Poroshenko ordered not to open fire in the crash zone of the Boeing. In less than five days ...

103
President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko several days after the collapse of the passenger liner ordered the punitive detachments to stop the military operation within 40 radius of km from the crash site. Such a statement by the president according to the established Ukrainian tradition was spread through social networks by the press secretary of the ukropresident, Mr. Tsegolko. This time we decided to use Twitter microblogging service (translated from Ukrainian):

Poroshenko: in the radius of 40 km (around the crash site), the Ukrainian military will not open fire.


Subsequently, Poroshenko himself, through the Ukrainian news agencies, announced that he had indeed given such an order. What prevented Mr. Poroshenko to order a cease-fire in the area of ​​the crash of the aircraft immediately after the tragedy? - he did not specify. In Kiev, they didn’t specify exactly which place the law enforcement officers needed to count 40 km in order to refrain from continuing the punitive operation. According to representatives of the DPR, the wreckage of the aircraft scattered over an area longer than 12 km, the search for the remains of the dead continues to this day.

Poroshenko ordered not to open fire in the crash zone of the Boeing. In less than five days ...


Poroshenko visited the embassy of the Netherlands, where he announced that "Ukraine is doing everything to investigate the attack on the airliner." And in fact, however quickly Ukraine does everything for an investigation ... Even the "guilty" ones know it without expert examination.
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    1. +33
      21 July 2014 15: 51
      Now he’ll open fire from the city to hide evidence, and will accuse the militias that they are hiding evidence. Here you are !!!
      1. +16
        21 July 2014 15: 54
        It would not be Poroshenko who would have written at once, but the US State Department ordered not to open fire in the Boeing crash zone.
        1. +16
          21 July 2014 15: 58
          If you fail to blame the militias,
          then Poroshenko will say that the “Malaysian Boeing,” himself knocked out.
          1. +8
            21 July 2014 16: 03
            Quote: ya.seliwerstov2013
            Poroshenko will say that the "Malaysian Boeing," himself knocked out.

            air conditioners aren’t provided for there? But you never know ... Psaki will explain everything to everyone.
            1. +12
              21 July 2014 16: 17
              I would fight with laughter in a tantrum
              But in the soul poppies bloom.
              In hopelessly distant America
              Ignites the psaki comedy.
          2. +15
            21 July 2014 16: 04
            God forbid the plane would have fallen into the territory controlled by ukram, they would not have found anything but black boxes with the "necessary" contents!;)
            Those who are interested in an objective investigation should, by the grave of their lives, be obliged to the militias who did not let the dishes from Kiev to the scene of the accident!
          3. Natalia
            +9
            21 July 2014 16: 22
            By the way, another interesting version, well, I think that everyone here is watching how events unfold, and everyone is aware that the Boeing was most likely shot down by a fighter (MiG-29 or Su-27): there are characteristic traces of a 30mm aircraft gun, GSh- 30, the practical ceiling of the MiG is just 18 m, and the Su-000 is 25 m, while the maximum height of combat use is 7000 m.
            Those. and here it is impossible to blame the militias, even the EU can assume that it was the "Grach" captured by the militias.

            Damage on the hull is not typical for the "Buk", the Buk leaves shrapnel, numerous small holes in the hull. The striking element of the Buka missile is a fragmentation element, the missile explodes next to the target and BAM! 100% sieve, but not here, here the holes are like from a 30 gauge. In addition, eyewitnesses, very different, but agree that the plane took off because of the clouds, and after the Boeing flared up, the fighter disappeared into the clouds.

            And they let us in on a false, but more convenient for the USA track. What kind of Buki, Russia .... brought you know to the territory of Ukraine, grinned in the ducks and Buk went back to Russia.

            But I want to say this is not the first time the United States has been throwing dust. September 11: Alkaida allegedly produced the act, and the Pentagon blinked cleanly, first ONE plane, and then SECOND. And that is characteristic, the almost 4-channel American program dedicated to the September 11 attacks came out on September 12 at 21:50 Moscow time ..... amazing efficiency, isn't it winked
            1. +4
              21 July 2014 16: 30
              Exactly.
              In an interview with the Komsomol member of the Air Defense regiment Neskorodov just talked about this.
              The bodies of Boeing passengers would be stuffed (sorry for the term, it is most accurate)
              The striking elements of a beech rocket.
              That is why Kuev to the last did not let specialists to the scene of the disaster.
              And the activity of beeches squared, perhaps backlighting and safety net
            2. +3
              21 July 2014 16: 38
              Actually, there are a lot of questions to the Russian Ministry of Defense and other services that are charged with monitoring these processes, I believe that air defense systems should be deployed in a strengthened version in this direction, and therefore reconnaissance and detection tools in sufficient numbers, based on this, I hope to assume that the picture of what happened is thoroughly documented and all interested persons are on course. But so far, according to the statements of our elite, everything is very muddy, or there really is a tough bidding on all positions and nuances .. Although there may already be familiar incompetence and lack of care (did not put radars, did not observe flights, did not document all this) and there is no real data .. That is, we again inflate our cheeks and make menacing eyes ..
              1. +1
                21 July 2014 16: 41
                Quote: max702
                Actually, there are a lot of questions to the Russian Ministry of Defense and other services that are charged with the responsibility of monitoring these processes,

                Right now there is a press conference of the Ministry of Defense, with maps, diagrams and more ....
              2. 0
                21 July 2014 17: 28
                Quote: max702
                But for now, according to the statements of our elite, everything is very muddy

                With a slight difference in time, an airplane flew there with Putin from Brazil.
                It will not be easy to prove that they were aiming at him (although the telephone "interception" a day earlier fits into this version) - maybe they are waiting for the Ukrainians to blab out by mistake?
            3. raccoon
              0
              21 July 2014 16: 57
              The militias are accused of shooting down the An-26 at an altitude of 6500 meters from the BUK! , the militia is armed with a "Tunguska", it just works up to 8000 meters, but it just would not have reached the Boeing. All lies blablablablabla
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. +2
                21 July 2014 17: 34
                the militia has a "Tunguska" in service, it just works up to 8000 meters, but it just would not have reached the Boeing. All lies blablablablabla

                What are you talking about !!! This is the range of the "Tunkuska" missile up to 8 km, and the altitude up to 3,5 km and the course up to 4 km ... you are carrying nonsense ...
            4. strelok93rus
              0
              21 July 2014 16: 59
              Quote: Natalia
              By the way, another interesting version, well, I think that everyone here is watching how events unfold, and everyone is aware that the Boeing was most likely shot down by a fighter (MiG-29 or Su-27): there are characteristic traces of a 30mm aircraft gun, GSh- 30, the practical ceiling of the MiG is just 18 m, and the Su-000 is 25 m, while the maximum height of combat use is 7000 m.
              Those. and here it is impossible to blame the militias, even the EU can assume that it was the "Grach" captured by the militias.

              Damage on the hull is not typical for the "Buk", the Buk leaves shrapnel, numerous small holes in the hull. The striking element of the Buka missile is a fragmentation element, the missile explodes next to the target and BAM! 100% sieve, but not here, here the holes are like from a 30 gauge. In addition, eyewitnesses, very different, but agree that the plane took off because of the clouds, and after the Boeing flared up, the fighter disappeared into the clouds.

              And they let us in on a false, but more convenient for the USA track. What kind of Buki, Russia .... brought you know to the territory of Ukraine, grinned in the ducks and Buk went back to Russia.

              But I want to say this is not the first time the United States has been throwing dust. September 11: Alkaida allegedly produced the act, and the Pentagon blinked cleanly, first ONE plane, and then SECOND. And that is characteristic, the almost 4-channel American program dedicated to the September 11 attacks came out on September 12 at 21:50 Moscow time ..... amazing efficiency, isn't it winked

              IF I AM NOT MISTAKED FROM THURSDAY, BEETS EXPORTED FROM THE PLACE OF UKRAINIAN DISLACATION. "MAVR HAS DONE HIS BUSINESS - MAVRU SHOULD LEAVE!" A MORE EXACT FAST QUICKLY DUMP.
              Most likely, the CIA did not think that their trustees were again possessed.
            5. 0
              21 July 2014 17: 16
              Which is characteristic - two more + two. And what is still characteristic - the third skyscraper collapsed on its own. sad
          4. raccoon
            +1
            21 July 2014 16: 51
            Quote: ya.seliwerstov2013
            If you fail to blame the militias,
            then Poroshenko will say that the “Malaysian Boeing,” himself knocked out.

            AGA again air conditioner is to blame for everything !!!
        2. +2
          21 July 2014 16: 00
          Washington said atas. All the evidence was taken out, now let’s look, public opinion has developed without evidence, and if that American and Canadian experts look.
          1. strelok93rus
            +1
            21 July 2014 16: 55
            Quote: Moment
            Washington said atas. All the evidence was taken out, now let’s look, public opinion has developed without evidence, and if that American and Canadian experts look.


            MORE LOST THE VERSION ABOUT THE FIRST BOEING, THERE WERE NOT FOUND.
            Although INFA SHOCKED OUT WHAT THE PLANE OF THE SAME PLAN IN AVGANISTAN IS DETECTED.
            IF PREPARING A CIA OPERATION, THE PICTURE IS FOLDING UP ALSO. SECOND BOEING, THIS IS THE FIRST.
            SUCH AN OPERATION ALREADY PREPARED IF I DON'T MISTAKE IN THE DAYS laid out yesterday in the CUBA. AS VERSION ...
        3. +3
          21 July 2014 16: 01
          Poroshenko does not have to wait for an independent policy. He will take care of fulfilling the wishes of steeper oligarchs, and to the extent that this does not contradict the instructions of the Americans.
          The United States of America has made its next assistant in the looting of the European Union by creating from Ukraine an obstacle to EU interaction with the Russian Federation.
        4. The comment was deleted.
        5. WKS
          +1
          21 July 2014 16: 20
          Quote: herruvim
          It would not be Poroshenko who would have written at once, but the US State Department ordered not to open fire in the Boeing crash zone.

          They wrote everything right. The State Department does not order, he recommends ... And already puppets having made a powerful person give orders in the form of an order.
      2. +3
        21 July 2014 15: 55
        Quote: Scandinavian
        Now he’ll open fire from the city to hide evidence, and will accuse the militias that they are hiding evidence. Here you are !!!


        And he will blame again on Russia .... (an abusive word addressed to Prezik from Ukraine) ...
      3. +6
        21 July 2014 15: 55
        Boxes are already in Donetsk. The bodies are also collected. There remained a corps, however, it shows that the Boeing was not shot down from a beech tree. Too few holes.
        1. +1
          21 July 2014 16: 02
          Quote: a52333
          There was a corps

          In such an environment, only pieces will be found that will not contradict their fabricated version. The rest, they say, was stolen by the locals for metal.
        2. +4
          21 July 2014 16: 02
          Yes, the version with the Ukrainian fighter looks more convincing. Well, eyewitnesses saw the second plane.
          1. +1
            21 July 2014 16: 41
            If this is so, then I won’t envy the patroller who did it. But I knew the ambassador about the consequences. Or money, or framed, as stubborn, that Putin type flies.
            1. 0
              21 July 2014 17: 29
              The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation stated that they recorded how the Ukrainian Su-25 attack aircraft flew in the direction of the Boeing 777, which later crashed in the Donetsk region
              The distance of the Su-25 from a passenger airliner was up to five kilometers. The representative of the Ministry of Defense claims that the attack aircraft along with Boeing flew along the civilian highway.

              COULD TURN UP TO 10000m AND ATTACK !!!
              Read more on NTV.Ru: http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1150358/#ixzz386oys8n4
        3. +6
          21 July 2014 16: 03
          ... In missiles designed to destroy air targets, a special warhead that is characteristic only of them is used. It is a kind of bundle of pointed rods, sometimes welded together, sometimes not. An expelling charge is installed behind the installed bundle of rods - this is the "fragmentation-rod warhead". At the moment of maximum approach to the target, an expelling charge is detonated in the warhead, and this bundle of rods rushes to the target at almost cosmic speed. When hit, such a rod, using kinetics alone, is capable of piercing the plane through and through in almost any plane, while destroying the internal structure of the aircraft, smashing the onboard equipment to smithereens. The kinetics of the rod is such that it can cut even a titanium spar in two. Such a warhead has one more advantage - the rocket does not require absolute accuracy - it is undermined before contact with the target, and the rods fly out in the direction of the aircraft in a cone. Even if 2-3% of these rods directly hit the target, the aircraft is doomed: it is worth making a hole in the wing or fuselage flying at transonic speed, just piercing the skin, so the monstrous incoming air flow will destroy the damaged wing to the spar itself in less than a minute. If a dozen of such holes are formed, there will be nothing to catch there.

          But this is not the main thing. Fragmented-warhead warheads are mainly used on air-to-air missiles due to their compactness. In air defense, it is preferable to use OF warheads (high-explosive fragmentation), since in some cases it is more effective than fragmentation-rod. In the photo we see the damage to the skin, which is characteristic of a fragmentation-warhead warhead; high-explosive fragmentation shells look different. And this means that this plane did not shoot down any Buk. We are dealing either with the hit of the P-27 Ax, or P-73, which the stores have, and with which the MiG-29 and Su-27 can be equipped.
          1. +2
            21 July 2014 16: 11
            A few thoughts out loud about the downed Boeing:
            Well then, let's seriously:
            The Malaysian Air Line Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 started at 10: 14 from the Dutch Schiphol Airport with a flight to Kuala Lumpur. Communication with the plane disappeared in 14: 15. when it was over the territory of Ukraine, at 50 kilometers from the Russian border, at an altitude of about 10,7 kilometers. Until the loss of communication - telemetry transmitted to the ground showed that the aircraft was operational, the flight was going on normally. The pilot of the aircraft - before the connection was cut off, managed to convey that he was “led” by two fighters of the Ukrainian Air Force. After that - the connection was lost. Aircraft - crashed in the area of ​​n / a Grabovo, in the Donetsk region, all 283 passengers and 15 crew members were killed.
            Let’s try to establish the few facts that are now.
            1. The plane disappeared due to communications over the territory of Ukraine and crashed on the territory of Ukraine.
            2. In the place where it fell, Ukrainian air defense units (SAM "Buk-M1, OSA-AKM) were deployed.


            The militia has a Su-25 attack aircraft, previously captured from the Ukrainian Air Force, and is serviceable and flown around. In addition, four days ago, this attack aircraft most likely struck at Ukrainian positions.
            And what's more, just on that day, Ukrainians said that the Russian Air Force plane shot down their Su-25 attack aircraft.
            That is - in that place in the sky theoretically (as Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners could consider) there could be airplanes of both the Russian Air Force and the LNR Air Force. Moreover, it is entirely possible that the Su-25 LNR Air Force retained a friend-or-foe defendant, and the Ukrainians did not reprogram all of them. A low level of training (10 years ago, Ukrainians shot down an airplane over the Black Sea) and the general atmosphere of psychosis could lead to the fact that they shot at everything that flies.

            3. Militias - were interested in shooting down Ukrainian planes - but the technical means they had (MANPADS, ZU-23, Strela-10) allowed to shoot down only low-flying aircraft (Su-25 attack aircraft and An-26 low-flying), which they have been doing all the last time. So, an hour before the fall of the Boeing, another An-26 of the Ukrainian Air Force was shot down.
            1. +3
              21 July 2014 16: 14
              4. For unknown reasons, the Ukrainian dispatchers launched the Malaysian plane exactly over the combat zone. In previous days - he took a different route.

              5. Militias - had at least one SAM Buk.

              But at the same time - the Prosecutor General of Ukraine In Yarema said that they got the equipment inoperable. In addition - if the MANPADS can use a minimally trained soldier, then to control such equipment as the Buk air defense system you need professionally trained officers, and moreover, you need to monitor the airspace and issue the coordinates of the targets for installation. Considering the fact that the militias do not have such equipment, it is very unlikely that the Buk air defense missile systems, if they exist among the militias, worked across the sky that day. A technique such as the Buk air defense system can be successfully used by the army, not partisans.

              6. Boeing - accompanied by two fighters, and two fighters of the Ukrainian Air Force - the pilot managed to convey this. At the same time, according to several militias, they watched as the Ukrainian Su-25 launched air-to-air missiles.

              But this - it seems unlikely - Ukrainian Su-25 after modernization can carry the only air-to-air weapons - 2 obsolete P-60 missiles with very mediocre performance characteristics.

              In addition, what is the point of suspending air-to-air weapons on the Ukrainian Air Force attack aircraft now? Is it ... perhaps it was suspended on that day, after the information that the Russian plane attacked and shot down a Ukrainian attack aircraft passed?

              So theoretically - a missile from a Ukrainian attack aircraft could also have hit. Theoretically, there could even be an air battle between the Ukrainian attack aircraft and the LNR Air Force attack aircraft.
              1. +8
                21 July 2014 16: 18
                7. Another nuance. According to Wikipedia, the maximum height of combat use of the Su-25 is five thousand meters. But if you believe the words of the Malaysian pilot - and there is no reason to not believe him - he was accompanied by two fighters of the Ukrainian Air Force. How could he be “escorted” by the Su-25 if the Boeing was twice their height? So, these were some other fighters, right, the same Ukrainian MiG-29 and Su-27, of which Ukraine has a lot (MiG-29 at 2013 a year or so about 80, Su-27-20).



                8. An indicative restrained reaction of both the EU and the USA. Jen Psaki said that we should refrain from the temptation to quickly find the perpetrators. The EU said that the plane most likely crashed due to technical reasons. At the same time - there was information that the black boxes of the aircraft
                found by militias and will be transferred to Moscow. We are interested in learning the truth about what happened - and therefore, most likely, the international commission will study the black boxes. So to lie - most likely will not succeed.
                From all this - the facts, the unexpectedly restrained reaction of the West - one conclusion suggests itself. The West reliably knows that Ukrainians shot down a civilian plane. And this catastrophe, if the truth can not be silenced, can lead to grave political consequences and the collapse of the entire policy towards Ukraine that the West has been pursuing for the past six months. If you look at Ukraine with an open mind, a terrible picture emerges - the regime of dubious legitimacy uses armed forces , including artillery and aircraft against the inhabitants of their country. On the territory that is considered peaceful - there are numerous atrocities, physical reprisals against dissidents, to which there is evidence. A significant part of the Ukrainian government is made up of neo-Nazis, and neo-Nazi ideology is spreading throughout Ukraine. With the connivance of the government, one ethnic group commits serious crimes against another ethnic group, the most striking example of these atrocities is the events in Odessa. Nazi, racist, xenophobic calls and proposals for terrorist attacks, including at nuclear power plants, are spreading on the Internet. And the West - it supported everything for a long time.
                1. 0
                  21 July 2014 16: 44
                  . And the West - it supported everything for a long time.

                  Well, this is what the West hell confesses!
                2. +2
                  21 July 2014 17: 02
                  In addition to the cries of Western politicians, there are no sane comments on the death of a Boeing. Even the Amerikos military commented restrainedly, they did not want to get into the hole. All normal professionals have a dislike for corrupt politicians. Hope it works in this case. Specialists who will investigate the disaster will still be objective.
          2. +3
            21 July 2014 16: 19
            NEXT on the situation in the BNR and LNR ...
            16-06, video of the shelling of Donetsk 16-00, The militias report that in Donetsk they have already destroyed 2 Grad MLRS and 1 armored personnel carrier of the Ukrainian military, civilian journalists report. They note that the militia is firing from the installations "Nona" and "Grad".
            There is every reason to believe that the Nazis will be cleaned by nightfall. A group of looters was promptly caught in the area of ​​the railway station by Dolgovtsy, "the representative of the militia notes.
            15-50, In Donetsk, the situation is currently extremely tense, the epicenter of hostilities is located in the north-west of the city - in the Kiev and Kuibyshev districts. According to eyewitnesses, residents of these areas who did not have time to leave the apartments are now in urban bomb shelters


            1. 0
              21 July 2014 17: 03
              further on the situation in the Donbass ....

              16-11, Directions of the junta strikes.

              16-15, Gorlovka. Explosions and shots are heard in the vicinity of the Gagarin mine. Somewhere at 12:00 on the same day, an airplane flew over the Gagarin mine area and dropped 2 "Heat traps" and 1 rocket

              16-30, Militias report that the Ukrainian security forces who had seized Rubezhnoye hung the Ukrainian flag on the administration building and began to conduct apartment sweeps, citizen journalists report. According to the militia, security officials take away packaging of vodka, juice, drinks, and some expensive cars are taken along with people.
              "Filtered" by the full program. The first step was to cut off the Russian channels, even before they went to hang the flag. Ukrainians now go with lists of conscripts, they take them to the National Guard, "according to representatives of the militia.
              1. 0
                21 July 2014 17: 07
                further, but the chronicle of the fighting on July 21 ...
                16-50, According to Strelkov's reports: The fighting continues at Karlovka, Nightolovo. The enemy's attack fizzles out. A counterattack by tanks from the Vostok unit eliminated the threat to the village of Peski. Our "Nona" attacked enemy positions at the airport. The fire of the DRG at the entrance to the airport destroyed a KAMAZ with ammunition.
                Our artillery attacked enemy positions south of Marinovka in the area of ​​Snezhnoye. Two enemy armored vehicles dug into the ground were destroyed, but infantry have not yet been able to advance forward - Ukrainians are constantly drawing fresh reserves to the area.
                Debalcevo remains in the hands of the militia - reports of his surrender turned out to be false. However, the route to the north is intercepted by a large group of enemy tanks.
                In Dzerzhinsk, the local militia, in collaboration with the detachments and armored vehicles of I. Bezler, almost completely destroyed the National Guard detachment, which captured the city administration building at night - the remains of the detachment were blocked in a burning building and burned with it. The convoy of paratroopers coming to the rescue did not dare to enter the city building and retreated towards Konstantinovka. The city continues to undergo massive shelling from all types of heavy artillery. The city center is particularly affected. The militia lost about 15 people killed and wounded, losses ukrov - much more.
                In general, the situation for the Armed Forces of the DPR remains difficult, military operations with the attendant destruction continue to spread more and more.
                16-33, On a hill near the Rostov cemetery (Artyomovsk, DPR), 2 entrenched junta tanks were spotted

        4. +3
          21 July 2014 16: 06
          Quote: a52333
          Too few holes.

          what Photos of the Boeing were where torn and wide "wounds" at the hull are adjacent to even holes. What can we say about the pins in the projectile! And this is an air-to-air missile! It seems to me that the Boeing fell in the wrong place! Surely it should have fallen on the territory Russia, then Russia would be an aggressor country! How low the fascinating monsters will still fall ...
        5. +3
          21 July 2014 16: 11
          It is suspicious that the experts from the commission have not reached yet, the longer they go, the more chances ukrov have to level all the evidence with the ground.
          1. +2
            21 July 2014 16: 39
            Quote: g1v2
            It is suspicious that the experts from the commission have not reached yet, the longer they go, the more chances ukrov have to level all the evidence with the ground.

            An investigation into the crash of a Malaysian airliner in the Donetsk region will be conducted in the Netherlands, said President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko.
            "Yesterday, after a conversation with the Prime Minister of the Netherlands, I instructed the head of the investigation commission, Deputy Prime Minister Vladimir Groisman, and Foreign Minister Pavel Klimkin to ensure the immediate return of the bodies home and the conduct of investigative actions by a commission led by ICAO in the Netherlands," the president said after visiting the Dutch embassy in Ukraine on Monday.

            "We have received assurances that the Netherlands will render maximum assistance to the actions of this commission of inquiry," he added.

            P. Poroshenko also stated that "this terrible tragedy united our countries - Ukraine and the Netherlands."

            “We have never seen so many flowers on Kontraktova Square as today near the Dutch embassy. Despite the fact that Ukraine itself is now going through a terrible test, despite the fact that Ukraine itself suffers numerous losses, I think that this sea of ​​flowers is a symbol the dignity of our peoples - the very dignity that was demonstrated during the Maidan, "the head of state stressed.

            The President stressed that Ukraine and the Netherlands "agreed to clearly coordinate actions not only in returning the bodies of the victims home, not only in investigating the causes of the disaster, but also very tightly to coordinate actions so that the perpetrators, organizers and customers of this terrible crime are brought to justice and suffered the punishment they deserved. "
        6. +1
          21 July 2014 16: 15
          Missed a beech?
          Well, duck there are two more dryers (su27 with Croatian mercenaries), these could "air-to-air" and "insure".
          1. +3
            21 July 2014 16: 47
            Quote: Paradoxov
            Have you missed the beech? Well, duck there are two more dryers (su27 with Croatian mercenaries), these could "air-to-air" and "insure".

            Excuse me with any mercenaries? Croatian? And why not immediately with Polish or American? Well, Croatia doesn’t have modern fighters, only MiG-21, or do you believe that the Ustash will jump from the MiG-21 cockpit to the Su-27 cockpit once ...
            Croatia - 8 MiG-21bis-D and 4 MiG-21UM-D, as of 2011 year.

            http://www.milaviapress.com/orbat/croatia/index.php


            Why Su-27, and not MiG-29? Both types of fighters are in service with the Ukrainian Air Force, and if the MiG-29 can be Poles and Hungarians and Romanians and Czechs, etc., the entire former ATS is shorter.
            Now, regarding the version with an air-to-air missile from a Ukrainian fighter:
            The missiles of the warhead are all fragmentation. Because the speed of propagation of a blast wave in air is 334 m / s. And modern goals fly much faster.
            As a rule, modern warheads are created with ready-made submunitions. They differ not according to the principle of "high-explosive fragmentation" vs "core", but according to the principle of the direction of the fragmentation field. There are those who direct the fragmentation field in the direction of the missile. But with this there are problems when firing targets with high speed characteristics or strongly maneuvering. There are those who direct the fragmentary field to the side. There is a very original design, by the way. There are those that form a cloud of debris in the form of a ring directed at an angle to the course of the rocket (that way forward and sideways). Such in the first version of the Buk rocket. And there are those that form an expanding ring of rods, directed along the course of the rocket. The latter is called the core warhead. Following a simple logic, it is also "high-explosive fragmentation".
            But. The thing is that the finished striking elements in the form of rods can be not only in the core warhead. They can be in the form of cubes and in the form of rods of round or square section. They are different. Cores in general can be cut from a continuous pipe by a cutting warhead, though this is no longer a GGE.
            Therefore, the production of round eyes and the uttering of speeches "since these are rods, then this is not Beech, but air-to-air" I propose to finish. Instead, wait for one of two events to occur.
            Or the conclusions of the commission will suit the Russian Federation. And then we all will understand which of the hu.
            Or the conclusions of the commission of the Russian Federation will not suit you and our country will publish the data on the coverage of the air situation, which, without a doubt, are written down. And then see the output from p. 1.
            1. Ujin61
              +1
              21 July 2014 17: 39
              Please tell me what is stopping the Russian Federation from publishing the air situation data now? Only one thing is missing. Otherwise, it is puffing up our cheeks and making formidable looks from the underbelly. If Russian specialists are not allowed to participate in the decoding of recorders, all dogs will be hanged on us again.
      4. +7
        21 July 2014 15: 59
        Poroshenko can jump as much as he wants, black boxes are already in Donetsk. As the saying goes, the pens are there.
        1. +4
          21 July 2014 16: 09
          Gee, did you see about the composition of the ICAO aviation commission arriving in Kiev? Some British and Americans!
          So, put optimism in a ballot box - at least the investigation will be dragged on for a couple of months, explaining the safety of evidence as low, and as a maximum the indictment report is ready, and since there are experts in the commission from Kiev and Kiev removed controllers' negotiations, and now you can draw anything .

          And our chitroputin did not even dare to demand the inclusion of experts from the IAC in the commission.
          Although it’s the people who scum it, and we are interested!
          1. +1
            21 July 2014 16: 42
            Quote: Deff
            And our chitroputin did not even dare to demand the inclusion of experts from the IAC in the commission.

            Here it is not necessary to condemn so briskly! Otherwise, why would Petya say today ...
            President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko instructed to attract Russian experts to investigate the causes of the crash of the Boeing 777 Malaysian Airlines in the Donetsk region.

            “As the Ukrainian president, from the very first minutes I invited representatives of the countries that suffered, first of all, representatives of the Netherlands, Malaysia, Germany, Great Britain, Australia, the USA and gave instructions to invite a Russian representative. In order for all this to happen as transparent as possible, ”he said during a visit to the Malaysian Embassy in Kiev, Vesti.ru reports citing Interfax.
          2. 0
            21 July 2014 16: 46
            Quote: Deff
            And our chitroputin did not even dare to demand the inclusion of experts from the IAC in the commission.

            It has long been, does not require anything ...
            1. +1
              21 July 2014 17: 15
              Quote: Russ69
              It has long been, does not require anything ...

              Yeah ... just suddenly he took and convenes a meeting of the Security Council with the difficult formulation "... at which it is planned to consider a set of issues related to ensuring the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Russian Federation"
              Even if only a blablab is shown on TV (as usual), then I won’t be surprised that the decisions made will then turn into bitter heartburn for some. I'm waiting.
            2. +2
              21 July 2014 17: 45
              Quote: Russ69
              It has long been, does not require anything ...

              Yes, yes, that's for sure! Does not require...
              Now, if he demanded, with foam at his mouth, he would criticize obscene (like the former acting minister Deshchitsa), then yes, everyone would be afraid, all the healthy men in Donetsk and Lugansk would join the militia, and Obama would ask for pardon. Yes
              Fuck here to demand. All demands no more than a concussion.
              Things will go uphill only with a major military success of the militia in the Donbass and the economic "priest", i.e. extreme discontent of the Svidomo population in the Square. In the meantime, the militias are not enough, the svidomye get drunk in Turkish hotels and have to thrash them there for conscious Russians and various French and Caucasian who have joined them.
              So why the hell to say?
              It remains only quietly, (probably, South Ossetia and Abkhazia wink) to throw up arms and military equipment, and provide rear services to the militia. Minimize trade with Ukraine.
              I don’t know how much this is being done intensively and correctly, whether everyone is doing their duty honestly, the arsenal of weapons, why Lyashko is still not found in the bathroom with a piece of fat in the company or in the priest.
              But I know that the questions are: to start a war in the Donbass or to limit myself to comprehensive assistance extremely not simple and you can’t help here with different kinds of declarations.
          3. Stalker
            0
            21 July 2014 17: 10
            Gee, did you see about the composition of the ICAO aviation commission arriving in Kiev? Some British and Americans!

            Russian specialists also enter the commission ... Paras insisted on this ...
        2. +1
          21 July 2014 16: 10
          Quote: Thought Giant
          Poroshenko can jump as much as he wants, black boxes are already in Donetsk.

          Is that why they are now so actively bombing and shelling Donetsk that they want to seize or destroy incriminating evidence.
      5. Vik.Tor
        +2
        21 July 2014 16: 02
        Now he’ll open fire from the city to hide evidence, and will accuse the militias that they are hiding evidence. Here you are !!!
        As always, think strategically, although you don’t need to have a big mind to do this.
        1. +6
          21 July 2014 16: 11
          The soldiers of the National Guard asked the Dnepropetrovsk Jews to send them matzah

          As it became known, "Dnepropetrovsk. Comments ”from a message on the website of the Dnepropetrovsk Jewish community, on the Constitution Day of Ukraine, parishioners of the Zolotaya Roza synagogue and members of the Dnepropetrovsk Jewish religious community prepared and sent presents for soldiers preparing to go to the war zone, as well as for soldiers wounded during the anti-terrorist operation .

          In addition to foodstuffs, with the money raised we acquired the necessary hygiene products, as well as drinking water.

          “Thank you very much, this help is very important to us,” said the officer who received the help, “we ask you to bring your wonderful matzo next time. It’s very convenient on the campaign and during combat missions, it’s not stale and very high in calories.”
          http://dnepr.comments.ua/news/2014/07/04/160512.html
          It seems to me alone that something is wrong! what
        2. +1
          21 July 2014 17: 14
          Quote: Vik.Tor
          Now he’ll open fire from the city to hide evidence, and will accuse the militias that they are hiding evidence.

          Well! Already burn the evidence! So far, only in the Ukrainian falsehood!

          A fire broke out at the crash site of a Boeing 777 in eastern Ukraine.

          The fire started at the crash site of a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 plane that crashed on July 17 near Torez, Donetsk region of Ukraine. According to Ukrainska Pravda, with reference to its correspondent, who is at the scene, the things of the passengers of the plane burn. The fire arose due to natural conditions, the newspaper suggests

          RT
      6. The comment was deleted.
      7. The comment was deleted.
      8. DMB-88
        +1
        21 July 2014 16: 17
        it’s a pity that this guy ... is still alive!
      9. +2
        21 July 2014 16: 37
        Hmm ... How can you believe the Nazis? Damn ... Apparently another provocation is being prepared !!! We will see!!!
      10. Stalker
        +2
        21 July 2014 16: 44
        Now it’s sure to open fire from the city,

        Such a mind is enough to open fire and experts and then blame the DPR for self-defense ....
      11. raccoon
        +2
        21 July 2014 16: 50
        Please put an electronic signature in support of the Lugansk and Donetsk People's Republics. To the Russian government, finally officially recognized their independence: http://www.sborgolosov.ru/voiteview.php?voite=1009
      12. +2
        21 July 2014 19: 13
        This "woman of easy virtue who provides sexual services for material reward" for the money of the USA, now precisely, at an opportunity, will fire from the "guns of the militia" by the calculations of the national guard Kolomoytsev, all international organizations investigating the Boeing 777 catastrophe, just not allow quick and objective investigation of the incident. Ukraine does not need the truth, it is satisfied with hysteria about this, based on versions and assumptions. Turchynov has already asked the United States for the provision of high-precision weapons, the US State Department in the first reading adopted a draft resolution on the recognition of Ukraine as a friendly state, which entails all the consequences, from the provision of weapons to an open armed trial, plus the initiative of the President of Ukraine Poroshenko to recognize the DPR and the LPR by terrorist organizations, which provides the United States with additional grounds for providing weapons and specialists to fight "world terrorism" in the person of those who disagree with the Kiev junta. Time and hysteria on the part of the EU, the USA and London, in this case, time plays entirely in Ukraine. I cannot even imagine how Russia will come out of this situation in the person of V.V. Putin. and its authorized representatives, for everything that Russia is now declaring reminds me of a conversation between a mute and a deaf: "You said something - but I don't care." I can only hope that the BB has a "trump card" in its sleeve in the form of a clear telemetry of the Ukrainian missile flight, whether it is "ground-to-air", or "air-to-air" with the flight route of the Ukrainian SU-25, which Russia will provide ICAO on its to the request, it was almost openly stated that these data are available, maybe this is one of the reasons for the delay in the start of the work of the international commission. What will happen after this we will only speculate until we witness the events.
    2. +5
      21 July 2014 15: 51
      Probably experts bought by the USA will come from the Netherlands, since Poroshenko knows who they will blame.
      1. +8
        21 July 2014 17: 03
        The theater of the absurd continues ..
    3. +3
      21 July 2014 15: 51
      ... Poroshenko: within a radius of 40 km (around the place where the plane crashed), the Ukrainian military did not open fire ....


      Sts hook on paid experts. Painfully dear guests. If prislipki from ukrarmiya bang someone, you won’t be able to forever .... But kalomoysha can podsuetsya and shit parashka ..., put on grandmothers .... In Ukraine, the aligarchs like that. Nothing personal, purely business ...
      1. +2
        21 July 2014 16: 38
        Quote: SS68SS
        ... Poroshenko: within a radius of 40 km (around the place where the plane crashed), the Ukrainian military did not open fire ....


        It seems to me that this is preparation for the next ukroprovokatsiya. Like - we do not shoot, but upon the arrival of the commission - they zhahnut specifically and "write off" on the militias. You cannot expect normal actions from them.
    4. Andrey82
      +3
      21 July 2014 15: 52
      So they will certainly open. Ukrainians are.
      1. +2
        21 July 2014 15: 57
        Quote: Andrey82
        So they will certainly open. Ukrainians are.

        well, Kolomoians, military f * cats darling, these can provoke and shoot begin to launch. if Poroshenko’s power there
      2. Vik.Tor
        0
        21 July 2014 16: 05
        Out of joke, so to speak laughing
    5. +3
      21 July 2014 15: 54
      Three hundred victims of politics. What else are the states using to "heat up" the situation? Who will die next for the prosperity of a "great America"?
      1. Vitalka
        +5
        21 July 2014 16: 10
        Just a minute, how many victims of innocent people in the punitive operation zone were ukrovoyak? Why is silence about them. And there are only children, only according to recognized cue reports forty people. And women, the elderly, the peaceful huts? At 4-5 Malaysian Boeing! Are these not victims of politics?
    6. Matt
      +2
      21 July 2014 15: 54
      Not even half a year has passed, will he also marinate the international commission for a week, shouting at the same time that the militias are rigging evidence?
    7. +1
      21 July 2014 15: 54
      You can't give them the "boxes", I smell "air-to-air" with my nose ....
    8. The comment was deleted.
      1. +1
        21 July 2014 16: 03
        Quote: refrigerator
        IT IS YOU -
        - say everything correctly! And now we need to print and scatter leaflets over the whole of Ukraine! Maybe the percentage of crazy people will decrease a little! hi
      2. +1
        21 July 2014 16: 05
        We also eat sorcerers and children. It’s impossible to have all of them fit into one comb.
        1. +4
          21 July 2014 16: 16
          Quote: Barracuda
          We also eat sorcerers and children. It’s impossible to have all of them fit into one comb.


          Do not be angry...

          Quote: refrigerator
          LONGER, RUSSOPHOBES, PARANOIKI, BANDERLOGY, MAYDOWNS, PROVOCATORS, FROZEN TEENAGERS AND OUTDOOR NAZIS.


          Here is the key phrase.
        2. 0
          21 July 2014 17: 16
          ... On the other hand, look at yourself, it is useful, sometimes, if you have brains and a little conscience.
    9. +12
      21 July 2014 15: 55
      Somehow like this...
      1. +1
        21 July 2014 16: 04
        +100500! Image is highly artistic and morally verified!
      2. VICTOR-61
        +1
        21 July 2014 16: 11
        As we wait for this day, another Yatsenyuk Turchyn Kolomets and others will find handcuffs for Shusher for him.
      3. 0
        21 July 2014 16: 44
        That would be right. And rightly so. For bombing civilians, for lying, for pursuing a policy aimed at inciting ethnic hatred.
    10. evilrussian
      +3
      21 July 2014 15: 57
      We know their promises. They will say that they will not shoot, but they themselves will shoot at the Dutch, and then suddenly "it turns out" that this is Russia. As usual...
    11. DPZ
      +3
      21 July 2014 15: 57
      I don’t even want to write on this topic. soon the wreckage of the aircraft will rust and the corpses will decompose. and no one got down to business. so interested in Malaysia, Holland and the hedgehog with them in the investigation? so they cherish the dead, or rather their memory?
    12. +2
      21 July 2014 15: 58
      And the perpetrators are already known and the recorders probably prepared with reliable data, and relatives with specialists will be brought to the scene. Why hurry. By the way, and still hail to him. Well, what? It happens. Putin is to blame for everything.
    13. +1
      21 July 2014 15: 58
      They should not be allowed to the wreckage, they can calmly pick up the black boxes and "lose" them on the way ... But this should not be allowed! It seems to me that we need to call the international commission and send all the evidence together with it somewhere in Europe.
    14. zzz
      zzz
      +1
      21 July 2014 16: 00
      Something went wrong again, as they wanted, apparently they are improvising at a very high speed. I'm talking about the USA, because dill have forgotten how to think, and with amateur performances they only have a "circus on a dart", as Verka Serduchka said.
    15. Vik.Tor
      +1
      21 July 2014 16: 00
      He had previously disposed of it and ceased fire, peacemaker of dicks.
    16. +1
      21 July 2014 16: 02
      And yet, he invited Russian experts to the commission to investigate the death of the Boeing.
    17. +8
      21 July 2014 16: 02
      On July 18, the head of the SBU Nalivaichenko announced the seizure of some “spotters” of “Buk” from Russia. The head of the SBU of Ukraine says that education ended at the initial pre-school ??? What the hell are spotters for air defense systems ?????? (I'd like to put it in other words, but the forum rules do not allow it).
      1. +1
        21 July 2014 16: 09
        The FSB spotters had special long-sighted binoculars for guiding missiles allegedly launched by the "BUK" battery. Laughter, and nothing more.
      2. +1
        21 July 2014 18: 00
        Quote: Znayka
        What the hell are spotters for air defense systems

        And yet - one of them was with a military ID, which says: "VUS - spotter of fire."
        Oh having fun hearing this!
        laughing
    18. +2
      21 July 2014 16: 07
      What do you mean ordered?
      As the supreme GK, he must issue an order to his uncontrolled "army", not an order. Another bluff and a puddle!
    19. +1
      21 July 2014 16: 07
      Who now, the money will be taken away ..?

      Ministry of Finance: About UAH 1,5 billion per month is needed to conduct ATO in the East Today, 11:52 "The reserve fund currently has about 520 million. And ATO needs about 1,5 billion per month, we need to look for additional resources ", - said Shlapak

      And we are likely to begin to digest new sanctions. Although with our ostrich policy, we must on the contrary reward ...

      MOSCOW, Jul 21 - RIA News. The EU is ready to impose new sanctions against Russia, said the British Prime Minister.

      RIA Novosti http://ria.ru/world/20140721/1016909983.html#ixzz386VbP7Ju
    20. Arh
      0
      21 July 2014 16: 09
      So puke the hunt for this fucking dill along with the geyropa and yuzami WHAT !!!
    21. +1
      21 July 2014 16: 13
      Usually after such decrees PARAShenka shelling begins.
      Blaming the militias.
    22. maxim1
      +1
      21 July 2014 16: 13
      You can’t believe a single gram!
      It may be in a sweet and clear childhood dream APU and will not shoot.
      This is how "wild geese" shoot, who are not subordinate to the president at all.
      He will replace all the stupid videos and say that the ensign is a scoundrel, he has downloaded the wrong videos. But we, like, sent him to the eternal glaciers of the Carpathians (or to mine the Yellow Waters uranium for life).
    23. +1
      21 July 2014 16: 13
      The head of counterintelligence of the self-proclaimed Luhansk People's Republic, Vladimir Gromov, on the air of the Russia-1 TV channel put forward his version of the death of the Malaysian airline's Boeing 777.

      In his opinion, the blame for the destruction of the liner lies with the Ukrainian side. Gromov believes that the plane was supposed to crash on Russian territory in order to blame not only the militia but also Moscow for its death.

      Gromov assures that the Buk M 1 anti-aircraft missile systems were delivered to Donetsk on July 15, that is, a day before the tragedy. Immediately after the death of the liner, the air defense system was sent back, but one missile was missing.

      "They purposefully led this passenger plane to the territory of hostilities. They clearly informed the pilot, and the dispatcher gave commands over which territory and exactly where to fly," Gromov said.

      Where did he get such information from, the leader of the LPR did not report.

      A few hours after the crash of the Boeing 777, the Russian Ministry of Defense reported that there were 27 Buk M 1 SAM launchers near Donetsk, which were part of the 156th anti-aircraft missile regiment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The military department asked the Ukrainian colleagues why they should install an air defense system during a special operation against militias who do not have aviation.

      The Ukrainian Security Service published audio files in which the militias claim that they allegedly delivered Buk M 1 to their positions from Russia and actively used the system against Ukrainian aircraft.

      Read the full story: http://top.rbc.ru/incidents/21/07/2014/937667.shtml
    24. +2
      21 July 2014 16: 13
      No, well, seriously, there will be no gas in the fall (I pray that they don’t turn it on), sowing seed ... whether, in any case, most (correct if not), no money, no debt ... what do they think at all, what they hope for, in the EU, in the states, IMHO I doubt that they will help, except for cookies and weapons ...
      Crowds of fainting with Kalash on our borders .. darkness!
      And whoever thinks that one won’t get into the Crimea, oh mark my word, will still rumble if Strelkov’s not right now ...
      Not in the subject, but pent.
    25. +1
      21 July 2014 16: 14
      Estonian, what ?! what
    26. +1
      21 July 2014 16: 15
      Tomorrow, the 22nd, Vladimir Putin will hold a meeting of the Security Council on the territorial integrity of Russia

      President Vladimir Putin will hold a meeting of the Russian Security Council tomorrow on the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Russia, the Kremlin’s press service said. A report will be made by Secretary of the Security Council Nikolai Patrushev.

      “A meeting of the Security Council of the Russian Federation will be held on July XNUMX under the chairmanship of President of the Russian Federation Putin, at which it is planned to consider a set of issues related to ensuring the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Russian Federation,” the Kremlin’s press service said.
      1. 0
        21 July 2014 16: 21
        Echo is already commenting on this message with might and main.
    27. +2
      21 July 2014 16: 17
      But what about private mercenaries, his teams apply to them, or how ?????
    28. fisherman
      +13
      21 July 2014 16: 19
      Militias in the Luhansk region captured a mercenary from Sweden, said a representative of the National Security and Defense Council Information Center of Ukraine Andriy Lysenko.
      1. +9
        21 July 2014 16: 40
        Quote: fisherman
        Militias in the Luhansk region captured a mercenary from Sweden,

        Only today, he on TV said that let them come and take. Request completed ... smile
      2. +5
        21 July 2014 16: 41
        How reliable is it, and is it a Swede sniper, is this a bastard
        shooting unarmed in Mariupol?
        1. zzz
          zzz
          +1
          21 July 2014 16: 57
          Quote: aleksfill
          How reliable is it, and is it a Swede sniper, is this a bastard
          shooting unarmed in Mariupol?


          Yes, it's him!
        2. 0
          21 July 2014 20: 11
          Quote: aleksfill
          How reliable is it, and is it a Swede sniper, is this a bastard
          shooting unarmed in Mariupol?
          He shot on the Maidan, literally about three days ago he gave an interview to cnn, there was a program about mercenaries, for the count and for all to see, and let the geyvropa splash with saliva, we are Asians, we’ll act too humane with the mercenaries
      3. +3
        21 July 2014 16: 51
        Only today, the news showed this face of the face, a reward of 80 hryvnyas was assigned for him, boasted: "Well, here I am, catch it." I fought for it.
      4. zzz
        zzz
        +2
        21 July 2014 16: 57
        Quote: fisherman
        Militias in the Luhansk region captured a mercenary from Sweden, said a representative of the National Security and Defense Council Information Center of Ukraine Andriy Lysenko.


        Wow!!!!!!!!!! Just yesterday, he drew on TV, such a bold, the only one without a mask, he said, I'm not afraid)))))) Well done, militias !!!
      5. +2
        21 July 2014 17: 03
        This face. I saw his interview with an Italian reporter. The only one of the mercenaries did not wear a mask. All boasted. Here I am! Let them come and take me!

        Cut it into pieces and put the video on the Internet. Let others think about whether it is worth going to New Russia.
      6. 0
        21 July 2014 17: 42
        Well, what can I say?
        This red-haired and snub-nosed descendant of mercenaries (they are Vikings) got. Did you know what he was going on? Answer me.
      7. 0
        21 July 2014 18: 35
        This goat had to be executed right away, although you can let go and leave a fool for life so that others would not
      8. +1
        22 July 2014 00: 39
        Quote: fisherman
        Militias in the Luhansk region captured a mercenary from Sweden, said a representative of the National Security and Defense Council Information Center of Ukraine Andriy Lysenko.

        ------------------------------------
        If this is true, then hang it by the neck and let it hang until it dies !!!! am laughing
        Now the outflow of scumbags of mercenaries will begin. We need a demonstration execution so that everyone can see what awaits them. There will be many human rights defenders, but no one called him to hunt people, all the more he boasted and made fun.
    29. Vitalka
      +1
      21 July 2014 16: 20
      And now it is too late for the powder-waltzman to drink Borjomi. Now it is impossible to slip into the area of ​​the plane crash even on a gray mare. There's no point. The militia said to the whole world that they had found some objects that looked like black boxes. Will be handed over to the owners. Those. Malaysians will calculate the exact place of destruction in the air of the aircraft. According to the characteristic damage to the skin, the angle of impact of the projectile (fragments) and, accordingly, the launch point of the rocket will be determined. If there was a dill, then its presence will also be recorded in the "box". The only question is how long Ukrainians with striped ones will be able to hold out the ICAO investigation. They need to get more sanctions against the Russian Federation. Maybe the GDP will not stand it and will send troops to the Ruin. And then the soup with the cat. Nobody will give a damn about the victims of the plane crash. Well, a mistake came out, just think, we don't have enough bacon!
      1. The comment was deleted.
    30. +2
      21 July 2014 16: 20
      Presidential directions are being circulated on Twitter. To say that this is PESEC is the same as saying nothing. It turns out that the state does not have official channels and media to inform its civil and military institutions (not in the sense of universities) about its own decrees and orders. Something is hard to believe that every Ukrainian soldier or National Guard hacker has at least antediluvian CCP in order to familiarize himself with Poroshenko’s latest infringements with his help.
      But can ukravlasti think about the revival of pagers? Well, what’s convenient - he gave birth to a decree (order, order, order, hedgehog through the anus against the wool), the secretary sends all the information to pagers. Again, America and Europe can be helped — most likely somewhere in their warehouses were an illiquid couple of millions of pagers .
      1. 0
        21 July 2014 20: 31
        that's for sure. The President !! (whatever) through some kind of tweeter gives orders .... well, nonsense, PPC
    31. +5
      21 July 2014 16: 28
      ... there is only one way out:
    32. +4
      21 July 2014 16: 29
      http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2014/171/dlqv142.jpg
    33. +1
      21 July 2014 16: 29
      Even here they are trying to cheat!
      We take on the map the center of Grabovka-Rassypnoye (the place where the Boeing fell) and draw a radius of 40 km (a tool for measuring the distances of a Yandex map). For militias, this zone of the ATO termination does not give anything, it is important only for the blocked armed forces group (the southern sector of the ATO termination) in the Marinovka-Amvrosievka area (40 km).
    34. +1
      21 July 2014 16: 30
      Poroshenko visited the Embassy of the Netherlands, where he announced that "Ukraine is doing everything to investigate the attack on the liner."

      Reverence to each other do. And comrade Rutte, you ask this new one of your sidekick Poroshenko for data on the operation of air defense systems Ukrovsk, data on the work of dispatchers from Boryspil. What, your preoccupied ukropidogolladskoe community would require of you? Or all, he fell under the pressure of s.
    35. +1
      21 July 2014 16: 31
      Well, everyone already knows the culprits, despite the fact that they pretend to be European blind.
    36. +2
      21 July 2014 16: 35
      "According to the established Ukrainian tradition, this statement of the president was disseminated through social networks by the press secretary of the ukropresident, Mr. Tsegolko."

      Healthy ukrov orders and orders are transmitted. UkroZAS in action.
      1. 0
        21 July 2014 17: 25
        Do they have social networks now official channels?
        They stole and prosr @ whether their country. Even real state info channels are gone.
        Wrote: "State channels".
        And ... maybe there was no state?
    37. +2
      21 July 2014 16: 36
      An example should be taken from Israel. Clean out all this 100-200 km ukrpogan with pinpoint strikes and recognize "Novorossiya"
      1. 0
        21 July 2014 17: 57
        And then, I also wrote: We need to learn from Jewish comrades. They act the same way as the overseas patron: they decided to clean up someone's face, be sure, they will clean it up. And they lied with their modernized device on all resolutions, resolutions and other public opinion. from the "neighbor" several water pipes with TNT (no matter where) - get a response with a prize multiplied by 50. Not everyone got it ??? it doesn't matter right now, a couple of divisions on armor will explain the basement to the most stubborn. And the fact that civilians are not the edge sickly hooked ??? Anything in war happens !!!! But the scoundrels p-dy ogrebli and the army is constantly in good shape, it is not in vain that shekels receive.
        They sentenced some terrorist in absentia, be sure in 5-10-15-20 years, but they’ll kill you anyway as soon as he draws. And no matter where: in the desert, in Europe, in the center of New York, they don’t care, they saw ALL , and the UN and even the USA: - own shirt closer to the body.
        I respect !!!! and ours need to learn so
    38. +3
      21 July 2014 16: 50
      The commission will work slowly and sadly. And the results of the investigation can be expected somewhere in a year. Not earlier. It was exactly the same in Syria a year ago. They accused the Syrian army of using chemical weapons. I was almost bombed. And a year later, a report appears that the militants had poisonous substances. And everything is quiet, as in a swamp. It will be so now.
      1. 0
        21 July 2014 17: 07
        And what did you want ??? A test tube with its own shit at the UN showed khan to Iraq, the democracy is already there, so everywhere (Libya, Afghanistan, etc.) Then everything pops up (IT always pops up, the law of physics) everyone knows and they fig one Hero request How is that????!! am
    39. 0
      21 July 2014 16: 54
      And so, obeyed?
    40. 0
      21 July 2014 16: 57
      Yeah, I just forgot to tell my Natsik about it, there they’re showing in the news how they are playing with Luhank and Donetsk, they’re only slivers, OBESHESSKI from the hotel barely managed to dump, what will they say now ??? ?? !!!!
    41. 0
      21 July 2014 17: 00
      This is very easy to determine. What Kiev planes were in the air at that time. From which airport did they fly in and at what time. Where were at that very moment.
    42. +1
      21 July 2014 17: 00
      If I were Tsar of All Russia, the commission would work quickly and in Moscow .... bully
    43. +1
      21 July 2014 17: 03
      After the lapse of time since the start of KOs against SE, it has become more clear that it is not Kiev that makes any decisions on the scale of the former Ukraine.
      It follows that this decree on a ceasefire in the crash zone will be used by Kiev for another provocation, or at least for regrouping forces.
      What do the militias do not have the right to advise them since they themselves understand everything perfectly and there are no fools there, as I understand it. The only thing I would like to say to them is this: guys, hold on, you are fighting not only for Novorossia but also for the whole Russian people . With you the truth and strength are on your side.
    44. +3
      21 July 2014 17: 03
      According to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, at the time of the Boeing 777 crash in the sky over Ukraine on July 17, a Ukrainian Air Force aircraft, presumably Su-25, was near the civilian side. The distance of the Ukrainian Su-25 from the Boeing 777 was up to five kilometers, which fits into the range parameters of the air-to-air missiles that such aircraft are equipped with.
      21 July 2014, 16: 57

      Original article: http://russian.rt.com/article/41842#ixzz386k31YEk
    45. raccoon
      +1
      21 July 2014 17: 13
      Quote: Novel 1977
      So theoretically - a missile from a Ukrainian attack aircraft could also have hit. Theoretically, there could even be an air battle between the Ukrainian attack aircraft and the LNR Air Force attack aircraft.

      Su-25 attack aircraft, the ceiling of this aircraft is 7000 meters, combat use is 5000 meters, what attack aircraft does Roman 1877 speak about ??? unclear! about UFOs ??? if they accompanied Boeing, and I am sure that it was the fascists who shot down, it was either the SU-24, SU-27, or the MiG-29, most likely the SU-24 blasted the cannon, the ceiling of the aircraft is 11500 meters, there are missiles in service "air-to-air" !!! something like this.
      1. 0
        21 July 2014 17: 51
        I put a plus for high-altitude refinements, to bite the maximum ceiling of the SU-25 - 10 000, and there were requirements for the Boeing to drop to 10 000 with 10 600 ... Maybe this is due to this?
      2. +1
        22 July 2014 00: 52
        Quote: raccoon
        Su-25 attack aircraft, the ceiling of this aircraft is 7000 meters, combat use is 5000 meters, what attack aircraft does Roman 1877 speak about ??? unclear! about UFOs ??? if they accompanied Boeing, and I am sure that it was the fascists who shot down, it was either the SU-24, SU-27, or the MiG-29, most likely the SU-24 blasted the cannon, the ceiling of the aircraft is 11500 meters, there are missiles in service "air-to-air" !!! something like this.

        There is a static ceiling, this is the height of a stable flight, and there is a dynamic that the plane can climb during acceleration. So the Su-25 has a dynamic ceiling of 10000 meters.
        For example: the MiG-31 had a static ceiling of 20600 meters, and a dynamic maximum was 37500 meters.
        There is a difference?
    46. Serge56
      0
      21 July 2014 17: 19
      beautiful photo!))
      four knots, two rottweilers /, but on the contrary two bobiks))
    47. +1
      21 July 2014 17: 22
      No comment ...
    48. 0
      21 July 2014 17: 23
      Quote: max702
      Actually, there are a lot of questions to the Russian Ministry of Defense and other services that are charged with monitoring these processes, I believe that air defense systems should be deployed in a strengthened version in this direction, and therefore reconnaissance and detection tools in sufficient numbers, based on this, I hope to assume that the picture of what happened is thoroughly documented and all interested persons are on course. But so far, according to the statements of our elite, everything is very muddy, or there really is a tough bidding on all positions and nuances .. Although there may already be familiar incompetence and lack of care (did not put radars, did not observe flights, did not document all this) and there is no real data .. That is, we again inflate our cheeks and make menacing eyes ..

      At the briefing, everything was documented, including the dill plane
    49. 0
      21 July 2014 17: 28
      that "Ukraine is doing everything to investigate the attack on the liner." And after all, how quickly Ukraine does everything for the investigation ..

      IN CHAMELION !!!!!!
    50. 0
      21 July 2014 17: 42
      Quote: surovts.valery
      In addition to the cries of Western politicians, there are no sane comments on the death of a Boeing. Even the Amerikos military commented restrainedly, they did not want to get into the hole. All normal professionals have a dislike for corrupt politicians. Hope it works in this case. Specialists who will investigate the disaster will still be objective.

      hostility towards politicians - this is understandable ... the current people, however cool the military - are on guard of the interests of their country (read: their STATE) ... as in the whole world ... they swear this ... .and they get money for this ... so, oh, if it’s not a fact that the Pentagon dares to blather for the White House ...
    51. 0
      21 July 2014 18: 49
      коль озвучено поросенком, теперь жди провокаций однозначно hi
    52. The comment was deleted.
    53. 0
      21 July 2014 19: 09
      Специальный брифинг Минобороны России по вопросам катастрофы рейса MH17 в небе Украины
      http://function.mil.ru/news_page/country/more.htm?id=11970654@egNews
    54. 0
      21 July 2014 19: 42
      Poroshenko visited the Embassy of the Netherlands, where he announced that "Ukraine is doing everything to investigate the attack on the liner."

      Quote: Veteran of the Red Army
      In the Netherlands, all channels widely showed how Ukrainians paid tribute to the victims, and that sea of ​​flowers and candles that they brought to the Embassy in Kiev.


      Singer Ruslana fell on flowers at the Embassy of the Netherlands in Kiev
      And so - asshole sluts from people's memory.



      http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2014/856/rrar522.jpg
    55. 0
      21 July 2014 20: 20
      Только что бешеная обезьяна отметилась: говорит, что ополченцы не допускают экспертов в район падения самолёта, отгоняют их, открывают огонь...Нелюди прям...Усыплять надо обезьяну- Yes ...
    56. 0
      21 July 2014 20: 30
      До чего хо*лы довели свою армию, танки взрываются, сгорают сами по себе, солдаты как драные, вонючие бомжи, самолёты не могут взлететь, а которые взлетают сбивают сами себя просроченными ракетами, детонирующими при их пуске. Осталось только бандерглавнокомандующему х*й пойми чего, застрелиться случайно из ручки Галетея. Ужас, просто уужаас! laughing
    57. +1
      22 July 2014 01: 30
      По результатам брифинга, проведенного МО РФ, американцы и их холуи будут вынуждены менять тактику по обвинению России в гибели самолета. При этом не исключено, что допустят очередные проколы(т.к. реагировать надо быстро), которые сыграют на руку нам.
      We'll see.
    58. 0
      22 July 2014 01: 46
      21.07.14/23/44. XNUMX:XNUMX Message from the militia who accompanied the Malay experts.

      "украинцы пытались накрыть малайзийских спецов. Как знающего английский, отправили меня вечером с малайцами на место крушения. украинцы были поставлены в известность о выезде. За Харцизском в паре км впереди нас они стали стрелять по дороге с воздуха, забили как минимум одну гражданскую машину. Малайцы в ужасе. Возвращаемся в Донецк сейчас.© http://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_8301

      Да не дадут они нормально обследовать место и обломки.Это уж как ожидалось .
    59. The comment was deleted.
      1. +1
        22 July 2014 02: 43
        Quote: dada
        у них укров вся страна такая.

        Пасть закрой сучара..,
        и за всех украинцев Do not dare так трещать!
        1. nvv
          nvv
          0
          22 July 2014 03: 06
          Согласен.Только не так грубо. А может только так и надо?

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