"Seven minutes of flight of rockets to Moscow"

75
"Seven minutes of flight of rockets to Moscow"One of the most important Soviet-American treaties 80-ies of the last century - on medium and short-range missiles (INF) - can again be the subject of negotiations between Moscow and Washington. The United States is worried about the possibility of Russia’s withdrawal from the INF Treaty. However, such a decision, if it is made, is likely to hit primarily the interests of Russia itself.

Office spokeswoman Marie Harf said that Moscow had sent a proposal to discuss at the highest level the implementation of the Treaty on Intermediate-Range and Short-Range Missiles (INF).

“If the United States leaves the INF, Russia will have the opportunity to criticize Washington for shaking up strategic stability.”

The time and place of the upcoming meeting is still unknown. However, it is clear that Vladimir Putin’s speech in the Crimea was the catalyst for the White House’s reaction, where he declared that Moscow could unilaterally withdraw from international treaties, as Washington had done in its time.

“The United States took and unilaterally withdrew from the Treaty on the Limitation of Strategic Offensive Arms, and the matter is over,” Putin said. - They proceeded, as they consider, for reasons of their national security. And we will do exactly the same thing when we consider it profitable and necessary to ensure our interests. ”

Lost in Translation

What kind of contract the Russian president was talking about is not entirely clear. Perhaps he simply made a reservation, confusing the ABM Treaty with START. However, for Washington, the message turned out to be more than understandable - the first thing they remembered was the INF, the indefinite Treaty on the Elimination of Medium and Small-Range Missiles, signed by Moscow and Washington on December 8 December 1987. The parties to the agreement pledged not to produce, test or deploy ground-based ballistic and cruise missiles of medium - from 1 thousand to 5,5 thousand - and small - from 500 to 1 thousand kilometers - range.

Under the agreement from Moscow, such complexes as the Pioneer RSD-10, ground-based cruise missiles RK-55 Granat, as well as Temp-S and Oka tactical missiles, were hit by Moscow. Washington removed from West Germany and subsequently destroyed the Pershing-2 and BGM-109G missile systems, the land-based analogue of the Tomahawk cruise missile. By June 1991, the USSR destroyed 1846 of its missile systems. The US responded by destroying the 846 missiles.

“Withdrawal from the INF is really allowed under Article XV.2 with a six-month notice if one of the parties decides that“ the exceptional circumstances associated with the content of this Treaty jeopardized its highest interests, ”the head of the International Security Center told the VZGLYAD newspaper IMEMO RAS Alexei Arbatov.

The issue of Moscow's implementation of the INF Treaty came under suspicion in Washington back in 2011. Then the United States accused Russia of testing the RS-26 Rubezh missile, nicknamed the “missile defense killer” at the suggestion of Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, and the R-500 operational-tactical cruise missile used on the Iskander-K complex. In response, it was pointed out that the United States itself tested missiles for missile defense systems, the production of armed missiles drones and the creation of a unified launcher Mk-41 capable of launching ASROC, Sea Sparrow, ESSM and Tomahawk medium-range cruise missiles.

“Once again, one can rejoice at the pragmatism of the Americans,” believes Dmitry Polikanov, Vice-President of the PIR Center. - Americans traditionally do not like international legal shackles, so it would be a sin not to take advantage of the situation and not reset the restrictions on the INF. Moreover, when all the blame for this can be hung on Russia, pulling out dubious light stories three years ago, the situation in Ukraine and God knows what else. It is not excluded that everything will end with Washington’s withdrawal from the treaty, as it once happened with the ABM Treaty. ”

Former chief of staff of the strategic missile forces Viktor Yesin, on the contrary, believes that breaking the contract is counterproductive for both countries.

"Militarily, the benefits are not visible," says Esin. “In fact, we are returning to 40 years ago, when the United States launched the Pershing-108 missiles in Germany for 2. Then there really was the danger of a “decapitating strike” on the Soviet system of nuclear deterrence. A total of 7 UM 10 minutes of missile flights to Moscow - and all of our strategic forces control points have been destroyed. After withdrawal from the INF Treaty, the missiles can be delivered even in the Baltic States. ”

Wind correction

Alexei Arbatov says that breaking the Russian-American treaties has never provided the parties with at least some advantage.

“The withdrawal of the United States from the ABM Treaty in 2002 was a huge mistake by the Americans,” said the expert. - Now many people in Washington recognize this. After all, the ambitious plans to create an NMD system have not been realized. For example, under a contract, they could deploy strategic anti-missiles to 100, and they plan to deploy all ground-based 2020 interceptors by 40 in the year. All questions of the deployment of a limited missile defense system for protection against medium-range missiles of third countries could also be resolved by agreeing on amendments to the treaty from the 1972 year. But it turned out that the entire process of reducing offensive strategic weapons was at a standstill. Moreover, both Russia and China forced their offensive missile and missile defense programs in response. So why was the garden fussing? ”- asks Arbatov.

Former chief of the 4 th defense research institute of the Ministry of Defense, responsible for the justification and counting of damage when using nuclear weapons, Vladimir Dvorkin is not less categorical.

“We already have everything necessary to restrain our near and far neighbors,” the general told the LOOK to the newspaper. - We have intercontinental missiles and strategic bombers, who with the help of cruise missiles can solve any medium-range tasks without going beyond the borders of the country. And for that, today we do not need missiles of either small or medium range. If someone comes into the head to get out of the INF, it will not be a military decision, but a purely political decision. ”

Dvorkin is sure that in this situation both sides will feel uncomfortable. Only in recent years, Russia has tested and put into service three strategic missile systems: the Topol-M of the mine and mobile base, the mobile multi-unit complex RS-24 "Yars" and the new naval ballistic missile "Bulava".

Americans have a situation similar to ours. They can always “reach the enemies” individually or in a crowd from their own territory with the help of intercontinental missiles. But to create anti-missiles, without violating the INF, it turns out badly.

Intercontinental misalliance

“If the United States leaves the INF, Russia, of course, will have the opportunity to criticize Washington for shaking strategic stability,” says Dmitry Polikanov. “But then, the Americans will have their hands free to create new types of weapons, and, if desired, their placement in Europe under the sauce of counteraction against“ Russian aggression. ”

“This is a return to a full-scale Cold War,” said General Dworkin. “And it will be a military-political catastrophe.”

Experts agree that consultation is needed anyway. Neither Moscow nor Washington is in reality planning a breakdown in relations with the INF.

“Withdrawal from the INF Treaty will give Russia the opportunity to deploy medium-range missiles suitable for use against third countries, but without any influence on the strategic balance with Washington,” said Alesya Arbatov, “but in this case Washington will have the opportunity to deploy medium-range missiles at Allied territories in Europe. Moreover, unlike the beginning of 1980, these missiles, as a result of NATO expansion eastward, will sweep the entire Russian territory to the Urals and beyond with the shortest flight time. There will be a serious strategic imbalance, not to mention the beginning of a completely new, as it seemed recently, “forgotten” stage of confrontation with the West. ”
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  1. SergeyM
    +24
    23 August 2014 07: 59
    Putin’s statement is not a way out of the agreement. This is only a signal to our opponents that we can also respond.
    1. +12
      23 August 2014 08: 18
      “The US withdrawal from the ABM Treaty in 2002 is a huge mistake for the Americans,” the expert is sure. “Now many in Washington recognize this.”


      Note: not we this porridge was brewed.
      1. nvv
        nvv
        +15
        23 August 2014 08: 41
        And I like this one more ....... The Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (1996) is also very good for denunciation. It is with the withdrawal from this treaty that I would begin. It is necessary to adopt a law on the denunciation of this agreement both in the State Duma (in three readings at once) and in the Federation Council. And by evening, they would show us on television the following picture: in his office, Vladimir Putin, in the presence of Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, signs a law on Russia's withdrawal from this treaty:
        - Sergey Kuzhugetovich, how quickly are we ready to make a nuclear explosion in the atmosphere at the Novaya Zemlya training ground?
        “At least 10 minutes after you, Comrade Supreme Commander-in-Chief, enter the codes for the combat use of missiles (here we are talking about the so-called“ nuclear suitcase - author's comment), ”the Minister of Defense clearly reported,“ and if you drop the charge from bomber - then we need a few hours to prepare.
        - Uh ... it’s not necessary so quickly - Putin smiled. I order you to conduct a test of a nuclear warhead with a capacity of 100 kilotons in the atmosphere at the Novaya Zemlya nuclear test site in a week!
        “There is, Comrade Supreme Commander!” - Sergey Shoigu stood at attention.
        - Still, we need to give time to our Western partners, or they have satellites over New Earth there and mobile communications work ... After all, all this will suffer from an electromagnetic pulse. - Vladimir Putin thought for a second, having gone into his memories, and said with nostalgia: Whether it was under Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev — he took and exploded the Tsar bomb — the seismic wave circled the globe three times already. But we don’t plan to intimidate our western partners? Yes? We are only testing nuclear charges that have been idle for too long.
        - That's right, Vladimir Vladimirovich!
        “Go and prepare the warhead tests, Sergey Kuzhugetovich!”
        - There is! - Army General Shoigu energetically headed for the exit.
        The television announcer once again recalled the date of the upcoming nuclear tests in the atmosphere. Within a minute, the world’s information broadcast became hot. And everyone forgot that there is such a country like Ukraine and that someone is constantly in
        1. +1
          23 August 2014 10: 43
          nvv (4) SU Today, 08: 41 ↑
          Testing sites of the world: 1. Amchitka Island, Alaska (USA);
          http://file3.ingeos.tj/04/78/89/filestore/%D0%9B%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F%2
          01% D0% BD..pdf
          "Lecture 1. On the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty (CTBT)"
        2. Uriah Mushroom
          +5
          23 August 2014 13: 14
          Oh, memories of the future ...
        3. sergey261180
          0
          23 August 2014 17: 49
          Quote: nvv
          Sergey Kuzhugetovich, how quickly we are ready to make a nuclear explosion in the atmosphere at the Novaya Zemlya training ground

          What the fuck in the atmosphere? Underground is safe and no less sykot. In fact, it is necessary to resume testing for a long time, otherwise suddenly, after a lapse of time, the charge will not explode, and then all these puffing up cheeks will simply be zilch.
          1. +2
            24 August 2014 14: 22
            Quote: sergey261180
            it’s necessary to resume testing for a long time,
            Do not throw money into the wind! For a long time, all processes are modeled and miscalculated on super computers. We have such a 3-th place in the world in terms of speed. The first is CHINA, however.
            Quote: sergey261180
            suddenly, over time, the charge will not explode
            I don’t know how they are, but we’ll explode. Exactly - it will explode! The regulation (protocol) is strictly observed.
        4. +5
          24 August 2014 00: 42
          All this is garbage.
          In our country, mechanical plants are closing in batches. And how many bearing factories do we have left? All bearings are Chinese .. Who will deny?
          Guys! Like him .. who talks a lot .. promises the most powerful army .. Rogozin ..
          We need vocational schools with specialists, and the rest is from the evil one and Rogozin ... I apologize for it ..
          1. +2
            24 August 2014 02: 10
            yes no recently bought domestic bearings not GPZ of course, but our
      2. +6
        23 August 2014 12: 08
        Quote: subbtin.725
        Note: we didn’t brew this porridge.

        After withdrawing from the INF Treaty, missiles can be delivered even in the Baltic states


        brothers expert liberoids do not take into account many factors, namely -
        -in such a situation, if 3,14ndos decide to introduce their missiles into NATO countries, the Russian Federation will be forced to launch INF troops starting from Cuba to Nicaragua! Up to orbiting satellites with nuclear weapons and non-recoverable nuclear mines along the US marine perimeter.

        As a condition for withdrawal from the INF Treaty, Russia can set a condition - their placement only on national territory. And no anti-missile missile defense in foreign territories too. For any missile defense and even long-range air defense missile (the so-called "long arm") can quite easily hit ground targets with a special charge with a factor of up to x3 in range. Those. an S400 system missile with an intercept range of 400 km can fly up to 1200 km in ballistics ...
        1. +2
          24 August 2014 13: 34
          Quote: Rus2012
          For any missile defense and even long-range air defense missile (the so-called "long arm") can quite easily hit ground targets with a special charge with a factor of up to x3 in range. Those. an S-400 missile with an interception range of 400 km can fly up to 1200 km in ballistics ...

          And considering that the A-135 complex missile strikes at a range of up to 600 km (-70 altitude), the final speed is enough to intercept targets flying at a speed of 7 km / s and has an active area of ​​only 12 seconds, it turns out to be very unpleasant for the enemy thing wassat
          Something quickly took off, and if you didn’t have time to track 12 seconds of acceleration, then something will fly in and it is almost impossible to detect it before arrival wassat
        2. +3
          24 August 2014 14: 42
          Quote: Rus2012
          C400 missile with 400km intercept range can fly up to 1200km in ballistics ...

          So the Americans combed their hair and snapped their beaks when they learned that the C-500 was approaching, and the Iskander would launch the second missile of the Kyrgyz Republic (P-500). Yes, the talker Rogozin about the R-26 asana sang. Yes, our Tu-22M3 in the Crimea will be placed ...
          No, not ICE! USers decided and began to scratch their turnips: what to do !? They are fictitious through and through, however! Although they left the contract, they did not receive a decisive advantage, but they untied our hands. They’re afraid they know for sure that they’ll be scammed here too, and they will put their unreasonable allies under our ax. And they kick, do not want to under the ax, they want to live, bastards.
    2. AVV
      +6
      23 August 2014 10: 03
      And the answer will be in the form of creating new railway complexes with new missiles, which the United States is very afraid of !!! And with partners on the American continent it will be possible to agree on the deployment of strike systems similar to the Caribbean crisis, as well as the deployment of a group of SU-34 aircraft, which our "friends" would not feel very comfortable in their home over the hill !!!
      1. +4
        23 August 2014 14: 24
        Quote: AVV
        And the answer will be

        Which contract will be denounced and which will not matter is not important.
        It is important that the United States and those who join them know that if they get guaranteed retaliation.
        Contracts only live happily ever after when they are mutually beneficial.
        And examples of "junk" contracts, though concluded in compliance with all legal subtleties, are a dime a dozen.
    3. Victor R
      0
      23 August 2014 11: 19
      VVP perfectly represents the game with the Pentagon. Thimble game. The game is not even worth the candle.
    4. DMB-88
      +3
      23 August 2014 12: 02
      Quote: SergeyM
      Putin’s statement is not a way out of the agreement. This is only a signal to our opponents that we can also respond.


      It would be nice to place our missiles in Cuba and in Venezuela, it would deliver up to a lot of pleasant minutes to phishington!
      1. +4
        23 August 2014 19: 53
        Quote: DMB-88

        It would be nice to place our missiles in Cuba and Venezuela

        It would be good to start with asking Cuba and Venezuela if they want to have our missiles on their territory!
        1. +4
          24 August 2014 13: 43
          But the geyropa will portray a lot of cries and the brain will peck at the mattresses fellow
          And one moment.
          The agreement was about land-based INF, but the states have an overwhelming advantage over sea-based cruise missiles, which fall into the agreement in range, but have not been taken into account. Now, if they were removed from service, then we can still say that we need a contract, and it turns out that we have eliminated our strengths, and the mattresses have everything left in service. Therefore, the agreement must be unambiguously defeated and begin to restore its weapons, so that the geyrope becomes scared and starts yelling. Even if it leads to a new round of armaments, then let us not spend money on weapons alone, let them limit our fat burghers in gingerbread.
          1. +3
            24 August 2014 15: 42
            Quote: K-50
            advantage for sea-based cruise missiles, which fall into the agreement in range, but were not taken into account. Now, if they were removed from service

            Well you! As soon as it comes to the Navy and its armaments, negotiations immediately come to a standstill. Americans will never give them up for a slaughter, since it is precisely on them that the main stake is made in breaking through the missile defense (striking at the radar and missile defense) and delivering a decapitating, blinding strike.
            In short, it’s the same as if you darling take and give someone your favorite toy ... Nah, not ICE!
    5. +2
      23 August 2014 21: 01
      SergeiM - Colleague, the author scares the "imbalance" in the case of the location of Am. missiles in Europe ... And about a country like Cuba, the author has never heard? Does he know anything about the "Caribbean crisis"? Who can prevent us, as in the distant 1961, from deploying our own INF in Cuba - what kind of "imbalance" can we talk about then?
      Our "partners" bzdnul, oh bzdnul - and from this such little articles appear: it is unprofitable for Russia to violate the treaties ... Oh, how is it profitable for the USA, but for us - well, no way ... well, whose guy is this Author?
      1. +1
        24 August 2014 02: 16
        I’m not an expert, but I also think, why would such a stink p ,,, board?
      2. +2
        24 August 2014 15: 56
        Quote: Goga101
        Who can stop us, as in the distant 1961 year, from locating our INF missiles in Cuba

        Igor Gennadievich, read about Operation Atrina, and then honestly answer to yourself: are we capable today, with the same secrecy, to carry out such an operation to transfer such a number of troops and weapons.
        This is it!
        Then, when our vehicles began to sink, we would have to respond with ICBMs. The Caribbean crisis would have seemed like a game of giveaway. But the USSR and the ATS are not the same thing as the Russian Federation and .... AU !!! Belarus, and who else? Kazakhstan is not a fact, China - a smart monkey would climb a tree and look at everything that is happening below ... Yes, I forgot! The MPR, of course, supported us and sent its fleet to defeat the USers, would throw them with ICBMs ... if they were with the Mongols.
        So "it is not harmful to dream, it is harmful not to dream!" (from)
        1. 0
          24 August 2014 20: 20
          The boa constrictor KAA - Alexander, and now the size of the weapon is somewhat different than in 1961, and "transports" are not needed for its transportation, Any civilian container ship, and not necessarily even a domestic one, will freely transfer an entire unit hi
          And as for secrecy, you are in vain, I can judge by what I know well: during the construction of an oil pipeline to the east to the Pacific Ocean to ship tankers for Japan and Korea, "suddenly" and "completely by accident" - was built within just a month "otpayechka" to China about which no one before - not sleep or spirit, give credit to the Chinese - they also did not appear. That was the screeching! And the ecologists and the whole proPin-d-o-s-n-th abomination howled ... and late, the pipe works. So Transneft is not a military organization, but how it worked good
          1. +1
            28 August 2014 22: 55
            Igor Gennadievich! Yes, today's rocket is smaller than the P-14, but the head still radiates. Upon entering the 200, the miles economic zone, boats and ships of the coast guard of the US meet and for several minutes follow a parallel course, moving from side to side of the vessel. And a strange thing, they have never made a mistake when they discovered a source of ionizing radiation. I admit that they can be chopped once by announcing that we are transporting fuel elements (packages) for nuclear power plants. So what is next?
            Transferring people is one thing, but technology is another. SAM, tanks - under the guise of combines? A DRY under the guise of what?
            Quote: Goga101
            And about secrecy - it's you in vain
            Then the starting positions were found from U-2. And today, with the daily passage of the satellite, as a military man ... I will not believe that for a month they did not find earthworks and "branch lines" in the direction of the PRC border with the satellite!
            Why were they silent? So the team was not squealing, but screeching at a convenient time for themselves. Politics, however.
    6. +2
      24 August 2014 12: 43
      Yeah. Until they wait until seven minutes have passed, they themselves will remain 13. laughing Is that time to applaud before death. And then, the grandmother said in two.
  2. +7
    23 August 2014 08: 01
    Well, what I said is the Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, I think that's right!
    At one time, this "Nobel laureate" did not sign sweet agreements for the Americans, and then Russia suffered !!!
    Enough, this will not happen anymore !!! Everyone understood who and what is in this world !!!
  3. +14
    23 August 2014 08: 04
    The GDP just puts pressure on the West and it seems that it is good at it, and he didn’t say anything specifically, the general phrase is casually abandoned ... the rest of the consciousness will finish itself up, as usual and even worse.
    1. 0
      24 August 2014 02: 17
      their point is not iron
  4. Chemicalin23
    +5
    23 August 2014 08: 47
    Quote: afdjhbn67
    The GDP just puts pressure on the West and it seems that it is good at it, and he didn’t say anything specifically, the general phrase is casually abandoned ... the rest of the consciousness will finish itself up, as usual and even worse.

    Well, this is how they taught, but they taught him well - everything goes like this. He is again in his repertoire, again the Americans with Europe will urinate with boiling water.
  5. Oml
    +3
    23 August 2014 09: 18
    But the Americans will have their hands untied to create new types of weapons, and if desired, to deploy them in Europe under the sauce of counteracting "Russian aggression."


    As if something is bothering them now. "They can always do anything and they are right." Examples of the sea, at least with the same Ukraine. And we need to do what we want.
  6. 0
    23 August 2014 09: 22
    What kind of agreement the president of Russia spoke about is not entirely clear. Perhaps he just made a slip of his tongue, confusing the ABM Treaty with START.
    If you don’t know, then don’t write
  7. +6
    23 August 2014 09: 51
    If the Americans have a real opportunity to supply means of a disarming strike on the territory of the former Soviet Union, they will supply them and no treaty will prevent them from doing so. Is it possible that someone else has not noticed that the USA abide by the treaty while it is beneficial for them (worthy successors of the Fuhrer). They will stage and launch their own theater of absurdity that all this is directed against some kind of "East Korea" and then we will again catch up. Or maybe I am mistaken and right is just Mr. Arbatov from the Yabloko party or the same former comrade. General Yesin, who forgot where are located
    all our strategic missile forces control points
  8. +13
    23 August 2014 09: 55
    I remember in the early 80s, Yu.V. Andropov, in response to the deployment of the Pershing in Europe, ordered the deployment of naval nuclear forces (PKK SN, strike boats from the Kyrgyz Republic) close to the US shores ... Then they made three autonomous ships per year ...... although in principle a rocket fly from the pole or Bermuda to Washington almost the same ........ but the guys psychologically managed it ........ I immediately wanted to discuss the agreement .... ... Of course, the agro-industrial complex of the BR is now smaller, but the Americans are no longer accustomed to the threat of Russian nuclear missiles at hand ..... So, let the children relax, plus boats and ICBMs have already appeared on the PRC capable of delivering the received cargo to the territory of North America. ...
    1. 0
      23 August 2014 19: 57
      Quote: FREGATENKAPITAN
      plus, the PRC has already got boats and ICBMs capable of delivering the sheer cargo to the territory of North America ....

      Remember what the Chinese said about the two fighting tigers?
  9. +1
    23 August 2014 10: 03
    contract paper ... and stocks stocks
    1. +2
      23 August 2014 11: 19
      If the treaty is denounced, then given where the borders of NATO go after 25 years, the complete nuclear destruction of Europe can be guaranteed. A local nuclear strike by the same Iskanders and strategists at all bases in Europe. The submarine forces must simultaneously take care of the submarines of the europace. This will happen very quickly, as soon as there is evidence of an attempt to deploy the first US INF. This is a cocked pistol attached to the temple, and no one can allow it.
      Merkel miscalculated: she thought that the choice between financial losses was either from the states or from the Russian Federation, but it turned out that from the Russian Federation there could be no losses, but non-existence.
      1. +1
        24 August 2014 17: 46
        Quote: Tektor
        A local nuclear strike ... and one can guarantee the complete nuclear destruction of Europe.

        It’s a pity, we are also part of Europe ... But I still wanted to live ...
        W-2's, Where will the "pink" nuclear clouds float? What, you don't know the weather forecast? Oh yes, I forgot! You are ... STRATEGIUS!
        B-3-them, will the Americans calmly watch how we will plant old Geyrop on the nuclear ramrod? Not? will not? Ah, well then it’s clear! You are a champion of the universal nuclear war, an adherent of the sect of fans of the nuclear apocalypse.
        Quote: Tektor
        The submarine forces must simultaneously take care of the submarines of the europace.

        Yeah! And you, my friend, are not alien and naval fantasies?
        No? Well, then you probably know that in order to find ONE SSBN dozens of NKs and several SSNs are equipped, plus PLO aircraft. And they are following an intelligence tip about the time and place of the change of boats in the designated RBD. And the geyrope has as many as 8 !, plus amers 12, plus plARKs ... At one time, the USSR fleet (!) Conducted strategic exercises to uncover the underwater environment ("Ocean-70", - 80 ") 300 (!) Ships, a hundred submarines, not counting anti-submarine aircraft. Only 80% of the enemy's boats were found. And it is far from a fact that they could have been destroyed. Now take a look: how many PLO ships we have left in the ocean zone ... So that - not offset!
        Quote: Tektor
        It will happen very fast.
        Only cats will be born fast! Well, if you’re talking about self-KILLING, then I’ll agree. But I’m not going to make up the company, I still need to finish some things in this world ...
        Quote: Tektor
        and no one can allow this.

        Well, thank God! Finally a good idea! They reassured, otherwise I thought that you would announce a mobilization ... Although, they will not call for it - the age is already retired. The stock has run out ...
        PS. Do not be offended! They returned from barbecue ... well, how not to knock over ... sofa dreamers.
  10. +5
    23 August 2014 10: 14
    Pelicans, you really are a pelican that prevents Europe from having medium-range missiles, it didn’t sign the treaty. This treaty doesn’t matter what iskandera should be placed near the border substituting for attack and missiles up to 5500 km can already be guaranteed to be used
    1. +3
      23 August 2014 11: 59
      Quote: ruslan207
      Pelicans you really are a pelican that prevents Europe from having medium-range missiles, she did not sign the agreement.

      Absolutely nothing prevents. And Russia's withdrawal from the INF Treaty nullifies the entire American missile defense system deployed in Europe and the Pacific region. In addition, all US bases scattered around Russia will also be under fire, the US Navy and its aircraft carriers will not be able to approach an effective distance to Russian territory. Of the supposedly negative sides, the possibility of an attack on Moscow, when deploying the Pershing in the Baltic, but on Moscow will be hollowed out of everything possible, but Moscow has the most developed missile defense and air defense, so there are probably more pluses than minuses in the withdrawal from the treaty.
      1. +7
        23 August 2014 20: 02
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        but in Moscow and so they will hammer out of everything possible, n

        That's the beauty of life in a small, cozy Muho ... ske!
      2. +3
        24 August 2014 18: 11
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        And Russia's withdrawal from the INF Treaty nullifies the entire American missile defense system deployed in Europe and the Pacific region.

        Michael, one question: And what about the marine component of the missile defense system (Aegis, SM-3 interceptor)? And where are you going to deploy the INF Shell to get missile defense interceptors in Alaska?
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        American bases scattered around Russia will also be under fire
        Yes, you forget about them: by the time of the strike no one will be there. That the USers have, that we have a BG BG system, with a degree of threat of MILITARY DANGER, all forces scatter in secret dispersal areas ...
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        The US Navy and its aircraft carriers will not be able to approach an effective distance to Russian territory.
        The remaining ones will certainly do this, but only after striking with SSBNs and strategic Axes from strike submarines against designated targets.
        And then, how can the INF missiles affect ships at sea? Or do we have Chinese DF-21D? Or R-27D again in combat formation? So like carriers (667б) have long rested in the Bose. Or am I, by my grayness, missing something?
        1. 0
          24 August 2014 20: 57
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          And where are you going to deploy the INF Shell to get missile defense interceptors in Alaska?

          Well, maybe in Anadyr.
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          Yes, you forget about them: by the time of the strike no one will be there.

          The main thing is to spoil the airfields.
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          Or am I missing something?

          The article was written.
          What kind of agreement the president of Russia spoke about is not entirely clear. Perhaps he just made a slip of his tongue, confusing the ABM Treaty with START. However, for Washington, the message turned out to be more than understandable - the first thing they remembered was the INF Treaty, the perpetual Treaty on the Elimination of Medium and Short Range Missiles, signed by Moscow and Washington on December 8, 1987. Parties to the agreement pledged not to produce, test, or deploy ballistic and cruise missiles ground-based medium - from 1 thousand to 5,5 thousand - and small - from 500 to 1 thousand kilometers - range. (clickable)
          1. +1
            28 August 2014 23: 29
            Quote: saturn.mmm
            Or am I missing something?

            Mikhail, this question was related to the means of combating AVU based on BR. By the way, our R-27K (I wrote that comment from memory, so I put the letter "D" incorrectly) flew only 900 km, which at the moment does not reach the line of the rise of aviation if it is used from the shore. And there is no carrier yet. The Chinese have 1900 km, so you can shoot from the shore. In both cases, you need a control center from AES-r.
            Then, when illustrating your koment, do not display a physical-geographical map. It is without reach zones, therefore it does not speak about anything except the terrain.
            On land-based cruise missiles. The Americans began to fuss after a leak in the press that the second district on Iskander would be a KRBD, such as "Relief" or K-555, maybe S-101.
            And they don't even stutter about naval weapons - they have a "sacred cow".
  11. +8
    23 August 2014 10: 28
    Europe did not sign the agreement, and the USA has a huge number of cruise missiles (and the main thing is their placement on ships - and this is mobility) makes Russia fulfilling the terms of the INF agreement as a one-goal soccer game (naturally Russian), and the price is medium and short-range missiles, well, very fewer than strategic ones, which currently plays an important role, and if we recall the timing of their production, i.e. I see no reason to continue to fulfill the terms of this agreement.
  12. +2
    23 August 2014 10: 35
    For complete confidence, it is necessary to object to the BZHRK. Still, detecting and destroying a disguised as freight train is much more complicated than mines.
    1. +3
      23 August 2014 11: 58
      For complete confidence, it is necessary to object to the BZHRK. Still, detecting and destroying a disguised as freight train is much more complicated than mines.
      And not only with ICBMs, but also variants with the ballistic missile defense. They will be more compact and small.
  13. +1
    23 August 2014 10: 40
    Admin, apparently it is impossible to post articles related to nuclear weapons here, the aggravation begins at the electorate, resonant :-)
    1. +1
      24 August 2014 18: 32
      Quote: saag
      Admin, you probably can't post articles related to nuclear weapons here
      Well what are you, dear Marshal! The admins of the couch strategists (STRATEGIUS VULGARIS!) Calculate it in order to know who is ready to put pressure on the prelaunch button (or launch - depending on the type of missile!). Who can a country rely on in difficult times of trials! Slogan: Heroes among us! relevant as never before.
      And those who are the Supreme High Command, Moscow Region, the National High School, the Commanders-in-Chief there are all kinds of those idiots and cowards! And our STRATEGIES are fearless heroes who are ready, even now (right from the couch!) For a feat. Unleash and win the world RYAV - yes two fingers on the asphalt! if only there were enough cucumbers! It does not matter that there is no education and knowledge is not enough! But they feel the guts! THE TRUTH IS SOMEWHERE NEAR! Hence such bold views on the subject of discussion! And you-- to remove articles about NUCLEAR weapons ... not humanly, somehow it is from your, marshal’s side, DO YOU UNDERSTAND ,,, (EBN)
      1. +1
        24 August 2014 23: 50
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        And those who are the Supreme High Command, Moscow Region, the National High School, the Commanders-in-Chief there are all kinds of those idiots and cowards!

        Probably you are not a couch but a real strategist, can state your point of view on the current situation and what are the possible ways out of it.
        1. +1
          28 August 2014 23: 37
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          You are probably not a couch but a real strategist
          Michael, you flatter me. Operational-tactical, maximum operational. But I had to remove code locks.
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          can state your point of view

          Nah, I won’t explain it, although in another place and with a different composition of listeners I could explain something. I’m not going to look again film, ugh you! play! "Men in Black-2".
  14. +1
    23 August 2014 10: 41
    creation of a unified launcher Mk-41, capable of launching medium-range cruise missiles ASROC, Sea Sparrow, ESSM and Tomahawk.
    And long ago, anti-submarine and anti-aircraft missiles have a range of 1000-5000 km, if the author took them to medium-range missiles?))
  15. +20
    23 August 2014 10: 51
    And what ??? ... 7 minutes to Moscow ... the main thing to Siberia is the flight time of 30 minutes ... Muscovites should be calm, we will avenge you, we will erase the whole world.
    1. -1
      23 August 2014 11: 17
      Quote: Strashila
      And what ??? ... 7 minutes to Moscow ... the main thing to Siberia flight time is 30 minutes.

      Yeah, on the other hand, they can’t organize the same?
      1. +5
        23 August 2014 16: 27
        They can ... but one and the last time.
        1. 0
          24 August 2014 04: 06
          Quote: Strashila
          They can ... but one and the last time.

          In fact, it turns out TWO TIMES (if added as in elementary arithmetic): first + last recourse
    2. +4
      23 August 2014 18: 20
      Smiled about revenge for Moscow ... plus you! soldier
  16. +7
    23 August 2014 11: 00
    Slowly, the rocket flies away into the distance, you do not expect a meeting with it. And although America is a little sorry, the best is, of course, ahead ... Like a tablecloth, like a tablecloth, cyan-chlorine spreads and crawls under the gas mask. Everyone, everyone doesn't want to, can't believe. A nuclear mine is falling and falling ... Here is a song to the tune "Let them run awkwardly ..."
    1. Uriah Mushroom
      +7
      23 August 2014 13: 23
      In my opinion, the motive of the blue car is more suitable.
      1. +2
        24 August 2014 14: 01
        On YouTube, there is "slow rockets fly into the distance" laughing
  17. Tol.Skiff
    +3
    23 August 2014 11: 08
    Nonsense is complete ... Russia needs to get out and not slowly from this treaty !!! The world has changed a lot, threats have changed too ...
  18. +2
    23 August 2014 11: 34
    somehow I attended to nuclear bombs and missiles. and it was a relief when I saw that there were no plans for attacks on my hometown. all from open sources. ie internet. but this is unlikely. scary. nuclear loaf give us s500. I will be the first to become part of Russia. Stop playing in the independence.
    1. 0
      23 August 2014 15: 21
      I respect BELARUSIANS smile
  19. +3
    23 August 2014 11: 48
    Quote: SergeyM
    Putin’s statement is not a way out of the agreement. This is only a signal to our opponents that we can also respond.

    Vladimir Vladimirovich, maybe a swag?
    Be sure to bang, the whole world is in ruins, but then! ...
    1. lord
      0
      23 August 2014 12: 11
      i'm for to hit first in a fight 50 percent success
      1. 0
        25 August 2014 07: 26
        Quote: Lord
        i'm for to hit first in a fight 50 percent success

        Success in this fight will be that you will be buried in a coffin. Not success - in that there will be nothing to bury. These are the prospects for the Big Nuclear Fight! Better live!
  20. +2
    23 August 2014 12: 27
    I think we need to get out of this agreement. For us, there is more harm than good from him, and Europe will be quiet. In cases of which we’ll dust it and blow it away, so that there would be no dust. Well, there was nothing and no one there. soldier
  21. +1
    23 August 2014 12: 42
    my boss was a cap-2 submariner, our people said that they removed these missiles. Americans have missile defense designed for long-range missiles, and our submarines approached the shores of America and could send rmd to America, the Americans could not make one
    1. +3
      23 August 2014 18: 24
      I’ll also explain how to drop two submariners ..... Under a contract for a submarine, a nuclear-tactical weapon was removed, i.e. BG torpedoes, cruise missiles .......... (well, let's say ... we are as if am removed)
  22. +2
    23 August 2014 12: 56
    not any agreements with the enemy. even more so with this catty as America. to do everything for and for the good of Russia. and do not care about this America.
  23. 0
    23 August 2014 16: 43
    cruise missiles in Cuba will not be a violation of the agreements of the Caribbean crisis. It was cruise missiles, because Pershing was the Kyrgyz Republic precisely because of the agreements on the Caribbean crisis.
    And given that Russian air defense is very good at knocking down all of the US KR, and the only question is competent cover for all mines, the United States and Europe will certainly lose.
    Of course, we need duplicated radio coverage throughout Europe, we need a system that can track and give a central missile for about 1000 missiles - but this was possible even in Soviet times, when the Moscow missile defense could reflect the launch of about 1500 missiles.
    It will be expensive, but reliable enough
    1. +3
      23 August 2014 20: 12
      Quote: xtur
      It was cruise missiles, because Pershing was KR

      How long have the Pershing wings grown? MGM-31C Pershing 2 (Eng. MGM-31C Pershing II) is an American solid-fuel two-stage mobile ballistic medium-range ballistic missile.
    2. +1
      24 August 2014 20: 56
      Quote: xtur
      because Pershing were KR

      Thank you friend! Eyes opened to me. And then, in my naivety and thoughtlessness, I believed the whole service that Pershing, Onest Dzhony and other Amerov’s evil spirits flew along ballistic trajectories, which is why they were called by mistake.
      Quote: xtur
      certainly lose the United States and Europe.
      It’s better not to compete in this, otherwise the Union was the first to come to the finish line in the USA – USSR competition ...
      Quote: xtur
      duplication of radio coverage throughout Europe, we need a system capable of tracking and giving the control center for approximately 1000 KR
      We will loop up Voronezh, Containers, hang up the A-50U (A-100), raise the MiG-31BM (MiG-41A), put our knapsacks in the threatened directions ... put the GPS jammers ... !), at the points of correction we will put shooters with Verb ... on the roofs of high-rise buildings - SPAAG and so on.
      TsU give out radar (firing) complexes of air defense systems, object (zone) defense.
      You underestimated the number of CDs by about 2 times (apparently out of pity for the former homeland?)
      Quote: xtur
      it was possible even in Soviet times,

      But this is doubtful ... even though I am a patriot of my homeland.
      Quote: xtur
      Moscow missile defense could reflect the launch of approximately 1500 KR.
      The Moscow Air Defense District was engaged in this. ABM was doing something else. As for the 1500 Axes ... it is doubtful if they were intended for another. But the D-5 Tridents were listed in the plans ...
      Sincerely.
  24. +2
    23 August 2014 17: 17
    To make the rockets that we need, just call them so that they do not fall under any contracts. How will they be checked? - Secret information.
    1. +1
      24 August 2014 21: 06
      Quote: lexx2038
      How will they be checked? - Secret information.
      The main thing is that the new Kalugins, Belenko and others like them are not born! IS IT POSSIBLE IN THE WORLD OF A CLEANER?
  25. +5
    23 August 2014 17: 31
    “Withdrawal from the INF Treaty will give Russia the opportunity to deploy medium-range missiles suitable for use against third countries, but in no way affecting the strategic balance with Washington,” says Alesy Arbatov, “but in this case Washington will be able to deploy medium-range missiles on the territory of the Allies in Europe. "Therefore, it is necessary to make it clear to the public of the countries of the US allies that they die within 5 minutes from the beginning of the end.
    1. +1
      24 August 2014 21: 19
      Quote: gray
      it is necessary to make clear to the public of the countries of the US allies that they die within 5 minutes from the beginning of the end.

      "H" -0.05 - it's too late! But "H" - 1.00, or -1.30 - I think it will be the most! But with non-nuclear weapons, so that the Yankees have time to put their brains in place. I think they will remain faithful to tradition and will drain the allies (or rather the INF base) down the toilet, as they always did. Even in relations with Israel, its strategic ally. And some Poles, Magyars, Czechs ... dust under the feet of a "special nation".
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. The comment was deleted.
  28. 0
    23 August 2014 18: 09
  29. +4
    23 August 2014 21: 30
    All the rest is haunted by the RS-26 Rubezh "light elves" And the capital of Russia, following the example of Kazakhstan, is high time to move from Moscow. Build a new city between Yekaterinburg and Chelyabinsk on the border of Europe and Asia
    1. +3
      24 August 2014 21: 24
      Quote: bmv04636
      And the capital of Russia, following the example of Kazakhstan, has long been time to move from Moscow. Build a new city between Yekaterinburg and Chelyabinsk on the border of Europe and Asia

      Historical memory will not, tradition!
      But ministries and other government bodies have long been sent from the throne to the periphery of the great homeland. Like the Supreme Court, military commanders, specialized committees ...
      Maybe then the financial flows will change at least a little and something will be transferred to other subjects of the federation, and not only to "Maskvach"?
  30. RUSLAT
    +4
    23 August 2014 21: 57
    Americans never fulfill contracts! Also, these treaties were shackles for Russia. The United States simply handed the missiles to its NATO allies, and they were both aimed at Russia. But Russia destroyed all its missiles and now even the Allies have nothing to transfer. It's time to destroy this scam .......
  31. +2
    24 August 2014 05: 41
    And what, everything is closed with us in Moscow and the Garden Ring? What about Russia? It is not small, why it is impossible to concentrate the main strategic and command posts, for example, in the Novosibirsk region? And the tasks of defense and guaranteed destruction must be solved constantly, stepping five steps forward.
    1. RUSLAT
      0
      24 August 2014 10: 20
      Then in the Arctic, across the north pole to the states at hand. And no missile defense systems are there .....
      1. +1
        24 August 2014 21: 28
        Quote: RUSLAT
        And no missile defense systems are there .....

        Have you still not heard anything about NORAD !? Well, you fucking give !!!
    2. 0
      24 August 2014 12: 36
      It’s hard for generals to fly to Moscow every day for banquets ...
  32. +1
    24 August 2014 12: 36
    The US and the EU are well aware that after NATO's occupation of the countries of the former Warsaw Treaty, the Russian Federation was left under attack, especially Moscow as the main center of the Russian Defense Ministry. Incl. the fact that they withdrew from the ABM treaty was done for the sake of decency, they are making and will continue to do so, spitting on the treaties, because this is just paper, force and propaganda, then make the "correct" story ...
  33. +1
    24 August 2014 13: 48
    Solely for the sake of justice:
    Under the agreement, Moscow then got such systems as RSD-10 Pioneer, ground-based cruise missiles RK-55 Granat, as well as tactical missiles Temp-S and Oka.

    "Oka" did not fall under the contract - it is a gift of the Tagged One to European common people.
    “Militarily, there is no benefit,” says Yesin. - In fact, we are returning 40 years ago when the United States deployed 108 Pershing-2 missiles in Germany.

    If we are talking specifically about Pershing-2, they deployed not 40, but 30 years ago, 108 not missiles, but launchers (plus a certain number of rezarny ones), while 132 missiles were brought to West Germany.
    “The US withdrawal from the ABM Treaty in 2002 is a huge mistake for the Americans,” the expert is sure. “Now many in Washington recognize this.” After all, the grandiose plans for the creation of an NMD system have not been realized

    Why is it a mistake? To whom it was supposed, received a loot for research and development, development, testing, production. The subcontractors, I think, also did not remain offended. Nothing personal - just business.
  34. 0
    24 August 2014 14: 41
    Quote: SergeyM
    Putin’s statement is not a way out of the agreement. This is only a signal to our opponents that we can also respond.

    A subtle hint of fat circumstances ...
  35. +2
    24 August 2014 16: 18
    You read the comments of some strategists and wonder. Or they don’t know the story or don’t want to think. After all, with medium-range missiles and with the deployment of missiles in Cuba, there was no use other than harm
    In Cuba, all missiles would have been destroyed before they could have been brought into full combat readiness, and then the entire world civilization would have been destroyed. With medium- and short-range missiles, Western Europe would be held hostage, and American bases in Turkey and other countries close to the borders of the USSR would fall under attack. And the waters under the gun of American medium-range missiles located near the borders of the USSR turned out to be the entire European and Central Asian part of the USSR. In this case, the flight time of American missiles to the USSR was calculated in units of minutes, while the post-flight time of strategic missiles of the USSR to the United States was in tens of these minutes. It is clear who got the advantage in this case. Attempts by the USSR to compensate for this advantage by placing nuclear submarines and strategic bombers near the US borders at that time looked more like a gamble, taking into account the US's ability at that time to detect and destroy nuclear submarines and intercept long-range bombers that did not have any cover. He himself took part in modeling the data of the "deep operations" of the USSR Armed Forces, and each time it turned out that these operations were doomed to failure with a 95% probability. Of course, some people would have been able to break through closer to America and "shoot" before being shot, but the effectiveness of such loners was and remains a big question.
    In the end, it took the titanic efforts of the leaders of both countries and big money to defuse the situation that developed as a result of the bet on medium-range missiles and remove these missiles from the agenda. Now it seems that some have begun to forget about things that weren’t in such a distant past, and they are beginning to exhaust from the powerlessness of their fearlessness, not taking into account that the potential of the USSR Armed Forces in those days was, if not cool, much higher than today's potential of the Russian Armed Forces.
    Well, it would also be good to remember that a general nuclear war is not quite the same as "banging out" with the right-wing officials in the DPR. Those. not at all. And if now the civilian population of the DPR still has a chance to somehow survive in this conflict, then no one will have a chance to survive in a violent war. And there will be no one to bury the dead.
    1. +2
      24 August 2014 19: 15
      Quote: gregor6549
      After all, with medium-range missiles and with the deployment of missiles in Cuba, there was no use other than harm

      In everything that you described, you are right, but there was still some benefit, America was forced to calculate the consequences for itself, and this turned out to be a shock for them so strong that trembling knees did not allow them to cross a certain line in relations with the USSR and now with By Russia. And yet, with all their ostentatious power and apparent advantage, they understand that there will be no winners. For them, the ideal option is a full-blown nuclear or non-nuclear war wherever there are none, and where they supposedly have nothing to do with it, and they may well declare neutrality, and only then this jackal tribe will stretch its tentacles with all possible help and they will walk with a hole in the pants on the back, so as not to remove them constantly with the kisses of the grateful survivors.
    2. Chestnut
      0
      26 August 2014 20: 17
      You are underwritten that the RSD from Turkey was removed. In the sense of truth, whoever burns is talking about that. Thus, the Americans burned, because the RSD in Turkey were placed much earlier. It seems that you are on the side of the author, and he is at least in shares or on the bond.
  36. Wladimir71
    -1
    24 August 2014 16: 23
    From the moment of the first explosion, there is no fundamentally new mechanism for the initiation of division, and whether they will lie. All parts tests can be carried out in laboratory conditions and airway is only a farce. Fission products will not go anywhere; they will fly in the air and poison all living things. Europe will definitely be choked with foam from the mouth and then there will be a conflict with NATO. You can buy up nuclear waste and set up a repository in the Baltic states, let them jump, it’s easier and cheaper, and most importantly more efficient.
  37. Wladimir71
    0
    24 August 2014 16: 40
    Possession of nuclear weapons and the development of modern means of delivery is a state test for solvency. Gruzdev called himself get in the body. There will be no nuclear conflict if everything is fine with children in the country. The social orientation of the state is not a whim of voters but the only way to survive. Tomorrow's engineers are defending childhood from perverse US-European imposed values.
  38. +1
    24 August 2014 23: 32
    It makes sense for Russia to withdraw from the INF Treaty ONLY having an agreement on the deployment of such missiles in Cuba in Venezuela or somewhere close to pin.dostan ... But there is one more reason for the exit to SCAR the Geyropeyts ... It’s no secret that the NEXT war will COME SOON in Europe ... the United States does everything possible to help this, and as history shows, they will not deviate from these plans (they have no other choice) ... And therefore, short-range missiles could COOL the ardor of the Geyropeans to get involved in a WAR WITH A GUARANTEED DISAPPEARANCE OF ELITE ... Despite the fact that STRATEGIC weapons will not destroy the elite, they will simply destroy the population ... But tactical nuclear weapons will destroy the elite ... and this may become a BRAKE in setting fire to the geyropeytsy ... but it may not ... if their elite I have already prepared for myself RELIABLE and most importantly SECRET shelters for this case ...
  39. 0
    25 August 2014 15: 41
    You all did not take into account one thing: the "perimeter" system, which counterattacks automatically after the first nuclear explosion, committed not at the test site. At one time, this system nullified the advantage of the first strike, with which Reagan (he burned in hell) hoped to decapitate the USSR It is possible to prevent this MSD from working only by destroying all the reserve command posts and, to be sure, all signal flares, which is far from a fact even when the territory of the Russian Federation is completely surrounded by missile defense and INF systems, and even more so now