One step before winning the sea

A century ago, the Russian fleet played a key role in the war with Germany and Turkey

Autumn 1914 of the year in Crimea. The velvet season is in full swing, the magnolias are blooming for a long time. On the embankment of Yalta, charming ladies with and without dogs walk to the sounds of a military band. They are accompanied by gallant gentlemen. As if there is no war, thousands of non-devoted Russian soldiers do not lie in the swamps of East Prussia. It's so far from here. Every day a steam locomotive with one car leaves the peninsula in St. Petersburg. He carries flowers to the court of the Empress. Only the military does not share the good mood.

Commander of the Black Sea fleet Admiral Andrei Eberhard regularly receives radio reports from Constantinople. At the beginning of September, two German cruisers entered the local Golden Horn Bay: the Goeben and the Breslau. Warships of non-Black Sea countries could not enter there, except on an official visit for a period of not more than a day. Russia knocked this condition out of its Western partners, mindful of the bitter lessons of the Crimean War. But neutral at that moment, Turkey misses the German squad of ships. In a secret Russian correspondence, these cruisers are now referred to as "uncle" and "nephew."

"Flying German"

The liner “Goben” was named by the sailors “The Flying German” for its phenomenal 28 knots speed at that time. 280-mm guns of the main caliber and by coincidence armor of the same thickness made it almost invulnerable to Russian guns.

The “uncle” with the “nephew” went on combat duty in the Mediterranean in 1912 year. Even then it was clear that war was inevitable. The Germans were afraid of dark-skinned Zouavas from French North Africa like fire. Their courage, as boundless as it was merciless, they remembered from the Franco-Prussian War of the 1870 of the year. Cruisers were supposed to prevent the transfer of colonial troops from Algeria to France. But the Goeben itself inspired the Admirals of the Entente with such horror that against the only two German ships of Rear Admiral Wilhelm Souchon the British fleet held ten cruisers and eight destroyers in the Mediterranean. However, even with such a balance of power, the British managed to miss the moment when Souchon quickly went to the coast of Algeria. Here, the Germans, violating all the customs of the war, raised the Russian flag, freely approached the ports of Philipville and Bon and destroyed the marinas from which the vessels with the Zuavy were to leave.

After the perfidious attack, Souchon brought his ships to Sicily. The British looked through the binoculars standing on the roads cruisers, not daring to disturb the peace of neutral Italians. Soon the German grand admiral Alfred von Tirpitz ordered to go to Constantinople. It’s not for nothing that the cunning Sushon started a provocation with the Russian flag. The Black Sea and its Russian ports are the main goal of the Germans. At stake was a big bet: to break through to the Turkish shores and by their presence persuade the Sultan to enter the war with Russia.

The British pursued "Goeben" and "Breslau" as in a game of cat and mouse. The advantage in the speed and range of the guns allowed the Germans to keep the enemy at a distance. To give a volley, the British needed to substitute the sides under the fire of the main caliber of the “Geben”, which they were not ready for. In two months, the Russians will dare to come to grips with the Flying German. In the meantime, two shells on the Breslau deck are all that His Majesty’s fleet has achieved.

But the race across the Mediterranean was expensive for the German cruisers: the boilers of the "Geben" worked at the limit. Guido Knopp, the future famous military historian, and then a radio operator, recalled that four firemen died, scalded with steam. The ships did not have enough coal, they rushed around the sea in search of a coal miner, not disdaining to take away fuel from oncoming merchant ships. 10 August they anchored in the Dardanelles with completely empty coal pits.

One step before winning the seaAt that moment, the crumbling Glitter of the Port hesitated. On the one hand, it is still a great power, it controls strategic territories, and on the other hand, in the words of Nicholas I, it is a “sick man of Europe”. Sultan tried to maneuver between the giants, but 2 in August London requisitioned the battleships Reshadie and Sultan Osman First, which were built at British shipyards by order of Turkey.

The Ottoman Empire was left without a modern fleet and rushed into the iron arms of Kaiser Wilhelm, who received a springboard for striking Russia from the south. September 27 Turks announced the closure of the Dardanelles, mining it. The Black Sea Fleet was cut off from the allies. But it was precisely this theater that was central to the empire, since there were no significant geopolitical interests on the western borders. But hundreds of thousands of lives were paid in payment of allied debt in East Prussia and Galicia.

80 percent of Russian exports came from the ports of the Black and Azov Seas. The decrepit Turkey from the last forces clung to the control over the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles - the only thing that made the great powers reckon with it. For a thousand years, Russia has fought for the straits, but the West was not going to hand it the keys to them. Who knows whether the requisition of Turkish dreadnoughts and passivity in the pursuit of "Goeben" was due to the real purpose of the British - to send the Germans to the east, to tie the hands of the Russian army and navy.

Further developments would have been envied by Khoja Nasreddin himself. Turkey announced the purchase of "Geben" and "Breslau." Of course, the deal is fictitious, in the treasury of the Sultan there is no money for such luxury. Nevertheless, red flags with a star and a crescent were raised on the masts, and new names, “Yavuz Sultan Selim” and “Midilli”, were quickly brought out on the sides. The crews on the 90 percent remained Germanic, and for the propriety of the officers' gentlemen they delicately asked to change the white caps to the red fez. Two admirals and ten senior officers who made up the headquarters of Admiral Souchon, the new commander of the Ottoman Empire’s fleet, urgently arrived from Germany.

As Henry Morgentau recalls, the then American ambassador to Turkey, not all of the Turkish elite were delighted. “Do we really need this war?” The sultan Mehmed V. asked the court courtiers. They led him to the window and showed the guard of the German sailors around the perimeter of the palace. Immediately came the message about the loan 100 million francs in gold. Usually restrained and correct, the Germans changed the sense of proportion. "Goeben" was anchored in front of the mansion of the Russian Embassy. The personnel poured out onto the deck, defiantly took off the fez, put on native headdresses and sang German hiking songs for an hour. The beginning of hostilities in the Black Sea was a matter of several days.

First blood

On October 28, the trading ship "Queen Olga" radioed to Sevastopol, that he saw a detachment of ships leaving the Bosphorus, among them the "Goeben". But the command of the Black Sea Fleet kept calm. It remains a mystery why a minefield was not installed at the entrance to the most important port of Odessa. As always, the war began for Russia unexpectedly, although in Germany they did not particularly conceal the strategic goal of creating the axis Berlin-Constantinople-Baghdad. The block would allow to control the restless Balkans, the Eastern Mediterranean, the oil-bearing Middle East, to provide access to the Indian Ocean.

At night, two Turkish destroyers, Mouavinet and Gayret, entered the harbor of Odessa without hindrance and threw their whole stock of torpedoes and artillery shells into business. The gunboat “Donets” was sunk, the Kubanets gunboat and the mine layer Beshtau were disabled, several moorings were destroyed, the famous Potemkin stairs were damaged. At dawn, the Turks went to sea with impunity, their raid claimed the lives of 25 Russian sailors. It is not difficult to imagine what would happen if “Goeben” and “Breslau” appeared in Odessa.

But the "uncle" and "nephew" were looking for bigger prey. A few hours later, "Goeben" fired at Sevastopol. Again, due to inexplicable negligence, the harbor electrical mine protection system did not work. It was simply turned off, because they were waiting for the Prut mine layer. For some reason, the battleships standing on the roads did not receive an order to go to sea and take the fight. It is said that the Tsushima syndrome was strong among Russian sailors. Fortunately, the Germans could not inflict significant damage to the main base of the Black Sea Fleet, the coastal batteries did not allow them to conduct aimed fire.

At the exit from Sevastopol, the “Goben” intercepted the Prut returning to the base. After the shelling, the minzag caught fire. To prevent the ship from getting to the enemy, the Russian sailors blew up a mine fixed to the bottom. "Prut" went under the water, killed 23 sailor, the rest of the boats reached the shore. According to Knopp, only the ship's priest did not want to leave the Prut and died with the Bible in his hands. This made a great impression on the German sailors. Just as a desperate attack of three destroyers, accidentally colliding with "Goeben." They rushed to the rescue "Prut", having no chance of success. The German cruiser badly damaged the destroyer Lieutenant Pushchin, but the cruiser commander, captain of the mission Zee Ackermann preferred to withdraw from the battlefield and turn away towards the Bosphorus.

The next day, the Turkish cruiser Gamidiye fired upon Theodosius and sank the Russian merchant ship. A little later, Breslau tried to land troops at Batumi. Since Turkey did not formally enter the war, and Turkish flags were flown on German ships, the Russian command issued an order not to take part in an emergency unless necessary. But such a need will arise very soon. The Germans and the Turks hosted on the Black Sea, fired ports, sank two warships of Russia with impunity. It was obvious that this could not last long.

On the morning of November 18, a squad of eight Russian ships led by the battleship Evstafy discovered the Geben and Breslau. The Germans tried to leave, using the advantage in speed, but the Russians blocked the enemy’s path and pushed back to Cape Sarych between Sevastopol and Yalta. “Breslau” fell behind and was away from the scene of the action, so that only his “uncle” fought. The first volleys sounded in 12.24. Thick fog prevented the aimed fire, besides the Germans put a smoke screen and the advantage in the number of ships did not play a special role. Slow-moving Russian cruisers could only interfere with each other, and Admiral Ebergard sent only Eustathia to battle. Its speed is only 16 nodes, but the main caliber is 305 millimeters.

An artillery duel lasted just 14 minutes. The main caliber of each opposing ship fired 20 shells per minute or six tons of metal. The commander of the battleship, captain of the 1 rank, Vasily Galanin, realizing that he had little time, the German could at any moment change his mind about fighting and flee, went to a closest approach with the enemy. The first salvo "Evstafiya" covered "Goeben", 12 sailors died instantly. The next hit covered the 152-mm projectiles in the cellar, a fire and serious damage began, and the Russians continued beating the enemy. This brief battle claimed the lives of 115 sailors and Kaiser officers against 33 killed on Eustathia. According to Knopp's memoirs, the Goben's casemates represented a terrible picture: “Death gathered its harvest, the brave men lay shabby and torn to pieces, others sit, seemingly unharmed, leaning on the bulkheads. With yellow faces - the result of hellfire. "

"Uncle" and "nephew" hastily went to Constantinople to lick their wounds. The Russian squadron, meanwhile, sent three Turkish bulk carriers to the bottom. The masquerade was over, and Sultan Mehmed declared war on the Russian Empire as his firman.

Soon the Russians lured the Goben into a minefield trap. Two holes in the hull again forced the cruiser to become a repair. Russian destroyers managed to set the 240 min at the entrance to the Bosphorus. In that war, they had no equal in the world. Minelayers "Ksenia" and "Konstantin" worked tirelessly. The Turkish cruiser “Berk-i-Satvet”, minelayer “Nilufer”, gunboat “Nevsehir” and a bit later “Breslau” were blown up on their mines. At the very Bosphorus, the “nephew” ran into a mine and was out of action for seven months.

In the spring of 1915, the Black Sea Fleet launched six raids to the Bosphorus. Batteries and coastal fortifications were severely damaged. Fort Riva was destroyed as a result of a direct hit in the arsenal. The defense of the Turkish capital was not as impregnable as previously thought. A plan for landing on the Bosphorus, drawn up thirty years earlier by the great Stepan Makarov, was extracted from the archives. The assault on Constantinople was supposed when the dreadnought "Empress Maria" was put into operation, but circumstances corrected all plans.

Two battleships usually went to the line of fire, the rest guarded the area of ​​operation in case an evil “uncle” appeared. The air transport “Nikolay I” with five seaplanes also constituted the attack group. The aircraft were first used by the Russian fleet for reconnaissance and bombing. At that time, our air advantage was absolute. The reconnaissance aircraft found the Goeben flying at full speed in time. After a short artillery duel, two hits of 305-millimeter shells from “Eustache” made the German go back home. It became clear that its technical superiority does not play a decisive role.

In 1915, in addition to the sea aviation submarines became an important factor. With their help, the Black Sea Fleet managed to block the delivery of coal from the port of Zunguldak to the Bosphorus, where the main enemy forces were based. In just one raid, four coal miners sunk the submarines. The German-Turkish squadron more and more often remained in the raid due to lack of fuel.

But the enemy did not sit with folded arms. German submarines destroyed five Russian merchant ships. “Goeben” managed to approach the Crimean and Caucasian coasts several times and bombard Novorossiysk, Batum and Yalta. In December, Turkish commanders landed 24 troops in Bessarabia with cavalrymen dressed in Russian uniforms contrary to the laws and customs of war. They were supposed to blow up the railway and die heroically, because they didn’t even have a theoretical chance to return. Only the second part of the perfidious plan was removed. The assault force was detected and neutralized immediately after the landing. Not succeeded and the new attack of Odessa. It was conceived by the Turks as revenge for the bombing of the Bosphorus. A detachment of two cruisers and four destroyers went on a raid, but the flagship, the cruiser Medjediye, hit a mine on approaching the Russian port. The Turks had to leave, and the Russians soon raised the sunken cruiser and put it into operation under the name Prut in memory of the deceased minelayer.

Remember all

Judging by the map of hostilities, it seemed that a crushing blow would have been delivered to Germany and Turkey from the Mediterranean, the allied fleets on the Entente would be united and the campaign would soon end. 18 March 1915, the Anglo-French armada of 16 battleships and Allied battleships approached the Dardanelles. The government in Constantinople prepared for evacuation. Before that, for four days there was a continuous shelling of Turkish fortifications on the Gallipoli peninsula, covering the entrance to the Dardanelles. But shore batteries survived.

After bloody battles, the Allies still managed to land a landing, consisting mainly of Australian and New Zealand soldiers. The Turkish units commanded by Kemal Atatürk, the future leader of the nation, held off the Allies for six months. Having lost 265 of thousands of soldiers and officers in a bloody meat grinder, in November 1915, the Anglo-French command evacuated the remnants of the expeditionary force from Gallipoli.

Not much more successfully acted fleet of the allies. In just one day on March 18, three battleships were blown up by mines. Soon, three more were killed by torpedoes fired from German submarines and the Turkish destroyer Muavenet, the one that attacked Odessa in the fall of 1914. The British were able to bring to the asset only two Turkish battleships sunk in the Sea of ​​Marmara. Coupled with the defeat of Gallipoli, it was a fiasco of Paris and London.

The Allies left for the Mediterranean, and the Russians had to confront the German-Turkish squadron alone. But the successes of our army and navy finally forced Western partners to turn to the interests of Russia. In the same year 1915, a secret agreement was signed between London and Petrograd, according to which, after victory, Russia would gain complete control over the Bosporus and the Dardanelles, guaranteed influence in the dominions of the Ottoman Empire in Europe. In turn, the sphere of influence of Great Britain extended to the Turkish territories in Asia. So could look like the most important part of the peace treaty at Versailles. In this case, the huge sacrifices that Russia suffered in the First World War would not have been in vain. The country could significantly strengthen its position in the world, but the revolution brought it out of the war and the composition of the victorious powers.

In January, 1916, a revival reigned in the camp of the opponents of Russia. The movement of passenger trains on the route Berlin - Constantinople. But a few more days later a much more serious vehicle was put into operation: the dreadnought "Empress Maria" entered the Black Sea.

On January 8, Russian destroyers in the southern part of this sea destroyed Turkish transport, the nearby “Goeben” set off after them in pursuit and ran into the powerful “Empress” head-on. The main Russian caliber began to work from a distance of 110 cable, that is, 20 kilometers. The recent master of the sea responded with just five salvos. Akkerman quickly realized that the duel with the guns of the new battleship would be the last in his life, and considered it a blessing. From that moment it became clear who is the master at sea now. The “Maria” 12 guns with 305 caliber of millimeters did not leave “Geben” chances. Moreover, Russian destroyers and submarines with the support of naval aviation regularly heated transports with coal. The “uncle” with the “nephew” dared only to short raids and raids.

Russian ships dominated the entire basin. Their safety was provided by the Empress Maria and the dreadnought of the same type, Empress Catherine the Great. Gunboats and destroyers bombarded the cluster of troops in the eastern part of the Turkish coast. Here in the midst of the land operation was the imperial army. The firepower of the ships suppressed and demoralized the resistance of the Turks. On March 5, a landing force landed at the mouth of the river Buyuk-dere, a few hours later at the town of Mepavri - the second. In mid-April, the landing force captured the strategically important port of Trabzon and a bridgehead within a radius of fifty kilometers around. This allowed the Russian ground forces to develop an offensive in the rear of the Turkish army.

The Germans tried to counterattack. In July, “Goeben” and “Breslau” made a daring raid to the shores of the Caucasus. They shelled Novorossiysk and Tuapse, sank three ships, set hundreds of mines. Admiral Eberhard again showed startling indecision without sending a squadron to destroy the enemy. After all, the advantage of Russian ships in firepower was overwhelming. The admiral was reminded of the passivity of 1914 in the attacks of "Goben" on Odessa and Sevastopol and sent to serve the king as a member of the Council of State. His place was taken by 42-year-old Vice-Admiral Alexander Kolchak.

Yet 1916 was the year of success for the Russian army and navy, a rematch for the failures at the beginning of the war. Brusilovsky breakthrough on land, the victories of the army in Transcaucasia, successes in maritime affairs gave hope for a favorable outcome of the war. The sailors were waiting for the command to bombard and storm Constantinople. Mines set by the Russians locked up the enemy’s fleet at the bases; Russian landings landed on the coast of Turkey made a turning point in the campaign on this sector of the front. The Germans relied on the excellent fighting qualities of the Goben was not justified. They failed to inflict serious damage to our coastal bases, to ensure the landing of their troops, to paralyze the movement of the merchant fleet. Before the victory in the Black Sea, Russia remained one step.

But other forces intervened. Not everything in wars is decided by the talent of admirals and the courage of sailors. October 6, under still unclear circumstances, exploded and sank the battleship Empress Maria. It was a sad point in the success of the royal fleet in the southern theater of operations. From February 1917 began the gradual collapse of the country and its armed forces. Sailors of the warring parties were drawn into a bloody circle. The Black Sea Fleet died at the hands of the Bolsheviks, Ukrainian nationalists and occupiers. The uprising in the Kaiser fleet in 1918 was the beginning of the revolution in Germany and the most painful pages in stories of this country. And the exploits of the Russian sailors off the coast of the Crimea and Turkey were undeservedly forgotten during the Soviet period. In the West, they prefer to talk only about their victories, while in our war with the label "imperialist" for almost a century was a taboo ...
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  1. +4
    23 July 2014 10: 17
    Today is a nightmare of discovery. First, this is
    And now there are absolutely nightmarish "discoveries" on the Black Sea in the First World War ...
    There is no point in analyzing in detail - there are three errors in each sentence. But here it is
    For some reason, the battleships standing on the roads did not receive an order to go to sea and accept the battle. They say that the “Tsushima syndrome” was strong among Russian sailors

    The author apparently does not know how much time it takes an armadillo with a steam engine to separate couples and be ready to go to sea. The attack, if anything, happened suddenly, and Goeben shot at the 17 port for minutes, after which he heroically fled.
    On the morning of November 18, a detachment of eight Russian ships led by the battleship Eustathius discovered Geben and Breslau. The Germans tried to leave, taking advantage of the speed advantage, but the Russians blocked the enemy’s path and pushed him to Cape Sarych between Sevastopol and Yalta.

    The author's fantasies. Of course, there was nothing of the kind. The cruiser Almaz discovered enemy ships not far from the main forces, Eberhard began a 90-degree turn so that his battleships could hit the enemy with their entire side. Unfortunately, he did not make it in time - the distance was too small (poor visibility, the enemy was discovered late), so the battle was reduced to a duel between Goeben and Eustathius.
    The artillery duel lasted only 14 minutes. The main caliber of each opposing ship produced 20 shells per minute or six tons of metal.

    Lying. For 14 minutes of battle, Eustathius fired either 12 or 16 shells of the main caliber (discrepancies in the sources). Goben - 19.
    The battleship commander, captain of the 1 rank, Vasily Galanin, realizing that he has little time, the German can change his mind at any time to fight and run away, went to the maximum rapprochement with the enemy.

    Firstly, there was no rapprochement - the course of Eustathius did not change after the turn. Secondly, the admiral was at Eustathia, in his presence no caperang could command a course change.
    1. +5
      23 July 2014 10: 17
      The first salvo of Eustathia covered the Goeben, 12 sailors died instantly. The next hit covered the cellar of 152-mm shells, a fire started and serious damage, and the Russians continued beating the enemy. This brief battle claimed the lives of 115 sailors and Kaiser officers against the 33 killed at Eustache. According to Knopp’s recollections, the Goeben casemates were a terrible picture: “Death gathered its harvest, the brave men lie shredded and torn to pieces, others are sitting, apparently unscathed, leaning on bulkheads. With yellow faces - the result of exposure to hellfire "

      Alternative history. Firstly, there are no "Knopp memories" in nature, but there are Kopp, G. Das Teufelsschiff und seine kleine Schwester, Erlebnisse des “Goeben” - Leipzig: V. Hase & Koehler, 1930.
      Secondly - according to Kopp's memoirs (as well as the combat diary of Goeben, a fragment of which was published in the book of the famous researcher and historian Gary Staff "BATTLE ON THE SEVEN SEAS. German Cruiser Battles 1914-1918") during the battle at Cape Sarych, in "Goeben "hit 1 (ONE) shell. And, of course, no "115 sailors and officers of the Kaiser."
      there are also notes by Admiral Souchon in which he writes
      With the first shot we got hit 30,5 see projectile, as a result of a hole on the port side in the armor of the third 15 see casemate. At the same time, twelve people were lost instantly dead, whose bodies were terribly mutilated.

      If there were other hits, there is no information about this in German sources.
  2. Crang
    23 July 2014 11: 26
    The author you are a little wrong. The main caliber of the "Empress Mary" at an elevation angle of 305mm guns in +25 degrees and 471-kg shells hit 23,5km (125 cables). The main caliber of the previous Russian battleships of the "battleship squadron" subclass ("Efstafiy", "Panteleimon", etc.) at an elevation angle of 305mm guns +35 degrees and 332-kg shells Model 1907g and later hit 25km (135 cables) ... 283mm guns "Goebena" fired at 25,5 km (138 cables). According to the capabilities of the FCS, the effective firing range of all these ships was limited to approximately 100-110 cables.
  3. +1
    23 July 2014 11: 34
    The material is interesting, even with errors that Andrei from Chelyabinsk found in large numbers
    1. +13
      23 July 2014 12: 09
      Yes, it’s a shame just when such a fertile topic as the actions of the Black Sea Fleet in WWII issue like this ...
      Interestingly, the Russian Black Sea fleet fought in five minutes exemplary. Having only old battleships in their composition, they carried out operations in spite of the "geben", and if the first collision with him (at Cape Sarych) passed, in general, without much result ("by points", i.e. by the number of hits, nevertheless "Goeben" was in the lead, but what's the point of it, if he had to flee from the Russian ships without a glance? However, in fairness, we note that Eberhard was also not eager to continue the battle), then the second clash remained strictly with our sailors - the Germans write about two hits in Goeben, and he again had to urgently retreat :))) Although he actually fought only against two of our battleships, to which "Panteleimon" was later added. Goeben himself did not hit even once. And after the appearance of the dreadnoughts, things became quite sour ...
      But besides this, the assets of the Russian fleet:
      1) Systematic fighting to cut the Turkish sea lanes, causing huge damage to the Turks
      2) No less systematic support for the coastal flank of the armies, supply of own troops, direct support.
      3) EMNIP, for the first time in the history of steam fleets - landing operations coordinated with the army, i.e. JOINT efforts of the army and navy to achieve results. Neither English, nor French, nor German fleets demonstrated anything like this.
      About such "trifles" as the successful use of the world's first underwater minelayer "Crab" or about the "disgustingly armored" Russian dreadnoughts, from which "Goeben" fled without looking back, without even risking even trying to compete one-on-one in artillery pieces, I am completely silent.
      In addition, the Russian Black Sea Fleet advanced naval science in at least two areas. Both the English and German fleets defended in the bases, very rarely going out to sea and conducting, in fact, one-off actions - at the same time, the Russian Black Sea, in terms of eliminating Turkish communications and supporting the army, switched to systematic combat work when it was relentlessly, daily ... :))))) And secondly, in all the fleets of the world the following was then accepted - command was carried out by the formations of the same type of ships. Those. the destroyer division has its own command, the cruiser brigade has its own, the battleship brigade has its own. And if it was necessary to create a connection of cruisers / battleships / destroyers, then several such compounds (or individual ships from them) were combined under the command of the appointed admiral.
      And at the World Cup they switched to battle groups when several ships of different classes (battleship, cruisers, destroyers) were combined into one compound. The benefits of such a solution in terms of coherence, fusion, combat training, and simply the convenience of supply are obvious. Americans came to the same system only in World War II (the famous TaskForse)
      In general, unlike the Baltic, at the World Cup we really have something to be proud of, and in some ways we were completely ahead of the rest :)
      1. +3
        23 July 2014 14: 37
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        In general, unlike the Baltic, at the World Cup we really have something to be proud of, and in some ways we were completely ahead of the rest :)

        Bravo Andrey!
        1. +5
          23 July 2014 14: 49
          Thank you! drinks
          PS That's what I really regret - that the Black Sea battleships were "dropped" their design speed from 23 to 21 knots. If the "Empresses" were built according to the Baltic (it is possible - an improved, but twenty-three-knot) project, the "Goeben" would be rolled into a thin pancake. Or ... would have dragged the Geben to Sevastopol in tow :)))
          1. Crang
            23 July 2014 14: 59
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            This is what I regret very much - that the Black Sea battleships were "dropped" their design speed from 23 to 21 knots. If the "Empresses" were built according to the Baltic (it is possible - an improved, but twenty-three-knot) project, the "Goeben" would be rolled into a thin pancake.

            21uz is the standard for battleships of that period. And it would be 23 ... First of all, by what? We don't need the second Sevastopoli. And secondly, "Goeben" not to catch up would be all the same. And so the Black Sea dreadnoughts, in contrast to the Baltic ones, were quite balanced battleships with not only powerful weapons, but also good protection and seaworthiness at a normal level, and everything else.
            1. +2
              23 July 2014 15: 16
              Quote: Krang
              21 is the standard for battleships of that period. And it would be 23 ... First, due to what?

              Yes, if only by repeating the Baltic project.
              Quote: Krang
              We don't need the second Sevastopoli

              I would argue with that.
              Quote: Krang
              And secondly, "Goeben" not to catch up would be all the same.

              Most likely - would have caught up. Geben had some advantage over the Russian battleship (on the 3 node, it seems), but he was in the reach of his guns for about half an hour. If the advantage were in the 1 node, it would take all one and a half, and during this time much could happen.
              In addition, I have some doubts that Goeben had more than 24-node speed.
              1. Crang
                23 July 2014 15: 40
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                I would argue with that.

                You want to say that the Baltic dreadnoughts of the "Sevastopol" type are more perfect than the Black Sea dreadnoughts of the "Alexander-III" type ??? And this is news to be honest. I thought like that everyone already knew that the Black Sea battleships turned out to be quite successful (for the 1912-14-ies where they were somewhat late), but the Baltic ones were not a very successful hybrid of a battleship and a battle cruiser, and with such fatal flaws that they were afraid to release them into the sea.
                1. +2
                  23 July 2014 15: 54
                  Quote: Krang
                  You want to say that the Baltic dreadnoughts of the "Sevastopol" type are more perfect than the Black Sea dreadnoughts of the "Alexander-III" type ??? And this is news to be honest

                  This is not the point :))) In general and in general, the Black Sea residents turned out to be significantly better protected, as for seaworthiness - it's hard to say, the nose trim was too great, but probably still better than the Baltic. But the fact is that knowing their fate, we understand that these advantages, alas, turned out to be unclaimed. If these battleships had gotten to fight the Friedrich der Grosse, then it would certainly be much better to do it on the “Maria” than on the “Sevastopol”. But the Black Sea dreadnoughts did not have to fight against an equal enemy, they did not receive artillery strikes from the main battleships of other battleships. The only opportunity they had to express themselves loudly was just the fight with "Goeben". And in those specific conditions (duel at long distances + light 280-m German shell), the relatively weak armor of the Baltic would not have been such a terrible drawback. Those. "Sevastopol", if he were in the place of "Catherine" in that particular situation, in my opinion, he could still kick Sushona's aphedron.
                  Quote: Krang
                  but the Baltic ones were not a very successful hybrid of a battleship and a battle cruiser, and with such fatal flaws that they were afraid to launch them at sea

                  I suppose the reason there was not in "fatal shortcomings" was, but simply in the fear of using battleships against the superior forces of the Germans. By the way, be it said, 2 battleships were allowed to be used without the approval of the Bet.
                  1. Crang
                    23 July 2014 16: 03
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    as for seaworthiness - it’s hard to say, the trim on the nose was very great, but it was probably better than the Baltic people.

                    Firstly, the trim on the nose - this also applies to the "Sevastopol". Secondly, "Sevastopoli" were smooth-deck. And the height of the side in the bow was the same as in the stern - about two interdeck spaces, which is very small. But the Chernomorites had an impressive forecastle and their nose was no lower than that of the Borodino or Oslyabya series. And in general, it is not only about security. Chernomorets had a more powerful medium / anti-mine caliber and did not have such a shortage of the Baltic ones as a very small power reserve (much less than even that of Peter the Great).
                    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                    lightweight 280th German shell)

                    Well, how light ... 302kg if my memory serves me. Moreover, the Goeben's 283mm guns gave them a very high muzzle velocity. And at long distances, deck protection also plays a role. In general, I would have gone against "Goeben" better on "Alexander III", and not on "Gangut".
                    1. +3
                      23 July 2014 16: 43
                      Quote: Krang
                      Firstly, trim on the nose - this also applies to "Sevastopol"

                      Yes, but at least they did not have to lighten the ammunition of the bow tower - and even despite this, the trim of the Black Sea people is visible to the naked eye.
                      Quote: Krang
                      Secondly, "Sevastopoli" were smooth-deck. And the height of the side in the bow was the same as in the stern - about two interdeck spaces, which is very small. But the Black Sea men had an impressive forecastle

                      Yes, the Lord is with you! :))) Here is a photo of "Empress Mary", as soon as you find an "impressive forecastle" on it - let me know :))

                      Quote: Krang
                      Chernomorets had a more powerful medium / anti-mine caliber and did not have such a shortage of the Baltic ones as a very small power reserve (much less than even that of Peter the Great).

                      True, but in the conditions of the tiny black sea, the cruising range was not critical, and the 120-mm secondary battery of Sevastopol, given the lack of modern destroyers in Turkey, is preferable to the 130-mm "empresses". The fact is that it is much harder to turn over 130 mm shells, so 120 mm will give a denser fire. The 130-mm is taken with the great power of the projectile, but I repeat, since the Turks do not have large destroyers, this is not required.
                      Quote: Krang
                      Well, how easy ... 302kg if my memory serves me

                      Doesn't change. But this is not a 471 kg 12 "Russian shell and not a 405 kg 12" German one.
                      The German twelve-inch almost by 30% surpasses the 280-mm gebena in projectile energy (if we count through E = ms squared), while a light projectile loses armor penetration much faster than a heavy one.
                      Quote: Krang
                      Moreover, the Goeben's 283mm guns gave them a very high muzzle velocity.

                      880 m / s versus 855 m / s of the German 12 "gun.
                      Quote: Krang
                      And at long distances there is also deck protection.

                      Of course, but here, oddly enough, the combination of the deck and 75-mm barbets of Sevastopol could well be enough.
                      Quote: Krang
                      In general, I would have gone against "Goeben" better on "Alexander III", and not on "Gangut".

                      Catherine was a little worse, but just could not catch up :)))
                      1. +1
                        23 July 2014 16: 50
                        And by the way, be it said - I strongly doubt that "Peter the Great" could have covered 1625 miles at 13 knots
                      2. Crang
                        23 July 2014 17: 56
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        Yes, the Lord is with you! :))) Here is a photo of "Empress Mary", as soon as you find an "impressive forecastle" on it - let me know :))

                        That is:
                      3. +2
                        23 July 2014 18: 14
                        This is not a real photo, but an alternative historical fake :))) I myself sometimes dabble in such things :))) Can't you see that the towers are two-armed? :))) Here is the original (someone turned it upside down :)) )
                      4. Crang
                        23 July 2014 18: 37
                        Mdaaa .... Some garbage.
                      5. +2
                        23 July 2014 19: 28
                        And you go either to or tsushima, to the alternative photos section - there you can not find that either :)))
                        Here, for example, dreadnought-catamaran :))
                      6. +1
                        23 July 2014 19: 35
                        And how do you like such a handsome man? :)

                        Or even like that?

                        Oh, by the way, and your Alexander III is from Tsushima, just now he drew attention
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. +1
              24 July 2014 13: 37
              Quote: Krang
              First, by what? We don't need the second Sevastopoli.
              I had to read that the Baltic dreadnoughts were not the best solution as battleships, but Andrey can be supported by the fact that on the basis of these ready-made projects they could quickly create battle cruisers for the Black Sea by reducing the number of main caliber towers, from four to three, and some lengthening of the body (as, possibly, with an increase in the power of the power plant). Perhaps, for the Black Sea, such battle cruisers would be preferable to an improved battleship design, in any case, they could be built faster for the further construction of more advanced battleships. A battle cruiser with a stroke of 25-26 knots and 9 mm guns could drive the Goeben, all the more so if there were a couple of such cruisers.
      2. +4
        25 July 2014 21: 02
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        fought the Russian Black Sea Fleet without five minutes exemplary.

        I agree, the Black Sea Fleet acted brilliantly, against the background of everything else, and in general the pride of Russia. The author, of course, was a little carried away, but the style and arrangement of the material is just a fairy tale, I will take it to the piggy bank of pedagogical experience. Of course, with your edits.

        Thanks to everyone who develops the topic, which I call "Glory to Russian Weapons".
  4. +1
    23 July 2014 12: 02
    I look, according to the description of Odessa in general in the wars, they defended it? Well, Shchegolev was lucky, but here in general the main trading port is generally without security ... Nikolaev shipyards --- if there? Although the defeat of the shipyards is a long business, but nevertheless, there the Imperial Series is being built ... also an option ...
    In general, a "sudden" attack of enemies - and the empire usually rekindled later ...
    Although the author is right - at the time of Mary's introduction - the advantage has become overwhelming. The RFM was ready to strike at Istanbul and possibly revive the capture plan. Turkey, as usual, did not shine in the war with RI ... bad statistics for them ..
    1. 0
      23 July 2014 13: 43
      Quote: Cristall

      Although the author is right - at the time of Mary's introduction - the advantage has become overwhelming.

      at the time of Mary's introduction, few have changed.
      The ship must receive an experienced team in order to become effective.
      I would put it differently - from the moment Mary was introduced, the advantage began to grow to the overwhelming.
  5. 0
    24 July 2014 01: 02
    It is better to have an overwhelming advantage (and of course to realize it in business) than to take risks. I will not open the truth to this.
    By the way, in addition to mines, seaplanes were also widely used (like Orlitsa on BM)
    Despite Goeben and Breslau - in Crimea there was still a time of celebrations and festivities (even despite the shelling)
    Similarly in Odessa. Yes, and in Kiev. Before the revolution, even during WW1 - life in the Republic of Ingushetia in the south was interesting.
  6. +3
    24 July 2014 12: 41
    Meanwhile, it was 10 o’clock in the morning, here observation posts right in the north notice something that could roughly correspond to a sailboat. The Goeben immediately turns in that direction. At the next moment, general amazement ensues. As soon as we made a U-turn, something ominously flares up ominously on a distant, smoke-free subject. Brilliant, sparkling sun glare, dancing on the water, a little interfere with visibility. The horizon line, a clear, clear line, seems skewed, the distance blurred. A moment after a strange flash over water, thunder rolls dullly. Damn it! He shoots, what's the matter?
    The bells of a loud battle over the Gebena deck sound sharply. All run to their combat posts. Then everyone at the post expects further developments. Meanwhile, after the outbreak, 20, 30, 40 seconds, 50, 60 seconds pass - here, at once, at a distance of about 500 meters from the Goeben, something strikes with colossal force into the water! Powerful fountains rise instantly, as if raised by a mysterious hand, and then fall again.
    Here’s the answer! There’s a warship! In the sparkling sunlight it seemed like a sailboat. Now everything is clear! It flared up again - and now the newest battleship, the superdreadnought “Empress Maria” is clearly visible! Damn! About 24 km separate us from this colossus, and he is already shooting! Completely unarmed, we are standing in front of the most modern ship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.
    An evil surprise for us! We did not suppose that the monster was already ready and was scurrying along the Black Sea. Of course, we should have counted on this, but so far the “Empress Maria” has not shown up. Now that the battleship is ready, we are now hopelessly abandoned to its long-range guns. The situation is becoming increasingly threatening. Empress Maria shoots damn fast. The second volley of a giant ship falls with a noise at a distance of 200 meters from us.
    Will we get out of the zone of fire in time before the heavy shells reach us? This is the only question that worries us. At such a gigantic distance, we and our guns are helpless. It flares up again! We are looking intensely at the distant silhouette of a Russian battleship.
    Again, tense seconds pass, they stretch like a clock. Now, blows must follow! And here they are! Very close, not reaching even 50 meters from us, heavy "suitcases" hit the water. Now get out of the reach of his fire! Not very good maneuverable qualities of "Goeben" nevertheless occur this time, by the way. With fast running, zigzags, we are retreating.
    Full of excitement, everyone on the bridge looks at the formidable colossus, from whose pipes thick clouds of smoke are now bursting out. He seems to want to attack us! In full swing he is following us. The situation is really quite threatening. We know that the superdreadnought has a speed of 25 knots, so that he can catch up with us. Of course, the Russians are also gaining momentum and following us at maximum speed. Through the binoculars, the powerful nasal waves that the colossus pushes apart are clearly visible. What now?
    True, the Goeben could, thanks to its speed, venture into a surprise attack in order to approach a dangerous enemy at a distance of a shot. We want to maintain captured dominance in the Black Sea. But to fulfill our plan, we need a bomber aircraft, which we now call from the Bosphorus by radio. Aircraft over a warship always mean alarm. While the “Empress Maria” will have to think about her defense, we will be able to fall on the enemy and come to a distance sufficient to open fire. That is our plan. At first, since we are alone, there is nothing left to do but stay at a safe distance from the enemy.
    Wild hunt continues. For three hours now, the superdreadnought has been sitting on our tail and is not far behind. Despite this, we are pleased to note that the distance between us, although slowly but gradually, is increasing.
    On the battle cruiser Geben Georg Kopp
  7. pinecone
    24 July 2014 16: 41
    The article is empty, especially in style of presentation, like those written for the magazine "Vokrug Sveta". About the daily railway. a train with one carriage of Crimean flowers for the empress is complete nonsense, a retelling of the fabrications of the liberal press of that time.
    Thank you for the comments of experts, participants in the forum.
  8. 0
    1 November 2016 19: 25
    Photo No. 513. Geben at Batum.
    From the book "Batum during the Ottoman Empire"

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