Military Review

India criticizes FGFA again

84
With 2007, Russia and India are working together on the FGFA (Fifth-Generation Fighting Aircraft) fighter project. The purpose of this work is to create an export version of the T-50 aircraft, taking into account the wishes of the Indian military. Last winter, Indian media reported on some of the features of the FGFA project. It was argued that the Indian Air Force had some complaints about the project and was concerned that a number of the characteristics of the prospective fighter did not meet their requirements. In early September, similar information reappeared. According to Jane's, the Indian Air Force is again making claims to the joint Russian-Indian project.




Jane's publication, citing sources in the Indian Ministry of Defense, reports that a number of features of the joint project do not suit the military and is the cause of the claims. It is argued that the requirements of the customer in the face of the Indian Air Force are not satisfied with the AL-41F1 turbojet engines, the airborne radar, the level of stealth and the proposed weapon suspension systems. In addition, the Indian military is once again concerned about the delayed development of the project. It should be noted, it is not yet known what exactly the parameters of the promising fighter are not satisfied with the Indian Air Force. In addition, Jane's reporters failed to receive official comments from the Indian Air Force and HAL.

Previous claims by the Indian side were expressed at the end of this spring and related to the timing and cost of the project. The Russian aircraft manufacturers responded to these claims that the work is being carried out without serious difficulties, and all the existing problems are solved as soon as possible. Later, information appeared about new claims to a promising project: the Indian military spoke negatively about the specifics of operating the FGFA aircraft, as well as reducing India’s participation and refusing to provide some documentation. In addition, it was alleged that Russian aircraft manufacturers still have not informed their Indian colleagues about the reasons for the ignition of the experienced T-50 fighter in June of this year.

Of particular concern to the Indian military is the rising cost of the program. It was originally planned that the development of the FGFA fighter would cost India approximately 10-11 billions of US dollars. Since 2007, the estimated project cost for the Indian side has increased by about one billion. One of the consequences of this was a change in plans regarding the amount of equipment planned for the order. According to the latest plans, it is not the fifth-generation 220 fighters, as previously assumed, that will be acquired, but no more than 130-150. In addition, the possibility of abandoning the 45-50 training FGFA with a double cabin is being considered.

The Indian Ministry of Defense is concerned about the increased cost of the project and the insufficient characteristics of the aircraft being developed. At the same time, Indian aircraft manufacturers express their concern. The fact is that at the beginning of the project, in 2007, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) pledged to perform 25% of all project work. According to the latest data, the share of HAL has now decreased to 13%. Thus, Indian enterprises will have to supply only some radio-electronic systems, and almost all the main components of the equipment will be produced by the Russian industry. This feature of the project, as well as the possibility of further reducing the share of Indian participation, is causing concern and complaints from HAL.

Jane's reports that the Indian side, which had previously complained about the various features of the joint project, has already received clarifications from Russian colleagues. So, it is known that the engines AL-41F1, which became one of the objects of claims, are a temporary solution and in the future will give way to new engines with higher performance. The new engine for the FGFA fighter is already being developed, and the existing AL-41F1 will be used only at the stage of the first tests of the aircraft. As for the radar with an active phased antenna array, its development and improvement continues. By the time of the start of mass production of aircraft characteristics of the system will be brought to the desired level.

As already mentioned, the Indian military is not the first time expressing their claims to the project of a promising fighter. Late last year and this spring, the Indian Air Force has already discussed the compliance of the FGFA project with the expectations of the military. From these discussions, certain conclusions were made, which were recently reiterated by the source of Jane's publication in the military department of India. At the moment, the FGFA project has several controversial features that do not allow starting customers of the new fighter to quietly fulfill their obligations under the existing contract and wait for the appearance of the machine.

The concern of the command of the Indian Air Force is not without reason. Indeed, the FGFA project is currently at its earliest stages, has a lot of “childhood diseases” and therefore requires a lot of effort, time and money. The first test flight of the fifth generation fighter will take place no earlier than the end of the current decade, which to some extent may indicate the degree of development of the project at a given point in time.

As the project develops and the components of the aircraft planned to be used are improved, all concerns for the Indian side will have to disappear, in addition to the likely increase in the project cost. The development of a fifth-generation fighter, even on the basis of an existing machine, is an extremely complex and expensive task, the solution of which requires serious funding.

It is noteworthy that the latest statements by officials and unnamed sources about claims to the FGFA project may have a political motive. With the help of Russian aircraft manufacturers, India in recent years has been able to modernize its aviation industry. The latter, in turn, is already developing its own fifth-generation fighter project. According to recent reports, an experienced AMCA fighter (Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft - "Perspective Medium Combat Aircraft") should first take off in the early twenties. In terms of a number of characteristics, the AMCA is noticeably inferior to the T-50 and FGFA, but its “origin” as a machine created by Indian engineers can have a serious impact on the final decision of the military.

Another potential competitor to the Russian-Indian FGFA is the American Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II fighter. India has already received a formal offer from the United States regarding the possible sale of this type of aircraft. It should be noted that the F-35 is not yet ready to supply the Indian Air Force and in terms of time can be considered a direct competitor to both FGFA and AMCA.

In the context of updating the fleet of the Indian Air Force and the FGFA project, a recent tender for the supply of fighters is sometimes mentioned, the winner of which was the French-made Dassault Rafale aircraft. In recent times, there have been repeated proposals to sign a contract for the supply of 126 Rafale and refuse to develop a joint Russian-Indian project. However, this sentence is meaningless because of the different classes and levels of Rafale and FGFA. In this case, the French technology can have a positive impact on the state of the Air Force over the next 10-15 years.

Regardless of the reasons for regularly reminding about the existing shortcomings of the FGFA project, the development of this aircraft is of great interest to India. As a result of the successful completion of this project, the Indian Air Force in the future will receive a modern fighter of the fifth generation with high performance. In addition, India does not buy the finished aircraft, but takes part in its development, having the opportunity to influence the appearance and technical characteristics. Finally, the planned deployment of the construction of serial FGFAs at HAL's production facilities will help Indian specialists to master new technologies.

However, recently the Indian military with an enviable regularity remind them of their claims to the FGFA project, and the list of these claims is almost not updated. The exact reasons for this are unknown, but such statements are unlikely to help to quickly deal with all the existing problems and complete the creation of a new aircraft. It should not be forgotten that it is India that is most interested in the successful completion of the FGFA project.


On the materials of the sites:
http://janes.com/
http://lenta.ru/
http://business-standard.com/
http://militaryparitet.com/
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
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  1. Cosmos1987
    Cosmos1987 9 September 2014 09: 56
    +5
    To let the Chinese know that although the T-50 modification is sold, the Indians will quickly bite their tongues
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 9 September 2014 10: 03
      +13
      Quote: Cosmos1987
      To let the Chinese know that although the T-50 modification is sold, the Indians will quickly bite their tongues

      It is impossible to come up with a stupider ... In this case, the Indians will take their money and go directly to the United States for the proposal on Lightning remains valid ... But we will lose 12 billion dollars, part of which goes to the development of PAK-FA ...
      1. Cosmos1987
        Cosmos1987 9 September 2014 10: 11
        +1
        Since 2007, Russia and India have been collaborating on the FGFA fighter project (Fifth-Generation Fighting Aircraft - “Fifth Generation Fighter”). The aim of these works is to create an export version of the T-50 aircraft, taking into account the wishes of the Indian military. Last winter, Indian media reported on some of the features of the FGFA project.
        so those 12 lards are investments in the Indian version, and most likely have already been spent. and PAK FA (T-50) is exclusively Russian development. And as for lightning, the Indians are not fools, unlike the US allies in NATO, although they (NATO allies) are bound by treaties and obligations, to take this coffin with wings
        1. Nayhas
          Nayhas 9 September 2014 10: 38
          +9
          Quote: Cosmos1987
          so those 12 lards are investments in the Indian version, and most likely have already been spent. and PAK FA (T-50) is exclusively Russian development.

          Sorry, but you keep writing nonsense ...
          India has so far paid only 300 million for preliminary engineering design, a total of 12 billion US dollars is planned to be spent on OCD, but so far the executive contract for the first 6 billion has not yet been signed, at least a month ago. PAK-FA is the basic machine on the basis of which FGFA will be designed, i.e. most of the planned 12 billion will go to reimburse the costs of designing PAK-FA, which really needs this money.
          In total, India planned to spend $ 34 billion on FGFA.
          Quote: Cosmos1987
          And as for lightning, the Indians are not fools, unlike the US allies in NATO, although they (NATO allies) are bound by treaties and obligations, to take this coffin with wings

          Continue to believe in it holy ... watch more TV and the truth will be revealed to you ...
          1. Cosmos1987
            Cosmos1987 9 September 2014 11: 21
            0
            "most of the planned 12 billion will go to reimburse the design costs of the PAK-FA"
            from this we can conclude that some of the rights to PAK-FA belong to india too, since they have invested their money in this, and then they can take away the documentation, percent of the sales of aircraft will go to india? so it goes?

            Continue to believe in it holy ... watch more TV and the truth will be revealed to you
            I judge by those. characteristics, and according to what conservative Western experts say, but again from the screens of our TVs. I have no other information. that I can add on my own to the F-35 one engine, this is not correct for a combat aircraft. IMHO
            1. Nayhas
              Nayhas 9 September 2014 11: 42
              +5
              Quote: Cosmos1987
              from this we can conclude that some of the rights to PAK-FA belong to india too, since they have invested their money in this, and then they can take away the documentation, percent of the sales of aircraft will go to india? so it goes?

              Of course not. India fictitiously claims only a fraction of FGFA sales (if it burns out with it), but not PAK-FA. And PAK-FA will not be sold on the foreign market (I hope) ...
              Quote: Cosmos1987
              that I can add on my own to the F-35 one engine, this is not correct for a combat aircraft. IMHO

              So on your MiG-21, F-16, Mirage-F1 (the most war machines) flawed initially?
              PS: failure of one engine often becomes fatal for a twin-engine machine ... not always of course ...
              1. iwind
                iwind 9 September 2014 13: 49
                +3
                Quote: Nayhas
                that I can add on my own to the F-35 one engine, this is not correct for a combat aircraft. IMHO

                the topic is not about F-35, but I’ll write a little bit.
                The engine is one, but very powerful, plus there is a program for upgrading the engine, more precisely, even two of them. One PW enthusiasm for engine power by 5-10% from 2018-2020, or GE with their 6th generation engine.
                But even so an interesting picture of the "small" combat load of the F-35
                bombs GBU-53 / SDB II.
                1. Alexander
                  Alexander 9 September 2014 14: 00
                  -2
                  Sense from one, but very powerful engine, if it fails? Modernization programs? I would say the program is to finish the mind of the engine and it is stretched. Yes, and they burn well. A small bomb load is visible not from the picture, but from the tonnage of the combat load, Vasnetsov.
                  1. iwind
                    iwind 9 September 2014 14: 17
                    +5
                    Quote: alexandr
                    Sense from one, but very powerful engine, if it fails? Modernization programs? I would say the program is to finish the mind of the engine and it is stretched. Yes, and they burn well. A small bomb load is visible not from the picture, but from the tonnage of the combat load, Vasnetsov.

                    The only fire for 18.000 flight hours is an excellent result for the new engine. so with reliability everything is ok.
                    Renouncement. Maybe then it's worth doing 10 engines? If it is reliable enough, why bother with a garden? F-135 will have no competitors in terms of power and for a long time to come.
                    Quote: alexandr
                    dopilivaniya to the mind of the engine and it is stretched

                    What is the addition? That is, the Pak-f engines of the second stage are the norm. And then the planned modernization, the technologists are developing. Is this doping? All modern aircraft undergo or have undergone engine modernization.
                    For the defeat of radar, air defense systems, hangars, etc. more than. Why carry extra kg of explosives?

                    ps All the same, the topic is not about F-35. It’s better to discuss ASP Z-V Pak-fa
                2. viktorrymar
                  viktorrymar 9 September 2014 14: 22
                  +3
                  Do not write nonsense:
                  Quote: iwind The engine is one, but very powerful, plus there is a program for upgrading the engine, more precisely, even two of them. One PW craze for engine power at 5-10%

                  Engine power for different types of F-35
                  F135-PW-100 for F-35A traction 12 700 / 19 500 kgs afterburner
                  F135-PW-400 for F-35C thrust 12 700 / 19 500 kgs afterburner
                  F135-PW-600 for F-35B thrust 12 250 / 18 600 kgs afterburner, thrust short
                  takeoff 18 470 kgf, thrust 18 400 kgf (8470 kgf axial motor, 8470 kgf lifting fan, 1 500 kgf side nozzles)

                  normal take-off weight:
                  F-35A: 24350 kg
                  F-35B: 22240 kg
                  F-35C: 25896 kg
                  maximum take-off weight:
                  F-35A: about 29100 kg [86]
                  F-35B: about 27215 kg [86]
                  F-35C: about 30320 kg [86]
                  The engine thrust in relation to the mass of the aircraft with a combat load of less than one, even on the afterburner, which fifth generation can be discussed, and even if they add 20% to the engine, it’s still less than one thrust!

                  1. iwind
                    iwind 9 September 2014 14: 57
                    +1
                    What is stupid?
                    Quote: viktorrymar
                    Do not write nonsense:
                    Quote: iwind The engine is one, but very powerful, plus there is a program for upgrading the engine, more precisely, even two of them. One PW craze for engine power at 5-10%

                    Engine power for different types of F-35
                    F135-PW-100 for F-35A traction 12 700 / 19 500 kgs afterburner
                    F135-PW-400 for F-35C thrust 12 700 / 19 500 kgs afterburner
                    F135-PW-600 for F-35B thrust 12 250 / 18 600 kgs afterburner, thrust short
                    takeoff 18 470 kgf, thrust 18 400 kgf (8470 kgf axial motor, 8470 kgf lifting fan, 1 500 kgf side nozzles)

                    normal take-off weight:
                    F-35A: 24350 kg
                    F-35B: 22240 kg
                    F-35C: 25896 kg
                    maximum take-off weight:
                    F-35A: about 29100 kg [86]
                    F-35B: about 27215 kg [86]
                    F-35C: about 30320 kg [86]
                    The engine thrust in relation to the mass of the aircraft with a combat load of less than one, even on the afterburner, which fifth generation can be discussed, and even if they add 20% to the engine, it’s still less than one thrust!

                    Less than one. And then what? This is not a fighter gaining superiority in the sky.
                    No cr. Sound overwhelming? The same su 35 and 34, too, no.
                    F35 should fly as far and long as possible, on Sverzvuk this is not possible it is elementary physics.
                    1. supertiger21
                      supertiger21 9 September 2014 15: 55
                      +1
                      Iwind, I almost always agree with you, but this time you are wrong.

                      Quote: iwind
                      Sound overwhelming? The same su 35 and 34, too, no.


                      With the Su-35, it’s not quite so. As far as I know during tests, it gained 1100 km / h, it may not reach the level of supersonic sound, but at least it’s very close to it.
                      Well, the Su-34 doesn’t count. This is a front-line bomber, created all the more in 1989, so I don’t know for what reason you require supersonic sound from it ?!
                      Quote: iwind
                      F35 should fly as far and long as possible, on Sverzvuk this is not possible it is elementary physics.


                      I agree that I think that the F-35 is more of a strike aircraft. It was nevertheless created primarily against air defense systems and not against fighters, therefore, in my opinion, constant criticism of him as an air fighter is not relevant.
                      1. Nayhas
                        Nayhas 9 September 2014 18: 17
                        0
                        Quote: supertiger21
                        I agree that I think that the F-35 is more of a strike aircraft. It was still created primarily against air defense systems and not against fighters

                        And where does this conclusion come from? What does the F-35 have that does not allow him to solve perfectly well the tasks of intercepting enemy aircraft? Deprecated Doppler Radar? Lack of ECO? Out-of-date missiles with semi-active guidance system? Please explain your diagnosis.
                      2. iwind
                        iwind 9 September 2014 18: 41
                        +1
                        Good afternoon.
                        Now from the tablet, I can’t throw the link.
                        To test the su 35 reached a speed of 1100 km. When diving without combat load. Search the internet.
                        At F35, supersonic is available at 200 km afterburner, so it is also close.
                      3. Nitarius
                        Nitarius 10 September 2014 08: 18
                        -2
                        teach physics my goodness!
                        supersonic is over 360m / s or 1200km / h rude!
                        and what 200 do you only then ??
                      4. iwind
                        iwind 10 September 2014 09: 58
                        +3
                        Quote: Nitarius
                        teach physics my goodness!
                        supersonic is over 360m / s or 1200km / h rude!
                        and what 200 do you only then ??

                        hmm ... it seems difficult to apply logic to you .. it's a flight range.
                        The F-35, while not technically a "supercruising" aircraft, can maintain Mach 1.2 for a dash of 150 miles without using fuel-gulping afterburners.
                      5. Kir
                        Kir 10 September 2014 14: 55
                        0
                        Well, let's assume that the speed of sound depends on the altitude, and so more often they take 330m / s and then just in a rough estimate we go out at 1200km / s.
                    2. viktorrymar
                      viktorrymar 12 September 2014 14: 27
                      +1
                      Su-34
                      Fighter-bomber
                      Su-34 is a Russian fighter-bomber, also positioned as a front-line bomber.
                      Cruising speed: 1 300 km / h
                      Maximum speed: 2 200 km / h
                      Range: 4 000 km
                      Weight: 14 000 kg
                      Length: 23 m
                      Cost: 36 000 000-36 000 000 USD
                      Engine Type: AL-31F
                  2. iwind
                    iwind 9 September 2014 20: 21
                    +1
                    By the way, I just think the opposite, that cruiser. not everyone needs supersonic.
                    Range decreases too much during such a flight and other problems appear.
                  3. qwert
                    qwert 10 September 2014 12: 05
                    +1
                    Quote: supertiger21
                    I agree that I think that the F-35 is more of a strike aircraft. It was nevertheless created primarily against air defense systems and not against fighters, therefore, in my opinion, constant criticism of him as an air fighter is not relevant.

                    Only by the fact that it is positioned as a UNIVERSAL FIGHTER ... If we were offering the Su-34 or Yak-130 for sale as a multi-purpose fighter, then similar claims could be made against them. But, we are not Americans in PR. We call everything by their proper names, without trying to get in a strike or training aircraft, also as a fighter
                3. Lohamey Herut
                  Lohamey Herut 9 September 2014 18: 06
                  +3
                  Naturally, Lightning is a close strike aircraft. And to gain excellence there is a raptor
              2. patsantre
                patsantre 11 September 2014 15: 14
                0
                Quote: viktorrymar
                The thrust of the engine in relation to the mass of the aircraft with a combat load of less than one, even in afterburner, which fifth generation can be discussed

                So what?
            2. qwert
              qwert 10 September 2014 12: 00
              0
              Precisely a small load. This photograph reflects about half of what can be hung on one console of the old man Su-24. Those. 2t Cool, probably, but not for an attack plane ...
          2. Past_ Crocodile
            Past_ Crocodile 9 September 2014 17: 52
            0
            Duc, La-5 also fought, and that revive piston aircraft?
            Our project is 10 years younger than an American and should be better in everything. Anyway, the Americans have mediocre aircraft engineers.
            1. Sergei75
              Sergei75 9 September 2014 22: 33
              +3
              And our pip is longer ... Do not underestimate the "probable" enemy! US and NATO engineers were trendsetters in the military aircraft industry and their 5th generation has been smoking the sky for a long time already, but they cannot make an engine for our super-duper, and this is understandable, the engineering school has suffered a lot in 20 years, so we have a lot of managers!

              And the Indians are great, they do not let our sleep in one shoe!
      2. atarix
        atarix 10 September 2014 08: 21
        +1
        reading comments here is actually the answer to why claims arise.
        1 Indians want clarification on design features
        2 Indians do not want to pay, read enter into contracts for the first 6 billion.
        3 Indians want to design an airplane themselves with an eye on what they can do next without the participation of the Russian Federation.
        4 Indians again push their foreheads against the irreconcilable competitors of the United States and partly China, while getting its own benefit
    2. Lohamey Herut
      Lohamey Herut 9 September 2014 18: 03
      -3
      F-35 is almost ready and is already in production. And PAK FA didn’t go beyond the limits of the experimental glider
      1. Kir
        Kir 9 September 2014 18: 40
        0
        In practice, excuse me from the category, but on average, and how many years have passed since the victorious reports about just the most, and by the way, unfortunately, unlike in our homeland, it has not plunged into such chaos, and therefore it’s kind of like to measure that there is nothing!
        I don't see the point of putting a minus, but according to the terms it can be put on a stream, or it will be more accurate to stream production, and by the way, these terms are determined by the amount of "products".
      2. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 9 September 2014 20: 34
        +2
        Quote: Lohamey Herut
        F-35 is almost ready and is already in production.

        There is no streaming production, there was a pilot series, now the pilot production of the released series is trial, with a positive result, streaming production, they are almost ready for it, you are in a hurry.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 9 September 2014 21: 34
          +1
          More than 150 F-35 cars of various modifications were made.
      3. leon1204id
        leon1204id 10 September 2014 18: 39
        +1
        F35 of various modifications is still being developed on the go, the fate of the F35V is especially unclear. Our PAK FA is in the same flight or flight. The declared engines do not provide reliable flight at supersonic sound for a long time
  2. TECHNOLOGY
    TECHNOLOGY 14 September 2014 22: 08
    -1
    Either the pig is not the same, the horses are not so galloping. The Indians began to be rude. Under the mattresses they bend? Not that they are in the kingdom of India. We lost the scent. Not only we. China can say. But he can’t joke ...
  • Lindon
    Lindon 9 September 2014 10: 06
    +2
    Quote: Cosmos1987
    To let the Chinese know that although the T-50 modification is sold, the Indians will quickly bite their tongues


    Hindus will buy what they do themselves or where there is their participation - this is pretty reasonable.
    Most likely, Russia invited India because of the large package of orders for the 5-th generation - this is also very reasonable.
    Let's see what the Indians themselves succeed in, and then we will experience or rejoice.
    1. Cosmos1987
      Cosmos1987 9 September 2014 10: 16
      +1
      I agree, the Indians localize themselves in the production of FGFA, unlike the same n, e, n, d, o, s, o, in which they will put finished products, moreover, most likely the plane will be with an electronic archetic that would buy ammunition the same Americans
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 9 September 2014 23: 09
        0
        F-35 - the world's first combat jet aircraft with OPEN software architecture
        and electronics. You can install ANY weapon system on it
        (suitable in weight, of course). Therefore, the F-35 is going to buy the whole western
        peace.
        1. studentmati
          studentmati 9 September 2014 23: 14
          0
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Therefore, the F-35 is going to buy the whole western
          peace.


          The 35th one is not going to buy, it is rigidly imposed by the United States. By definition, a single-engine aircraft is fragments! And amers just need to merge their unfinished product in order to once again pump their own soap bubble.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 10 September 2014 12: 21
            0
            Why did you decide to call the single-engine MiG-21 "fragments"?
            It was one of the most successful Soviet fighters.
            Or F-16? The most common fighter bomber in the world?
            Make one engine efficiently and there will be no "splinters".

            On the F-35, the lineup of buyers, scheduled for years to come, although there is
            a large assortment of 4 ++ generation aircraft from all countries. Only there is no demand for them.
          2. patsantre
            patsantre 11 September 2014 15: 21
            -1
            Quote: studentmati
            By definition, a single-engine aircraft is fragments!

            Why don't American designers think so, or do you know better than them?
        2. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 9 September 2014 23: 16
          +5
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Therefore, the F-35 is going to buy the whole western
          peace.

          The key word here is "going" ...
          "Were going to eat the calf of the wolf ..." wassat
        3. Kir
          Kir 10 September 2014 03: 30
          0
          But the phrase is going to buy incorrectly, more than once it has been spoken and negotiated, the SGA puts only the F-35 on the foreign market, and the F-22, which they really would like to buy, is not for sale, and by the way, among the "those who are suffering to buy these things" voices of experts are heard which in fact openly call the F-35 a coffin, and besides, if he is all of himself. so why are they breaking contracts for others through the 5th column? Do you think someone in their right mind and sober memory will take not the best, even cheaper, especially since safety depends on it!
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 10 September 2014 19: 11
            0
            I believe that they will. Here is a list of buyers
            (except USA):
            Customer Variant Numbers

            UK B 138 (48 on order)
            Turkey A 100
            Australia A 100
            Italy A 60
            Italy B 30
            Netherlands A 37 (down from 85)
            Canada A 65
            Norway A 52
            Japan A 142 (42 on order)
            S Korea A 40 + 20 (optional)
            Denmark A 39
            Israel A 19
            1. Kir
              Kir 10 September 2014 19: 19
              0
              Buyers? Or those who, on the one hand, are unable to purchase an F-22, and on the other, who could not purchase products from other manufacturers, that is, either "whatnot" comes out, or, as they say, "walk around the market and bargain."
              1. iwind
                iwind 10 September 2014 22: 46
                0
                Quote: Kir
                Buyers? Or those who, on the one hand, are unable to purchase an F-22, and on the other, who could not purchase products from other manufacturers, that is, either "whatnot" comes out, or, as they say, "walk around the market and bargain."

                Ok, suggest another plane.
                Who has
                1) AFAR
                2) Subtle (composite case, internal compartments)
                3) integrated sighting system EOTS
                4) Powerful electronic warfare station BARACUDa with the main emitter in the form of AFAR F-35
                5) High situational awareness of DAS
                6) all-angle guidance.
                I think that's enough. Although I can continue
                "If our opponents scold us, then we are going the right way"
                Well, the "smiling" F-35.
                1. Kir
                  Kir 11 September 2014 02: 42
                  0
                  Well, I just believed in this overdressed! Yeah, why did they bring down the delivery of Typhoons to Austria? Truly from the Noblest motives, well, about the tanks "Leopard" on which you can chase demonstrators somewhere in Arabia have heard the same ... so do not strain to pass on wishful thinking, and then, as it were, a collision with Reality did not end fatally!
                  1. patsantre
                    patsantre 11 September 2014 22: 02
                    0
                    So you wishful thinking and give out.
                    1. Kir
                      Kir 12 September 2014 02: 42
                      0
                      It seems like you don’t remember going over, especially with the defenders of the universal hegemon, so rest aside if there is essentially nothing to say.
                    2. iwind
                      iwind 12 September 2014 09: 17
                      0
                      and the question was simple
                      Quote: iwind
                      Ok, suggest another plane.
                      .
                      By the way, typhoons now cost $ 120 million and F-35A -112 $

                      Quote: Kir
                      the creature has nothing to say.

                      And what about you, except for the slogans "he is shit but there is something"?
                    3. Kir
                      Kir 12 September 2014 14: 26
                      0
                      Well, let's start with the fact that it was not addressed to you, but since you’ve got it, then hold back
                      1) All that you explicitly provide information from open sources, if not, then correct
                      2) Why on earth is the best "product" sold for less money than the lagging behind in a number of characteristics
                      You will be able to intelligibly say then and we will continue, but for now your advertising chatter to my "slogans", so we will assume that it is quits!
                    4. iwind
                      iwind 13 September 2014 12: 32
                      0
                      Quote: Kir
                      Well, let's start with the fact that it was not addressed to you, but since you’ve got it, then hold back
                      1) All that you explicitly provide information from open sources, if not, then correct
                      2) Why on earth is the best "product" sold for less money than the lagging behind in a number of characteristics
                      You will be able to intelligibly say then and we will continue, but for now your advertising chatter to my "slogans", so we will assume that it is quits!

                      1) A large series reduces the price is the basis of the economy.
                      2) Euro is more than a dollar.
                      3) In Europe, in principle, do not make cheap
                      Of course, sources are open, if you are talking about prices, then these are reports of bill payments to the government.
                    5. Kir
                      Kir 13 September 2014 18: 25
                      0
                      And what did you forget about dumping, and indeed about conquering the market ?, and by the way, there is such a thing as a service, how can you make money on it, by the way, the Yankees are probably ahead of the rest in this respect.
                      About Europe, which does not do cheap, so I'm sorry and the quality of European goods in many segments will be higher than that of SGA.
                      Yes, but most importantly, you still did not answer the "Question" for which one did you first receive training for a potential sales market (from a series of market conquest), if in all respects this product is better and its delivery does not threaten anything, although what I mean
                      1) The "integrated" navigation system will obviously be US-based, since the reminder is precisely for this reason that Germany and France refused to purchase Apaches (information on the creation of the Tiger (RAS / NAS) is fairly well known)
                      2) To this add all the electronic giblets,
                      And this applies not only to the aircraft, but also to weapons, which means that "what" happens, at least all this will be an inactive "hardware", forgive me, and who will voluntarily subscribe to this?
                    6. iwind
                      iwind 13 September 2014 23: 48
                      0
                      Quote: Kir
                      Yes, but most importantly, you still did not answer the "Question" for which one did you first receive training for a potential sales market (from a series of market conquest), if in all respects this product is better and its delivery does not threaten anything, although what I mean

                      There are always national interests (support for their manufacturer, even if it is worse / more expensive). Europe does not want to lose its own aviation industry. Yes, and Eurofighter is very good aircraft.
                      In all tenders where he was F-35 he won.

                      Quote: Kir
                      ) The "integrated" navigation system will obviously be US-based, since the reminder is precisely for this reason that Germany and France refused to purchase Apaches (information on the creation of the Tiger (RAS / NAS) is fairly well known)
                      2) To this add all the electronic giblets,
                      And this applies not only to the aircraft, but also to weapons, which means that "what" happens, at least all this will be an inactive "hardware", forgive me and who will voluntarily subscribe to this

                      Everyone who needs a new multifunctional plane will sign up. Turkey threw a lot of show-offs, we won’t buy without bookmarks without a guarantee ... And pay them back or go through the woods ... And what, how nice they paid.

                      Nobody wants to notice, but the situation is very good. sad for all, there are no direct competitors in the F-35 and are not even planned.
                      Russia can only offer the SU-30MK ... Without global modernization, it has few chances + many foreign components.
                      SU-35 for work on the ground is not very, for 7 years there is no real interest in it.
                      This year we do not have a single external contract, and the last one is also a failure.
                    7. Kir
                      Kir 14 September 2014 03: 00
                      0
                      Yes, you are right about the lack of alternative, but it’s strange that Japan and, indeed, South Korea, I don’t even say about China, even presented the concepts of the 5th, about the European one gu-gu. And here it can be twofold or extremely classified, or with what third party they are developing. But even more interesting is the fact that the Yankees want to see their future bomber hypersonic, and here it is clearly with invisibility, or rather with those technologies that are now most likely to be used! But he should obviously be covered. then where is the project of the interceptor fighter, or are they going to fight with spears? All this suggests that there is a clear catch in all of this, or they themselves and those who believe in them as the most technologically advanced taxied ones are somewhere in the wrong direction, because they can imagine that even with satellites they can develop and contain so many names that hard to believe. There is the truth, and another more reliable result, both with SOI, to drag your opponent into huge expenses, and at the same time to profit later from the fruits of his scientific and engineering research.
                    8. iwind
                      iwind 14 September 2014 12: 33
                      0
                      Quote: Kir
                      Yes, you are right about the lack of alternative, but it’s strange that Japan and, indeed, South Korea, I don’t even say about China, even presented the concepts of the 5th, about the European one gu-gu.

                      Read about Japan and South Korea in more detail. These projects are rather an excuse for the "voters" Japanese so in general the plane of the coastal zone is very small and will appear a lot after 2020 +
                      Quote: Kir
                      And here it can be twofold or extremely classified, or with what third party are developing

                      Europeans said back in 2000 that the 5th generation would not be developed or would again begin after 2020.
                      Quote: Kir
                      But even more interesting is the fact that the Yankees want to see their future bomber hypersonic, and here it is clearly with invisibility, or rather with those technologies that are now most likely to be used!

                      If you are talking about NGB (http://news.usni.org/2014/07/10/air-force-releases-request-proposal-secretive-l
                      ong-range-bomber), will be subsonic stealth with promising cruise missiles.
                      Quote: Kir
                      Are people going to fight with spears? All this suggests that there is a clear catch in all of this, or they themselves and those who believe in them as the most technologically advanced taxied ones are somewhere in the wrong direction, because they can imagine that even with satellites they can develop and contain so many names that hard to believe. There is the truth, and another more reliable result, both with SOI, to drag your opponent into huge expenses, and at the same time to profit later from the fruits of his scientific and engineering research.

                      Then I did not understand what you mean.
                      Hmm, the main Air Force will be F-35, f-22, F / A-18E / F. The US Air Force is now focusing on a new generation of TSA (missiles and bombs) for the aircraft.
                    9. Kir
                      Kir 14 September 2014 20: 22
                      0
                      promising aircraft
                      I’m talking about this project, although for some reason SR-71 is written on it, although when mentioning the project of a hypersonic bomber, it is precisely it that is portrayed.
                      Regarding what I was writing about, I just pointed out that it is not too expensive a toy, a promising bomber, for a "war" with "savages", and if not against them, then there must be an appropriate cover.
  • leon1204id
    leon1204id 10 September 2014 18: 44
    0
    And do not forget to buy for a bread fly for billions of green wassat
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 9 September 2014 23: 03
    +4
    When the T-50 is developed, it will be necessary to establish its mass
    production. Russia, purely financially, alone will not pull it.
    Or with India, or with China.
    To deliver to two armies. The whole West by then will be
    fly on F-35 (it will not be distracted, good or bad).
    India or China?
    Hindus are really moody, they work relatively slowly.
    Although they know how to program and have learned how to make complex electronics.
    The main plus of India for Russia: there is no common border, there is nothing to divide,
    no threats to each other.
    China will be able to establish production of T-50 with Russia quickly, in an organized manner
    and massively. These were the pluses.
    Minus: China can easily "throw" Russia at an unexpected moment and
    to turn received joint technologies against her. Risk...
  • 222222
    222222 9 September 2014 10: 34
    +1
    Quote: Cosmos1987
    To let the Chinese know that although the T-50 modification is sold, the Indians will quickly bite their tongues

    ... After the promise to sell the S-400 air defense system to China, India frowned .. Look how the United States is squeezing Russia out of India .. "India. Armament for three seas
    05 September 2014, "
    http://nk.org.ua/geopolitika/94263-indiya-vooruzhenie-za-tri-morya
    1. tronin.maxim
      tronin.maxim 9 September 2014 11: 34
      +2
      I feel the desa thrown specially! Looks like 5 Indian column is working.
      1. Sergei75
        Sergei75 9 September 2014 22: 42
        +1
        There is a struggle for the sphere of influence, India, Ukraine, CMEA ... And China is a Trojan horse, after the death of Stalin, he became very close to the United States, and he keeps the bulk of the armed forces near our borders.
        Unfortunately, over the past decades, Russia has strongly surrendered its position and continues to surrender, the straw that China - China is slipping to us.
        We need to conduct our policy more subtly, let China think that we have it in our pocket, and we need to work more closely and make friends with India, they do not need our territory from us.
  • TECHNOLOGY
    TECHNOLOGY 15 September 2014 01: 07
    0
    Once, about 30 years ago, I learned to fly on the Yak-52. We did not think about the war, about the enemies, we just knew that we would have to. We jumped on "oaks", learned to fly, and on the An-2. Of the 14 people, there are three of us left. We are all officers. Go deep into the states, the Chinese, etc. Events in Ukraine began back in the 90s. It seemed to be quiet. We picked up the sides: Mi-9 from Belokorovichi, An-12 from Vinnytsia. Everything was quiet, it was quiet. Well, they didn’t share something, eh? Ukrainians? What are you not living with? What kind of devil are you running into?
    1. TECHNOLOGY
      TECHNOLOGY 15 September 2014 01: 45
      0
      It all started simply. Like everyone ...For God's sake, I'm sorry that is not the topic. recourse
  • Nayhas
    Nayhas 9 September 2014 09: 59
    +10
    The fact is that at the beginning of the project, in 2007, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) committed to 25% of all project work. According to the latest data, to date, the proportion of HAL has decreased to 13%. Thus, Indian enterprises will only have to supply some electronic systems, and almost all the main components of the equipment will be produced by Russian industry.

    The author reducing information. avoids sharp corners from various sources ... in the original there was a listing:
    In fact, under the new conditions of cooperation, the Indian company will supply for the fighter only tires of the wheels of the chassis, basic navigation equipment, laser target designation containers, indicators on the windshield and cooling systems of the radar station.

    But the main thing that everyone is silent about is India’s dissatisfaction with the rapprochement between Russia and the natural rival of India, China ... not to mention Pakistan ... There are no guarantees that in the future PAK-FA will be left to the Chinese for study, and such a probability should not be ruled out ...
    It may happen that the opponents of India take advantage of the results of the billions of dollars spent on FGFA ...
  • avt
    avt 9 September 2014 10: 03
    +4
    Quote: Nayhas
    But the most important thing that everyone is silent about is the discontent of India with the rapprochement between Russia and the natural rival of India, China ... not to mention Pakistan ...

    Well, that's fine. The Indians are not very sensitive to us what allies, partners - yes, but since the time of the USSR they have been in their minds, are and will be. By the way, Indira Lena spoke quite specifically and sincerely about this. so you need to take all this fuss quite calmly and within the framework of the fact that the Indians want to get something to themselves.
  • Eggor
    Eggor 9 September 2014 10: 14
    +3
    Hindus they are such Hindus. French uniforms for rafals were rolled away apparently quite in an adult way, but here nothing ...
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 9 September 2014 20: 37
      +3
      Quote: EgGor
      Hindus they are such Hindus. French uniforms for rafals were rolled away apparently quite in an adult way, but here nothing ...

      With the Rafals, things are still where they were.
    2. patsantre
      patsantre 11 September 2014 22: 08
      -1
      Have you been pumped everywhere where our equipment failed?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 9 September 2014 10: 24
    +3
    Hindus are always unhappy with everything. And they are trying to sit on two chairs. East is a delicate matter. All are traded, they want to exchange pennies for pennies. Bargain, however.
  • Mareman Vasilich
    Mareman Vasilich 9 September 2014 10: 25
    +3
    Everything is clear, they want technology for their production.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 9 September 2014 10: 46
      +2
      Quote: Mareman Vasilich
      Everything is clear, they want technology for their production.

      So they are ready to pay considerable money for it ...
  • Veter
    Veter 9 September 2014 10: 28
    -1
    Explain why this joint project is needed?

    Py.Sy The same shuttle, only in miniature. They will burn again like matches ...
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 9 September 2014 10: 53
      +4
      Quote: Veter
      Explain why this joint project is needed?

      Fifth generation aircraft are quite expensive in design and production. No one can pull such expenses alone. The United States created the F-35 in cooperation with the Allies in the hope of further reducing the cost due to mass serial production. Our situation is no better, alone PAK-FA will turn out to be diamond, despite the fact that there can be no talk of any thousands of copies. Here, air is needed for cooperation and the Indians are the only ones who agreed to invest their money, after all, but 34 billion dollars (not rupees) is a significant support. Plus, the prospect opens up for export to other potential buyers, which also allows to reduce the cost of PAK-FA ...
  • Archikah
    Archikah 9 September 2014 10: 31
    +8
    Gentlemen, there are more than a billion people in India and there is no such order as in China. Why am I doing this. The fact is that there are so many political forces constantly clashing, that sometimes the party of friendship with Russia, and sometimes with other states, wins. Who lobbied for this stuffing - he receives dividends. Everything is extremely confused in the establishment of India. Do not pay serious attention to the tantrums of our media. Moreover, most of them are controlled by the fifth column. drinks
  • Denis Skiff
    Denis Skiff 9 September 2014 10: 57
    -15%
    t50 does not fit with the military doctrine of Russia. this is a plane of penetration into enemy aggressor territory as planned. t50 with such shortcomings that just negate this project. profanity and sabotage is this txnumx.
    1. dauria
      dauria 9 September 2014 13: 04
      +2
      T50 with such shortcomings that just negate this project. profanity and sabotage, this T50.


      strange statement. The T-50 fully complies with the requirements for a fifth-generation front-line fighter, including after-flight cruising supersonic flight, low visibility, over-maneuverability, internal suspension weapons, AFAR and avionics. But you can’t say about the F-5 with its ONE ENGINE (cruising supersonic flight) - it does not reach the 35th in terms of power supply. This is rather a cheap export option and the Americans will probably be forced to create something as opposed to our T-5
      1. Lohamey Herut
        Lohamey Herut 9 September 2014 18: 10
        0
        The whole problem is that what about all this is the STATED (promised) characteristics, for now there are only PROTOTYPES, and not ready-made planes at all
    2. supertiger21
      supertiger21 9 September 2014 15: 59
      +3
      Quote: Denis-Skiff
      t50 does not fit with the military doctrine of Russia. this is a plane of penetration into enemy aggressor territory as planned. t50 with such shortcomings that just negate this project. profanity and sabotage is this txnumx.


      Many words and not one simple calculation, comparison, analysis!
      Less to you for this ... negative
    3. Lohamey Herut
      Lohamey Herut 9 September 2014 18: 12
      -4
      Since in reality the T-50 does not actually have stealth features - it's worthless - even if it is created at all
      1. Kir
        Kir 9 September 2014 18: 42
        0
        Again blunders, Not created, because he, or rather there are flying samples, but will be put into production!
  • iwind
    iwind 9 September 2014 11: 56
    +4
    Basically, all the problems with India are from ourselves. At the beginning of the problem and the delay with Vikramaditya (Groshkov), more and more friendship with China. Then they promised them that they would receive the plane by the year 2017-18 ... But this will not be + embarrassment fire during the presentation of the T-50-5. They have already cut the order from 200 to 144. It was necessary to immediately designate the PAK-FA to wake up fully combat readiness (initial operational readiness) by 2020, and only then there will be work on the FGA. Then, although there would be room for "maneuver" during negotiations, and I think everyone was vkur, but everyone was happy with it, they promised, and India gets extra. leverage for claiming "discounts and bonuses"
    By the way, someone can enlighten on ASP AF-W at Pak fa. So far I have found this KAB-500, X-38 for internal compartments.
  • dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 9 September 2014 12: 43
    +6
    If India bears a financial burden, then it is necessary to treat its claims with respect so that they feel that they are full partners. Although, of course, the line here is very thin, so as not to infringe on the project. The ability to justify is also a science.
  • Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 9 September 2014 12: 59
    +3
    American agents in India are trying to drag us into a dispute over the performance characteristics of the aircraft and thereby clarify some figures for themselves.
  • Sergei1982
    Sergei1982 9 September 2014 13: 04
    +1
    Quote: 222222
    Quote: Cosmos1987
    To let the Chinese know that although the T-50 modification is sold, the Indians will quickly bite their tongues

    ... After the promise to sell the S-400 air defense system to China, India frowned .. Look how the United States is squeezing Russia out of India .. "India. Armament for three seas
    05 September 2014, "
    http://nk.org.ua/geopolitika/94263-indiya-vooruzhenie-za-tri-morya

    And what doesn’t suit you for selling the S-400 to China, of course, I would not want to sell the newest weapons to the dubious tailor, and look how many times India threw us: the Mi-28 lost the Apache, the Mi-26 chinook, the instant-35 rafal is only the most high-profile contracts, although we transfer technology to them and organize co-production.
    1. patsantre
      patsantre 11 September 2014 22: 15
      0
      To lose the tender is not to be thrown.
  • Pereval
    Pereval 9 September 2014 14: 01
    -3
    The story with Gorshkov seems to be repeating itself: timelines are floating, costs are rising. In vain India got involved in this adventure. We had to go along the Chinese path.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. qwert
      qwert 10 September 2014 12: 13
      0
      India must follow the Israeli way !!!!!
  • Sergei1982
    Sergei1982 9 September 2014 14: 54
    +3
    Quote: Pereval
    The story with Gorshkov seems to be repeating itself: timelines are floating, costs are rising. In vain India got involved in this adventure. We had to go along the Chinese path.

    You don’t need this, you might think that the West does not change the conditions: it’s not in vain that the Indians abandoned towed USA howitzers when the price reached 5 mil green, you can buy a tank or self-propelled guns for this money, and they say the price of rafals increased from 11 mln. up to 20 ml. against their background, Gorshkov’s price increase is a trifle.
  • bubnila-70
    bubnila-70 9 September 2014 16: 01
    +1
    the Chinese way to engage in unlicensed manufacturing and reverse engineering?
    Hindus have been designing and making replacements for 30 years. The MiG-21 has not yet completed the tests on the timing of adopting silence altogether (the TEJIS fighter was outdated even at the stage of determining the technical characteristics). There is a lot of ambition, little experience in designing
    1. Shur
      Shur 9 September 2014 23: 15
      0
      Apparently on the way "Whiteman", with incredible performance characteristics for us, so they are koben.
  • supertiger21
    supertiger21 9 September 2014 16: 02
    0
    The main thing is to preserve the Russian-French monopoly of fighters in the Indian Air Force. Lockheed Martin has not yet abandoned the idea of ​​selling the F-35 to the Indians.
  • zaz69
    zaz69 9 September 2014 16: 22
    +1
    Quote: Nayhas
    So on your MiG-21, F-16, Mirage-F1 (the most war machines) flawed initially?


    Today, yes. Proven by time. And you continue to think in categories of 60 years ago.
  • Kir
    Kir 9 September 2014 17: 15
    -1
    Surprisingly surprised!, It is asked what to demand from the State where one of the spoken languages ​​is a colonial language ?, and the elites learn the same, it is mostly known where! With regards to the bending of the market under f-35, so what's new if they bent Austria (they wrote about it here in VO), or rather they closed the road to EuroFighter, like there were bribes, etc., etc., you might think they do everything honestly !, and by the way, to be honest, why didn’t these guardians sell f-22, huh, what was impossible to come up with an export option?
  • Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 9 September 2014 17: 18
    +1
    Indian Air Force Combat Aircraft

    India today has produced more than 350 proprietary warplanes of its own design and this number will creak but grow.
    1) HAL HF-24 "Marut"
    This fighter-bomber was created by aircraft designer K. Tank in 1961. 2 licensed British engines Bristol Siddley "Orpheus" (a promising Egyptian engine was planned. In 1967-77 147 "Maruts" were produced. They took part in the Indo-Pakistani war of 1971. They were removed from service.
    Speed ​​up to 1110 km / h, max take-off weight 10,9 t, ceiling 13800 m, armament 4 guns (30-mm), up to 1,8 t combat load
    2) HAL HJT-16 "Kiran"
    This UBS was created in 1964. Licensed Rolls-Royce Viper engine. In 1968-85, 190 Kirans were produced. Are in service. They did not participate in the database.
    Speed ​​up to 700 km / h, max take-off weight 4,2 t, ceiling 9200 m, armament 2 machine gun (7,62-mm in a hanging container) or 230 kg combat load
    3) HAL LCA "Tejas"
    Light fighter "Tejas" flew for the first time in 2001. The creation of the aircraft is going very hard - it was not possible to create its own engine (Kaveri) (despite the help of our and French specialists), there are problems with an advantage. Engine - American General Electric F404. Radar - Israeli Elta M-2032 (a new radar with AFAR is planned). In small-scale production since 2007, 14 Tejas were produced (including prototypes), 54 vehicles were ordered (a deck version is also planned), the plan is 230. In trial operation.
    Speed ​​up to 1920 km / h, max take-off weight 13,3 t, ceiling 15300 m, armament 1х2 guns (23-mm), up to 4 t combat load
    4) HAL HJT-36 "Sitara"
    This UBS was created in 2003. The engine is our licensed (in the plans) Saturn AL-55 (development is 2 years behind the plan). In small-scale production since 2009. 4 Sitars have been produced (including prototypes), 15 aircraft have been ordered so far, the contract for 73 aircraft has been postponed, the plan is 200. On testing. However, on August 5 this year, Indian Defense Minister Arun Jaytli announced that the country's Air Force was forced to abandon the operation of the HJT-36 Sitara. It was decided to withdraw the aircraft from service within several years. HAL Corporation was never able to solve the design flaws of the wing and airframe. The Air Force will announce a tender to select an alternative type of TCB.
    http://vpk.name/news/114959_v_indii_progremel_pohoronnyii_marsh_po_uts_sitara.ht

    ml

    Speed ​​to 1000 km / h, max take-off weight 4,6 tons, ceiling 9000 m, weapons of the 2 machine gun (12,7-mm in a hanging container) up to 1 tons of combat load
    In addition, there was an extensive program of licensed production: British Nat (316 aircraft, including the Edgit variant), Jaguar (116, including the French version, production continues), Hawk (46, production continues), there are reports about the production of "Vampire" Mk.52 and T.55, but I did not find confirmation and numbers - if anyone shares - I will be grateful! And our planes: MiG-21 (657 fighters, 220-bis only screwdriver assembly), MiG-27 (in India, "Bahadur", 165) and Su-30MKI (assembly from aircraft kits with growing localization, 120, production continues. All of this gives India nearly 1.800 aircraft.
  • Lohamey Herut
    Lohamey Herut 9 September 2014 18: 16
    -4
    1. Engines for the T-50 plan to START building in 2015.
    2. Avionics have not even STARTED to do. And to do the debtor Indians.
    3. Weapons did not start to make

    And someone here will talk about practicing combat use. PAK FA for all the time of flights 1 (ONE) time was able to overcome the speed of sound using afterburner
  • silver_roman
    silver_roman 9 September 2014 18: 29
    +2
    they are developing a 5th generation aircraft for a penny. 10-11 billion cu on such a scale can not be called otherwise!
    rise in price by 1 billion and already screams. What then says about the "penguin", which has risen in price at times!
    The Australians, Gallans, Italians walked quietly and will buy Fu-35 all the same. these also twirl their nose
    1. samoletil18
      samoletil18 9 September 2014 22: 32
      +4
      About the same I wanted to expound. Just add. Americans offer penguins for big mega bucks, and our Indians counterbalance the raptor, and with localization (!).
      And about the Chinese, more precisely about their passion for copying, and what it is fraught with.
      In the 30s of the last century, Papanin heroes returned from a heroic drift on an ice floe (SP-1). There they had a radio operator non-partisan Krenkel (for Professor and Vojaki wow - he was a German). His relations with the Papanins were unimportant, which can be understood: when party meetings were held on the ice, Krenkel set off like a non-partisan person to the air (polar) from the tent. And after the meeting, the minutes of the meeting were recorded in the Central Committee. For liberal-fucking citizens, this will seem insanity, for those who had the honor of attending Komsomol and party meetings, it is known that the most interesting thing from these meetings did not get into the protocol.
      And so they sail home on the ship. And Papanin had a daily ritual in the form of a complete disassembly and cleaning of his favorite pistol. And so, Frozen-offended Comrade Krenkel avenged him - he threw the completely left screw to the disassembled weapon. Papanin dismantled and assembled the gun several times, but the screw did not dock anywhere. According to the liberal version, Papanin had a state close to hysteria, but most likely, if that were the case, the radio operator would work by breakfast with polar bears in the morning.
      And if ours in some scheme in a new device sold to the Chinese some kind of "screw" useless and harmless, but insanely expensive and difficult to manufacture? Or throw it up?
      Hindus are afraid of such screws, so they want to participate in the project and production for an inexpensive price. And here everything is very difficult for them, because the toad begins to press, that they finance Russia, instead of their own by leaps and bounds of movement forward. This is the essence of the claims. "I think so." (From the movie "Mimino")
      1. silver_roman
        silver_roman 10 September 2014 11: 22
        +1
        interesting story.
        There is still a reason that Indians are likely to tear off part of the pie from the sale of FGFA for export. Those. introducing some of its elements.
        I’m interested in something else: our T-50 is the standard, but because FGFA is an export version, therefore, according to logic and practice, some nodes should be cut in it. In particular, the same AFAR in terms of detection range, possibly engines, but AL41F1, the most modern engine today, standing on the SU-35s, will be equipped with the first T-50 and FGFA. Next, the product 129 will be launched, which is promised by 2020 + -. They say (which is not confirmed by itself) that the increase will be within 20-30% of the capacity. Will they be cut for the Indians, or will we be equal with them? If they are already yelling at AL41F1!
  • Thompson
    Thompson 9 September 2014 20: 08
    +1
    Quote: Cosmos1987
    Since 2007, Russia and India have been collaborating on the FGFA fighter project (Fifth-Generation Fighting Aircraft - “Fifth Generation Fighter”). The aim of these works is to create an export version of the T-50 aircraft, taking into account the wishes of the Indian military. Last winter, Indian media reported on some of the features of the FGFA project.
    so those 12 lards are investments in the Indian version, and most likely have already been spent. and PAK FA (T-50) is exclusively Russian development. And as for lightning, the Indians are not fools, unlike the US allies in NATO, although they (NATO allies) are bound by treaties and obligations, to take this coffin with wings

    Why go so far. An example of French decency in front of their nose is a Mirtazah contract!
    1. patsantre
      patsantre 11 September 2014 22: 25
      -1
      And an example of our decency in the face of the supply of Iran S-300 as you?
  • ded10041948
    ded10041948 10 September 2014 00: 09
    0
    If it’s expensive and it’s not so, let them try to create something themselves, the critics are bad. His - only Raj Kapoor with a film studio, and there.
  • rubin6286
    rubin6286 10 September 2014 09: 59
    0
    Stalin said: "The one who gives more quickly gives twice!" If the United States already has a 5th generation fighter and is ready to sell it to India, it should be taken without hesitation. Even if the plane turns out to be unfinished and "raw". Indian industry and the army will gain experience in operating this kind of machines. A production and repair base will appear, the capabilities of which can be used to create their own developments and joint projects with other states. The T-50 is only "jumping up and down" so far and it is not known when it will fly, but the F-35 is already being produced and flying.
  • artalex32010
    artalex32010 11 September 2014 23: 00
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    I think that you should not compare the F-35 with the T-50. The F-35 is a light fighter, and the T-50 is heavy. The F-35 will be more correctly compared with the MiG 1.42 project (MiG LFI), the remaining experimental concept, and the T-50 it is necessary to compare with the F-22. And mine light fighter just needs to have one engine.
  • Vita vko
    Vita vko 27 June 2018 22: 28
    0
    The invention of its own "wheel" is by definition more expensive. Firstly, it is R&D, and secondly, a bunch of technological and testing equipment. Therefore, the price is higher. It was foolish from the very beginning to start a project that was knowingly losing and the fault here was rather the Indian Defense Ministry itself, which, for the sake of the interests of separate officials, refused the promising FGFA project.