Military Review

Our first serial submachine gun

29
Our first serial submachine gun
PPD contrary to the legend is not copied from the Finnish “Suomi”


Two significant anniversaries fall at once on 2010: 75 years ago, the V. A. Degtyarev system-gun was adopted and 70-years ago — G. Shpagin's machine-gun. In the fate of the PPD and PPSh reflected dramatic история this type of domestic weapons on the eve of World War II and its exclusive role in the course of the confrontation on the Soviet-German front.

Submachine guns began to enter the infantry units during the First World War. The use of a pistol cartridge made it possible to create a new type of automatic small arms, rather compact in size and of relatively small mass, from which it was possible to conduct dense fire in melee combat. True, outside the "near" range, the effectiveness indicators of submachine guns turned out to be quite modest. This largely determined the attitude to the new weapons in a number of armies, including the Red Army, as a kind of auxiliary means.

NOT ONLY FOR DANGERS AND POLICEMEN

However, the widespread view of the “neglect” of the Soviet military leadership to machine pistols, to put it mildly, is greatly exaggerated. On October 27 1925 of the Red Army Commission noted: "... it is necessary to re-equip the junior and middle command personnel with an automatic submachine gun, leaving Nagan in service with the senior and top commanders." 28 December 1926 of the Year The Artillery Committee of the Red Army Artillery Directorate approved technical specifications for the manufacture of submachine guns.

Very little time passed, and already in 1927, FV Tokarev, who was working at that time in the design bureau of the First Tula arms factories, presented his sample of a submachine gun - the so-called lightweight carbine. However, it was made under the most affordable then 7,62-mm revolver cartridge "revolver", poorly suited for automatic weapons. Meanwhile, in the Soviet Union, work on a self-loading pistol and 7 on July 1928 of the year was under way. The artillery committee suggested using a Mauser cartridge for pistols and submachine guns.

The Report of the Revolutionary Military Council of the USSR of December 1929 stated: “The adopted infantry system of the Red Army envisages the introduction in the near future of a semi-automatic self-loading rifle ... self-loading pistol ... submachine gun as a powerful automatic melee weapon (there are samples, 20-25 cartridges, range - 400-500 meters) ". The main weapon was to be a rifle for a powerful rifle cartridge, auxiliary - a submachine gun for a pistol cartridge. In 1930, the 7,62-mm pistol cartridge (7,62x25) was adopted - the domestic version of the 7,63-mm Mauser cartridge. The development of submachine guns began under him.



Already in June-July 1930, by order of the Deputy People's Commissar for Military and Naval Affairs I. P. Uborevich, the commission headed by the commander V.F. Grushetskiy conducts tests of self-loading pistols and experienced submachine guns at the Scientific Testing Weapon Range. These were samples of the development of F. V. Tokarev under the revolver cartridge “Nagan”, V. A. Degtyarev (he then headed the design bureau of the Kovrov plant No. 2, subsequently the State Union Plant No. 2 named after KO Kirkizha) and C A. Korovin - under the pistol cartridge. At the same time, foreign pistols and submachine guns undergo a similar practical test.

In general, the test results of the first domestic submachine guns turned out to be unsatisfactory. Among the reasons for the failures, there was a discrepancy between the power of the pistol cartridge, the high rate of fire and the too limited weight of the samples, which did not allow for acceptable accuracy of fire.

In this case, the pistols, machine guns were still treated ambiguously. For example, at the plenary session of the Scientific and Technical Committee of the 14 Artillery Directorate of December 1930, it was emphasized: “Submachine guns are currently used mainly in the police and internal security forces. For combat purposes by the Germans and Americans, they are not considered to be sufficiently perfect. ” This opinion was confirmed due to the fact that in Weimar Germany machine guns MP.18 and MP.28 were supplied with police units. And the American submachine gun Thompson, which, although it was created as an army weapon, “became famous” mainly during gangster raids and showdowns, as well as operations of the guardians of law and order. Even the following point of view was expressed: that, in the Red Army’s weapons system, “a submachine gun did not appear because of the requirements, but because such a sample was made and tried to be applied to this system”. But these conclusions did not interrupt the work of Soviet designers.

In the 1932-1933, ground tests passed 14 samples of 7,62-mm submachine guns, including F. V. Tokarev, V. A. Degtyarev, S. A. Korovin, S. A. Prilutsky, and I. N. Kolesnikov . The most successful were the "offspring" of Degtyarev and Tokarev. The Artillery Directorate in January 1934 of the year marked the Degtyaryov submachine gun as the best in combat and operational qualities. He did not have a high rate of fire, but stood out more accuracy and adaptability. Characteristic is the use of a significant number of cylindrical parts (barrel, receiver, barrel casing, bolt, butt plate) manufactured on universal lathes.

9 June 1935, by order of the USSR Commissar of Defense, the Red Army adopts the “7,62-mm submachine gun Degtyarev arr. 1934 (PPD-34) ". First of all, they intended to provide the commanders of the Red Army.



REQUIREMENTS MODERNIZATION

PPD-34 belonged to the samples of the classic "karabinerny" layout, given by the German MP.18 / I, with a wooden box and a cylindrical perforated barrel casing. Automatic submachine gun operated at the expense of the recoil energy of the free shutter. The trigger PPD, made a separate assembly, allowed the maintenance of automatic and single fire, the flag translator was located in front of the trigger guard. The shot was made from the rear whisper, that is, with the shutter open. A non-automatic safety catch in the form of a latch was placed on the bolt handle and locked it in the front or rear position. Detachable box-shaped store sector form was attached below. The sectoral sight was notched at a distance from 50 to 500. The aim fire would be so excessive for submachine guns only during World War II.

In 1934, Kovrov Plant No. 2 manufactured 44 PPD, in 1935-m - just 23, in 1936-m - 911, in 1937-m - 1291, in 1938-m - 1115, in 1939-m - 1700. If 1937 and 1938 3 085 magazine rifles were released for 000 and 4106 (excluding sniper rifles), then PPD is XNUMX. This makes it possible to judge the place that was given to the submachine gun in the weapons system of the Red Army.

Along the way, the revision of the RPD continued, and already in 1939, the Artillery Committee of the Artillery Directorate approved the changes in the design of the submachine gun prepared by plant No. 2. The weapon received the designation "submachine gun rev.1934 / 38 g.". In the PPD of this sample, the store was strengthened by installing an additional neck for its fastening, worked out the interchangeability of the stores, and strengthened the landing of the sight. At the same time, the Artillery Committee pointed out that "it is necessary to introduce it into the armament of certain categories of soldiers of the Red Army, the border guards of the NKVD, machine-gun and gun crews, some specialists, airborne troops, drivers of cars, etc.".

That was the basis. In the course of the 1932-1935 war between Bolivia and Paraguay, for the first time, pistol-guns of various systems were widely used, and not without success. They were also used in the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939). Soon the unpleasant acquaintance with the Finnish Suomi m / 1931 had a chance to survive the fighters of the Red Army. This happened during the three-month “unknown” campaign of 1939-1940.

However, it was in 1939 that the fate of the PPD was in question. At the initiative of the People's Commissariat of Defense, the issue of stopping the release of submachine guns was discussed. And nine months before the start of the Soviet-Finnish war, they were removed from parts of the Red Army and transferred to storage and to the border troops of the NKVD. Often, this is attempted to be explained by the “tyranny” of the head of the Artillery Directorate, First Deputy Defense Commissar G. I. Kulik. But at the same time it is impossible not to pay attention to the report on the production of automatic small arms at the enterprises of the People's Commissariat of Weapons for 1939 a year. This document stated that the manufacture of FPDs should be “stopped, up to the elimination of the noted deficiencies and the simplification of the design”. And it was proposed: "... the development of a new type of automatic weapons for a pistol cartridge to continue for the possible replacement of the outdated design of PPD."

In the same year, 1939, the most authoritative expert V. G. Fedorov (monograph “The Evolution of Small Arms”) pointed to the “immense future” of the submachine gun as “powerful, relatively light and at the same time simple in design weapons”, however, “ subject to some of its improvements. " Fedorov also wrote about the "approaching of two types, namely, an automaton and a submachine gun," based on the creation of a cartridge "with a reduced targeting range for rifles and an increased range for submachine guns." However, by the beginning of World War II, such a cartridge had not yet appeared. Not surprisingly, submachine guns were called machine guns during the Finnish campaign in the Red Army - this name will last for them until the end of the 40s.

Successful use of the enemy in the battles "Suomi" forced to urgently return to the Red Army units PPD. From the front came the demands to equip machine pistols modeled on the Finns "at least one branch per company." The existing PPDs were immediately transferred to units in Karelia, and at the end of December 1939, one month after the start of the war, at the direction of the Main Military Council, mass production of Degtyarev submachine guns began.

January 6 1940, by an order of the Defense Committee, the improved RPD was adopted by the Red Army.

THIRD MODIFICATION

Kovrov Plant number 2 received a special government task - to set up production of PPD. A brigade of specialists led by Deputy People's Commissar of Arms I. Barsukov was sent there to assist in its implementation. The manufacture of machine-gun parts was distributed in almost all workshops, but as early as January, the 1940-i began working at the factory for the production of submachine guns. The workshops of the instrumental department were engaged only in the production of technological equipment and tools necessary for the production of PPD.

To reduce the time for the production of a single submachine gun in its design made a number of changes:

- the number of windows in the casing decreased from 55 to 15, the bottom of the casing was carried out separately and pressed into the pipe;

- the bolt box was made of a pipe, the sight block was made separately;

- a separate drummer with an axis was eliminated in the gate, the striker was motionlessly fixed in the gate with the help of a stud;

- set simplified lamellar spring ejector.

Not only that - PPD, like Suomi, was supplied with a drum shop. However, Degtyarev offered a simpler solution - increasing the capacity of the box magazine to 30 cartridges and simplifying its change. Although this option, which required significantly lower costs, was supported by the leadership of the People's Commissariat of Armaments, it was decided to equip the RPM with drum shops (“discs”).

I.A. Komaritsky, E.V. Chernko, V.I. Shelkov and V.A. Degtyarev designed the drum shop practically in a week. It was supplemented with a neck that was inserted into the guide sleeve PPD. As a result, managed to do without alterations submachine gun. In addition, thanks to this, the capacity of the store was 73 cartridge - two more than the Finnish prototype. Thus, a third modification of the RPM appeared, retaining the designation “submachine gun arr. 1934 / 38. The submachine gun also received the fly's fuse.

From 22 January 1940, all the workshops and departments involved in the production of FPD were transferred to a three-shift operation. The sharp increase in the release of the submachine gun could not pass without problems. According to the testimony of B. L. Vannikov, “ready-made automata repeatedly returned from shooting to correction. There were days when more people worked on the fix than on the assembly. ” But production gradually entered into a normal rhythm, and the troops began to receive more CPDs. True, the submachine gun, designed for the technological equipment of the factories of the early 30-s, was expensive. Its cost can be judged by such figures - one PPD with a set of spare parts, like Simonov’s automatic rifle, cost the state budget 900 rubles (in 1939 prices of the year), and a DP submachine gun with spare parts - 1150 rubles (although it’s necessary to take into account already established production rifles and machine guns).

At this time, the first subdivisions of machine gunners were formed, including skiing, an experience that was very useful during the years of the Great Patriotic War. Intelligence and assault groups, teams of skiers tried to provide more abundant automatic weapons, among which the submachine gun showed great reliability. P. Shilov, who was a scout of the 17-th separate ski battalion during the Soviet-Finnish war, recalled one battle: “Our SVT did not shoot ... After the first shots, the scouts did not shoot anymore, but the rifle platoon commander and automatic commander were fine, and they shot at the Finns to the last bullet. "

15 February 1940 of the year V.A. Degtyarev presented a modernized model of PPD developed with the participation of designers S.N. Kalygin, P.Ye. Ivanov, N.N. Lopukhovsky, E.K. Aleksandrovich, V.A. Vvedensky (later names these people will meet more than once in a number of Kovrov systems), distinguished by the following changes:

- up to 71 of the cartridge, the capacity of the magazine decreased due to the replacement of its neck with the receiver, the work of the feeder became more reliable;

- the front and back supports of the store are placed on the bolt box, the bed is made split, with a separate forearm - an extension in front of the store;

- the shutter is provided with a fixed brisk.

On February 21, the Defense Committee of the USSR SNK approved these changes, and they were put into production in early March. This is how the “7,62-mm submachine gun of the Degtyarev system arr. 1940 (PPD-40) ". He could have either an open fly or a fly with a fuse.

However, the tests of the submachine gun with a fixed brisk shutter showed a large percentage of delays, and therefore the Office of Small Arms of the Directorate insisted on returning to the previous scheme of the drummer. That is why with 1 April 1940, the variant with the former individual drummer went into production. A total of 1940 81 PPDs were released in 118 year, so the fourth serial modification of the Degtyarev submachine gun - PPD-40 was the most massive.



The massive appearance of submachine guns in the troops at the end of the Soviet-Finnish war and the adoption of the PPD-1940 with the 40 magazine on 71 in the year contributed to the birth of the legend that Degtyarev copied A. Lahti’s Suomi system. Meanwhile, it is enough just to incompletely disassemble these two samples, which belonged to the same generation of submachine guns, to see that the relationship between the RPM and Suomi is very distant. But the first drum store really got from the second, albeit with alterations.

Trophy "Suomi" and later used by the Red Army, and sometimes even played a role ... PPD in Soviet films of the war - for example in the films "Actress" 1943 of the year or "Invasion" 1945.

TACTICAL AND TECHNICAL CHARACTERISTICS OF PPD OBR. 1934

Cartridge 7,62x25 TT
Mass weapons with cartridges 3,66 kg
Weapon length 778 mm
Barrel length 278 mm
Initial bullet speed 500 m / s
Firing rate 750-900 rds / min
Combat rate of fire, od. / Auth. 30 / 100 rds / min
Sighting range 500 m
25 Magazine Capacity

"MADE IN LENINGRAD"

In 1940, the attitude towards the submachine gun changed. He was still considered an auxiliary weapon, but the degree of saturation of his troops increased. It is characteristic, for example, that the statement by the general-inspector of infantry, Lieutenant-General A. K. Smirnov, at the meeting of the senior management of the Red Army in December 1940, that "if our (rifle) department was divided into two units," they would be " and automatic guns, and submachine guns ". At the same meeting, Lieutenant-General V.N. Kurdyumov, head of the Red Army Combat Training Directorate, calculated for an offensive battle (assuming that the Soviet rifle corps attacked the German infantry division): “Our attacking corps will have a platoon in the first attacking echelon of the 72, 2880 bayonets, 288 light machine guns, 576 PPD ... On average 1 km front will be attacking 2888 man against 78 defense man, machine guns and submachine guns - 100 against 26 ... "

At the last pre-war May Day parade of 1941 of the year, a unit of soldiers armed with RPM-40 marched on Red Square. However, the submachine gun of G.S. Shpagin has already replaced the RPM ...



In the initial period of the Great Patriotic War, PPD production was restored in Leningrad. In Kovrov, in the experimental workshop of the department of the chief designer, about the 5000 PPD were collected from the remaining reserve of parts. And in the city on the Neva, on the basis of the equipment of Sestroretsk Instrumental Plant named after S. P. Voskov, the production of PPD-40 was re-launched, leading it almost by hand. In December, 1941, when Leningrad was already surrounded, the A. Kulakov plant joined in this work. In total, 1941-1942 in the northern capital produced 42 870 PPD-40, which were used in the troops of the Leningrad and Karelian fronts. One of these PPD-40 is stored in the Artillery Museum. On the butt of a submachine gun, a sign was strengthened: “Made in Leningrad during an enemy blockade. 1942. Many PPDs of the Leningrad production had, instead of a sectoral sight, a simplified folding one.

By the way, the plants named after Voskov and Kulakov served as a good basis for organizing the mass production of another submachine gun - PPS.

TACTICAL AND TECHNICAL CHARACTERISTICS OF PPD OBR. 1940

Cartridge 7,62x25 TT
Mass weapons with cartridges 5,4 kg
Weapon length 778 mm
Barrel length 278 mm
Initial bullet speed 500 m / s
Firing rate 900-1100 rds / min
Combat rate of fire, od. / Auth. 30 / 100-120 rds / min
Sighting range 500 m
71 magazine capacity
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  1. Denis
    Denis 7 September 2013 08: 58 New
    +1
    Article +
    it is a pity that it was difficult to manufacture and required skilled workers, it was tight with them in the War, and there was little to spare
    1. Hon
      Hon 7 September 2013 20: 39 New
      0
      nothing during WWII PPSh and PPS was abundant
      1. Denis
        Denis 8 September 2013 12: 20 New
        +2
        Quote: Hon
        during WWII PPSh and PPS was abundant
        I do not duplicate the misconceptions of the unfortunate historian, more likely the Basovskaya hysteria, which spreads snot about soldiers and rifles. Information that the three-ruler was the main small arms and the German carbine is pro-Putin

        I'm talking about when skilled workers went to the front to release it became more difficult
        1. Hon
          Hon 8 September 2013 20: 50 New
          0
          The main weapon of the German infantry was the Mauser K98k carbine - a shortened (although not so circumcised - Germans until the 45th year called the carbine not a short rifle, but a converted for cavalry) version of the original Mauser Gew rifle. 98, and MP-40 was only among the squad leaders (this was at the beginning of the Second World War), which roughly corresponded to the distribution of PPSh in the Soviet army, although we had more submachine guns for the infantry company than the Germans. Massively MP-40 was used only by tankers, paratroopers and rear units. In fairness, the German army was better equipped with machine guns (wunderwafer w: MG-34), which was stronger than the presence of the MP-40.
          Quote: Denis
          I'm talking about when skilled workers went to the front to release it became more difficult

          Our industry also produced more sophisticated equipment, this machine was not needed because there were better PPSh and PPS
          1. Denis
            Denis 9 September 2013 00: 03 New
            0
            Quote: Hon
            In fairness, the German army was better equipped with machine guns (wunderwafer w: MG-34)
            It was grief, Maxim is heavy and tall, especially not manual, and the tarry fighters did not favor
            It was not from a good life that the civil war Lewis pulled from warehouses
            Quote: Hon
            PPP
            He is generally admirable, worked in the besieged St. Petersburg from what was and how it turned out
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 9 September 2013 00: 15 New
              +3
              Quote: Denis
              It was grief, Maxim is heavy and tall, especially not manual, and the tarry fighters did not favor

              Both MG-34 and Maxim can be called heavy machine guns, both in purpose and in weight.
              PD - "handbrake", the so-called light. And it was not bad.
              But in general, yes, the Red Army experienced certain difficulties in this niche. Machine guns Goryunov and DShK could not become an adequate replacement for the "maxim".
  2. il grand casino
    il grand casino 7 September 2013 09: 46 New
    +1
    Eh. I saw cartridges and remembered how many of them in childhood I found different beams on the Don. Both ours and German ...
  3. aszzz888
    aszzz888 7 September 2013 10: 38 New
    +1
    The cartridge is too good. It still stands higher in terms of slaughter "Luger", 45 cal. and etc.
    But this is apparently a separate issue.
    1. Aleks21
      Aleks21 7 September 2013 11: 58 New
      +1
      In range, penetration power, among pistol cartridges, he was not equal in the forties. But for pistols he did not fit well - too powerful, high returns - low resource of weapons. And stopping the action is low - small caliber.
    2. Hon
      Hon 7 September 2013 20: 43 New
      0
      the lethal force is just not high, the caliber is small and the speed is large, it just pierced the body, and 45 caliber tore the carcass. advantage 7.62 longer range
  4. castle
    castle 7 September 2013 11: 11 New
    0
    More likely in penetration, but not in slaughter. For battle, especially when civilians are running around and screaming, the 45th caliber is better. They are all at subsonic speeds, they will put a person right away and will not fly through, so there are no needlessly wounded civilians. But! For the army, 9 mm Luger or 40 S&W and .357 SIG are better.
  5. Colonelic
    Colonelic 7 September 2013 15: 50 New
    +1
    Once I happened to hold in my hands PPD arr. 1940.
    Even without cartridges, this product of V.A. Degtyarev seemed to me significant in weight and rather complicated in design ...
    But this machine, I think, nevertheless played its role in the beginning of the Second World War. PPSh-41 has not yet been massively adopted by the Red Army.
    1. Hariva
      Hariva 7 September 2013 21: 38 New
      +2
      Everything can be refreshed in memory!
      In Prokhorovka, in the museum, there is a special table)))). Pistols, submachine guns, machine guns, rifles, machine guns, both ours and German. You can touch everything - play around. Click the shutter trigger, but at least disassemble! On the chains, of course.
      But there are purely subjective observations. PPSh in comparison with "Schmeiser" is very heavy. But it is somehow more convenient to hold it, even in spite of the perpendicular horn. The rifles are surprisingly light. And the "Walters" look like prehistoric mastodons next to the cute "Makarov".
      1. castle
        castle 8 September 2013 10: 10 New
        0
        Most likely, a submachine gun MP 38 or MP 38/40, or MP 40 will start at the museum in Prokhorovka, but this is not a Schmeisser. This weapon was created by Berthold Geipel and Heinrich Volmer. Hugo Schmeisser created the MP-18 (similar to the PPD, only the store is on the left side) and the StG 44. But I was not in this museum, maybe there is also a "Schmeisser" MP-18.
      2. kanifas
        kanifas 8 September 2013 14: 32 New
        0
        There used to be a saying "as handsome as Porabellum", the most beautiful weapon of all time. And the Makarov next to him is a short-haired shorty.
        1. Witold
          Witold 8 September 2013 19: 58 New
          0
          Parabellum is really beautiful. I have one under the patron of Mauser 7.63 1918goda. I shoot from it sometimes.
          1. Denis
            Denis 8 September 2013 23: 52 New
            0
            Quote: Vitold
            Parabellum is really beautiful.
            Probably everyone in childhood played such plastic, of course, quietly knowing the brand
            As soon as the ideology department missed such a toy? laughing request
            1. Witold
              Witold 10 September 2013 20: 44 New
              0
              You are Thomas an unbeliever. Could notice in which country I live. Here's a closer view of Luger.
        2. Witold
          Witold 8 September 2013 20: 01 New
          +1
          And this 1941 is 9mm.
  6. nazgul-ishe
    nazgul-ishe 7 September 2013 19: 08 New
    -4
    As usual, we adapted something for ourselves or invented our own?
    1. Hon
      Hon 7 September 2013 20: 45 New
      +1
      while others do not adapt and invent nothing for themselves?
    2. Truth-lover
      Truth-lover 7 September 2013 22: 35 New
      +3
      As usual, smart people did not invent a bicycle. and, as usual, the narrow-minded skeptic tried to reproach them with this. Everything is as usual.
  7. Sour
    Sour 7 September 2013 21: 50 New
    +1
    However, it was in 1939 that the fate of the PPD was in question. At the initiative of the People's Commissariat of Defense, the issue of stopping the production of submachine guns was discussed.
    That's right. It was such a disgrace.
    KE Voroshilov generally declared submachine guns "police weapons", and the PPD was planned to be removed from production.
    However, at the request of L.P. Beria, the PPD was left in production, since he requested it to be armed with the border and internal troops of the NKVD. The army commanders waved their hand: "Take it, this is your weapon, but in the Red Army it is useless."
    When the Finnish war broke out, I had to collect the RPDs at the frontier posts and send them to the front, because there were no machine guns except the NKVD.
    It was only in 1940 that an NPO came to its senses and asked to start mass production of PPD. However, at the beginning of the war, the bulk of the PPD was still with the border guards. In parts of the Red Army there were extremely few of them.
  8. Admiral 013
    Admiral 013 8 September 2013 14: 54 New
    +1
    It always has been. As soon as we created something new, they immediately rushed to accuse us of copying.
    1. Denis
      Denis 8 September 2013 16: 56 New
      0
      Quote: Admiral 013
      As soon as we created something new, they immediately rushed to accuse us of copying.
      That’s not new, but worse is not clever
      Take at least the Tu-144, which is stupidly called a Russian concord, despite one stubborn thing-facts
      Tu-144 The first flight of December 31 1968
      Concord First Flight March 2, 1969
      not important, still copied
      Or AK copied from a German assault rifle. That the different principle of the shutter mechanism is not important, it looks like
  9. sergeschern
    sergeschern 8 September 2013 15: 23 New
    0
    Anyone interested can read (online) on this subject the book of the People's Commissar of Arms B.L. Vannikov (in particular, p. 10) - http://www.libok.net/writer/11723/kniga/47020/vannikov_boris/zapiski_narkoma/rea

    d / 10
  10. Al Asad
    Al Asad 8 September 2013 23: 10 New
    +1
    I have a grandmother (90 years will be next year) throughout the war, made these machine guns and anti-tank rifles in Kovrov near Moscow. She told me that even Degtyareva saw
    1. alone
      alone 8 September 2013 23: 19 New
      +2
      GOD give her to live to 100. here thanks to such grandmothers our grandfathers also made the VICTORY !!
      hi
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 8 September 2013 23: 26 New
        +1
        A bow to them all low!
  11. andruha70
    andruha70 9 September 2013 00: 02 New
    +1
    or am I a teapot ... repeat or, where does the ppd and pps and finns? ... request maybe who will enlighten?
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 9 September 2013 00: 08 New
      +5
      Quote: andruha70
      maybe who will enlighten?

      Some "wise men" from history, diligently attribute the relationship of the Finnish "Suomi" with the PPSh.
      I, probably, too often refer to "10 myths ..." by A. Isaev, but there this topic is sorted out almost thoroughly.
    2. aviator65
      aviator65 9 September 2013 00: 15 New
      +1
      The Finnish Suomi had a similar layout.
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 9 September 2013 00: 34 New
        +1
        Suomi-konepistooli M / 31 (KP / -31, Suomi KP) is a Finnish submachine gun of the Aimo Lahti system. There was also a less known and mass model of 7,65 mm caliber, KP / -26, which was produced in small quantities since 1926. It was in service in Finland (since 1931) and a number of other countries, it was used in the Soviet-Finnish War and the Great Patriotic War.
  12. andruha70
    andruha70 9 September 2013 11: 33 New
    +1
    stalkerwalker, aviator65, alex 241 - thank you so much! for clarification ... hi now everything has become clear and understandable ...
    in small quantities produced since 1926. It was in service in Finland (since 1931) and a number of other countries, it was used in the Soviet-Finnish War and the Great Patriotic War.
    in SMALL quantities, and I can produce some kind of RPG ... wink and what? pipe, charge, jet engine, well, and the circuit is not large, so that it reacts to noise or engine heat ... lol the question is who put it on stream, in terms of quality and quantity ... tongue
  13. Totll
    Totll 11 September 2013 15: 20 New
    0
    The PPD is not a copy of the Finnish Suomi. And yet, when creating the PPD, a lot of ideas were taken from the Finnish "Suomi". "Drum" is so exactly an almost complete copy of the Finnish counterpart. The buttstock, barrel shirt and many other little things at the PPD are made, as they say, "based on" Fin.