The Fifth Element" ... When Mr. Sorg stepped out of his spaceship on a tourist liner to find himself the stones that the goblins did not bring him. And I think that the words of Zorka and Felix Edmundovich were about the same - "All things need to be done by yourself" ... and simultaneously with machine gun shots ...))
  38. bubla5
    bubla5 22 September 2014 17: 45
    +2
    Even Felix return to the pedestal in place, then you look at a dozen other liberalists a heart attack will happen, maybe someone grunts, the air will be cleaner
  39. kosmos9
    kosmos9 22 September 2014 17: 47
    +1
    The right decision.
  40. Appius
    Appius 22 September 2014 17: 53
    +6
    The purpose of the division will not change from this; it has a glorious combat past. These guys have something to be proud of.
  41. andrew42
    andrew42 22 September 2014 18: 00
    +7
    I would also return the monument. Because this is History. Ugh ugly word. I must say, Chronicle of Russia. And because this is our past, you cannot erase the word from the song. But the personality of this "faithful Leninist" who guarded the very anti-Russian Council of People's Commissars is too ambiguous. He died early. You can't even pull him by the ears of Stalin. For that very well fit into the times of anti-Russian terror. It remains to be seen how Felix would have ended if he had reached the 30s. I think I would go in the same company with Tukhachevsky, Uborevich, Yakir, etc. It is quite possible that if Felix had survived, we would not have heard of Stalin. And Leiba Trotsky would have set the country on fire in the fire of world revolution. The name of Dzerzhinsky can be "given" only to that division, and only for the purpose of protecting the holy 282nd anti-Russian article of the Criminal Code. I don't see any other logic.
    1. tantalum
      tantalum 23 September 2014 02: 51
      -1
      Quote: andrew42
      I would also return the monument.
      He started well :) But how not to spoil it? :)
      Quote: andrew42
      The name of Dzerzhinsky can be "given" only to that division, and only for the purpose of protecting the holy 282nd anti-Russian article of the Criminal Code.
      1. andrew42
        andrew42 23 September 2014 08: 55
        +1
        Well, thank God. The rivalry with the use of the 282nd article did penetrate, as I understand it? Extra confirmation that until the thunder strikes, the man will not cross himself. If it’s still not clear, then I’ll explain it again: you have to be careful with the symbols, even if this is just the name of the military unit.
      2. vassa
        vassa 24 September 2014 08: 39
        +1
        Not a single Russian surname in this Russian revolution.
  42. Gardamir
    Gardamir 22 September 2014 18: 01
    +1
    Was there a rename? I didn’t even find it on the Kremlin’s website.
  43. Tyomaniator
    Tyomaniator 22 September 2014 18: 02
    0
    Quote: kod3001
    I will even help to secure the rope

    It is better to help properly soap;)
  44. midashko
    midashko 22 September 2014 18: 03
    +4
    And in Nizhny Tagil there is a corporation called "Uralvagonzavod named after F.E Dzerzhinsky", and it bears its name since the day of its foundation ...
    1. Mama_Cholli
      Mama_Cholli 22 September 2014 18: 14
      -3
      Tagil rules ... as always.
      1. Mama_Cholli
        Mama_Cholli 23 September 2014 07: 33
        0
        I see ... Humor is not perceived here ..))
  45. Havoc
    Havoc 22 September 2014 18: 11
    +8
    And the fact that Dzerzhinsky, alongside the Cheka, fought with childhood homelessness and defeated her in two years, only a monument can be erected for this, and since in 1921 you’ve noticed that he was a People’s Commissar at the same time.
  46. Bort radist
    Bort radist 22 September 2014 18: 12
    +4
    By a resolution of the Central Executive Committee of the USSR of July 3, 1931, the village of Sad-Gorod was renamed the city of Novokuznetsk. Its population exceeded 50 thousand people. On March 2, 1932, Kuznetsk and Novokuznetsk merged into one city - Novokuznetsk, which on May 5 became Stalin. (Only in 1961 the name Novokuznetsk was returned to the city).
    There is such a page in the history of the Forge. Liberals would Ah uh - fellow
  47. Alexander I
    Alexander I 22 September 2014 18: 13
    -2
    1 “Manifesto of the Communist Party” is the greatest policy document of scientific communism. "This
    a small book is worth whole volumes: all organized and struggling still lives and moves with its spirit
    the proletariat of the civilized world ”(Lenin). Written by C. Marx and F. Engels as a program
    Union of Communists, “Manifesto of the Communist Party” was first published in London in February
    1848 as a separate publication on 23 pages. In March-July 1848, the "Manifesto of the Communist Party"
    was published in the Deutsche Londoner Zeitung (German London
    newspaper"). The German text in the same 1848 was reprinted in London as a separate brochure of 30 pages, in
    which corrected some typos of the first issue and improved punctuation. This text was in
    further laid by Marx and Engels as the basis for subsequent authorized publications. In 1848 there were
    Manifesto translations were also made into a number of European languages ​​(French, Polish, Italian, Danish,
    Flemish and Swedish). The names of the authors of the “Manifesto” were not mentioned in 1848 editions; the first time they were
    listed in print in 1850 when the first English translation was published on the Red Republican chart organ
    (“The Red Republican”) in a preface written by J. Garney, editor of the journal.
    In 1872, a new German edition of the Manifesto was issued with minor copyright amendments and with
    foreword by Marx and Engels. This publication, as well as subsequent German editions of 1883 and 1890, came under
    The title is "Communist Manifesto."
    The first Russian edition of the "Manifesto of the Communist Party" was published in 1869 in Geneva in translation
    Bakunin, who in a number of places distorted the contents of the “Manifesto”. The flaws of the first edition were addressed in
    edition published in Geneva in 1882 in the translation of Plekhanov. Plekhanovsky translation marked the beginning of a broad
    disseminating the ideas of the Manifesto in Russia. Attaching great importance to the propaganda of Marxism in Russia,
    Marx and Engels wrote a special preface to this publication.
    After the death of Marx, a number of Manifesto editions were published, reviewed by Engels: in 1883, the German edition
    with a foreword by Engels; in 1888, an English edition translated by S. Moore, edited by Engels and
    equipped with a preface and notes; in 1890, a German edition with a new introduction by Engels. TO
    Engels also wrote several notes for the latest edition. In 1885, in the newspaper Socialiste (The Socialist)
    the French translation of the Manifesto was published by Marx’s daughter Laura Lafargue and
    viewed by Engels. Engels wrote the preface to the Polish edition of the Manifesto of 1892 and
    Italian edition of 1893.
    2 Metternich, Clemens, Prince (1773–1859) - Austrian statesman and diplomat,
    Minister of Foreign Affairs (1809–1821) and Chancellor (1821–1848), ardent reactionary, one of the organizers
    Holy union.
    3 Guizot, Francois Pierre Guillaume (1787–1874) - French bourgeois historian and state
    The figure, from 1840 to 1848, actually led domestic and foreign policy, expressed the interests of a large
    financial bourgeoisie.
    4 By the bourgeoisie we mean the class of modern capitalists, owners of public funds
    production employing wage labor. By the proletariat is meant the class of modern wage workers,
    who, being deprived of their own means of production, are forced, in order to live, to sell
    1. vassa
      vassa 24 September 2014 08: 41
      0
      "It's only a pity for the people who fall under the theory of this revolution"
      Marx
    2. viach
      viach 24 September 2014 20: 18
      0
      Why is it not specified that the same K. Marx fiercely hated the Russians and everything Russian?
  48. Ivan Denikin
    Ivan Denikin 22 September 2014 18: 21
    +2
    Hooray comrades! It would be so long ago. And the monument on the Lubyanka also needs to be restored, naturally to the size in which it stood historically. The right thing is doing GDP. Support for all 100.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 22 September 2014 18: 44
      +4
      Quote: Ivan Denikin
      And the monument on the Lubyanka also needs to be restored, naturally, to the size in which it stood historically.


      And what will be historically true and fair at Lubyanka, a monument to Dzerzhinsky or what was on this site before the monument on December 20, 1958, or even earlier? Can restore the street as it was in imperial times? Where is historical justice? ODON was returned its historical name, but the square has a historically different look.
  49. Tor hummer
    Tor hummer 22 September 2014 19: 01
    -5
    It is worth recalling that Dzerzhinsky was an ardent Russophobe and chauvinist. Here is one of his sayings "As a child, I dreamed of having an invisible hat in order to kill as many mosques as possible in it."
    1. bubla5
      bubla5 22 September 2014 19: 42
      +3
      Yeah you probably Anderson
    2. Commissar of the NKVD
      Commissar of the NKVD 22 September 2014 21: 43
      +2
      And now I’ll ask for the data in the studio, where did you get this from. Or did you come up with it yourself?
    3. tantalum
      tantalum 23 September 2014 02: 56
      +1
      Quote: Tor Hummer
      "As a child, I dreamed of having an invisible hat in order to kill as many mos-ka-lei in it as possible."
      You do not ascribe your dreams to Dzerzhinsky
    4. vassa
      vassa 24 September 2014 08: 42
      0
      That's why he and Dzerzhinsky!
      And someone bows to him
  50. pvv113
    pvv113 22 September 2014 19: 13
    +7
    How many liberals from such a roof will jump down from such a roof today ... Especially, if we spend too much time on it for days.

    The more they jump, the cleaner the air will be hi