The arms of Robert Hillberg. Part five

Comments

[Walking]

I remember these films with Charles Bronson.

[mirag2]

Awesome article!
In detail, and talked about almost everything related to this product!
p.merikosy like to hunt with large pistols (revolvers) for a large beast.

[Nester]

Externally it looks like a combination of a pistol and a revolver. It's very much an acquired taste, in my opinion the Desert Eagle is much more harmonious. Although, if you have a lot of money and your safe is filled to the brim with weapons, then "just to have it" you can buy it.
PS What kind of return ...

[PSih2097]

Quote: Nester

PS What kind of return ...

judging by the video, smaller than that of the "eagle" ...

[Artyom]

With such power, this gun, the butt butt like that of the Mauser did not stop!

[Mister X]

Quote: Artyom

With such power, this gun, the butt butt like that of the Mauser did not stop!

Tomorrow I'll post a sequel: there is just about options.

[Major_Vortex]

If I could still post a good article in Russian on P7 pistols of the German company Heckler & Koch. Of the pistols on gas exhaust automation, they were the best in my opinion. They were in service with the police in the Federal Republic of Germany and in the USA. The prices for these pistols in the states today are just off the charts with collectors.

[Peacemaker]

Actually, the P7 does not have a gas vent, but gas braking of a half-free shutter.
The system is not bad, but very critical to pollution.

[Major_Vortex]

With a gas outlet means a gas outlet. And what is the principle of locking or "braking", this is a separate conversation. It is not entirely logical to call the automatics operating with the use of gas outlet in the side wall of the barrel "not gas outlet". I know the structure and operation of this pistol. Now the Walther company begins to produce a pistol on similar automation - Walther CCP:



At P7, many interesting innovations were applied in the design, in addition to the shutter. The gun is worthy of a separate article.

[gross kaput]

They do not have "gas-operated automatics", they work on the principle of free shutter recoil with gas braking, the principle itself with the removal of some of the gases immediately behind the chamber into the cavity of the brake cylinder is borrowed from the experimental Horn 44g machine gun. handle, when the handle is released, the drummer is removed from the combat platoon. There are three variants of the pistol - P7M8 with a single-row magazine for 8 rounds 9X19, P7M13 with a double-row for 13 cartridges 9X19 and P7K3 with a free shutter without gas braking for 7,65X17, 9X17 and 22LR.
The project itself turned out to be quite a failure, it was produced for a very short time and was replaced by the "classic" P9S, despite the claims of HC that the pistol is in service in many countries, the real sales volumes are very small - hence the horse's price for collectors.

[Major_Vortex]

We have already decided on the "gas-operated automatics". But I disagree about the failure of the pistol. A very accurate and safe pistol in operation, the reliability of the fully automatic fuse is higher than that of any other pistol equipped with automatic fuses. For self-defense purposes, this is an ideal construction.
Among the shortcomings: more than the pistol of the usual design, the number of parts of the gun and more complex and lengthy cleaning of the gun compared to guns without gas outlet. With long shooting ranges in the shooting range, several hundred shots each, the brush gets tired of continuously squeezing the handle (if you release the key, the gun automatically rises to the fuse)

He was armed with the police of Germany and the United States. I did not write about other countries.

[gross kaput]

Quote: Mayor_Vikhr

by venting means gas venting.

Well, as it were, in Russia, the basic weapon concepts have long been established, and the term "gas automatic equipment" refers to weapons where the gas outlet is the leading link of automation ensuring the operation of all other mechanisms. And those structures where the effect of gases is an auxiliary function in Russia is usually called according to the principle of automation that plays a leading role, in this case systems with a free or with a semi-free shutter with gas braking. At the end of the war, several of them appeared in Germany - the Barnitzke pistol and carbine and the Horn machine gun.
Well, if you follow your logic, then many machine guns, including Maxim and MG34, can be called "gas-operated" there, after all, gases play a role in automation - since they are "diverted" into the muzzles and increase the recoil force of the barrel.

Quote: Mayor_Vikhr

the reliability of the fully automatic fuse is higher than that of any other pistol equipped with automatic fuses

There is no automatic fuse, but there is a sear located on the platoon lever, when the squeeze lever is squeezed, the searer pulls the drummer back when the trigger is pressed, the sear drops and the drummer breaks, when the handle is released, the lever together with the sear and the drummer returns to the intermediate half-position.
This video is in the topic, will help you understand how the USM R7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D2TIZ1bXIk

[Major_Vortex]

Quote: gross kaput

Well, as it were, in Russia, the basic weapon concepts have long been established, and the term "gas automatic equipment" refers to weapons where the gas outlet is the leading link of automation ensuring the operation of all other mechanisms.

How did you define the "leading link" in the work of automation? In any case, the recoil energy of the cartridge when fired is used in the work of automation and nothing more. The gas outlet only activates the mechanism of "unlocking" the shutter or slowing down its opening, in the case of a semi-free shutter.
Is there a gas outlet, the energy of the gases flowing out through this gas outlet is used in the operation of the automation, but there is no "gas outlet automation"? Not entirely logical

What you call "not a fuse" is just a fuse. There were no other fuses in the basic pistol. This was precisely the idea of ​​the developers, so that the pistol was brought into a fully firing position by simply gripping the pistol grip with a hand - no unnecessary movements: quickly and efficiently.

Heckler & Koch returned to the striker-fired trigger in the VP 9 model:



In addition to the P7 caliber 9mmX19, another pistol model was produced, having a .40S & W caliber, with a magazine for 10 rounds.

All models of the gun had a low fixed barrel, which positively affected the accuracy and accuracy of fire. Plus, lightning fast bringing it into full combat position by simply pulling it out of its holster.

[bazilio]

The article is interesting, thanks to the author.

The pistol is interesting, of unusual design, but still it is a "toy" for men. I don't see any practical use for this barrel. Combat use can be immediately discarded, hunting is an amateur. besides, who to hunt with such a barrel? for medium and large game? so it’s better which carbine to take. For sports, I don’t know. So it's a purely entertainment barrel.

[Artyom]

The only reason it could be acquired is as a weapon of second chance, when hunting dangerous animals, when the main weapon fails, everything is better than a knife!

[corporal]

The idea of ​​creating a gas vent pistol is the respect of the developer. That it turned out only an expensive toy for fans to shoot ...

[Bongo]

In the early 80s, a very rare then book by the famous weapons historian A.B. Beetle "Pistols and Revolvers". Even then, I was amazed at the power of this pistol. If I am not mistaken in the book it was called "Automag".
The film with C. Bronson where this weapon appears looked much later.
Charles Bronson (Buchinsky) himself has Russian roots. During the war he served in aviation as a gunner on the B-29.

[Mister X]

Quote: Bongo

If I am not mistaken in the book it was called "Automag".

AMT (Arcadia Machine & Tool) AutoMag is another weapon that works on a different principle.
It appeared earlier than Wildey and was developed by another American: Harry Sanford.

The AutoMag I was powered by the .44AMP cartridges created on the basis of the shortened cartridge case of the .308 Winchester (7.62x51) and .357AMP.
The .357АМР cartridge was a sleeve for the .44АМР cartridge, pereobzhatuya under a bullet caliber 9mm
Later there were other versions:
AMT AutoMag II - chambered for .22 Magnum;
AMT AutoMag III - chambered for .30 Carbine from M1 carbine from the time of the 2 world war;
AMT AutoMag IV - chambered for. 45 Winchester Magnum;
AMT AutoMag V - chambered for .50 Action Express Magnum.

[Bongo]

Quote: Mister X

AMT (Arcadia Machine & Tool) AutoMag is another weapon that works on a different principle.

Yes, Michael, most likely it is. But these two "trunks" are similar both in appearance and in characteristics.

[Mooh]

Combat use can be immediately discarded

UAV shooting?

[Peacemaker]

Low-flying hippopotamus shooting

[Major_Vortex]

Pistols with automatic gas vents are overly complex and, therefore, not sufficiently reliable in operation. An example of such an unsuccessful design is the Israeli pistol "Eagle" ("Desert Eagle"), which never gained much popularity due to the "generic diseases" of this type of automation.

Such a weapon will not go beyond a Hollywood movie and private collections.

The genius of weapons designer John Moses Browning does not allow many engineers to sleep peacefully:

[barmaley]

Desert Eagle - American, and in Israel it was only produced.

[Major_Vortex]

The pistol was patented by American Bernard S. White of Magnum Research. And the final refinement of the gun and its production was carried out by the Israeli company IMI.

[gross kaput]

Quote: Mayor_Vikhr

Pistols with gas exhaust automation are excessively complex and therefore not reliable enough in operation.

Well, don't put all your eggs in one basket, the gas bleed was chosen only because of the super-powerful cartridge for which a traditional pistol cannot be made (the only attempt was the LAR Grizzly - based on 1911, it was really extremely unsuccessful, which is why it was produced for only a few years, and the company itself has only been producing spare parts for a small number of these pistols that were previously sold for about twenty years - so evaluate the reliability). The cartridge itself, due to its excessive power, is initially unsuitable as a combat/service/civilian cartridge and is designed for all sorts of entertainment from hunting to shooting at refrigerators, and accordingly, pistols/revolvers for such cartridges are created exclusively for entertaining banging.

[Major_Vortex]

If you do not pervert with ammunition, then under the native cartridge of .45ACP caliber (which is not a little at all), with a well-established production, the Browning gun works wonders:



And this is a normal, combat, Colt 1911, .45ACP caliber, which is available for 10 and 14-charge stores.

[Free wind]

Cool gun. but in this segment, and ours are good. Beautiful weapon. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mama_Cholli]

Why are they striving to make pistols monstrous in size, weight and recoil?
In a real city battle, will he really prevail over the Yarygin or the Beret 92?

[lexx2038]

Quote: Mama_Cholli

Why are they striving to make pistols monstrous in size, weight and recoil?
In a real city battle, will he really prevail over the Yarygin or the Beret 92?

That there was an illusion as if you had a knee

[Uzer 13.]

The pistol is made in the highest quality category, starting with the selection of metal and ending with the execution. The design of the gas unit is successful and original. It is certainly not cheap, but it’s not a mass-consumption weapon. For Russian conditions, such cartridges are not quite suitable, since nobody wants to buy such a weapon of us does not shine. Ring pistons are widely used in hunting weapons, they did not complain about reliability, they easily withstand 50 thousand shots. In the photo, the gas piston of the MP-153 rifle. The cylinder itself is mounted motionless on the barrel, has spring gas marketing regulator.

[ramsi]

annular pistons, maybe nothing, but five "punctures" in the barrel ... What is their diameter ?!

[gross kaput]

Quote: Mama_Cholli

In a real city battle, will he really prevail over the Yarygin or the Beret 92?

Here everyone writes posts without reading other people's previous?
Both the pistol and the cartridge are NOT INTENDED for "urban combat" they were created purely for ENTERTAINMENT ie. hunting and shooting all kinds of trash like old refrigerators and televisions.

[Massik]

"From behind there was a rumble of glass blown out by the muzzle of something solid ..." In the forest with pathological fear they will encounter a bear, to take it quite reasonably)