Hovering around the couch

82
Hovering around the couch“Vanity around the couch” is the name of the first part of the Strugatsky brothers’s fantastic comic story “Monday Starts on Saturday” (1965)

Thanks to the Ukrainian crisis in international politics, a new subject of politics has emerged - SOFA. It is the subject. Because it is difficult to call an object the one who captured an order of magnitude more people than all the parties to the conflict, taken together, and the one who has his own "couch troops" and "couch strategists". There are calls from all sides: “Get off the sofa, start to fight against ...” And then the listing of what you have to fight against. Or even more radical calls: “Come and die.” But most of them captivated by the sofa do not respond to these calls. And further accusations of cowardice, indifference, etc. follow. Why is this happening?

Because each of the parties to the conflict in Ukraine has two main problems:

1. The lack of an IDEA that the people understand that they want to build FOR THE PEOPLE.

2. The absence of a leader capable of leading the process of achieving this future and achieving unity among the current "leaders." This is not surprising in the absence of an IDEA.

Simply put: people will prefer to remain in the captivity of the sofa until they see FOR WHAT they fight, and the leader for whom they are ready to go.

This answer is so obvious that all sides of the Ukrainian conflict are trying to divert attention from him in every way. And quite successfully. Please note that in almost all appeals to “get off the couch,” there is a call to join the fight AGAINST something. AGAINST "taiga union" or "geyropy", AGAINST "fascists" or "separatists", AGAINST "Right Sector" or "Russian troops", etc. But most ordinary people prefer to fight not against something, but for something. For example, FOR an idea, FOR a bright future, etc. Even the Russian language itself suggests: they do not say “die against something”, say “die for something”. And that's fine. Because it is human nature to be creative. After all, after the fight AGAINST the ruins. After that, the question still arises: “What are we going to build on this place”? That is, "FOR WHAT, in fact, we fought"? Therefore, people subconsciously strive to initially have an idea “FOR WHAT TO FIGHT” in order not to slip into the war of “all against all”.

And here all sides of the conflict begin big problems. To formulate an idea, FOR WHAT one must go die, no one succeeds. “Pro-European” forces are agitating for joining the European Union, “pro-Russian” for joining Russia. At the same time, none of them are embarrassed that the EU is not yet ready to offer Ukraine the prospect of membership in the union (as stated by European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso), and Russia is not going to join the south-east of Ukraine (as stated by Russian President Vladimir Putin). As a result, we have a wild picture: the Slavs kill each other - one for Europe (which says that they do not need it), and others for Russia (which also says that they do not need it).

And for the sake of participation in this idiocy, it is proposed to “get off the couch and go die”?

Ukrainians are constantly being told about the “European” future from all sides. Even if what they say is nonsense, but it is told persistently and for a long time, then this nonsense gradually penetrates people's brains (try to communicate with such “victims of the TV”). At the same time, the “pro-European” propaganda does not focus on the fact that “for Europe” we must go to war and die. The emphasis is on all sorts of quite “sofa” actions: transfer money somewhere, send SMS, go to wave a flag, etc. That is, the majority had the persistent feeling that you can move to Europe right on the couch. Like Emelya on the stove. Simple clear dream, sung in folk tales.

About the future of the South-East "pro-Russian" forces are somehow deafly silent. The initial cry “for joining Russia” was skillfully kicked off by Russia itself. And now the “pro-Russian” forces are trying to create several projects at once: “DNR”, “LNR”, and “Novorossiya”. That speaks about the lack of unity of "pro-Russian" forces, a plan of action and systematic assistance from Russia.

Accordingly, the IDEA regarding the arrangement of the Southeast is also incomprehensible. For example, it appeared on the Internet that Strelkov was a monarchist. That's interesting: how does he see the future of "people's" republics? What does the word “popular” mean in the name of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics? That the prevailing form of ownership will be public, and private will be allowed and tightly controlled? Or the fact that the people will again be given a toy called "elections", and let it be played while the rich uncles solve their problems? What will happen to the oligarchs? What will happen to the banks? Gubarev on the Internet announced the abolition of loan interest and the nationalization of enterprises. Whether this is his personal fantasies or is it public policy is not known. And a lot of unanswered questions. Just right to remind historical example: the first acts of the Bolsheviks were not a constitution, but decrees on peace and on land. The effect of these decrees was much greater than that of public disputes in the DPR - “privatize Akhmetov” or “respect private property”.

Meanwhile, the fighting intensifies, the number of victims increases. That is, there is a tough struggle FOR SOMETHING NOT AFFILIATED. And if no one tells the people, FOR WHAT FUTURE is the struggle, then this means that this future is not for the people. It seems that these are some kind of games of transnational corporations, special services, politicians, etc.

And at the same time the people are called to fight for this strange future ...

As for the leader, he is not on either side.

On the part of Ukraine, all the “leaders” have long been known to be flaky, so there is no point in wasting time discussing them. We can only say that they all have one thing in common, which will never give them the opportunity to become people's leaders. This is their value system, where personal enrichment comes first. And Ukraine, as a state, God forbid, to the second. Well, the Ukrainian people in this value system may be absent altogether.

On the part of the LPR, the DPR and Novorossia, the “leaders” are mostly new faces in politics, and little is still known about them.

The most “not new” and the most famous of them is Tsarev. To put it mildly, neither a speaker nor a thinker. In Dnepropetrovsk, he is well remembered by land deriban in the city and region. His business qualities can be judged at least by the fact that since his election as “head of state of Novorossia”, no of his decisions have been announced. Neither the organ nor the official website of the state has been created. How is the “head of state” going to inform his citizens about something? And the fact that the “head” of a belligerent state does not indulge his visits either by the militias or their commanders, also looks strange. Apparently, neither with them, nor with the leadership of the LC and the DPR, nor with Gubarev, does he add up. What then is he the head of? .. One can say that Tsarev is quite suitable to discredit and ruin the idea of ​​New Russia. Potentially, this is Yanukovych №2.

"People's Governor" Gubarev is the leader of the political movement "Novorossiya". Even Wikipedia doesn't know what it is. What he controls and who considers him to be their leader is not known.

Pushilin is famous for his statements, from which even the supporters of the DPR flinch. Now he nationalizes the good of Akhmetov, then he goes over to Russian legislation. His resignation is quite expected. As well as the kind words about him from Tsarev.

About Bolotov known even less.

“Muscovites” stand separately: Strelkov, Borodai, etc. In their behavior, capital arrogance towards the local “leaders” and the local population is already beginning to show through. Suffice it to recall two episodes, videos of which you can easily find on the Internet:

1. At one of the press conferences, Boroday so excitedly began to tell that no one called Gubarev and called him in any way, that Strelkov could not even stand it and asked not to disavow Gubarev at all, as he appointed him head of the mobilization department. “Oh, yes! ..” - Boroday and Strelkov were smiling at each other, demonstrating that in reality they were big uncles, warmed by an orphan.

2. At the end of the first “consultation” with Kuchma and Medvedchuk, when everyone had already risen, and Tsarev decided to say a few words in thanks to the participants, it was very clearly visible how the Beard companions defiantly turn their backs and leave against the background of the Tsarev speaker. Probably, the spin doctor has forgotten that you should not show disagreements between your people on camera, even if they exist.

And what kind of political strategist who does not appreciate the local cadres and is not trying to unleash the already ready local “leader”, and instead he is trying to become leaders? Tired of making rulers? Wanted to "reign"? Maybe for sobering it is necessary to remind that the beautiful word "political technologist" is translated into Russian as "an expert on brain-shaking the population"?

By the way, Premier LNR Basharov is also a Russian political consultant.

And it turns out that the Slavs from the "people's republics" under the leadership of the Russian "specialists in brain shaking" are fighting with other Slavs, who are led by Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk Jews.

Shooters and others often complain that the people are not in a hurry to join them in the militia. There is no popular war. And it will not work until they start talking with the people about their future, until the people see themselves in this future, until the people see that words do not diverge from their deeds. But so far everything goes to the fact that the people will soon get tired of this strange war of “Moscow” with “Dnepro-Kiev” and say in Shakespeare: “A plague on both your houses!” Then the “Batka” will start to appear, the gang of “green” (not environmentalists), and chaos will begin. From which, perhaps, a new people's leader will emerge with an idea that is understandable to the people, which the “brainwashing specialists” could not give birth to.

What is happening in Ukraine is a tragedy for all Slavs. But an attempt to solve the Ukrainian problem with unsuitable means, an attempt to “fish in troubled waters, is a shot into the future of the entire Slavic world. A shot at our children and grandchildren.

It is necessary to speak directly and clearly to the people, FOR WHAT the Southeast is fighting. Not only in order to explain, but also for current “leaders” to publicly commit themselves. What future do they undertake to build? The people should see every day how the “leader” keeps his word. And so that the "leader" could not start telling that he "did not say that".

The distinctive features of a national leader are the ability to publicly take on clear and unequivocal obligations towards the future of the people, and the ability to achieve their fulfillment. Will current “leaders” grow up to this?
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

82 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. -7
    26 July 2014 07: 20
    Kiev you need to take! got it already .. What for do we need an Army? ..Humble again, I’m already tired of perceiving all this and trying to understand! Enough to mock my genes is already twisting from all th .. and that pour on us ..
    1. +18
      26 July 2014 08: 10
      I think that in addition to everything else, there is a strong position of the GDP not to send troops! When, quite a long time ago, in an interview, he answered questions, said, I give an excerpt:

      "- Was the entry of the Warsaw Pact troops into Hungary in 56th and Czechoslovakia in 68th also a large-scale mistake?
      - You forgot that in Germany in 53rd we also used force. These were major mistakes in my opinion. And the Russophobia that we have today in Eastern Europe is just the fruit of those mistakes. "

      This is a position and it could, of course, change over time, but it seems unlikely! It is possible he has another option for solving this problem, but his time has not come yet!
      1. +12
        26 July 2014 09: 00
        1. The lack of an IDEA that the people understand that they want to build FOR THE PEOPLE.

        Going to Europe, dissolving in it is not an idea. On the Maidan they shouted: “We are against the scoop!” They are not aware that it is difficult to imagine larger scoops than they are. Who is a scoop? This is a dependent who dreams of three hundred varieties of sausage in the West. The dream of clean asphalt, of jeans in every store, of paid toilets. It still lives in them.
      2. +4
        26 July 2014 15: 29
        Yes, go ahead, keep pushing retreat ideas under all the sauces you can. Personally, I, even if the slightest lice of the Western information war, I would recommend the curators in advance for years to stamp profiles, including on this site, and gain a rating with stupid slogans of hurray-patriotism. But, at a critical and really important moment, to turn the opinion of members of the forum with massed smart-ass insenuations from many profiles.
        Do not la-la!
        The USSR, leading expansion in the world, subjugated half the world !!! And it was the proponents of groveling before the West, traitors and defeatists, who dragged and sold it!
        Here I watch the majority become supporters of the retreat. Or maybe all the same, not retreat, but stupidity ?!
        Of course, on the other hand, I understand the voiced "we will act carefully, but strongly" - as Putin said. However, personally, in my opinion, Russia needs more rigidity.
    2. +13
      26 July 2014 08: 13
      hi
      Quote: MIKHAN
      "Couch troops" and "couch strategists." There are calls from all sides: "Get off the couch, start fighting against ..."


      Guys, what’s he calling names? A joke, of course. hi But seriously, only Igor Ivanovich does not need to be touched. There is a war where everything is not perfect. In the post-war arrangement, democratic free and popular elections will show who the people trust.
      1. ed65b
        +5
        26 July 2014 09: 49
        I agree with Anatoly that while the war is on and the fierce struggle on its territory is clearly not up to decrees, sites and other things, the task now is to survive and win, and plans have already been announced, ALL UKRAINE, and then you can think about how to continue living in a new Ukraine. And Russia will help.
        1. +3
          26 July 2014 10: 36
          Quote: ed65b
          plans have already been announced, ALL UKRAINE

          We love the world, we need peace ... and preferably all !!! (c) L.I. Brezhnev.
        2. +9
          26 July 2014 11: 44
          Quote: ed65b
          I agree with Anatoly that while the war is on and the fierce struggle on its territory is clearly not up to decrees, sites and other things, the task now is to survive and win, and plans have already been announced, ALL UKRAINE, and then you can think about how to continue living in a new Ukraine. And Russia will help.

          Moreover, Russia itself, with its oligarchic capitalism, does not promise a "bright future" to the masses, about whom the author is concerned. All the leaders of the state fawned at the West diligently. What have you achieved? ... The author shouldn't have discredited the leaders of Novorossiya. There is a war going on. War with the West, but in which the Slavs perish on both sides. Why is that? Because in our country, in Russia, ruled by those who have long put personal good in the first place, it is good - if Russia is in second place, and the people ... - "what" is the people for the oligarchs ?! With this - the state of affairs in Russia itself, and the author had to start. Both the non-recognition of the DPR and LPR, and the statements about the impossibility of including the People's Republics in the constituent entities of the Russian Federation would be more understandable. And the fact that Strelkov is a monarchist is wonderful! For he knows: the Russian Monarch will never make Russia a payment for membership in Western "Masonic hangouts"! And, at least until he wins, he will achieve power sufficient to neutralize this "world government."
          1. PPIC4
            -1
            27 July 2014 02: 11
            This is the Gundyaists and the "Drozdovites" to tell about bad Masons! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I5bFwGTnDI
      2. +9
        26 July 2014 12: 43
        The point is not in war, but in the fact that the people really have no clarity. Volunteers from the Russian Federation know what they are fighting for — they are fighting against the Natsiks. And the locals don’t know who they should fight for. It is clear that when they begin to bomb them, they try either to run away or to go to war against those who kill them. But on their own they do not know why they should go to kill the same ukrov as they, with whom they lived together only six months ago. We need a single political leader who they believe and who is local. We need clear guidelines - what are they going to build and clear slogans - well, there is communism in 20 years or for every woman of a man, and for every man a tank of vodka. And now even with military subordination it is not clear, not to mention the political. The leaders are incomprehensible, the goals too, the vertical of power is unclear. I can offer only one platform - to declare that the goal is to strive in the Russian Federation, like the Crimea. This is at least some kind of landmark for the people. In general, we need a leader and clear answers to questions - what are we going to build. As for the leader, of course, it is more complicated and hardly popular figures will want to take it upon themselves, but all of a sudden.
        1. DMB-88
          +6
          26 July 2014 13: 44
          Quote: g1v2
          I can offer only one platform - to declare that the goal is to strive in the Russian Federation, like the Crimea. This is at least some kind of landmark for the people. In general, we need a leader and clear answers to questions - what are we going to build. As for the leader, of course, it is more complicated and hardly popular figures will want to take it upon themselves, but all of a sudden.

          I will ask a non-negligible question, which state is or is being built in the Russian Federation? I think that the Union of the DPR and LPR have a social, i.e. socialist background, and as such, the Russian elite do not need them. It's like sitting on a barrel of gunpowder and holding a torch to it. The revolution is contagious, especially since the class struggle in Russia has not stopped yet and there are more people who are not satisfied with the current state system than it seems.
          “You can deceive part of the people all the time.
          You can fool all the people for a while.
          But you can’t lie to the whole people all the time. "
          Abraham Lincoln.

          I’m not ashamed of these words: Socialism, Internationalism, Freedom, Equality, Fraternity - that is what will liberate us from further wars. But this is worth fighting!
          1. +9
            26 July 2014 14: 23
            Really free from war, because there will be no one to fight. The class struggle in the Russian Federation in the near future, if it will be, only in the dreams of Eddie Limonov. If I were called to the barricades in 1999, I would go, now FIG. In Novorossia, no state government has yet been built, but only indicated. If you consider it a springboard for the overthrow of power in the Russian Federation, then why do you demand GDP to help her? I know that many National Bolsheviks and monarchists left there and it seems to me that they will not be allowed back. For 100 years there have been 4 revolutions in Russia, which cost us a quarter of the territory and millions of lives. And then I had to tear the veins in order to build a house again from a burnt hut. I believe that anyone who calls for a revolution in the Russian Federation is an ENEMY and must be physically destroyed. You can minus me or pour me mud, but I know one thing - no one can defeat us, except for ourselves and our enemies have learned this. Therefore, Russia is always damaged by the hands of the Russians themselves. We almost lost the country in 1918-1930, in the 90s and now we have barely lifted it from the ruins. No matter how we laugh at dill, it is Russia without normal leadership. If you want a revolution in the Russian Federation, look at Ukraine, this is an example of your victory.
            1. DMB-88
              +2
              26 July 2014 14: 47
              Quote: g1v2
              If I were called to the barricades in 1999, I would go, now figs

              barricades themselves will come to you!

              Quote: g1v2
              If you want a revolution in the Russian Federation, look at Ukraine, this is an example of your victory.


              Do you support such wild capitalism?
              what is there to talk about .. of course "-"
              But thanks for the reasonable position.
            2. +1
              26 July 2014 15: 15
              Quote: g1v2
              I believe that anyone who calls for a revolution in the Russian Federation is an ENEMY and must be physically destroyed. You can minus me or pour me mud

              You are confusing "revolution" and "coup".
              Socio-political conditions for the start of revolutionary processes are always prepared by the authorities themselves with their mediocre anti-people and anti-social policies.
              The very term "revolution" implies the cleansing of the state mechanism of power from rotten elements and the establishment of a new progressive social system.
              But in 91, the rotten top of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, instead of revolutionizing the dilapidated state mechanism, carried out a TURNOUT that led to the collapse of the superpower, civil wars, irreparable economic damage and the fragment of the USSR - Russia becoming a raw materials appendage of the West.
              1. +4
                26 July 2014 16: 23
                Do not simplify. Of course, everyone likes to think that only power is to blame, but I well remember the end of the 80s and the beginning of the 90s and rallies against the Communist Party and the KGB. I remember Palace Square in 1991 and how everyone screamed that it was necessary to eliminate the power of the Communists and the KGB and then life would come, as in the series. It was and it was just about the same as on the Maidan. Fooled by l-oh-hs and their revolutions and rallies break their country, and smart uncles rub their hands and figure out the possibilities. Revolution means a change of formation with the help of popular discontent, and a coup means a change in the leadership. The country was destroyed using popular discontent at the top of the Communist Party. I then said that this would lead only to ruin, but everyone said that I don’t understand and that after the destruction of the union a new union agreement will be signed and paradise will come, and the west will help us. And now everyone says that they didn’t say this, and when I quote their conversations then they are denied. Any attempt to use popular discontent is beneficial to the amers and leads to the defeat of the Russian Federation, no matter what the campaign will be for peace, socialism, internationalism, freedom, equality, fraternity or Russia for Russians, or urine lesson, or to take away and share - the differences as a result no . Therefore, I will not go to the barricades, but if they come to me, I will fight against any attempts at revolution or coup. Maidowns were brought up with beautiful slogans - Ukraine against corruption, oligarchs and for the European choice. And what is the result of these slogans? Here it is. When I told the maydauns that they were being used, they also said that I did not understand anything, and they were fighting for freedom and bright ideals. You guys are the same, you just don’t see it. The slogans are beautiful and different, but the result is one.
                1. 0
                  28 July 2014 13: 52
                  Yes, these bought little people would come out yelling down with the Communist Party and the KGB - if they had not been financed by the same West, namely the United States! you look at the effect and see the reason for it! after several years of systematic deterioration of life in the country from the 85th year to the end of the 80s - of course there were quite a lot of dissatisfied - but they were still much fewer than those satisfied with the Soviet regime, which was confirmed by the referendum in March 91st, with which the internal paid enemies first wanted to break up the USSR - but the referendum showed that the vast majority of the population was not at all against the fact that they live in the great USSR — so the paid gentlemen had to think further how to break up the Union — and only by the end of the year could they do it.
                  But it could not have happened if several people had enough political will in this struggle of the enemy forces inside the country and at the head of the USSR and at the head of the three fundamental republics! - but no - not enough. and the USSR was destroyed by order of the United States by the hands of those who were born and raised with it.
    3. +3
      26 July 2014 09: 02
      The woman showed an example of courage. How to tourniquet in Dnepropetrovsk.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igzuS7YBkvs#t=196
    4. dyremar 66
      +6
      26 July 2014 10: 03
      what is Novorossia fighting for? for freedom from the Nazis for their lives at last. and if the inhabitants do not understand this, it will be repenting later, the Old Man and the green are not the reg.armia dnr
    5. +2
      26 July 2014 10: 19
      You need to think before you act. The people are actively fighting mainly for a good life.
    6. -1
      26 July 2014 12: 47
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Enough to mock my genes is already twisting from all th .. and that pour on us ..


      Can you imagine how the American rotten gut is twisted from the Russian silence? laughing
      1. 0
        26 July 2014 13: 54
        In some, genes are inverted, in others, inside ... But people continue to die.
    7. +4
      26 July 2014 14: 17
      MIKHAN
      Kiev you need to take! got it already .. What for do we need an Army? ..Humble again, I’m already tired of perceiving all this and trying to understand!

      Some "couch" strategists who received their generals and marshal's shoulder straps with slogans like "Kiev must be taken!" Who and how did you, sitting in front of the computer, get or humiliate you? From the perception of what, I wonder, are you so tired and what are you trying so hard to understand? Is it really such a simple truth as "Nafig we need an Army?" Let me explain. The army is needed for the armed defense of the state from an external enemy and, as an advanced case, supplemented by the creation of a threat to an external enemy. The army is a factor in the survival of the state and the preservation of independence. This implies the conclusion that in the absence of an immediate threat to the state, i.e. an attack by an external enemy with the aim of seizing its territory or destroying its citizens, by a peace-loving state, the army cannot be used under any pretext. So calm your genes and don't worry so much. A good remedy for anxiety is to visit the VO site less often.
    8. +1
      26 July 2014 15: 22
      I agree, at one time, when Yanukovych was still in Ukraine, I think the scenario of mobilization of anti-Maidan forces was quite possible. And these forces were very powerful throughout Ukraine, at least the same Party of Regions, at least anyone else, including those now fighting in the Donbass. And the Golden Eagle was still not dispersed, and the Armed Forces of Ukraine had to obey Yanukovych, as well as the internal troops. But, such a scenario to whom it seemed to be worthless. Although the pro-American forces were not weak to knead for their part. And the strengthening of the junta throughout Ukraine owes to the views of the defeatists and the retreating, who are still retreating and are still minus here, and are conducting all their agitation. No one in the world is more pissing than Russia - neither Israel, nor Saudis and Turkey in Syria, nor even the United States. No one, no one and no one in the whole world pisses how Russia can defend its rights! Or is this not the case ?! Well, then it's just a 5-column and betrayal. Weak and defeatist positions of Russia we owe to the billions of those of our oligarchs whose loot is abroad, and who finance the opinion of wise propagandists such as Soloviev and other lobby pretending to be patriotic. I admit, I myself am interested in listening to Solovyov and he arouses convincing confidence in his rhetoric, but for some reason all the people there are talking about the fact that Russia should give in and not get involved. Let Israel call for it better, so as not to get involved in Gaza. But, no one dares to criticize Israel. They attacked Israel and it will tumble down the Lyuli. Russia should do the same.
      It's disgusting to watch all this betrayal. At the same time, the United States does not even interfere with the adoption of sanctions against Russia. Russia should act by force and ultimatums, and not by persuasion, which everyone does not give a damn about.
    9. +1
      26 July 2014 16: 02
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Kiev you need to take! got it already .. What for do we need an Army?

      support you. But I look we are in the minority. Pink eyelids predominate. Of course, it's easier to live this way. It is more convenient to simply “believe in Putin” and his “cunning plans”.
      And to hell with this swamp. The sad experience of the Maidan and the heroic experience of Novorossiya showed that History is made by realists who are ready to die FOR their faith and people. And not these, which "no-need-to-send-troops" and "America-wants-to-incite us"
      1. ed65b
        +1
        26 July 2014 17: 36
        I do not agree with Magadan and Vitali. I have always been against the entry of troops into Ukraine.
        So, guys, just 5 minutes ago I had a smoke with a friend who on Thursday took his relatives to the Donetsk-Izvarino checkpoint. He has several relatives in the militias, who accompanied relatives to the border, and then temporarily crossed with them and returned back. Impressions after drinking tea with them for the meeting are as follows:
        1. help is coming, this is confirmed by the militias and the comrade himself saw a damn cloud of KAMAZ trucks that are coming to the border, some of them are without numbers, some are generally zero, and some are already well-knit.
        2. the militia themselves are dressed and shod very soundly, and they prefer not our new "figure" but either the American "lump" or our old flora, because they say that in the steppe everything burned out and our “figure” stands out against the general background, like a turd in a sugar bowl.
        3. instructors - there are, no more comments.
        4. the cries of dill about the fact that they are ironed on both sides of the border, to the great surprise, were not only speculations of the nerd Tymchuk. As my friend understood, we are talking about neutral, the so-called zero buffer zones at the border, from where all this is naughty.
        5. In principle, the guys have a normal mood, at least did not notice any depression, drank only for victory.
        6. on our side, the border is on the castle and the karatsup is not asleep - our turntables are constantly flying through the air with the VMG on board, the border is low along the perimeter.
        7. about the lack of masses in the militia - according to the militias themselves - the more dill they hammer in mines that are forced to close (transformers and mines are de-energized), the more volunteer miners join the ranks of the militias.
        8. the overwhelming majority of the militias are still from Ukraine
        9. the guys ate American rations, and lit their native American cigarettes.
        In general, if short, that's all. Especially from the story I was pleased with the items 3 and 4. Point 4 is generally a dump of the head, in the good sense of the word.
        there is someone without our guys, let them practice.
        1. 0
          28 July 2014 14: 09
          well dude, well done that I talked with such people and heard such information - but there is such a thing - military secret! -That you merge Russia!
      2. +1
        26 July 2014 20: 54
        Quote: Magadan
        But I look in the minority. Rosecells prevail.

        No pink glasses! It’s just that Russia didn’t rest against the bolt. At first it was wild to see how it developed And when the shooting started, too And now I began to spit deeply at all this dill fucking They wate each other well and God help them The main thing is to keep our borders under control Yes and more about fraternities, etc. Russians live in Russia. Citizens of foreign states are, at best, Russian-speaking. And it looks like Putin and the government also understand this
    10. -3
      26 July 2014 17: 21
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Kiev you need to take! got it already .. What for do we need an Army?

      I support it, although Wasserman’s idea of ​​averting the majority of the electorate away from power by feeling the junta’s economic policy and for whom the people are going to die and why is justified. For a quick victory will only exacerbate national patriotism and the same Bendery underground, rather than fighting it for decades, it’s better to strangle it in the bud, while supporting SE in an indelible form, because it will be followed by another surge of national patriotism and a trip to the Crimea.
      For a long-running illness (more than 23 years, because already under Gorbi the propaganda of a single community of the Soviet people was poher), long-term treatment is necessary.
    11. sams
      +2
      27 July 2014 00: 17
      it’s time for many wise men in the Russian Federation to understand that tomorrow everything will be as an adult.
      there is no need to hope for the "great and infallible".
      our future is in our hands.
      1. Vik.Tor
        0
        27 July 2014 12: 01
        And some are always pleased when others think for them, and he seems to be on the sidelines and in any case is not to blame for anything, if nothing is done, such people respond that they should, without giving any other argument. and not mindlessly believe in others.
  2. +3
    26 July 2014 07: 27
    It is necessary to directly and clearly tell the people FOR WHAT the Southeast is fighting.


    A rhetorical question! YES FOR THAT there was no Fascism in all its manifestations !!! YES FOR NO more wars !!! YES FOR people to live not under the bombings and bombs !!! YES FOR THAT the National Guard did not knock on the door and do not shoot civilians !!! YET or enough !!!
    Ahtor, are you not sitting in the Rada, not far from the eggs and others with such views?
    1. +10
      26 July 2014 08: 27
      Quote: aszzz888
      It is necessary to directly and clearly tell the people FOR WHAT the Southeast is fighting.


      A rhetorical question! YES FOR THAT there was no Fascism in all its manifestations !!! YES FOR NO more wars !!! YES FOR people to live not under the bombings and bombs !!! YES FOR THAT the National Guard did not knock on the door and do not shoot civilians !!! YET or enough !!!
      Ahtor, are you not sitting in the Rada, not far from the eggs and others with such views?

      You still do not understand what is written in the article.
      Re-read twenty more.

      The article is quite competent and objective.
      The hostilities in Donbas were provoked by criminal politicians on both sides. And the people do not understand why they are bombed and killed, and none of the "politicians" can clearly explain to the people. So the people prefer to run in all directions, but not join the militia. Of the seven million population, there are about three thousand militias, of which half are Russian volunteers.

      In 1917, the Bolsheviks voiced the slogan "land - to peasants, factories - to workers" and the people smeared landlords and manufacturers on the wall.
      And what do the Donetsk "leaders" promise to the people?
      Go shed blood in the fight against Kiev fascism, and then after the victory to go under the new oligarchs?
      1. -1
        26 July 2014 09: 37
        Quote: Polar
        In 1917, the Bolsheviks voiced the slogan "land - to peasants, factories - to workers" and the people smeared landlords and manufacturers on the wall.

        And did not receive no factories, no factories laughing But they arranged a civil warrior, hunger and a lot of blood.
        Quote: Polar
        Go shed blood in the fight against Kiev fascism, and then after the victory to go under the new oligarchs?

        That's right, you should not fight for their land Novorossiya. fool fool fool
        1. +2
          26 July 2014 09: 44
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          And did not receive no factories, no factories

          Well, then, what are they - the workers worked after the civil? The property was considered public
          1. -1
            26 July 2014 10: 50
            and also we have the most humane court in the world
          2. +1
            26 July 2014 12: 24
            Quote: saag
            The property was considered public

            It was considered, well, yes, yes laughing But in fact, everything belonged to the state and as a result, there was no competition in the country, as a result of which we all chased western clothes, magnetophones and everything else.
            Only the Communists do not say that it wasn’t. The top was dressed in everything imported and smoked Marlboro, not Prima.
            1. +2
              26 July 2014 12: 26
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              But in fact everything belonged to the state

              And what is the state then? While?
            2. +1
              26 July 2014 13: 38
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Quote: saag
              The property was considered public

              It was considered, well, yes, yes laughing But in fact, everything belonged to the state and as a result, there was no competition in the country, as a result of which we all chased western clothes, magnetophones and everything else.
              Only the Communists do not say that it wasn’t. The top was dressed in everything imported and smoked Marlboro, not Prima.

              You then, of course, chased after rags and Marlboros, joined the Komsomol and farthed, dreamed of getting into the "top" Mr. Imperial.

              Well, speak only for yourself, and not "all of us", because the people worked, the USSR was a superpower and did not sell non-renewable raw materials, but was building the world's second economy. There was no civil war in Ukraine.
              And so it was until farcers leaked to power, eager to wear molted jeans on their asses and smoke marlboro
              "There was no competition in the country" - well, and idiot, God forgive me, is still trying to talk about the organization of the economy
        2. -2
          26 July 2014 13: 31
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Quote: Polar
          In 1917, the Bolsheviks voiced the slogan "land - to peasants, factories - to workers" and the people smeared landlords and manufacturers on the wall.

          And did not receive no factories, no factories laughing But they arranged a civil warrior, hunger and a lot of blood.
          Quote: Polar
          Go shed blood in the fight against Kiev fascism, and then after the victory to go under the new oligarchs?

          That's right, you should not fight for their land Novorossiya. fool fool fool

          Regarding the history of the USSR and the civil war, you are a complete ignoramus, and you are terribly proud of it, Mr. Imperial.
          Regarding the theories of the social structure of the state, you are generally dense, like a Neanderthal man.

          Do you propose that Donetsk residents fight in order and die for the lands and factories of Firtash, Yanukovych and Akhmetov?
          Why don't you go to Donetsk and explain this to stupid residents of Donbass?
          1. -1
            26 July 2014 15: 26
            Quote: Polar

            Regarding the history of the USSR and the civil war, you are a complete ignoramus, and you are terribly proud of it, Mr. Imperial.

            It is better to be proud of the Empire than a Judas brought by the Germans in a sealed carriage.
            Quote: Polar
            Do you propose that Donetsk residents fight in order and die for the lands and factories of Firtash, Yanukovych and Akhmetov?

            What are you ***** fool
      2. +6
        26 July 2014 09: 45
        In 1917, the peasants did not receive land, and the workers did not receive factories. All were taken by the Jews from the CPSU (b). That is, the people were simply deceived. If the land were given to the peasants, then there would be no peasant uprisings, brutally suppressed by punitive detachments, if the factories were given, there would be no mass accusations of the elite of workers and engineers of counterrevolution and camps. Why are we not learning anything? Half of the site dreams of throwing off the "bloody Putin regime", as the Russian intelligentsia once dreamed of throwing off the "bloody tsar" who signed only 8 or 10 death sentences during his entire reign. So, what is next? In 1917, the Russian people did not know where their comrades Lenin and Trotsky would lead them. But we know that! And if not for Stalin, there would be neither Russia nor the USSR! Because the first two worked for the world system of Zionist bankers, and they destroy everything for profit. This is what we see now in Ukraine. How much you can call to the past _it is irrevocable! If we want to create happiness for people, we must learn from the past - autocracy, war communism, socialism and modern capitalism. And look for something optimal. But the trouble is that not a single politician seems to know WHAT should be created in order not to repeat the mistakes of history. Even sitting on the couch. And when the "hail" shells fall on your head, when the bullets whistle past, it is difficult to think about the distracted. One thought in my head: if only to survive, if only to win! I cannot say that I sympathize in the leadership of Novorossia with someone other than Igor Ivanovich (for whom, by the way, they pray in almost all churches in Russia), but other leaders, except those who are now trying to defend Donbass - and by the way, you and I - from the fascist invasion, while something is not visible. They risk a year. And thanks to them for that.
        1. +2
          26 July 2014 09: 59
          [quote = samuil60] All the Jews took away from the CPSU (b) [/ quote]
          quote = samuil60] And, if not for Stalin [/ quote]
          And what did Stalin do with the Jews, for example with Kaganovich? No need to tell garbage here, in general Ordzhonikidze was in charge of industry, they like to raise the Jewish question on the site here
        2. +2
          26 July 2014 13: 52
          Quote: samuil60
          In 1917, peasants did not receive land, and workers did not receive factories. All the Jews took away from the CPSU (b). That is, people were simply deceived.

          Well, tell me how many and what kind of Jews, or even neuevrev owned private factories and plants in the USSR?
          And tell me how many Jews now own entire sectors of the Russian economy?
          What class drove you out of school?
      3. -1
        26 July 2014 10: 59
        "land - to peasants, factories - to workers"
        And also: "peace-to-people", "bread-hungry". They promised EVERYWHERE, EVERYONE and EVERYTHING, just to seize power.
        Having seized, they then made the land state, and the peasants - serfs without passport collective farmers. They immediately tried to take away the bread by surplus appropriation, and then by collectivization, giving rise to the Holodomor. Instead of peace, the "peoples" were offered a "revolutionary liberation struggle" and provoked with the help of the Comintern wherever they could. The dissatisfied everyone was declared "enemies of the people", partly shot, and the rest were taken to concentration camps. This is the price for revolutionary promises.
        In New Russia the ultimate goal of resistance is named and a program to achieve it is given. Resistance to punishers - this is no longer enough. The punishers will be swept away, and then what?
        1. +3
          26 July 2014 12: 08
          Quote: Naum
          After capturing, they later made state land, and the peasants - serfs without passport farmers. They immediately tried to select the bread by the surplus apportionment, and then collectivization, giving rise to the Holodomor.

          At first they gave the land (the time of the NEP), then when the bourgeois agreed to sell the goods he needed to the USSR, but they only said they had to pay with grain and gold, they had to consolidate the land of misery - collectivization, so that it was possible to collect a larger crop in one hand, by the way about the famines, America was also hungry in the 30s, did the USSR try it too?
          Quote: Naum
          Instead of peace, the "peoples" were offered a "revolutionary liberation struggle" and provoked with the help of the Comintern wherever they could.

          This is where they provoked, the Japanese attack on China, the Nazi attack on Spain or the Italian attack on Abyssinia? Or the Nazi German attack on the USSR?
      4. +4
        26 July 2014 12: 12
        polar (4) RU Today, 08: 27 ↑ New

        Quote: aszzz888
        It is necessary to directly and clearly tell the people FOR WHAT the Southeast is fighting.


        A rhetorical question! YES FOR THAT there was no Fascism in all its manifestations !!! YES FOR NO more wars !!! YES FOR people to live not under the bombings and bombs !!! YES FOR THAT the National Guard did not knock on the door and do not shoot civilians !!! YET or enough !!!
        Ahtor, are you not sitting in the Rada, not far from the eggs and others with such views?

        You still do not understand what is written in the article.
        Re-read twenty more.

        The article is quite competent and objective.
        The hostilities in Donbas were provoked by criminal politicians on both sides. And the people do not understand why they are bombed and killed, and none of the "politicians" can clearly explain to the people. So the people prefer to run in all directions, but not join the militia. Of the seven million population, there are about three thousand militias, of which half are Russian volunteers.

        In 1917, the Bolsheviks voiced the slogan "land - to peasants, factories - to workers" and the people smeared landlords and manufacturers on the wall.
        And what do the Donetsk "leaders" promise to the people?
        Go shed blood in the fight against Kiev fascism, and then after the victory to go under the new oligarchs?

        Yes, both are right. And for a world without fascism, criminal politicians unleashed. And one of the mistakes is the lack of propaganda. Although all media are accused of this. It is necessary to carry ideas to the masses with the help of commissars. Yes Yes. Not at the front. They already understand, but in the yards, in the factories, in the queue for the store.
        1. +1
          26 July 2014 13: 59
          Quote: aleks700

          Yes, both are right. And for a world without fascism, criminal politicians unleashed. And one of the mistakes is the lack of propaganda. Although all media are accused of this. It is necessary to carry ideas to the masses with the help of commissars. Yes Yes. Not at the front. They already understand, but in the yards, in the factories, in the queue for the store.

          All right. We need a propaganda apparatus and commissars who will bring to the people such ideas that the people will support and understand why they call him to shed blood.
          1. nvv
            nvv
            -1
            26 July 2014 14: 36
            Quote: Polar
            Quote: aleks700

            Yes, both are right. And for a world without fascism, criminal politicians unleashed. And one of the mistakes is the lack of propaganda. Although all media are accused of this. It is necessary to carry ideas to the masses with the help of commissars. Yes Yes. Not at the front. They already understand, but in the yards, in the factories, in the queue for the store.

            All right. We need a propaganda apparatus and commissars who will bring to the people such ideas that the people will support and understand why they call him to shed blood.

            Commissars? Jews again? How can?!!!!
      5. +3
        26 July 2014 18: 51
        Absolutely agree. There is a fratricidal war for the joy of world capital. And the greater the emotional intensity, the less clarity what comes next. It is quite obvious that people's republics are only in words they are. And it is not clear what is being done for the formation of statehood or not. We say we must admit! And there is nothing to recognize! And people are dying! Trouble!
    2. dyremar 66
      +2
      26 July 2014 10: 05
      Yes, it looks like the State Department PR
  3. +10
    26 July 2014 07: 28
    Got it already! Say Thank you to "Divanny Voiskam" otherwise our media would have merged long ago.
    1. +3
      26 July 2014 07: 34
      Quote: Buran
      Got it already! Say Thank you to "Divanny Voiskam" otherwise our media would have merged long ago.

      The sofa has long been broken ..)) and the leg hurts (kicked into the wall) on the monitor the band is bloody (tapped) ... We got it already ... And our media would send everyone to the front line to understand what was happening .. (balabakh tries ..)
  4. +10
    26 July 2014 07: 32
    It’s not a popular war. And it will not work out until they start talking with the people about their future, until the people see themselves in this future, until the people see that the words do not diverge from the deed.

    Damn, the junta shoots people out of all types of weapons, burns phosphorus, starves it, and people don’t see their future, they don’t understand what awaits them. Those who did not go to Strelkov were mobilized into the junta’s army.
  5. +3
    26 July 2014 07: 33
    the author — you lie — did not push away the new republics from you, but the government — and this is just a gigantic difference. The authorities need to not shoot at ukroin, it should be a whole state — to do business with it, that is, continue to subsidize gas at our expense and write off debts to endure fascist cesspools, people don’t need it! we do not want to see scum with different profiled emblems in our country, we don’t want to feed the parosite country again. the authorities of New Russia, let them figure it out for themselves
    1. +2
      26 July 2014 10: 54
      Speaking of emblems. Flag of New Russia Remember what it looks like? Now search for the Confederate flag. Interesting? Some blue mutant is visible on the flag of New Russia. It seems to be a two-headed as in Russia. But take out a 10 ruble coin from your pocket and take a look at our eagle. Now find the drawing with the American eagle. How?
      After I looked at these pictures in the morning, I really don’t understand who is fighting for what.
      1. nvv
        nvv
        0
        27 July 2014 03: 08
        Gardamir. You look at the root.
    2. 0
      26 July 2014 18: 46
      the author — you lie — did not push the new republics away from you — not Russia — but power — and it's just a gigantic difference
      Question. And who is there sorting out where Russia is and where the people of Russia are. This is what we see here, and there everything is one.
  6. +9
    26 July 2014 07: 33
    This article raised good, I would even say key questions - "what are the sides fighting for" and "what will happen after the war." Yes, it is not entirely clear what will happen next, but I will assume (from the sofa it is so convenient to analyze). The South-East is not fighting for joining Russia, but for the opportunity to continue to work and live, because almost all of its city-forming enterprises are "sharpened" for Russian needs in key industrial areas. The people of the southeast are aware that the southeast is an industrial part of Ukraine, that is, a part that is not only autonomous, but also capable of closing financial holes in the country's economy and budget. What then? Will stand, and the country of Russia will give any promotion (on acceptable terms). The western part of Ukraine ripped off the southeast as sticky, but after the Maidan, the people of the southeast realized that they had no place in the new political course and were simply buried alive.
    But that’s why the west of Ukraine is fighting, for me the darkness, because it does not lend itself to any logic and analytics.
    1. +5
      26 July 2014 19: 26
      what is fighting the west of Ukraine

      For the right to "live a yak in Europi". Heard enough fairy tales, seen enough being in Gaster "European" bright facades and dreamed! Simply - a militant nonsense reigned. "Let us renounce the old world, shake its dust from our feet!" And they renounced, and turned their Fatherland into dust, but they did not learn any lessons and again stick to the same rake ...
      Urge. proving that something, even the most obvious, is fucking useless. I like this anecdote: two godfathers are sitting. "Well, yak are your dila, Vasyl?" - "That is so good, Petro ..." - "Why is it so sumno (sad)?" - "That squad (wife) at Warsaw's panivy floors, the little girl at Paris on the panel pratsuye (works), and the son at Holland's wiping out ..." Kazaly to us, sho so vse and bude. They knew, damn it, that we were all opposite to them, zealous! "This is how they are now" opposite "Russia to their ears. And a lot of other things. They have to go this way to the end, so that they themselves, frostbitten and hungry, trembling and whining, crawled to the threshold Russia, and we'll see.
  7. +4
    26 July 2014 07: 38
    The leadership of the People’s Republics of Donbass spends most of its energy on the struggle, and as often happens it doesn’t place the proper emphasis on politics and economy. To deal with the Nazis. And for good, for a long time it was necessary to nationalize mines, factories, steamboats ... What a help for a young republic, how many weapons and ammunition can be bought
    1. +6
      26 July 2014 07: 48
      Quote: vonWolfenstein
      The leadership of the People’s Republics of Donbass spends most of its energy on the struggle, and as often happens it doesn’t place the proper emphasis on politics and economy. To deal with the Nazis. And for good, for a long time it was necessary to nationalize mines, factories, steamboats ... What a help for a young republic, how many weapons and ammunition can be bought

      Dear what nationalization, Donetsk and Lugansk are fired from the city .. They are repulsed as they can .. men! There already everything that can be destroyed!
      1. dyremar 66
        -1
        26 July 2014 10: 09
        in fact, they are struggling with all their might, it’s just not enough to talk about a better life like a bumbarash about golden water closets
    2. MAG
      +1
      26 July 2014 12: 25
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH-BdpHf7jg&feature=player_detailpage
  8. 0
    26 July 2014 07: 47
    Well, maybe you need to fight the DNI and LC for your land. For the murdered children, For that murdered woman (mother, wife) in Lugansk. For burned people in Odessa. So that this does not happen again, no where and no when. Yes, in order to choose how to live on.
  9. RUSLAT
    +5
    26 July 2014 07: 55
    I didn’t even read the complete nonsense in this article! What idiocy to share the skin of a dead bear? These articles are intended to bring about a split in Novorossia so that paper people are not about protecting their land from families and homes, but about some mythical plans for the future. Just like the essays in 1918 ........ First, the aggressor must be destroyed, and only then, through a referendum, decide the future of the state.
  10. +3
    26 July 2014 07: 56
    Now - with a real balance of forces and resources of the opposing parties - not FOR WHAT, but AGAINST WHAT !!!

    It is possible and necessary to engage in politics and state building! - not under the fire of hail and hurricanes ... beneath it, you won’t send an SMS message on the phone (I couldn’t), and you won’t get the text in the comment on your computer ... Try it yourself!
  11. +8
    26 July 2014 08: 00
    The main thing is to urgently block all sewer canals in Kiev, so that the collective Kristobal Khozevich JUNTA could not leak through them, as usual, when it smells fried. smile
  12. +3
    26 July 2014 08: 01
    Quote: RUSLAT
    I didn’t even read the complete nonsense in this article! What idiocy to share the skin of a dead bear? These articles are intended to bring about a split in Novorossia so that paper people are not about protecting their land from families and homes, but about some mythical plans for the future. Just like the essays in 1918 ........ First, the aggressor must be destroyed, and only then, through a referendum, decide the future of the state.

    Think correctly ..! There is no unity there. Bye. Russia is waiting for everyone .. (Strelkov won’t wait for anyone and dill shred ..)
    1. 0
      26 July 2014 22: 04
      Below is a picture of my no longer minus .. I'm not a Bandera! I’m for Strelkova damn ..! What are you guys doing .. stop
  13. -9
    26 July 2014 08: 14
    On all sites ..))) Think for yourself ..
    1. +6
      26 July 2014 09: 19
      What kind of "flyer" minus? This picture for reflection ... Svidomye and our liberals so persecute us .. (hound as usual ..) Kurganian and who is behind him .. Shooters are a clear man! Or who doubts ..?
      1. +1
        26 July 2014 11: 44
        Quote: MIKHAN
        What kind of "flyer" minus? This picture for reflection ... Svidomye and our liberals so persecute us .. (hound as usual ..) Kurganian and who is behind him .. Shooters are a clear man! Or who doubts ..?


        You didn’t add for Khodakovsky the failure of the operation at the Donetsk airport — more than 60 of them were killed; more than 30 were volunteers from Russia; the assault failed the border with the loss of military equipment and people in a prepared ambush. I’m not saying that he’s a bad commander, but he’s not at war good or bad commanders, everyone is wrong.
    2. +1
      26 July 2014 09: 39
      Quote: MIKHAN
      On all sites ..))) Think for yourself ..

      I saw that Saur didn’t keep the grave, dominant height. At the same time, we need to remember how the Chechens were put behind the airport. Who was the commander there?
      1. 0
        26 July 2014 09: 52
        Khodakovsky is winning ???
        1. +2
          26 July 2014 11: 36
          Quote: KUOLEMA
          Khodakovsky is winning ???

          Well, if the current is like Tymchuk and Avakov .. (I still don’t want to discuss it muddy) .. Who isn’t the main thing now .. Shred the main dill (the junta is not negotiating? So in Kiev (we will accept unconditional surrender ..)
    3. +2
      26 July 2014 12: 04
      For Mikhan: Your favorite H. said this in an interview that now he himself does not know how to wash. They pulled him by the tongue? No. Wanted to promote? Yes.
      If a tongue-tied comrade tries to connect two words, the expected result is nonsense.
      I don't really like Citizen S. either. The fact that he "passed" something is on the conscience of the author of the deme. Was he supposed to stay there and blow himself up with a grenade?
    4. 0
      26 July 2014 12: 25
      Favorite of Nemtsov? Oh well. Fascist Dugin? And where does this story come from? From Kiev?
    5. 0
      26 July 2014 15: 10
      Rumor has it that Khodakovsky did not take the oath of the DPR. It's true?
  14. 11111mail.ru
    +3
    26 July 2014 08: 17
    Every day, people must see how the “leader” keeps their word. Posted by Plastunov

    Yes, "all eyes have overlooked" ...
  15. +3
    26 July 2014 08: 28
    The initiative should be punished - those who love to shout "Get up from the couch, take a machine gun and go to Donbass" are simply obliged to do it themselves
    "... 1. Lack of an IDEA, understandable to the people, of the future that they want to build FOR THE PEOPLE."
    the wording is not entirely correct, not what they want to build for the people, this is some kind of parasitism, but the idea of ​​the future that the people should build
    And the future should not be with some kind of geographic reference, be it the European future or the Eurasian, these names say little about the future, the future should say what kind of state system should be, what society should be
  16. +10
    26 July 2014 08: 38
    I read the article ... The question arose, but what about Russia itself? What does she look like amid this conflict?

    I will answer. Complicated feelings overwhelm ... For example, patriots (starting with Kurginyan, Dugin, etc., ending with simple anonymous commentators) - today everyone is like a swan, cancer and pike! T.N. "public people", "creative cut" if you like, so those, in general, against the background of a frankly, arrogant and defiantly boorish antics of some sprat office, regarding their colleagues in the "workshop", all as one went to sing songs in Jurmala. .. cut the loot! And then, well, it's logical to assume that everyone will also go to the Crimea! They will blow in their ears how they love this country ... how they all (the audience) are dear to them, etc ...

    ps. something is wrong in the "conservatory" ... somehow it becomes dangerous if you think about it ... Where and to what are we all going ?!
  17. +7
    26 July 2014 08: 41
    Strelkov knows and understands in his heart that Russia’s troops cannot be led into, but it becomes insulting at times, although we scold the author of the article, he is right in one thing, there is no idea and no pronounced leader of the South East, and that the struggle is against reborn fascism it doesn’t reach the bulk of the people, people who are in power anyway would have the job, they would have paid a salary to support their family, the most important thing is that they do not bomb, shoot or fly planes over their heads. Now Strelkov’s troops are fighting for the idea of ​​fighting fascism from other countries, and the local population goes to the militia not for the idea of ​​revenge, for the ruined house, for the death of relatives and friends. And until SE puts forward some kind of slogan like land to the people, factory workers, the situation with the replenishment of troops will be a problem.
    1. 0
      26 July 2014 11: 09
      Quote: A1L9E4K9S
      he is right in one thing, there is no idea and no pronounced leader of the South East

      It seems to me the idea of ​​living and working on my own land, the right to speak my native language, the right to have my own culture is a very good idea, for which it is worth dying. And as for the real leaders of Novorossia ... I have a strong feeling that Strelkov has long been actually a military dictator and no one in Novorossia argues with this. This is by no means bad; under the current conditions, this seems to be the only option for consolidating the leadership; there must be a person who will take responsibility for everything.
  18. sergeybulkin
    +4
    26 July 2014 08: 44
    Oh, come on. Why are they trying to solve their own problems? Run away from the country in different directions. They made business and who to rake? RF ??? EU ??? I have their drum problems, EXACTLY THE SAME AS UKRAINE ALWAYS WERE THE PROBLEMS OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION ON THE DRUM, I emphasize - always!
  19. +2
    26 July 2014 08: 49
    Long live, thanks to which, no matter what!
  20. wanderer_032
    +7
    26 July 2014 08: 51
    What are they fighting in Novorossia for?
    For independence from the corrupt pro-Western junta of power seated in Kiev.
    For the right to freely speak the language spoken from birth.
    For the right to live according to normal human values ​​and beliefs that do not coincide with the followers of Bandera and Hitler.
  21. +8
    26 July 2014 08: 54
    To the author plus. It is unpleasant, of course, to hear the uncomfortable truth, but the article posed the right questions. I like - Bolotov, Kafman, Shooters. Slurred Gubarev, the tongue-tsarist Tsarev - clearly expressed non-leaders. recourse
  22. +1
    26 July 2014 08: 55
    The sofa is a long-standing subject of politics.

    That was the name of the meeting of the noble Turks in the Ottoman Empire.

    The appearance of a sofa in Russia is an alarming signal. Remember what the Ottoman Empire ended up with?

    The "sick man" of Europe suffered painfully and for a long time. Died in 1918.
  23. +4
    26 July 2014 08: 58
    Basically, of course, I agree with the author, but "Struggle for Minds" is also an important factor. And "couch troops" aren't always that bad. After all, in Ukraine and in other foreign countries, they also read our opinion and facts on our forum are HONEST and not "all sorts of psakin"! If at least one "zombie" by the State Department propaganda changes his opinion for the better about Russia and those people he supports, then I will assume that what we are writing and discussing here is not written in vain.
    Thanks to ALL forum users for their position, even if it differs from mine. drinks
    ps About "getting up from the couch" - I would go and fight myself.
    I just can not for a number of reasons (health)
  24. +2
    26 July 2014 08: 58
    As a result, we have a wild picture: the Slavs kill each other - one for Europe (which says that she does not need them), and the other for Russia (which also says that she does not need them).


    It is just that Russia does not need Russians, although the GDP said exactly the opposite, and it worries.
    I still somehow understood the attitude of Russia towards the abandoned Russians in Central Asia, Transcaucasia, the Baltic States, but then the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of those who "reigned" after the October Revolution were at the helm. They are against the Russian people ... from the high bell tower, they are still present, and probably their number has not decreased, but the people have passed the stage of "wild knowledge of historical truth." Rupee for a hundred, that the bulk of the people who found the USSR at a conscious age, understand that we have LOST.
    But now, when it comes to native Russian lands, about the descendants of those Rusichs who founded Kievan Rus ... I don’t understand, I don’t want to understand and I don’t understand why, for the sake of whom or what we should hand them over to?
    I do not agree with the author, just from that (Ukrainian) side they are fighting AGAINST, first of all, against Russia!
    And we must fight and always stand for Russia!
    Yugoslavia surrendered Kosovo, no more Yugoslavia!
    The USSR passed the republic - there is no longer the USSR!

    And we fight and FOR freedom of the South-East of Ukraine from neo-Nazism and Europe with the U.S., and VS world evil in the person of the U.S. and its puppets.
  25. +3
    26 July 2014 09: 20
    Well, for what dill is fighting, it’s understandable: for a unitary state, for the integrity of Ukraine, for everything to be as before ... Perhaps that's all.
    Donetsk and Lugansk began to fight in opposition. Initially, they were not passionate. Yes, they still do not hatch plans to "crush the reptile in her lair" rather it is like waving off a bespectacled man from a "godfather-classmate", and, as it turned out, very successfully. But politics, don't touch us, and we will not touch us, this is the politics of the doomed. Kiev will back down when it realizes that a scribe may come to it. That is, when Novorossiya will really have superior strength. This means that we must plan to see our boot on the roof of the Rada. You can't do without it, comrades
  26. +2
    26 July 2014 09: 27
    In general, ideologically, Novorossiya has a dead end, it depends on the Russian Federation, at least in terms of moral support, since in Russia itself there is no idea, then it is impossible to continue it in Novorossia; on the other hand, in the same place in Novorossia they are trying to get rid of the oligarchs, because those for the sake of their interests will betray the militias, and put forward the idea under the slogan "all power to the people", then the Russian Federation will begin to avoid them, otherwise the partners will not approve, if we assume the option of victory for the militias, then liberal capitalism from Russia will come there and come up with another gambling zone so as not to waste your capital, rot in one word
  27. +1
    26 July 2014 09: 44
    Not even in "Wikipedia", well, how to say it, add it, I have experience of unsuccessful communication with this structure, since then I believe it very little, everything needs to be checked, and I, for example, did not manage to correct incorrect data.
  28. +4
    26 July 2014 09: 56
    For those who do not understand why Novorossia is fighting, it is necessary to organize tours on May 9 to Lviv!
  29. 0
    26 July 2014 10: 21
    Why "Muscovites" for the leaders? Yes, because all the locals were jailed and killed long ago by the SS and the Ukrainian SBU. What are they fighting for? Just for a bright future without Bandera marauders and punishers. The author seems to live in some kind of his own world, and, it seems, it is on the sofa.
  30. +1
    26 July 2014 10: 30
    For Novorossia (so what, that the bourgeois Wikipedia doesn't know it? But can you fight only for what the wiki knows? This is something new).
    For the Russian world, for the Slavic brotherhood, for justice, finally.
    For a life.
  31. +3
    26 July 2014 10: 35
    Yes, okay "sofa" troops, the idea .. in Ukraine-Little Russia, the idea is one of my hut on the edge .. while it does not concern me .. remember the history: joining the Grand Duchy of Lithuania South-Eastern Russia was not particularly bloody-Lithuanian princes told the Russian princes, you do not care who you pay tribute to the Tatars or to us, but together we also pay them for tinsel ... How did the Russian princes become Polish masters? It was offered to choose from, accept Catholicism and you are a Polish master and do not care that you are Russian, but all the best, with the king you sit in the Diet and sorry, sorry ... you go to the principle do not be offended ..
    The same Bogdan-Zinovy ​​Khmelnitsky ... fought for the Polish king ... well, as soon as he personally touched, the Polish gentry burned the farm and ruined his young son, ran to the Cossacks-guys, the Poles became insolent, they do not respect the Orthodox at all ... He fought, fought with Poles .. and people are more on "sofas" .. What to do? to Russia ... "Vanya, I am yours forever" .. Further, the 20th century civil war .. there were many "fathers" with numerous people's armies .. But the ideological Reds won .. Why ..? One of the reasons ... a soldier of the "father's" army, came to the chieftain and said: "That's it, Petro, I'm no longer a fighter, I'm tired, piyshov home" was collecting trophies, on carts and to the hut, and there were a lot of them ... and Petro was not with the army, with the squadron it remains ... And the partisan movement during the Great Patriotic War in Ukraine ... at first, ideological units went to the detachments ... the rest was FSU, but when the Germans, showed Kuzma's mother, trampled into the partisans ... the partisan commanders themselves they write in their memoirs ... There is only one idea in Ukraine, don't touch my house ... for it is on the edge ...
    1. +2
      26 July 2014 19: 41
      Well, yes, either a rooster (red or fried - no difference) or a fluffy northern animal should creep up to that extreme hut. Then the inhabitants of the hut will get off the warm stove. "And mene for sho?"

      Anecdote: a "cholovik" (ie husband) comes into the house. I ate, drank and a gun. "Where are you going?" - asks the squad (wife). "That pidu klyatih m * scaliv shoot" - "And if they shoot you?" - "And me for sho ??!"
  32. +4
    26 July 2014 10: 35
    Quote: elenagromova
    For the Russian world, for the Slavic brotherhood, for justice, finally.
    For a life.

    Can you decipher what this means in practice?
    For example:
    Will there be banks with a loan interest in the Russian world?
    Will there be oligarchs in the Russian world?
    Who will belong to the plants in the Slavic brotherhood?
    Etc. in detail how will all this affect the lives of ordinary people?
  33. +3
    26 July 2014 11: 10
    The author is a huge plus. Great analysis, concise and to the point. Finally, at least someone clearly voiced all the "misunderstandings" and rotten moments of this "war". It has long been clear that a showdown is taking place between big uncles for a lot of money and power. And so that local gnomes did not interfere with solving these issues, they came up with an interesting lesson, the Russians were given the opportunity to kill each other. It is clear that the fate and future of these Russians does not interest anyone, including the rulers of Russia. At the same time, America took the opportunity to shove Russia in the gut for the future with this airplane.
    Once again, the author - respect.
  34. +2
    26 July 2014 11: 15
    Quote: ed65b
    but then you can think about how to continue to live in the new Ukraine

    The article is about what you need to think right away. Otherwise, the rest of Ukraine, which will be taken "for re-education", will only see WHIP, but will not see the GINGER, for which it is worth laying down your arms and not twitching further. At the same time, Russophobia will subside if an idea is proposed that is tempting enough, grandiose and sane.
  35. -2
    26 July 2014 11: 18
    The author made one of the two articles one title, one, and most of the material on the meaning of the war in Ukraine and leadership problems in New Russia.
  36. +1
    26 July 2014 11: 47
    That is the strength of the militias that they are fighting for their homeland, for their traditions and culture! The Western mercenaries will be crushed like cockroaches, until there is enough strength. Those who have come to a foreign land always suffer from morality and motivation. Glory to those who protect their homes! And there will always be leaders!
  37. +1
    26 July 2014 11: 57
    The most “not new” and the most famous of them is Tsarev. To put it mildly, neither a speaker nor a thinker. In Dnepropetrovsk, he is well remembered by land deriban in the city and region. His business qualities can be judged at least by the fact that since his election as “head of state of Novorossia”, no of his decisions have been announced. Neither the organ nor the official website of the state has been created. How is the “head of state” going to inform his citizens about something? And the fact that the “head” of a belligerent state does not indulge his visits either by the militias or their commanders, also looks strange. Apparently, neither with them, nor with the leadership of the LC and the DPR, nor with Gubarev, does he add up. What then is he the head of? .. One can say that Tsarev is quite suitable to discredit and ruin the idea of ​​New Russia. Potentially, this is Yanukovych №2.

    I always said that it was necessary to drive him. Consent. Ditched the resistance in Kharkov, now moved to Donetsk. Morale is uplifting.
  38. The comment was deleted.
  39. +10
    26 July 2014 12: 30
    And what is wrong? How did my sofa interfere with the author? Should I leave my wife and two children and go to die for the refugees? Speaking of them, we have a sanatorium in the north (Arkhangelsk) where several families from Ukraine have been accommodated. Women are constantly rude to the staff, demand a lot, justify that "Because of your Putin, we left, he unleashed a war .. Let us now give us apartments and money"
    Why should the Russians go to defend them? In principle, if I help, then through the topvar to the militia, the whole family is worried about the warriors.
    Money and weapons should be helped but for those who are in the ranks. And our soldiers there is also no place.
  40. +2
    26 July 2014 12: 58
    And what is incomprehensible in ideas? All nonsense, even including the key issue of private property.
    There is a war going on between the self-proclaimed "first-rate" humanity against the "second-rate", its most powerful part - Russia in a large sense. And now, for the second time, the quintessence of the "top-notch" is fascism. It is not by chance that the West turns a blind eye to him, or even justifies.
    And it is impossible to say that in the wars of Carthage with Rome, they strongly mutually cared for the forms of government of each other, or there, religious beliefs and rites ...
    So now - the biggest mistake of EBN and Gorbi was to think at least for a second that the West - not enemies! They were, are, and always will be, simply because of the nature of things. Even sometimes joining us in military and political unions, they solve some of their tactical tasks, always returning to one degree or another to Russophobia, and in a wider sense to Slavophobia (in which Poles, Czechs, Bulgarians and etc.).
  41. 0
    26 July 2014 13: 26
    Spit who of them is there and who and who is under whom or over whom. The main thing is to dump the Nazis in a coffin, liberate the whole of New Russia, devote Bandera to the Stone Age, and then we will figure out who is who.
  42. +1
    26 July 2014 13: 40
    All these questions posed by the author must be resolved, and as soon as possible. Because tomorrow they will face the leadership of Russia.

    Putin has popular support, but it is ensured by oil and gas well-being, and not by his personality. In my opinion, he is a conscientious leader, but when complex questions arise, he is simply lost.

    Sooner or later, if he and his team plan to stay in power, they will have to answer questions:
    National - how to get along different nations in one state. Proprietary - unity is not possible in the country of thieves and robbed. And finally, the national idea: a dream that will affect the hearts, will make you forget about a prosperous future in the American society.
  43. +2
    26 July 2014 15: 18
    Of course, while the new republics in their confrontation lose in slogans.

    After all, we all know why the Bolsheviks won. Thanks to clear and well-formulated, and most importantly simple slogans. "Land - to the peasants" "Vodka - to the sailors"

    It seems to me most preferable to motivate, with just such slogans and appeals. At least so that from all the megaphones and horns of the city, appeals flowed to defend the new Motherland, as well as about the prospects for a future peaceful life. And then, after all, a destroyed house and dead relatives motivate for revenge.
  44. 0
    26 July 2014 15: 18
    When a thug breaks into your house, only a feeble-minded person can ask himself the question “why am I defending myself.” The very statement of the question in front of oneself already speaks of cowardice and an attempt to justify one's own possible inaction at a critical moment.
    But when the moment of the offensive comes, such a question may arise. And I think it is obvious, there is a civilizational confrontation, all Western indecency and corruption on the one hand, and our culture, history, language, Church, healthy traditional values, blood brotherhood on the other.
    He cheated on the faith of his ancestors, sold himself to the Uniates and sectarians, cheated on the grave of his grandfather who died in the war, ruined his father’s factory, cursed his Russian brother, sent his sister to a European brothel, so you can proudly carry the Mazepa-Bandera flag
  45. -1
    26 July 2014 15: 27
    I’m ready to support the author 100 percent, I am also amazed how the militia did not clearly formulate the goals and objectives of building the state for three months of hostilities! Plus, then these goals were not clothed in language that was understandable to ordinary people!
    Whether the case in Russia, everything is clearly formulated, voiced. And the national idea, and what kind of state we are building, and everything is in order with ideology!
    True, we do not have a war, generals like dogs, government ministers, economists and so on and so forth
    Only apparently I was on vacation when all this was voiced, missed, and so sorry.

    The author go to the Strelkovoy AI and discuss this topic (suggest the answer or guess yourself wink )
  46. -1
    26 July 2014 16: 29
    I hasten to comment without reading the comments of others and, perhaps, I will repeat myself, but ... The article is just an example of what "couch" thinking is, although sometimes there are sober assessments, but, on the whole - bullshit!
    The distinctive features of a national leader are the ability to publicly take on clear and unequivocal obligations towards the future of the people, and the ability to achieve their fulfillment. Will current “leaders” grow up to this?


    Speaking about the arrogance of "Muscovites", the author of the article has a coherent mentor tone! Is it that Strelkov has not grown to the ideological level of Mr. Plastunov? It turns out that the Commander-in-Chief of the Army of the People's Militia is working somehow non-technologically! Without public relations - I could not explain to the miners, "sho them bude" if they go to fight the junta! And he dispersed the disguised Cossacks, and did not "spin", already practically, the people's media figure of young Gubarev and his wife! You are not fighting correctly, gentlemen, militias! Apolitical! And it should be like this:
    It is necessary to speak directly and clearly to the people, FOR WHAT the Southeast is fighting. Not only in order to explain, but also for current “leaders” to publicly commit themselves. What future do they undertake to build? The people should see every day how the “leader” keeps his word. And so that the "leader" could not start telling that he "did not say that".


    And it seems that Kurginyan's opus sounds through the lines, and his ghost threatens the militia with a finger! - "The soldiers got carried away, explain to people what you are fighting for and, preferably, explain every single day, and only, mind you, the truth!"
  47. 0
    26 July 2014 18: 38
    Quote: nvv
    Quote: Polar
    Quote: aleks700

    Yes, both are right. And for a world without fascism, criminal politicians unleashed. And one of the mistakes is the lack of propaganda. Although all media are accused of this. It is necessary to carry ideas to the masses with the help of commissars. Yes Yes. Not at the front. They already understand, but in the yards, in the factories, in the queue for the store.

    All right. We need a propaganda apparatus and commissars who will bring to the people such ideas that the people will support and understand why they call him to shed blood.

    Commissars? Jews again? How can?!!!!

    Choke. I am Jewish.
  48. 0
    26 July 2014 18: 55
    Article bullshit. The author denounces political strategists, he himself makes the same "mistakes." Like the smartest?
  49. 0
    26 July 2014 19: 43
    Chechen President Ramzan Kadyrov ironically responded to the expansion of sanctions against Russia by the United States and the European Union by posting on Instagram their own sanctions list, which included several Western politicians. According to Kadyrov, they are responsible for the bloodshed not only in Ukraine, but also in many other countries. These persons are prohibited from entering the Chechen Republic, and their accounts and assets, if any, in Chechnya will be frozen.
    26 July 2014, 19: 03
    "Dear friends! The whole world has witnessed the tragedy of the peoples of Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan. And recently, of Ukraine. Under the guise of exporting democracy, civilians, women, old people, children are being killed in these countries, cities and religious shrines are being destroyed. The USA and the European Union are directly responsible for everything that happens, ”Ramzan Kadyrov wrote on Instagram.

    “Today I decided to create a sanctions list and include US President Barack Obama, European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, European Council President Herman Van Rompuy, EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Catherine Ashton, European Parliament President Martin Schulz. I instructed to freeze their bank accounts and any assets. Since July 27, the listed politicians have been prohibited from entering the Chechen Republic, ”he said.

    Recall that the head of Chechnya himself was on the EU sanctions list. The decision of the EU Council of July 24 expanded the existing “black list” by another 15 people, as well as by 18 companies and organizations.



    Original article: http://russian.rt.com/article/42611#ixzz38acuhX89
  50. -2
    26 July 2014 19: 54
    The article leaves a very ambiguous impression. On the one hand, do you see how many people liked it? A detailed analysis of the situation and all that. Of course, understandable slogans are needed, and "the people must be explained." But here the dog rummaged in my purely subjective opinion. Let's make it simpler: you are sitting at home, your city is being bombarded by an enemy, familiar people are dying before your eyes. Do you need a slogan? Do you want to first see the GDP (for example) and hear the call and prospects for your actions, and only then rise to defend your home? Or what? Why are absolutely understandable things, such as protecting your home, at the gut level, rejection of fascism, orientation towards Russia, not Europe, the ability to say no, to those who impose their visions and rules - all this is not enough motivation? Or does the author have the impression that Igor Ivanovich has only to drive through Donetsk and shout the program into a megaphone (or throw leaflets around), so immediately all those sitting on the priest will run to war? And without this, well, how? Or maybe it's not the absence of a program now? and in the banal "everyone chooses for himself, a woman, a religion, a road, to serve the devil or the prophet" and further in the text? And all these insinuations against him do not seem to you some kind of "bites from under the carpet"? We don't have enough of our own, sorry, shit, in the form of gluttonous "businessmen", saboteurs, singers - moral freaks, infantile ignoramuses with a clogged "buy-sell" head? So we now and those who escaped from the usual rotten schemes, took responsibility for Novorossiya, for battles, for people, we will immediately face the floor and "indistinct" and "PR man", and "Moscow arrogant" to call. Well this will clearly improve the situation! And in Russian minds as well!
    ps and re-read the Strugatsky. Everything about slogans is well laid out there.
    1. +2
      26 July 2014 20: 20
      Quote: Quiet
      you are sitting at home, your city is bombarding an enemy, familiar people are dying in front of your eyes.

      And if you are sitting in Kharkov, Nikolaev, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhye, etc.? And your city is not fired upon, and familiar people do not die before your eyes? What you describe is a motive for revenge. When there is a thirst for revenge, no slogans are needed. The author speaks of creation, that in addition to destruction, it is necessary to have in mind something for which you are fighting.
      I remember when announcing New Russia there were statements that now, looking at the Donbass, another 8-10 regions will rise. So what? And silence. Because these 8-10 regions cannot understand who and what is fighting in the Donbass. And until they understand they will not rise.

      Quote: Quiet
      took responsibility for Novorossia


      And what does it mean "took responsibility"? What does this mean for the residents of Novorossiya? That they will continue to be fired upon and killed for some reason?

      Quote: Quiet
      Everything about slogans is well laid out there.

      The point is not in slogans, but in the absence of an idea. Why do people die? For a change in the collective of oligarchs?
      1. -2
        26 July 2014 20: 42
        Quote: vladek64
        The point is not in slogans, but in the absence of an idea. Why do people die? For a change in the collective of oligarchs?

        And what gives you such confidence to argue that people die solely for a change in the collective of oligarchs or not for a change? That everything revolves around this very shift? What if you do not hear the slogans then it is necessary to prepare exactly "change of oligarchs"? Why are the reasons for their land, for not fascism - this is not a reason, or some kind of "minor reason", or even "revenge"?
        Quote: vladek64
        And what does it mean "took responsibility"? What does this mean for the residents of Novorossiya? That they will continue to be fired upon and killed for some reason?

        the question "it is not clear why" arises only in people with the substitution of the most ordinary, humanly correct concepts. To live by your own state is not clear why? What kind of mania we have! We sit like Vysotsky's "we didn't have enough leader", the country needs its own heroes, but as soon as who appears, it is necessary to immediately "subject him to analysis" or, more simply, to shit? Find flaws and immediately "debunk"? Is it such a twist of feelings of self-inferiority?
        Quote: vladek64
        The author speaks of creation, that in addition to destruction, it is necessary to have in mind something for which you are fighting.

        Take a washcloth - start over) In Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhye, some ammunition for the kids is required, other grandmothers wash and punitive squads put together, and they create other undergrounds. And everyone clearly represents their goal. To whom Ukraine and death are united to Colorado, to whom the country is huge. Where is the lack of understanding of the reasons? There are reasons, there is the notorious "what I'm fighting for." In the one hundred and third circle, I will not voice what the militia is fighting for - everything has already been said, it has been written a hundred times. Why is it still in the category of "incomprehensibility" that is the question of the questions!
  51. The comment was deleted.
  52. +3
    26 July 2014 20: 53
    Quote: Quiet
    Вы захотите сначала увидеть ВВП (к примеру) и услышать призыв и перспективы ваших действий, а только потом подниметесь на защиту своего дома?

    Просто поглядите на историю, возьмем начало ВОВ, хоть и с неким опозданием, но было обращение Сталина к народу, обращение лидера важно, ибо оно сплачивает народ вокруг него и проясняет ситуацию, кто мы, с кем воюем, за что воюем и во имя чего
  53. -2
    26 July 2014 21: 34
    Quote: saag
    Просто поглядите на историю, возьмем начало ВОВ, хоть и с неким опозданием, но было обращение Сталина к народу, обращение лидера важно, ибо оно сплачивает народ вокруг него и проясняет ситуацию, кто мы, с кем воюем, за что воюем и во имя чего

    Конечно важно! Но поглядев в историю начала ВОВ вы думаете, что если б Сталин не обратился к народу, всё бы было по другому? Не было бы самосознания, борьбы с захватчиками, или она велась бы вялотекуще или как-то иначе?
    Поймите, я не оспариваю важность программ и лозунгов и обращений. Но меня до крайности коробит попытка немедля разложить по запчастям людей, которые сейчас там и дело делают.
  54. -2
    26 July 2014 23: 19
    Что ж, опять надо заниматься ликвидацией разрухи в головах, которую порождают такие вот статейки. После неё, как после взрыва фугасного боеприпаса - всё в кучу. Для разбора завалов (в головах) придётся использовать затратный способ - отвечать на каждый абзац отдельно. Соберёмся с духом и приступим...

    1. Ирония Автора про диванные войска неуместна. Выходит, что в наиболее выгодном статусе те, кто вообще не пытается осмыслить происходящее, которым плевать на всё. Обыватель, живущий своей частной жизнью, не схлопочет статуса "диванного бойца". Кто посмеет думать, выработать свою точку зрения, и, какая наглость!, заявить её, тот "диванный боец". Ему заткнут рот демагогическим приёмом - "хватит п-деть, иди воюй!" Какое моральное право имеет Автор обращаться к аудитории словами - "суетящимся вокруг дивана"? Разве невозможно адресовать эти слова и ему? Сам-то он кто? Этого Автор не понимает, как бандеровец в известном анекдоте - "а если тебя?, а меня-то за что?!!!". У Автора все "в плену дивана", а сам он, надо полагать, свободен? А, собственно, почему? Объяснил бы...

    2. "...у каждой из сторон конфликта на Украине есть две основные проблемы". Не надо, господин Автор, валить всех в одну кучу, приписывать ополчению те же проблемы, что и карателям. У этих противоборствующих сторон проблемы принципиально различны. Меня не трогают проблемы бандеровской стороны, пусть им тюремные психиатры помогают справиться с их проблемам. Задача всех остальных - помочь им оказаться на нарах и под присмотром докторов.

    3. Утверждать, что у ополчения отсутствует ИДЕЯ - гнусная клевета. Идея сейчас одна - борьба с бандерофашизмом, разбуженным США. Если Автор этой идеи не видит, то это лично его проблема, Перекладывать её на всех остальных, в т.ч. на ополчение, не надо. Интересно, как ополчение держится 4 месяца без идеи? Ась? Не слышу Вас, господин Автор!
    "Ведь после борьбы ПРОТИВ остаются руины". Так может и не надо БОРОТЬСЯ ПРОТИВ ФАШИЗМА? Не к этой ли мыслишке подталкивает Автор?

    4. Обеспечением единства среди нынешних лидеров (людей с очень разными биографиями) как раз и занимался Кургинян в своё прибывание в Донецке. Кстати, он опять "пропал из эфира". Значит, выйдет в эфир, когда получит новый результат. Из его слов, между прочим, следует, что самым последовательным и твёрдым лидером является Ходаковский.
    1. 0
      26 July 2014 23: 37
      Раз согласны с Кургиняном,стало быть не согласны с постулатом, что "критика верховного главнокомандующего в военное время является преступлением", в коей Кургинян как раз активно был замечен?
    2. +3
      27 July 2014 01: 02
      Quote: SV Activist
      3. Утверждать, что у ополчения отсутствует ИДЕЯ - гнусная клевета. Идея сейчас одна - борьба с бандерофашизмом,


      Не надо горячиться
      "Борьба с ..." это как раз и есть борьба против чего либо, в данном случае с бандерфашизмом.
      А Идея это "борьба ЗА..." чего как раз и не хватает Новороссии.
      Именно об этом автор и написал.
      Quote: SV Activist
      Интересно, как ополчение держится 4 месяца без идеи? Ась? Не слышу Вас, господин Автор!

      Держиться, да! Но пока именно держится, отступая и обороняясь.
      Не лишне вспомнить как и почему ополчение образовалось. Идея, возможно там и была, но далеко не у всех. Многие вступили в ополчение именно "ПРОТИВ", а не "ЗА". К тому же Идея не была сформулированна и оглашена в качестве программы действий. Пока вся программа - отбиться от ВСУ, а это тактическая задача , а не стратегическая.
      Quote: SV Activist
      "Ведь после борьбы ПРОТИВ остаются руины". Так может и не надо БОРОТЬСЯ ПРОТИВ ФАШИЗМА? Не к этой ли мыслишке подталкивает Автор?

      Не надо домысливать и свои домыслы приписывать автору, у него этой мыслишки нет.
      А насчет БОРЬБЫ ПРОТИВ ФАШИЗМА... Знаете, Идеей компартии была Мировая Революция, стратегической целью СССР - построение нового общества, новой человеческой формации. А борьба с фашизмом всего лишь одна из текущих задач, возникшая на пути к Великой цели.
      Автор прав - Идеи нет.
      Но нет Идеи не только в Новороссии, нет Идеи и в России. Не считать же Идеей стремление к сытости и достатку. Нет Идеи и на Западе, нет её и на Востоке.
      А без Идеи нельзя, без неё человечество оскотинивается.
      Значить будет большой Бада-Бум, который даст человечеству Новую Идею.
  55. -1
    27 July 2014 00: 15
    "В результате имеем дикую картину: славяне убивают друг друга — одни за Европу (которая говорит, что они ей не нужны), а другие за Россию (которая тоже говорит, что они ей не нужны)".

    А вот это уже совсем гнусный приём информационной войны. Это разоблачает Автора, как врага. А его статейка - действительно фугас, производящий разрушения в умах. Есть такой класс боеприпасов - тяжёлый фугас в прочной стальной оболочке, он сначала проламывает преграду (в данном случае, преграду здравого смысла), а потом производит тяжёлые внутренние разрушения на КП (в д.сл., в голове).

    Ну так вооружимся здравым смыслом: во-первых, и официальная РФ, и Россия, как русский Мир, делом доказывают, что все носители русской (российской) идентичности ей нужны, никого Россия не бросила, Автор просто бессовестно врёт, а во-вторых, Автор пытается внушить всем, что Россия такая же иллюзорная, рыхлая субстанция, как и Европа, на которую бессмысленно возлагать надежды.

    Если Россия - иллюзия, на которую невозможно опереться, и глупо искать у неё защиты, то почему так воют на неё США? Пусть Автор объяснит. На иллюзию не посылают проклятья и угрозы, иллюзию просто игнорируют. А тут...

    Если всё действительно так, как рисует Автор, то пусть облобызается троекратно с "славянином" Порошенко и "славянином" Ярошем. Эта картина не дикая? Кому как, а мне более дикой картины и представить невозможно. Лучше пусть будет вражда. Пусть Автор попытается найти общий язык со "славянкой" Анастасией Дмитрук, а она ему в ответ оплеуху: "никогда мы не будем братьями".
  56. 0
    27 July 2014 01: 27
    Автору жирный минус! Тоже политтехнолог доморощенный. Да ещё похоже киевского засола.
  57. -1
    27 July 2014 02: 07
    "Автор прав - Идеи нет".
    Normal.

    Уважаемый Нормальный. Я многое забыл из того, чему меня учили на физтехе, но требование рациональности, непротиворечивости мышления, признания очевидных фактов, установления связей между ними впечатано в моё сознание навсегда, непризнание фактов в ходе дискуссии для меня более неприлично (недопустимо), чем нецензурные выражения, они-то иногда допустимы (Псаки своим упорным непризнанием фактов приводит в оторопь всю российскую общественность, это верх неприличия, хочется выражаться ненормативно, она издевается, она просто драная). В этом смысле, я тоже нормальный.

    Так вот, упорное сопротивление ополчения - это очевидный факт. Более того, это крупное историческое явление, высвобождение исторической энергии, почти невозможное в остывающем расслабленном европейском обществе, это русская накалённость. Наблюдая этот очевидный факт, эту доступную моему непосредственному восприятию высокотемпературную субстанцию, я, как нормальный, ОБЯЗАН ПРИЗНАТЬ!, что в основе наблюдаемого явления имеется накалённое идейное ядро, ИДЕЯ! Если я это не признАю, то не могу считаться рациональным здравым человеком.

    Вдумайтесь, Нормальный!

    Два утверждения: 1.ополчение упорно сопротивляется 4 месяца, нанося противнику тяжёлый урон в живой силе и технике, 2.у ополчения нет Идеи, являются взаимоисключающими. Если утверждение 1 является реальностью, доступной восприятию каждого человека (кроме Автора), значит Идея есть. Если утверждения 1 и 2 непротиворечиво уживаются в чьей-то голове, то этот человек не может считаться рационально мыслящим.
    1. +1
      27 July 2014 10: 06
      Quote: SV Activist
      Уважаемый Нормальный......
      Если утверждения 1 и 2 непротиворечиво уживаются в чьей-то голове, то этот человек не может считаться рационально мыслящим.


      За два года пребывания на сайте никто еще так интеллектуально меня не "оскорблял" laughing
      Обычно у моих оппонентов не хватало ума и фантазии не на что, кроме как добавить к моему нику "НЕ"
      Возможно, вы правы отчасти - я действительно мыслю не рационально.
      Более того, не имею за спиной физтеха да и вообще какого-либо системного образования.
      Но из темных низин своего невежества и дремучести, мобилезовав всё своё косноязычие, попробую ответить Вам.

      Конечно же Идея есть и я даже об этом упомянул:
      Quote: Normal
      Идея, возможно там и была, но далеко не у всех.

      Добровольцы из России люди несомненно идейные. Без Идеи никто бы не поехал в свое время в Приднестровье и Югославию, без идеи не присоединился бы Крым.
      Эта Идея - Русский Мир.
      Но! Об этом в открытую сказал только... Бабай. Согласитесь, что он на идеолога явно не тянет.
      Наверно этой Идеей руководствуется и Стрелков, возможно кто-то еще.
      Но эта Идея не провозглашена как цель и руководство к действию, более того она не сформулированна как программа и не овладела массами.
      Все таки надо признать, что большинство воюет не ЗА идею, а за свою ХАТУ, против сволочного идиотизма Киевских властей, против мерзости бандеровской западэньщины, захватившей умы (и далеко не вчера) большинства укрАинцев, а совсем не за Русский Мир.
      Признавать Идеей борьбу с Фашизмом не вижу оснований. Эта цель промежуточная, за войной - Мир. Именно отсутствие представления о том, каким этот мир будет, ясности во многих вопросах мироустройства не позволяет множеству потенциальных бойцов встать в строй.

      И я бы не стал так напрямую увязывать способность к сопротивлению с чистыми наличием или отсутствием Идеи. Боевой опыт командиров и бойцов, вооружение, снабжение боеприпасами, продуктами, медикаментами, моральная и политическая поддержка со стороны тоже имеют некоторое значение.
  58. PPIC4
    0
    27 July 2014 02: 16
    Малороссия и Новороссия.
    Анализ:На основании той информации, которую можно получить из открытых источников, на территории признанной мировым сообществом в 1991 году, как независимое государство с официальным названием Украина, произошла потеря, так называемой «легитимной» системы управления населением на данной территории, которая долго (а возможно навсегда) не сможет уже восстановиться.Признаки этого: нет возможности, провести выборы руководителя данного государственного образования на всей территории, что бы узнать истинное волеизъявление народа проживающего в данном субъекте международного права, на свободных и равноправных выборах,гражданское противостояние в том числе с применением насилия к противоположной стороне, в том числе со смертельным исходом в результате применения подручных средств и огнестрельного оружия,каждая противоборствующая сторона пытается создать свои, так называемые «легитимные государственные органы власти», в том числе вооруженные формирования, имеющие в своем распоряжение тяжелое вооружение,у каждой из сторон данного противостояния есть группы государств, поддерживающих морально или материально (в том числе военными специалистами и вооружением), какую-то нравящую сторону этого конфликта,группы государств поддерживающих разных сторонников Малороссийского и Новороссийского (украинского) противостояния, являются в основном, так называемыми «Великими державами», то есть они обладают серьезными людскими, финансовыми и военными ресурсами, в том числе большим количеством оружия стратегического сдерживания (в основном ядерного) и средствами быстрой его доставки в любой регион земного шара (условно сформулировано представляют собой «Западный» блок и «Восточный» -без государственной привязки, а внутри блоков есть свои лидеры, противоречия и т. д., но есть общее направление политики в данном конфликте),каждая сторона пытается проводить свои выборные мероприятия (голосования, референдумы, выборы), для придания большего «веса» своим действиям, с тем что бы на «законных» основаниях не принимать позицию противоположной стороны,группы «Великих держав», занимающие противоположные стороны в данном споре о легитимности власти, на территории признанной всеми государствами и международными организациями мира, после развала Советского союза, как государство Украина, заранее заявили о своем будущем не признание законными, всех выборных мероприятий противоположной стороны и т. д.
    Предлагаем серьезно рассмотреть и поднять вопрос о легитимном правопреемстве Российской Империи, как государственного образования, любой из сторон конфликта, для возможного быстрого выхода из правового кризиса.
    Официальное заявление о спорности с точки зрения международного права, легитимном прекращение существования такого государственного образования, как Российская Империя (далее РИ),передача данного предложения одной из сторон гражданского противостояния, которая согласиться использовать данную идею, как руководство к действию,заявление данной стороны конфликта, принявшей идею о правопреемстве ими РИ, о признании себя правопреемником РИ, как государственного образования, в связи с тем, что это происходит на территории принадлежащей и входившей РИ и принять одной из названий существовавших на данной территории,обращение к населению, территории контролируемой данной противоборствующей стороны, с предложением признать данный факт,начать переговоры с представителями потомков дома Романовых (наверное желательно из правящих Домов и лучше «Великих держав»,) о устранение исторической несправедливости и просьбой, кому-то из принцев занять прародительский престол (обязательно приняв Православие),предложить августейшей особе назначить временного наместника данного государственного образования, с беспрекословным подчинением ему всех образовавшихся на контролируемой данной территории, органов власти,предложение всем, считающими себя гражд
    Далее: http://ppic4.livejournal.com/544.html
  59. 0
    27 July 2014 02: 51
    хех..автор забыл написать что Российские диванные войска имеют: диванную контрразведку,диванный очень глубокий тыл,диванных экономистов,диванных стратегов,диванных политтехнологов,диванных маршалов и генералов.. вообще--Российские Диванные Войска-самые диванные войска в мире:Смерть диванным пин.до.сам!смерть диванным гейропейцам!!..зафлудим врага -насмерть! laughing drinks soldier
  60. Everest2014
    0
    27 July 2014 03: 17
    Диванные воины они самые бесстрашные и в геополитике рубят фишку. Они из туалетного мыла бонбу сделают, космос покорят и ваще - всем капец устроят, они такие.
  61. 0
    27 July 2014 03: 28
    Путин за несколько дней до крымского референдума тоже говорил, что у рОссии нет планов присоединять Крым. Никто таких планов озвучивать не будет.
  62. 0
    27 July 2014 03: 44
    Писсаро, Ваше замечание существенно. Докладываю. В ходе своего первого посещения Донецка, Кургинян предложил обеспечить единство лидеров ополчения на основе создания механизма коллегиального принятия решений. Если название "совет полевых командиров" несколько неудобно в плане известных смысловых ассоциаций, то можно назвать эту структуру Советом обороны.

    Общепризнанного статуса верховного главнокомандующего Стрелков не имеет, это его личное самоназначение, подхваченное российскими СМИ. Я не умаляю роль Стрелкова, но и самовольно назначать себя единоначальником недопустимо. Самовольное назначение себя "верховным главнокомандующим" тоже такое деяние, за которое в военное время по голове не погладят. В условиях Новороссии это приведёт к острому конфликту между командирами.

    Жесткое единоначалие характерно для регулярных ВС государства, за его нарушение - трибунал. В иррегулярных формированиях, созданных на добровольческой основе, всё определяется личным авторитетом командира, а не его формальным статусом (формального статуса у него ещё нет). Назначать себя единоначальником в этих условиях - значит не укреплять оборону, а наносить ей ущерб. В этих условиях коллегиальный Совет обороны предпочтительнее единоначальной власти "верховного главнокомандующего". Из этого и исходил Кургинян в своих предложениях.

    Подчеркну ещё раз - не надо путать регулярные ВС с их жёсткой директивностью, тщательной регламентацией, единоначалием, рекрутированием на службу и иррегулярные формирования, где всё определяется доброй волей бойцов и неформальным авторитетом командира. Разыгрывать здесь "верховного главнокомандующего" - значит потерять связь с реальностью.

    Пример из моей собственной практики. В позапрошлом году, я закончил занятия парашютизмом в клубе ДОСААФ и приступил к освоению параплана. Отношения установились вполне душевные, ни капли дискриминации. Но я заметил, что систему ДОСААФ, как таковую, эти люди недолюбливают. Понятно за что, за дуболомство и казёнщину, которой там немало. Сообщество парапланеристов - иррегулярное неформальное сообщество, которое держится на взаимном уважении и доверии участников и личном неформальном авторитете инструктора, который всегда подчеркивает, что не командует, а рекомендует. Но игнорировать эти рекомендации в указанной среде считается неприличным. Если этот инструктор начнёт всех директивно "строить", вводить единоначалие, если будет утрачен элемент доверия (он имеет тут огромное значение, им дорожат больше всего, утратить доверие немыслимо) всё рассыплется, а не укрепится.
  63. 0
    27 July 2014 04: 09
    "хех..автор забыл написать что Российские диванные войска имеют: диванную контрразведку,диванный очень глубокий тыл,диванных экономистов,диванных стратегов,диванных политтехнологов,диванных маршалов и генералов.. вообще--Российские Диванные Войска-самые диванные войска в мире"

    el.krokodil, какой Вы остроумный, ну просто очень остроумный!!! Правильно, всех на чистую воду, кроме себя, любимого. А у Вас в диванных войсках какой чин, нельзя ли узнать? Или Вы в них не числитесь? Несамокритично как-то с Вашей стороны.
  64. +1
    27 July 2014 04: 22
    everest2014, Вы разместили СВОЮ фотку?
    Ну объясните мне, если Вы и el.krokodil, вместе с Автором статьи - нормальные, объясните, зачем выдвигать обвинения в диванности в адрес других, ведь их легко адресовать и Вам. На каком основании Вы себя к диванным не причисляете?
  65. 0
    27 July 2014 06: 24
    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-D6jj_CI1o0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  66. 0
    27 July 2014 16: 22
    ну врать так врать lol http://uareview.com/maria-putina-donbas/ Марiя Путіна записалась добровольцем у Батальйон Донбас
  67. Mwg
    +1
    27 July 2014 17: 00
    Автору. Не договорили Вы чего - то. Что - то еще читается между строк. Ждем "Суету вокруг дивана 2". Срывайте маски )))
  68. +1
    27 July 2014 21: 16
    - А есть ли ,вообще, чёткое понимание того, что происходит на Украине... Похоже, что каждый видит в происходящем - желаемое!
    - Тут тебе и перманентная революция, и борьба с фашизмом, и криминальный передел, и борьба сверхдержав за ресурсы... ну и конечно: " шоб никто не ушел оби..." обделённый, то есть... даже начало БП мерещится! laughing
    - Смута, одним словом... Ну, и как лечиться будем? Прозекторов и проктологов до хрена - диагностов нету!
    - Пока отсутствует единое понимание проблемы (если таковое вообще возможно)- не будет и решения проблемы... Хотя, дайте больному синюю таблетку - если не поможет, а пациент ещё будет жив - дайте красную...
  69. LCA
    +2
    27 July 2014 22: 35
    There is a question: What idea can you give your life for?

    Answer: For the one without whom life becomes worthless.

    — Это касается как эпохальных идей, на воплощение которых люди работали, работают и будут работать самоотверженно, подчас жертвуя собой; так и заведомо неудовлетворимых притязаний измельчавшего эгоизма…

    Последний склонен к суициду в случае, если его иллюзии в отношении осуществимости притязаний развеиваются.
  70. +2
    28 July 2014 14: 52
    Очень точно автор ключевое звено в цепи нащупал, - "ЗА ЧТО БОРЕМСЯ?"
  71. -1
    28 July 2014 15: 48
    Первоначальный клич «за присоединение к России» был технично отфутболен самой Россией.

    Не отфутболили, а здраво оценили ситуацию. Крым принял решение сразу и результат мы видим. А что происходило на юго-востоке? Они митинговали и говорил мы будем добиваться, чтобы правительство нас услышало. А когда их начали давить, то Россия спасай, а спасать было уже поздно. Так что сейчас Россия делает то, что нужно, чтобы помочь.

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"