In the 2017, the development of a MiG-31 replacement will begin.

In 2017, Russian specialists will start working on the creation of a promising long-range interceptor system to replace the MiG-31 interceptor fighter, RIA reports "News" With reference to the head of the Russian Air Force, Colonel-General Viktor Bondarev.

“With the 2017 of the year, we are starting to work on a promising long-range intercept aviation system that will replace the MiG-31,” said Bondarev.

According to him, in the 2017 year, research work will be launched to create the look of the future aircraft, and then development work will begin. Deliveries of new items to the troops are planning to start in 2025 year.

Comments

[Giant thought]

Well, well, we wish our designers that they will have another masterpiece, envy of all enemies.

[Cormorants]

Great news! +100500

[DVxa]

A masterpiece is not needed. All Soviet-made equipment had tremendous potential for the future .. Add modern electronics, improve engines a bit, and everything .. This machine has more than one record in aviation and replacement is not always good if modernization is still possible .. Good luck anyway!

[DMB87]

A masterpiece is not needed

Handsome man

[SOF]

This bird is a masterpiece. The world's only (after Baty’s 25th) serial hypersonic heavy long-range interceptor, making three swoops and having a phased array, in a group of four, able to control a thousand km front and simultaneously attack, if my memory serves me right, sixteen goals (group - I repeat).
P.S. Sorry, in advance, if wedged, but did not stand in line.

[GSH-18]

The complete replacement of the MiG-31 with the newest long-range interceptor is long overdue. I am not a pilot, if any of the knowledgeable, please clarify why such interceptors are needed in the conditions of the newest layered air defense, armed with supersonic missiles. Also, now there are airborne supersonic missiles (which were not in the days of the USSR) of the far zone, which can be "suspended" for example on the Su-35 or on the T-50 ?? As far as I know, the MiG-31, apart from high speed, does not have any advantages over modern front-line aircraft of the 4 ++ and 5 generation!

[gregor6549]

I already wrote in the previous topic about MIG31, but I repeat again.
MIG31 had a unique opportunity to create a single radar field with a group of the same aircraft and exchange data with each other and with the Earth on detected and tracked targets. A sort of distributed in the space AWACS. Only if after AWACS is inundated, which is not difficult in principle, a huge hole will appear in the unified field of detection and control of NATO aviation, the restoration of which will take a decent time, then in the case of MIG31 the situation is more advantageous. Firstly, it is more difficult to knock it down and it is possible to quickly replace a failed one. Moved the system more tightly and order. Of course, the MIG31 does not have a circular view, but for the distant interceptor it was not a greyhound and needed.
At the time, on the basis of the MIG31, two very serious aircraft weapon systems were developed. One for detecting and intercepting cruise missiles and the second for destroying enemy satellites. Both weapon systems passed comprehensive tests and proved their high efficiency. Replacing these weapons using other aircraft platforms is not at all easy, if at all possible.
And the last thing. Covering the entire airspace over the USSR with the detection fields of ground-based radars and the zones of their destruction provided by ground-based air defense systems was unrealistic then, it is unrealistic to ensure this now over all of Russia. It was to close these holes that MIG 31 was created and before it TU128. But if TU128 was a lone wolf, then MIG31 looked very good in a "pack". Therefore, MIG31 is indispensable now, and only something similar to it, independent of ground air defense systems and capable of independent hunting, both alone and in a flock, can replace it in the future.

[Altona]

And this is all you listed in order to plug the location "holes" in our North and create at least some controlled airspace ...

[GSH-18]

Quote: gregor6549

MIG31 had a unique opportunity to create a single radar field in a group of the same aircraft and to exchange data with each other and with the Earth on detected and followed targets

This concept has long been implemented on tactical aircraft since generation 4+

Quote: gregor6549

And the last one. It was unrealistic to block all airspace over the USSR with the detection fields of ground-based radars and the zones of their destruction provided by ground-based air defense systems then, it was unrealistic to ensure this now over all of Russia.

Oh oh ?!
Have you heard about the new Voronezh radar stations?
Most of them have already been commissioned. And so they are just called to form a single field over the Russian Federation, and not only over the Russian Federation.
The latest evidence of the highest efficiency of these state-of-the-art air and space control centers was the detection of a missile launch in the Mediterranean. Discovered the station "Voronezh" location: Russia, Krasnodar Territory, Armavir.
This is me to the fact that you should not hold on to Soviet concepts of building air defense based on the Mig-31. These concepts, like the plane (including the glider), are long outdated.

[gregor6549]

I heard about Voronezh, and not only about them. And not only heard but also had a direct relationship to them. But the tasks of Voronezh and the like are work in early warning systems for aerospace targets, and work in certain sectors. A circular review in such radars was not provided, and the accuracy of the determination of coordinates provided by similar radars, plus or minus the bast shoe. Those. for an early warning of an air attack, they are still somehow suitable, but they cannot replace traditional circular and sector-based radars like those used in such air defense systems as S300, S400 and the like. Again, reconnaissance and destruction of such stationary targets as VORonezh radar is not difficult. Again, there isn’t enough money to place С300 and С400 throughout Russia. This is not only equipment, but also military units with housing, all associated infrastructure, schools, kindergartens, etc. Therefore, those who were responsible and responsible for the organization of air defense / aerospace defense mills tried and are trying to integrate heterogeneous detection tools whenever possible as well as active means (radar, satellites, air defense systems, fighters, etc.).

[GSH-18]

Quote: gregor6549

Those. for an early warning of an air attack, they are still somehow suitable, but they cannot replace traditional circular and sector-based radars like those used in air defense systems like C300, C400 and the like. Again, reconnaissance and destruction of such stationary targets as VORonezh radar is not difficult.

Like airbases based Mig-31
Only here, for example, the Armavir "Voronezh" has a base with a MiG-29 and Sushki near the Air Force. Therefore, it is difficult to classify it as an easy target.
Ha! According to this air defense and layered.
1. Fixation of launch (target detection) "Voronezh"
2. Target designation for S-400 (detection range of 600 km, range of destruction of 400 km)
3. Destruction of the target

Now we look at what will happen with the participation of Mig-31
1. Target detection depends on the location of the aircraft in the detection area
2. Destruction of the target is limited by the range of interceptor missiles (approximately 160km).

Now estimate based on the coverage area of ​​the corresponding radar
the required number of mig-31 and Voronezh and S-400
Voronezh needs 5-6 units for the whole country
The S-400 is much smaller (in any situation) than the Mig-31, including airfields, personnel, hangar depots and other materiel.
Draw your own conclusions.

[222222]

GSh-18 (1) RU Today, 15:33 ↑ Voronezh needs 5-6 stations for the whole country ...... "
1. "Voronezh-M" in the village of Lekhtusi, Leningrad Region (object 4524, military unit 73845, coordinates: 60 ° 16′31 ″ north latitude 30 ° 32′45 ″ east
2. "Voronezh-DM" in Armavir, Krasnodar Territory (object 1653, military unit 41003, coordinates: 44.92533 ° N, 40.98396 ° E
3. "Voronezh-DM" in the city of Pionersky, Kaliningrad region (object 2461, military unit 42988).
4. "Voronezh-M" in the area of ​​the city of Usolye-Sibirsky, Irkutsk Region (object 1944, item 77Я6-VP).
5. "Voronezh-DM", at the end of December 2012, construction began in the area of ​​the village of Ust-Kem in the Yenisei region of the Krasnoyarsk Territory, construction completion - before the end of 2014.
6. Voronezh-DM, in June 2013 it is planned to begin construction in the area of ​​the Konyukhi dacha village near Barnaul in the Altai Territory, the completion date is until the end of 2014.
7. Voronezh-M, August 13, 2013, construction began in Orsk, Orenburg Region.
8. "Voronezh- ...", construction began in the area of ​​the city of Vorkuta,
9. The plans provide for the construction of a station in the Omsk region.

It was also planned as possible places:

10. "Voronezh-VP", it is planned to build in the area of ​​the city of Pechora of the Komi Republic to replace the radar Pechora type "Daryal".
11. Voronezh-VP, it is planned to build in the Olenegorsk city of the Murmansk region to replace the Dniester-type radars.
(from wikipedia)
... your plan is 150 percent complete !!!

[GSH-18]

Quote: 222222

your plan is 150 percent complete

This is not my plan. And its overfulfillment (as you said) is very pleasing! Much more than a possible resumption of production of obsolete mig-31
Now our sky is under reliable control!

[Starley from the south]

The air defense system must be comprehensive, the loss of one link, for example, interceptor fighters, will create vulnerabilities. After all, nothing is perfect. Click on "Striking force" in Yandex and read about the MIG-31, a lot may become clear for you.

[volodyk50]

Firstly, today the MiG-31 is the only aircraft capable of independently using long-range missiles.

Secondly, a group of four MiG-31 aircraft is capable of controlling airspace with a length along the 800 — 900 km front.

Thirdly, on a modernized MiG-31BM aircraft using Zaslon-M radar, the maximum detection range of air targets was increased to 320 km, defeats to 280 km, it is not available to any other fighter.

Regarding the radar, ask yourself what hole the Chelyabinsk meteorite flew into?

[GSH-18]

Quote: volodyk50

Regarding the radar, ask yourself what hole the Chelyabinsk meteorite flew into?

Well, why didn’t he be discovered by such a wonderful instant-31 ???

[Starley from the south]

Are you pretending to be an army general?

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: volodyk50

Firstly, today the MiG-31 is the only aircraft capable of independently using long-range missiles.

You are a little wrong. RVV-DB is currently undergoing tests, it can be launched not only from the Mig-31 but also from aircraft of the Su-35 / 30 and PAK FA family.

Quote: volodyk50

Thirdly, on a modernized MiG-31BM aircraft using Zaslon-M radar, the maximum range of detection of air targets was increased to 320 km, defeats to 280 km, this is not available to any other fighter.

Who told you that?
1) There is no such concept - "detection of air targets at a distance of 320 km." There is a concept of detecting an air target with a specific RCS. Because one and the same radar will detect a B-52 strategic bomber with an RCS of 100 square meters at the same distance, but a fighter with an RCS of 3-5 square meters is much less.
2) These data are classified - what we have, what they have. Mostly ordinary people are forced to rely on advertising data.
3) There is evidence that the Su-35 "irbis" can see the target at 350-400 km. What is the ESR? In what conditions and mode? Who knows.
4) Hit the target on 280 km Mig-31 can not well, that's nothing. At least because the P-33 has a range of up to 160 km.

[swan]

4) Hit the target on 280 km Mig-31 can not well, that's nothing. At least because the P-33 has a range of up to 160 km.

P-37? Yes, there were only 2 launches, and the product was still in testing (and, probably, it will be replaced with a more modern version). But this is the maximum range for explosives and it was tested only on the MIG-31.

[tomket]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

You are a little wrong. RVV-DB is currently undergoing tests, it can be launched not only from the Mig-31 but also from aircraft of the Su-35 / 30 and PAK FA family.

And how many of these same missiles and T-50 are now in the army? But in the distant future, the sky will plow ..... in your opinion something like this.

[Igool]

Do not throw off the anti-satellite component of this defense project. Fighting satellites in low orbits is its main advantage.
Secondly, not all aircraft violators are subject to immediate destruction, for this they also use interceptors. To intercept and force out the same civilian side, the S-400 is not able to.
This interceptor has a lot of responsibilities and opportunities that are not able to fulfill the same missile systems.
Defense really needs to be comprehensive, and such an interceptor is vital for us.

[FID]

Quote: GSH-18

This concept has long been implemented on tactical aircraft since generation 4+

Excuse me, generously, what are you talking about "tactical aircraft of generation 4+"? I must be very far behind life.

[GSH-18]

Quote: SSI

Excuse me, generously, what are you talking about "tactical aircraft of generation 4+"? I must be very far behind life.

For example, Su-34, Su-35, and later upgraded versions.
Features 4+
High maneuverability or over-maneuverability
Passive or Active Phased Array Radars
Reduced operating costs
Multifunctionality
Glass cabin
Reduced EPR through the use of radar absorbing materials and coatings
Ability to fly at supersonic speed without using afterburner (only Su-35S, Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon with a minimum number of external suspensions)
Application of a deflected engine thrust vector
Aerodynamic design "Duck"

[FID]

Quote: GSH-18

For example, Su-34

Well, Su-34, I understand, but Su-35 .... is a front-line fighter? I read your comments and I get the impression that aviation is not needed at all. Air defense is enough of an air defense system, instead of various machines adapted for certain purposes, a certain UNIVERSAL machine is enough ... A station wagon is not capable of efficiently and well performing NARROW tasks. Understanding of this arises all over the world. And then, supersonic without afterburner is a panacea for everything? Supersound is bad. The Kyrgyz Republic flies around and around ... Somehow such thoughts arise in me, forgive me of the old ...

[GSH-18]

Quote: SSI

I read your comments and I get the impression that aviation is not needed at all.

NOT THE CORRECT CONCLUSION! Aviation in the modern world is extremely important and necessary.

Quote: SSI

Station wagon is not able to efficiently and well perform NARROW tasks.

A station wagon, in this case, an airplane, is just an interceptor missile carrier. And its versatility is only a plus! A more universal and new radar (AFAR, a huge number of tracking targets, automated control) is better than what was installed on the Mig-31 in the 80s, but you will not argue with this? Reduced EPR, and generally wide opportunity to respond to the rapidly changing situation of air combat!

Quote: SSI

And then, supersonic without afterburner is a panacea for everything? Supersound is bad. KR fly with sound and with an envelope ..

This is not a panacea - this is one of the possibilities of generations 4 ++ and 5! For example, Sushki and T-50 can conduct low-speed (relatively) over-maneuverable air combat. MiG-31 cannot do this. By the fact that supersonic Soviet aircraft have a lower flight speed limit. I'm silent about maneuverability.
As for cruise missiles, I don’t see any problems here at all! Suspend a missile interceptor on the Su-35, and a couple of programs in the on-board computer (the specialists know what else to imprison there). What is not an interceptor?
Why upgrade an old airplane to occupy airfields under it when 4 ++ and 5 will cope with its tasks ???

[Starley from the south]

Listen, your last name is not Khrushchev? Not? Only he, like you, claimed that we most needed rockets, everything else in FIG is not necessary!

[tomket]

and if Voronezh is torn by the Tomahawk? Everything? covered the field?

[GSH-18]

Quote: tomket

and if Voronezh is torn by the Tomahawk? Everything? covered the field?

And if the airfield with instant-31 is torn by Tomahawk ??
Let's go without the "if"!
Moreover, the airfield is much more vulnerable. CVKK are not on the periphery, Tomogavk whether they lie will fly there. And the cover there is not frail.

[Iline]

Guys. I understand that many of those present here on aviation are judged by Internet data. In life, everything is more complicated. There is such a thing as combat use of aviation. It describes the role of all types of aircraft. Long-range interceptors intercept targets on long-range approaches without coming into direct contact. But with the erupted just working very brisk and fast. If they work for long-range interceptors, then they simply will not have time to fight against the erupted targets (preparation for the second flight, no one canceled it).
Further. In the threatened period, aviation units are relocated in small groups to operational aerodromes and it is very difficult to destroy them all at once, unlike stationary targets. once again about universality. It was such at the time the MiG-27, a fighter-bomber. So what? It turned out not a fighter, nor a bomber. Always treated with a good degree of skepticism to such trends. After all, training programs for fighter pilots and bomber pilots are radically different. And combining on the principle of two in one is unlikely to work out well.

[tomket]

Quote: Iline

It turned out not a fighter, nor a bomber.

In the Soviet Union, there was usually a specialization of regiments of fighter-bombers, or specialization of crews inside the regiment.

[VAF]

Quote: tomket

In the Soviet Union, there was usually a specialization of regiments of fighter-bombers, or specialization of crews inside the regiment.

Somehow very ingeniously put it .. very sophisticated!
Yes, we had the same Exercises on KBP for conducting air combat on the Su-17s, and subsequently on the Mig-27s, but ... time was allotted for it ... minuscule ... so that we would not forget
The specialization within the regiment for the squadron was the same, but ... specifically about the purpose of the IBA, and not the "replacement" of the functions of the IA, and even more so the IA of the air defense
Yours faithfully,

[VAF]

Quote: Iline

. It was such at the time the MiG-27, a fighter-bomber. So what? It turned out not a fighter, nor a bomber.

Write everything correctly and correctly, +! with the exception of one ... this phrase applied to the Su-17th, even to the M3 M4 .. believe it
But the MiG-27K .. this is a gorgeous fighter-bomber .. just GORGEOUS .. the only minus .. the gun .. "too big"

[tomket]

Is the gun too big or the supply of shells too small? Exaggeration of the gun was measured by recoil force or do you mean dimensions?

[tomket]

at the start of hostilities, the MiG-31 are usually transferred to other airfields, by the way, which was practiced at the exercises held this year, Voronezh will be able to fly to the emergency site ???

[GSH-18]

Quote: tomket

Voronezh will be able to fly to the emergency site ???

And the airfield of these MIG-31 will be able to fly to the emergency site?

[VAF]

Quote: GSH-18

And the airfield of these MIG-31 will be able to fly to the emergency site?

Why should the airfield fly? Fuel, air, oils and, in general, all means of SNOP are almost the same everywhere .... missiles with you ... stock and nuclear submarine specialists on a transporter ... with programmers the same "baida".
What is the problem then?

[GSH-18]

Quote: vaf

Why should the airfield fly? Fuel, air, oils and, in general, all means of SNOP are almost the same everywhere .... missiles with you ... stock and nuclear submarine specialists on a transporter ... with programmers the same "baida".
What is the problem then?

The problem is the destruction of this airfield. See the initial indirect question:

Quote: tomket

Voronezh will be able to fly to the emergency site ???

[tomket]

I specifically mentioned the teachings of this year, since there was a transfer of technical personnel and weapons

[SV]

And if in the KREMLIN - then dissolve the army?
In the USSR, the combat use of MIG 31 was considered with a spark from SU 27, where the main MIG.
There was a program of deep modernization of MIG 31 according to the type of SU 27 - SU 35, but they adopted a greatly reduced concept.
When the modernized 31st Japanese were transferred to the Far East, they bleated all over the world / it was more comfortable for them to side by side with Sushki ....

[GSH-18]

Quote: SV

When the modernized 31st Japanese were transferred to the Far East, they bleated all over the world / it was more comfortable for them to side by side with Sushki.

Let's go without pathos.
The Japs would bleat anyway! Even from the transfer of a pair of T-72.
Japanese screech is not an indicator of incredible efficiency and modernity of the Mig-31

[yur58]

Do not compare the Soviet-era air defense systems with modern C400, as well as with the developed C500. They are an order of magnitude more efficient. Including cruise missiles and ballistic targets with which aviation, as far as I know, can’t fight (not intended).

[GSH-18]

Quote: yur58

Do not compare the Soviet-era air defense systems with modern C400, as well as with the developed C500. They are an order of magnitude more efficient. Including cruise missiles and ballistic targets with which aviation, as far as I know, can’t fight (not intended).

So I write about it! Why spend money on implementing obsolete Soviet concepts when there are already new methods and means of counteraction that meet modern threats! After all, I asked, but no one was able to answer me what (my) niche in the modern air defense of the Russian Federation will occupy instant-31 and its planned successor.

[tomket]

Quote: GSH-18

what (their) niche in the modern air defense of the Russian Federation will occupy the instant-31 and its planned successor.

the "long arm" of air defense, by the way, the MiG 31 can occupy the niche of anti-satellite defense.

[GSH-18]

Quote: tomket

the "long arm" of air defense, by the way, the MiG 31 can occupy the niche of anti-satellite defense.

Why can't this long arm be a T-50 for example? Interceptor missiles refused the services of his bombers?

[gregor6549]

Regarding cruise missiles and other aerial targets capable of flying at extremely low altitudes with enveloping terrain, nothing more effective than fighter aircraft like the MIG31 has not yet been invented. You can’t deceive physics and all ground-based radars, without exception, have serious limitations on the detection of low-flying targets. C300, C400 and C500 are very good systems, but they also have their limitations. Of course, certain measures to detect low-flying targets were and are being taken during the development of these air defense systems (for example, installing radar antennas on retractable masts, receiving target designation from air defense control systems, etc.), but you will not jump higher than yourself, and all centralized systems in real war conditions will be very fast turn into autonomous, because the enemy does not sleep and falls asleep these systems with all sorts of muck. From ORS to interference. Moreover, both of them have gone far from PRS and the hindrances of the Vietnam War. What am I doing? And to the fact that all attempts to come up with a kind of wunderwaffe always ended with the realization that each wunderwaffe always had its own bolt with the device. Dialectics p. Therefore, it is always useful to be able to distinguish between harsh and unsightly reality from beautiful and glossy brochures

[GSH-18]

Quote: gregor6549

Regarding cruise missiles and other aerial targets capable of flying at extremely low altitudes with enveloping terrain, nothing more effective than fighter aircraft of the MIG31 type has not yet been invented.

Invented: Shell C1
One or two complexes instead of a spark of aircraft and an airfield. Feel the financial difference.

[swan]

In fact, the radar shell has up to 36 km, missile range of 20 km ... and this is NOT for low-flying targets, but for high-altitude ones. On low-flying everything will be sadder, because beyond the horizon, the radar does not see anything, and the horizon, for example, from a 9-storey building (25 meters) is only 18 km away. At the shell, the radar will obviously not be at the height of a nine-story building, and its horizon will be one and a half to two times less.
If a helicopter / rocket flies somewhere behind a knoll or along a river bed, its shell will not see it at all. And the plane has chances from above (although it is difficult to catch the reflected signals).

But even if the nominal figures are compared, the "squadron" MIG-31BM "theoretically" will cover a dozen times larger area than "one or two" of the Pantsir C1 complex.

[GSH-18]

Quote: kugu

In fact, the radar shell has up to 36 km, missile range 20 km

And did it not occur to you that such systems as Shell C1 and others are interconnected into a single information space? And they can receive target designation, for example, from aerospace control centers ??

Quote: kugu

But even if the nominal figures are compared, the "squadron" MIG-31BM "theoretically" will cover ten times more area than "one or two" of the Pantsir C1 complex

Area of ​​what ??? Swamps, forests ??
Shell C1 is always located in the area of ​​protection of important objects. Nobody needs to protect an empty place. Well, except for the MiG-31, probably .. joke.

[swan]

Quote: GSH-18

And did it not occur to you that such systems as Shell C1 and others are interconnected into a single information space? And they can receive target designation, for example, from aerospace control centers ??

It came. And tell me how it will work? Will satellites, AWACS planes be able to direct missiles fired from the shell, in fact, into blind missiles at maneuvering targets at very low altitudes? I'm not sure ...

Quote: GSH-18

Area of ​​what ??? Swamps, forests ??
Shell C1 is always located in the area of ​​protection of important objects. Nobody needs to protect an empty place. Well, except for the MiG-31, probably .. joke.

And not in Russia? And promptly? And perhaps in the offensive? And who else knows in what conditions?
No one disputes that the Shell can be stuck next to the object or let go next to the column of tanks and it will cope quite effectively. But is that all you need?

PS
You know, there was such a man, Nikita Khrushchev was his name. He believed that besides rockets we do not need anything. Neither aircraft, nor aircraft carriers, nothing. Why is all this tripe expensive? If you can rive rockets of different ranges? Bang bang and done.
So it turns out so for you that the Shell is straight Panacea!

Military experts who promote the need for the Mig-31 or its analogues can and are mistaken in something. But your argument is clearly not enough to interrupt even their simple words that it is necessary.

[GSH-18]

Quote: kugu

It came. And tell me how it will work? Will satellites, AWACS planes be able to direct missiles fired from the shell, in fact, into blind missiles at maneuvering targets at very low altitudes? I'm not sure

It seems to me as follows:
1. Fixing the launch center of aerospace control, with the coordinates of the launch site. The center posts the goal.
2. Data transmission to the one closest to the launch site of the air defense system, for example, S-400, or a ship-based analogue of sea-based (which is often already advanced thousands of kilometers ahead of the air defense missile defense complex).
3. Destruction of the target.

Quote: kugu

You know, there was such a man, Nikita Khrushchev was his name. He believed that besides rockets we do not need anything. Neither aircraft, nor aircraft carriers, nothing. Why is all this tripe expensive? If you can rive rockets of different ranges? Bang bang and done.
So it turns out so for you that the Shell is straight Panacea!

You misunderstood me. I have already outlined the essence of my approach, and doubts about the appropriateness of resurrecting antiquities. Take a look at the comments, if interested.
I am not a supporter of a panacea! I am opposed to duplicating the latest aircraft systems with obsolete models from the times of the USSR!

Quote: kugu

But your argument is clearly not enough to interrupt even their simple words that it is necessary.

It is difficult to argue with the Uri patriots. Only here is the money for all this where to get it?

[Iline]

Weak point in your mind

Quote: GSH-18

The center posts the goal.

Based on what information? Aircraft AWACS? Space? Or from a MiG-31 type aircraft?
Do not tell the number of A-50 to our immense border? Satellites well only record the launch of a rocket, but they cannot fully track it. Moreover, cruise missiles do not fly in a straight line.
Somehow they conducted joint exercises with the Northern Fleet with the launch of cruise missiles. All ground air defense died and only the MiG-31 shot down a couple of pieces.

[GSH-18]

Quote: Iline

Based on what information? Aircraft AWACS? Space? Or from a MiG-31 type aircraft?
Do not tell the number of A-50 to our immense border? Satellites well only record the launch of a rocket, but they cannot fully track it. Moreover, cruise missiles do not fly in a straight line

The center carries out wiring based on the data of all radars, satellite constellations and aircraft drills, radar fleets. What surprises you?

[gregor6549]

No offense to the creators of the Shell. In my unenlightened opinion, combining on one mobile unit aerial targets, air defense systems, an anti-aircraft gun system and means of guiding missiles and cannons is not a very successful technical solution.
Firstly, Pantsir's radar systems themselves are a good "beacon" for enemy anti-radar missiles. Given the fact that the range at which the radar is detected is much greater than the range at which this radar can detect an air target, and the flight range of a modern anti-radar missile is much longer than the flight range of the Pantsir missile defense system, it is not even necessary to guess which of the opposing sides will be in a more advantageous position.
Further. Combining air defense systems and cannons in one rotating "turret" is also not the best solution. the most "tasty and edible" target for cannons can be at the same azimuth and elevation angle, and the most "tasty and edible" target for anti-aircraft guided missiles at completely different azimuth and elevation angles. In addition, the requirements for guidance accuracy for guns and missiles at these angles are seriously different.
All this leads to an increase in the weight and complexity of the power synchronous servo drive of this "turret" and, consequently, to a decrease in the response time of the complex to VCs, carrying out raids from different directions.
It seems to me that it would be more competent to "pull apart" the radar, guns and missiles for different mobile units, ie. not to philosophize slyly, but to use a complex of air defense systems consisting, for example, of launchers for vertical-launch missiles, a rapid-fire anti-aircraft gun or cannons, separate radars for detecting and guiding missiles and guns, a separate radar data processing point and fire control. The survivability and efficiency of such a spaced-apart system would be much higher than that of a "combined" Armor, and the higher cost of a spaced-apart system would pay off a hundredfold in a real war, and more than one life would be saved. Not everything that looks beautiful in parades and pictures fights as beautifully in a real combat situation. This, incidentally, also applies to the forerunner of the Tunguska Shell.

[tomket]

and how, how much will you be able to stick the shell on? on the area in 900 sq. km?

[GSH-18]

Quote: tomket

and how, how much will you be able to stick the shell on? on the area in 900 sq. km?

Do we have any more air defense systems except for "Shells" ??
The shells are not meant to "bump" as you put it. They are used to cover important mobile and stationary objects.
I bring to your attention the S-400 air defense system!
The radius of coverage is 600 km.
It seems to me that these air defense systems will need much less than the instant-31 to the same territory (and they also know how to ride ) What do you think?

[VAF]

Quote: gregor6549

not yet invented.

Gregory, dear, +! But let's stop at this phrase of yours "not yet invented".
AKP for MiG-31..it is such a .. "headache" that ....

Therefore, with great pleasure for your here THOUGHT (well, which is highlighted below)

Quote: gregor6549

Therefore, it is always useful to be able to distinguish between harsh and unsightly reality from beautiful and glossy brochures

[Iline]

One can still add that both the Su-35 and T-50 are designed for maneuvering combat primarily, and not for long-range interception tasks. And every supposedly universal weapon, like a tool, does a lot of operations. But equally mediocre everything.
Only an airplane sharpened for a specific task can fulfill its assigned function perfectly.

[GSH-18]

Quote: Iline

Only an airplane sharpened for a specific task can fulfill its assigned function perfectly.

Maybe. But here more and more depends not on the aircraft, but on the interceptor missile.
The destroyed target will be on the drum, from which the missile launched from the MiG-31 or from the Universal T-50. And we better have 100 T-50s than 50 Mig-21s (upgrade) and 50 T-50s!

[GSH-18]

Quote: Iline

РЎСѓ-35 Ryo Рў-50 designed for maneuvering combat primarily, but not for long-range interception tasks

Why do you think so??
Read about the 5th generation, learn a lot.

[tomket]

and what do we learn? By the way, according to the most important parameter, the time to reach the line of attack, the MiG wins.

[Vasily V]

For intercepting and destroying air targets at extremely small, small, medium and high altitudes, day and night, in simple and difficult weather conditions, when the enemy uses active and passive radar interference, as well as false thermal targets. A group of four MiG-31 aircraft is capable of controlling airspace with a front length of 800–900 km. Air defense multifaceted structure.

[GSH-18]

Quote: Vasily V

A group of four MiG-31 aircraft is capable of controlling airspace with a front length of 800–900 km

In order for them to begin to control it, they must still be raised in the air and taken to the patrol area, it is TIME. And ground-based radars of aerospace control are constantly observing and surpassing the capabilities of this flying antiques by a head. And what to bring down, there is. In air defense, the main thing is to detect it as soon as possible. What these stations do perfectly well.
Some performance characteristics:
Voronezh-DM - ​​operates in the decimeter range, range - up to 6 thousand km. on the horizon and up to 8 thousand km. vertically (near space). It can simultaneously control up to 500 objects [7] [8]. Developed by NPK "NIIDAR" with the participation of "RTI named after Mintsa. "
Chief Designer - S. D. Saprykin.

[Mig 31]

I want to answer you - to discover this is not all. It’s necessary to destroy in my opinion this is the most important thing, and destroy it away from your borders. This is the uniqueness of the aircraft in its sighting system and armament, and I recall that the cruising speed of this aircraft is 2,35 M !!!

[GSH-18]

Quote: Mig 31

I want to answer you - to discover this is not all. It’s necessary to destroy in my opinion this is the most important thing, and destroy it away from your borders. This is the uniqueness of the aircraft in its sighting system and armament, and I recall that the cruising speed of this aircraft is 2,35 M !!!

The answer is, before he discovers something there in real combat conditions, he can be shot down. And in order for him to discover something, he still has to fly there, and this is priceless time! And here is what the situation looks like with the use of the latest Voronezh radar:
1. Target detected in real time
2. Target designation sent to the S-400
3. The target is destroyed in advance (before approaching our territory).
4. Loss of personnel 0!

Now figure out the same thing yourself only with the use of the Mig-31 and without the S-400 and the Voronezh radar

[Mig 31]

A question for you? and what is the combat radius of the S-400 ??? I don't remember, but the old S-300 had a radius of 150 km !!! What is 150 km? In the days of Khrushchev! have already passed this "Aviation is not needed, we will throw missiles"

[GSH-18]

Quote: Mig 31

Do you have a question? and what is the combat radius of the S-400 ??? I don’t remember already, but the old S-300 had a radius of 150 km !!! And what is 150 km?

Well, actually it's not 150km, but 400km, with a detection range of 600km. Here is a link to the source: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D1-400
So this slogan of Khrushchev turned out to be prophetic.

[desertfox]

It is not entirely clear for what terrain "the situation with the use of the latest Voronezh radar systems".
Try to imagine a more specific situation: a likely adversary was shooting tomahawks from the Barents Sea at a station over the horizon radar station in Pechora. Tomahawks were discovered, the question is, how to shoot them down?
In Soviet times, there was a regiment of mig-31 + A-50 aircraft.

[GSH-18]

Quote: desertfox

Try to imagine a more specific situation: a likely adversary was shooting tomahawks from the Barents Sea at a station over the horizon radar station in Pechora. Tomahawks were discovered, the question is, how to shoot them down?

I will not imagine, but give a specific situation that really happened:
Radar "Voronezh" Armavir in real time recorded a rocket launch in the Mediterranean Sea, with the coordinates of the launch!
Now about the conditions of detection: As you know (who doesn’t know, may look at the map), the Krasnodar city of Armavir is located behind the Caucasian ridge (in this case) from the detected target! What other "special" conditions do you need ??
And now, about what to bring down. Believe me, not only leopards are found in the mountains of the Caucasus!

[serezhasoldatow]

Israel didn’t bring down a single MIG-25-ROCKET And MIG-31 all the more !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GSH-18]

Quote: serezhasoldatow

Israel didn’t bring down a single MIG-25-ROCKET And MIG-31 all the more !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take the trouble to remember when this incident took place, how many decades have passed? Can you give a guarantee that even now the "Israeli" missiles will not catch up with the MiG-31 ??

[swan]

As if PATROLING can be carried out at least all year round with a sufficient number of cars / crews / fuel and no time to "exit" is required.

Voronezh-DM - ​​operates in the decimeter range, range - up to 6 thousand km. on the horizon and up to 8 thousand km. vertically (near space).

How is she with low-flying goals? No way?

[GSH-18]

Quote: kugu

As if PATROLING can be carried out at least all year round with a sufficient number of cars / crews / fuel and no time to "exit" is required.

An unmeasured amount of money is required. We will repeat the mistakes of the USSR. Or will we make a little effort and switch to new "money-saving" and more efficient technologies ??

Quote: kugu

How is she with low-flying goals? No way?

As well as at comparable ranges and the Mig-31 (reference: the working range of target detection of the Voronezh radar is 6000 km).
Naturally, more accurate information for target designation of air defense systems can be obtained from other sources (aircraft drills, satellites, ship radars) including their own radar.

[tomket]

Quote: GSH-18

As far as I know, the MiG-31, in addition to high speed, does not have any advantages over modern front-line aircraft of the 4 ++ and 5 generation!

The MiG-31, in addition to its maximum speed, has many advantages, even over the T-50. advantage in the ceiling, advantage in climbing with access to supersonic (T-50 does not know how). In terms of cruising speed at supersonic MiG-31 -2500 km / h, T-50 about 1800 km / h, launching missiles with higher kinetic energy compared to the T-50, in addition, the MiG-31M, the only aircraft in the world that destroyed an air target on distance of 300 km. in addition, the MiG-31 can play the role of a mini AWACS or a leader for the MiG-29, Su-30, Su-27, etc. The MiG-31 practically implements the "long arm" principle in aerial combat, which no one plane at the moment.

[GSH-18]

Quote: tomket

The MiG-31, in addition to its maximum speed, has many advantages, even over the T-50. advantage in the ceiling, advantage in climbing with access to supersonic (T-50 does not know how). In terms of cruising speed at supersonic MiG-31 -2500 km / h, T-50 about 1800 km / h, launching missiles with higher kinetic energy compared to the T-50, in addition, the MiG-31M, the only aircraft in the world that destroyed an air target on distance of 300 km. in addition, the MiG-31 can play the role of a mini AWACS or a leader for the MiG-29, Su-30, Su-27, etc. The MiG-31 practically implements the "long arm" principle in aerial combat, which no one plane at the moment.

The "advantages" you cited in the modern threat system mean absolutely nothing! This is ridiculous.
If you follow your logic, you need to urgently curtail the development and production of the T-50 and urgently begin to produce obsolete Mig-31!

Quote: tomket

advantage in gaining altitude with access to supersonic sound (the T-50 does not know how)

why do you think so?? T-50 develops supersonic without afterburner!
No one forbids using the afterburner when climbing.

Quote: tomket

even before the T-50. ceiling advantage

T-50 is not needed. The newest weapon systems more than compensate for this. Of course, if you don't want to shake hands with the target before destroying it

Quote: tomket

launch of missiles with greater kinetic energy compared to the T-50

This is generally a relic of the past. For the interceptor, it is not kinetics that are important, but the speed and accuracy of the rocket.

Quote: tomket

in addition, the MiG-31 can play the role of a mini AWACS or a leader for the MiG-29, Su-30, Su-27, etc. The MiG-31 practically implements the "long arm" principle in aerial combat, which no one plane at the moment.

In general, this PAK FA includes absolutely all the capabilities presented to an airplane of tactical military aviation, but not like an ancient moment-31.

[tomket]

[quote = GSh-18] The "advantages" you cited in the modern system of threats mean absolutely nothing! This is ridiculous. [/ Quote]
What are these "modern threat systems"? what do you mean??? Nobody sends the B-52 from the Americans, despite the presence of the B-2. Excuse me, what exactly compensates the advantage in the ceiling? In general, a rocket launched with an advantage in height will fly further and its speed will be higher. Nobody canceled the laws of acceleration physics on a dive, and your some newest systems too. [Quote = GSH-18] [quote = GSH-18] This is generally a relic of the past. For the interceptor, it is not kinetics that is important, but the speed and accuracy of the rocket [/ quote]
How would you answer, so as not to offend, if you give a kick to some object, will it run faster after such an acceleration? [Quote = ГШ-18] In general, this PAK FA includes absolutely all the possibilities offered to a tactical military aircraft , but not as not an ancient moment-31. [/ quote]
Tactical tasks, and the MiG-31 solves strategic tasks.

[GSH-18]

Quote: tomket

What are "modern threat systems"? what do you mean??? Nobody sends the B-52 to the Americans, despite the presence of the B-2

We, too, Kalash will be in service for a long time! If you give examples, then give the corresponding ones, not anyhow what to write.
By modern threats, in particular, I mean the presence of supersonic missiles (and the future presence of infrasonic shock missiles), coupled with carriers (aircraft) that have the properties of low visibility, jamming, etc. which takes Mig-31 beyond the limits of possible further use for the old purpose, due to the impossibility of upgrading this junk to the necessary condition.

Quote: tomket

MiG-31 solves strategic tasks

He no longer solves anything, and he will not solve anything serious. His records are in the past, like himself.
The future lies with the new generation of interceptor missiles and their carriers, the latest aviation systems.

[Vita_vko]

To understand the significance of the MiG-31 interceptor, you need to at least have a idea of ​​what a modern anti-aircraft operation is.
On the "fingers" can be explained as follows, modern air defense systems are echeloned, i.e. different range is the same as infantry with different firearms. Moreover, the infantry is not even sitting in the trenches, but in open areas. And if you sit constantly on the defensive, then any soldier understands that sooner or later the battle will be lost.
Comparison of the T-50 and MiG-35 with the MiG-31 is somewhat inappropriate. It's like comparing a machine gun and a gun with a sniper rifle.

[GSH-18]

Quote: Vita_vko

On the "fingers" can be explained as follows, modern air defense systems are echeloned, i.e. different ranges are like infantry with different firearms.

Let me explain (on fingers): A layered air defense system is not a separate type of troops, which is a target for the enemy, it is part of the country's air defense, which also includes the Air Force, which has the latest tactical attack aircraft Su-35 and T-50. Now the picture is complete.

[Vita_vko]

In air defense, the concept of a train has several meanings. There is a layered radar field, which includes radars of various frequency ranges. There is a layered air defense system, short, medium and long range. And there is also an air defense system, which is being built comprehensively and in advance. What you write about, namely the types of troops of IA, RTV, ZRV and REB, is an integrated approach to creating an air defense system. It is quite effective, but unfortunately are poorly implemented, since the IA and EW units are not subordinate to the air defense commander.
Here you are strenuously defending the PAK FA, which, in your opinion, can replace the MiG-31. Personally, I can’t even imagine how the T-50 squadrons will be on duty on air defense troops on alert 1,2 and 3. Naturally, these multifunctional vehicles will not be able to carry out any other tasks not related to combat duty to protect airspace.

[GSH-18]

Quote: Vita_vko

Here you are strenuously defending the PAK FA, which, in your opinion, can replace the MiG-31. Personally, I can’t even imagine how the T-50 squadrons will be on duty on air defense troops on alert 1,2 and 3. Naturally, these multifunctional vehicles will not be able to carry out any other tasks not related to combat duty to protect airspace.

Do you understand what the matter is, I have doubts about the prospects of further use in the Mig-31 air defense and the design of its next modification, in the light of new modern threats and modern answers implemented in the Russian Federation to them. The situation is oil-oil. On the approach of the T-50 (already there are Su-35) which are declared as! Universal! aviation tactical systems. ALL new aviation weapons are adapted and designed for them. Accordingly, supersonic long-range interceptor missiles will be adapted (designed). In this regard, the question arises: why invest a ton of money for the modernization of an old highly specialized aircraft, when the tasks facing it in Soviet times can be solved in the Russian Federation by modern means ???

[Mountain shooter]

All sorts of mothers are needed, all sorts of mothers are important. Simply put, the Mig 31 is (especially in a pair or four) a very fast (with the speed of a rifle bullet) complex C 500 moving across the sky, and even at an altitude of 20 km, and can look down. If any of the ground-based air defense systems is damaged, only they can quickly plug a hole in the sky.
Or organize such a "wandering air defense zone" in a place where the enemy never expects.

[GSH-18]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Simply put, Mig 31 is (especially in a pair or four) a very fast (with the speed of a rifle bullet) complex C 500 moving across the sky,

Well, to the S-500 it’s like to the moon.

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Or organize such a "wandering air defense zone" in a place where the enemy never expects.

Are you hinting at military expansion? But these interceptor missiles can be hung on the Su-35 and T-50! .. What is the indispensability? In addition, advance on 4 ++ and 5 radars!

[Vita_vko]

Quote: GSH-18

In this regard, the question arises: why put in a ton of money for the modernization of an old highly specialized aircraft

Repetition of mother teaching. As i wrote

Firstly, specialized equipment is always cheaper and more efficient than universal by definition! An attempt to create a T-50 is a very stupid principle of Khrushchev to catch up with and overtake America, expensive and inefficient.
Secondly, it is not enough to create a universal aircraft, it is still necessary to train universal pilots and submit them to a universal command, which would be equally well versed in ground and aerospace operations. In short, universal technology is one thing, but universal specialists, pilots, command and control system, this is from the realm of fantasy.

[rodevaan]

- Keep it up! The Evil Empire must always be under a new, modernized scope!

[tomket]

Why don’t I understand why I need to wait for the start of work before 2017? We have overloaded design bureaus for various projects, so like this, it won’t work differently? Or again Siluanov squeezed money for financing, and Medvedev conducts budgetary maneuvers ????

[SV]

Why don’t I understand why I need to wait for the start of work before 2017? We have overloaded KB

One explanation - this project Poghosyan crushes for himself, but until he brings to mind the PAK FA, he has no way to ruin this development. Can he afford to give money to MIG, apparently he already buried the MIG. Occasionally admitting to modernization projects and the role of a junior assistant in new developments of SU (drones)

[Juborg]

It's unclear! Yesterday, Rogozin proclaims the line for the modernization and construction of new Mig-31s only under the index 41, and then the creation of a new long-range interceptor in exchange for the 31st, and even only in 2017 it will only begin to be developed. It turns out that the 41st was just verbiage.

[rasputin17]

Good luck to our designers! They will also teach everyone what planes to build !!

[svp67]

The time lines are already very far, and this is in an environment that is changing, almost daily ... But anyway - it’s good that we have plans for the future ...

[propolsky]

It’s a pity that another eight years to wait, I want a miracle now.

[Barakuda]

Good of course. But I've been hearing about the start of development for half a year already. Now we need to start, otherwise we will receive a replacement obviously not in the 25th year.

[Associate Professor]

Quote: Barracuda

Good of course. But I've been hearing about the start of development for half a year already. Now we need to start, otherwise we will receive a replacement obviously not in the 25th year.

Everything is written incorrectly in the article. research work is already underway. 2017 will begin development. So said Bondarev yesterday

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Docent

Everything is written incorrectly in the article. research work is already underway. 2017 will begin development. So said Bondarev yesterday

Associate Professor, seems to me right!
"Long-range high-speed fighter-interceptor, developed on the basis of the MiG-31 MiG Design Bureau in conjunction with the Design Bureau of the Sokol aircraft plant (Nizhny Novgorod). Development began in the first half of 2013, according to a statement by the Air Force Commander-in-Chief from 11.04.2013., by order of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia. "

[dchegrinec]

A rather strange wording of the question: they will begin development. Development should already be not only in the minds but also in reality by 50%, the remaining 50 should be adapted to new challenges and threats ..

[Altona]

Quote: dchegrinec

A rather strange wording of the question: they will begin development. Development should already be not only in the minds but also in reality by 50%, the remaining 50 should be adapted to new challenges and threats ..

------------------------------
The terms of reference are probably already almost ready, maybe not even in one version ... Now the concepts of the airframe are probably already being offered ... As long as all ideas are collected, discussed, they will probably reach by 2017 ... Then, choosing from one of the several TORs, one for the airframe and something will be sculpted on the tasks of the fighter ...

[Associate Professor]

Quote: dchegrinec

A rather strange wording of the question: they will begin development. Development should already be not only in the minds but also in reality by 50%, the remaining 50 should be adapted to new challenges and threats ..

"Since 2017, we are starting work with a promising long-range intercept aircraft system, which will replace the MiG-31. Now research is underway, then there will be development work, and until 2025, I think, he will go to the troops, "- said the commander-in-chief. Bondarev clarified that development work involving the creation of a prototype aircraft should begin in 2017.
http://itar-tass.com/politika/1372675

[Koloradovatnik]

Well, if the thirty-year MiG-31 still has no analogues in the world, then the MiG-41 years before the sixties will be the best interceptor in the world. And there the MiG-51 will ripen

[GSH-18]

Quote: Colorado

Well, if the thirty-year MiG-31 still has no analogues in the world

Why do you think so? Aircraft built in the early 80s more modern than all modern? Like, world military aviation has stood still for 30 years? Turn off the junk, turn on the brain. It seems to me that this product for a modern front-line fighter is not much more complicated than a training target

[Vasily V]

All of our aviation, including the latest developments, is the backlog of the USSR. So far, Russia has actually just begun to work in this direction.

[GSH-18]

Quote: Vasily V

All of our aviation, including the latest developments, is the backlog of the USSR. So far, Russia has actually just begun to work in this direction.

Do you really think so??
Su-27 is a hurt of the USSR. Everything after him is the RF! And now Sushki (even the 25th), already in service, has only a glider from the USSR. A lot has been modernized, primarily avionics, radar, weapons, etc.
If the Russian Federation did not work hard on modernization and new groundwork (T-50), then we now did not have our own modern military aviation!

[swan]

Now his goal is probably not fighters, but large missiles, satellites, AWACS aircraft and other fatty and important targets (purely my opinion, because there are drying and Pak-fs in the short term to intercept fighters. By the way, do not forget that the MIG-31 is capable of be a leader for dryers and twinks, because he has an extremely long-range radar). But ... purely theoretically against the F-22/35 it will be hard for him, probably. Against the F-15, most likely normal. With the F-16 is unlikely to meet. Rather, he will come across an F-18. And even the latest upgrades of the Super Hornets are older than the MIG-31BM ... so the question is who is even more modern).

In any case, in fighter duels, the radar, electronic warfare, and the capabilities of missile guidance heads are more likely to solve ... but it is also possible that all these systems mutually exclude each other's defeat by missiles and they will have to go into a maneuvering battle with guns. Then the MIG-31 should simply blame from the raptors / F-15 in its 3 max, and drying / packs should be involved.

Purely my, sofa, analytics).
PS
MiG-31BM - 1998 modernization, a modern version of the MiG-31 for the Russian Air Force. It is planned by 2020 to upgrade the 60 MiG-31 in the MiG-31BM. In 2008, the first stage of the ICG was completed, the second stage in 2012. Upgraded aircraft will receive a new weapon control system and radar, which will detect targets at ranges up to 320 kilometers and simultaneously track up to ten air targets

[GSH-18]

Quote: kugu

By the way, do not forget that the MIG-31 is able to be a leader for dryers and twigs,

Since when does junk manage a novice?

Quote: kugu

but it is also possible that all these systems mutually exclude each other’s missile defeat and that they will have to go into a maneuvering battle with guns. Then the MIG-31 should simply blame from the raptors / F-15 in its 3 max, and drying / packs should be involved.

Very interesting point of view!
We here on the site often laugh at the "clumsy" F-22 and the really flying F-35 boot, not taking into account that the philosophy of American air combat (and the construction of promising fighters, respectively) is very different from ours, Russian. US Air Force strategists are confident that engaging in close combat is the final argument in aerial combat. Hence, it is logical to assume that they took all the measures available to them for this. The 31st has very little chance against them, let's be honest. EPR efok puts radar on the 31st at a disadvantage. And he has no other advantages over them! Our dryers from generation 4+ and above can compete with efkas on an equal footing (to say the least), and in the future, the T-50 with its latest weapon systems.
But no matter how junk MiG-31, of course, if you do not want to train in shooting for a guaranteed defeat of American pilots.

[swan]

Since it was laid down by designers and twinks and dryers.
Why do you think the 31st junk? They appeared at about the same time as the Su-27 ... why do you think that modern drying modifications are conceptually better than modern modifications of the 31st? Maybe the square shape bothers you? Although, I confess, the upgrade to the MIG-31BM does not look as large as the upgrade to the SU-35S ... but still, why is one junk and the other modern ... it is not clear.

No one says that the raptors will go into a maneuvering battle, but if our missile counteraction systems are effective enough, what else should they do? Shot at idle and home? Well, let them fly. If the raptor is not able to destroy airborne equipment - who needs it for nothing? The elusive joe.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: kugu

Why do you think the 31 junk? They appeared at about the same time as Su-27 ...

Because the Su-27 of the first series is now junk.

Quote: kugu

why do you think that modern drying modifications are conceptually better than modern modifications of 31? Maybe the square shape bothers you? Although, I admit, the upgrade to MIG-31BM does not look as large as the upgrade to SU-35С

If only because the Su-35С in essence has nothing to do with the Su-27 - neither in terms of the fuselage, nor in the engines, nor in the avionics. There is only some external resemblance of the silhouette.

[GSH-18]

Quote: kugu

Since it was laid down by designers and twinks and dryers.
Why do you think the 31st junk? They appeared at about the same time as the Su-27

Speaking of junk, I do not scold Soviet engineers. It's just that the aircraft is conceptually outdated and has no possibility of further modernization. With Sushki everything is the other way around - the potential incorporated in the "formula" of the aircraft turned out to be very large! Hence the variety of modifications and the development of the line! What can not be said about the moment-31.

Quote: kugu

No one says that the raptors will go into a maneuvering battle, but if our missile counteraction systems are effective enough, what else should they do?

And I will answer you in all seriousness, bring home! What they will do, be sure. It’s just the situation itself: the Americans crept up, shot and didn’t kill anyone, it looks fabulous But if this happens, then there will be what I wrote above

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: kugu

Now his goal is probably not fighters, but large missiles, satellites, AWACS aircraft and other fatty and important targets

Only one question - why is the same Su-35С or PAK FA worse for fulfilling the stated goals?

Quote: kugu

By the way, do not forget that the MIG-31 is able to be a leader for dryers and twigs, because it has an extremely long-range radar)

Once upon a time, he really had a long-range radar. Now his radar is far from being so long-range.

Quote: kugu

But ... purely theoretically against the F-22 / 35 it will be difficult for him, probably. Against F-15, most likely, normal. With F-16 is unlikely to meet. Rather, he will come across F-18. And even the latest upgrades of the Super Hornets are older than the MIG-31BM ... so the question is who is even more modern).

The only question is that in a battle against a more or less equivalent enemy (and not like the United States fought against Iraq) in a situation where an air battle is conducted in accordance with all the rules (i.e., with the use of electronic warfare, aircraft or other means of AWACS etc.) it’s not possible to bring down enemy fighters from afar; switching to close air combat will become a regular occurrence. But for the BVB MiG-31 is absolutely unsuitable, maneuverability is near zero, here, as I understand it, it will lose to almost any front-line fighter.

Quote: kugu

In the 2008 year, the first stage of the ICG was completed, the second stage in the 2012. The upgraded aircraft will receive a new weapon control system and radar, which will allow to detect targets at a distance of up to 320 kilometers

What EPR goals - not specified? :)))

[GSH-18]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

What EPR goals - not specified? :)))

EPR aircraft carrier
I'm sorry, I could not restrain myself.
It’s just stupid to compare the effectiveness of an aircraft’s radar and the effectiveness of layered air defense.
I mean, it’s better to make several S-500s than to throw money away for upgrading a flying vacuum cleaner

[SkiF_RnD]

The MiG-31 was never intended to achieve air superiority. Against the F-15, it has little more chances than against the Su-27. This is an interceptor, not a "fighter", that is, not a "fighter" at all, in essence. These interceptors have the maneuverability of a jet-powered log, God forgive me. And an aircraft that is never devoid of maneuverability will not be able to fight fighters with a high efficiency of its combat work. The mission of the MiG-25P, MiG-25PD, MiG-31 and MiG-31BM is the destruction of bombers and cruise missiles of a potential enemy. Was and remains. Sincerely.

[GSH-18]

Quote: SkiF_RnD

The mission of the MiG-25P, MiG-25PD, MiG-31 and MiG-31BM is the destruction of bombers and cruise missiles of a potential enemy. It was and remains. Sincerely. hi

Excellent!
Destruction of bombers is the main interest of fighters at the moment (among other things). And if you rearrange interceptor missiles from a log to Sushka or T-50, you get an excellent long-range interceptor! And the country will save a lot of money. I've been writing about this here for half a day, I earned a bunch of minuses.

[DMB-88]

Quote: GSH-18

Why do you think so? Aircraft built in the early 80s more modern than all modern? Like, world military aviation has stood still for 30 years? Turn off the junk, turn on the brain. It seems to me that this product for a modern front-line fighter is not much more complicated than a training target

From your words, it turns out that all the SU and MIG aircraft in service with the Russian Federation are junk ... After all, they were developed back in the 70s ... and only the Voronezh station will be saved from attack .., it would be reasonable for you to notice that there is also a space satellite constellation, and if you follow your logic, then Voronezh is not needed either ...
They tell you that air defense is a complex multi-stage system in which the MIG-31 still occupies its niche and perfectly performs the tasks specific to it, for which it was designed !!!

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: DMB-88

From your words, it turns out that all SU and MIG aircraft that are in the arsenal of the Russian Federation are scrap ...

This is the case. With the exception of a small number of upgraded Su-27СМ3, Миг-31БМ, Algerian Mig-29СМТ and new machines - Su-30М2 and СМ.
Su-35 will probably be a great car, but as I understand it, there are still a lot of childhood diseases.

[GSH-18]

Quote: DMB-88

From your words, it turns out that all the SU and MIG aircraft in service with the Russian Federation are junk ... After all, they were developed back in the 70s ... and only the Voronezh station will be saved from attack .., it would be reasonable for you to notice that there is also a space satellite constellation, and if you follow your logic, then Voronezh is not needed either ...
They tell you that air defense is a complex multi-stage system in which the MIG-31 still occupies its niche and perfectly performs the tasks specific to it, for which it was designed !!! hi

It was designed in the absence of the concept of a 5th generation aircraft and modern supersonic missiles !!! Under the doctrine of the USSR and the threat system of 50 years ago! Since then, something has changed. And radically!

Quote: DMB-88

From your words turns that all SU and MIG aircraft in service with the Russian Federation are scrap ..

No, it doesn’t work! Since these are multi-purpose aircraft that have undergone timely modernization.

[smith7]

That pleased! Rogozin will resume the release of MIG-31 (http://topwar.ru/55824-rogozin-vyskazalsya-za-vozobnovlenie-proizvodstva-mig-31.
html # comment-id-3168024), and the UAC will design a promising replacement aircraft complex! Straight from the heart relieved. And then "resume release" and that's it ... As if there is no time and the war is tomorrow.

[Koloradovatnik]

I'm afraid that the resources for the thirty-first may not be enough. Russia, after all, is not the Soviet Union, and not even the RSFSR. Surely, in the 90-th factories were rebuilt for shopping centers, and specialists were fired. So the forty-first in time for the twenties will come up, by that time, I hope, we’ll get rich enough to release it. And the thirty-first release will be too late, it will become obsolete. It's a pity. So handsome

[dauria]

. Surely in the 90s, the factories were rebuilt as shopping centers,

Plant 21 has NOT been rebuilt, calm down. And "Gidromash" with "Heat exchanger" too.
Resident of Nizhny Novgorod (Gorky)

[sanja.grw]

Hello, Countryman, I, from St. Vari, agree how it works and how it works. I studied at Aviation in the early 90's

[dauria]

Hi ! I'm from "Proletarskaya", ZKS in the spirit of steps.

[silver169]

They are starting a good, important business. Success and good luck to Russian designers.

[KIRON]

The good news. Just 11 years. Even today it is very fast. All with Aviation Day!

[KG_patriot_last]

I hope that existing gliders have the opportunity for modernization. It is unlikely that the party will be large, you need a unified machine, for example, based on a multi-role fighter, this will speed up production. For example, the US has an F-16 version.

[MSA]

The time will come see

[igor1981]

I am sincerely happy for our aviation. Having a strong and modern aircraft is essential for any war. As modern combat conflicts show, aviation plays a huge role in any armed conflict. Once again, I congratulate our pilots on Air Force Day.

[mig31]

It’s a pity my complex, but it’s not forever, let it be better for all of us after us ........

[tolyasik0577]

Already in the 17th year, they will only begin. there another 10 years until the first production model is released. Let's hope that the MiG 31 has enough modernization resources.
Good luck and talent to our designers.
God help.

[leks]

Three more years to wait for this event, and then only begin research work to create the appearance of the future aircraft. Why should such events be reported long before the start of all work on this project? In three years, a lot of things can happen right up to the war. It is not easier to say that from the first of August 2014 we began research work on creating the look of the future replacement aircraft, moment 31. And so it turns out he said only in order to say something on this topic, and the reader’s interest in this article should be supported.

[222222]

... "" of a promising aircraft complex (!!!) of long-range interception .. "" ...
...про МИГ-31 и... много...http://pro75555.myqip.ru/?1-17-0-00000006-000-0-0-1392836014

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Something is already scary to me :))))
PAK-FA. Su-35C. Su-Xnumxcm. Su-30M30. Su-2CM27.Mig-3.Mig-35BM. And now a new interceptor? But what about unification?
And to the designers, of course, I wish you good luck, and a good bit of noble madness in any undertaking - and let the obstacles on the road to the impossible themselves run away from their path

[Maksim...]

We love zoos.

[ed65b]

of course, of course, the car is cool but it’s becoming obsolete, it will be interesting to have a new one as swift and formidable?

[Ivan Tarasov]

The heir to the MiG-31 should be hypersonic, taking into account the possibility of interception of hypersonic devices and low-orbit satellites.

[wladimir]

you give new planes and it is desirable that they were purchased in the right quantity for the army and navy

[uralkos]

These developments should have started yesterday, although better late than never. But still there is resentment, why then do we need commanders-in-chief and defense commissions. He himself served in aviation, saw in what condition the MiG-31. It is sad that such a machine will not retire without using its full potential. Lantern, there was a disaster.

[jPilot]

I hope the car will be all domestic and built on the latest technology. The main thing now is the raising and development of the domestic military-industrial complex, they have collapsed, and now we will revive at an accelerated pace.
In addition, the US administration must be destroyed

[dr.Bo]

The article is good. There is nothing better than a revival of the native industry!

[Gardamir]

If UAVs and drones are already gaining strength, then maybe it is time to design something more promising?

[novel68rus]

it’s a pity that nothing was developed in 90 but only purposefully destroyed .. such aircraft were needed yesterday .. it’s good that much attention is now paid to it .. the resource of old aircraft is being worked out and given the size of our homeland we need such aircraft ...

[qwert]

In the 80's, at about the same time as the start of the development of the XI MUM project at the MiG Design Bureau, work began on the TIR project (Multifunction Long Range Interceptor) to replace the MiG-1.42 interceptor. TIR later became known as the 31 product. Like its predecessor, the TIR task was to patrol and protect the extended borders of the USSR with a high degree of autonomy. At the same time, it was supposed to take a significant step from the MiG-7.01 in the performance characteristics of this aircraft complex.
The aerodynamic design is a single-keel duck with a variable wing along the leading edge sweep and PGO. The placement of weapons is internal.
Aircraft crew: 2 people
Powerplant: 2 DTRD.
Armament: SD "air-to-air."
Cruising speed: 2300 - 2500km / h
Estimated cruising range, km
Supersonic 7000 !!!!!!!!!
Subsonic 11000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Engines: Two AL-41F (ed.20)
Afterburner rod 2 * 20000 kgf
Thrust max 2 * 15800 kgf
Draft working 2 * 12500 kgf
Specific fuel consumption 0,66 kg / kgf * h
Cruising supersonic flight time:
7000 km / 2100 km / h = 3,33 hours.
thrust in this mode 2 * 15800 kgf = 31600 kgf
Fuel consumption - 0,33 kg / kgf * h.
The weight:
Maximum 70580 kg
Normal 48590 kg (refill 52%)
Normal 61490 kg (refill 100%)
Empty 35020 kg

[qwert]

In the 80's, at about the same time as the start of the development of the XI MUM project at the MiG Design Bureau, work began on the TIR project (Multifunction Long Range Interceptor) to replace the MiG-1.42 interceptor. TIR later became known as the 31 product. Like its predecessor, the TIR task was to patrol and protect the extended borders of the USSR with a high degree of autonomy. At the same time, it was supposed to take a significant step from the MiG-7.01 in the performance characteristics of this aircraft complex.
The aerodynamic design is a single-keel duck with a variable wing along the leading edge sweep and PGO. The placement of weapons is internal.
Aircraft crew: 2 people
Powerplant: 2 DTRD.
Armament: SD "air-to-air."
Cruising speed: 2300 - 2500km / h
Estimated cruising range, km
Supersonic 7000 !!!!!!!!!
Subsonic 11000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Engines: Two AL-41F (ed.20)
Afterburner rod 2 * 20000 kgf
Thrust max 2 * 15800 kgf
Draft working 2 * 12500 kgf
Specific fuel consumption 0,66 kg / kgf * h
Cruising supersonic flight time:
7000 km / 2100 km / h = 3,33 hours.
thrust in this mode 2 * 15800 kgf = 31600 kgf
Fuel consumption - 0,33 kg / kgf * h.
The weight:
Maximum 70580 kg
Normal 48590 kg (refill 52%)
Normal 61490 kg (refill 100%)
Empty 35020 kg

[aviator65]

Thanks for getting ahead. Removed from the tongue, so to speak. I already wrote earlier that I hit the MiG-31 receiver at one time was quite worked out. I would like to hope that he will finally be in full demand, as well as the OKB. Mikoyan.

[GHOST29RUS]

I hope the developers will create a worthy replacement for the MiG-31. Good luck in their development!

[el.krokodil]

what an interesting discussion however, there is a saying: the supply pocket does not pull! .. well, the creation of such a high-tech complex will spur the industry ... and someday it will probably be possible to sell it for good money .. if of course they will .. or I'm wrong ..

[GSH-18]

Quote: el.krokodil

what an interesting discussion of laughing, however, there is a saying: a stock pocket does not pull!

HOW pulls! Upgrading will take a lot of money! Plus, this "modernization" will uselessly occupy airfields (of which we have not a lot). Then, the maintenance of this fleet is far from a penny!

Quote: el.krokodil

and someday maybe it can be sold for good money .. if of course they will .. or I'm wrong ..

Will these things be told to someone later on? Most countries use conventional fighters armed with interceptor missiles for such purposes.

[izGOI]

In the mid-80s, they began to talk a little more about Soviet weapons. After reviewing the data of the MiG-31, the commander of the Israeli Air Force said: "We need to buy three of these. One is for TO, the second is in readiness, the third is in the sky. Enough to cover all of Israel!" Such is the praise from an ally of a potential enemy.
The deal, however, did not take place, the United States did not allow them to buy weapons not from them, for which Israel is still angry at Amers.
But this is about the MiG-31, I hope that they will replace it with such that they still buy it, and they will not look at the amers.

[GSH-18]

Quote: izGOI

The deal, however, did not take place, the United States was not allowed to buy weapons not from them

I’m saying, who the hell are you?

[nemo778]

Dear Gesha! Your reasoning. to say the least delusional !!! I won’t persuade you! But if you are not lazy? Watch the movie! It's not a topic, but YOU look carefully !! This can also be trash !!! Nowadays, the perfect highly accurate weapon. Satellite etc !!!! Maybe they are not needed? Enough general army army or airborne? So in the Air Force !!! There is a special forces! To solve their narrowly specialized tasks !!! Do not confuse GOD'S gift with fried eggs !!

[Leshka]

we will wait with nontirpenia

[Romin]

Air defense complex on the wings a priori could not be bad) God forbid

[S_Baykala]

Dear! You argue about which is better - a radar or a MIG 31 link. Purely hypothetically imagine the situation that we are arguing in a century in 14-15 about which is better: a shield or chain mail? Each system not only complements the other, but more importantly duplicates or insures.