Military Review

Russia is developing a promising high-speed helicopter

54
On August 12, the air forces of Russia celebrated their holiday. On the eve of the holiday, Air Force Commander-in-Chief Colonel-General Viktor Bondarev spoke about the present and future of this type of troops. The commander spoke about the latest achievements of the air force, about updating equipment and other aspects of their work. In addition, he touched on the topic of promising projects. In the interests of the military aviation several new projects of great interest are being developed. Among other things, research work is underway on the topic of promising high-speed helicopters.

Russia is developing a promising high-speed helicopter


Colonel-General Bondarev said that work is currently underway on a new project whose goal is to significantly increase the maximum speed of helicopters. Already have an engine that will allow to carry out this project. The technologies and technical solutions currently being studied in the future will increase the maximum speed of helicopters 1,5-1,8 times. Thus, for promising rotary-winged cars, this parameter can exceed 350-400 km / h, which will provide them with higher flight characteristics in comparison with the existing technology.

The details of these works and the approximate dates for their completion are still unknown. Some features of the new project can be found out from previous statements by Russian officials. So, in February of this year, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin spoke about the development of a promising high-speed helicopter, which is supposed to be used for transport purposes. This machine will be designed to replace the deserved, but obsolete Mi-8. In addition, the possibility of creating a combat modification of the helicopter was not excluded.

The development of new high-speed helicopters is one of the most promising areas in the field of helicopter. Such projects are engaged in all the world's leading manufacturers of such equipment. Russian helicopter builders, who have been studying this topic for the past few years, are no exception. It is known about the existence of three projects of domestic design bureaus, the purpose of which was to study the appearance of helicopters with a high flight speed. These developments are known under the indexes Mi-X1 (MVZ them. ML Mil), Ka-92 and Ka-90 (JSC "Kamov"). Similar projects exist abroad, and some of them were able to reach the prototype testing stage.

In fact, to create a high-speed helicopter, engineers need to solve only one problem, but this solution turns out to be extremely difficult. The fact is that as the speed of horizontal flight increases, the flow around the propeller blades gradually worsens. Upon reaching a certain speed associated with the characteristics of the screw of a particular helicopter, so-called occurs. stall on the retreating propeller blade. This means that the end part of the blade, moving to the tail of the helicopter, develops supersonic speed relative to the air with subsequent disruption of the flow and a sharp drop in lift. Over the past decades, aircraft designers have been trying to influence this process and “delay” the disruption before the helicopter reaches the required speed.

The existence of the Mil project under the designation Mi-X1 became known at the end of 2007. A few months later, the helicopter builders shared some of the details of this development. Within the framework of the project several different measures were proposed at once, aimed at increasing the flight speed, as well as at eliminating the disruption of the flow at the required flight conditions. For this it was proposed to optimize the aerodynamic appearance of the car, to use the so-called. system of local suppression of stall on the retreating blade, as well as use an additional pushing propeller.

An interesting fact is that all modern projects of promising high-speed helicopters involve the use of additional pulling or pushing screws. The main reason for their appearance is the need to unload the rotor and reduce its speed, which allows you to expand a number of modes where no disruptive phenomena are observed. In addition, the pushing / pulling screw in comparison with the bearing has a much greater efficiency in the role of propulsion in the horizontal plane. In certain modes, the main rotor can be used exclusively as a source of lift, and the pushing / pulling is able to perform the functions of the steering compensating reactive torque.

On the available photos of the layout, made in the framework of the Mi-X1 project, the general features of the perspective machine are visible. It should have a streamlined fuselage with a sufficiently large cabin for cargo or passengers. Above the cab, space is provided for the power plant and the main rotor is mounted, the sleeve of which is covered with a radome. The tail plumage is the basis for the pushing screw, enclosed in an annular channel.

According to reports, the Mi-X1 project allowed creating a multi-purpose cargo-and-passenger helicopter with a normal take-off weight of about 10 tons and a maximum up to 11-12 tons. on emergency mode. When using such a power plant, a promising helicopter could take on the 2500-2700 tons of cargo or 3-4 passengers. The estimated cruising speed of the Mi-X20 reached 25 km / h, the maximum - 1 km / h. Practical ceiling - 475 m, range - over 520 km.

At the exhibition HeliRussia 2008 representatives of the cost center for them. M.L. Mile argued that with the timely completion of all the work, tests of an experienced Mi-X1 helicopter could start in 2014-15. However, information on the construction of the prototype of this machine is not available. Probably for some reason the project stopped at the stage of research or design work and has not yet reached the stage of building a prototype.

At the HeliRussia 2009 exhibition, Kamov OJSC presented its version of a high-speed helicopter called Ka-92. In terms of its architecture, this aircraft was largely reminiscent of the Mi-X1, but it was proposed to build it using a number of technical solutions typical of Ka-brand helicopters. The overall layout of the Ka-92 is the same as that of the Mi-X1. The fuselage is given for the placement of goods or passengers, and in its upper part there is a volume for the power plant. In the tail of the car, it was proposed to install a pushing thruster.

Like other Kamov helicopters, the high-speed Ka-92, had to have coaxial rotors with characteristic hub fairings. In the same way, it was suggested that the tail pusher be made. The tail of the Ka-92 was to consist of an arrow-shaped stabilizer and two puck keels at its ends. The screws were to be located on the tail fairing of the fuselage, the annular channel was not provided.

It was reported that two Ka-92 engines could be installed on Ka-2500 helicopters, but the possibility of using the prospective VK-3000 with a power over 3000 hp was not ruled out. A new model helicopter could fly at a cruising speed of about 420-430 km / h, if necessary, developing to 500 km / h. Flight range was set at 1400 m. With a maximum take-off weight of about 16 tons of Ka-92 had to take on board up to 30 passengers.

Like the Mi-X1, the Ka-92 helicopter was demonstrated several times at exhibitions solely in the form of layout and promotional materials. Any information about the further implementation of the project is missing. Probably, the work stopped at one of the early stages of the project, before the start of preparation for the construction of the prototype.

The high-speed helicopters Mi-X1 and Ka-92 even look like a vehicle that can ascend into the sky very soon. Another project of Kamov, Ka-90, led to the appearance of a mock-up of an unusual futuristic look and a few bold ideas. Moreover, some features of this aircraft do not allow to unambiguously classify it as a helicopter. Perhaps the widespread adoption of such a concept (if, of course, it happens) will lead to the emergence of a new term for the designation of such a technique.

The Ka-90 high-speed helicopter should take off with a propeller, like all other cars of this class. In case of horizontal movement at low speeds, the main rotor should be used as a propulsor. With further acceleration of the car is proposed to include a turbojet engine mounted in the rear fuselage. After reaching a certain speed, the relatively wide rotor blades should stop and turn back, taking up a position along the fuselage. Further flight at high speed was proposed to be carried out without the use of a rotor.

According to the information provided, the Ka-90 aircraft at speeds up to 400 km / h should have used the rotor, and in a configuration with folded blades could accelerate to 700-800 km / h. This concept of a promising aircraft, capable of taking off and landing on small platforms and flying at a high cruising speed, is of some interest and also raises some questions.

The main issue is the mechanism for creating a lift on a cruise flight mode with the propeller folded. The lack of clear information on this matter may cast doubt on the whole project. In this context, we should recall the fantastic film “6 Day” (USA-Canada, 2000, dir. R. Spottyswood), which used Whispercraft aircraft with a foldable rotor. Fictional film engineers solved the problem of screw removal and providing the required lift force in an original way: when switching to cruise mode, the wide rotor blades turned to the desired position and turned into a swept wing.

The appearance of promising high-speed helicopters, presented by domestic designers in recent years, allows us to build some assumptions about the future of this direction. Apparently, the new equipment of this class, which is to be built and tested in the foreseeable future, will be created on the basis of the Mi-X1 and Ka-92 projects. The original and interesting Ka-90 is still too bold and difficult to translate into metal and testing. The perspectives of the scheme used in the Mi-X1 and Ka-92 projects can be expressed by the statements of Colonel-General V. Bondarev on the approximate flight speed of the promising technology.

It is possible that shortly the testers will have to fly the Mi-X1 and Ka-92 helicopters. In addition, we can not exclude the possibility of creating new projects based on these developments. With confidence, we can only say that work in this direction is underway and one should already wait for the construction of experienced helicopters capable of accelerating to record speeds.


On the materials of the sites:
http://itar-tass.com/
http://vz.ru/
http://lenta.ru/
http://xliby.ru/
http://paralay.com/
http://alternathistory.org.ua/
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  1. kagorta
    kagorta 18 August 2014 08: 57
    +2
    Prototype X3 is already flying crying
    1. crazyrom
      crazyrom 19 August 2014 06: 01
      +4
      Why is there a photo of a bourgeois helicopter in the article? After all, in the same Google, so many photos have our prototype?
  2. slavik_gross
    slavik_gross 18 August 2014 08: 57
    +1
    We’ll wait, but we should have tomorrow ...
  3. erased
    erased 18 August 2014 09: 21
    +1
    In fact, an increase in speed is at least a twofold. That is, from 500 km / h. And there seemed to be projects at speeds up to 800 km / h. Or have they faded away?
  4. sub307
    sub307 18 August 2014 09: 21
    +5
    Mattress makers have been operating their MV-22 since 2005: Maximum speed: in airplane mode - 565 km / h; in helicopter mode - 185 km / h; Cruising speed - 510 km / h.
    I remember: in the USSR they also worked on this topic: MI-30, for example, "successfully hacked down" in the process of "perestroika".
  5. Nayhas
    Nayhas 18 August 2014 09: 26
    +11
    Russia is developing a promising high-speed helicopter

    And a photo of the Eurocopter X3 ... At least the mock-ups from the shows (our everything!)
    Another project of Kamov OJSC - Ka-90 - led to the appearance of an unusual futuristic layout and several bold ideas.

    For which Kamovtsy always (well, almost always) earned respect, it was for originality and a bold look into the future that their competitors categorically lacked ... Well, the appearance of the S-97, which should take off for the first time on December 1 of this year, confirms the right direction Kamovtsy, which can not but rejoice ...
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 18 August 2014 11: 13
      +1
      Quote: Nayhas
      Well, the appearance of the S-97, which should take off for the first time on December 1 of this year, confirms the right direction chosen by the Kamovtsy, which cannot but rejoice ...

      Yes, Kamovtsev’s work pleases, they try to keep up with the times, Sikorsky is making a very similar car with the Americans, I can’t say who is the first, but they seem to have already taken off the prototype.
      Photo of Sikorsky.
      1. iwind
        iwind 18 August 2014 12: 40
        +4
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        Yes, Kamovtsev’s work pleases, they try to keep up with the times, Sikorsky is making a very similar car with the Americans, I can’t say who is the first, but they seem to have already taken off the prototype.

        The prototype flew, now the first instance is being built, but the big question is who will choose a tiltrotor or such a helicopter as a result.
        By the way, I remember you were interested in the X-47b, I doubt that there will be news about this.
        X-47b received a residence permit on an aircraft carrier (USS Theodore Roosevelt), in the test program interaction with F / A-18, life on the flight deck, hangar. In general, it will check whether it interferes with the routine life of an aircraft carrier. At the same time, they will work out joint launches of F / A-18 and X-47B.
        1. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 18 August 2014 15: 12
          +1
          Quote: iwind
          By the way, I remember you were interested in the X-47b, I doubt that there will be news about this.

          Well, I wasn’t interested in anything, I claimed that there was a statement from the US authorities that the X-47B program was closed and a new tender was announced in which Norton Grumman would also participate with his X-47B developments, at the moment I don’t know what the Americans decided, they somehow don’t reach their hands, they don’t have time at home and the tortoise Internet is at work (in the winter I hope to catch up). Thank you for not forgetting.
          1. iwind
            iwind 18 August 2014 17: 02
            +2
            not at all.
            Project X-47b will most likely develop until 2018. A UCAS tender will be held / produced in parallel with it.
            Now there is a dispute between supporters of UAVs and manned aircraft. Some want to make an UAV which in its capabilities will not be inferior to conventional aircraft, Norton Grumman are convinced that they will cope and make such a UAV. Others want to get reconnaissance and strike UAV, their main arguments are
            1 too high technical risk element. 2. Additional financing will be required. 3. It is somehow scary to create a flying terminator so immediately.
            4 and probably the main thing is that the F / A-XX project will begin soon and then why does the fleet need to create two aircraft with overlapping functionality, and there is no money for two projects.
            Although I am for the UAV, but I agree with the supporters to keep the horses. Still, I still do not believe that an unmanned aircraft can completely replace a multi-functional fighter. Supplement, help, distract, generally take on auxiliary functions, but certainly not replace it. Maybe in 10-15 years ....
  6. Mihail29
    Mihail29 18 August 2014 09: 55
    0
    Well, that's cool, the main thing is that our bureaucrats, as always, do not mess up.
  7. SIROP73
    SIROP73 18 August 2014 09: 58
    0
    I think with proper funding, and our prototypes will soon be built
  8. MolGro
    MolGro 18 August 2014 10: 13
    +6
    Forgot about ka 102 and the layouts of everyone else!
    1. MolGro
      MolGro 18 August 2014 10: 33
      +3
      Here are some cool turntables from Kamov)

    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 18 August 2014 12: 27
      0
      It is not clear how the lifting force will be created in horizontal flight with the Ka-90 blades folded?
      1. FID
        FID 18 August 2014 12: 37
        +3
        Quote: Bayonet
        It is not clear how the lifting force will be created in horizontal flight with the Ka-90 blades folded?

        This is shown as it looks in the option for transportation. In flight - everything is as usual ...
        1. Sergei N 58912062
          Sergei N 58912062 16 October 2023 21: 08
          0
          Quote: SSI
          Quote: Bayonet
          It is not clear how the lifting force will be created in horizontal flight with the Ka-90 blades folded?

          This is shown as it looks in the option for transportation. In flight - everything is as usual ...

      2. Sergei N 58912062
        Sergei N 58912062 16 October 2023 21: 05
        0
        Quote: Bayonet
        It is not clear how the lifting force will be created in horizontal flight with the Ka-90 blades folded?

  9. Baloo
    Baloo 18 August 2014 10: 18
    +3
    I am not a pilot, but maybe I need not speed, but maneuverable, load-lifting and economical, and most importantly able to protect myself from MANPADS and missiles?
    1. Akatsubasa
      Akatsubasa 18 August 2014 10: 39
      +2
      The goals for him are slightly different initially. As far as I can see from the statements so far, it will be either a support vehicle (it may well be a delivery of mobile groups) or a purely civilian one (which is also quite good, as it will reduce the costs of helicopter cargo deliveries quite well. But you need to start thinking about the northern and eastern regions sometime ) And active protection systems can even be hung on the current Mi 8, which increases their survival by about a third. Mobility is needed.

      Plus, as such, the concept of a new generation combat helicopter has not yet been merged, which is both good and bad at the same time. The good point is that this gives a chance to hope for the degree of regulation of information ... And the bad one makes you think that everything is very messy so far and there may not be any project.
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 August 2014 10: 39
      +3
      Speed ​​is also an element of protection. And not only. For example. during the evacuation of the wounded, it is a matter of life and death. Or during helicopter landings: the enemy will by all means strive to close the created corridor, transferring air defense systems from other sectors.
      1. saag
        saag 18 August 2014 11: 17
        0
        Quote: Spade
        Speed ​​is also an element of protection.

        From what? In the Donbass, this speed did not save anyone.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 18 August 2014 14: 55
          +1
          First of all, from anti-aircraft machine guns. They can’t hit the modern high-speed target, and it’s impossible to establish a proactive missile defense system for each radar control system and advanced SLA, which does not introduce a lead. And MANPADS for high-speed flying at very small targets are not particularly applicable.
    3. Nayhas
      Nayhas 18 August 2014 11: 09
      +1
      Quote: Balu
      and most importantly able to protect themselves from MANPADS and missiles?

      So how? Armor five tons to hang? There are no countermeasures against modern MANPADS, Ukraine, Syria are a vivid example of this. Therefore, the only true defense against MANPADS is to fly above the affected area.
      1. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 18 August 2014 15: 26
        +2
        Quote: Nayhas
        So how?

        The onboard defense complex (BKO) "Talisman" LLC "Defense Initiatives" (Minsk) is a means of electronic warfare (EW) and is designed for individual protection of combat aircraft from air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles.
        The principle of operation of the BCO "Talisman" is based on the re-emission (relay) of the probe signals of the enemy radar with the endowment with their special phase, frequency, amplitude and polarization modulation.
        Modulated re-emission leads to distortion of the wave front, perceived by the enemy radar antenna systems (homing head), which affects the angular, range and high-speed (Doppler) meters and tracking systems of the enemy radar. BKO "Talisman" acts on the main element of all modern radars - monopulse direction finder and disrupts its operation.

        BKO "Talisman" acts on the radio fuse of an aircraft (anti-aircraft) missile causing it to fire prematurely (detonating an attacking rocket at a safe distance from the protected aircraft).
        Aircraft protection against missiles with optical (thermal) homing heads, such as R-73, 9M37 Strela-10, AIM-9 Sidewinder, AIM-132 ASRAAM, is provided with a barrier radar. The barrier radar detects an attacking missile, determines its coordinates (bearing and range) and issues a command to shoot false thermal targets (LTC).

        Well, somewhere like that.
        1. Nayhas
          Nayhas 18 August 2014 19: 23
          +2
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          The onboard defense complex (BKO) "Talisman" LLC "Defense Initiatives" (Minsk) is a means of electronic warfare (EW) and is designed for individual protection of combat aircraft from air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles.

          This electronic warfare system is designed to jam radar radars and missile radio fuses. MANPADS missiles use guidance on the thermal / UV radiation of an air target, and modern MANPADS plus on the visible image of an air target. There is no sense in the "Talisman" in this case, because a rocket with a TGSN is a side interference, moreover, radio fuses are already the last century, because optical laser fuses are used which are indifferent to electromagnetic interference. for example like this:

          It’s on the R-73 rocket, on the MANPADS it’s true contact fuses, but still they are not afraid of interference ...
          1. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 18 August 2014 22: 01
            +1
            Quote: Nayhas
            It’s on the R-73 rocket, on the MANPADS it’s true contact fuses, but still they are not afraid of interference ...

            You apparently did not finish reading.
            Aircraft protection against missiles with optical (thermal) homing heads, such as R-73, 9M37 Strela-10, AIM-9 Sidewinder, AIM-132 ASRAAM, is provided with a barrier radar. The barrier radar detects an attacking missile, determines its coordinates (bearing and range) and issues a command to shoot false thermal targets (LTC).
            Still better than nothing. I guess the next step will be the development of aviation KAZ.
            1. Nayhas
              Nayhas 19 August 2014 05: 32
              0
              Quote: saturn.mmm
              The barrier radar detects an attacking missile, determines its coordinates (bearing and range) and issues a command to shoot false thermal targets (LTC).

              LTC has long been of no value. Rather, from missiles with the latest generation TGSN. Yes, and they did little help from Stinger, he did not care about the LTC. Modern TGSN work in three! ranges on which it is impossible to put interference at the same time ...
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 19 August 2014 17: 04
        +1
        We now have such a system against MANPADS. "Sky Shield"
        called. They plan to equip it with civilian liners.
        But ICAO resists: it’s kind of a weapon, albeit a defensive one.
        But for large transport helicopters and planes will go, I think.
        if they give a budget.
        For an attack aircraft or a combat helicopter, the system is heavy in weight.
  10. DesToeR
    DesToeR 18 August 2014 10: 47
    0
    Quote: MolGro
    Forgot about ka 102 and the layouts of everyone else!

    I liked the Ka-92. It would be nice to preserve the possibility of transporting a vehicle the size and weight of a "Tiger" in the cargo hold - I think the special forces would come in handy. If I am not mistaken, the cargo compartment, replaced by these Mi-8 machines, can accommodate an UAZ SUV.
    1. MolGro
      MolGro 18 August 2014 13: 11
      +3
      Well, it is created as a freight transport, but at the expense of xs machines it can and will be!
      So far, these are all concepts and prototypes!
      The only thing already approved is ka 62 and mi 38.
      Here is the third mi 38


      Here is the first prototype flying ka 62!
    2. MolGro
      MolGro 18 August 2014 13: 23
      +3
      Well, here I came across a miracle of things))

      Reconnaissance complex with guided missiles 1K133 "Tipchak" with UAV-07


      Reconnaissance complex with guided missiles 1K133 "Tipchak" with UAV-05


      Multifunctional UAV (UAV) A-03 with a carrying capacity of 500 kg range up to 10 - 13 thousand kilometers.
      Take a close look at what it looks like the most)

      1. shuhartred
        shuhartred 18 August 2014 14: 40
        0
        Quote: MolGro
        Take a close look at what it looks like the most)

        Most of all it looks like a torpedo ..... Guessed? smile
        1. MolGro
          MolGro 18 August 2014 15: 05
          +1
          on a cruise missile))
          although 500 gk of TNT no matter how they call him))
  11. saag
    saag 18 August 2014 11: 16
    0
    Is this regional aviation such a replacement for the L-410?
  12. bmv04636
    bmv04636 18 August 2014 11: 24
    0
    The Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Air Force said that they had not forgotten about the Berkut SU-47 project and were continuing work on the wing with reverse sweep.
    1. FID
      FID 18 August 2014 12: 40
      +2
      Quote: bmv04636
      The Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Air Force said that they had not forgotten about the Berkut SU-47 project and were continuing work on the wing with reverse sweep.

      Bondarev said a lot of things: about PAK YES, and about PAK DP, and about a promising helicopter ...
  13. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 18 August 2014 12: 48
    -1
    look in this direction you need 100 years ahead. You need to update existing models, but at the expense of new ones ... weigh a hundred times and not waste energy on transition models. Create something else. Not necessarily a rotorcraft.
  14. TVM - 75
    TVM - 75 18 August 2014 12: 58
    +1
    Revolutionary decisions do not appear as often as we would like. Progress is driven by monotonous and painstaking work - improvement. Only in this case revolutionary ideas are possible.
  15. Wolka
    Wolka 18 August 2014 13: 15
    0
    well, very interesting good
  16. Free wind
    Free wind 18 August 2014 14: 49
    +1
    Generally I can’t understand. There is a concept today. a military secret. in Russia or not. Previously for an accidentally flown out word. the working period could be soldered. And even engineers were put against the wall for the disclosure of state secrets. Now, these chauffeurs are blabbering everything. But Rogozin-chalet, probably ahead of the rest of Russia, is talking about everything. Verily. The talker is a find for the spy.
  17. IAlex
    IAlex 18 August 2014 15: 28
    0
    Again, taxpayers hang noodles on their ears, the Ka-92 and Mi-X1 are projects of gyroplanes before the helicopter era, the Ka-90 is a really cool project, but the same Yak-141 will be clearly more profitable in terms of speed, lift and width of the landing pad , if only used for military purposes, and if used for civilians, he will not be able to compete with the Bell V-22 Osprey, in terms of load and volume, only in speed.
    1. FID
      FID 18 August 2014 15: 49
      +1
      Quote: IAlex
      , but the same Yak-141 will be clearly more profitable both in speed, and in lift, and in the width of the landing site, if it is only used for military purposes, and if it is used for civilians, it will not be able to compete with the Bell V-22 Osprey, for cargo and volume, only in speed.

      I apologize, but somehow the problem turns out: the Yak-141 is a jet VTOL, and the Osprey is a convertiplane. Neither one nor the other can be compared with HELICOPTERS!
  18. Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 18 August 2014 16: 57
    +1
    Upon reaching a certain speed associated with the characteristics of the propeller of a particular helicopter, the so-called stall on the retreating rotor blade. This means that the end part of the blade moving towards the tail of the helicopter develops supersonic speed relative to air with subsequent stall and a sharp drop in lift. Over the past decades, aircraft designers have been trying to influence this process and “delay” the stall until the helicopter reaches the required speed.

    There’s some kind of confusion. The retreating blade has the lowest velocity relative to the flow. The supersonic speed of the first should develop the advancing blade. And why should this lead to a stall? Is not a large angle of attack leading to a breakdown? I am not aware of the dependence of the limiting angle of attack on speed. But the lower the speed, the larger the angle of attack must be in order to maintain lift until a stall occurs. That is, a flow stall - this should be a problem for the retreating blade, but then the supersonic speed has nothing to do with it.
    1. FID
      FID 18 August 2014 17: 20
      +3
      Quote: Falcon5555
      There’s some kind of confusion.

      The confusion is there. It is understood that supersonic reaches the END (farthest from the sleeve) of the blade. This is from physics - the linear velocity is equal to the product of the angular velocity by the radius of rotation - in this case, by the length of the blade. And at certain angular velocity and length of the blade - at the end of the blade a supersonic sound is reached. The British are struggling with this, creating a complex profile of the blade. I think something like this ....
      1. Falcon5555
        Falcon5555 18 August 2014 19: 04
        +2
        About the end - this is understandable. Questions were about something else.
  19. air wolf
    air wolf 18 August 2014 17: 57
    0
    And to hell? The helicopter is famous for the fact that it can hang for a long time. And superfluous engines are a load, an excessive consumption of fuel, excess resistance. Those 300-350 km / h that are developed by modern helicopters from my experience are more than enough. Personally piloted the Mi-8T, Ka-26, Ka-27PL, and so the Ka-27 can hang on the spot for up to 4 hours to carry out the combat mission of finding and destroying enemy submarines.
    1. leon1204id
      leon1204id 18 August 2014 20: 18
      +1
      To the point. And to hell ?. And these delights will end like Yak 141. It seems that work on VTOL is more promising. Well, here you just need to check all the possibilities, describe all the curves and modes .......
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 18 August 2014 21: 37
      0
      Such helicopters can hang indefinitely.
  20. ViRUS-007
    ViRUS-007 18 August 2014 23: 23
    +2
    Layouts and "sketches" are certainly good, but when will we build something? It's time to adopt it, and already yesterday ...
    Ka -92 and Mi-X1 look interesting, I hope something sensible of these embossments will work.

    Dreams Dreams....
    For me, the type of "helicopter" from the movie Avatar will also be interesting, you can integrate the propellers inside the wings for takeoff and landing, with the ability to close the "hole", here you have a "full" wing on top, and also add small wings in the front from the bottom for stabilization ( like the Ka-62). At the back, add a turbine (2) or a "motor" like the Ka-92 for acceleration ...
    1. Oblozelo
      Oblozelo 19 August 2014 22: 42
      0
      it is necessary to finalize the transformation of the side "hoops", add traction motors and armament fenders and not forget about aerodynamics.
      And so one hundred pounds! good
  21. gridasov
    gridasov 19 August 2014 00: 08
    0
    It's just called. tiltrotor, which the Americans are already producing in series. For amateurs, I will explain that the essence of the operation of propellers or propellers that are installed on various types of aircraft do not change the principles of organizing hydro-gas-dynamic flow. Therefore, flight efficiency is not fundamentally improved. A breakthrough in the quality of flight will be only after the creation of completely new algorithms for the movement of air flows by an engine. Therefore, if it is a dream, then it is rather an illusion.
    1. ViRUS-007
      ViRUS-007 19 August 2014 00: 50
      0
      If you were trying to explain something to me, then I ask you to read my message again with high quality. The blades are "hidden" in the wing with the subsequent possibility of forming a "full-fledged" wing (having battened down the "hole" with flaps), that is, like in airplanes ..... But it was rather a game of possible options ...
      Well, and the fact that this is a so-called "tiltrotor", then yes, there are certain similarities. Now for the "amateurs" this is not the same "tiltrotor" as in the pin.dos (more an airplane is a helicopter) ...
      Please note there are "small" differences, for example, in the "shape" of the wing, as well as others, but the fact that the laws of physics and aerodynamics have not been canceled is a no brainer ....
      And everything that flies will look about the same, if you do not "deceive" physics, aerodynamics, and to some extent materials science (strength of materials)
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 19 August 2014 01: 09
        0
        No ! No! Nothing personal. You are right that everything that will fly at those speeds and with those tactical and technical parameters at which they fly now, nothing new will happen. All small advantages will not give real advantages and dominance in aerial confrontation and breakthrough in real progress. You see, but before mankind begins to use the technology of controlling surface polarization to obtain both the driving force itself and to change the direction of flight and to protect the pilot with a polarization "shield", he will have to create a device and method that will allow obtaining an excess of e-mail. magnetic potential. Therefore, at least a little bit, you still need to move towards breakthrough technologies, and not tread on "outdated" scientific postulates. Everything that is now positioned in the information space is the past that has not yet arrived.
  22. CB activist
    CB activist 19 August 2014 21: 53
    +1
    Remember Kipling's? "We will give our answer to any of your questions ..."

    So, to any attempts of helicopter pilots to reach speeds of the order of 500 km / h (through the development, in fact, not of a helicopter, but of a tiltrotor - a hybrid of an airplane and a helicopter), the "airplanes" will give their answer by developing a machine with the same, only aircraft with flight characteristics, but ten times cheaper. Think, for one tiltrotor you can build a squadron of attack aircraft. Ensuring the survivability of a tiltrotor in case of combat damage is a gigantic task, and on an attack aircraft it has long been solved. On an airplane, it is easier to solve the problem of protecting the upper / rear hemisphere.

    Conclusion - in battle, a "high-speed" tiltrotor attack aircraft does not have ANY advantages over an attack aircraft, this applies both to work on ground targets and defensive air battles with tactical aircraft, one should not forget about air battles between attack aircraft in the lower altitude range up to 1000m. The speed, which looks like a modern achievement for a tiltrotor, was mastered by an airplane 70 (!!!) years ago. And lastly, one tiltrotor will cost as much as ten attack aircraft (i.e. the same conventional aircraft plant can produce either 1 tiltrotor or 10 aircraft within a specified period of time and with established labor costs), which means that one tiltrotor must be compared in terms of combat effectiveness, not with one, but with ten aircraft.

    In addition, an attack aircraft can be included in the structure of the Ground Forces and operated in them along with tanks and military air defense systems. And the convertiplanes will be given to the Air Force due to the complexity of operation. Army aviation will again be damaged. As for off-aerodrome basing, this is the advantage of a tiltrotor for the second time compared to other parameters in which it loses. For an attack aircraft, this issue is also partially addressed by some well-known palliative measures.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 19 August 2014 23: 35
      0
      In short: You wrote - an airplane is more useful than a helicopter. smile
      A tiltrotor is a high-speed helicopter. With all the advantages and disadvantages
      helicopter.
  23. CB activist
    CB activist 20 August 2014 00: 32
    0
    I wrote that a high-speed combat helicopter (combat tiltrotor) has NO military advantages over an attack aircraft, which has similar tactical and technical characteristics, but costs an order of magnitude more expensive than an airplane. The question is, why is it needed then? Once again, carefully: the whole pathos of the idea is to bring the tactical and technical characteristics of a combat helicopter to the level of the IL-10 attack aircraft, released 70 years ago. This is a madhouse.

    The question is, is it not better to simply remove the technical documentation for the IL-10 from the shelves, translate it into electronic form and release the IL-10 in quantities an order of magnitude greater than the number of high-speed combat helicopters?
    1. KG_patriot_last
      KG_patriot_last 20 August 2014 02: 00
      +1
      a tiltrotor can be based on a ship and deliver troops.

      correctly written above - the helicopter has its own niche, the plane has its own - high-speed helicopter is a step forward compared to simple
  24. Forest
    Forest 21 August 2014 20: 25
    +1
    The pushing screw was from the ancestor of the An-1 Cobra. Very well recommended, only hell knows what they forgot about this car.
  25. Sergei N 58912062
    Sergei N 58912062 16 October 2023 20: 51
    0
    Mi-X1

    Ka-90

    Ka-92

    ____________________________________________
  26. Nickelium
    Nickelium 18 October 2023 17: 48
    0
    Some kind of fantasy for cutting money.