The changing world of artillery (Part 2)

Russian models. Russian self-propelled tracked systems are currently at a disadvantage due to the decline in global interest in 152-mm caliber, whose ballistic characteristics are significantly inferior to the latest 155-mm armament. Despite this, a lot of C219 Msta-S and 2C5 Hyacinth-S cars remain in service with many countries and can now benefit from the appearance of guided projectiles. Modified versions are available with 155-mm / 45 caliber implements (2C19M) or 155-mm / 52 caliber, but orders are not reported.

The changing world of artillery (Part 2)

FH77B05 from BAE Systems Bofors is not currently being mass-produced, but is one of two final bidders for a large program of the Indian army

Wheel self-propelled systems

And again, the two main classes differ in combat weight (less or more 25 tons), and also that the calculation can fire while sitting in the cabin (that is, protected by armor) or must dismount to work with the system.

Models of machines weighing more than 25 tons, which, as already noted, are increasingly directly competing, at least with lower-end track systems, include:

ZTS ZUZANA (Czech Republic). ZUZANA is a modified 155-mm version of the 152-mm DANA system, which by the time of its appearance at the end of 70-s, was the first artillery system in the world on a wheeled chassis (Tatra 815 8XXNNX high-performance truck). ZUZANA was supplied to Slovakia (it became the first former Warsaw Pact country to adopt the 8-mm self-propelled system) and to Cyprus in the version with an 155-mm / 155 caliber and a semi-automatic loader. Since then, this option has been replaced in the company's catalog with a more advanced model with an 45 caliber cannon and an automatic loader.

Denel G6 (South Africa). G6 was the first in the world system on a wheeled chassis and with a combat weight of 47 tons remains the heaviest. The entire 145 system was manufactured for three countries (43 for South Africa, 78 for the UAE and 24 for Oman) in the original version with an 45 caliber gun. A new version with a 52 barrel caliber (G6-52) is being released; The basic version with the 23 liter combustion chamber has a maximum range of 53 km. In the Extended Range variant (extended range) with a 25-liter camera, the range reaches 67 km with VLAP ammunition.

Nexter recently introduced an improved version of the Mk2 with the well-known 105-mm LG1 gun.

Coalition-SV (modified 2C19M Msta-C) was an intriguing Russian concept with a very high rate of fire (15 - 18 shots / min). It is achieved through a double-barrel configuration, automatic loader and 50 rounds of ammunition. The prototype was shown to the political and military leadership in 2007, but the program appears to have been stopped

BAE Systems Bofors ARCHER (Sweden). ARCHER is an articulated vehicle with a combat mass of 30 tons, the mass of an artillery module 13,1 tons. The gun is an elongated version (52 caliber) of the FH77B towed howitzer, mounted on a Volvo A30D 6xXNNX truck chassis.

The ARCHER has a sophisticated automatic loader with 20 ready shots that can be shot out in 2,5 minutes, but unlike the ZUZANA or G6, the howitzer does not have a turret turning on 360 °. On the other hand, it has an important advantage - fully controlled from the armored cab. Calculation of 4 person (2 person can serve in a critical situation). Working outside is only needed when replenishing the ammo on the 20 shots.

The ARCHER is currently in mass production for the Swedish and Norwegian armies, which ordered the 24 system.

SCG NORA B52 (Serbia). NORA B52 is a self-propelled system with 155 ton weight, including ammunition for 52 shots, mounted on an 31-mm / 36 cargo platform. It is offered either on the Serbian FAP 2882 8x8 chassis (Mercedes license) or on the Russian KAMAZ 63501. The newest version of the K1 has a fully automatic ammunition supply system, which allows for the rate of fire of 6 shots / min. Another feature is the double armored cockpit to protect the crew on the march and during firing. The gun, apparently of its own design, fires all types of NATO ammunition and has a maximum range over 42 km when firing a projectile with a ERFB / BB bottom gas generator.

It is reported that NORA B52 will go into service with the Serbian army, but it is not included in the latest official lists. 36 systems were sold to Myanmar, and another recent order provides for the supply of 20 systems for Kenya.

The model range of light (less than 25 tons) wheeled self-propelled systems has steadily expanded in the past few years, although only two actually received the status of a production model.

Nexter CAESAR (France). Howitzer, defining the trend for a whole category of artillery systems mounted on a truck. CAESAR has an 155-mm / 52 feces gun and a ground mass of 15,8 tons (including 3 tons of recoil masses), the combat weight is 17,7 tons, so it can be transported by the C-130 transport. CAESAR is a so-called “integrated” self-propelled system, that is, carries a gun, 18 rounds of ammunition and an SLA / command and control system (ATLAS in the version for the French army) on the same chassis. The calculation of the 5 man is placed in a secure cabin while driving, but the gun is usually serviced outside.

The general order book includes 72 systems for France to replace the TRF155 towed howitzers 1 (deliveries completed), six for Thailand (plus the option for 12 - 18 units) and 80 - 100 units for the National Guard of Saudi Arabia (deliveries).

Norinco SH1 (China). The system is shown in 2007 year and is designed specifically for the export market. SH1 is a caliber 155-mm / 52 cannon on the chassis of a 6x6 truck. With a 22 T combat weight, including ammunition for 20 shots, the SH1 has a 5 man calculation, which is placed in a protected cabin during movement. The gun is described as capable of firing any NATO-standard munitions, as well as an ERFB-HE with a bottom gas generator or rockets plus an 155-mm version of the Krasnopol laser-guided projectile. It is reported that approximately 90 SH1 howitzers are in service in Pakistan.

Other truck mounted and currently available howitzers on the market include Soltam ATMOS (Israel), Norinco SH2 (China) and Singapore Technologies LWSPH (Singapore). None of them has yet reached a commercial breakthrough, however, their characteristics and capabilities are subject to an ongoing process of change, as manufacturers are constantly striving to make them more attractive.

Samsung's K9 THUNDER is mass-produced for the South Korean army, while the T155 FIRTINA derivative is supplied to the Turkish army

BONUS from BAE Systems Bofors and Nexter is an intelligent 155-mm projectile designed to destroy armored vehicles. In its case there are two submarines with sensor fuses, it also has a gas generator, which increases the range to 35 km. As soon as the submarines are released above the target area, everyone searches and identifies targets in a circle with an 200 diameter, processes the image received from IR sensors operating at several frequencies, and then compares the results with data from a laser radar (LADAR). The target profile is determined and then it is compared with the data received from IR sensors, thus the combat targets can be separated from the false ones. After detecting and identifying a target inside the zone, it is destroyed by an EFP (Explosively Formed Penetrator) shock warhead type

Towed artillery

The list of deficiencies attributed to towed howitzers is quite long. They need too much time to occupy and leave the position and, thus, they are hardly suitable for the “shot and run” tactics on which modern artillery doctrines are based on avoiding counter-battery fire. They have very bad tactical mobility on rough terrain. The significant total length of the towed + towed howitzer impairs traffic on winding roads or in urban areas. And they have no protection for their calculation.

Despite this, and despite increasing competition from the wheeled SG, claims that the towed artillery is dying or has already died are in fact slightly premature. Many users are still interested in the positive qualities of towed howitzers: stability and survivability in all combat conditions, ease of operation, the most modest logistical needs and last but not least, the cost of procurement and deployment. In addition, artillery tugs are mostly standard military trucks that can also be used for other purposes when they do not need to do their direct work. There is no need to say that this is not at all the case with artillery systems mounted on trucks. In addition, in operational terms, light towed howitzers remain indispensable in certain geographical conditions and / or for some units, as has been clearly demonstrated in Afghanistan.

Approximately 2 / 3 of the world artillery fleet is represented by towed models, including around 11000 155-mm howitzers. And at present, a certain number of programs are being carried out to modernize or replace existing samples. New developments focused on howitzer 52 or 45 caliber with high performance on the one hand and so-called ultralight models on the other. Currently active 155-mm howitzers programs include:

BAE Systems Bofors FH 77B05 L52 (Sweden). The FH 77B05 L52 (NATO standard caliber 52 barrel) is a further development of the successful FH 77B02 L39 model. A longer barrel and a larger chamber leads to an increase in the range of more than 40 km. The howitzer uses modular and capus charges, from which you can shoot intelligent ammunition of a new generation. The onboard ballistic computer allows you to calculate firing data, perform automatic guidance and fire control, automatic ammunition data and weather data. FH 77BO5 L52 has its own ground navigation system, eliminating the need for observation and sight, which reduces operating costs.

The FH 77B05 L52 is currently not in service and has not been ordered by any country, but it is one of two contenders for a large Indian order for the purchase of 400 units and further local production of 1180 more systems. The FH 77B05 L52 is being offered for India by the new Defense Land Systems India, a joint venture between BAE Systems and Mahindra & Mahindra.

Norinco PLL01 (China). Based on the earlier GHN-45 model (caliber 45 barrel), the PLL01 was manufactured by the first batch of 54 systems in number to re-equip the Chinese army artillery regiment. It is sold for export with or without the APU (12 tons) or in a lightweight version of the GM-9,8.

NIKE T155 PANTER. Developed in Turkey with some support from the Singapore company STK, the T155 PANTER is mass-produced for the Turkish army with the aim of gradually replacing the old M114. Reportedly, final demand is 138 units, but production has already exceeded 225 units. The first export order from Pakistan for the supply of PANTER 12 howitzers was also received.

PANTER is the heaviest (14 tons) and the longest (11,6 m in towed position) howitzer 155-mm / 52 caliber among modern models. It is also arguably one of the fastest due to its APU with an 160 horsepower, which allows it to reach speeds of 18 km / h. She has a reduced calculation of 5 people, she can shoot 3 shots in 15 seconds.

Soltam ATHOS (Israel). Developed as a private program and not having orders announced today, ATHOS is unique in that it is the only modern towed howitzer with 39, 45 or 52 barrels of caliber. Barrel replacement requires minimal modification. It is also offered with or without the APU. It is also the only 155-mm towed howitzer that has a 180 ° shelling sector horizontally compared to a conventional 60 - 70 ° sector.

STK FH2000 (Singapore). FH2000 developed by Singapore Technologies Kinetics for the Singapore Army based on the previous model FH88 155-mm / 39 caliber, it is the first towed howitzer 155-mm / 52 caliber, entered service in the world (1993). She has a calculation 8 man, diesel APU power HPN 75 allows you to move independently at a speed of 10 km / h. The howitzer can shoot at a maximum range of 42 km using extended range ammunition. The shutter mechanism is semi-automatic, that is, the shutter opens automatically during roll-up. Electronically driven, hydraulically driven, a pulse rammer sends a round to the chamber with a high level of consistency.

Production for the local market seems to have been completed; manufactured over 50 systems. Several FH2000 were sold to Indonesia. The howitzer competes with the FH77 B05 L52 under the Indian program.

KMW / GDELS DONAR combines an AGM turret with a caliber 155-mm / 52 turret on a modified ASCOD chassis. Intelligent automation solutions enable DONAR to have two people

M982 EXCALIBUR guided missile "preparing" for a shot

GDSBS SIAC (Spain). The newest howitzer 155-mm / 52 caliber production General Dynamics Santa Barbara Systemas has such improvements as the APU and semi-automatic loading mechanism, allowing you to have a maximum rate of 10 shots / min against 4 – 6 shots / min from other systems in this class and conduct continuous fire from 60 shots for 30 minutes. The howitzer is positioned in 120 seconds and is ready to fire in 90 seconds. SIAC is in service in Spain and Colombia, and mass production continues.

The new ultralight class (HLW) includes two models:

BAE Systems M777A1 / M777A2 (United Kingdom / United States). Howitzer M777A1 / A2 155-mm / 39 caliber is in service and in mass production for the US Army (273 ordered) and Marine Corps (380 ordered), as well as Canada (37) and Australia (57).

The M777 is the world's first artillery system in which titanium and aluminum alloys are widely used. With a mass of less than 10000 pounds (4220 kg), this is the lightest 155-mm howitzer in the world, i.e. a field gun whose weight is half the size of a conventional 155-mm system. Low weight allows you to quickly deploy M777 in any theater, including helicopters. The gun is currently being deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq, it will also be supplied with a new M982 EXCALIBUR guided munition developed by Raytheon and BAE Systems, it has a maximum range of 40 km and an accuracy of 10 meters. The calculation for M777 consists of 5 man, the howitzer has a maximum rate of fire of 5 shots / min.

STK SLWH PEGASUS (Singapore). PEGAGUS can be described as an intriguing "semi-self-propelled" system due to the presence of an 21 kW motor, which allows the gun to move independently at a speed of 12 km / h. The total weight of 5,4 tons is easily compatible with transportation on the suspension of a cargo helicopter. The system has a calculation of 6 - 8 man, 3 shots are shot in 24 seconds. PEGASUS 54 systems are in service with the Singapore Army.

The Norinco SH155 caliber 52-m / 1 system installed on the truck is firing direct fire in the photo. Is in service with Pakistan

Serbian NORA B52 is shown in the photo. This is the newest version with front and rear armored cabs, they give protection to the crew during movement and shooting. NORA B52 won two import orders before entering into service with its own army

Appearance of MRSI

Until the recent past (and this situation persists in many countries), artillery systems could rely mainly on high-explosive or cluster projectiles to deliver impact to a target, with only one exception to the sadly unreliable laser-guided projectiles, for example COPPERHEAD. Thus, the final effectiveness of artillery fire depended, and to a very large extent still depends, on such factors as the quality of the gun, the internal and external characteristics of the munition and its destructive power, the training and professionalism of the artillery crew and advanced observers, as well as speed and efficiency. the entire process of transferring and calculating data for firing.

Taking into account the multiple influence of the above factors, the organization and maintenance of effective artillery fire was still (relatively) an easy task for fixed / slow moving or unarmored targets, but became almost impossible for fast moving, well armored, pinpoint targets, such as MBT, especially when impossibility of carrying out the adjustment. As a result, shooting guidelines determined, for example, the need to shoot at least 30 155-mm projectiles to cover an 100 x 100 square, which contains three or four heavy armored vehicles.

The above problems are currently worsening due to political and operational implications. On the one hand, the ban on cluster munitions eliminates virtually what could be the main tool for correcting the lack of accuracy inherent in artillery fire in the final segment of the trajectory, that is, a massive strike on the target area. On the other hand, the increasing deployment of artillery weapons in asymmetric and counterinsurgency scenarios makes it extremely necessary to reduce indirect losses to a minimum. Fortunately, a number of technological developments come to the rescue.

First of all, the appearance of the 155-mm / 52 cal configuration of the NATO standard with a 23 liter chamber is an optimal compromise between mass and size on the one hand and ballistic characteristics on the other. Automatic or semi-automatic loading systems allow you to shoot 3 shots in less than 20 seconds and to fire 6 shots / min for several minutes.

Secondly, and also importantly, a new generation of intelligent munitions is being introduced with submarines, controlled on the final trajectory, or having sensory fuses (remote) or at least the ability to correct the trajectory. Programs such as SMArt, BONUS, EXCALIBUR, Krasnopol, Kitolov 2 or SPACIDO now provide the possibility of destroying armored vehicles in motion, as well as destroying fast-moving targets or threats in urban environments without destroying everything around them.

At the same time, GPS-based ground navigation systems are becoming widespread along with command and control devices and SLA, allowing artillery to take up their positions for firing much faster and then fire accurately. Especially important in this regard is the use of control systems to automatically transfer target coordinates to artillery command posts and then transfer orders to open fire on individual guns so that the latter already have all the necessary information about the target and number of projectiles even before taking the prescribed positions for firing. This actually transforms each individual artillery system into an almost autonomous one and allows you to hit a target from the first shots without the need to shoot sighting ammunition.

The end result of all of the above is the concept of MRSI (Multiple Rounds Simultaneous Impact - the simultaneous impact of several projectiles. The angle of inclination of the barrel changes and all projectiles fired at a certain time interval arrive at the target simultaneously). Round the clock, in any weather, without zeroing in order to maximize the surprise of the blow.

The capabilities of MRSI imply a very high rate of fire (in fact, the most attainable), as well as quick means for accurately calculating small changes in the propelling charge and angle of vertical guidance for shooting each subsequent projectile along a different trajectory. Practically, and also depending on the type of gun and the ammunition used, nowadays you can reach a MRSI salvo from three to six rounds at a range of 15 - 35 km. The accuracy at the end section varies from 95 meters to 15 km and 275 meters to 30 km for a standard high-explosive fragmentation shot, but improves dramatically (less than 10 meters) using new generation intelligent ammunition.

155-mm artillery with sensor fuses destroys vehicles in motion

Manufactured and marketed by GIWS (a joint venture of Rheinmetall AG and Diehl Group), the 155-mm SMArt 155 artillery shell is specifically designed to disrupt armor attacks.

SMArt 155 means Sensor-fused Munition for Artillery, Caliber 155mm (artillery ammunition with a touch (non-contact) fuse, caliber 155 mm). This is a reliable, highly effective artillery shell of the "shot and forgot" category. Each projectile has two autonomous, intelligent submunitions with high performance. They are capable of neutralizing fixed and moving armored vehicles, including Tanks in any environment and in any weather. SMArt 155 can stop the onset of armored vehicles with minimal ammunition consumption and with very high accuracy even at long ranges of destruction. The risk of indirect loss is minimized.

The projectile has a thin-walled casing in order to obtain the maximum volume for two sub-shells. The combination of multi-mode sensors with a projectile type shock core (or EFP) makes these submarines extremely effective. Excellent target definition and falsifying, a large coverage area, high probability of hitting and outstanding warhead characteristics guarantee maximum mortality and destruction on the ground, that is, effective neutralization of armored vehicles.

Fire missions can be completed with just a few shots in a very short period of time. This allows you to use the tactics of "fired and drove away", significantly reducing the effectiveness of the enemy's counterbattery fire, a critical factor in protecting their forces.

Excessive self-destruction is a key feature of the SMArt projectile, whose creators paid particular attention to avoiding the risk of unexploded ordnance. If the target is not found in the search area, two redundant and independent mechanisms consisting of strong and simple components guarantee that the projectile will reliably “self-destruct”, which allows its troops to move in the zone with greater confidence. There is a goal, no target, the combat unit of the sub-order suspended by parachute is designed so that it is undermined as soon as the height above the ground becomes less than 20 meters. If this function does not work and the sub-order falls unscathed, the warhead automatically detonates as soon as the voltage from the battery drops below a certain level. This mode also closes possible malfunctions of sensors and electronics.

GIWS developed a projectile at the end of the Cold War so that the Bundeswehr could counter the threat of armored vehicles of the Warsaw Pact countries, which led to an economically beneficial form of deterrence.

Today, the armies of Germany, Switzerland, Greece and Australia are armed with SMArt 155. The SMArt projectile is constantly being upgraded, it has successfully proved itself in 26 shooting tests, confirming its extreme reliability.

Materials used:
Military Technology
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  1. +16
    30 July 2014 09: 50
    Remember that? Someone laid out.
    1. +12
      30 July 2014 11: 49
      And do not remember this?)))))
      1. Flint
        30 July 2014 19: 46
        Bofors 155 BONUS

        Smart 155
        1. Flint
          30 July 2014 20: 48
          Warhead Test 155 BONUS
          Watch from 1: 57
          1. +1
            30 July 2014 21: 52
            This is all, of course, cool and informative. But ... Read about the same "Bonus". By 2005, the Mk II version was supposed to appear, which should have been equipped not with a simple IR sensor and a laser rangefinder, as the first version, but with a multispectral sensor and lidar, which could not only detect targets, but also recognize them by comparing the data obtained from a laser locator, with those stored in memory.

            Why didn’t this go to the troops? Due to the extremely narrow specialization of such ammunition.
            1. Flint
              30 July 2014 22: 11
              Quote: Spade
              Why is this did not go to the troops? Due to the extremely narrow specialization of such ammunition.

              Today, the armies of Germany, Switzerland, Greece and Australia are armed with SMArt 155. The SMArt projectile is constantly being upgraded, it has successfully proved itself in 26 shooting tests, confirming its extreme reliability.

              BLU-108 SFW (used in Iraq)
              1. 0
                30 July 2014 23: 12
                I'm talking about much more advanced than "Smart" "Bonus 2". They wanted, wanted and re-wanted.
    2. crowley
      30 July 2014 22: 01
      would make our self-propelled guns)) 200 pieces) we would kill everyone and the USA and NATO and the EU and without nuclear weapons everyone would be afraid of us))))
    3. Codename49
      31 July 2014 07: 39
      Everything in order to kill a man and nothing to help him !!!!!!!!!!!!!
  2. +3
    30 July 2014 09: 54
    Those. are we behind the generation now? And this despite the fact that Russian and Soviet artillery was the best in the world, which even German generals recognized in the Second World War.
    Moreover, if in aviation and BTT, something else is heard in terms of development, then in artillery it is generally deaf.
    1. +3
      30 July 2014 11: 00
      Quote: qwert
      Those. are we behind the generation now?

      Well it is more like Yes. If the range is still not going where, it’s not so scary, then with accuracy we lag far behind. Laser backlighting is the level of the end of the last century. The future is with sets of attachments that turn a conventional projectile into an adjustable one, such as


      Cheap and cheerful.
      1. +1
        30 July 2014 18: 14
        We lag behind with accuracy - is this a measure of accuracy?
        1. +15
          30 July 2014 19: 19
          Rather, a measure of technological lag. Not because there is no development, because the troops do not have what is ready for production and delivery to the troops or can be prepared as soon as possible.

          Well, for example, I have in stock an old, like mammoth waste, ML-20 howitzer gun model 1937. By the way, still standing in service. My task is to shoot it for sure.

          Do you think I will require another gun? No. And I do not need cool guided and adjustable ammunition, although they can solve this problem quite cheaply. Artillery is primarily what is around the guns, and not they themselves.

          I need intelligence tools that give accurate coordinates in real time (here you can write a whole article, which ones)
          I need precise means of topographic reference and orientation on each gun
          I need an artillery ballistic station on every gun
          I need electronic fuses and remote input on every gun
          I need a computer on each gun, calculating, introducing corrections and monitoring the work of the gunner
          I need a good weather station that provides real-time accurate data.
          Well, and even the little things ... For example, a chip on each charge and on every projectile, informing computers of the deviation of their characteristics from the table, in modern conditions this is absolutely doable.

          And I, with my old weapon, will have precision at the highest modern level.
          1. +3
            30 July 2014 22: 18
            As an artilleryman, I strongly support it. But this is about "hitting the first shot." With the prompt adjustment of shooting, this can be corrected. It is clear that if the enemy can put the projectile faster and directly into the crown, this is a clear advantage. Only at the test sites - everything is great with them. And in real combat? When did they actually participate in the counter-battery? When not only you, but also you. And fast.
            1. +1
              30 July 2014 23: 08
              I just wrote about accuracy. And when it comes to combat use, especially when confronted with an enemy that is commensurate with our tech. Opportunities - there are already new samples needed. With the ML-20 you can run into a robust design - transfer time is up to 10 minutes
            2. 0
              30 July 2014 23: 21
              The changes in the technical level of the guns and the views of the command on the use of ground artillery are evidenced by the characteristics that are paid attention primarily when designing and comparing artillery equipment. The list of performance characteristics in the last century included: mass, maximum firing range, speed on the highway and off-road conditions, range, portable ammunition, calculation. In the last 10-15 years, attention has been increasing to such characteristics as the degree of automation; time of transfer from traveling to combat and vice versa; barrel survivability; distance covered from the spot in the first minute of movement; rate of fire. This indicates that the role of the time spent at the firing position is increasing: the longer the gun is at the firing position (OP), the greater the likelihood of its destruction by enemy means.

              "Opportunities, advantages and disadvantages of a pseudo-salvo of an artillery gun" V. Rusakov
          2. +2
            30 July 2014 22: 21
            Well, almost all the provisions of article 13 listed good
            But seriously, I agree with you. We are lagging behind the automation systems of CCM. Our artillery is at a decent level.
            1. 0
              30 July 2014 23: 00
              I haven't written everything yet, I was just too lazy. Why do we still have “flying away” battery thermometers in our arsenal, which must be kept in charge, and be afraid that some obizyan will not charge and shoot it in the direction of the target?
              There are a bunch of thermometers that determine the temperature and more precisely, and instantly, and also remotely.

              Our reactivists still use the wind gun, and I somehow read a brochure on the Chinese MLRS in each meteorological radar battery. With high probability, boiled over from Soviet-Russian civilian samples.

              Well and so on ... In fact, there is still, it remains only to put in the troops.
              1. +2
                31 July 2014 04: 14
                As for development, Russia is not far behind. Vishnevsky's high-precision ammunition has structural differences from Western developments. And they have an advantage over competitors, which the Americans admitted. They offered 200 million, but the Russian Federation refused. It can offset a miss of 200 meters per second. Daredevil and Centimeter. There are analogues to Western ammunition - these are the Tula men under the leadership of Shipunov — Krasnopol, Kitolov and Gran.
                It remains only to massively put in the troops. Now, I think, because of the events in Ukraine, it will come to the highest ranks that it’s better to be clever than shoot a sled car and sometimes uselessly. hi
              2. 0
                31 July 2014 09: 57
                Even at the school, we were told "We have everything, but everything is in stock in case of war."
  3. AX
    30 July 2014 10: 23
    But what about the principle: - "The simpler the better"?
    1. +2
      30 July 2014 11: 09
      Quote: AX
      But what about the principle: - "The simpler the better"?

      When the question of accuracy arises, then you have to fork out. By the middle of the 20th century, the accuracy of artillery approached its limit, improved quality of barrel processing, the use of "smart" ballistic computers that take into account air temperature, wind, barrel temperature, etc. did not give a significant increase in shooting accuracy. The first step was in the use of corrected projectiles aimed at the reflected laser radiation. It was already not very cheap then. The projectile itself was expensive, plus the need to throw spotters with laser illumination equipment behind enemy lines ... The Americans took the next step, the projectile with GPS correction turned out to be incredibly expensive too ... Now they use attachments that correct a conventional projectile using GPS, which is much cheaper, the best option.
      1. +1
        30 July 2014 12: 43
        By GPS \ glonas is not an option against even a slightly technically advanced army
        1. 0
          30 July 2014 16: 36
          Quote: viktorR
          By GPS \ glonas is not an option against even a slightly technically advanced army

          Your account has been terminated.
          AND? Where are the arguments? Or, again, the notorious "bucket of nuts" as an effective means against a constellation of satellites? What launch pad is Proton with buckets on?
          1. 0
            31 July 2014 00: 23
            Did you hear something about RTR and EW? Even on drones, it’s not very possible to protect against electronic warfare with different directional antennas, but here is the projectile, weight + dimensions + prohibitive overloads. What nuts are what protons, you wouldn't be so nervous, okay? And then there’s how many question marks, the hand trembled wink ?
  4. 0
    30 July 2014 10: 41
    Cheap enemy of the good, but in public procurement and defense order they prefer the first
    1. ICT
      30 July 2014 12: 52
      Quote: saag
      Cheap enemy of the good

      best the enemy of the good
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. snowman
    30 July 2014 11: 05
    It is certainly good that everything is now being induced by itself, but what about the interference and the troops of the EW?
    And generally speaking what is he pointing at? The sound of the engine, radio signals or heat?
    1. +2
      30 July 2014 11: 12
      Quote: snowman
      It is certainly good that everything is now being induced by itself, but what about the interference and the troops of the EW?

      Saturate ALL units with electronic warfare equipment is simply unrealistic. Yes, and it is not known whether it is able to suppress the GPS signal.
      Quote: snowman
      And what is he pointing at? The sound of the engine, radio signals or heat?

      The coordinates of the target and ...
      1. anomalocaris
        3 August 2014 09: 36
        ... the GPS signal is blocked in a certain area. The technologies are developed and, most likely, tested in combat conditions (remember the mistakes of the Tomahawks in Serbia and, especially in Iraq).
  7. +1
    30 July 2014 11: 05
    "Soltam ATHOS (Israel). Developed as a private program and does not have
    orders announced today "///

    It was possible (for the first time) to sell a couple of dozen to the Philippines. Big indian
    ATHOS lost the tender.
    The most annoying thing is that there is not enough money to buy yourself. IDF shoots junk 50-year-old
    Prescription M109.
    1. +1
      30 July 2014 15: 52
      At a range that the IDF usually shoots, there are enough conventional art-correctors. Now, if a new Arab-Israeli war were being prepared, then yes, new opportunities would come in handy.
      1. 0
        30 July 2014 16: 59
        We just have no problems with art-correction: all
        connected to computers, GPS, UAV.
        The problem with the guns themselves. Range unsuccessful., Deterioration,
        shells are so-so. Deviations up to 100 m, even with accurate corrections.
        It's time to throw out the trash and move on to a new generation of artillery.
        1. 0
          30 July 2014 18: 33
          C'mon, a hundred meters on the first shot at the calculated settings-- yes it's 5 points in your pocket.

          Do not require jewelry precision from conventional ammunition, they do not need it. They take the number.
          1. +1
            30 July 2014 18: 46
            We have to be more precise. Now in Gaza one such
            a "crazy" shell exploded in the school yard (empty, note),
            but they gathered dead and wounded from neighboring quarters -
            Now we need to report to the UN: how did it happen? funnel at school.
            1. korjik
              30 July 2014 19: 00
              And what does it bother you a lot?
            2. 0
              30 July 2014 19: 21
              Well, be ... It does not depend much on the guns.
  8. snowman
    30 July 2014 11: 22
    Quote: Nayhas
    The coordinates of the target and ...

    Well, the goal is moving, is it constantly manually correcting? Again, the jam jammers over the alleged zone of fire, so that the satellite does not respond to the projectile.
    1. +1
      30 July 2014 13: 41
      EW capabilities are limited here.
      For some reason, everyone forgets that the control system for these shells is inertial with GPS correction. Even if it is possible to drown out the signal of the satellites along the entire length of the trajectory, which is extremely complicated, this will lead not to a disruption to the guidance, but to a small drop in accuracy. And systems that change the signal also will not help - the equipment compares its data with satellite positioning data, and notices too different results.

      EW is effectively able to deal only with radio fuses.
  9. 0
    30 July 2014 11: 46
    It’s not upsetting the current backlog, as such, but the fact that nothing is being done in terms of new developments. It is not necessary to copy someone else's standard 155/52, you can create your own. But that was at least not worse.
  10. +2
    30 July 2014 11: 52
    Corrected shells are well-guided, self-guided and not guided, too, perfectly all shells have their own niche and, according to the cost criterion, efficiency is more suitable in a particular situation; only one of the types
    1. +1
      30 July 2014 13: 49
      The problem is solvable. Italian-German family of Vulcan projectiles: the main control system is inertial with GPS correction, but at the same time, a semi-active laser seeker ("illumination") or passive IR seeker can be installed on the projectile before firing. So they get a really versatile shell.

      On the approach of the "head" with optical recognition systems, this is generally the most powerful thing will be.
  11. +3
    30 July 2014 15: 40
    All the trouble with our 152 mm artillery is the requirement of the military to shoot shells both at the beginning of the 20th century and with the most modern ones. These two requirements give both short range and low accuracy, all the questions have one answer from the shells to hell! What throw them chtol?
  12. Drturbo
    30 July 2014 16: 36
    with a decrease in global interest in the 152-mm caliber, whose ballistic characteristics are significantly inferior to the latest 155-mm weapons
    - I'm certainly not a specialist in ballistics, but something tells me that the difference of 3 mm does not affect the "piston stroke" ...
  13. +1
    30 July 2014 16: 43
    Russian models. Russian caterpillar self-propelled systems are currently at a disadvantage due to a decrease in global interest in the 152-mm caliber, whose ballistic characteristics are significantly inferior to the latest 155-mm weapons.
    Guided missiles are good when a local operation is carried out against a knowingly weak enemy or a fleeting war. hi
  14. +1
    30 July 2014 16: 49
    Thanks to the author for the second part.
    Warrior wow looked at this question from a practical point of view, the cost of these systems is high even for far from poor countries. How massive can such samples be in the troops?
    Of course, in the case of a joint operation of 20-30 countries against not even a regular army, but insurgents like in Afghanistan, everyone chipped in on a couple of samples and it seems to be normal, but in case of carrying out large-scale actions with the enemy's regular army?
    The ability of the state to massively produce weapons during the war (and the war continues until one of the parties has exhausted its resources) should not be discounted.
    And the fact that we do not have developments in this direction is certainly not happy.
  15. jj74
    30 July 2014 18: 12
    smile That's almost the same. (Shore)
  16. jj74
    30 July 2014 18: 17
    By the way, with a counter-battery bootloader, who is who? Our shore or their self-propelled guns?
  17. +6
    30 July 2014 18: 44
    I read both parts. As a result, I set a minus. I will explain why. The article, as a review, is very weak (if only because the author forgot to mention different standards for measuring the calibers of rifled barrels, which is why some decided that our 152 mm is thinner than others' 155 mm; however, for the same reason, it is more difficult with the barrel length - with equal diameters bore our guns are shorter than the western ones). The author forgot to mention that the "weakness" of 152 mm guns, compared to the American 155 mm with a 52 caliber barrel length, follows from the barrel length, it's too lazy to count, but we need a barrel about 60 caliber in length (after all, I counted slightly more than 53 calibers). The fact is that in our country there are no machines for processing such long barrels (not without reason Russian 155/45 caliber guns). State-owned enterprises, however ...
    Then the author began to describe modern cunning projectiles, the effectiveness of which is very controversial (in a real war, not ATO). Such ammunition is offered as an alternative to rocket weapons, and this is an overkill. The rocket starts with much lower overloads in comparison with the projectile fired from the cannon, its electronic components are in much more comfortable conditions, which is why they have more time to recover after launch and, accordingly, more accurate self-aiming; the complexity of the equipment of the rocket and the projectile is not comparable (I mean the theoretically possible level), the range of correcting the trajectory of the rocket and the guided projectile is also not in favor of the projectiles. The main advantage of barreled artillery is the low cost of a shot, ease of storing the arsenal. Different "calibers" destroy both advantages: the huge cost of the shot, the need for maintenance of the electronics when storing the projectile ...
    Therefore, minus the author. He didn’t even try, despite the announcement of the article,
    analyze the "changing world of artillery". A long and very messy list of systems produced in the West (it is likely that the old one, the dates in the review are often three years old). The author did not fulfill some kind of comparison of the artillery of the West and Russia (TTD was not given at all) ...
    1. +2
      30 July 2014 19: 39
      Quote: uwzek
      The main advantage of barrel artillery is the low cost of a shot

      Given: a target of the "ATGM in a trench" type. For example, the cool "Cornet". To counter it, the German father-in-command needs about 300 shells with a total cost of about $ 8 million. Or one "Zxskalibur" worth 85
      1. anomalocaris
        3 August 2014 09: 50
        Or one shell of a tank gun with an air blast, or the AGS line, or a dozen mines of a battalion mortar, etc.
        Dear Shovels!
        A target of the "ATGM in a trench" type does not apply to the tasks of divisional or even corps artillery. The suppression of such objects is the prerogative of the regular and attached means of a motorized rifle (tank) unit.
      2. anomalocaris
        3 August 2014 10: 34
        300 rounds of 155mm caliber is a target of the "company strongpoint" type ...
    2. 0
      6 August 2014 14: 49
      Yes, it seems you are a master ignoramus. There are no machines for such a length, well, ridiculed. What do you even understand in turning? look and don’t say no when you don’t know something. Yes, but how did the comb shafts do and do with us then? Can they buy abroad (loud laughter)
      1. anomalocaris
        7 August 2014 16: 46
        What is the maximum diameter?
  18. +3
    30 July 2014 23: 51
    Shot price. Compared to the target price. This is the main reason why the cannon artillery remains afloat. And then the designers suffered. More and more expensive guns, ammunition, electronics. Also hunting budget money. How to create massive and cheap artillery systems? It's difficult. It is necessary to think hard. And they won't give much money either. So "bows" appear, very expensive, for development - monstrous money, this money falls on the cost of the system. And instead of a large number of good and reliable cheap artillery systems, we have a few very expensive ones with dubious reliability, plus very expensive ammunition with a limited shelf life. This is good for the fight against the "Papuans", but in a serious war. Such batteries will be given electromagnetic ammunition ... Electronics will be "blind" for a few minutes. During this time, a simple receiver, without extras, with adjustments, will mix this expensive miracle with the ground.
    1. 0
      31 July 2014 00: 07
      Here's how to say it ... Here, for example, we will switch to modular charges (fully automatic loading is impossible without them). On the one hand, the transition itself is expensive. And on the other, subsequently it will result in a reduction in costs. There are no sleeves, modules are thrown just as much as needed, and they do not throw out extra bundles, which, incidentally, cost money.

      Or automation ... The introduction of amendments not from the calculated charts, but directly. That will make it possible to shoot at the smallest possible charge (well, no one expects hydraulic fracturing for all charges, although in theory this is necessary) As a result, an increase in barrel life.

      Well, EMP- from him have long learned to defend themselves. At least in terms of equipment protection. Precision ammunition - yes, protection is hardly possible. I even heard that there is a variant of installing "EMP grenades" on tanks for protection - they just shoot over the tank and blow up.
    2. +1
      31 July 2014 00: 21
      "Such batteries will be used with electromagnetic ammunition" ////

      This is the case if the one who launches this miracle ammunition before
      will not hit with an accurate missile with a seeker or something like that ...
      Dear bells and whistles are not just coming up for exhibitions. Their
      test in small wars, so that there is a proven tactics of application
      in a "serious war," as you put it.
      In order for artillery to hit the square in the traditional way, you need to concentrate
      together a lot of guns. What will attract the attention of the enemy. With all the consequences
      the consequences. The same task can be performed by a single masked
      howitzer with "smart" shells.
  19. 0
    31 July 2014 01: 57
    I think that the designers got carried away with the "bows" because they are disoriented by the declaration about the end of the Cold War and by the fact that no state is seriously investing in the defense industry.
  20. waggish
    2 August 2014 17: 17
    My favorite self-propelled gun Panzerhaubitze 2000!
    1. 0
      6 August 2014 20: 02
      Quote: waggish
      My favorite self-propelled gun Panzerhaubitze 2000!

      what did you ride on it? shot? hit anyone? lol
      if you like aesthetically, write it!
  21. Delovoy
    8 August 2014 20: 14
    help identify
    1. 0
      9 August 2014 19: 56
      similar to T-12 (rapier)

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