“Mean, low, unworthy”

95
The investigation into the tragedy with the downed Malaysian Boeing over Ukraine has not been completed. But the videos on the Internet and the allegedly intercepted negotiations of the militias gave rise to the leaders of Ukraine and other countries, primarily the United States, to blame the militias and Russia for the incident. The experts found that the authors of such statements are based on unverified and even grossly falsified facts.

The situation around the tragedy with the Boeing shot down over Ukraine brought the unfounded accusations from officials to a new level. Without an investigation and expertise, the Ukrainian authorities found ample evidence of the involvement of militias from the South-East in the incident. Moreover, Kiev claims that the Buk anti-aircraft missile system, from which the plane could have been shot down, was handed over to the militia by Russia, and after the tragedy the militia returned the complex back.

First history with the return of "Buk" stated on his page in the social network the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine Arsen Avakov. According to him, "the covert surveillance units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine today, July 18, at 4.50 am recorded a tractor with a loaded tracked missile system, moving in the direction through Krasnodon, towards the border with the Russian Federation." "Presumably, this is exactly the Buk missile system that fired yesterday at the Amsterdam-Kuala Lumpur civilian plane," the minister wrote, adding that "the criminals are trying to hide the traces of this heinous crime."

On Sunday, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, during a telephone conversation with his French counterpart Francois Hollande, said that Kiev has satellite images of the missile launch site and weapons from Russia, interception of terrorists' telephone conversations and other irrefutable evidence. " Later, the United States Secretary of State John Kerry said that the air defense missile system used to destroy the passenger liner was delivered from Russia. "It's pretty clear that this is a system that was handed over from Russia to the hands of the separatists (as the militias are called in the West)," he said, adding that "in the last month, a large consignment of weapons came to Ukraine from Russia."

On Sunday, the American media disseminated information from US intelligence, which, without disclosing the details of the information received, said that Moscow had recently allegedly supplied the Ukrainian militias with modern air defense systems, and then transported them back to Russia.

Earlier on Saturday, the Ukrainian press began to distribute a video and comments that the footage of the Buki, which is being secretly transported from Ukraine to Russia. But experts drew attention to inconsistencies in this story. Victor Levanov, an employee of the Foundation for Open New Democracy, noted that in addition to the "Buk", a banner with the inscription "Autosalon on Dnepropetrovskaya, 34" was included in the frame.
He determined that the video depicts the city of Krasnoarmeysk, which has been under the control of the Ukrainian army since May, and, "accordingly, the militias cannot get there."

According to Ridus, Ukrainian media are distributing collages depicting two Buk installations. Signatures to them claim that the complexes were filmed while crossing the Ukrainian-Russian border.

“Mean, low, unworthy”


The picture is a still frame from this video. It shows a Buk with tail number 312. However, the newspaper notes, the car with this number belongs to Ukraine, because it was "spotted" during the March rotation of Ukrainian troops near Horlivka.



If you look at the map with the route of the plane, then it flew just over this place, and then flew right in the direction where it later fell to the ground.



A video was posted on the Web with, presumably, two machines. But supposedly "Buks" are hidden under the awning, and it is impossible to determine the contents of the cargo for certain.



Ukrainian media began to publish this video as evidence of the transportation of the air defense missile system "back to Russia." However, in the freeze frame, you can see the name of the company nearby - Steel-snab. It is located in the city of Stary Oskol, near the station. Boiler. Kotel and Stary Oskol are very far from the crash site of Flight MH17, and the nearest major Ukrainian city is Kharkov, which is not occupied by militias.

Also, Russian experts called the audio recording of the negotiations of the Ukrainian militias, which allegedly discusses the destruction of the Malaysian Boeing, as a fake. “This sound recording is not an integral file, it is assembled from several fragments,” said Nikolay Popov, one of the most authoritative specialists in the field of sound and speech analysis, an expert of the Target Technologies company.

In particular, he drew attention to the fact that in the first of three fragments, in which the commander of the Gorlovka militia Igor Bezler discusses the downed plane, nothing is said about which plane it is. However, the name of the city of Yenakiyevo is clearly audible. As Bezler himself stated, this conversation did take place, but it was about a Ukrainian attack aircraft shot down the day before over this settlement.

The second fragment of the recording, consisting of three pieces, was presented as a single semantic text. However, the analysis of the spectrum and timestamps showed that the dialogue was cut and edited in the same way. The most revealing moment is short pauses: the file saved time stamps and markers, which indicate that this dialogue was pasted from different episodes.

Linguistic analysis also shows, Popov believes, that those who fabricated this recording clearly did not have enough material and time. Therefore, the meaning of the replicas hardly fits with each other, and the spectral picture of audio materials also differs. But, perhaps, the most revealing point is that with an elementary view of the properties of the audio recording, it turns out that the file was created almost a day before the disaster.

Another statement made the previous evening by the speaker of the NSDC information center, Andrei Lysenko, was revealing. He claimed that the militia used the credit cards of the victims of the disaster and collected personal valuables from the bodies of the victims.
Lysenko's statements caught the attention of Ukrainian journalist Anatoly Shariy. He decided to follow how the world media reacted to the official's words. Some wrote that "the militants pay with passengers' credit cards."

Later, the Association of Banks of the Netherlands took measures so that money could not be withdrawn from cards. As Shariy found out, after reading the press release on the Association's website, it was guided exclusively by media reports, and not by the fact that funds were debited from the cards. However, the media picked up on the Association's statement and began writing that Dutch banks had reported theft of credit cards.

“This is called the stuffing cycle. A simple example: I declare that Lysenko robbed the apartment of a pensioner. This is reported by the media. The Association for the Protection of the Rights of Pensioners learns from the media that Lysenko robbed a pensioner, and makes a statement that it is ready to cover all the expenses of the pensioner that Lysenko inflicted with his theft. After that, the media are already relaying the statement of this association. The average reader understands that the association will not make a statement just like that. So Lysenko is still unclean, ”Shariy explained.

As for Lysenko's words, the journalist emphasized that “you cannot make such statements without having facts in your hands”. “You cannot speculate with a tragedy. You cannot do such "stuffing" when hundreds of relatives do not find a place for themselves from grief. It's mean, it's low, it's unworthy, ”Shariy said, adding that the“ credit cards ”turned out to be debit cards.

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  1. +52
    22 July 2014 18: 32
    Shot down by Ukraine with the support and approval of the United States, all smart people in the world have already understood this. POINT. END OF DISCUSSION.
    1. +63
      22 July 2014 18: 36
      Quote: herruvim
      . POINT. END OF DISCUSSION.

      The story of black boxes is just beginning. Considering Ukrainians (mentally retarded), there will still be a lot of stench
      1. +35
        22 July 2014 19: 22
        I'm not laughing anymore. Here cry just right, from the comments of the ukrovskys.
      2. +5
        22 July 2014 19: 47
        hmm, words can no longer be found. it is not dark, it is black as a box.
      3. +19
        22 July 2014 21: 32
        This is a complete pe ...
        For all 23 years, Samuel did not go to school, but tried to learn from the rock carvings of ancient ukrov - there he learned that the black box should be black laughing
      4. 77bob1973
        +7
        22 July 2014 21: 36
        Because schoolchildren can only comment in this way!
      5. +3
        23 July 2014 01: 04
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        The black box story

        Well, I don't believe that they (dill) are so stupid and illiterate in life ..
        Obviously they are drinking some water from the Ukrainian water utility, and there is something mixed in there!
      6. Vasil9
        0
        23 July 2014 07: 53
        According to international requirements, all "black" boxes (SARPP, MSRP ... and others) are painted bright yellow, but they are executed in armored hulls in order to preserve information as much as possible
      7. 0
        23 July 2014 12: 22
        This is really a "failed state"! Oh, how bitter and nightmarish it will be for ukrov to return to the real world! After all, they will not live forever in this madhouse ...
    2. +12
      22 July 2014 18: 36
      Everyone knows (who understands) -
      Obama shot down this plane!
      Obama, black dog, guilty
      And he himself is so worthy of death ...
      Above him already (let him live for now)
      Hanging Retribution Hand!
      1. 11111mail.ru
        +6
        22 July 2014 20: 14
        Quote: ya.seliwerstov2013
        Everyone knows (who understands) -

        Who understands, he knows:
        Not Barak shot down that plane.
        Svidomo pilot il mercenary
        Only finished! But-
        Rocket-you see it is more reliable
        She's faster, she’s more accurate!
        "They" also remember Powers, as at an incredible height
        His U-2 then got it
        The Russian rocket is quite.
        Now arrange a crawl
        Dill "Bukom" we took
        Board turned up in the train:
        Shoot the thug, don’t miss!
        Yes, it’s a mistake
        They had to finish off the Boeing.
        In this case, they were caught.
        Not all dill "panuvat"!
        But the "Panovs" got excited, forgetting 2001,
        "We didn’t shoot down, the Militias, throwing sneakers on the plane,
        That board was impudently landed "
        (Pissing in their eyes that dew!)
        Barack rubs rubs
        Trying not to sweat too much
        But he understands the beast: In hell, he must burn!
    3. +9
      22 July 2014 18: 36
      Quote: herruvim
      Shot down by Ukraine with the support and approval of the United States, all smart people in the world have already understood this. POINT. END OF DISCUSSION.


      In our World, everyone still needs to prove that you are not a camel.
      1. +4
        22 July 2014 19: 06
        Quote: RUSS
        our World still needs to prove to everyone that you are not a camel.

        I wonder how the dill will prove this if it turns out that the Boeing was shot down from an air cannon or, for example, by an S - 300 missile. On the wreckage, there are no traces of the "Buk" warhead hit.
        1. +5
          22 July 2014 19: 49
          On Politicus, the version with an explosive rocket has been disassembled, the green line is the direction of the rocket from the rear to the left http://politikus.ru/events/24997-ustanovlena-traektoriya-rakety-vozduh-vozduh-vy
          puschennoy-po-malayzyskomu-boingu.html
          1. +1
            22 July 2014 20: 02
            On Pilicus, a fighter and an attack aircraft cannot be distinguished (and a fork and a spoon will be misled).
            According to their logic, all fragments of grenades fly strictly in one direction.
            1. +2
              22 July 2014 22: 35
              Rod warhead

              ... Designed to destroy aircraft. The striking element of the rod warhead are rods of square or circular cross-section. The rods may not be connected to each other, or connected alternately by the upper or lower ends. When detonated, they fly away from the direction of flight of the rocket, forming a continuous ring with the rods connected, and with an intermittent one with overlap when not connected. The rods "cut" the skin and power set of the aircraft, leading to instant destruction of its structure.

              Advantages:

              compactness in comparison with fragmentation or high-explosive fragmentation warheads
              instant destruction of a target in the air

              Disadvantages:

              low speed of ring expansion
              small radius of destruction
              insufficient cutting ability of the rods against some solid targets

              Ammunition representatives

              V-V R-27 R-60 R-73 rockets; AIM-7C / E / F AIM-9D / G / H
              P-V missiles "Strela-10" · SAM Kortik; RIM-24 Tartar RIM-66A Standard-1MR RIM-67A Standard-1ER
            2. +6
              22 July 2014 22: 48
              But we are straining in vain, there are already answers to all questions:
              When asked what would happen if it was proved that the plane was shot down by the Ukrainian army, the answer was evasive, but on the whole definite. Such recognition is impossible, since It is not profitable for the West, but if a miracle happens and irrefutable evidence is found that the plane was shot down by the army, the verdict of experts will be something like this: it is impossible to establish exactly who shot down the plane - the Ukrainian army or the militias, since both have Buki. In any case, Russia will remain "under suspicion."
              http://el-murid.livejournal.com/1936739.html
            3. +1
              22 July 2014 23: 42
              By the way, even though the types of aircraft are confused at Politicus, there is logic. One part of the circle of striking elements passed along the wing and cockpit, and the second cut off the tail, so it lies separately "like a living".
        2. +7
          22 July 2014 21: 26
          Quote: enot73
          I wonder how the dill will prove this if it turns out that the Boeing was shot down from an air cannon or, for example, by an S-300 missile.

          There are no dill S-300s left. There are not many S-200s, well, and the Buk M1. After gaining independence, her mother, the endless process of reforming the armed forces of Ukraine began. First of all, they decided to get rid of the cropped regiments C-75M2 and C-125. Previously, reserve officers, the so-called partisans, were called up to form them, who for a month tried to revive the faulty equipment, and then diligently smeared it with salidol and rolled it into the storage until the next gathering. Now, in the conditions of a market economy, it has become unrealistic to call on partisans and it has become economically impractical to store all that rubbish (S-75M2 and S-125 air defense systems). The complexes were disposed of, and with them almost 2500 missiles 20D, 15D, 13D, 5V27. Then the country's leadership looked around and, not noticing the bestial grin of imperialism at their borders, decided to continue the reduction of the C-75M3 Volkhov and C-125M Neva parts, but no longer dispose of them, but taking into account the interest in this technology from the countries with a dry and hot climate, prepare for implementation. This was partially implemented and neither Volkhov nor Neva remained in the air defense of Ukraine. Then it was the turn of the S-200 air defense system. First, they dismantled all the S-200 "Angara" with 5V21 missiles due to the expiration of the service life and substandard fuel components, and later, for the same reasons, the Vega with 5V28 missiles was cut in half. The third wave of dismantling touched Vega after the tragic incident with the Tu-154 on the Black Sea. As a result, several S-200 complexes remained, the combat effectiveness of which is maintained thanks to the enthusiasm of the calculations, which was proved by the combat launches of the Ukrop crews at the Telemba training ground, and they were already long ago. Everything that is in the air defense of Ukraine is now placed in five lines of the official website of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine.
          But here's what I mean: Flight recorders are taken to Farnborough, in small britain. Men, and what will we see and hear as a result of their "investigation"?
          1. +4
            22 July 2014 22: 19
            IMHO, they will edit and give out the information they need. But why didn’t they conduct it at ICAO? Again, Fashington muddies the water?
            1. 0
              22 July 2014 22: 48
              Quote: wandlitz
              IMHO, they will edit and give out the information they need. But why didn’t they conduct it at ICAO? Again, Fashington muddies the water?

              They say that the ICAO International Center is located in Farnbar, which investigates all the disasters in Europe. Dill, after all, we have Gay Europeans now!
              1. +2
                22 July 2014 23: 15
                ICAO is unlikely. There were no precedents for them. Although nothing is impossible. Let's rely on common sense. Otherwise, it is necessary to get out of the so-called - "international law". Because it is impossible to communicate with non-adyquats, it is harmful to your psyche.
            2. +1
              22 July 2014 23: 10
              In this case, it is unlikely, one way or another, the experts will have their say. And independent ... "Shiloh" is too big.
              We won't hear precise comments in the near future. We are waiting for "s. I want the punishment to find heroes.
              Good health, I wish!
      2. +4
        22 July 2014 19: 46
        You have to prove "that you are not a camel" when you are weak.
        1. +1
          22 July 2014 23: 16
          Quote: Orik
          You have to prove "that you are not a camel" when you are weak.

          Hardly, a soldier - he won't offend a child! wink
        2. 0
          23 July 2014 00: 41
          You have to prove "that you are not a camel" when you are weak.
          And here the Ukrainians continue to light up:
          The Main Investigation Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine has opened criminal proceedings against Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and businessman Konstantin Malofeev, Today.kz reports with reference to the agency's website.
          The ministry believes that Shoigu and Malofeev are accomplices of the terrorists.
          The department claims that from March 2014 to the present, allegedly with the support of officials of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, "illegal armed groups have been formed that operate on the territory of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine." At the same time, these formations "under the command of citizens of the Russian Federation", as they say in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, "commit systemic robbery attacks on government bodies, units of the Armed Forces and the National Guard of Ukraine, enterprises, organizations."
          The investigation believes that Shoigu and Malofeev may be involved in the commission of these acts.
          “At present, the Main Investigation Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine is taking measures provided for by Ukrainian legislation to attract citizens Shoigu S.K. and Malofeev K.The. to participate in investigative actions, ”the ministry said. At the same time, in the case of "non-appearance of the indicated persons", the investigation threatens to take measures to "Forced drive to the place of call."
          The Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine warned that the suspects could be put on the wanted list.
      3. +3
        22 July 2014 21: 50
        Quote: RUSS
        In our World, everyone still needs to prove that you are not a camel.

        And the worst thing is that Russia is quite successfully "put" in the position of the guilty one, and it begins to justify itself. And once you make excuses, it means you are guilty! This is how it is perceived ..
        Our "tops" will not understand in any way that they will not win in the information war with principally honest statements. Ours are awaiting the results of the investigation. And people all over the world do not want to wait - they want to know the truth immediately! And this "PRAVDA" is given to him by the State Department with gayrop sycophants, as a result, as already mentioned here, Russia will still be guilty! And to the legitimate question "why?" you will be cheerfully answered: "BECAUSE!"
        1. +4
          22 July 2014 22: 23
          Quote: avia1991
          Russia will still be to blame! And to the legitimate question "why?" they will cheerfully answer you: "BECAUSE!"


          Greetings, Sergey.

          This is because the leadership is playing giveaway with its Western partners. Plays at our expense.
          The benefit is the opportunity to get a job (including numerous relatives and descendants) in the West. Meet a wealthy old age somewhere in the Austrian Alps in your "modest" villa.

          For internal needs, the authorities have creatives, ideas, and the means for their implementation. Look how hard it is that the majority can no longer imagine Russia without Putin. And as the turnover of an adversary in an information war is required, then diarrhea, scrofula, where does that go. No activity, no creativity.

          Very profitable game - giveaway
          1. +2
            22 July 2014 23: 29
            Quote: Normal
            For internal needs, the authorities have creatives, ideas, and the means for their implementation. Look how hard it is that the majority can no longer imagine Russia without Putin. And as the turnover of an adversary in an information war is required, then diarrhea, scrofula, where does that go. No activity, no creativity.Very profitable game - giveaway

            I partly agree, especially about creatives, but power is then strong when it can be held in its hands! There are a lot of examples in history. The last one, in my opinion, is a project with Ksyusha, who is with Obchak. Putin, if this is his project, did everything SUPER. But please remember that criticizing is always easier than doing it yourself. I do not believe that the downed Boeing, the work of the militia, is really ours. Let Fashington put pressure on US, the truth cannot be concealed. Putin will mirror. As a result, we will have many times more benefits for Russia!
        2. 0
          22 July 2014 22: 51
          Quote: avia1991
          And the worst thing is that Russia is quite successfully "put" in the position of the guilty one, and it begins to justify itself. And once you make excuses, it means you are guilty! This is how it is perceived ..

          Only we ourselves took this position in late April and early May, and then you are absolutely right.
        3. 0
          23 July 2014 10: 08
          "Because the gladiolus" laughing
    4. +3
      22 July 2014 18: 48
      Roughly, clumsily, but on the zombie, deprived of their opinion, the population acts completely. Then even the Truth will be perceived by them not as Truth, in the subconscious the first "truth" will sit down. This is the essence of the information war. And the more monstrous and more lies, the less Truth will be perceived later. And after the centuries-old already Naglo-Saxon lie, the lie on their part is already perceived as an everyday occurrence.
    5. +3
      22 July 2014 19: 17
      Not supported and approved.
      Ukrainians do not have the brains and courage to twist such a thing.
      They were ordered.
      They complied.
      Ordered by the United States.
      And stupid people like Nalyvaichenko, Avakov, Paroshenko began to smack the gag.
      Even the mind was not enough to change the date of the file.
      And carry the BUK somewhere along country roads with pre-established signs bordering Donetsk and Rostov regions.
      Even on such a thing, they should not be allowed.
      It is said about them like this: not a candle for God, not a damn poker.
      1. +5
        22 July 2014 19: 49
        Quote: demo
        It is said about them like this: not a candle for God, not a damn poker.

        not to visit, not to leave home
    6. 0
      22 July 2014 20: 02
      Since there is an indisputable fact of fraud on the part of the Kiev fascists, this already clearly speaks of who the criminal is.
    7. +14
      22 July 2014 21: 41
      Quote: herruvim
      Shot down by Ukraine with the support and approval of the United States, all smart people in the world have already understood this.

      psaki thinks differently
    8. +9
      22 July 2014 22: 04
      herruvim
      Shot down by Ukraine with the support and approval of the United States, all smart people in the world have already understood this.
    9. +11
      22 July 2014 22: 18
      A unique photo taken from an American drone, proving that Putin personally shot down a Malaysian Boeing
    10. +1
      23 July 2014 00: 34
      Quote: herruvim
      Shot down by Ukraine with the support and approval of the United States, all smart people in the world have already understood this. POINT. END OF DISCUSSION.

      For 1 minute I read, comprehended, wrote a comment - handsome. Or haven't you read it? POINT END DISCUSSION.
      1. 0
        24 July 2014 15: 59
        The day before yesterday, after the downed Boeing, another accused appeared - Benya Kolomoisky. It turns out that all the dispatcher is his fiefdom, and in addition to armored personnel carriers and tanks, his fighters also have BUKs.
        It does not matter whether he shot down or not, but his candidacy as a scapegoat will suit both ours (he is not our friend at all) and Kievans (Kolomoisky has too much power, which is unlikely to please their president and parliament)
  2. +15
    22 July 2014 18: 37
    Gentlemen, I am writing to the top line, tk. it is not a fact that they will finish reading the whole discussion - Russia [ALREADY INVOLVED IN A GREAT WAR ... exactly what the mattress makers were trying to achieve. The Supreme Commander today did not recognize Novorossiya ... let him recognize even tomorrow or the day after tomorrow ... but the WAR IS IMMEDIATELY ... will bring in troops - WAR IS IMMEDIATELY ... will not recognize, will not enter - dill will be flooded with blood in the SE and trampled into Crimea ... whatever one may say, everything goes according to the scenario of "overseas partners", ugh, izbaai God ... A GREAT WAR IS INEVITABLE .... my opinion is enough to delay, it's time to ACTIVELY intervene ... the Ministry of Foreign Affairs will find a pretext ... and be it -will be ... otherwise, it will cost an even greater number of innocent victims ... and more - is the chair shaking under the GDP.? Kremlin undercover games ... Already overly cautious ... afraid that the oligarchs might "overthrow" him? Isn't he afraid of that? I have repeatedly stated that I am not sympathetic to him ... But it seems that the region ... if it wants to stay in power, it is time to act ... incl. and inside Russia ... that's the whole story ... because for now I personally support the GDP, but I expect ACTIONS from it ... sorry, I wrote on emotions ... hi
    1. -25
      22 July 2014 18: 58
      We do not have the Supreme - there is Judas N2 (N1 - Humpbacked). And Alksnis is right in his statements - for his grandmothers and grandmothers of his homies, he will also surrender his people, as in Novorossiya. And the whole essence of the 'cunning plan' turned out to be PR on blood!
      1. +5
        22 July 2014 20: 28
        And you just try to imagine for a moment that all this happened not under the GDP, but under Medved and Serdyukov? I'm immediately scared.
    2. 77bob1973
      0
      22 July 2014 21: 47
      No offense, but you don't need to include "bzdo", there is such a technique to let the enemy hit the void, and this is now our strategy ...
  3. +4
    22 July 2014 18: 38
    Hmm, any situation will be reshaped in their own way, rudely, unprofessionally, but many believe ...
    On the face of the complete absence of any mental functions and a sober view of the situation
    1. +10
      22 July 2014 18: 40
      Quote: Dolg1986
      Hmm, any situation will be reshaped in their own way, rudely, unprofessionally, but many believe ...

      Some things are hard to argue, even for idiots
      1. +4
        22 July 2014 19: 52
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Some things are hard to argue, even for idiots

        Hmm, the recording of the crew's conversations is unlikely to clarify anything.
  4. +5
    22 July 2014 18: 39
    No Copperfield from Avakov. The Kiev authorities are outright delirium. Apparently not everything was planned in advance, the version that they shot down by accident has the right to exist, now they are trying to come up with something along the way. I hope that our SVR has not forgotten how to work and will get evidence.
    1. +7
      22 July 2014 19: 33
      In the game that I play in the United States, there is no place for chance.
      Everything is preprogrammed.
      And AWACS did not fly in vain.
      They wanted to determine the degree of our activity.
      And it was not in vain that a NATO squadron pushed into the Black Sea.
      All for a reason.
  5. +16
    22 July 2014 18: 41
    United States Secretary of State John Kerry said that the air defense missile system used to destroy the passenger liner was delivered from Russia.

    “For a long time it was possible to predict that this mad hatred, which every year was kindled more and more in the West against Russia, would break off the chain someday. This moment has come ...
    It was the entire West who came to express their denial of Russia and to block her path to the future. "
    Fedor Tyutchev. 1854 year.

    Actually, isn't it?
    1. +4
      22 July 2014 19: 35
      And why are the statements of our wise ancestors ignored by our leaders?
      Moreover, at the same time, the national education is ruled by the official Livanov.
  6. Andrey82
    +7
    22 July 2014 18: 42
    You just need to throw money not only on the Lympiads with the Universiades and not so much as on the development and maintenance of methods inf. wars in our long-suffering post-industrial era. Think in terms of the 20th century? Do you think that the Internet does not affect anything? Then get it and sign!
    1. 0
      22 July 2014 22: 52
      you have forgotten the 2018 World Cup, almost how the Olympics will be. (in terms of costs)
  7. 0
    22 July 2014 18: 46
    Two black boxes were given to the British for decryption. Who knows how many black boxes there are in Boeing?
    1. 0
      22 July 2014 18: 55
      In all aircraft, this is a speech parametric recorder.
      1. +2
        22 July 2014 18: 57
        Quote: enot73
        In all aircraft, this is a speech parametric recorder.

        Yes, no matter what they are called, the question was different. How many of these recorders are there in Boeing?
        1. +1
          22 July 2014 22: 18
          Quote: Wend
          Quote: enot73
          In all aircraft, this is a speech parametric recorder.

          Yes, no matter what they are called, the question was different. How many of these recorders are there in Boeing?

          --------------------------------------------
          I don’t remember exactly, but I came across a figure that there are about 8 black boxes. But I could be wrong, because I heard for a long time and out of my ears recourse
          1. 0
            22 July 2014 23: 02
            How many of these recorders are there in Boeing?

            Quote: K-50
            I don’t remember exactly, but I came across a figure that there are about 8 black boxes. But I could be wrong, because I heard for a long time and out of my ears

            Yes, 8. Firstly, there is a division according to functions - which of them writes what, and secondly, there is duplication of information, two-, three-fold redundancy. In "three sevens" an absolutely huge amount of information is recorded - for a flight of about a terabyte. A large amount of data is received on all aircraft systems. About the engine, and not just about the engine, but also about the operation of various components installed on it, and about many other aircraft systems. Plus, if the aircraft is equipped with the appropriate equipment, this data is transmitted online to the ground (ACARS system). In the cockpit itself there is a voice recorder that records all the crew's conversations. But in general, all this is kind of softer ... The recorders record only the parameters of the aircraft's operation. This can only shed light on the question of whether the plane had technical problems and whether it fell itself. And since, most likely, this is not the case, and the plane was subjected to a powerful impact, the decryption will not give anything. Even if a collision with a striking element is recorded, this is all over.
            1. 0
              23 July 2014 09: 47
              They gave only two, I read that the militia found eight recorders. What did you give? And will it not turn out that when a false decryption appears (or may not appear), another box will appear. Which decryption will disgrace British specialists? Of course, I'm not saying that they are bought and are dancing to the tune of the United States, but in the light of the current events, everything can be.
  8. +10
    22 July 2014 18: 48
    Oh, sorry there is no Hugo Chavez, he would call a spade a spade.

    It was necessary not to defend, but to declare right away that this was the work of the security forces, and ours again delayed ... We are yielding in the information war ..
    1. The Art of War
      +9
      22 July 2014 19: 06
      Yes, Hugo Chavez is great!
    2. +4
      22 July 2014 19: 55
      Quote: fly fishing
      Oh, sorry there is no Hugo Chavez, he would call a spade a spade.

      and the late Chernomyrdin at one time already defined this. wanted the best, it turned out as always
    3. 77bob1973
      0
      22 July 2014 21: 49
      Against this background, the Ukrainians admitted the opposite, that on their part the information war had been lost ...
    4. 0
      23 July 2014 07: 58
      Quote: fly fishing
      It was necessary not to defend, but to declare right away that this was the work of the security forces, and ours again delayed ... We are yielding in the information war ..

      The trouble is that no one hears our statements and does not want to hear. Everyone looks in the mouth of the State Department. Any lie spewed out by the United States will be received favorably. Any our truth will be declared a lie. Can, too, begin to carry utter nonsense? Like the Boeing was shot down by a Patriot who was secretly brought into Ukraine, and then a couple of photos and videos were secretly taken out from some Iraq? Make Psaki make excuses? request
  9. +7
    22 July 2014 18: 49
    Such "facts" even make me happy, the more they try to prove the non-provable, the more they do stupid things. As they say on the thieves and the hat is on fire. -) Yes, the Americans will forgive me (there are some smart ones among them, I talked), but whoever they take under their "wing" instantly becomes dull ...
  10. pryanik
    +3
    22 July 2014 18: 49
    yes, war is a matter of time and place, but sorry for the children, it's a pity, but if you have to fight like this until victory
  11. +2
    22 July 2014 18: 49
    It turns out that the modernized SU-25 can climb up to 10 km for a short time.
    1. romaskadarv
      +2
      22 July 2014 18: 54
      just modernized yesterday ... on wikipedia
      1. +5
        22 July 2014 19: 58
        Quote: romaskadarv
        just modernized yesterday ... on wikipedia

        3 minutes ago from wikipedia
        Flight characteristics
        Maximum speed: 950 km / h (with normal combat load)
        Cruising speed: 750 km / h
        Landing speed: 210 km / h
        Combat radius: 300 km
        Practical range: (with normal combat load)
        on high:
        without PTB: 640 km
        from 4 × PTB-800: 1250 km
        by the ground:
        without PTB: 495 km
        from 4 × PTB-800: 750 km
        Ferrying range: 1950 km
        Service ceiling: 7000 m [74] [75] [76] (according to other sources, 7000-10 000 m [77] [78])
      2. +1
        22 July 2014 20: 39
        Quote: romaskadarv
        just modernized yesterday ... on wikipedia

        Come on ... Here is infa from the Corner of the Sky Aviaencyclopedia: "... Modifications:

        Su-25 is the first serial modification of the attack aircraft.

        Su-25UB two-seat combat training aircraft
        Su-25UT, Su-28 two-seat training version
        Su-25UBK export version of the Su-25UB
        Su-25UTG two-seat aircraft for practicing landing techniques using ground and deck arresters
        Su-25BM target towing aircraft
        Su-25K export version of the Su-25.
        Su-25T anti-tank attack aircraft with new electronic equipment and weapons
        Su-25TK export version of the Su-25T
        Su-25TM, Su-39 all-weather anti-tank attack aircraft
        LTH:
        Modification of the Su-25
        Wingspan, m 14.36
        Aircraft Length m 15.36
        Aircraft height, m ​​4.80
        Wing area, m2 33.70
        Weight, kg
        empty 9500 aircraft
        normal takeoff 14600
        maximum take-off 17600
        Fuel
        internal fuel, kg 5000
        PTB 2
        Engine type 2 turbojet engines R-195 (at first - R95Sh)
        Thrust, kN 2 x 44.13 (40.20)
        Maximum speed km / h
        off the ground xnumx
        at height M=0.82
        Practical range, km 1850
        Combat range, km
        at height 1250
        off the ground xnumx
        Practical ceiling, m 7000-10000
        Max. height of combat use 5000
        Max. 6.5 operational overload
        Crew 1
        Armament: one 30-mm double-barreled gun GSh-30-2 in the lower bow with 250 rounds.
        Combat load - 4340 kg on 8 (10) suspension units, normal load - 1340 kg
        Bomb load: Up to 8 laser-guided bombs,
        8-10 500-, 250-kg bombs, 32 100-kg bombs,
        armor-piercing bombs, napalm tanks
        NUR: 8-10 PU UB-32-57 (320 (252) x 57-mm)
        or 8-10 240-mm blocks NAR type C-5 (57 mm), C-8 (80 mm), C-24 (240 mm) and C-25 (340 mm).
        PW: Air-to-Air P-3 (AA-2) or P-60 (AA-8)
        air-surface 25ML X-X-C and 29L 25L
        Containers SPPU-22 with double-barreled 23-mm gun GSH-23L with 260 cartridges.
        Pay attention to the line "Practical ceiling". And pay attention to the product R-60, in the line "Armament." armament Russian modernized attack aircraft Su-25. The exact number of aircraft adopted for service has not been specified. We are talking about combat training aircraft Su-25UBM25 and combat Su-1M25, according to a press release from the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine ... "- News from March 1 15 Source http://podrobnosti.ua/technologies/2010/2010/03/15.html
        Its characteristics, in height: 5.000-10.000 m. And yet. The modernization of the Su-25M1 attack aircraft consisted in replacing the analog sight with a digital one. As a result, aiming accuracy increased by 30%. The installation of a satellite navigation system allows the upgraded Rook to hit targets even when the pilot does not see them visually, but he knows their coordinates.
        1. 0
          23 July 2014 00: 08
          maybe for this, the kubol was working, directing the SU to the Boeing
    2. +3
      22 July 2014 22: 24
      Quote: bmv04636
      It turns out that the modernized SU-25 can climb up to 10 km for a short time.

      -------------------------------------
      For a short time. Static ceiling 7 meters. These are the altitude of a stable flight and a dynamic ceiling of 000 meters. This is at maximum acceleration on the "hill".
      For example: MIG-31 - static ceiling - 20 600 meters, and dynamic, maximum measured - 37 500 meters
      1. 0
        24 July 2014 15: 51
        On TV, they showed interviews with pilots who had flown by attack aircraft for decades. The answer was unambiguous: the flight altitude of the Su-25 is limited to 7,5 km for only one reason - the cockpit is not airtight. Cases were cited when pilots in oxygen masks for various reasons ascended to an altitude of 12-14 km. Moreover, not a slide, but a regular rise (in one of the cases, they bypassed the thunderstorm front). It was noticed that the aircraft is normally controlled at these altitudes.
  12. +2
    22 July 2014 18: 52
    Quote: RUSS
    Quote: herruvim
    Shot down by Ukraine with the support and approval of the United States, all smart people in the world have already understood this. POINT. END OF DISCUSSION.


    In our World, everyone still needs to prove that you are not a camel.


    I disagree, as a rule, he screams and proves innocence, the one who is to blame .. Time will put everything in its place ... but it may be too late ...
  13. Collective Mind
    +5
    22 July 2014 18: 54
    It makes no difference who actually shot down the plane. If only in order to amuse my vanity "I was right!" Only one thing matters: who will appoint guilty. And there is every reason to believe that Russia will be to blame. Ukrainians kill Ukrainians and seize Ukrainian territory, the plane was shot down over Ukraine, but Russia will be to blame. XXI Century. Goebbels brought up a worthy replacement.
  14. +5
    22 July 2014 18: 54
    There is such a tactic "turn on the fool", you say that it is convenient for you, and deny the arguments of others, but such an audience listens with an open mouth and believes all the delirium.
  15. +1
    22 July 2014 18: 57
    And in order not to bark all sorts of it would be worth it and filed a lawsuit for libel.
  16. +5
    22 July 2014 18: 57
    Everything, gentlemen, sailed. The unfortunate Boeing's flight recorders are on their way to Britain for decoding. It's a shame to admit, but here we lost. Now we just need to press the West on the topic with the facts that the Ministry of Defense has recently presented.
    1. BEGGAR
      +2
      22 July 2014 20: 46
      ... The flight recorders of the unfortunate Boeing go to Britain on
      in case of rocket fire, they will not be of any use. The boxes do not record the missile strike, but only negotiations between the pilots and the aircraft systems. The moment of the dispatcher's command to decrease and change the course may be interesting.
    2. 0
      22 July 2014 21: 39
      You give up the victory early. Wait and see.
  17. +1
    22 July 2014 18: 58
    Part of the fuselage with round holes from shrapnel.
    1. +2
      22 July 2014 22: 27
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Part of the fuselage with round holes from shrapnel.

      -----------------------------
      And what does that prove?
      and so clearly the plane was shot down by a rocket, it remains only to figure out which one and whose.
      1. +2
        22 July 2014 23: 19
        And on the wing, also traces of shrapnel? (To look for a photo is too lazy, but there was clearly no shrapnel. Maybe he got both kinds of it?)
      2. 0
        23 July 2014 01: 10
        Quote: K-50
        and so clearly the plane was shot down by a rocket, it remains only to figure out which one and whose.

        Who is clear?
        Why such categoricality?
        For example, it is clear to me that they were shot down by the Air Force, which I expressed on the 18th, and I began to suspect as soon as I saw the first footage from the crash site.
        More precisely, the probability that the Air Force was shot down is 90%, the air defense system is 10%.
    2. 0
      22 July 2014 23: 15
      The location of this fragment is very interesting.
      Don't know where you fell?
      It seems that the cabin is in an open field, and here there are obvious shrub trees.
      1. 0
        22 July 2014 23: 26
        Fell in the village, and the locals brought and put near the road,
        where he was photographed.
        1. 0
          23 July 2014 00: 20
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Fell in the village, and the locals brought and put near the road,
          where he was photographed.

          Thank you.
          Can you tell me the name of the village?
        2. 0
          23 July 2014 01: 05
          Quote: sabakina
          And on the wing, also traces of shrapnel? (To look for a photo is too lazy, but there was clearly no shrapnel. Maybe he got both kinds of it?)

          Honestly, I don't like this photo ... it's kind of unclear. Not in terms of quality, but in terms of origin ...
          Well, okay, in principle I am ready to accept it as true.

          But based on this photo, a new bunch of questions arise ...
          The holes are painfully concentrated. This is unlikely.
          If there was already a surface-to-air missile, then traces of shrapnel should be practically all over the fuselage, and the wings should fall, there is a cloud of striking elements - Mom, don't cry!
          And here is just the cockpit area and nothing more. It doesn't work that way.
          And nowhere can I find a photo in normal resolution.
          From the same thing that can be unraveled, the conclusion suggests itself that the shrapnel flew out from the inside, tk. the burrs stick out.
          Although, it is quite possible that they rushed from the inside, but they did not calculate and sent the drying out to finish off.
          1. 0
            23 July 2014 06: 20
            Quote: Wheel
            ... it's kind of unclear.

            Quote: Wheel
            shrapnel flew out from the inside, because the burrs stick out.
            Although, it is quite possible that they rushed from the inside

            I stitched the body through and through, also an option.
          2. 0
            23 July 2014 08: 05
            Quote: Wheel
            Honestly, I don't like this photo.

            Me too. It looks like just a piece of metal, it is not clear from what, on which they have been practicing for a long time with a double-barreled gun.
          3. +1
            23 July 2014 11: 29
            So your hypothesis is as follows: "They shot from the inside: a bomb in the cockpit (on the photo - a piece of the fuselage from the cockpit), but not enough (looked through binoculars - it flies, the infection is without a cockpit). And then they sent a" rook "(a wise choice! ) make a hill and plant explosive rockets at the maximum height. "

            Are you overdoing your fantasies too much? belay
    3. +2
      23 July 2014 04: 30
      Upon closer examination of the enlarged photograph, you will notice that in the right part of the fragment, the edges of most of the holes are bent inward, and in the left part - outward.
      How this can be only with one damaging factor is difficult to explain.
      And in the middle there is a series of 3 (4) oblong holes, reminiscent of a burst from a rapid-fire cannon fired at a very sharp angle from bottom to top.
      Somehow it does not fit well with the version of a single missile from the "Buk".
      1. +1
        23 July 2014 06: 25
        Quote: Private
        in the right part of the fragment, at most of the holes, the edges are bent inward, and in the left part, outward.

        Two rockets, parallel to Bukovsky or from Sushka, but TWO!
        As far as I remember, it seems, according to instructions, the launch of two missiles, guaranteed defeat.
        1. +2
          23 July 2014 11: 19
          Above, there was already a reconstruction of the fragment of the skin on the fuselage shown in the photo. Here's another one:



          Generally speaking, the presence of holes with the edges turned outward at this point may indicate not only the second missile, but also an explosive device in the cockpit.
  18. +1
    22 July 2014 18: 59
    so for modern kraina, it is meanness, lies, deception of the clevette and hypocrisy, the official method of seeing things and their whole worldview is reduced to the most base deeds and deeds, but in their crimes such power will naturally always blame someone, but not themselves. then if we are destined to wake up with this territory to fight, and this is not a state or a country for a long time, but simply a territory — so it’s better not to take prisoners from there.
    1. 0
      22 July 2014 21: 37
      The devil is a liar in Greek. Diabolism is at the heart of America's policy, and now that of the rulers of Ukraine. They will not build anything on the basis of devilry. Lies, lies and lies lie at the heart of the current state of Ukraine. Odessa, and now the unfortunate passengers shot down by the Ukrainian military, is the result of a diabolical attitude towards human values.
  19. +3
    22 July 2014 19: 02
    It’s not about who shot down the plane (and whether it was the one or was missing recently), but HOW to form public opinion, and later it doesn’t matter who wakes up WHO is to blame. The opinion was formed, the sanctions were pushed through .. EVERYTHING! Like a test tube with anthrax in the hands of the American secretary of state. No evidence was found, but Iraq was bombed. Clumsy? Yes! But it rolled many times! ..
  20. Arh
    +3
    22 July 2014 19: 03
    We need the ears of Obama and the Kiev junta, we wake them up to rub them like a man !!!)))
  21. +2
    22 July 2014 19: 03
    A week after the beginning of the First World War, on July 28, what more terrible provocation are the Americans organizing to drag Russia into the war?
  22. +2
    22 July 2014 19: 04
    This is not only "Vile, low, unworthy" but also disgusting to sacrifice people to then dance on the bones for their own benefit!
  23. +1
    22 July 2014 19: 04
    And we will give in until we realize that the war against the Russians and the Russian world has begun! We Orthodox Russians need to stop being mattresses and unite in the fight against the impending threat from the "guardians of perverted values"! If WE do not stop them there, they will come to our house with a war! They have no choice, they are directed by the most important misanthropists, who have long ago determined both the number and race of slaves that would suit them! Therefore, first we are like a thorn in the eye of the rest, and then the rest will be destroyed! The script comes true! Delay is like death!
  24. RUSLAT
    +5
    22 July 2014 19: 08
    In the foreign media, they write abruptly nonsense. At the same time, they never refute or apologize, they say freedom of speech, but if you write something against the authorities, the article will be sewn up in no time. For example, recently, I read in a "respectable Internet site" that yesterday Putin flew to Kiev and apologized for the downed Boeing .......
    1. 0
      22 July 2014 19: 17
      Putin flew to Kiev and apologized for the downed Boeing .......

      Patstalom laughing It’s bad that some tolerants believe it.
      1. 0
        22 July 2014 21: 31
        Why is it bad? After all, they believe not because they are clinically senile, but because they hate us and are ready to believe in any nonsense. The more nonsense they believe in, the deeper and more surely they plunge into a real insanity. The more mentally disabled our enemies are, the more mistakes they will make, which is good.
    2. +4
      22 July 2014 20: 02
      Quote: RUSLAT
      ... For example, recently, I read in a "respectable Internet site" that yesterday Putin flew to Kiev and apologized for the downed Boeing .......

      well, this is already the height of arrogance ... it seems nowhere further
  25. +4
    22 July 2014 19: 13
    Finally, to understand the same Gazprom (and not throwing millions of parties in Malta) that the support of information confrontation by the hands of Western journalists in the central Western media is much more profitable than those billions of billions of monthly losses in the theft of gas and, for example, the anti-terrorist operation by Kiev (more than 3 million $ in day). A custom article in the central press of the West is about 40 euros maximum (this is taking into account the current Russophobia) Every day, the announcement of the real circumstances of the Boeing, the loss of dill and civilians, the destruction of infrastructure, which, taking into account the association, will need to be invested by the EU, I think they will remove the questions about " South Stream "and a peaceful settlement. And the sanctions would have been frozen long ago, even if troops were deployed. Ksati, after Odessa and Mariupol, exclamations were often heard in the comments from the German public about the justification for the introduction of Russian troops from the non-repetition of "Odessa". Not only is there no active promotion of Russian opinion in foreign press, but also the lack of information from RT in German only aggravates this problem. Namely, the German lobby dominates the European Parliament and the EU leadership with the pushing of sanctions
  26. The Art of War
    +2
    22 July 2014 19: 21
    Now the Anglo Saxons will come up with some crap again, they are not the first, that Kennedy was killed by a magic bullet, what about the twin towers!
  27. +2
    22 July 2014 19: 23
    Despite the loss of the information war (and we are losing it all with fewer losses), the truth will still come out. She's so true smile
  28. +1
    22 July 2014 19: 30
    Quote: Andrey Rezchikov
    “Mean, low, unworthy”
    _ It was more than strange to expect something else!
  29. +1
    22 July 2014 19: 42
    I don't understand why we are surprised ... the information war is being waged according to the precepts of Hitler / Goebbels ... the bolder the lie ... the easier it is to believe in it ...
  30. +1
    22 July 2014 19: 43
    As my acquaintance scout used to say: "Lies, pi .. you are a provocation." Soon the ears will be like an elephant from the noodles.
  31. Password
    +6
    22 July 2014 19: 52
    My five kopecks - I will note that, unlike the current talkative business leaders, the same tyrant Stalin spoke little, but did a lot, without having any accounts abroad, or foreign real estate, or various business "partners" there. And nothing, they lived, everyone in the world reckoned with our state and did not think of such provocations. For myself it could have come out worse. And now you look, war is war, and business partners and money for some people seem to be more expensive. Sorry, it’s boiling.
  32. 0
    22 July 2014 20: 03
    So, everyone in the world knows perfectly well that Russia is not guilty of destroying Boeing, but they are dancing to the tune of an artificial formation (similar to Ukraine), which is going to the bottom, called the United States. How will these hypocrites then, after the collapse of the United States, communicate with Russia? There will be no one to resist it, for at the present time everyone is for himself. To unite is much more difficult than to disunite, because the union imposes some common obligations and means (for example, the EU), and oh, what a pity!
    NATO will only have nuclear blackmail in reserve, but here, too, time is working against them. The fact is that nuclear charges and carriers have a limited shelf life. The United States now does not even have its own engines to fly into space. All the money goes to world terror, but the money is inflated, not backed by anything.
    That is why they are pumping them into Ukraine, trying to weaken Russia, but we have developed a strong immunity! It remains to introduce the vaccine to Ukraine!
  33. +8
    22 July 2014 20: 11
    about so soon it will be)
  34. RUSLAT
    +4
    22 July 2014 20: 24
    Last year, one Baltic prime minister said that Russia and the Russians give his country up to 25 percent of the budget ..... What kind of sanctions can we talk about ....... Russia itself feeds the EU and NATO ......
  35. +1
    22 July 2014 20: 31
    Listen friends. All this is understandable and wonderful. But no one really cares about it. How to spit now on snipers on the Maidan, on people burned to death in Odessa and on peaceful demonstrators shot in Mariupol. This whole Boeing story will simply hesitate and shut up. And then it will be like this:
    1) The American media a week after the drain of Novorossiya will start broadcasting approximately what you now see on Vesti 24.
    2) people will start to wonder "how so". only everyone will already be on figs, like figs on an anti-Iraqi test tube
    3) after the people in the world find out the truth, the questions will not be for the United States. Winners are not judged. Bubt questions to Russia. How is it that the Russians did not protect the Russians from such lawlessness. Answer: because the Russians are Chmyrs. And history is made by the Americans. Although there are "sometimes wrong"
    1. +4
      22 July 2014 22: 32
      Cool it down. There will be no drain of Novorossia. That you are all rushing into panic, there is a struggle in all directions. And for the Russians, you can give it in the eye am
    2. +1
      23 July 2014 06: 08
      Quote: Magadan
      Russians are chmyrs. And history is made by the Americans. Although there are "sometimes wrong"

      So to speak , trying to do , now the Yusovites have retreated to the previously prepared positions of the _ RF, nothing to do with, the militias shot down by mistake.
      And your nickname is correct, one thing is not clear, reflects your former place of work or future.
      hi
  36. +6
    22 July 2014 20: 38
    Yes, comrades .... let me send my mother-in-law to the store for salt and matches. In the meantime, I'll clean my grandfather's Mauser and stroke the Budenovka ...
  37. +1
    22 July 2014 21: 13
    “Mean, low, unworthy”
    The motto of the Ukrop junta.
  38. +2
    22 July 2014 21: 18
    Quote: RUSS
    In our World, everyone still needs to prove that you are not a camel
    It is useless to prove! Here's an example: 1983, you probably heard about the downed Boeing over Sakhalin. Who has not heard http://www.usinfo.ru/1983boing.htm Then Washington screamed that the poor airplane was lost. The whole world was indignant, protests at the embassies. In fact, all this bullshit could be crossed out by a simple journalistic investigation. The poor airplane was supposed to check in at 9 checkpoints. If the control point is missed on the remote control, the corresponding indication in the cockpit will light up with zeros, not to mention ground services. So we draw the appropriate conclusions and increase the supply to the militia.
  39. +1
    22 July 2014 21: 27
    What is the reason guys? The culprit has already been appointed. Russia will definitely be to blame. Here's how. If Russia helps the militias, she is wrong, and if she does not help the militias, she is to blame. Only America is right here. America is right when it attacked Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan under a far-fetched pretext. When she shot down a civilian plane in the Persian Gulf. This is the right of the strong. Unfortunately, the USSR no longer exists, and Russia only gets up from its knees. But I think that time is passing, the United States does not mock the whole world for a long time.
  40. 0
    22 July 2014 22: 13
    Avakyan -! Armenians, brothers and allies! I hope that we are still allies ... You have proven this more than once. Nail the vile filth to the pillar of shame! Lying after all, dog ... Shame on the Ukrainian, Armenian and Russian peoples ... After all, he "obgovnili" the whole idea, you bastard!
  41. +5
    22 July 2014 22: 25
    -Russia is so masochistic that it shoots down a passenger plane in order to collect from all over the world.

    -Terrorists in the southeast are so many terrorists that they are the first terrorists who committed a terrorist attack, for the sake of a terrorist attack, and did not take responsibility and did not put forward demands

    -Since the terrorists in the southeast are all polls Russian, therefore they are the same masochists as the whole of Russia, therefore they shoot down the plane to see point 1

    -Ukrosmi report that they have everything under control and the army is very strong, but did not notice how the missing links of the "beech" system came from Russia to defeat the target

    -The militias are so reckless that, being in Lugansk, they hit Lugansk from mortars and the Castle, destroying themselves

    -If the National Guard captures the cities in which the terrorists were sitting, then miraculously, the shelling from mortars and the Castle of these cities stops. It never even occurs to the terrorists that they can continue shelling these cities, killing not only the civilian population, but also the National Guard, but what?

    -The separation of Chechnya from Russia is an expression of the will of the people, turning a blind eye to the fact that Doku Umarov is recognized by the United States as a world-class terrorist and Russia should not interfere in the separation process, while those who supported the separation of Novorossia from Ukraine are recognized as terrorists, since Ukraine's territorial integrity is needed, but Russia does not.

    -When Ukrainians fought in Chechnya and Georgia, of whom there were thousands, and even tanks were supplied to Georgia, it’s just simple simple and simple, and when Russian volunteers came to help, it’s Russia the aggressor.

    -When Ukraine and the United States shoot down passenger planes, it’s just simple and simple, and since the media have already passed the verdict without any trial that the Boeing was shot down by Russia, it’s a Russian terrorist and all Russian terrorists.
    1. +1
      23 July 2014 08: 16
      Quote: Lukich
      then it is Russia-terrorist and all Russian terrorists.

      I'll go and arrange a terrorist attack. And Cho, you have to correspond to the "high rank". Guys who are with me? wassat Who is the last dill !!! bully
  42. 0
    23 July 2014 00: 20
    the hike is slowly closing the sky over Israel for civilian planes
  43. 0
    23 July 2014 05: 17
    What is so expected of black boxes? If the survey was from the air defense system, the records will not clarify anything. It's another matter if fighters or the same attack aircraft were shot down, and then if the Boeing pilots visually detected the attack. It seems to me that even if the recording of the crew's negotiations contains information about the attack of Ukrainian aircraft, do you think this will be made public? Hiding true information for the benefit of democracy is a constant practice in the West.
  44. 0
    23 July 2014 05: 49
    On the news it was reported that the Malaysians handed over the "black boxes" of Boeing flight MH-17 for decryption to the British, now wait for another lie, and provocations, these are much, will wash black to white ...
  45. +1
    23 July 2014 07: 01
    Vesti.ru: US intelligence believes that a Malaysian Airlines passenger plane was shot down over Ukraine by militias, most likely by mistake. This was announced on Tuesday at a special briefing for journalists by representatives of the American special services. Intelligence officials admitted that they had no information about the presence of Russians at the launch site or that the operators of anti-aircraft missile systems were trained in Russia. So, you see, they admit that the Boeing was shot down by the Ukrainians.
  46. 0
    23 July 2014 07: 40
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Quote: herruvim
    . POINT. END OF DISCUSSION.

    The story of black boxes is just beginning. Considering Ukrainians (mentally retarded), there will still be a lot of stench

    The black boxes were sent to the UK for decryption, the answer is clearly Russian Ivan of the purest culprit. Democrats are shitty !!!!!!!!!
  47. 0
    23 July 2014 11: 10
    Quote: SAHALIN
    definitely Russian Ivan is the culprit.


    Such internal news))), and Rafik (I) is an innocent of pure water.

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