Military Review

The arms of Robert Hillberg. Part five

32
Dear readers! This is the fifth material in a series of publications devoted to arms, designed by American designer Robert Hillberg (Robert Hillberg).


In previous installments I introduced you to multi-shotguns. Winchester liberator (Liberator) and Colt defender (Protector), four-barreled concealed pistol COP .357 Derringer as well as with a small caliber gun Whitney wolverine.

Today I will introduce you to the gun Wildey.

This material describes little-known events and contains some of the forgotten facts 35-40-year-old. Therefore, my article is different from most of the works devoted to stories creating a Wildey pistol and even from the information posted on the manufacturer's official website.

Wildey (Wilde) - the first gun in the world, which uses the principle of automation, based on the removal of powder gases from the barrel. That is, like a Kalashnikov assault rifle or an M-16 assault rifle.

This powerful gun for hunting and sports-target shooting owes its appearance to the world to a greater extent to two personalities: a man named Wildey J. Moore and Robert Hillberg, who you already know.

His chamber holds the pressure of powder gases in the barrel to 48,000 psi (3,164 kg / cm² or 330.9 MPa) and more. It has been produced over the years with 30 over the years by the campaign of Wildey FA Incorporated (Wildey Guns), which is located in the USA, in the city of Worren, Michigan. Prior to this, the firm was located in the cities of Cheshire (Cheshire), Connecticut and Brookfield (Brookfield), Minnesota.

Wildey pistol was widely known and is still sold mainly due to the movie “Death Wish - 3” (Death Wish III) 1985, with Charles Bronson in the lead role.

The arms of Robert Hillberg. Part five


A shot from my favorite movie “Red Sun” 1971 of the year. Starring Charles Bronson and Alain Delon.


The founder of the campaign, Wilde Moore, often repeats: “As soon as the cable TV shows“ Death Death ”, in which Charles Bronson, shooting a Wildey pistol, literally“ knocks out ”the bad guys' shoes, orders start to pour on us ". So Charles Bronson can be considered the face of Wildey, and the film with his participation - as a commercial and the engine of commerce.



Wildie Moore and Charles Bronson


The Wildey pistol is comparable in power, size and weight to the famous Desert Eagle, and although it is less popular with the “Desert Eagle”, it is more than a dozen years older than it.



“Classmates” Wildey and Desert Eagle.


Campaign founder Wilde Moore is called self-taught, who started his business from scratch. His career began at the US subsidiary of Stoeger Corp. - Benelli Campaign subsidiary, which, in turn, is owned by Beretta. He worked in the quality control department and was engaged in the troubleshooting of component parts from which weapons were assembled.
His responsibilities included studying and assessing the quality of parts, compiling statistics on their characteristic breakdowns. There he quickly learned to analyze the details and identify the shortcomings of their design.

Then Mr. Moore worked closely with the Winchester campaign, and then he helped the Swedish campaign of Husqvarna AB to adapt its products for the American market. This old campaign, founded by decree of the Swedish king Gustav II Adolf almost 400 years ago, already produced muskets for His Majesty’s army back then.

Husqvarna’s campaign in Russia is better known for its civilian products: it produces garden equipment (lawn mowers, gasoline-powered saws, snow throwers), sewing machines, motorcycles, and garden tractors.

There is nothing surprising and supernatural in this: after all, the American manufacturer and inventor Eli (Eli) Whitney, whom I wrote about in my previous article, began by saying that he had developed a machine for producing nails as a youth, and he “thundered” all over America. years later, after he had designed and patented a cotton gin (cotton-gin).

“Cannon King” Alfred Krupp (the largest supplier of weapons of his era) began his business with the production of night pots, knives and forks at a small manufactory in Essen.

At the beginning of the 20 century, Rheinmetall and Walther produced mechanical counting machines, and they released them both before and after World War II.

More recently, Oleg Falichev in his article reminded us that Tulamashzavod, one of the largest defense enterprises in Russia, was created in 1939 in the year as a machine-tool factory.

And Uralvagonzavod? And Izhevsk mechanical?

Unknown pages of history

Back in 1979, Wildie Moore admitted to Guns & Ammo editor Howard E. French that work on the creation of a powerful automatic pistol with a gas engine, which lasted about 7 years, had been started in Sweden, in the Husqvarna campaign : the one that Mr. Moore helped to adapt his products for the American market.

But gradually, the Swedes' interest in the development of the superpun began to weaken, and Wildie Moore seized the initiative and continued, which eventually bore fruit. True, not without outside help.

Be that as it may, on April 25 of 1974 of the year Wildie Moore filed a patent application, and on November 02 of 1976 of the year it was published (No. US 3988964 A). The patent was issued on the “Gas operated mechanism with adjustment for firearms” (Gas operated firearm with metering adjustment).





Photocopies of a patent issued by Wildie Moore on the gas-operated gas-exhaust mechanism


Whoever has the desire and opportunity to get acquainted with the patent formula and a detailed description of the mechanism in the original (English), will find it HERE.

In short, the principle of operation of the automation system is as follows: an annular piston with a short stroke is located in the cylinder around a fixed barrel, directly in front of the gate and is driven by powder gases that flow through the holes in the barrel. The pressure of the gases in the cylinder can be adjusted using a gas regulator, made in the form of a rotary ring, draped over the barrel.

As I already wrote, this is the first gun in the world with such automation and a gas regulator. Prior to this, gas regulators were used in weapons of other classes: for example, in the German FG-42 assault rifle, in most machine guns (Hotchkiss, RPD, PC / PKM, FN MAG, Etc., Etc., Etc.) or even in the secondary medium APS ( underwater special machine).

There are at least 6 opposing patents published in the period from 1901 to 1976. Moreover, the 2 of the most “recent” patents are granted to the Finnish conglomerate Valmet Oy.

I suppose that in the next few years, the novice designer spent his free time not only doing debugging tests and working on refining his gas exhaust mechanism, but he also worked on creating the remaining components and mechanisms, their layout, on the appearance of his future pistol. He paid special attention to the location of the weapon's controls: the magazine's latch button, the slide latch lever, the safety catch box. Even the shape of the handle and the angle of its inclination, he tried to make as close as possible to the one that was on the Colt-Browning M1911. This was done to ensure that the shooters did not have any problems with retraining and acted on the level of muscle memory: as they used the Colt, so use the Wildie.

Footprints lead to Winchester

It is not known how the fate of the Wildie Moore pistol would have been, do not dare to campaign Winchester to continue work on the development of two new cartridges: 9 mm (.357) Winchester Magnum and .45 Winchester Magnum.
But after long disputes, calculations, failures, approvals, disagreements, tests and measurements, the epic with the development was completed, and new cartridges began to leave the assembly line.



9 mm (.357) Winchester Magnum and .45 Winchester Magnum.


Shortly thereafter, Wild Moore presented his first ideas embodied in metal to the arms lovers: the 2 prototype pistols for the new Winchester Magnum cartridges. Both prototypes were almost identical, and identify the model chambered for 9 mm Win. Magnum was possible only on a grooved trunk.

The very first shooting confirmed that the "gas automatic" reduces the recoil impulse. Thanks to it, the pistol, tentatively titled “9 mm Winchester Magnum Wildey” (pictured below), had the same recoil as a pistol powered by .38 S&W Special cartridges, while the “.45 Winchester Magnum Wildey” pistol was like a pistol chambered for .357 S&W Magnum.



The first Wildey Auto pistols: chambered for .45 Winchester Magnum (pictured above) and 9 mm Winchester Magnum (pictured below).


Virtually all parts of the gun were made of stainless steel: the bolt and rotary ring of the gas regulator (The bolt and barrel extension) were made of martensitic-aging stainless steel of type 17-4 PH, the frame, casing-gate and the barrel of stainless martensitic steel with sulfur content ( 416-i), and small parts made of 410-th steel.



The frame of the gun Wildey Auto is made very high quality,
machine processing


Pistols were equipped with adjustable pillar, made only gaining popularity at the time, Jimmy Clark Sr. (Clark Custom Guns Inc). The capacity of the magazine for the model for the .45 Winchester Magnum cartridges was 8 pieces, and for the 9 mm Winchester Magnum - 15 pieces. Versions with different barrel lengths were available: 5 ”, 6”, 7 ”, 8” and 10 ”.

The first prototypes of pistols weighed about 60 ounces (1,701 gr.), But later they “lost weight” and weighed with a standard 6 barrel, depending on the caliber of the 51 cartridge and 53 ounces, respectively (1,446 and 1,503 gr.). For example, the Ruger Redhawk revolver chambered for .44 Magnum with a barrel length of 7,5 ”weighed 48 ounces (1,361).



Please note: in the Wildey Auto pistol, the next cartridge is fed from the magazine directly to the chamber. This design eliminates the “sticking” and “distortions” of the cartridge.




Complete disassembly of the first generation Wildie gun


Further in the history there should be a gap, but I will try to fill it.
Most likely, Mr. Moore finished his gun, and he was put into production, and then went on sale. Perhaps the first batches were made on the side, but under the trademark Wildey. This happens sometimes. (Remember, I wrote that Samuel Colt did not have his own production facilities, and therefore placed an order for the production of his revolvers Colt Walker Model 1847 from his friend, Eli Whitney.) Then, when things started getting better, Wilde Moore could easily get a loan Bank for business expansion, built workshops, purchased equipment, hired staff, etc.

There was a time when it took money to expand the business, and Wild Moore let 75% of his campaign into free sale. Thus, the controlling stake went to random people who had nothing to do with the arms business and only stopped Moore’s decisions. In addition, a group of shareholders has launched an investment campaign in order to gain control over Wildey Inc.

In January, 1983, Wildie Moore was fired from her own campaign, but without it, the company went bankrupt in less than a year. Mr. Moore took several years of hard work to get his business back on its feet.



First generation Wildey pistol on magazine cover
Guns & Ammo, May 1979


The estimated cost of Wildie Auto pistols started at $ 389, while the average monthly salary in the US in 1979 was $ 956,62. The first-generation Wildey pistol changing capabilities were not provided, and if the shooter wanted to have pistols for both the .45 Winchester Magnum cartridge and the 9 mm Win. Magnum, he would have to buy two pistols. Whether they had the ability to replace barrels (removed the barrel of a standard length 6 ”and replaced it with an 10” of the same caliber) is unknown. Perhaps this was all realized later, in the second-generation pistols.



Clipping from the magazine "GUNS & AMMO" for 1979 with the performance characteristics of the Wildey pistol.


How many pistols of the first generation were produced is unknown.
Over the years, the history of the first-generation Wildey pistols was forgotten, and the manufacturer’s official website is modestly silent about these facts.

Another version

Most of the materials with which I was able to read, writes about it differently. While still at work at the Stoeger Corporation, Wildie Moore had the idea of ​​creating a powerful automatic pistol of his own design, and he had been working on it for a dozen years. Wildie Moore developed his pistol for specially designed for it .45 Wildey Magnum and .475 Wildey Magnum cartridges.

This is someone's mistake, which is reprinted from one article to another during 30 years. The .475 Wildey Magnum cartridge was developed in 1977 and began to be produced and marketed 2 a year later (in 1979), but already in 1977, sales of the Wildey Auto pistol chambered for 9 mm (.357) Winchester Magnum and. 45 Winchester Magnum. It is possible that the Wildey Magnum family cartridges were conceived during the testing and fine-tuning of the first-generation Wildy pistols. And the second generation of pistols really could have been developed taking into account the created ammunition.

Ammunition wildey magnum

On the official website of Wildey, they concisely write that the company holds the patent for the .475 Wildey Magnum cartridge. Maybe such a patent exists, but I was looking bad.

.475 Wildey Magnum / 12x30mm / SAA 8720 / XCR 12 030 CRC 010. In the English Wikipedia there is information that the .475 Wildey Magnum cartridge was developed in 1977 by Winchester. Donor for Wildey pistol cartridge was the .284 Winchester Magnum rifle cartridge (7x55) with a sleeve length of 55,12 mm. The liner length was reduced to 30,4 mm, and the dulce was pereobzhal to the diameter of the bullet. 475 "(12.1 mm.). The total length of the cartridge is 40,0 mm, and the capacity of the sleeve is 32 gr. Water or 2,5 cm 3. The cartridges. 475 Wildey Mag are made with a bullet FMJMX230. 14,9 Gran (265 gr.) And with JHP and JSP bullets weighing 17,17 (300 gr.), 19,4 (350) and 22,68 Gran (490 gr.) Depending on the type of bullet, powder charge and length of the barrel from which it flies, its initial speed varies within 560-2300 m / s, and the energy of the 2600-18 bullet J. The following relationship is considered optimal: 300 BlueDot powder and JSP-type X bullet NUMX gran. In this case, the bullet speed is equal to 1610 fps (490 m / s) and the energy of the bullet is 1727 foot-pounds (2341 J.). With a barrel length of 18 ”(see 45,72), these values ​​are higher, they are comparable to the bullet , released from a Kalashnikov.



Right to left: .44 Auto Mag., .45 Winchester Magnum cartridges,
.45 Wildey Magnum, .475 Wildey Magnum


.45 Wildey Magnum / 11mm Wildey / 11mm Wildey Magnum / .45 Wildey / ECRA-ECDV 11 030 BRC 010. The donor for the .45 Wildey cartridge was the .45 Winchester Magnum. Available with FMJ bullets weighing 230, 250 and 260 gran and powder attachment from 22,0 to 19,5 gran, respectively. The average bullet velocity varies around 1829 fps (557,5 m / s).

Prices

On the manufacturer's website prices for ammunition for Wildey pistols are not listed. They write: contact, say, the nearest dealer. And on ammo-one.com .45 Wildey and .475 Wildey cartridges can be ordered for $ 4,95 / pcs.



At different times, specifically for Wildey 6 ammunition types have been developed: .30 Wildey (.30 Wildey Magnum), .357 Peterbilt (.357 Wildey Magnum), .41 Wildey Magnum (10 mm Wildey Magnum), .44 Wildey Magnum (11 mm Wildey Magnum) .45 Wildey Magnum, .475 Wildey Magnum.

As far as I know, only 2 of the lower type of cartridges from this list and, accordingly, weapons for them are produced.

The WILDEY is made for handloaders!

Wildie created for hendloder! As Wiederlader wrote in his article, self-equipment of ammunition is a pleasure for a few lucky people who are able to appreciate the beauty of a hand-made shot. Article on the site Kalibr.RU.

I will not write much - many of you understand this much more than me. I will cite just a few numbers. On the Wildey website, for $ 65,95, you can order 100 brass sleeves for 475 cartridges (.475 Wildey Brass 100 pieces). It is not known, they are supplied with or without caps. There also offer to buy and matrix (Dies).



Gunpowder will have to look on the side.

Wildey recommends using custom bullets from a leading manufacturer for self-equipping cartridges for their pistols: Hawk Precision Bullets.

And for the formation of sleeves for .475 Wildey cartridges from .284 Winchester donors, I found the following matrix sets: Case Forming Die Set (CFDS) from the manufacturer RCBS.



In addition to sleeves, dies and gunpowder, reloding will require a press, dosing units and scales, a capsule, a trimmer, a trickler, chemical reagents and much more. In addition, the hands that grow from where it is necessary, and the head, which guesses not to arrange a workshop in his kitchen or garage.

Remember, in the novel by Ilf and Petrov “12 chairs” Father Fyodor dreamed of a small candle factory? Throwing up an idea: a combine for mass production of cartridges.



As far as I can tell, this is an occupation for wealthy gun gourmets, who also have plenty of free time.

The second part of Marlezonsky ballet

It seems to me that some time later, Wildie Moore, as an experienced defector and the most interested person in the entire enterprise, analyzed customer reviews and came to the conclusion that his product needs further refinement.

As a result, 2 June 1980, Wilde Moore submits an application, and 15 February 1983, publishes a patent for the “Gas-operated mechanism with automatic gas regulator” (Gas operated mechanism having automatic pressure regulator). Patent formula and detailed description in the original (Eng.) HERE.

I am sure that after creating a new gas automatics Moore experienced difficulties. Why do I think so? Judge for yourself: Robert Hillberg's patented technical solutions are used in his gun.

Two years later (11 September 1978) after the publication of Wilde Moore's patent for his first generation vapor valve (count a year and a half after the start of production) Robert Hillberg submits an application to the US Patent and Trademark Office, and 24 June 1980 a patent is published on the “Firearm hammer blocking safety mechanism”. The mechanism blocked the trigger and trigger and also impeded the movement of the firing pin.



Patent for “Firearm hammer blocking safety mechanism”


Patent formula and detailed description in the original (Eng.) HERE
The patentee becomes the Wildey Firearms Company.

Then another 2 patent inventor Robert Hillberg becomes the property of the Wildey Firearms campaign.

The method of attachment of the cheeks to the handle of a firearm (Firearm grip assembly). Thanks to this uncomplicated device, the side panels of the handle (cheek) were fastened without screws, and with the help of spring clasps: as with some TT pistols and Korovin. Application filed on 29 on January 1979 of the year, published on 09 on September of 1980.



Patent for fixing cheeks to firearm grip (Firearm grip assembly)


Patent formula and detailed description in the original (Eng.) HERE

Mechanism for securely removing a magazine for small arms (Firearm magazine safety mechanism). Thanks to this mechanism, after triggering the magazine, the trigger of the weapon was blocked. Filed 12 March 1979-th, published 29 September 1981 of the year.



Patent for store safe retrieval mechanism
for small arms (Firearm magazine safety mechanism)


Patent formula and detailed description in the original (Eng.) HERE.

I believe that both designers could easily have met in the 60s of the last century in the Winchester campaign: I wrote a little higher that Wilddy Moore closely cooperated with this campaign, and Hillberg “wooed” his four-barreled shotgun Liberator with him at that time.

Apparently, the auspicious moment came when two engineers combined their efforts and brought the pistol, rare in terms of their qualities, to mind. After that, the Wildey pistol entered its mature stage: the second generation of Wildey pistols appeared.



Second Generation Wildey Pistol


In the Wildey system pistols automatic equipment is used with removal of a part of gases from the barrel and locking the barrel with a butterfly valve on an 3 combat stop.
To use the widest range of bullets and more accurate shooting, their barrels are fixed.

In short, the principle of operation of the automation system is as follows: an annular air-hydraulic piston (an air-hydraulic piston) with a short stroke is located in the gas cylinder around a stationary barrel, directly in front of the gate. It is driven by powder gases that flow through 6 gas vents drilled in front of the chamber around the circumference of the barrel.

After the shot in the gas cylinder, a pressure of powder gases is created, and when it reaches a value greater than the force of the return spring, the piston acts on the bolt and retracts it, unlocking the barrel bore.
At the same time, the liner is ejected.

Since the bullet has already left the barrel by this time, the overpressure of the gases is discharged through the barrel bore and / or the gas vent holes located in the gas tube at the end of the gas piston stroke, and the return spring begins to push the slide frame forward, filling the next cartridge into the chamber.

The gas pressure in the cylinder can be adjusted using the 6-position gas regulator, made in the form of a rotary ring (cap nut on the barrel). Adjusting the pressure of the powder gases (dosage) gives the shooter the opportunity to slightly reduce the recoil force to acceptable values: the weight of the powder may be different.



When the rotary ring is in the extreme left position, the access of powder gases to the cylinder is stopped, and the shutter cannot move backwards, but the gun can function in a non-automatic mode: after each shot the shooter hand-jams the slide frame and thus the next cartridge is removed into the chamber the trunk.



Barrels with interchangeable valves, which allows you to install on a single frame trunks as different lengths, and under the cartridges of different calibers. (Doesn't remind Hillberg TRI-MATIC?)

With the exception of the Silhouette and Carbine versions, other models are equipped with a double-action trigger. The fuse is located on the left side of the weapon frame. Sights (sight) adjustable, there is the possibility of installing multi-colored flies, there are fasteners for installation on the trunk of optical sights.







The force when pressing the trigger is 4 pounds (1,8 kg), but experienced shooters have the ability to adjust it.

45 Winchester Magnum pistols are available with 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12 and 14 barrels. Other cartridges are available with 8 length, 10 ", XNNX, 12", 14 ", XNUMX", XNUMX ", XNUMX", XNUMX ", XNUMX". ", but on special order you can get a barrel of any length.



According to the manufacturer, this gun is quite suitable for deer and bear hunting, but some successfully hunt for moose (from the Ussuri to the American).

The lineup

Survivor and Survivor Guardsman Series


Survivor - survivor, survivor. Guardsman - guard, guard. All Survivor and Survivor Guardsman pistols are made from bright stainless steel. Only in this they differ from the series Hunter and Hunter Guardsman.

Their only difference is the shape of the trigger guard. In the Survivor version pistols, the trigger guard has a rounded profile, and in the Survivor Guardsman pistols version, the trigger guard is angular in shape and is designed to hold the weapon when firing with both hands.



Hunter and Hunter Guardsman Series

Hunter is a hunter. Guardsman - guard, guard. All Hunter and Hunter Guardsman pistols are made of stainless steel with a matte finish (matte finish). This is their only difference from the Survivor and Survivor Guardsman pistols.

Let me explain by example. The Survivor Wildey Pistol differs from the Hunter Series Wildey Pistol only in that the first glitters like a mirror, and the second - matte. Another example. The Survivor Wildey pistol differs from the Hunter Guardsman Wildey pistol only in that the first glitters like a mirror and a trigger guard of a rounded shape, and the second with a matte finish and an angular trigger guard. In general, the "hunter on the nix". In my opinion, they have become too clever with their nomenclature.

Prices

The prices for Survivor and Hunter pistols depend on the barrel length.
When ordering, you can choose the shape of the trigger guard and the caliber of cartridges (this does not affect the price).





Models with a barrel length up to 7 "are available for .44 Auto Magnum and .45 Winchester Magnum cartridges. Models with a 8 barrel length" and more are available for .44 Auto Magnum, .45 Winchester Magnum and .45 cartridges. Wildey Magnum .



Wildey PIN GUN / Wildie Pin Gang

At the time, the manufacturer received a lot of letters from its customers, from which it became known that many of the owners of Wildie pistols are addicted to plinking (entertaining shooting at various non-standard targets). To be precise - then shooting bowling pins for bowling (Bowling Pin Shooting).

[media = http: //youtu.be/ZgUX1hpa64s]


Since the shooting is carried out not only for accuracy, but also for speed, and the recoil of the pistol is not childish, after each shot the barrel threw up strongly and it took time to restore the aiming on the target. Customers asked the manufacturer to reduce the recoil momentum without changing the caliber.

Taking into account the wishes of their clients, the campaign specialists responded immediately and developed a muzzle nozzle for damping recoil, but decided to make good money on the weaknesses of fast-keel lovers. As a result, interchangeable barrels of different lengths appeared and under cartridges of different calibers with integrated DTK.

As the manufacturer assures, the barrels with the DTK significantly reduce the recoil force, accelerate the preparation for the next shot and improve the accuracy of the battle. These barrels can be installed on almost any Wildie gun.

What customers do with their old trunks, I'll never know. Perhaps they shoot at refrigerators - in this case, special precision is not required.

The cost of barrels with a built-in muzzle brake-compensator depends on their length, finish (bright stainless steel or matte finish) and, possibly, caliber. The price of additional trunks with DTK varies from $ 670.30 to $ 1,248.00.

And for lovers of shuffling on pins that have not yet had time to get a Wildey system gun, the manufacturer offers a turnkey solution: Wildey PIN GUN.

This is the same gun, but it was originally equipped with a barrel with an integrated DTC.
You can order any combination: with a frame and barrel made of polished stainless steel or with a matte finish, with an angular or rounded trigger guard. Barrel length can also be chosen. 7 ", 8", 10 ", 12", and 14 versions are available.

Sources:
Frank C. Barnes “Cartridges of the World”
http://www.wildeyguns.com/
http://blog.modernmechanix.com
http://www.hawkbullets.com
http://www.illinoisgunshop.com
http://www.municion.org
http://forums.gunbroker.com
https://www.google.com/patents/
http://patents.justia.com
http://www.alsfirearmsblog.com
http://milpas.cc http://world.guns.ru/
http://blog.modernmechanix.com
http://www.armoury-online.ru
http://www.findpatent.ru
Movie Death Wish 3 "They killed the giggler!"



Wild Moore himself: gun presentation



GunWebsites Wildey Gun Review

[media = http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = Lptt1DHFJfg & list = PLhx7OpqPQIGCa07zRCCuPZRT_AqOrTFtP]

Wildey 475 Magnum auto dash shooting



475 Wildey Magnum shooting at water canisters

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  1. Walking
    Walking 11 August 2014 09: 50
    +2
    I remember these films with Charles Bronson.
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 12 August 2014 05: 14
      0
      Awesome article!
      In detail, and talked about almost everything related to this product!
      p.merikosy like to hunt with large pistols (revolvers) for a large beast.
  2. Nester
    Nester 11 August 2014 11: 21
    0
    Outwardly, it looks cobbled together from a pistol and a revolver. Quite an amateur, for me the Desert Eagle is much more harmonious. Although, if the money is full and the safe is stuffed with weapons to the eyeballs, then "purely so that it was" can be purchased.
    PS What kind of return ...
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 11 August 2014 12: 15
      0
      Quote: Nester
      PS What kind of return ...

      judging by the video, smaller than that of the "eagle" ...
      1. Artyom
        Artyom 11 August 2014 14: 06
        0
        With such power, this gun, the butt butt like that of the Mauser did not stop!
        1. Mister X
          11 August 2014 14: 10
          +3
          Quote: Artyom
          With such power, this gun, the butt butt like that of the Mauser did not stop!

          Tomorrow I'll post a sequel: there is just about options.
          1. Major_Vortex
            Major_Vortex 11 August 2014 15: 20
            +1
            If I could still post a good article in Russian on P7 pistols of the German company Heckler & Koch. Of the pistols on gas exhaust automation, they were the best in my opinion. They were in service with the police in the Federal Republic of Germany and in the USA. The prices for these pistols in the states today are just off the charts with collectors.

            1. Peacemaker
              Peacemaker 12 August 2014 12: 14
              0
              Actually, the P7 does not have a gas vent, but gas braking of a half-free shutter.
              The system is not bad, but very critical to pollution.
              1. Major_Vortex
                Major_Vortex 12 August 2014 16: 03
                0
                With a gas outlet means a gas outlet. And what is the principle of locking or "braking", this is a separate conversation. It is not entirely logical to call the automatics operating with the use of gas outlet in the side wall of the barrel "not gas outlet". I know the structure and operation of this pistol. Now the Walther company begins to produce a pistol on similar automation - Walther CCP:



                At P7, many interesting innovations were applied in the design, in addition to the shutter. The gun is worthy of a separate article.
            2. gross kaput
              gross kaput 12 August 2014 12: 18
              0
              They do not have "gas-operated automatics", they work on the principle of free shutter recoil with gas braking, the principle itself with the removal of some of the gases immediately behind the chamber into the cavity of the brake cylinder is borrowed from the experimental Horn 44g machine gun. handle, when the handle is released, the drummer is removed from the combat platoon. There are three variants of the pistol - P7M8 with a single-row magazine for 8 rounds 9X19, P7M13 with a double-row for 13 cartridges 9X19 and P7K3 with a free shutter without gas braking for 7,65X17, 9X17 and 22LR.
              The project itself turned out to be quite a failure, it was produced for a very short time and was replaced by the "classic" P9S, despite the claims of HC that the pistol is in service in many countries, the real sales volumes are very small - hence the horse's price for collectors.
              1. Major_Vortex
                Major_Vortex 12 August 2014 16: 20
                0
                We have already decided on the "gas-operated automatics". But I disagree about the failure of the pistol. A very accurate and safe pistol in operation, the reliability of the fully automatic fuse is higher than that of any other pistol equipped with automatic fuses. For self-defense purposes, this is an ideal construction.
                Among the shortcomings: more than the pistol of the usual design, the number of parts of the gun and more complex and lengthy cleaning of the gun compared to guns without gas outlet. With long shooting ranges in the shooting range, several hundred shots each, the brush gets tired of continuously squeezing the handle (if you release the key, the gun automatically rises to the fuse)

                He was armed with the police of Germany and the United States. I did not write about other countries.
                1. gross kaput
                  gross kaput 12 August 2014 17: 35
                  0
                  Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
                  by venting means gas venting.

                  Well, as it were, in Russia, the basic weapon concepts have long been established, and the term "gas automatic equipment" refers to weapons where the gas outlet is the leading link of automation ensuring the operation of all other mechanisms. And those structures where the effect of gases is an auxiliary function in Russia is usually called according to the principle of automation that plays a leading role, in this case systems with a free or with a semi-free shutter with gas braking. At the end of the war, several of them appeared in Germany - the Barnitzke pistol and carbine and the Horn machine gun.
                  Well, if you follow your logic, then many machine guns, including Maxim and MG34, can be called "gas-operated" there, after all, gases play a role in automation - since they are "diverted" into the muzzles and increase the recoil force of the barrel.
                  Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
                  the reliability of the fully automatic fuse is higher than that of any other pistol equipped with automatic fuses

                  There is no automatic fuse, but there is a sear located on the platoon lever, when the squeeze lever is squeezed, the searer pulls the drummer back when the trigger is pressed, the sear drops and the drummer breaks, when the handle is released, the lever together with the sear and the drummer returns to the intermediate half-position.
                  This video is in the topic, will help you understand how the USM R7
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D2TIZ1bXIk
                  1. Major_Vortex
                    Major_Vortex 12 August 2014 21: 25
                    0
                    Quote: gross kaput
                    Well, as it were, in Russia, the basic weapon concepts have long been established, and the term "gas automatic equipment" refers to weapons where the gas outlet is the leading link of automation ensuring the operation of all other mechanisms.


                    How did you define the "leading link" in the work of automation? In any case, the recoil energy of the cartridge when fired is used in the work of automation and nothing more. The gas outlet only activates the mechanism of "unlocking" the shutter or slowing down its opening, in the case of a semi-free shutter.
                    Is there a gas outlet, the energy of the gases flowing out through this gas outlet is used in the operation of the automation, but there is no "gas outlet automation"? Not entirely logical laughing

                    What you call "not a fuse" is just a fuse. There were no other fuses in the basic pistol. This was precisely the idea of ​​the developers, so that the pistol was brought into a fully firing position by simply gripping the pistol grip with a hand - no unnecessary movements: quickly and efficiently.

                    Heckler & Koch returned to the shock-mounted trigger system in the VP 9 model:



                    In addition to the P7 caliber 9mmX19, another pistol model was produced, having a .40S & W caliber, with a magazine for 10 rounds.

                    All models of the gun had a low fixed barrel, which positively affected the accuracy and accuracy of fire. Plus, lightning fast bringing it into full combat position by simply pulling it out of its holster.
  3. bazilio
    bazilio 11 August 2014 11: 57
    +4
    The article is interesting, thanks to the author.

    The pistol is interesting, of unusual design, but still it is a "toy" for men. I don't see any practical use for this barrel. Combat use can be immediately discarded, hunting is an amateur. besides, who to hunt with such a barrel? for medium and large game? so it’s better which carbine to take. For sports, I don’t know. So it's a purely entertainment barrel.
    1. Artyom
      Artyom 11 August 2014 14: 03
      +3
      The only reason it could be acquired is as a weapon of second chance, when hunting dangerous animals, when the main weapon fails, everything is better than a knife!
  4. corporal
    corporal 11 August 2014 12: 16
    +1
    The idea of ​​creating a gas vent pistol is the respect of the developer. That it turned out only an expensive toy for fans to shoot ... request
  5. Bongo
    Bongo 11 August 2014 12: 29
    +4
    In the early 80s, a very rare then book by the famous weapons historian A.B. Beetle "Pistols and Revolvers". Even then, I was amazed at the power of this pistol. If I am not mistaken in the book it was called "Automag".
    The film with C. Bronson where this weapon appears looked much later.
    Charles Bronson (Buchinsky) himself has Russian roots. During the war he served in aviation as a gunner on the B-29.
    1. Mister X
      11 August 2014 19: 33
      +4
      Quote: Bongo
      If I am not mistaken in the book it was called "Automag".

      AMT (Arcadia Machine & Tool) AutoMag is another weapon that works on a different principle.
      It appeared earlier than Wildey and was developed by another American: Harry Sanford.



      The AutoMag I was powered by the .44AMP cartridges created on the basis of the shortened cartridge case of the .308 Winchester (7.62x51) and .357AMP.
      The .357АМР cartridge was a sleeve for the .44АМР cartridge, pereobzhatuya under a bullet caliber 9mm
      Later there were other versions:
      AMT AutoMag II - chambered for .22 Magnum;
      AMT AutoMag III - chambered for .30 Carbine from M1 carbine from the time of the 2 world war;
      AMT AutoMag IV - chambered for. 45 Winchester Magnum;
      AMT AutoMag V - chambered for .50 Action Express Magnum.
      1. Bongo
        Bongo 12 August 2014 13: 37
        +3
        Quote: Mister X
        AMT (Arcadia Machine & Tool) AutoMag is another weapon that works on a different principle.

        Yes, Michael, most likely it is. But these two "trunks" are similar both in appearance and in characteristics.
  6. Mooh
    Mooh 11 August 2014 12: 32
    +2
    Combat use can be immediately discarded

    UAV shooting? wassat
    1. Peacemaker
      Peacemaker 12 August 2014 12: 08
      0
      Low-flying hippopotamus shooting wink
  7. Major_Vortex
    Major_Vortex 11 August 2014 13: 32
    +2
    Pistols with automatic gas vents are overly complex and, therefore, not sufficiently reliable in operation. An example of such an unsuccessful design is the Israeli pistol "Eagle" ("Desert Eagle"), which never gained much popularity due to the "generic diseases" of this type of automation.

    Such a weapon will not go beyond a Hollywood movie and private collections.

    The genius of weapons designer John Moses Browning does not allow many engineers to sleep peacefully:
    1. barmaley
      barmaley 11 August 2014 19: 29
      +1
      Desert Eagle - American, and in Israel it was only produced.
      1. Major_Vortex
        Major_Vortex 11 August 2014 20: 58
        0
        The pistol was patented by American Bernard S. White of Magnum Research. And the final refinement of the gun and its production was carried out by the Israeli company IMI.
  8. gross kaput
    gross kaput 11 August 2014 18: 31
    0
    Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
    Pistols with gas exhaust automation are excessively complex and therefore not reliable enough in operation.

    Well, don’t put all the eggs in one basket, the gas outlet is selected only because of the heavy-duty cartridge under which the traditional scheme pistol cannot be made (the only attempt is the LAR Grizzly - based on 1911, so it really is extremely unsuccessful because of which only a few years, and the company itself for twenty years only produces spare parts for previously sold not a large number of these pistols - so appreciate the reliability). The cartridge itself, due to excessive power, was initially not suitable as a combat / service / civilian and was designed for all kinds of entertainments from hunting to firing at refrigerators, and accordingly pistols / revolvers for such cartridges are created exclusively for entertaining babaching.
    1. Major_Vortex
      Major_Vortex 11 August 2014 20: 40
      +1
      If you do not pervert with ammunition, then under the native cartridge of .45ACP caliber (which is not a little at all), with a well-established production, the Browning gun works wonders:



      And this is a normal, combat, Colt 1911, .45ACP caliber, which is available for 10 and 14-charge stores.
  9. Free wind
    Free wind 11 August 2014 18: 32
    0
    Cool gun. but in this segment, and ours are good. Beautiful weapon. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  10. Mama_Cholli
    Mama_Cholli 11 August 2014 18: 47
    0
    Why are they striving to make pistols monstrous in size, weight and recoil?
    In a real city battle, will he really prevail over the Yarygin or the Beret 92?
    1. lexx2038
      lexx2038 12 August 2014 21: 30
      0
      Quote: Mama_Cholli
      Why are they striving to make pistols monstrous in size, weight and recoil?
      In a real city battle, will he really prevail over the Yarygin or the Beret 92?

      That there was an illusion as if you had a knee fellow
  11. uzer 13
    uzer 13 11 August 2014 20: 07
    0
    The pistol is made in the highest quality category, starting with the selection of metal and ending with the execution. The design of the gas unit is successful and original. It is certainly not cheap, but it’s not a mass-consumption weapon. For Russian conditions, such cartridges are not quite suitable, since nobody wants to buy such a weapon of us does not shine. Ring pistons are widely used in hunting weapons, they did not complain about reliability, they easily withstand 50 thousand shots. In the photo, the gas piston of the MP-153 rifle. The cylinder itself is mounted motionless on the barrel, has spring gas marketing regulator.
    1. ramsi
      ramsi 11 August 2014 21: 52
      0
      annular pistons, maybe nothing, but five "punctures" in the barrel ... What is their diameter ?!
  12. gross kaput
    gross kaput 11 August 2014 22: 30
    0
    Quote: Mama_Cholli
    In a real city battle, will he really prevail over the Yarygin or the Beret 92?

    Here everyone writes posts without reading other people's previous?
    Both the pistol and the cartridge are NOT INTENDED for "urban combat" they were created purely for ENTERTAINMENT ie. hunting and shooting all kinds of trash like old refrigerators and televisions.
    1. Massik
      Massik 12 August 2014 18: 01
      0
      "From behind there was a rumble of glass blown out by the muzzle of something solid ..." laughing In the forest with pathological fear they will encounter a bear, to take it quite reasonably)