Military Review

Infantry weapons. Operational criteria, trends and prospects

65
Infantry weapons. Operational criteria, trends and prospects

It is argued that the Mk47 STRIKER is “the first major achievement in the field of weapon systems serviced by calculations, beginning at the end of the Second World War,” but it is being acquired in relatively small quantities due to its high cost. The most recent order for 25 million dollars was placed in October 2010 year


The great importance of infantry platoon and detachment (the latter usually corresponds to the average capacity of standard armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles) as the main components of combat units has greatly influenced the development of tactical doctrines over the past decades. At present, this applies to a large extent to the prevailing scenarios of low and medium intensity conflicts. Accordingly, special opinions have been put forward and are being advanced with regard to improving the combat effectiveness of an infantry platoon and division regarding mobility, autonomy and fire power.

The need to increase firepower has long become evident for regular fire support, it would allow the dismounted platoon and detachment to immediately respond to the threat, not depending solely on the fire support provided by the corresponding combat armored vehicles (BBM) or worse, the upper echelons. Indeed, the availability of full-time fire support at the platoon and branch level is now regarded as an absolute requirement, taking into account the high rates of modern combat operations, as well as the proliferation of increasingly sophisticated and effective observation, identification and communication systems. All this is intended to provide instant suppressive fire immediately after identifying the target.

Which one weapon and at what level?

The above considerations have led to the general consensus that at the squad level, additional individual armament can consist of one or two light support means, it is usually represented by a light machine gun, for example, the ubiquitous FN Herstal MINI-MI / M239 SAW and / or a single-shot grenade launcher (it can be either a separate weapon, for example the H&K GP, or an underbarrel, for example, the well-known M203 or its more modern versions). At the platoon level, standard means may include weapons for direct fire (universal machine guns (UP) - heavy machine guns (TP) - and automatic grenade launchers (AG)), systems for indirect fire (light or landing (for commandos) plus AG ).

In many possible combat scenarios, the enemy will be outside the range of direct-fire weapons and can thus be destroyed only by indirect-tip systems firing along a parabolic trajectory. That is, it is indisputable that the automatic small-caliber weapons created for the destruction of point targets, and the weapon for firing at squares, firing with fragmentation ammunition (light mortars and AH), must be one whole and complement each other. Thus, the question is whether mortars or AH are the best solution in this case.


AG from Heckler & Koch GMG is in service with the British marines


Calculate 60-mm mortar in action

Light assault mortars, due to the characteristics of their 60-mm ammunition, are much more effective than the AH in terms of "delivering" fire to suppression. On the other hand, however, they have a much lower rate of fire compared to even the worst AG models, they cannot fire from a vehicle in motion, except for a few models for special forces, they can only be used for firing indirect fire. In addition, while someone wants to reflect on the possible future introduction of 60-mm ammunition with control on the final part of the trajectory, AGs have an important and unique advantage regarding their other characteristic - the destruction of armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, since their ability to quickly fire in bursts in turns compensates for low accuracy and difficulty defeat fast-moving targets. Quite a big lack of hypertension from which, unfortunately, it seems, there is no ready-made medicine, their cost. A large number of low-budget armies are considered or have no other choice than to consider AH (at least Western production) as too expensive weapons compared to more traditional fire support weapons, such as light / airborne mortars and multipurpose and heavy machine guns.

Thus, a more or less common practice is to equip with universal machine guns and light machine guns platoons of fire support for the main infantry companies (very significant in the case of companies of the American Marine Corps equipped with the M240G 7,62 mm UP and a light mortar M224 60 mm), while TP and AGs are assigned to fire support companies (for example, a marine infantry company has a support platoon with six mm M2HB 12,7 TP and six MK19 40 mm AG).

These traditional schemes, adopted by the US Marine Corps and many foreign armies, are increasingly criticized by experts and users, who argue that AG should be extended to the level of an infantry unit. However, these proposals are resisted on the grounds that the UE and light mortars, currently available, provide an adequate amount of fire and indeed cover large areas at long ranges compared to AH. This observation is true but it begins to lose its firmness in assessing that mortars cannot shoot direct fire and, moreover, they are almost useless in defeating multiple targets in built-up areas and especially in high-rise buildings.

In any case, it would definitely be wrong to expect that an infantry unit, already equipped with light machine-guns, can maintain appropriate mobility on foot over rough terrain, loaded with another special fire support weapon. Almost the same applies to the platoon with its UE and light / airborne mortar, while in the case of a standard infantry company, disputes still continue. Indeed, it often happens that an infantry company does not have a regular weapon for delivering indirect fire to its platoons, while platoons themselves are in exactly the same predicament about their units, as a result of which they can only count on direct firearms single-shot grenade launchers that cannot destroy targets in the folds of the terrain at distances exceeding 300 – 400 meters. The very first indirect-targeting weapon that the unit can count on is thus at company level, that is, these are light mortars of a fire support platoon.

In addition, it should be noted in this connection that just a few years ago, a platoon that gradually lost importance in many armies was reduced to no more than a link between a company and branches, and thus, among other aspects, loses its regular fire support means. In this case, the first weapon of indirect targeting to support the units will be at the company level, it is usually represented by an average 81-mm mortar - a solution that, however, contradicts the increased tactical mobility, which is necessarily provided by modern operational doctrines for small infantry units.

In theory, a virtually endless list of various solutions could be proposed. However, by and large, it is possible to get a gain when deploying fire support weapons, regardless of their type, as close as possible to infantry units and first-line platoons.

These considerations help explain why light / airborne mortars have again gained considerable popularity in recent years, and are now very popular in modern armies. This applies not only to the ground forces of Africa, Asia or Latin America, whose prevailing operational conditions make this weapon virtually indispensable, but also true even for many Western armies, Finland, France, Italy, Portugal, Spain, the United Kingdom and the United States and many more. who kept light / landing mortars in their arsenals or hastily are currently buying them from the defense industry.


The omnipresent AG Mk19 40 mm was originally designed as a weapon on a tripod, but is now increasingly seen as an installed weapon system on a support ring in vehicles or a remotely controlled combat module


Russian AGS-30 is a modernized version of the original 30-mm automatic AGNS-17 grenade launcher Flame. The latter was the first in the world of hypertension, produced in large quantities.


The Soltam 60-mm mortar range includes the C-03 Commando Mortar mortar (pictured) with 7 kg, its range is 1 km, served by one person; C-576 Lightweight Mortar has a range of 1600 m, also serviced by one person; and C06A1 serviced by calculation


British marines firing from their 51-mm light mortar

Light mortars needed still?

The past two decades have witnessed the emergence of an ever-growing distinction between "classic" light mortars on the one hand, and simplified landing models on the other. This difference does not affect the caliber; all “classic” designs are 60-mm mortars and the same applies to most amphibious models that also fire the same ammunition (the only significant exceptions are the Israeli IMI COMMANDO 52 mm, FLY-K from Rheinmetall (ex-Titanite, ex -PRB) - also in 52 mm caliber, but it shoots completely different mines, and finally 51-mm L9A1 from BAE Systems). Rather, the difference between the two categories of light mortars lies in their respective characteristics and parameters relating to mass, size and range.

"Classic" models have a barrel length from 650 mm to 1000 m, are equipped with a bipod, have a weight of about 12 - 22 kg and a range of at least 2000 meters (up to some models), while their landing analogs have 3500 mm – 4000 mm trunk with a simple base plate, their weight is about 500 – 650 kg, the range does not exceed approximately 4,5 meters (therefore, the South African M10 range reaches 1000 meters is a notable exception).

The current generation of “classic” light 60-mm mortars is definitely able to offer improved operational flexibility for small infantry units destined for combat operations in a wide variety of theaters, providing adequate fire support and suppressive fire capability across the squares. On the other hand, it is indisputable that today's weapons are not much different from their predecessors half a century ago. Some improvements have been introduced (for example, recoil dampers, internal bipods, light alloy barrels for reduced weight, or expansion guide rings to exclude mine movements in the barrel), but they can hardly be called revolutionary. Maybe there is still some space for further development regarding sights (these are telescopic sights, optical-electronic devices, illuminated reticle for night firing, etc.), but, in general, it is possible to assume with caution that the “classic” light mortars almost completely exhausted their development potential.

The overall combat effectiveness and advantage of light mortars cannot be assessed separately and should rather be considered in the general context of all infantry weapons. While the advantages of light mortars have been described above, there are two main negative factors: perhaps increasing competition of hypertension (at least for some specific applications) and the fact that they usually require a three-person calculation for themselves. This is completely contrary to current trends in the field of serviced weapons at the level of separation and platoon.

We see a completely different situation in the area of ​​increasingly popular simple landing models that are carried and maintained by one soldier (although the second person is still needed to carry ammunition). Thus, they can be deployed to provide the infantry unit with their own full-time fire support without adversely affecting mobility on foot. In addition, some of the current landing models are not limited to indirect fire, and can also fire their mines on a flat or semi-fixed trajectory. This possibility is provided by the descent system, which replaced the traditional fixed motionless striker head, it also allows for the re-launch of mines in the event of a misfire.

As already noted, amphibious models usually have half the range compared with their "full-size" counterparts. This, of course, can be a serious limitation under certain combat conditions, but according to experts, this disadvantage is fully compensated by the advantage of the minimum range. The smaller the minimum effective range, the more effective this weaponry during combat in built-up areas. The average figure for amphibious models is 100 meters, but 50 meters are also attributed to some models.

A variety of concepts relating to light mortar sights have been adopted. Some manufacturers and users prefer extremely simple solutions, for example, a white sighting line drawn along the trunk and a range mark on the carrying strap; At the same time, configurations are gradually becoming more complex and range from optical sights embedded in carrying handles, range marks and vertical angles on the base plate around the barrel to a bubble gauge and up to the sophisticated British night sight L9A1. Mortar FLY-K from Rheinmetall has what is described as a unique system with a built-in inclinometer that allows you to bring the weapon to the desired position for firing by simply lifting the barrel until it is aligned with the appropriate brand of vertical angle stamped on the barrel.

Like their "classic" counterparts, the technological development of light assault mortars was limited in the recent past and it is difficult to imagine that significant breakthroughs could occur in the future. A possible direction for further improvements may be to reduce the signs of conspicuity (signatures), which are quite understandably a central element in ensuring the survival of the mortar design. The only currently available model for which an acceptable level of signature reduction is achieved is FLY-K, whose main characteristic is the use of a unique reactive unit combined with a stabilizer mine. This device captures projectile gases when fired, thus completely eliminating flash and smoke signatures, also reduces the noise signature caused by the impact of the base plate on the ground to about 40 dB on 100 meters. In addition, there is no heat exchange between the mine and the barrel, so that the mortar remains not detected by infrared homing heads and thermal warning systems.


The South African 40-mm AG Vektor works on the principle of long recoil shooting from an open bolt. The weapon weighs 29 kg plus 12 kg weighs the mounting foot. The ammunition box can be installed either on the left side of the receiver or on the right, so the feed direction can be changed without special tools. The maximum rate of fire is 425 shots / min, it can be reduced to 360 shots / min by changing the position of the muzzle brake


A US soldier assesses the capabilities of the Modular Accessory Shotgun System modular rifle. MASS combines the firepower and characteristics of an M4 5,56 mm rifle with the installation of various devices under and above the barrel. MASS allows a soldier to destroy long-range targets with a rifle, while having the advantage of the universality of smooth-bore ammunition cartridges for nearby targets

Automatic grenade launchers

Automatic grenade launchers (AH) are becoming more widespread in many armed forces around the world. At the same time, however, they are still the subject of a rather heated controversy, which concerns their characteristics and the corresponding operational aspects.

The issues of the dispute are quite clearly delineated. Some analysts and types of troops do not consider hypertension as a hybrid weapon system, whose deployment in small infantry units does not seem quite obvious due to the wide spread of fire support weapons for direct and indirect branch-level targeting, such as light / airborne mortars and UE or TP. However, others welcome the AH as truly universal weapons systems capable of effectively destroying a wide range of stationary and moving targets with direct and indirect fire suppression fire.

The recent combat experience, apparently, again led to the predictable conclusion that the AH and TP simply complement each other and to the question which of them is the best weapon can only be answered within a specific combat mission. A very interesting example is the development of the decisions of the French army. Recently, in order to increase gunner protection, the army launched an accelerated program to replace the open turret mount for an 12,7-mm machine gun on some VAB wheeled armored personnel carriers deployed in Afghanistan with the remotely controlled M151 PROTECTOR combat module from Kongsberg. But as soon as the upgraded vehicles entered the troops, a new emergency program was launched to replace at least some 12,7-mm TPs with the M151 module with 40-mm AGs. VAB machines with open installations, however, will retain their TP, possibly due to the excellent situational awareness of the shooter in this case.

Next, we will consider AG in two configurations: dismounted and installation on machines, the latter can even in many cases be considered as regular means of separation or platoon.

AH can be used for firing on interdiction from defensive positions or for providing offensive fire of their own troops, they fire directly and indirectly. Thanks to the use of fragmentation ammunition, AGs are much more effective against manpower compared to other fire support weapons firing direct fire, such as a UE and a TP, while also having a slightly longer practical range. Also, as already noted, AGs have additional capabilities for destroying a BBM. Special cumulative anti-tank shells are available mainly for Russian and Chinese AH, while West-oriented manufacturers and consumers increasingly prefer universal ammunition, such as the American model M430 HEDP, whose warhead is capable of penetrating 50-mm armor. (In this regard, M430 is considered in comparison with the standard M383 shot as the best solution for the destruction of personnel outside the shelter, despite its small lethal radius).

However, the low accuracy inherent in AG or more precisely their ammunition (mean deviation ± 10 m at a distance 1500 m) is a significant drawback especially when shooting at moving targets. In addition, the relatively small explosive charge of the 30 – 40 mm caliber embedded in the warhead, which is also initiated by the impact fuze (therefore, detonating on the ground, in contrast to the complex solution embedded in the VOG-25П Russian grenade), leads to less optimal lethal radius. In this regard, significant development efforts should have been focused on improving these characteristics.

Some manufacturers have taken the path of developing more efficient fuses. For example, the already mentioned M430 grenade has a fuse in the front, which, however, interferes with the cumulative jet (therefore, a relatively low penetration power compared to what one would expect from a warhead with such a diameter). SACO Defense, the original manufacturer of the ubiquitous Mk19, took a different path and offered a system equipped with a telescopic sight and laser rangefinder several years ago, which was a useful but modest improvement. Other manufacturers have gone further down the same path, presenting subsequent generations of AGs that are more or less based on the same architecture as the Mk19, but have more and more advanced sights. An example of such a trend would be the Heckler & Koch GMG model, which has a reflective telescopic sight. In addition to these partial improvements, real solutions to eliminate the shortcomings of traditional AG designs were found in the parallel development and implementation of two new technologies:

- Complicated sights with built-in laser range finders and ballistic calculators, which could be described as really miniature (and not too expensive) fire control systems (FCS) capable of doing ballistic calculations based on the distance to the target and the characteristics of the ammunition used; and,
- Air blast ammunition with a programmable remote fuse.


The individual XM25 air blast weapon is based on approximately the same principles that are adopted for the new generation of the AG (a full-fledged solution for capturing a target for escort, MSA and programmable ammunition), but its 25-mm air blast projectile rotates in contrast to the remote fuse (that is , the fuse counts the revolutions of the projectile). The types of shots 25x40 mm include high-explosive air blasting, armor-piercing, anti-personnel, concrete-piercing and non-lethal projectiles with a range of 500 m for point targets and up to 700 m in areas. The system is being developed by Heckler & Koch and Alliant Techsystems, while the target acquisition and fire control system is being developed by L-3 IOS Brashear. Current plans call for the purchase of 12500 XM25 grenade launchers at a planned cost of $ 25000 for the system.


The US Army began shipping a new M320 40 mm grenade launcher. The first subunit will be the 82 Airborne Division. M320. The grenade launcher will replace the current model M203, it greatly improves the accuracy of shooting day and night, thanks to a laser rangefinder and IR laser pointer. It is also more versatile, it can be mounted under the assault rifle barrel and shoot as a separate weapon, it is safer due to its double action descent.


The Milkor M32 semi-automatic grenade launcher in service with mostly American Marine Corps. It is a new principle of conducting suppressive fire over the squares with the same low-speed 40x46 mm grenades, like standard grenade launchers for assault rifles


The “eternal” large-caliber machine gun M2 12,7 mm, apparently, was on the way of decommissioning of modern armies as not meeting modern combat requirements. The fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, however, led to a sharp revision of its applicability, many of these weapons were removed from storage.

These two technologies complement each other when transforming automatic grenade launchers into much more effective weapon systems than was previously possible. Air blasting provides much better lethality, but of course this cannot be done without not "telling" the projectile the exact moment when it should detonate. On the other hand, the poor accuracy inherent in AG and their ammunition will probably make modern sights and MSAs useless if programmable fuses are not more accessible.

The principle of operation is inherited from technologies that were originally developed in the 70s and 80s for medium caliber and automatic aviation guns. Since each projectile passes through the muzzle of the gun, the selected detonation time is programmed in the fuse by a magnetic induction device (coil) associated with the FCS. Detonation time is calculated by the MSA based on the expected projectile flight time. A timer in the fuse counts down the time back to zero, and the projectile detonates at a given point, releasing a mass of highly lethal fragments towards the target.

The emergence of fire control systems in conjunction with air explosive ammunition changes everything. AGs can now be used much more efficiently when destroying area and linear targets (for example, personnel outside shelters, a column of unarmored or lightly armored vehicles along the road), and perhaps even air targets (for example, transport helicopters or assault helicopters from an ambush) due to their A new opportunity to fill with splinters volume in addition to the area. This principle of operation implies that the warhead can be created so as to release debris in the front cone, which translates into much greater efficiency (although the circular lethal radius of course decreases). Most models also include an additional shock fuse that can be deactivated by the shooter under special conditions (for example, when shooting in a wooded area or through dense thickets) and a permanent self-destructing device that prevents potential damage from an unexploded shell. It will also be possible to use AH to bombard certain open surfaces (for example, windows and doors in built-up areas) even under special conditions (for example, the absence of walls or other obstacles right outside the window or door), while it may be pointless to shoot through the breaches with standard ammunition shock fuse. It is quite clear that AGs also become very effective against hidden targets behind cover, although the lack of data from a rangefinder can lead to an approximate value in the remote fuse. Ammunition with a programmable remote fuse remains physically compatible with traditional conventional AH sights, but of course it cannot then be programmed for an air blast.

However, it is not necessary to say that such characteristics have their price. This concerns not only the weapon itself, but also the most likely ammunition; A programmable 40-mm projectile costs about 10 times as much as a standard projectile, even in the case of mass production. It definitely helps to understand why AG and ammunition of the new generation do not take the market by storm.

The General Dynamics American Mk47 STRIKER, which is equipped with a Raytheon AN / PGW-1 lightweight video sight and firing NAM MO PPHE high-performance air-assisted air attack munitions, is said to be the first air defense-assisted weapon system deployed around the world; but it is purchased in relatively small quantities mainly for special forces. This may be due to the emergence of new operational doctrines where at least some of the roles currently prescribed for AH can be performed by the XM25 Individual Airburst Weapon future air strikes, which include a more miniature version of most of the same technological advances as the Mk47.

Singapore Technologies Kinetics (STK) chose a different (and in a commercial sense much more intriguing) way and rather developed not a weapon system as such, but a “retrofit kit” consisting of an SLA, an explosive delay unit and an airborne programmable ammunition. This “kit” can be installed not only on STK models (this includes the original CIS-40 model, the lightweight version of the SLW with a mass reduced to 16 kg while maintaining the same rate of fire of the 350 shots / min and the super-light version of the SLWAGL), but also many other AG standard caliber 40 mm. There are no reports of any sales yet.


The new lightweight large-caliber 12,7-mm machine gun M806 entered service with the American army in 2011 year. The first units that received the new machine gun, became highly mobile forces, such as landing, mountain and special parts

Back to basics?

Cool attitude of the American army to the formulation adopted Mk47 as hypertension new generation originally written off to perform parallel XM307 ACSW program (Advanced Crew Served Weapons - advanced weapons, served by calculation) - grenade intended for firing with new high-speed grenades 25x59 mm proximity fuse ( not to be confused with the new low-speed grenade XM25 25x40 mm) and having a much larger actual range (up to 2000 meters) and a flat trajectory. The XM307 program was closed in 2007, however, shortly thereafter the XM312 program (the usual heavy machine gun, firing standard 12,7-mm cartridges and having a lot in common with XM307, which allows you to quickly change one configuration to another) was also closed due with poor field test results.

A pair of XM307 and XM312, as expected, will initially gradually replace most of the 12,7-mm machine guns, as well as the AG Mk19. After the closure of both programs, General Dynamics was given a contract to develop a new TP, which should replace M2. The new project originally received the designation LW50MG, and then was classified as (X) M806, now it is more likely considered as an add-on for M2, rather than replacing it.

The (X) M806 design is based on the recoil reduction principle developed for XM307. The new TP on the 50% is lighter (18 kg without attachment), it has a smaller 60% recoil force compared to M2, but at the same time it “paid” for it with a lower rate of fire (250 shots / min), although it is larger than the XM312. M806 began to enter the troops at the end of 2011 of the year. The first to receive it were landing, mountain and special units.

Materials used:
www.monch.com
www.soltam.co.il
www.heckler-koch.com
www.atk.com
www.generaldynamics.com
www.baesystems.com
Author:
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  1. erased
    erased 21 August 2014 09: 58
    +1
    The article is interesting, but here we consider the final segment of the justification of precisely such paths of development of part of the weapons of the department-company level. But in reality, the need for a particular type of weapon depends on a large number of factors and at the very top of the rationale is the strategy and concept of using the army as such. But it is long and rather tedious. However, without this in any way. Otherwise, it will be like ours - they will do something, but why and why they will later.
    1. bazilio
      bazilio 21 August 2014 10: 52
      0
      Quote: erased
      But in reality, the need for a particular type of weapon depends on a large number of factors

      I agree. At a minimum, the choice of type of weapon will depend on the terrain. Directly aiming weapons will be ineffective on rough terrain
  2. Lopatov
    Lopatov 21 August 2014 10: 02
    +1
    Light mortars, of course, are a good thing. However, bringing their combat effectiveness to modern requirements will be costly. First of all, these are new ammunition of increased power with new expensive fuses that ensure their detonation at the optimum height. These are new materials that provide less weight for mortars. These are new expensive sights for acceptable accuracy, with compact and lightweight topographic and orientation tools and ballistic computers
  3. bmv04636
    bmv04636 21 August 2014 10: 31
    +5
    not only light but also silent such a mortar 2B25 "Gall"
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 21 August 2014 11: 01
      0
      This is not an easy mortar. 82 mm is more of a battalion level for mobile units. Mountain, airborne, marines ...
      1. gross kaput
        gross kaput 21 August 2014 13: 40
        +5
        No, damn it, it’s a special-purpose weapon, in which, for the sake of secrecy of use and carrying, one fighter cut all other combat properties - an extremely short range and the same extremely low filling ratio - i.e. it is a purely sabotage weapon of no relation whatsoever to company companies, and even more so to battalion means of amplification, which does not have!
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 21 August 2014 19: 25
          0
          To begin with, one person is not enough to carry it. Ammunition, dear, ammunition ...
          Further, as a "diversionary means", its applicability is under a huge question, again because of the ammunition. However, as a means of support due to its stealth, it is very good. It is safe to shoot with semi-direct fire. What is not available for the "classics", it is calculated at once. Especially at dusk and at night. Also, such mortars are needed in the mountains - due to their low noise, they can be used in avalanche-prone areas.

          The fill factor here you are in vain dragged. It is calculated from the mass ratio. And not volumes. In addition, little says about the power of the ammunition at the target.
          1. gross kaput
            gross kaput 21 August 2014 22: 34
            +4
            Quote: Spade
            Further, as a "diversionary means", its applicability is under a huge question, again because of the ammunition. However, as a means of support due to its stealth, it is very good.

            Yes, damn it, but the creators of the ento mortar about this and don’t know! Painful on their website entu design how exactly to sabotage a means of advertising, you would have unsubscribed to them - enlightened the dark ones and they look at you and say thank you!
            Quote: Spade
            The fill factor here you are in vain dragged. It is calculated from the mass ratio.

            No, my friend is not in vain - mortar mines have always been "champions" in terms of filling ratio, because of the low pressure in the barrel, the mine body can be made with much thinner walls. Now take a look at the photo - How much do you think a Evon steel shank with a piston inside will weigh? If you don't understand from the photo, the mass of the enty dead weight in the form of a tail is decent and quite comparable to the mass of the "head part"?
            And here is the plate with the performance characteristics and so the mass of the mine 3.3 mass of the warhead 1,9 total on the tail accounts for 1,4 kg of dead weight - taking into account the fact that the 82 mm mine for the "tray" weighs the same 3,3 kg but does not have ballast in half a kilo - "a question for experts!" - in vain I dragged the coefficient or not?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 22 August 2014 00: 24
              0
              Quote: gross kaput
              Yes, damn it, but the creators of the ento mortar about this and don’t know! Painful on their site entu design how exactly sabotage means advertise

              Ecstasy was once advertised as a weight loss product. By the way, here's a link for you: http://www.burevestnik.com/products/2b25.html Please tell us where you dug up about the "sabotage tool"

              Quote: gross kaput
              "a question for experts!" - in vain I dragged the coefficient or not?

              Of course in vain. Because the mass of explosives in the standard 82-mm ten-fifth mine O-832du is only 0,454 kg of schneiderite with TNT plug. If you use your "information plate", then the 3BO35E, with its 1.9 kg, has a much higher filling factor. However, most likely you have misunderstood everything, and "warhead mass" means something completely different.

              By the way, for shrapnel ammunition, and 3BO35E and BO832DU are precisely these, the main characteristic is not the filling coefficient, but the number of fragments and the radius of the affected area. And here you can only guess. 3BO35E is not stamping, it could well enhance the fragmentation effect on the target, using various kinds of special methods such as an internal notch.
              1. gross kaput
                gross kaput 22 August 2014 02: 15
                +2
                Well, you listed all the fragmentation mines, and even indicated the mass of explosives and the type of mine that is used in the Halle - high-explosive fragmentation, well, they would compare it with the only high-explosive fragmentation mine at the moment to the "tray" - Z-O- 26, something doesn't add up?
                Quote: Spade
                However, most likely you have misunderstood everything, and "warhead mass" means something completely different.

                Yes, no, I understood correctly - the mass of warheads is not the mass of explosives, and if the shrapnel mines have a carcass weighing no less than 2,5 and put 450g into it. then how much will fit in Gall's warhead?
                Quote: Spade
                Please tell us where you dug out there about the "sabotage tool"

                Yes, you understand at the bottom of the page
                "All these qualities make the mortar attractive for use by special forces, including in counter-terrorist operations."
                Well, although yes, probably according to yours they must necessarily be written in capital letters - "Especially for saboteurs"
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 22 August 2014 09: 25
                  0
                  Quote: gross kaput
                  from the only high-explosive fragmentation to the "tray" at the moment - Z-O-26,

                  Hello, we’ve arrived. In fact, it is also the most fragmentary, and the explosive in it is even smaller, 441 grams

                  Quote: gross kaput
                  Well, although yes, probably according to yours they must necessarily be written in capital letters - "Especially for saboteurs"

                  That is, they did not find anything about the "sabotage". Which is natural.

                  To destroy the openly located enemy manpower, 95 82-mm mines per hectare are required. Minus a quarter, we assume that the target is hit with a shot. And we get an enchanting picture: twenty unfortunate saboteurs, moving forward in small rushes behind enemy lines, in order to hit one target, a motorized infantry platoon resting

                  This mortar can become a sabotage agent only if its ammunition is equipped with guided ammunition.
                  1. gross kaput
                    gross kaput 22 August 2014 12: 14
                    +2
                    Well, the fact that you really like to juggle it is understandable, let’s try on the other hand - specifically to look for something too lazy, at hand only the full data of Singapore mines are NOT - so we’ll use them
                    60 mm NOT - mine weight 1684gr, weight of the steel body 870gr, fuse weight 271g, weight of aluminum shank 86g, explosive weight 250g.
                    THOSE. the mass of a 60mm mine carcass is quite comparable to the mass of a warhead gall and, accordingly, the characteristics will be quite comparable, and certainly less than that of the "correct" 81-82 mm mines.
                    Now with regard to mortars, the Gall weighs 13 kg, and the American 60 mm M224A1 on a light plate 16 kg, while casting mines comparable in power to 3 km, and allows you to have 2 times more portable ammunition due to 2 times less weight of the mine.
                    Quote: Spade
                    To destroy the openly located enemy manpower, 95 82-mm mines per hectare are required. Minus a quarter, we assume that the target is hit with a shot. And we get an enchanting picture: twenty unfortunate saboteurs, moving forward in small rushes behind enemy lines, in order to hit one target, a motorized infantry platoon resting

                    However, you have a strange opinion about the tactical niche of special intelligence - i.e. according to your GRU special forces, Vympel and other special subversive units were created to destroy at least one enemy regiment in an open battle to destroy? And that silent mortars were created exclusively for plowing the hectors of the earth? Oh well
                    Although if you think about it, you can understand - you all understand perfectly, but you begin to distort once having written stupidity and not wanting to admit it.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 22 August 2014 14: 57
                      +1
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      Okay, you really like to distort

                      To "juggle" is to give specific numbers? Clear. And "do not juggle" is to determine the filling factor from the photograph ...

                      Quote: gross kaput
                      However, you have a strange opinion about the tactical niche of special intelligence - i.e. according to your GRU special forces, Vympel and other special subversive units were created to destroy at least one enemy regiment in an open battle to destroy? And that silent mortars were created exclusively for plowing the hectors of the earth? Oh well

                      And for what, here tell me Kali weasel. Why do they need this miracle weapon? If an ordinary radio station in their hands behind enemy lines possesses immeasurably greater power? Why should they carry such a weight if the capabilities of this mortar with such a meager BC are near-zero?
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. kplayer
                        kplayer 22 August 2014 18: 07
                        +1
                        A grouped and organized adversary poses a great danger to special forces during special operations (for example, rescue), often with special forces opposing superior enemy forces, or formations capable of quickly gaining reinforcements, or increasing numerically (usually at night and in the predawn hours). For the disorganization and disorientation of the enemy, hidden silent volleys of such mortars can help (of course, in the event of an undesirable development of events), for example: to suppress foci of organized defense / counteraction, to create, at a decisive moment, an operation of short-term obstructive fire on suitable enemy reinforcements, or pursuing groups / goals.
                        Considering that during such operations, various target groups are formed (observation and coordination, assault, distraction, cover), it is possible to use the "gall" mortar (2-3 units) to stop the consolidated operational formations (detachments) of special forces of about 30-40 people. ., but not as separate reconnaissance groups of 4-6 people.
                        Classic mortars are used by units of "raiders" and "green berets" (60-mm) and the British SAS (81-mm), 82-mm "Tray" is no exception, the "Gall" mortar only reduces risks and increases trenches for more successful (hidden ) conducting missions.
                        On rough terrain compared to direct-fire firing guns, the mortar does not require a more careful choice of position (i.e., on the possible routes of approach of the enemy’s reserves or its own withdrawal), it is possible to coordinate the fire independently of the landscape due to the hinged trajectory and as a result of a longer range firing.
                        In light units abroad, the transfer of ammunition on the march is practiced not only by the crew (for "Gall" - 2 people, 4x82-mm rounds), but l / s of the entire unit (group, squad, platoon) to which a fire crew / firing section is assigned two 81-mm shots, for example, in a side pocket of a backpack, unloading along a chain to a previously unfolded calculation position.
                      3. padonok.71
                        padonok.71 22 August 2014 19: 50
                        0
                        And what’s the direct fire of AGS (as I understand it insistently) just shot it?
                        And split into a group of BC GO, not only foreigners do that. Our tea is no worse.
                      4. kplayer
                        kplayer 23 August 2014 00: 51
                        0
                        Quote: padonok.71
                        And what’s the direct fire of AGS (as I understand it insistently) just shot it?

                        Somehow somehow did not encounter third-party adjustment of the AGS fire, unlike mortars. Direct fire can be either on a lay-up or on a mounted trajectory, as well as shooting from closed positions. Or now the method of pointing the AGS does not fall under the definition: direct fire?
                        Quote: padonok.71
                        And split into a group of BC GO, not only foreigners do that. Our tea is no worse.

                        With us, more often and as soon as possible, then according to the principle "according to the service life" (or "not supposed"), and about combat-ready light miningrifle Until recently, units (NOT special forces units) of the RA / CA have not been heard.
                      5. padonok.71
                        padonok.71 23 August 2014 19: 37
                        0
                        Well, it’s in vain that we didn’t come across. Of course, this is not the work of the PDA and it looks like this: "Kolya, 50 farther, 11 o'clock! Short!" But still! As an emergency mode, there is such a possibility. Naturally PAG, aside! And if they also gave GLD, then it is generally normal.
                        Passing the deadline, for the entire period, even in my thoughts when it was not, they will refuse the "makeweight". The guys would not "understand". And how the foreman would not "understand"!
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                  3. kplayer
                    kplayer 25 August 2014 22: 14
                    +1
                    Quote: kplayer
                    On rough terrain compared to direct-fire firing guns, the mortar does not require a more careful choice of position (i.e., on the possible routes of approach of the enemy’s reserves or its own withdrawal), it is possible to coordinate the fire independently of the landscape due to the hinged trajectory and as a result of a longer range firing.

                    Considering that several target groups of SP are dispersed and operate in the area of ​​the operation, the use of AGS along a hinged path, i.e. into the blind, otherwise you will not say - not the same! Comparing the effectiveness of the ACS and the 82-mm mortar above, it was not by chance that the terrain was mentioned, the possibility of working on top of the forest, buildings, elevations was implied, here the priority is for the mortar. In addition, the ballistics of 30x29-mm grenade and 82-mm mortar rounds (shape and weight) are different, so the dispersion when firing from the ASG (in comparison with the mortar) will not allow more accurate and withОwith a guarantee to lay ammunition in the immediate vicinity, but at a safe distance from the positions of their groups. It would be worthwhile to recall the effect of snow cover on the effectiveness of ammunition.
  • gross kaput
    gross kaput 21 August 2014 12: 09
    +2
    Do not confuse a platoon / company support weapon with special weapons, and besides, nothing is new under the moon - the Belgian FLY-K PRB appeared 40 years earlier.
    Well, "Gall" is a further development of the idea of ​​our 60-70s grenade launchers. "Product D" and "Product DM" were very niche designs for a "special period" of which very few people in the GRU special forces knew about.
    1. bmv04636
      bmv04636 21 August 2014 14: 40
      +2
      Somehow early at dawn came out:
      The 2B25 mortar complex is designed for special forces and provides high secrecy of combat use through the use of unique technologies that reduce or completely eliminate unmasking signs of firing. The know-how developed and applied by the engineers of the Central Research Institute "Burevestnik" provides the new mortar with noiselessness, flamelessness and smokeless use. These new qualities of artillery weapons provide an opportunity for covert and sudden use. The insignificant weight and dimensions of the 2B25 mortar allow one person not only to easily transport it on himself, but also to carry out parachute landing.

      Specifications:
      Caliber, mm ................................... 82
      Weight, kg, no more ......................... 13
      Rate of fire, rds / min. ..............fifteen
      Guidance angles, degrees
      vertically .......................... from +45 to +85
      horizontally ....................... + / - 4 (with rearrangement of the bipod - 360)
      Firing range, m
      max ............................................ 1200
      min ...........................................100
      Transfer time from traveling
      in combat, min. .............................. no more than 0,5
      Calculation, people ................................. 2
      Applied 3VO35 Silent Shrapnel Shot
      Length, m ................................... 0,6
      Caliber, mm ..................... ........... 82
      Weight, kg .................................. 3,3
      Mass of warhead, kg .............................. 1,9
      The initial speed of mines, m / s .............. 122
      Wearable ammunition, pcs. ......................4
  • PeaceByForce
    PeaceByForce 21 August 2014 10: 46
    +1
    Why is such a method of enhancing firepower not considered as "disposable grenade launchers"? Bumblebee, for example, bounces like a 152mm projectile. Infantry squads can be armed with grenade launchers without creating new support units.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 21 August 2014 11: 03
      0
      Disposable ones have a small range and there is no way to fire indirectly. AH and light mortars can do this very well.
  • vomag
    vomag 21 August 2014 11: 03
    +1
    Light mortars do not justify themselves at all how (except for fighting in the mountains) they were abandoned even during the 2nd world. The Germans after 43 rather reduced the staff to 44mm in 81m and added 120mm (we can’t talk about 50mm and 37) ....see photo British Marines firing from their 51 mm light mortarhahaha that’s the essence of easy-minom. Allah himself will send a mine on the heads of infidels !!!! for where she will fly and where they will get knows the highest God! About AG, then (for example) in Chechnya, they took TP12.7 and not AGS to exit in the conditions of a mountain-forested one ....
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 21 August 2014 12: 40
      +5
      Quote: vomag
      Light mortars do not justify themselves at all

      Yeah, probably that’s why in the 60-70xx in almost all Western countries, company mortars of 50-60mm caliber were returned to service again?
      Quote: vomag
      The Germans after 43 rather in 44m reduced the staff of 81mm and added 120mm (about 50mm and 37 it is not necessary to talk)

      There is no need to compare a pencil with a finger different wars - different requirements for weapons, in a global war with fronts of thousands of kilometers, multi-million armies of hundreds of thousands of pieces of equipment and heavy weapons, they really do not make the difference, but in conditions of "low intensity conflicts" a thing is quite useful ...
      1. vomag
        vomag 21 August 2014 12: 56
        +1
        Yes, yes, that's why in the next conflict they will again lie down at the warehouse. Because the Papuans in the 3rd world will go and the lungs will go, but in the conflict between (approximately equal states), convincing requests for a larger-caliber mortar will go from the front .. although we watch on TV the so-called ***** (anti-terrorist operation) so there the hail of tulips the tornadoes reached the points! and imagine no light mortars! Not a single I.D.O.T.T. in Kuev it never occurred to ask them from Western countries! and I.D.I.O.T.O.V.there was simply in bulk
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 21 August 2014 14: 46
          0
          These are mortars for close contact: 150 - 300 m.
          Close contact requires a high general level of training.
          foot soldiers. What is not yet in the Ukrainian army.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 21 August 2014 14: 16
      +2
      Do not tell, do not tell ...
      The IDF tried to refuse them. But the "people" (army)
      demanded. You are right that accuracy is not worth a penny.
      But this ugly piece of iron is dragged by one person behind his back on a belt especially
      without breaking. A 50 mm grenade, by the way, makes a "boom"
      very impressive. And if you throw them towards the enemy
      a few pieces quickly - albeit inaccurate -
      then the enemy will "bend his head" (lie down) for sure. What is required: a couple of minutes to change position, reload the machine gun, report on the radio, etc.,
    3. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 21 August 2014 16: 50
      +4
      Quote: vomag
      About AG then (at, for example) in Chechnya they took TP12.7 and not AGS with them in a mountainous-wooded area ....

      In more detail, pliz ... an example would be nice too.

      The fact is that if a group goes with a peshandral, then the AGS or NSV takes it with itself only when there is a SPECIFIC purpose for this weapon.
      And if there is no such goal, then no one will carry such weapons on hand.
      Choking. Too much weight and the inability to take a sufficient amount of b / p.
      Somehow I had to shake him, the whole division of the barrel was disassembled in parts, and two boxes with cartridges were generally broken into 5 cells of 10 oil ... and "pleasure" - only 100 oil.
      Those. I repeat once again - if there is no SPECIFIC task and goals namely for NSV-12,7 or AGS, they were not taken.

      It is better (when you walk in Nature with your "legs") to take a couple of extra company PC, but the zinc on 440 is oily - more sense and more effective.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 21 August 2014 19: 56
        +5
        Quote: Aleks tv
        it is taken with itself only when there is a SPECIFIC purpose under this weapon.

        Rather, when the result should be the occupation and retention of dominant heights. With the buildup of fire capabilities afterwards. But even in this version, they tried to pull heavy weapons later, after occupying the heights.

        Quote: Aleks tv
        It is better (when you are walking in Nature with your "legs") to take a couple of extra company PCs, and zinc at 440 oil is more useful and more effective.

        And even better, the commander art. batteries with a radio station. Firstly, it does not need to be carried, it is self-propelled, and secondly, its fire capabilities exceed the fire capabilities of both the AGS and NSVS.
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 21 August 2014 21: 04
          +3
          Quote: Spade
          Rather, when the result should be the occupation and retention of dominant heights.

          Ага.
          NSV on a hill or mountain block post is an amazing thing.
          The intelligent machine gunner will not let anyone in the range of small arms.
          It is possible to smoke it only with the same heavy weapons.

          Well, a mortar in the mountains is the sweetest thing.

          Quote: Spade
          secondly, its fire capabilities exceed the fire capabilities of both the AGS and NSVS.

          smile
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 21 August 2014 21: 38
            +2
            Quote: Aleks tv
            NSV on a hill or mountain block post is an amazing thing.

            A normal sighting system with a thermal imager is directly asking for it. Especially in the mountains.
            However, the AGS with anti-sniper complex is also a thing. Immediately you can set the brains of fans to shoot in the direction of the block from the shooter.
    4. Nagaibak
      Nagaibak 22 August 2014 02: 48
      +1
      vomag "The Germans, after 43, rather in 44m reduced the staff to 81mm and added 120mm (there is no need to talk about 50mm and 37) .."
      In the Red Army, the company also had 50mm mortars in service. They were fully equipped. But they were also abandoned. The range was small and the Germans knocked out the calculations. In 41-42, they still ran with them, and then everything remained 82mm, 120mm and from 160mm it seemed. And the mortars of the spade, company, and mortars, all different, have sunk into eternity.
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 21 August 2014 11: 38
    +1
    Quote: vomag
    About AG then (at, for example) in Chechnya they took TP12.7 and not AGS with them in a mountainous-wooded area ....

    Because it’s hard to drag snails. And not because of their low efficiency.
  • vomag
    vomag 21 August 2014 11: 53
    +1
    Let me disagree with you! Performance characteristics

    Caliber, mm 12,7
    Rate of fire, rounds per minute> 600
    Muzzle velocity, m / s 820 - 860
    Aiming range, m 2000
    Barrel weight 9,25 kg
    The mass of the equipped store, kg 11,1
    Tape weight with 50 rounds, kg 7,7

    The angle of horizontal aiming the machine gun on the bipod, deg. ± 15
    Accuracy of combat at a distance of 100 m, mm <300
    Technical resource, shots 10000
    Penetration per 100 m, mm up to 20
    Caliber, mm
    30x29B
    Weight with a machine (without ammunition), kg 16
    Weight of the box with grenades, kg 13,7
    Length, mm 840
    Barrel length, mm 290
    Initial speed, m / s 185
    Effective range, m 800 (point targets)
    1700 (maximum)
    Rate of fire, rds / min 400
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 21 August 2014 12: 18
      +1
      Well, where did you disagree with me? The AGS-17 snail with 29 grenades weighs in the region of 14 kg, while in the NSVS box with 50 cartridges weighs 11 kg.
      1. vomag
        vomag 21 August 2014 12: 41
        +1
        So what? 3kg difference! they took 12.7 by the fact that the fighting power is higher and not because of the snails ... in a mountain-wooded forest it is preferable to TP .. now you will go soon for mushrooms to the forest and think how you will fight with AGS ...
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 21 August 2014 13: 01
          +5
          Quote: vomag
          So what? 3kg difference!

          Sorry, but 50> 29


          Quote: vomag
          now you’ll go soon for mushrooms to the forest and think how you’ll fight with AGS there ...

          Dear, I went through Chemulga with the "West" group. Not only NSVS and AGS-17, but also 82-mm mortars and "Fagots", with 113 missiles, were dragged into the "mountain-wooded" one.

          As for the AGS - on the southern outskirts of Pionerskoye, near a gas station in the courtyard, there were three AGSs, which regularly processed the reverse slope on which the militants hung out. Harassing fire three at once. On a snail to the trunk. Instead of "good morning"
          Plus, next to the KNP DShK stood on the anti-aircraft machine. As an anti-sniper tool.

          You understand, each vegetable has its own garden, you do not need these generalizations of NSVS vs AGS in the style of the Discovery channel.
          1. vomag
            vomag 21 August 2014 13: 42
            +1
            Ohhh i'm ok approving good respect! but I talked about the exits when the raid group left for a couple of three days! rummaged there in the mountains, then they pulled with them mostly 12.7 .... and the AGS at the block of posts in addition to everything else so I did not deny it!
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 21 August 2014 19: 44
              0
              They pulled everything they could pull. And AGS was used very actively.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 21 August 2014 12: 19
      +1
      Quote: Metlik
      Light vehicles (buggies, ATVs, motorcycles) could solve this problem, and mobility will increase significantly.

      What for? The unit has a BMP / BTR.
  • lexx2038
    lexx2038 21 August 2014 14: 17
    +1
    We need every weapon and a lot - the situation requires. Everything that plows, smacks, etc. - everything is necessary, already yesterday.
  • padonok.71
    padonok.71 21 August 2014 14: 43
    +3
    I consider the vicious practice of oversaturation of the motorized rifle squad to be reinforced. Branch - the basic unit, which is already quite armed.
    The personnel of the MCO is equipped with small arms:
    - Branch commander - AK-74 assault rifle;
    - gunner-operator BMP / gunner gunner BTR - pistol PM (AK-74);
    - BMP mechanic driver / BTR driver / - PM pistol (AK-74);
    - sniper - sniper rifle Dragunov (SVD);
    - senior shooter - AK-74 assault rifle;
    - machine gunner - RPK-74 machine gun;
    - shooter-grenade launcher - RPG-7 manual anti-tank grenade launcher;
    - Assistant shooter-grenade launcher - AK-74 assault rifle;
    - shooter - AK-74 assault rifle.
    In addition, the armament of the department may have PG-25 grenade launchers - 1 (2), MANPADS ("Igla"). And of course, the BTR / BMP itself.
    Another thing is that for the performance of individual tasks, MCOs can be assigned calculations of heavy weapons (GS, AGS, KKP, ATGM, etc., up to MBT and SMU). I think this is the right approach. And there is no need to come up with any "strike brigades", breaking the normal, WORKING, structure of the organization.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 21 August 2014 19: 43
      0
      And where does the motorized rifle / motorized infantry division? Light mortars is a company level.
      1. padonok.71
        padonok.71 21 August 2014 19: 51
        +2
        Your knowledge delights and amazes. And the department here despite the fact that read the article ATTENTIVELY and FIRST. And there will be an answer to you.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 21 August 2014 20: 21
          +1
          Read it yourself. And it's better to familiarize yourself with the OShS of infantry / motorized infantry / motorized rifle units. The only fact I know of reinforcing the squads themselves is the regular "javelins" in the mechanized infantry squads of the US Army's heavy motorized infantry brigades.
          Everything else is a section / platoon / company of "heavy weapons" or "fire support"

          For example, the Italians: at the platoon level there is a fire support squad, two MGs and one 60 mm light mortar. And at the company level - "Plotone Supporto alla Manovra" - art. spotter with his car, sniper pair with "barrets", 3 81-mm mortars and two launchers "Spike-MR"
          1. padonok.71
            padonok.71 21 August 2014 23: 04
            +1
            Yes, I read. And here is what I read:
            Accordingly, dissenting opinions have been put forward and are being put forward regarding improving the combat effectiveness of the infantry platoon and squad regarding mobility, autonomy and firepower.

            The need to increase firepower has long become apparent to regular fire support equipment, this would allow a hurried platoon and squad to immediately respond to a threat, not depending solely on fire support provided by the corresponding armored combat vehicles (BBVs) or, even worse, the upper echelons. Indeed, the availability of full-time fire support at the platoon and squad level

            And so on ...
            And with the OShS (including the Verprot armies), they introduced me to the RVDKU them. V.F. Margelova and then somewhere else. So what else do I remember.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 22 August 2014 00: 36
              0
              Quote: padonok.71
              Accordingly, dissenting opinions have been put forward and are being put forward regarding improving the combat effectiveness of the infantry platoon and squad regarding mobility, autonomy and firepower.

              And where is it about the fact that there will be additional OS in the department to give? Almost all foreign units in motorized infantry platoons have compartments or sections of fire support as an addition to the three infantry divisions. It’s with us that they are being cut, even an anti-tank and machine-gun platoon of a company not on BMP was reduced to an anti-tank compartment.


              Quote: padonok.71
              And with the OShS (including the Verprot armies), they introduced me to the RVDKU them. V.F. Margelova

              And who knows you, they suddenly ran away to the neighbors in Seltsy for the mosquito’s funeral, and the next day they all slept through lectures. Tell you how you came to the enrollment? Fish, ferry ... Also started like that. Only you went right, and I left. There where there are many crosses with coordinates. ХУh. I hope they understood what I mean.
              1. padonok.71
                padonok.71 22 August 2014 09: 09
                0
                Well, I don’t know how else to get across to you. Stay with yours. Moreover, according to your comments, I see that you are a big fan of arguing.
                PS: I didn’t go to the university, from the troops on presentation, so your "childish" things ...
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 22 August 2014 09: 43
                  0
                  Quote: padonok.71
                  Well, I don’t know how else to get across to you.

                  Not worth it, it's useless. OSh vrazhin I still remember.


                  Quote: padonok.71
                  I didn’t go to the university, I didn’t come from the troops on presentation, so your "childish" things ...

                  Kolomna mosquitoes were buried not at the abyss, but before release, during the commissioning of the practical part of the state. Are you sure you studied at the RVDKU?
                  1. padonok.71
                    padonok.71 22 August 2014 10: 43
                    0
                    I explain again, I already entered the officer (not a junior). Closed courses and our course had no time for "pranks". Training for 1,5 years. Hint - I'm not a "goblin". Motorized rifle buttonholes. 95 g. A clever one will understand.
    2. foreman11
      foreman11 22 September 2014 20: 18
      0
      I would replace the RPK-74 with a Pecheneg, this will significantly add power to the fireman
    3. The comment was deleted.
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 21 August 2014 15: 32
    0
    "New light heavy 12,7 mm machine gun M806" ////

    He did not join the troops, as far as I know. "Eternal" Browning 0.5
    has (issued since 1933) all chances to celebrate 100 years in service.
  • gross kaput
    gross kaput 21 August 2014 15: 59
    +3
    Quote: voyaka uh
    He did not go to the troops

    And why would he have to go to the troops? the stub of the OCSW program is an attempt to at least somehow repel the headstock invested in it, as a result the machine gun received a bunch of shortcomings from the XM307 / 312 system and not one of their advantages, but in the end, he wins the old man M2NV only in weight, and in all other respects it is important for KP lags behind the parameters, and at the same time it costs like a dozen Browning.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 21 August 2014 16: 14
      0
      Not all designs work out. This is normal.
      For example, the much more expensive and wound XM25 -
      grenade launcher with a laser rangefinder - it turned out so
      it's good that the customers, marines and infantrymen, "fought" for orders:
      "the bigger, the better". He had overwhelming success in Afghanistan.
      Much more effective than automatic grenade launchers. Instead
      two dozen grenades and hundreds of bullets undermine one grenade exactly above the backs
      militants - and ... that's it. The battle is over.
      1. bmv04636
        bmv04636 21 August 2014 16: 58
        +1
        and behind the hill you can also undermine
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 21 August 2014 19: 32
        0
        Quote: voyaka uh
        blowing up one grenade exactly over your backs
        militants - and ... that's it. The battle is over.

        Because the militants did not have personal protective equipment.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 21 August 2014 23: 42
          -1
          A grenade is detonated over people lying on their stomachs at a low height
          slightly behind. On the range finder is set: distance plus meter, or plus 2 meters.
          Shards affect the lower back and thigh-legs.
          Those places where there is no individual protection.
          This terrible thing is ХМ25 ... All that they taught me how to hide is a dog under the tail.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 22 August 2014 00: 41
            +1
            Dear, but a splinterproof suit? It is the Americans who turn their helmets into caps, but everything is harsh here.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 22 August 2014 18: 30
              -1
              You want to say that in Russia, soldiers wear suits, in
              which are protected from splinters the back of the hips and lower legs ???
  • kplayer
    kplayer 21 August 2014 17: 34
    +1
    Thus, a more or less common practice is to equip with universal machine guns and light machine guns platoons of fire support for the main infantry companies (very significant in the case of companies of the American Marine Corps equipped with the M240G 7,62 mm UP and a light mortar M224 60 mm), while TP and AGs are assigned to fire support companies (for example, a marine infantry company has a support platoon with six mm M2HB 12,7 TP and six MK19 40 mm AG).

    More precisely:
    Platoon of fire support of the rifle company MP, section (department):
    - mortar (60 mm M224 - 3 calculations);
    - grenade launcher (83 mm RPG Mk.153 SMAW - 6 calculations);
    - machine gun (7,62 mm M240G - 9 calculations)
    Fire support company of the MP infantry battalion, platoons:
    - mortar (8 calculations 81 mm M252, 4 firing sections)
    - anti-tank anti-tank (24 127 mm Javelin anti-tank systems, 4 sections)
    - grenade launcher (16 40 mm Mk.19 mod.3, 4 sections)
    - machine gun (8 12,7 mm M2NV, 4 sections)
    Those. each of the 3 mouths of the MP battalion is assigned 6 AH and TP (4x40 mm Mk.19 and 2x12,7 mm M2NV), the rest are in reserve, they are usually installed on 2,5 t HMMWV, 4x4 vehicles. The reserve of the battalion also has one of the 4 mortar (2x81-mm each) and Fri (8 ATGM) sections.

    PS: Translation of the paragraph "pleases".
  • Free wind
    Free wind 21 August 2014 19: 35
    0
    Automatic grenade launchers. more and more in demand. Well, the truth is, you need to put them on infantry vehicles. And the BMP or armored personnel carrier will be able to create such a barrage of fire !!!!!!!!!! Caliber increase. well up to 50mm-60mm. Increase the range, It seems such a grenade launcher. really needed in the arsenal of infantry vehicles!
    1. padonok.71
      padonok.71 21 August 2014 23: 30
      0
      And wearable ones are not automatic rechargeable ones either. gross kaput - DO NOT. SQUAL is not always required. More often it is necessary to give 2-3 shots in the direction to "press down" a little. Half a year ago, we argued with one paratrooper major (combat) at the shooting range, needed / not needed. Gave to try GMka, gross kaput - NOT NECESSARY! The answer was - ABOUT .... I! FOR .... SLEEP! and a box of "little white".
      Although if in a combined arms .... maybe the truth is yours. Although the cases are trenching and "trenching", and "secrets", and patrols, and foot security .... in short, it will not be superfluous.
  • Iskander
    Iskander 22 August 2014 10: 23
    0
    http://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/117/1351879-0.html
    take part in the discussion of the era of shotguns
    http://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/294/1345610-0.html
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Signaller
    Signaller 22 August 2014 21: 42
    0
    Yes, it took place during the Second World War. Fighters with a mortar in the form of shovels. Even in the literature it has been described. A company attack with 50 mm mortars in the form of a shovel. Type squeak. It all ended in failure. Almost everyone died and everyone abandoned. All of these mortars are 50 millimeters — so little farts — no more. We are not talking about all kinds of hypertension. This is more serious and reliable. Although you see where you are shooting.
  • saygon66
    saygon66 24 August 2014 23: 16
    0
    - Grenade launcher-shovel "Variant" Used ammunition - VOG-25 .. weight - 2 kg ... In the series did not go.