“Just clowns in our market”

155
“Just clowns in our market”The government behind the scenes is thinking how, if necessary, to apply sanctions to the Western auto industry. Newspaper VIEW together with experts presents several possible options. As you can hit the automotive industry in the West and whether the native domestic automakers will benefit from this, the LOOK newspaper understood.

Following the ban on food imports from a number of Western countries, the government said it was considering the “neat” sanctions in the industry, in particular in the aircraft industry, the automotive industry and other industries. Earlier, the newspaper VZGLYAD already tried to simulate the economic war of Russia and the West in the region aviation. Now, together with experts, he presents a model of possible sanctions in the automotive sector.

If for aviation, possible sanctions were called sources in the government and Medvedev himself, then what particular sanctions in the auto industry are reflected in the Kremlin are not given.

The first version of the sanctions

It is logical to assume that, speaking of the sanctions in the automotive industry, we can talk about a ban on the import of cars, the import of automotive components and the work of foreign car factories in the Russian Federation.

However, the dealers, fearing that the Kremlin could really follow this path and prohibit the import of foreign cars, suggested an alternative option for businesses that are less sensitive. It is necessary to prohibit government purchases of foreign cars from the United States, the European Union and Japan, not only imported, but also assembled in foreign factories in Russia.

Exactly the same proposal made by the Communists. After buying these cars, Russia thus supports the economy of countries that have imposed sanctions on Russia, the author of the amendments to the bill on the supply of goods for state needs, the deputy from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation Vadim Solovyev, explains the logic. In addition, it will help support its own auto industry and become economically independent, he said.

By the way, imported foreign cars for state forces have already been banned in July, and experts suggest essentially extending the ban to foreign cars localized in Russia. Such sanctions can really inflict a point strike, especially on German marks, which officials love. Thus, the share of corporate purchases in total sales of Mercedes, BMW and Audi is as much as 35%, in Japanese Toyota - 18% of the brand’s sales in 2013.

However, it seems doubtful that the officials will change from Mercedes and Toyot to Lada. It is more likely that Korean automakers will not benefit from such a ban. The choice will, however, still Chinese cars, for example, the Great Wall or Chery. It cannot be ruled out that in the light of the lurch from the West to the East, the Chinese auto industry may quite seriously settle in Russia (until now it was not much complained about here in an attempt to protect AvtoVAZ, GAZ and KAMAZ). But while Chinese cars are still in the same category with domestic ones, so if you choose two of them, then “your own” should be closer.

Of the world's automakers to choose from, the officials will only have Hyundai and Kia, who in the end will be able to significantly increase corporate sales. And the Koreans are now in retail business and are going up the hill. If Ford is reducing production at its plant in Vsevolozhsk, then Hyundai, on the contrary, wants to increase the machine assembly volume near St. Petersburg to 300 thousand cars this year. At least, the concern has already asked Smolny to expand the territory of the industrial zone under new capacities, the authorities of St. Petersburg claim.

Yes, and sales of Koreans on the background of a falling market is surprising. In July, as the Korean Automotive Research Institute says, Hyundai and Kia even sold more cars in Russia than AvtoVAZ. Koreans accounted for 16,5% of total sales, while AvtoVAZ accounted for 15,5%. Research institutes do not exclude that Koreans can outrun domestic producers in terms of sales for the whole year, and second place, they say, is in their pockets. And it's not even the fact that Russians like the budget Hyundai Solaris, but the fact that sales of Lada continue to fall.

The second option sanctions

By analogy with the ban on food imports, the Kremlin may ban the import of not all foreign cars, but only from the USA, EU and Japan, which imposed sanctions against the Russian Federation. By and large, it will be a ban on the import of almost all foreign cars, because it is these two countries and the union that are home to the majority of the world's automakers. The form can be any - from increase to prohibitive levels of duties to a simple ban.

However, in the automotive industry a slightly different approach can be applied, market participants do not exclude. This suggests sanctions against automakers that have invested little in the Russian market.
“I think a series decision can be made, if the auto company has contracts with the Russian Federation, if it has invested, it has factories here, which gives the right to consider it essentially a domestic manufacturer, then we will not touch these. If the auto company only imports cars, then sanctions can be imposed against it (on the part of Russia), ”believes Oleg Datskiv, director general of the AvtoDiler.ru project. In this case, the sanctions will hit primarily on American, not European automakers, he said.

“Such logic suggests sanctions against American companies. They have moderately invested and are present in our market. GM had more investment talk than business. They told about billions in investments, the construction of factories, but not all of this in practice, everything is so in words and left. And Ford made its investments back in the 1998 year, and its plant has already beaten off those investments many times, and the company does not go on, ”Datskiv notes.

GM, however, has a plant near St. Petersburg, however, and so a small production of Chevrolet Cruze and Opel Astra models is falling there, not expanding, its share is steadily decreasing. The situation is similar at the Ford plant.

“Chrysler with Jeep, Dodge and now Fiat are just clowns in our market. We will not lose anything, and they will not suffer much from the fact that sanctions will be imposed on them, ”the expert adds. "So it will be possible to bring the political hype, and globally at the same time nothing will change," the source of the newspaper LOOK explains the logic.

This will indeed be a relatively neat warning. General Motors will lose the market in 170 thousand cars (sold so much last year), Ford - in 100 thousand cars. And Chrysler sold in Russia in general only 5600 of imported cars of the Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep brands, and 98% of the cars sold accounted for the latest brand.

For American concerns, world sales of which number in the millions, this will be a blow, but clearly not fatal. For GM, Ford and Chrysler own home market is much more global. However, overproduction and overstocking, as well as rising unemployment will be provided for them. The global auto industry has not yet recovered from the crisis, so it will not be so easy to find a new market to replace the Russian one.

“GM is not represented by American brands at all in Russia. Chevrolet and Cadillac, which they have in the states, we practically do not sell. We have Korean Chevrolet and German Opel, ”Datskiv notes.

The situation with European companies is more complicated, because almost all of them have opened their car factories in Russia, collecting the most popular and popular models of cars for them. “For example, German Volkswagen has already invested about 1,5 billion euros in the Russian economy and continues to do so. The Concern and the Olympics sponsored, and the Russian national football team supports it, ”reminds Datskiv. Therefore, it is more logical to strike at American companies that have not done anything particularly outstanding for our market.

However, the mood at any time may change. If the same Germany will force the EU as a whole to some kind of tough measures in relation to the Russian Federation, then nobody will stand on ceremony with European foreign cars, as well as with American ones.

The ban on the import of foreign cars on Europeans will hit much harder. The EU car market has not been growing for a long time, and the auto business is developing only thanks to export and foreign markets. For European carmakers, the Russian market is much more important than for the US. “And the crisis did not end there, some countries are still in the red, others are in the black but small. This is for them the loss of jobs, income and taxes, ”the expert reminds. The first retaliatory sanctions of Russia on foodstuffs have already undermined the European economies, the sanctions on the import of foreign cars will add to their problems.

Losses for all can amount to tens of billions of dollars. So, in 2013, cars were imported to Russia (including Korean and Chinese, which are unlikely to fall under sanctions) for 28,5 billion dollars (estimated by PwC).

For Russia, the losses will be relatively small. They are affected only wealthy above average Russians. “Only those cars that are sold in small quantities are imported now, so it’s not profitable to assemble them here. This is not a mass segment, mainly premium and luxury foreign cars, ”said Sergey Udalov, executive director of AA Avtostat. Budgetary foreign cars that are produced domestically will not be affected in this case. Therefore, the majority will be on what to drive and what to buy, although sales may be reduced. At the same time, the market is now falling quite seriously without sanctions.
Russian car dealers will lose even more revenue. “Since the lion’s share of car dealerships is selling and servicing imported cars, not only sales but also maintenance will decrease, all service and repair areas will suffer, and, of course, the number of personnel employed in this area will decrease the level of wages, ”Anton Kovalev, a member of the Presidium of the Association of Young Entrepreneurs of Russia, tells the newspaper VIEW.

The business of banks and insurance companies, for which the automotive market is a gold mine, will also shrink. The state will lose revenues from customs duties and VAT on the sale of cars, Kovalev said.

At the same time, domestic producers can receive nothing on these sanctions. “AvtoVAZ will not necessarily win. Even most likely, not him. Win Hyundai and Kia, which are unlikely to fall under the sanctions. Especially since they invested 500 million in the plant near St. Petersburg with Kia. They have the largest budgets for promotion and activity, ”says Oleg Datskiv.

The third option sanctions

The worst sanction in terms of consequences is the ban on the import of components and spare parts. And for both sides - Russia and the EU in particular. Therefore, it is even difficult to guess which of them will be the first to follow this path. Such a ban can be introduced both by Europe in response, for example, to restricting imported cars, and by the Russian Federation, having decided that the time for accurate sanctions has already passed.

“If they impose restrictions on the import of components, then many foreign concerns that have come to Russia simply cannot produce cars. Because their localization level is still insufficient, ”says Sergey Udalov.

Under industrial assembly agreements signed with the Ministry of Industry and Trade, foreign automakers should bring the localization level to 60% only by 2018 – 2020 years, including localize engines and gearboxes. Now foreign cars, though, are assembled in Russia, but more than half from imported components.

“Only one AvtoVAZ will work, but also not fully, because there are already a lot of imported components in the Renault-Nissan-AvtoVAZ alliance. AvtoVAZ unifies its components with the French and the Japanese, so something is localized here, and something is imported, ”says Sergey Udalov. Even if the share of imported components at AvtoVAZ is all 3 – 5%, production may still stop, he adds.

So, according to Avtostat’s data on 2013, Kaliningrad’s Avtotor and St. Petersburg’s GM have a localization level of only 15%, and a Nissan plant has 31,7%. At the Russian Ford plant, the Focus model is built on 70% from imported components, Mondeo - on 90%. Only VW and Hyundai have succeeded in this business from foreigners. They collect cars half of the imported parts, half - from the Russian.

Even GM-AvtoVAZ will have fewer problems with the ban on imported components than AvtoVAZ itself. Because Lada Largus, for example, only on 62% is a Russian car. Lada Granta is also on 15 – 20% consists of imported components (according to the data of the plant at 2011 year). GM AvtoVAZ is probably the only plant where the level of localization tends to be almost 100%.

AvtoVAZ, where Renault-Nissan is now the main shareholder, links its future with the fact that it will continue to use components that are common with the French and the Japanese in their new models. So, in 2016, AvtoVAZ intends to begin production of XRAY and XRAY Cross cars. Both of these cars are developed on the Renault platform, only the design will actually remain from the Lada. And this the head of AvtoVAZ said this week.

If Western car plants in Russia stop due to sanctions, the car market will lose more than 1 million Russian-made foreign cars by almost 36 billion dollars (sales data for 2013 a year).

Following will be put an end to the development in the country of its own market of automotive components. Unfortunately, even now it cannot be said that manufacturers of auto parts, engines, etc. hurry to gain a foothold in Russia. And this additional investments, new factories, jobs and taxes. However, some succeed, for example, VW actively lures its auto component partners in the Russian Federation.

“Here we have trouble. There is no base, it was not built. And the Westerners, though hard, but went. The Ministry of Industry and Trade and Alexei Rakhmanov (Deputy Minister) in recent years have stimulated the creation of enterprises that produce components. If this market, which has not yet been formed, now strikes, stops this procession, then it will be possible to forget about this market forever, ”Datskiv believes.

“Destroying what has been created in 20 years will be easy. Investors, not only Western, but also domestic, will not work at a loss and leave the market. Millions of people will lose their jobs. The state will receive less in the form of taxes and deductions. According to our calculations, the approximate annual turnover of the automotive industry is more than 100 billion dollars. This is a serious blow for the entire automotive industry, ”says Andrei Petrenko, president of the Russian Automobile Dealers Association, to the VZGLYAD newspaper.

However, Russia has the opportunity to make the consequences of such sanctions less significant. “In fact, a lot can be imported through China, which is Russia's friend. In China, there are almost all production, including Western auto companies. It may just change the logistics of delivery of components to Russia. It can be the transportation of all the same components and spare parts as now, only with a hook. Yes, maybe the cars from the West will start coming to us through China, ”Oleg Datskiv finds a loophole for the market.

“In terms of components for popular models, I think China will be able to provide replacement, and quite quickly,” agrees Anton Kovalev. “Spare parts for the Porsche Cayenne are unlikely to be produced immediately, but I think it’s easy for the Toyota Corolla or the Ford Focus.”

Experts in general doubt that the sanctions war in the automotive sector will be able to play at least somehow into the hands of the age-old Russian automakers - AvtoVAZ, KAMAZ or GAZ. “The same KAMAZ is struggling so that special equipment or heavy trucks are not imported into China from China. Because it immediately stops the sale of its products. The Chinese are competitors for Lad too. When AvtoVAZ had cars for 150-200 thousand rubles, they went well, and as soon as everything went up in price, the quality and the model range changed, and there were problems with sales. They do not pick up one and a half times the volumes they were counting on, ”says Datskiv.

Even if for some time only AvtoVAZ can produce cars, this does not necessarily help him raise sales of the LAD. “I don’t think that those who drive foreign cars now will immediately rush to change them to Russian Lada. They ride a year on their foreign cars. The term of ownership and operation of a car will simply increase, ”says Sergei Udalov. So, if in recent years owners of premium-segment cars changed their cars every 3 – 4 of the year, now they will do it a year later. The same tendency will be characteristic of GAZ with KAMAZ.

Help domestic plants can, if you raise the salaries of state employees, suggests Datskiv. “If money starts to flow into the military-industrial complex, for example, then theoretically people working in it can come to the salon for Lada,” he says.

Moreover, even AvtoVAZ can no longer be called completely domestic, at least because foreigners have control. “At the same production sites in Tolyatti, cars of foreign brands are assembled, factories are equipped with imported equipment, and the majority of the components are imported,” says Andrei Petrenko from ROAD.

To deprive Russians of foreign cars, even Russian-made, is a politically dangerous idea. Motorists, as practice shows, are the most active citizens who love to protest. And although AvtoVAZ is still the best-selling car brand in Russia, it has long been no master in this market. Foreign cars as a whole have long been prevalent, while Lada has a market share of all 15 – 16%.
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155 comments
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  1. +13
    16 August 2014 14: 50
    Sanctions have always been shortsighted weapons, it’s easy for politicians to smack the fever, and ordinary citizens will have to rake the devastation ...
    1. +15
      16 August 2014 15: 04
      Even if only one AvtoVAZ can produce cars for some time, this does not necessarily help him raise sales of LAD. “I don’t think that those who drive foreign cars now will immediately rush to change them to the domestic Lada. They will ride their foreign cars for another year. The term of possession and operation of the car will simply increase, ”said Sergey Udalov. So, if in recent years, owners of cars in the premium segment changed their cars every 3-4 years

      Yes, there is not only China an assistant to us ... Korea is already rubbing his hands ...
      1. +16
        16 August 2014 15: 26
        Hmm ... Find a replacement for everything !!! I think the experts have already written memos !!! No need to panic !!! There are no fools in the Kremlin ... They have calculated everything !!! Yes, I think, and I don’t feel like it myself ... I’m getting into a mess !!!
        1. +11
          16 August 2014 17: 06
          Grant-eater from the fifth column "Author Olga Samofalova" leads fools by the nose. The same Japanese were not banned from agricultural products. You can not enter a ban on them either. Moreover, real Japanese are an order of magnitude better than the best European cars, and there is no need to talk about American manure. Who only allowed their trash to be imported into Russia. The ban on European and American cars is quite logical and appropriate, and, most importantly, there are no problems for Russia. And the Koreans are no worse than the European level. The Chinese pulled themselves together. And Europe and America must respond to their sanctions. And not like the Jews from the fifth column call to wipe off, surrender and crawl on their knees to the author's fellow tribesmen and give them all their resources and surrender the Russians and all ours in Ukraine. Here is one of her owners, Borova, so we Russians and said: "On your knees, creatures, and ask for forgiveness from several generations of Ukrainians!"
          yeghiazaryan.info/borovoj-rossiyanam-na-koleni-tvari-i-prosit-proshheniya-u-nesk
          olkix-pokolenij-ukraincev /
          1. +17
            16 August 2014 17: 28
            I don’t know, I don’t know. Sanctions are a delicate matter. you need to calculate everything to the smallest detail, take into account the risks, and then create. Of course, you can scratch your left ear with your right hand, but is it rational? But hitting "McDonald's", "Pepsi" and "Coca" would be very sensitive for our sworn friend, at the same time, the health of young people would be preserved. In addition, Poroshenko's "Rushen" is still operating on our territory, and money is flowing to the account of this monster. bully
          2. -13
            16 August 2014 17: 42
            In Nikodai S you can feel the native inhabitant of Vladivostok - the owner of the right-hand drive garbage can, which is "the best" ...
            1. +6
              16 August 2014 18: 19
              Quote: zeleznijdorojnik
              In Nikodai S you can feel the native inhabitant of Vladivostok - the owner of the right-hand drive garbage can, which is "the best" ...


              The minus did not set you every taste. But in practice, the right-handed Japanese show themselves much better than the same left-handed bought in the cabin and assembled at our factory hi
              1. +2
                16 August 2014 21: 09
                Quite so! Proven by a few friends who have contacted the salons selling St. Petersburg pipilats! "I bought a mamo bunk, and buns without a leg ..."
              2. 0
                16 August 2014 21: 51
                Quote: 41 REGION
                But in practice, the right-handed Japanese show themselves much better than the same left-handed bought in the cabin and assembled at our factory hi

                I xs, of course, the felt-tip pens have different tastes and colors, but personally, I always thought that only a sick person can buy right-hand drive in a country with right-hand traffic. Sorry if I offended anyone, but I think that security is much more important than goleted show-offs.
                1. +4
                  17 August 2014 04: 28
                  Quote: Letun
                  Quote: 41 REGION
                  But in practice, the right-handed Japanese show themselves much better than the same left-handed bought in the cabin and assembled at our factory hi

                  I xs, of course, the felt-tip pens have different tastes and colors, but personally, I always thought that only a sick person can buy right-hand drive in a country with right-hand traffic. Sorry if I offended anyone, but I think that security is much more important than goleted show-offs.


                  That is, do you think sick people live in the Far East, Sakhalin, Kamchatka, and Siberia? We can say that almost no one was offended request
                  1. 0
                    17 August 2014 16: 23
                    Quote: 41 REGION
                    That is, do you think sick people live in the Far East, Sakhalin, Kamchatka, and Siberia? We can say that almost no one was offended request

                    No, re-read what I wrote again. And there is no need to tell here that a right-hand drive Nissan assembled in Japan on the road is safer than the same Nissan with a left-hand drive made in Russia. I drove as a passenger with right-handed carriers on the highway. This is a complete p ... When overtaking, they look ahead over the side of the road, then they ask me if there is an oncoming lane. And I repeat, these same pontores, a la "Japanese Japanese are cooler than Russian Japanese", pose a real threat to the lives of people traveling with them in the same stream.
                    I understand the time when the iron curtain fell and foreign cars poured into Russia, then they bought anything if only a foreign car, but now that the car market is just oversaturated, right-hand drive can only buy ... well, I won’t repeat wink
                    1. 0
                      17 August 2014 17: 16
                      Quote: Letun

                      No, re-read what I wrote again. And there is no need to tell here that a right-hand drive Nissan assembled in Japan on the road is safer than the same Nissan with a left-hand drive made in Russia. I drove as a passenger with right-handed carriers on the highway. This is a complete p ... When overtaking, they look ahead over the side of the road, then they ask me if there is an oncoming lane. And I repeat, these same pontores, a la "Japanese Japanese are cooler than Russian Japanese", pose a real threat to the lives of people traveling with them in the same stream.
                      I understand the time when the iron curtain fell and foreign cars poured into Russia, then they bought anything if only a foreign car, but now that the car market is just oversaturated, right-hand drive can only buy ... well, I won’t repeat wink


                      They read poorly. The right-handed Japanese is better than the left-handed one because it is more reliable in operation. And as for which car is safer on the road, I didn’t write anything at all. It’s your imagination. Safety on the road in most cases depends on the gasket between the steering wheel and the seat, and the car has absolutely nothing to do with it. wink hi
                2. ledyvasilisa
                  +2
                  17 August 2014 09: 02
                  you’ve written down half of the country from Kamchatka to the Urals as a sick person. Do you take too much on yourself? such reasoning is more characteristic of ancient ukrams. I have been driving Japanese-right-handed cars for more than 20 years and I can say that I'm on the driver's side is completely safe compared to those who are on the left side. But since I don’t drive passengers, their safety doesn’t bother me, but my own worries about it and how. Sitting as a passenger on the left side is VERY disagreeable.
                  1. +1
                    17 August 2014 13: 15
                    Quote: ledyvasilisa
                    since I don’t drive passengers, their safety doesn’t bother me
                    And endanger your life even more. So, even if a passenger can be asked if there is an oncoming car in order to overtake, otherwise one has to protrude far in order to see for oneself. Is not it so?
              3. +3
                16 August 2014 23: 49
                in practice, the right-handed Japanese show themselves much better

                Especially on the track - this is "something"! I almost "flew" into the "right-handed" when he, going to overtake the truck, "got out" all! (He can't see the "situation"!) Thank God - for my luck there was a "pocket", where I "drowned"! The owner of the "right-handed" heard a lot of mate from me! And apparently, he hiccupped for a long time, you bastard!
            2. +11
              16 August 2014 21: 04
              I am from "Nikolai S." not far away, sorry! For I live on D.V. all my 48 years old! And about "right-handed garbage dumps" You talk to your neighbor for a bubble, iron road builder! By the way, I've been driving trains since 1993. We have the word "VAZ" abusive, the moderators are banned! By the way, I recently bought another "trash heap", did not hesitate to get into credit, "x-trail", with a mileage of 42000 km. Now I'm looking for something to change, repair it on it .... But there is nothing!
              1. +3
                17 August 2014 01: 41
                And so they are patriots of the country spilled: which bourgeois car is better
            3. 0
              17 August 2014 00: 44
              Better, not better, what's the difference? Although the quality of modern Japanese women, one can argue. But to buy from those who are trying to poke your nose in ... de ???
              For example, I come to you and say, come on mu ... duck buy a car from me. Will you buy
          3. +7
            16 August 2014 18: 08
            [quote = Nikolay S.] Grant-eater from the fifth column "Author Olga Samofalova" leads fools by the nose. The same Japanese were not banned from agricultural products. You can not enter a ban on them either. Moreover, real Japanese are an order of magnitude better than the best European cars, and there is no need to talk about American dung. Who only allowed their trash to be imported into Russia. / Quote]

            The Japanese did not impose a ban on agricultural products because they do not deliver it to us. I completely agree with everything else. To learn and study our auto industry from the Japanese. hi
          4. +2
            16 August 2014 21: 09
            Quote: Nikolai S.
            The same Japanese did not impose a ban on agricultural products.

            What is the share of Japan in Russia's food imports?
            How do they compete with a domestic manufacturer?
            When you answer these questions, you will understand why the Yapam was not banned.
        2. +3
          16 August 2014 20: 01
          Quote: Armagedon
          ! No need to panic !!!

          Quote: Armagedon
          Hmm ... Find a replacement for everything !!!

          Absolutely accurate definition! good Already automobile components from aggregates to oil seals are a sea of ​​good manufacturers.
          Why impose sanctions against those who work diligently in the Russian Federation and have a high level of localization?
          But to choose from the automakers a couple of the most ardent representatives of the most active Russophobia and to get out of the Russian market - that’s it. Yes
          In general, why impose sanctions that can do us more harm than good?
          It is enough to tyrannize the food sector of American prostitutes and consumer goods. They already feel like a sickle on Merkel.
          And soon it’s still winter with .... that Ukraine-transit-super debtor. We will also recall the South Stream, which is time to reorient to two exits: to Turkey, and if you wake up to Bulgaria. We will recall Yamal-Europe-2, and the third thread of Nord Streem, and its moronic Russophobic third energy package.
      2. +4
        16 August 2014 17: 39
        Korea-Korea - You seem to know - how tightly South Korea lies under the Yankees ... like small children, honestly.
        1. +7
          16 August 2014 20: 10
          Quote: zeleznijdorojnik
          Korea-Korea - You seem to know - how tightly South Korea lies under the Yankees ... like small children, honestly.

          It may be sitting tight, but it does not go to support American sanctions, and this is the main thing.
          1. DMB-88
            +1
            16 August 2014 20: 32
            Quote: PENZYAC
            It may be sitting tight, but it does not go to support American sanctions, and this is the main thing.


            And you can explain what the essence of pedosovsky sanctions is, I, without irony, just missed something ...
      3. +4
        16 August 2014 21: 29
        I am ready to support the sanctions to ban the sale of foreign cars to our officials, even those assembled in Russia, maybe then the quality of our car industry will improve. But I am afraid for them this is a sore subject, they will not sit around.
      4. +1
        16 August 2014 22: 04
        Quote: Rostovchanin
        Korea is already rubbing his hands
        And "Chevrolet" will again call DEU, keeping a part of the shares for GM. Most likely, they will be engaged in localization, and it is economically more profitable, and like a Western manufacturer davanuli. Again, replacing Chinese tires with Russian ones - 1% at once, oils, antifreezes ... And we will be informed about a sharp increase in the Russian share in assembled foreign cars.
        Well, we will not encroach on sacred things. It's like going from a decent car to the Volga! “I have kickbacks a day for the cost of this Volga!” “Yes, I’m all of you! ..” “I’m not a vegetable to ride this.” Well, it will somehow be that way. Although, the Germans in Elabuga (if I’m not mistaken) planned to organize a large production of components, but there, again, ours decided to get in with their own interest, and I don’t know how it ended.
        1. 0
          16 August 2014 23: 57
          Objectively, the bourgeoisie surpass us in the quality of civilian cars, he himself drove all his life on the Volga, now on the Volga-Cyber, in fact on the Chrysler. The car is very good. The technology and machines were bought from amers, only 9000 machines were produced, what prevents them from riveting for another 5 years, on their basis to invent something new? Like the same "victory" that is 50% emka, and emka is a facelifted Ford.
          1. 0
            19 August 2014 22: 00
            You will be surprised, but on "Volgas", gaziks - 53, gazelles, the nomenclature of parts catalogs from GAZ-A, GAZ-AA, M-1 has been preserved
      5. +2
        17 August 2014 00: 24
        I’ve been traveling to KIA for six years, I can’t boast about it. I have nothing against the Koreans, the quality is high, the guarantee is 5 years, and the maintenance is excellent.
    2. 0
      16 August 2014 16: 01
      The more I read newspapers and watch news on TV, the more clearly I understand: it’s necessary to bring down not from Russia, but from the planet!
      1. WKS
        +7
        16 August 2014 16: 35
        The more I read newspapers and watch news on TV, the more clearly I understand: it’s necessary to bring down not from Russia, but from the planet!

        You need to do this as quickly as possible. Maybe there really will be better for you. On Uranus, or at least on the Moon, or maybe you have peered into other star systems? It will take a long time to wait for the delivery vehicle. Now this can be done only in the form of a light ray, a metamorphosis that is successful for you.
        1. +4
          16 August 2014 18: 09
          Quote: wks
          You will be better off. On Uranus or at least on the Moon

          I love my homeland. And this is so ... thoughts out loud. hi
      2. 0
        16 August 2014 20: 11
        Quote: 53-Sciborskiy
        The more I read newspapers and watch news on TV, the more clearly I understand: it’s necessary to bring down not from Russia, but from the planet!

        To Mars, or what? fool
        1. +1
          17 August 2014 18: 03
          How much does a Green Card cost on Nabira?
      3. 0
        16 August 2014 20: 13
        it’s necessary to bring down not from Russia, but from the planet!

        53-Sciborskiy so who the hell do you need is a fucking fucker)
        and change your profile picture then) Warriors do not run away)
        1. DMB-88
          +1
          16 August 2014 20: 36
          Quote: Barsik
          53-Sciborskiy so who the hell do you need is a fucking fucker)
          and change your profile picture then) Warriors do not run away)


          If you want to escape from this submarine)))
          Just ask, without personalities!
          We are decent people! soldier
      4. 0
        16 August 2014 23: 55
        Where to run from the "submarine" ?! laughing
    3. +3
      16 August 2014 16: 26
      Here with the auto industry, you need to measure seven times, before imposing sanctions in this sector.
      1. +1
        16 August 2014 19: 59
        It’s not necessary to bring down the cowardly but roll up your sleeves !!!
        1. DMB-88
          -3
          16 August 2014 20: 37
          Quote: Lyubteh
          It’s not necessary to bring down the cowardly but roll up your sleeves !!!


          Do you offer shock work for the benefit of the oligarchy?
        2. DMB-88
          +1
          16 August 2014 20: 41
          Quote: Lyubteh
          It’s not necessary to bring down the cowardly but roll up your sleeves !!!

          No, we will not leave in spite of the capitalist bloodsuckers and
          we will work to drive an aspen stake into the coffin of the domestic and world bourgeoisie !!! angry
          1. +1
            17 August 2014 08: 31
            Quote: DMB-88
            No, we will not leave in spite of the capitalist bloodsuckers and
            we will work to drive an aspen stake into the coffin of the domestic and world bourgeoisie !!!

            Save! !! Urgently on Kumach and hang over the checkpoints!
            1. 0
              19 August 2014 03: 48
              Quote: Bayonet
              Save! !! Urgently on Kumach and hang over the checkpoints!

              Do not worry, already hanging. Only not on Kumach, but in corporate colors No. A factory brekhunok - Brezhnev Pravda. Happy faces of workers, reports of success, restrained praise of the bourgeois managers, plans for the bulk, calls for patience and tightening their belts. But the head of the workshop, production - many, already do not know in person. I'm not talking about MANAGERS and GOVERNORS.
          2. +1
            17 August 2014 18: 23
            This is not Tulev, but Leo Trotsky. And even more powerful and incendiary can you? And that same aspen, like a blued bayonet, is seen.
      2. 0
        16 August 2014 21: 44
        Quote: Thought Giant
        Here with the auto industry, you need to measure seven times, before imposing sanctions in this sector.
        Yes, and by the way, the author developed the topic only about personal cars. But there is still construction, agricultural equipment (Caterpillar, Liebherr, JCB, etc.). True, here Chinese competes with cheaper parts.
    4. +2
      16 August 2014 17: 25
      Who are these ordinary citizens who ride a Mercier, Ford, Audi .......?
      1. -3
        16 August 2014 18: 28
        luxury cars must be banned, and the rest left.
        1. -1
          16 August 2014 21: 17
          And toilet paper too! Snickering, bourgeois !!! Newspapers are few and glassy !!!
      2. +2
        16 August 2014 20: 17
        Quote: Waterfowl
        Who are these ordinary citizens who ride a Mercier, Ford, Audi .......?

        I know such installers personally (simple hard workers, by the way), however, I bought a used five years, or even older.
      3. 0
        17 August 2014 08: 33
        Who are these ordinary citizens who ride a Mercier, Ford, Audi .......? [/ Quote]
        Comrade! You seem to have recently come out of the underground?
    5. 0
      16 August 2014 18: 13
      The Marshal immediately shows that the OFFICER is FROM 5 COLUMNS. And do not add yourself to the "ORDINARY CITIZENS". And budget BILLIONS to spend on you is an expensive pleasure. Buy a car on your grandmothers and let "SERVICE VODILO" carry you on it!
    6. DMB-88
      0
      16 August 2014 21: 06
      Quote: mig31
      Sanctions have always been shortsighted weapons, it’s easy for politicians to smack the fever, and ordinary citizens will have to rake the devastation ...


      In general, I read the comments and realized that the winged "We were born to make a fairy tale come true" remained in our Glorious Socialist past, and now apparently our lot is to fasten the wheels to the "foltswagons" and resell Chinese cowards, as our government says, in m. .i.n. sadness sad
  2. +13
    16 August 2014 14: 54
    They ruined their car industry ... now we are thinking about sanctions ... Aw, Prokhorov, the great oligarch .. and de your E-mobile ... he was promised to fill them up ... Wasn’t enough ..?
    1. +2
      16 August 2014 16: 53
      Quote: parusnik
      They ruined their car industry ... now we are thinking about sanctions ... Aw, Prokhorov, the great oligarch .. and de your E-mobile ... he was promised to fill them up ... Wasn’t enough ..?



      so ktozh give him?

      one of our artists, a comedian and a racer, also asked the government for a penny for the development of a modular car, promised almost a revolution in the domestic auto industry, as a result, better
      screwdrivers to collect someone else than to have your ...
    2. DMB-88
      +4
      16 August 2014 20: 47
      Quote: parusnik
      They ruined their car industry ... now we are thinking about sanctions ... Aw, Prokhorov, the great oligarch .. and de your E-mobile ... he was promised to fill them up ... Wasn’t enough ..?


      Is it just the auto industry?
      They ruined the whole industry !!!
      In the USSR, an average of 300 aircraft (civilian) were produced per year, but now we cannot reach all twenty types and assemble them on the knee, as before the Revolution!
      and soon, with such energy prices, we will burn torches!
  3. Fast
    +7
    16 August 2014 14: 55
    All the people have long been of the opinion that it has long been time for VAZ and GAZ to work independently, in the end to give a normal middle class car, and not to let this commercial trifle out, we simply have dangerous trips on them, and they have microscopic resources, especially to change cars more often , and the equipment is partially imported, which is already expensive for a simple person. And now, we can easily lose spare parts for the entire fleet of European foreign cars and we will gradually have nothing left (China unfortunately is not able to help, the quality is at zero). People need to listen, and not stupidly warm their hands. We do planes, rockets, and it’s a shame to produce such cars.
    1. Fast
      +29
      16 August 2014 15: 34
      I drive (experience 41 years) on a European foreign car which is 24 years old and has a mileage of 520000 km, without signs of soot, without noise, the body is a girl, then it passes fairly honestly, the last time I contacted the service 3 years ago, I changed the stabilizer struts and the ball joints for prevention (and when I bought it, I once shook it all), now I can sit on a swallow, and without looking under the hood I can leave for Vladivostok and back without problems. Here we are waiting for such a car from VAZ, and not the one from which after 2 years and 60000 km everyone dreams of getting rid. For the truth, minus me ?, funny.
      1. anti-beetles
        0
        16 August 2014 16: 33
        What model ?
      2. +15
        16 August 2014 16: 55
        Quote: Fast
        Here we are waiting for such a car from VAZ,

        What price do you expect? I didn’t give you any minuses, but you’re not quite right. Our car industry is far from perfect, I agree, but in the price scale it has its own niche. The same VAZ does not pretend to be Mercedes laurels. I have already written several times that I had an Opel Astra (I took a new one), and it cost me much more for maintenance than the same Kalina that I drive now, in particular for the suspension. Yes, foreign cars break down less often, but one repair costs the same as several repairs of the same Lada. And yet, if our car breaks down, there is a chance to fix it "on the knee", with a foreign car it is only a tow truck station (and even then, not every one). hi
        1. Demon0n
          +3
          16 August 2014 18: 01
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Quote: Fast
          Here we are waiting for such a car from VAZ,

          What price do you expect? I didn’t give you any minuses, but you’re not quite right. Our car industry is far from perfect, I agree, but in the price scale it has its own niche. The same VAZ does not pretend to be Mercedes laurels. I have already written several times that I had an Opel Astra (I took a new one), and it cost me much more for maintenance than the same Kalina that I drive now, in particular for the suspension. Yes, foreign cars break down less often, but one repair costs the same as several repairs of the same Lada. And yet, if our car breaks down, there is a chance to fix it "on the knee", with a foreign car it is only a tow truck station (and even then, not every one). hi


          Our car industry is far from perfect, but from common sense.
          Let it not sound cheers-patriotic, but ...
          What you wrote about the repair with snot and some mother is not relevant for at least 10 years. Domestic ones also have on-board computers and a lot of imported things (from the "industry miscarriage" section), but no, now they are not repaired on the knee.
          By the quality of speaking ... It's like recalling a nightmare from the category of "you can't shake off a mattress." That there are only cases with falling out windshields ... How so? Yes, like this: they filled it with ordinary building sealant (at the factory), but only saved it, and instead of a "continuous gasket", the glass holds on for 3-4 misunderstandings, the rest of the space is one continuous hole.
          It is not worth looking for the intrigues and frauds of shadow governments, if the IDDs themselves are The popularity of the domestic auto industry is fully justified. You can put up with something for the sake of patriotism, but not with the fact that after a standard trip you do not come by car, but on a pile of scattered trash. Even if these are isolated cases, it is they who make the weather. You don’t have to be a doctorate, and everything will be in order.
          1. +2
            16 August 2014 18: 25
            Quote: Demon0n
            What you wrote about repairs using snot and some mother is not relevant for at least 10 years.
            I am able to replace the thermostat, alternator belt, pump even now. This is despite the fact that I'm not a car mechanic.
            Quote: Demon0n
            What are the only cases with falling out windshields ... How so?
            Give you examples of recalling cars for similar cases in the USA and Europe? Google, the information is full.
            Quote: Demon0n
            It is not worth looking for the intrigues and frauds of shadow governments, if the IDDs themselves are
            Well, well.
            Quote: Demon0n
            You don’t have to be a doctorate, and everything will be in order.
            You need to start with yourself! What to blame on the mirror.
            P.S. Foreign women are always more interesting and attractive than their wife, especially in niglis, only they will not wash and cook you.
            1. Demon0n
              0
              16 August 2014 18: 30
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              You need to start with yourself! What to blame on the mirror.
              P.S. Foreign women are always more interesting and attractive than their wife, especially in niglis, only they will not wash and cook you.


              Is this an attempt to insult?
              Can you give me a detailed description?
              There will be no arguments, as I understand it?
              What conclusion can I draw about you?
              Sometimes meaningless words speak more about the person than the person would like.
              1. +5
                16 August 2014 18: 56
                Quote: Demon0n
                Is this an attempt to insult?
                Didn't even try. But all the more, I do not like people who indiscriminately hang labels on their compatriots. People with bright minds worked at the same VAZ. Earlier. But this is not a reason to call them dumb .... mi. Now the French have almost completely dispersed the entire scientific and technical part. Fuck all our models, replacing the Nissan with a "screwdriver". And to listen to you - the idiots themselves.hi
                P.S. In my komente nothing else attracted your attention?
                1. Demon0n
                  +3
                  16 August 2014 21: 36
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Quote: Demon0n
                  Is this an attempt to insult?
                  Didn't even try. But all the more, I do not like people who indiscriminately hang labels on their compatriots. People with bright minds worked at the same VAZ. Earlier. But this is not a reason to call them dumb .... mi. Now the French have almost completely dispersed the entire scientific and technical part. Fuck all our models, replacing the Nissan with a "screwdriver". And to listen to you - the idiots themselves.hi
                  P.S. In my komente nothing else attracted your attention?


                  1) As I mentioned, the reputation of the domestic auto industry is well deserved. I explain: it is possible to change belts and other elements for all cars, in the presence of a brain (you can even change the on-board computer), but this requires the availability of relevant details. In any case, the nodes of modern machines can not be replaced. Moment number 2: the build quality of components of domestic machines is lower than that of European, Japanese and American (they fail more often, for various reasons, whether wiring or otherwise ...). And this is due to the collapse of domestic related industries (including, but not only machine tool industry). Indirect evidence (to the aggregate ...) are statistical data on the volume of the market.
                  2) "I didn't even try" and the subsequent "And to listen to you - the idiot themselves" are mutually contradictory in content (that is, this is either a deliberate attempt at deception, or a violation of the logical apparatus). Usually, people who are not educated and not distant (who do not have a sufficient intellectual level of development) resort to unprovoked and unreasonable personal insults (moreover, in the field of dispute or discussion, this is typical in the absence of an evidence base). Let me explain: this is provoking a conflict from scratch with a zero objective result (however, there is a variant like this: there are aggressive personalities whom society tries to isolate from itself ... the reasons for aggressiveness are different, but, as a rule, these are emotional trauma as a result of bullying in childhood ).
                  Continue?
                  1. +2
                    16 August 2014 22: 44
                    Quote: Demon0n
                    It is not worth looking for the intrigues and frauds of shadow governments, if the IDDs themselves are

                    Quote: Demon0n
                    You don’t have to be a doctorate, and everything will be in order.
                    How does this fit in with this?
                    Quote: Demon0n
                    Usually, uneducated and not distant (not possessing a sufficient intellectual level of development) resort to unprovoked and unreasonable personal insults

                    For individuals who are especially gifted in psychoanalysts, I will explain that I live in Togliatti, where most of the residents work at the VAZ. Accordingly, I have enough friends among them. And here such "gentle" generalizations. Judging by your knowledge in the works of Kashchenko and Lombroso, you will draw the correct conclusions, I explained the "sources" of my reaction to you, and without insults, and without hints of possible childhood traumas. laughing
                    Essentially - I doubt that you will manage to change the pump or the alternator belt on a foreign car.
                    I agree with the collapse of related industries, but only partially. A holy place is never empty, and if we approach the issue of supplying spare parts without kickbacks, everything will be fine. Part of the spare parts for the conveyor is supplied by VIS-Service, also local. So, VIS spare parts are more popular than Boshevsky ones, etc., precisely because of their reliability.
                    PS
                    Quote: Demon0n
                    "I didn't even try" and the subsequent "And to listen to you - the idiot themselves" are mutually contradictory in content
                    And what is contradictory here? "I didn't even try" - the answer to a question about a possible attempt to insult, "And to listen to you - themselves idiot.y" - a reference to your opinion about the perpetrators of the collapse of the car industry. It seems that you are not strong in psychoanalytics either. hi
                    1. Demon0n
                      -2
                      16 August 2014 23: 36
                      Quote: Ingvar 72

                      For individuals especially gifted in psychoanalysts, I will explain that I live in Tolyatti, where most of the inhabitants work precisely at the VAZ. Accordingly, I have enough friends among them.


                      So, you are an interested person ... This explains everything. Those. You perceived the information (namely, information about unsatisfactory quality in a harsh form based on facts, to put it mildly, sloppiness) as a personal insult. And now one more thing. I am familiar with creations, including and VAZ not by hearsay. And, I can say that my accusations are justified (both by personal subjective experience and objective data). On the other hand, you are trying to assert that my experience is false, and true, exclusively yours. In other words, you claim that only you are a spokesman for the truth (in a specific field), the rest (those who are not satisfied ... because of their experience and the experience of the observed are liars?) ... You have to be more modest.
                      I will not deny that in VAZ, as in other enterprises, there are, including and brilliant personalities (I can’t judge this, because I don’t have the necessary information), but this does not deny the allegation of the presence ... Or am I wrong?
                      And now, the main question: what contradiction with what I wrote earlier exists in reality? I guess the logical chain is affordable ...
                      One more thing: these are the principles of competition (however, at the moment, I see no reason to delve into this area regarding the quality of components, because I consider the justification of my initial opinion sufficient) ...
                      1. +2
                        17 August 2014 09: 21
                        Quote: Demon0n
                        I will not deny that in VAZ, as in other enterprises, there are, including and brilliant personalities (I can’t judge this because I don’t have the necessary information), but this does not deny allegations of availability ... Or am I wrong?
                        Even the most beautiful girls go to the toilet for the most part, and if you focus on this ... laughing I have already mentioned the data available in the public domain, the recall of cars in the west. Accordingly, these ..... are there. But for some reason you focus only on our ....
                      2. Demon0n
                        0
                        17 August 2014 14: 41
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Quote: Demon0n
                        I will not deny that in VAZ, as in other enterprises, there are, including and brilliant personalities (I can’t judge this because I don’t have the necessary information), but this does not deny allegations of availability ... Or am I wrong?
                        Even the most beautiful girls go to the toilet for the most part, and if you focus on this ... laughing I have already mentioned the data available in the public domain, the recall of cars in the west. Accordingly, these ..... are there. But for some reason you focus only on our ....


                        Do you think that I am not judging objectively (as close as possible to objectivity ...) based on the lack of knowledge about the existence of such categories as factory (manufacturing or technological) defects and projection errors? This is not true. Since you have touched on this topic, I will explain my position (due to, including subjective experience). Production and projection errors are a general phenomenon (that is, they are characteristic of all complex systems, more precisely, the creation process), but there is such a thing as a violation of technology (this is when there are "extra cogs" and other "extra details" (there must be something then remind, very characteristic), or ingenuity turns on where you don't need to think, everything has already been thought out for you). I will not deny that there is a tendency for a general deterioration in production and projection discipline throughout the world (not only in Russia), but I am not aware of cases confirming this trend in countries with a more developed market (conditionally) economy in the field of mechanical engineering and instrument making (this is a detailed answer to the topic of negligence). Probably a quality control system (one can say systems, but this is not entirely true) is working? There is only an indirect confirmation (in the absence of evidence) of this, namely, the development of automation and robotization of production (ie, the elimination of the human factor) in countries with a more developed "market" economy. You wrote that "a holy place is never empty"? And here competitive factors intervene (which can be, and as a rule, are not based on market mechanisms, but dictated by the market). As a technologist, you should know that absolutely identical parts do not exist, they are all alike, even those that came off the same conveyor. But that's not all ... In order to increase profits, rationalize and minimize costs, old or "unsuccessful" solutions can be produced simultaneously with new or "improved" products. We, or rather Russia, are the market for products of this class in those areas where it is rational (this is a theoretical justification for the low quality of "domestic" components, in the absence of our own technology and production).
                        By the way, in spite of the psychological factor combined with the probabilistic (relative to the capriciousness of technology), I am alien to personify any products, including cars (which doesn’t interfere ...).
      3. DMB-88
        +2
        16 August 2014 20: 52
        Quote: Fast
        I drive (experience 41 years) on a European foreign car which is 24 years old and has a mileage of 520000 km, without signs of soot, without noise, the body is a girl, then it honestly passes, the last time I contacted the service 3 years ago,


        my Dad, too, in the 83rd "kopeck" bought and goes to the dacha with a breeze !!! And the "Volgas" assembled in the USSR, were serviced by taxi drivers for 500-600 tons and overhaul!
        and you don’t need to compare the cars assembled for a long time and the current disposable, designed for the warranty period!
      4. 0
        17 August 2014 04: 40
        Quote: Fast
        I drive (experience 41 years) on a European foreign car which is 24 years old and has a mileage of 520000 km, without signs of soot, without noise, the body is a girl, then it passes fairly honestly, the last time I contacted the service 3 years ago, I changed the stabilizer struts and the ball joints for prevention (and when I bought it, I once shook it all), now I can sit on a swallow, and without looking under the hood I can leave for Vladivostok and back without problems. Here we are waiting for such a car from VAZ, and not the one from which after 2 years and 60000 km everyone dreams of getting rid. For the truth, minus me ?, funny.


        For the truth, you are a big plus ++++++++++++++
    2. +3
      16 August 2014 17: 21
      Yes, no one will ban the import of cars and accessories for them! nobody offered it! where such infa? just imagine - the import of components was banned! there will be plants for the assembly of foreign cars in Russia! thousands of people will lose jobs! AvtoVAZ will stand as there are many components of imported production! cars have the ability to break, there will be nothing to repair! car dealerships will also close! more people will go to the labor exchange! blooming auto theft to disassemble for parts!
      Another important point. for example, an electric Mitsubishi in Russia cost 1900000 rubles. after the abolition of import duties for electric cars, it began to cost 990000 rubles! duty lyam! the state earns much more on imported cars than the manufacturer!
      in the end, we can conclude that the ban on the import of foreign cars and accessories for them is a sanction against us!
  4. +11
    16 August 2014 15: 04
    I’m a patriot, but I don’t want to have either a VAZ or GAZ
    1. WKS
      +2
      16 August 2014 16: 38
      Quote: coconut tim
      I’m a patriot, but I don’t want to have either a VAZ or GAZ

      Have you ever owned them? Or immediately began with a foreign car?
      1. +5
        16 August 2014 19: 41
        Quote: wks
        Have you ever owned them?


        Sorry to wedge myself.
        A penny in 1972, Shah 1983, nine red, pyatnashechka .....
        At one time, it was good ... but ... after WV .... I AM FOR PEACE.
    2. +3
      16 August 2014 17: 42
      That's right! Now they have produced so many cars that sometimes one wonders how people, in the majority of the poor, have such sophisticated foreign cars ... For example, I need to live two lives in order to have money to buy this car!
  5. Adzhimushkay
    +22
    16 August 2014 15: 05
    I was always amazed at how much value people attach to cars. By God, it’s even a shame, like adult men, and they are discussing what kind of tsatskas or new forms of headlights. Like women with hats ...
    Is going? does not break? economically? What isho necessary?
    1. 0
      16 August 2014 15: 17
      BODY: Riding? does not break? economically? What isho necessary?
      1. +2
        16 August 2014 17: 18
        dear, have you really invented a self-propelled cart, you are our Kulibin wassat
      2. +3
        16 August 2014 18: 54
        alexandr-budarin1
        BODY: Riding? does not break? economically? What isho necessary?

        You have strange humor ... request
        1. +1
          16 August 2014 21: 23
          Very much humor, in the subject of the previous speaker.
    2. WKS
      +1
      16 August 2014 16: 40
      Quote: Adzhimushkay
      I was always amazed at how much value people attach to cars. By God, it’s even a shame, like adult men, and they are discussing what kind of tsatskas or new forms of headlights. Like women with hats ...

      They are not men or adults, they are not overgrown in childhood in BIBIK.
    3. 0
      17 August 2014 08: 43
      Quote: Adzhimushkay
      I was always amazed at how much value people attach to cars. By God, it’s even a shame, like adult men, and they are discussing what kind of tsatskas or new forms of headlights. Like women with hats ...
      Is going? does not break? economically? What isho necessary?

      Well, I would have walked in bast shoes - economically, conveniently and do not break! I know one such person, he smeared the glass sealant on his ancient Moskvich with plasticine and normally, I say "It's not beautiful," and he - "Who needs it - beauty, the main thing is that it doesn't flow!"
  6. +2
    16 August 2014 15: 07
    I thought I would lose consciousness until I overlooked. I open this article and see:
  7. +3
    16 August 2014 15: 08
    Another attempt to transfer people to Lada?
    If the issues of building car factories for new modern domestic models were discussed, that would be right. And AvtoVAZ has long since died morally. Reminds 60-year-old former beauty, who thinks that the whole thing is only in new cosmetics.
    You can ban anything in Russia. Our Government is a great master. Only as a result of its production, all the same, in the coming 5-7 there will be no years, and cars from China will tumble into the country.
    To be honest, I am already alarmed by the growing potential dependence of Russia on this country.
    1. +5
      16 August 2014 17: 04
      Quote: Reserve officer
      And AvtoVAZ has long since died morally.
      Then why did the French buy it? They don’t invest money anywhere. stop And VAZ was actively helped to die, and the first persons of our state.
      The approach to our auto industry is initially wrong, here you need to ask one question - is the company profitable or not? If at least a little bit profitable, then in no case should it be bullied or sold abroad. This is a strategic full-cycle enterprise, not a banal "screwdriver" workshop. Moreover, such a giant as AvtoVAZ, which was built by the whole country, and which, in the event of a war, within a week (I don’t remember exactly) was reconfigured to produce armored vehicles.
    2. +1
      17 August 2014 15: 04
      Vaz is not dead. He is methodically killed by the French.
  8. AX
    +1
    16 August 2014 15: 09
    It’s time to face our auto industry already ...
  9. rumata63
    +3
    16 August 2014 15: 13
    another "populist fix idea"
  10. +7
    16 August 2014 15: 15
    Where have you seen our auto industry ?? AvtoVAZ is already the estate of Renault-Nissan by more than 70% !! OUR left (thank God) is only UralVagonZavod!
    1. 0
      16 August 2014 17: 48
      The production of tanks is beneficial to the state, because when selling to the foreign market, it always has stable revenue! So it is not in vain that they eat bread at the Uralvagonzavod!
      1. +3
        16 August 2014 22: 10
        Quote: Igor F.
        The production of tanks is beneficial to the state, because when selling to the foreign market, it always has stable revenue! So it is not in vain that they eat bread at the Uralvagonzavod!

        The release of tanks at UVZ is only one of the sectors of production in Nizhny Tagil, before the dashing 90s, UVZ, in accordance with the name, also produced wagons, in particular tanks for LNG transportation, similar production was also in Germany. With the beginning of privatization by the mid-90s. managed to reduce this production to the manufacture of bowls, spoons, and then shut down. As a result, the Germans became a monopolist in the production of tanks. And our tanks were exported no worse than tanks and completely competed with German ones. I do not know how things are now with their production in Russia, But I don’t think they have resumed, because the equipment was sold out, the area too. Now it turns out that they are building a plant for LNG on Yamal and ordering gas tankers in Korea. But it would be possible to go to Europe by rail tank cars, to Asia. But: "We will destroy the whole world of violence to the ground, And then ....?" As my former boss said: "What do you want, MANAGERS come!"
  11. +4
    16 August 2014 15: 15
    it’s too late to turn to our car industry ... at least for the next 10 years, for sure ...

    About sanctions, IMHO I think (there would be a will) would do so:
    To all western car manufacturers: if you want to trade new cars in Russia, please, but only those that are assembled in our territory, build factories, create jobs, and if that happens, you can analyze and continue to manufacture factories of all models and s.r.a.t. . for sanctions and threats! bully
  12. +3
    16 August 2014 15: 19
    With the auto industry, guys are easier! And then dizziness from success began. Damn with them with cars, but with trucks and specials it will turn out very sadly. And not a single MAZ will help. KAMAZ already uses German components by half.
    It will hit the economy very hard, and millions of people left without work will ask you for this. What will you moo? We did not calculate?
    1. +6
      16 August 2014 15: 51
      Yes, KAMAZ only has our nameplate KAMAZ5490 frame cabin engine "Merinovskie" bridges - "Manovskie" krobka "ZF" rubber can only be put on Kama, but she doesn’t walk more than 30000
  13. +2
    16 August 2014 15: 27
    I don’t feel like driving at all ...
    1. +2
      16 August 2014 21: 21
      Quote: dEADj
      I don’t feel like driving at all ...

      It’s better to ride Lada than to walk and grumble.
  14. +4
    16 August 2014 15: 36
    How many wonderful discoveries we have
    Prepares sanctions this way.
    And Western threats are stupid
    Russia will not be able to turn over.
    1. +1
      16 August 2014 21: 35
      Tatarus, (we seem to live somewhere nearby), Khoja Nasretdin has a good answer to the riddle: "why did the felt mat, why the mop burned out, why did the donkey stop?" The answer is - did not turn! It is time to move your ass for a long time! And in 93rd at AZLK and 51st I gave up driving ... Goosebumps are still itching!
  15. +8
    16 August 2014 15: 38
    Some "president of the association of young entrepreneurs" and "president of the association of car dealers", as well as the community of rogue insurers, will still determine whether Russia will exist as a sovereign state, or will it turn into another "poodle" of some Bush III, or even the fourth?
    It recalls how the owners of casinos on Tverskaya ached, what wonderful jobs they create, and how the whole economy is without bottom. will collapse immediately ...
  16. MSA
    MSA
    +1
    16 August 2014 15: 43
    Sanctions are effective against weak and pliable states, and Russia needs to be negotiated.
  17. +2
    16 August 2014 15: 45
    Quote: Adzhimushkay
    I was always amazed at how much value people attach to cars. By God, it’s even a shame, like adult men, and they are discussing what kind of tsatskas or new forms of headlights. Like women with hats ...
    Is going? does not break? economically? What isho necessary?

    the fact of the matter is that the crafts of our car industry do not go break down and eat fuel
    1. +2
      16 August 2014 21: 35
      Quote: forester
      Quote: Adzhimushkay
      I was always amazed at how much value people attach to cars. By God, it’s even a shame, like adult men, and they are discussing what kind of tsatskas or new forms of headlights. Like women with hats ...
      Is going? does not break? economically? What isho necessary?

      the fact of the matter is that the crafts of our car industry do not go break down and eat fuel

      For that, more often than not, foreign cars do not run on any gasoline (the processor and (or) neutralizer do not allow) and only on good roads (low ground clearance and soft suspension), even not on all city streets, do not break down, provided that the maintenance regulations are carefully observed (care) and eat grandmother (for "comfort" you have to pay).
      1. 0
        17 August 2014 08: 56
        Quote: PENZYAC
        For that, most often, foreign cars do not go on any gasoline (the processor and (or) the converter do not allow it) and only on good roads (the clearance is small and the suspension is soft),

        So you have to do normal roads and produce normal gasoline, then fools will not be the second trouble - they will simply disappear!
  18. 0
    16 August 2014 16: 01
    the nerd, nevertheless, the premiere with respect to the foreign aviation industry, the sanctions will be really effective - we will use our titanium and not at a loss - we need to pull our aircraft industry out of the swamp, but the automobile industry? here the grandmother for two said at least 90% of the freight in the country is carried out on imported equipment
  19. +3
    16 August 2014 16: 04
    Sanctions are not necessary, but oblige global automakers to increase the level of localization in Russia to at least 80%.
    1. 0
      17 August 2014 08: 59
      Quote: Rigla
      Sanctions are not necessary, but oblige global automakers to increase the level of localization in Russia to at least 80%.

      It is possible, but what will happen to the quality? Especially technologically sophisticated nodes.
  20. PWG
    +2
    16 August 2014 16: 18
    “There is nothing more vile and disgusting than the so-called“ Ukrainians ”! This rabble, raised by the Poles from the most vile dregs of the Russian people (murderers, careerists, the intelligentsia creeping before the government), is ready to kill their own father and mother for power and a profitable place! These geeks are ready to tear their fellow tribesmen apart, and not even for the sake of profit, but for the sake of satisfying their base instincts, for them there is nothing sacred, betrayal is the norm for them, they are wretched in mind, spiteful, envious, cunning with a special cunning. These nonhumans have absorbed all the worst and vilest from the Russians, Poles, and Austrians, there is no room left for good qualities in their souls. Most of all, they hate their benefactors, those who have done them good and are ready to grovel in every possible way before the mighty of this world. They are not adapted to anything and can only perform primitive work, they could never create their own state! " Otto von Bismarck.
    It’s difficult to add something to the characterization of this cattle by a great man!
    1. pahom54
      +4
      16 August 2014 17: 17
      for the PWG

      With two arms and legs for Otto von Bismarck’s statement regarding the Ukrainians, but what does this have to do with the auto industry and the alleged responses to sanctions ???
      1. 0
        17 August 2014 09: 01
        Quote: pahom54
        but what does this have to do with the auto industry and alleged sanctions responses ???

        Apparently guilty of the collapse of the domestic auto industry and the poor quality of its products?
  21. +3
    16 August 2014 16: 21
    Sanctions themselves are harmful in one way or another. But talking about them may turn out to be useful. And really make it clear: we are not petitioners, and not poor relatives. Do you want the guys from concern X to have our market (by the way, delicious, whatever they mumble)? A full cycle in our territory, please be kind to create for, say, 5 years.
    Otherwise, duties for foreigners. These are high-tech jobs, not "dealers" and "insurers"
  22. +2
    16 August 2014 16: 27
    "The government is thinking behind the scenes .."
    Some picking in the nose. Obvious provocation.
    Putin clearly said that they would only apply sanctions that would not harm the country's economy and population.
    They limited government purchases of foreign cars, namely those that do not have production in Russia, and very gently crushed Mercedes and indirectly Merkel, who relies on the electoral lobby from Stuttgart.
    In general, it is protectionist rather than protective measures that are appropriate in this industry. In my opinion, the Government, including “behind the scenes,” understands this well.
  23. Fat frayer
    -2
    16 August 2014 16: 29
    About combed the people, and then you give sanctions and stuff .. saber mahuna. And there will be no Osram bulbs, but plumbing taps. Even pads with wings and toilet paper.
    But we still will not give up.
    We do not care.
    1. +1
      16 August 2014 16: 42
      [[quote] quote = Thick frayer] Oh, people are combing themselves, otherwise you give sanctions and so on .. with a mahunas saber. And there will be no Osram bulbs, but plumbing taps. Even gaskets with wings and toilet paper.
      But we still will not give up.
      We do not care. [/ Quote] [/ quote]

      Haha Where will they sell it? To Sudan or to Nigeria? Maybe in Japan or North Korea?
      Yes, they will lay their own mother for 10% of the profit. "There is no such crime that would not be committed by capital for 10% of the profit," - used to say grandfather Karl. For them, to lose a mastered market is like emasculation.
    2. +1
      16 August 2014 19: 21
      The bulbs again begin to make spiral ones themselves. You say toilet paper ???? Do not choke on drooling !!!!! Gasket with wings ???? Do you often use them ???? !!!! belay Oh-ёёёёёёё Well, I don’t know that this is a basic commodity, that's serious. I'm sorry, but how without them did the female sex manage for several thousand years ???????
      And the last: RUSSIANS DO NOT GIVE UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      And dry up on this, otherwise you will become a "fat fraer"
      1. +2
        16 August 2014 19: 41
        Quote: I am
        Gasket with wings ???? Do you often use them ???? !!!! Oh-ёёёёёёё Well don’t know that this is a commodity of prime necessity,

        You don’t get carried away by winter fishing, the pads like insoles are very good, they absorb moisture :-)
        1. 0
          16 August 2014 22: 51
          You won’t believe it, I know about this method-method of using these with wings, but of course I tried to use them as intended, but oh well this method is also good, they also say that putting them in summer boots helps to put it well. I don’t know. I didn’t try to go in summer in berets. But the very idea of ​​using this device by peasants is already pleasing - we will not be lost !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    3. 0
      17 August 2014 09: 04
      Quote: Fat Fraer
      We do not care

      May it be worse for us, if only our neighbor is not better !!!
  24. 0
    16 August 2014 16: 40
    Think, think and choose the least of the three evils! And think again ...
  25. Fox
    +5
    16 August 2014 16: 44
    I’ve been driving with VAZ cars for 25 years. I’ve driven at least 200 tons. ALWAYS brought them under my own power. .3 (mileage 054t) and 40 (in operation so far, as well as 059t mileage) and Niva-pickupda, the prado office 320.a at the VAZ, except for viburnum and partially priors, nothing was left. Even they ditched their tools and equipment. the workers were kicked out, only the screwdrivers were left.
  26. -3
    16 August 2014 17: 27
    I would still forbid the import of trucks, special equipment and buses from Europe and the United States for a year. It seems to me that this would hurt European manufacturers, for the Russian market is simply absorbing a huge number of trucks, and really helped our Maz, Kamaz, Gas, etc.
  27. +3
    16 August 2014 17: 29
    The main thing is not to forget that many machines and equipment engaged in production in Russia can also be imported. How will things be with the components and spare parts for them?

    It is necessary to produce and develop its own, so as not to think later on how to get around the sanctions and they did not return as a boomerang.

    It is necessary to think, and not to wave a saber.

    As GDP said at a meeting in Yalta:
    We did stupid things in due time, do something else ...
  28. +4
    16 August 2014 17: 48
    MACHINERY SHOULD BE RESTORED, CLOWNS, AND THEN DREAM ABOUT ANOTHER!
    1. +1
      16 August 2014 19: 23
      It is necessary. And who will recover ?? For example, there are two markets on the site of two machine-tool plants in the city of Saratov. so, what is next...... ?????????
      1. +2
        16 August 2014 21: 18
        You think it’s better here in Barnaul, the state should invest, in factories, in research institutes.
  29. +4
    16 August 2014 17: 57
    I honestly do not understand the layouts, what we will remove here, add there and then we will grow together ... This market is extremely complex, multi-level ... How to ban "Americans" if the Canadian monster Magna immediately pops up, which makes all the components and doesn't make cars? Moreover, GAZ has been driving with this MAGNA for 10 years ... KAMAZ with Daimler-Benz carries out restyling and renovations, ban the "Germans", and in a month Dong-Fengi will send KAMAZ to rest for the whole city and with all its subcontractors .. . I don't even know how to stop it ... Moreover, LADA is actually Renault ...
  30. +1
    16 August 2014 18: 04
    the most inadequate drivers on the road are Zhigulists, to see this everyone needs to prove that he is so cool, they climb under the wheels from all sides, especially taxis on the Zhiguli, they can turn from the far left to the right and stop right there, you see the client noticed etc. etc.
    1. +3
      16 August 2014 23: 00
      Quote: saag
      the most inadequate carriers on the road are Zhigulists,
      Five years later, they will ride the Chinese in the same way. It's about people, not cars. hi
      1. 0
        17 August 2014 11: 59
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        It's about people, not cars.

        In people who didn’t have enough for a normal car, but want to show off sooo! So they put on the Zhiguli the most powerful subwoofers and flickers with a huge trumpet!
  31. +6
    16 August 2014 18: 06
    The article once again confirms the old truth, a country with such vastness should have its own mechanical engineering. Domestic products can be scolded as much as you want, it will not get better from this until there is a "feedback" between producers and consumers. And those bold ideas that developers have should appear on the roads, and not remain on paper.
    http://auto.mail.ru/article/43995-5_avtomobilei_kotorye_my_poteryali/
  32. +3
    16 August 2014 18: 13
    The sooner this schizoid circus ends in Ukraine, the faster we forget about various sanctions (including automobile ones)
  33. +1
    16 August 2014 18: 18
    Ukrainian ZAZ goes down in history.
    It seems that the automobile world expects a loss: Zaporizhzhya Automobile Plant stops production and until October 2014 will dismiss all employees. Currently, the Ukrainian company has reduced 21 thousand workers, and some workshops have already been put up for sale. According to the Ukrainian edition of the Voice of Zaporozhye, By the end of July, ZAZ managed to produce only 8 units of cars
  34. +1
    16 August 2014 18: 20
    They ruined their car industry ... now we are thinking about sanctions ...
    I’m a patriot, but I don’t want to have either a VAZ or GAZ
    Another attempt to transfer people to Lada?
    .... ..... .....

    Everyone judges by himself, but where are the judgments from the position of the state? And you forbid me to pick my nose ?!
  35. TIR
    TIR
    -4
    16 August 2014 18: 22
    it’s not clear why this article was written at all)
    if Russians are afraid of losing the market. then why impose sanctions?
  36. +5
    16 August 2014 18: 59
    No one will impose sanctions in the automotive market to anyone, let alone us, and then all the more so as we, who buried all the plants. This is SUPER-disadvantageous to everyone, and absolutely to everyone. Therefore, I think that the article is some kind of game, designed for dancing prices, ratings and other crap. Many analysts and economists develop their theories of the influence of sanctions-counter-sanctions on the phases of the moon. But she both rises and sets, and still does not ask them. Revered, noted, we will know.
  37. +4
    16 August 2014 19: 02
    [/ quote] Then why did the French buy it? They don’t invest money anywhere. stop And VAZ was actively helped to die, and the first persons of our state.
    The approach to our auto industry is initially wrong, here you need to ask one question - is the company profitable or not? If at least a little bit profitable, then in no case should it be bullied or sold abroad. This is a strategic full-cycle enterprise, not a banal "screwdriver" workshop. Moreover, such a giant as AvtoVAZ, which was built by the whole country, and which, in the event of a war, in a week (I don't remember exactly) was reconfigured to produce armored vehicles. [/ Quote]
    Igor, why are you talking about the top officials of the state? On the contrary, since the 90s there has been all sorts of support from the government, subsidies amounted to tens of billions of rubles. And all because the cost of production is almost equal to the price of a car. There is nowhere to raise the price. So can you reduce the cost? Not an enterprise, but some kind of monetary "black hole".
    Remember also concessional lending, a recycling program in exchange for discounts on the purchase of VAZs, and finally the famous advertisement with Putin driving a Kalina when he was prime minister.
    Sorry, but AvtoVAZ was messing around like it was with no one. Well, what's the point?
    And the French are not buying AvtoVAZ, but space and workers. All this can be seen on the example of AZLK. Instead of "Moskvich" was "Logan", demolished all the shops and built everything anew.
    If this happens at AvtoVAZ, then I will only be in favor.
    By the way, regarding the possible release of military equipment. I have the impression that nobody in the Government is concerned about this at all. Otherwise, how to explain the demolition of ZIL workshops in Moscow and the creation of a sports and entertainment complex on this site? They’re getting entertained ... Everyone is in some kind of cloud, and then howl that 2-3 years were not enough to prepare for a serious military conflict. Passed already.
    1. +2
      16 August 2014 19: 43
      Quote: Reserve officer
      Then why did the French buy it?

      As an industrial site for the release of their models, which they do
      1. -1
        17 August 2014 12: 24
        Quote: saag
        As an industrial site for the release of their models, which they do

        And let them do it - OUR workers and engineers will work there and get paid, taxes will go to OUR treasury, OUR people will drive normal cars. What is bad here?
    2. +3
      16 August 2014 22: 22
      Quote: Reserve officer
      Igor, why are you talking about the first persons of the state? On the contrary, from the side of the Government since the 90s there has been every kind of support,
      Alexei, I live in Tolyatti, I know everything first hand. The help you are talking about is fiction. They gave it with one hand, took it with two. This includes stock fraud. The grants were either write-offs of tax debts or payment of meaningless contracts. On the eve of the sale of a controlling stake in AvtoVAZ, the state gave VAZ a subsidy for the purchase of the Renault Logan platform. The point is to pay the French for the platform on the eve of the sale of the enterprise as a whole to them?
      And GDP came on the eve of the factory’s sale twice in half a year, and personally attended negotiations with Renault representatives.
      Quote: Reserve officer
      Remember also concessional lending, a recycling program in exchange for discounts on the purchase of VAZs, and finally the famous advertisement with Putin driving a Kalina when he was prime minister.

      The banal rise in the rating and the price of the plant before sale.
      Quote: Reserve officer
      And the French are not buying AvtoVAZ, but space and workers. All this can be seen on the example of AZLK. Instead of "Moskvich" was "Logan", demolished all the shops and built everything anew.
      If this happens at AvtoVAZ, then I will only be in favor.
      You are mistaken. If they were interested in squares and hands, they would build a plant from scratch, land and new buildings would be cheaper. And here they remove the main competitor, absorbing it. VAZ has auto sales in Russia at a level that is still unattainable for all automakers.
      Regarding "I'll be glad" - well, rejoice, they are already reconstructing the workshops for a Nissan and Renault screwdriver. But instead of installing automatic welding lines, they put banal tables (beds) for manual welding with pliers. But our welding lines (which no, but automatic lines, in places even Kawasaki robots) have already been dismantled. hi
    3. 0
      17 August 2014 12: 20
      Quote: Reserve officer
      from the side of the Government since the 90s there has been every kind of support, subsidies amounted to tens of billions of rubles.

      And how many vbuhali "Moskvich" and where are these vaunted "Princes", and where is the plant ??? Reanimating a hopelessly ill production is a waste of money!
    4. +1
      17 August 2014 15: 25
      VAZ in the early 90s completely robbed the government, under the pretext of incomplete
      tax was withdrawn all working capital. Then they figured out but the train
      already gone. The plant miraculously survived. Now the French are quietly ruining him. Let
      goats in the garden.
  38. +1
    16 August 2014 19: 37
    Well, how small the children are. Who applies sanctions to whom? EU, USA, Japan to Russia? Type we will not sell to you? For God's sake! The only question is how much you will endure from your own prohibitions.
    No, then, of course, change your mind. And here an interesting question arises. On what conditions will you deliver your hanger?
    1. 0
      17 August 2014 12: 29
      Quote: EvilCat
      On what conditions will you deliver your hanger?

      At the expense of KOLYMAG, are you clearly excited or a lover of domestic antiques? However, as the janitor Tikhon said: "To whom the mare has a bride ..."
  39. Valentine77 64
    +1
    16 August 2014 19: 57
    I for x ... the western auto industry. There is Kalina and I am very pleased with her. And who wants a lot of comfort - let him overpay on the black market. Ford jobs in Russia will disappear, but will appear elsewhere. Specialists are needed everywhere. Regions need to be developed, but not the center. So specialists are welcome to visit us on the Volga-Mother, or for the Ural-Batyushka, or Amur-Batyushka.
  40. +3
    16 August 2014 20: 17
    Quote: saag
    Quote: Reserve officer
    Then why did the French buy it?

    As an industrial site for the release of their models, which they do

    I just answered this question, in the same comment. "Why did the French buy it" are not my words. Just some kind of quoting glitch.
    In general, I just do not understand - really, in Russia, they cannot make a normal passenger car of their own design? Indeed, at one time the M-20 "Pobeda" and the M-21 "Volga" were the best machines in their class. The first prizes at the International Motor Shows, and even the scandals with staff members who tried to prove that it was their development.
    After all, there was a school.
    1. +1
      17 August 2014 15: 33
      You forgot to add Niva to your list.
  41. +5
    16 August 2014 20: 47
    The same KAMAZ is struggling to prevent the import of special equipment or heavy trucks from China to Russia. Because it immediately stops the sale of its products
    Here it would be better for the KAMAZ residents to be silent. Designer hand-clasped, this is how many years they release buckets with bolts. And we are still full-time employees (behavior), we are indignant, that Kamaz is pissing in their eyes and they are dew of God. They seriously believe that they make cars ... laughing .Well, on Kamaz along the 800 km highway, in what form do you crawl out of it? Or career equipment, KAMAZ is a laborer of disabled people who drove. And even poor Chinese are two orders of magnitude better than Kamaz. Now Kamaz residents will be mined, but the truth must be looked into the eyes. Kamaz is not a car but a mockery of common sense. That's where the sanctions hit, so it is in the truck industry. It will be bad on the track without Mans, Merses, Volvo, Scania and Dafa. Our drivers (professionals), of course, will be able to withstand camouflage. Well, if the KAMAZ people had heard how many affectionate words drove about them on the highway, they would have died out from hiccups a long time ago. And it’s not necessary about economical difficulties, how many years they’ve been letting this out .... without changes, something new is just a mockery, a lot of money. With disrespect to the workers of the allegedly Kamaz automobile plant, a driver with a 30-year-old professional with the same title.
    1. wanderer_032
      +4
      16 August 2014 21: 03
      Quote: tundra
      And even poor Chinese are two orders of magnitude better than KAMAZ


      The Chinese are no better, the same bucket, only in a different wrapper. I worked on the HOWO-290 and I know what I'm talking about. Old KAMAZ 55111, although they were buckets, they are simpler and more durable. And with spare parts is easier for them.
      1. +1
        16 August 2014 22: 33
        I don’t argue about the Chinese. Well damn the living conditions in the cockpit, in the KAMAZ they are simply absent. I’m not talking about Europeans, I just don’t imagine how I can live 20-25 days in KAMAZ. I recall Putin’s conversation with truckers on the Far Eastern highway, his question to the KAMAZ director and the answer of this snitch. Yes, during Stalin’s time, for his labor exploits he would have already felled a forest in Kolyma.
    2. 0
      17 August 2014 12: 37
      Quote: tundra
      , how many years have been releasing this at .... al, and without change,

      And how growls and thunders - you can not confuse anything! Well in a career where, but in the city? There are also LIAZ buses, you might think there is a dvigun directly welded to the body - vibration and noise are such that it is difficult to talk in the cabin!
  42. DMB-88
    -2
    16 August 2014 21: 29
    Not far from Rostov, the people die every day !!!!, and then sanctions ...., the auto industry .....-- a dull gauno !!!
    1. -1
      17 August 2014 12: 39
      Come out! Here the theme is different!
      1. DMB-88
        -1
        17 August 2014 12: 43
        Quote: Bayonet
        Come out! Here the theme is different!


        and you, on this topic, what a clever thread said?
        so redneck one)))
        1. 0
          17 August 2014 13: 31
          Quote: DMB-88
          and you, on this topic, what a clever thread said?

          I can repeat it again!
          1. DMB-88
            -1
            17 August 2014 13: 36
            Quote: Bayonet
            Quote: DMB-88
            and you, on this topic, what a clever thread said?

            I can repeat it again!


            The next hfp? wassat
            1. 0
              17 August 2014 15: 42
              Quote: DMB-88
              The next hfp?

              Not ham, I didn’t drink vodka with you! am
              1. DMB-88
                0
                17 August 2014 16: 01
                Quote: Bayonet
                Not ham, I didn’t drink vodka with you!


                this I am on "leave" flared up))))))
                okay, don't be angry)))))
          2. DMB-88
            -1
            17 August 2014 13: 42
            Quote: Bayonet
            I can repeat it again!


            you better write off whether mushrooms have gone in your area, otherwise we don’t have any Kh.r.e.a and we are worried)))
            or does the fish bite? I caught yesterday! and on what in the forest or on the river to get completely on the drum, believe me !!!
            1. DMB-88
              0
              17 August 2014 13: 57
              Well, where are you Bayonet? fell asleep or what? crying
              1. 0
                17 August 2014 15: 41
                Quote: DMB-88
                Well, where are you Bayonet? fell asleep or what?

                I can’t sit all day at the computer, especially - a day off. People catch fish, and mushrooms - what mushrooms in Rostov?
                1. DMB-88
                  0
                  17 August 2014 15: 59
                  Quote: Bayonet
                  Quote: DMB-88
                  Well, where are you Bayonet? fell asleep or what?

                  I can’t sit all day at the computer, especially - a day off. People catch fish, and mushrooms - what mushrooms in Rostov?


                  Hello Rostov! A good city!!!
                  successful fishing, write about the results! drinks
                  1. 0
                    17 August 2014 16: 13
                    Quote: DMB-88
                    Hello Rostov! A good city!!!

                    Thank! I'm not a fan at all, but two from work are avid! Caught constantly. You need to take pictures, look - there are such big things! drinks
                    1. DMB-88
                      0
                      17 August 2014 16: 28
                      Quote: Bayonet
                      Thank! I'm not a fan at all, but two from work are avid! Caught constantly. You need to take pictures, look - there are such big things!


                      Of course I’ll look with pleasure, you get knocking in PM!)))
                      and I’ll send you dried mushrooms, treat neighbors with soup)))
                      1. 0
                        17 August 2014 17: 58
                        Thank ! Good luck smile
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                      3. 0
                        18 August 2014 21: 09
                        Hello! Photos in PM does not accept. These come across skillful!
                      4. DMB-88
                        0
                        19 August 2014 12: 21
                        good !!!!!!! By the way, Don begins with us, so it's almost fellow countrymen!
  43. +1
    16 August 2014 21: 57
    Quote: Fat frayer
    About combed the people, and then you give sanctions and stuff .. saber mahuna. And there will be no Osram bulbs, but plumbing taps. Even pads with wings and toilet paper.
    But we still will not give up.
    We do not care.

    Perhaps you have all of the above, only imported. Yes, it will be bad for you in case of sanctions. We have Brest bulbs in Belarus, toilet paper from Borisov, water taps are also local (I’m sorry, I didn’t save the price tag, I can’t name the manufacturer). But I'm not interested in gaskets, yes.
    PS As for the article, I fully support the domestic manufacturer and go to work at MAZ (bus);)
    1. +2
      16 August 2014 22: 39
      By the way, about cranes, switches, etc. trivia household. Recently I was looking for a chandelier so that the mount was like by Soviet guests, I could hardly find it, my legs were worn out. Again the same sockets and it’s impossible to tear on them without tears, but the beautiful system of fastening the wires sucks. What prevents us from doing both beautifully and reliably?
      1. 0
        17 August 2014 12: 47
        Quote: tundra
        What prevents us from doing both beautifully and reliably?

        Fools and roads!
      2. 0
        17 August 2014 15: 38
        Sockets buy only Belarusian.
    2. 0
      17 August 2014 12: 42
      Quote: Mentor
      I go to work at MAZ (bus);)

      MAZ can not be compared with LIAZ - better. The seats would only be better - in hot summers you will sit on plastic and your pants are wet smileWe now have +37 - 38!
  44. 0
    16 August 2014 22: 00
    Dear!
    I don’t understand something, have they already imposed sanctions on the auto industry or is someone (other than the author of the article) willing to do this? Or what other sanctions is going to introduce?
    Today, WE ALL live in the UNITED ECONOMIC SPACE and this was precisely what was announced by imposing sanctions in the Russian agro-industry (they just do not understand the words - that is why I had to Bark publicly!)
    WE ARE ALL INTERDEPENDENT! And therefore we need to AGREEMENT, and not to fight, not to try to prove "who is on top." Remember the saying: "The bug is small and smelly!"

    Try to look at the WORLD, our civilization, if you want, with different eyes, a little different from what you were taught at school: elementary, secondary, higher, academy ... Look at US not as a crown of nature, but as its natural component (far not the best), and try to determine our place in this WORLD.

    Good luck;)
  45. +3
    16 August 2014 22: 25
    For some reason, the terrible government of the Russian Federation will not be able to implement for a foreign automaker. But it can push for an increase in Russian localization in products for those already invested. Those. to get more investment, and to increase the share of the manufacturing sector in the economy under the ongoing kipish is a noble cause.
  46. +3
    16 August 2014 23: 04
    Why do states need normal presidents? They and these for the head ...
  47. +2
    16 August 2014 23: 07
    Putting pressure on the import car industry to increase localization in Russia is a correct and far-sighted policy. Let them invest in our industry. These are the right investments, not stock "bubbles" here today and there tomorrow.
  48. +5
    16 August 2014 23: 13
    Believe it or not. But I like the Volga-31, and not at all because of patriotism. (I can quite afford some last trade wind or audyuhu 6) I just like how it takes our roads, the rear axle, a soft car, my height is excellent - I sit in a "chair", and it is quite reliable, if you "tune" and follow. For 100 km from the service, a foreign car will become - tryndets, "drop the gun and come up as soon as possible" - mosquitoes seize and it's already dark. smile . And at least henna, tinker with it for an hour (if the brain is present) and go!
    It’s a pity that they didn’t bring to mind ..
    From Kiev to Yamal and back - without a single breakdown. Filter, good gasoline and oil, and more than 120 km \ hour can not be driven.
  49. Mih
    0
    16 August 2014 23: 24
    Quote: Lelek
    But hitting "McDonald's", "Pepsi" and "Coca" would be very sensitive for our sworn friend, at the same time they would preserve the health of young people.

    And I don’t understand at all the mo ... s who drink Pepsi Coca-Cola. laughing
    To drink such Hu ..., I do not understand these people from whom it was possible to make nails (Mayakovsky) request In childhood, well, in adolescence, when the first protest mood appeared, which was unfounded, poems appeared - don’t go to school, drink Coca-Cola children. Do not go to the classroom, your phantom teacher. Everything went like smoke from apple trees (Perefraz Yesenina).
    I tried both Coke and Pepsi even earlier than .. But a complete ha .. - Lady Gaga, I would say all this. Here is the kvass that was in the USSR - a class !!! drinks
    1. +1
      16 August 2014 23: 37
      For a long time, the USA sought the recipe for "Tarhun" from the USSR. FIG-you.
      Now we drink chemistry.
  50. Mih
    0
    16 August 2014 23: 45
    Quote: DMB-88
    Not far from Rostov, the people die every day !!!!, and then sanctions ...., the auto industry .....-- a dull gauno !!!

    On earth, the whole human race is honored by one holy idol - it reigns over the entire universe.
    People die for metal - Satan rules the ball there (Gounod “Faust”)
    I've watched the Largus - a very worthy and multi-functional machine.
    Yes, plastic .., and many more questions, but the device is quite worthy to deliver the ass from point A to point B. Of course, for snobs, (a snob is not a nobility, but claims to be aristocracy) this is not a machine, but ... love
    1. Mih
      0
      17 August 2014 01: 30
      I realized - in Murza’s uzaite and you have a brick. Snob, read in the English transcription - you will understand everything, you will find out for yourself. I wish you all exclusive (purple socks laughing )
    2. 0
      17 August 2014 12: 52
      Quote: Mih
      I've watched the Largus - a very worthy and multi-functional machine.

      For an economic person - the device is what you need, or a large family - to rest, to the cottage. In general, a good and necessary car, and the base is the good old Logan, simple, reliable and unpretentious! good
  51. 0
    16 August 2014 23: 58
    Until the dashing 90s, UVZ, in accordance with its name, also produced cars, in particular tanks for transporting LNG; similar production was also in Germany. With the beginning of privatization, by the mid-90s they managed to reduce this production to the production of bowls and spoons, and then closed it down. As a result, the Germans became a monopolist in the production of tanks. And our tanks were exported no worse than tanks and were quite competitive with the German ones."


    There are plenty of railway tanks for the foreign market!
    1. UralTrans LLC, Chelyabinsk
    2. OJSC "UralVagonZapchast", Yekaterinburg
    Delivery territory:
    Russian Federation: Central, Northwestern, Volga, Southern, Ural, Siberian, Far Eastern
    EurAsEC: Tajikistan, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan
    Other countries: Azerbaijan, Spain, Ukraine, Germany, Finland, Mexico, China, Moldova, Armenia, India, Netherlands, Turkey, Italy, UK, USA, Switzerland, Poland, Belgium, Greece
  52. Mih
    0
    17 August 2014 01: 26
    Quote: sabakina
    You have strange humor ...

    Humor is actually a subjective concept. There are Polish, English and Russian. But American humor is something in between English and African, just like American cars. Therefore, everyone has a different assessment of the driving performance of vehicles - what should you pay attention to? Otherwise, the blonde, well... lol
    1. 0
      17 August 2014 12: 54
      Quote: Mih
      . But American humor is something

      This is when it's a cake in the face! And the cars are not bad, big and powerful!
  53. Mih
    0
    17 August 2014 01: 35
    Quote: Waterfowl
    Who are these ordinary citizens who ride a Mercier, Ford, Audi .......?

    These are servants of the people - managers who sell a pack of pasta around and call it business (bisi, translated from English, business. Cosa Nostra, from Italian, our business). Something like that. laughing
  54. +3
    17 August 2014 03: 56
    Quote: Armagedon
    There are no fools in the Kremlin... They have calculated everything!!!


    Yah?

    So right away, purely offhand:
    1) The other day, one bureaucrat blurted out on TV that before the sanctions, it turns out that our food production was being screwed around by all sorts of authorities regarding certification, papers, “dirty tiles on the floor,” etc. and so on. And at the same time, frankly dangerous food products from the EU and the USA (stuffed with anabolic steroids and chemicals from Bush's legs) were brought into the country. That is, our manufacturer is being bullied by Russian bureaucrats in all the cracks, and the Western one has a green light in our country. What do you think this is? If not stupidity, then sabotage, paid for by the West.

    2) And again (albeit off topic) I’ll remind you about the teacher who was shot by a 16-year-old maniac. Guys, why does he need the Order of Courage? He was JUST STUPIDLY SHOOT! What feat did he accomplish? For some reason, the USSR was smart enough not to give the Hero of the Soviet Union to the victims of Chikatillo.
    So there is no need to talk about “the Kremlin knows what they are doing.” Someone, of course, knows and loves Russia. But 90% are either complete downs or outright pests. And no need for rose-colored glasses. I am a patriot of Russia. But he is by no means a patriot of Russian bureaucrats and “Ylitarievs”
  55. +1
    17 August 2014 07: 19
    Quote: Barsik
    53-Sciborskiy so who the hell do you need is a fucking fucker)
    and change your profile picture then) Warriors do not run away)

    You think narrowly, comrade. What's so evil? I will tear my throat for my homeland. I'm a warrior, I'm not going to change my avatar. If you don’t understand something, it’s better to remain silent. angry
  56. +2
    17 August 2014 13: 06
    It's all sad. It would be a shame if Americans were banned from importing and selling. Still, such a good rest for the driver. like American trucks, no European can provide. In the American behind the driver. is small. cozy room. with all the necessary things for relaxation. Some options include a toilet and shower. I’m not worried about passenger cars; there’s something to replace them with. It’s also bad that they want to ban foreign special equipment. For example, foreign asphalt pavers. (not the Chinese and Koreans.) lay the asphalt using satellite navigation. Deviation from design marks, no more than 1 cm!!!!! Our special equipment and tractors are simply terrible. The designers of the jackals should be imprisoned. into this technique. what they invented, and will make you work for another year. yes in SIBERIA. Then maybe these little shits would start moving.
    1. +1
      17 August 2014 13: 36
      Quote: Free Wind
      The designers of the jackals should be imprisoned. into this technique. what they invented, and will make you work for another year. yes in SIBERIA

      Or in the South, where in the shade it’s below 40! And there is no shadow on the road!
      1. 0
        17 August 2014 16: 32
        And in Siberia, people are suffering from the heat...
  57. DMB-88
    +1
    17 August 2014 13: 34
    The thread is about nothing!!!
    Does anyone seriously think that the import of imported automobiles will be banned?
    this will NEVER happen as long as there is a state in this form! The state has a lot of money in the form of duties and is unlikely to give it up!
    Further, if this does happen, it will only be at the state level, i.e. government procurement is for bureaucrats, and as for private procurement, there will be no restrictions! and no one will ban either new cars or imported second-hand goods, the bourgeoisie will trample on any principles for the sake of profit!
    Now about the dispute about the domestic auto industry: THERE IS NO DOMESTIC AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY!!! (there is no need to provide evidence, they are obvious!) therefore, since there is no subject, there are no disputes!
    And the chatter of schoolgirls about the color and stuffing of a four-wheeled horse can be easily read on glamorous car websites!
    Didn't mean to offend anyone! Thank you all for the reasoned disadvantages!
    I would advise anonymous people to learn the materiel! hi
  58. +1
    17 August 2014 16: 16
    sanctions on potatoes and other food nonsense are one thing, and the amounts there are not large (against the background of the state, of course) I think common sense will prevail and no one will get into the mechanical engineering industry!!
  59. 0
    17 August 2014 20: 34
    Quote: Bayonet
    Quote: Mentor
    I go to work at MAZ (bus);)

    MAZ can not be compared with LIAZ - better. The seats would only be better - in hot summers you will sit on plastic and your pants are wet smileWe now have +37 - 38!

    You probably have new models. In our city there are still old ones with leatherette-covered seats. And about the heat, I sympathize, in Mozyr the heat only recently subsided, otherwise they had already set a record for the republic, 35,6 °C.
  60. 0
    17 August 2014 21: 01
    Quote: Letun
    Quote: 41 REGION
    But in practice, the right-handed Japanese show themselves much better than the same left-handed bought in the cabin and assembled at our factory hi

    I xs, of course, the felt-tip pens have different tastes and colors, but personally, I always thought that only a sick person can buy right-hand drive in a country with right-hand traffic. Sorry if I offended anyone, but I think that security is much more important than goleted show-offs.

    The one who says that is sick in the head. It turns out that YOU, alas, but this is so. You are already talking about taste and color. My steering wheel! my right. I’ve driven all my adult life only with right-hand drive, and ugh three times, not a single accident. Before this, the experience was with the 9th model of the domestic automobile industry, miraculously we survived, and nothing has happened since then. And about Europe!? Well, screw them, we are not so poor that we spend 100 or even more rubles a year just for diagnostics. You, young check, apparently have not been to countries like India, etc. That's where the steering wheel is - this is very important)).
  61. 0
    17 August 2014 23: 49
    We drive the Lada Largus and rejoice. Before that there was Renault. And I actually drove a V5 for 2 years - there is no better car! My husband kept whining at Renault that his leg hurt, I thought, what could cause the pain? As soon as I sat down, and the pedal was so light that I had to hold my foot with effort so that I didn’t put pressure on the gas, I drove it a couple of times and decided that my legs were really going to hurt. And at eight, my foot was resting on the gas pedal, lying down, you pressed it a little and it flew. And she rushed like she did up the mountains on the rise, accelerating from 5 to XNUMX speed - that’s eight!
    It seems to me that it’s the same with cars and with cosmetics, everything seems to be better from abroad.
  62. 0
    18 August 2014 18: 52
    But I can’t understand, bro, it seems like we have talented designers, they draw excellent cars for Renault and Opel, etc., and there are smart engineers, but for some reason there is no breakthrough in the auto industry. Somehow strange, as if it was intended that way.

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