Russians of Kyrgyzstan: Is the Exodus Irreversible?

186
Russians of Kyrgyzstan: Is the Exodus Irreversible?Almost the entire post-Soviet period, Kyrgyzstan and its Russian community were on the periphery of the attention of the Russian public, not to mention the Russian official authorities. The country is small, not possessing significant natural resources, not having common borders with Russia. In the 1990-ies, during the mass exodus of Russians from neighboring countries, and in later times, angry accusations were heard from Moscow about discrimination against Russians against the Baltic countries, and then against Ukraine. Meanwhile, the Russian community of Kyrgyzstan, one of the largest foreign Russian diasporas, was decreasing at a pace that outpaced the rate of Russian emigration from almost all other former Soviet republics. And this process continues, acquiring, it seems, irreversible. In Russia, however, the fate of Russians in Kyrgyzstan is remembered, it seems, only in conjunction with the problem of the growing labor migration of Kyrgyz. Well, and, naturally, the Russian diaspora of Kyrgyzstan became part of the context of the notorious geopolitical concept of “Russian World”, which further complicated its already difficult situation in the host country.

A century and a half together

The resettlement of Russians on Kyrgyz lands began around the middle of the 19th century (the first Kyrgyz tribes accepted Russian citizenship in 1855), and after the main part of present-day Kyrgyzstan (1861-1876) was annexed to the Russian Empire, the influx of Russian immigrants increased significantly. The first appeared the Ural Cossacks, the whole villages moved to Semirechye, and peasants from the south of Russia.

Relations of Russians with the indigenous population developed, in general, not bad. Already a textbook became story that the first Russian churches were located in Kyrgyz yurts, and rich Kirghiz made donations for the construction of Orthodox churches. In this regard, it should be noted that in the conditions of the ethnic diversity of these territories, national and religious tolerance was generally characteristic of the Kyrgyz. But, of course, the picture was far from being benevolent: the difference in cultures and mentalities, the contact of behavioral stereotypes with different ethnic and cultural foundations, throughout the whole period of living together, led to the preservation in the mass consciousness of the division into "we" and "they" with difficult to overcome. between them. In addition, among the Russian settlers in Kyrgyzstan, there were many peasants to whom the tsarist government distributed land actually taken away from the Kyrgyz. This naturally led to conflicts that acquired the sharpest forms during the 1916 uprising of the year. The scars inflicted on each other during this period have not disappeared so far and constantly make themselves felt, especially as the centenary of the uprising approaches. In Kyrgyzstan, as indeed, everywhere, modern politicians are trying to use the memories of the historical past in their present, momentary and, as a rule, unseemly goals.

In the Soviet years, it was not peasants who came to the republic any more, but specialists: teachers, doctors, engineers, highly skilled workers. As well as prisoners of the Gulag, exiles, special settlers and so on. Particularly rapidly, the Russian population of Kyrgyzstan grew in the 1960-s. During this period, it increased annually by a third. But already in the middle of 1970, a gradual return migration began - the return of Russians to the European part of the USSR. The reason for this was the glut of the labor market, in the first place, this related to elite positions.

Mass emigration in the nineties

Of course, after the collapse of the USSR, the Russians in Kyrgyzstan found themselves in a very difficult situation - with the emergence of independent Kyrgyzstan, the problem of identity arose, defining their attitude to the new “non-Russian” state and to the historical homeland - the Russian Federation. The Russians were forced to get used to the role and status of an ethnic minority and put up with the loss of the previous position of the conditional “elder brother”.

But, although the first truly powerful wave of Russian emigration from Kyrgyzstan caused tragic events in the cities of Uzgen and Osh in the summer of 1990, when, during the conflict between Kyrgyz and Uzbeks, up to 15 thousands of people, including many Russians, died in the first decade Independence inter-ethnic situation in the country was relatively stable. At least, there was no need to talk about any large-scale, purposeful threat to the normal life of the Russian community.

In 2000, the presidential decree "On additional measures to regulate migration processes in the Kyrgyz Republic" and the law "On the Russian language" were adopted, giving it the status of the second state. In general, against the background of a number of other countries of post-Soviet Central Asia, the situation of Russians in Kyrgyzstan, which was also considered the “island of democracy” among the local despotic regimes, could be considered more or less satisfactory. And, nevertheless, the mass exodus of Russians from Kyrgyzstan fell on this period - in terms of the scale of the outflow of the Russian-speaking population, the country came out on top among the former Soviet republics.

Experts believe that the main reason for the mass exodus of Russians from Kyrgyzstan in 90 is the economy — the collapse of industry, the growth of unemployment, and the general decline in living standards. Certainly, there was also an ethnic moment, expressed primarily in the “root-raising” of leading cadres and the general strengthening of interethnic competition in the labor market. The displacement of Russians from mixed groups began. By 1994, there were no Russian executives left at all at large. The Russians were, with rare exceptions, pushed aside from positions that allowed them to influence what was happening in society. The introduction of state language proficiency tests for civil servants markedly hampered access to the authorities for "non-title".

The growing migration of Kyrgyz from the countryside has changed the ethnic structure of the cities where most Russians lived and live. In general, there were natural processes that led to a clear predominance of representatives of the titular nation, not only in power structures, but also in the composition of the urban intellectual elite. Poor knowledge of the state language by the Russian population has greatly weakened its position in social and political life, reinforcing the already rather serious disunity of the Russian diaspora.

Finally, mass emigration was very dependent on the elementary instinct of self-preservation and the desire for a normal and stable life and work. We are talking about such powerful stimulants of the outcome, as the growth of crime, the general social and moral degradation of society, which intensively nourished the same everyday nationalism, and not only everyday. To this was added the growth of tension on the southern borders of Kyrgyzstan. After all, the “Batken war” with militants of the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), which went on during the summer months of 1999 and 2000 in southern Kyrgyzstan, became another push for the emigration of Russians. Russian fears associated with the threat of Islamic extremism intensified even more after 11 September 2001.

Strengthening the nationalist "trend"

Any revolution, of course, does not contribute to a normal and stable life and work. In Kyrgyzstan, the processes of political destabilization, the weakening of state institutions and the growth of regional clan conflicts took place in conditions of a deepening economic crisis and the actual impoverishment of the majority of the population. Against this background, Russian emigration from the country began to grow again. For the sake of justice, it should be said that the growth of migration outside the country was not a purely Russian phenomenon: it was around the same years that the mass departure of the Kirghiz to work in Russia began.

Nevertheless, the factors that contributed to the growth of emigration of the Russian and Russian-speaking population intensified. The ousting of the Russian language and Russian-speaking cadres from prestigious spheres of government and economics did not stop. At the same time, in all three versions of the draft new constitution of Kyrgyzstan, developed by the Azimbek Beknazarov commission, the Russian language was deprived of its official status. In Kyrgyz society, heated debates on this issue flared up, during which the preservation of the official status of the Russian language was supported by the majority.

However, as they say, the sediment remained. Moreover, the linguistic problem was not exhausted by a single constitutional status. We can also recall the decision to transfer from 1 in January of 2007 of the entire office work in the country to the Kyrgyz language, which the Russian diaspora was perceived extremely negatively. Then this decision was not implemented - even December 18 2006, President Bakiyev said that Kyrgyzstan was not ready to translate office work into the state language. And yet the nationalist “trend” with a strong xenophobic accent clearly gained strength in the country's political beau monde. For example, the scandalous speech of Deputy Beyshen Abdyrasakov, who replied to the Parliament in the Parliament of the Minister of Labor and Social Development Nazgul Tashbaeva for speaking in Russian, received a wide resonance at one time: he said that “over the years of independence, the monkey could be taught to speak in Kyrgyz language ".

It is characteristic that, even during the April events, “revolutionary activity” often acquired simply a pogrom character in relation to national minorities (Kurds, Turks, Uigurs, Dungans, and then Uzbeks and Russians). Almost immediately, high-ranking ideologues appeared, substantiating the new ideological “trend”. So, Emilbek Kaptagaev, who headed the administration of Roza Otunbayeva, president of the transitional period, just after a week of coming to power (April 16 2010 of the year), said: “Kyrgyzstan is not the state for Kyrgyz people who can’t live here.” The main directions in which ultranationalists intend to act energetically: 1) were quickly identified; legislatively securing the special status of the “titular nation”, in other words, the implementation of the same slogan “Kyrgyzstan for the Kyrgyz people”; 2) the widespread ousting of the Russian language and the total introduction of Kyrgyz. Political advisor to the President of Kyrgyzstan, Topchubek Turgunaliev, developed a draft “Law on the titular nation”, in which the titular was defined as “a nation that constitutes a state”.

Although the Kyrgyz political parties seem to be the bearers of the most diverse ideologies — from national-conservative and liberal to social democratic and communist — a number of their representatives found it necessary to equal the ideological trend that was gaining momentum. For example, the chairman of the socialist Ata-Meken party, Omurbek Tekebaev, said bluntly: "Everywhere there is an unspoken rule that to engage in politics is the lot of the titular nation." The leader of the party “Ata Zhurt” (“Fatherland”) Kamchibek Tashiyev repeatedly stated that only those representatives of national minorities who are ready to obey the Kirghiz and will serve them faithfully can live in Kyrgyzstan. Local leaders also echoed the capital's figures with varying degrees of obsession. Against this background, the bloody tragedy in the Osh region in the summer of 2010, no longer looked like a surprise.

The aggressiveness of the nationalist circles and relevant media has only increased. They consistently injected anti-Uzbek, anti-Russian and anti-Semitic sentiments. Initiatives in the spirit of statements by Kaptagayev, Turgunaliev and Tashiev were constantly launched in the parliament. Some initiatives have been implemented. For example, in February 2011, the protests of the Russian-speaking population caused the decision of the National Commission for the State Language to replace the Russian names of settlements with Kyrgyz.

Contradictory realities

Almazbek Atambayev, who was elected president of the republic in 2011, as it is known, proclaimed a policy of closer rapprochement with Russia within the framework of the Customs Union. Nevertheless, the policy of the new administration in the field of interethnic relations and, in particular, in the language area, caused rather contradictory feelings, including among the Russian community of Kyrgyzstan. It was impossible not to notice that Atambayev appointed Kaptagaev, not someone, but adviser on inter-ethnic relations (then presidential plenipotentiary in Issyk-Kul oblast).

In the 2012-2013 years at the state level, measures were taken to oust the Russian language from office work. In particular, in March 2013, President Atambayev signed amendments to the Law on Official Language, according to which the normative legal acts of representative local governments (kenesh), by their own decision, can be issued exclusively in the state language - provided that owning state language. In this regard, the Coordinating Council of the Russian Unity of Compatriots Union (ROSS) issued a statement in which the amendments, approved by the president, were characterized as “anti-constitutional” and “discriminatory”. Moreover, the ROSS statement stated that “the decision made by the president through 2-3 of the year can put a bullet on the existence of a Russian, not even an official, but a spoken language in Kyrgyzstan”.

At the same time, the president rejected the amendments proposed by the parliament to some legislative acts and to the Law on Language introducing fines for government officials for not knowing the Kyrgyz language. The President noted that the amendments exclude from the law “the obligation of the Kyrgyz Republic to create conditions for the study and development of the native language of ethnic groups”.

By 2030, only 194 of thousands of Russians will remain

With all the ambiguity of the assessments of the national policy of the current Kyrgyz authorities, all the experts have to unequivocally state an objective fact - the Russians from Kyrgyzstan still leave and will leave. Today, Kyrgyzstan is leaving, above all, graduates. Due to the intensive emigration, which affected, first of all, Russian citizens under the age of 45, an intensive process of aging is going on among the remaining Russian population.

Along with economic reasons, first of all, big problems with employment, Russians continue to be greatly disturbed by the language situation and, first of all, by the difficulties in obtaining quality education in their native language, despite the fact that Russian retains very good positions in Kyrgyzstan. According to the 2013 year, 52,6 percent of the country's population said that they speak Russian. Representatives of more than 80 ethnic groups living on the territory of Kyrgyzstan, in particular Kyrgyz and Uzbeks in Osh, Ukrainians and Koreans in Bishkek, Kazakhs and Dungans in the Chui oblast, continue to use them in interethnic contacts.

At the same time, the majority of specialists note that the Kyrgyz authorities, persistently expanding the scope of the state language, nevertheless, still do not actually do anything so that the “non-title” population intensively masters the Kyrgyz language. Teaching Kyrgyz in classes with Russian language of instruction does not meet modern requirements, students who have studied it for ten years, do not speak it as a result.

In general, the full-fledged adaptation of the majority of the Russian population to new conditions during the years of independence did not work out, as a result, apathy and dissatisfaction with people with their position increased.

Among the many political parties in Kyrgyzstan, there is not one that clearly represents the interests of Russians or the Russian diaspora as a whole.

By the way, about labor migrants. The killing of Kyrgyz “migrant workers” by Russian Nazis in recent years, as well as the general increase in xenophobia in Russia, naturally cause a very painful reaction in Kyrgyzstan, which can not but affect the attitude towards local Russians. And this, in turn, is used by the Kyrgyz ultranationalists for every kind of whipping up passions, up to provoking ugly excesses. Of course, the psychological climate around the Russian community is also influenced by the quite heated discussions that have recently unfolded in Kyrgyzstan’s society around the feasibility of the country’s entry into the Customs and Eurasian unions and the resulting threats to national sovereignty.

Yes, and the statements of Russian politicians, not only characters like Zhirinovsky, but also those in power, calling for “protecting foreign compatriots” in the spirit of the concept of “rallying the Russian World”, do not improve this psychological climate, to put it mildly. Especially in light of the well-known actions of Russia in relation to Ukraine. Add to this the growth of Islamic extremism, which acquires a sinister shape against the background of an unstable political situation and a crisis state of the economy.

According to the forecast of the United Nations Population Fund, only about 2030 thousand Russians will remain in Kyrgyzstan by 194 in the year. As the leader of the Russian Union of Compatriots, Alexander Ivanov, notes, the forecasts of the UN Foundation are based on indicators that are characteristic only for the stable development of the country. But who guarantees that Kyrgyzstan has a stable future ahead?

Sources - Ferghana.ru, CentrAsia (PR elements and redundant statistics are omitted from the text when reprinting)
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  1. +22
    4 September 2014 08: 30
    Well, for now, we are seeing more of the exodus of Kyrgyzstan to the cabs of minibus drivers in Russian cities. With earnings in Russia, they really have a relatively stable future.
    But seriously - time will tell, with the right geo and economic policy of Russia and the presence of reason in the heads of the leaders of Kyrgyzstan, we can long and successfully coexist with Kyrgyzstan together on many projects. And where to live the Russian man - he chooses. Kyrgyzstan will need specialists - they will think for themselves. In any case, we need stable relations with neighbors at the borders. The fact that the NATO base goes from there to ... this is only a plus.
    1. +13
      4 September 2014 08: 42
      The gloomy life of Russians in Kyrgyzstan.
      1. +3
        4 September 2014 09: 44
        A mathematics teacher works in our school, a refugee from Kyrgyzstan - during the time of the frantic * rush * of Russian men, women, old people, children, .. were taken out of the mountains with mountain passes. They dragged themselves. And what to do, otherwise the Kyrgyz would just slaughter the Russians (start) to * cleanse the titular nation. * And how to relate to this?
        1. +2
          4 September 2014 12: 03
          Your teacher is lying. This did not reach.
          1. Makosha
            0
            5 September 2014 21: 43
            Reached. And not only in Kyrgyzstan. Russians "got it" in all Central Asian republics. Maybe, except for Turkmenistan. I don't know about her. They also drove us from Kazakhstan. The Germans were the first to fall under the distribution. Well, their houses are tidy, their everyday life is fine-tuned ... Was ... It got to the point that the locals came to the house they liked and offered to leave. Just leave and leave everything. There were disagreements, but only at first ... The authorities allowed everything. Then they began to leave without any requests.

            A friend of our father, a Meskhetian Turk, told us about the 1989 massacre in Fergana (Uzbekistan). They, as Muslims, were asked to attack the Russians. Like, and you tell them we are Muslims, we will cut the infidels. The Turks refused. Then the Uzbeks perpetrated a pogrom and them. In the first days after the tragedy, a documentary was shown, which was filmed by Russian journalists. The road in some settlement, burnt-out broken houses, along the side of the road are long "ranks" of people, apparently burned alive. Little heads. Hands are raised up. And here is such a forest of hands calling to the sky.
            Us in Navoi too fell. Natsik rummaged around in the city, caught and beat Europeans. It was really disgusting.
            This is still under the Union, under the KGB and a strong army. And how after ...
            About Ferghana:
            http://trueinform.ru/modules.php?
            name = News & file = article & sid = 12930

            Osh: http://rusplt.ru/sub/ratings/reiting-Osh-Dushanbe-Fergana-7354.html
            1. 0
              6 September 2014 19: 57
              Quote: Makosha
              They also drove us from Kazakhstan. The Germans were the first to fall under the distribution.
              You're lying like an eyewitness .. laughing
              In place of the Germans, i.e. the opportunity to dump in Deutschland, many dreamed to be, including Kazakhs .. But the Russians were leaving ..
              In Kostanay, there was such a real reason for the divorce: - "It turns out he does not leave for Germany" crying
              Quote: Makosha
              About the massacre in Ferghana (Uzbekistan) in 1989, we were told by a friend of the father, a Meskhetian Turk. They, as Muslims, were invited to attack the Russians. Like, and you to them we, Muslims, cut the infidels. The Turks refused. Then the Uzbeks carried out a pogrom to them.
              That's right, the Turks do. Blamed on the Uzbeks. Even with the pretext that they refused to cut the Russians .. Jews are resting ..
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. +8
          4 September 2014 12: 40
          Quote: Gunsmith
          A mathematics teacher works in our school, a refugee from Kyrgyzstan - during the time of the frantic * rush * of Russian men, women, old people, children, .. were taken out of the mountains with mountain passes. They dragged themselves. And what to do, otherwise the Kyrgyz would just slaughter the Russians (start) to * cleanse the titular nation. * And how to relate to this?

          Anatoly, you have already thrown off this nonsense somewhere, if I am not mistaken the last time even the name Skripkin was present in the text?
        3. +12
          4 September 2014 13: 02
          He himself lived there from the 86th to the 99th, no, different things happened, but he certainly didn’t get to that. And, excuse me, but as far as I remember, you can get to China only through mountain passes from Kyrgyzstan.
          1. +5
            4 September 2014 14: 18
            Quote: Villain
            He lived there from 86th to 99th


            I also lived there from 74 to 94


            Quote: Villain
            not, different things happened, but it certainly didn’t reach that


            Yes, they walked in crowds around the city and shouted "we are a hozhain country, we will expel the Russian and we will live in your houses"


            Quote: Villain
            And, excuse me, but as far as I remember, you can get to China only through mountain passes from Kyrgyzstan.


            And excuse me, how are you going through the Tuz Ashu and Ala Bel passes to Osh and Uzbekistan.
            When they seized the fertile irrigated land in Mayevka near the BCHK and built adobe huts there, descended from the mountains there and began to attack the "pale-faced"
            1. -1
              4 September 2014 14: 38
              They yelled, they yelled, yes. But the ora didn’t go any further.
              1. +5
                4 September 2014 14: 42
                Quote: Egor65G
                They yelled, they yelled, yes. But no further


                Yes Yes. It was impossible to walk around the city, crowds of frenzied people simply beat up pale-faced people who walked alone.
                1. 0
                  4 September 2014 14: 47
                  What years are you talking about? I have not been there since the 94th.
                  1. +1
                    4 September 2014 14: 52
                    I’m talking about Frunze, and there, too, haven’t been with 94.
                    1. +5
                      4 September 2014 14: 58
                      Quote: Heinrich Ruppert
                      I’m talking about Frunze, and there, too, haven’t been with 94.

                      Frunze-Bishkek has changed a lot since then and relations are no longer the same! I get along quite well with my Kyrgyz friends.
                      1. +5
                        4 September 2014 15: 13
                        Quote: Serg65
                        Frunze-Bishkek has changed a lot since then and relations are no longer the same!


                        Here you are right, everything has changed a lot.

                        Quote: Serg65
                        ! I get along quite well with my Kyrgyz friends.


                        The fact of the matter is that you get along.
                      2. +5
                        5 September 2014 07: 04
                        Heinrich Ruppert..Dear, do not distort !!! My brother lives near Volgograd, he just can’t just go to a neighbor, I have a neighbor, Kanybek-Kyrgyz, and I calmly drop by his side and also give me tea to drink. Is this a good relationship? Or do you think this is opportunism?
                      3. +1
                        4 September 2014 15: 15
                        Quote: Serg65
                        It was impossible to walk around the city, crowds of frenzied people simply beat pale-faced
                        I have not seen this. Maybe just lucky? smile
                      4. +1
                        5 September 2014 01: 13
                        My ex-wife’s parents lived in Sokuluk, near Frunze. Great places ... Now the whole family in Germany. So the outcome will continue.
                      5. +5
                        5 September 2014 07: 07
                        Quote: Sergey Vl.
                        My ex-wife’s parents lived in Sokuluk, near Frunze. Great places ... Now the whole family in Germany. So the outcome will continue.

                        The namesake, the Germans left not only from Kyrgyzstan, but also from all over the Union! Modern migration is associated more with economic issues than with political ones.
                2. +5
                  4 September 2014 14: 57
                  Quote: Heinrich Ruppert
                  Quote: Egor65G
                  They yelled, they yelled, yes. But no further


                  Yes Yes. It was impossible to walk around the city, crowds of frenzied people simply beat up pale-faced people who walked alone.

                  Dear, you have not seen in Kyrgyzstan for a long time?
                3. The comment was deleted.
        4. +5
          4 September 2014 14: 10
          oh your teacher lies in the style of ukro-media. There was no such thing. Such things cannot be hidden.
        5. The comment was deleted.
    2. 0
      4 September 2014 08: 44
      Quote: USSR 1971 In Russia, they really have a relatively stable future. [/ Quote

      Quote: USSR 1971
      But seriously - time will tell, with the right geo and economic policy of Russia, we can long and successfully coexist with Kyrgyzstan together on many projects
      I think that in the end, in the end, it will end with the entry of Kyrgyzstan and the rest of the former Soviet Socialist Republics, although not all, back into Russia
    3. +9
      4 September 2014 09: 22
      Kyrgyzstan will need specialists - they will think for themselves. In any case, we need stable relations with neighbors at the borders. The fact that the NATO base goes from there to ... this is only a plus.


      In fact, the situation is very sad for Kyrgyzstan and the countries of Central Asia in general, and if the correct conclusions are not reached, then the consequences will be very difficult to predict for the development of these countries.
      In the year 1980, he was at the wedding of his childhood friend in Alma-Ata, he studied at the border school, there were everyone and a lot of people at the wedding, mostly cadets and students, they raised toasts for Soviet engineers, border guards and so on (golden time), which It was interesting from the titular nation that the people were few, not because we were xenophobic, simply Kazakhs in students and cadets, there weren’t much to say so.
      Then in 1985 there were events on a national basis and then it started. To date, I hardly remembered 2 surnames, who now live in Kazakhstan, the rest in Israel, Germany, the United States and most of them in Russia.
      Left (well, I am very careful about the terms) if not the elite, then the most educated part of the population, especially engineering and technical workers (which is interesting for the last 30 years at a technical university, I met - there are very few who have finished their studies it is from the indigenous peoples of Central Asia, well, all kinds of economists and managers are enough). The conditions and problems, well, for small deviations, are the same as in Kyrgyzstan.
      So I think that scientific and technological progress and development of these countries can not be expected for a sufficiently long time.
      1. +6
        4 September 2014 10: 27
        Good afternoon,



        . Outflow statistics please. And so it's just an empty ring.
        Count how many Kyrgyz and how many Russians have moved to other republics. And compare the statistics. I think the spread will not be big. Unfortunately, the country is poor.

        I live in Almaty. Graduated from Kazakh State University Mehmat. Representative of the titular nation. Our Russian lives very bad. Even in the south. I have parents from there. I read here a comment about Central Asia, I wonder. Has anyone been here studying the layout? And roll the barrel on couch strategists.

        I saw statistics of the Russian population of Kazakhstan over the past 100 years.

        There are fewer Russians since the 90s. And immediately comments like "We learned the Kazakhs, but they spread rot on us." And no one ponders why it is getting smaller. The main outflow of Russians from Kazakhstan was in the 90s. There are a number of objective reasons for this.
        1. Specialists who have been here in distribution since the days of the USSR.
        2. Until the early 2000s, there were hard times. In particular, sometimes there was no bread at home. A lot of people then left.
        3. We have a large number of Russians living in cities. Unfortunately, few people have more than 3 children (Kazakhs also have about 2 children per family). Basically, population growth comes from villages. There 3-4 children is the norm.
        4. Since the time of the Union, Russians in Kazakhstan lived mainly in the north, northeast. And at that time and now most of the graduates of the northern
        areas go to study in Russia. To Saratov, Orenburg, Novosibirsk.

        So nobody drives the Russians here.

        Unfortunately, in Uzbekistan it is worse than ours. But in Uzbekistan, Kazakhs are not particularly favored.
        1. +5
          4 September 2014 12: 24
          Nobody drives the Russians — my friends left Kazakhstan in 2004, they squeezed out of quiet Kazakh nationalism, although their homeland is Kazakhstan. Over the past 10 years, Kazakh society has become somewhat more tolerant in the national sense, I doubt it. In the 90s there was a stream of refugees from Kazakhstan no less than now from New Russia, they squeezed the same out with a quiet glanders, and where not with a quiet glanders. Just about We have forgotten this at the official level for the sake of big politics, but in vain!
          1. +7
            4 September 2014 13: 24
            Unfortunately, it is impossible to give an example: - Like, my acquaintances did not leave Kazakhstan in 2006 because they are happy with everything. I live in Kazakhstan in Kazakhstan, I won’t say that everything suits me, but I’m not going to leave, I definitely don’t need anyone in Russia, and I won’t be able to obtain citizenship because I served in the army of a foreign country.
            1. +1
              4 September 2014 15: 44
              Quote: Canep
              I live in Kazakhstan in Russian, I won’t say that everything suits me, but I’m not going to leave

              my company personally has been ordering me personally for a long time and the miners from Karaganda have been calling want to work ... who explains how - some because of nationalism, some because of salary ... in general, the truth is somewhere nearby :)
            2. +1
              4 September 2014 18: 20
              Sergey, the second time I read about
              I can’t get citizenship because I served in the army of a foreign state

              what nonsense?
        2. +8
          4 September 2014 13: 00
          My husband's family lives in Kyrgyzstan. The Russians live there separately, enclosed, have their own Russian community, usually organized at the church. They are afraid of the hooligan antics of pro-nationalist youths on horseback. It is impossible to get a job, because clannishness rolls over and is excessively corrupt (whoever gave the most to his paw is right). They are outraged by the growth of anti-Russian rhetoric on local channels.
          1. The comment was deleted.
        3. +7
          4 September 2014 13: 28
          I live in Russian in Kazakhstan, I agree with you on the whole, my wife's relatives live in the south, I am in the north, in general, if the government doesn’t allow sharp maneuvers on linguistic and national grounds, then it will be possible to live in the future. I consider the language policy in Kazakhstan the most balanced in the countries of the former USSR. And the most rabid not even in Ukraine, but in the Baltic states.
      2. +4
        4 September 2014 10: 28
        Quote: user
        So I think that scientific and technological progress and development there can not be expected for a long enough time.

        The conclusion in your post is absolutely true that the Russian-speaking intelligentsia and high-class specialists of cities are replaced by the illiterate rural population of the titular nation, who can only dig and sweep with brooms, which leads to intellectual and cultural degradation of the whole country.
        1. +2
          4 September 2014 13: 21
          which can only dig
          can not. I am a builder, believe me, I know what I'm talking about. Well, Ketmen is yes, but a spade is not! Originally from Kyrgyzstan, from our village who could have already left. Kyrgyz people do not particularly like to study, so the state will simply go into the Middle Ages in 20 years. I ask a friend who came to work, buy home appliances from your salary ?. Why, - he answers, we don’t have light in the village or turn it on for a couple of hours. Large enterprises and combines have long been closed.
          In Soviet times, the Kyrgyz leadership positions were very, very few. not because they didn’t allow it, but because they themselves didn’t want and didn’t need it.
          1. +3
            4 September 2014 13: 27
            Quote: tolyasik0577
            In Soviet times, the Kyrgyz leadership positions were very, very few

            But here I do not agree, almost all the leaders were Kyrgyz, but their deputies are Russians or Germans, or ... laughing
          2. +2
            4 September 2014 14: 14
            Quote: tolyasik0577
            In Soviet times, the Kyrgyz leadership positions were very, very few. not because they didn’t allow it, but because they themselves didn’t want and didn’t need it.

            On the contrary, the chiefs were mostly Kirghiz, and clannishness flourished. I studied with the Kirghiz in Moscow. So, several of them asked for distribution to Russia, because there, even with a Baumanki diploma, it was, according to them, very difficult to get a more or less decent position: they argued that they would rather prefer to take it there - and take it! - to the engineering position of "our own" without a higher than "someone else" - even a Kyrgyz - with a higher one.
          3. +1
            4 September 2014 15: 57
            In general, about the law on the Russian language, etc. everything is correct and good, but how is this done, especially in remote places?
            Quote: tolyasik0577
            we don’t have light in the village or turn it on for a couple of hours. Large enterprises and combines have long been closed

            Anatoly, what places are you talking about?
            Quote: Egor65G
            I also lived there from 74 to 94

            Comrades, why argue, you give specific facts and, most importantly, geographical places.
            I propose (not for the first time, excuse me who bothered) to read the _literary_ work "Notes of a refugee" in the part concerning Kyrgyzstan.
            http://www.ognikuzbassa.ru/category-publicism/332-v-rossiyu-zapiski-bezhenki?sho
            wall = 1 & limitstart =
            I repeat once again - this is the literary version. In "nature", for example, on the train, not "stuff" was brought in, but drugs, with a knife to the throat. The throat did not suffer only by a miracle: (The shelling of a car on the pass, where it also miraculously did not hurt anyone, is not described, etc.
            What questions are there - the author and the mentioned local people are nearby, ask for clarification.
            When I read and then listened to what was actually "not literary" there, my hair still stands on end - that's how it was necessary to make ruins from the flourishing and important city of Miley Sai! I would like to take the machine gun and all the guilty ones, even without a wall ... And in general, the Kirghiz guilt is minimal here, they just tsk. children of their age, this story just reflects well what happened to the alas, the once great country :(
            Gazprom is now announcing plans for gas production at a field near Maili-Say. Well, but I can’t understand what they are going to do with radiation and do they even know about it ...
            1. +4
              5 September 2014 07: 19
              Egen..Eugene, a colleague works with me, he lived in Miley-Sai for 22 years, he chopped off 12 years in an electric lamp factory (Russian), I let him read your post so he swore for another two hours !!! Full of lies! The fact that Miley-Sai turned into a seedy town of wine from Moscow celestials from the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, the electric lamp factory was a city forming its closure and played a cruel joke for the city. In Russia, there are enough such ghost towns, or am I wrong?
              1. +1
                5 September 2014 07: 27
                Quote: Serg65
                he cursed another two hours from indignation !!! Full of lies!

                Sergey, didn’t understand what the lie was? You don’t let him read my post, but by reference, they’ll have names right there, most likely they’ll be friends, a small town ..
                Quote: Serg65
                that Miley-Sai turned into a seedy town of wine from Moscow celestials from the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, the electric lamp factory was a city-forming closure and played a cruel joke for the city.

                Well, yes, I’ve written about this, see above, I’m not sorry as a writer, but a techie may not have clearly expressed his thoughts ... :)
        2. +5
          4 September 2014 17: 52
          Quote: skeket
          The conclusion in your post is absolutely true that the Russian-speaking intelligentsia and high-class specialists of cities are replaced by the illiterate rural population of the titular nation, who can only dig and sweep with brooms, which leads to intellectual and cultural degradation of the whole country.

          I am Kazakh, I live in Astana. Unfortunately you are right, the villagers are attacking on all fronts. And they have a very strong clan. That is, if one collective farmer broke into a high position, then he drags along the rest of his relatives, regardless of education and level of culture. And they don’t wave brooms, but sit in high offices by the way!
          It’s not a matter of confrontation between Russians and Kazakhs, take it wider here. The intelligentsia against arrogance, I would say. Moreover, a priori, not all Russians are intelligent and not all Kazakhs are impudent. Just the collective farmers are really united, have connections, do not disdain by any methods and are ready to lick any ass if necessary.
          1. +5
            4 September 2014 19: 44
            Every year I visit Northern Kazakhstan and I never noticed ethnic hatred between Russians and Kazakhs, on the contrary, many interethnic marriages and many Kazakhs left to work in Russia - in Tyumen, Nizhnevartovsk, etc. Clanism is yes, but Kazakh compatriots help Russian compatriots in the same way. The main thing is that a fellow countryman, from one village!
            1. +2
              4 September 2014 19: 51
              in the north and especially in the villages it’s all that way. There is no hostility near
      3. +7
        4 September 2014 15: 55
        In fact, the situation is very sad for Kyrgyzstan and the countries of Central Asia in general, and if the correct conclusions are not reached, then the consequences will be very difficult to predict for the development of these countries.


        Not in 1985, but in 1986, there were December performances in Alma-Ata, and I have a big request for you: do not compare Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, but many Russians and Germans left at that time, but the Germans fell because Germany began to accept them, they wanted to go to Europe, but the Russians, for various reasons, parted, some for a better life, and some because of fear, which, however, as time has shown, turned out to be false. My family and I have not left, I have a big family and we live in different parts of Kazakhstan, Kazakhstan is a big country, if anyone does not know, 9 is the place on the territory in the world. I have not seen and do not see the oppression of Russians, I work in the system of the Office of the President of the Republic of Kazakhstan, the Russian is not oppressed. Were here in 1980 and dare to draw conclusions - is not it a shame?
        1. roskaz
          +1
          4 September 2014 16: 25
          and resolve the question. Do you speak Kazakh?)
    4. +6
      4 September 2014 12: 27
      Well, this is who counted the Kyrgyz drivers in all major cities of Russia. Give a link to Rosstat. (Understood the joke). About the mind in the heads of the elite of Kyrgyzstan, too, not quite. In the heads of the elite of almost all Central Asian republics - to be a bai (bek) and to have their own irrigation ditch. This does not apply to the people, but the elite, without "help" from the outside, will not change every day. And after a couple of generations there will be practically no Russians left.
  2. +13
    4 September 2014 08: 30
    Kyrgyzstan has a stable future ahead?

    On the example of the "southern brothers" we see what a bright future awaits them
    without Russians
    1. Nikolav
      +1
      4 September 2014 13: 06

      My father's cousin lived with me in Frunze with a large family. They are not there now. Slogans like "Russians, we need slaves!" the desire to live in this village was finally undermined.
      1. +4
        4 September 2014 13: 18
        Hey Hey hey. Palegchi-on my dear Frunze why crumble a loaf wassat
        1. +2
          4 September 2014 14: 39
          Quote: Egor65G
          Hey Hey hey. Palegchi-on my dear Frunze why crumble a loaf


          Frunze is also my hometown. And I remember with longing those times when more than 115 nationalities lived there. Everyone went to visit each other, the doors were always open and a drink of tea was waiting for you everywhere. When you walk through the city you see a crowd passing by and they shout out to you "a glass of budesh". Shish kebabs and manti. Fountains near the Central Department Store and Panfilov Park. When nobody was interested in ktoty Russian, Jew, Khahol, Tatar, Ukhbek, Nemets. They were all BROTHERS.
          1. 0
            4 September 2014 15: 12
            129 nationalities, countryman.
            1. 0
              4 September 2014 15: 26
              Quote: Egor65G
              129 nationalities, countryman.


              I still have to list all the names.
          2. +1
            4 September 2014 16: 02
            Quote: Heinrich Ruppert
            When nobody was interested in Russian, Jewish, Hahol, Tatar, Ukhbek, German. All were BROTHERS.

            Heinrich Ruppert, you just struck me a tear in those days, I seriously :( Sadly of course that's all, but what to do now now? :(
            1. +1
              4 September 2014 16: 08
              Eugen.

              Eugene, you are in the same commentary asking where he lived.
              I lived in the district heating station st. Chisinau 92. Frunze
              1. +6
                5 September 2014 07: 27
                Quote: Heinrich Ruppert
                Eugen.

                Eugene, you are in the same commentary asking where he lived.
                I lived in the district heating station st. Chisinau 92. Frunze

                My brother-in-law lives on Pioneer and studied at 52 school smile
          3. +1
            4 September 2014 17: 13
            It is true, at one time there was no such disagreement and no one divided anyone according to nationality (with rare exceptions, and even more as a joke). Among my friends I had Russians, Kyrgyz, Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Tatars, Germans, Koreans, Dungans ... Full international. A lot of time has passed but Frunze-Bishkek is still the hometown, although it has not been there for a long time. All this negativity began to manifest itself from the end of the 80s and reached its peak (as it seems to me) by the mid-90s. Just then most of all they left Central Asia. The Germans, of whom there were many, of course to Germany, the Russians to Russia, and the Ukrainians (and now I occasionally communicate with them) to Ukraine. The fate of the people of the once united country was different. But Bishkek (the last time there was in 2001) presented itself to me as a huge, continuous bazaar spoiled with seeds. Baranov (personally seen) is being cut right on the street in the city center ... There are many relatives left, they don’t particularly complain, but they don’t notice the joy either, they got used to it.
        2. 0
          4 September 2014 16: 00
          Seriously, Frunze now has nothing much to do with the Russians compared to the mountains. Although - well, not Russia yet :)
  3. VICTOR-61
    +7
    4 September 2014 08: 31
    Correctly, the government of Kyrgyzstan chose the path of interaction with Russia than the mattresses, we are firstly neighbors and in which case we will help
  4. +12
    4 September 2014 08: 35
    With their own hands they build a reservation for themselves. Zhirinovsky’s speeches are unpleasant, understandable, but when you have real power in your hands and no one encroaches on it, generosity can be shown and everyone will benefit from this, as India, for example, has won a very large country with English as one of the state languages.
    Collective farm-aul thinking.
  5. Bowless
    +11
    4 September 2014 08: 35
    The greater the Russian exodus from Kyrgyzstan, the fewer places in the cabs of minibuses will remain for the Kyrgyz.
  6. +13
    4 September 2014 08: 42
    I don’t remember where, but a few years ago in some article about Central Asia I came across this: "the Russians left us and there was no one to work." AND? And what were the “blacks” doing then? Anasha smoked, or what? And now the Russians will leave Turkestan - so what? Back to basics? Grazing goats and camels and smoking cannabis? Isn't it time to deport all these goat herders from the Russian Federation back to their historical homeland? Let them work there, at least they clean the shit. We have enough of our own for the vacancy of a janitor. I do not measure everyone with one yardstick, but in the light of everything that is happening ... somehow not very ... Russia is for Russians, and it does not matter who it is, Russian, Tatar, Chechen, Yakut, they are "ours" we don't need chu.rock.
    1. +3
      4 September 2014 08: 56
      I would like to teach you a respected geography, Turkestan is a city in the south of the Republic of Kazakhstan, and we are talking about Kyrgyzstan. Because of such statements as you and begins the national srach.
      1. +12
        4 September 2014 09: 13
        You are only partly right. The message of this master is fundamentally wrong, of course. But most likely he had this:

        Turkestan (Persian ترکستان - "country of the Turks", Uzbek. Turkiston, Kazakh. Turkistan) is a historical region of Central Asia, inhabited by peoples of Turkic origin. The Persian name of the region, Turan, was also distributed earlier (see Turan Lowland) [1]. Historically, the region consists of two main parts:
        East Turkestan is a historical region inhabited by Turkic peoples in western China, the official name is Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region (XUAR).
        Western Turkestan is the territory of modern Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Kazakhstan. Same as Central Asia. The ethno-cultural borders of the region are somewhat wider than the administrative-territorial entities, and also include some areas of southern Siberia, northern Iran and Afghanistan; see “Map of Turkestan” in the article Turkestan (region).
        The short name of Turkestan governorship-general and existing in its borders in 1918 — 1925. Turkestan ASSR. Same as West Turkestan.
        1. +8
          4 September 2014 09: 27
          This is all true, but you can dig even deeper into history, and you will have a map of Great Tartary, so what? Darth Revan incites xenophobic sentiments, and this is not much different from Russophobia, apart from the ethnic or linguistic connotation. Therefore, to subdivide into "Russia is for Russians, and it does not matter who it is, Russian, Tatar, Chechen, Yakut, these are" ours "," and those who did not enter this category "we do not need newcomers." is no different from the Russophobia that flourished "terribly" in Ukraine. Therefore, I agree with Rinat 1, any questions about the oppression of Russians or about migrants are all quite "delicate" topics and you need to be extremely watered. correct. By the way, I was recently in Bishkek, wonderful people, most speak Russian, regardless of nationality. Most are friendly towards the citizens of the former Soviet republics, these are all "fraternal" republics, and even after a hundred years this will not change. Therefore, I am very glad that by the end of the year Kyrgyzstan will become a full-fledged member of the CU, the integration of the CIS republics is always good, even though it will be difficult at first, the transition period is always difficult.
          1. +1
            4 September 2014 11: 04
            Quote: mackonya
            Therefore, to subdivide into "Russia is for Russians, and it does not matter who it is, Russian, Tatar, Chechen, Yakut, these are" ours "," and those who did not enter this category "we do not need newcomers."

            Yes, you at least blame me, but I can’t do anything about myself ... I don’t have anything against the current refugees from Ukraine, because it’s the people that have the same mentality and culture, which even looks different from me, but the massive migration of poorly educated peoples of the Caucasus and Central Asia, who carry an alien culture with me, causes, at least, concern and irritation.
          2. +2
            4 September 2014 12: 04
            Did I say that he was right in his views? By no means ... I just assert that the concept of Turkestan has a very specific territorial framework, and not just a city in the Republic of Kazakhstan, as respected Rinat claims. And this concept is quite possible to operate. Now, if I tell you - this is in Galicia - you will immediately understand what it is about, although such an education has not existed for more than a century. The same can be said about the territory of the Don Cossack - we all know where these lands are, and everyone living there identifies with this, although again - legally it has been gone for almost 100 years. In general, of course, I am amused by those who put a "minus" on the statement of a historical fact laughing This is really funny)
            1. +1
              4 September 2014 12: 33
              The funny thing is, no matter how historically it was true, but if you walk through the cities of Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, then no one will remember about the "Turkestan General Governorship" even though this name is often mentioned in the archives. Therefore, if you tell anyone Turkestan, then everyone will think about the city itself, this is what Rinat 1 was talking about. In general, if a modern man wants to express himself in such a way that his contemporaries understand, then it is necessary to use the names of modern history: Central Asia (Central Asia) , Middle East and others.
              1. +10
                4 September 2014 12: 50
                Erken, only 23 years ago there was a Turkestan Military District (TurkVO) with its headquarters in Tashkent. You are right, if a modern young man hears the word "Turkestan", he will understand it as the name of Turkestan, but there is still an older generation who understands by this word the entire territory of Soviet Central Asia. hi
                1. 0
                  4 September 2014 13: 34
                  Well, about the older generation, I agree.
                2. +1
                  4 September 2014 19: 26
                  Quote: Serg65
                  Erken, only 23 years ago there was the Turkestan Military District (TurkVO) with headquarters in Tashkent.

                  YOU are not quite right. There was a TurkVO, but due to the threat from China, a SAVO (Central Asian Military District) was formed with headquarters in Alma-Ata.
                  1. +5
                    5 September 2014 07: 37
                    There was a mammoth ... smile I just spoke about the historical name of the region, but TurkWo cited as an example, but how can I not know SAVO? SAVO included parts of the SA stationed on the territory of southeastern, eastern Kazakhstan and northern Kyrgyzstan, our 8 I Panfilov Guards Division was just part of this district.
                    1. 0
                      5 September 2014 08: 04
                      Quote: Serg65
                      I just talked about the historical name of the area

                      You are right.
          3. Makosha
            +1
            5 September 2014 22: 11
            Quote: mackonya
            fomenting xenophobic sentiments, and this is not very different from Russophobia

            It differs significantly. Russophobia is always aggressive and is accompanied by oppression and discrimination of Russians, in many cases turning into murders, robberies and expulsion from their own homes.
            Russian xenophobia appears only in response to Russophobia, more precisely, to Ruseno-hatred. Moreover, it does not even carry deportations. In Russia, migrants became insolent to the extent that they planned to hold a joint Tajik-Uzbek rally in Moscow with a planned number of 100 thousand.
            Interestingly, at home they are at war with all "neighbors", but when they come to Russia, they unite against the Russians. That the Armenians are Azerbaijan, that the Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Tajiks.
    2. Roman75
      +2
      4 September 2014 11: 52
      It is clear why we have the sectors of housing and communal services, passenger transportation, construction and auxiliary work filled with guests from the south. Not because the Russians do not want to work, but because Russian officials live at the expense of migrant workers. Find out the official salary of a janitor in Moscow and ask the Tajik how much he really gets. Guess who gets the rest. And so it is everywhere. Unfortunately, we are very corrupt. We don’t think about the future at all. We have more than 2 million officials. Those. if not every family has its own clerk, then among friends, acquaintances, friends for sure. And we eagerly support the native bureaucrat when he says that he roofs the southern brothers. And then we rage: they say, they came here arrogant, throaty. Illogical. Digging for ourselves.
    3. 0
      4 September 2014 16: 11
      Quote: Darth Revan
      Let them work there, at least they’ll clean it.

      You know, unfortunately, not everything is so simple. Above, I gave a link about the city of Miley-Sai. After the mines, to occupy the people, it was at the end of the 60's that a lamp factory was built. And the dishes were released, etc. One of the largest in the USSR. Well, how many kilometers are there through the passes, they drove there raw materials and back light bulbs, on trucks, i.e. - air, and I have no idea how it was possible from an economic point of view, even with the state economy! Of course, I exaggerate a little, but the idea is clear - before gasoline cost a penny, and it was profitable to carry bulbs, but now the structure of the world economy and technologies has simply changed, if it touched even such a distance as Miley-Sai ... or better to say - globalization hit him in the first place ...
      The following is an example - earlier we took Uzbek cotton at the factory for the manufacture of fabrics, then its quality also decreased, but the main thing was cheaper and easier to carry cotton from Pakistan and would not believe from China, which was never associated with cotton; at the same time, their quality is better than Uzbek had before! Well, then the truth from Pakistan and China came not just cotton or yarn, but fabrics, and in Russia they couldn’t produce such quality in principle and there was no equipment, and the plant is gone ...
      So, they there, at home, just have nothing to do ... :(
      1. +5
        5 September 2014 08: 02
        Egen .. Evgeny, the planned economy of the USSR was not so bad as you think. At the end of 60's on the river. Naryn in the Kyrgyz SSR, the grandiose construction of a whole cascade of hydroelectric power stations began; the plans of the Soviet government included the complete electrification of the mountainous regions of Kyrgyzstan and the Ferghana Valley, including the beginning of the construction of the Ferghana Industrial Complex. To ensure the construction of power lines with insulators and to ensure the future of a large number of consumers with bulbs, the Miley-Sai light bulb plant was built! So it’s not so simple in the Danish kingdom smile. Regarding cotton, you are right, after the Margilan and Osh events of the beginning of the 90's from Uzbekistan there was a large outflow of the Russian-speaking population, including cotton processing specialists from here and a decrease in the quality of cotton fiber, my native uncle 20 worked for years as chief engineer at chl. processing plants of Ferghana and Margilan.
        1. 0
          5 September 2014 08: 21
          Quote: Serg65
          Eugene, the planned economy of the USSR was not so bad as you think

          Sergei, you misunderstood me again, or once again I apologize, I don't know how to write ... I know perfectly well that the planned economy was not bad with us, I myself worked a lot with it :), and by my second education I am generally an economist and I studied the planned and capital economy still "in kind" :) in the early 2s, well, not like Gaidar or anyone :) but I know everything well + and -... It's all clear what you wrote, that's why the question is - and Now what? :( Gas production in Kyrgyzstan .... well, maybe, but the times are not the same and what it will give ... so far they do not know in Gazprom either :)
          1. +5
            5 September 2014 14: 47
            [quote = Egen] [quote] [/ quote] It's all clear what you wrote, because the question is - and now what?
            Do you mean the economic benefits of Kyrgyzstan joining the CU for Russia? Yes, almost no, well, not that of course, for example, imports of agricultural products, rare earth metals, rock crystal. More benefit geopolitical! The geographical location is very convenient, by regulating the runoff of the Naryn River, you can influence Uzbekistan by owning the M 41 highway to control mountainous Tajikistan.
  7. +11
    4 September 2014 08: 44
    Cataclysms can be different, but not to the titular nations, such as Russians, Germans, Jews, while very much can even get nuts. Any "broad" nationalist can easily give a damn about the soul. Therefore, it is necessary to help in every possible way the Russians and Ukrainians who decide to move from the post-Soviet space to Russia. Moreover, harshly punish persons from the Russian administration who will try to cash in on this, or just do dirty tricks.
  8. +11
    4 September 2014 08: 47
    But who guarantees that Kyrgyzstan has a stable future ahead?
    If Kyrgyzstan does not rush about like a Ruin, but chooses an orientation towards rapprochement with the CU and subsequently Eurozones, then I think it has a future, but whether it will be bright and rosy depends on the Kirghiz themselves (it will be necessary to work and not wait for help). But then "tricks" with a mattress and other game of kratia will lead the country to a split according to the principle of tribal relations, and then it will definitely be a "kabzdets".
  9. +2
    4 September 2014 08: 48
    Semyon Baghdasarov correctly says that after accepting Kyrgyzstan into the customs union, we will open a pandora’s box. Since Kyrgyzstan is flooded with drug traffickers and drugs, even Tajikistan is not overrun. We need to think a thousand times before embracing the steppes in these children
    1. +1
      4 September 2014 16: 13
      Quote: Ugra
      Having accepted Kyrgyzstan in the customs union, we will open the Pandora’s box.

      but I personally don’t understand yet what will give the Union, really, specifically ...
  10. +7
    4 September 2014 08: 49
    All that is written in the article is the TRUTH. I am Russian myself and had to leave Uzbekistan. The situation in all Central Asian republics is approximately the same.
    1. +6
      4 September 2014 10: 33
      Not at all the same. I am Kazakh. And I have many Russian friends. Nobody forbids speaking Russian. When hiring for a job at a nation, basically no one is looking (At least in large companies). In Uzbekistan, Kazakhs also do not like. The people are a little specific.
      1. +4
        4 September 2014 10: 44
        I agree with you about what is not the same, I had in mind the Central Asian republics - and, as you know, Kazakhstan does not geographically enter Central Asia (Central Asia). Kazakhstan against their background is simply the most tolerant a. And I am very sympathetic to Kazakhstan and the entire Kazakh people. Russia and Kazakhstan are strategic partners, but this is already politics.
        1. +5
          4 September 2014 10: 55
          Yes, yours is true. I express my solidarity with your words: "Kazakhstan, against their background, is simply the most internationalist. And I have great sympathy for Kazakhstan and the entire Kazakh people. Russia and Kazakhstan are strategic partners, but this is already politics."
          I really hope that Kazakhstan does not slide down to the level of Kyrgyzstan. In every sense, on the contrary, it will be pulling up its neighbors both in national and political issues.
          I am for the friendship of peoples!
          1. +3
            4 September 2014 16: 16
            Quote: igor1981
            Kazakhstan against their background is simply the most tolerant

            Quote: nik6006
            I express solidarity with your words

            Guys, I agree with you, we, Kuzbass, have good connections with Karaganda, but - unfortunately, you forget about external factors. Nazarbayev is smart, we respect him - but believe me, not everyone is respected. But alas, he, like our Tuleyev, is already aged, and what next? Alas, Ukraine was even more "fraternal people" ... :(
  11. +3
    4 September 2014 08: 54
    Kyrgyzstan really works a lot in markets, minibuses. And apparently this is the only income of the Kyrgyz state. To understand this, apparently, there is not enough mind - this is where the Nazi attempts come from. And by 2030, all of Kyrgyzstan will probably switch to a nomadic way of life, and the Russians will really have nothing to do there.
  12. +3
    4 September 2014 09: 00
    It is foolish to tear oneself away from Russia and the Kyrgyz people understand this, and we are always glad to good neighbors and friends ...
  13. +3
    4 September 2014 09: 01
    The collapse of the Cossacks in the Civil led that we see in all the Caucasus and Ural regions at the moment.
  14. +5
    4 September 2014 09: 02
    I personally don’t see anything wrong with the fact that an independent country switches to paperwork in the language of the titular nation, any person living in their country is obliged to know languages ​​at least at the household level, the fact that they do not want to learn their language is only a minus to them, for example, I live in Kazakhstan and I am fluent in both Russian and Kazakh.
    1. +7
      4 September 2014 09: 19
      Quote: Rinat 1
      I personally don’t see anything wrong with the fact that an independent country switches to paperwork in the language of the titular nation, any person living in their country is obliged to know languages ​​at least at the household level, the fact that they do not want to learn their language is only a minus to them, for example, I live in Kazakhstan and I am fluent in both Russian and Kazakh.

      If an independent country (Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, etc.) does not want internal problems on a national basis, then there are two ways out:
      1. Federalization
      2. Two state. language
      PS Pay attention to Finland - two state. language, Finnish and Swedish, with Swedes and Swedish speakers a little more than 5% of the population. In Kazakhstan, Russian and Russian-speaking about 40% ... And all the fabrications about the titular nation are nonsense ...
      1. +7
        4 September 2014 09: 29
        Minus from me, I meant if a person lives in this state, he is obliged to know the customs and languages ​​of this country. At least at the household level. So for example, if I live in Russia and will say that I do not know Russian, then this door will automatically shut all the doors, because I can’t even explain what I want. P.S. in Kazakhstan, and so two state languages. And thank God we have no problems on internal soil, unlike Russia. We quietly coexist with Kazakhs, Russians, Ukrainians, Chechens, etc.
        1. +7
          4 September 2014 09: 43
          In Russia, about 5% of the population do not speak and do not understand Russian, but this does not mean that they are second-class people and all doors do not close before them, and they remain full citizens ...
          PS Chauvinism, which appeared in many post-Soviet states, will ultimately destroy these states ...
          1. Siberian
            +3
            4 September 2014 10: 14
            Quote: Rebus
            Chauvinism, which appeared in many post-Soviet states, will ultimately destroy these states ..


            Chauvinism will ruin any post-Soviet state, so EVERYTHING needs to be more careful with nationalism ...
          2. +4
            4 September 2014 10: 15
            And who told you that people who do not speak Kazakh or Kyrgyz are considered second-class people, they do not live badly. Just what they say alone and how completely different things actually live. In order to form opinions about our states you need to live here for at least a month. And you will see how we relate to people. Mostly with respect, and everyone who was here knows the hospitality of the Central Asians.
            PS And everywhere there is enough nationalism; it blooms not only in Asia, but also in Europe, as recent events show.
            1. -1
              4 September 2014 12: 17
              At the household level, maybe, but not at the state level.
          3. +5
            4 September 2014 10: 40
            I have 42 people in the department at work. Of these, 10 people speak Kazakh fluently. I work in Almaty. And nobody complains about life. Chauvinism does not smell at all.
        2. Chestnut
          +1
          4 September 2014 10: 30
          This is how they get along. When Russians emigrated from the beginning of the nineties at least 50%, chic logic plus arrogant rhetoric.
          1. +1
            4 September 2014 15: 24
            And you count in the beginning of 90 how many Russians from Russia went to other countries in search of decent earnings. At that time, there was a large outflow of citizens in all CIS countries due to the decline of the economy and industry.
            1. +2
              4 September 2014 15: 56
              You are right, a lot of people have left, and the worst thing for the Russian Federation is that leading highly qualified specialists have left. Now half of them have already returned, and the rest have simply ceased to be Russians, otherwise they never were. Many "Germans" left for Germany for resettlement, only 15 of my friends / classmates were there. The fact is that the Russian-speaking population from Kazakhstan began to leave not at 91 and not even at the beginning of 2000. Just a lot of Germans left for Germany at that time , but in the Russian Federation there are not so many. But now the emigration is already quite serious in the Russian Federation, mostly young people leave. Only from my hometown Aksu (formerly Ermak) more than 1500 families have left for Russia over the past 3-4 years. There are a lot of technologists / engineers from AZF, GRES, those people who, if not built this production, but adopted the experience of those who built. Now there is a rather serious shortage of personnel, there is not enough RCC, and those who come to teach, in principle, there is nobody already. Although the population in the city did not decrease at the same time, but increased, but at the expense of the migrants of the oralmans, who, unfortunately, were quite boorish, many reacted to their historical homeland and the opportunities that it provided them. Why is this happening? Back in 2000, people from the Russian Federation came to us, they said that in comparison with Russia everything was okay, they were surprised that we can fill out / speak everything in two languages ​​here. Now these same people sit on suitcases. Maybe not everything is so smooth with us now?
        3. +3
          4 September 2014 12: 15
          No one is obliged to learn Kyrgyz, unless specified in the constitution. The opposite is the state owes equalize the rights of citizens who do not know Kyrgyz with citizens the so-called "titular nation".
        4. +6
          4 September 2014 12: 56
          Let's proceed from the facts. The population ... For the period of the collapse of the USSR (89-91): Kazakhs - 6534616, Russians - 6227549 (plus there are still no Ukrainians, Belarusians, Germans, who for the most part were mixed marriages with Russians) Ukrainians - 896240, Germans - 957518, Belarusians - 182601, i.e. roughly speaking, ethnic carriers of the Russian language and culture on the territory of the Kazakh Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic. The total is even more than 50/50. Notice these are people who did not come to Kazakhstan, but were already born here, i.e. The Kazakh Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was their homeland, as was the USSR. For historical reasons, the language of interethnic communication was Russian. In 91, as a result of a coup in the highest echelons of power of the USSR, an independent republic appeared - Kazakhstan. At one moment, the TITLE nation begins to appear with it, i.e. half of the population at once became, in fact, not titular and, as it were, not even state-forming, but with a purely psychological sort of like deprived of their homeland. At the same time, this second half did not betray their homeland even in such situations, although at that time it could very easily have moved to the Russian Federation together with the territory on which its majority lived (and this is the whole northeast up to the south of the country). The Russian language did not receive state status, and was prescribed in the constitution as a language of interethnic communication, which could be used when filling out documentation. And this despite the fact that the Kazakh almost no one knew. Now they want to remove this point from the constitution, and all paperwork to be transferred to Kazakh 100%. What this practice has turned up for the neighboring country is higher in the article.
          I mean, if a person lives in this state, he must know the customs and languages ​​of this country.

          The fact of the matter is that at the time of the emergence of the country we were all equal citizens, but suddenly half of the people became more equal than all the others, a new language appeared, which they began to call the state language, although there were many less native speakers of this language than Russian. You can object to me that the Kazakh language was destroyed by Russians, etc. In fact, he simply could not stand the competition, as he still does not stand it. I don’t want to offend you, I’m learning the Kazakh language myself and not because I need it to fill out documents, but because I like it, but from a practical point of view it is unfortunately not competitive simply because there are very few speakers. As for the Russian Federation, there are more than 80% of Russians and oh, miracle! there is no titular nation, and what is more, Russians are simply not in the country's constitution. smile
          1. +1
            4 September 2014 13: 39
            Quote: adept666
            Russian is simply not in the country's constitution.

            In Russia, nationality is generally not indicated in the documents.
            Unlike ours:
            By the way, in the last picture, the certificate is filled out purely in Russian, the nationality is written - "KAZASHKA" and not "KAZAKSHA" (so it seems correct to write the nationality of the Kazakh, who in the course should correct it)
            1. +1
              4 September 2014 14: 02
              Quote: Canep
              By the way, in the last picture, the certificate is filled out purely in Russian, the nationality is written - "KAZASHKA" and not "KAZAKSHA" (so it seems correct to write the nationality of the Kazakh, who in the course should correct it)


              Shield ????
            2. +4
              4 September 2014 14: 57
              KAZAKSHA - from Kazakh means - "in Kazakh".
              KAZAK - from Kazakh - "Kazakh", "Kazashka".

              This does not affect the level of xenophobia in the country. For everyone lives peacefully. Take a trip, be sure. Everything is simple.
              1. +1
                4 September 2014 18: 01
                Quote: AYUJAK
                Take a trip, be sure. Everything is simple.

                Well, I’ll definitely go on vacation, just tell me where is another Kazakhstan, not the one where Ekibastuz (I live here) Pavlodar (my son was born and studying here) and Astana (here I am going to NIIIT).
            3. +2
              4 September 2014 15: 34
              It says Kazashka, which means that she is a woman. We must take a closer look dear Sergey
              1. 0
                4 September 2014 17: 50
                And how will "Kazakh" be in Kazakh? I think it will be different from the Russian spelling.
                1. 0
                  4 September 2014 18: 16
                  In general, I found a translator from Russian to Kazakh, that's what happened:
                  Almaty region - Almaty region
                  Kazashka - қазақ
                  Ministry of Justice - Әділеттің ministerial_gі
                  From this I conclude that the document (identity card of a citizen of the Republic of Kazakhstan) is filled out in Russian, that is, Russian is officially used in office work.
                  My certificate says Russian, and if it were filled in Kazakh, they would write ORYS. And the Department of Justice is written as well.
                  1. +3
                    4 September 2014 20: 54
                    Sapper

                    I don’t understand why this demagogy?

                    they write in Russian so that Russians can read what is not clear?

                    if chauvinism would have been a long time ago the scribbles changed from krillitsa to Latin you would never have been able to learn Kazakh.

                    you do good and see evil in him, this is who you have to be.

                    I'm sorry but I don’t understand what you are driving at and why this conversation was started, but it smacks of something not good.
                  2. +2
                    4 September 2014 21: 15
                    Yes Minesweeper - written in Russian.
        5. roskaz
          +1
          4 September 2014 16: 34
          One state language is Kazakh. Language Act.
          Article 4. The state language of the Republic of Kazakhstan

          The state language of the Republic of Kazakhstan is the Kazakh language. The state language is the language of state administration, legislation, court proceedings and records management, operating in all spheres of public relations throughout the state.
          The duty of every citizen of the Republic of Kazakhstan is to master the state language, which is the most important factor in the consolidation of the people of Kazakhstan.
          The government, other state, local representative and executive bodies are obliged:
          to fully develop the state language in the Republic of Kazakhstan, to strengthen its international authority;
          to create all the necessary organizational, material and technical conditions for free and free mastery of the state language by all citizens of the Republic of Kazakhstan;
          assist the Kazakh diaspora in the preservation and development of their native language.

          Article 5. Use of the Russian language

          In state organizations and local governments along with Kazakh, the Russian language is officially used.
    2. +3
      4 September 2014 09: 48
      On the whole, it’s true, but this recalls the wise Bible and the narrative of the Tower of Babel: what disagreed with the builders of the grandest project? The Bible is a storehouse of centuries-old human wisdom and thanks to the one who once decided to bring this wisdom together.
      1. +2
        4 September 2014 16: 29
        Natalie, this is my dream - to recreate those times when people were united, spoke the same language (they simply understood each other). Unfortunately - utopia.
        The further we "develop", the stronger the contradictions. Paradox.
    3. serge
      +8
      4 September 2014 11: 21
      There is also technical documentation that no one will translate into local languages, because no one can. It is in Russian. Nobody will translate it into the "title" language with the accompanying invention of many "title" technical terms. With the translation of office work only into the local language, the Russian population becomes extremely uncomfortable with life, and it naturally flees to Russia. There is no one to read the technological instructions. The "titular nation" naturally falls into the Middle Ages, where it was until the arrival of the Russian language and Russian technologies in the XNUMXth century. Or the "titular nation" is intensively studying the Russian language, which is again impossible without the Russian language in all spheres, including office work. It's a vicious circle.
  15. +8
    4 September 2014 09: 03
    With its short-sighted policy begun under O. Akayev and continuing to this day, Kyrgyzstan drives itself into the Middle Ages. Clans rule the republic. There is a tough struggle for power and money. Against this background, the outcome of the Russian-speaking population only accelerates the situation. stop
  16. 0
    4 September 2014 09: 08
    After a summer vacation on the shores of Issyk-Kul, sad memories remained, the local population tries not to speak Russian, the children proudly declare, “I don’t understand Russian,” the atambay was growing like a terry carpet, traffic cops even slow down diplomatic cars at the sight of foreign plates. In the past years, acquaintances were fired upon from military weapons.
    1. +9
      4 September 2014 10: 45
      Quote: Ogogoshka
      After a summer vacation on the shores of Issyk-Kul, sad memories remained, the local population tries not to speak Russian, the children proudly declare, “I don’t understand Russian,” the atambay was growing like a terry carpet, traffic cops even slow down diplomatic cars at the sight of foreign plates. In the past years, acquaintances were fired upon from military weapons.

      laughing Oleg, laughed from your comment from the heart good !! For your information, Issykul residents of Rosiyans carry on their hands, because this is their bread, I would like to look at our traffic cop stopping the car with dip numbers, yeah ... terry atambayshchina, what kind of miracle is this ?????
  17. 0
    4 September 2014 09: 08
    Of course, the national identity of our "brothers" is just as rushing. So it can and leave them alone with their consciousness. Finally, offer the Russians a job in Russia, build houses, and trade with them what they have. Another 30 years and the aging process of the Russians living in these republics will end. Even if these idiots demolish the graves of the Russian ancestors, will they live better?
    The question is different, do we need illiterate nomads nearby? Will these republics develop and where will they go? To NATO?
    Therefore, we need to strengthen ties in trade and supply them with pots for beshbarmak)))))))))
    1. +3
      4 September 2014 12: 19
      Beshbarmak is not cooked in a pan wink
      1. +1
        4 September 2014 17: 56
        Quote: Egor65G
        Beshbarmak is not cooked in a pan

        And where? We cook like this: we cook meat in a saucepan on an electric stove, then we take out meat and into this water dummy-free sheets, and cook until cooked, and then the sheets are spread, and the meat is on top. Separately, steam the onion.
        1. +1
          4 September 2014 18: 04
          As a home option, it probably will. In general, they cook it in a large cauldron. In any case, I have not seen another.
          1. 0
            4 September 2014 20: 49
            Well, it's like cooking pilaf in a pan)
            I personally consider this an important element of the kitchen. I remember how the stove was chosen with a ceramic coating, and so after the seller said that the cast-iron dishes should not be put on the surface, the mood was gone right away)
            just as barbecue should be eaten no further than a meter or two from the fire, so beshbarmak should be cooked in a cauldron and served on a wooden tray.
            although everyone’s business)
            1. Aydar
              0
              4 September 2014 21: 07
              so beshbarmak should be cooked in a cauldron and served on a wooden tray.
              Hahaa ... Looks like you took culinary lessons from Makarevich.
              1. +1
                4 September 2014 21: 27
                are you drunk or something? I wrote about what?
                and Minesweeper down there accused not of the case.
                first read, understand what it is about, and then ulcers.
                here by people like you they judge Kazakhs, not knowing them in life
                1. Aydar
                  -1
                  4 September 2014 21: 50
                  I do not drink, unlike you. And you wrote about the fact that Beshbarmak knows how to cook correctly in a cauldron. I wonder if you still know how to cook hummus in a mortar? And how do you judge the Kazakhs, in principle, I can be mistaken, this is your personal matter how you relate to us, personally to me from your attitude - it does not matter if it is good or bad, it is absolutely sideways.
                  1. +1
                    4 September 2014 22: 08
                    how funny you are)
  18. +8
    4 September 2014 09: 08
    Quote: Ugra
    Semyon Baghdasarov correctly says that after accepting Kyrgyzstan into the customs union, we will open a pandora’s box. Since Kyrgyzstan is flooded with drug traffickers and drugs, even Tajikistan is not overrun. We need to think a thousand times before embracing the steppes in these children
    Dear Oleg, if we do not "embrace" these very children of the steppes, then another uncle named Sam will come, and then to everything that has been said we will get a region not controlled by US, where everything will be directed against us. And so we will be able to control the organs that will deal with these same problems (drug trafficking, etc.). Remember Afghan, the mattress came and drugs began to be produced more. And we will not "control" the Kirgiz, we will get uncontrolled channels, then it will be "crap. And everything that Syoma says must be believed, live with your mind. hi
  19. sergey05
    +3
    4 September 2014 09: 22
    I wonder who this girl is in the photo.
    1. 0
      4 September 2014 11: 44
      The girl is not the titular nation.
  20. +2
    4 September 2014 09: 41
    Let the Kirghiz better consider how many will remain there. And then all sorts of civil wars, interethnic conflicts, China, again, Islamic extremism ... The list of dangers is very long. We must be part of Russia, this is the only way.
  21. +7
    4 September 2014 09: 52
    As if there were not seventy years of Soviet power, the Soviet Union did not have time to collapse, when all fraternal republics came out of the care of Russia and began to slide rapidly into a state in which they were before the 1917 revolution, that is, in a primitive state.
  22. Dardanec
    +2
    4 September 2014 09: 52
    Quote: sergey05
    I wonder who this girl is in the photo.

    In what sense is "who"? What nationality, Russian (Slavic), is definitely not Kyrgyz. feel
    1. sergey05
      0
      4 September 2014 10: 08
      just a name would know
    2. 0
      4 September 2014 20: 11
      Quote: DARDANEC
      definitely not a Kyrgyz. feel

      And kind of tearful sad
  23. Dardanec
    +4
    4 September 2014 09: 54
    Quote: Gunsmith
    A mathematics teacher works in our school, a refugee from Kyrgyzstan - during the time of the frantic * rush * of Russian men, women, old people, children, .. were taken out of the mountains with mountain passes. They dragged themselves. And what to do, otherwise the Kyrgyz would just slaughter the Russians (start) to * cleanse the titular nation. * And how to relate to this?

    Please specify from which region he fled and in what year? Maybe he is a refugee from Tajikistan? And refers to such statements is suspicious (at least). I speak like local Russian.
    1. +1
      4 September 2014 11: 19
      Quote: DARDANEC

      Please specify from which region he fled and in what year?


      He writes - At his SCHOOL. This child, where Kyrgyzstan can’t even show on the map.
      Or his teacher fled in the year 1916 - then there was a massacre. Only the Kirghiz were then slaughtered much more, that 100 thousand fell to China and still live there.
      1. +3
        4 September 2014 15: 03
        Quote: Lindon
        Quote: DARDANEC

        Please specify from which region he fled and in what year?


        He writes - At his SCHOOL. This child, where Kyrgyzstan can’t even show on the map.
        Or his teacher fled in the year 1916 - then there was a massacre. Only the Kirghiz were then slaughtered much more, that 100 thousand fell to China and still live there.

        You will be surprised, but only 9 thousand died as a result of the punitive operation. The rest were frozen at the passes and at the hands of Chinese border guards.
  24. special
    0
    4 September 2014 09: 56
    Quote: Pavlov A.E.
    The collapse of the Cossacks in the Civil led that we see in all the Caucasus and Ural regions at the moment.

    But the Urals did not please? And what are the Caucasian regions?
  25. +12
    4 September 2014 10: 10
    Kyrgyzstan is my homeland. Homeland of my mother, my grandfather and grandmother. Only this Motherland robbed and spat out my parents, my grandfather, who defended the USSR, including Kyrgyzstan during the Great Patriotic War, for which he lost his leg. I would look at the Kyrgyz slaves if the Nazis won the Second World War. My homeland got lice in my heart - there was and is an American military base at Manas Airport. Nationalism flourishes there, Asian nationalism is much worse than civilized European. Religious fanaticism, on the one hand, brought up by the way from abroad, is Turkey first and foremost, and on the other, the Kyrgyz mentality - swagger, khanate, contempt for Russians, Germans, Ukrainians, hardworking Uzbeks and even Dungans, this is a knife that cuts all the ties between peoples living on Kyrgyz land. The non-titular nation used to fasten, drag by the collar of these shepherds sheep into production, and their children to schools, forced them to study, helped the whole world build and develop industry. And now I live in Russia, and thank God! I built Olympic facilities, so here half of the hard workers were from Kyrgyzstan, the other half were Turks. Everyone came to earn money. But in the end: the Kyrgyz are building Russian facilities for Russians with Russian money. But it could have been the other way around, as before, that the Russians went to build their facilities, their industry, their cities. This, excuse me, is simply a nationalist DUK, GREED, UNDERFLOW. I feel sorry for them.
    RS. Kirghiz, hard workers were calling me to visit, the relations were the most normal with them, come to my homeland, see how they spoke beautifully with us. There was a thought, to go and see how it became. But I just remember how late in the evening in Volgograd I met my grandfather, who collected all his belongings that fit into his invalid eared Cossack, well, what he managed to grab from a large house in Frunze, dusty and frozen, as if returning from the war again, only in 1997 year, so immediately the desire disappears. I won’t bring a penny to Kyrgyzstan. And my legs will no longer be there. Themselves, now all ourselves, our smaller brothers ...
    1. +3
      4 September 2014 11: 16
      Shaw, they gave me minuses, and which thread of you minusoids was-lived there? Which of you in the face of the Kyrgyz spit? Did any of you flee from your own apartment, leaving everything behind, just because he is RUSSIAN? So do not tryndit.
      1. +3
        4 September 2014 11: 51
        I put it to you minus! Counter question .. where did you live in Kyrgyzstan?
        1. +1
          4 September 2014 14: 47
          I was born in Tokmak, and lived in Frunze and Issyk-Kul. Mother was born in Issyk-Kul. Relatives stayed there, mostly those who are already elderly, the younger ones all left.
      2. +2
        4 September 2014 13: 14
        I understand you. Plusanul. Kyrgyzstan and my homeland. Everything described by you was experienced by yourself. But I want to note that Russia’s historical homeland is not very welcoming to its sons. I had to face a lack of understanding and even some kind of alienation. And some (such cases are known to me) came back. Much more painful when all this having survived their own, Russians spit in the face. I have already said more than once that the Russian national minorities from the former USSR, in their mentality and cultural level, are more Russian than Russians in Russia. The ugly domestic policy is such that it will feed half the world and help some people in the Caucasus or give gas to Europe, but the interests of ethnic Russians for it (by the way that we see in the same Ukraine) is not a priority.
        1. +2
          4 September 2014 13: 19
          Our mentality is different, from here the problem is in Russia. Sad it all sad
          1. +6
            4 September 2014 13: 40
            Quote: Egor65G
            Our mentality is different, from here the problem is in Russia. Sad it all sad

            But that's for sure, our mentality is different .. in the Moscow metro gave way to granny, so he immediately asked .. young man, where are you from? wassat
            1. 0
              4 September 2014 14: 40
              Ha ha ha, like land laughing And from me in Russia, huh, that after the first send to the x-th wink
        2. +1
          4 September 2014 14: 54
          I agree. He received a Russian passport for 5 years, and then only by court they gave citizenship. So it was - stateless person - a stateless person. Moreover, they regularly called for training, partisan, did not refuse, so surprised the military commissar. While, by the way, all the citizens of the Caucasus were already running with Russian passports, they regularly refused me.
          And about the Russianness of Russian Russians, yes, I began to think that the Russians from New Russia are more Russian than Russian Russians. Sorry for the tautology. There, the guys with guns are on their own to death, but here others forgot that the Russians. Sorry, it's boiling.
    2. +4
      4 September 2014 11: 30
      And I also thought this: almost all the former state countries are so preoccupied with their national issues that in the main law they have special rights for the titular nation and for the language of this titular nation. So how would it be time to think about Russians in Russia, maybe they can finally be designated as the title? But this will not happen, I think, we Russians are not a titular nation and our language is not titular, because we have soaked all our peoples in the former Soviet space with our Russian spirit, we united them all, glued this mass together, and then this mass and was power. They separated us - they got a bunch of wimps, if you don’t gather again in an alliance, not necessarily in a Soviet, but necessarily in a friendly one, then the Europeans, with the Americans and Chinese, will suck out all the juices and throw them away rotting one by one. It is a pity that small nations simply do not understand this and boast of their miserable ambitions, caring only for their personal, own asshole.
      1. +2
        4 September 2014 13: 38
        True, you say, all countries with a mixed culture have several languages ​​in the state status. For example, Canada and India. Our former soviet people raged like everyone at once. You were humiliated by the Russians, forced to work in the mines, not allowed to believe in your god and destroyed the temples ?. Or did not give the opportunity to grow. Every one of them is repeating about freedom from Russia, the master. Already sick.
    3. +1
      4 September 2014 12: 22
      Plusan countryman wink
  26. +2
    4 September 2014 10: 14
    In principle, a fairly balanced and realistic article.
    The main reason for the mass exodus of Russians from Kyrgyzstan in the 90s, experts still consider the economy - the collapse of industry, rising unemployment, a general decline in living standards.
    So it is, and it is important that
    The Russians were forced to get accustomed to the role and status of an ethnic minority and put up with the loss of the former position of the conditional “elder brother”.
    And personally, the main reason for this seems to me. Indeed, for all Soviet time, and the years of independence, the main part of the Russian community did not know and did not even want to know the Kyrgyz language, it was derogatory and dismissive of the Kyrgyz. And probably only in the last 5-6 years, the Russians of Kyrgyzstan began to speak, if not even to speak, then fully understand the Kyrgyz language. And most importantly
    Teaching the Kyrgyz language in classes with the Russian language of instruction does not meet modern requirements, students who have studied it for ten years, in the end, do not speak it.
    This is the biggest trouble for our homegrown philologists. Nevertheless, after talking with amers (NATO base) and all kinds of NGOs with the money of the same amers, realizing what it is, both the people and this elite elite sharply turned on the path of rapprochement with Russia. Moreover, the example of Ukraine is before my eyes. Yes, there are some cries of all kinds of figures, but thank God they do not determine the main course of the country.
  27. +4
    4 September 2014 10: 32
    Quote: DARDANEC
    Please specify from which region he fled and in what year? Maybe he is a refugee from Tajikistan? And refers to such statements is suspicious (at least). I speak like local Russian.

    Exactly, with suspicion. About the fact that the Russians from Kazakhstan fled on rails at night, having thrown all their property, we, too, were surprised to find out on Russian sites. ))))
  28. +2
    4 September 2014 11: 01
    Like it or not, we will have to build (rebuild) one large common country, which means that there should be a common language for everyone, while only the Russian language claims this. The more different languages, the less mutual understanding between people, this is exactly what Hitler was going to do in the conquered territories. Well, to know, besides Russian, the language of native nationality and one more - two languages ​​of those with whom you live next to you is not very bad, but you don’t need to make a fetish out of it, don’t force others to learn the language forcibly, only voluntarily. Well, how will we build something in common, how will we understand each other if we speak different languages.
  29. Chestnut
    +7
    4 September 2014 11: 03
    The national policy of the Communists continues today, it has not been interrupted in Russia after the 90s. As was the case in Soviet times, it was enough to have a party ticket in the republics and the movement of the nationalist to the top of the stairs was provided with sweeping the Russians along the way. So now it’s enough for the country's leadership to say that it is in alliance with the Russian one and everything that is happening inside the country is not interested in Russia, like Belarus, Kazakhstan and the article by itself. I want to remind you of the beginning of the nineties Georgia supported by Russia Shevarnadze for his statement that he is on the way with his big brother. Well, in the future, a quiet shift towards NATO and the EU, support for the construction of a gas pipeline from Azerbaijan to Turkey, squeezing out Russian bases, and, ultimately, Saakashvili’s rise to power, little is said about it, but Misha raised Eduard in gratitude. Mishka even called his first son Edik. , all this that was visible from the outside, but what was inside, according to the 1989 census, six hundred thousand Russians lived in Georgia, today there are not even sixty thousand of them. The result of Georgia’s foreign policy is obvious. Therefore, the policy of Russia should be reduced to the following: do not want the hesitant to become your enemy, press him so hard that he can’t move for him, will you be all the more so since you live 100% anyway on your money. It’s not like there wasn’t non-ferrous scrap in Georgia in recent years, and the collection of ferrous scrap has been falling, although it still took the first place seven years ago and even now takes no less than the third place, and Georgia almost does not produce metals.
  30. +12
    4 September 2014 11: 19
    I was born and raised in Jalal-Abad, then still in the Osh region. In front of my eyes, what was then called "the awakening of the national consciousness of the Kyrgyz people" was happening. In childhood and adolescence, we did not share, especially on ethnic grounds. In our friendly company there were two Kyrgyz, three Russians, an Uzbek, a Uighur and a "25 percent Tatar", and of the three Russians, one was Ukrainian, which I learned only at the military registration and enlistment office when submitting documents to HVVAUL. Although in "adulthood" everything was rather harshly divided: the Kyrgyz authorities, the police, the administration (city executive committee, city committee). Uzbeks - "commerce" gortorg, kooptorg, public catering. Russian-speaking (and these are Russians, Ukrainians, Germans and even Koreans, ie not Muslims) were represented everywhere in proportion. Hemorrhoids began with a weakening of central authority. The Kyrgyz wanted "nishtyaks from commerce" - money, the Uzbeks wanted a "roof" of power. The rest were under "pressure." I forgot to clarify, they were 33% and 34% of the total population, Russian 21%. The "stuffing" began: "We have everything - uranium, molybdenum, gold, and nature is even more beautiful than in Switzerland (which is true by the way), so why should we feed Russia and the Russians?" And this was not stopped. Under the guise of bai, khans and khojas, they took away what had been built for decades, and the massive lack of technical skills among the national cadres contributed to the degradation and collapse of all more or less complex industries. As a result, the reason, in my opinion, lies in treason, not of national elites, but in the treacherous connivance of the Moscow authorities. I would like to say a lot more very disgusting about the Russian bureaucracy because of the greed and arrogance of which the Motherland of the ancestors turned out to be "an evil stepmother for those who left in the 90s, but I will not because once, I have to work.
    1. +5
      4 September 2014 11: 38
      Plus you +
      "The treacherous connivance of the Moscow authorities" also humiliates and destroys the Russian outback, and here, in Russia, the main saboteurs are dishonest officials.
      1. +1
        4 September 2014 14: 20
        What a betrayal of Russia? !!! Everyone suddenly became independent and did not want to have external control. And what do you want Russia to suddenly stop migration with its "strong" hand, or continue to promote the development of industry in the neighboring republics, while it was itself on the brink of a split? The Russian leadership is guilty of leaving those whom it sent to the union republics to raise industry and the national economy, one-on-one with migration problems. Until now, in order to obtain citizenship, a "Russian" in Russia needs more than one threshold and more than one bribe.
        And the union republics did not lift a finger to keep the staff at home. But because "Uncle Sam" gave such a directive. Oh, how you all instantly fell under it. And Russia at one time, too, was already prepared, but thank God it was able to wriggle out.
        1. 0
          4 September 2014 14: 56
          re-read my posts, you will understand what I wanted to say.
          there is a huge difference between the "treacherous connivance of the Moscow authorities" and the phrase "betrayal of Russia", don't you think?
    2. +2
      4 September 2014 15: 12
      Plus, too. The Russians forget that the main betrayal was from Moscow. And most importantly, try to understand: the best guarantor of the existence of Russians in Central Asia is the existence of Russians in Central Asia.

      And on the topic, in Kyrgyzstan 10 times was in Issyk-Kul. Previously, most of the villages around the lake were Russians - now not a single one. Russians from the Kyrgyz countryside speak Russian poorly and with accent. More or less fully, they live only in Bishkek, who have the means — they have back-ups in Kazakhstan or in Russia.
      This situation has little to do with the situation of Russians in Kazakhstan; I ask you not to row everything in one pile.
  31. +3
    4 September 2014 11: 39
    Russian-live in Russia !!! This is our homeland and we will bring more benefits to it at home than in a foreign land.
  32. +10
    4 September 2014 11: 52
    I read the article, I will say right away the article is superficial. After reading, a vile feeling crept into my soul that the article was custom-made, strongly reminiscent of those emission articles about the oppression of Russians in Kazakhstan, those articles that appeared just before the signing of the European Union. I will say right away, I am Russian, I live in Kyrgyzstan already in the 4 generation. Yes, I won’t lie, a lot of Russians left ... but they left mostly from hopelessness. Frunze in Soviet times was one of the industrial centers, some plants were unique and had no analogues in the Union. After the collapse of the USSR, the plants got up, it was extremely difficult to find work; those who were quick-witted had rushed into trade, into small-scale production, who could not realize themselves, began to leave. From many Russian villages only names remained, the Russian community is now mainly concentrated in the vicinity of Bishkek and Issyk-Kul. Regarding the infringement of the Russians ... 100% of high-tech enterprises (yes, there are some in Kyrgyzstan, there are not many, but there are!) The owner is if the Kyrgyz, then the engineers, the workers 90% are Russian. I personally do not notice any infringement, of course there are clashes at the household level, but they are also present in Russia between neighbors. Some here write about some kind of shooting, the dominance of drug dealers and other passions, Mardasti, this is complete nonsense of officer daughters! Well, somewhere like that, but the main idea was not about that.
    1. +1
      4 September 2014 15: 08
      Plus, Sergey, something recently in VO there are a lot of such low-grade statues. Reading komenty you understand how some people see our countries from the side. And after such komenty you begin to doubt whether we need such allies?
      1. +2
        4 September 2014 16: 23
        Quote: Rinat 1
        Reading komenty you understand how some people see our countries from the side. And after such komenty you begin to doubt whether we need such allies?

        Guys, what to do next? :(
        1. +7
          5 September 2014 08: 21
          Egen .. Eugene, and then what? And then to live, to love loved ones, to honor parents, to educate in children humanity and love for the motherland, to respect neighbors. If we again return to our hearts that philanthropy that was present before then the world in our circle will begin to change hi
  33. +1
    4 September 2014 12: 02
    The Ural Cossacks first appeared, moving whole villages to Semirechye,

    Semirechye Cossack army created from the resettled Siberian Cossacks.
    About resettlement in Semirechye Ural I hear the Cossacks for the first time.
    1. +1
      4 September 2014 12: 27
      Quote: Sour
      The Semirechye Cossack army was created from the resettled Siberian Cossacks.

      Add the same Kuban Cossacks.
      1. 0
        4 September 2014 12: 51
        Thanks for the information. Thank you even more if you give details.
        I know about the resettlement of the Kuban to the Far East, their participation in the creation of the Ussuri Cossack army. But so far I have not heard of the resettlement of the Kuban in Semirechye.
        1. -1
          4 September 2014 13: 11
          My ancestors from the Kuban settled in Issyk-Kul in gray times. In my opinion, the village of Grigoryevka still stands, unless of course title nation not renamed.
          1. 0
            4 September 2014 13: 28
            Quote: Egor65G
            Grigoryevka village

            There was no such village in the Semirechensky army.
            Quote: Egor65G
            My ancestors from the Kuban

            Which does not mean at all that they belong to the Cossack estate.
            Actually, I spoke about the origin of the Semirechye Cossacks, and not about the Russian colonization of the Semirechye as a whole. Not every Russian-speaking resident of Semirechye was a Cossack. I suppose this does not need to be clarified.
            1. 0
              4 September 2014 13: 38
              Quote: Sour
              I suppose this does not need to be clarified.
              I, dear, do not need anything about the Cossacks smile The fact that there was a village Grigoryevka in Issyk-Kul-100%. And the fact that my ancestors, Cossacks from the Kuban, is also 100%.
              1. 0
                4 September 2014 13: 47
                Quote: Egor65G
                The fact that there was a village Grigoryevka in Issyk-Kul-100%. And the fact that my ancestors, Cossacks from the Kuban, is also 100%.

                Sorry, I do not believe for a second.
                If from the Kuban, it does not mean that the Cossacks.
                The population of the Kuban in 1916 was Cossack only 43%.
                Your Grigoryevka was not a Cossack settlement, but was a peasant. Among the 22 Semirechye villages there was no such village.
                And the Semirechye Cossacks did not have any "villages", there were villages and settlements.
                And it cannot be, in principle, for a Cossack to be relocated to another region and withdrawn from the Cossack estate. Your Kuban ancestors, since they became Semirechye peasants, in the Kuban, too, were not Cossacks.
                I, dear, do not need to hang noodles on my ears. Find another for this purpose. I know the history of the Cossacks - God forbid everyone.
                1. 0
                  4 September 2014 14: 43
                  Quote: Sour
                  no need to hang noodles on ears
                  this concludes the discussion with you.
                  1. 0
                    4 September 2014 16: 43
                    Quote: Egor65G
                    this concludes the discussion with you.

                    And what else remains of the talker, who was caught in a lie and pinned to the wall?
                    Just shut up. Nothing else.
                    1. 0
                      4 September 2014 16: 49
                      Would you pass mummersto a known address? And perhaps ignore you,.
            2. +4
              4 September 2014 13: 50
              Sour (2) But the Kubans in the Semerechensky army were still present, they even left their uniform No.
              1. -2
                4 September 2014 14: 01
                Quote: Serg65
                Sour (2) But the Kubans in the Semerechensky army were still present, they even left their uniform

                It is not true, the form of the Semireks was the same as that of the rest of the "steppe" Cossack troops. You are a fat two in the history of the Cossacks. Cossack troops were divided into "steppe" and "Caucasian" in uniform. The shape of the Semireks was the same as that of the Donets, Transbaikalians or Siberians, only stripes and caps were crimson (like those of the Urals).
                Semireks and Siberians wore the so-called. "Yermakovka", similar to the Chekmeni Circassian. They were not used as an official dress.
                In addition, the Semirek officers during the Civil War often wore Caucasian style beshmet, but this was found among all Cossack troops.
                Once again - no noodles needed. Or hang it with another. There are things that I understand.
                1. +4
                  4 September 2014 14: 10
                  Sour (2) .. For God's sake, figure out who's stopping you? Just do not spit saliva! For what I bought, for that I sell sites.google.com/site/semirechje/home
                  1. -2
                    4 September 2014 14: 14
                    Quote: Serg65
                    Just do not spit saliva!

                    And I wish you the same. And I also wish to lie as rarely as possible. And do not talk in expert tone about matters where you are zero without a wand.
                    1. +4
                      4 September 2014 14: 51
                      Quote: Sour
                      Quote: Serg65
                      Just do not spit saliva!

                      And I wish you the same. And I also wish to lie as rarely as possible. And do not talk in expert tone about matters where you are zero without a wand.

                      The order of service of the Cossacks was determined by the Regulation on the military service of the Cossacks of the Semirechensky army 1879 year. The army was subordinate to the Main Directorate of Cossack troops, which exercised leadership through the commander of the troops of the Semirechensk region, who was both a punishable ataman, and subordinated to the Turkestan governor-general from 1899 of the year. The villages were headed by the village chieftains, subordinate to the punishable chieftain. The Semirechye Cossacks served for 18 years, and then for 10 years they were in the village militia.

                      The army quickly developed and grew stronger. If, for example, in 1994 there were 32 people in the army (according to the census), then in January 772 there were already 1916 people. If initially the army consisted of Siberian Cossacks, then at the end of the 45th - the beginning of the 307th centuries, the army was replenished, mainly at the expense of the Kuban Cossacks, who, in kurens, voluntarily left to develop new lands. At the request of the Kuban people at the beginning of the 0th century, they were officially allowed to wear the uniform of the Kuban Cossacks. And the Semirechenskoe army became the only Cossack army of the Russian Empire, where the Cossacks wore two types of uniforms: - Siberian and Kuban Cossacks ... http: //skvskr.ucoz.net/index/istorija_skv/4-1909 and plus to this "" History of Semirechensky Cossack troops "N. V. Ledenev, XNUMX, Verny" No. the prize goes to readers! I'm not an expert God forbid.
                      1. -2
                        4 September 2014 16: 23
                        Quote: Serg65
                        who are smokers,

                        "Kuren" is a term from the 16-18 centuries. The author of your article doesn't even know that. In the 19-20 centuries, the Kuban Cossacks were not divided into "kurens". This is how the hut was usually called in the Western Kuban, and this term had no relation to the organizational structure of the army for a long time.
                        Quote: Serg65
                        And the Semirechensky army became the only Cossack army of the Russian Empire, where the Cossacks wore two types of uniform: - Siberian and Kuban

                        Did not wear either Siberian or Kuban. The form of the Semirechye Cossacks had their own, with their own military color (crimson). And how do you represent the Cossacks in the ranks in different forms? Throw your link you know where, Mr. "not an expert, God forbid." laughing
                        That's a fact. what the author said about the "Siberian form" speaks of the level of his competence.
                        Anneal further, Mr. "no expert".
                      2. +5
                        5 September 2014 08: 39
                        Sour .. My dear, that’s how many times I’ve thrust you into the dung with my nose, but you strive to jump out! Plus you for perseverance good In Bishkek, on Chekhov St., the descendants of the Semirechye Cossacks live from the village of Samsonovskaya, now the ayaly of Burundai, which is at the entrance to the Boom Gorge, because their great-great-grandfather comes from the village of Ponurskaya, Taman Department. The head of the family Grigory Mikhailovich still carefully preserves grandfather's relics. For sim and take my leave hi
          2. +5
            4 September 2014 13: 49
            Quote: Egor65G
            My ancestors from the Kuban settled in Issyk-Kul in gray times. In my opinion, the village of Grigoryevka still stands, unless of course title nation not renamed.

            I hasten to reassure you, they did not rename Grigoryevka, there are many more Russians there, as well as in Semyonovka and Ananyevo.
            1. +1
              4 September 2014 14: 45
              Thanks for the information.
        2. +4
          4 September 2014 13: 12
          Quote: Sour
          Thanks for the information. Thank you even more if you give details.
          I know about the resettlement of the Kuban to the Far East, their participation in the creation of the Ussuri Cossack army. But so far I have not heard of the resettlement of the Kuban in Semirechye.

          sites.google.com/site/semirechje/home read interesting historical calculations.
          1. -1
            4 September 2014 13: 21
            Thanks, be sure to read.
  34. +1
    4 September 2014 12: 02
    Unfortunately, our Law "On Citizenship" does not give Russian or Russian-speaking foreign citizens the opportunity to quickly and easily obtain Russian citizenship, there is no real program for the resettlement of our people to Russia, the program that was or is still in force, one mockery of people. And we also have such an "excellent" structure as the Federal Migration Service of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation, where corruption simply rules the show, money in the evening is a passport of the Russian Federation. probably not a single Russian would have remained long ago.
    1. -3
      4 September 2014 12: 16
      Citizenship in Russia is needed for the civil service, military or police service, for a political career.
      To live, study, work or do business in Russia, citizenship is not necessary. And to buy a home, it is also not necessary.
      So do not make the problem out of the blue. Difficulties in obtaining citizenship are not an obstacle to moving to Russia. There would be a desire to live in Russia, and citizenship will be given a maximum of 5 years later anyway.
      The main problem is the high cost of housing, rather than citizenship.
      1. 0
        4 September 2014 19: 48
        I don’t understand why they will be minced))
  35. +6
    4 September 2014 12: 35
    The main wealth of Kyrgyzstan is its geopolitical position, "owning" Kyrgyzstan, you can control almost all of Central Asia and China up to Pikin, so this country has become a bone of contention between Russia, China, the United States, Turkey and all kinds of Islamists. If the last three players are actively present on the local playing field, then Russia's actions are so insignificant and incomprehensible that sometimes it is even a shame for Mother Russia !!! If Tazha Turkey actively builds mosques in Kyrgyzstan, promotes Turkish business, opens universities and colleges, supports the Turkish diaspora, then Russia is practically inactive in this regard. The impression is that people have come to Russian diplomacy who believe that money can buy the loyalty of the people. The loyalty of the elite can probably be bought, but the good attitude of the people is vryatli. Creating a fertile ground for promoting the "Russian World" requires a lot of effort, but what do we see? Ask a Russian citizen in Bishkek .. a Russian consul, man or woman, has he seen the consul in the eyes, is the Russian embassy involved in the life of the Russian diaspora ????? I assure you, if one in a thousand answers something intelligible, then this is a great success! The head of the Orthodox Church is generally nonsense! It is quite difficult to understand his speech, and at least three higher educations are needed to analyze and bring his thought to its logical conclusion. Russians here are doomed to self-survival, while they do not stand near the embassy with an outstretched hand, but live and some do not live badly, while trying to somehow preserve the Russian spirit in this country.
  36. 0
    4 September 2014 12: 37
    Well, this killing attitude to not wanting to learn the Russian language of the local people and the state is simply killing.
    The phrase, even studying for 10 years at a Kyrgyz school can not be learned. What kind of nonsense ???????
    All non-Russians who go to Russia, if at least somehow in contact with the local Russian, the population immediately learns the language, without books, without schools, without any programs !!!! They don’t know only those who are closed at a construction site or in warehouses, where they can’t contact with Russians.
    Therefore, this is all nonsense, just the Russians in the localities for the most part stupidly do not want to learn the language. Everything else is ridiculous excuses.
    1. +1
      4 September 2014 13: 16
      Russians (most) have always lived in cities, and there the Kyrgyz was not needed. My father grew up in a village and spoke Kyrgyz fluently. The great Aitmatov at a meeting always hugged his father, respected and praised for real Kyrgyz.
      Quote: Yeraz
      The phrase, even studying for 10 years at a Kyrgyz school can not be learned. What kind of nonsense ???????
      -can teaching is this, do not you think?
      1. 0
        5 September 2014 16: 49
        Quote: Egor65G
        -can teaching is this, do not you think?

        Yes, what does teaching have to do with ????? Russians live among the Kyrgyz, around there are only Kyrgyz !!!! Without a school, you can easily learn a language.
        At our workplace, the guy came from Azerbaijan in Russian, even did not know hi, and now he can at least somehow explain, although communication with the Russians is at a minimum and then at work.
        And here people living among millions of Kyrgyz people cannot learn the language, well, this is ridiculous.
        1. 0
          5 September 2014 16: 58
          So that's just the point - no one in Frunze spoke Kyrgyz. And at this time, I believe, language teaching is not up to par.
          1. 0
            5 September 2014 17: 27
            Quote: Egor65G
            And at this time, I believe, language teaching is not up to par.

            I don’t say at what level teaching is there. I don’t know this.
            I’m saying that right now the cities are filled with Kyrgyz and Russians being in this environment can easily learn the language. WITHOUT TEACHING AT SCHOOLS !!
            1. -1
              5 September 2014 17: 56
              Are you in Bishkek?
              1. -1
                5 September 2014 23: 50
                Quote: Egor65G
                Are you in Bishkek?

                No in St. Petersburg. And I can clearly see how non-Russians learn Russian without teaching in schools.
                My mother learned Russian stupidly looking telly and stupidly in the dictionary.
                The Mongols studied with me, they came with zero knowledge of Russian. And for 5 years they taught him perfectly, although the level of teaching the Russian language at our university wanted the best.
                I also watched how the Russians in Baku did not want to learn Russian, but unlike the Cossacks and Kyrgyz, after independence, no one started talking to each other and all Russians quickly mastered Azerbaijani. Although the level of teaching Russian is at a very excellent level.
                I very much doubt that it is worse in Kyrgyzstan since there were many more Russian-speaking people there. There is even a more Russified population. I saw an example of hatred of the Kyrgyz from the south to the Kyrgyz from the north.
                1. -1
                  6 September 2014 11: 53
                  I agree with you on something. When fully immersed in language environment You can learn a language if you wish. I have learned Hebrew. In Frunze, such an environment was absent, everyone spoke in Russian.
  37. +5
    4 September 2014 14: 08
    I read the article, read the comments, I draw a conclusion for myself: on the eve of 1917, there were riots all over Russia under the motto "Russia is a prison of peoples, the prison is broken, people are liberated", and the prison was broken, the peoples were freed, and so that they died of hunger in bundles ... These unrest were provoked by shit-western countries. On the eve of the 90s, "Russia is a prison of peoples ...." hereinafter in the text up to th ... Western countries, they even went hungry. What do we end up with? And we have the following:
    a) why we are better than Ukrainians, continuing to jump on the same rake with no less enthusiasm, because at the moment "Russia is a prison of peoples ..." is advancing, you understand;
    b) strength is in unity, but even tales in which the wisdom of peoples do not teach us anything (a tale about a broom and twigs);
    c) time goes on, but the enemies remain, and the same ones and it’s time to know them not only by sight, but also by X-ray photographs;
    Maybe we’ll start somehow wiser, huh?
    1. +1
      4 September 2014 16: 15
      You are fat plus! You can’t lose your head on the basis of nationalism. This leads to a dead end.
      1. Aydar
        -1
        4 September 2014 21: 12
        It is clear that for you a dead end approach is any nationalism (Kyrgyz, Kazakh, etc., etc.), besides Russian. Russian nationalism is probably progressive and advanced for you. Could not write with a diagnosis, and so everything is clear.
        1. +1
          5 September 2014 09: 18
          Why do you hate Russians so much?
          Russians have never been nationalists, for the whole 20 century, internationalism has been hammered into the head of the Soviet people, and if there is some insignificant percentage of the population who do not accept a foreign culture, this is not an indicator or characteristic of the Russian spirit. Fascist Nazism taught the Russians a lot, it was an excellent vaccine against nationalism.
          Now tell me, how did the Kyrgyz people suffer from the presence of Russians on their land? what were the consequences of this? Why are Russian people born on Kyrgyz soil, working for its good and prosperity, giving birth to children in this state, why are they forced to leave, abandoning their property or giving away the titular nation for a penny, while being humiliated and insulted?
        2. 0
          5 September 2014 09: 29
          And where is the argument about nationalism here ??? As part of Russia, a lot of people and they are all Russia! And when Little Russia was Azerbaijan and Uzbekistan, and Russia was also. It is amazing how you served as a colonel on a site with such a worldview! Sadness, but because of such statements, the USSR crashed when everyone shouted, and I kept everything on me. Not a single nation has ever been belittled in Russia. Moreover, small nations cherished and cherished, their identity as one of the facets of a diamond. I think you understand that the more of them, the more valuable the diamond.
          Believe me, I happened to drive the country from the west to the east, I saw and heard a lot of different things, there are much more good people and no one thinks about any chauvinism, they just LIVE.
          1. +1
            5 September 2014 21: 05
            Dear Styx, my post was not intended for you, but Aydar (5) KZ Yesterday, 21: 12.
            I really did not like his sarcasm.

            To you and your words, "Never in Russia has any nation been belittled. Moreover, small nations have been cared for and cherished, their identity as one of the facets of a diamond." I can only join and agree, this was the case in Kyrgyzstan, I remember that there were a bunch of newspapers in Kyrgyz, 2-3 TV channels, there were a lot of performances by national creative teams, nobody belittled the Kyrgyz language, on the contrary, everyone who wanted to use it and spoke it, and absolutely there was definitely no Russian nationalism.
  38. Aydar
    +5
    4 September 2014 15: 32
    Quote: Kilo-11
    Nobody drives the Russians — my friends left Kazakhstan in 2004, they squeezed out of quiet Kazakh nationalism, although their homeland is Kazakhstan. Over the past 10 years, Kazakh society has become somewhat more tolerant in the national sense, I doubt it. In the 90s there was a stream of refugees from Kazakhstan no less than now from New Russia, they squeezed the same out with a quiet glanders, and where not with a quiet glanders. Just about We have forgotten this at the official level for the sake of big politics, but in vain!

    I flew from Thailand with a Russian woman named Natalya, she lives in Montreal (Canada) and flew in transit to Almaty, where her father stayed. All the way she complained to me about how her Kazakhs "pushed" her to Canada and how bad her life was there, and how good she is now in Canada where there are no Kazakhs. I asked what she was doing there, she generally does various work there, at one time she worked in the laundry room, at other times she took out gamno from under the patients in a Canadian hospital (since in order to work there as a nurse, she needs a local license), now she periodically works as a nanny ... In general, I opened my heart and began to shit on Canada, like people there are cold, everyone thinks about the dollar, no one needs us there and so on. IMHO the opinion that "Kazakhs squeezed out" is the opinion of people who do not quite objectively assess themselves and cannot understand in any way that society does not revolve around them.
    1. +3
      4 September 2014 15: 48
      I also think Aidar, basically 5 columns left, and the patriots remained, and live without complaining. I would not say that 100% of Kazakhs ride in oil, taking advantage of the fact that they are the titular nation. I lived in East Kazakhstan where the Russians lived in the majority, so many in 90 also rushed to Russia, but after a certain time, about 70% returned from swearing Russia. And my grandfather, although we ourselves lived modestly, helped many than we could. And they talk about some kind of chauvinism ... what
      1. 0
        4 September 2014 16: 49
        Rinat 1

        In the first six months of 2013, about 13 thousand people emigrated from Kazakhstan. And although every year the number of people going abroad for permanent residence decreases (2012 thousand people left the country for the first half of 18), the percentage of Russians and other European ethnic groups of the total number of migrants remains unchanged.

        According to the republican statistical agency, out of 13 thousand people who left Kazakhstan, the share of Russians was 71%, Ukrainians - 8%, Germans - 6,4%.

        According to the representative of the Association of Cross-Border Cooperation in Kazakhstan, Marat Shibutov, mainly specialists who have not found a worthy application of their skills leave the country, reports Total.kz.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. +4
        4 September 2014 18: 31
        first you need to follow the language when you speak
        5 columns left, but the patriots stayed and live without complaining
        even here on the site there are very many people-natives of the Kazakh SSR, including myself.
        and secondly this
        many 90 also rushed to Russia, but after a certain time, 70% returned
        what 70 percent returned? to whom do you hang it?
    2. 0
      4 September 2014 16: 27
      Quote: Aydar
      like people are cold there, everyone thinks about the dollar, nobody needs us there and so on.

      :)) but as they wanted, it’s developed capitalism, that’s all right! Not to say that this is bad:
      - they’re not cold, but they don’t get into their own business, otherwise it’s possible to get either on the cumpole or the police;
      - What does someone not think about the dollar?
      - No one needs strangers anywhere, what does Canada have to do with it?
      - but there is a + in this: no one is trying to get to you, I liked it :)
      In general, they, the capitalists, are not bad, they are simply OTHER than we who were born in the USSR. But what’s bad is that sooner or later, after how many generations, and we will have the same thing :(
  39. -1
    4 September 2014 16: 32
    Language is the foundation of a nation, therefore it must be studied and implemented in its own land. And let the unfortunate shoviks say what they want, God is their judge.
    1. +1
      4 September 2014 16: 47
      First of all, language is a WAY of COMMUNICATION, everything else is secondary and from the evil one, you can be proud and adore your language, this is music heard from childhood, but why should you use it to convey your thoughts and feelings to others ? After all, talk with the mirror agree, boring and pointless. You just need to respect each other, not get to the point of absurdity
    2. 0
      5 September 2014 16: 52
      Quote: Aldo
      Language is the foundation of a nation, therefore it must be studied and implemented in its own land.

      I was killed by the phrase in the article, you see, the Kyrgyz decided to do paperwork in Kyrgyz, and this was poorly received by the Russian minority))))))
  40. +2
    4 September 2014 16: 56
    By article. In general, I do not understand the attacks on Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan. Both republics, in general, at that time were not eager to secede from the USSR. Let's remember that they were officially the last in this process. As for Kazakhstan, the level of sovereignty and independence that it received in the late 80s was quite enough .. Not to mention the "Novoogorev agreements". Even when the Union collapsed, RK strove to remain in the "ruble zone". What was denied. I don't understand the logic of Moscow, since at that time Kazakhstan was more a Russian republic, in all respects, than a Kazakh one .. recourse
    As for those "horror stories" that are not told by Russian and German users, I will note that this is a direct consequence of the fact that the Great Russians destroyed the Soviet Union.
    Quote: Canep
    In Russia, nationality is generally not indicated in the documents. Unlike ours
    In RK, a couple of years ago, they also wanted not to indicate their nationality. There was a lot of noise, both from the Kazakh and Russian sides.
    Quote: adept666
    At one moment, the TITLE nation begins to appear with her
    No.
    Quote: Rebus
    And all the fabrications about the titular nation are nonsense ...
    Listen guys, I constantly hear from the Russian / Russian side about the so-called title nation request .
    Can someone provide a scan of the official document of the Republic of Kazakhstan, which refers to the TITLE nation ?!
    1. 0
      4 September 2014 17: 58
      It is good that you have not heard anything about any titular nation, which means that there is a purposeful work directed against the rapprochement of peoples. We must be wiser and more human than what they want to present to each other
    2. +3
      4 September 2014 20: 05
      Quote: Alibekulu
      Can someone provide a scan of the official document of the Republic of Kazakhstan, which refers to the TITLE nation ?!


      In general, a titular nation is a term that defines a nationality by the name of which a country is named. Those. Kazakhs in Kazakhstan, Russians in Russia, French in France. However, in the minds of our non-titled compatriots this expression takes on some ominous meaning. laughing
      1. -1
        4 September 2014 20: 30
        However, in Russia, Germany, France, etc. Russian, German, French countries are not called the titular nation, even at the household level. Therefore, this does not cause any misunderstanding. And here it is fashionable, ordinary people, politicians, and journalists talk about it. In fact, it may be correct that:
        it is a term that defines nationality by the name of which the country is named

        Those. as if it were nothing of the sort, but it emphasizes in every possible way at all levels that there is a titular nation (respectively, there are also not titular).
    3. -1
      4 September 2014 20: 22
      I bring: The Constitution of the Republic of Kazakhstan of January 28, 1993.
      First: the Republic of Kazakhstan (Kazakhstan) - a democratic, secular and unitary state.
      The Republic of Kazakhstan as a form of statehood self-determined KAZAKH NATION provides equal rights to all its citizens.


      Other nationalities of which there were even more than Kazakhs in the future of their homeland did not take any part and did not self-determine.
      1. +2
        4 September 2014 21: 14
        Quote: adept666
        The Constitution of the Republic of Kazakhstan dated January 28, 1993.
        First: the Republic of Kazakhstan (Kazakhstan) - a democratic, secular and unitary state.
        The Republic of Kazakhstan as a form of statehood of the self-determined KAZAKH NATION provides equal rights to all its citizens.
        How would I ask where, specifically, in the official documents of the Republic of Kazakhstan the term is indicated "titular nation", "titular"?!
        As for the KAZAKH NATION in the Constitution of the Republic of Kazakhstan, the French constitution is based on it. And the Western approach involves, as noted by Zymran, the definition of nationality by the name of which the country is named.
        For example, from Russian broadcasts, we hear: Frenchman Zineddin Zidane or German Mesut Ozil, for example .. request
        T.O. it was believed that all the citizens of Kazakhstan, like Russians, Belarusians, Kurds, Koreans and others, belong to the KAZAKH NATION .. That is based on the idea of ​​the so-called civil nation
        Her rudiments form before our eyes. For example: Gennady Golovkin at the XX session of the Assembly of the People of Kazakhstan, where he spoke in Kazakh and Russian, he said the following about his origin: “- When asked about nationality, I say: "My father is Russian, my mother is Korean, and" men kazakpin "(I am Kazakh)".
        But in general, with the definitions of a nation in K-no, there is an ambush everywhere .. laughing
        In 2004, the Assembly of the People of Kazakhstan put forward the doctrine of "National Unity" (the "Kazakhstan nation"), it was voiced by the President of Kazakhstan Nazarbayev, but it was criticized. Moreover, both from the Kazakh and Russian sides ..
        So the question is: "So what to do if in any case there are dissatisfied?"
        1. 0
          4 September 2014 22: 31
          Her rudiments form before our eyes. For example: Gennady Golovkin
          Yes, there are no beginnings. just as a Kazakh will call himself in Kazakhstan Kazakh by nationality and Russian by citizenship, for example, a Russian will call himself Russian, German, Korean, Korean, and, respectively, Kazakhstan.
          and Gena can call himself at least someone, this is his personal affair, but not a reason to follow. For example, he does business with Klitschko and their relations are at least friendly, but this is his business and there are no rudiments for anyone here either
        2. -1
          5 September 2014 05: 25
          T.O. it was believed that all the citizens of Kazakhstan, like Russians, Belarusians, Kurds, Koreans and others, belong to the KAZAKH NATION .. That is based on the idea of ​​the so-called civil nation

          Well, well))) If that were supposed to be, it would have been recorded like that, but recorded as it was recorded and removed at 95 ... so what? At 95, it was no longer supposed to be so? And about the titular nation, you have already been offered to google. Officially, this is not recorded anywhere, but is constantly being discussed. If there is no problem, then what is the president constantly talking about (and not only he is one of the politicians and public figures), I quote: you don’t have to separate people according to the linguistic principle, don’t call Kazakhs poorly fluent in the Kazakh language shala-Kazakhs ... and so .P.?
          In 2004, the Assembly of the People of Kazakhstan put forward the doctrine of "National Unity" (the "Kazakhstan nation"), it was voiced by the President of Kazakhstan Nazarbayev, but it was criticized. Moreover, both from the Kazakh and Russian sides ..

          Yes lan? This is written in the media, but I saw criticism and they clearly justified it only from the Kazakh side, as an option, see: http://www.neweurasia.info/index.php/events-and-opinions/1789-
          If you have the essence of complaints from the Russian side about this initiative of the president, please share a link, well, or at least general points that do not suit you.
          1. 0
            5 September 2014 15: 10
            Quote: Gleb
            Yes, there are no beginnings. just as a Kazakh will call himself in Kazakhstan Kazakh by nationality and Russian by citizenship, for example, a Russian will call himself Russian, German, Korean, Korean, and, respectively, Kazakhstan.
            Well, I also say, rudiments. Those. now only the beginning of the formation of a new community - the Kazakhs, "Kazakhs". Like Canadians in Canada, which we are constantly being blamed for, and like Americans in the United States.
            Mesut Ozil: I play for Germany because I feel like a German. But just as I am aware that Turkish blood flows in my veins, and I am also proud of my Turkish roots.
            http://vk.com/pages?
            Quote: adept666
            Well, well))) If that were supposed to be, it would have been recorded like that, but recorded as it was recorded and removed at 95 ... so what?
            Because the adherents began to have a tantrum .. wink
            What are the problems request if in '95 everything was removed ?! And people like you, "The Princess and the Pea", will always have complaints - Why is the water wet? The sun is bright ?! Is sugar sweet ?!
            Quote: adept666
            And as for the titular nation, officially it is not recorded anywhere, but is constantly being discussed.
            You yourself answered your own question. There are official documents of the country, and they determine the line of the state. Everything else is interpretation. And the wave about the "title" ones, as you can see on "VO", is not started by Kazakhs, but by our Russian and Russian "friends" ..
            Quote: adept666
            If you have the essence of complaints from the Russian side about this initiative of the president, please share a link, well, or at least general points that do not suit you.
            I will answer your quote:
            Quote: adept666
            You have already been offered to google.

            But in general, our state is taking cautious steps in the field of nation-building, through trial and error. And claims to it are similar to those if a seventh grader is asked questions at the university level .. And the Republic of Kazakhstan is just a country going through the stage of formation, with all the ensuing from this ..
            1. -1
              6 September 2014 10: 25
              [quote] Because adherents started to have a tantrum .. wink [/ quote]
              Adepts are dedicated people, they are guided by knowledge, not emotions, and therefore hysteria is not about them. This time. Second, instead of revealing in the new edition the term, what is the Kazakh nation (well, for example, the Kazakh nation is a civil nation consisting of peoples living in the territory of the Kazakh ASSR at the time of self-determination ... or the like), it was simply excluded from the editorial office, because if such a postscript was made, the hysteria would have been on the other hand and would have been many times greater, as this hysteria occurred recently on the initiative of the president. [quote] "Princess and the Pea", there will always be claims [/ quote] You are doing absolutely unfounded conclusions not based on anything, you do not know me at all to give me such definitions, all my claims are always constructive or prove the opposite. [quote] You yourself answered your own question. There are official documents of the country, and they determine the line of the state. [/ Quote]
              No, I didn’t answer. For the official line of the country is a very volatile thing and it as a whole significantly depends on the official line of the mood of the masses. Nazarbayev will leave and the country's line can change dramatically. Moreover, dangerous trends in this direction already have a place to be, for example this:
              [quote] Article 5. Use of the Russian language. [/ Quote]
              Not so long ago they wanted to exclude.
              [quote] I will answer your own quote: [/ quote]
              Believe me, before writing anything, I always check the sources. Google and did not find a single specific article on either one or the other side (I brought you this one with specific claims), so statements from both the Russian and Kazakh sides are very unfounded. And in order not to be like you unfounded about serious discussions about the titular nation, I worked for you:
              1) We read at the end after the line According to NAM ”: [quote] http://www.zonakz.net/articles/5379 [/ quote]
              2) [quote] http://sputnikipogrom.com/empire/kazakhstan/17541/kazakh-nation/ [/ quote

              ] 3) [quote] http://www.zonakz.net/articles/7484 [/ quote] 4) [quote] http: //news.headli

              ne.kz/society/v_kazahstane_jivet_11_millionov_predstaviteley_titulnoy_natsii.htm

              l [/ quote] 5) [quote] http://newtimes.kz/obshchestvo/item/1265-privilegij-u-titulnoj-natsii-v-kazakhst

              ane-byt-ne-dolzhno-schitaet-eks-chinovnik-tolibaev [/ quote] 6) But we hear this term from the lips of the president himself: [quote] http://kapital.kz/gosudarstvo/22273/nazarbaev-vstupi
              lsya-za-te
              h-kto-ne-znaet-gosyazyka.html [/ quote] PS A big request, if you have specifics on claims from the Russian side to the president’s initiative (just curious? What might not suit there), please share the source or at least the essence.
              [quote] But in general, our state takes careful steps in the field of nation-building, through trial and error. And claims to it are similar if a seventh grader is asked questions at the university level .. [/ quote]
              And ... well, in this case, any stupidities and misunderstandings can also be attributed, and this is a matter of no responsibility. In general, after separation at the helm, people began to steer the Kazakh Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic and had extensive experience in this (or rather should have), so the claims to these competent people are quite justified, more than 20 years of experience only as if independent ...
  41. 0
    4 September 2014 17: 01
    Take almost any article in the official press. Yes, even an official document in the subject.
  42. +1
    4 September 2014 17: 47
    yeah it’s fun to read the comments of people who lived here if they lived very, very long time ago

    Kyrgyz themselves, especially urban ones, do not know their language. while the Russians did not teach him (for the most part they do not teach him, he simply is not needed). curious note: now more Kyrgyz people go with Russian citizenship than Russians. Yes, the very outflow began after March 24 (the first revolution), then really a lot of friends began to leave, sell apartments and business. in principle, and now this trend has persisted those who have relatives in the Russian Federation, people go to them to register and obtain citizenship, and what queues are in the Russian Embassy is simple, you need to register in a week or even a month, but the benefit can be corresponded via the Internet about documents and so on (about the lines I say for sure because the embassy is practically in my yard).
    but in general about the language, etc. do not oppress in any way, the only one in the state. authorities work for them a little harder, but there are few Russians, in power structures almost all are "local", and of course this stupid mentality when someone took a chair and pulls the whole village to work.
    in general, a couple of sentences such a picture. if you suddenly have questions. write. I live here all my life. and certainly I can tell you everything as it is ....
  43. +1
    4 September 2014 19: 14
    For some reason, in the former republics of the USSR they do not like Russians, they survive, and they go to Russia to earn money. I’m certainly not a nationalist, but I’m not going to turn the other cheek either. There is nothing for them to do on our territory, let them restore their countries, especially since there are no specialists among them. Of course, it is more profitable for an employer to take a Kyrgyz, Uzbek or Tajik consonant to work for a penny, but that’s the essence of the matter is dumping. Therefore, I am against all these migrant workers and their rabble asking for alms (especially in Orthodox churches and cemeteries).
  44. +1
    4 September 2014 20: 39
    He lived in Kyrgyzstan, some classmates are still there.
    Such a saying goes there, in a minibus .. the owners speak Russian and you take the brooms as janitors. What drove it, the Kyrgyz says the Russians will leave and you will forget such words. By the way, many thoughtful and respected Kyrgyz people are doing everything possible so that the Russians do not leave when I write Russian, I mean Russian speakers. And a lot of Kyrgyz specialists, in the same oil industry, have accepted the citizenship of the Russian Federation and work in Siberia, and only visit their grandmother home.
  45. Aydar
    -1
    4 September 2014 21: 00
    Quote: Canep
    Quote: adept666
    Russian is simply not in the country's constitution.

    In Russia, nationality is generally not indicated in the documents.
    Unlike ours:
    By the way, in the last picture, the certificate is filled out purely in Russian, the nationality is written - "KAZASHKA" and not "KAZAKSHA" (so it seems correct to write the nationality of the Kazakh, who in the course should correct it)

    You are a sick provocateur; in Kazakhstan, nationality is indicated in an identity document at the request of its owner. If a woman indicated that she was a Kazakh, then she was proud of it and wants to be considered a Kazakh and not a Russian, or there, for example, a mordovinka.
  46. Aydar
    0
    4 September 2014 21: 40
    Gentlemen, Russians, before claiming that the Russians have civilized the Kyrgyz and Kazakhs, study this issue carefully. I explain why you need this, there is, for example, the wonderful ethnographer Kaufman "Travel from St. Petersburg to Siberia", it seems his work is called. So the resettlement of Russians in Semirechye was largely due to the consequences of the abolition of serfdom, when, in order to "unload" the Russian cities from the former serfs who remained unchallenged and without a master, who began to trade in prostitution, robbery, banditry, a "wise" decision was made on the direction of the "surplus" population to Turkestan. So the settlers really introduced the local aborigines to all the benefits of civilization - including alcoholism, horse stealing, prostitution, and other things that, in principle, the locals did not have in the general masses.
    1. +1
      4 September 2014 21: 47
      What kind of nonsense? Where did you dig this nonsense?
      1. Aydar
        +2
        4 September 2014 22: 02
        These "nonsense" and "nonsense" are stated in the beautiful pre-revolutionary Russian language by A.A. Kaufman, for example, in the essay "To New Places". In general, it is strange that I, not being a Russian, read such literature, but you do not, and for you it is "nonsense", although the events described were quite common in those days.
        1. 0
          4 September 2014 22: 10
          Link please.
    2. -3
      5 September 2014 09: 49
      Otminusala, once again I remind you that the semblance of the USSR and killed you, prove that kumis does not hop ?? Your knowledge of your own history is depressing. Do you want to repeat the fate of Ukraine? With such reasoning, the Americans "with all their heart" will give you freedom from everything, including from the oppressor Russia! I have always respected both Kazakhs and Kyrgyz, I have never come across evil among them, but your reasoning and outlook is at least alarming
  47. Aydar
    +2
    4 September 2014 22: 24
    Quote: Egor65G
    Link please.

    So I already called the author to you, so if you please dig yourself and read. What kind of link do you need if I read these works in a paper publication with pre-revolutionary language in the library when I wrote my diploma?
  48. Aydar
    0
    4 September 2014 22: 30
    Quote: Egor65G
    Link please.


    I can also add that A.A. Kaufman himself recognized and understood the problem of seizure of lands from Kyrgyz-Kaisaks by Russian settlers and robbery of Krygyz-Kaysaks by Russian settlers. But he explained this by the fact that under the tsar a quota was established for the resettlement of Russians in Siberia - those who came under the quota were provided with a land allotment (purchased from the Kyrgyz), a hut and a horse. Those who moved bypassing the quota - namely the former serfs from Ryazan, Tula, Orel, Samara and other cities, who turned into associal elements - took cattle from the Kyrgyz, soldered them, occupied lands, spoiled the girls - in general, they were engaged in their usual craft. Kaufman also gives statistics on relocations by year - how many quotas were issued and how many actually relocated by year. So whether you like it or not, the authors of the hoary antiquity are also Russians and not Chukchi or Kyrgyz - they themselves admit that "colonization" was not as noble and correct as people like you usually think.
  49. 0
    4 September 2014 22: 33
    Clear. If you affirm something, then take the trouble to prove it, but no, you’re just an ordinary fucker. Kaufman's articles are simply not interesting to me. Or do you think that I will rush to study his articles on economic and statistical topics? Take a look around and think, for example, about how the Kyrgyz of Afghanistan live.
  50. +1
    4 September 2014 22: 34
    I am not a nationalist, so educated. But when I see Asian citizens in the vastness of Russia, it doesn’t cause me delight, it’s rather a jerk.
    Perhaps this is due to the fact that I was born in Frunze-Bishkek, in 1993 after graduating from KSTU, I had to take my family and go to Russia, into the unknown. Being a "second" class person is not very pleasant, racial discrimination just got sick. We survived and are living well, our heads and hands are in place, served 20 years and I receive a pension. The son served in the army. I believe that I made my own, albeit small, contribution to the development of my new homeland. Russia won, but Kyrgyzstan - I doubt it.
    What "talent" must be possessed to rename the capital so "successfully". Bishkek is consonant with the historical name Pishpek. And "Bishkek" among the Kirghiz is a stirrer for whipping kumis - a drink made from mare's milk. Here is such a stirring stick! And what a batch came out ... fool
    Now I see that the situation is repeating itself. The Ukrainians, born in Kiev and Lvov, became overnight the titular nation, with all the ensuing benefits. And those born in Donetsk and Lugansk are destined to run errands and carry their tails. Simply put, again, people of the "second" class. But it didn't work out !!! angry Hooray Novorosii !!!
  51. Aydar
    +3
    4 September 2014 22: 46
    Quote: Egor65G
    Clear. If you affirm something, then take the trouble to prove it, but no, you’re just an ordinary fucker. Kaufman's articles are simply not interesting to me. Or do you think that I will rush to study his articles on economic and statistical topics? Take a look around and think, for example, about how the Kyrgyz of Afghanistan live.

    Cunt.a.b.o.l you are, and also uneducated. I am not interested in how the Kyrgyz people live in Afghanistan; in this case, I follow the principle of Prof. Preobrazhensky - who sympathizes but does not want to buy magazines. Whether or not you will study Kaufman is again your personal business, I did not undertake to educate you, I brought you a specific author with a last name and his works that he wrote two or three hundred years ago. Whether you read them or not, I'm going to poop - this is part of your story.
  52. Aydar
    +1
    5 September 2014 07: 18
    Quote: Was Mammoth
    Quote: DARDANEC
    definitely not a Kyrgyz. feel

    And kind of tearful sad

    This is because the Kyrgyz are “oppressing” her, they forcibly dressed her up in an incomprehensible way.
  53. Aydar
    +2
    5 September 2014 08: 09
    Since all the land in the T. region, being state property, is in the possession of the Kyrgyz, the basis for land use by the inhabitants of villages and farmsteads could be exclusively rent. In some villages, vast areas of arable land were leased on behalf of the society, in others the society leased only plots for homesteads and pastures, and in a number of cases, lease transactions were concluded or renewed with more or less vigorous influence on the Kyrgyz by the local administration. The most common type of leases, however, were leases by individual peasants of the land they needed from individual Kyrgyz. Due to the inconsistency of the articles of law relating to the lease of Kyrgyz lands (see XXIII, 277), the leased land use of both farmers and village residents seemed extremely precarious, which was also reflected in their economic life; having no confidence in the future, and on the other hand - counting on still vast reserves of virgin lands, the settlers farmed in the most predatory ways, which quickly depleted the land; this had the consequence of an exacerbation of crop failures caused by climatic conditions (drought), each of which led to new changes in the distribution of the population. The inconveniences of such an unstable situation forced the regional administration to petition for a more durable land structure for the settlers by allocating them land plots. Ministry of Agriculture and Committee of the Siberian Railway. dor. looked at the question much more broadly: since the northern region of the T. region was considered very valuable in terms of colonization, and the indiscriminate settlement of unauthorized migrants in the region in the form of tenants was considered extremely dangerous for the Kyrgyz themselves, it was decided to base colonization in the T. region on such the same grounds on which it was placed in the Steppe General Government (see XXIII, 274): Kustanai and Aktobe uu. were studied statistically. expedition of F.A. Shcherbin, which finally clarified both their complete suitability for Russian colonization and the presence of significant areas of land among the Kyrgyz, which exceeded their actual land needs and therefore could be converted for settlement by Russian peasants. Based on the data of this expedition, in 1899, plots were allocated to 11 Kustanai villages, and in 1900 in the north. parts of Kustanay district resettlement areas with a total area of ​​up to half a million des.
    1. 0
      5 September 2014 10: 19
      Aidar, above you stated that Russian settlers taught the Kyrgyz to drink alcohol, engage in prostitution, etc. And you learned this from the works of Kaufman. I will repeat my request for a link. smile
  54. 0
    5 September 2014 08: 32
    Vatniks don’t want to rummage through the archives; they have a friend-or-foe system installed! Strangers are always to blame, strangers are always obliged, strangers are good for nothing.
    1. 0
      5 September 2014 09: 56
      Young, green, stupid! Also quote Beplan, it’s even more interesting and even more ancient. Hmmm, sadness. The rake is guaranteed to you
  55. Aydar
    +1
    5 September 2014 10: 07
    Quote: Styx
    Young, green, stupid! Also quote Beplan, it’s even more interesting and even more ancient. Hmmm, sadness. The rake is guaranteed to you

    Everyone has their own literary preferences - it's a matter of taste. You don’t like what I read, so what? Should I not read this now for your sake? This way you will soon end up with the public burning of objectionable literature. It’s better to condemn the same Kaufman - they say he’s a son of a bitch, he didn’t notice, now they say it’s inconvenient for descendants to justify themselves for what this old stump scribbled.
    1. 0
      5 September 2014 11: 10
      I don’t care what who likes to read, I love kolobok, and based on your preferences, I recommend Beplan over an authority on history and an expert on Russia. But I still recommend analyzing information and drawing from different sources. I have always liked the worldview and philosophy of Mongoloid Asians (not in a bad way, I just don’t know how to separate Uzbeks and Tajiks from the same ones, and this is not flattery, I have had this belief since childhood), they are completely different, and paradoxically, closer and clearer to us. You are becoming like Western psychology, and this is very noticeable. If you are familiar with history well, then it is not for me to explain to you all the rottenness of their worldview. History bears witness to this
  56. Aydar
    +2
    5 September 2014 10: 45
    Quote: Egor65G
    Aidar, above you stated that Russian settlers taught the Kyrgyz to drink alcohol, engage in prostitution, etc. And you learned this from the works of Kaufman. I will repeat my request for a link. smile

    You either don’t know how to read, or you have problems with logic. I wrote that the Kyrgyz were taught to drink alcohol and so on. But I also came to these conclusions after reading the works of Kulomzin and Kaufman on the illegal migration of Russian immigrants to SA. In addition, I already gave you a link to a work where specifically Kaufman writes about banditry and robbery among Russian settlers - although these events concerned the Far East and relations with the local aborigines. Why are you so lazy right? find this book yourself and read it, why do I have to chew everything for you and put it in your mouth?
    1. 0
      5 September 2014 11: 11
      Does Kumis contain no alcohol at all?
    2. 0
      5 September 2014 11: 33
      I don’t quite understand your approach to the discussion and your swagger.
      Quote: Aydar
      you either don't know how to read

      Quote: Aydar
      why do I have to chew everything for you and put it in your mouth?


      You are funny, earth. Why should I read an author who is alien and uninteresting to me? And to my proof that you are wrong
      Quote: Aydar
      So the settlers really introduced the local aborigines to all the benefits of civilization - including alcoholism, horse stealing, prostitution and other things that, in principle, were generally absent among the locals.

      I advised you to take a closer look at the life of the Kyrgyz people of Afghanistan. Without the immigrants you so dislike, would you live? boyfriend Now on the same level with them.
      1. +1
        6 September 2014 09: 50
        An attempt to compare the mentality of the nomad of the Great Steppe with the morals and customs of ultra-religious Afghanistan, frankly speaking, is simply ridiculous. The ethnocultural and social differences between these two communities are so colossal that with a high degree of probability it can be assumed that a “civilized” European still has a significantly higher chance of turning into some kind of semi-wild Pashtun than the same Kazakh nomad. Just look at the history of individual citizens from among the former military personnel of the Soviet contingent, who, for various reasons, joined and became part of Afghan society. It was precisely representatives of European nationalities who managed to rapidly undergo the process of assimilation into the tribal society of this state.
  57. +2
    5 September 2014 12: 39
    Well, not exactly on the topic of alcohol and prostitution, but.

    http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/Dokumenty/M.Asien/XX/1900-1920/Gins/text2.htm
    Russian peasants are significantly superior to the Kyrgyz in culture and often treat the latter with contempt. This contempt sometimes comes to a complete denial of the human personality in the Kyrgyz people. There are cases of inhuman and senseless cruelty on this basis: peasants ruthlessly kill the Kirghiz and do not feel remorse. Most often, this happens. Russian peasants will lease Kyrgyz lands, build houses and refuse to leave at the end of the lease term. Kyrgyz come. The landfill begins, and the case ends in bloodshed, and either without guns at all, or the Kirghiz armed with ancient samopalans are in such cases a weaker side.

    It could be worse. Is the man working? in the garden, he sees that through the fence the Kyrgyz reaches for the apple tree, takes a gun and kills the Kyrgyz on the spot. The neighbors come running. - to What is it? ”-“ But, he killed the dog! ”- and he won’t even budge to pick up the killed one.

    With such a killer I had to meet one day. I stopped for the night in the village of Golovachevka (Aulieatinsky district of the Syr-Darya region). There was a representative man in the hut. He interestingly talked about his classes, about how difficult it was for him to sell carts and get everything he needed, in the absence of a railway. He spoke, and suddenly said: “Now everything has changed.” [332]

    - Почему?

    - Yes, I'm a killer ... I killed the Kyrgyz.

    Russian men, being infected by the spirit of the conquerors, often lose their original good nature here, and with it that simple-minded childish smile that L. N. Tolstoy so loved in them, who did not find this smile among the urban proletariat. They become infected with a thirst for profit, so widespread on the outskirts with a semi-wild population, get used to exploitation, and wean from hospitality - they are often made unrecognizable. But on the other hand, consciousness, meaningfulness, understanding of one’s rights, literacy, all this develops no less quickly. Relocation to new lands shakes and turns their entire being.
    1. 0
      5 September 2014 21: 33
      and this, citizen, is a catch-up for you about the author to whom you so generously refer wink Comment on their WIKIPEDIA. So, tadaaaam-sss:


      Life in the USA

      In the summer of 1941 he went to his sons in San Francisco, where he edited the newspaper “Russian Life”. In 1944-1945 he worked in Washington as an employee of the United Nations Information Agency (UNNRA). In 1945-1954 he taught Russian history and Soviet law at the University of California at Berkeley (1945-1954). In 1955-1964 worked in the Russian editorial office of the Voice of America radio station. Published in the journal NTS "Posev" (Frankfurt am Main, Germany), the magazines "Thought" and "Our Days". He was a member of the board of the Kulaevsky Foundation, which provided support to Russian student youth and emigrant organizations (with the founder of the foundation, entrepreneur I.V. Kulaev, G.K. Gins worked together in 1920-1926 in the Harbin Public Assembly and the Homeowners Society).

      In 1966, his extensive oral memoirs were tape-recorded by American historian Boris Raymond


      so you still want Maidan?? then he comes to youwink wassat and also, in the light of your comments, I would strongly recommend that you return to my comment at the beginning and re-read it, and once again I ask you to think about the rake. Well, don’t spoil my most pleasant childhood memories of my friend from Kyrgyzstan Liliya, the most wonderful girl, I still remember her and feel sad, not knowing about her fate, it just so happened:(((
      1. +1
        6 September 2014 12: 22
        Quote: Styx
        and this, citizen, is a catch-up for you about the author to whom you so generously refer. wink Comment on their WIKIPEDIA. So, tadaaaam-sss:

        In the summer of 1941 he went to his sons in San Francisco, where he edited the newspaper “Russian Life”. In 1944-1945 he worked in Washington as an employee of the United Nations Information Agency (UNNRA). In 1945-1954 he taught Russian history and Soviet law at the University of California at Berkeley (1945-1954). From 1955 to 1964 he worked in the Russian editorial office of the Voice of America radio station. Published in the journal NTS "Posev" (Frankfurt am Main, Germany), the magazines "Thought" and "Our Days". He was a member of the board of the Kulaevsky Foundation, which provided support to Russian student youth and emigrant organizations (with the founder of the foundation, entrepreneur I.V. Kulaev, G.K. Gins worked together in 1920-1926 in the Harbin Public Assembly and the Homeowners Society).


        tadaam sir

        http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/Dokumenty/M.Asien/XX/1900-1920/Gins/text2.htm

        The text is reproduced from the publication: In the Kyrgyz villages // Historical Bulletin, No. 10. 1913
        1. 0
          6 September 2014 12: 50
          Have you read further my recommendations, turn to my earlier comments, doesn’t 1905 tell you anything? Your instructions on the date are exactly what I colorfully wrote about earlier, learn to analyze literature on a larger scale. Find the Galitsins, Yusupovs (!) and others like them, spotted in these same stations, these are people who often died in poverty, but never agreed to discredit the country they built. But Stolypin spoke about such a rocking of Russia in the early 1900s, so that’s it! And in general, it’s not for me, a girl, to lecture men. Learn to analyze information, different information and from different sources, and before trusting, check the source for lice. I'm tired of the hopeless fooling of people. And they are underway!
          And one more thing: nothing is new under the sun, including methods of fooling
          1. 0
            6 September 2014 13: 46
            Quote: Styx
            Your instructions on the date are exactly what I colorfully wrote about earlier, learn to analyze literature on a larger scale.


            I am very familiar with Russian pre-revolutionary sources; they paint approximately the same picture. You, girl, need to get less involved in conspiracy theories.
            1. 0
              6 September 2014 15: 05
              And what does conspiracy theory have to do with it? These are just facts, life and its course, the question is: where does such a rich knowledge of pre-revolutionary obviously non-authoritative sources of little-known authors with a dubious reputation come from? Why are there no references to Stolypin? Don’t be like the UK, they also have extremely reliable information about digging the Black Sea, they went so far as to make the man who commanded the fanatics a hero. And this is no longer the beginning of the 20th century, this was my grandfather, who miraculously survived in 5 concentration camps and hid in basements at night from fascist ukronedobitki. For that matter, there are plenty of idiots everywhere, but they are in the minority and are not the face of the people. You can continue in the same spirit, the path of self-destruction is very creative in the world today. It’s not enough for me to instruct you with my crazy uk.rov. Live with your strange insults and God will be your judge, the Amers will help you, they have already benefited half the world, get in line with them, otherwise who will get ahead of the thread. Are the Kirghiz Kazakhs? Just ask why they got a couple of revolutionary flower beds.
              Well, that's why I like rake jumping so much. And for general development, so that your Russophobic anger is more justified and reasoned: who are the Cossacks in essence? Who exactly from Russia went to settle in Kyrgyzstan?
              1. 0
                6 September 2014 15: 27
                Quote: Styx

                And what does conspiracy theory have to do with it? These are just facts, life and its course, the question is: where does such a rich knowledge of pre-revolutionary obviously non-authoritative sources of little-known authors with a dubious reputation come from?


                Again. This data is available in many Russian sources. And these are the facts, life and its course. This was not disputed even by early Soviet historians. For example, you can read Furmanov’s “Mutiny” or Galuzo’s “Turkestan Colony”.


                Quote: Styx
                You can continue in the same spirit, the path of self-destruction is very creative in the world today. It’s not enough for me to instruct you with my crazy uk.rov. Live with your strange insults and God will be your judge, the Amers will help you, they have already benefited half the world, get in line with them, otherwise who will get ahead of the thread.


                The crazy ones are those who see everywhere the machinations of the Americans, the State Department, etc.

                Quote: Styx
                Are the Kirghiz Kazakhs?


                No, the Kyrgyz are not Kazakhs.

                Quote: Styx
                Well, that's why I like rake jumping so much. And for general development, so that your Russophobic anger is more justified and reasoned: who are the Cossacks in essence? Who exactly from Russia went to settle in Kyrgyzstan?


                Firstly, this is not Russophobic anger, but historical facts that need to be known and remembered. Secondly, it was mostly rabble that was traveling. This is where the attitude towards the indigenous population comes from. By the way, there were a lot of people from Little Russia, but mostly from the Tambov, Samara and Penza provinces.
                1. 0
                  6 September 2014 17: 25
                  Quote: Zymran
                  Again. This data is available in many Russian sources. And these are the facts, life and its course. This was not disputed even by early Soviet historians. For example, you can read Furmanov’s “Mutiny” or Galuzo’s “Turkestan Colony”.

                  If your sources had more reliable primary sources with yats, and not dubious Tyrnetov mailings, then you could talk about something.
                  Knowing the primary sources and working with them allows us to assert that criminal punishment was actually applied for such things, and not an article in a newspaper!

                  Quote: Zymran
                  The crazy ones are those who see everywhere the machinations of the Americans, the State Department, etc.


                  You can request certificates of state of mind from Syrians, Libyans, Panamanians, Yugoslavs, Colombians, Iraqis... Continue or do it yourself? And by the way, Peter1 saw these machinations of the Podlo-Saxons (again, if you believe the archival materials in the library, and not Tyrnet links of strange origin) And why did knowledge of history make it possible to verify this more than once?


                  Quote: Zymran
                  No, the Kyrgyz are not Kazakhs.


                  Now it’s time for us to say goodbye, I’m no longer interested in ukrokazakh. Kyrgyz Kaisak - what is that? (I may be inaccurate, I’m not an expert, and it’s possible that a Kyrgyz is a Kazakh, but the essence is the same) With such a claim to knowledge of history, it’s no longer funny!

                  Quote: Zymran
                  Secondly, it was mostly rabble that was traveling. This is where the attitude towards the indigenous population comes from. By the way, there were a lot of people from Little Russia, but mostly from the Tambov, Samara and Penza provinces.

                  There was no mass resettlement of Russians to Kyrgyzstan, but this is true about the rabble, the Cossacks were essentially semi-bandits, and the fact that my grandmother advised against my grandfather with a pitchfork, so as not to bully the Kyrgyz, certainly has nothing to do with it. For me, it’s a reason to raise children without such quirks, and not to be angry with the Chuvash, from whom my grandfather was from
                  1. Aydar
                    +1
                    6 September 2014 20: 54
                    There is an excellent Russian proverb, which most Russians actually quote down to the comma - whoever remembers the old will lose sight of it, and whoever will forget both.
                    1. 0
                      6 September 2014 22: 54
                      But this is correct, and I am for learning from history not to do this selectively, and to move on, and yes, about the proverbs, the second part is mentioned in too advanced cases during relapses, this would have been clearer
                  2. The comment was deleted.
        2. +1
          6 September 2014 15: 52
          Zymran, thank you for the educational material!
          1. +1
            6 September 2014 16: 12
            My pleasure. You need to know the past so as not to repeat its mistakes. It sounds corny, but it's true.
  58. Aydar
    0
    5 September 2014 15: 23
    Quote: Zymran
    Well, not exactly on the topic of alcohol and prostitution, but.

    http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/Dokumenty/M.Asien/XX/1900-1920/Gins/text2.htm
    Russian peasants are significantly superior to the Kyrgyz in culture and often treat the latter with contempt. This contempt sometimes comes to a complete denial of the human personality in the Kyrgyz people. There are cases of inhuman and senseless cruelty on this basis: peasants ruthlessly kill the Kirghiz and do not feel remorse. Most often, this happens. Russian peasants will lease Kyrgyz lands, build houses and refuse to leave at the end of the lease term. Kyrgyz come. The landfill begins, and the case ends in bloodshed, and either without guns at all, or the Kirghiz armed with ancient samopalans are in such cases a weaker side.

    It could be worse. Is the man working? in the garden, he sees that through the fence the Kyrgyz reaches for the apple tree, takes a gun and kills the Kyrgyz on the spot. The neighbors come running. - to What is it? ”-“ But, he killed the dog! ”- and he won’t even budge to pick up the killed one.

    With such a killer I had to meet one day. I stopped for the night in the village of Golovachevka (Aulieatinsky district of the Syr-Darya region). There was a representative man in the hut. He interestingly talked about his classes, about how difficult it was for him to sell carts and get everything he needed, in the absence of a railway. He spoke, and suddenly said: “Now everything has changed.” [332]

    - Почему?

    - Yes, I'm a killer ... I killed the Kyrgyz.

    Russian men, being infected by the spirit of the conquerors, often lose their original good nature here, and with it that simple-minded childish smile that L. N. Tolstoy so loved in them, who did not find this smile among the urban proletariat. They become infected with a thirst for profit, so widespread on the outskirts with a semi-wild population, get used to exploitation, and wean from hospitality - they are often made unrecognizable. But on the other hand, consciousness, meaningfulness, understanding of one’s rights, literacy, all this develops no less quickly. Relocation to new lands shakes and turns their entire being.

    This is exactly the same case, or else Kulomzin described a case when hungry Kirghiz came to a rich settler to ask for bread, since they were dying of hunger as a result of the fact that the settlers plowed their lands on which the village was grazing cattle. The Kyrgyz were forced to slaughter their cattle because they began to starve. Then hunger began among them too. So, when they came to the settler, they asked for bread behind the fence, several families, and for the sake of laughter, he smeared the cobblestones with wheel grease and threw them to the starving people, laughing happily at his idea. It is foolish to deny that this did not happen when such cases are described by Russian ethnographers and historians themselves.
  59. Aydar
    0
    6 September 2014 20: 52
    Quote: Zymran
    My pleasure. You need to know the past so as not to repeat its mistakes. It sounds corny, but it's true.

    If a person doesn’t see the difference between the Kazakhs and the Kyrgyz, as she already wrote this “Kyrgyz-Kaysaki”, I don’t think you should grovel in front of her, you have your own grateful audience, and leave her alone and don’t get into discussions - she knows better . In any case, for her, black will be white, since her personal national factor is involved here.
  60. Aydar
    +1
    6 September 2014 20: 59
    I also admire the primitive approach, in particular to the fact that Russians who publish in the USA are necessarily biased and suffer from “Solzhenitsynism,” why not also question the objectivity of Russian historians, who wrote all their lives at the request of the party and “so as not to raise national questions” and also the current ones, who also write jingoistic opuses about handsome, kind and intelligent settlers who taught the “Asians” to use the toilet, although I apologize they themselves saw the pipifax and the toilet only after the war.
    1. 0
      6 September 2014 22: 59
      Sorry, but don’t confuse Soviet and Russian writers, okay? Otherwise, your situation with this is even worse than mine with the Kazakhs. But still, how to translate Kyrgyz kaisaki? Do you see the difference between Ukrainians and Great Russians? And between Croats and Serbs?
      Now your pipifax in Russian villages was a latrine corner in the most mossy village, and in Germany every suitable tree was what my grandfather witnessed. So no need to lala, have you mastered a fork and spoon long ago? Have you moved to the tables off the floors long ago? In short, your veiled rudeness and unfounded arrogance do you no credit, comrade. p/p-k. We have a proverb in Russia: Don’t make a pan out of Ivan, he’ll be a boor.

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