"In no case do not perform the second approach"

111
"In no case do not perform the second approach"“Either there the pilots are not able to attack the targets as they should, and leave after completing the mission, or the routes are used the same, or they are awaited by the MANPADS arrows already prepared for the appearance of the aircraft,” these words are the former commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force, Colonel-General Peter Deinekin explains the large losses of the Su-25 attack aircraft by the Ukrainian troops.

Representatives of the Lugansk and Donetsk People's Republics announced the destruction of four Su-25 attack aircraft of the Ukrainian security forces at once in the last two days. The loss of at least two of them - near the settlement Dmitrovka - has already been officially recognized in Kiev.

Amid the general huge losses of the Ukrainian aviation Su-25 stand out especially. According to information on the Aviation Safety Network (ASN) website, which tracks accidents, from July 1 to July 17, four aircraft of this type were destroyed during the fighting, another crashed at the airport of Dnepropetrovsk.

Former Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Air Force, Hero of Russia Colonel-General Pyotr Deynekin, who flew, among other things, on Su-25, told the VIEW newspaper about the features of this aircraft and its use in combat conditions, as well as what could be associated with Ukraine's great losses of such attack aircraft.

VIEW: Peter Stepanovich, how tenacious in battle Su-25?

Peter Deinekin: There is no more armored car in the world. There the pilot and the engine are protected, they are in the “bath” of titanium. And during the war in Afghanistan, the pilots brought planes with holes - where there is no titanium - with a diameter of one and a half meters.

This machine was specially designed to attack ground targets from low altitudes.

VIEW: What, in your opinion, explains the loss of Su-25 Ukrainian military?

PD: Either there the pilots are not capable of attacking targets as they should, leaving after completing the mission, surviving, either they use the same routes, or they are waiting for arrows of MANPADS prepared for the appearance of the planes.

VIEW: How should a trained pilot try to attack a target, seeking to minimize the chance of being hit?

PD: There are a million techniques that should be applied depending on the specific situation, on the target, on the weather, on the terrain, on weaponswhich hangs on pendants. Just do not tell, this is the topic of the whole conference.

But in principle, the pilot studies the target map in advance on a large-scale snapshot so that he knows what to expect and what to attack: either the boiler room, or the headquarters, or the administration.

An attack aircraft comes from an unexpected direction — from the rear, from the side, but by no means from above. He uses the terrain - hills, mountains, some buildings of the type of high-rise buildings - sneaks to the target at a very low altitude, then briefly jumps.

You need to be a great master in firing from a cannon or bombing. If you use a rocket with a laser illumination of the target, then you need to approach the target at a low altitude, then gain the height necessary to irradiate the target with a laser. Well, and then to aim as it should: without jerks, without hesitation, without lapels, dovorot.

After that, you need to immediately move away from the goal, with a big roll and in the direction unexpected for the enemy. You can not even with climb, but with loss.
And in no case do not perform the second call, because you will already have to wait.

VIEW: Do all these rules comply with the Ukrainian pilots?

PD: The diagnosis can not be set. But they attack the same objects. They enter the same target, and the air defense systems already know where they are going to expect a strike, where the attackers will go. They do not continue to fly over the territory of Russia, if they go on targets from the west, but unfold. Therefore, they are above the target for a long time.

The anti-aircraft gunners undergo special accompaniment training, they already know the flight path. Each case must be studied.

VIEW: How difficult is it to knock down the Su-25 from MANPADS?

PD: Very difficult. They are in service with conventional rifle units, but at the same time it is necessary to undergo appropriate training. But they are designed for conscript soldiers.
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111 comments
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  1. AlexandrK
    +110
    25 July 2014 14: 07
    I personally don’t understand why such articles are printed? So that punishers take into account mistakes and can kill more civilians and militias?
    1. +90
      25 July 2014 14: 17
      AlexandrK
      Come on you. What Deinekin said is the alphabet, which is well known, and which could not help teaching in Ukrainian schools - the teachers there must be literate.
      But there is a clear hint about the very well-trained MANPADS operators and the hefty number of complexes, apparently supplied by the militia Allah. :))) In general, such a plague as attacked Ukrainian aircraft in the skies of New Russia, it seems, was not in any war. Not a single one ... compare the number of sorties (ten and a half to two a day) and the number of downed planes and helicopters ... the losses are simply unprecedented.
      Minus is not mine :)))
      1. avt
        +25
        25 July 2014 14: 37
        Quote: smile
        supplied to the militias by Allah. :)))

        Allah Vladimirovich.
        Quote: smile
        Come on you. What Deinekin said is the alphabet, which is well known, and which could not help teaching in Ukrainian schools - the teachers there must be literate.

        Absolutely right! Another thing is that even for the application of these simple truths, it is necessary to practice this all live on the firing range.
        Quote: Predator
        .And with pilots such as take-off and landing, there will be no sense. It was necessary to learn before the war, and not eat the vodka and sell kerosene!

        Everything is accurate and there’s nothing to add! Well, if only what more are competent aircraft managers clearly trained to work with flyers. It was not for nothing that the spirits in Afghanistan quickly cut through from where the wind inflated bombs on them and specifically hunted them on the ground.
        1. +9
          25 July 2014 14: 47
          Quote: smile
          a fair amount of complexes, apparently supplied to the militias by Allah. :))

          Quote: avt
          Allah Vladimirovich.
          laughing good hi
        2. Alexander Ming
          +6
          25 July 2014 16: 03
          There is such a thesis-RISE LANDING VIARGE rest horseradish lodges so it turns out that hell is with SMAKOM
          1. +6
            25 July 2014 16: 56
            Quote: Alexander Ming
            There is such a thesis-RISE LANDING VIARGE rest horseradish lodges so it turns out that hell is with SMAKOM

            Ukrainians use kamikaze tactics, one way flight. am
        3. 0
          25 July 2014 22: 32
          Quote: avt
          Quote: smile
          Come on you. What Deinekin said is the alphabet, which is well known, and which could not help teaching in Ukrainian schools - the teachers there must be literate.


          Yes Yes! Only a small nuance - and if the pilots are not Ukrainians, from the former USSR, or simply stupid.

          Although it’s nonsense to write about tactics when information is in the public domain.
      2. +2
        25 July 2014 15: 00
        Quote: smile
        In general, such a plague as attacked Ukrainian aircraft in the skies of New Russia, it seems, was not in any war. None ... compare the amount
        Well, if you only hammer with cannons and NURSs, and this is possible only from low altitudes, then there is nothing strange in such losses. Look at the Yankees: they hit high-precision guided missiles at specific targets from great heights. Of airguns, they are beaten only at some weddings, and therefore in Afghanistan there are almost no losses.
        1. +10
          25 July 2014 16: 32
          enot73
          Well, if you compare with the hard work of our aircraft in Afghanistan, and in Chechnya too? What, there was actively used guided weapons? Or was Stinger a bad complex?
          Such losses of army aviation, comparable only to the losses of Arabs in a fierce fight with Jews, in confrontation with militias who have neither aviation nor normal air defense, are unprecedented. There has never been such a ratio of shot down to plane flights in the struggle of the Army with partisan formations and in no war in the entire history of aviation.
        2. +2
          25 July 2014 17: 20
          The weapons used directly depend on the military budget.
        3. avt
          +2
          25 July 2014 18: 25
          Quote: enot73
          hit guided high-precision missiles at specific targets from high altitudes.

          Just don't Lyalya and compare God's gift with scrambled eggs! From what such "great heights" if there the natives climbed up to 5000 with all the pribluds without much breathing and herach from a simple RPG-7 just directly into the board is on the same level!. Since the spirits, with the help of the Yankes, rested in a war with us, it cannot be compared with the current state! Yes, if we now poured them at least half of the weapons that the Chinese and Amers supplied them - would long ago they would throw atomic bombs. Yes, and they do not rest like ours. Shchas you super-cats will go to the caravan without toilet paper! When they showed on TV how the "valiant special forces" "mountain of thieves" took at the beginning of this epic, I happened to see the reaction of a person from group "Tibet", ask what it is. So he just whinnied looking at the screen and listening to what Tora Bora took ..
          1. dyremar 66
            +1
            25 July 2014 20: 04
            according to us, Georgian drying in 93 sub-sukhumi worked competently from the mountains and still the Abkhazians were knocked down by one before my eyes, not a rocket for sure
          2. +1
            25 July 2014 22: 26
            Quote: smile
            Well, if you compare with the hard work of our aircraft in Afghanistan, and in Chechnya too? What, there was actively used guided weapons? Or was Stinger a bad complex?

            Quote: avt
            Just don't Lyal and compare God's gift with scrambled eggs! From what such "great heights"
            muzhiks do not find fault 1) In Afghanistan and Chechnya, the bandits worked not on the same drying, as among the Ukrainians, so the work could be done much faster, and it is easier to suppress different DShK - MANPADS. And if the work is done with one side, then you need to arm and prepare more thoroughly. Well, as for the "heights", even 5 km are inaccessible to many MANPADS (this is what was meant), and the Taliban really do not have MANPADS left.
            1. 0
              25 July 2014 23: 59
              enot73
              Okay, I don’t find fault ... but there were hundreds of these DShKs and sparks 14.5, and the aircraft worked, often in the mountains - avt rightly wrote that often fire was opened, being on the same level as a helicopter - there was an interesting tactic of ambush actions in relation to aviation instructors there were quite enough. You take an interest in how they set up ambushes, right down to the use of caves with rails, on which movable snows or Vladimirs were installed - this is a very interesting topic. The fact is that the Dushmans had an order of magnitude more resources, there were much more of them themselves, and weapons went from everywhere. If Novorossia had such help, everything would have ended long ago ....
              By the way, I do not say anything about the actions of Americans in Afghanistan - I compare the actions of Ukrainians and ours in Afghanistan and Chechnya - the equipment and school are practically the same on both sides. Except for MANPADS. In general, the beating of Ukrainian aviation is the only precedent when someone was able to truly paralyze army aviation with the help of MANPADS. As far as I understand, so far this has been considered impossible.
      3. +5
        25 July 2014 15: 46
        Quote: smile
        In general, such a plague as attacked Ukrainian aircraft in the skies of New Russia, it seems, was not in any war.

        For the Guinness Book of Records the result! Here's someone with a minus equator size! - Their geostrategic claims against the background of the "strategic" mediocrity of the command.
      4. +2
        25 July 2014 15: 56
        That's it, that’s not okay. It’s not worth holding them for suckers, but there’s no need to tell them.
      5. +3
        25 July 2014 16: 03
        Quote: smile
        But there is a clear hint about very well-trained MANPADS operators and the hefty number of systems,

        We can say that it is a conditional hint to "friendly neighbors" about the results of creating a no-fly zone. There, in an instant, the hippie movement will break out after the first 200 ...
        Although I'm afraid they won't understand a subtle hint. There is a precedent - a downed Boeing. Now it remains to say - "For the sake of world order and the prosperity of the democratic regime, it is necessary to introduce a peacekeeping contagent"
      6. alexxnumx
        +2
        25 July 2014 17: 19
        oh well, everything’s fine, the beeches themselves start the rooks, the followers do not understand who gets off this is the usual and expected ending of the deliberate collapse of the army.
      7. 0
        25 July 2014 23: 27
        Did everyone notice that the helicopters practically stopped flying? It will also be with airplanes!
    2. +1
      25 July 2014 14: 17
      Yes article tip for dill .............
      1. +20
        25 July 2014 14: 31
        Quote: kostik1301
        Yes article tip for dill .............

        What is written is known to all flyers of combat aircraft. But it’s not easy to put into practice. This is taught at training grounds, first flying on a shaver with the envelope of the relief, then the jump rule, and only then shooting and bombing. Yes, and the practice of such actions has been developed over the years. with pilots such as take-off and landing, there won’t be any sense. It was necessary to learn before the war, and not eat a vodka and sell kerosene!
        1. ran nearby
          0
          26 July 2014 02: 16
          This is not even the flyers, some know :) When I served in Germany, the actions of army aviation were constantly practiced there. Over the parade ground periodically MI-24 in pairs at low level passed. That's where beauty and strength are !!! When a pair of "Crocodiles" are walking over the treetops!
      2. +13
        25 July 2014 14: 35
        Quote: kostik1301
        Yes article tip for dill .............

        In dill there are tips of a great lope, the main thing is to find translators. Well, they will not use our tips out of harm. =)
      3. +13
        25 July 2014 15: 00
        Quote: kostik1301
        Yes article tip for dill .............

        There are dozens of such tips in any beer house on the table. Somehow I got into the hands of a textbook of the NVP that's where the military secret is! If there are no flying hours, then at least follow the instructions all hang on a parachute (and then on the gallows).
      4. +3
        25 July 2014 15: 07
        Quote: kostik1301
        Yes article tip for dill
        Should have, for such a time themselves guess Nuuu stupid Yes
        1. +1
          25 July 2014 18: 16
          They now have the main advisers to the Americans. And how they fight (mainly with civilians) has long been known using terrorist tactics. And rightly one of the members of the forum said to them that our (according to the Maydanuty) tactics are not suitable, give them NATO.
      5. +1
        25 July 2014 15: 09
        Quote: kostik1301
        Yes article tip for dill .............


        If everything was so simple, then why teach pilots first at the school, and then carry out a constant raid in the unit. This is how I heard the conversation: "As doctors could not determine the diagnosis, I looked at the doctor's guide and understood everything." And it’s unaware that comparing the symptoms, knowing the diagnosis, is one thing, but determining the diagnosis by symptoms is quite another.
      6. yur58
        +3
        25 July 2014 15: 41
        Without practical development of various options, the theory gives absolutely nothing. Try theoretically, while sitting at home, learn to play football, hockey, and then go out to play with the pros.
    3. +13
      25 July 2014 14: 22
      This is AZE! Do you really think that ukroletchiki do not know them? But the professionalism of PZRKshnikov is high and pleasing! Do not blame the author.
    4. +4
      25 July 2014 14: 22
      Dear AlexandrK. Do you sincerely believe that all of this command and the Air Force pilots do not know and do not understand?
    5. +9
      25 July 2014 14: 24
      If the commander is not, then he will think of it without any articles like this. But if he is a ram, then even a squadron of 10th generation aircraft will not help him.
      No, gentlemen (and ladies), judge for yourself. We had a strong enemy at the time - the Fritz. We put against them superior tanks in many respects. But the mistakes of command, the unlearnedness of the crews brought these advantages to naught. But even in this case, tactical moves were used - taking T-34 tanks in pincers, filling KV engines with gasoline. At the same time, our students studied and made conclusions - they created tactics for tank ambushes.
      Simply, both those and those commanders were not idiots and took into account experience. If this is not taken into account, then even scattering such articles over their headquarters will not be of any use.

      P.S. And wai the word used in the literature by Dostoevsky is deleted?
    6. +2
      25 July 2014 14: 27
      Quote: AlexandrK
      To punitive take into account the errors and could kill more civilians and militias to kill?

      I absolutely agree with you. Journalists are such a "people": for the sake of a "catch phrase" they will not regret their father!
    7. antiviruses
      +3
      25 July 2014 14: 29
      I agree, just as almost in the Chechen news, they rattled from where ours were preparing a strike ... there is still a lot of brain "bov, or provocateurs and we
      1. wanderer_032
        +1
        25 July 2014 14: 51
        Quote: antivirys
        I agree, just as almost in the Chechen news, they rattled from where ours were preparing a strike ... there is still a lot of brain "bov, or provocateurs and we


        No, it's just a tongue without bones, for some it would not hurt to hold it by the teeth.
        1. +3
          25 July 2014 15: 12
          Quote: wanderer_032
          Quote: antivirys
          I agree, just as almost in the Chechen news, they rattled from where ours were preparing a strike ... there is still a lot of brain "bov, or provocateurs and we


          No, it's just a tongue without bones, for some it would not hurt to hold it by the teeth.

          in editions is required.
    8. +5
      25 July 2014 14: 46
      Yes, the general said little that the enemy could come in handy. Let svidomye on their for ... on their seat are learning. With such losses, however, the students will soon end.
    9. The comment was deleted.
    10. 0
      25 July 2014 15: 28
      ..... I agree ... This is not the first such article on the site ... hi
    11. +1
      25 July 2014 15: 45
      Hmm ... I think the Nazis have enough teachers ... Brains only obviously aren't enough !!! Militias ALSO BE NOT CHILDREN !!! And perfectly TRAINED !!!
      1. +1
        25 July 2014 17: 57
        Quote: Armagedon
        Hmm ... I think the Nazis have enough teachers ... Brains only obviously aren't enough !!! Militias ALSO BE NOT CHILDREN !!! And perfectly TRAINED !!!

        And Natsik, of course, ONE-CHILD!
    12. Nicholas
      +2
      25 July 2014 15: 59
      oh well_ second grade (course) second quarter!
    13. 0
      25 July 2014 16: 08
      I agree with you! Can they send more brochures, such as tutorials?
    14. VAF
      VAF
      +8
      25 July 2014 16: 41
      Quote: AlexandrK
      I personally don’t understand why such articles are printed?


      What have you read so baptically in this article? belay
      THIS IS ABC!
      The discipline "Tactics of the combat use of a kind of aviation" is studied (at least in my time) in all "schools". in practice, they began to work out already at the end of the 2nd course, the beginning of the 3rd.
      Have you forgotten that our schools and teachers were the same? The country was the USSR !!! soldier
      Add a little respected Peter Stepanovich!
      1. For bombing the ASP with TU and .. "no need to jump" wink
      2. It all depends on this "jump" and .. "for a short time", and of course on the type of ASP.

      Everything else .. it's a DOGMA !!! soldier especially re-entry .. a practical way to the grave! soldier

      And the fact that dill does not fly stupidly, but like ... in the first year ... pancake, it’s only their own fault ... you can’t. You don’t know. soldier better download and chew fat if it is still there!
    15. +1
      25 July 2014 16: 50
      What's the secret?
      On the contrary, let them think that they are very difficult to bring down.
      Here, as in sniping, or you can, or not given!
      So that they beat, they beat and they will beat - Laskavo is requested!
    16. artemon0502
      0
      25 July 2014 17: 14
      this is a traitor with 5 columns is not clear?
    17. 0
      25 July 2014 17: 22
      Absolutely. The idiocy of the enemy must be protected and even encouraged. Why should he help like that?
      The article should be removed immediately, I believe.
    18. 0
      25 July 2014 18: 09
      Yeah, they also sent Deineka on a business trip to Kiev to share his experience. Stunned by "Look"?
    19. 0
      25 July 2014 23: 28
      Let them fall, and so that there are only takeoffs from dill to heaven. laughing
  2. -2
    25 July 2014 14: 08
    Question to the author.
    With this article you are trying to improve the professional level of ukroluftvaffe, or what? Well, write there.
    1. +12
      25 July 2014 14: 16
      There is nothing to help with this article. Apparently those few little more trained pilots who were already already beaten. If they were in the Ukrainian Army at all
    2. +3
      25 July 2014 14: 52
      Quote: kolyhalovs
      Question to the author.
      With this article you are trying to improve the professional level of ukroluftvaffe, or what? Well, write there.

      ------------------------
      I haven’t read anything new in the article ... The same conclusions can be made on the basis of flight simulation games ...
      1. Alexander Ming
        0
        25 July 2014 15: 19
        Well, you are probably a good player on the Simulator lose in life Remember Practice is the basis of knowledge Player
        1. +2
          25 July 2014 17: 26
          Quote: Alexander Min
          Well, you are probably a good player on the Simulator lose in life Remember Practice is the basis of knowledge Player

          ------------------------------------------
          I can say that I’m not a gamer at all, I played only primitive “Pearl Harbor”, where special skills are not required, but you have to carry out assault actions on ground targets ... In life I would also like to play, but aviation is expensive for me. ..In general, I advise you to read aviation forums and specialized sites, instead of reproaches ... They write that every time you have to develop tactics, taking into account the enemy's arsenal of anti-aircraft weapons ... So read on and learn a lot ... How, for example, the Israelis managed to catch the super-high-speed and super-high-altitude MiG-25 ... How the MiG-21 was used in Afghanistan ... It is interesting to read ... So the Ukrainian pilots themselves are to blame for their arrogance or they have little skill, they can only lift the plane , fly along the route, find landmarks and a target, make an approach to the target ... For more, there are not enough skills or imagination ... And in general, for a start they turn to you, I did not raise a glass with you ...
    3. Andrey44
      +2
      25 July 2014 16: 48
      Article ukrovaflyam not help. It’s just that after the fall of the Boeing, they thought that the Novorosskoe air defense would be afraid to work and began to freak out a little. And then he.e. flies to you. Typical psychology ukrov. Now they will fly less and more accurately.
  3. +17
    25 July 2014 14: 09
    The plane is really great. Only equipment in the hands of a savage is a pile of metal. Here dill and lose planes. am
    1. Alexander Ming
      -3
      25 July 2014 15: 21
      And if you think about it - maybe they, too, are ultimately Slovenian and they have families, I don’t justify it, but I suggest that they think NOT savages
      1. +6
        25 July 2014 15: 23
        Quote: Alexander Min
        they, too, are ultimately Slovenian

        Yes, they are Slovenes, and we are Slavs.
      2. ran nearby
        0
        26 July 2014 02: 24
        they are filth! Neher bomb civilians. And their fate is one - grave!
  4. +7
    25 July 2014 14: 10
    A clear analysis of the specialist errors of Ukrainian pilots, leading to their destruction by air defense militias.
  5. 0
    25 July 2014 14: 11
    I agree, why not
  6. -6
    25 July 2014 14: 11
    The head generally has such articles on its shoulders! Come on let's teach kill
    1. +11
      25 July 2014 14: 24
      Quote: Romin
      ! Come on let's teach kill

      Don't go crazy fool This has been taught for years and not on forums. laughing
      1. +3
        25 July 2014 14: 49
        Quote: Ruslan67
        Don't go crazy

        I'll try ... recourse
        Hi Ruslan! drinks
        1. +3
          25 July 2014 15: 07
          Quote: retired
          I'll try ...

          Better not stop And then suddenly it turns out laughing Hi drinks
          1. +1
            25 July 2014 18: 47
            Quote: Ruslan67
            And then suddenly it turns out

            How about you ... what So I say: maybe not ... what
            Maybe this ... We’ll sit a bit in the evening? There is a reason - Yes How ? Write in a personal.
    2. Old Cynic
      +14
      25 July 2014 14: 30
      Listen to me carefully:
      I’ll tell you a terrible secret - with a kitchen knife, you can cut the throat of a disgusting wife with a dark nightie !!! Only you about it - t-s-s-s-s-s !!! No one ...
      And you can take it on the lake by the light curls - and drag it into the pool ...
      And about this, too, no one ... Shhhhhhhhh !!! This is from the instructions of "polite little green men", publishing house UKRPROSVETRADA, 2014.

      Man, you either moron, or mow under it. Do you think that THIS ARTICLE is abrupt than the instructions of the USSR Ministry of Defense on combating air targets?
      And you can shoot them down with concentrated fire from AK! Proven by Vietnam.


      My minus is for the limited worldview and lack of intelligence.
      1. Alexander Ming
        +1
        25 July 2014 15: 27
        NU-U YOU are just a CINIC with a good CINIC letter you cite the statements of others and at the same time laugh well I respect
        1. Old Cynic
          +2
          25 July 2014 15: 44
          hi I do not "cynu the statements of others", I just want people to think with their heads before writing something, and even at the same time would be responsible for their words by clicking on the minus.
          hi
  7. +8
    25 July 2014 14: 11
    Here I am, although not a pilot, but I don’t understand how? How can you lose so much? Just one excuse ... dill))))
    1. +4
      25 July 2014 15: 17
      Quote: nicolay338
      How can you lose so much?

      remember 08.08.08, and photos of our planes with a hole instead of an engine and not a che !!!, flew home!
      here most likely the weak (very weak) training of the pilots. TK MANPADS will damage one engine, it’s most likely to hold on to the second, and then the broads and the catapult. The engine alone failed and the pilot farted with a fright of fat and a parachute over his head.
      I don’t know the pilot, but I saw the launch of the MANPADS in Chechnya on the rook, ours went very nicely with a turn and a sharp decline, and the led (maybe the host, xs) series of NURSES from the turn to the place from where the smoke came out, launched. Hit did not hit, I do not know.
    2. Alexander Ming
      +1
      25 July 2014 15: 29
      You need to learn - VIL said to LEARN TO LEARN AND STUDY ONE TIME here is my slogan and
      1. 0
        25 July 2014 17: 34
        Quote: Alexander Ming
        You need to learn - VIL said to LEARN TO LEARN AND STUDY ONE TIME here is my slogan and

        And what is surprising, in Russia it was the same, the lack of fuel. I don't remember exactly how many helicopter pilots raid on airplanes. In the Union, our AA squadron, together with the IAP, divided the airfield for two, three shifts a week. And then "eternal" parking "on foot on the flight". I think now are different times, Russian pilots are polishing their skills.
  8. +8
    25 July 2014 14: 15
    Simple handsome!
    1. +23
      25 July 2014 14: 21
      Yes, as in a joke ...
      Parashenko sat down to drink tea ...
      But there are not enough driers ..!
      laughing
      1. Alexander Ming
        +1
        25 July 2014 15: 30
        AND CHOCOLATE ENDS
      2. RUSLAT
        +1
        25 July 2014 18: 19
        More precisely, the drying is over .....
      3. djtyysq
        0
        25 July 2014 20: 27
        Quote: MIKHAN
        Yes, as in a joke ...
        Parashenko sat down to drink tea ...
        But there are not enough driers ..!
        laughing


        Well done, +++++
    2. wanderer_032
      0
      25 July 2014 15: 09
      Quote: Pro100
      Simple handsome!


      This is the SU-25UB, however, at one time even the GDP itself personally flew on it.
      So the reliability is verified and confirmed by the GDP itself.

      1. bigELDAK
        +2
        25 July 2014 15: 36
        Su-25UTG deck aircraft.
        1. wanderer_032
          -2
          25 July 2014 15: 41
          Quote: bigELDAK
          Su-25UTG deck aircraft.


          I thought it was a mod. Navy Aviation UB for coastal defense ... feel
          I forgot that the deck mod. Is also there.
          1. VAF
            VAF
            +1
            25 July 2014 16: 31
            Quote: wanderer_032
            I thought it was a mod. U.S. Navy Aviation for coastal defense ... feel
            I forgot that the deck mod. Is also there.


            I didn’t forget. I didn’t know! soldier
            There is no modification for coastal defense. The UTG-scale is only for teaching piloting when boarding a ship. Testing approaches to the deck and on the ground .. eliminating breaks in piloting technique. ALL!
            Of weapons, only PM is possible in the left pocket of the overalls (the second under the ass in NAZ and then .. if there is one). Well, a sling cutter in the right foot pocket of the compose or sliders.
            And yes .. you can still take a slingshot with you .. open the lantern on the circle and .. shoot the gulls lol
            1. wanderer_032
              +2
              25 July 2014 17: 43
              Quote: vaf
              I didn’t forget. I didn’t know!

              Okay, I didn’t know, I give up ... Because, as an aviation expert, it’s a shitty one. feel
              Not my profile, I'm more on ground pieces of iron. laughing
    3. +3
      25 July 2014 15: 12
      Quote: Pro100
      Simple handsome!

      Yeah, he must be thrown flowers at approach, and they, fiends, from MANPADS. smile
    4. 0
      25 July 2014 20: 46
      I agree, handsome. But this is UTG. He doesn’t shoot at all.
  9. +7
    25 July 2014 14: 15
    But when will the Ukrainian army run out of combat aircraft?
    1. comrad74
      +3
      25 July 2014 14: 27
      Not soon. they will still be sent to them from the stockpiles of the Warsaw Pact countries.
      1. +2
        25 July 2014 14: 40
        Quote: comrad74
        Not soon. they will still be sent to them from the stockpiles of the Warsaw Pact countries.

        This is bad.
        1. +1
          25 July 2014 18: 03
          Let's put the question differently: Yes, when will the pilots of combat aircraft run out from the Ukrainian army?
  10. +6
    25 July 2014 14: 15
    Give the militia "Arrow-10" and the sky in the southeast will be closed
  11. +13
    25 July 2014 14: 17
    Quote: AlexandrK
    I personally don’t understand why such articles are printed? So that punishers take into account mistakes and can kill more civilians and militias?


    A military pilot is one of the most expensive (for the state) professions worldwide, years of training and millions of rubles.
    From reading one article, pilots do not become. Relax hi
    1. Old Cynic
      +4
      25 July 2014 14: 36
      From reading one article, pilots do not become. Relax

      Can you imagine what will happen if he relaxes?
      He will present "Chippolino" for the Combat Regulations of the Ground Forces.
      1. +2
        25 July 2014 14: 45
        laughing Well, you have a fantasy
        1. Old Cynic
          +1
          25 July 2014 15: 41
          Well, the Medvedev government is already implementing Prince Lemon’s program.
          Remember how there:
          "One hundred lire for a simple rain!
          For heavy rain - two hundred lire!
          For rain with a thunderstorm - three hundred lire! Ma-a-a-a-a-a-a = lach !!! "

          Do you think that Romin is dumber than Medvedev? Quite the opposite!
  12. +10
    25 July 2014 14: 18
    Give ours a shovel and they will knock her!
    1. Alexander Ming
      0
      25 July 2014 15: 32
      LA-5 - or something
    2. +2
      25 July 2014 17: 38
      Quote: Baatyr
      Give ours a shovel and they will knock her!

      Does not lose relevance _
  13. +5
    25 July 2014 14: 18
    And you, friends, do not sit down, everyone is not suitable for musicians (Krylov). They can only be trusted with a stone for the war, but by no means a complicated technique ... Death to Bandera!
  14. +2
    25 July 2014 14: 22
    pilots had little practice. Especially fighting. But unfortunately they are studying. Courses are of course paid. Prices are high (for almost two dozen aircraft clicked). But the study is on. So it may turn out that when it comes to the Crimea, serious fighters prepared as a result of natural selection can appear in the sky.
  15. +2
    25 July 2014 14: 23
    The Americans are interested in the soonest "write-off" of all Dill's assault and transport aircraft, for their further replacement with their outdated and decommissioned samples: A-10 Thunderbolt, Appach and Iroquois.
    1. +4
      25 July 2014 14: 33
      It will be much easier to shoot them down. On them instead of titanium Kevlar. The level of combat skill of the ukroletchikov was clearly visible during the battles in Slavyansk, where helicopters hovered and turned for a long time in the direction of the target and only then fired, as in a shooting gallery.
  16. +16
    25 July 2014 14: 24
    Su-25 is generally a very tenacious aircraft:
    In Afghanistan, on average, for each Su-25 shot down, there were 80-90 combat damage, cases were described when aircraft with 150 holes returned to the base. Most sources talk about the loss in Afghanistan of 23 Su-25 and 8 pilots, while it is noted that there was not a single case of aircraft loss due to an explosion in fuel tanks or the death of a pilot.




    damaged su-xnumx in Afghanistan
    During the first Chechnya, combat losses amounted to 5 aircraft (four were shot down and one was decommissioned due to combat damage), during the Second Company, 6 attack aircraft were lost.
    During the war, "888" officially confirmed losses of the Russian Air Force in hostilities amounted to three Su-25s, four more were seriously damaged, which significantly exceeded the losses and damage of other types of aircraft used. The South Ossetian and Russian sides at different times announced the destruction of a number of Georgian aircraft, including more than 4 Su-25.




    damaged russian su-xnumx
    1. avt
      +3
      25 July 2014 15: 29
      Quote: Novel 1977
      In Afghanistan, on average, for each Su-25 shot down, there were 80-90 combat damage, cases were described when aircraft with 150 holes were returned to the base.

      And this is in the mountains with incomparably denser air defense than now in the Donbass, the flyers said - the impression is that you enter the gorge and "welding" even from above. They used tactically competently and not one piece at a time. And in general - they were preparing an air strike quite specifically , and not from the bay floundering, flew, frightened with one kind, but it was not there!
      1. +4
        25 July 2014 15: 54
        Dear avt, such serious losses of the Ubundian Air Force, even taking into account the official data of the Ukrainian army, the losses of the Su-25 reached 4 shot down and two damaged, indicate an extremely low level of training of pilots. Thus, of the 19 combat-ready Su-25 of all modifications available at the beginning of hostilities - three were sent for repair by resource, two were damaged, and four were shot down. As a result, the grouping should consist of 10 aircraft of this type. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, 23 years have already passed, i.e. there are simply no pilots who were trained to fly Su-25 in Soviet times, and the preparation of new ones can be judged by the losses of attack aircraft.
        Now, where Ukrainians can take trained pilots to the Su-25-only in Eastern European countries (Angoda, Iran, North Korea, Peru, Ethiopia and Eritrea, we immediately dismiss fantastic). Theoretically, this could be:
        -loads, Su-25 is the only type of Georgian Air Force combat aircraft: 12 upgraded Su-25KM / UB Scorpion

        -Bulgars: in October 1986, the country received 36 Su-25K and four Su-25UBKs. The aircraft were operated by 22 ibap, where they replaced the MiG-17 and MiG-15UTI. One plane (together with the pilot) was lost in the 17 crash of April 1989 of the year. Currently withdrawn from service, Bulgaria sold Georgia in 2008-4 Su-25, in 2012 -10 Su-25 attack aircraft. It is reported that all planes have fully exhausted their resources and sold as a “source for repair”
        http://lenta.ru/news/2013/06/21/su25togeorgia/


        Cheches, after the partition of Czechoslovakia, the Czech Republic received 24 Su-25K and one Su-25UBK, which were put together in the 30-th head, with their base in Pardubice, in December 2000 were withdrawn from service and stored at the air base in Prerov.

        -Slovaks, after the collapse of Czechoslovakia, the country received 11 Su-25K and the only Su-25UBK. In place of the former OZ, the aircraft received new and new camouflage. Currently sold to Armenia.
        1. avt
          0
          25 July 2014 16: 42
          Quote: Novel 1977
          even taking into account the official data of the Ukrainian army, the losses of the Su-25 reached 4 shot down and two damaged, indicate an extremely low level of training of pilots.

          request There’s nothing to comment on.
          Quote: Novel 1977
          Now, where Ukrainians can take trained pilots on the Su-25- only in Eastern European countries (Angoda, Iran, North Korea, Peru, Ethiopia and Eritrea, we immediately dismiss fantastic).

          Here I will allow myself to add. Okay . Well, they found pilots, even qualified ones. Of course, they can also put planes from their reserve on the wing, there really is no money for all this, but let's suppose they strained and set. BUT! The fact that they like this, will immediately establish a competent, massive use of aviation, and even tactically competently in conjunction with air navigation, electronic warfare and electronic ground support, I simply cannot imagine. Yes, and Self-Defense will not sit in Sydney either, the dynamics since the beginning of the conflict This clearly shows. So, in the conditions of degradation of the state as a management system, that actually from yesterday, ANYONE can simply watch live on TV of the project "Ukraine 1991" not even in Kiselev's program - on the mobile TV and on the channels, not being distracted by the forecasts of political scientists, hope that a separate, complex aviation segment of the military machine will develop, and not degrade ... request this is from the area of ​​computer games with the ability to reboot and a bunch of virtual lives laughing
          1. +2
            25 July 2014 16: 59
            Quote: avt
            There’s nothing to comment on.

            You can’t argue here. Oh, how they lack the experience of the Heroes of the UPA, well, the Germans did not allow their lackeys to planes, although the ROA Air Force existed.

            But they themselves refused Ivan Nikitich Kozhedub ...

            Quote: avt
            Here I will allow myself to add. Okay . Well, they found pilots, even qualified ones. Of course, they can also put planes from their reserve on the wing, there really is no money for all this, but let's suppose they strained and set. BUT! The fact that they like this, will immediately establish a competent, massive use of aviation, and even tactically competently in conjunction with air navigation, electronic warfare and electronic ground support, I simply cannot imagine. Yes, and Self-Defense will not sit in Sydney either, the dynamics since the beginning of the conflict this clearly shows .So, in the conditions of degradation of the state as a management system, that actually from yesterday, ANYONE can simply watch live on TV of the project "Ukraine 1991" not even in Kiselev's program - on the mobile TV and on the channels, not being distracted by the predictions of political scientists, hope that a separate, complex aviation segment of the military machine will develop, and not degrade ... this is from the field of computer games with the ability to reboot and a bunch of virtual lives

            Here again I would like to supplement. Note, unlike the same Syrians, who use their Air Force to the fullest, the Su-24 and even the MiG-29 from the GSH-30 and FAB work on the positions of the basmachi, not to mention the MiG-21, MiG-23, Su- 20 / 22, L-39, in conditions of much stronger enemy air defense, the Ukrainians did not use their Su-24.

            Attempts of their sorties usually end sadly, 2 cars have already been lost: on March 23 at the airfield in Starokonstantinov (during landing) and on July 2 over the Donetsk region, presumably a MANPADS hit, the plane managed to reach the airfield, presumably it will not be restored, and after all, Su- 24 is a much more sophisticated vehicle that allows it to strike at any time of the day, unlike, for example, the Su-25. Even the Iraqi pilots, who received the Su-24 in the summer of 1988 and did not manage to master them, managed to overtake the aircraft to Iran during the "Desert Storm" without loss, despite the enemy's complete air superiority. As for the combat use of the MiG-29, apparently there is no talk about this at all, except for carrying out propaganda missions at high altitudes inaccessible to the air defense of the militia. All this also indicates the low level of training're coming out of the Air Force.
            1. avt
              +2
              25 July 2014 18: 08
              Quote: Novel 1977
              As for the combat use of the MiG-29, apparently, there is no talk of this at all, except for militiamen, which is inaccessible to air defense means, for carrying out propaganda flights at a high altitude.

              So it seems from the 29 unih there were only "firewood" left.
              Quote: Novel 1977
              But the Su-24 is a much more complex machine that allows you to strike at any time of the day, unlike, for example, the Su-25.

              Absolutely right! It seems like this - he stands in the parking lot, refueled, sat down and drove off. laughing Well, given the state in which they generally maintained their park request ..... well, that’s all - our 90s have a rest, what an all-weather use there is and at any time of the day! Happened - it’s already happiness. It was a sinful thing when the information passed in what state they had in 29th in Belbek, I thought - well, you never know. Maybe they pulled all the best into westernization and there everything seemed to be in a less or less flying state. But this is generally .... well, in general, moderators will definitely be banned. laughing In a word, the Novorossiysk lucky that ykry misplaced their Air Force. But transport and flight turntables were generally leased to commerce, but they did not give - martial law was not declared, which means there is no force majeure. ABALDET! laughing Although what to be surprised at that! They generally poured their country into the toilet and still ask - "Hasn't Ukraine died yet?" I don't know, in jokes they often say - "No, they didn't call the country Honduras." But the fact that these maydaunnye Banderlog with the country they inherited are doing - to compare them with anctodic Honduras means insulting the very name Honduras.
    2. Alexander Ming
      0
      25 July 2014 15: 37
      GLORY TO THE PILOTS OF RUSSIA-yes SAVES THEIR GOD and we sinners will ask him to CARE THEM
    3. 0
      25 July 2014 18: 21
      That's really really "on parole and on one wing"
  17. +6
    25 July 2014 14: 26
    How difficult is it to shoot down the Su-25 from MANPADS?

    PD: Very difficult. They are in service with conventional rifle divisions, but at the same time they must undergo appropriate training. But they are designed for soldiers of military service.
    The militias are strong-willed and among them there are many who fought. And dill pilots at the controls pilots without a raid. That's why the losses are
    1. +2
      25 July 2014 15: 07
      The number of raids is only one of the reasons. Here, as they say, who studied what and who remembered what.
  18. +7
    25 July 2014 14: 29
    Quote: AlexandrK
    I personally don’t understand why such articles are printed? So that punishers take into account mistakes and can kill more civilians and militias?
    It’s just a shame for the former commander-in-chief for the Su25 and plus that with every downed attack aircraft, the confidence of the flight crew on the plane decreases. There are probably those who consider downed planes for the entire time of their use and, on the basis of this, give an assessment to a particular airplane. And you must admit, the number of downed attack aircraft speaks about the professional training of the hp. and that the Su25 is the most shot down aircraft in the world currently in operation. And soon this will be shown on the Discovery Channel belay And yet, what did the general reveal some secret, and this is not written in any documents on the use of aviation?
    1. Alexander Ming
      +1
      25 July 2014 15: 51
      ABOUT MENTAL PSYCHOLOGICAL I agree that working on this type is necessary given the experience of using this type and considering that the years of timelessness in RUSSIA have not been in vain - remember the first president of the BN and the team - a man with a harem conclusions
    2. gladiator
      0
      26 July 2014 06: 43
      I agree that they often start to blame the plane. I read Yakovlev’s memoirs. So there, too, they began at one time to say that the yaks were burning. Only later did it become clear that young pilots on yaks were opposed by assists from the Luftwaffe transferred from Europe. The level of professional training of the pilot is a very important factor.
  19. +3
    25 July 2014 14: 30
    About a year ago I read the memoirs of the pilot Koshkin, who worked on the Su-25 in Chechnya and Abkhazia. The work is described very interestingly. If you find on the net, be sure to read.
    1. 0
      25 July 2014 15: 40
      Good book.
  20. +4
    25 July 2014 14: 32
    I think that those pilots who know how to fight and know how to fly really just did not sit at the helm, so as not to stain themselves with the blood of their fellow citizens! Though Ukrainian, but real officers! But ignoramuses, without conscience, and venal careerists, who flew mainly through cabinets, sat down!
    We thought that the basics received at the school would be enough to bomb peaceful cities, and here such sadness is MANPADS!
  21. -5
    25 July 2014 14: 33
    The former commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force, Colonel-General Pyotr Deinekin, is obliged not only to voice his best considerations, but to convey in writing to the junta in Kiev, everyone will know what kind of specialist he is. Maybe they'll even "like" it.
  22. +4
    25 July 2014 14: 34
    The article is normal, you must agree here are a few military pilots, because many will be interested. The article does not disclose military secrets; the basics of the combat use of aviation weapons, tactics and combat manuals, i.e. subjects studied by cadets of flight schools, you just need to fly more, but grandfathers in the regiment are needed, just dill does not have one.
  23. +2
    25 July 2014 14: 35
    Quote: Finches
    I think that those pilots who know how to fight and know how to fly really just did not sit at the helm, so as not to stain themselves with the blood of their fellow citizens! Though Ukrainian, but real officers! But ignoramuses, without conscience, and venal careerists, who flew mainly through cabinets, sat down!
    We thought that the basics received at the school would be enough to bomb peaceful cities, and here such sadness is MANPADS!

    I agree. It was planned an easy walk in New Russia. No one thought that there would be such a powerful resistance. So why do extra gestures in a hidden approach to the goal, especially to the civilian goal.
  24. +2
    25 July 2014 14: 43
    http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2014/984/oygk247.jpg
  25. 0
    25 July 2014 14: 45
    The more it falls, the more alive and unharmed will remain women and children. There is nothing to instruct them once again, God also punishes them! Nek pilots they are vultures!
  26. omito
    +4
    25 July 2014 14: 54
    I will add my little opinion. Information has repeatedly passed that pilots make combat sorties for money.

    Such a flyer flies, BABAH a missile hits him. A buzzer pops in the cockpit (usually they shoot not one but two from different directions). The plane starts to be controlled also worse.

    Theoretically, he knows that an airplane can withstand that it can be reached, but that’s a risk.

    Why the heck we take risks. WE ARE NOT GASTELLO!

    We pull the handle and burn it with a blue flame. And if the territory with its own is also nearby, then it's generally gorgeous.
  27. +2
    25 July 2014 15: 01
    what happens is the merit of the scouts or the venality of ukrov staff
  28. Registrar
    +2
    25 July 2014 15: 07
    I will add another photo (2008).
    The surviving machine is obvious.
  29. +3
    25 July 2014 15: 22
    Quote: nivasander
    what happens is the merit of the scouts or the venality of ukrov staff
    Born to ride - fuck not fly!
  30. -2
    25 July 2014 15: 27
    what a moronic article. educational program for the Nazi pilots bred. shot down and will shoot down.
    1. -2
      25 July 2014 21: 30
      parcels again namusulili.
      1. -1
        25 July 2014 21: 47
        again, the deserters of the minuses came across.
  31. Vitalka
    +3
    25 July 2014 15: 29
    I personally don’t understand why such articles are printed? So that punishers take into account mistakes and can kill more civilians and militias?

    This article is for those morons who are knocked down in the sky by ruins in bundles, like driven sparrows in the steppe. Do not fly boys from ukroluftvaffe to the Eastern Front! There - as always!
  32. +10
    25 July 2014 15: 30
    Really the basics are well known. Even in the memoirs of WWII pilots are found. If it’s interesting, then in the statistics of the second Chechen you will not see the loss of aviation by air defense pilots after 2002. The first is the same picture. I remember March 1996, and oh and got holes. In the second first flights, a leading experienced squash player and a lead debutant with an instructor. They showed what and how, where not to climb, how to fly and how to shoot. MANPADS starts scared a lot of people, would you have seen the eyes of some before departure. It got to the point that they hid at 5 meters in unjustified cases and grabbed the trees of wire ... Here, in addition to experience and knowledge, psychology also works. I was lucky with the teachers, such nuances and fortals showed that they do not write in books. So, Ukrainian pilots will have neither enough time nor equipment to gain experience.
    1. 0
      25 July 2014 15: 57
      Quote: Avis24
      So, Ukrainian pilots will have neither enough time nor equipment to gain experience.

      God grant, Vlad.
  33. 0
    25 July 2014 15: 44
    These are all theories, but a man sits in the cockpit. I do not know ? if the pilot has not flown a combat aircraft for 6 months, then this is no longer a pilot, so they have such flyers.
  34. +2
    25 July 2014 15: 47
    The car has nothing to do with it! If initially the hands are crooked, or simply a huge lack of experience, then put the pilot at least for a super modern aircraft and he will kill him even on takeoff. :)
    And the fact that with competent and skillful use, even on a broomstick, you can shoot down "stealth" (well, others like them), so history will prove it to you. Remember the air battles of 1941-1942. When our pilots on old "Ishachkas" and "Chaikas" were shooting the vaunted aces of Goering from heaven. Well, or the Vietnam War. When the antediluvian MiG-17 brought down electronic "Phantoms" (I will tactfully keep silent about the MiG-21: D).
    1. RUSLAT
      0
      25 July 2014 17: 57
      In 41 years, for every shot Messer there were a dozen donkeys and seagulls ..... Your unsuccessful example. A lot depends on the technique, you can win at least a simple AUDI on an even track on OKE. But the fact that the junta has problems with personnel is very likely .....
  35. +1
    25 July 2014 16: 54
    ARTICLE minus !!! not hell gadam help even in a so-called harmless article
    !!!
  36. 0
    25 July 2014 17: 11
    Quote: Observer2014
    ARTICLE minus !!! not hell gadam help even in a so-called harmless article
    !!!

    The article is informative! The basics are well-known, so there is no question of any help!
  37. 0
    25 July 2014 17: 36
    Another nuance is not in favor of the Ukrainian pilots. Even with the presence of pilots who passed Afghanistan, we did not immediately learn to apply their experience. First they got a full hole, only then they sat down and discussed together what and how. And some especially "experienced" chiefs also drove to the full ..., what are you afraid of MANPADS you have a parachute. And after the loss "guys, well, sorry, I didn't think ..."
  38. RUSLAT
    0
    25 July 2014 17: 50
    Maybe the retired general will also conduct continuing education courses for the junta? Some retirees behave strangely, gives interviews, but does not think about the consequences ......
  39. 0
    25 July 2014 18: 34
    Quote: comrad74
    Not soon. they will still be sent to them from the stockpiles of the Warsaw Pact countries.

    And Canada also promised some eroplans ........
  40. +1
    25 July 2014 20: 58
    Such recommendations that are set out in the article are in any simulator. If they begin to fly low, then all the communications towers are plowed and the hills will be plowed. lol
  41. 0
    26 July 2014 00: 07
    VIEW: How difficult is it to knock down the Su-25 from MANPADS?

    PD: Very difficult. They are in service with conventional rifle units, but at the same time they must undergo appropriate training.
    Well done militias! Almost real pros.
  42. jona
    +1
    26 July 2014 00: 28
    I wonder how many days dill have enough aircraft? But actually let them fly than fly
    1. 0
      26 July 2014 17: 14
      Quote: jona
      I wonder how many days dill have enough aircraft?

      Theirs have already run out, information has passed. _ The former members of the Warsaw Pact are now helping them with dryers, and Georgia does not forget its accomplice.
  43. 0
    26 July 2014 02: 43
    Yes, everything is wrong to them on our walkie-talkie who discovers that masculine so they start to jump in the cockpit and they fight themselves sho do not bounce the lads jump as much as they fight there without MANPADS everything flies to the nines and how many years ago those people watched them , how those services did you go through our army in the 90s, but they didn’t end these 90s so far and the result is collapse and poverty, and who flies on these airplanes such as Lichko Klitschko is music and that’s the result.
  44. +4
    26 July 2014 10: 28
    the most hefty number of complexes, apparently supplied to the militias by Allah. :)))

    Yes, not Allah, but they themselves sell dill to them !!! laughing

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