Military Review

Having gained independence, Scotland will save the world from new wars ...

225
Having gained independence, Scotland will save the world from new wars ...


For several centuries, Scotland, which had lost its independence, was a supplier of soldiers and resources for the British Empire. Scots, satisfying the British imperial ambitions, died in the Hindu Kush mountains and savannas of Africa, in the prairies of North America, the deserts of Australia and the jungles of India. How many sons and daughters of Scotland were not born because of the passion of the British crown for colonial seizures? How many Scots died away from their homeland for the interests of others?

Having been compelled to participate in the British aggressive wars, the Scots perished in thousands for the British crown, and their mothers and wives mourned them.

Already in the twentieth century, England in every way contributed to the outbreak of the First World War. And Sir Arthur Neville Chamberlain, trying to direct Hitler against Russia, actually gave him the whole of Europe without a fight, thereby strengthening German fascism with its industry and resources.

Sir Winston Churchill spoke at 1946 in the US city of Fulton, Missouri, as the initiator of the start of the Cold War and the nuclear arms race.

In the eyes of tens and hundreds of millions of people, Britain has become a symbol of colonial conquests, the absence of any ethical standards in politics and glaring arrogance towards the conquered peoples. India, Southeast Asia, Polynesia, Africa, Australia, Asia - in all parts of the world, the British military, merchants, politicians were noted as representatives of the British Empire, carrying not the sword, but the sword.

Did all these steps meet the national interests of Scotland? The answer is obvious: of course not!
For centuries, Scotland suffered immense humiliation and was forced to comply with the most draconian laws of Great Britain. Tell me, Scots, did our glorious ancestors who died on the battlefields of Bannockborn and Nevills Cross, Dunbar and Falkirk dream about this? What would William Wallace, Robert Bruce, the Black and Red Douglas, and finally the Scottish martyr king Jacob Stewart think of this?

Before that, whole 500 years (!), From 1206 to 1706 years, Scotland waged wars with England and successfully defended its independence. In 1701, the act of succession deprived the representatives of our Scottish royal house of Stuarts the right to the throne of Great Britain, and the acts of union of Scotland and England of 1706 and 1707 were the meanest deception of the Scots by the British, who received everything without giving the Scotch anything.

Despite the declaration that the Parliament of England and Scotland was supposed to be joint, in reality it rendered almost entirely English.

After the place of the first world power passed to the United States of North America, Great Britain, without losing its ambitions to the end, as a result, became the most limp singing of the most aggressive American circles.
It should be borne in mind that at the time of the conquest of North America from the shores of Great Britain there were mainly the dregs of society — bandits, criminals, prostitutes, pimps, murderers, etc. Of course, from this the moral character and ethical qualities of the citizens of modern USA have by no means become better and more moral.

Thus, at present, the English crown acts as the most faithful ally of the descendants of the dregs of society. Pretty company for the British royal house, isn't it? And the sons and daughters of proud Scotland were forced to play the role of slavishly obedient subjects of the English crown ...

As a result, Scotland now acts as a target for Russian nuclear missiles, as the largest naval bases of the Royal Naval fleet located just in Scotland.

The UK is fully tied to nuclear issues. weapons through the NATO Nuclear Planning Group, and, therefore, the decision on its use will be taken even by England, not to mention Scotland itself, but by the United States.
Nuclear UK forces are included in the US Operational Strategic Hazard Operations Plan (OPLAN). Thus, the United States at any time able to unleash a nuclear war, not even asking about the Scots. Was Scotland chosen by chance as the location of British nuclear submarines? Of course not, since it has always been a second-rate territory for the British crown.

So, for the deployment of nuclear submarines in the UK, the Firth of Clyde was elected. Its high rocky shores, formed by the spurs of the Scottish Highlands, perform well the functions of natural anti-nuclear protection. The bay is a vast water area with a length of about 140 km, width at the entrance of 40 km and at the top about 5 km, with depths from 33 to 164 m. Flowing into the bay r. Clyde has an estuary with many bays (Lough Long, Holy Loch, Gar Lough, and others), convenient for home-based ships.

For the deployment of nuclear missile submarines, the British chose the northern part of the bay Ger-Loch, and the arsenal of missile weapons - the eastern shore of the bay Loch-Long. The naval base (naval base) of the SSBN Faslane is located 32 km north-west of the city of Glasgow and is connected to the administrative center by road. It includes a floating dock, a command post and squadron headquarters, onshore workshops, warehouses for various purposes, personnel barracks and a training center for training SSBN crews. Floating AFD 60 has a load capacity of 9000 t, length 168 m, width 28 m; It is equipped with cranes and repair shops. The training center has training equipment purchased in the United States, including simulators for practicing the actions of personnel in launching and launching Polaris missiles. With the completion of the construction, all British SSBNs, organized in the 10 Squadron, began to be based on the Navy Faslane.

There is no doubt that in the event of a nuclear conflict, Scotland would become a radioactive desert, where there would be no place for life. And all because of the fact that the British crown really wanted and wanted, if not to be, as before, the mistress of the seas, then at least be on the sidelines in the North American states ...

Having lost Scotland as a result of the upcoming September 18 referendum, and its results are no one in doubt, the United Kingdom will finally cease to exist.

The British Empire, which for centuries unleashed bloody wars, will go into oblivion.

The armed forces of Great Britain, having lost the naval bases on the territory of Scotland, and, most importantly, the Scots themselves, of whom the best regiments have always been recruited, will significantly reduce their ability to participate in various kinds of aggression.

The warlike Great Britain will finally stop provoking the world to new wars.

Its decisive role in unleashing bloody conflicts will remain forever in the past.

The victory of the supporters of the independence of Scotland will result in the loss of a third of its territory and a tenth of its population for the United Kingdom, a huge reduction in industrial potential. The mountains and lakes of Scotland will belong to the Scots.

Scots! You know how to vote 18 September. And you must remember that your every vote will determine how you will talk about Scotland in the future: as part of the British Empire, which, for its history shed rivers of blood, or as a free nation, cast off the imperial shackles, and once and for all decided to become worthy of their ancestors.

And let the British Prime Minister David Cameron raise in front of his residence even the 1000 flags of Scotland, this will not change anything ...

It is said that my great-great-great-grandfather, a distant descendant of King Jacob the Second Stewart, Ron Stewart, loved to repeat:

- God save Scotland from the queen!

And I gladly repeat his words.
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  1. portoc65
    portoc65 11 September 2014 15: 33
    +36
    Could not raise the banner of Scotland. Bad sign for the Saxons
    1. Fuse
      Fuse 11 September 2014 15: 45
      +87
      Down with the English junta! Scotland will be free!
      1. Interface
        Interface 11 September 2014 16: 05
        -116
        I don’t understand those who are sitting here and gloating, they say, Britain has broken up !!



        Have you forgotten how 23 years ago they made fun of us when the USSR fell apart?
        No need to be like nits! We are not them!

        Let there be Britain. My opinion. The British gave them everything: roads, universities, hospitals, schools, and they throw their own. Just like svidomye in 1991
        1. Past_ Crocodile
          Past_ Crocodile 11 September 2014 16: 09
          +70
          Quote: Interface
          Have you forgotten how 23 years ago they made fun of us when the USSR fell apart?

          That's it, remember wink
          1. supertiger21
            supertiger21 11 September 2014 16: 27
            +50
            God save Scotland from the Queen!
            1. nickname 1 and 2
              nickname 1 and 2 11 September 2014 16: 38
              +27
              Quote: supertiger21
              God save Scotland from the Queen!


              And from Interface

              What more could the ENEMY want? Angles = always our enemies! (despite episodes in the Second World War)
              1. Interface
                Interface 11 September 2014 17: 19
                -17
                And from Interface


                Ohoho prankster

                Smishnoooo
            2. Naum
              Naum 11 September 2014 17: 34
              +15
              Quote: supertiger21
              God save Scotland from the Queen!

              And the whole world is from the USA! The United States of America, the modern focus and World Evil generator, must be destroyed!
              1. Past_ Crocodile
                Past_ Crocodile 11 September 2014 21: 59
                -7
                From words to deeds - set an example.
                PS I put the cons without justification, keep in mind the announcements.
                1. Akuzenka
                  Akuzenka 13 September 2014 00: 01
                  +1
                  I agree, the political commanders of the crowd, and the commissars, units.
            3. OlegLex
              OlegLex 11 September 2014 17: 35
              +5
              God !!! save Scotland from the queen !!!
            4. The comment was deleted.
          2. Frisbee
            Frisbee 12 September 2014 12: 17
            0
            And if you remember, then also remember that Russia is not unitary statehood and federation!
            1. xoma58
              xoma58 12 September 2014 13: 21
              0
              They forgot to ask you. You probably live in a unitary.
        2. arjiev
          arjiev 11 September 2014 16: 18
          +9
          Well, now it’s our turn to make fun of and gloat over them - and then on to the line of Shshshsha Ura-Ura
        3. bubla5
          bubla5 11 September 2014 16: 31
          +35
          You argue so, as if the Scots are a lazy nation, this is the opposite, wherever the Scotland people go everywhere, it is the Tumans who owe their grave to life, and the Angles, as they received pirates and robbers, continue to greet thieves and scammers from all over the world
          1. Interface
            Interface 11 September 2014 17: 24
            -31
            Like the Scots are a lazy nation


            Well, yes.

            While in England the industrial revolution ended in Scotland, the Middle Ages remained.

            They lived there in the mountains, like savages and fought with the British.

            Thanks to whom?
            1. Andrey Yuryevich
              Andrey Yuryevich 11 September 2014 17: 58
              +11
              Quote: Interface
              Like the Scots are a lazy nation


              Well, yes.

              While in England the industrial revolution ended in Scotland, the Middle Ages remained.

              They lived there in the mountains, like savages and fought with the British.

              Thanks to whom?
              and in our mountains, continuous silicone valleys, from Abkhazia to Chechnya !!! wassat
            2. FREGATENKAPITAN
              FREGATENKAPITAN 11 September 2014 18: 00
              +14
              All industrial production (well, the main part) is located in Scotland, oil, gas, shelf ... similarly ........ And why so the shavers do not want their independence? Probably a couple of schools have not been completed?
            3. Past_ Crocodile
              Past_ Crocodile 11 September 2014 22: 04
              -4
              "+" for perseverance and inflexibility.
            4. dilyanna
              dilyanna 11 September 2014 22: 09
              +5
              They are highlanders !!!
              Iraq is also said to have become "progressive" in recent times
              Nobody gloats, just people support the idea of ​​independence from "filth, in the face of arrogant British" ...

              and the question arises when they will begin to exert pressure on them and what ...
            5. fiodor
              fiodor 12 September 2014 03: 55
              +10
              Hmm, well, in your opinion, there are only Duncan MacLeods with swords still running through the mountains and shepherds grazing sheep. What is oblique to Scotland and the referendum, I am unconditionally for this, firstly, the hairpin of Britain as our best and long-term "friend" is to insert it, yes, it's great, Great Britain became just Britain and the extra cross will have to be removed from the flag, but the main thing is a democratic precedent , it turns out they can, but Crimea, Novorossia, Abkhazia, Ossetia, and in general no one is allowed, but this is unlikely to happen, I think everything will remain appropriated, although many of us would like it.
              1. vitamin ky
                vitamin ky 12 September 2014 13: 02
                +2
                in my moymu soon, many will lose their crosses on the flag
                1. fiodor
                  fiodor 12 September 2014 15: 08
                  +2
                  Yeah, let's see how they say, get ready to alter and repaint the flags, laughing but in my opinion Scotland will remain in Nagliya although I would like to have a precedent against the backdrop of world events, so to speak. the Scots would show the Anglo-Saxons their cookie and that not all of the carnival would be very good for the cat.
        4. evgenii67
          evgenii67 11 September 2014 16: 40
          +3
          Quote: Interface
          Let there be Britain.

          yes x ... with them. the only thing I like from Britain (it's the English Premier League)
          1. romandostalo
            romandostalo 13 September 2014 04: 17
            0
            And to me GUINNESS beer that is characteristic nifiga not nagliyskoe !!!
        5. sgazeev
          sgazeev 11 September 2014 17: 52
          +17
          Quote: Interface
          I don’t understand those who are sitting here and gloating, they say, Britain has broken up !!



          Have you forgotten how 23 years ago they made fun of us when the USSR fell apart?
          No need to be like nits! We are not them!

          Let there be Britain. My opinion. The British gave them everything: roads, universities, hospitals, schools, and they throw their own. Just like svidomye in 1991

          For the first time I hear about universities, the University of Edinburgh is one of the five prestigious ones. The question of how it was like to be part of the United Kingdom and what Scotland learned from this, should be approached from two sides. On the one hand, Scotland certainly benefited from such an “alliance”. The economy has grown thanks to English infusions. Technical progress - shipbuilding, mechanical engineering have arisen here. Scotland has had its own deputies in the House of Commons. Its natives more than once became prime ministers of Great Britain. Among them were, for example, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. On the other hand, the Scots have practically lost such an integral attribute of most nations as their own language. Great poets and writers such as Robert Burns, Walter Scott, Robert Stevenson, Arthur Conan Doyle, philosopher David Hume, economist Adam Smith wrote in English and became an integral part of English culture and science. In addition, all decisions on Scotland were made in London. In the end, the loss of language and the almost complete subjugation of England contributed to the growth of Scottish separatism. Thus, Scotland has grounds and opportunities to demand the right to independence from the British government. Alexander Salmond insists that if Scotland itself is able to deal with healthcare, culture, education and other areas of government in the autonomy, then the local parliament will be able to cope with economic issues. Deputy First Minister of Autonomy, as well as the leader of the Scottish National Party, Nicola Sturgeon says that North Sea shelf oil deposits (Scotland ranks second in Europe after Norway for oil reserves), Scotch whiskey exports and tourism will ensure Scotland's economic independence. Sturgeon claims that Scots have the right, like citizens of other countries, to determine the economic policies of their state. But with all this, according to Sturgeon, this will not be complete independence, because the British monarch will continue to be the head of Scotland. In addition, if necessary, a number of issues can be resolved jointly with Britain. Moreover, (as Salmond pointed out), if independence is granted, Scotland will not participate in any military operations outside the country, nor will it allow the deployment of nuclear weapons on its territory. It is up to them, not mattresses.
          1. Duke
            Duke 11 September 2014 23: 31
            +6
            Monument to the legendary Russian cruiser "Varangian" was opened in scotland
            He himself rests on the seabed a few hundred meters from the erected monument. Almost everyone knows about the heroic death of the Varyag in Russia. But few people know that after the famous battle in the Chemulpo bay, he sailed under different flags for another fifteen years.
            He himself rests on the seabed a few hundred meters from the erected monument. Almost everyone knows about the heroic death of the Varyag in Russia. But few people know that after the famous battle in the Chemulpo bay, he sailed under different flags for another fifteen years.
            Little Scots in Russian peakless caps already know that unusual letters add up to the short word "Varyag". They know that for the Russians who have arrived it is simply a synonym for courage. St. Andrew's banner, five hundred meters from the coast, is now a Russian mark in the Irish Sea. A simple naval sign - "Varyag" lies here.
            Brian Johnson-Burnet, Admiral of the Royal Navy of Britain: "This is an amazing feat. At the naval academies we teach the sailors of Her Majesty on the example of the Varyag - what is military prowess."
            "Varyag" who does not surrender to the enemy. A story that has already become a legend. The Varyag was locked up by a Japanese squadron in Chemulpo Bay in 1904. He could surrender, he could open the Kingstones and go to the bottom. He decided to take battle with fifteen opponents. Crazy attempt to break through without lowering the St. Andrew's banner.
            Lord George Robertson (former British Minister of Defense): "It is important that even after so many years Russian sailors remember their heroes. In Scotland there is a monument to Admiral Jones, a Scotsman who commanded the Russian imperial fleet. He said that Russian sailors taught him a lot."
            Memory of the sea fraternity. Russian sailors along with the British salute the memory of the heroes. The guard of honor and funeral wreaths, a prayer service and candles according to the Orthodox tradition to the Russian cruiser, who does not give up. Here in Ländelfoot the Scots themselves promised to create a small museum of Russian courage.
            Monument to the Russian spirit in the Irish Sea. It is already known that another monument of Russian valor will appear in Scotland next year. Literally a hundred kilometers from here, on the Arkni Islands, a memorial stone to Yuri Gagarin will appear in the Museum of Achievements of Humanity.

            1. Lionov
              Lionov 12 September 2014 14: 38
              +1
              Barclay de Tolly, the hero of 1812, was also a Scotsman.
              1. romandostalo
                romandostalo 13 September 2014 04: 27
                +1
                And also Jacob Bruce, Admiral Samuel Karlovich Greig ....
                1. Kindof
                  Kindof 14 September 2014 01: 13
                  0
                  And also Patrick Gordon - General and Rear Admiral of the Russian Army
        6. FREGATENKAPITAN
          FREGATENKAPITAN 11 September 2014 17: 57
          +19
          I think that 23 years ago it was just people like you who were happy! ...... And the Scots asked them to give them roads and hospitals ...... ??? USSR In the Baltic States (and in Ukraine too) built everything from scratch ..... and where is the gratitude? Scotland for centuries fought with England for independence ......... Sir William WALLACE - national Heroes of the country, Fought and died for independence from arrogant English ....... Proud Scotland should be free!
          1. Interface
            Interface 11 September 2014 18: 10
            -28
            I think that 23 years ago rejoiced just like you


            You end up there farting about "national traitors", comrade hurray-patriot. Do you write comments for a pretty penny? You are a shameful guardian.

            I just see how in RFii everything Soviet is slowly littering, how Lenin is openly called a "German spy" on federal channels.

            How the building of the VTsIK school was demolished in the Kremlin (the legendary Kremlin Cadets studied there in the early Soviet times, who defended Moscow in 1941), and in their place are going to build regular "chapels". This, incidentally, was stated by a former KGB colonel who swore an oath to the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and vowed at one time to "preserve and develop the military traditions of the Cheka-KGB," namely, the President of the Russian Federation.



            As a patriot, I feel sick of this abomination. And you?

            Che there about "spiritual braces". Are Soviet traditions not spiritual bonds?
            1. FREGATENKAPITAN
              FREGATENKAPITAN 11 September 2014 19: 09
              +16
              Well, I personally did not insult you ....... and about who makes a pretty penny this is another question ????? ..... I Soviet can more than you, ............ What’s the problem? That they want to restore the historical appearance to the Kremlin? ....... About Lenin, a thinking person (even if he is a communist) should understand that both Germany and Lenin used each other for their own purposes ... Is it not a slogan Lenin -Our task-The defeat of Russia in the world war ??????? One must reasonably and thoughtfully approach the History of his state, and the role of Lenin, Stalin ..... and others ...... But it doesn’t happen either white or black (or red-white)
              1. Interface
                Interface 11 September 2014 19: 41
                -8
                and about who makes a pretty penny is another question?


                Yes, because a little "patriotic" tone can not be sustained, already arrivals like "here you are, here you are."


                I put the principles above the benefits. Therefore, he wrote that there is nothing to be like the Anglo-Saxons and neighing over the collapse of their homeland.
                Yes Yes. They also have it. And they love her no less than me or you ours.
                1. Past_ Crocodile
                  Past_ Crocodile 11 September 2014 20: 19
                  +16
                  Alas, they are not worthy of sympathy. Did they sympathize with the husband of a woman with a one-year-old child of those who died in Donetsk? Is it not cynicism to unleash a civil war and demand from our country to extinguish it? For me, the leaders of the EU countries are the same scum and subhuman as the Arabs.
                  1. Penzyac
                    Penzyac 11 September 2014 21: 29
                    +9
                    Quote: Past_ Crocodile
                    Alas, they are not worthy of sympathy. Did they sympathize with the husband of a woman with a one-year-old child of those who died in Donetsk? Is it not cynicism to unleash a civil war and demand from our country to extinguish it? For me, the leaders of the EU countries are the same scum and subhuman as the Arabs.

                    I put a plus, and then it struck: why do you in Europe consider only the leaders of the EU countries to be scum, and the Arabs have been written down as "subhuman" by all? What kind of racism?
                    They began "for health", and ended "for peace."
                    Remember, there are bad people, but no bad peoples. By the way, the same applies to the good ones.
                    1. Past_ Crocodile
                      Past_ Crocodile 11 September 2014 23: 36
                      +4
                      This is not racism in the general sense. For me, Pushkin is Russian, because he is ours. People who accepted that others can be killed for opinion, faith, language are animals for me until this practice is abandoned.
                      Have you heard about black racism?
                      P.S. I met personally, I speak as I think.
                    2. andrew42
                      andrew42 12 September 2014 13: 16
                      +6
                      Do not confuse the attitude towards peoples and the attitude towards states. Great Britain from the beginning of the imperial "heyday" is a nest of invaders, robbers, operating on the money of bankers' houses of famous nationality. Since the execution of Charles I, it is a corporation of usurers. Now it is a "reserve site", a half-empty nest of the world liquidocracy, but a working site, only geopolitically narrowed, "the controller of Europe." There are no complaints about the British, Welsh, Scots as peoples. There are claims to them about the support of the clique ruling them, the descendants of the Normans, who work off and increase the Jewish capital by beating and plundering. This is a classic of the genre, read for example L. Gumilyov about the symbiosis of Normans and Rachdonites in the European slave trade. Nothing has changed since then. And there is no sympathy for the so-called blue-blooded "elite", and there is no sympathy for Great Britain as the feeding trough of this "elite". The Scots will get independence - and good. The descendants of Scottia and Northumbria deserve it, and if they wish, they have the right to do so, backed up by centuries of shed blood and endured humiliation. Anecdotes about greedy and lazy Scots are like stories about drunk and lazy Russians riding bears. Kitsch and fake. It's nice, very nice, that Scotland spoke up.
                2. Penzyac
                  Penzyac 11 September 2014 21: 21
                  0
                  Quote: Interface
                  and about who makes a pretty penny is another question?


                  Yes, because a little "patriotic" tone can not be sustained, already arrivals like "here you are, here you are."


                  I put the principles above the benefits. Therefore, he wrote that there is nothing to be like the Anglo-Saxons and neighing over the collapse of their homeland.
                  Yes Yes. They also have it. And they love her no less than me or you ours.

                  But in this I will support.
                3. Kindof
                  Kindof 12 September 2014 20: 00
                  +1
                  What kind of their homeland decay ??

                  The first words from Wikipedia: "in the past (until 1707) an independent kingdom in northern Europe ..."

                  Just three hundred years of the colonial regime of Scotland - and it has already become the homeland of the British ?? and they love her .. (in the sense of: have - that means they love)
                  Are other colonies also home?

                  These are two DIFFERENT peoples who have much less in common than Russians and Ukrainians.
                  Anglo-Saxons and Celts - overseas aggressors and natives of their land

                  The appeal to the people of Scotland is monumental and epic. That is how I imagined the Scots. Her sons and Russia served with dignity.

                  I’ll definitely go there and shake my hand
                  1. Kindof
                    Kindof 12 September 2014 20: 25
                    +1
                    This is from Wikipedia:

                    During the conquest, the Anglo-Saxons exterminated a large number of the Celtic population. Some of the Celts were driven out of Britain to the continent (where they settled on the Armorica Peninsula in Gaul, later called Brittany), and some were turned into slaves and dependent people, obliged to pay tribute to the conquerors.

                    Independence was defended only by the mountainous Celtic areas in the west of Britain (Wales and Cornwall) and in the north (Scotland), where tribal associations continued to exist, which later turned into independent Celtic principalities and kingdoms. Ireland, inhabited by the Celts, retained complete independence from the Anglo-Saxons.
                4. FREGATENKAPITAN
                  FREGATENKAPITAN 13 September 2014 20: 23
                  +1
                  But I don’t laugh ... I just think that the geopolitical collapse of the UK is more beneficial for Russia than ever (and by the way on time) .... Wise British (almost wrote by scientists) politicians will be more concerned with problems in their country than to poke their nose where they are not asked, and strategically England will become noticeably weaker!
              2. Interface
                Interface 11 September 2014 19: 45
                -4
                But it doesn’t happen like that, either white or black (well, or red-white)


                No, that means Kolchak and his ilk, who, with the Entente’s money, were fighting against the Soviet power that won the country, should you also respect them?

                For me, so they are complete scum.
                My great-great-grandfather fought for the Reds, was wounded. And today, through the prism of the First World War, the White Guards are trying to rehabilitate all kinds of Medina and old people there.
                1. zen-do.ru
                  zen-do.ru 11 September 2014 20: 07
                  0
                  So you are the Soviet integration, which facilitates mutual assistance and strengthens the brotherhood, do not equate with the bourgeois, which only intensifies exploitation.
                  In small pieces, democracy also works better - which is real, and not "a service to the ruling circles of the United States," as they understand democracy now.
                  1. Interface
                    Interface 11 September 2014 22: 24
                    -2
                    and where did I equate her?
                2. Penzyac
                  Penzyac 11 September 2014 21: 37
                  +4
                  Quote: Interface
                  But it doesn’t happen like that, either white or black (well, or red-white)


                  No, that means Kolchak and others like him, who, with the Entente’s money, were fighting against the Soviet power that won the country, should you also respect them? ...

                  Believe me, it’s worth (the same Kolchak at least as a scientist - Arctic explorer), otherwise you will have to respect no one: neither white, nor red, neither white nor fluffy.
                  1. Interface
                    Interface 11 September 2014 22: 27
                    -2
                    Listen, Vlasov was also one of the best commanders of the Red Army (and this is in all seriousness). And then-- a traitor.


                    What is Kolchak?
                    When he began to cut Siberians, all his "polar" activities multiplied to zero.
                    And all the money of the Entente.
                    1. Sarmat149
                      Sarmat149 11 September 2014 23: 36
                      +8
                      The first about Vlasov is a traitor, what difference does it make in peacetime that he had success, during the war he became a traitor, others who were not so successful traitors did not.
                      The second "slaughter Siberians" - the civil war is always the most cruel, the tragedy is always a tragedy, the Russians cut the Russians.
                      Your examples from the set of information warfare against our people, why did you bring them?
                      1. Interface
                        Interface 12 September 2014 08: 52
                        -3
                        Your examples from the set of information warfare against our people, why did you bring them?


                        Are you dumb This is a question.


                        This big-nosed asshole nailed the peasants with bayonets to the barns, and the old cocks 100 years later they are pouring about the "Arctic explorer".
                    2. Alexander I
                      Alexander I 13 September 2014 10: 55
                      +2
                      Although he is a great discoverer, commander. But as JUDAH it is much larger and a monument in Irkutsk, I would call the MONUMENT OF JUDAH !!! How much he had among the insignificant civilians of Irkutsk, how much his gang raped the girls and women of Irkutsk later killed and people told me that. Who saw it all themselves.
                3. vadik191007
                  vadik191007 12 September 2014 16: 32
                  -2
                  And you personally transferred the money to the smelly mutant, and how dare you evaluate the actions of the White Guard commanders unfinished
                  1. Interface
                    Interface 12 September 2014 20: 00
                    -1
                    Lick Denikin, hire Buzhuysky
                    1. ant1958
                      ant1958 13 September 2014 03: 09
                      +2
                      Everything is much more complicated. Denikin refused to help the Nazis during the Great Patriotic War! So it’s not so simple.
              3. Past_ Crocodile
                Past_ Crocodile 11 September 2014 20: 05
                0
                Greetings on the right side.
              4. Wheel
                Wheel 11 September 2014 23: 55
                0
                Quote: FREGATENKAPITAN
                . Isn’t the slogan of Lenin - Our task - The defeat of Russia in the world war ???????

                Actually, the translation of the imperialist war into a civil war.
                There was nothing about the defeat.
                1. andrew42
                  andrew42 12 September 2014 13: 24
                  +3
                  It is already good to stir up the ashes of Ulyanov-Blanc. The manager was brilliant, no words, but bloody and shameless. Probably from there the roots of "creative management" in all its negative sense come from - "our idea is so ingenious that it does not require evaluation, but only remuneration, and in advance".
              5. yehat
                yehat 12 September 2014 10: 03
                +1
                Quote: FREGATENKAPITAN
                I Soviet can more than you

                different people mean different things in the concept of "Soviet"
                one thinks that one could steal every day
                (and I know those who carried tons of copper from the factory in their pockets)
                the other just talks like a bourgeois
                the third one somehow

                however, there is also a group that implies exceptional moral principles in the concept of "Soviet". You are not from there.
            2. Penzyac
              Penzyac 11 September 2014 21: 17
              +2
              Quote: Interface
              I think that 23 years ago rejoiced just like you

              ...
              As a patriot, I feel sick of this abomination. And you?
              Che there about "spiritual braces". Are Soviet traditions not spiritual bonds?

              The history and spiritual bonds of Russia are not limited to the Soviet one (and, moreover, only to Stalin), however, just as without the Soviet one is impossible either. Russia (Rus) has been many more than 1000 years old, and not just less than 100.
              1. Interface
                Interface 11 September 2014 22: 29
                -1
                The history and spiritual bonds of Russia are not limited to Soviet only (especially Stalinist),


                The story in 1917 has not ended.

                I already wrote somewhere. The monument to the Great Patriotic War was demolished in Ivanovo in 2012, and another temple was built in its place.

                How do you like it? Okay so.
                1. Sarmat149
                  Sarmat149 11 September 2014 23: 40
                  +1
                  Fine. This is in our Russian style, if you do not know this. Because most of the temples we have built for prayers for the dead soldiers - everything is simple. People simply do not want to know this truth, as indeed YOU.
                  1. Interface
                    Interface 12 September 2014 08: 56
                    -4
                    Fine. This is in our Russian style, if you do not know this. Because most of the temples we have built for prayers for the dead soldiers - everything is simple. People simply do not want to know this truth, as indeed YOU.


                    How tired I am of nerds to answer.



                    It was necessary to demolish a monument to Soviet wars, and build a chrome remake in its place?

                    This is so the memory of the great patriotic so perpetuate in Russia?
            3. vadik191007
              vadik191007 12 September 2014 16: 26
              +2
              And you uro-de-ts did not think of the Heropatriot that before the All-Russian Central Executive Committee school there was a cathedral which was demolished by the Bolsheviks under the leadership of this go - VN Lenin
              1. Interface
                Interface 12 September 2014 18: 53
                -2
                And you uro-de-ts did not think of the Heropatriot that before the All-Russian Central Executive Committee school there was a cathedral which was demolished by the Bolsheviks under the leadership of this go - VN Lenin



                A historical building, why demolish and build a remake?
                The devaluation of the value of an architectural monument is also a form of destruction of historical memory.

                What? let's break everything, because you can build a remake and say that these are "restored shrines"


                there was a cathedral which was demolished by the Bolsheviks under the leaders of this go - VN Lenin



                And they did it right. For me, research institutes and pools are more important than temples.
            4. romandostalo
              romandostalo 13 September 2014 04: 29
              0
              Minus for outright rudeness
        7. Karabanov
          Karabanov 11 September 2014 18: 47
          -2
          Quote: Interface
          I don’t understand those who are sitting here and gloating, they say, Britain has broken up !!
          Have you forgotten how 23 years ago they made fun of us when the USSR fell apart?
          No need to be like nits! We are not them!

          To you my +. But unfortunately, it’s very difficult for people ... to remain people in an inhuman world ... Rules of the game.
        8. fox21h
          fox21h 11 September 2014 18: 51
          +5
          Quote: Interface
          I don’t understand those who are sitting here and gloating, they say, Britain has broken up !!



          Have you forgotten how 23 years ago they made fun of us when the USSR fell apart?
          No need to be like nits! We are not them!

          Let there be Britain. My opinion. The British gave them everything: roads, universities, hospitals, schools, and they throw their own. Just like svidomye in 1991


          These freaks are guilty of our troubles (objectively, they were always enemies, and even when they were allies they were all the same nagged) Let them experience what the collapse of the country is like, then their consciousness will become clear, although I doubt it.
        9. patap
          patap 11 September 2014 19: 11
          0
          the garbage is true that the Scots were periodically cut out. sometimes very much ...
        10. Gomel
          Gomel 11 September 2014 19: 54
          +4
          them .. you don’t know about the history of Scotland ...
          and by the way, it is not necessary to misinterpret the achievements of Imperial Russia and the Union under the tracing-paper copy to the British.
          It was Russia that built schools and other transport and social infrastructure in the Baltic and Central Asia, less in tsarist Russia, and more with advice. Britain has always pulled everything towards itself, even the pancake of the mummy from Egypt and those to itself ...

          ps Sorry for the errors I am writing from the phone
          1. Interface
            Interface 11 September 2014 22: 31
            0
            Britain, unlike the Russian Empire, robbed foreign countries, but not the British, their subjects.

            I remember that in the Russian Empire only a Russian person could be turned into a serfdom. But Poles, Finns, Balts --- no.


            Strange huh?
            1. fiodor
              fiodor 12 September 2014 03: 02
              +10
              Here dear, I read your comments and fundamentally disagree, to put it mildly, everything was enough everywhere, here you are proud of your great-grandfather, he fought in the red army in the civilian army, and my great-grandfather was a peasant, had his own oil mill and mill, while hiring workers for the season but he also paid them not any serfs and disenfranchised, fed himself and gave work to others, but the question of whether he was justly dispossessed as an "enemy of the people" was put in a carriage and in Siberia together with 12 children, only my grandmother survived,
              (the question is whether I should be proud of such a predel or was he still a trash drunk, a sub-fence?) it was lucky to say that her grandfather fought in two wars in Finnish and Great Patriotic War, and you say red and white, then all sadists weren’t from White monsters to make, and the Reds had a lot of them, and maybe even more, you create direct fascists from Kolchak and other white generals of the admirals, and the red army is bleached and fluffy (all according to the Geneva Convention, including the use of gases smile ), yes, yeah, I only agree that they are furry inside, there was enough atrocities on the one hand and the other, the civil war is maee. I was born and raised in the USSR and am proud of it, but alas, they ruined a great power, although everything was created in blood many victims, but in the end it turned out to be a great country, but it was buried, the victims turned out to be in vain. on the issue of Scotland, perhaps I will write in another comment there is not enough space.
              1. Interface
                Interface 12 September 2014 09: 11
                -3
                the question of whether they justly dispossessed his hard worker as an "enemy of the people" was put in a carriage and in Siberia together with 12 children, only my grandmother survived,


                The answer is fair.

                The Soviet government did not transfer land to anyone in ownership, much less to the fists. It belonged to the whole nation: peasants, workers, reindeer herders, pioneers, and even those generations of citizens who were not born.

                Do not believe-- re-read the Lenin Decree on the earth. And if the fists began to cash in on their villagers, first ruining them, and then using them as wage laborers-- they violated the Soviet basic law, where it was written in black and white that exploitation in the USSR was prohibited.

                dispossessed his hard worker as an "enemy of the people" put in a carriage and in Siberia together with 12 children, only my grandmother survived,


                It is not surprising that you have an ancestor turned out to be an enemy of the people, I do not see. Everything is according to the law.

                PS.
                After collectivization, child mortality in the village decreased by 3 times, the village received tractors and other modern agricultural machines. On collective farms, normal schools and medical facilities began to be built.
                For the sake of this 15% of peasants (wealthy exploiters) to be dispossessed is worth it.
                1. yehat
                  yehat 12 September 2014 10: 21
                  +7
                  Quote: Interface


                  The answer is fair.

                  For the sake of this 15% of peasants (wealthy exploiters) to be dispossessed is worth it.

                  you preferred to rake in the same size everyone - both "rich exploiters" and people who had their heads on their shoulders, not in their butts, and who did business fairly. This is not true.
                  As for the facts, then by decree Lenin promised land, but in the end no one received it. The liberation of the village in reality turned out to be even more enslaving than serfdom after the abolition of the New Economic Policy. And the Holodomor, so beloved by ukrodemagogues, is connected with this.
                  The village became more or less free only after the 2nd World War. Notice, again after the war they were released.

                  As for the "rich" peasants, I want to remind you that there was Stolypin's reform, and there was also the 2nd wave of this reform, when Stolypin gave not only land, but also real access to money to work it, and those who did not work at random, but they did not go bankrupt and in the majority they became prosperous, and sometimes rich and they were the descendants of the FORTRESS or themselves at one time serfs. Why dispossess them ??? There were scoundrels among them, that's right. But the poor were no better.
                  1. Interface
                    Interface 12 September 2014 15: 44
                    -1
                    As for the "rich" peasants, I want to remind you that there was a Stolypin reform, and there was also the 2nd wave of this reform, when Stolypin gave not only land


                    Interesting fact. Under Stolypin, Russia was starving (1906-07, 1908-09, 1911-1912).


                    After collectivization, Russia forgot about hunger for half a century, right up to the end of 80x.

                    Any further questions on this topic?
                  2. Interface
                    Interface 12 September 2014 18: 29
                    -1
                    Why dispossess them ??? There were villains among them, that’s true. But the poor were no better.


                    Listen, I'm tired of explaining.

                    This is what liberals and Nazis associate collectivization with "take and divide."

                    In normal people, the idea of ​​collectivization is different, namely:

                    I have Xnumx cows, I have a lot of milk, but I am a mediocre owner.
                    You have 3, but you are a first-class worker, but there is little milk, since there are few cows.

                    We are teaming up with you, we will work in 2 shifts, take care of cows, we will have milk above the roof and together with the state we will give at fixed prices.
                    .
                    This is called a collective farm - a collective farm.
                2. fiodor
                  fiodor 12 September 2014 10: 59
                  +6
                  Well, it’s hard to argue with you at all, it was a decree at first, land to peasants, factory workers, and other blah blahs, but in the end, the collective farmers and peasants turned out to be some kind of disenfranchised people, they plowed for sticks and workdays and the townspeople in general haven’t they weren’t in a row, they could only get a passport and, accordingly, the right to move somewhere after the times of Khrushchev, before that they were almost like serfs and had been working on the same collective farm all their lives. By the way, Lenin had nothing to do with it, after all, the NEP was, but dispossessed under Stalin at the age of 31, collectivization began. Well, let's compare at least with modernity, today's farmers who are trying to keep their own households and feed themselves and sell to the country are they your fists and you need them in the sense of exile? What kind of bloodthirsty you get, everything’s like bloodsuckers all around, damn it one Chubais, by modern standards, has a greater loss to the country than from the farmer of the exploiter Uncle Vasya. hi such laws are those who want to grow crops and at the same time have something superfluous that enemy of the people, which is called being a farmer today and earning a living by their own labor and providing their own country with food (and they don’t give it, they’re strangling it) and who frankly (oligarchs) that country, alas, friend and comrade, sad.
                  1. Interface
                    Interface 12 September 2014 15: 41
                    -2
                    sport and, accordingly, the right to move somewhere and he could only get after the times of Khrushchev


                    Where did you read this anti-Soviet nonsense? During the 20 years of Stalin's rule, 15 million people moved from the village to the city.


                    This is such nonsense, which is simply amazing, because someone believes in it.

                    your fists and they need that in the sense of a link ?,


                    Well stupid, what to say.


                    According to Soviet law, even the kulaks had the right to demand an allotment and a personal plot. The issue of deprivation of property concerned by and large only cattle.

                    So, excuse me, if someone among the ancestors had fists who ran around the fields with sawn-off shotguns, considered themselves entitled to avenge the Soviet Government, stole grain, created gangs that the OGPU fought against - this is the enemy of the people, the wrecker.

                    What can be the attitude of racketeers and raiders today? Their police are catching. The same thing was done in Soviet times. What could be the claim?
                    1. fiodor
                      fiodor 12 September 2014 18: 05
                      +4
                      Oh great, we’re breaking spears about each other. Yes, someone ran and trimmed and stole, and someone dutifully gave everything to Siberia with his whole family, so let's not do all the enemies of humanity under the same tune, as well as create idols for ourselves. During the reign of 15 million, say you moved to the city, well, I don’t argue, workdays and sticks or real money get it yes, it’s only interesting to get statistics, how many millions of cities have voluntarily moved to collective farms on their own initiative. And yet, let's be polite and not insult and sprinkle with words like nerds and other idioms.
                      1. Interface
                        Interface 12 September 2014 18: 38
                        -1
                        Yes, someone ran and trimmed and stole, and someone humbly gave everything to Siberia with his whole family,


                        Well, like this!
                        This is a completely different formulation of the question. In this, I agree.

                        According to the data recorded in a special resolution of the NKJ Board, the number of annulled sentences in the period from August 7 1932 to July 1 July 1933 ranged from 50 to 60%.



                        Of course, the Soviet Government had to make inhuman efforts in order to build a new state apparatus.

                        At the beginning of the 30's, finishing 7 classes and getting a high post was considered a huge career success.

                        Of course there were a lot of mistakes.



                        But. This does not cancel the results of collectivization. Before it they plowed a plow, and after - tractors.
                        After the famine of 1932-33 in the USSR, up to 80, people did not know about hunger.

                        Yes, "scarcity" and "hunger" are different things.
                3. Suvorov000
                  Suvorov000 12 September 2014 13: 16
                  +3
                  Hearing fair, to begin with, start telling a story as it is, and not as if you were hammered into your head with a scoop. Everyone who wanted and knew how to work, everyone worked and earned money. And only in the USSR did the engineer get the hard worker as a neighbor, too, for the level-taker was like everyone else. And you try to grow wheat, prepare it, and here comes a bunch of drunks, bandits, and a couple of dozens of outspoken freak spies. And let's turn it around so that the son goes to his father, brother goes to brother. And about the land, you are the slogan of this bald man. Do not PR here, nobody received anything, people just plowed, plowed and plowed, and as a reward to him there was only one mass grave. There is nothing to drive here about a happy childhood and persons fragrant with happiness. People couldn’t buy anything normally
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                4. andrew42
                  andrew42 12 September 2014 13: 58
                  +5
                  Here you rested your horn for the Red Revolution. I also took notes on Lenin's works and passed the History of the CPSU with a plus. And I think that in the end there is no alternative to socialism. But! you can't see the narrow corridor so point-blank. Lenin's decrees? - It's called Declarations. Let's be honest, let's talk. The October coup is the replacement of the national elite of the state with a new alien elite that does not feel any sympathy for the Russians, but vice versa. Hence collectivization is not some kind of "move" towards the progressive development of agriculture. This is a forced measure to provide this new "elite" with food, because Russian peasant farms would not feed it. That is, a fortress, the enslavement of labor resources in order to ensure their own power. Hence, all these ah, expect "accidental excesses on the ground." Hence the corresponding composition of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR, where there was not a single Russian in the obvious. Hence the first concentration camps of the 5s, even the GULAG turns gray in front of Solovki. It's time to honestly admit that the February and October revolutions are 20 stages of the project for the destruction of the Russian State. It doesn't matter under the Red Flag, or under the Gray-brown-crimson. For some reason, the current "democratic" historians are so diligently avoiding this historical moment, mumbling indistinct assessments, such as "the Russians lived and went mad, brother against brother, tra-la-la poplar." Customers and organizers of the massacre are known to all, but not advertised. Their ears are only slightly visible when Stalin put them against the wall in 2-1936. I really hope that the day will come, and 38 will be publicly given a truthful and terrible assessment - as a project for the destruction of the Russian people and the Russian state, without any muttering about "objective" processes there.
                  1. Interface
                    Interface 12 September 2014 18: 04
                    -1
                    as a project for the destruction of the Russian people and the Russian state,


                    And you can ask how the Russian people were "destroyed"?
                    Or are you only able to retell the farting of the degenerate Solonevich?
                  2. Interface
                    Interface 12 September 2014 18: 16
                    -1
                    the national elite of the state by a new alien elite that does not feel any sympathy for the Russians, but vice versa.


                    Have you filtered the Great Russian diarrhea? Already not even funny.


                    Hence the first concentration camps of 20's, even the Gulag turns gray before Solovki.



                    1. Correctional Labor Colonies and concentration camps are two different things.
                    In the USSR there never were concentration camps, only ITP.
                    By the way, they were preserved in the Russian Federation.
                    Only in the USSR did convicts carry out heavy work, and today they sew slippers and rivet license plates. And so everything is unchanged.

                    2. But did the White Guards and interventionists not create concentration camps?
                    By the way, the camp on the nightingales was the first to be organized by the white, on February 3, 1919, the Miller-Tchaikovsky government.
                    Learn history, patriot.
                    They themselves probably spread rot of the liberals, but only their same nonsense and repeat.


                    without any muttering about "objective" processes.


                    Little fact.

                    Of the 84 largest cities in Russia, Soviet power was established by force only in 15.

                    Anything else about the anti-national character of the "Soviets"? But in my opinion, everything is obvious, the people supported the Bolsheviks.


                    Red flag, or under gray-brown-raspberry.


                    If you like the Vlasov tricolor more, please visit the site "Beloe Delo".

                    But what if I tell you that the first flag of Russia (Russia) was exactly the RED banner?
                    Under him, Svyatoslav went to Constantinople. Explore the Byzantine miniatures, you will understand immediately.

                    Well how? Is there a gap pattern?

                    I wonder why, in response to the facts, I always get hundreds of sophistry words a bunch of minuses? Apparently, false anti-Soviet patriots do not own statistics. But how many emotions.

                    ahhh, probably because I say unusual things. How so.

                    After all, according to ORT, they say that Lenin is a "German shpien". Hehe. Everyone believes. It's funny - but you can't laugh, it's bad, people are shitty in their brains.
                    1. fiodor
                      fiodor 13 September 2014 01: 13
                      +1
                      Well, how much can I argue, in fact, I was born and raised there for the USSR, they built a great country, absolutely free medicine agrees with you, there is no inflation, and I was proud of it, but the question is, at what cost achieved, how many victims, in your understanding, all the enemies of the people were obtained, yes, Stalin accepted the country with a plow and left with a nuclear bomb, but again, it’s all at the cost of incredible victims, including innocents, and after all that he created, to steal such yes, the country agrees with you sadly and the tragedy, but you exaggerate too much and exalt the Red Army, let’s not be who was more humane of white red or fists with cutoffs. Now, about the banner, something from the age of 17 has dropped you for the red flag since the age of more than 1000, well, let's take the pagan coat of arms from that time on, but it’s not the essence, and the anthem wouldn’t hurt, though except God save the king and I don’t know the Soviet and remade from the Soviet, and what does not suit you with the tricolor, well, Peter introduced, etc. etc. let’s think up the coat of arms and anthem, but I’m begging you not with words: Russia hasn’t died yet. smile
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. Interface
                        Interface 13 September 2014 13: 55
                        0
                        Now, about the banner, something from 17 of the year has already dropped you on the red banner on 1000 for more than two years, so let's


                        What's the problem?
                        They tell me here that the tricolor was the first flag of Russia, I object. He was not the first.

                        This is the flag of the Vlasovschina and the White Guards, who fought against the interventionist Babos.
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                5. vadik191007
                  vadik191007 12 September 2014 16: 41
                  +1
                  if you are such a great red-legged guy like you and you like g ... but prosrali USSR ???
            2. vadik191007
              vadik191007 12 September 2014 16: 38
              -2
              Donkey, you still remember the Vikings
            3. lurk
              lurk 13 September 2014 22: 30
              0
              [quote = Interface] Britain, unlike the Russian Empire, robbed foreign countries, but not the British, their subjects.

              I remember that in the Russian Empire only a Russian person could be turned into a serfdom. But Poles, Finns, Balts --- no.
              Not true, your uncle
              Under Red Lizka they even hung for vagrancy, Britain is one of the most evil countries.
        11. 41 REGION
          41 REGION 11 September 2014 20: 04
          +3
          Quote: Interface
          I don’t understand those who are sitting here and gloating, they say, Britain has broken up !!

          I didn't put any cons, but there is a good old saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"
        12. Dilshat
          Dilshat 11 September 2014 21: 52
          +3
          Yes, and the Scots are such that they themselves would never have built, I list: roads, universities, hospitals, schools.
          God save the earth from the queen! -Key phrase.
          1. vitamin ky
            vitamin ky 12 September 2014 13: 06
            +2
            laughing : ls from the beginning I read - save from the snake, from the queen laughing
            1. fiodor
              fiodor 12 September 2014 15: 34
              +2
              No, the queen is not a snake, and so the snake is not poisonous, old woman, laughing essentially, the pensioner does not depend on her, that’s the kingdom, yes, the serpent’s agree.
              1. vitamin ky
                vitamin ky 12 September 2014 18: 40
                +1
                remember x \ f a purely English murder and others — poison — aristocrat’s weapon — it’s directly from the theme — so the old woman (queen), though languid, is still dangerous and the poison has not weathered yes
                1. fiodor
                  fiodor 12 September 2014 23: 01
                  +1
                  This, as they say, is controversial, God’s dandelion formally sits like on a throne, but she doesn’t decide a damn thing, everything in the cabinet of ministers in the House of Lords and stuff is junk at the moment it’s so simple picture monarchy pure formality everything is decided by the prime minister.
                  1. vitamin ky
                    vitamin ky 16 September 2014 21: 37
                    +1
                    well, the royal family may not decide - but it serves as a symbol - cromwell them - let it itch laughing
                    1. fiodor
                      fiodor 16 September 2014 21: 49
                      +1
                      Highlanders to them in one place laughing
        13. 1536
          1536 11 September 2014 22: 41
          +5
          The USSR collapsed as a result of the betrayal of the top of the CPSU, personally the secretary general of this party, the non-Russian "intelligentsia" who stayed in the country and muddied the waters. None of the majority of ordinary citizens of the USSR wanted the disintegration, which was reflected in the referendum held shortly before the fact of betrayal (more than 76% voted for the preservation of the USSR). Thus, legally, the Belavezha agreements, which followed a few months after the referendum, are an anti-constitutional coup, subsidized, like the current coup in Ukraine, by the United States of America and others like them.
          In Scotland, as far as I can tell, the origins of the desire to separate from today's gerontological English crown are the end of a centuries-old conflict between two peoples: deceivers and executioners of the English and proud Scots, whose desire for freedom from crooks and bribes should only be welcomed. Unfortunately, the British all rigged and the Scots from under the rotten royal skirt will not go anywhere.
          1. Interface
            Interface 12 September 2014 09: 16
            -3
            The USSR collapsed as a result of the betrayal of the top of the CPSU, personally the secretary general of this party, the non-Russian "intelligentsia" that was in the country and muddied the waters


            Gorbachev was the son of a fist. As well as Yeltsin. And here is Russian-non-Russian?

            Now everything is clear?
          2. yehat
            yehat 12 September 2014 10: 05
            0
            do not decorate the "proud Scots"
            they also have sins and they are not enough.
          3. andrew42
            andrew42 12 September 2014 13: 33
            +1
            A plus. But with the amendment. The top of the CPSU (namely the Politburo, and the key posts of the Central Committee) at the final stage consisted of approximately: 25% of patriots like Yegor Ligachev, 50% of opportunists, 25% of agents of Western influence. As soon as the latter were pushed to the post of General Secretary Gorby, "the process began." By the way, Gorbachev said so, did not elaborate on the essence of the process. :)) Under the cries of "the road for the young" (and in fact, not so young), after the poisoning of K.U. Chernenko, the "Russian party" in the Central Committee was crushed, talkative cosmopolitans began to decide everything. And this "process" seems to have begun not in 1985, but much earlier it was launched in "sleep mode". The careers of Gorby and Beni (and they were also pulled up by someone) is a clear confirmation of this.
        14. Stanislas
          Stanislas 11 September 2014 22: 46
          +1
          Quote: Interface
          No need to be like nits! We are not them!
          They are not just nits, they are enemies. And when the enemy becomes weaker, it makes me happy.
        15. fiodor
          fiodor 12 September 2014 03: 34
          +6
          Well, I don’t gloat directly and don’t become like bloodsucking, but the respected, the so-called Great Britain, has to delve into the history, we were plotting such intrigues and directly and indirectly inciting us all in a row, Russia was not profitable for them, the enemy was behind the scenes fortuneteller do not go for at least 300 years threw up foams, now of course America took the baton in this regard, but Britain is older, we suffered from it indirectly, believe me, do not worry. Anyway, Britain was marked all over the world one way or another, how many countries there are in the world, and she didn’t stick her nose at 10, but I agree that she did it for her greatness and her citizens, and Russia gently captured and assimilated Siberia to no one without destroying genocide. So you are proud of Britain in terms of all these colonies and genocide is for the sake of your people, it’s good if you are British, but if you are Russian I can’t understand you, stand up for your enemy, sorry to understand this beyond my strength excuse me.
          1. vitamin ky
            vitamin ky 12 September 2014 13: 00
            +3
            I always knew and believed - America, a kind of bull terrier millilitari - and here is the owner of this bull terrier - foggy London - and you don’t need to believe that America has outgrown its creator, so to speak, when London is lying, it’s very sophisticated, so anyway, England and Scotland - we have so much to do with the tray, to rake and rake yes
        16. mmk
          mmk 12 September 2014 03: 58
          +1
          What is this comment to? Now is a difficult time and they are thinking correctly. The initiator of the union was England, not Scotland, and it is not appropriate to compare Ukraine with Scotland. At that time, Ukraine had a danger of land seizure, and Scotland was not in danger, and Ukraine paid back too much for the then help from the Poles, the Scots have the resources and they have enough for the first time and they know better that they need union or independence. I think they would not go to London to their own detriment.
        17. volot-voin
          volot-voin 12 September 2014 11: 51
          +3
          Quote: Interface
          I don’t understand those who are sitting here and gloating, they say, Britain has broken up !!

          I probably would not cry if Britain drowned laughing , too much grief and blood brought us this state.
          Freedom and independence of Scotland, die rotten patrimony of the Rothschilds, England.
          1. andrew42
            andrew42 12 September 2014 13: 41
            0
            Well, why so .. And people live there. and the Rothschilds will simply transfer their "old nest" to other Palestinians.
        18. xoma58
          xoma58 12 September 2014 13: 14
          +3
          Have you been there when the British gave all this to the Scots? There is no more vile country than Great Britain, on their conscience there are rivers of blood and the maximum number of lives destroyed. Hitler before them is a student in front of a teacher.
        19. kr33sania
          kr33sania 12 September 2014 17: 26
          +1
          Note, you wanted to show that being CYKOY is ugly ... And you got minus 98. They soldered cans to me too, but it’s not pleasant for the Asterisks, but because some patriotism is FUNNY. You need to love your homeland with your heart and HEAD.
        20. Sandov
          Sandov 12 September 2014 19: 56
          +1
          Quote: Interface
          I don’t understand those who are sitting here and gloating, they say, Britain has broken up !!

          Remember the story. Remember the victims of the Scots. Such genocide was happening there in due time. Well, the Anglo-Saxons have always been different from other nations. I went boomerang, well, thank God. I will not regret it.
        21. Goha
          Goha 13 September 2014 00: 54
          0
          Let them make fun of Britain now.
        22. romandostalo
          romandostalo 13 September 2014 04: 09
          +1
          My sister lives in Southern Ireland and comes to the doctor with her children. She comes here to us, and talks about their medicine as charlatans.
        23. Echo
          Echo 13 September 2014 10: 34
          0
          But I agree with you. There is no truth in discord, and the Scots now look like rats running from a sinking ship. In the glory of Britain, they could have changed. But not now, when the United Kingdom openly falls into the abyss.
        24. Samurai3X
          Samurai3X 13 September 2014 10: 48
          0
          Did the British give them everything?
          I’ll scream this so that later I’ll show my friend at the faculty x)
        25. Kindof
          Kindof 14 September 2014 01: 00
          0
          And we do not make fun
          We are pleased to see the regularity of the self-disintegration of the empire of another exceptional nation built through a violent colonial policy based on diplomacy on the principle of "divide and rule"

          What makes you think that they are "their" ???
          God forbid you say that to a Scotsman or an Irishman ..
          Anglo-Saxons slaughtered the Celts for over a thousand years !! The Celts, respectively, the British ...

          Well done, keep it up! Seven feet under a kilt !!
        26. liberty
          liberty 14 September 2014 04: 59
          0
          You see, this folk on the site likes to blame the Balts for the fact that the USSR built schools and hospitals for them, and silly Balts treat them like that. As you see, when this applies to other countries, for some reason they forget about such things, and only gloating is observed. And then they talk about what kind of people they are in the soul and for world peace.
        27. Siberian 1975
          Siberian 1975 14 September 2014 12: 49
          0
          Let them feel in their own skin what they have done with our country.
      2. Duke
        Duke 11 September 2014 17: 04
        +17
        The Scots, unlike the British, spiritually glare to us. We honor one saint and have common flags.
        November 30 marks the day of St. Andrew the First-Called, patron saint of Scotland.
        St. Andrew was one of the 12 apostles of Jesus Christ. By profession, like his brother St. Peter, he was a fisherman. In addition to Scotland, St. Andrew is the heavenly guardian of Russia and Greece. Carrying the Christian faith, the apostle Andrew preached in Scythia, and according to legend, he set up a cross on the Kiev hills, went to the area where Novgorod was later founded.
        The relics of St. Andrew are stored in St. Andrews and in Edinburgh
        It is believed that Andrew suffered a martyrdom: in 62 AD in the Greek city of Patras he was crucified on a diagonal cross, which later became his symbol and now appears on the national flag of Scotland. The pagan ruler of the city of Egeat, seeing the effect of Andrew’s sermons on the inhabitants, ordered him arrested and crucified. Two days Andrew hung on the cross, teaching the townspeople the Christian faith.

        The first official flag with the image of St. Andrew's Cross was the flag of the Kingdom of Scotland. According to legend, in 832, King Angus II, who led the Picts and Scottish army, before the battle with the Angles, led by Ethelstan, prayed to God on the night before the battle for victory in the battlefield, and vowed that in case of victory he would announce the holy Apostle Andrew The First-Called Patron of Scotland. In the morning, the clouds over the battlefield formed the letter “X” in the blue sky, repeating the shape of the cross on which, in 70, the holy Apostle Andrew the First-Called was crucified in the Greek city of Patras. The Picts and Scottes were inspired by this divine omen, and the English were in awe. As a result, the army of Angus II, inferior in number to the army of the Angles, won the battle and the holy Apostle Andrew the First-Called was proclaimed the patron saint of Scotland. However, the oldest known historical example of using the image of St. Andrew on the cross as a Scottish national symbol is the seal of the Scottish Guard of the 1286 of the year, and for the first time the red flag with the St. Andrew's Cross was fixed in the 1503 year.

        Symbols of St. Andrew's flag are rooted in antiquity. Apostle Andrew was the brother of the Apostle Peter - Peter the Guardian. And Tsar Peter I also considered him his divine patron. Both brothers fished in the Sea of ​​Galilee, which led to their patronage of sea trade. Andrew was the first to be called to himself by Christ. Because of this, he was called the First Called. According to Bible legend, Apostle Andrew is also the patron saint of lands inhabited by Slavs. In Kiev, he left a pectoral cross, after which, when he visited Novgorod and the Volkhov located nearby, he also left a pectoral cross (now it is the village of Gruzino, where the Church of St. Andrew the First-Called) was built. Apostle Andrew became famous after relentless preaching of Christianity in his journey and the adoption of martyrdom on the cross.
        1. FREGATENKAPITAN
          FREGATENKAPITAN 11 September 2014 18: 02
          +7
          .... Many Scots glorified their names in the history of Russia. The first Russian general Alexander (Avraam Ulyanovich) Leslie (d. 1663) and the first commander of the Semenovsky Guards Regiment John (. Ivan Ivanovich) Chambers (1650-after 1713); tutors of Peter the Great in military art Paul {Pavel Gavrilovich) Menezius (16371694) and Patrick {Peter Ivanovich) Gordon (1635-1699); famous naval commanders - the hero of Chesma and Gogland Samuel {Samuel Karlovich) Greig (1735-1788) and the organizer of the naval forces of the North American States, and then, Vice Admiral Catherine the Great Paul Jones (1747-1792); the founders of the oldest Russian private porcelain factory in Verbilki Francis {Franz Yakovlevich) Gardner (XVIII century) and the Neva industrial empire Charles {Karl Nikolaevich) Bird (1766-1843); President of the St. Petersburg Medical and Surgical Academy, James {Yakov Vasilievich) Willie (17681854) and professor of the Mathematics and Navigation School of Peter the Great, scientist from Eberdin Henry {Andrei Danilovich) Farvarson (mid-1739th century-17461812); the author of the designs for the palace complexes of Pavlovsk and Tsarskoye Selo, the architect Charles Cameron (1753) and his colleague, who worked in the Peterhof and Tsarskoye Selo park ensembles, Edam {Adam Adamovich) Menelas (1831-1827); the famous photographer William Andreevich Carrick (1878-1806) and the actual head of the Alexander Cannon Factory in Petrozavodsk, Charles Gascoigne (ser. XVIII c-1792); the author of the first geological map of European Russia, Roderick Impi Murchison (1871-18171899) and the creators of the largest department stores in Moscow and St. Petersburg, Andrew Muir (1797) and Archibald Meriliz (1877-XNUMX), also belonged to this nation

          DisserCat Scientific Library of Dissertations and Abstracts http://www.dissercat.com/content/shotlandtsy-v-rossii-kontsa-xv-nachala-xviii-ve
          kov # ixzz3D12GKzpl ...... Well, about Lermontov, we won’t even mention it! You +100500
          1. Duke
            Duke 11 September 2014 18: 24
            +5
            Quote: FREGATENKAPITAN
            ..Many Scots glorified their names in the history of Russia.

            Barclay de Tolly Mikhail Bogdanovich (1761, Pamushis of the Livonia province, - 14.5.1818, Insterburg, East Prussia), Russian Field Marshal (1814), Prince (1815), hero of the Patriotic War 1812. Came from an old Scottish clan who moved to Riga in the 17 century. In military service with 1776. He participated in the Russian-Turkish war 1787 — 91 and the Russian-Swedish war 1788 — 90. He distinguished himself during the war with France at 1806 — 07 at Preisisch-Eylau, with 1807 he commanded a division. During the Russian-Swedish war 1808 — 09 commanded the corps; led the successful crossing of the Kvarken Strait in the winter of 1809. In 1809 — 10 the Governor General of Finland. From January 1810 to September, 1812 Minister of War, did a great job to strengthen the Russian army. In World War II, 1812 commanded the 1-th Western Army, and the 2-th Western Army was subordinated to him, as Minister of War. In conditions of significant superiority of the enemy, he showed the talent of a commander and successfully carried out the withdrawal and connection of the two armies. However, the retreat caused discontent in the noble circles and the army, and 17 August B. de T. passed command of the armies to M.I. Kutuzov. In the battle of Borodino, he commanded the right wing of the Russian army, showing stamina and art in defense. He acknowledged the position chosen by L. L. Bennigsen at Moscow as unsuccessful and supported the proposal of M.I. Kutuzov to leave Moscow at the military council at Fili. In September, 1812 left the army due to illness. In February, 1813 was appointed commander of the 3, and then the Russian-Prussian army, which he successfully commanded during the overseas campaigns of the Russian army 1813 — 14 (Kulm, Leipzig, Paris). He was buried in the estate of Beklor in Livonia (now Jõgevest of the Estonian SSR). On the grave is a monument-mausoleum (1823, sculptor V.I. Demut-Malinovsky). Monuments of B. de T. also built in Leningrad in front of the Kazan Cathedral (1837, sculptor B.I. Orlovsky) and in Tartu (1849, sculptor V.I. Demut-Malinovsky).
      3. Very old
        Very old 11 September 2014 17: 10
        +10
        YURI, and here is another Fuse near Europa - a grand rally in Barcelona demanding immediate separation from monarchical Spain - about 1 people took to the streets.

        Hey interface wake up - the jokes are over
        1. FREGATENKAPITAN
          FREGATENKAPITAN 11 September 2014 18: 10
          +6
          And these are echoes of the Civil War of 1936-39 ........ Catalonia has always been considered workers and peasants, there were always strong communist ideas, so to speak, the Red Belt of Spain .......... Europe is mired in its dirty games going on about the USA forgetting about their centuries-old and new problems .... There are also the Basques, Flanders in Belgium, and Gibraltar ........ In vain they have turned a hornet's nest!
        2. Interface
          Interface 11 September 2014 18: 21
          -8
          Hey interface wake up - the jokes are over


          The virtual marshal decided to stir up.

          For some, it’s not enough for some to say that if things go further in Europe, then the tendency towards separatism may come to the Russian Federation.

          But we have a common information space with Europe, or have you forgotten?
          I just got tired of hinting already, well, some do not understand.
          1. Very old
            Very old 11 September 2014 18: 33
            +10
            Well, I just can't understand - and what is this old woman-England all its history: "divide and rule"?

            But when it touched ... Yes, and Ulster will not endure for a long time
            Well dumb me, Dumb
            YOU understand INTERFASE 7
          2. FREGATENKAPITAN
            FREGATENKAPITAN 11 September 2014 19: 14
            +6
            Here, good comrade, you are deeply mistaken ... We went through this page with the exits, then with the blood of thousands of Russians, Chechens ..... And this taught us a lot .... go to Kazan or Ufa ask around for dependence, or the Chechens ...... You won’t be able to get any gingerbread away ........ A couple of three-year-old foul-bellies for independent Siberia or Königsberg is just ridiculous ......
          3. vadik191007
            vadik191007 12 September 2014 16: 52
            +1
            what does the information space have to do with it, probably despite the fact that your friends in the geyrop are the same downs as you, and you will shit in GREAT RUSSIA with a whole bunch with the hope that someone will enslave IT
      4. And Us Rat
        And Us Rat 11 September 2014 17: 14
        +4
        Quote: Fuse
        Down with the English junta! Scotland will be free!

        The heat has gone! laughing Militias are already getting ready. laughing


        1. VICTOR-61
          VICTOR-61 11 September 2014 17: 38
          +5
          I liked it, plus it’s time for us, too, to impose sanctions on England if it prohibits Scotland from gaining independence and accusing the English junta of fascist bandervshchina who encroaches on democracy
      5. Korvin1000
        Korvin1000 11 September 2014 17: 33
        +5
        Great precedent for Ukraine. Then immediately it will be clear what is the difference between civilized Europe and Ukraine
      6. Denimax
        Denimax 11 September 2014 18: 54
        0
        With the separation of Scotland, the ambitions of England, of course, will also diminish. But how realistic is this separation? Maybe it's all a political farce.
      7. Erg
        Erg 12 September 2014 07: 50
        0
        Free from what? What, specifically, will ordinary citizens receive besides satisfying their patriotic ambitions? Well, Ukraine became free, in due time ...
    2. igordok
      igordok 11 September 2014 15: 46
      +31
      Quote: portoc65
      Could not raise the banner of Scotland. Bad sign for the Saxons

      And she raised, and victory will be for her (I hope).

      - God save Scotland from the queen!

      Today is the day of quotes!
      1. Sobol
        Sobol 11 September 2014 17: 07
        +6
        Quote: igordok
        Quote: portoc65
        Could not raise the banner of Scotland. Bad sign for the Saxons

        And she raised, and victory will be for her (I hope).

        - God save Scotland from the queen!

        Today is the day of quotes!

        Here! And the girls in Scotland are pretty (not that Aglitsky) Come on, get separated already. And then Ireland will catch up, and in general everything will be fine!
        1. The comment was deleted.
    3. DVxa
      DVxa 11 September 2014 15: 47
      +13
      There will be no disconnection .. Just as there was no separation of Catalonia from Spain ..
      This is a bad example for other countries. The "elite of the world" will not allow themselves this ..
      1. Walking
        Walking 11 September 2014 15: 55
        +14
        Let's wait for the results.
      2. Powder
        Powder 11 September 2014 17: 01
        +5
        Events are moving in the right direction. Crimea also determined this direction. The "elite of the world" will allow something, or will not allow anyone who does not care, the carriage has started, the perron will remain.
      3. asadov
        asadov 11 September 2014 20: 16
        0
        most likely it will be so. Even if the Scots vote to secede to them, no one will allow it to be done. There will be something like Ukraine. And Ireland will play the role of Russia
    4. sgazeev
      sgazeev 11 September 2014 16: 43
      +12
      Quote: portoc65
      Could not raise the banner of Scotland. Bad sign for the Saxons

      Oh, why am I not a Russian Scot and Scottish Russian, I would vote a million times for an independent Scotland. Yes, I will not incur the Hamilton, Nelson, Churchill, Cameron for cynicism, snobbery, duplicity. Scots fellows piz ..... whether Anglo-Saxons and now for them the last fight, to be or not to be Scotland.
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 11 September 2014 17: 56
        +9
        Everything will be good. The ancestors of the Scots even beat the Roman legions in the prime of their power. So much so that the Roman emperor ordered a wall to be fenced off, called the Wall of Hadrian.
    5. Civil
      Civil 11 September 2014 17: 44
      -4
      Already Scotland announced accession to sanctions and support for NATO
      1. Past_ Crocodile
        Past_ Crocodile 12 September 2014 00: 03
        0
        Do not bother people to rejoice)
    6. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 11 September 2014 17: 56
      +6
      Having gained independence, Scotland will save the world from new wars ...Duncan McCloud at the post ... wassat
    7. Spnsr
      Spnsr 11 September 2014 18: 33
      +2
      may not be the topic, but I think it is relevant!
    8. optimist # 1
      optimist # 1 11 September 2014 19: 03
      0
      Scotland promised to support anti-Russian sanctions

      they are enemies to us, not friends


      Scotland is opposed to Russian policy in Ukraine and, if independent, is ready to support European sanctions against Moscow. According to The Guardian, Scottish Prime Minister Alex Salmond said this at a press conference.
    9. 79512075984
      79512075984 11 September 2014 19: 26
      +3
      during the Poroshenko’s Yenoguration, the soldier fainted, in the Poroshenko Cathedral the son fainted, and the next time Poroshenko will fall unpredictably ......
    10. Kindof
      Kindof 14 September 2014 01: 03
      0
      But the same author wrote a similar thing to our President ..
      http://www.worldandwe.com/ru/page/neskolko_sovetov_prezidentu_putinu_rossiya_zai
      gralas_v_mezhdunarodnoe_pravo.html

      Such an anti-globalist mass-entertainer ...
      Or maybe pop Gapon of the 21st century ..
  2. vorobey
    vorobey 11 September 2014 15: 34
    +30
    will be bombing however ... a trend ...

    On the move will be a horse .. Ossetia and Novorossia immediately recognize the independence of Scotland and Scotland recognizes the independence of Abkhazia, Ossetia and New Russia.
    1. portoc65
      portoc65 11 September 2014 15: 38
      +15
      They’ll lose the base of the submarines .... and the flag’s color should supposedly change .. the element of the flag of Scotland will disappear ... and a moral blow .. The Queen will no longer mention in her title that she is Shotlan.
      1. mad
        mad 11 September 2014 15: 46
        +18
        Quote: portoc65
        Lose submarine base

        I hope that upon the withdrawal of nuclear weapons from Scotland, the Foreign Ministry will gently spread information in Europe that our missiles are no longer aimed at the territory of this state. Moreover, there are more priority goals ... for example, in Poland! wink
      2. Stiletto
        Stiletto 11 September 2014 15: 49
        +10
        Quote: portoc65
        The Queen will no longer mention in her title that she is Shotlan.


        What a sorrow! laughing No matter how the grandmother moved the horses from frustration, and Cameron - from fierce anger and hatred. Yes, and the black owner of the White House at the withers of the poodle for such a feint will not stroke, Ferguson, Texas and Alaska are next in line ...
        1. Bkmz
          Bkmz 11 September 2014 16: 19
          +4
          You have probably mixed up who will iron someone. The USA is a weapon of small Britain, it’s out of business itself, while Europe is in a knee-elbow position. Small Britain is the dark cardinal of the Saxon world.
      3. Wiruz
        Wiruz 11 September 2014 16: 02
        +3
        No, the flag color is unlikely to change, although it is necessary according to the idea. Everyone is used to blue-white-red.
      4. FREGATENKAPITAN
        FREGATENKAPITAN 11 September 2014 18: 14
        +6
        Do not forget that the United States also has the same nuclear submarine base in Holy Loch, Scotland ............. personally had the good fortune to watch it at the periscope wink
    2. ispaniard
      ispaniard 11 September 2014 15: 44
      +17
      William Wallace looks at you sons and daughters of Scotland! Do not let him down and finally conquer your freedom from the stinking "Wells".
      -FREEEEEEEDOOOOM !!!
      1. i80186
        i80186 11 September 2014 15: 52
        +9
        They also have Ireland with their IRA.
        1. ispaniard
          ispaniard 11 September 2014 16: 52
          +4
          A little information about where the genus M.Yu. Lermontov
          Coloring (Tartan) of his ancestral Kilt. (In the photo, clickable).

          The Lermontov family dates back to the Middle Ages and is legendary in its origins - it begins with the Scottish poet Thomas Lermont, nicknamed the rhymer or Thomas the Poetmaker of Aersildown. In the words of Walter Scott, "Few are as celebrated in tradition as Thomas of Earsildown." His work and life are shrouded in a veil of secrecy, for in the personality of this significant person of his time poetic talent and the gift of foresight were combined. He represented something like the then Nostradamus, a sage and seer, and predicted the tragic and unexpected death of King Alexander III. Thomas predicted the union of Scotland and England, which was destined to be carried out by a descendant of the Bruce family.
      2. Basarev
        Basarev 11 September 2014 17: 58
        +1
        And by the way about Wales. Welsh are going to continue to faithfully serve the British?
      3. sgazeev
        sgazeev 11 September 2014 18: 00
        +2
        Quote: ispaniard
        William Wallace looks at you sons and daughters of Scotland! Do not let him down and finally conquer your freedom from the stinking "Wells".
        -FREEEEEEEDOOOOM !!!

        And Scottish blood Mikhail Yurievich Lermontov.
        Why am I not a bird, not a raven of the steppe,
        Flying over me now?
        Why can't I soar in heaven
        And just freedom to love?

        I would rush west, west
        Where the fields of my ancestors bloom
        Where in the empty castle on the foggy mountains
        Their forgotten dust rests.

        On the ancient wall is their hereditary shield,
        And their rusted sword hangs.
        I would fly over a sword and shield
        And I would brush off the dust with their wing;

        And the harp of the Scottish string would hurt,
        And the sound would fly over the vaults;
        Heed by one, and one awakened,
        As he heard, he would have shut up.

        But dreams are futile, pleas are useless
        Against the strict laws of fate.
        Between me and the hills of my homeland
        Waves of the seas are spreading.

        The last descendant of the brave fighters
        It fades in the midst of alien snows;
        I was born here, but an alien soul ...
        ABOUT! why am I not a raven of the steppe?
  3. Vend
    Vend 11 September 2014 15: 35
    +15
    Alas, it will not save. There was once a "referendum" in Kosovo, and it was recognized. And the Crimea referendum was not recognized. Even with the secession of Scotland, which I really hope for, the policy of double standards will not disappear. Only the departure of the US and the EU from the political arena can ensure peace.
    1. portoc65
      portoc65 11 September 2014 15: 42
      +8
      This will never happen ... You just need to change the world from unipolar to multipolar ..and add and support new players who will confront the Americans
      1. Vend
        Vend 11 September 2014 16: 08
        +6
        Quote: portoc65
        This will never happen ... You just need to change the world from unipolar to multipolar ..and add and support new players who will confront the Americans

        What will not happen? Withdrawal from the political arena of the US and the EU? Will be. In the US, the economy will collapse, and it will be necessary to pay for debts. But the EU will simply cease to exist, an old patchwork Europe will appear. Already, countries are seeking to leave the EU. Popular political forces are rising demanding an exit from the EU. A matter of time.
    2. Wiruz
      Wiruz 11 September 2014 16: 00
      +1
      And Scotland is not going to differ in any way from the rest of "progressive" Europe. Homobracks are legalized there, they want to go to the EU, they also want to join NATO, recently they said that an independent Scotland would support sanctions against the Russian Federation.
    3. DV69
      DV69 11 September 2014 17: 10
      +6
      Quote: Wend
      Alas, it will not save. There was once a "referendum" in Kosovo, and it was recognized. And the Crimea referendum was not recognized. Even with the secession of Scotland, which I really hope for, the policy of double standards will not disappear. Only the departure of the US and the EU from the political arena can ensure peace.


      There was no referendum in Kosovo. No need to repeat Obama’s mistakes.
      1. Vend
        Vend 11 September 2014 17: 30
        +4
        Quote: DV69
        Quote: Wend
        Alas, it will not save. There was once a "referendum" in Kosovo, and it was recognized. And the Crimea referendum was not recognized. Even with the secession of Scotland, which I really hope for, the policy of double standards will not disappear. Only the departure of the US and the EU from the political arena can ensure peace.


        There was no referendum in Kosovo. No need to repeat Obama’s mistakes.

        Take a look at my post again. The word "referendum" in Kosovo is in quotation marks, as it is now. And the referendum in Crimea is written without quotation marks. Do you understand the meaning? Before you write, it would be nice to learn how to read. wink
  4. mingalev
    mingalev 11 September 2014 15: 40
    +6
    It is strange that none of the Western politicians yells in advance about the 146% "in favor" in this referendum.
  5. Giant thought
    Giant thought 11 September 2014 15: 41
    +10
    Long live independent Scotland! We wish the Scots victory in a referendum, they will have the future of planet Earth in their hands with ballots.
  6. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 11 September 2014 15: 42
    +9
    Go ahead, Scotland. Get freedom from all English. Will North Sea oil become Scottish? The poor angles. Their ambitions are blown away like a pierced balloon.
  7. Neighbor
    Neighbor 11 September 2014 15: 42
    +5
    Yes, England without Scotland is no longer Great Britain and will leave it in its composition by any fate.
  8. parusnik
    parusnik 11 September 2014 15: 44
    +16
    - God save Scotland from the queen! And from the USA ...
  9. surovts.valery
    surovts.valery 11 September 2014 15: 44
    +9
    In general, the whole history of the confrontation between England and Scotland is the history of the confrontation between elites. Even in the movie "Braveheart" it can be seen. The Stuarts would have won, maybe England is now holding a referendum on independence. It looks like medieval civil strife in Britain ended only in the 18th century. And here, by the way, much earlier, in the 16th century. And which of us is more backward?
  10. mig31
    mig31 11 September 2014 15: 46
    +7
    Yes, indeed, if the Britons lose Scotland, wait for the collapse and the states, maybe not so quickly, but in the future, and then, if not already, the collapse of all the Angosakian alliances of all kinds is inevitable ...
  11. Mama_Cholli
    Mama_Cholli 11 September 2014 15: 47
    +8
    I think that Scotland will remain part of the united kingdom.
    The will of the people for the triumph of "democracy" can be neglected, as it was before in Kosovo and in the southeast of Ukraine.
    Let's see what happens this time, I don’t think that anything will change dramatically.
    1. sl2t
      sl2t 11 September 2014 17: 13
      +2
      If our media do not lie, and the majority vote for, then, most likely, the divorce will take place. Pure psychology: the result of this referendum will be final, i.e. the Scots have no right to hold a new referendum. To reunite later is possible, to divorce - never. People don't like irreversible decisions. The only question is - do the Scots have their own Churov?
      1. Mama_Cholli
        Mama_Cholli 11 September 2014 18: 01
        0
        We'll see. There is no doubt about the Scottish Churov. Look how openly the State Department officials are telling the truth. and if you recall the events preceding the invasion of Iraq (mine in England with the shock of a flask with samples), then I think the candidacy of the Scottish Churov is no longer vacant.
        Moreover, the queue is worth it ... smile
      2. Basarev
        Basarev 11 September 2014 18: 03
        +1
        Let Scotland become their personal Crimea for the British!
  12. Warlock_r
    Warlock_r 11 September 2014 15: 47
    +6
    But hope God, and don’t be fooled!

    Scotland, come to us, to Russia. :)
  13. Evgen4ik
    Evgen4ik 11 September 2014 15: 48
    +13
    A very important event. One of the most important. There is an option to bury the British Empire. Lavrov must go to Scotland with cookies. urgently.
  14. matross
    matross 11 September 2014 15: 50
    +6
    Does anyone seriously believe that the Scots will be allowed to secede, and Santa Claus exists?
    1. Old warrior
      Old warrior 11 September 2014 16: 21
      +1
      Yes! And who is Santa Claus? winked
      1. matross
        matross 11 September 2014 17: 09
        0
        A bearded lover of deer, Coca-Cola and put in a sock ... a Scandinavian pervert, in general lol
  15. morpogr
    morpogr 11 September 2014 15: 50
    +6
    Freedom and independence to proud Scots! smile
  16. Past_ Crocodile
    Past_ Crocodile 11 September 2014 15: 53
    +10
    Very unexpected. May God grant them determination and reason. The reaction of the Welsh and Irish is interesting.
  17. nvb
    nvb 11 September 2014 15: 54
    +6
    From childhood I liked Scotland and they have the Andreevsky flag, and they hate the Anglo-Saxons like Russians, generally the right guys.
  18. fridge
    fridge 11 September 2014 15: 54
    0
    So the SCOTLES are seeing good I hope Cameron does not think of bombing them. In Ukraine, he approved such actions. Let's see how he reacts. Our Foreign Ministry also needs to show it.
  19. AIR ZNAK
    AIR ZNAK 11 September 2014 15: 55
    +5
    Scotland, if Britain and her friends unleash a large BAA, BOOM will still suffer from radioactive contamination by falling radioactive fallout from the atmosphere. England is nearby and the wind blows in different directions. But since they are all the same neighbors in one empire, let alone decide what to do next. Here are just polls suggesting that London was late with the granting of expanded powers to Scotland. However, Kiev, too
    1. Oleg14774
      Oleg14774 11 September 2014 16: 04
      0
      Quote: AIR-ZNAK
      BOOM will still suffer from radioactive contamination by falling radioactive fallout from the atmosphere

      Not the point, but the statement itself. And they will suffer from rainfall and infection even in Brazil, where there are a lot of wild monkeys (although now they are already in the states in the white house, for example)!
    2. sl2t
      sl2t 11 September 2014 17: 23
      +1
      The whole earth will suffer! And with the fact that the Angles were late with the expansion of the rights of the Scots, I agree unequivocally. The national question is one of the most tender.
  20. Romann
    Romann 11 September 2014 15: 56
    0
    as Comrade Stalin said: it is important not how they vote, but who counts.
  21. Yves762
    Yves762 11 September 2014 15: 56
    0
    Generally speaking, the tendency is sad: "Crimea", "South Ossetia" for the Russian Federation is probably good. But “Yugoslavia” and, perhaps, “Scotland” are not very ...
    Or did everyone decide that the Federal Center has love with the Chechen Republic forever?
  22. KOH
    KOH 11 September 2014 15: 56
    +1
    May the God of Scotland free himself from the Anglo-Saxons ...
  23. Altona
    Altona 11 September 2014 15: 56
    +2
    God save the Scotland from queen! Gorgeous man wrote an article ... Stop humiliating yourself in front of London! Down with the British monarchy!
  24. Wiruz
    Wiruz 11 September 2014 15: 57
    +5
    Britain is falling apart, Spain is on the way, Italy also seems to be planning. Fine! We will avenge the West for the collapse of the Russian Empire and for the collapse of the USSR!

    Z.Y. We will divide Europe, and we will take up the States bully
    1. Belopolyak
      Belopolyak 11 September 2014 16: 02
      +2
      Unlike us, their division is formal, they draw the border and separate budgets and that’s all.
  25. MIV999
    MIV999 11 September 2014 15: 59
    +9
    Amazing moment:
    There are probably more supporters of Scotland’s independence now living in Russia than even in Scotland itself !!!
    For example, I only recently learned that our great poet Lermontov came from Scotland, and that FESTIVALS are held there ANNUALLY in his honor was simply amazed)) ...
    Long live independent Scotland !!!
  26. nomad74
    nomad74 11 September 2014 15: 59
    +5
    Quote: portoc65
    They’ll lose the base of the submarines .... and the flag’s color should supposedly change .. the element of the flag of Scotland will disappear ... and a moral blow .. The Queen will no longer mention in her title that she is Shotlan.


    They won’t lose, the Angles said that they would consolidate the territory of the base with a separate legislative act, and the queen remained even Scottish even after separation. But in general, the article is very emotional, God forbid, separation!
  27. Ivan Tucha
    Ivan Tucha 11 September 2014 16: 00
    +20
    Does Scotland have a new William Wallace?
  28. ybrcfy27
    ybrcfy27 11 September 2014 16: 06
    +3
    Yes, they won’t allow you, you can still believe in unicorns: with these referenda and other crap they twist as they want for their own benefit, they could understand for a long time
  29. DMB-75
    DMB-75 11 September 2014 16: 06
    +5
    Scots, keep it up, only independence, the whole WORLD is looking at you, do not fail: drinks
  30. Goodmen
    Goodmen 11 September 2014 16: 09
    +5
    Still, the Irish would return Northern Ireland ...
  31. Federal
    Federal 11 September 2014 16: 10
    +6
    This is where our Foreign Ministry needs to work day and night with the aim of our national interests, which are in Scotland, for the sake of maintaining peace in the world. Since Matrasia and England encroach on the sovereignty of a freedom-loving people. We will not give offense to the Scottish people, we will protect them from the aggression of England and the United States. We will timely send non-lethal military assistance (body armor, night vision devices, flashlights, helmets, dry rations, AK-74, BM-21 Grad, MLRS 9K58 Smerch, 2S9 Nona-S, etc., etc. .)
  32. AAA
    AAA 11 September 2014 16: 10
    +8
    Yes ... the moment when on Down Street they decided to raise the St. Andrew's flag of Scotland, and it fell off was symbolic good BUT so simple Edinburgh will not be allowed to leave ... in wealthy families, the divorce process has been going on for years, the division of property is not an easy task. Scotland has its own nat. bank, pound sterling they print with their logo of the Bank of Scotland, but is directly related to the English. pound. And the tantrums about the nuclear fleet began years earlier ... how to share? Would London want to rent them? Scottish Sevastopol ... what
  33. SNG
    SNG 11 September 2014 16: 13
    +4
    Just in time for the 18th, GDP would drive up with an unofficial visit to drink beer
  34. IAlex
    IAlex 11 September 2014 16: 14
    +3
    I am 99% sure that they will not separate, incl. the conversation is not worth a damn ...
    1. bubla5
      bubla5 11 September 2014 16: 34
      0
      I completely agree, the money will do its job, and the country will remain part of the kingdom
      1. sl2t
        sl2t 11 September 2014 17: 38
        0
        I completely agree! It is urgent to allocate how much is needed for this good deal and to outbid the price!
        1. IAlex
          IAlex 11 September 2014 19: 13
          0
          Men in skirts - explains a lot ...
  35. Oml
    Oml 11 September 2014 16: 18
    +3
    It is time to fall apart this union, the puppet servant of Sysh himself.
  36. Old warrior
    Old warrior 11 September 2014 16: 25
    +5
    Went to learn Scottish ... what
  37. Selevc
    Selevc 11 September 2014 16: 27
    +3
    If Scotland gains real and not formal sovereignty, then its policy towards England can radically change ...
    If this happens, it will be a severe blow to the political structure of the West ... Following Scotland, Northern Ireland will raise the question of sovereignty 1000% and Wales may follow ... Especially various small British colonies scattered around the world can claim sovereignty. ..
    Further, an outbreak of sovereignty in Western Europe - Catalonia, Basques, Flanders, Venice and others ... is quite possible ... After all, if Scotland can peacefully and civilize gain sovereignty - why shouldn't it?
    This is all a huge blow to the EU - both political and economic !!! So I think that the UK is unlikely to give Scotland real sovereignty - rather, everything will be merged into a primitive formal farce ...
    Most likely, the referendum is recognized as formal regardless of its decision ... It will be held to show that we are here civilized Anglo-Saxons peacefully resolve their political issues while Slavic barbarians in eastern Europe are at war ...
  38. pexotinec
    pexotinec 11 September 2014 16: 29
    +1
    Quote: DVxa
    There will be no disconnection .. Just as there was no separation of Catalonia from Spain ..
    This is a bad example for other countries. The "elite of the world" will not allow themselves this ..


    But how did they stir. Cameron out of her way as she climbs and the queen panics. The path does not relax.
  39. kot28.ru
    kot28.ru 11 September 2014 16: 33
    +4
    Quote: Interface
    I don’t understand those who are sitting here and gloating, they say, Britain has broken up !!



    Have you forgotten how 23 years ago they made fun of us when the USSR fell apart?
    No need to be like nits! We are not them!

    Let there be Britain. My opinion. The British gave them everything: roads, universities, hospitals, schools, and they throw their own. Just like svidomye in 1991

    I will be glad drinks !!! Because thanks to the Naglosaks, I lost my homeland-USSR request and now they want to take RUSSIA from me and my child !!! am
    1. Sergey Vl.
      Sergey Vl. 11 September 2014 16: 59
      0
      And this one is from ... Slavic roots! So about whom did Nikolai Gogol say: "There are no bonds more holy than comradeship!"
    2. Dry_T-50
      Dry_T-50 13 September 2014 22: 09
      0
      That spoke to **** Thatcher, burn in hell ...
  40. Leonardo
    Leonardo 11 September 2014 16: 33
    +3
    Can you declare INDEPENDENCE? Can. And after that ... the whistle begins. It turns out ... "independence" ... still depends on something. I, personally, and my homies, sincerely wish the independence and prosperity of Scotland.
    BUT ... do you understand, ... WE (these are the post-Soviet republics) .. also acquired ... the so-called. independence ... but at the same time they became DEPENDENT on those .. who gives money. And ... as a result ... (sorry) FULL WOM ... Who the hell needs such "independence", from which the economy and agriculture, education and the social sphere suffer, and ... all kinds of ... reforms ... dictated by the new "Rome" represented by the EU? Oh, yes, and .... under the supervision of the "world gendarme" in the person of the United States?
  41. Major Yurik
    Major Yurik 11 September 2014 16: 34
    +1
    Depart from the Britons, I swear, although I don’t like it, I’ll crack the Scotch scotch! Well, then it would be nice to drink Irish beer, eventually to grunt! wassat
  42. Janislav
    Janislav 11 September 2014 16: 36
    0
    S'ya t'va from Scotland, nyakak si Shut-in g'a-landia sa poluchava! Ako sa glasuva "against" independence, some sha trebe all of Great Britain, drum with "royal titito", yes shame will live, all children will be born with plebeians. B'si as sa prekarakhme, schot ', n'li and niy mix with them, in one uniya, drum, ba'i!
  43. Neprostoy
    Neprostoy 11 September 2014 16: 45
    +2
    Let's not rush to the results, we will jinx it yet.
  44. Thompson
    Thompson 11 September 2014 16: 47
    0
    Quote: Interface
    I don’t understand those who are sitting here and gloating, they say, Britain has broken up !!



    Have you forgotten how 23 years ago they made fun of us when the USSR fell apart?
    No need to be like nits! We are not them!

    Let there be Britain. My opinion. The British gave them everything: roads, universities, hospitals, schools, and they throw their own. Just like svidomye in 1991

    Maybe not easy? How do we know what is going on there? But there is no smoke without fire
  45. Sergey Vl.
    Sergey Vl. 11 September 2014 16: 53
    +3
    In the First World War, the Scottish regiments, especially the orchestra, suffered heavy losses. They went on the attack to the sound of bagpipes and the pipers died on a par with the infantry. Brave people, would be brave enough to get rid of "eternal friends".
    1. Tyumen
      Tyumen 12 September 2014 06: 17
      0
      Well, that’s how they fought well in the Crimean War against Russia.
  46. Klim2011
    Klim2011 11 September 2014 16: 53
    -1
    From Scotland is divided or not, I nevermind the deepest, so on a smoking room to gossip no more. The author wrote a caramel-canteen tearful article, the Scots are a warlike nation and if it were not for the aggressive wars of small Britain, they would wet each other in internecine wars (which has always been)
    Article minus.
  47. secondoy
    secondoy 11 September 2014 16: 57
    0
    Quote: MIV999
    Amazing moment:
    There are probably more supporters of Scotland’s independence now living in Russia than even in Scotland itself !!!
    For example, I only recently learned that our great poet Lermontov came from Scotland, and that FESTIVALS are held there ANNUALLY in his honor was simply amazed)) ...
    Long live independent Scotland !!!

    This is very interesting, but can you give some kind of link?
  48. Pupon63
    Pupon63 11 September 2014 16: 57
    0
    Quote: portoc65
    The Queen will no longer mention in her title that she is Shotlan.

    The Queen, in the event of the separation of Scotland, will probably have a "mycardic heart ... that's such a scar ..." (from the movie "Love and Doves") ... what
  49. s30461
    s30461 11 September 2014 17: 00
    0
    Scotland, Ireland, Wales ...
    There are so many more options for creating a mosaic called the UK ...
    Right some kind of puzzle, ё-may.
    Well, gentlemen? Do you bet? There are at least three options:
    1. The most probable. Scotland gains independence by a majority vote and disassembly begins within its political elites and redistribution of property. Everything passes more or less peacefully and quietly. New proven reserves of gas and oil on adjacent shelves allow them to exist in fairly comfortable economic conditions. British military bases remain in place on loan. The British as they can spoil the blood of the Scots and are trying to conduct an orange revolution for the coming to power of the politicians they need. USA does not help England, because they do not care: the EU is bursting at the seams, the euro is falling. For them, all is well.
    2. An option of moderate severity. The referendum will give a negative result with a slight advantage in favor of England. Supporters of independence take up arms and begin a new phase in the struggle for freedom. Because all unrecognized republics immediately recognize the independence of Scotland, it will receive help and volunteers. They gain independence, the redistribution of property and the political struggle begin. But in this version - with blood and scale. English bases are closed. Offshore resources are developed on the basis of concession, as the young state will not have its own funds. Scotland lives modestly and ascetically, like Ireland.
    3. The most incredible option. The referendum was held, supporters of the United Kingdom won, everyone went to the pubs and made peace.
  50. Balbes_I
    Balbes_I 11 September 2014 17: 06
    +1
    I wonder if the United States recognize Scotland? And impose sanctions against the UK?
    1. vorobey
      vorobey 11 September 2014 17: 24
      +4
      sanctions will be introduced against Russia
      1. Militia
        Militia 11 September 2014 20: 13
        +3
        ..... and they will say that it was Russia that rushed off to Britain and told Scotland to secede.