Expert: China is not so much interested in the Su-35C itself, as its engine

Representatives of the Russian side said at the Rosoboronexpo-2014 exhibition that negotiations on the delivery of China’s Su-35C fighters were very difficult, but are currently close to completion, reports Military Parity.

On this occasion, one of the Chinese experts (the name is not indicated) writes in his article that Beijing is primarily “interested in acquiring, together with fighter engines, the 117С (AL-41F-1С) engines, which have significantly better characteristics than the ALD 31F and Chinese FWS-15 developed on its basis. ”

In the AL-41F-1C engine, about 80% of the components and assemblies are newly made. It “has new low and high pressure compressors, a combustion chamber, the diameter is increased from 0,905 m to 0,932 m. The engine has a digital control system. 86 kN afterburner, 142 kN afterburner. Indicators AL-31F respectively: 75 kN and 122,5 kN. In addition, the estimated service life of the upgraded power plant is 4 thousand hours (AL-31F - 900 hour.), The period of the first technical repair - after 1 thousand hours. (AL-31F - after 300 hour.).

It is assumed that the AL-41F-1C will "reserve power plant for the Chinese fighter new generation J-20, since augmented power FWS-15, established on the basis of AL-31FN-1M (it is equipped with fighter J-10) reaches only 135 kN that is not enough for an aircraft of this type. "

According to the "Military Parity", China hopes to acquire 24 Su-35 aircraft at the rate of 5 engines for each vehicle (two sets plus one standby). Total 120 engines 117C (AL-41F-1C).

Comments

[sergey261180]

It would not be bad to arm yourself first.

[portoc65]

The Chinese are interested in everything that can be stolen .. this is not called theft, but intelligence ...

[Alexei]

Quote: portoc65

The Chinese are interested in everything that can be stolen .. this is not called theft, but intelligence.

Oh, old portoc65, hello. How are the aunts in the office doing?
I see nothing unusual. Everyone has something "tybryat". Only an analogue is obtained, which is almost always worse than the original, and this cannot but rejoice.

[portoc65]

I like the Chinese .. I was in China .. they look you in the eyes .. smile and make a fool .. sell three things more expensive any thing just because you are European .... and FIGs will not be released until you buy it. And in the morning people brings sports to the street ... and a simple hotel clerk turned out to be a well-known Wushu master who comes from all over the world ... with our Pioneers and Komsomol badges on his cap ... a good country ... you watch a movie on TV ... all erotic scenes are roughly cut out. . even where they are quoted ...

[Naval]

you watch a movie on TV ... all erotic scenes are roughly cut out ... even where they are being quoted ...

This is so that the birth rate does not increase, they are protected

[Myth]

They cut out scenes of kisses so that people would not be excited once again, and they multiply like rabbits.

[s1н7т]

Quote: portoc65

and the hotel’s simple receptionist turned out to be a well-known Wushu master to whom people from all over the world come ..

Our officer in the neighbors was "Chinese". Some certificates, diplomas - 6 years old wushu, like, from childhood. The very first fight with the "free-spirits" (civilian SA, if anything) put everything in its place - RB came to us to study

[HAM]

AND IF THERE WOULD NOT CUT EROTIC FROM FILMS, THERE WOULD THERE BE BILLIONS THERE ARE SIX-JOKE !!

[Dmitry Toderes]

Quote: Alexej

I see nothing unusual. Everyone has something "tybryat". Only an analogue is obtained, which is almost always worse than the original, and this cannot but rejoice.

Well, yes, if the Chinese were able to make military aviation of the same quality as the Russian Federation or Sweden, it would not be a plane, but horror flying on the wings of the night.

P.S. I remembered a joke from my life - I saw a Svidomo comment on one site that reported about a downed Ukrainian MiG - so he wrote that MiGs are nonsense, and they will soon fly on raptors.

[T100]

Dude meant pterodactyls ...

[inkass_98]

Quote: T100

Dude meant pterodactyls ...

They did not study well at school, like the Americans - raptors of flightless predatory lizards, and pterodactyls (as the common name for flying lizards) for the most part could not take off from the ground, and only from the hills - trees, rocks and other things - due to the peculiarities of the wing structure, as well as its scope.
And on the topic - whoever doubted the Chinese had a problem with aircraft engines, they would copy gliders anyway, they would buy or copy avionics. And without engines, you can only ponty pound and roll out mock-ups at the request of the most respected public.

[Dmitry Toderes]

Quote: inkass_98

Quote: T100

Dude meant pterodactyls ...

They did not study well at school, like the Americans - raptors of flightless predatory lizards, and pterodactyls (as the common name for flying lizards) for the most part could not take off from the ground, and only from the hills - trees, rocks and other things - due to the peculiarities of the wing structure, as well as its scope.
And on the topic - whoever doubted the Chinese had a problem with aircraft engines, they would copy gliders anyway, they would buy or copy avionics. And without engines, you can only ponty pound and roll out mock-ups at the request of the most respected public.

The Chinese have not only a problem with engines. Generally a problem with metal products.

[armageddon]

Hmm ... I think it’s not so easy to copy the engine ... Alloys ... Technologies ... Most likely they want to test their fighter with our engines ... And then, if successful, try to copy !!!

[Mooh]

31 it was copied without any special problems, 41 is not fundamentally different, and it’s easier to go on the beaten track. I would forbid China to sell military hi-tech in principle. An ally is an ally, and teeth have been sharpening on our Far East for a long time.

[Oden280]

Only the resource is two times lower and the reliability is bad.

[Suhow]

similar Old and I read.

[Sabroc]

Yes, they copied it without any problems, that's just surging tortured

[dzau]

It seems that they have a problem with the turbine blades. With processing technology.

[mirag2]

I just wanted to write about it. About the technology for the production of blades.

[Semen Semyonitch]

Learn, do not worry ...

[Photon]

For the post-Soviet time, in the Far East -20% of the population. Is that ... the Chinese are to blame?

[Vadim12]

China is not our ally at all. Just a neighbor. You can’t sell military secrets to them.

[mirag2]

Well, yes, and Venezuela is not a partner ...
China, even if it didn’t want to be our allies, and at least five hundred times it would have been on his mind, he HAS to be our ally, because he has no choice, otherwise the United States will disheve him from the inside, and for which the Americans set up a bunch of new ships ?
-for Silently. the region!

[sergey261180]

Quote: portoc65

The Chinese are interested in everything that can be stolen .. this is not called theft, but intelligence ...

I also think that this is smarter than buying at three-expensive or reinventing the wheel. If we hadn’t been rubbing at one time, we would have colonized us much earlier.

[zennon]

Quote: sergey261180

If we hadn’t been rubbing at one time, we would have colonized us much earlier.

I seem to have missed something. Have we been colonized? What is this expressed in?

[sergey261180]

Quote: zennon

I seem to have missed something. Have we been colonized? What is this expressed in?

Fedorov did not look or what? He says that we have been colonized since 1991, but Putin is successfully fighting.

[zennon]

Quote: sergey261180

Fedorov did not look or what? He says that we have been colonized since 1991, but Putin is successfully fighting.

And who is it?

[sergey261180]

Quote: zennon

And who is it?

Congratulations on your first day on the Internet! Google, there in bulk.

[zennon]

Quote: sergey261180

Congratulations on your first day on the Internet!

With what ... I’ll be looking for some kind of m ... ka? To study what he yanked there? I, you know, are a well-educated, LIVING MAN. I have seen a lot of things and I know a lot. I have always been interested in history, political science, and I don’t see the need to draw anything from such a source. Well, you, our scholar, inform you that the Colony is a dependent territory under the authority of a foreign state (metropolis), without independent political and economic power, governed by a special regime. Which of these , wise guy, suitable for Russia? And who is the metropolis, please?

[sergey261180]

Quote: zennon

.Well, you, our scholar, inform you that the Colony is a dependent territory under the authority of a foreign state (metropolis), without independent political and economic power, governed by a special regime.

Bravo!

And who is the metropolis, please?

USA

[zennon]

Quote: sergey261180

Usa hi

And why did you get this out? Is pressure being put on Russia? Of course. This proves that our country is pursuing an independent policy! There is no need to put pressure on the colony. It is ordered, it will be executed. If you don’t understand this, it’s sad. What to talk about with you ? Here they are obedient:

[sergey261180]

Quote: zennon

There is no need to press on the colony. She is ordered, she performs

Suppose we stopped putting pressure on the colony, we order it, and it sends us to ... Without pressure.

[zennon]

Quote: sergey261180

and she sends us to w ...

In this case, this is not a colony. Once again, the colony does not even discuss! We, too, are pressing. Have you heard about the sanctions on agricultural products? They (above in the picture) conduct a dependent policy. Their economies are suffering, and they are muttering something about "Eurosolidarity." There are very few countries in the world that can pursue an independent policy despite not INTO! I am proud that I live in one of them. Do not repeat the idiotic statements of pompous fools. Respect yourself! Bye.

[Nayhas]

Quote: portoc65

The Chinese are interested in everything that can be stolen .. this is not called theft, but intelligence ...

For example, many people like to "shave", and not only the Chinese are engaged in this ... However, a modern aircraft engine is primarily metallurgy, and if there is no technology for the production of blades, then there is no sense in the fact that it is available ...

[Suhow]

and not only metallurgy. Physics, mathematics, chemistry.

[Suhow]

if you don’t sell engine technology and so on, I think the Russian Federation will not be at a loss. As far as I remember, Chinese friends have problems with engines.

[GSH-18]

Quote: Suhow

Chinese friends have problems with engines.

So they want to solve them by their usual method — copy what happens and what doesn’t work, try to replace it with a similar stolen one from other countries! Combinators are bad.

[GSH-18]

Fuck it !! Sell ​​unprotected export versions of the Su-35S, when they still didn’t bring this cool airplane and didn’t put it in the Air Force! .. I don’t even know what to call it.
Can we immediately give the Chinese friends the production schedule for the T-50? ?? !!

[Zuborez]

Can we immediately give the Chinese friends the production schedule for the T-50? ?? !!
Such things for money?
Hand Job)).
Although Dry is slowly getting better.

[mamont5]

Quote: portoc65

The Chinese are interested in everything that can be stolen .. this is not called theft, but intelligence ...

At one time, Japan also started with this. I remember reading ... They order a new cruiser in England. The British make a project and send drawings for review. The Japanese "get acquainted" with the project and ... abandon it, and after a while they themselves build the same ship.

[Koloradovatnik]

Quote: sergey261180

It would not be bad to arm yourself first.

That's it. And then it goes for export 80% produced the latest weapons from Russia. An ideal example is the T-90. Even the Peruvians ride it, and with us - 900 of 15000 total number of tanks.

[Suhow]

I am not a competent person, but as a means of amplification for the t-80,72,62, t-90 is a little insufficient. But in these realities, tanks are no longer the main thing.

[mirag2]

So much is exported, because the goods produced are few, and it’s IMPORTANT to sell and earn money at this stage.
In order to produce for ourselves, you need to either increase production capacities or refuse to export.
And we are in the SECOND place in the world in the sale of weapons — and having lost part of the market — it is very difficult to restore.

[Giant thought]

Ours now needs to pull the rubber a bit so that the Chinese creep a bit.

[sergey261180]

Quote: Thought Giant

Ours now needs to pull the rubber a bit so that the Chinese creep a bit.

Somehow erotic you commented.

[Stalker]

Even a wooden fence equipped with such an engine "Pugacheva's Cobra" will do it for one or two !!!!

[Basarev]

In general, it would be ideal to still sell engines and Su-35s ... But only after a complete transition to the fifth generation by the name of PAK FA and other PAKs. After all, then those engines, which China is trying on, will immediately become obsolete, which, in general, is at hand.

[Max_Bauder]

do not give the Chinese technology! and to the question why ask your question why?

[Sirs]

If you are sure that the new engine in the Russian Federation will be much better? then you can sell it to China.

[Juborg]

It was immediately clear. China has been hunting for these engines for several years now. Therefore, I think it will be a big mistake to sell them to China. Buy for a penny, and use billions.

[portoc65]

Sense ... manufacturing technology anyway they have nowhere to take .. to have a blade of Domas steel does not mean that you can easily make this blade yourself.

[GSH-18]

Quote: portoc65

Sense ... manufacturing technology anyway they have nowhere to take .. to have a blade of Domas steel does not mean that you can easily make this blade yourself.

This is not entirely true. Having the engine in nature, you can conduct a series of special tests to find out the parameters of the nodes. Next, copy the nodes first. Which ones will not correspond to the parameters of the original, replace them with self-made ones, or else where they are siphoned off. The prefab hodgepodge can also work well. And then it can be declared a "Chinese achievement" Such a half-thief process saves the Chinese a lot of time and money. There is no need to nurture your own engine-building school, just a few "big-headed" "combinatorial engineers" are enough. Such are the things ... But in practice it turns out that we actually give them our know-how .. It remains to be hoped that ours will take appropriate protective measures. It is not the first year that we have been familiar with such behavior of Chinese "friends"!

[Evilcat]

Come on you! For a penny. And use billions. Well, laugh. The buyer will come to the Chinese, and not to Russia on the existing 35 Dryer? I don’t believe it!
Political interests? I don’t believe it! In an extreme case, they will leave through third countries.
But as yet another force opposing the States, this is already something. Soon we should expect a screech of mattress covers.

[Revolver]

Quote: juborg

Buy for a penny, and use billions.

This is not so bad. Now, if you think about who it is most likely to be used against - it’s obviously they’re buying not to drive the Vietnamese or Filipino fishermen from the disputed islands ...
And even if it’s not directly against Russia, but only intercepts potential sales markets, it’s not good either.

[skeket]

Quote: Nagan

This is not so bad. Now, if you think about who it is most likely to be used against - it’s obviously they’re buying not to drive the Vietnamese or Filipino fishermen from the disputed islands ...

I wouldn’t be so thick. China’s weakening of the Russian Federation is geopolitically unacceptable, because it will be left alone against the entire pack, led by the United States. It’s also not necessary to squeeze territories from Russia, all the resources can simply be bought at affordable prices, given the gradual reorientation of Russia to China and possibly India, and the first thing that China will squeeze out, I think, is Taiwan, but before that, oh, how far .

[Nayhas]

Quote: juborg

It was immediately clear. China has been hunting for these engines for several years now.

Yeah, they cross the border by the river and hunt at night ... What kind of rubbish are you writing? Last year, our AL-41F-1C engines separately offered them, without airplanes, so they turned up their muzzles, like we are not interested ... but here they "hunt" ...

[Koloradovatnik]

Well, of course. China in general is not so much interested in Russian weapons as the ability to copy it

[enot73]

Quote: Colorado

Well, of course. China in general is not so much interested in Russian weapons as the ability to copy it

The Chinese have already tried to copy on their own (in a pirated way) the engine from the Su - 30 (AL-31F). It turned out to be two times heavier and with one and a half times less traction.

[Zuborez]

On the Su-27 at EBN, the license was sold with engines.
But what about the Indians (on RD33), that the license does not help the Chinese very much.
Although our specialists are actively involved in both.
They are still 15–20 years old before our present level, which is not the highest relative to the USSR.
There is no school of its own.
And about the competition, many clones of Su27, China sold?

[Evilcat]

And why only Russian? The Chinese have always copied that. that they considered worthy. I wanted to remember the Chinese Mauser under 45 ACP, but quite by chance I came across a product from China North Industries Corporation
I think Mauser is resting.

[enot73]

Quote: EvilCat

I think Mauser is resting.

Well, for sure, this pistol has a caliber and even some rawhide steel. IMHO, he is only good as a souvenir.

[samuil60]

All Chinese is not as bad as people think of it. They learn very quickly, learn from their mistakes and correct them instantly. The fact that they have overtaken our auto industry by three heads in 10 years is a fact. The picture is the same in shipbuilding. It makes no sense to talk about electronics at all - American satellites fly on Chinese microcircuits. And in our country, those who have not personally come across modern Chinese technology, still think that they have everything "on snot". Do not underestimate a potential adversary so!

[Basarev]

This is all very serious, but do not exaggerate. The main thing is that we are still world leaders in armaments. I will not talk about the unique reliability of the AK, but we are the only ones in the world who widely use the Gast scheme in artillery weapons, which can significantly reduce the dimensions and weight of installations in comparison with the Gatling scheme. And in addition does not need an electric motor even as a starter - it works exclusively on its own impact. One such weapon has become legendary. His name is GSh-30K. It stands on the cult Mi-24P helicopter.

[forester]

Quote: samuil60

All Chinese is not as bad as people think of it. They learn very quickly, learn from their mistakes and correct them instantly. The fact that they have overtaken our auto industry by three heads in 10 years is a fact. The picture is the same in shipbuilding. It makes no sense to talk about electronics at all - American satellites fly on Chinese microcircuits. And in our country, those who have not personally come across modern Chinese technology, still think that they have everything "on snot". Do not underestimate a potential adversary so!

I personally came across the handicrafts of the Chinese car industry - rubbish - for six months of work (on a new "shackman") a clone of the German MAN was spent by the owner on spare parts about half a million rubles, he now cannot sell it and I spat resigned - I also got tired of restoration experience and / m hoo (clone Volvo) and I dare to assure you they did not overtake our auto industry - the same rubbish is only more varied And by the way, have you seen the "Chinese" even after a minor accident? - and I saw - this is a coffin on wheels

[basmach]

Selling the latest engine is the biggest idiocy imaginable. In the USSR, if equipment was sold, then in a slightly "truncated" version, and after all, they were not fools.

[sergey32]

Stop the panic. You have to pay for the political support of such a giant. The parties are looking for mutually acceptable compromises.

[basmach]

And where does the panic. Just imagine how much time, effort and money it takes to develop a new engine. Even stupidly copying (albeit not achieving the same parameters and not having full technology), they save all this and gain experience and a good technological groundwork for future developments. One should never consider an adversary more stupid than oneself, beloved. This leads to defeat.

[zennon]

Quote: sergey32

You have to pay for the political support of such a giant.

And what is the support? Do you think that by voting at the UN for our proposals they block us? They defend their positions! And so it will be until our interests coincide. By the way, they also enjoy our support.

[enot73]

Quote: basmach

Selling the latest engine is the biggest idiocy imaginable. In the USSR, if equipment was sold, then in a slightly "truncated" version, and after all, they were not fools.

While the Chinese have to buy ready-made engines, our technology for their production is not sold. "Drying", they really ripped off, but screwed up with the engines, as I wrote above.

[boozer]

I think this is a political game, if you want "flirting". A friendly step, rapprochement. On the other hand, it is a great trust and a joint response to "mattress makers". But with the followers of Mao we must keep our ears open!

[Wiruz]

China needs a lot for this rapprochement: S-400, gas, airplanes. It is time to stop fulfilling someone’s requirements and begin to put forward their own.

[Saburo]

The British at one time passed the Rolls-Royce Nene turbojet engines to the USSR as a gesture of goodwill. I wonder what they then thought about when the Soviet MiGs flying on a copy of this engine shot down Sabers and Meteors in Korea.

[Zuborez]

We managed to squeeze on Lend-Lease. RD200 and RD500 (the original engine is one, the plants are different).

[Iline]

With the world on a thread - a poor shirt.
And everyone writes about the Chinese economic miracle. Only to steal ideas and technologies is much, its not at all.

[dr.star75]

All the Chinese economic miracle is just like 3 cents. It is based on the fact that 200 million (!) Chinese work for a bowl of rice (in the literal sense of the word) and another 200 million (!), Even for less money, and the former manage to give alms (if I may say so) to the latter. What are not slaves, and even self-sufficiency. About such trifles as paid medicine (even ambulance), I do not even speak about the absence of pensions. Where is socialism? It looks like a slave system.

[FREGATENKAPITAN]

So after the war Japan began, then Korea ...... we see the result!

[shitovmg]

Honestly admitted that they need from the 35th. At least for this respect. I think ours is not in vain bargaining, they also want to pull something out of China!

[clidon]

"Something" is support for us in the confrontation with the West. You have to pay for this.

[andrei332809]

copy-paste hu ... bad

[Vitaly Anisimov]

China in its repertoire ... (they copy everything) In principle, we also started from this .. We put a lot of technologies in China (in the old days) I hope they take this into account .. We need to be friends with Russia!

[Wiruz]

China in its repertoire ... (they copy everything) In principle, we also started from this .. We put a lot of technologies in China (in the old days) I hope they take this into account .. We need to be friends with Russia!

China is an ally cunning. He is friends with you today, and tomorrow he will go to war with you. We don’t need these.

[Photon]

So far, China has nothing to blame. The break with him at one time happened due to the fault of Khrushchev

[Balamyt]

Do not chase the momentary benefits!
This usually ends badly! As if after the elbows did not have to bite .....!

[Stanislas]

Quote: Balamyt

Do not chase the momentary benefits!

This, as I understand it, is not an immediate benefit, but the money invested in the development of Russian design bureaus and the production of military aircraft. Or isn’t it?

[Reserve officer]

Well, the fact that they will copy our engine with an accuracy of about 90% is no doubt. True, the basic nuances cannot be copied. The parameters will not be the same, the resource is not the same, but for them it will still be a step forward. They have a national philosophy (this is serious, not a joke) - if you can repeat the creation of a master, then you are a master yourself.
I have long been alarmed by the growing potential dependence of Russia on this country.

[SNB]

I agree with you. Such friendship does not please me either.

[FREGATENKAPITAN]

It was much easier to copy the AK-47, AKM, AK-74 ........................... and yes, .... shoots, just still not like the original, And any specialist will choose Izhevsk assault rifle, not Chinese ... So then!

[andj61]

Quote: Stock Officer

Well, the fact that they will copy our engine with an accuracy of about 90% is no doubt. True, the basic nuances cannot be copied. The parameters will not be the same, the resource is not the same, but for them it will still be a step forward. They have a national philosophy (this is serious, not a joke) - if you can repeat the creation of a master, then you are a master yourself.
I have long been alarmed by the growing potential dependence of Russia on this country.

That is why you should not sell such a meager number of aircraft. It is necessary to sell 80-100 pieces, respectively, for our industry to earn some money, and China will not make much sense to produce EXACTLY SUCH aircraft. It is good that even now they are negotiating at least 24, before they sold a few pieces. I still hope that the Su-35 will be delivered to China in export, i.e. somewhat "dull" version - in my opinion, this is a common practice.

[Starover_Z]

Quote: andj61

We need to sell pieces of 80-100, respectively, for our industry they will earn some money decently, and China will not make much sense to produce EXACTLY SUCH airplanes

I agree to all 100%! And what is this sale formula:

China hopes to purchase 24 Su-35S aircraft at the cost of 5 engines for each machine (two sets plus one reserve)

Is it specially sold for copying ?! Engines seem to be reliable, So what else can there be two standby ?!
After-sales service for aircraft and no spare engines for these copywriters!

[Zuborez]

Engines are transferred to the manufacturer after a certain number of flying hours (current repair).
So that the fuselage is not idle, and you need a second set.
During the war, separately aircraft were considered separately engines.

[Finches]

Pepper is clear! To design and build such a science-intensive thing, this is not to destroy sparrows within the framework of the Great Leap Forward policy! Several years ago, our Chinese intelligence recruited two respected people, they worked for Bulovo, now not very respected people, where it is supposed to cut the forest with a jigsaw, but the fact remains - the increased interest of our Chinese friends in our military developments has not disappeared anywhere!

[raketnik]

comrades forum users-- let's not be pi ... if they decide to sell there one of the three means or we have something new and advanced on the way, believe me there are NOT fools

[nfoma80]

History shows that there through one fools.

[KBR109]

And fools and thieves and returnees. You might think this is the first time.

[Magic archer]

China claims to be a world leader. Mattress surrenders, who do you think will come first!? This year they have already surpassed the US economy in terms of GDP growth. And we are arming the Celestial Empire. On the basis of C-300 we created an analogue. I just planes and tanks I’m silent. And we have a neighbor in the Far East with the largest army and armed with our very best weapons ....

[portoc65]

Have you been to China? I was ... since the Chinese relate to us, they don’t belong to anyone .. they copy a lot in their way of life from the West, but as the country of greatest sympathy for the Chinese .. this is us ...

[vitaz]

some math: if the United States spent $ 5000000000 to find 1 named Makarevich who betrayed Russia. It turns out, purely hypothetically, to buy the whole of Russia you need 5ooooooooo * 150000000 =
750.000.000.000.000.000, but taking into account that Makarevich is the most rotten person of all those living in Russia, we raise this number to the power of 14999999 and we conclude that America will conquer us in so many years in 1.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000. .... In short, even Abamkins ancestors will already become people. No arguing against mathematics, I know from school. I wonder how they have in the State Department with her

[Photon]

You are mistaken. For 5 billion, they didn’t buy Makarevich. For this money bought Ukraine :(

[Wiruz]

And what kind of goblin are they planning to supply them with the Su-35S? Maximum need export Su-35 with engines from the Su-30MKK. How many Chinese do they demand for their friendship with Russia? S-400 will be sold to them, gas will be delivered to them, something joint on airplanes / helicopters is muddied. Not figs to them generally the 35th to deliver. Let them fly on their Js.

[Stypor23]

Quote: Wiruz

And what kind of goblin are they planning to supply them with the Su-35S? Maximum need export Su-35 with engines from the Su-30MKK. How many Chinese do they demand for their friendship with Russia? S-400 will be sold to them, gas will be delivered to them, something joint on airplanes / helicopters is muddied. Not figs to them generally the 35th to deliver. Let them fly on their Js.

True. They pretend to be a Super Power, and rely on cloning.

[Wiruz]

True. They pretend to be a Super Power, and rely on cloning.

I recently tried to find at least one not copied from Russia / USSR sample of the Chinese military-industrial complex - could not find

[Stypor23]

Quote: Wiruz

I recently tried to find at least one sample of the Chinese military-industrial complex that was not copied from Russia / the USSR - I did not find

Well, they have a QBZ-95 automatic. Obviously not licked from us. It should be noted how our lardy neighbor rose in the 90s, after the well-known events.

[Wiruz]

Well, they have a QBZ-95 automatic. Obviously not licked from us.

Thank you, neighing

ZY It is lapped off from the OTs-14 "Thunderstorm"

[Stypor23]

Quote: Wiruz

Thank you, neighing

Alexey, and the funniest thing is you will see S. Govorukhin's film "The Great Criminal Revolution." Only then will you have to run to the storage shed for the bitter one, in order to somehow digest this horror film. Not for the impressionable ......... yes.

It is licked off from the OTs-14 "Thunderstorm"

, from non-workers, but I thought they stole from the Europeans.

[Kasym]

The Chinese with engines have 2 obvious problems: blades and materials (of which this or that part is made).

[Nayhas]

Quote: Stypor23

Well, they have a QBZ-95 automatic. Obviously not licked from us.

Is this also "your own"?

[Stypor23]

Quote: Nayhas

Is this also "your own"?

Wonderful. Classics: "You don't need to steal anything, everything is stolen before us" . It was more appropriate to upload pictures of CHINESE HUMMERS , or how they whine them in their own way Sunhuyvchay. . I remember reading how the Chinese wanted to make their own civilian airliner. It happens, although it’s time for the World to show its own developments, and it’s not solid to somehow rest on the laurels of gunpowder, compass and Jackie Chan.

[Nayhas]

Quote: Stypor23

I remember reading how the Chinese wanted to make their own civilian airliner.

Outdated information. Already done, in 2015. first flight and from 2017 certification and mass production. It is called Comac C919.

Quote: Stypor23

otherwise it’s not solid to rest on the laurels of gunpowder, compass and Jackie Chan

Oh yes, given that Chan is no longer Cake ...

[Stypor23]

Quote: Nayhas

Outdated information. Already done, in 2015. first flight and from 2017 certification and mass production. It is called Comac C919.

An interesting com naryl.

Not entirely Chinese, Avionics on it will be the American Rockwell Collins Pro Line Fjnn, which will also be on the MS-21, and Bombardier CSERIES, and Mitsubishi MRJ, and is already on the B-787. Here is the Rockwell Collins earn. The engines will be American PW Pure Power gearboxes that will also be on the MC-21, Bombardier CSERIES and Mitsubishi MRJ. Although it is strange for Mitsubishi MRJ Sony, Toshiba, Motorola and Panasonic could develop Japanese Avionics no worse than Collins, or maybe better. Well, probably, almost all aircraft systems are imported: hydraulic system-Parker, electric, APU Honeywell, etc. The Chinese is only an airplane glider, a glider as they say, and in Africa glider. And the fact that China is a major economic power, yes, but they only trade, and in terms of scientific and technical potential, high-tech industries, they are nothing, for example, they did not even stand close to South Korea, not to mention Japan. The Japanese and Koreans are the best scientists and engineers, but the Japanese are better and smarter than Koreans. But South Korea does the same good technique. But the Japanese are the best, the smartest. And the fact that Comac will compete with the A-320 and A-320 NEO is ridiculous, more prestigious to have an airplane from Europe than from some China, for example, they buy a German car only because it is German, or Adidas only because it is Adidas. There is such a concept Brand. Airbus is also a NAME, such as Made in Germany items or Consumer Electronics Made in Japan.

[Photon]

So this is good for us. And if Russia somehow manages to revive science, then we will not be "poor relatives" for China

[el.krokodil]

the Ketays are very flattered by themselves- "It is assumed that the AL-41F-1C will become a" backup power plant for the Chinese new generation J-20 fighter, since the afterburner FWS-15, created on the basis of the AL-31FN-1M (it is equipped with the J- 10) reaches only 135 kN, which is not enough for an aircraft of this type "... tanks proved in biathlon, much does not mean good .. less is better. they wanted to buy an engine to copy .. type since we are friends .. only the cunning Russians said flies and cutlets included .. once we are friends buy the goods in a batch or break off ..

[Gorbtk]

there are things that you take at least a thousand pieces, copy and collect a copy, and at the output you get a zilch. So it is with engines - if there is no school of your own, there is no base laid down by previous generations, so at least take a million out and copy anyway, there will be a zilch only in the third degree.

PS: Tea is not the first time ....

[shuhartred]

Quote: Gorbtk

there are things that you take at least a thousand pieces, copy and collect a copy, and at the output you get a zilch.

The Chinese just don't read the instructions completely. And there at the end it says "after assembly, finalize with a file." So they get a steam locomotive instead of an airplane

[Lock]

The Chinese are good copiers. They cannot design the engines themselves, they will try to "screw up" and, as always, they will not succeed until they buy a license with technologies.

[Alex_good]

I’m selling a thousand engines

[nfoma80]

China does not need an airplane; they need an engine. The latest Chinese aircraft have engines from the SU-27, they really need glider engines to make it difficult, but possible, and engine building is decades of research. Dumb copying won't help here. They need technology, they are striving forward and they should not be missed, whatever they were allies, let’s skip and then cry.

[erased]

Strategic, ml, partners! Give them everything. Yars, Poplar, S-500, PAK DA, PAK FA, Armata, Boomerang, Warrior. And ishho the Far East and Siberia. They are partners, their mother is cross-eyed. And gas at a low price, at a loss to yourself (as already done). They are partners! Who are we? Unites! ..

[WIN969]

The Chinese have already copied our engines, but this is not so simple, since the blades are made using secret technology, thanks to which they can withstand huge temperatures for a long time.

[Anchonsha]

Yes, ah, friends, what’s called, they want to stick too ... and so that everything is in place. It’s just the same ... After all, they don’t go for joint development of new devices, everyone also wants to fuck from us, as before. S-300 was ripped off and is now being sold on its own.

[MY THOUGHT]

no need to be an expert to understand this !!!

[APS]

Here it is better to act as a give. They are something interesting to us and we will return something interesting to them, but again, products and not drawings and engines should be made so that it is difficult to repeat. And do not hesitate to copy their things too. And cooperation in all areas is still interesting. Because while we will hide the engine from everyone else, we will lose something else. Moreover, as said above, the analogue will be worse than the original ...

[IOwTZ]

I think the agreement on the Su-35 was already when Putin flew gas to China.

[Vlad5307]

Yes, just additional engines will be put on their 5th generation and conduct further tests, and of course, an attempt to copy the engine!

[AIR ZNAK]

But only if the contract does not provide for EVERYTHING !!! the party will immediately be sold immediately, as always We bought the right part of the order and found fault with something so as not to buy the rest of the order. But we are arming the nuclear power with VERY big ambitions and a predatory look at D.V.

[tundra]

In Anapa there is a boarding house "Zvezdochka", this is the plant that makes engines for Sushki. Good contract with China. They started building new buildings, then bam complaints about the engines, one building was not completed then, then it turned out. And the Chinese are already spanking the engine. Or else Siemens was building a high-speed train with ours, and they almost sold it to the Chinese for nothing, like, don't sell it cheaper anyway, so at least some gesheft. And from ours to the fullest.

[Nikolay74]

The story according to the teacher. In one of the defense plants, in the mid-80s, two high-precision German presses were purchased. One was installed, the other was taken apart, all sizes were tolerated, etc. But in the end, neither a copy nor the original works. So that copying without technology leads to a dead end.

[da Vinci]

With such friends (China), enemies are not needed. Unfortunately, for profit for corporations they do not see a threat to Russia. The deal should be calculated 10 years ahead. But where are these geopolitics, where are the country's patriots? They are not anywhere, even in Karaganda.

[Nayhas]

Stupidity and delirium. In 2012. NPO Saturn presented this aircraft engine at Airshow China 2012 in Zhuhai (Guangdong Province, China). Representatives of NPO Saturn expressed their interest in supplying this aircraft engine to China, but the Chinese were not interested in it. Those. they could back in 2012. buy a batch without an airplane, which would be much cheaper. Therefore, the “expert” statement that:

China is not so much interested in the Su-35S as its engine

sucked from a finger ... certainly not Chinese ...
Here is the photo from the exhibition:

[Bombardier]

Well, that people "in the subject" pulled themselves up - clarified the situation a little. +

[ia-ai00]

... based on 5 engines for each machine (two sets plus one standby ...

Well wow, appetites.
Or maybe vice versa - the body of the aircraft, without an engine, let them put their own, or amerovskie.
I understand that for Russia this is NOT EXTRA money, but China is such a country that a clone of engines will appear immediately.

[zennon]

Quote: ia-ai00

I understand that for Russia this is NOT EXTRA money, but China is such a country that a clone of engines will appear immediately.

I won’t appear. I’m not an expert, but an engineer, a techie. I assure you, it’s not about copying. You can copy the geometry of the blade, but you will never understand WHY it has such a form! It needs a powerful science, a first-class engineering school, an excellent education. And much more. The product needs to be suffered! If you have a copier instead of a culman, then you will never achieve the result! How old is Chinese development? 30? Now try name at least one technical product, any that they created themselves! There isn’t such a thing ... You don’t even recall a single official company. And this is with a country that produces 20% of everything in the world !!! They ABSOLUTELY Depend on foreign technologies. We developed by copying something, but then we did what we did! And then we started copying from us. They are only copies. Who ever tried to copy something from China? It's an ear on clay feet ...

[Mooh]

From fresh -2 ear a sim phone. And so - silk, porcelain, gunpowder, paper ....

[sxn278619]

But the tablet has a 4-core processor with 12 nm technology. Pull and copy - no one does except Intel. So here - FIG copy cheap.

[Rigla]

Selling China engines or the entire SU-35 is nonsense. Even if it is possible to sell 50 units, which is generally unrealistic, the net profit will be (at a price of even $ 100 million for 1 board) LESS than $ 1 billion !!!, I will clarify NOT the revenue, but the net profit. That is, in essence, a penny, but the damage to defense capability, the damage to future exports (and China quickly ripens up clones) are generally invaluable.

[djtyysq]

When my Chinese "friend" tells me that my bike is newer, I tell him that my legs are working faster!

[SIROP73]

China has already copied the S-300, a very distant copy. I think the engine will turn out no better. And so they will buy fully aircraft. Russian profit and friendship.

[Zuborez]

What was the man blamed for ?.
The Chinese C300 didn’t even take the PLA into service.
Now they seem to have steamed (or are trying) to Pakistan.

[MSA]

Let them buy, the main thing is not to the detriment of us.

[DPN]

THE CHINESE FELLOWS QUICKLY LEARNED FROM THE USSR, NOW THEY ALREADY DICTATE THE CONDITIONS OF THE CONTRACTS AND THEY WILL PUSH RUSSIA BY THEIR AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY. THIS MEANS ONE CHINESE PEOPLE CAN CHOOSE WELCOME GOVERNERS OR ONLY PATRIOTS OF THEIR COUNTRY-CHINA WILL COME TO POWER. WHAT DO WE RUSSIANS NEED TO LEARN!

THEY KNOW THAT IT IS NECESSARY FOR THEIR MONEY !!

[Cristall]

a country with a huge labor reserve (+ rare earths)
Workshop of the world .... Printer of the world .. scanner of the world ...
But this World Factory with a pre-planned production plan ...
All Chinese factories belong to someone. By the way in the world there are a lot of Chinese millionaires and billionaires ... They are rapidly crowding out everyone ...
I understand that the US and the world control them so far with markets and sales ... but as far as ..
We need to look beyond the primitive - They need an engine .. they need the original for copies ...
Maybe they need exactly the blade technology - which will be written in a separate line in the contract?
Or in general technology and blades and something else ...
In general, different options are possible ... Ask Why - they won’t answer honestly ... the east is a delicate matter and they can easily lie to Europeans ...

[Photon]

Yo mine! All such experts are Sinologists. One person wrote in the case. Because he was in China and understands something. The rest sing liberal songs of another 90s publication about the terrible insidious Chinese.
For thousands of years, for the eastern people, the path of improvement was directed inward. Europeans, including us, are changing the world around us, inventing technologies. And do not oppose it, we must cooperate. And the Chinese treat Russia very well, probably even better than we deserve. If Russia can get out of the crap we got into in the early 90s, then with China everything will be fine.

[Zuborez]

I won’t appear. I’m not an expert, but an engineer, a techie. I assure you, it’s not about copying. You can copy the geometry of the blade, but you will never understand WHY she has such a form! We need a powerful science, a first-class engineering school, an excellent education. And much more. The product needs to suffer!
I absolutely agree. All our current achievements were laid in the 30s.
And it’s tremendous if for so many years (since 1985), with all the negative events in the country, all this works and is being sold.
But they will buy, they will not buy, so they still have to be manufactured, the technology, the design must be worked out. In a series run, when the Union was given State Prizes for this.
They gave the Chinese the license for RD93 (RD33 for single-engine aircraft),
and where are their engines? With the licensed Su27, not everything is good, about the Chinese C300 it’s better not to remember)).
IMHO, China is learning, and is learning fast.
But there are things that you can’t buy for money, and copy too.
These things, as Comrade Zeno correctly noted, must be suffered.

[v245721]

This is another "good friends" their mother. With friends like China, I would not go to intelligence.

[tolmachiev51]

This is commerce !! The main thing is not to "stand still" ourselves.

[Bator79]

We already have an engine for the 5th generation of aircraft. I don’t see anything wrong to sell to China. China copied our S-300 and what? Beijing’s sky is still protected by our S-300 and they push their own at tenders)))

[qwert]

Soothes only tank biathlon. If the tanks were specially selected for international competitions, they turned out to be of low quality .... For me it was a surprise. But enjoyable.
And I hope we still have a new engine out. Although all the same, it was necessary to su-35 suck in with AL-31.

[Jrvin]

And I'm not afraid for our developments because engines are such a large alloy of technologies that you simply can’t copy a ruler here. And even if you copy everything, the same engine will not work, and even more so such a highly loaded one that requires special materials, and picking up materials is more than one year old.

[dchegrinec]

The cunning people! With them you need to keep an eye out ..