Ukraine, in the area of ​​relations with NATO, is on the path of Serbia

Ukraine, in the area of ​​relations with NATO, is on the path of Serbia
Ukraine since the “pro-Russian” Viktor Yanukovych is rapidly - in comparison with even Mr. Yushchenko’s presidency - developing military cooperation with the North Atlantic Alliance. So, Kiev made such that it is very unpleasant to realize: at the airfield of Mirgorod, that in Poltava region, combat aircraft of the USA and Poland flew in order to conduct the exercises "Safe Sky - 2011" together with the Ukrainian Air Force, the exercises began on July 18. "This is the first in stories The Armed Forces of Ukraine are an international doctrine of military aviators on the territory of our country, ”said Vasily Nikiforov, Acting Commander of the Ukrainian Air Force.


According to the press service of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine: these exercises will "contribute to strengthening sister relations and achieving interoperability between military units and air forces of Ukraine, the United States and Poland." It is clear that Moscow is also developing its relations with NATO, but it is painful to realize that the ideological heirs of Hitler are treading on the Russian land. But NATO hawks have become “sisterhoods” for the military of Ukraine.

The official goal of the Safe Sky - 2011 exercises is to prepare for the 2012 football championship of the year, which will be held simultaneously in Poland and Ukraine, and the air forces of three countries will protect the airspace from the intrigues of “international terrorism”.


Even from the point of view of rationalism, it is not clear why Kiev invited American aircraft to protect the airspace - the Russian Air Force is not overseas, but much closer. The point here is clearly in politics, this step is completely clear from the point of view of the pro-American course of the Ukrainian elite. Kiev clearly intensified its military cooperation with the North Atlantic bloc, along with the exercises "Safe Sky - 2011", Admiral James Stavridis, commander-in-chief of the NATO Combined Forces in Europe, arrived in Kiev at the head of the military delegation. As UKRINFORM reported, the main purpose of the 3-day official visit of the NATO military delegation to Ukraine is to discuss the current state and prospects for the development of cooperation between the Ukrainian Armed Forces and the North Atlantic Alliance, as well as possible prospects for expanding cooperation. Last Wednesday, Admiral James Stavridis visited the base of the Ukrainian Navy in Sevastopol and was visited by the BOSK Kostyantin Olshansky and the frigate Getman Sagaidachny. How quickly the views of people are changing - the highest military rank of the enemy bloc (only amateurs to listen to Posner and Mlechin can believe in the verbal husk about the radically changed situation) in the city of Russian naval glory!

This was after last year, after the failure of Yushchenko’s strategy of joining NATO, the Verkhovna Rada adopted non-aligned status of the state, and the administration of President Yanukovych set out to cooperate with all partner states without membership in military and defense alliances. The situation changed when NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen visited Kiev in February 2011. After this, various military missions of the bloc again came to Ukraine again, and the Ukrainian military again began to conduct regular exercises with NATO members. Even under Yushchenko, the opposition often blocked plans for joint exercises, currently the Party of Regions sanctions everything, even the most ambitious ones.

Thus, in June, within the framework of the Sea Breeze-2011 exercises, the cruiser of the US Navy Monterey arrived in Odessa, which is a regional link of the US missile defense system in Europe. This event then caused a considerable scandal, the Foreign Ministry of the Russian Federation even made quite a dramatic statement about this: "We will not disregard the appearance of elements of the strategic infrastructure of the United States in close proximity to our borders and we will perceive such steps as a threat to our security."

By the arrival of the delegation of Admiral Stavridis to Ukraine, Ambassador Dirk Brengelmann (Assistant Secretary General of NATO) published a “message” in the Ukrainian media. It summed up the 20-year cooperation between NATO and Ukraine, and spoke about the prospects for its development. Dirk Brengelmann believes that at present "more than ever, there are powerful reasons for developing a partnership between NATO and Ukraine." Apparently, according to the leadership of NATO, Ukraine has already “matured” for further integration into the field of the Alliance. He further reports that it is necessary to bring the size and structure of the Ukrainian army in accordance with NATO standards in order to enhance the interoperability of the Ukrainian troops with the troops of the Alliance.

The Ukrainian Chief of the General Staff, Grigory Pedchenko, when meeting with James Stavridis, said that the Ukrainian military had completed the development of a Concept for the further reform and development of the army for the period up to the 2017 year. Admiral Stavridis approved the plans of the General Staff of Ukraine. Their essence seems to be in what we have seen in Serbia - further “optimization”, reduction in the number of weapons, the number of units, transformation into a “toy army” capable only for “joint maneuvers” with “twin cities” from NATO.

Sources of:
http://www.ng.ru/cis/2011-07-20/1_nato.html
http://otechestvo.org.ua/main/20117/1926.htm
http://www.ukrinform.ua/rus/order/?id=1073214
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  1. Professor 25 July 2011 09: 05 New
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    It is clear that Moscow is also developing its relations with NATO, but it is painful to realize that Hitler’s ideological heirs trample Russian land.

    the author did not heed that Polatava region Ukrainian land and the United States were anti-Hitler coalition even on a very active basis!
    1. Winchester
      Winchester 25 July 2011 22: 48 New
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      After this one phrase, everything becomes clear. You can no longer read the article further. For nonsense.
  2. Splin
    Splin 25 July 2011 09: 56 New
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    What a "powerful article." Well, is the author jealous and doesn’t notice how in St. Petersburg, only the Generals of NATO stomped their decks with their "fascist" boots half a month ago, or did they only show Yak-52 sports in the exercises in Zhukovsky? Medvedev himself prostrated himself before the West. Look, the French troughs and armored cars have already bought. And the story with the Tiger and Iveco. And we will buy Leoperds instead of T-90! There is nothing to kick the mirror ...
  3. Skills 25 July 2011 10: 16 New
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    The concepts of "Rus", "Russian" for the lands of Minor, White and Great Russia were canceled?

    And at the expense of the "allies" in the Anti-Hitler Coalition, there is a mass of materials that prove that Hitler and the Third Reich were only tools in the capable hands of the Anglo-Saxons. For example: you can read the book. N. Starikova "Who made Hitler attack Stalin"
    1. Superduck
      Superduck 25 July 2011 10: 24 New
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      So maybe then Russia should initiate the exclusion of the United States from the UN?
    2. Splin
      Splin 25 July 2011 10: 27 New
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      And read the “Icebreaker” by Suvorov (Rezun) for the night. Napoleon also said, "History is this public girl who sleeps with the Victor." So dark are the things of the past.
    3. Professor 25 July 2011 11: 54 New
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      The Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation between the Russian Federation and the State of Ukraine indicates the absence of mutual territorial claims. Therefore Polatvshchina Ukrainian land de jure and de facto.
      The USA beat the fascists and freed half of Europe and northern Africa from this infection. Calling them heirs of Hitler is the same as calling the Russian Army the same.
      1. Joker
        Joker 25 July 2011 12: 01 New
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        And who do you think Hitler nurtured loans?

        And does the liberation of Europe mean the fighting with the minuscule that the Germans transferred from the eastern front? I’m silent about Africa, a couple of divisions chasing each other in the sand.
        1. Superduck
          Superduck 25 July 2011 12: 18 New
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          In vain are you so, the USSR also put a lot of effort into re-creating the military power of Germany before the war. And the fact that my grandfather, for example, was drafted into the army in the 40th year and served in Siberia, and only in the winter of the 41st (after half a year) his division was transferred to Moscow, do you think there is no merit to the United States that fettered Japan in the Far Votok and the Pacific Ocean ? My second grandfather served the whole war in Far Votok starting from Lake Khasan and ending with the Manchu and Kuril gingival operations, he told me how they were afraid that the multimillion-dollar Manchu army would sweep them away like an avalanche. Is there any merit of the USA in the fact that hundreds of American and British tanks defended the same Moscow, though they were bad, while our evacuated plants tried to deploy in the Urals and produced almost nothing. By the second half of the war, thousands of studentbackers ensured the prompt transfer of troops and this provided an advantage over the enemy. What about aero cobras and mustangs? Was this also an insidious plan to kill the USSR? It may not have been a classic friendship, but "The enemy of my enemy, my friend," has not been canceled.
          Delivered:
          Aircraft 22 150
          Tanks 12
          Passenger jeeps and all-terrain vehicles 51 503
          Trucks 375 883
          Motorcycle 35 170
          Locomotive 1
          Cargo ships 90
          Anti-submarine ships 105
          Torpedo 197
          Radar 445
          Engines for ships 7784
          Food stock 4 tons
          Machinery and equipment $ 1
          Non-ferrous metals 802 tons
          Petroleum products 2 670 000 tons
          Is this the behavior of the enemy ?!
          Smack Ukrainians for the fact that they forgot the story like, Mitrych, you are an intelligent uncle ...
          1. Joker
            Joker 25 July 2011 12: 46 New
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            Lend-Lease certainly helped, especially at the beginning of the war, I agree, but we do not forget it was not free.

            But we must not forget that the Pindos opened a de facto second front only in the year 44, and the Japanese forced them to join the war. As for Japan - they also had some disagreements with Hitler, this is a topic for a separate conversation, but the USSR of Germany did not help, the country was recovering from a bloodblow = period of war and revolution.

            Pindos decently inherited in this thread, and heated well as a result of the weakening of Europe.
            1. Superduck
              Superduck 25 July 2011 13: 20 New
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              Quote: Joker
              But do not forget that the Pindos opened a de facto second front only in '44

              But it is worth remembering that they themselves were already at war in 2 theaters, i.e. to say that they can’t escape from the war is impossible.
              Quote: Joker
              USSR Germany did not help

              The USSR was preparing German tank crews so as not to lie in Kazan, a well-known fact, Heinz Guderian inspected her, several famous German tank officers came out of her lavas. The USSR and Germany conducted joint development of armored vehicles, which were then used by both parties and also had a certain exchange of technologies, the Germans had limited access to them. The same thing about the Lipetsk Aviation School.
              1. Joker
                Joker 25 July 2011 14: 22 New
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                The key word is exchange, it was an exchange of experience, we must not forget that this cooperation was aimed at the formation of the Soviet army, and enough has been written about the financial support of Hitler by the Americans.
                1. Superduck
                  Superduck 26 July 2011 15: 32 New
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                  The question was whether there was military cooperation between Nazi Germany and the USSR. Yes, it did, in the field of training of military specialists and the development of military equipment, but the exchange was on both sides, the same Grotte tank became the prototype for the subsequent T-35, the Germans also got what they wanted.
                  And what are you trying to prove to me that all this wasn’t because it was an exchange?
          2. His
            His 25 July 2011 21: 19 New
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            Che they soldiers did not help us. The troops where they were when we fought near Stalingrad. We were enemies for them too
            1. Superduck
              Superduck 26 July 2011 15: 34 New
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              Their soldiers at that time fought in Africa and the Pacific. And it was also hot in places.
        2. Professor 25 July 2011 14: 03 New
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          Molotov-Ribentrop Pact will remember? Joint parade in Brest? German cadets in flight and tank schools?

          16 millions of Americans took part in the Second World War:
          http://askville.amazon.com/American-soldiers-involved-World-War-II/AnswerViewer.
          do? requestId = 1425000
          450,670 died

          these "couple of divisions" could be near Stalingrad ...
          1. svvaulsh
            svvaulsh 25 July 2011 14: 20 New
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            Quote: Professor
            Molotov-Ribentrop Pact will be remembered



            Enlighten the professor, I have not read the pact.
            1. Professor 25 July 2011 14: 36 New
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              http://www.lituanus.org/1989/89_1_03.htm

              http://www.istorik.ru/library/documents/molotov_ribbentrop/text.htm

              http://www.istorik.ru/library/documents/molotov_ribbentrop/protocol.htm

              http://www.gumer.info/bibliotek_Buks/History/Article/pakt_molribb.php
              1. svvaulsh
                svvaulsh 25 July 2011 14: 55 New
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                As I understand it, it was a non-aggression pact and delimitation of zones of influence. Moreover, the zone of influence of the USSR did not go beyond the borders of the Russian Empire. The Yalta and Tehran accords of the United States, Britain and the USSR can be considered roughly the same pact, except that the Anglo-Saxons were afraid to attack, although such plans were being made. Measure the recent past. Iran-Iraq war, where the United States armed and trained the Iraqi army, then the same Iraq was occupied under the pretext of destroying the chem. and nuclear weapons that were never found. So here I see only political pragmatism, to achieve certain goals at a given time. And blame anyone, not worth it. This is politics.
                1. Professor 25 July 2011 16: 26 New
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                  Totally agree with you.
                  However, this pact provoked the Second World War, as well as the fact that Stalin helped Germany bypass the restrictions imposed on Germany under the Treaty of Versailles. I thought that I had outwitted everyone, but received the Second World War.

                  I don't blame anyone. I just can’t get past when they vilely manipulate a story, such as "US descendants of Hitler." In America, as well as Russia, veterans (by the way millions of them) go out to ceremonies with honors in orders on the day of victory.
                  1. svvaulsh
                    svvaulsh 25 July 2011 16: 37 New
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                    Quote: Professor
                    Stalin helped Germany


                    Looks like he was baffled by the name of the party of Hitler - "National Socialist"
          2. His
            His 25 July 2011 22: 01 New
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            Who saved you the Jews?
            1. Professor 25 July 2011 22: 31 New
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              You, dear, have saved us all, and the Jews and Gypsies and everyone else ... a deep bow to you.
              1. His
                His 25 July 2011 22: 32 New
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                I was not there then. My ancestors
            2. Petrol 27 July 2011 11: 11 New
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              so for a change or overall development just reading try to think figuratively then you get to the bottom of the essence http://newspark.net.ua/politics/menaxem-shneerson-nashi-plany-otnositelno-slavya
              n/
        3. Winchester
          Winchester 25 July 2011 22: 53 New
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          Do not tell people) What other credit cards? You just don’t want to remember who provided the Reich with oil, almost all non-ferrous metals, bread, etc. I’m already silent about the fact that almost all of the top German officers studied in the USSR.
  4. Superduck
    Superduck 25 July 2011 10: 23 New
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    Damn, well, where do you get such authors. What epithets! Darkness, I directly recall the lessons of political information in the 5th grade of the time of Andropov, and even they were not so terry. These girls are called followers of Hitler from the followers of Goebels, information from the article ZERO, but it is clearly defined who is good and who is bad at the same time without any argument.
  5. svvaulsh
    svvaulsh 25 July 2011 11: 06 New
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    Still, it’s a pity that Yulka was taken. So everything would be clear, where is white, where is black. With the "little forest" everything is more complicated. Before the election - pro-Russian, which bribed the eastern electorate, then became pro-Western. But it’s impossible to sit on two chairs. As evidenced by the lack of rating in the west and its rapid decline in the east.
    As for the exercises, from a political point of view - Ukraine is an independent country, it is friends with anyone it wants. But from the point of view of the layman, the picture is different, the weakness of the state and the inability to protect its airspace on its own are shown. Russia is undoubtedly a spit (for refusing to lower energy prices). Amers, as always, will benefit from it. And they will study the future theater, and the fraternal peoples will quarrel, And they will give Russia one more kick.
    1. Superduck
      Superduck 25 July 2011 11: 34 New
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      Yes, this is just a doctrine, and then not even a doctrine, but a pokatushki. Pilots are all terrible how interesting. From a geopolitical point of view - yes, yes - this is a little spit in Russia.
      I read Gleb Pavlovsky, he said 2 years ago that Ukraine cannot have a pro-Russian president while it is within its borders. And he is right, Kuchma, too, I remember was like pro-Russian, and so what? The independence of Ukraine in itself is a vector of repulsion from Russia because for it (Russia) this very independence provokes a powerful autoimmune unconscious reaction that enhances disintegration. I believe in historical karma, so the reverse integration with Russia, in my opinion, is real only in the conditions of a fierce war and partial occupation of Ukraine.
      1. SAVA
        SAVA 25 July 2011 21: 17 New
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        AT LAST !!!!! SO COME AND CONQUER I AM ALWAYS EXACTLY WITH RUSSIAN SOLDIERS I WILL NOT FIGHT LIKE THE WHOLE DONBASS AND OUR GUYS ARE ABLE TO FIGHT, SERVED IN RUSSIA AND TAKE THE OAT AWAY ALREADY TAKEN OUT OF ANYWHERE. "THERE IS IT IDEAL SLAVIC !!!!))))))
        1. Winchester
          Winchester 27 July 2011 17: 37 New
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          Explain someone to this wise guy that there is such a key as Caps Lock.
          1. SAVA
            SAVA 27 July 2011 18: 06 New
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            IF YOU DO NOT EVERYTHING EQUAL WHO WHO WRITES A FONT, I WILL ANSWER YOU, I WRITE SPECIALLY LARGE LETTERS WHAT THE COMPLAINTS WOULD NOT PORT VISION !!!! IT STRONGLY TOUCHES YOU !?
            1. His
              His 27 July 2011 18: 12 New
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              Stop making noise. Slavs need to unite. Ahead of Islamization is coming. Islamic colonization. There are more of them in number. But they are weaker than the Slavs. Slavs are power when together. Anglo-Saxons rest
              1. SAVA
                SAVA 27 July 2011 18: 22 New
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                AND I SHOULD JOIN ANYTHING, FOR LOVERS IN THE WEST I WILL GIVE AN EXAMPLE, UKRAINE WAS REDUCED FROM POLISH PRICE BLOOD AND RUSSIA PROVIDED INDEPENDENCE UKRAINE IS NOT PLEASANT TO THERE!
                1. Winchester
                  Winchester 27 July 2011 18: 29 New
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                  Ukraine was independent from 1654 to 1991 ??? Do you understand what you are writing?
                  1. SAVA
                    SAVA 27 July 2011 18: 49 New
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                    IN ALL CASES, IN THE UNION WITH RUSSIA, SHE ENTERED “WITH BLOOD ON THE BACK FROM THE WESTERN BLOWS” AND WENT OUT WITHOUT A SINGLE SHOT,
                    1. Superduck
                      Superduck 27 July 2011 19: 17 New
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                      Well, it is worth recognizing that in the 18th year everything was slightly different.
                    2. alex_97597
                      alex_97597 5 September 2011 16: 26 New
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                      Sliwiw ti pidr dolbanii a golodomor na ukraine kto ustroil? Vrode rossia
            2. Winchester
              Winchester 27 July 2011 18: 25 New
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              The compatriots do not know what Ctrl + is?
              It’s just banyat for many sites.
              1. SAVA
                SAVA 7 August 2011 11: 16 New
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                Banyat ??? !!! IS IT LIKE IN 37-39 YEARS OF THE PAST CENTURY !! ?? A RANDOMLY DO NOT REPORT "WHERE SHOULD BE" !!! ??? YOU ARE NOT ATTENTION TO THOSE THEN THEN "BANILED" PEOPLE !!! ???)))))))))))))))
        2. svvaulsh
          svvaulsh 5 August 2011 19: 34 New
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          Great said!
    2. Splin
      Splin 25 July 2011 11: 36 New
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      Just when the braid was there were less understandings. She made white from black and vice versa. I don’t know to which layman everything is clear about the weakness to defend himself personally, and so everyone knew about it .. Recently, the Russian Air Force also accompanied the Polish aircraft in exercises. The world is integrated. Even the Americans themselves could not prevent September 11, and Norway itself is now in shock.
      1. PSih2097 26 July 2011 20: 19 New
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        But they did not prevent it, they did it.
  6. svvaulsh
    svvaulsh 25 July 2011 13: 51 New
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    Duke, what a war! This is exactly what the Americans want, because together we are strength, and separately, and even enemies ... and you can not take into account. I think B. Khmelnitsky understood this, and was not guided by the mercenary motives of the Pereyaslav Rada.
    1. Superduck
      Superduck 25 July 2011 13: 57 New
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      Well, in fact, Khmelnitsky was guided by selfish considerations (including), i.e. the Cossack foreman was worried not weak for his social and economic situation, which Poland, for well-known reasons, could not guarantee them. However, looking at those events from the height of your current worldview is stupid.
      Well, of course, you are right - together there was power, at the same time - pawns in a strange game. Probably need an impulse to bring the process back. But I’m afraid that it will not be just an impulse, but a pussy ... a painful one, but on the other hand, you won’t get anything, it’s fate.
  7. Max
    Max 25 July 2011 14: 20 New
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    The dullness of the author is striking. Each year, Russia participates in NATO exercises, and also reformed the armed forces by reducing them. And what do we make the same conclusion: turning into a "toy army" capable only of "joint maneuvers" with "twin cities" from NATO.

    Rave...
    1. svvaulsh
      svvaulsh 25 July 2011 14: 32 New
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      Let's separate “flies from cutlets,” as Putin put it. So, Russia and Ukraine are one thing, and the near power is another.
      1. Splin
        Splin 25 July 2011 15: 16 New
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        Do not be offended, how could Russia be useful in joint exercises :? In addition to the ground operation in Chechnya, there is no other combat experience. Yes, thank God even less in Ukraine, but for the pilots ... The first has more flying hours, but the tactics are also Soviet. And the Americans, they have been doing them the last 20 years that they bombed. My uncle from the USSR served in naval aviation navigating on Tu 16 in the form of a "fuel truck". He also told me that the adversary has more experience in the air.
        1. svvaulsh
          svvaulsh 25 July 2011 21: 56 New
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          At one time there was such a fable: - when God cleaned up the earth, the pilots had flights, when God cleaned up the sky - there was bad weather. Therefore, only our pilots flew under the bridges to hit the girls, only our pilots, not paying attention to the warning “maximum angle of attack”, performed AD braking (popularly called “Pugachev’s cobra.”) Our pilots put boots in the brake flaps and dropped them into zone to collective farmers for what last Sunday they got in the eye at a disco in a village club.
          With such an approach, are we really not going to defeat the NATO troops, who are accustomed to bombing and not to meet any resistance?
  8. figwam 25 July 2011 15: 15 New
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    Quote: Professor


    The USA beat the fascists and freed half of Europe and northern Africa from this infection. Calling them heirs of Hitler is the same as calling the Russian Army the same.

    You are a professor, but you did not understand the meaning of the proposal.
    Hitler had the task of destroying our country, the United States had the same task. That's the whole inheritance.
    1. Professor 25 July 2011 16: 31 New
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      Hitler had the task of making the Slavs slaves in the literal sense of the word. And here Barak rubs us about the "reset" and invited Russia to the G8 to solve fateful tasks on an equal footing - feel the difference.
      1. svvaulsh
        svvaulsh 25 July 2011 17: 04 New
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        Here we are professor, we chatted and decided something, and Ivan Ivanitch to the bulb, what we decided. And so it’s just an eight, it’s just going to hang out.
        And not Obama invited Russia, but a wedge of a bilton Christmas tree.
        By the way, at least one fateful task that they solved, name, otherwise I’m wrong.
        8 is not an organization and cannot accept legal documents.
    2. Ivan35
      Ivan35 25 July 2011 19: 22 New
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      As always to the point !!! Respect to Figwam!
    3. Marat
      Marat 25 July 2011 21: 53 New
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      Add to the comment Figwama - The goals of the United States and Hitler are similar - but only the United States is smarter (their Masonic elite) and have almost reached their goals. Now the war is in the head - and the US is winning, forcing many citizens of the CIS and Russia to believe that the USA is “good” - there are no good and bad in history (by the way, Starikov also had “better oil”) Rome was more humane or better than Carthage or Spain more "democratic" than England - this is the last fabrication (and successful - led yourself) of the information war. The adversary is the adversary and his policy will never be directed, but to make us feel better
  9. Superduck
    Superduck 25 July 2011 15: 20 New
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    And only Russia wishes everyone good and prosperity. By definition, they cannot desire anything else for Russia as well as Russia for them.
    1. Superduck
      Superduck 25 July 2011 16: 58 New
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      This is what I said about the USA
  10. makrus
    makrus 25 July 2011 15: 39 New
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    Quote: SuperDuck
    And only Russia wishes everyone good and prosperity. By definition, they cannot desire anything else for Russia as well as Russia for them.

    We are not building missile defense at their borders.
    1. Superduck
      Superduck 25 July 2011 16: 00 New
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      It would be possible and Russia would build in Mexico, although all this is chewing snot. At this historical stage, for the current state called Ukraine, the United States presents fewer objective threats than Russia. This is if we discard emotions and speak in a dry tongue, so to speak.
      1. svvaulsh
        svvaulsh 25 July 2011 16: 03 New
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        Duke, don't go overboard.
        1. Superduck
          Superduck 25 July 2011 16: 17 New
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          And I don’t bend, pure analytics, no snot. If you translate the topic into the plane of the Russian world, the confrontation between good and evil, then the dispute is certainly more difficult, but for me it is absolutely boring. I'm a complete cynic, sorry.
      2. Joker
        Joker 25 July 2011 16: 07 New
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        At this historical stage, Ukraine is very convenient for the Pindos as a counterweight to the Russian Federation, together with Georgia and the Baltic states, while historically being part of the great Russian people.

        Quote: SuperDuck
        although all this is chewing snot.
        1. Superduck
          Superduck 25 July 2011 16: 18 New
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          It is also true, but Georgians are not part of the Russian people, but you see, the requirements for them are the same as for those who are part. I suspect that the question is not who is what part, but only in geopolitics.
          1. Joker
            Joker 25 July 2011 16: 26 New
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            As for the united nation, if the brothers are fighting seriously, then as a rule they will die, but I would not like that.
            1. Superduck
              Superduck 25 July 2011 16: 35 New
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              Well, this is hardly fair in relation to Ukraine, although precedents, as you know, were. All times of troubles are characterized by small battles, but rather it was the release of steam. Ukrainians have never been eager to fight with the Russians, and vice versa, and if they did, it was without much enthusiasm.
              1. SAVA
                SAVA 25 July 2011 21: 30 New
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                CAM shoot those QMS ARE ON RUSSIAN SOLDIER rise up WEAPON UNDERGROUND TO THE imaginary wave would reliably, only confuses CURRENT SITUATION IN RUSSIA, united around BALORUSSII they will "THREE Ivan" LEAD NOT MOSCOW, BELARUS WERE mental toughness PEOPLE in the bulk, WE (UKRAINE) WERE NOT THE BEST, FORGOTTEN ABOUT THE BROTHERS OF OUR RUSSIANS.
                1. Superduck
                  Superduck 25 July 2011 23: 59 New
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                  SAVAdo not scream plz.
                  1. SAVA
                    SAVA 26 July 2011 00: 32 New
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                    THIS IS NOT AT ALL A SCREAM, JUST SORRY YOUR EYES, TIME TO STAY AWAY FROM THE FORCED TRADITIONS TO UNDERTAIN HEALTH, WE DIDN'T THINK THROUGH ANYTHING, AND EYES HURT ONE MANY !?
                2. Winchester
                  Winchester 27 July 2011 17: 29 New
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                  Sava, you don’t sign for Ukraine. I personally do not know in Kiev a single person with similar views.
                  1. SAVA
                    SAVA 27 July 2011 17: 55 New
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                    And WHAT IS KIEV REPRESENTING MYSELF? SAME AND MOSCOW? "Feast or Famine" The whole country interrupt FROM PAY TO PAY, ALL MANY villages fell LAST scrap dug up, and in Kiev due to the greater throng -MILLIONEROV DEPUTIES AND lackeys-attendants who in their regions will collapse the whole city MONEY IS A MANY of Sumy, Ivano-Frankivsk, Lviv muzhiks throw FAMILY and try to earn in a foreign country asked them WELL DO TO THEM IN EUROPE APPLY, AND IN RUSSIA accept them always good, so RUSSIA CAN NOT indulge HAVING LAST experience with Poland, which massacred entire VILLAGES OF UKRAINIANS, EVIDING EVEN EVEN KOZATSKI ELDERS, DO YOU AND YOU KNOW WRITING IT LONG IF YOU HAVE NOT SECRET?
                    1. Winchester
                      Winchester 27 July 2011 18: 20 New
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                      Now let's do it in order. No one argues about the terrible situation in which we are now, the decline of villages, etc., and the enormous wealth of deputies. But it is incorrect to identify deputies with Kiev. Akhmetov, whose well-being has grown 3 times over the last crisis year, from Kiev? At the beginning of your post, you wrote the right things - regardless of whether in the east, in the west or in the center of Ukraine, normal people (not millionaire embezzlers) have the same problems. But before each election of politics, instead of proposing real steps to combat corruption, the development of small and medium-sized enterprises, the economic development of the country in general, people start shouting about the Russian language, flags, history, NATO, etc.
                      But regardless of their position on these issues, having come to power, they are doing the same thing in the east and in the West - they continue to steal.
                      All these questions, from provocations on May 9 to talks about the Russian world, are nothing more than a screen that allows all politicians to plunder the country.
                      I am 20 years old. AND?
                      1. SAVA
                        SAVA 27 July 2011 18: 41 New
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                        I am glad that 20-year-olds see what is happening in the country!)) We would still understand that, by and large, we are close to the Russian people and we have common troubles.
                      2. Winchester
                        Winchester 27 July 2011 18: 54 New
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                        In my opinion, everyone sees what is happening in the country. But this is not enough. You need to understand that first you need to throw in the dustbin of history this power, which plunders everything that is possible, and only then it will be possible to discuss on the topic of ideology, foreign policy, humanitarian policy, etc.
                        While we are arguing here who has brought more trouble to Ukrainians in history - Russians or Poles, our beloved central and local authorities, regardless of their political coloring, continue to derail the budget on a large scale, judges and officials - to take bribes, and billionaires - to buy new planes and villas.
                      3. His
                        His 27 July 2011 19: 05 New
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                        Why do you regularly vote for her? After all, you know that it only exists due to the drawing of a national card.
                      4. Winchester
                        Winchester 27 July 2011 19: 11 New
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                        I personally have not yet voted for anyone and for whom I do not know who to vote for in 2012. There is no one to choose from.
                      5. Superduck
                        Superduck 27 July 2011 19: 23 New
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                        Quote: Own
                        Why do you regularly vote for her? After all, you know that it only exists due to the drawing of a national card.

                        Yes, because why do you, all of the 2 evils are looking for the lesser and choosing the greater.
            2. Helmut
              Helmut 27 July 2011 21: 36 New
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              Sava, you don’t sign for Ukraine. I personally do not know in Kiev a single person with similar views.
              Probably in gay clubs and not to meet.
              1. Marat
                Marat 28 July 2011 00: 34 New
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                Great comment, Helmut !! wink
  • makrus
    makrus 25 July 2011 16: 23 New
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    Quote: SuperDuck
    At this historical stage, for the current state called Ukraine, the United States presents fewer objective threats than Russia.

    Rather, Ukraine poses a threat to Russia with its foreign and domestic policies.
    .
    Quote: SuperDuck
    It would be possible and Russia would build in Mexico
    Far from a fact.
    1. Superduck
      Superduck 25 July 2011 16: 25 New
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      Well, there’s a double-edged sword, where is the chicken and where is the egg, as you know, the problem is not solved.
      >> Far from a fact.
      Well, otherwise it would be a weak country, a strong country constantly needs to demonstrate strength, so it gains allies. Having won relatively decent in South Ossetia, Russia has proved that its defense and patronage is worth something and has gained revitalization in the CSTO or whatever it is called. There would not have been this demonstration - perhaps no one would have believed. The US does not deploy missile defense in Europe because it is threatened by the Russian Federation from this direction, but demonstrate its military and political strength to its allies, plus it reminds Europeans who are the bosses in the house. Poland and the Czech Republic as a result feel protected.
      1. Joker
        Joker 25 July 2011 16: 34 New
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        I will never believe that they are doing something strictly out of nobility and that someone would feel protected (it’s rather annoying for the Poles that they can kick at them because of these bases).

        And a missile defense element is being built directed against the Russian Federation no matter what noodles they hang.
        1. Superduck
          Superduck 25 July 2011 16: 38 New
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          The military value of this system, as for me, is slightly overestimated by the forces of the Russian official media. But of course this is normal in the information war, Russia's concern is justified, but rather not from a military but from a geopolitical point of view. Here how to say the situation obliges the Russian Federation to be indignant. This is probably an element of bargaining by the United States, because if only they wanted and had to, they would have been built long ago.
          The only thing is that early detection radars provide reinsurance in case of problems with the US satellite constellation, which "serves" launches of ICBMs.
        2. PSih2097 26 July 2011 20: 35 New
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          Let’s proceed from the fact that in Poland they are building, if the standards - then there is no point in shouting about it, if you are building mine GBI, then it’s worth considering, because Initially, this device is a medium-range missile with the ability to equip apples (analogous to P12, P14, RSD10, which the labeled cut, and the Americans found a new approach).
          1. Superduck
            Superduck 27 July 2011 10: 44 New
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            Quote: PSih2097
            if they build mine GBI

            Well, then you have bent, of course they are not there. It seems the Americans declared generally patriots.
  • makrus
    makrus 25 July 2011 16: 52 New
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    Quote: SuperDuck
    and demonstrate their military and political strength to their allies, plus reminds Europeans who is the boss in the house.

    Well you are an intelligent person, what are you writing? Remember Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan. Do you seriously believe that problems have been solved in Yugoslavia? All the most interesting is yet to come. Two other countries are showing a complete impasse in their policies. And how much have relations with Europe deteriorated? Also a fact.
    Turkey did not miss American ships during the war 080808 due to the failure to comply with the protocol. What about the latest economic news? What power show are you talking about?
    1. Superduck
      Superduck 25 July 2011 16: 57 New
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      But what, Obama to speak on TV and say: Sorry guys, the loot is over, we are stopping all programs of military and political development for 5 years until we dig up more.
      So chtoli?
      The fact that the United States has problems everyone knows, they also know everything about Russia's problems, so what? To dig into their hole because of this?
      1. svvaulsh
        svvaulsh 25 July 2011 17: 09 New
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        They have a right.....
  • makrus
    makrus 25 July 2011 17: 10 New
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    Quote: SuperDuck
    The fact that the United States has problems everyone knows, they also know everything about Russia's problems, so what? To dig into their hole because of this?

    Which mink? The questions were quite specific.
    1. Superduck
      Superduck 25 July 2011 17: 49 New
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      I did not understand your questions, the text was overly emotional. Ask me their points, I will be happy to answer you.
  • makrus
    makrus 25 July 2011 17: 16 New
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    Quote: Professor
    However, this pact provoked the Second World War, as well as the fact that Stalin helped Germany bypass the restrictions imposed on Germany under the Treaty of Versailles. I thought that I had outwitted everyone, but received the Second World War.

    Now a little about the mysterious Russian soul. It will be about the Molotov and Resentrop Pact. Open any history textbook and read the text dedicated to this moment. All of the above will be presented as a monstrous crime of Stalin and Hitler in the division of poor Poland. But we will remove the moral aspect and what we see, the Soviet Union without any victims receives half the territory of the Polish state, plus several (I do not remember exactly) ships and some other bonuses in the form of machines and technologies. And what did the British offer us for the USSR to stand up for Poland ... ... NOTHING. At the same time, they tried to enter into an alliance with Germany against the Soviet Union. Tell me what to call such cynical people
    1. Superduck
      Superduck 25 July 2011 17: 46 New
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      And what do you think that someone is playing politics without acting cynically. I was slightly in politics, this is equivalent to selling the soul to the devil. Nobody ever stood up for anyone on the basis of good considerations. The Molotov-Ribentrop Pact, also a very cynical political act, which was certainly justified for both sides at that time, and the game of England in the course of its conclusion is still not entirely clear to me. I do not blame him, this political document (a secret supplement) at the same time touched on the fate of some peoples, whose opinions were not asked by anyone, but these are their tragedies (if they think so), but the USSR showed for the first time that he was an empire and the British had to reckon with the new a force that they had not seriously considered before. True, I have one thought that he provoked indirectly an German attack on the USSR, though everything is within the framework of guesswork.
      1. Marat
        Marat 25 July 2011 22: 05 New
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        Of course, politics is made from bare calculation and morality is inappropriate there - only as a propaganda factor. But personally, I can’t become ABOVE - EQUIVALENT! I am for my country and against those who acted certainly not in the interests of me and my ancestors and children (and this is the Americans and the British with a financial backstage)
        And I agree that Russia cannot be completely "white" either - I understand that for example poor Onishchenko regularly finds "harmful products" either from the Balts or the Georgians because they "said" so - and I support this
    2. Professor 25 July 2011 22: 40 New
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      “But we will remove the moral aspect and what we see, the Soviet Union receives half the territory of the Polish state without any victims” -
      The USSR received tens of millions of victims in its own country.
      1. His
        His 25 July 2011 22: 43 New
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        Answer now, the American people are responsible for what the United States is doing around the world. For 100.000 people killed in Iraq, for example
        1. His
          His 25 July 2011 22: 50 New
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          You have no answer
        2. Professor 25 July 2011 23: 02 New
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          Yes it does. In a democracy, the United States is responsible for the actions of its government.
          1. His
            His 26 July 2011 16: 15 New
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            What about compensation then. Do you agree that Americans must pay for all their atrocities (Vietnam, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Korea and much more)
            1. Professor 26 July 2011 18: 58 New
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              They pay both Koreans and everyone else.
              1. Superduck
                Superduck 26 July 2011 19: 52 New
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                Base rental?
                1. Professor 26 July 2011 21: 33 New
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                  Not only.
                  Tens of billions of American rubles have been invested in their economy. The last example is Vietnam, American investments are many times greater than all of the combined assistance of the USSR to this country. In no case do not condone the US crime in Vietnam, but the fact of compensation on the face.
                  Remember Marshall’s plan? What is this no matter how compensation? And who rebuilt Japan?
            2. Winchester
              Winchester 26 July 2011 19: 52 New
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              And why is the Russian Federation, the successor of the USSR, not paying compensation to Afghanistan, Czechoslovakia, etc.?
              1. PSih2097 26 July 2011 20: 37 New
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                For what? maybe you also offer to pay the Baltic states?
                1. His
                  His 26 July 2011 21: 50 New
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                  How for what? We broke them off with fascism. So they regret it.
                  1. Winchester
                    Winchester 27 July 2011 17: 23 New
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                    Afghan fascism? No, I understand that you have paranoia, and you see fascism everywhere, not noticing only Russian xenophobia, but that's too much ...
                    Where did fascism come from in Afghanistan in 1979? Perhaps the Afghans do not even know such a word)
                    But what about Prague 1968? Were there also fascists alone?
                    It seems to me that on this site no one but a few people thinks before writing anything.
              2. SAVA
                SAVA 30 July 2011 19: 24 New
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                BECAUSE IN AFGHANISTAN NOW Many people say, "The Soviets (ie RUSSIAN) to build US schools and hospitals, and the US kill our children", and fans of the West, I advise to use in food genetically modified PISCHU- brainchild your pets, look into someone turn your descendants WHAT THEY SAY TO THE CURRENT DEFENSEERS OF "DEMOCRATIC VALUES", IN THE WORLD THE POISONERS ARE CONSIDERED TO BE GREAT SINNERS AND ALWAYS WERE EXCELLENT.
  • Joker
    Joker 25 July 2011 17: 20 New
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    Quote: Professor
    I completely agree with you. However, this pact provoked the Second World War, as well as the fact that Stalin helped Germany bypass the restrictions imposed on Germany under the Treaty of Versailles. I thought that I had outwitted everyone, but received the Second World War.



    He smiled, it would be easier for you to take a nickname, otherwise you’re carrying such a heresy, it becomes even sickening before you read such books.

    And of course they honor veterans, because if you take their story, it was the Pindos who defeated Hitler and gave us freedom.

    If you do not understand these veterans there are no complaints, we are talking about the leadership of Pindostana.
    1. Superduck
      Superduck 25 July 2011 17: 48 New
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      I partly agree with the professor that this act did not provoke a war, but rather it was one of the bricks that built it. The party was the hardest when everything comes out - there will be exciting reading, damn it!
      1. Marat
        Marat 25 July 2011 21: 58 New
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        Andrei Parshev in “Why America Comes” has an interesting link to Roosevelt and his son’s correspondence or discussion on this topic.
    2. Professor 25 July 2011 22: 37 New
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      “I smiled, it would be easier for you to take a nickname, otherwise you’re carrying such a heresy, you’ll even get sick of it before you approve this, read books.” - And specifically, have something to say?
      1. Joker
        Joker 5 August 2011 16: 27 New
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        The foreign policy of the USSR before the war, and accordingly any political decision necessary consider considering the geopolitical situation, otherwise it’s like a person’s accusation that he caused harm to several people, if you “lower” the moment that for example he was defending himself (or defending someone).
  • makrus
    makrus 25 July 2011 19: 05 New
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    Quote: SuperDuck
    I did not understand your questions, the text was overly emotional. Ask me their points, I will be happy to answer you.

    America today is not a guarantee of stability for everyone, but rather the opposite. In Yugoslavia they did not solve the problem. And they created a hidden, smoldering conflict. Which will soon explode. Croatia, this is actually Chechnya under the Wahhabis. This state brings Europe only the problems of immigration, drug trafficking, prostitution.
    Iraq, there is no end in sight, a continuous humanitarian catastrophe.
    Afghanistan, too, is very complicated and the result is also negative in resolving this conflict.
    Next is the chain of color revolutions, ALSO NO POSITIVE RESULT. All puppet governments very quickly lost the support of the population. Add to this the conflict with Georgia, if the Georgians didn’t have American support for this.
    YOU DO NOT SCARY THAT SUCH POWER COMES INTO YOUR REGION. HELP FROM SUCH ALLIES TO RUN NECESSARY QUICKLY, QUICKLY.
    1. Superduck
      Superduck 25 July 2011 20: 17 New
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      Quote: makrus
      Croatia, this is actually Chechnya under the Wahhabis. This state brings Europe only the problems of immigration, drug trafficking, prostitution.

      You probably meant Bosnia.
      Yes, yes, yes, but all the "vassals" feel quite normal, but not so completely normal to forget why they need the United States. No one promised chocolate cream.
      But on the other hand, Russia, too, wherever it has "pacified", has left hotbeds of tension. Give me at least one extinct conflict. No, I understand that my last replica will outrage many here, but I'm not from evil, I'm still in the mainstream of extreme cynicism.
      Hence the conclusion that no empire is interested in stability in the zone of its influence. So it was and it will be so.
      1. PSih2097 26 July 2011 20: 39 New
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        I think not only Bosnia, but also Albania, and Kosovo is a complete P ...
        1. Superduck
          Superduck 27 July 2011 11: 50 New
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          Oh, exactly, I mean Kosovo.
  • APASUS 25 July 2011 20: 31 New
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    In my opinion, Yanukovych is not his own, he just does not tease Russia with stupid antics. Yanukovych wants to play his "party" and like a real kid he is heading west. There is more money ...........
    1. Superduck
      Superduck 25 July 2011 21: 35 New
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      Yanukovych supports the entire large business of Ukraine, primarily metallurgy, chemistry and agricultural. During a series of trade wars, almost all of them were driven out of the Russian market and for the most part reoriented and quite successfully to the West. Only mechanical engineering is interested in transparent relations with Russia, but practically no one represents its interests in politics.
  • Winchester
    Winchester 25 July 2011 22: 57 New
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    I do not understand how you can write such nonsense. Every year the Russian Federation conducts exercises with the participation of vile vile Pindos, it is possible for her. And Ukrainians are immediately accomplices of the Nazis. If the author believes in what he writes, then he must be healed)
  • PSih2097 27 July 2011 22: 34 New
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    Well, they want to play flying games with the Yankees and the gentry - well, do not play high. why should they do this tragedy, well, a battle cruiser came in that the submariners didn’t accompany him, our flyers didn’t fly nearby, at least some reason for the Black Sea Fleet exercises. I don’t like the cruiser - to shoot granite over it and see how their much-praised Aegis can handle it, and then say, like, excuse me, the old boat is locked up ...
  • PSih2097 27 July 2011 22: 51 New
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    And this is especially for the professional:
    On December 17, just 10 days after the Hawaiian disaster, Admiral Kimmel was removed from the post of commander of the Pacific Fleet, and in March 1942, he was demoted and fired from military service.
    It will take several years, and in the course of the next proceedings, caused by the events in Pearl Harbor, the Minister of War Forrestol will declare: "I believe that the information on the position and movement of the ships of the Japanese fleet, which was received by Admiral Kimmel during the week preceding the attack on Pearl -Harbor, in combination with other information received by him from the head of US naval operations, including a war warning telegram, should have been taken together as information not excluding the possibility of an attack on Pearl Harbor, while the attack time could be determined with sufficient "The lack of reliable information about Japanese aircraft carriers traveling in unprotected areas of the Pacific Ocean with a strict radio silence regime, as well as an assessment of the possible consequences of an air attack, should have led Admiral Kimmel to take all possible precautions to reduce the effectiveness of such an attack."
  • PSih2097 27 July 2011 22: 52 New
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    Until the last days of his life, and when the admiral died on May 14, 1958, Kimmel tried to wash off the stain of shame and prove that he was not the only and not the main culprit in the Pearl Harbor tragedy. In his memoirs published in 1955, the former fleet commander wrote: “Again and again I went over the events that preceded the Japanese attack, trying to understand how right I was in my conclusions based on my orders, directives and informational messages Then I thought, as though, by now, I think that all my conclusions were completely based and corresponded to the information that I received. Consciousness of this has given me strength over the years that have passed since the first bombs fell on Pearl -Harbor.
    I was stunned when I finally became aware of all the information that Washington had on the eve of the attack. For all my more than 42 years of service in the Navy, I have not seen anything like this, the actions of high-ranking officials of our government did not fit into my mind, who withheld vital information from the military command of the base in Pearl Harbor. If our leaders wanted to engage in military policy, the first thing they needed to do was to inform the military and naval command of their goals and intentions. To use the Pacific Fleet and the army units in Pearl Harbor as bait for the Japanese and not to inform the commander of the fleet and the commander of the army base in Hawaii is beyond my understanding. "
    The admiral will clarify his veiled thought a little later in a short interview, which he will give shortly before his death, saying: "They made me a scapegoat. They wanted to draw America into the war." When asked who he had in mind, Kimmel replied: "This is President Roosevelt, the chief of staff of the US Army, George Marshall, and other senior leaders in Washington."
    Admiral Kimmel passed away, Roosevelt and Marshall have long been dead, but disputes about the culprits of the tragedy in Pearl Harbor have not subsided to this day.