Three-line masterpiece

111
Three-line masterpiece


How to create a Mosin rifle - the most famous Russian weapon The First World

The SI Mosin rifle, the Russian “trilinear”, became one of the most recognizable and well-known symbols of not only the First World War, but also of all victories and defeats of Russian weapons in the first half of the 20th century, from the Russian-Japanese war 1904-1905 . and ending with the bloody epic of the Great Patriotic. In terms of its characteristics, at the time of its adoption, it was by no means particularly outstanding compared to its peers. Glory and a long fate - modifications of the "trilinea" are in service in different countries and are in demand among weapon lovers so far - have provided her with amazing simplicity and reliability.

“Shop” vs. “Monochargers”

Vigorous research on the creation of a multiply-charged rifle, operating on the "magazine principle" of the filing of the cartridge, was deployed in the second half of the nineteenth century in all the leading countries of Europe. Civil War 1861-1865 in the United States, in the battles of which Spencer and Henry’s magazine rifles were widely used, it was convincingly proved that the future was not for single-shot weapons, but for magazine-based infantry weapons.

As a reaction to these events, in 1882, by decision of the Minister of War, P.S. Vannovsky was created "Special Commission for testing shop guns." The Commission was headed by a prominent Russian gunsmith, Major-General N.I. Chagin, and its membership included gunsmiths, such as Alexander von der Hoven, a prominent specialist in the field of small arms and the author of many scientific papers. Since July, 1883, the artillery officer Sergey Ivanovich Mosin, who was then the head of the tool shop at the Tula Arms Plant, became involved in the commission’s work.

Commission N.I. Chagin did not, fortunately, become another “paper project”. In the incomplete seven years of her work, specialists and designers have studied and tested over 150 shop systems for military-style guns. Among them were the gun systems of famous foreign designers - Hotchkiss, Remington, Winchester, Fruvirta, Gra-Kropachek, Lee, Larsen, Mannlicher, Mauser and others. At the same time, various systems of Russian gunsmiths were studied, as well as the internal and side shops offered by them.

It is important to note that, although the Russian arms school was far from leading in Europe, nevertheless, among its representatives were many bright nuggets and inventors. All of them were either professional master gunsmiths (Kvashnevsky, Malkov, Varaksin, Ignatovich, Sergeev), or officers (Veltishchev, Tenner, Vitts, Lutkovsky, Tsymbalyuk, Mosin and others). In the framework of the Commission N.I. Chagin all had the opportunity to offer, test, discuss their products in the course of open discussions. The Commission worked openly, seriously and in good faith.


Sergey Mosin. Photos from ITAR-TASS dossier


Despite the fact that in the entire arms world they relied specifically on magazine rifles, there were quite a few traditionalists in Russian army circles who seriously believed that even by the end of the 19th century the bullet was “still the same fool” ". Among them there were, sometimes, very respected figures.

The famous military theorist and teacher, General M.I. Dragomirov was not only a staunch skeptic about shop guns, but also firearms in general. “All the improvements in firearms,” wrote General Dragomirov, “only lead to the fact that the bullet becomes a little less stupid, but it has never been and never will be good.” In his article "Army Notes" M.I. Dragomirov called shooting from the magazine rifles "stupid chatter", basically defended the thesis that single-shot rifles are better for the Russian soldier, since they are easier to "shop" and are much easier to set up. General Dragomirov was unfortunately not alone in his negative perception of shop-guns.

The practical work of re-equipping the Russian army with a multiply charged magazine rifle became a reality only after the French “arms revolution”. In 1886, France was the first in Europe to adopt the Lebel 8-mm rifle with a barrel-mounted magazine and a new cartridge with smokeless powder and a shell bullet. Following France in Europe, a wave of re-equipment swept across rifles of a similar type. Immediately after the French began to rearm Germany (Mauser rifle, 1888), then Austria-Hungary (Mannlicher, 1889) and other countries: Great Britain (Lee-Metford, 1889), USA (Crag-Jurgenson, 1889) ), Switzerland (Schmidt-Rubin, 1889).

Not wanting to remain, as before the Crimean War, on the sidelines of the rearmament process, Russia was forced to dramatically intensify research and design work on the creation of a domestic magazine rifle.

Gunsmith Mendeleev

The invention of smokeless powder by Frenchman Paul Viel in 1884 opened a new era in the development of weapons, and not only manual firearms. Smokeless powder more than three times increased the energy of the shot in comparison with the traditional smoky (black) powder. Accordingly, the cartridges with it became lighter, the shot was more flattened, the position of the shooter was not indicated by a huge cloud of smoke from a rifle, smokeless powder was less afraid of moisture and was more durable during storage.

At the end of the nineteenth century, smokeless powder was already produced in Russia in industrial quantities. An important role in the creation of the industrial cycle of manufacturing smokeless powder was played by the works of the great Russian scientist D.I. Mendeleev. He was the one who had the idea to replace the thermal drying of the primary mass of gunpowder with chemical drying with alcohol, which immediately made the manufacture of smokeless powder easier and safer by several orders of magnitude.

The creation of a new magazine rifle chambered with smokeless powder was probably very much accelerated if it were not for the rash decision of Russian military minister P.S. Vannovsky on the preliminary (before the release of the magazine rifle) production of a reduced-caliber single-shot rifle.


War Minister of Russia Peter Vannovsky. Photo: Fine Art Images / Heritage Images / Getty Images / Fotobank.ru


This decision, which put the Mosin rifle back into service for at least two years, was without a doubt the result of the strong power in the Russian military science. Their undisputed intellectual leader, General Dragomirov, did not get tired of saying and writing that his ideal of small arms was a small caliber rifle - "about eight millimeters, for a cartridge with pressed gunpowder and a bullet in a steel shell, but always single-shot."

Archaic reliability

The popular name of the Mosin rifle - “three-line” - comes from the old system of measuring the caliber of the rifle barrel in the “lines”. The Russian “line” is a pre-revolutionary technical measure of length equal to one tenth of an inch, or 2,54 mm. Three "lines" gave, accordingly, the caliber of a rifle, 7,62 mm, which is understandable to modern man.

The “trilinea” cartridge was created based on the 7,62-mm cartridge of Colonel N.F. Rogovtseva is modeled on the new 8-mm Austrian M1888 cartridge for that period, but equipped, unlike the latter, with smokeless powder and having a lead bullet in a nickel silver shell. The innovative nickel silver cap of the cartridge was more durable than the old copper one; it did not rust and did not wear out the barrel as much as the steel one.

The Russian 7,62R cartridge turned out to be highly technological in manufacturing, stable in ballistic characteristics. In energy, it was slightly inferior to the recognized Western cartridge "grandees": the English 7,71 mm cartridge Lee Enfield, the American 30-06 Springfield, or the German cartridge 7,92 Mauser. At the same time, already at the moment of adopting the Russian 7,62R cartridge, it had an unavoidable feature that gradually made this ammunition more and more archaic - the protruding rim, roughly speaking, the protruding edge on the bottom of the sleeve.

In cartridges with a sleeve with a rim, the ammunition stops in the chamber is carried out by the rim of the rifle in the stump (end) of the barrel. In more technologically advanced cartridges with an annular groove (i.e., without a rim, instead of it, a groove is made at the bottom of the sleeve), for example, in 7,92 mm Mauser cartridges, this emphasis is provided by the slope of the cartridge case into the cartridge chute ( which rest against the groove on the sleeve).


Cartridge for a three-line rifle of the 1891 model of the year (Mosin rifle) with a bead (welt) - Russian 7,62 mm R. Photo: Vladimir Pesnya / RIA News


The last design in terms of production - and in the manufacture of the cartridge, and in the manufacture of the rifle - significantly more difficult, because requires increased accuracy of manufacture of the slope of the liner and the corresponding section of the chamber. In the continuous production of weapons and ammunition in the conditions of the Russian industrial culture, it was impossible to achieve acceptable agreement between the corresponding parameters of the cartridge case and the rifle chamber, according to the then military experts.

Only because of the technological backwardness of the Russian arms factories, the archaic, although very reliable, cartridge with the rim (welt) received, now forever, its characteristic name - the Russian 7,62 mm R.

The decision to put into service precisely the rant patron, of course, could not have been in vain. The main part of all difficulties overcome by S.I. Mosin in creating the “trilinea”, came to the elimination of the problem of “welcoming” the welt cartridge of other cartridges in the store and parts of the bolt group of the rifle. In order to achieve trouble-free charging, Mosin developed a special rifle feeder mechanism, the “cut-off reflector”, a simple but very important element of the rifle design. The function of the “cut-off reflector” is that the upper cartridge of the magazine filled with the movement of the bolt remains separated (clipped) from other cartridges in the magazine, and therefore is fed into the rifle chamber without interference. All other cartridges are under the ridge of the "cut-off reflector", which is released only at the relevant, strictly fixed positions of the shutter.

Competition with Leon Nagun

In 1889, S.I. Mosin put his three-line (7,62 mm) infantry rifle, based on his previous, single-shot model, to the competition of the Ministry of War. Some constructive ideas of this rifle were borrowed, apparently, from the Austrian rifle of the Mannlicher system, tested in the same year, with a row loading (one above the other) of a mid-size shop.

A little later, Mosin’s products for the same competition were presented with a Nagant rifle, which was actively lobbied in the Russian military with its enchanting energy by Belgian entrepreneur Leon Nagan. In October 1889, he personally brought a rifle of 8 mm (3,15 lines) and 500 cartridges to it to the newly established “Commission for the development of small-caliber rifles”. Thus began a fairly sharp competition between the Russian and Belgian designers.

Belgian Leon had very good connections on all floors of the Russian military department. Subsequently, he was able to successfully "punch" into the armaments of the Russian army a very controversial, in terms of providing speed of fire, the model of his revolver - the famous "Nagant."

In the competition with the Mosin rifle, Leon Nagant’s initial lobbying positions were somewhat weaker: just the day before Belgium refused to produce the Nagant system rifle, which lost in the competition in all respects to the German Mauser rifle. Both rifles passed rifle and operational tests in the Izmailovsky, Pavlovsky, 147 Samara regiments and in the Guards First Battalion.

It is curious that the soldiers and officers of the military units who conducted the tests unanimously spoke in favor of the Nagant rifle. Later in the Russian Defense Ministry, their clearly unpatriotic decision was explained by the fact that Mosin's rifle rifles were made at the Tula Arms Plant, allegedly in a hurry, which could not, say, not affect the overall quality.

During the voting in the “Commission for the development of small-caliber rifles”, the majority of the Belgian Nagant rifle were also in favor of adopting the Russian army. 14 people voted for the Nagan rifle, including the most authoritative experts Chagin, Rediger and von der Hoven. For the Mosin rifle spoke only 10 experts.

The future of the Mosinskaya “trilinea” was decided thanks to the tough position of the weapons and ammunition factory inspector V.N. Bestuzhev-Ryumin and Professor of the Mikhailovsky Artillery Academy V.L. Chebyshev. Their decisive argument, which was also supported by Chagin and Rediger, was the indication that the Mosin rifle was much simpler and cheaper to manufacture.


Inspector General of weapons and ammunition factories Vasily Nikolayevich Bestuzhev-Rumin. Photo: US Library of Congress


In addition, the production of the Mosin rifle was technologically based on the machines that were already producing the Berdan rifle in service with Russia, which made it possible to start the production of the Russian gun much faster than the gun of Nagant. V.L. Chebyshev, whose authority among the gun specialists of that time was indisputable, specifically emphasized in his report that operational checks showed the absolute advantage of the Mosin rifle. The delays in firing for the entire time of testing the Mosin rifle were recorded 217, while the rifle of the Nagant system for the same number of firing gave 557 failures.

“I cannot agree with the conclusion of the majority of experts,” Professor Chebyshev emphasized in the final of his report, “that both tested systems are equally good, this is obvious if only because the Mosin system has huge advantages over the Nagant system.”

As a result of several stages of discussion, the Commission adopted the SI rifle. Mosin. However, taking into account that members of the Commission Kabakov and Rogovtsev also took part in its design, and some elements of the system were proposed by L. Nagan, it was decided to call the rifle “the Russian three-line rifle of the 1891 model of the year”.

Tsar Alexander III, who for some reason is called the nationalist king, having familiarized himself with the final report of the Commission, deleted the word “Russian” from the name of the rifle. So a wonderful product. Mosin, in contradiction to all international arms traditions, received a completely faceless - without national and design pointers - the serial name: "three-line rifle of the 1891 model of the year."

No upgrade required

In the well-known book of Vladimir and Valentin Mavrodin "Russian rifle" it is stated that the Mosin rifle of the 1891 model of the year was "the best of all foreign similar models of small arms". It is unlikely that such a categorical assessment is objective - the British Lee-Metford rifle or the famous German Mauser of the 1888 model, in no way inferior to the Russian “trilinear”, and exceeded it in a number of important positions. However, what was unquestionably the Russian rifle was good, because it was in its unique simplicity and reliability, in maintainability and undemanding of manufacturing technology.

The simplicity of the “Mosinka” design is probably a kind of weapon absolute. Suffice it to say that the rifle bolt - the most difficult part of any gun - consists of only seven parts, and disassembly-assembly of the bolt can be performed without any tools. This incredible simplicity provided a very long release of the rifle without any significant modernization - there is simply nothing to modernize in the Mosinka. A very important advantage of the rifle is the presence of a detachable battle mask of the bolt, which, if broken, could be replaced with any other part — all parts of the mosquito, regardless of the manufacturer, are interchangeable.

In 1891, simultaneously with the infantry modification of the rifle, the dragoon and Cossack three-line rifles were adopted.

The infantry rifle weighed without a bayonet with an empty 3,99 kg magazine, and after taking the barrel lining, protecting the shooter’s fingers from the burn, and a long ramrod, its weight increased to 4,2 kg without a bayonet. Of the infantry rifles of the European powers, the Mosin rifle was the longest - 1306 mm.

The dragoon type rifle was seven centimeters shorter (the barrel instead of the 80 cm became the 73 cm). It almost did not affect the weight of the rifle - it only decreased by 300. The Cossack rifle differed from the dragoons only by the lack of a bayonet, and for the rider it was uncomfortable - heavy and poorly balanced.


Three-line rifle sample 1891 year. Photo: Imperial War Museums


Since the beginning of the First World War, the Cossacks began to re-equip themselves with the trophy cavalry "Mauser", which, although it was also quite heavy, but at least significantly better balanced.

In the shop "Mosinki" placed five rounds. The initial bullet speed of a standard factory cartridge was 620 m / s. In the special literature comes across an indication that the Mosin rifle bullet with 50 steps punched 16-35 one-inch boards. If the first digit (16 boards) can still be somehow believed, then the second one is clearly inspired by “hurray-patriotic” inspiration. This same “inspiration” also includes such a frequently encountered indicator in the literature of a rifle combat as the greatest target range, which is defined in 1900 meters.

The problem is that the “sighting range” in 1900 meters can be targeted only to a railway carriage and that, probably, if it will be left overboard to the shooter. A full-length human figure is completely covered by a rifle front sight while aiming at 300 meters. At 600 meters, aiming at a person with the help of an open sight is the same as aiming at him without any sight at all - at “maybe”, along the barrel. Even with the use of a fourfold optical sight, the practical range of fire from the “Mosinka” (i.e., the distance at which you can really aim and actually reach) hardly exceeds 800, the maximum is 900 meters. However, all the infantry rifles of Europe, produced in one generation with the “Mosinka”, provide approximately the same practical result.

Abroad, the S.I. Mosin rifle is known as the Mosin rifle system, or Mosin-Nagant, in memory of the borrowing of some elements of the Nagant system into the Russian trilinear design. The Artillery Committee of Russia issued a decree of 25 on November 1891 to award Colonel S.I. Mosin the prestigious Great Mikhailovsky Prize, which is awarded once every five years.

The adoption of the Mosin infantry rifle has required significant costs for the organization of the full production cycle, including gunpowder, cartridge and weapon components. The Ministry of War has requested 156,5 million rubles for this purpose. On the report of the Minister of War, Tsar Alexander III imposed a resolution uncharacteristic for him: "The sum is terrifying, but there is nothing to do, it is necessary to proceed." The Russian army never later regretted this decision of the Tsar-Peacemaker.
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  1. +12
    12 August 2014 10: 14
    Its fit in a row with AK to put.
    And do not belittle the value, otherwise there are unfortunate historians who shed tears over the poor soldiers who had to fight with the three-ruler against German assault rifles
    1. +13
      12 August 2014 11: 58
      The main weapon of the German infantry from the beginning to
      the end of the war was the Mauser rifle.
      But the Red Army quickly rearmament on PPSh.
      1. 0
        12 August 2014 12: 42
        Are you confusing anything?
        1. +4
          12 August 2014 14: 43
          No. The so-called "Schmeisers" were only in the Waffen SS,
          but on STUG44 they did not have time to rearm.
          The Wehrmacht fought "from bell to bell" with a 5-round manual
          Mauser rifle 1898 release.

          In the Soviet army, EVERYTHING was with PPSh by the beginning of 44 years.
          Except, perhaps, cavalry, which had carbines.
          1. -6
            12 August 2014 15: 11
            Go hangover, otherwise you and Tsahal will soon have an ultrasound scan.
          2. +1
            12 August 2014 16: 44
            In the Soviet army, EVERYTHING was with PPSh by the beginning of 44 years.


            Is that all right? At the beginning of 1944? AND no one a three-line infantryman? I’ll go to our World War II museum and say that voyaka uh revealed their cunning plan to hide the truth about the real armament of Soviet soldiers who fought in the Belarusian offensive operation.
            Of course, they planned to replace the three-ruler before the Second World War, but not with a submachine gun, but with a semi-automatic rifle. By the way, this was almost done in the units of the highest combat readiness - in the expositions of the Brest Fortress, the most part of the found weapons of the Soviet weapons found was the SVT, in second place were the RPM, and the three-ruler was about the same as machine guns. Only now before the war they did not manage to rearm, and during the war it was expensive.
            But to claim that since 1944
            all
            were with PPSh - it does not fit in my head.
            1. 0
              12 August 2014 18: 03
              There is data on the release of PCA during the Great Patriotic War: 6 million.
              How many trilines were made during the Second World War? I did not find
              data. Help.
              1. +1
                12 August 2014 18: 05
                12 million
                1. +3
                  12 August 2014 19: 56
                  Thank. So I was wrong. I thought it was released
                  PPSh more than rifles.
                  1. horseradish
                    +2
                    20 August 2014 19: 57
                    according to the states, there were 2 companies in the army in the battalion with rifles, one company of submachine gunners, and vice versa in the guard
              2. 0
                12 August 2014 18: 52
                Quote: voyaka uh
                There is data on the release of PCA during the Great Patriotic War: 6 million.

                This does not mean anything. The part was lost, worn out, some remained in warehouses
                And it was really easier to service Mosinka + it’s not always possible to save time for cleaning
                1. 0
                  12 August 2014 19: 06
                  And it was really easier to service Mosinka + it’s not always possible to save time for cleaning


                  Plus, it’s not enough when they say that spare parts for it are cheaper.
          3. Chegevara21
            -1
            13 August 2014 02: 03
            Here is the mp40 schmizer. Comrades, who knows where to buy trophies? Very necessary hi
            1. +5
              13 August 2014 06: 28
              Quote: Chegevara21
              Comrades, who knows where to buy trophies? Very necessary

              Call toll-free number 02, they will tell you.
          4. +3
            13 August 2014 06: 09
            PPSh or PPS could not replace the Mosin rifle in any way because of the big difference in the effectiveness of firing at a distance of more than 100-200 meters and in lethal force. Until the end of the war, all units of the Soviet army used both pistols - machine guns and rifles and carbines. Yes, special subunits of machine gunners were created, for example, platoons as part of a company, a tank assault, or assault engineering groups.
        2. predator.3
          0
          12 August 2014 20: 01
          full-time armament of the German platoon: In total, the armament of the infantry platoon was 5 submachine guns, 4 light machine guns, 11 pistols, 34 rifles and one rocket launcher. The platoon’s ammunition consisted of 1048 rounds for pistols and machine guns, 4600 rounds for machine guns, 2040 rifle rounds, about 60 hand grenades and 50 minutes for a mortar.
          agree, 4 machine guns MG-34 is not sickly!
          1. 0
            13 August 2014 12: 37
            Wehrmacht infantry firepower was given by M34 machine guns.
            Their fire was mistaken for the fire of submachine guns,
            which were few.
            German infantrymen willingly took SVT and PPSh. PPSh did not refuse
            in winter, unlike the "Schmeiser", in which the grease froze in the direct magazine, and the spring could not push the cartridges.
            1. 0
              13 August 2014 12: 58
              Quote: voyaka uh
              unlike Schmeiser

              MP-40 want to say? The store was with him, that really was from Schmeisser. But the wedge of cartridges in it occurred not only in the cold, but also in dust and even with "dry" lubrication.
              1. +1
                13 August 2014 14: 42
                MP-40 had the nickname "Schmeiser" in the Red Army, although it was invented by Volmer.
                Flat shop had a certain advantage - compactness,
                It is convenient to carry on yourself (even in the tops of boots) - you can take with you a lot of equipped stores. But the springs get tired and start to fail.
                The PPSh drum was wildly uncomfortable and recharged for a long time and there was nowhere to carry it: they clung a bag to a waist belt, where it hung out and hit its legs. Therefore, we switched to a flat shop as soon as possible.
                1. 0
                  13 August 2014 15: 01
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  at. But the springs get tired and start to fail.


                  MP 38 - Causes of Failures (Design Error?)

                  http://warfiles.ru/show-19524-mp-38-prichiny-otkazov-oshibka-pri-konstruirovanii
                  .html
                2. 0
                  13 August 2014 18: 45
                  Hey weapons historian, how old are you?
      2. 0
        12 August 2014 12: 43
        Quote: voyaka uh
        But the Red Army quickly rearmament on PPSh.

        Come on, PP is a cheap ersatz useless at distances of over 200m, it was just easier to make them, the mosquito’s main weapon was before the war.
        1. +8
          12 August 2014 13: 38
          Come on, PP is a cheap ersatz useless at distances of over 200m, it was just easier to make them, the mosquito’s main weapon was before the war.


          No tales about ersatz. Erzats are not distributed individually by the Supreme Command. And for the use of ersatzians do not create special strike units.
          1. -1
            12 August 2014 14: 11
            Do not confuse anything? piece by piece in 1941 the rate distributed only tanks, stories about UberPP which Stalin personally painted ordinary cheap bikes.
            1. +4
              12 August 2014 14: 21
              Do not confuse anything? piece by piece in 1941 the rate distributed only tanks,

              Will the testimony of Chief Artillery Voronov fit?
        2. 0
          14 August 2014 11: 38
          Quote: Nayhas
          PP is a cheap ersatz

          The "cheap ersatz" versus the MP40 has a higher rate of fire (900 to 500) and a magazine capacity (71 to 32). The rate of fire is like an ultrasound.
      3. +4
        12 August 2014 13: 49
        Great knowledge of the subject! So for reference, by the time the Second World War began, the 04/401 staff operated according to which the Red Army was intensively re-equipping with SVT and AVT, which were supposed to become the main infantry weapons, carbines and Mosin rifles should have remained only with signalmen, group weapons calculations, sleds and others. combatants - but they also - for the purpose of unification and after arming the main combat units, it was planned to re-equip the AKT - automatic Tokarev carbine - reduced SVT - many carbines, unlike SVT, were not released in time, but I have a 1940 NSD for it and a circulation of 15000 copies. talks about the expected scale. In the rifle department (the minimum unit of the "battlefield") in the state there were 1-DP27, 8-SVT and 2 PPD.
        By the beginning of the war, many personnel units were staffed by SVT staff, but unfortunately a significant part of them were in the western districts where they died, but staffed units 04/401 from the Far East can be seen at the parade on November 7, 1941. Since 1942, graduation SVT was curtailed and Mosinok production began again - the main reason is the inability to ensure the production of SVT in wartime in the right quantity and with good quality.
        Well, PPSh and previously PPS were never the main weapon of the Red Army infantry, the rifle has always been the main one, although from the end of 1943. companies of machine gunners armed with PPSh were formed - but such companies were created as purely assault units for fighting in cities and for use in tank landings.
        1. 0
          12 August 2014 14: 06
          For reference, SVT did not pass the test of war. A lot of things were supposed, but in fact, in December 41, there were 250 PPShs in reserve and 160 PPShs were allocated for arming two ski battalions leaving for the front only by direct order of the Headquarters.
          although since the end of 1943. companies of machine gunners armed with PPSh were formed - but such companies were created as purely assault units for fighting in cities and for use in tank landings.

          Order No. 0406 on the creation of machine gunners' mouths is 12 October 1941 g. There is no talk of any assault groups and such landings, but the order clearly states why this is done.
          ORDER FOR THE INTRODUCTION OF AUTOMATIC MOTORS INTO THE STATE OF RIVER RELATIONS

          No. 0406 12 October 1941

          In modern infantry combat, massive * automatic fire represents tremendous firepower, hampering the enemy’s maneuver in defense and decisively suppressing its manpower during the offensive.

          Automatic fire, used suddenly and with a large number of machine guns, allows you to immediately upset the battle formations of the enemy and inflict a severe defeat on him.


          The organization of machine guns existing in our infantry does not give the regiment commander the opportunity to decisively influence the enemy, both during the offensive and in defense with massive automatic fire and thereby dominate him.

          The same organization does not allow the senior infantry commander to have in his hands a constant, maneuverable, strong fire fist of machine gunners, using which in any combat situation, the senior infantry chief could firmly impose his will on the enemy.

          To eliminate the existing shortcoming in the automatic fire of the state infantry division No. 04/600, I order:

          1. Enter in each rifle regiment at the disposal of the regiment commander a company of fighters armed with machine guns (PPSh) consisting of 100 people.

          2. Name a company - a company of machine gunners.

          3. Rifle regiment commanders make extensive use of company machine gunners to create decisive fire superiority over the enemy in close combat, in ambushes, during detours, searches, and to cover maneuvers using suddenness and massive automatic fire.

          People's Commissar of Defense I. STALIN
          1. +5
            12 August 2014 14: 18
            Quote: Droid
            For reference, SVT could not stand the test of war

            Well, well, about 15 years ago, after reading smart books, I also thought so - you understand this is not a reliable and bad rifle! Only then I had a chance to shoot the light of 1940g / in., In order not to kill the pipe, I fired ammunition with a reduced charge, well, so there were three regular recharges from 4 shots, after which I disassembled to clean it and it turned out that they had not cleaned it almost from the moment release so much shit there.
            But the war did not pass the test, not the SVT but the arms industry, which could not produce them in sufficient quantities with sufficient quality.
            1. -1
              12 August 2014 14: 25
              such you understand is not a reliable and bad rifle!

              The gas regulator alone is worth what.
              And about the reliability of CBT ...
              1. +5
                12 August 2014 15: 09
                So what does that prove? Yes, not anything - either lay out the entire document, or do not lay out the tablet torn out of context. Where trained fighters could normally serve it, it served until the end of the war (the Marines used it and considered it quite a worthy apparatus in 1945), but in the Army of the regular military at the beginning of the war, it was raised and, accordingly, there was no one to operate it normally, but where were normal professional "users" SVT was in service until the victory. Well, in spite of this, they released these "unreliable" and "complex" rifles 1,7 million and 60000 snipers, the mass production ended in 1942, but they were also made in 43-44, the final release was completed on January 3, 45, so these are the wreckers were releasing an "unusable" rifle almost to the point of victory, in terms of volume only Garand overtook it, all German self-loading, along with the attackers, are only approaching this figure. And the main reason was still in the volumes - in January 1942, the evacuated TOZ reached the output of 50000 SVT per month, and at this time Izhevsk was giving 12000 three-lines a day.
                1. padonok.71
                  +4
                  12 August 2014 16: 11
                  Such a fact deserves attention. Wehrmacht soldiers greatly appreciated the captured SVTshki (especially the sniper version). Deutch even one time the release of a cartridge under it arranged. We noted such features as accuracy, ease of use and maintenance, RELIABILITY. Speer Walter scolded her.
                  For example, Otto Schlieffmann (Kampfgroup Dammerung "Twilight") in his memoirs recalled how, in burning Berlin, 45, with tears in his eyes, he hid his "Martha" (as he called her) in a sewer manhole. And in the photo of those years there are many "handsome men" posing with this mechanism.
                  But with Garands something did not come across.
                  1. 0
                    13 August 2014 11: 58
                    SVT Germans managed to capture a large number in 1941
                    in the warehouses of the border strip.
                    And Garand could only be captured theoretically in the battle of the Ardennes in
                    1944.
                2. -1
                  12 August 2014 17: 21
                  Why could DP, Maxim and PPSh could normally serve, but SVT could not? What is so complicated about her?
                  Have you tried to disassemble a rifle in a battle to switch the gas regulator? Already for this decision alone, a huge minus.
                  1. +2
                    12 August 2014 18: 03
                    PPSh in general to what you dragged? By that time, Maksimka had been in service for a long time and had time to lick its design, but despite this, machine gunners were trained in separate training manuals and more than ordinary infantry, and they devoted a lot of time to training the service, if you are not aware then at maximum and adjust the gap it is necessary, and a special torque wrench is included in the kit to adjust the tension of the return spring. With DP, everything is not so simple either, DPM did not appear because there was nothing else for degtyarev to do - so he decided, “I won’t go, but I won’t think of what else can be changed!”.
                    Quote: Droid
                    Have you tried to disassemble a rifle in a battle to switch the gas regulator?

                    That’s why I didn’t try to fight with SVT - and you probably fought with it for more than a year? But I managed to shoot several times from it, but it’s only a disaster - I have never had to rearrange the regulator, I normally ate both our and Finnish butterflies.
                    1. +1
                      12 August 2014 18: 16
                      PPSh in general to what you dragged?

                      Moreover, there were no complaints from the troops against him, unlike the SVT.

                      With DP, everything is also not so simple

                      And where is the order to curtail the production of PD? Why did this affect only SVT and DS? And with PPSh there were also problems close to fatal. Nevertheless, the production of PCA was established by all means, and the production of CBT was simply curtailed.

                      But I managed to shoot several times from it, but it’s only a disaster - I have never had to rearrange the regulator, I normally ate both our and Finnish butterflies.

                      How many times is that? And in battle, especially in the summer and fall of the 41st, they shot several times. And when the rifle starts to stutter and you need to switch the regulator and you understand that now you have to disassemble the rifle and pulling the piston with one hand to turn the regulator with the other key ... I think there were a lot of matyukov. And the one who at least once got into such a situation then put the regulator to the maximum. Forever. And he taught others the same thing. And the regulator at maximum is accelerated wear and damage.
                      1. padonok.71
                        0
                        12 August 2014 19: 09
                        What are the fatal problems with PCA?
                      2. +1
                        12 August 2014 19: 19
                        Fiber. More precisely, its absence. The PCA used a fiber damper shutter. Already on August 12, 1941, the director of one of the military factories was reporting that the production of PPSh had risen due to the lack of fiber. All attempts to find a substitute ended in failure and only on February 23, 1942, a shock absorber made of parchment leather was put into production. Until that moment, the fate of PPSh was in the balance.
                      3. +1
                        12 August 2014 20: 30
                        Quote: Droid
                        Moreover, there were no complaints from the troops against him, unlike the SVT.

                        The question is not about complaints from the military, but why you put the free-lock system together, and if the comparison with the DP can still be correct, then the PCA is clearly superfluous. And by the way, if there were no complaints from the troops, then why in 42 or 43g (I don’t remember exactly when to look for laziness) did he have a receiver in the shop area? Just so nothing to do?
                        Quote: Droid
                        Why did this affect only SVT and DS?

                        Again, distort and dump two systems in one heap? not a very beautiful move, DS-39 was discontinued before the war, just a few days, and the SVT was discontinued only in January 45. and the reasons are different there.
                        In general, you have a very interesting discussion when the pieces of paper confirm your words, you pull them out, when not, you start remembering the battles of the "summer-autumn of 1941", etc., which is easier to quote the document ordering to curtail the mass production of SVT, the main reasons are indicated in it.

                        Quote: Droid
                        How many times is that? And in battle, especially in the summer and fall of the 41st, they shot several times.

                        I didn’t count, because I don’t have such a habit, I burned several hundred rounds.
                        Yes, the SVT is far from ideal, there are enough jambs (at least the same rupture of the sleeve during the deformation of the combat stops), but the rifle is quite adequate and quite reliable.
                      4. 0
                        12 August 2014 21: 11
                        Again, distort and dump two systems in one heap?

                        No juggling. There are systems whose production was built up no matter what, but there are production systems which have been curtailed or simply stopped.
                        SVT of the last.
                        Let's go in order.
                        In the first half of 41 g. SVT is mass produced, by stream, the production of PCA is only being deployed. The second half of 41 g, the war, the production of SVT continues, in Izhevsk the production of three-rulers is launched, the production of PCA fell due to the lack of fiber and what will happen to him next is not clear to anyone. Instead of abandoning the PCA, an intensive search is underway for a fiber substitute. From the beginning of 42 g, the production of CBT is sharply reduced, and PPSh, after replacing the fiber, begin to increase. Us that self-loading is no longer needed? We’ll get along with three? Since May 42, the production of AVT-40 has been launched. Neither SVT nor AVT were popular among the troops, unlike the PCA.
                        Why are PPSh and DP, according to comments from the troops, being improved, but not SVT? Or could not? Why, instead of eliminating comments and modernization, production is simply minimized to small series? Maybe there is nothing to improve there, maybe a new development from scratch is needed?
                        In May, 45 g of CBT are removed from production, and three and PPSh with PPS continue to rivet. As a result of the war, they simply forgot about SVT; nobody needs it.
                        It is especially interesting in this light that the plates from the shooting course of publication 89 look. There, in addition to AK / AKM, AK74 and SVD, there are three and PPSh with PPS. SVT is not there.
                      5. 0
                        13 August 2014 12: 44
                        Well, and what does this confirm? - summarize.
                        If the rifle was extremely bad then it would be removed from production along with the DS39 but this did not happen, while in wartime it would have been permanently removed from production in order to free machines and workers for the production of other weapons, but instead they reduced the volume but production continued - they wanted to bring to mind? Yes, no, they didn’t make any global changes in the design (AVT didn’t count because Tokarev was already in the experimental designs for the possibility of altering the SVT in the AVT). - I.e. the rifle wasn’t as bad as they are trying to teach, but the front needed huge volumes of rifle and here it couldn’t compete with the mosquito.
                        Now that concerns users who could serve other types of weapons and SVT could not - it’s very good that you remembered PPSh, just forgot or ignored the strengthening of the magazine slot and what it is connected with.
                        And this was due to complaints from the troops for poking cartridges and other bullets related to the supply of cartridges. When analyzing flights, it turned out that the fighters often use PPSh with a disk magazine in the form of a stool, as a result, the receiver is deformed in the area of ​​the store’s nest and feed problems begin, since it was pointless to prohibit such non-targeted use, they went along the path of least resistance - they simply strengthened this place.
                  2. +2
                    12 August 2014 19: 04
                    SVT could not? What is so complicated about her?


                    SVT could also serve well. Only now, the purchase price for the CBT was 880 rubles, for the three-line - 140. Is the CBT 6 times better than the three-line? By the way, the purchase price for the DP light machine gun was 787 rubles, that is, less than that of the SVT.

                    Why DP, Maxim and PPSh could normally serve


                    I suspect, if their analogues were 6 times cheaper, their production would also be reduced.
                    And you also need to consider the cost of servicing weapons. In order to replace CBT parts or a three-line, if necessary, in addition to direct hands, these same details are needed, which again sends us to the issue of purchase prices.
                  3. 0
                    13 August 2014 11: 18
                    Exactly. As far as I remember, according to statistics, about 30% of cases of SVT failure were associated with the loss of parts. In general, as the main weapon for the worker-peasant army, this rifle was not suitable. But with targeted use it turned out to be very useful.
            2. 0
              12 August 2014 19: 01
              Quote: gross kaput
              But the war did not pass the test, not the SVT but the arms industry, which could not produce them in sufficient quantities with sufficient quality.

              Well, if Mosinki let out very simplified ones to saturate the troops, then what can I say about SVT. Let me let you know if you would set up SVT factories in every village, probably? The industry had other problems with a roof than shaking over a complicated structure.
              1. 0
                12 August 2014 20: 31
                something there was utterly simplified?
                Quote: Pilat2009
                .You give free rein, would you set up factories for the production of CBT in every village, probably? The industry had other problems with a higher roof than shaking over a complicated structure.

                First, you would have taught the history of the issue, and at the same time the mat part.
                1. padonok.71
                  0
                  12 August 2014 20: 55
                  I think the answers to the questions why this "did not work out" with SVT should be sought in the economic plane. I am convinced that SVT is a more than worthy product for its time.
                  The famous FN FAL was made with great caution precisely on SVT. And FN is good, but SVT is bad. So? But SVT will be somewhat better. Accuracy, mass, applicability, balance.
                2. 0
                  12 August 2014 21: 23
                  Quote: gross kaput
                  something there was utterly simplified?

                  Yes, at least the rejection of multiple bluing of the trunk and simplified processing of wooden parts
                  1. 0
                    12 August 2014 22: 41
                    Quote: Pilat2009
                    Yes, at least the refusal of multiple bluing

                    Where did you get this from? source in the studio.
                    Quote: Pilat2009
                    simplified processing of wooden parts

                    In more detail, what was this expressed in?
                    1. 0
                      12 August 2014 23: 28
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      Where did you get this from? source in the studio.

                      source-People's Commissar Novikov, who practically led the Izhevsk plant. book "In the days of trials" chapter "about the glorious Russian rifle"
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      In more detail, what was this expressed in?

                      do I have to go now to raise the sources?
                      hospoda, this was expressed in a single coating with varnish, manufacture of 3 years old wood and simplified machining, in short simplified the process as they could
                      1. +1
                        13 August 2014 13: 46
                        Well Duc Mosinks were produced "simplified to the limit" or those production processes - as it is fashionable to say now - were optimized? Do you want to look at the simplified samples of standard weapons to the limit? - take a look at the Volkssturm ersatz on the K98 base and everything will become clear at once. And the fact that the finishing treatment was reduced to a minimum, so it happens everywhere during a big war, only this does not affect the main combat properties, unlike really simplified designs to the limit.
                3. 0
                  12 August 2014 21: 33
                  Quote: gross kaput
                  and at the same time the mat part.

                  Will you argue that SVT is not more complicated than Mosinki in production? Or what is more reliable?
                  1. 0
                    12 August 2014 22: 20
                    Do you even know how to read, or just write? re-read previous posts and everything will be clear.
                    1. 0
                      12 August 2014 23: 39
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      and everything will be clear.

                      so it’s clear to me in general
                      The troops need a lot of weapons, reliable and preferably cheap, easy to manufacture.
                      What is even clearer?
                      1. 0
                        13 August 2014 21: 07
                        Quote: Pilat2009
                        Troops need a lot of weapons, reliable and preferably cheap

                        By the way, the situation is repeating itself: despite the appearance of many small arms, in our country they are in no hurry to switch from AK to another option, even the same Abakan did not go into the series en masse.
                        then that, too: "But the tests of war did not withstand the SVT and the arms industry, which could not produce them in sufficient quantities with sufficient quality."
                      2. 0
                        13 August 2014 21: 58
                        There is no need to compare incomparable things, but if you are so eager to flood on the topic of Abakan - so write an article there and discuss what and why.
    2. +1
      12 August 2014 12: 24
      He was the one who had the idea to replace the thermal drying of the primary mass of gunpowder with chemical drying with alcohol.
      Author Nikolay Lysenko

      In the novel "I have the honor!" V. Pikul writes:
      The great chemist Mendeleev in France by simply counting wagons with chemical raw materials
      He derived the formula of smokeless powder, which was kept in the strictest confidence.

      Is this true?
      1. +1
        12 August 2014 18: 07
        The composition of smokeless powder was not a secret for Mendeleev, for example, between the sea departments of England and Russia in 1890 there was an agreement on the mutual exchange of samples of pyroxylin powders. Therefore, Mendeleev officially received the necessary samples of gunpowder from the Ministry of the Sea, visited its production in England. A trip to France was also an acquaintance with the production, but the French were reluctant to share the details of the manufacture of their gunpowder.
        Upon returning to St. Petersburg, Mendeleev, as a result of experiments, made a discovery, having obtained (in an alcohol-ether mixture) a chemically homogeneous product called pyrocollodium, which became the basis of Mendeleev’s smokeless powder.
    3. vyatom
      +1
      12 August 2014 16: 38
      Wonderful article. And in the 41st year, the Wehrmacht had quite a few machines. In addition, we already had RPMs in service, and PCA began to arrive. So the three-ruler made a significant contribution to the victory over the enemy.
    4. 0
      13 August 2014 06: 02
      Among the Germans, the percentage of rifles and machine guns was always in favor of the former, the "Mauser" were used until the end of the war and they simply did not have time to replace them with anything else, although the "Sturmgever" and other variants of automatic rifles were created, they play any significant role in the war. did not make it.
  2. +4
    12 August 2014 10: 18
    Maybe even higher than AK, because the three-ruler only two world wars passed.
  3. +4
    12 August 2014 10: 20
    In the photo, a cartridge without welt with a groove does not at all look like our 7,62 mm rifle.
    1. +3
      12 August 2014 10: 39
      Quote: pin313
      In the photo, a cartridge without welt with a groove does not at all look like our 7,62 mm rifle.

      Can the bottom be cut off? Or za_ran is not visible, the photo is bad.
      1. +1
        12 August 2014 11: 28
        No, it’s definitely not our screwpatron.
        1. GHG
          GHG
          +2
          12 August 2014 11: 53
          Rant with a groove is closed by the sidewall of the holder itself. This is a Mauser K-98 holder.
  4. +3
    12 August 2014 10: 21
    the quality of weapons is checked by time, the second such brand of small arms by operating time is a Kalashnikov assault rifle
  5. padonok.71
    +2
    12 August 2014 10: 30
    An ingenious creation, a brilliant master. I know many shooters using this apparatus. With the replacement of the "tree", with the setting of the Schekotini strips, but none of them thought to change the mechanics / barrel.
    1. 0
      12 August 2014 14: 11
      The trigger mechanism is also changing: http://www.timneytriggers.com/shop/timney-mosin-nagant-replacement-trigger.aspx.



      If you have the means and the desire, you can replace almost everything: a box with a butt, there are capacious stores for a rifle, various DTKs, Picatinis, modern optics and other sights, the barrel for the match:



      Our hands are not for boredom winked :
    2. typhoon7
      +3
      12 August 2014 14: 16
      Gunsmiths still keep an eye on this rifle when creating sniper weapons. If you look at the program "Polygon", an issue dedicated to this rifle, you will notice that even an amateur, after two or three shots, begins to hit the bull's-eye, and with optics it is already a terminator. By the way, about modernization in the thirties. Few people know its real reason. When Mosin created this miracle, it turned out that there was a problem like with the shutter mirror, the sleeve was torn. The problem was solved, but no changes were made to the documentation, it was passed orally at the factory from teachers to students. But in the thirties the chain was interrupted and the problem surfaced again, and this was under Joseph Vissarionovich. A commotion began, everyone rushed to look for old workers, they found one, an old old one, he personally knew Mosin and was his student. He explained that (I am writing approximately) let’s say from the mirror it is necessary to shoot not eight but seven microns. So they got out and no one was hurt, but this was the only person who knew about this problem.
  6. +2
    12 August 2014 11: 00
    Very accurately noticed - this is a masterpiece of Russian weapons! And he will remain for a long time!
    Glory to Russian weapons !!!
  7. +4
    12 August 2014 11: 06
    Photo of cartridges in the text is erroneous. The picture shows a 7,92x57mm Mauser in a clip.
    The article is torn in the middle - the Mosin rifle as a sniper is still used in the Russian army. And still in warehouses ...
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. +2
    12 August 2014 11: 26
    Beautiful rifle (shot from it), and at that time in general a masterpiece. The complexity-result ratio is simply amazing.
  10. +1
    12 August 2014 11: 29
    Its fit in a row with AK to put.
    And do not belittle the value, otherwise there are unfortunate historians who shed tears over the poor soldiers who had to fight with the three-ruler against German assault rifles
    And how many Germans had those mp-38, mp-40, especially at the beginning of the war? So until forty-fifth with Mauser and ran.
  11. +2
    12 August 2014 11: 35
    Three-line, ours, dear, Russian ... I remember in my childhood I read one wonderful book "Sharpshooters" sorry I don't remember the author. It described in detail how S.I. Mosin created this miracle weapon.
  12. +11
    12 August 2014 11: 52
    ))) Comic, but still!
  13. +2
    12 August 2014 11: 55
    If the top photo is a female battalion, then
    their rifles must be "arisaki" - Japanese.
    They are lighter than trilinear, with less impact,
    therefore they were given to women.
    1. +1
      12 August 2014 20: 54
      - The "Arisaka" had a cleaver bayonet, but here - a needle ... rather a dragoon model!
  14. +1
    12 August 2014 11: 56
    Quote: padonok.71
    planks of Schekotini

    Actually, they are (planks) Picatinny rail. ;)
    1. padonok.71
      +3
      12 August 2014 12: 16
      This is for the Italians, English women and other Americans - Picatinny, and for the RUSSIAN man, all Schicatinis. soldier
  15. maratkamgu
    +1
    12 August 2014 12: 56
    Doxtop table killed class
  16. +3
    12 August 2014 13: 18
    "Modernization is not required" I wonder what happened then in 1910 and 1930?
    I'm wondering, but did the author of this compilation hold a mosinka in his hands? - "There were five cartridges in the Mosinka store" oh how! - this blooper travels from one patriotic article about a mosinka to another, Well, so, 4 cartridges enter the mosinka store, when loading from the clip, the fifth cartridge turns out to be on the ramming line and is driven into the barrel.
  17. +1
    12 August 2014 13: 19
    I would like a more detailed article. For example, twice in the text some details from Nagan are mentioned, but what kind of details are not specified.
    1. +3
      12 August 2014 14: 07
      The Armory Committee in its conclusions at the request of Nagan for the grant of privileges found only three of these borrowings -
      1 feeder attached to the store door folding down.
      2 Loading method from the clip
      3 clip design
      Sometimes, in our time, Nagan is also credited with a cutoff-reflector, although there the story is exactly the opposite - Nagan changed his cutoff, which was originally located on his right side. boxes and acted only on the upper cartridge, on the modified Mosin cut-off - on the left side of the work on two cartridges.
      But he still knocked out the grandmothers from the government in full - there are also a lot of insinuations on this subject, but everything is simple to the limit, they offered 3 instead of the promised 75000 for participation in the competition and for the 200000 points listed above - if it was adopted rifles, he agreed, but with one condition that in this case, the rights to the store, the method of loading from the clip and the clip itself, remain outside of the Republic of Ingushetia, since it was assumed that initially part of the orders for the rifles would be placed in Europe, it turned out that In this case, for every rifle released in Europe, they would have to unfasten the denyaguyu Nagan and after conferring with government officials decided to pay 200000 to Nagan and take all the rights for themselves, including the Nagan rifle itself.
  18. +4
    12 August 2014 13: 35
    The problem is that you can aim at the "sighting range" of 1900 meters only in a railway carriage, and then, probably, if it stands sideways to the shooter. The figure of a person in height is completely covered by the sight of a rifle when aiming already at 300 meters. At 600 meters, aiming at a person with an open sight is the same as aiming at him without a sight at all - at random, down the barrel.


    The problem is that today's realities project 100 years ago.
    If someone is not in the know, I can recall that no one had armored personnel carriers or trucks for transporting soldiers. The infantry made long marches in columns. And the marching battalion column is one gigantic group target that can be easily fired from with 1500 m volley fire units. Yes, there were practically no machine guns then. Do not forget about the cavalry, which at that time was massively used and also represented a group goal.
    1. -1
      12 August 2014 16: 02
      When were there no machine guns?
      Already in the 1st World easel machine guns were used massively. They turned a maneuverable war into a positional one. Until the tanks were invented, it became impossible to get to the machine gun firing from a fortified position without monstrous losses. And no one went on marching battalion columns 1.5 km from the front line: the guns fired perfectly at the shot squares. Rifles began to shoot from 250 meters ..., from 200 meters, good arrows started to hit. And the main losses - at 100-150 m
  19. +1
    12 August 2014 14: 00
    Quote: Droid
    And the marching battalion column is one gigantic group target that can be easily fired from with 1500 m volley fire units.

    True remark. I saw a mosquito with a royal stigma in which there was a sight like a machine gun Maxim: folding bar up. On the English Lee-enfields of the early releases, there were sights adjusted for long-range salvo firing.
    1. Victor-cort
      0
      12 August 2014 17: 18
      long-range salvo firing, this is the same for the military as the ram on warships, in reality, even the disturbing effect was minimal (that is, it didn’t even scare).
      1. 0
        12 August 2014 17: 23
        In reality, when is this? In the midst of World War I? When did the infantry dig into the ground and use the loose order?
        1. Victor-cort
          0
          12 August 2014 17: 43
          Quote: Droid
          In reality, when is this? In the midst of World War I? When did the infantry dig into the ground and use the loose order?

          In reality, this is the entire life of this rifle.
  20. +2
    12 August 2014 14: 37
    And the scariest bar is the Chicotili bar.
    Interestingly, in the west it is called the Mossin-Nagan system. Why, then, is the Galil-Kalashnikov system not named accordingly? You can find a full weapon systems in which the use of double names is quite reasonable. But in the West they traditionally do this only with respect to Russians.
    They do not like us. Perhaps they would have liked more under Napoleon, Hitler or the Tatars, Mongols?
  21. +2
    12 August 2014 14: 41
    The three-ruler is a legend with a capital letter.
    Thanks to the author for the material, I learned even more about this rifle.

    The article is specifically about the CREATION of this weapon, and not its history and use.
  22. +1
    12 August 2014 15: 10
    That's just even more sense, and, accordingly, there would be less problems when taking a bezrantny cartridge !!!

    It was such a cartridge that was proposed by Yakov Ustinovich Roschey on August 24, 1928 (!) Of the year, along with his self-loading rifle ...
    Proposed by Ya.U. With a groove, the cartridge did not differ from the standard 7,62x54R (R - welt), except for the absence of the welt (protruding edge), i.e. the cartridge had a groove.

    But, as always, the inertia of the gentlemen / comrades who made the decision back then (!) Prevented us from adopting a normal and modern cartridge!
    Due to which Russia still has a cartridge with an obsolete type of cartridge case!
    And all the problems of sending (in particular when creating a single machine gun) were solved by circumventing the availability of welt, i.e. like students who create problems for themselves and then bravely overcome them!

    This is what the cartridge of Y. U. would have looked like Groove
    1. 0
      12 August 2014 15: 14
      What does the bone have to do with it? There were enough reasons for the industrial, technical and economic nature, before it’s better to water with mud it’s better to just read more about it.
      1. Victor-cort
        0
        12 August 2014 17: 20
        Quote: gross kaput
        What does the bone have to do with it? There were enough reasons for the industrial, technical and economic nature, before it’s better to water with mud it’s better to just read more about it.

        Nothing of the kind, just inertness and nothing more. Moreover, even at the time of adoption, the cartridge was already outdated.
        1. 0
          12 August 2014 17: 51
          Well, if you are so good at understanding, can you tell me that this was changed in a sleeve in 1930, that in 1891 it was specially introduced into the design?
          1. Victor-cort
            +1
            13 August 2014 01: 32
            Quote: gross kaput
            Well, if you are so good at understanding, can you tell me that this was changed in a sleeve in 1930, that in 1891 it was specially introduced into the design?

            You do not understand, the cartridge was obsolete back in 1891, just because it had a welt. 7,92 × 57 Mauser adopted by Germany in 1888
            They took the Mosinsky cartridge only because of some cheapness in the production of trunks (as it turned out later - cheap) for that they had serious problems with stores and power systems for automatic and self-loading weapons, the main problems of the SVT (more than 20% of delays) were the store.
            1. +1
              13 August 2014 13: 38
              No, I understood everything - it was looking outdated through the prism of our time, and then it was far from that, firstly, the advantages of the grooves at that time were absolutely not obvious - there were no machine guns yet, the cartridge itself appeared in 1889, and was created based on Lebel’s cartridge - several Lebel’s rifles and cartridges for them were purchased for review in the same year 1889, in addition, at the time of the cartridge’s creation there was a heated debate about which rifle is needed - single-shot or magazine-mounted - and here all the positive properties of cartridges with grooves do not play a role at all play, but on the contrary turn into flaws for mass production of weapons, since a cartridge with a groove is fixed in a ramp chamber, the chamber of such a rifle requires much higher manufacturing accuracy, which, due to the need to produce a huge number of rifles and our weapons factories, turned into a serious problem , the second nuance that is forgotten or not known is the production of the cartridges themselves, not only that such cartridges are much more critical to the accuracy of the geometry of the sleeve, there was another problem - the low quality of the brass sleeve and the imperfection of the cartridge production equipment, as a result of which the bottle had to be made spherical to avoid lateral breaks. They were able to get rid of the spherical stingray only in 1930.
              The reasons for the refusal to replace the old cartridge in the late twenties are also quite logical and there is no bone thinking - just paint laziness already, who are interested in finding and honoring it.
              Yes, by the way, the last attempt to replace the old man was in the late 50s and early 60s, then a single 7,62 rifle-machine gun cartridge was created, similar in concept to the 7,62X51, only it turned out to be "superfluous".
  23. 0
    12 August 2014 15: 15
    Quote: voyaka uh
    The main weapon of the German infantry from the beginning to
    the end of the war was the Mauser rifle.
    But the Red Army quickly rearmament on PPSh.

    and the armament of the German infantry squad was: РМ40-1 (commander of the squad), MG34 MG42-1 the rest of the Mauser of the 89. The Mosin rifle was released until the end of the war, only with 44. carbine. Not all PPSh and Sudaev machine guns were armed.
    1. padonok.71
      +1
      12 August 2014 19: 04
      And all of them should not have been armed with PPSh (S), they would simply be "clicked" from 350-400 meters. Even with the adoption of StG, Nemchura was in no hurry to withdraw the Mauserists from the jutskommando. That would just cover the range from 400 meters.
  24. 0
    12 August 2014 15: 51
    punched 16-35 one-inch boards

    Most likely here the dependence is on the species of the tree (oak, pine ...) and on its condition (dry or moist, healthy or fauna ...)

    the leader in arms sales in the United States in 2012, according to the largest chain of weapons online stores in the world, Bud's Gun Shop, steel rifle Mosin 1891/30 caliber 7,62 mm... These rifles have a range of two kilometers and were used by Soviet snipers during the Second World War. In the online store "Mosinki" were sold for $ 129, while in the USSR they were no longer produced in 1965.
    1. Victor-cort
      0
      12 August 2014 17: 22
      Quote: Balalaikin
      These rifles have a range of two kilometers

      Journalists are such journalists ... :)
      1. 0
        12 August 2014 17: 29
        Then the journalists wrote the truth. The aiming range of the rifle is 2000 meters.
        1. Victor-cort
          0
          12 August 2014 17: 47
          Quote: Droid
          Then the journalists wrote the truth. The aiming range of the rifle is 2000 meters.

          Shooting and shooting - these are two big differences :) On the AK over 1000 m affixed - but this is only from great optimism.
          Even the best modern sniper rifles (in caliber 7.62) barely barely shoot per kilometer.
          1. +1
            12 August 2014 17: 57
            In the determination of the aiming range, nothing is said about the hit.
            And why on AK 1000 m it is written in NSD.
          2. +2
            12 August 2014 18: 33
            On AK over 1000 m affixed - but this is only from great optimism.


            Not from optimism. The manual for AKM says in black and white: shooting at individual targets - up to 450 meters, and even tables are given for the number of rounds spent by the best gunners to hit the target at such distances. At longer distances, only group firing by platoon / squad is conducted by order of the commander. In this case, several machine guns are used as an analogue of a machine gun, and create a large accuracy of fire in the target zone. which, according to statistics, increases the likelihood of its defeat.
            For a three-line in the same way.
            1. Victor-cort
              +1
              13 August 2014 01: 37
              Quote: Assistant
              At longer distances, only group firing by platoon / squad is conducted by order of the commander.

              Have you ever witnessed this type of shooting? Personally, I didn’t even hear, because it’s just a waste of ammunition. And no adequate commander will spend ammunition on firing anywhere.
              The same with volley fire at 2000m - a waste of ammunition. That is what the practice of using the same Mosin rifle showed.
  25. 0
    12 August 2014 16: 15
    1) Mosin Rifle
    2) Kalashnikov assault rifle
    3)?
    Who deserves to be the next among the gunsmiths? ..
    1. Victor-cort
      0
      12 August 2014 17: 24
      Quote: Dragon-y
      1) Mosin Rifle
      2) Kalashnikov assault rifle
      3)?
      Who deserves to be the next among the gunsmiths? ..

      1) Mauser rifle
      2) AK
      3) FN FAL
      You can continue further, but the mosquito is not a fact that it will enter the top ten ...
    2. 0
      12 August 2014 20: 15
      maybe RPG-7? )
    3. 0
      12 August 2014 21: 35
      1) Mosin Rifle
      2) Kalashnikov assault rifle
      3) SVD.

      The best three of all time. This is like Mikhailov-Petrov-Kharlamov. :)
      1. Victor-cort
        0
        13 August 2014 01: 38
        Quote: bunta
        1) Mosin Rifle
        2) Kalashnikov assault rifle
        3) SVD.

        The best three of all time. This is like Mikhailov-Petrov-Kharlamov. :)

        You forgot to add - in Russia, the world is somewhat larger ....
        1. 0
          13 August 2014 08: 30
          Quote: Victor-Cort
          You forgot to add - in Russia, the world is somewhat larger ....

          This would contradict:
          Quote: bunta
          The best three of all time.


          This is the truth, but they do not argue with the truth. They live with her as with a beloved woman. Or hemorrhoids. :)
          1. Victor-cort
            0
            14 August 2014 18: 33
            Quote: bunta
            It is truth,

            The truth is that Mosinki, made in the USA by order of tsarist Russia, were simply thrown out after 17, because they were useless to anyone. I doubt very much that the Mausers would have done so. Outside of Tsarist Russia and the USSR, Mosinki were almost never used. So putting her ahead of Mauser (which was used by the armies of all continents) is simply stupid.
            1. 0
              16 August 2014 08: 29
              Quote: Victor-Cort
              threw out

              fact, by the way, without confirmation.
              The matter is in the cartridge.
              In our country, as usual, we first create problems for ourselves, then we solve them and are proud of it. First, a wound cartridge, then an ingenious engineering solution to the problem - a cutoff-reflector.
              For an account outside the USSR, check out the Wiki.
              About the stupidity of the arrangement. The first and main criterion is circulation. Only the consumer and the market can determine which product is better from his point of view. Let the sofa experts say what they want. History is not interested in their opinion. The circulation of Mosinka is more than two times higher than that of Mauser.
              Purely from the point of view of the design, Mauser is also not all so openwork. The same three-position fuse is not the pinnacle of an engineering solution.
              Forgive my stupidity, but I have my own criteria for compiling a "rating". The first criterion is circulation. The second is the presence of innovative and beautiful design solutions that significantly improve the performance of the product. Mauser does not have such solutions. The AK is also in the SVD. And in the PCA.
  26. +2
    12 August 2014 20: 36
    In the late 80s of the nineteenth century, smokeless gunpowder was already produced in Russia in industrial volumes.

    These "industrial volumes" were catastrophically lacking:

    Foreign orders of cartridges of the “Russian standard” were issued in the USA and Canada. Significant orders in the United States were received by Remington and United States Cartridge Company. As in a number of other cases, it was necessary to send experienced engineers as receivers in order to arrange the execution of Russian orders at the proper level. Cartridges were also purchased from Maxim Ammunitions. By June 1917, Russia received 573.539.000 US three-line cartridges.

    Bought abroad and rifle powder. Already on August 6, 1914, powder engineers were sent to Japan and the United States to place large orders and to install gunpowder production for three-line cartridges. A cash purchase was made in the United States of a finished batch of this explosive suitable for Russian ammunition. The bulk of approximately 793.000 pounds of gunpowder for rifle cartridges manufactured during the war was purchased abroad - mainly from the Americans.

    From the beginning of the war until January 1, 1917, the Russian army received 2.850.000.000 cartridges from domestic factories and 1.078.000.000 from foreign ones. If the “rifle hunger” was noticeably weakened at the beginning of 1916, then on the whole the question of the lack of rifles and ammunition was removed - only by 1917. But for the "military successes" it was already late, but for the revolution just right.

    Original article http://army-news.ru/2013/03/patronnyj-golod-rossii-v-pervoj-mirovoj-vojne/
  27. 0
    12 August 2014 21: 59
    The story of a betrayal. This building is no longer there.
  28. fagimich
    0
    12 August 2014 22: 33
    everything is exactly the Germans had submachine guns only at the gendarmerie and security battalions
  29. konstantin77
    +2
    12 August 2014 23: 45
    If someone is interested, I can express my opinion about SVT rifles. Moreover, an opinion based not on reading popular literature or impressions "I fired several times from SVT", but on the systematic handling of these rifles (among other weapons) and the restoration of their technical readiness, by the nature of their service. I can confirm that this is not a flood with a series of any photos with different rifles of this type.
    Personally, I believe that this rifle was adopted raw and unfinished and has three congenital defects:

    1) incorrect calculation (or even its absence in the course of design, which will not be a reproach to say, not surprising for designers "from the plow", sample 20-30, who do not have a higher technical education) of the kinetics of interaction of the details of the bolt group, during the execution cycles "cartridge case extraction-cartridge delivery". In practice, this is expressed in the fact that the shutter during the execution of these cycles with each shot moves with a different energy (speed), even when firing precision ammunition (this moment was specially filmed on a slow motion video camera). When firing, periodically, this leads either to under-extraction of the cartridge case, or to the sticking of the next cartridge (if the shutter speed is insufficient during the release). After 60-70 shots, the delays usually become systematic, which forces either to clean out the gas recovery unit, or to move the gas regulator to a larger opening. By the way, about the initial and permanent setting of the gas regulator to the maximum opening is also not so simple - in this case, the rejection energy of the shutter is excessive, which often leads to the breakdown of the return spring from the rear guide rod;
    2) the extremely imperfect design of the gas regulator itself, which, for the reasons described above, must be rearranged quite often. Unlike the SVD rifle and the PC machine gun (in which the gas regulator is switched easily and simply by turning it with the rifle sleeve), the translation of the SVT gas regulator requires incomplete disassembly of the rifle, which in complete combat (especially fleeting) is complete insanity. In addition, switching the regulator requires the exact combination of the patterns (very thin and poorly visible) on it and on the tide of the gas vent mechanism. In general, it is incomprehensible to the mind how it is supposed to perform this manipulation at night, in fog, or in case of severe dustiness?!;
    3) unsuccessful design of the rifle chamber (in terms of the presence of "Revelli grooves" and insufficient rigidity of the chamber), which leads to the bulging of the cartridge case and its getting stuck in the chamber at the slightest flaw in the cartridge (rust, micro-dent).
    Perhaps there would have been no war and if this rifle had been awakened in the armed forces for several years, it would have been improved, and the indicated design flaws would have been eliminated (which, if desired, is quite possible). For example, some time ago we were in the conditions of a weapons workshop, with the equipment and, most importantly, a turner with golden hands, sharpened the spare barrel from the PKT machine gun and put it on the SVT. Result - the defect indicated by me in Section 3 was almost completely eliminated, and the trunk survivability also increased (on the SVT the standard trunk is not chrome plated). I think that special problems, in an industrial environment, would not have arisen in altering the design of the gas regulator, and most importantly in recalculating the kinetics of the bolt group. In short, to summarize the above, we can conclude that this rifle was not very lucky, appeared at the wrong time and in the wrong place. And so, a rather ergonomic, applied weapon, with very, very good ballistics.
    1. Victor-cort
      +1
      13 August 2014 01: 44
      Everything would be so ... but only when they tested the SVT for a permanent store - the reliability increased sharply (it was even recommended for use). So most of the problems (though not all) are an unreliable store, but the main reason for the store’s insecurity is the wound cartridge.
      No wonder the store for SVD is considered almost a brilliant creation.
    2. +1
      13 August 2014 08: 57
      Quote: konstantin77
      incorrect calculation (or in general its absence in the course of design, which is not a reproach to say, no wonder for designers "from the plow", model 20-30, who do not have a higher technical education)


      When will you get rid of these stamps? Browning, Kalashnikov, Dragunov, Stange, Shpagin, Tokarev, brothers Mauser and Walter, Degtyarev, Simonov - no one had a higher technical.
      But a powerful theoretical base in the form of military academies was (and is) one of the most powerful in the world - Fedorov, Blagonravov.
    3. 0
      13 August 2014 12: 53
      Quote: konstantin77
      3) unsuccessful design of the rifle chamber (in terms of the presence of "Revelli grooves" and insufficient rigidity of the chamber), which leads to the bulging of the cartridge case and its getting stuck in the chamber at the slightest flaw in the cartridge (rust, micro-dent).


      Revelli grooves equalize the pressure between the chamber and the sleeve. How can they "lead" to inflation of the liner, if they are specifically designed for the opposite? It's very simple. If the grooves were not cleaned and they are clogged with carbon deposits, then they further worsen the situation by creating additional friction when removing the liner. Which leads, at best, to bloating, at worst to rupture of the liner.
  30. 0
    13 August 2014 12: 23
    in "mosinka" there is simply nothing to upgrade

    What she definitely lacks is a convenient fuse. You need to pick up and pull off some kind of fucking with your fingertips. In the cold, gloved hands are very uncomfortable, if at all real. The Mauser rifle has a much better fuse.
  31. konstantin77
    0
    13 August 2014 16: 26
    Quite rightly, you said about the Revelli grooves, and quite rightly pointed out that if the chamber is dirty, they only interfere with the normal extraction of the case. Moreover, during corrosion of the cartridge in the area of ​​these grooves (and it is inevitable, since the barrel of the SVT is not chrome-plated), their surface gradually crumbles, as a result of which micro-caverns are formed, into which the sleeve inflates when fired. Of course, you can say "they say the chamber must be cleaned in a timely manner," however, it must be cleaned very, very carefully after several dozen shots (usually after 30-40, the SVT chamber is completely soot, again due to gases that enter it from behind the grooves), which in combat conditions is far from always possible to do. And in general, what is this whole vegetable garden for? there are no grooves on dozens of small arms samples, and the extraction is just fine, for example: AK / AKM / AK-74, SVD, PK, etc. etc. And on the SVT itself, when replacing the barrel with a barrel from a PC (without grooves), extraction improves significantly
    1. 0
      13 August 2014 17: 09
      Quote: konstantin77
      Yes, and on the CBT itself, when replacing the barrel with the barrel from the PC (without grooves), extraction improves significantly

      You concluded that replacing the old non-chrome barrel with a new one, not only chrome-plated but also alloyed (a different composition of steel). With a different coefficient of friction. And the coefficient of friction is a bad joke - a change of even a few% can have serious consequences. The chamber, of course, you also polished eggs like a cat. So no wonder.

      Revelli's grooves are cut mainly on weapons, where the unlocking of the barrel can occur before the pressure in the sleeve is released. This is mainly on weapons with a locking shutter skew or wedge. At the same stormtrooper, on tests, the liner vomited like Stirlitz to his homeland. That is, repeatedly. In systems with locking by turning the shutter, the time for opening the shutter is longer, the pressure manages to decrease to normal and the sleeve does not hold anything.

      In addition, steel sleeves. Did you shoot with a steel or brass barrel? I don’t remember now, during the war, which sleeve was used during the war? If brass, then such a mechanism with a steel sleeve is generally forbidden to use (!). Steel is less ductile.

      The locking system with a skewed shutter has the most unstable dynamics, depending both on temperature, and on pollution, and especially on the wear of combat surfaces.
      In addition, I don’t know, I don’t have the opportunity to check, but purely theoretically I can assume that the bolt frame can begin to move not under the influence of gas pressure on the piston, but from recoil. In any case, the recoil impulse will take part in the unlocking. And this is a very interesting point, depending on the force of pressing the weapon to the shoulder. In the hands of the girl it will be more reliable for automatic operation, in the hands of an experienced shooter the reliability will be reduced.

      In AK, SVD, PC, the opening time of the shutter is longer by the time the shutter is rotated and the sleeve is removed. In systems with a skew or wedge, there is no stragging. Therefore, there the requirements for chamber cleanliness are incommensurably higher.
  32. 0
    April 27 2020 14: 54
    Guys, it turns out they took a cartridge for Mosinka with a rim because of the low culture of production, in order to do without a rim like a Mauser, with a cartridge case in the chamber on a ramp, precision accuracy was needed. But there was an ingenious way out - cartridges with a tapered "bottle-shaped" sleeve - like Kalashnikov in '47 !, which by themselves rested in the chamber at a small angle without the precision accuracy of Mauser cartridges. Or perhaps, by the end of the XNUMXth century, this is a strong "hit-and-miss" anachronism from the future?

    And the second point, why do we, Austrians and Germans have such small shops - only 5 rounds? The British at Lee Anfield set up a store for 10 rounds. With such a reserve you can fight! Stock as in subsequent self-exercises of the 30s.
  33. 0
    8 August 2021 17: 52
    If anyone is interested, here is a link to the high-speed shooting technique from the Mosin rifle, developed in 1946 by senior sergeant Nemtsev (in pdf format): https://disk.yandex.ru/i/Df1ocpmV_VPnEg

    The text is reprinted from scans of paper, so it is readable without additional eye strain, the illustrations have been transferred without changes and their quality leaves much to be desired.
  34. 0
    25 January 2022 09: 05
    Quote: voyaka uh
    The main weapon of the German infantry from the beginning to
    the end of the war was the Mauser rifle.


    Not a rifle, but a carbine, a shortened version. "Kurtz" - i.e. short. The German carbine was more convenient than the three-ruler.
    1. 0
      12 February 2022 16: 54
      Wikipedia writes that the terms carbine / rifle in German are not so simple:

      The original designation “carbine” for this sample is not correct from the point of view of Russian terminology: Mauser 98k is more correctly called a “shortened” or “lightweight” rifle, since the German term “carbine” (Karabiner) in its meaning used in those years does not correspond understanding of this word, accepted in Russian. In terms of its dimensions, this “carbine” was only very slightly inferior, for example, to the Soviet “three-ruler”. The fact is that this word in German at that time meant only the presence of more convenient side, “cavalry” mounts for a belt - instead of “infantry” sling swivels located below on the bed. For example, some German "carbines" were significantly longer than rifles of the same model. Such a terminological difference gives rise to a certain confusion, aggravated by the fact that later in the German language the term "carbine" acquired its "usual" meaning and also began to denote a greatly shortened rifle.

      Source: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_98k

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