The death of the USSR

Who was the gravedigger of the Soviet Union, who covered the democratic fifth column, and what did the leaders of the USSR and the KGB of the USSR undertake in August 1991, fatal for their country, to save it? What are the most fatal mistakes made by the leaders of the Emergency Committee in three days? On these questions, the former deputy head of the PGU KGB of the USSR, head of the Analytical Directorate of the KGB of the USSR, doctor historical Sciences, writer, lieutenant general N. S. Leonov.

"TOMORROW". Nikolai Sergeevich, how could you comment on the statement made to me in the interview for the newspaper “Podmoskovie” by the chairman of the USSR KGB V. A Kryuchkov: “Regardless of whether or not 1991 was signed in August in the form in which it was needed the then USSR President M.Gorbachev, the Allied but renewed treaty between the socialist republics, still the USSR was waiting for the end! ”

Nikolai Leonov. I think that the problem of the end of the superpower, which, of course, was the USSR, does not lie in the reason for signing or not signing the Union Treaty! All the trends of these events, which we will discuss in this interview, from 1988 to 1991 years, indicate that it was a matter of the collapse of a great power, regardless of the options that might be introduced in this process! I personally happened to be in 1989 year in the countries that are now called Baltic. Then, on the instructions of the chairman of the USSR State Security Committee Viktor Mikhailovich Chebrikov, I traveled to all the Baltic republics of the USSR.

On this trip, I was accompanied then by another general from the intelligence department of the KGB of the USSR, whose name I will not name, because he himself was from the Baltic states, and who now continues to live in one of these republics! And during this trip to all the then Baltic republics of the USSR, I had the opportunity to talk, both with the party leadership of these republics and with the government representation, and with my colleagues, who, as you understand, headed the KGB offices of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.

Arriving in Moscow, I wrote a note to the Central Committee of the Communist Party, having previously reported my conclusions about what was happening at that time, in these republics of the USSR, to Chebrikov, chairman of the USSR State Security Committee, that it was about to split them off from the USSR . Since all the established trends and organizations, such as “Sajudis” in Lithuania, and in other republics of the USSR in the Baltic States, led the business of splitting off their republics and leaving the USSR!

"TOMORROW". And you, as one of the leaders and members of the Board of the USSR State Security Committee, suggested any measures to counter these nationalist trends? As I was told by your colleagues from the counterintelligence directorates of the KGB of the USSR, these trends were supported and now supported by Western intelligence agencies and the US State Department.

Nikolai Leonov. On the question of what could then have been undertaken to prevent these processes, I then formulated a proposal that could slow down this process. It was called “To hold the Balticization of Finland”. The meaning of the plan I proposed was to provide the Baltic republics of the USSR with full cost accounting, to stop taking excessive taxes from them, to give them the opportunity to make excess profits, since they were the most industrially developed in scientific and technical terms. And it may even be, within certain limits, to provide political freedom. Since it was during the existence of Tsarist Russia with its constituent Finland, which then had, for example, its own parliament, and we, then did not have it. Here, something similar we then proposed to create for the Baltic republics of the USSR.

"TOMORROW". And how was the opposition of the democratic forces of Russia fed by the West going to your plans and proposals of the specialists of the Analytical Division of the KGB of the USSR?

Nikolai Leonov. Literally, a few months after our trip to the Baltic republics of the USSR, Alexander Nikolayevich Yakovlev, Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU, made his voyage on them. I remember very well that he wrote a note to the CPSU Central Committee and Politburo, a completely opposite character to what I stated in my note.

In his opinion, all the processes of a political nature that took place in the Baltic States did not carry a threat to the USSR. There just went a normal process of democratization. And, in his opinion, organizations such as Saoudis and popular fronts that began their formation in Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia did not pose any danger to the integrity of the country.

"TOMORROW". It turns out that even then representatives of the Central Committee of the Party, who fell under the influence of the West and first of all the United States, becoming reincarnates, allowed the local nationalist elite, who fell into the executive power of these republics, to do what they wanted. And also to make any laws they need, which led to the collapse of the USSR in December 1991?

Nikolai Leonov. In the days we are talking about, the processes were simply separatist. The CPSU Central Committee stayed inactive for too long, did not take any measures, including those I mentioned above, because, as I know, my proposals for the Finlandisation of the Baltic republics were read by the top leadership of the USSR, but none of them turned to them, unfortunately no attention.
So far the matter did not come at a later stage to open speeches of all the nationalists of these republics, who had to be suppressed by force, and which could not be suppressed even with the help of the USSR army!

And here we are talking about the fact that the central government did not cope with the situation, and the State Security Committee informed the Central Committee of the Party in full what situation and what nationalists of all colors in the republics of the USSR are planning!

"TOMORROW". And what was the nature of the information coming from the KGB of the USSR to the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Politburo? And also, did it talk about the wrecking activity of A. N. Yakovlev, who, with his memoranda to the Central Committee, covers the nationalists of the Baltic states and thereby threatens the integrity of the USSR?

Nikolai Leonov. If it would be possible to declassify the documents of that time, the period of the collapse of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, anyone could easily see that all the information that came from the KGB of the USSR to the Party Central Committee was clearly proactive. The information said that the case is already going to the collapse of the USSR. And if the leadership of that time of our country did not take any political measures, then we can already interpret this either by the helplessness of the people in power or by their brainlessness and lack of understanding of the measure of danger. And the fact that all warning systems then worked properly, here I have no doubt!

"TOMORROW". It turns out that the former president of the USSR, M. Gorbachev, could not understand what he was driving his country, which he so ineptly controls, and most importantly, that the coming collapse of the USSR will lead to its own political collapse as a leader? And what role in these events played A. N. Yakovlev, whom he blindly believed?

Nikolai Leonov. Gorbachev was stupid, like a “gray gelding”, as one Gogol's hero of the comedy “The Inspector General” said about the mayor. What he was doing, I will not find another word for his actions, he did not understand what consequences his actions would lead to. He could not even understand how to manage the processes of his own actions, which he carried out, so now ask from Gorbachev, this is also what to ask from the goat's milk, which the goat simply does not have!

Therefore, I repeat once again that he never understood, and what he does when leading a superpower. He could not explain, or decipher, but what is the meaning of the word perestroika he loves, for which he called on the people of the USSR. It was just his complete improvisation, until the case entered the destructive stage!

And the processes that you recalled in your question, in Nagorno-Karabakh, in Kazakhstan, are all links in one chain. After all, he removed the first secretary of the Central Committee of Kazakhstan Kunaev and put him in his place, completely reckless that the Russian man did not need to be done in that political situation. What immediately led to street performances that led to bloodshed and the subsequent development of the nationalist spiral already in the republics of Central Asia

"TOMORROW". And as for the issues of combating nationalism in different republics, in your opinion, Nikolai Sergeevich, it was possible and necessary to solve without using army units and special groups of the USSR KGB, like "Alpha", during the assault on the territory of Central Asia, the Transcaucasus and the Baltic republics. Vilnius TV Tower? And were there any cases in the history of our country when the former leadership of the USSR by the hands of the KGB of their country without a clang tank caterpillars solved possible outbreaks of terrorism in different parts of the USSR?

Nikolai Leonov. Even when Andropov was the first secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU, he said that the nationalism that we inherited from the royal order, we were able to win. But during the Soviet era, nationalism mimicked, acquiring completely different forms and forms, and other characteristics, and with this nationalism it is necessary to act very carefully. In my opinion, not the way it was done by the President of the USSR Gorbachev in Kazakhstan, in Nagorno-Karabakh, where everything went into a dressing, and where his actions led to a lot of blood. In order not to be unfounded, I will give one example, because I remember how Andropov received the report of the KGB Chairman on Uzbekistan Levon Melkumov, who reported Yuriy Vladimirovich about the greatest mess and nationalistic orgy that was going on in Uzbekistan over forty pages. And I remember very well that, after reading this report, Andropov said that this report is true, but now he’s breaking the first secretary of the Central Committee of Uzbekistan Rashidov as suggested by the Chairman of the KGB Office for Uzbekistan Melkumov, and could flow out of this document time. Therefore, he didn’t remove Rashidov from there, which would surely lead to an explosion of the nationalist spiral, as in Kazakhstan, but preferred to send the chairman of the KGB of this republic to another post, on a foreign trip, so that those who were involved in the bacchanal would not settle accounts with him , and knew about the drafting of this document.

Nationalism must be treated extremely subtly, so I can say that Gorbachev, of course, did not understand the whole danger of the nationalist threat, ignored it, until it finally smashed the entire state led by it.

"TOMORROW". Well, we dealt with the first and the last president of the USSR, but Alexander Yakovlev could not help but understand what and how he creates, destroying a great power?

Nikolai Leonov. When I had to work as the head of the Analytical Directorate of the KGB of the USSR and deal with the internal processes taking place in the USSR, and I was appointed to this post in February 1991 of the year, some eight, ten months before the death of the USSR, I wrote on the basis of the intelligence data, a note to Gorbachev personally, which was naturally signed by the then chairman of the KGB of the USSR, Kryuchkov, about Alexander Nikolayevich Yakovlev. The note said in black and white that this person is an enemy of the Communist Party, leads to the death of the CPSU, the socialist system and only a matter of time when he announces his withdrawal from the party, and in fact will provoke its split.

And this document was reported to Kryuchkov Gorbachev, and he did not find anything better and clever how to show this note to Yakovlev himself, which caused an attack of rage and hatred towards the USSR State Security Committee. But life has shown that his behavior in all matters, from the Baltic to the GDR, was treacherous. Although in the same GDR everything went to the break of the Berlin Wall and to those terrible events that they began to call the era of velvet revolutions.

Yakovlev all the time lied to Gorbachev, and he, like any super-fool, swallowed Yakovlev nonsense because, being a weak man, he fell under the absolute influence of Yakovlev and Shevardnadze and became a weak-willed puppet in their hands.

All events, with the death of the USSR and the arrival of B. Yeltsin to power in Russia, were associated primarily with the loss of control over the media by the party. Yakovlev, being the secretary of the Central Committee and a member of the Politburo in charge of this industry, was able to quietly pass with consent and without resistance from the President of the USSR Gorbachev all the media to people whom we can consider ardent enemies of socialism. Judge for yourself, by the summer of 1991, practically only one “Soviet Russia” remained in the hands of the party.

“Spark” was led by V. Korotich - at the time of the August events of the State Emergency Committee he understood that the KGB of the USSR knew a lot about his work to undermine the country and tried to stay in the United States. Izvestia belonged to Golimbiovsky, one of the most important Zionist democrats. And so, what to talk about such an edition as “Moscow news, Whose editor-in-chief was not only a namesake, but also one of A.N. Yakovlev.

It is no coincidence after the August events of 1991, Yegor Yakovlev, with the suggestion of the same A.N. Yakovlev, began to manage the most important of the influence on the masses of television, making it not just commercial, but even more anti-Soviet. He gave all the time to those politicians who had a hand in the destruction of the USSR, and to the journalists who served them.

All that we are talking about was subordinated to a single conductor's stick, it was not for nothing that all the Western media asserted that A. Yakovlev was the foreman of restructuring, that he was the main intellectual brain of restructuring. Of course, Gorbachev, even being the leader of the country, was just a slug in front of him, giving each question to Yakovlev!

Oleg Kalugin and Alexander Yakovlev, and two more people whose names I’m just sorry to, will not be mentioned in this interview - one group of young people who were studying in the United States of America at Columbia University in the late fifties. We, the workers of the First Main Directorate of the KGB of the USSR, have deep convictions that all of them were then recruited by the American special services.

"TOMORROW". Please tell us, how did the intelligence community in the person of the CIA of the United States reward the actions of their kept women whose names you named A. Yakovlev and O. Kalugin?

Nikolai Leonov. As for the first person involved in your question, A. Yakovlev, he was paid, first of all, by exorbitant swelling of his personality, his intellectual, theoretical abilities. He received for his activities against the USSR, for his performances in the period of perestroika, the highest fees in the United States. All his books, no matter how shit they are, about which none of the Russian people remember, were published in the United States of America and Western Europe. He received huge fees and all sorts of prizes, in a word, his masters from the American special services and state authorities fanned him like village boys, sticking straws into a toad.

So the Americans do in relation to each of their agents of influence, whoever he is, Yakovlev, Politkovskaya, or a State Duma deputy. They make large figures of world scale and level.

From the same Kalugin at one time blinded the "fighter for democracy." Where is he now? He works as a vulgar guide to the places where the PSU of the KGB of the USSR worked in Washington. He was granted the right to engage in any kind of activity in the United States, in fact, the guarantee status of the hostages in the master's house.

"TOMORROW". The introduction of a state of emergency in our country in August 1991, in your opinion, could or not save the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics from death?

Nikolai Leonov. The history of that time showed us two historical examples. In 1989, a similar situation occurred in China in Tiananmen Square. By the way, at that very moment President of the USSR Gorbachev was there on a state visit. Chinese leader Deng Xia Opin, who will go down in history as the creator of great China, without hesitation, suggested using his army and secret police force to disperse the opposition rally, realizing that it might be necessary to shed some blood for the future of the great Chinese state and his people!

Gorbachev tried to tweet there that he needed to search for ways of reconciliation to the fighting parties - consensus, as he liked to say, and the Chinese authorities, telling him, Mikhail Sergeyevich, go back to your own country and go back to your own affairs, after which they quietly sent him to the homeland.
Themselves brought tanks onto the streets and quietly suppressed the opposition. Yes, blood has been shed, but the struggle for power is always connected with the shedding of blood. Justified these actions? Fully. After all, before our eyes, China is turning into a great economically developed power, and the Chinese people are only grateful to the people for having made such a decision.

And our degenerate leadership, when two years later attempting to do something similar, no longer had the will, the decisiveness, or the firmness of character.

And when the crowd gathered around the White House, the bewildered leaders, together with the leadership of the KGB of the USSR, preferred to surrender power, sit in the Matrosskaya Silence, and not take measures to save the system, the Motherland and the people.

"TOMORROW". It turns out that V. Kryuchkov, Chairman of the KGB of the USSR, was also guilty of the failure of the State Emergency Committee. Having all the information about the enemy’s plans, and seeing that Gorbachev was doing a couple with Yeltsin, he didn’t even try to declare the President of the People’s Deputies The USSR once again tells a lie. And he did not offer more stringent measures to the fate of the leaders of the collapse of the country, having all the power of his special services?

Nikolai Leonov. History, in my opinion, does not remove guilt and historical responsibility from the Chairman of the KGB of the USSR, Vladimir Kryuchkov. Vladimir Alexandrovich grew up under the leadership of the KGB of the USSR Andropov, under the Andropov wing, and while Yury Vladimirovich was alive, all decisions of Kryuchkov were, as a rule, verified and were accurate. But as soon as Gorbachev appointed Kryuchkov as an independent political figure, when Vladimir Alexandrovich became the chairman of the KGB of the USSR, a member of the Politburo, when he was responsible for making crucial decisions and measures to strengthen the state, his shortcomings showed up, especially hesitancy. Therefore, no matter how hard he tried, he didn’t justify himself in his books, but I must say that his character was not strong enough. This is evident from the fact that in the Emergency Committee, assembled on his initiative, for a long time they could not even elect a chairman.

"TOMORROW". It turns out that when Gorbachev came to power in the USSR, another terrible thing happened, like the degeneration of the party itself? And just before him, as I was told by your colleagues in the KGB of the USSR, even when N. Khrushchev came to power in the USSR, was the spirit of independence out of the special services?

Nikolai Leonov. Of course, there was a degeneration of the party top, and, completely. Indeed, in those days, the party did not call for anyone to take to the streets to support the State Emergency Committee. After all, if, say, half a year earlier, at the beginning of 1991, the Communist Party of the USSR would appeal to all members of the CPSU, explain the situation and bring them to the streets, then the Communists would crush all this democratic punks. The Communist Party was a huge force, but not claimed and untapped by the Emergency Committee.

The State Emergency Committee was a coward and thought, somehow to top things up. Their endless backstage talks with Yeltsin and their indecisiveness led to their being, as they say, in the dustbin of history.

"TOMORROW". Sorry for clarifying my question, do you want to say, Nikolay Sergeevich, that the State Emergency Committee led secret negotiations with the enemies of the USSR?
Nikolai Leonov. The members of the State Emergency Committee negotiated with Yeltsin, if you call him an enemy of our country. Kryuchkov, for example, told us members of the KGB of the USSR collegiate, 19 in the morning of that August 1991, said that a state of emergency had been declared in our country that Nazarbayev called, who fully supported the introduction of the Emergency Committee and his documents, that we would agree with Yeltsin. After these words, all the members of the collegium of the KGB of the USSR decided that everything was thought out and coordinated.

When there was a question about the creation of the State Security Committee of the RSFR, I traveled with Kryuchkov to negotiate - to persuade Yeltsin not to create a Russian KGB, so as not to split the special services of the USSR. But I was not allowed to negotiate: Kryuchkov and Yeltsin were talking privately, I was sitting in the waiting room and I was entertained by conversations with Burbulis. What Kryuchkov and Yeltsin said was a mystery to me, Vladimir Alexandrovich said that they could not reach an agreement.

"TOMORROW". As a professional, as an analyst, you did not try to tell the Chairman of the KGB of the USSR that you need to act in relation to the opponents of the Soviet government more rigidly, as stated in V. Lenin's postulate “If the enemy does not surrender, will he be destroyed?”

Nikolai Leonov. Vladimir Alexandrovich, I said things more seditious for those times. We, employees of the special services of the KGB of the SSR, understood that the country was falling apart, and that the people included in the State Emergency Committee had no opportunity to regain control in the party and in law enforcement. Kryuchkov, going with him in the car, I said, Vladimir Alexandrovich, you will now be talking with Yeltsin - ask him to become the president of the USSR instead of Gorbachev, in order to save the USSR. While Yeltsin and Gorbachev are fighting among themselves, it is pointless to talk about saving the state, because whatever Yeltsin is healthy, he will soon leave anyway, and we will save the USSR.

Then the authority of Yeltsin in the eyes of the people was very great, unlike Gorbachev. I advised Kryuchkov to suggest that Yeltsin hold an election for the president of the USSR, after all, Gorbachev was elected by the Congress of People’s Deputies, and this was no longer completely legitimate.

My idea was: let Yeltsin be for some time, the main thing is not to chop the Soviet Union, just as Solomon did not chop the child up, but gave it to the one who, in the name of life, refused him. Whether Kryuchkov told Yeltsin about this, or didn’t say, I don’t know, they were talking behind closed doors.

And about the backstage side of the Emergency Committee, none of its members have written the whole truth in their memoirs to the end.

"TOMORROW". It turns out that you, who served in the most informed organization that knew what was happening all over the world, did not know what was happening in the leadership of the USSR? Apparently, in those days you were given the order - to sit and wait?

Nikolai Leonov. We didn’t even say that in those days of August. We sat in the Lubyanka and, receiving information from all sides, did not know to whom to send it, who in the country now leads. Kryuchkovu we reported all the information we had.

And the situation in those days was such that if the State Emergency Committee did not listen to Swan Lake and did not hold a press conference with shaking hands, but would appeal to the people, the party, the law enforcement agencies, would call them to defend the USSR and socialism , I think that the balance of forces would change in favor of the Emergency Committee. And if its members decided on what the Chinese authorities decided in 1989, their activities would now be given a different assessment.

Comments

[MSA]

All signs of the fifth column should be held accountable publicly, on a tough and for real terms, which would not have been shared by the rest, and also blocked the sources of financing.
Everyone who saw, knew and kept silent at the same time as accomplices, cruel of course, but how else to deal with traitors.

[Civil]

CCCP died because:
! The people who inhabited him finger to finger did not hit in order to save their country, exchanged socialism for chewing gum, jeans and Coca-Cola.
2. Lying in society has become the norm.
3. There was no change of leadership.

[Russian Alex]

Guided by these simple principles.

[severniy]

we’ll hammer it, but I would hang this rot ... spotted, since we didn’t have time to sell a Georgian .., a bastard died, so at least get it back ...

[rodevaan]

They saved our country at the cost of millions of lives, and we - prosrali for a piece of a gmoshny burger.

[Daniel]

Quote: Civil

CCCP died because:

... from the very beginning was unviable. The rest is comments.

Quote: Civil

2. Lying in society has become the norm.

In many societies, lies are the norm. This can be seen in many countries, not only the USSR and not only the West.

Quote: Civil

3. There was no change of leadership.

Right. Without the change of power, there is no development of the country.
PS In Singapore for the last 50 years there has been no concept of "leadership turnover", which did not prevent it from becoming one of the "Asian tigers", but this is rather an exception.

[Interface]

... from the very beginning was unviable

Prove it.

[Dart2027]

The whole USSR rested on one man - Stalin. Since his death (and most likely murder), gradual degradation began. The very idea of ​​creating a communist society is utopia.

[Interface]

The very idea of ​​creating a communist society is utopia.

The United States is not an exceptional country, as it presents itself, but the US economic and political system does not make this fact unviable.

More convincing please.

The whole USSR rested on one man - Stalin.

Stalin had a successor-- Georgy Malenkov.
If one and a half Khrushchev, with his thick ass, got ahead of his comrades for the post of the 1 Secretary of the Central Committee, this does not mean that the system is ineffective.

The struggle for power is in any state. Only in the USSR did the wrong person win it.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Interface

More convincing please

Communism is possible if humanity changes fundamentally. "The best people", "New people," The psychology of people of the future, etc. That is, a reasonable person will become not only reasonable, but also moral, and by virtue of its nature - education means a lot, but it is not enough. But this did not happen When it will be and whether it will be at all, I do not know, but I doubt that in the foreseeable future.
I agree about the United States, but there is not even capitalism there. Modern states remind me of Spain from the time of its colonial rule - she lived due to the robbery of the colonies and eventually completely degraded.

Quote: Interface

The struggle for power is in any state. Only in the USSR the wrong person won it

Not the one, although it seems to me that the receiver should have been not Malenkov, but Beria. But in any case, this does not solve the problem described above.
Yes, the device of the USSR had a lot of good things, do not get me wrong - I do not deny this, but I still would not be able to build communism.

[andj61]

Quote: Dart2027

Yes, the device of the USSR had a lot of good things, do not get me wrong - I do not deny this, but I still would not be able to build communism.

And you analyze what a communist society means? Implementation of the principle "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"?
Back in the days of the USSR, they realized that this was a utopia! If a person has a car, he wants it better; there is a house, an apartment - you want more, more prestigious, on the ocean shore - and so on - to infinity. This was said to me by a lecturer on scientific communism at a university in the eighties. So he said that communism is a society at such a level of productive forces, at which it is possible to provide the BASIC needs of 90% of the population, without forcing anyone to work, but only by stimulating labor. Naturally, with public - read, "state" - ownership of the means of production. What difference does it make to an ordinary person. who owns the plant - the capitalist or the state. If the lower strata of society are provided with a tolerable existence - social sphere, then some people will not work - they are already happy! So it turns out that the creators of the theory of "convergence" were right to some extent, who asserted that at a certain stage socialism will accept the features of capitalism, and capitalism will be socialism.
So communism is just a step away, you can reach out with your hand!

[Dart2027]

Quote: andj61

If the lower strata of society are provided with a tolerable existence - the social sphere, then some people will not work

All people will not work. Is it further clear?

[voffchik7691]

So after all they changed, brought up, until they were sold for a hamburger and Coke, and those who were at the top sold out!

[gunya]

"The very idea of ​​creating a communist society is a utopia."
Common words, provide evidence. Remember the replacement of the social system as humanity evolves.
The USSR cannot be restored in its former form, but one must remember the lessons of the collapse and draw conclusions so as not to destroy Russia. And first of all, it is necessary to change the internal policy by removing from power "liberals" and liberal thieves (as well as just thieves).

[Dart2027]

Quote: gunya

Common words, provide evidence

My post is at 18:31 (right in front of yours).

Quote: gunya

removing from power "liberals" and liberal thieves (as well as just thieves)

Of course, only this business is far from one year.

[Victor Demchenko]

and it is VERY sorry that it is quickly impossible to take ALL liberalists for the genitals!

[Uncover]

Interesting! Vorye removes thieves - nonsense ...

[DV69]

Quote: Bombula

Interesting! Vorye removes thieves - nonsense ...

What did Putin steal?

[Normal]

Quote: DV69

What did Putin steal?

Power. The right to choose.

CONSTITUTION OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION

Section One. Key Points

Chapter 1. Fundamentals of the constitutional system

Article 3

1. The holder of sovereignty and sole source of power in the Russian Federation is its multinational people.

2. The people exercise their power directlyas well as through public authorities and local authorities self.

3.The highest direct expression of people's power are referendum and free elections.

4.No one may usurp power in the Russian Federation. The seizure of power or the appropriation of power is prosecuted by federal law.

www.constitution.ru/10003000/10003000-3.htm

[DV69]

[quote = Normal] Power. The right to choose. [Quote]

So you want to say that the results of the presidential election were rigged? And who won those elections?

[Normal]

Quote: DV69

So you want to say that the results of the presidential election were rigged?

Without any doubt.

Quote: DV69

And who won those elections?

Putin But not with such a result.

And it is not a question of who won, but of HOW he won and how he uses this victory.

If the ruler conducts internal political propaganda in such a way that the population does not even have the idea that someone can (has the right) to rule EXCEPT him, then I have doubts about the honesty of his election.
If the ruler does not build a stable political system, but rules the country manually, then I have doubts that he rules in the interests of the people and the state, and not in his (and his environment) narrowly personal interests.

[DV69]

Quote: Normal

If the ruler conducts internal political propaganda in such a way that the population does not even have the idea that someone can (has the right) to rule EXCEPT him, then I have doubts about the honesty of his election.
If the ruler does not build a stable political system, but rules the country manually, then I have doubts that he rules in the interests of the people and the state, and not in his (and his environment) narrowly personal interests.

Based on what you wrote, you do not see another candidate for the presidency. Given your nihilism, it can be assumed that the majority of the country's population also cannot name another worthy candidate for this position. Nevertheless, you believe that the election is rigged. Interesting you make a conclusion.
Regarding propaganda, it’s actually very bad that Putin has no competitors today. Nobody offers anything, everyone just criticizes. The fact is that criticizing is easier than doing, I know this from my own experience. manual control is also for this reason, no one does anything, but there is no one to replace. I hope you agree with me now.

[saha6052]

In Singapur, there is someone to "do", but in Russia, no? -Well, well, this is the situation of moronic despotism (the cap of external influences is an illusion), it is necessary to "work" for the bald stuffed animal to become irreplaceable. Stalin loved the phrase: it does not matter how they vote, it is important, how they count. This is the aerobatics of subversive operations: a kleptocracy of suicides has gathered, and there is no one to replace, well, there is no one to replace thieves in Russia7 is too much, only THIS "reserve" is enough.

[saha6052]

Yes, there are no competitors, but at the meeting with Zhirik (in fact, with his own clown) he did not appear for the debate, why? -Not disregard for the electorate, i.e., his marginal supporters, there is no desire to strain, people gobble up any rudeness, such is the "irreplaceable" , and if -Brenan comes to the debate? -imagine: what Trump cards he will lay out: I dug the Earth on a bulldozer and thought-Putin-Kozyrev.

[goose]

A bipartisan system in the USA - the population does not like both, but ... there is no choice, the campaign is conducted in such a way that the voter cannot even think of a third.

[Dart2027]

Both parties receive orders from one center.

[Civil]

Quote: Normal

Quote: DV69

What did Putin steal?

Power. The right to choose.

CONSTITUTION OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION

Section One. Key Points

Chapter 1. Fundamentals of the constitutional system

Article 3

1. The holder of sovereignty and sole source of power in the Russian Federation is its multinational people.

2. The people exercise their power directlyas well as through public authorities and local authorities self.

3.The highest direct expression of people's power are referendum and free elections.

4.No one may usurp power in the Russian Federation. The seizure of power or the appropriation of power is prosecuted by federal law.

www.constitution.ru/10003000/10003000-3.htm

That is, Putin is to blame, but not us))) all the Dartanyans, but the Rishilles GDP)))
if you’ve been taken, for example, from a mobile phone near your house, you’re probably also silent

[Normal]

Quote: Civil

That is, Putin is to blame, but not us))) all the Dartanyans, but the Rishilles GDP)))
if you’ve been taken, for example, from a mobile phone near your house, you’re probably also silent

Wrong address.

I am a supporter of street protests, an active political position and have never hidden this.

[DV69]

Quote: Normal

I am a supporter of street protests, an active political position and have never hidden this.

And whom do you see as the head of state?

[DV69]

[quote = DV69] [quote = Normal]

I am a supporter of street protest, an active political position and never hid it. [/ Quote]

So we talked. There are no answers to any particular question. Only cons. Not even interesting.

[Normal]

Quote: DV69

There are no answers to any particular question. Only cons. Not even interesting.

There are answers.
There are no minuses (I do not put minuses to comments, only to articles).
Not interesting - with you too.

[DV69]

Quote: Normal

[
There are answers.
There are no minuses (I do not put minuses to comments, only to articles).
Not interesting - with you too.

Well, do not bet and do not bet.
And I already see about the answers.

[saha6052]

And from your arguments, the spirit intercepts, but loyalty is still not patriotism and not even common sense: what did Putin steal? (Didn’t steal anything, it was stolen by him himself) but even within your logic: what was stolen: Stalin.Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Gorbachev? -You find it later, when-then becomes, now.

[Normal]

Quote: DV69

And whom do you see as the head of state?

How do you, pro-government obazhateli GDP tired of these questions How many times can I answer you? Do the fantasies themselves lack?

Well, if so, then please

Quote: Normal

SU February 2, 2014 00:26 | Hanging billions for Ukraine

Quote: Cynic

You are not happy with GDP, name your candidate.

Yeah tired i already repeat

Well, about the names ... I can tell you not one or two.
Putin's Companions:
Shoigu, Lavrov, Stepashin, Ivanov. Maintaining course in the general direction and removing particularly snickering close ones.
Governors:
Anatoly Artamonov - Kaluga region, Evgeny Savchenko - Belgorod region. Strong business executives who have proven their professional competence and ability to manage the economy.
Generals:
Yuri Baluevsky, Vladimir Kolokoltsev. The completion of high-profile cases, the destruction of corruption, the planting of thieves.
Athletes:
Fedor Emelianenko, Nikolay Valuev. Why not? We now have a judoka as president, and a very mediocre one. And here is the Great Fighter and "The Last Emperor" with tremendous charisma, faith in his soul and tremendous authority among athletes not only in the country, but also in the world, Emelianenko. Yes, and Valuev is also not a boy, and everything (oddly enough) is all right with his head.

Well, I think enough .... even without representatives of opponents of GDP policy and opposition.

[DV69]

Quote: Normal

Quote: DV69

And whom do you see as the head of state?

How do you, pro-government obazhateli GDP tired of these questions How many times can I answer you? Do the fantasies themselves lack?

Well, if so, then please

Quote: Normal

SU February 2, 2014 00:26 | Hanging billions for Ukraine

Quote: Cynic

You are not happy with GDP, name your candidate.

Yeah tired i already repeat

Well, about the names ... I can tell you not one or two.
Putin's Companions:
Shoigu, Lavrov, Stepashin, Ivanov. Maintaining course in the general direction and removing particularly snickering close ones.
Governors:
Anatoly Artamonov - Kaluga region, Evgeny Savchenko - Belgorod region. Strong business executives who have proven their professional competence and ability to manage the economy.
Generals:
Yuri Baluevsky, Vladimir Kolokoltsev. The completion of high-profile cases, the destruction of corruption, the planting of thieves.
Athletes:
Fedor Emelianenko, Nikolay Valuev. Why not? We now have a judoka as president, and a very mediocre one. And here is the Great Fighter and "The Last Emperor" with tremendous charisma, faith in his soul and tremendous authority among athletes not only in the country, but also in the world, Emelianenko. Yes, and Valuev is also not a boy, and everything (oddly enough) is all right with his head.

Well, I think enough .... even without representatives of opponents of GDP policy and opposition.

Great, write a program in which you will reasonably tell how you see the further development of the state; create an initiative group; nominate one of the people you name for president.
Why not. I don’t see anything bad in such a development of events. I think so many citizens of the country would have supported you.

[Normal]

Quote: DV69

Great, write a program in which you will reasonably tell how you see the further development of the state; create an initiative group; nominate one of the people you name for president.
Why not. I don’t see anything bad in such a development of events. I think so many citizens of the country would have supported you.

As I understand it, what programs do you have on hand that went to the first elections of GDP and DAM?
Call you the initiative group that nominated Putin for president, or do you know?

[kyznets]

As you, tired, lovers of street protests. I will not blame it for being paid for, there are, among you, sure, ideological ones. But over the past twenty-nine years, Putin has been raising, building, building and JOINING something. And you and people like you are only engaged in demagogy and destruction. What can you offer in return for the existing Putin's domestic and foreign policy? Universal (European) values? The collapse of the country, which Yeltsin did not bring to the end? A place under the American and West European boot? You don’t even have your own program for building Russia, all pro-Western notes. Such as you have already built one Ukraine with the Maidan and the ghouls in power.

[vzhzh]

who prevents liberals and democrats from the rest of the "honest" leaders to fight not to bellow and lie to the people.?

[b-metro]

And what did Putin steal "

Power. The right to choose.
Section One. Key Points

Chapter 1. Fundamentals of the constitutional system

Article 3

1. The holder of sovereignty and sole source of power in the Russian Federation is its multinational people.

2. The people exercise their power directlyas well as through public authorities and local authorities self.

3.The highest direct expression of people's power are referendum and free elections.

4.No one may usurp power in the Russian Federation. The seizure of power or the appropriation of power is prosecuted by federal law.
,

DEMOGUY

[Normal]

Quote: b-metro

DEMOGUY

Baselessly.

The right to choose is not recognized by the Government and pro-government.
For them, power can only belong to GDP and not to anyone else. All who do not think so are subjected to defamation.

Or maybe you consider the Constitution of the Russian Federation as demagogy?
Or can you name at least a couple - three referenda for Putin’s rule?

[DV69]

Quote: Normal

Quote: b-metro

DEMOGUY

Baselessly.

The right to choose is not recognized by the Government and pro-government.
For them, power can only belong to GDP and not to anyone else. All who do not think so are subjected to defamation.

Or maybe you consider the Constitution of the Russian Federation as demagogy?
Or can you name at least a couple - three referenda for Putin’s rule?

Sorry. and where did you find in the constitution that the president should be elected in a referendum?

[Normal]

Quote: DV69

Sorry. and where did you find in the constitution that the president should be elected in a referendum?

I forgive you. And where did you find the statement that the President should be elected by referendum under the Constitution?

Quote: Normal

3.The highest direct expression of people's power are referendum and free elections

Quote: Normal

Or can you name at least a couple - three referenda for Putin’s rule?

[DV69]

Quote: Normal

Quote: Normal

3.The highest direct expression of people's power are referendum and free elections

Quote: Normal

Or can you name at least a couple - three referenda for Putin’s rule?

And who should take the initiative to hold a referendum? Also Putin? Something I did not hear that someone would suggest holding a referendum and Putin would not let it be done.

[Normal]

Quote: DV69

And who should take the initiative to hold a referendum?

...

Referendum initiative. Referendum

Chapter 2. The referendum initiative. Referendum

14 Article. Referendum initiative
1. The referendum initiative belongs to:
1) at least two million citizens of the Russian Federation entitled to participate in a referendum, provided that no more than 50 thousand of them reside in the territory of one subject of the Russian Federation or in aggregate outside the territory of the Russian Federation;
2) to the Constitutional Assembly - in the case provided for in subsection 3 (135) of the Constitution of the Russian Federation;
3) to federal bodies of state power - in cases provided for by the international treaty of the Russian Federation and this Federal Constitutional Law.
2. The initiative to hold a referendum owned by citizens of the Russian Federation in accordance with paragraph 1 of part 1 of this article cannot be put forward during an election campaign conducted simultaneously throughout the territory of the Russian Federation on the basis of a decision of an authorized federal body, as well as in the event that a referendum occurs for the last year of the powers of the President of the Russian Federation, the State Duma of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation.

base.garant.ru/12135919/2/#block_200

Quote: DV69

Something I did not hear that someone would propose a referendum

If you have not heard something, then this does not mean that this was not.

Attempted referendum against WTO accession [edit | edit wiki text]
On April 4, 2012, a meeting of the Regional Subgroup of the Initiative Group for the Referendum on Russia's Accession to the WTO from the subject of the Russian Federation, the city of Moscow, was held at the Chamber of Commerce and Industry of the Russian Federation [37]. The meeting was attended by a number of political figures: Konstantin Babkin - the leader of the Party of the Affair, Andrey Tychinin, Nikolai Starikov - a member of the Central Council of the Trade Union of Citizens of Russia, Yuri Boldyrev, Andrey Parshev, Maxim Kalashnikov, Yuri Krupnov, Mikhail Delyagin - party chairman Homeland: common sense ”, experts of the WTO-Inform Independent Analytical Center and many others. etc., in total more than 300 people, the event was ignored by all state media, and was covered only by the Internet TV channel Neyromir-TV [38]. April 13, the Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation refused to hold a referendum

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D

1%80%D1%8B_%D0%BE_%D0%B2%D1%81%D1%82%D1%83%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8_%

D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%B2%D0%BE_%D0%92%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B8%

D1%80%D0%BD%D1%83%D1%8E_%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%83%D1%8E_%D0%BE%

D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8E#.D0.9F.D0.BE.D0.BF.D

1.8B.D1.82.D0.BA.D0.B0_.D0.BF.D1.80.D0.BE.D0.B2.D0.B5.D0.B4.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.B8.D1

.8F_.D1.80.D0.B5.D1.84.D0.B5.D1.80.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.B4.D1.83.D0.BC.D0.B0_.D0.BF.D1

.80.D0.BE.D1.82.D0.B8.D0.B2_.D0.B2.D1.81.D1.82.D1.83.D0.BF.D0.BB.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.

B8.D1.8F_.D0.B2_.D0.92.D0.A2.D0.9E

Quote: DV69

and Putin did not allow it to be done.

Do not turn on Dr. Fool. GDP has someone to do it, and you know it

[DMB-88]

Quote: DV69

And who should take the initiative to hold a referendum?

Do you argue about the constitution that American advisers wrote for the Eltsin RF?

[FREGATENKAPITAN]

The idea of ​​a communist society is not a utopia, it is the Bible ........ the universal blessing of the 10 commandments ....... Communism has a future! Not now .... but in 50, 100 years it will be so!

[Penzyac]

Quote: Dart2027

The whole USSR rested on one man - Stalin. Since his death (and most likely murder), gradual degradation began. The very idea of ​​creating a communist society is utopia.

Actually, it was not Stalin who created the USSR; the Secretary of the Central Committee was then just a secretary, the head of the technical apparatus of the Central Committee, and nothing more.
The communist idea is not at all a utopia, just an attempt at practical implementation is incredibly premature (communism will be possible only when people are almost completely excluded from the process of mass creation of the necessary material goods, with the exception of only its creative component, that is, as a result of prolonged technical progress, even now very far away), and the literal dogmatic version is really not a viable utopia. Therefore, Lenin himself renounced it, replacing military communism with NEP (the current China followed the same path), but there are their own, other "ravines".
Stalin tried at the level of his own understanding to return as much as possible, namely, to the original, premature and, therefore, utopian version of communism, while simultaneously preparing a mine for the party policy (nomenclature) for subsequent gradual degradation of leadership at all levels (each next weaker than the previous one) . In fact, the model of the state created by Stalin is viable only under the leadership of strong leaders, which contradicts the nomenclature principle of averaging.
By the way, a similar personnel policy has been pursued since 1991. they have the United States, only they have two "nomenklatura" (Republicans and Democrats), almost no different from each other, the result is obvious, the collapse is already looming, although their ideology is opposite to communism.

[gunya]

Respected PenzyacBefore stating the following:
"Stalin tried, at the level of his own understanding, as much as possible, to return, namely, to the original, premature and, therefore, utopian version of communism, at the same time preparing a mine in the form of personnel policy in the party (nomenklatura) for the subsequent gradual degradation of leadership at all levels (each next is weaker than the previous In fact, the model of the state created by Stalin is viable only under the leadership of strong leaders, which contradicts the nomenclature principle of averaging. "
Check out his work: "Problems of Peace and Socialism".

[saha6052]

It was also lacking to “read” Stalin, “the problems of the world, and even“ socialism? ”- and what relation does Stalin have to socialism? Lenin understood and was in despair:“ the apparatus is shit, decrees are shit, we are not running the apparatus, but the apparatus controls us! "- and what did the Stalin and the Clique of impostors, specialists in the execution of party congresses, do? - Strengthening the already Absolute Bureaucracy, and in the future Absolute Corruption as a national idea, on which the regime is based today and only incalculable human and material resources "saved" the country from shame and oblivion, but they did not save it and could not save it because the bureaucratic model is a model of self-destruction, the substitution of formalism for meanings: it was smooth on paper, but they forgot about OURRIES ... "developed masturbation "named after Stalin, on the sand (nonsense and fear) Temples are not built, but the long-suffering Spitak is being built.

[Victor Demchenko]

"developed masturbation" named after Stalin, on the sand (nonsense and fear) Temples are not built, but the long-suffering Spitak is being built.
I was in Spitak and Leninakan, and so I’ll tell you: in Leninakan ONE building-16-storey hotel stood, and that’s only because the superintendent who built it did NOT steal cement, but stupidly followed the norms of the SNiP of the USSR, for which he was imprisoned in 1987, and released in 1989 for lack of corpus delicti! and I also saw HOW the humanitarian aid was distributed so in general a separate song with local flavor!

[work67]

I do not consider degradation 50-60-70 years.

[tomket]

Quote: Dart2027

The whole USSR rested on one man - Stalin.

Sorry, the USSR arose long before the rise of Stalin. And Stalin was for a long time only one of many. And after the death of Stalin, the USSR did not collapse right away like a house of cards.

[Dart2027]

Quote: tomket

The USSR arose long before the rise of Stalin

Before the rise of Stalin, it was, to put it mildly, not the most effective system.

Quote: tomket

USSR did not collapse immediately

It did not fall apart, but immediately began to degrade.

[saha6052]

Do you know what a mobilization model is and why it is good? I’ll explain right away: A spider weaves Web and catches flies, wraps a fly in a web of bureaucracy, punctures, injects saliva into it (the absurd poison with sugar idiocy), digests, sucks from it the content (being-soul) and throws the cover- popping about anything on the forums. Mobilization sucks the forces of the people, even such as the Soviet, exterminates passionarity because first of all, the best people (breed) are killed and destroyed, and along the way, the problem of stability for the hegemony of thieves, fools and traitors (triumph of Seriousness) is solved, passionarity is removed, and marginality has been given by the camp rations, it’s also happy: slaves praise the Executioner! - because he postponed the execution until the 91st year. if only no one lived humanly, and he was not a man.

[Dart2027]

And now you can do the same, but in a more understandable language.
A mobilization economy is an economy whose resources are concentrated and used to counter threats to the country's existence as an integrated system. If I understood correctly, then Stalin in the 30s did not need to prepare for the upcoming war? Are you talking about this?

[saha6052]

I can do this and that, and in general, for everyone, it is worth changing the level and degree a little, I understand your provocation and I am grateful for the question and attention, they do not indulge me. I hope you understand the difference between the Left project (humanitarian trend) and empire (absolutism , metropolis and periphery). In order to adequately and adequately position the question, it is necessary to observe the Problem Conditions so as not to speak different languages ​​within the framework of Russian .-------------- "" "If I understood correctly , then Stalin in the 30s did not need to prepare for the upcoming war? Are you talking about that? "- I mean everything, including THIS! -In fact, the paradigm and doctrines of the Left Project, this is not a task of war and peace, but -Alternative world for Vida-sen kazakhsha belesemba? -And THIS is his main weapon: to remove contradictions within the community with a creative Program and, as an example, to attract allies close, first mentally and ideologically, and then all those who were "late" to the Train to the future- that's where the great Lenin bent his line, but he was the only one like him, and this is colossal The risk for the project and it was confirmed with the Stalinist-bureaucratic Reaction. Where, this pygmy Thought was to take on the Left project? -if even Lenin did not have a clear vision, but only the famous, Napoleonic: we will get involved in a fight, and the battle will show who is there who? Lenin could afford the Tyka method, and the Stalinist Clique did not take the risk and back into the rut of the empire, and himself as a pseudo-monarch ("red") - he is so Red that there is no brown (radish). to the point: leveling, total proletarization of the country and, above all, of the bureaucracy itself, in order to grow the class of Compradors who avenge their country for Fear and Demon Rule, vertical dynamics for marginality, the leader's hatred of the aristocracy and, in general, passionarity as a fundamental threat to impostors. You might think, dear, I'm not trying to offend you in vain, that if Lenin lived to see "Cold Summer-53rd, would we have the same thing? -War would simply not be, where is Hitler against Lenin and his Guards? The world's left-wing project would gain such strength that fascism would sit quietly like a pig in a sack, and if it took the risk of aggression, it would be crushed in its lair, by its own people - if even this Ghoul-traitor of the Revolution, the gravedigger of the Bolsheviks, the party and the revolutionary dream of justice and free Labor - helped by American scientists, English aristocrats and the best forces of mankind, then one can imagine what kind of support the great Lenin would have in the world. Today we would not slurp a grudge of hypocrisy and betrayal on Parashenkov's fields of imperial idiocy.

[Dart2027]

Quote: saha6052

there was no need for Hitler against Lenin and his Guard? The left-wing project in the world would gain such strength that fascism would sit quietly like a pig in a bag, and if it risked aggression, it would be crushed in its den by its own people

Fascism was created by the special services of England, France and the USA as an instrument of the struggle against the Stalinist USSR. But the Lenin Guard obviously means all kinds of Trotsky and others like them?

Quote: saha6052

one can imagine: what kind of support would great Lenin have in the world

This support was well paid from the budget of the USSR - Stalin paid and helped him.

Quote: saha6052

Left-wing project (humanitarian trend) and empire (absolutism, metropolis and periphery)

If we had not become an empire, we would have become a colony.

Quote: saha6052

Lenin could afford a method-poke

The head of state acts by the method of poking - to be stunned.

[saha6052]

At first I liked you - intelligence, tolerance for the arguments of the opponent is not a sign of a Stalinist (a believer and offended by an attempt on the sacred meanings of a pagan, because according to the "idea" they denied Christianity and religion in general and replaced the ersatz religion into a paranoid and a bandit), but very loving people as a statistical material. Yes, thank you for not leaving the conversation. The first paragraph - I do not like the offensive tone (this is not YOUR style) - conspiracy is not the dominant trend in the development of the species, but one of the elements: the public sphere: science, education, art, economics, etc. these are billions of people and the corresponding Potential, and conspiracy theology, scope and quality of the material depending on the basic principles of the existence of communities (above indicated) on the omnipotence of subversive operations, as a rule, one who is not confident in his analytical abilities and ability to withstand manipulation of consciousness presses. We say -fascism, implying -nationalism turning into Nazism-a game of elites to lower, simplify, discredit civilizational principles of existence, approved even by Christianity: there is no Hellenic and Jewish, but there is a Man, i.e. dear, not everything is so simple here that it could be attributed to secret conspiracies, which, if not positioned, but are calculated according to development trends and destruction-brains for what? If all sorts of Lenin-Trotsky swineherds are for you? -who would Stalin be without them? -and I don’t know and no one would have known and never. More specifically, please: Bartini, Pontecorvo, Kim Philby, is this such a Caliber that Stalin and his inferiors paid? -You don’t love people, but in vain, and vulgar materialism badly characterizes the Author of the maxim- except for venality, does nothing in the world work? - this is the logic of a supermarket seller. - "If we had not become an empire, we would have turned into a colony." and made a pseudo-empire a colony of the west because Nonsense is a game of total destruction of human material: the cynicism and greed of some and the apathy and amoralism of others, we have lost the struggle for the Human to the West and the East, so they wipe their feet on us. The colony is not so much a lag in the technical trend as in the humanitarian one. defining development, anti-selection could not pass without a trace for the nation and threw the pseudo-empire on the periphery of the historical perspective. To win, you need to play your own Games and preferably New, and not grovelingly borrow stale goods and rotten "ideas." the state acts at random - to be stunned. "

[Dart2027]

Quote: saha6052

The first paragraph - I do not like the insulting tone (this is not your style) - conspirology is not the dominant trend in the development of the species, but one of the elements: the public sphere: science, education, art, economics

Until the invasion of France, all Hitler’s actions received the approval of the heads of England, France and the United States. This is not conspiracy thesis and not insult, but a fact. Either they were fools, which is unlikely, or they were counting on something.

Quote: saha6052

If all sorts of Lenin-Trotsky swineherds are for you? -What would Stalin be without them?

Lenin was an ideologist, not a technologist. Trotsky is the brother-in-law of one of the bigwigs from Will Street, and he traveled to Russia on a steamboat that set off almost under the personal control of the US president, which, to put it mildly, is strange for a revolutionary.

Quote: saha6052

More specifically, please: Bartini, Pontecorvo, Kim Philby is this Caliber paid by Stalin and his peers

I mean the help received by the USSR in carrying out industrialization. There was a clean business here - Stalin paid, foreigners built. The Cambridge Five and, in general, individual idealists, could not have a real impact on the situation.

Quote: saha6052

Marxism suffered from linearity and schematism, although it positioned itself as dialectics, but real dialectics is the method of typing (creativity and improvisation) in response to the hyper-plasticity of Matter. Therefore, I am not "stunned" by Lenin's creativity, but quite the opposite. Gosplan plans

The creation of communism requires a new person - I have already written about this more than once. Until this new person appears, all beautiful theories remain theories. Stalin built the system based on the realities of human nature, but with its amendments, it turned out to be too idealized.
As for planning, any large-scale economy is based on planning, the other thing is that you need to be able to plan, and experiments are set up not over the whole country, but over small areas in order to see and control. The poke method is unacceptable in the scale of the country's development.

[goose]

And I grew up even during the USSR, and felt that I could break through due to personal qualities. After the collapse of the USSR, there was very little place where you can realize yourself (especially in science), and where it remains, little depends on personal qualities.
At the same time, there were no full-day kindergartens, normal schools, pioneer camps and circles for children, which would greatly help to do business in the presence of free time.
In addition to trade and those who serve it (lawyers, economists, accountants, security guards) - there are no prospects.

Do you think that ET is better than the USSR, only on the basis that they were able to buy an iPod? Yes, you just use the results of the technical revolution (as well as the Nigerians, Arabs, Papuans, Americans), and the current situation on oil. Let me remind you that in a certain period of the existence of the USSR, oil was not extracted enough even for its needs.

[CALL.]

Gorbachev was stupid like a “gray gelding”, as one Gogolevsky hero of the comedy “The Inspector General” said about a city man. What he did, I can’t choose another word for his actions, he did not understand what consequences his actions would lead to.

Here N. Leonov is trying to shield the KGB, which has missed the introduction of an agent into the top leadership of the USSR. After all, before that, Gorbachev was the first secretary of the Stavropol regional committee of the CPSU. Gorbachev, Yakovlev, Shevardnadze, Kryuchkov, Yeltsin "young reformers" and others, all were members of the same team and each played his own role, which was assigned to them by their puppeteers, who coordinated the entire party from one center.

[rodevaan]

Quote: Dart2027

The very idea of ​​creating a communist society is utopia.

- This is NOT utopia. It’s just that the society in which we live in the 21st century, around the world, in fact, has remained a large herd of wild animals, where not human values, but animal instincts dominate. Modern man is hung up with all kinds of iPhones, computers, and other achievements of the scientific and technological revolution, but inside and in essence he has remained a wild monkey living by instinct, and not by human moral principles. I do not speak for everyone, I speak only of the vast majority. Communism and socialism cannot be built in such an immature society for this. True communism and socialism is a much greater stage in the moral development of society, to which the world has not and will go for centuries. Indeed, grandfather Lenin also once wrote that one of the main tasks of a socialist society is - EDUCATION OF A HUMAN! - Gold words! Society did not have time to educate for communism. After Lenin and Stalin, there was no leader in the country who could correctly continue the line of socialist development of Russian and Soviet society. The most vivid evidence of this is the dense 90s, when the post-Soviet society, having thrown off the guise of Soviet decency, plunged into the dense chaos of lawlessness, greed, cruelty and overnight turned into a herd of primitive savages, where only one rule prevailed - the rule of the strong, as in a herd of wild animals . Is not it? So. Society has not grown to a higher stage of development.
Another example from there is that the Russians in the USSR, for 70 years, tried by all means to drag into the civilization, into the industrial and moral development of the dense, Central Asian peoples living in the early Middle Ages. But 70 years is an insignificant period in order to do such a titanic work on breaking and progressive modern development of those backward peoples who lived for thousands of years before the USSR clan communities and ran around the desert with sheep and caravans. As a result, the USSR fell, and the peoples of Central Asia naturally returned to their original existence.

Socialism is not a utopia, it is a higher moral stage in the development of society, to which we have not yet grown, unfortunately. And the example of the USSR showed it well and clearly.

[Dart2027]

Quote: rodevaan

Socialism is not a utopia, it is a higher moral stage in the development of society, to which we have not yet grown, unfortunately

That is precisely why utopia is. Any construction (at least at home, at least a ship, at least society) is impossible without the material from which it will be built. Perhaps someday they will build it, but not now.

[rodevaan]

Quote: Dart2027

Quote: rodevaan

Socialism is not a utopia, it is a higher moral stage in the development of society, to which we have not yet grown, unfortunately

That is precisely why utopia is. Any construction (at least at home, at least a ship, at least society) is impossible without the material from which it will be built. Perhaps someday they will build it, but not now.

- In general, utopia is a pipe dream. And in my post I said that socialism and communism is not a pipe dream, just to make this a reality, we need certain circumstances, the most important of which is a higher moral and intellectual level of development of society. Therefore, this is by no means a utopia.

[Victor Demchenko]

the most important of which is a higher moral and intellectual level of development of society
exactly! from this place and in more detail! especially about education, the development of science and the science city of Skolkovo, led by the All-Russian thief in law Chubais ... and in light of the new decisions of our beloved Minobra who decided that we have too many teachers in the country and that doctors' diplomas are sold in 1 honey. ..

[Dart2027]

Quote: rodevaan

higher moral and intellectual level of development of society

Not society, but man as a biological species. In the foreseeable future - this is impossible.

[saha6052]

"In the foreseeable future - this is impossible." - to be correct, it is necessary to slightly explain - "foreseeable" for whom? - this is the most foreseeable so different, both in the distance and in depth.

[Dart2027]

Quote: saha6052

this is the most visible so different, both in the distance and in depth

Until a way is found to make a change in the genetics of mankind, or if this change does not happen in an evolutionary way. That is, in the next millennia, you can not wait.

[saha6052]

But this text, a completely different level of thinking, which, nevertheless, contradicts itself: oce Kuma tilki, you and I and people, the rest are fools, I don’t think there are a great many intelligent and adequate people to the Task, but they are atomic (a thing in itself ) -Social project is an elite problem, not a popular one: the technology of organization is changing, and already the System of relations is changing -mass and there is no need to assign a function to the ass-Eyes is a Gift that cannot be taught, but taken for granted, a genius, often not obvious - the creator of Culture, and not a mass of performers adapting to the environment and you, this is more understandable than others. Don't confuse people: the problems are not in morality (this is a religious style, and a person has outgrown religion and even formalized systems of control Problems in conscientious Knowledge (creative, program-design consciousness) -Lenin poured "new wine" into old wineskins and the System transformed romantics into archaic conservatives (well, those who did not have time to kill or ran out of patrons). It seems that Hesiod hasmaxim: the epochs of Heroes end the epochs of scum because Dialectics, brother: not a single Hero wants his own fate for his descendants, but wants them to live "like people" and for him, too! -And they-lived, and how! -That just did not become people and could not become since People are not raised in pigsties and zoos.

[Victor Demchenko]

Sasha, but in my opinion you’re just a fucker and woodpecker from the Fashigton liberals!

[saha6052]

Victor, do not hesitate to offend me, I have heard enough of everyone in my long life, but notice the difference in posts even with Dart? Write more substantiated, more reasoning, argue your position, and do not concentrate on feelings, we are not girls from the Smolny Institute, but the last argument I was reminded of an episode from "The Eternal Call": you are blind, you are blind, you will wake up one day, but there is no Soviet power ...! "- yeah, only you and its defender, the Gestapo is the defender of a disadvantaged people ... not only. but and above all _the horde of believers atheists ... the circus is free.

[koshh]

Quote: Dart2027

The very idea of ​​creating a communist society is utopia.

A plus. Under Stalin, military socialism was built. Only military methods could save that society and order. Build communism by 1980 Khrushchev promised. A mediocre organized planned economy, without the possibility of any competition in the economy, without the ability for a worker and a peasant to earn money, receive a decent salary for his work, all this and many more other points led to the collapse of the illusory dream of a communist society. And thank God!

[saha6052]

Thank God? -Written with a capital letter. Dreams are not "illusory" do not happen. You wanted to say-hallucinations, but hurried to say and it turned out "as always" -illusions appear from an influx of feelings, and -hallucinations from a sharp blow to the head with a heavy and dull the subject, when a person does not fully understand what he wants: communism or masturbation? You said one word that is worth the whole post-Mediocrity, this is not cured. We believed that if you collect a thousand idiots in an institution, then this will be about- one genius! -not a ride and a thousand idiots stayed with them, the status of Mind does not add, but rather takes away the latter.

[Victor Demchenko]

why are you a woodpecker? to the fact that even now a trip to the clinic flies into rubles for an ordinary resident of the country? or the fact that children cannot learn with brains? or the fact that our children have ceased to understand what they are taught and leave school even without being able to write correctly? or the fact that in medical colleges (ugh! the word is stupid) it is forbidden to deduct for academic failure and demand to provide all the preferences for the "successful" completion of the above! and then what kind of specialist will be? for me so even though it is called a pot, I personally am notorious "equalization" soviet fed up, BUT! then, with a normal life expectancy, an ordinary pensioner had the opportunity once a year to safely go to the sea, now I do not have that opportunity, although I have 38 years of continuous work experience (total 41) and when I retired I had an average salary of 32 thousand rubles, and the pension was appointed 7500 and it is no longer possible by law! here's the fruits of crap! Moreover, I did not describe myself when I wrote appointed!

[bda]

Interface (2) RU Today, 15:49 ↑

... from the very beginning was unviable



Prove it. fellow

The collapse of the USSR is not a phenomenon in itself.
This is a continuation of the process that began in 1917 under the name "Collapse of Russia / Russian Empire /"
Such great empires (Roman, Byzantine, Russian, etc.) can go to their ruin for centuries (which, in fact, was), and for salvation it is important here to systematically reverse the negative trend. Stalin managed to turn the situation in a positive direction, but ... with his departure, the collapse trend continued, because positive changes did not become systemic.
Now, too, there are hints of positive changes, but, again - they do not have a solid comprehensive civilizational base.
By the way, there are also positive examples with empires: the one mentioned here, China - fell apart almost to the ground more than once, but gathered again, based on its centuries-old practiced civilizational Buddhist-Confucian tradition.

[Interface]

China - collapsed almost to the ground more than once, but gathered again, based on its centuries-old worked out civilizational Buddhist-Confucian base.

This is true. But, in the case of Russia, it is impossible to believe people by force in Orthodoxy. As a result, there is hidden anger among citizens.
People can only be united by political convictions. As in the USSR. And then to assert the friendship of peoples, the "free market", or to baptize Russia again, I don't know there))

[Venier]

But, in the case of Russia, it is impossible to believe people by force in Orthodoxy.

That's it. According to the Russian proverb: a slave is not a pilgrim.

[Penzyac]

Quote: Interface

China - collapsed almost to the ground more than once, but gathered again, based on its centuries-old worked out civilizational Buddhist-Confucian base.

This is true. But, in the case of Russia, it is impossible to believe people by force in Orthodoxy. As a result, there is hidden anger among citizens.
People can only be united by political convictions. As in the USSR. And then to assert the friendship of peoples, the "free market", or to baptize Russia again, I don't know there))

The main thing is not to lie to the people. The massive lies of those in power at all levels destroyed, in due time, the Republic of Ingushetia and the USSR. When a leader pushes the righteous ideas to the masses, which himself and (or) his circle do not adhere to, it ruins not only his reputation, but also the beautiful ideas he promotes.

[saha6052]

Well, you see: there are also sane people - death begins with nonsense, and one's own nonsense can be so cool that one wants to believe himself (art, especially real-omnipotent). For example, Stalin believed that he was a genius, although wonderful knew his own worth and hated very much those who knew this "price" --- also, and when Hitler drove him into revaluation, he fell into a stupor: I - and fucked up the great state created by Lenin? - this is not tolerable. I think that he never recovered from the knockout inflicted by Hitler and even the Victory did not change anything in his notorious soul. All his life, he appeared, and did not live, imitated the emperor, spoke of himself in the third person, which means he followed his Pose from the outside even ostentatious asceticism told the aborigines - why luxury to the one who owns everything? - it seems to me: The theater (of absurdity) has lost a lot in his face and, of course, this reactionary has never been a communist or revolutionary.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Interface

As a result, latent anger among citizens

And you are in vain. They do not force anyone to pray against their will (if you want, believe in Christ, if you want to be an atheist, if you want, accept Islam), so there is no place for hidden anger. But there is open malice - and it is expressed by the same people who hate Soviet ideology. Actually, these people hate any idea that can unite Russians, whether it be communism, Orthodoxy, the defense of their homeland, but at least that.
In general, as in the picture.

[bda]

Dart2027 RU Today, 18:39 AM ↑

Quote: Interface
As a result, latent anger among citizens

And you are in vain. They do not force anyone to pray against their will (if you want, believe in Christ, if you want to be an atheist, if you want, accept Islam), so there is no place for hidden anger. But there is open malice - and it is expressed by the same people who hate Soviet ideology

This open malice to Orthodoxy is expressed primarily by those who hate our country, our people and our entire civilization (which even Western scholars recognize precisely as a separate "Russian-Orthodox civilization").
There is no such hatred for "Negro-African" (without any racism-political correctness), as well as for some other civilizations.
We are hated because we are a potential geopolitical and civilizational competitor that has repeatedly thwarted plans for world domination. We are a real and viable alternative to the world order that is imposed on us under the slogan of a "consumer society"!
This fact is, first of all, for some "our" kind of "smart guys" who consider Orthodoxy to be the lot of stupid, backward, and weak: if our enemies throw all their strength into the fight against this, it means in this one of ours "Russian Orthodox civilization "has such a force that they really fear!

[Dart2027]

That's what I'm talking about.

[bda]

it is impossible to believe people by force in Orthodoxy. As a result, there is hidden anger among citizens.
People can be united only by political convictions.

It is impossible to believe in anything in the world - this is a fact.
And political convictions ... - You are right - they can unite people (and this has happened many times), but ... politics is always a changeable thing. It can unite people "here and now".
For example: "The peasants are allies of the proletarians! And together they will beat the bourgeoisie and the landlords!" - all right, they are all together, but here comes ... tomorrow.
And tomorrow: "The peasants are small proprietors! All to fight against the vestiges of private ownership!" - and millions of unfortunate people who were burdened during the NEP years, who were a cow, and who a pair of horses, went to Siberia, beyond the Arctic Circle, to great construction sites, etc.
For unification "for centuries" it is precisely a civilizational basis that is needed. In Russia it was Orthodoxy. And not only the Orthodox understand this: if you read and listen to patriotic Muslims (for example, the level of the Supreme Mufti of Russia Talgat Tadzhuddin), they openly and without fear of pro-Saudi (read: "pro-American") Islamic extremists say that Russia is still holding on, before everything, based on the traditions of Orthodoxy - and only then everything else. (And Talgat-khazrat, by the way, is the only Sheikh-ul-Islam in Russia - not khukhra-mukhras in the entire Islamic world).
JV Stalin understood this too, precisely during the years of the Great Patriotic War, who turned his face to Orthodoxy, returned the patriarchate abolished by the "Westernizer" Peter I, and so on. (with the simultaneous prohibition of Uniatism and a general increase in pressure on Catholicism). Then, during the period of the "thaw" of the corn grower Khrushchev, "experts thought" that this was done only out of "momentary pragmatic considerations," but ... we know that the intensification of activities to strengthen Orthodoxy in the USSR continued after the Great War ( when the need for this, it seemed, could disappear). Moreover, for the first time in many centuries, preparations began for a new Ecumenical Council ... in Moscow.
But ... The leader died, namely Khrushchov, who licked the pro-Western pidrilligency with his plans for "communism by 1980", Orthodoxy began to interfere, which led to new persecutions, church closings, etc. (we see that this hmyr "distinguished himself" not only by donating Crimea to Ukraine, amnesty for Bandera, Vlasov and "forest brothers", but forcible Ukrainization of historical Novorossia as part of Ukraine).

By the way, I don’t know how anyone, but I don’t think that the USSR, with all its problems, was not viable in principle. It was made unviable by the binding exclusively to the communist postulates "imposed again from the West", the practical implementation of which (often without regard to reality) very often led to big problems and, in the end, led to the fact that even those who had to "lead the process" in the depths of their hearts began to understand that all this degenerates into hypocrisy, which they play for the sake of "maintaining access to the bins of the Motherland."

[the polar]

Quote: Daniel

Quote: Civil

CCCP died because:

... from the very beginning was unviable. The rest is comments.

The only question that arises after your comments is what is more in you: ignorance with stupidity or conceit

[Penzyac]

Quote: Daniel

Quote: Civil

CCCP died because:

... from the very beginning was unviable. The rest is comments.

Less to you precisely for this is your statement provocative in your incompetence.
It is relatively excusable only to young dropouts, primarily graduates of Ukrainian and Baltic schools of the last 10-15 years, who studied history from specific textbooks and watched equally specific TV.

[Vilnius]

I ruined the USSR! It was like this: painting the railway station. A young "couple" from SPga, asked to show the way, and even escort ... there. YEARS. They were gazettes. Half of the anti-Soviet newspapers, on the carriages, were overloaded with ME ... not a cross, not a star, no one would let me fall for collapse.

[Zhekson]

Singapore did not rise due to the fact that the authorities there were economic geeks, but because the Americans and the Japanese transferred their production there, practically turning Singapore into their backyard. And who will change their obedient vassals? Amerikosov and yuppy Singapore satisfied with the leadership.

[saag]

Quote: Zhekson

Singapore did not rise due to the fact that there is power - economic geeks

Singapore began to rise because Lee Kuan Yew began to imprison everyone for corruption, including his friends, I am still wondering why this progressive experience is not used in the Russian Federation, on the contrary, they give rise to such sacred phrases like “I don’t give up mine”? :-)

[FREGATENKAPITAN]

Exactly ... he was not viable at all ... at first they resisted the aggression of 14 countries plus the White Guard and all green things, defeated hunger and devastation ... being isolated, then created a powerful economy, defeated Nazi Germany with allies and Japan, created the first nuclear weapons the satellite and the first man in space ...... This just proved the opposite ...... Yes ... only the absence of reforms in the social, civil and party spheres and the obvious betrayal of part of the leadership led to the collapse of the Great State ... .....

[Victor Demchenko]

a clear betrayal of part of the leadership led to the collapse of the Great State ......
absolutely into the heart of gemahen!

[megapatriot]

traitor! The USSR is the most humane, richest and happiest state in the history of mankind. the great Russian people took under their wing incompetent neighbors, taught them to use fire, speak a clear language, read, write in clear letters, built them factories, factories and schools with hospitals, in short gave them everything they have. and these ungrateful creatures turned out to be traitors. but they will still regret their betrayal, when we restore the USSR to its former borders, they all will go to Siberia by echelons to plow permafrost. Glory to the USSR!

[Renat]

Regarding the fact that they bought us (roughly speaking) whom for sneakers and who for tampex, I agree. By and large, it was indeed you and I who did not defend the Union. Already it does not matter because of ignorance of misunderstanding. There is no excuse for the collapse of the empire of Good. If not the Union, then at least return that power to the kindness that we had. And fear, the same as respect for our country, is returning. We have been observing this over the past years.

[Azzzwer]

Quote: Renat

the kindness that we had.

under capitalism, this is not possible in principle!

[gunya]

Power and kindness will return when we abandon the "ideals" of the consumer society, when most of us adhere to the principle: "First think about MOTHERLAND, and then about yourself!"

[Interface]

There was no change of leadership.

Stalin and Khrushchev pursued a diametrically different economic and foreign policy.


If by the phrase "change of power" you mean elections, debates, confetti and porno-compromising materials, as in the United States, this does not mean that in a country in which there is no election of the head of state, power is irreplaceable.

China as an example. Deng Xiaoping pursued a different line of politics than his predecessors.
This is despite the fact that in China, the Soviet system of government agencies remained virtually unchanged.

What? Again irremovable power?

[igor.oldtiger]

do not offend people of that time! there was a referendum in 91, most of it voted to preserve the USSR! and then there were the Bialowieza Accords .... PEOPLE were simply thrown by a trinity of rulers!

[bda]

igor.oldtiger SU Today, 16:34 ↑

do not offend people of that time! there was a referendum in 91, most of it voted to preserve the USSR! and then there were the Bialowieza Accords .... PEOPLE were simply thrown by a trinity of rulers!

The people were thrown by a trinity of rulers. People swore and ... went to drink bitter. And this is not "insulting the people of that time" - it is rather self-criticism (there are too many of those who know this time not from newspapers like "Moskovsky Komsomolets" and not from "progressive" Internet portals).
And this is precisely what became the verdict of the USSR - if the people, who hitherto showed miracles of heroism and self-sacrifice, suddenly, one day, simply do not stand up to defend their country, but only sits and stares blankly at "Swan Lake" - then such a country can be saved only a miracle.
This time a miracle did not happen (atheists probably jinxed - convinced God that he was not there - that’s the result).

[saha6052]

But you don't need to touch God, he gave you little to lead you by the hand? Attention (Reason-given by the Creator, you need to focus on the Cause, not the body) -the people themselves did not show miracles of self-sacrifice, this is simply unnatural. .to. the instinct of self-preservation works, there are few passionaries in life (Heroes), and the herd must be mobilized by the state, and when the state strives for total monopoly, apathy, passivity and alienation of a person from his own destiny grows. Have you seen an animal in the Zoo? On the twentieth he has a "hunt" and how will it end, dialectic brother, as an instrument of aggression? -it ended with the fact that the Tiger, after the Iron Curtain, was eaten by jackals and Rats. And you say- "Miracle!" - A miracle that the Creator tolerates fools, maybe loves?

[goose]

Moscow is the center of clerical obscurantism, both Orthodox and Muslim.

[jaguar]

USSR DIED BECAUSE: I am always surprised by such knowledgeable people. So right away I can honestly admit that I don’t know the true culprits of the collapse other than the marked one, and he is clearly not alone. I was a witness to the events in Sumgayit in 88., until today, no matter how I tried to find out who organized it all ... but alas, not the organizers and financiers

[s1н7т]

Quote: Civil

CCCP died because:

Comrade Civil Marshal, you debated nonsense at the level of a schoolboy! And after all, there are people like you here, just a plus. And the Russian Federation will prosret.

[Civil]

Quote: c1n7

Quote: Civil

CCCP died because:

Comrade Civil Marshal, you debated nonsense at the level of a schoolboy! And after all, there are people like you here, just a plus. And the Russian Federation will prosret.

Quote: c1n7

Quote: Civil

CCCP died because:

Comrade Civil Marshal, you debated nonsense at the level of a schoolboy! And after all, there are people like you here, just a plus. And the Russian Federation will prosret.

No, your experience suggests that you must always fight for our country, each in its own place, not demanding from the country, but doing it for it. We are probably the country ourselves, and not how you are overgrown and ungrateful children of the country of the Soviets like you. If we SUCH (like the USSR) the country went to us, we probably would have decided everything differently. YOU about .... what our grandfathers left for you, YOU are one of the most vile generations of Russia.

[Venier]

CCCP died because:

Betrayal and betrayal again. Alas, this phenomenon is as old as the world.

[igor.oldtiger]

and you yourself lived under the Soviet Union in a competent age?

[gunya]

What do you want to say? I personally remember well everything from the post-war period.

[Deff]

Quote: Civil

! The USSR died because:
1. The people who inhabited him finger to finger did not hit in order to save their country, exchanged socialism for chewing gum, jeans and Coca-Cola.
2. Lying in society has become the norm.
3. There was no change of leadership.

You forget how Gorbachev launched the process of bourgeois aspirations and transformations, launched the cooperative economy, releasing thieves in law, speculators, nonsuns from factories and factories, flesh to the defense industry for legal thieves' freebies, it was then that the looting of production began, of course, many were not tempted to chew, but to quickly earn a living by starting training for thieves' redistribution not only by thieves, but also by the current leadership, who also did not lose their way, seeing the complete indifference of the country's leadership.
it was this process that set the stage and the electorate for all further thieves' lawlessness!

Although everyone warned and said that it was necessary to start such a process primarily from farms. It was agricultural cooperatives and people's aspirations that allowed them to raise the village and free enterprises and intelligentsia from the rampant autumn harvesting forced, which significantly reduced GDP in the same military-industrial complex, the payment for which during the period of suffering was up to 20-30% of GDP

[Civil]

Deff RU Today, 18:33 ↑
Quote: Civil

This does not negate the guilt of citizens, his understanding of the situation.

[Diman]

Quote: Civil

CCCP died because:
! The people who inhabited him finger to finger did not hit in order to save their country, exchanged socialism for chewing gum, jeans and Coca-Cola.
2. Lying in society has become the norm.
3. There was no change of leadership.

The USSR died because: the KGB did not fulfill its direct duty!

[Civil]

Quote: Diman

Quote: Civil

CCCP died because:
! The people who inhabited him finger to finger did not hit in order to save their country, exchanged socialism for chewing gum, jeans and Coca-Cola.
2. Lying in society has become the norm.
3. There was no change of leadership.

The USSR died because: the KGB did not fulfill its direct duty!

Are you all hoping for uncle?

[Starmos]

Vadim, with all due respect to you, please indicate your age. I want to communicate with an equal. Sincerely, Alexander (1965)

[Civil]

Quote: Starmos

Vadim, with all due respect to you, please indicate your age. I want to communicate with an equal. Sincerely, Alexander (1965)

sent by personal message, for elimination of inadequate personalities.

[Finches]

In any case, the collapse of the USSR, indeed, became the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century! Both Western and American inhabitants, and our librarians think in vain that they are winners, since it is this tragedy that lies at the base, is an in-depth launch mechanism, not God forbid, of course, the 3rd World War! Since it was she who allowed the ruling class of America to completely lose her head and mistakenly feel her exclusivity! The further Russia allows the United States to be led just as unreasonably, succumbing, the closer humanity slides into disaster!
That is why I personally believe that only decisive military actions of Russia in the South-East of Ukraine, and not some economic or political moves, are able to at least a little sober hot heads overseas and in Europe pushing the Earth away from global war!
No matter how paradoxical it may sound!

[work67]

4. A consistent chain of betrayal of the interests of the country.

[Civil]

Quote: lav67

4. A consistent chain of betrayal of the interests of the country.

More simply nonprofessionalism + infantilism.

[DMB-88]

"The CCCP died because:"


I have carefully read all the comments at the moment, everything seems to be good said, but I will write !!!

The USSR has not died, it is alive and will live in every person who was born in the USSR!
A little more than half of my life I lived in the USSR and I can talk about the state in which I was born, studied, served, studied again, worked, got married and gave birth to children.
Having treacherously collapsed, the USSR was taken from me Faith, my great-grandfathers were taken away from the Victory over Kolchak, Wrangel and Dinikin, the victory was taken from both of my grandfathers, who died the brave death in battles with the Nazi invaders who fought for the Soviet Union For Soviet Power, I emphasize for Soviet power, and not for a state called the Russian Federation, the labor and maternal feat of my grandmothers, who worked for the rear and raised four children, and after the war raised the National Economy, were taken away of the selfless work of my Mom and Dad, whose little share of labor, there is in Gagarin’s flight, and in powerful power plants, and in the nuclear shield of that Great Country, which the perestroika Judas betrayed, and their direct followers continue to cynically rob and force the tortured, torn apart body of this Country alive, pitting and inciting the hatred of those living in her peoples !!!
The right to free education and a happy Pioneer childhood was taken away from my children. I do not mean the efforts of my parents to educate them, but Pioneer camps, free sports schools and the choice of my creative future.
Many posts that We are all to blame. Yes, probably to a greater or lesser extent. But there was HOPE that everything is in Our hands !!! The fact that Socialism is utopia is a fairy tale of the bourgeoisie, which, like fire, is afraid of the ideas of Equality and Justice !!! The idea of ​​Reconstructing the USSR, as a National Idea, can unite and reconcile all peoples! 90% of people will subscribe to this idea. But this IDEA is not needed by the followers of perestroika Judas. Yes, It will be difficult for us in the struggle and restoration of the lost, but that faith in Freedom, Equality and Brotherhood will be reborn!
I SERVE THE SOVIET UNION !!!

[twin22]

Civil
CCCP died because:
! The people who inhabited him finger to finger did not hit in order to save their country, exchanged socialism for chewing gum, jeans and Coca-Cola.
2. Lying in society has become the norm.
3. There was no change of leadership.

How clever and brave! How old are you, boy?

[Daniel]

Quote: MSA

All signs of the fifth column to be held accountable publicly, on a strict and for real terms

Could you explain what you mean by the "fifth column"? If this is a dozen "smart guys" from Echo of Moscow, then this is one thing, but if this is anyone who expresses dissatisfaction with something (bad roads, corruption, lawlessness in the army, queues at kindergartens, etc.), then this is different.
In the second case, you have to

publicly, rigidly and for real terms

plant 95% of the population.

[nvv]

Quote: Civil

CCCP died because:
! The people who inhabited him finger to finger did not hit in order to save their country, exchanged socialism for chewing gum, jeans and Coca-Cola.
2. Lying in society has become the norm.
3. There was no change of leadership.

I was not ready for all this. Where have you been? You probably remember how we excitedly passed "news" to each other from newspapers that were no longer ours.

[Penzyac]

Quote: nvv

Quote: Civil

CCCP died because:
! The people who inhabited him finger to finger did not hit in order to save their country, exchanged socialism for chewing gum, jeans and Coca-Cola.
2. Lying in society has become the norm.
3. There was no change of leadership.

I was not ready for all this. Where have you been? You probably remember how we excitedly passed "news" to each other from newspapers that were no longer ours.

I fully agree with you, I am sinful.

[Civil]

Quote: PENZYAC

Quote: nvv

Quote: Civil

CCCP died because:
! The people who inhabited him finger to finger did not hit in order to save their country, exchanged socialism for chewing gum, jeans and Coca-Cola.
2. Lying in society has become the norm.
3. There was no change of leadership.

I was not ready for all this. Where have you been? You probably remember how we excitedly passed "news" to each other from newspapers that were no longer ours.

I fully agree with you, I am sinful.

Quote: PENZYAC

Quote: nvv

Quote: Civil

CCCP died because:
! The people who inhabited him finger to finger did not hit in order to save their country, exchanged socialism for chewing gum, jeans and Coca-Cola.
2. Lying in society has become the norm.
3. There was no change of leadership.

I was not ready for all this. Where have you been? You probably remember how we excitedly passed "news" to each other from newspapers that were no longer ours.

I fully agree with you, I am sinful.

Now how? Do you decide something or how?

[nvv]

Now how? Do you decide something or what? [/ Quote]
If someone on the branch answers your question, I will be pleasantly surprised.

[Civil]

Quote: nvv

Quote: Civil

CCCP died because:
! The people who inhabited him finger to finger did not hit in order to save their country, exchanged socialism for chewing gum, jeans and Coca-Cola.
2. Lying in society has become the norm.
3. There was no change of leadership.

I was not ready for all this. Where have you been? You probably remember how we excitedly passed "news" to each other from newspapers that were no longer ours.

Quote: nvv

Quote: Civil

CCCP died because:
! The people who inhabited him finger to finger did not hit in order to save their country, exchanged socialism for chewing gum, jeans and Coca-Cola.
2. Lying in society has become the norm.
3. There was no change of leadership.

I was not ready for all this. Where have you been? You probably remember how we excitedly passed "news" to each other from newspapers that were no longer ours.

Not enough age.

[korjik]

IN 92 I WAS 44 YEARS. TWO BOYS, PARENTS, WORK AND SALARY WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN FREE. Did I think of traitors in Moscow? I knew there was an all-seeing eye of the KGB,
The army, we fed them, watered and armed them, they took the oath to the people. But it turned out like in 41, the army, represented by its generals, sat out (surrendered), the KGB, on the contrary, led the collapse of the Union. Everything is like in the old parable - "A donkey with gold takes any fortress."

[DMB-88]

Quote: nvv

I was not ready for all this. Where have you been? You probably remember how we excitedly passed "news" to each other from newspapers that were no longer ours.

in 1989 I was 2 months in Riga, there I read a book published in Canada "Confession on a given topic", it immediately became clear that Eltsin was not only PI ... AS, but also an ENEMY, but according to Gorbachev, it became clear that Judas as soon as he came from the army, what he did to the country in two years!

[Interface]

Daniel.

When in the state

bad roads, corruption, lawlessness in the army, queues in kindergartens, etc.)

,
urgently purchased fashionable clothes and iPhones.

The consumer (who grew up in a consumer society) is a stupid, unscrupulous, mercantile animal that eats, sleeps, pisses, and shows discontent.

Well, like a domestic cat.

And so that he didn’t get it, the Romans invented a wonderful technique called BREAD AND SHOWS.


Everyone watches as a slave kills a slave in the ring, but no one will think that it is wildness. This is so much fun.



As a result of the collapse of the USSR, Russia again, as before 1917, stands on the "main road of civilization", with a "free" market, where someone dissects on yachts, and someone cannot pay for training, although he plows as he can in a burger king, but the market does not give other work for him, prostitution, drug addiction, hedonism, etc., growing in society.


Personally, I don’t want and don’t like such a state, and I don’t care that I was born in it.



although I did not serve then, but ...
Serving the Soviet Union!

[nvv]

[quote = Interface] Daniel.

When in the state [quote]



although I did not serve then, but ...
Serving the Soviet Union! [/ Quote]
It happened. I didn’t want to. But I never swore allegiance to anyone else.

[Victor Demchenko]

I also! swore only to the Union in the distant 1970 year!

[Daniel]

Quote: Interface

urgently purchased fashionable clothes and iPhones.

They are "purchased". And to buy, you need money. And to have money, you need to work (in most cases ) For fashionable clothes and iPhones are not just falling from the sky.

Quote: Interface

The consumer (who grew up in a consumer society) is a stupid, unscrupulous, mercantile animal that eats, sleeps, pisses, and shows discontent.

Why did you write this? To consume something, it must first be produced.
And about the "animals" ... There is no need to delude ourselves. While ordinary people, citizens of the USSR, saved money for a car / refrigerator / TV and stood in queues / pulled out sausages and other products by pull, the Soviet nomenclature did not deny themselves anything. For them, there even existed separate workshops in which they produced products "for the elite", the quality of which could not be compared with the mass ones. By the way, the modern concept of "shopping in Milan" is not so modern. Mistresses and daughters of ministerial rats even then bought clothes far from the store and far from "Uncle Vasya".

In the USSR there were only a couple of positive points:
1. Quality free education.
2. Free medicine.

[Interface]

Why did you write this? To consume something, it must first be produced.

The Russian Federation lives by import. That's why I wrote it.

For them, there were even separate workshops in which products "for the elite" were produced. By the way, the modern concept of "shopping in Milan" is not so modern. Mistresses and daughters of ministerial rats even then bought clothes far from "Uncle Vasya".

If the government departed from generally accepted norms (asceticism), this, of course, is an emergency.

But this still does not prove that the system is not effective. The authorities only began to behave in two ways in relation to citizens.
If the smallest details of the life of the highest party officials had become known to the masses, there would have been scandal and unrest.

[Daniel]

Quote: Interface

The Russian Federation lives by import. That's why I wrote it.

So far, acceptable conditions have not been created for the appearance of their analogues Apple, HP, Tesla and others in Russia. There are sensible cadres who are forced to emigrate from the country in search of a better share. This is not buzzing. The investment climate is bad, so for now we support a foreign manufacturer.

Quote: Interface

If the government departed from generally accepted norms (asceticism), this, of course, is an emergency.

Is asceticism in power? Something new. Power has always been a source of wealth and raising living standards.

Quote: Interface

But this still does not prove that the system is not effective

He was ineffective. There is nothing to prove.

Quote: Interface

The authorities only began to behave in two ways in relation to citizens.

Do you think only in the USSR? It was always and everywhere.

Quote: Interface

If the smallest details of the life of the highest party officials became known to the masses

Do you think no one knew? Everyone knew everything, and who did not know, he guessed.

Quote: Interface

there would be a scandal and riots.

What is the scandal? Whisper in the kitchen?

[Interface]

Is asceticism in power? Something new. Power has always been a source of wealth and raising living standards.

In capitalist societies, yes. In the Stalinist USSR, officials were forbidden to have more than 4 rooms.

The tendency to strengthen the role of the nomenklatura appeared under Khrushchev, who received "immunity" from him, in particular, the state security bodies stopped monitoring the way of life of party officials.

He was ineffective. There is nothing to prove.

Well grounded. "it was ineffective because it was ineffective."

Do you think only in the USSR? It was always and everywhere.

Do not attribute to me what I did not say.

Do you think no one knew? Everyone knew everything, and who did not know, he guessed.

Aristarchus also guessed that the Earth was spinning around the Sun.

While there is no evidence of an assumption, just an assumption.

What is the scandal? Whisper in the kitchen?

These are when everyone made public during the time of perestroika.
That is why everyone yelled "Down with the Communist Party", because their assumptions were confirmed.

[Daniel]

Quote: Interface

Well grounded. "it was ineffective because it was ineffective."

It lasted 70 years and fell apart. Efficiency 80 level.

[Interface]

It lasted 70 years and fell apart. 80 Level Efficiency

Socialism from the time of Stalin and rotten socialism from the time of the late Brezhnev are the same different things as butter and margarine.


Saying that the USSR collapsed because it was ineffective, and ineffective because it collapsed is just as stupid if you explain that oil is oily because it is oily.

[saag]

Quote: Interface

Socialism from the time of Stalin and rotten socialism from the time of the late Brezhnev are the same different things as butter and margarine.

To say so, you yourself have to live in two time eras

[Daniel]

Quote: saag

To say so, you yourself have to live in two time eras

It is not necessary to spend time comparing time periods. There is one simple fact: scoop is no more. Like it or not, but it is.

[saag]

Quote: Daniel

scoop is no more

Quote: Daniel

Like

Quote: Daniel

This is true

Do you like what is now?

[Daniel]

Quote: saag

Do you like what is now?

Not all and not always. But we have a huge country that needs to be worked on, which needs to be developed. And do not whine what a scoop was great.

[saag]

Quote: Daniel

which needs to be developed.

Where is the development vector directed, which society, what is the system of government?

[Alexei]

Quote: Daniel

we have a huge country that needs to be worked on, which needs to be developed. And do not whine what a scoop was great.

Only the scoop was able to beat on human vices, and it is they (vices) that inhibit development.

[Alexei]

Quote: Daniel

It is not necessary to spend time comparing time periods. There is one simple fact: the scoop is gone. Like it or not, but it is.

What do you want a "scoop"? Are you constantly mutuzi at the LTP, or maybe they were forced to collect waste paper after school, and you wanted to smoke outside the garages? Or maybe, after standing in a long queue, you didn't get a doctor's stick? Why are you so grabbed into this scoop then?

PS: "Scoop" will die along with the last person he raised.

[saag]

Quote: Alexej

or maybe they were forced to collect waste paper after school

By the way, in the city this could be a profitable business, you could exchange waste paper for interesting books :-) 20 kilos in my opinion for one book

[23 region]

Quote: Alexej

What do you want a "scoop"? Are you constantly mutuzi at the LTP, or maybe they were forced to collect waste paper after school, and you wanted to smoke outside the garages? Or maybe, after standing in a long queue, you didn't get a doctor's stick? Why are you so grabbed this scoop then? PS: "Scoop" will die along with the last person he raised.

Completely for. The Pepsi generation doesn't know its history. Hence the "Scoop". (The word is not good, the ear cuts to those who lived in the USSR)

[23 region]

PS: "Scoop" will die along with the last person he raised.

All the same, there was a beautiful heraldry.

[subbtin.725]

But already once sent to ...

[gunya]

The collapse of the USSR is the result of both mistakes (to put it mildly) and the isolation of the leadership, the loss of communication with the masses as a result of which Gorbachev and Yeltsin appeared - not the best representatives of the party.
The collapse was a foregone conclusion when the so-called Stalinist principles of leadership.

[Interface]

And about "animals" ... You don't need to delude yourself

Yes, I do not flatter myself. I just saw how glamorous Moscow sheep talk about patriotism with a modestly dressed middle-aged man. Moreover, they laughed at patriotism, and the layman read morality to them.

From the point of view of the layman, the glammers fiddled a bit. They have everything, but they don’t like something.

[DPZ]

in the USSR was the trump card - stability. everyone knew that he would not die of hunger and would feed his family and the children would be attached. now no one has this confidence. hence the nerves of stress and disease.
and it is better to watch TV programs from the Electron screen and be sure that "everything is calm in Baghdad" than from the Sony-Trinitron screen and not know for sure that you will not be cut, that you or someone close to you will not get sick, so there will not be enough money for treatment that you will put the child on his feet with dignity and that he will not chip on the quiet while you plow at work from dawn to dawn in order to live well enough.

[not main]

Quote: DPZ

everyone knew that he would not die of hunger and feed his family and the children would be attached

I agree! But I had to wait for this all my life! Unless you have relatives or in extreme cases, good friends from power. (You can district, but the better the higher! and the higher the better.)

[b.t.a.]

Quote: Daniel

In the USSR there were only a couple of positive points:
1. Quality free education.
2. Free medicine.

And not only that. The common man was protected. Remember the Labor Code. There were trade unions. Sport. Job. How not as apartments were given. The economic model in the USSR was certainly not kokaya. A dead-end planned economy. But China has overcome this problem. Damn, even insulting. The whole world is learning how to do it. Sweden took a lot from socialism, China from communism, and we attacked again and again and then heroically “laundered”.

[saha6052]

"Dead-end planned economy." - dead-end is only-Head, especially empty. How is it a scientifically based development plan that any state, corporation and even a family, if it is imputed to be a Dead end? -A mess, chaos, plundering of national resources , is the transformation of the state into a commercial shop for the sale of paternal inheritance is a "window of opportunity?" - for kovs, pseudo-Jews and the same "Russians." What is the quality of a person, such are the methods.

[Robert49]

In the Bright Union, the most important thing was CONFIDENCE IN THE FUTURE !!!

[225chay]

Quote: Daniel

In the USSR there were only a couple of positive points:
1. Quality free education.
2. Free medicine.

And All The Best was really for the children.

[DMB-88]

Quote: Interface

Serving the Soviet Union!

Yes, at the very point, at the very HEART you got your comment !!!! I’ve already practically written, but now I don’t know what to add. I’ll try to pick up the words, I will definitely formulate it.
Everything and great victories, grief and joy, and most importantly FAITH, are connected with the Soviet Union.
and the current state is a caricatured mockery of Greatness, Kindness and Holiness!
and to love such a state is not something that you don’t want, but simply NOT FOR WHAT !!! rather, on the contrary ...
The impression that the country of Valiant Atlantes was deceived by the evil and greedy Dwarfs !!!

I SERVE THE SOVIET UNION !!!

[b.t.a.]

I think the "fifth column" is not those who criticize the authorities for their unwillingness to work. After all, it is we who, by means of elections, appoint the government that serves us (in theory), so we just have to be critical of its mistakes. "The fifth column" in my understanding is people (regardless of their status) who do not like their homeland and their people. And I personally don't give a damn for what reasons they do it, it's just that they are traitors.

Quote: Daniel

Could you explain what you mean by the "fifth column"? If this is a dozen "smart guys" from "Echo of Moscow", then this is one thing, but if this is anyone who expresses dissatisfaction with something (bad roads, corruption, lawlessness in the army, queues at kindergartens, etc.), then this is a friend

[Daniel]

Quote: B.T.A.

"The fifth column" in my understanding is people (regardless of their status) who do not like their homeland and their people.

I agree. There is nothing to add.

[Giant thought]

Gorbachev must be hanged as a state criminal, but you cannot return the past, now it’s a different time, other tasks, but the lessons of the past must be remembered by everyone in order to avoid such mistakes again.

[nvv]

Quote: Giant thought

Gorbachev must be hanged as a state criminal, but you cannot return the past, now it’s a different time, other tasks, but the lessons of the past must be remembered by everyone in order to avoid such mistakes again.

Giant. You and I need to be suspended. Don't you agree?

[Interface]

Giant. You and I need to be suspended. Don't you agree?

There is no need for this.

Real communists either hanged themselves or shot a bullet in their head when they realized the inevitability of collapse.
As Marshal of the Soviet Union, Akhromeev, chief of the General Staff, as Minister of the Interior of Pugo.

Only they will not find money for the monument from the state. We put monuments to Gaidar and Yeltsin.

[nvv]

Quote: Interface

Giant. You and I need to be suspended. Don't you agree?

There is no need for this.

You see, then we were told that politics is a dirty thing, and we believed it. It turns out that who is out of politics, he has only one gyrus.

[nvv]

But what Fedorov says about this.

[Giant thought]

I do not agree. Everyone must do their job. But, and if you have a desire to be suspended, then this is your personal matter.

[nvv]

Giant. I agree. I’ll hang in solitude. And you have nothing to do with it.

[saha6052]

A person is not given to know - the Truth, it is he, simply - not on the shoulder, but on the shoulder incomplete interpretations (an admissible error). And what does it have to do with Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Chubais, Putin, Burbulis? The USSR did not die in 91, but in the 24th, don't you remember? -I no, no, and I remember. Capitalism is on the rise, redistribution crises blazed across the planet, and then "lucky, so lucky", the empire weakened, the ferment of minds, Sharikov and the company wanted to start The left-wing project seems to have "rolled away", but who knows where Reaction awaits you? You can recall the words of Lenin: "When joining the party promised only one privilege - the gallows, no one climbed into the party, but as soon as the party held out, won and became ruling, a stream of statements from all sorts of crooks, careerists, deserving only to be shot by us, poured in. Better not to accept the ten best workers than to accept one rogue-grave digger of the party. "- this is probably Lenin talking about Stalin, who skillfully imitated a communist and which he never was, but was a traitor to the Revolution, the reincarnator of the monarchy and empire rii, and you say-Gorbachev? -Gorbachev is a bacterium, a microbe, in such games of the Great Laboratory assistants of history.

[Dart2027]

Quote: saha6052

when joining the party promised only one gallows privilege, no one climbed into the party

Excuse me, in what year did Stalin become a revolutionary?

[saha6052]

I don’t remember, but something else is important: he was never a revolutionary, you should not confuse him with Napoleon and even Nestor Makhno. He was always a criminal, a subject (this cannot be taken away), illiterate, without a profession (even my father was a shoemaker). his - have you gathered or your own delusions on this score? - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin wanted to be a revolutionary, to whom I have deep sympathy, but even he did not succeed, but a banal coup d'etat turned out, which the Stalinist bureaucracy completed with the reincarnation of the monarchy and the imperial tradition with the consolidation this in rituals, cultural crafts, art, education - which, by the way, was based not on conscientious Knowledge - is the mission of the Revolution, but on faith in a kind and wise leader and his gang and matrix of loyalty (assessment for behavior). that Stalin is a communist, a revolutionary must be asked: and where is the country Zin? Revolution is a triumph of a new way of life, more rational, more effective (do not remember Lenin? -and I no, no, and I remember: "everything will be decided by The productivity of Labor "- how are you with this Business? - We bring tails to the capital? - dialectics-brother, you can't argue with her, she crushed him (your idol, like a bug) with the hands of the best students and this is a communist? - funny to God, Lenin to raise, he would have been stunned by what the long-time member of his party did to the party and the country.

[Dart2027]

Quote: saha6052

he was never a revolutionary, do not confuse him with Napoleon

Was Napoleon a revolutionary?

Quote: saha6052

illiterate, without a profession (father at least was a shoemaker)

Actually, Stalin had an incomplete higher education, although he studied as a priest, but nonetheless.

Quote: saha6052

Anyone who says that Stalin is a communist, revolutionary should be asked: is the country somewhere Zin

Where in which year - 1945 or 1995?

Quote: saha6052

Revolution is the triumph of a new way, more rational, more effective

A revolution is chaos and devastation, from which something more ordered, but not necessarily better, is created.

[1812 1945]

The general is right. There was an opportunity to save Russia, the USSR. Not the United States destroyed the country with its intrigues. Contributed? - Yes. The spiritual degeneration of political power has always been destructive for the state - from Ancient Rome, to - alas - the USSR, or - the United States, which many will soon witness ... What else is there to comment? ... History depends on the individual. Oh, how it depends !!!

[s1н7т]

Quote: MSA

Everyone who saw, knew and kept silent at the same time as accomplices, cruel of course, but how else to deal with traitors.

Well, that is, Chubais, Burbulis, Sobchak, Putin?

[starshina78]

I believe that the blame for the collapse of the USSR lies with us all! At first we voted for the preservation of the USSR, and then we listened with delight to Yeltsin, although he really had to be driven with a nasty broom. And the further the better. And to argue now, listen to someone's arguments, learn about the "Dulles plan", and so on - it's too late. Dig into yourself, ask yourself: "What did I do then? What did I do? Whom did I listen to and who did I applaud?"

[snifer]

I went to first grade

[nvv]

Quote: snifer

I went to first grade

Lucky you have an alibi.

[Basarev]

I wasn’t born at all then - I was born in ninety-fourth, at the height of horror.

[not main]

Quote: starshina78

I believe that the blame for the collapse of the USSR lies with us all! At first, we voted in favor of preserving the USSR, and then with enthusiasm we listened to Yeltsin, although he really had to be driven by a filthy broom.

I agree! But remember how Yeltsin came up. On the incompetent GKChP! Good idea with incompetent execution. By the way, here's the question about the staff! The result of the fact that this issue was decided by HR SECTIONS!

[armageddon]

Hmm ... Ruined the USSR in my opinion ... With a passive central leadership ... The desire of the leadership of the republics for leadership ... As in the old Russian proverb: "Better to be the first in the village, than the second in the city !!!" Human vanity ... But the West contributed ... !!!

[Goga101]

MSA - Colleague, but this Chekist bastard @, N. Leonov - LIES!
Here is his quote - "Gorbachev was stupid, like a" gray gelding "" and also a quote about Gorbachev - "... he did not understand what consequences his actions would lead to." ...
does he take us for idiots? Was it Gorbachev "did not understand"? The well-marked scum understood everything, and the hunchback was never stupid - he clearly and thoughtfully played the role that his owners ordered him to. And if N. Leonov pretends that this is not the case, that everything happened "out of stupidity", then this speaks only of one thing - N. Leonov himself is in this "topic" and thus tries to cast a shadow on a clear question - destroyed the USSR business the hands of traitors and not fools.

[Cadet787]

The main version of the train wreck with oil products in Cherkassy - sabotage
23.08.2014 - 11: 06
Among the versions of the big fire at the Gorodishche railway station, where 20 tanks had gone off the rails the day before, 11 of them and the locomotive caught fire as a result of an oil spill, the probability of partisan movement is being actively discussed.

Recall about a possible partisan action in the Cherkasy region. Segodnya.Ru wrote yesterday, citing sources from the Vornkor.info agency.

As the portal "Ukraine.Ru" writes, some veterans of the Marine Corps call the incident a sabotage: "Most likely, the tanks were fired at from a large-caliber sniper. Moreover, there is an oil depot 200 meters from the scene of the event. There is where to hide in these parts. Forest, peat bogs. And there are also two military depots - vehicles and artillery ammunition (arsenal No. 3) - this is 10 km from the Gorodishche station, near the village of Irdyn. Fire engines arrived from there. Military unit number - A 3177 ".

This incident was already the third in the last week, recalls the portal. On August 21, Zaporizhzhya partisans blew up six fuel trucks with fuel. In the Chuguev region, partisans of the Kharkov People’s Republic, using captured weapons, destroyed a large fuel tank.

[Cadet787]

Zhirinovsky proposed abolishing parties and moving to an elected monarchy
23.08.2014 - 18: 37
LDPR leader Vladimir Zhirinovsky proposed banning political parties in Russia and moving to an elected monarchy.

"Democracy will destroy us. As long as we have democracy, we will crawl. In order not to crawl, but to walk, we need to move away from democracy and switch to an imperial form of government," he said, speaking at the Seliger All-Russian Youth Forum.

"Democracy and a multiparty system was imposed on weak states," the parliamentarian emphasized, quoted by ITAR-TASS. “Prohibit all parties! Let there be a monarchy, but an elective one - 5-6 thousand people gather, the best people, and elect the emperor!”, - he concluded.

[225chay]

Quote: MSA

All signs of the fifth column are held accountable publicly,

Quote: MSA

if the GKChP did not listen to Swan Lake and did not hold press conferences with shaking hands, but would appeal to the people, the party, the law enforcement agencies, would urge them to defend the USSR and socialism, I think that the balance of power would change in benefit of the Emergency Committee.

The people, I mean the common people, most would support!

[bda]

All signs of the fifth column should be held accountable publicly, on a tough and for real terms, which would not have been shared by the rest, and also blocked the sources of financing.
Everyone who saw, knew and kept silent at the same time as accomplices, cruel of course, but how else to deal with traitors.

When (not so long ago) a certain Valeria Novodvorskaya died (I don’t even know - from which column there was dohlyatina - first, fifth, etc.) - her relatives and friends (a certain Constantine Borovoy, in any way) were public condolences at the highest level.
This is, in your opinion, what case: direct complicity, or simply "saw, knew ..."?

[coolvoldik]

A little tightened, according to the style of presentation, but chewed for a kindergarten!

[Basarev]

Above, I read about the successes of the partisans of the Kharkov People's Republic. I would like to know more about this republic.

[Pro100Igor]

-------- --------

[Buran]

------- --------

[atos_kin]

The first step is to return the name STALINGRAD!

[Sasha 19871987]

Gorbachev must be shut down by 25 years for treason; he dumped such a country, a nonsense ...

[cap54]

this "duck with a speck" now lives on permanent residence in Bavaria, with some periodicity appears in the States and in England ...

[sergey261180]

Quote: sasha 19871987

Gorbachev must be shut down by 25 years for treason; he dumped such a country, a nonsense ...

For me, an ice ax is more efficient and effective

[Pro100Igor]

I also like this option!

[redneck]

it seems better and you will not say

[Old warrior]

We ourselves are to blame for this, and it is good that the Lord seems to have forgiven us for this. The main thing now is not to repeat the vile mistake, maybe this is our last chance for existence.

[EsTaF]

The death of the USSR occurred due to the philistine psychology of people. Jeans, Coca-Cola, and later all sorts of tape recorders and computers (now). craving for all this nonsense.
a person should think about the soul, and not about these temporary things.
I really hope that soon all this will be successfully covered up and people will become people, as before.

[vadgen]

The state must fight for the minds of its citizens. People did not come out to defend the country, because at one far from perfect moment, they ceased to be supporters of their state. Even in this interview, it was noted that the media were in the hands of people who were not loyal to the Soviet system. A more recent example is before our eyes, having lost the battle in the media, Yanukovych almost lost his power and life. By the way, we must pay tribute to the Kiev junta, in the battle for the minds of Ukrainians nothing sacred for them exists.

[Fast]

... The death of the USSR occurred due to the philistine psychology of people ...

What kind of people? The people voted for the USSR. There has never been a philistine psychology among the people, and now it is such a rarity. On top, yes, it was, they were just a little. From there, and legs grow.

[Saturn43]

The most serious and most important topic on which you need to write more than a dozen volumes of text and not just anyone but the Attorney General !!!!

[EsTaF]

USSR 2. Eh. Really wait. Hurry up.
And let the traitors of the motherland be cleaned in the USA.

[23 region]

Quote: EsTaF

USSR 2. Eh. Really wait. Hurry up.
And let the traitors of the motherland be cleaned in the USA.

Until now, the collapse of the USSR, like a knife to the heart.
I remember my shock and confusion. All rushed with a question: -Why !? What to do!? But there was no leader, and the people would support. I hope for a revival. I don’t see anything bad in the imperial idea.

[23 region]

Quote: Region 23

Until now, the collapse of the USSR, like a knife to the heart.

the results of the referendum of March 17, 1991, the mood of the majority of people showed that the fate of the Union worries the broad masses of the population of a single country. As you know, 76.4% of citizens supported the renewal of the USSR. This is more than 113,5 million people, almost two thirds of the total population of the country.

[s1н7т]

Quote: Region 23

I don’t see anything bad in the imperial idea.

What was imperial in the USSR? What a stupidity!

[23 region]

Quote: c1n7

Quote: Region 23

I don’t see anything bad in the imperial idea.

What was imperial in the USSR? What a stupidity!

An empire (from Latin imperium - power) is a powerful military power uniting different peoples and territories into a single state with a single political center, playing a significant role in the region or even throughout the world.
OR SO:
“Political science” (compiled and edited by Yu.I. Averyanov; M., 1993) we will find the following interpretation: empire is a “political system that unites heterogeneous ethno-national and administrative-territorial entities on the basis of relations of the metropolis under the authority of strict centralized power - colony, center - national republics and suburbs. "

The October Revolution did not result in the liquidation of the empire, but its temporary weakening, and then restoration.
It is difficult to judge the ideas about the imperial idea of ​​the Soviet period - one thing was said, but the opposite was done. It is clear that Bolshevik party leaders most often thought imperial. This was manifested most of all in Stalin: geopolitical aggressiveness became a characteristic feature of Soviet foreign policy precisely during the reign of this all-powerful secretary general.
During the years of perestroika, preconditions for the non-imperial existence of the country developed in public consciousness, however, it seems to me that the implementation of these preconditions will be difficult.
However, in my opinion, even after 1991, Russia remained an imperial state.
Firstly, she has claims on the territory of other states (Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus), and some people are desperately fighting for the restoration of the USSR. Secondly, a centralization policy is being pursued in Russia.
The imperial idea is a kind of fuel for maintaining state integrity. When the idea of ​​imperial patriotism was deeply embedded in the soul of every representative of a multimillion people, the government was forced to reckon with such moods, at least at a rhetorical level.
An imperial-minded person is always happy with strict centralization, because even infringing on the rights of people, it contributes to the realization of sovereign ideals. The future will show what our country will come to in its current development and what role the imperial idea will play in this development.

[Stypor23]

I never liked to read the recollections of all these statesmen, warriors and special services. But even so I did it. Over the years, it's good to sit and crumble over what I did not to save the country. So, purely for clarity: there is a video on the network where the channel TVC compliments Vadik Bakatin.

[the polar]

Quote: Stypor23

I never liked to read the recollections of all these statesmen, warriors and special services. But even so I did it. Over the years, it's good to sit and crumble over what I did not to save the country. So, purely for clarity: there is a video on the network where the channel TVC compliments Vadik Bakatin.

Former KGB generals, active participants in the collapse of the USSR now live in Germany in private villas, sometimes they give interviews that they warned everyone, but no one listened to them ...

[avt]

“And I remember very well that Andropov, after reading this report, said that this report contained the truth, but now to break the first secretary of the Central Committee of Uzbekistan, Rashidov, as suggested by the Chairman of the KGB Directorate for Uzbekistan Melkumov, and could follow from this document, now is not the time. Therefore, he did not remove Rashidov from there, which would certainly lead to the explosion of a nationalist spiral, as in Kazakhstan, but preferred to send the chairman of the KGB of this republic to another post, on a trip abroad, so that those who were involved in the bacchanalia would not settle scores with him here. , and knew about the preparation of this document. "------ Well, what other questions about the collapse of the USSR and who is to blame ?????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? The top of the CPSU decided that from now on they will have everything, although they did, but nothing will happen for it, well, they exchanged all their ideals from Marx for a specific loot, which in fact turned out to be just tinted paper depicting dead American presidents, and the KGB - the frontline detachment of the party, they had their own oath - to selflessly serve the cause of the party.

[B.T.V.]

I know that hatred is a sin, but I hate Gorbachev and Yeltsin. And the fifth and other columns, it is really necessary to block all sources of financing, and dissatisfied with organizing trips to permanent residence outside Russia without the right to return.

[rf xnumx]

Quote: B.T.W.

dissatisfied with organizing trips to permanent residence outside Russia without the right to return

And can you do this to them

[B.T.V.]

The option is good, but the actions of the liberals are from the series: “no matter how much you feed a wolf, he still looks to Europe,” so it is better to let them go to “free bread” in the most “democratic democracy”.

[el.krokodil]

Quote: Stypor23

I never liked to read the recollections of all these statesmen, warriors and special services. But even so I did it. Over the years, it's good to sit and crumble over what I did not to save the country. So, purely for clarity: there is a video on the network where the channel TVC compliments Vadik Bakatin.

-Especially when the state forgave everything and pays good pensions .. all the memoirs of these figures are commercial reading for the same as they .. friend for friend write .. and .. a little for the west ..- people ditch-GREAT POWER-USSR! from I personally haven’t read anything of the principle, and I’m not going to read it. I need to write honest confession to everyone, and sit under investigation rather than write memoirs ..

[Cossack Ermak]

What is there to think. Gorbachev's wife is Jewish. The Jews dragged Gorbachev up and, with his "help", destroyed the USSR.

[cap54]

I, too, constantly wonder - how do these Jewish women in their youth know whom to stick to? After all, then none of them knew what would happen in 10-15 years? And these already everyone knew ... Raiska, Naina, etc. etc. the list goes on, but there Jewish women are a little lower in rank ... They first started through their spouses and then yo-yo finished the collapse of such a great country ...

[brisk]

Quote: Cossack Ermak

What is there to think. Gorbachev's wife is Jewish

Raya Titarenko would have completely gone for Tatar. And to the Jewess ... Well, except for the shabsgoyuku.

[225chay]

Quote: svelto

Raya Titarenko would have completely gone for Tatar. And to the Jewess ... Well, except for the shabsgoyuku.

)) So the Tatar Jew)) ..

[333312]

Yes, it is a pity that they allowed the USSR!

[23 region]

Quote: 333312

Yes, it is a pity that they allowed the USSR!

Recall the true destroyers of the Union by name.

These are Mikhail Gorbachev, Alexander Yakovlev, Boris Yeltsin, Stanislav Shushkevich, Leonid Kravchuk and Gennady Burbulis.

Enormous "invaluable" help to the destroyers in their dirty deed was also provided by close associates. This is the ex-Minister of Foreign Affairs of the USSR Eduard Shevarnadze, people's deputies of the USSR: - Anatoly Sobchak, Yuri Afanasyev, Gavriil Popov, Larisa Pari (Moldova), Vytautas Landsbergis and Aldona Prunskene (Lithuania) and others. These are people's deputies of the RSFSR: - Ruslan Khasbulatov, Oleg Rumyantsev, Gleb Yakunin, Galina Starovoitova and others. These are politicians from "Democratic Russia": Elena Bonner, Lev Ponamoryov, Vera Krieger and many others.

In this whole story, with the collapse of the Great Power, the “otherworldly hand” is also felt. Whose? I think no need to explain.

[225chay]

Quote: Region 23

These are Mikhail Gorbachev, Alexander Yakovlev, Boris Yeltsin, Stanislav Shushkevich, Leonid Kravchuk and Gennady Burbulis.

Enormous "invaluable" help to the destroyers in their dirty deed was also provided by close associates. This is the ex-Minister of Foreign Affairs of the USSR Eduard Shevarnadze, people's deputies of the USSR: - Anatoly Sobchak, Yuri Afanasyev, Gavriil Popov, Larisa Pari (Moldova), Vytautas Landsbergis and Aldona Prunskene (Lithuania) and others. These are people's deputies of the RSFSR: - Ruslan Khasbulatov, Oleg Rumyantsev, Gleb Yakunin, Galina Starovoitova and others. These are politicians from "Democratic Russia": Elena Bonner, Lev Ponamoryov, Vera Krieger and many others.

Shahrai forgot!
But this lawyer who completed the Rostov RSU made up the text of the contract in Belovezhskaya Pushcha

[EsTaF]

Long live the USSR!

[bubalik]

if its members would decide on what the Chinese authorities decided in the 1989 year, then their activity would now be given a different assessment

,,, "According to various sources, then several hundred people died, thousands were injured. As Chinese politicians later said to their colleagues from Russia:" Your fault and trouble is that you did not go to your Tiananmen Square. We are in the 89th year - we went. Yes, we killed thousands of people in this square, but we saved a billion Chinese. Today, China is a prosperous country with leaps and bounds for the future. And you lost your future in August 91 "." ,,,

And the situation in those days was such that if the GKChP did not listen to Swan Lake and did not hold a press conference with shaking hands, it would appeal to the people, the party, the law enforcement agencies, would urge them to defend the USSR and socialism , I think that the balance of power would change in favor of the Emergency Committee

,,, There gathered people who had already proved by their previous actions that they are ineffective leaders. Remember at least Pavlov's exchange of 50 and 100 ruble bills, in fact, confiscatory. This hit the mood of the whole society very hard. Therefore, in my opinion, the GKChP leaders themselves were psychologically closer not to Yanukovych and Kuchma, but just to the leaders of the Maidan, since the Maidan was led both in 2014 and in 2004 by people who were already in power and had already been thrown out by it for clearly and convincingly demonstrated professional incompetence. I think that the State Emergency Committee was rather one of the impetus for the development of Sharp's methodology, the first, let's say, generation of "velvet revolutions", which was more spontaneous than the second generation. But on their example the technology applied later was worked out. Anatoly Vasserman

http://www.nakanune.ru/articles/19335/

[GHOST29RUS]

Gorbachev, with his urgent perestroika, destroyed a great country. Who let him go to power?

[EsTaF]

The next time is no longer valid.

[passing]

Gorbachev is just a product of the system that was in power after the death of Stalin. The main condition for climbing up the career ladder was loyalty to the system and not personal business qualities. So Gorbachev was just an expression of the will of the party-nomenclature elite, which ultimately skimmed the collapse of the Union.

[saha6052]

Great-passing and thank you for looking at a couple of my posts! and gone further, well, do not shout in the trail-hey! -Wait, I have not said everything. And now on-business: yes, Gorby-product, and even -System (bureaucracy, formalism, protectionism and a little bit-onanism, spiritual and intellectual). If you want to ruin any business, then it is best to entrust it to the Bureaucracy, it will first develop the case into an investigative one, then into a developed socialist one, and finally into an underdeveloped capitalist one, i.e. frankly gangster (simplifications and destruction, on which you insisted below, get and do not delay the queue). If the "condition" was loyalty to the System (only a transformer-robot is capable of this, but not a living person), the system would still be in good health- Russia is a storehouse of incalculable resources and you can endlessly turn rivers, release scrap metal and shoes of Parisian sans-culottes, stuffing the empire's warehouses with rubbish, but it all comes to an end, including bureaucratic Paradise (a zoo of the Stalinist period), and now Russia is unraveling the jungle grudge for the notorious "stability" of existence and the most striking is a country where religion is dialectics!? - in the formal sense, de facto, it was a pigsty, where both the people and the pseudo-elite were corny fed for slaughter (the late USSR, under Stalin, with fat was Some strained, and after him, relaxed, like Zhirinovsky) And of course: Gorbachev was not anyone's spokesman, but rather a symbol and a set-up described by Ilf and Petrov: “I sat with Nikolai-stick no, Alexandra the Liberator, as I was sitting under Bush the Elder! - this is a song! - a scarecrow of the garden. And I think that you hurry up to envy: "skimmed the cream" - it's not over yet, they still regurgitate them with blood - "it's never so expensive the Man pays as for his own Foolishness. "Goethe.

[saha6052]

Yes, why don’t you comment on others, am I curious to observe your comments?

[sergey261180]

Quote: GHOST29RUS

Gorbachev, with his urgent perestroika, destroyed a great country. Who let him go to power?

Rumor has it that the humpback dragged Andropov (Fleckenstein).

[225chay]

Quote: sergey261180

Rumor has it that the humpback dragged Andropov (Fleckenstein).

It was HIS henchman ..

[vladsolo56]

Immediately after the war, the collapse of the USSR began. The party and senior officials did not want any communism, and they no longer needed socialism. they stole and stole a lot, but they could not legalize what was stolen, because the moral principles of the Soviet government were still strong. Somewhere in the years 60-70, a program of gradual decomposition of socialist values ​​and morality was included. By the age of 80, it was all over, and what happened under Gorbachev was a logical result of US propaganda sabotage, which the CPSU silently supported. Therefore, when the USSR was openly and brazenly destroyed, almost no one was indignant. Everyone believed that truly only private property could give the country a real economy and prosperity. Only if they were returned to today's years back in 80-90, then neither Gorbachev nor even Yeltsin would have lived for several days. They would be torn into flaps. Is it possible to restore the popular power of the soviets and socialism, even in Russia? it is possible, but for this we need a very decisive leader in the country, who understands that socialism is better and more reliable than capitalism in all areas. I am absolutely sure that if you call people into socialism, a huge, overwhelming number of people will rise.

[EsTaF]

Private property must be banned.

[kr33sania]

What is the use of pecking Yeltsin and Gorbachev at the fifth point? We need to get rid of the camarilla that Russia planted from the USA. Therefore, our economy is slipping, rushing, like inflation leaps and bounds. But Serdyukovs and Chubais do not blow a mustache.

[creak]

Quote: kr33sania

We need to get rid of the camarilla that Russia planted from the USA. Therefore, our economy is slipping, rushing, like inflation leaps and bounds. But Serdyukovs and Chubais do not blow a mustache.

Did the Americans also appoint these Chubais and Serdyukov to such posts? That’s what it turns out to be .... It seems you know how they once again succeeded, reveal a secret, maybe the country's leadership is also not up to date ...

[No. 4№y]

ranger RU Today, 16:20 ↑ New
Quote: kr33sania
We need to get rid of the camarilla that Russia planted from the USA. Therefore, our economy is slipping, rushing, like inflation leaps and bounds. But Serdyukovs and Chubais do not blow a mustache.

Did the Americans also appoint these Chubais and Serdyukov to such posts? That’s what it turns out to be .... It seems you know how they once again succeeded, reveal a secret, maybe the country's leadership is also not up to date ...

the Americans built the system in 1993, enshrined it in the constitution they wrote, and now the system appoints those who are needed by the amers, and surnames do not play a role.

[andrew42]

To the root! Donbass Donbass, and who rules Russia and intends to do with it, is also a question.

[sergey261180]

Quote: kr33sania

What is the use of pecking Yeltsin and Gorbachev at the fifth point?

Humpback and Yeltsin are symbols of collapse and disaster. It’s like the flag of the occupying forces over the Kremlin. It is necessary to break and burn this flag, liberation will begin from this.

[azbukin77]

Quote: Sasha 19871987

Gorbachev must be shut down by 25 years for treason; he dumped such a country, a nonsense ...

So he was from the very beginning poorly understanding what he was doing, the vocabulary of the moron and Riska was in charge of everyone. To anathematize Iidu in life !!!!!

[muginov2015]

Sitting, horseradish walrus, he thinks ...; at a time when the Great Country was dying, the most powerful special service in the world "... received information and did not know where to send it ..." bl. Yes, I’m sure, 100% sure that the top secret instructions from the top of the KGB about what actions should be taken in the event that the treacherous line of behavior of the upper echelon of power is clearly visible. They just deflated and sold out for good dividends and a comfortable prospect. And then he starts talking about Tai'anmen Square. And who prevented you from acting like the Chinese. And ... I don't even want to talk about this topic. Something like this.

[saha6052]

"[quote = muginov2015] Sits, horseradish walrus, he ponders ...; at a time when the Great Country was dying, the most powerful special service in the world" ... received information and did not know where to send it ... "bl. words no "-------------- I share YOUR feelings, bl.there are no words. even if you discard the philosophy of the Left project, there are few people who support it - okay xr with you and your empire stinking, but even within the framework of its paradigm: the death of the empire is a betrayal of the special services (the eyes of the nation) were sealed with a plaster so that there would be no shame - the lackeys of imperialism, traitors to humanity, destroyers of the balance of power between Good and Evil, and now bills have come and will have to pay according to the steepest score. Stalin, his rogues, turned the political police and legal institutions of the state into a cancerous tumor of the Mafia-gravedigger of the Left project and the exterminator of Soviet passionarity. The left project ran into a log of bureaucracy and as the Titanic sank, the nationalist idea of ​​the bureaucracy is Corruption, not Marxism, which they sneered at and destroyed its meanings. the project is the Soviet power, which in the country did not even smell, but smelled of bullshit at all levels, bullshit is sand, and -True, cement, where has it been seen so that a family, home, country, state could be built on sand? - shook and fell, the USSR is the long-suffering Spitak: the foremen even before perestroika sold the Cement to the part-timers, and they themselves were converted from "kamunistov" to businessmen, and, more simply, Suk.

[shitovmg]

People laughed at Gorbachev more than at Brezhnev! The most common joke was: I talked for two hours and said nothing! Under Gorbachev, the CPSU lost all respect among the people. They laughed at the party, mocked the Communists. Gagged them publicly! So the party created the USSR, and it ruined it!

[EsTaF]

Not the party destroyed the USSR, but the United States. Will not be the United States, there will be no problems.

[kashtak]

The Soviet Union did not collapse, the party collapsed first. then the USSR collapsed. several main reasons can be given, economic, political, social, even administrative, but the main thing is not this, but the fact that the foundation has degraded and broken up. and since there was only one party in the country, there was no one to seize control. Now, with regard to what the entire population was doing, the state is a public institution that performs those necessary tasks, the implementation of which directly by citizens is impossible or inefficient. especially in such a centralized state as the USSR. it happened in the 60s, 70s. the appearance of unity, congresses, programs is only the appearance.

[andrew42]

If the United States will not become, there will be another contender for world domination. A holy place is never empty :) They will find another "site".

[HU YOUR]

Quote: Thought Giant

Gorbachev must be hanged as a state criminal, but you cannot return the past,

Nikolay LEONOV. Gorbachev was stupid like a “gray gelding”, as one Gogolevsky hero of the comedy “The Inspector General” said about a city man. What he did, I can’t choose another word for his actions, he did not understand what consequences his actions would lead to.

[Signaller]

La La La. all this. I remember that there was a referendum on the preservation of the USSR. All the people said yes. If, again, we recall, at 22 or somewhere nearby, the signing of the union agreement was appointed. But here the GKChP and everything went to dust. Everyone has forgotten about it now, completely. So it’s interesting, from which then the GKChP is the savior of the USSR ??? He is a funeral team. After all this, not a single republic came to us for signing. They said, In FIG it is necessary. So decide now, who buried the USSR. Yeltsin ???? He only collected what was left after that, no more.

[kashtak]

The State Emergency Committee is not a funeral team, but a provocation that strikes a blow that gave rise to disrupt negotiations on a new union agreement. the referendum that you are talking about was not one question, remember the second? after the Emergency Committee, repeated referenda were held in all republics except the RSFSR, all republics declared sovereignty and received international recognition. they don’t write about it now. prevents translate arrows.

[11111mail.ru]

Quote: Signaller

Yeltsin ???? He only collected what was left

Yeltsin-gatherer? Do not make me laugh! Who shouted from the balcony: grab independence as much as you can swallow! Who in Viskuly signed the pact on the collapse of the USSR?

[Signaller]

Remember, read. And so it’s just a profanation of what was, no more.

[Zomanus]

The Soviet Union was not killed by this handful of people. Just by that time, power had degenerated into some kind of upper class. Moreover, prohibitively prohibiting what she allowed herself. Well, plus the fact that people have forgotten at what price their quiet life was bought. Actually what is happening in the ruin now. They also forgot to whom they owe their trouble-free existence and decided to play adults.

[passing]

[quote = Dart2027] The whole USSR rested on one person - Stalin. Since his death (and most likely murder), gradual degradation began. The very idea of ​​creating a communist society is a utopia. [/ Quote
Exactly. The breakup of the Union began with Khrushchev. The point of the report is his report to the 20th Congress on the cult of personality. Then everything just developed on an increasing basis. The State Emergency Committee had a chance of success if it included a person of the scale of Napoleon. And so the disease went too far - since 1953 too many mistakes have been made. In general, the USSR PROJECT, I think, has prospects in the future, not necessarily in the very near future, but it has ..

[saha6052]

The one who passed by is a case of a non-rogue? "This is a utopia!" and retreating the paragraph- "THE DRAFT USSR, I think, has prospects in the future, not necessarily in the very near, but it has .." ----------- so you decide: "utopia" or still- "has ? "? Could you give an assessment or analysis not to the USSR-project, but for example: to the project-Man? -Where, why and where? What is a thought, image, language, memory, sign, symbol? -If all this is not" utopia? "- then WHAT? Culture, brother, is a formalized utopia invented by Nature through Man: we were born to make a fairy tale -Born! -a -Borge? -You need to be able to think, and then talk with people ...

[passing]

The first two lines are the quoting of other people's words. I determine - "has". About the project I ask you to formulate more precisely.

[saha6052]

"More precisely?" - from the Mind managed to grasp the essence or intuitively? - a person cannot grasp the essence - exactly, but only - more precisely because material meanings are extremely mobile, and the formal conceptual apparatus, in order to "grasp the essence, must stop it, fix it like a slippery fish in the hands, i.e., kill it, and it kills the meanings with signs, symbols, putting them on paper and calling it -THIS-Knowledge, and this knowledge suffers from chronic incompleteness, and even the absence of plasticity (life), and it turns out that the teaching of children is the death of glass eyes of the long-dead in Bose -Authority, and who himself would have made a thousand corrections to this "knowledge" as a calculator in the rocket course. They say Socrates did not know formal literacy? -May understand the flawed formal education and appealed to the development of memory and intellectual mobility? -Real personality! -And not a well-read goof. What do you think?

[passing]

I ask you to excuse me, but it seems that if you want to receive answers to your questions, and not leave them hanging in the void, you need to formulate them a little less voluminous and a little more specific.

[saha6052]

Brevity is not only the sister of tAlanta, but also the lack of content, information, it all depends on the point of view and the ability of the Author to defend his text: something is not entirely clear - you put an emphasis on it, you need explanations - this is the only acceptable way to discover Specificity. The specifics of Human Consciousness is not the specifics of the hands and even the Eyes that are on the forehead, but of the Specific principles of working with information - Images of Real Meanings that you cannot touch with your hands - they are "felt" by Reason-sen Kazakhsha belesemba? You do not see "specifically" a radio wave , An atom, a molecule, not to mention the Higgs bases and even ordinary air, if it is unclouded by dust or smoke? -But it is hardly possible to deny all this Concrete? So, Thought is the most Concrete, but it is far from being seen each.

[passing]

Forgive me, but it seems to me that a deep knowledge of philosophy, clearly visible in your statements, played a bad joke with you. You don’t have a desire to go down to the level of your interlocutor and begin to build a mutually understandable dialogue. As I understand it, this is not your intention. But then your appearance on this forum becomes incomprehensible. You are solely led by a desire to speak out without an accompanying desire to be heard. Or am I mistaken?

[saha6052]

"Are you saying a bad joke?" - this also depends on the angle of view (grief from Mind?) - this is not the heaviest burden in life. What is it, "to omit", dear, we went so far that the eyes crawl out of shame watching the first faces of the state: Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Chernenko and that's all - The tragedy is over, the Farce has begun: Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Putin and parashenko, do you think that we should be at their "level" so as not to fall out of trend? -No, dear (and in vain you call him respected names), better if you come to us? -Raise the bar, even if they don't understand YOU, this is not a reason not to respect people and "simplify" material, and you also need to respect yourself, so bend your line (and I think so!) and YOUR task will not leave stone unturned from my mistakes and delusions, if, of course, it works out.

[EsTaF]

In general, this is not a system. The human factor plays a very important role.

The brighter the wrapper of the system, the more filthy things are done behind it. Most are very avid for bright sparkles. Be it jeans, VCRs, or beautiful appeals for a brighter future.
According to the slogans of patriotic appeals and at a time when the homeland is in danger, it is very easy to sweep people who are objectionable to such a system.

The wealth of the inner world is not empty words. If for the majority this expression is perplexing, then such a majority is very easy to control by saying anything.
In order not to be a slave, you need to work hard. Not passively, when it is already fastening, go to the owner. And from an early age, take an interest in something in life. Love your job.
If this is not the case, no system will help here. No education will teach.
The only thing influenced by the system is to create conditions for work. activities. If business is under the state, then dumb-headed bureaucrats simply will not allow anything to develop. There will be unique ones in the structures of power, but these are exceptions. The very principle of building a business from under a stick is evil. Skolkovo, other projects - even if there were no thieves - nothing would have happened. The state apparatus is not so much a dynamic structure as a business and its dynamics. And the more it develops in terms of the fight against corruption, like a snowball, it will become corrupt itself.

There will not be a freebie - you need to work a little bit to live well. There is only greater evil, portrayed as something paradise and lesser evil, where everything seems to be dull, but the profit is thorough and honest.

[bubla5]

I do not like those who, after the collapse, consider themselves smart and write about it, about --- whether you write the country like that, they could crush the liberals, but they didn’t want to

[Bassoon]

The fifth column is judged by treason, espionage, etc.

[No. 4№y]

Fagot RU Today, 17:04 New
The fifth column is judged by treason, espionage, etc.

The fifth column is still in power and in order to be judged it is necessary to change the constitution written by amers to its own.

[Vlad5307]

The USSR collapsed because after I.V. Stalin, more and more mediocre people stood at the head of state, with each shift. They kept lowering the moral level of leaders all the time, which ultimately led to corruption in the government (remember the 70-80 years and the scandals of that time), moreover, they came to power by kinship. The children of such figures were not even responsible for criminal activity, and all this led to the collapse of the USSR.

[EsTaF]

The USSR collapsed because the people decided that someone would think for it. The system itself was like that. Tsarist regime, Soviet system. Imperial thinking is always a gear with him.
The United States is now headed for the same.

in general, if society does not evolve, then it will revolutionize, a priori.
the consumption of goods, or any other services, without personal investment - it is always cheese in a mousetrap.

Man must grow. Do something yourself. Forbid him to do it, or put sticks in the wheels - this is to shoot himself in the foot.

[EsTaF]

The case was recalled. At 95m, he worked in tire fitting. One client drives up. We talked. A man from Germany. Once he left, back from the USSR and then decided to return, open his own business for the production of meat products. He had his own business in Germany, about 10 years ago. Photos showed the factory. Several shops. With tears in his eyes, he was curtailing his entire business in Moscow. For a month in a row, various inspections came in, fire, geological, and others. From the 92nd year he invested, and then unexpectedly they began to squat. Previously, the same was not very sweet, but the bureaucrats waited for the man to have something to lose.
Our state is very fond of getting into business. To create laws. A lot of laws. Such that, well, you can’t stay clean.
What has changed now? - and now, in general, nickel bolts for this entire business.
Complete monopolization of everything and everything.
as if they were forbidden to sell alcohol in the evenings - offices that are outlawed are opening. Who knows "Karas", he knows what I mean. This is monopolization. Tame to the state, firm.
With smoking the same picture. Our president would smoke - everyone would start smoking. The essence has not changed since the time of Peter.

[Neo1982]

how to break the USSR

[USSR 1971]

The USSR did not die in the full sense of the term. We still use the heritage of a great country, just look at the defense industry and the Strategic Missile Forces.

[EsTaF]

And that’s all over.
IT, mechanical engineering, agriculture.
Elbrus, sko3.143.14uzhenny with IBM in the eighties. vases, dilapidated collective farms and state farms.
People leaving the villages.
I'll tell you about the "legacy of the USSR".
My grandmother worked for 40 years on the railroad under the USSR and died in a hut, where the toilet is on the street. Died in poverty.
If you think that I'm lying, I’m ready to prove it by any means. Come - I will show you my friends, show my mother, who lived with her in this hut in the same room.

Perkhushkovo. a couple of tens of kilometers from Moscow. There is still a move to the newcomers, to government cottages.

And it’s a shame because the commandant of those barracks for the Olympics 80 made all the inhabitants of that barrack paint the fence, because by the train from the west, foreigners will go to Moscow for the Olympics. You had to be proud !!! for your country. And why should she still be proud if she restored the road after the bombings during the war.
I am ashamed that she had to do this, otherwise they would have given less coal for the stove for the winter.

What was behind the screen is not interesting to watch now. Understand.

[saha6052]

Bright memory to the disinterested workers of the country, deceived and betrayed by the obese, bronzed, and remember the letter to the congress-46, it seems that they warned the country and the party about the threat of bureaucracy, then Stalin's falcons shot them so as not to interfere with the construction of the Zoo of the Stalinist period, As the Soviet poet said : "We drove out of town, and outside the city it rains, out of town there are fences, behind fences there are leaders." Compare the distance between Lenin and people and Stalin and people and it will become clear to you who and where bent the Line and what it was. " bending-breaking "is it over?

[Neo1982]

the collapse of the USSR is the result of the coup d'etat of 1953-1991


forward comrades

[dzau]

Quote: Neo1982

forward comrades

Strong cartoon. I watched it from English. subtitles.

[Evilcat]

What the hell is that? The deputy head of the PSU of the KGB of the USSR, the head of the Analytical Directorate of the KGB of the USSR seriously discusses why the USSR fell apart?
Only he who does not suspect what this analytical department was like can believe in this heresy. And the analytical departments were in the GRU, Army counterintelligence, Navy counterintelligence. Wishing to challenge. I will just ignore it. The USSR special services were a MACHINE! and if they missed something, then only on command.
Merged the valiant KGB Union. Leaked! According to the order from above. And now they are making excuses.

[Bayun]

And who said that "the USSR is lost"? Russian Empire - USSR - Russian Federation - Rus. A fairy tale (an analogue of the words "idea", "ideology" in Russian) changes its names, the ESSENCE remains. Russia is alive: inhale - exhale ... In the 90s she exhaled, now she inhales. The time to settle down (dachas have been built, renovated) is passing, the time is coming to rule (and, unfortunately, to fight). Been "where people end": dead corners, 200 miles to the asphalt, the last dates in the abandoned village cemeteries - 1985. There is no feeling of despondency and all the disappearance, there is a persistent feeling that people will return. But already not with another stupid "idea" from the mind, but with the Russian fairy tale of being from the heart. We were born to make reality a fairy tale: to put life on its feet. Russia (USSR) on the foundations of the Babylonian materialist Marx and the Satanist spy Ulyanov - a great devilry (my personal opinion) is difficult to imagine. Further, the devil won over the devil - but is there any point in making the winner "holy"? There is no need to invent anything, you just need to connect the connection of times: from the Russian Empire to the Russian Kingdom (Rus). And watered with blood and sweat of OUR people, the long-suffering and historically necessary bridge of the battle between good and evil - the USSR (where both good and evil were quantitatively greater and qualitatively both were more powerful) to leave forever in memory. Good won (instead of a foreign idea, the Russian faith and fairy tale returned), and our task is to further assert goodness IN RUSSIA.

[saag]

Quote: Bayun

Russ

And what is your concept of Russia? Do you know why Russia is the Russian Federation. and not the Republic of Russia, for example?

[EsTaF]

How does our people love to blame everything on the state ...
whatever it is. yesterday, today. not the point ..

[Samurai3X]

If such a giant as the USSR and its elites calmly bought the United States, and at the same time:
1. The military looked at it through their fingers.
2. The KGB sat and watched the situation develop.
3. The population didn’t give a damn about all this ...
I think that the USSR could not stand the test of time. What's the point in whining about this? The USSR could only save the PRC variant, but the "communists" were caught too greedy. That country cannot be returned. We must try to blind something from this.

[EsTaF]

There is a genetic fear in people to do, create, build something themselves. By order - yes for a sweet soul.
Under steep ideals, steep severity.

[Neo1982]

if a loan of 20% try to build something here

[EsTaF]

And do not sculpt anything. You just need to do your favorite thing.
Estimate - so little is needed for the country to revive :)

[Funnels]

By and large, Russia 1991 = Ukraine 2014, we were simply sold by Gorbachev and the company. Glory to God did not reach the Civil War.

[Neo1982]

Quote: Samurai3X

We must try to make one of this.

Quote: EsTaF

And do not sculpt anything.

sculpt - not sculpt - above all, sovereignty must be restored

[EsTaF]

Predictability of a person is born from his uniformity of actions. Unwillingness to grow. Develop what I started.
A predictable person is very easy to manage. And it will be controlled by everyone who is not lazy.
If a person is alive, then it is very difficult to manage. He can be beaten, he can be killed, but he cannot be conquered. He will go with his bare hands to where the soul lies.
To restore sovereignty, you need a man.

In the meantime, money is being spent on Roskomnadzor, surveillance, cameras and iron fences, bans and stupid laws on retyping hundred-dollar bills, instead of paying teachers. so that there would be a competition for a place among them. To educate and teach people well. This is called - do not look beyond your thick belly.

Even if there is sovereignty, it will only be relative to the United States and Europe. from his own bureaucrats it will not be and the people will again be easy to lure the "west".

[Neo1982]

Quote: EsTaF

To restore sovereignty, you need a man.
In the meantime, money is being spent on Roskomnadzor, surveillance, cameras and iron fences, bans and stupid laws

because they are wasted because there is no sovereignty, although I’m not sure that everything that is being done is definitely bad

... in Ukraine, in general, all the money is spent on the murder of their own people - there is also no sovereignty there

[EsTaF]

"Sovereignty" by itself will not appear. And no amount of power will bring him on a silver platter.

[Neo1982]

To restore sovereignty, you need a man.

Quote: EsTaF

"Sovereignty" by itself will not appear.

the "man" by itself will not appear either ... unless, of course, you take the military option as in the Donbass, where a small group of people resists foreign invaders

[EsTaF]

I will tell you a secret. many people took and appeared and many of them other people still remember.

if the people are forced to fight when they have already brought it to a pen, then this is beneficial for someone. such an axiom. striped, or someone else - but profitable. and if it’s profitable, then the one to whom it was profitable will then reap the rewards. Not in peacetime, people just took and decided to create their own country, having matured. but in difficult times. people pushed !!! forced !! . that on the Maidan, that here - nothing good will come of it, but there are no other options there either.
17th - year. people brought.
Germany 33rd. brought people.
91st - finished.
The results are known.
It's not easy to have a developed country. just the words "must", ahead of the party, and so on here, as it were. not enough or something. It's always convenient to speculate behind bright cool slogans. there are no fairy tales.

[sabakina]

Eh, they scattered the soul with this topic ...

[Funnels]

Thank you very much, I shed a lot of tears. After all, everything is so: the door of the house was not closed, all day in the yard, what?, Where?, How?, From what? do - and did, and worked! And they fought BEFORE THE FIRST BLOOD (and not stumbled to death), and walked with the girls, and did not hang out in taverns, talked with family friends "live", and not via Skype. NOSTALGIA-I want to go to the USSR !!!

[sabakina]

The whole kindergarten walked with green knees, and interestingly, he did not cry! Believe it or not, your right!

[sabakina]

Here I came across ...

[Starmos]

Thank you, I drink and cry, I don’t lie to God! I saved the page, I really want to save it at all ... My mom ... Guys, you can’t, by God, so pull the soul. Thanks you!!!!!!!

[tolmachiev51]

The KGB "missed" the situation, because the very name is state security, or maybe the same Kryuchkov just chickened out / was indecisive, Leonov's statement / and the sea of ​​corrupt creatures, and even now the situation in those in power is no better. For money they are ready to sell everyone and everything and fuck them Russia, their homeland is Israel.

[DV69]

Quote: tolmachiev51

The KGB "missed" the situation, because the very name is state security, or maybe the same Kryuchkov just chickened out / was indecisive, Leonov's statement / and the sea of ​​corrupt creatures, and even now the situation in those in power is no better. For money they are ready to sell everyone and everything and fuck them Russia, their homeland is Israel.

You did not carefully read the article. The KGB did not blink. The situation was directly reported to the leadership of the USSR.
Another thing is that Gorbachev did nothing to change the situation.

[pvv113]

Gorbachev was stupid like a “gray gelding”, as one Gogolevsky hero of the comedy “The Inspector General” said about a city man. What he did, I can’t choose another word for his actions, he did not understand what consequences his actions would lead to.

Or vice versa - very well understood?

[DV69]

Quote: pvv113

Gorbachev was stupid like a “gray gelding”, as one Gogolevsky hero of the comedy “The Inspector General” said about a city man. What he did, I can’t choose another word for his actions, he did not understand what consequences his actions would lead to.

Or vice versa - very well understood?

I think too. that Gorbachev knew perfectly well what he was doing. One of the participants in the gathering in Belovezhskaya Pushcha, I will not say for sure, but in my opinion Burbulis recalled that the participants in this meeting were very afraid that they would come from the KGB and arrest everyone. Garbachev did not give such a command to the Chekists. How did he not give an order to Group A to detain Yeltsin when the latter was on his way to the White House in August 1991? when the State Emergency Committee began.
Draw your own conclusions.

[AVIATOR36662]

You have to be friends with memory. Gorbachev was warming his belly in Foros when the "GKChP began" and was isolated from the outside world by the same GKChP. And the fact that he returned to Moscow is a living merit only of Yeltsin (and Gorbachev's personal guard). Another thing is that history cannot be changed, and in hindsight, all good and heroes, all shield themselves.

[gunya]

[quote = Deff] [quote = Civil]! The USSR died because:
Although everyone warned and said that it was necessary to start such a process primarily from farms. It was agricultural cooperatives and people's aspirations that allowed them to raise the village and free enterprises and intelligentsia from the rampant autumn harvest forcing, which significantly reduced GDP in the same defense industry complex, the payment for which during the period of suffering was up to 20-30% of GDP [/ quote]
Dear, not from farms, but from putting things in order in the farm. You do not know much about agricultural, its problems and needs.

[sxn278619]

The USSR collapsed because labor productivity in it was 4 times lower than in the United States and the standard of living was 6-8 times lower due to the incompetence of the Politburo (armament parity, assistance).
The naive people wanted to live in Europe.
Now in Russia labor productivity is again 4 times lower than in the United States (in terms of GDP per worker) and living standards are 3 times lower (freebie for oil and gas prices).
Gorbachev wanted to do something, but he was a typical party functionary.
And all these KGB analysts were just as mediocre as their party leaders.

[DV69]

Quote: sxn278619

The USSR collapsed because labor productivity in it was 4 times lower than in the United States and the standard of living was 6-8 times lower due to the incompetence of the Politburo (armament parity, assistance).
The naive people wanted to live in Europe.
Now in Russia labor productivity is again 4 times lower than in the United States (in terms of GDP per worker) and living standards are 3 times lower (freebie for oil and gas prices).
Gorbachev wanted to do something, but he was a typical party functionary.
And all these KGB analysts were just as mediocre as their party leaders.

Thanks to parity with the USA, the USSR did not allow the Americans to behave as they behave now.
The standard of living in the United States was higher than in the USSR, not only because of labor productivity. Do you know why the Americans in those days dated the middle class? To show how they (under capitalism) live well. USSR collapsed and where is the American middle class now?
And at the expense of Gorbachev. He did everything he wanted. There is no USSR superpower, there is no US counterweight.
something like that.

[saha6052]

"And about Gorbachev. He did everything he wanted. There is no USSR superpower, there is no counterbalance to the United States.
something like that. "----- so, but not quite so! Superpower is an advantage (domination) primarily as a human material-Citizen! -we had it?

[miv110]

GDP in the states and in our country was determined differently. This has long been known and therefore it is not mechanically correct to compare them mechanically.

[Roman 11]

Quote: sxn278619

Now in Russia labor productivity is again 4 times lower than in the United States (in terms of GDP per worker) and living standards are 3 times lower (freebie for oil and gas prices).

DO NOT read capitalist newspapers! Productivity is a vague concept, the first lever that determines it is the surplus percentage of profit, and the more it is, the more productivity. 1nd labor organization + vertical (this of course includes literate, read non-corrupt, read without nepotism, etc., etc. even better talented - MANUAL). 2rd constant understatement of costs (here, the constant development of promising technologies, corruption or lobbying in the Senate for the supply of raw materials, tax incentives, various discounts on social contributions and programs, + this eternally "hungry" trade union, etc., etc. ) In short, the bottom line is a few REALLY brilliant companies like EPEL, and highly profitable Microsoft, Google, Coca Cola with a PRODUCTIVITY 3, and maybe 4, 5 times higher than the Soviet economic system. Then a dozen, another with a productivity 6 times higher than the Soviet ........ Then almost three quarters as in the Soviet economy, then almost a quarter of the economy is below the productivity of the Soviet planned, and then some from 2, 5 - to ... .% part of society in general outside the economy, which needs to be supported in the form of unemployment benefits, rentiers and the homeless do not count ....... although for the homeless there are also social programs for shelters, free meals, but this is a rare phenomenon. Hence, the capital economy is more structured and less equitable in the allocation of resources to society, read the corresponding distribution of productivity, which again led to the existence of an ugly system where 6% of society has 10% of capital - see Wall Street in 90. The performance of the middle class depends on many, many variables and is therefore regulated by them.

[Realjyk]

Eh, such a country was pumped up ... Our ancestors collected it with blood and blood for a thousand years, and we for 5 years ....

[DV69]

Quote: RealJyk

Eh, such a country was pumped up ... Our ancestors collected it with blood and blood for a thousand years, and we for 5 years ....

Everything must be done for Togo, one hundred would not be ashamed of either our ancestors or the descendants.

[sigdoc]

I don’t think that the separation of the Balts, Georgians and crests made us worse; in the USSR the Finns and Poles weren’t too missed. The only thing we felt sorry for then was Crimea

[Starmos]

Why?.... Until now?... The so-called President of the Russian Federation... will not call to account those who contributed to the collapse of the Country? Why are Gorbachev and the Yeltsin family still prospering? Why was Chubais not publicly executed? Why does Sobchak's spawn roll around like cheese in butter? Putin! If you consider yourself a Russian man, answer the PEOPLE!!!!! Otherwise, if you are an Officer, and you know HONOR, then you yourself know what needs to be done!!!! THE PEOPLE ARE WAITING!!! BELIEVE AND WAIT!!! BYE...

[sergey261180]

Quote: Starmos

Putin! If you consider yourself a Russian man, answer the PEOPLE!!!!!

Not everything is so simple in politics.

Kippah is a kind of symbol of Jewish religiosity
ENCYCLOPEDIA "JEWISH WORLD"

[Ivan 63]

Russia achieved its greatest development precisely during the times of the USSR, and specifically under Stalin. Khrushchev marked the beginning of the fall, but it was Gorbachev or Judas who completed the defeat of the Union, and it was not without reason that the State Department opened up that for the collapse it was enough to put several traitors and changelings in key places. But I despise Yeltsin most of all; I just can’t understand how it was possible to vote for a moron and an idiot at whom the whole world was making fun of and largely thanks to whom an obviously negative and mocking attitude was created towards the people of Russia, as having chosen this buffoon as their leader.

[Tanechka-clever]

I don’t want to either upvote or downvote this article.
Recently, a strange tendency has emerged in the media - to whitewash Gorbachev, who, as an “innocent child”, did not know what was going on around him, and to denigrate Yeltsin as a villain who, together with other villains, destroyed the USSR.
This is a vivid example of how historical truth can be rewritten, and answers the main question - “Is it possible to manipulate millions of people?” I answer on my own behalf - it is possible and EASY when the media is under your control, or better yet, is your property. There are more than enough examples today in Ukraine, the USA and the EU - where all media are under the frankly sinister censorship of “democracy”.
“.. anyway, the USSR expected the end..” - the sad fate of the USSR only shows that the fate of their people is always decided by men and nothing is eternal. The “eternal flame” burns only if someone watches, protects and stores it.
The miserable and impoverished neighborhoods in Africa demonstrate this especially clearly - where the birth rate is high, but the standard of living is at the lowest, and even education makes little difference to the situation. In such a society, children are only a product of the satisfaction of animal instinct by a man, but does not bear social responsibility to his children. Procreating without obligation is a manifestation of selfishness, which is not capable of changing life for its offspring. After the collapse of the USSR, there was the highest percentage of divorces, and even today those evading alimony are extremely high. Why complicate your life when you can fly like a “bee” from flower to flower. And a man must maintain the fire in the hearth in the house - repair and bring firewood, and this is a sacred duty, then there will be no rapists. But it’s difficult for one and men protect the community hearth - together. What is natural for a woman, a man is forced to cultivate it in himself, pacifying vicious passions within himself - it’s not for nothing that nature ordered it this way.

It’s not for me to criticize or deny what is stated in the article, but I’ll just say the following - you shouldn’t always believe your own eyes, but it’s better to check. Gorbachev is a traitor and this cannot be refuted, and he did everything on purpose to hand over the country to the United States, as Poroshenko is doing today. If not for Yeltsin, the scenario would have been no less bloody and terrible. Yeltsin is, of course, not an angel, but sometimes situations force you to act according to the situation, he made every effort so that you don’t lose more than what we lost.
The Bolshevik fathers gave their children a new form of life, and the children betrayed their fathers and abused them.
“It is not the consciousness of people that determines their existence, but, on the contrary, their social existence determines their consciousness.” Or is it the other way around......

[EsTaF]

Quote: Tanya-umunechka

I don’t want to either upvote or downvote this article.
Recently, a strange trend has emerged in the media - to whitewash Gorbachev

If such a trend had emerged, then there would have been neither Glazyev’s speeches in June last year, nor, accordingly, the American provocations and incitements. As a result, there would be no Maidan and Crimea + south-eastern heating up. Well, there wouldn’t be such patriotism on the topic of which one could push the hunchback even deeper. and not only the hunchbacked one.

[Foxbed]

Ordinary people never lived better than in the post-war USSR... Yes, there may not have been abundance, but there was enough for everyone. There were a lot of happy people. Collective farms were rich. And then everything was destroyed, plundered, appropriated. Who managed to loot - the oligarchs now the “elite” too. Those who “didn’t understand what was happening” either drank themselves to death or are stuck living from paycheck to paycheck.
ps: A simple example...During my childhood, my parents (mother a barmaid, father a welder) bought and sold a house 3 times until my father, after 10 years of work, received a free apartment. And now how many years will it take to pay a mortgage for a two-room apartment in " center"????

[sergey261180]

Quote: Foxbed

Now how many years will it take to pay a mortgage for a two-room apartment in the “center”????

It’s easier to take a concrete mixer and a shovel and make a house yourself.

[EsTaF]

>Ordinary people have never lived better than in the post-war USSR.

My mother fell ill with disentery in 1953. This is Moscow. Her mother applied to several hospitals to get her treated, but to no avail. I went to hospitals in tears and everywhere I turned from the gate - “there is no room.”
There was still a festival then. Grandmother (her mother) went to Red Square and hung up a sign “Help, my daughter is dying.” Mother was 5 years old at the time.
They took me to the authorities within 10 minutes.
They held me for some time and released me. And only a week later they found a hospital. During that time, the disinterry plant devoured all the flora, but it’s good that it remained alive.
Grandmother worked on the railroad for 40 years. Belarusian direction. She lived her whole life in a barracks near the Perkhushkovo station. toilet on the street, neighbors drinking every day, fights at night. I wouldn’t want anyone to experience that horror. Poor conditions.
Yes. Some people lived well. I do not argue. But many, apparently, have forgotten so many moments and where these moments all came from. The people relied on the authorities. I did what they said. The party is our helmsman.
And whoever was against it was a traitor. Because he is not the majority, which cannot make mistakes.
And many people lived quietly and cautiously. They didn’t want to look like traitors, even if they had less foolish views. But what should they do if people don’t want to think and rush to the first tasty thought. And so they drag themselves along with everyone else.
And then these same people get involved in cronyism - “what! now is perestroika!!! Yelltsyyyn”, and then they go to Auchan in foreign cars in crowds, and these people are already crushed and live like that.

Forward!!! To the USSR2!!! brains that will run to the west again - there are still a lot of them!!! TRAITORS!

[LCA]

Without knowledge of the convergence project, it is impossible to understand the reason for the liquidation of the USSR and the socialist camp. Discharging the suicidal potential of global civilization was envisioned in the project of convergence of two opposing systems, which (at least since H.G. Wells’ visit to Soviet Russia in 1920) has been developing both in terms of theoretical justification (starting with Pitirim Sorokin) and in terms of its promotion into real politics (F.D. Roosevelt, J.F. Kennedy, Yu.V. Andropov, M.S. Gorbachev).

The convergence project is focused on the unification of social management on a global scale and involves the construction of a socio-economic system that has the virtues of Marxist pseudo-socialism and capitalism based on the ideas of liberalism and, at the same time, free from their shortcomings. At present, this project is the basis of the Global Predictor policy hidden from the layman in relation to all countries and, in particular, in relation to their civilized part.

It was during the implementation of the convergence project at the first stage that Marxist pseudo-socialism in the USSR and in other countries of the socialist camp under the leadership of the KGB of the USSR and the Central Committee of the CPSU was eliminated. And now, at the second stage, the next step is the elimination of bourgeois liberalism. These circumstances are key to understanding the roles of the KGB of the USSR and Yu.V. Andropov personally in the liquidation of the USSR and the world system of Marxist pseudo-socialism, as well as everything that happens in post-Soviet Russia and in global politics.

[EsTaF]

What kind of "convergence" is that?
For hundreds of years, the people were serfs and they look any power in the face. Any initiative of your own is a sin!
It’s good that such a president is in power. He definitely doesn’t look at the situation without tears. It's a gift to have such a president. But, after all, people must think with their own heads! help him. Even in small things.
Where are the people? - and people are every man for himself. dachas, nags! yes Friday.
People are afraid to do the “wrong” thing. pessimism in my head, but somehow I can’t see anything good.

We will get out from under the stick again. but it's all artificial. It will only spoil the people, as under Stalin, when the people relaxed and looked into the leader’s mouth.
Of course, all this is great, but under pressure, it won’t last long. The good, kind leader left and the whole house of cards fell apart.
It’s better to let it be hard, but let the people do it themselves! started doing something. own farming, survival. and the state should protect this, and not interfere with human development.
But in our country this has never happened and never will happen. It is very big, this country and the people are very slave. Yes. minus. but that's how it is, people.
I think that I am a slave, because I am afraid of many things. I’m writing now, but I’m afraid. because all these posts will be stored and I don’t know what will happen in a year or two. Our people are very susceptible to bright patriotic ideas. Why look a few steps ahead when here it is! happiness!

And the Americans - . In fact. like the Europeans. I'm talking about politicians and those who hinder development in our country. By doing what they are doing, they are only using the hands of our officials to paint the country even more in Soviet colors and tighten the screws.
From this a simple conclusion is drawn - so what. It’s good for them that minds come to them for permanent residence. only Russian people don’t feel very good about this.

[rfv0304]

The general writes nonsense!!! He's just trying to make excuses. But it won't work. Life will still take its toll on such Judas or fools (although horseradish is no sweeter than radish). During this time I served in Lithuania. I served in the military registration and enlistment office, so I know the situation and the situation at that time much better than the then heads of the pseudo-KGB. And already in the nineties I was in Lithuania several times. And I saw perfectly well how the mood of ordinary people and the so-called middle class was changing and changing. It’s good for the rich under any system. But now the whole bet is not on the worker or peasant. That's the problem. The generation of current oligarchs and rulers will die out, and their sons will grow old. Then the time will come for another Lenin and a new Oktyabrskaya.

[clidon]

Why do you think that “the sons will go crazy”? In many developed capitalist countries, this does not seem to be observed - everything goes the other way around, towards some kind of smoothness of socialism, so that there are no explosions. And so on until the crisis.

PS As for the USSR, it relied on ideology as a frame. By the 80s, the frame had become worn out and acquired shades of formality. Everything fell down.

[Xab]

In a country like ours, it is necessary not to change power, but to appoint a king and pass the throne on by inheritance. Only the royal family will have a vested interest in the well-being of the country. A simple example is England.

Quote: Civil

CCCP died because:
! The people who inhabited him finger to finger did not hit in order to save their country, exchanged socialism for chewing gum, jeans and Coca-Cola.
2. Lying in society has become the norm.
3. There was no change of leadership.

[RAE8]

A natural result of replacing the national policy of the Russian Empire with the national policy of the USSR

[Privat]

Quote: EsTaF

Elbrus, demolished by IBM in the eighties

Do not write about what you do not know.
Elbrus is a completely unique development of the S. A. Lebedev Institute of Precision Mechanics and Computer Science of the Russian Academy of Sciences. It was designed to process very large amounts of information (satellite photographs), so its architecture was initially designed with parallelism of computational threads and scaling (multiprocessing).
A copy of the IBM 360/370 was the ES line of computers, and not only the machines were copied, but also the element base - microcircuits from Texas Instruments. This was done by NICEVT.
Another clone was the CM Computer (DEC) machines. It was on them that your beloved UNIX (Linux) first appeared.
Maybe copying was not the best strategy, but it made it possible to quickly saturate all areas of production with computer technology and, most importantly, to train a large number of competent engineers and programmers.
We still live on these grounds.

[Barakuda]

And they copied them in a fun way, peeling off the mikruh layer by layer, it took half a year.

[Privat]

Absolutely.
This was called "layer-by-layer scribing".
This is how we got microcircuits of the 133 and 155 series (TTL), and then 500 (ESL).

[Barakuda]

“its architecture was originally designed with parallelism of computational threads and scaling (multiprocessing)”

Also, what parallelism! I taught first in 90. Thing !

[VNP1958PVN]

He couldn’t even understand how to manage the processes of his own actions that he carried out, so now asking Gorbachev is the same as asking from a goat milk, which the goat simply does not have!

About the goat, of course, it was definitely noted, only he was just pretending to be a fool - if he had been a douchebag, he wouldn’t have lived in Germany with party gold in his bosom, he celebrated birthdays in England - but stood on the porch, or given the popular love of the former USSR - he left ahead of us Shevardnadze - tfu on both of them!

[Barakuda]

There is nothing to eat, but the parish arranges parades. From under the stick. I’ll go and have a look at the remaining, painted equipment.
And Kyiv was once the world leader in computer engineering. Until Khrushch failed everything.

[Circle]

Why should Gorbachev be tried?

[kompotnenado]

Yes, he's just a weirdo with a capital M.

[andrew42]

My grandfather told me back in 1988, “Gorbachev is an agent of influence. There are moles in the Politburo.” But it was funny to me, at 16 years old intelligence does not matter, there is no database in the form of experience. In 1993, it became obvious: Gorbi - Yakovlev - Shevardnadze - anti-Soviet and anti-Russian agents at the top level, Yeltsin and his hangers-on in the "party" - were the 2nd echelon. And these are just those who are well known! The economic power of the USSR feeds us to this day; it’s all about the ability of the state elite to defend themselves and their country. Banal complacency, complacency, reluctance to modernize the system of selection of management personnel while simultaneously tightening selection, stupid repetition of political slogans of 30 years ago - this is the reason for the death of the USSR. That is why the “Gorby gang” was able to pick up the banner of “modernization,” which in fact turned out to be Liquidation. And the State Emergency Committee relied on Gorbachev to the last, although the first thing was to simply destroy him. About the call to ordinary members of the party (now the oxomina of annoying communism has already dissolved, and with a clear mind one can operate the “party” as an instrument for generating a ruling national elite) - this is a common sense thought, as is the note that there was NO such call! As a result, Gorbi's comrades destroyed the country. And then they played a game of “good-bad” investigators with the Yeltsinoids. All this clearly shows what a powerful economy, a powerful army and social institutions are worth if the top of the elite is attacked by changelings. All this power, all this investment is WORTH NOTHING. This is especially relevant today, when Putin’s modernization of the armed forces and oil and gas bludgeon are applauded. Russia is weak, weak primarily due to the lack of a sane concept of a political-economic trinity, and weak due to the lack of a generator of a real national elite that will promote, fill and protect this device. One symbol is Putin. Well, maybe a couple of real like-minded people. That's all. Tomorrow a new Gaidar will come out and hello, Russia.

[AstanaKZ]

God bless you Nikolai Sergeevich with great health! Live to be a hundred years old and write the TRUTH, let the corrupt liberals and blind Nazis sniffle silently in two holes!

[Vladimirovna]

Yes, Gorbachev knew what he was doing! He deliberately ruined the country!

[Listen grandfather]

Gorbachev was stupid, like a “gray gelding,” as one Gogol hero said...
And he was also stupid as a plug

[Roman 11]

The USSR was destroyed by the hunchback! I wouldn’t be surprised if he is confidentially one of the richest on earth, at the level of the Rothschild, Morgan and Rockefeller clans. It is clear that the Yankees bought him and his gang. I clearly remember all the politics since 1985, all the so-called “reforms of perestroika”. How chaotically and inconsistently they were carried out, akin to the whims of children....... First they took on one thing, then, without waiting for the result, they came up with another, people far from the economy and economy came to the places, and this, in the conditions of the adoption of glasnost, thereby giving birth directly from above to the division of the corrupt national nomenklatura with outright sabotage of local orders and the subsequent erosion of the vital and necessary VERTICAL of power for ANY state. The fact that the hunchback and his gang were bought can be clearly understood by the “DRY LAW”, which was supposed to cause discontent among ordinary workers, especially the way it was implemented began to clearly confirm that something was wrong at the top of the elite. As a result, in 1991, almost no one came out to defend the Union, this is terrible, of course, considering that 50 years ago huge masses were sent to defend the system, by the way, a good system.

[Talgat]

The Eurasian state is always reborn under a new name - Attila (the army consisted of the ancestors of the Kipchaks + Alans + Slavs = our great-grandfathers) took Rome, then the great-grandsons of these same people took Berlin in 1945, between them there was Dasht and Kipchak and the Golden Horde - then Russia and the USSR - but the essence is the same - and the enemy is the same - east on one side - west on the other

[Ryuuk]

Yes, it was a great country... and the main thing is that the referendum was held and the majority of Soviet people spoke in favor of preserving the USSR... But those who started the collapse of the Union had already divided it among themselves, so they didn’t care about the results of the referendum. I agree with the text of the article that if the State Emergency Committee had raised the party, they would have scattered all the so-called democrats. I once read that near Yeltsin’s dacha, special forces were sitting, ready to take him or liquidate him upon orders. The order was not given. Sheer softness and lack of decisiveness on the part of the State Emergency Committee... Probably everyone could not choose between preserving the Great Power and receiving benefits from its collapse. If we think about the good qualities of the USSR from an everyday/consumer point of view, then earlier it was possible to travel around the entire Union on vacation, but now my salary with a higher education is enough for a one-way ticket to the regional center - democracy....

[commander]

Quote: Starmos

Otherwise, if you are an Officer, and you know HONOR, then you yourself know what needs to be done!!!! THE PEOPLE ARE WAITING!!! BELIEVE AND WAIT!!! BYE...

Do you know what awaits the people? I don’t want revenge, but I assume many don’t either.

I noticed that they often began to hide behind the opinion of the people. Is it difficult for you to write on your own behalf, for example, Vova, I don’t respect you as an officer. I’M WAITING, I BELIEVE for now.

[Gomel]

NDA ...
but generally true