Military Review

Russia and China: on the issue of partnership in the military sphere

17
With the beginning of the 2014 Peace Mission, the talks about the vague prospects of Russian-Chinese military-technical cooperation resumed. Experts recalled that Russia could supply China with C-400 systems, as well as some Su-35 aircraft. But here it would be desirable, and it is pricked: Moscow would like to trade with the Celestial Empire, but it is afraid that the Chinese will copy the technique.

Russia and China: on the issue of partnership in the military sphere


The said exercises involved contingents of the armed forces of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) member states. As transmits ITAR-TASS, on Tuesday this week, there was a “dress rehearsal” for a joint anti-terrorist operation with live firing. It took place at the Zhuzhihe proving ground (Inner Mongolia, an autonomous region in the PRC). According to the press service and information department of the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation, the training operation has completed the combat coordination of the multinational military contingents of the armed forces of the SCO member states participating in the military mission "Peace Mission 2014".

ITAR-TASS specifies that the troops played out four tactical episodes: 1) reconnaissance and observation of the battlefield; 2) joint defeat of the important goals of the enemy; 3) anti-terrorist actions in the locality; 4) pursuit of the enemy in mountainous areas.

As for Russian participation, our country was represented by a motorized rifle battalion at tanks T-72 and BMP-2 with the support of the army aviation (Su-25 and Mi-8AMTSh), as well as artillery (BM-21 Grad and self-propelled artillery systems 2S3 Akatsiya).

Newspaper "A red star" It especially notes that unique conditions have been created at the Zhuzhihe proving ground for practicing combat skills in the city. On a large area built a town with several blocks with multidisciplinary buildings. There is a bank, a cinema, a post office, a supermarket, administrative buildings, different houses, then models of the Christian church, a Muslim mosque, and even a two-level car interchange. In addition, each action of the assault groups is painted in minutes and seconds.

Such large-scale exercises really confirm Russian-Chinese cooperation in the military sphere.

However, military technical cooperation is much more important. And here not everything goes smoothly.

Since early spring, “verified” rumors have been circulating about the upcoming Moscow-Beijing deal to sell the S-400 air defense system. In March, citing one source, Kommersant, the Russian press wrote that Vladimir Putin given agreement in principle on the sale of C-400 anti-aircraft missile systems to China.

As for the talks with Beijing on this topic, which have already turned three and a half years old, they apparently have been going on to this day. It is, as always, about the price, but the main thing is about the quantity. In the spring, the delivery of the Celestial Empire from two to four C-400 battalions (each of which includes 8 launchers) was discussed.

The stumbling block is that Chinese customers want to get complete information about the tactical and technical characteristics of the complex. Lenta.ru rightly notes that the negotiations may take a long time because China systematically copies Russian weapons and military equipment.

In July, 2014, a new information about the C-400 for China.

While on a working visit to China, the head of the presidential administration, Sergei Ivanov, said that China can be the first state to receive from Russia C-400.

According to him, relations between the two countries are actively developing, including in the field of military-technical cooperation. Earlier, Ivanov, at a meeting with Vice-President of the People's Republic of China, Li Yuanchao, noted that relations between Russia and China are characterized by special trust.

Since then, nothing has been heard about the "progress" with C-400 for the PRC.

In the same June, information about the Su-35 for the PRC was passed in the press.

June 17 in the Moscow Kubinka took place display of this fighter, organized specifically for the military delegation from China.

“This show was organized as part of the preparation of a contract for the delivery of a party of Su-35 fighters to China. Chinese military experts familiarized themselves in detail with the combat and flight-technical characteristics of the aircraft, looked at the aircraft in the air and held consultations on the features of fighter operation, ”an informed source told Interfax. “The conversation was substantive, the Chinese specialists were interested in literally everything,” he added.

On the eve of this demonstration, a meeting was held between the head of the delegation, Zhang Yusya, and Russian Deputy Minister of Defense Yury Borisov, at which the question of preparing a contract for the supply of Su-35 to the PRC was discussed.

There is also information that China will purchase no more than 24 aircraft, and even those that Russia will manufacture to order, adapting the machine to the requirements of the Chinese Air Force. Price 24 aircraft - 1,5 billion.

Earlier, the media wrote about the desire of Moscow to supply China with at least 60 Su-35 airplanes. Then the contract "bar" was reduced to 48 - with the proviso that this is the minimum amount. As you can see, by the summer of 2014, the Chinese had managed to “halve” the “minimum amount”. There are also suggestions that the PRC will not buy more than twelve aircraft.

Konstantin Bogdanov ("Lenta.ru") writes:

"In the exciting process of pirated copying weapons and lay the essence of disagreement on the supply of Su-35. The order of 10-12 machines, as Beijing wanted until recently, essentially meant the purchase of several test samples and an “on-demand” test. The Su-35 had something to look at: there was a new avionics, and in particular, the AL-41F1С engine, a slightly disarmed version of the engine - the “117 product” installed not just anywhere, but immediately on the fifth-generation Russian fighter T- 50.


Thomas Newdick in The Week today argues On the same topic, about Su-35:

"Now, however, deliveries abroad risk completely stopping."


I mean, of course, Russian supplies. Why can they stop? The author believes that both India and China are building up military forces through their own production. With the difference that production is licensed in India, but not in China.

Precisely because, the author writes, Moscow and increased the internal order for three different "Su". She wants to support the manufacturers: Irkut and KnAAPO, and therefore “buys only a few dozen Su-30М2, Su-30СМ and Su-35С." “These are different modernized versions of the Su-27 1970's,” the analyst points out.

As for the Chinese, who want to buy the Su-35, then we will probably hear about them soon.

The aforementioned Konstantin Bogdanov does not consider relations between China and Russia in the military-technical sphere allied. Extremely pragmatic, reaching cynicism:

“From the very beginning, there was no romance in the military relations of Russia and China - moreover, on both sides he saw polite, but undisguised cynicism in his very best edition. Both sides only thought about how to use the “great neighbor” at their side to realize their current interests. That is why it is erroneous to even talk about signs of a possible military alliance. ”


The possibility of a military alliance is also denied by the chairman of the presidium of the Council on Foreign and Defense Policy, Fedor Lukyanov. According to him, which leads "Free press"“All Russian-Chinese exercises are proceeding according to scenario plans not to prevent any real threats, but rather an abstract fight against terrorism.”

There is no military-political rapprochement between Russia and China:

“In practice, I think not. China fundamentally does not enter into military-political alliances. His line in this sense is identical to the Russian one: not to limit his sovereignty and freedom of hands to entering into any binding relationship.

In addition, right now, China is taking a rather tricky position. He does not support the anti-Russian campaign, does not support sanctions against the Russian Federation, but at the same time does not support Russia. Beijing is limited to silently following the actions of Moscow - first in the Crimea, now in the situation around Donbass. This fact, in my opinion, once again proves that we have no real military-political interaction with the People's Republic of China, and it is unlikely that it will appear in the near future. ”


However, there is a different opinion.

Academician of the Academy of Geopolitical Problems, Colonel-General Leonid Ivashov about the prospects for military cooperation between Russia and China told the Free Press the following:

“Military cooperation within the framework of the SCO is now clearly activated. And the most large-scale cooperation, naturally, goes along the Moscow-Beijing line. This is not just about the supply of Russian weapons by the PRC — they also designate projects for joint weapons production, as well as military equipment production.

Due to the fact that the West is imposing sanctions against Russian defense enterprises, this area of ​​cooperation will only expand. I am sure that in the near future, closer contact will be established between the ministries of defense of China and Russia, and training of Chinese soldiers in Russian universities, and political consultations on military issues ... "


To this we must add that China and Russia today are nevertheless strategic partners "willy-nilly" - because of Western sanctions, which the USA and Europe "punished" Russia for the "annexation" of the Crimea and, in general, for the "Ukrainian crisis." Washington wanted to win over China, but it didn’t work. After all, China wants to buy Russian gas, and even inexpensive.

The White House under Obama changed priorities. Today, the United States considers the “pivot” geopolitical (and “defense”) strategy of the Asia-Pacific region, where Japan and other territorial “disputants” with China are slowly swaying. Beijing can not ignore this and not take into account. That is why he refused to support the United States sanctions against Russia.

And China will copy the Russian military equipment, there is no doubt about that. Consuetude est altera natura. Habit is second nature.

Observed and commented on Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
17 comments
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  1. master 84
    master 84 29 August 2014 09: 48
    +4
    The best friend of the army but his own
    1. avg
      avg 29 August 2014 22: 31
      +1
      The aforementioned Konstantin Bogdanov does not consider relations between China and Russia in the military-technical sphere allied. Extremely pragmatic, reaching cynicism:

      I see nothing wrong with that. I hope that the time of kisses sucked, as evidence of brotherly love, has sunk into oblivion.
    2. siberalt
      siberalt 30 August 2014 10: 54
      0
      Give China an S-400, they will sell it all over the world three times cheaper in a year or a year and a half under the brand name "made in China S-400 +". Something like this.
      1. Frisbee
        Frisbee 12 September 2014 11: 17
        0
        The Chinese will soon control the sex of Siberia with or without S-400
    3. tripletrunk
      tripletrunk 31 August 2014 15: 09
      0
      The question is not whether China will attack Russia, but when.
      If large-scale military aggression in the “classical” form is ever to be committed against Russia, then China will be the aggressor with a 95% (if not 99,99%) probability.
      Of course, China prefers a peaceful form of expansion (economic and demographic).
      But the military is by no means excluded.
      It is extremely significant that in recent years, the Chinese army has been conducting exercises that are simply impossible to interpret otherwise than preparing for aggression against Russia.
      Already, only two of the seven military districts of the Chinese army - the Beijing and Shenyang adjacent to the border with Russia - are stronger than all the Russian Armed Forces (from Kaliningrad to Kamchatka).
      And in the potential theater of operations (Transbaikalia and the Far East), the forces of the parties are simply not comparable, China surpasses us not even many times, but ten times.
      At the same time, the transfer of troops from the West in the event of a real war will be practically impossible, since the Chinese saboteurs are guaranteed to cut the Trans-Siberian Railway in many places at once along its entire length, and we have no other communications with the east.
      But what neither the USA nor Russia has - a medium-range ballistic missile.
      In relation to Russia, Chinese DF-21C missiles are strategic - from the territory of China they are able to reach almost all vital Russian facilities
  2. Crang
    Crang 29 August 2014 10: 19
    +3
    We must work very carefully with the Chinese in the military sphere. For example, cooperation in the tank sphere has led to the fact that China's tanks are now cooler than ours. And there are many of them. Cooperation in naval technology has led to the fact that the Chinese fleet has become more powerful than ours. You shouldn't "cooperate" like that. Or let them give us their technologies as well. We will install a Type-90A99 laser system on the T-2A.
  3. Nayhas
    Nayhas 29 August 2014 10: 31
    +1
    Absolutely to the point ... Russia has no alternative to China and will no longer be. China, however, will live without Russia, on the basis of this, and its position is being built in relations with us.
    Exceptionally pragmatism, reaching cynicism

    Naive patriots believe that China will replace Europe and the USA with us ... partially yes, only more expensive and lower quality ...
    Well, for those who rely on their own resources: what is the percentage of university graduates who really have a technical education? And how is our secondary special education doing here? And what is the state of our village?
  4. Monetniy
    Monetniy 29 August 2014 10: 51
    +6
    How is it that we consider the Chinese as friends, and the Ukrainians as enemies.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 29 August 2014 12: 15
      +2
      Quote: Monetniy
      How is it that we consider the Chinese as friends, and the Ukrainians as enemies.

      And the Chinese are called agitators as friends, but in reality people usually have the opposite opinion. They are completely different, and appearance is not important ...
    2. Ayujak
      Ayujak 29 August 2014 12: 25
      +1
      Nobody considers Ukrainians to be enemies. And no one is going to cut them. Enemies are the fascist elite and all sorts of right-wing people. People are zombified with propaganda. Naive people. You just go there. Talk to people. Say: "what are you doing" brotherly people "?" And look at the reaction.
      In geopolitical terms, Ukraine is an enemy, because acting on orders from washington.
      And on the other hand, China is with the communist regime. If you think about it, then China is neither a friend nor an enemy. This is a hidden dragon. But at least he will not show hostility, as Ukraine does. And this is a big plus in relations between the Russian Federation and China.
    3. Second
      Second 29 August 2014 13: 03
      +1
      Oligarchy, my friend. The oligarchy pitted the Slavs in the fratricidal war, supporting the Bandera. The very oligarch who prays to the golden calf sold the latest military developments to China. Grandmas, nothing personal. As a result, the Chinese have better tanks, tankers, as the last biathlon showed, fired better than ours, the Chinese army is several times larger than ours. It’s better not to write about the mobilization reserve. And the worst thing is that the Chinese REALLY pretend to OUR TERRITORIES. Saying we torn them from China 170 years ago.
      PS With an ally like China, we do not need enemies.
      1. Cenij150814
        Cenij150814 29 August 2014 20: 48
        0
        Quote: Second
        And the worst thing is that the Chinese REALLY pretend to OUR TERRITORIES. Saying we torn them from China 170 years ago.
        PS With an ally like China, we do not need enemies.

        It becomes calmer when you realize that you are not alone in the realization of what is happening hi
  5. Crang
    Crang 29 August 2014 10: 59
    +1
    Quote: Monetniy
    How is it that we consider the Chinese as friends, and the Ukrainians as enemies.

    And thank God that the Chinese are friends. Remember Damansky. But if then the USSR could quite easily defeat China, then now there will clearly be problems with this.
  6. Kimblee
    Kimblee 29 August 2014 11: 07
    +1
    I like the Chinese. The people are so cunning and resourceful that all kinds of Jews smoke aside. China may be an ally in the fight against the United States, but will never agree to second place.
  7. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 29 August 2014 11: 07
    +5
    All the time they blame the Chinese for some trick, okay, but of course they don’t have a head on their shoulders? Of course, many officials have it, just to have it, and not only officials. All the achievements of the Asian tigers were not for that that General Park, Deng Xiaoping or Li Kuan Yew, spoke to people making beautiful speeches, they don’t do it in Russia, they didn’t develop any kind of activity, moreover, they were toughly authoritarian. there was some kind of Belalov in Sochi, he couldn’t manage and even stole, so he had to cut off his head in public with a rusty saw and put it near these jumps, they put Kozak, the man did everything in the best possible way, he can do the same. Discipline is not instilled by stroking the head and threatening with a finger for misconduct, but is instilled by kicks, screams and sticks, and when mass shootings are necessary. All Comrade Stalin did right, his inertia was then enough for another half a century. whether that’s why they are ahead, and Russia is lagging somewhere behind, having enormous resources and scientific and industrial potential. And so let's continue to sigh and guess na..et is China or not us .. is ...
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. bober2708
    bober2708 29 August 2014 11: 59
    +2
    The Chinese are great in everything. Probably they will be the first to master Mars, they will bring to mind the spacecraft "according to the knurled working scheme" and go. Take their auto industry as an example - the “Chinese car” stereotype will soon be a thing of the past. The price-quality ratio is, in my opinion, the best. And how many dump trucks (Chinese) of 30 tonnes are now? Competitors aside.
  10. diff
    diff 29 August 2014 15: 49
    +2
    As long as there is the USA and the British crown, which finds new enemies for everyone, China will be friends with the Russian Federation!
    1. Cenij150814
      Cenij150814 29 August 2014 21: 06
      0
      Probably, it will be so, only in this friendship (pose) I prefer that the Russian Federation be behind and not vice versa, to which our government leads us fool well at worst back to back soldier
  11. antey
    antey 29 August 2014 17: 26
    +1
    Yeah, China will live while rockets fly
  12. 937.195.71
    937.195.71 29 August 2014 22: 07
    +1
    India needs to be called into the Allied Indians more than the Chinese, they are more modest and are often forgotten about them
  13. Talgat
    Talgat 29 August 2014 22: 29
    +3
    The unfair world order according to the dictates of the Fed and the United States is already tired of half the world - why should there be a golden billion (and there is a golden million and a ruling thousand - whose names are clearly not Ivan and not Myrkymbaev)
    and at the same time 5 billion doomed to hunger poverty or at least a lower standard of living

    The union of China and Russia is just part of the process - half the world rises against injustice and violence - BRICS and all of Latin America, the emerging Eurasian Union, Iran and Syria and others

    Lists of countries in the upcoming confrontation are already being determined
  14. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 30 August 2014 12: 11
    0
    If you don’t need to sell, you don’t need to sell. Only sell what you don’t need to sell. China should be one step lower, and always.
  15. raven75
    raven75 30 August 2014 12: 52
    0
    Probably, China should not sell the latest military equipment, because of the foul habit of the Chinese to copy everything for free. While copying it sucks, an example is a copied S-300 air defense system, some kind of garbage from the Chinese turned out, compared to the original, (although much cheaper), also with "dryers". They get a plug with engines, no one sells the production technology to them, and the rocket engine of an air defense missile system or "drying" is not some kind of iPhone, without knowing the exact technological process of production, the Chinese get surrogates. But they are stubborn and there are a lot of them, they can in the end, by trial and error, do something normal.
  16. faterdom
    faterdom 30 August 2014 19: 04
    +1
    Interests will bring each other together. And economic cooperation, from the common pipe of the GTS to China, to the joint attack on the dollar, as an unsuitable substitute for money, and the common threats about fundamentalists of Central Asia simply make us go to military cooperation in ever wider forms. Including the confrontation with the United States, which is de facto conducted by both countries, is also quite pushing.
    But the Chinese will not go against their interests, not Ukrainians, I suppose
  17. Alfizik
    Alfizik 31 August 2014 08: 47
    0
    Let them copy. While this and that, new developments will appear. And innovation processes are accelerating. The main thing is not to transfer technology. The West transferred technologies at one time, moved production to Asia, and now we have highly developed Japan, Korea, etc. But not so long ago everyone laughed at the same Japanese electronics. And the Chinese prices ... Salaries have increased several times over there ... Stop, long story. In short, the cost of their products will not be much lower than ours, so let them copy. The main thing is the work of the brain in the right direction, transforming the intellect and mind, and not tortured "teaser copies".
  18. fiodor
    fiodor 31 August 2014 22: 39
    +1
    Do you remember the slogan of the early 50s "Russian and Chinese are brothers for a century", then it turned out to be bullshit, the Chinese attacked the Damansky island, in general, our difficult relationship was constantly claiming some pieces of territory, but this is not the point now, China really today he is a great copyist, give them such a feeling, give them a portrait of Mona Lisa and they will not make such a copy from Leonardo da Vinci smile therefore, I think it’s impossible for them to sell our most modern weaponry today, because they will copy without hesitation, our designers have been hovering over it for years, and they just copied it to the ladies once. no way. to sell something that is somewhat outdated, please, but not modern at all. I have a feeling that as soon as we deliver gas to them so many cubes, they will copy it and then refuse to supply laughing they must be friends with, but with caution, they are on their own mind, they have a completely different mentality and outlook on life.
    1. fiodor
      fiodor 1 September 2014 00: 08
      +2
      In general, hope for the Chinese, but don’t go wrong smile, you need to think what to sell and give. This is also considered a brain drain, only through the goods.