The crash of "Boeing": Russian, Ukrainian and American versions

705
Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777, which operated the Amsterdam-Kuala Lumpur flight, crashed last night in Ukraine, sixty kilometers from the border with Russia. According to the latest data, the 283 passenger (including 80 children) and 15 crew members were aboard the liner. All passengers died. Flight recorders found the DPR militia. The aforementioned militia, official Kiev and Moscow denied involvement in the fall of the liner. The US intelligence agencies near the airliner spotted on the radars a thermal trace of a ground-to-air missile. Let us single out the main versions of the disaster circulating in the media.



Some details about the victims. Among the passengers of the liner were citizens of different countries: the Netherlands, Australia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Great Britain, Germany, Belgium, the Philippines, Canada and others. Among them were 80 children.

Now - applications and versions.

Advisor to the Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine Anton Gerashchenko said that “Boeing” was shot down by the Buk air defense system. ITAR-TASS cites a statement from the presidential administration of Ukraine, in which Poroshenko admits that the plane was shot down from Russian territory. Poroshenko also claims that the Ukrainian army did not take action to defeat aerial targets in the area of ​​the incident.

A source in the Russian Ministry of Defense, ITAR-TASS notes, said that there were no flights of Russian combat aircraft in the areas adjacent to the Donetsk region on Thursday.

ITAR-TASS cites the statement of the authorities of the DPR. They deny involvement in the crash.

“The militia does not have such weapons that could bring down the plane at an altitude of 10 km. We have MANPADS that bring down a maximum at an altitude of 3-4 km, ”said the representative of the Prime Minister of the DPR, Sergei Kavtaradze.

"Vesti.Ekonomika", referring to “a number of sources”, indicates that aircraft at an altitude of more than 10 thousand meters can only be hit weapons Type C-200, C-300 or Beech. However, the possibility that the aircraft could attack from the air is not excluded. Vesti reminds of a similar crash with Siberia Airlines Tu-154, which was hit by a Ukrainian missile on 4 on October 2001 of the year: it attacked the board, confusing the liner with a training target. 66 passengers and 12 crew members died.

RIA News" also recalls the tragedy of the year 2001 with Tu-154.

As in the 2001 year, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation does not believe Ukrainian statements that Kiev did not shoot at air targets.

ITAR-TASS reports today the press service of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.

In the opinion of the Russian military, Kiev’s statements that yesterday’s air defense system or Ukraine’s aircraft did not fire at aerial targets raise serious doubts: “It’s impossible to make such an unequivocal conclusion in fierce fighting in this area in such a short time. Such responsible statements, which have serious legal consequences, require a thorough investigation. ” According to the Russian ministry, in the area of ​​the disaster there are units of the Ukrainian Armed Forces that have the Buk-M1 air defense system.

“Thus, in the region of the northwestern outskirts of Donetsk, the divisions of the 156-th anti-aircraft missile regiment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were deployed with twenty-seven launchers of the Beech M1 complex, the Russian Defense Ministry told ITAR-TASS. “These complexes, according to their tactical and technical characteristics, are capable of detecting air targets at distances up to 160 km and hitting them in the entire altitude range at a distance above 30 km.” The ministry officials added: “In addition, combat aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force, equipped with various types of missiles, are constantly in the skies over Donetsk region. This is an indisputable fact. ” The ministry further noted that the Boeing-777 was flying outside the range of the air defense of the Russian Federation, being in the airspace of Ukraine under the control of its air traffic management system.

As for the aforementioned military aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force, one Spanish controller said yesterday that two Ukrainian military aircraft were near the Boeing before his disappearance from the radar. This was reported by the channel "RT".

Ukrainian airplanes were spotted by Comrade Carlos just a few minutes before the crash of “Boeing” - not far from it. The dispatcher immediately wrote about this in his Twitter account. This Spanish dispatcher led the aforementioned Malaysia Airlines liner.

"Military aircraft flew near the 777 in three minutes before it disappeared from the radar, just three minutes," - says Carlos. And further: “When“ Boeing ”simply disappeared from the radar, the Kiev authorities informed us that it had crashed. How could they find out so quickly? ”

Test pilot Ruben Yesayan agrees with Carlos. In his opinion, which leads ITAR-TASS With reference to the Russia-1 channel, official Kiev has no reason to claim that the crashed Boeing-777 was shot down.

“So quickly find out where, what, who shot down and why, it’s impossible,” said the expert. “This suggests that they shot down themselves and realized that they shot down themselves, and now they are trying to quickly get out of this situation.”

This explains the fears of Mr. Poroshenko. He is afraid that the Russians will take the “black box” to Russia.

The text of the statement at night appeared on site of the Ukrainian president in 00: 45 on the eighteenth of July.

Addressing compatriots, Petro Poroshenko said: "Today the war has gone beyond the territory of Ukraine." And further - an explanation: “Today, terrorists killed almost 300 people with one shot. Among them are women, children, citizens of many countries of the world ... They shot down a peaceful passenger aircraft of the Malaysian Airlines, which flew from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur at an altitude of ten thousand one hundred meters. ”

Let me add on my own, but if the “terrorists” do not have complexes capable of shooting down planes at such a height, then what did they shoot him down with? According to such logic Poroshenko will soon “arm” the rebels with nuclear missiles aimed at Washington.

We quote the full paragraph:

“I want to inform you that one of the leaders of the militants in a conversation with his foreign Russian curator, Colonel of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation Vasily Geranin, boasted a downed airliner.
Other terrorist saboteurs also managed to boast the next trophy. ”


Further, Poroshenko reports that the Ukrainian government has created a state commission to investigate the causes of the disaster, and specialists from the International Civil Organization aviation, representatives of the Netherlands, Malaysia and the USA. The president also writes that he had telephone calls with Barack Obama and the prime ministers of Malaysia and the Netherlands.

The message to compatriots Poroshenko ends with a familiar remark:

"Glory to Ukraine!"


Meanwhile, the White House sent its investigators to Ukraine.

As transmits ITAR-TASS, US Vice President Joseph Biden believes that the Malaysian aircraft was deliberately shot down.

Biden said that the Ukrainian authorities accepted the US offer of assistance in investigating the circumstances of the disaster. According to him, American experts will arrive in Ukraine.

It is also reported that Petro Poroshenko in a telephone conversation with Barack Obama and Joseph Biden expressed condolences to the American people in connection with the death of US citizens as a result of the disaster.

The latest publications in the American press speak about the belligerent attitude of congressmen.

Newspaper "The Washington Times" notes that US lawmakers are concerned: in their opinion, an airplane incident could translate the Ukrainian conflict into a new dimension. There are already voices in the Senate demanding that the Obama administration take decisive measures against Russia.

Nor did “hawk” John McCain. He said that the liner crash will affect the situation and that the United States will "finally" begin to "deliver weapons to Ukraine."

American intelligence officers believe that a ground-to-air missile was launched at the Malaysian liner. He wrote about this “Wall Street Journal”, reports ITAR-TASS.

Where did the rocket come from? According to the American edition, "opinions on this matter are divided." No clarifications.

The Wall Street Journal was joined by CNN. She also reported that the Boeing was shot down by a ground-to-air missile. According to unnamed TV sources from the US administration, the launch of the rocket was noticed by a radar shortly before the crash. Some "officials" reported that the sensors recorded a significant heat release at the time of the alleged rocket airliner. To this, CNN adds that the United States is now analyzing the rocket’s trajectory.

In another material published in "The Washington Times", it offers a ready-made explanation of Russia's actions.

The president of Russia, according to the newspaper, is trying to blame for the disaster "opponents from the government of Ukraine." That is why he acts so swiftly, the newspaper notes, expressing a request for granting Russian investigators access to the airliner’s crash site.

The publication also reports that American intelligence has already excluded Ukraine from among those who are “guilty” in the crash.

Go to Russia.

Vladimir Putin believes that Ukraine is responsible for the crash of the aircraft. "Of course, the state over whose territory it happened is responsible for this terrible tragedy," Putin said. ITAR-TASS.

The Russian president said this at a meeting on economic issues, which he proposed to start with a minute of silence.

“This tragedy would not have happened if there was peace on this earth, and hostilities in the south-east of Ukraine would not be resumed,” Putin said.

“I ask the Russian government, through the existing capabilities of civilian agencies, to do everything to thoroughly investigate this event,” the president said. And he added: “We must do everything that depends on us so that the objective picture of the incident will become the property of our public, and the public of Ukraine, and the whole world.”

Presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov, talking with the correspondent of the British newspaper Guardian, called it stupid to suppose that Russia might be involved in the plane crash. Writes about this today RIA News".

Peskov also said that the Kremlin would not make further statements about the tragedy, because so far "no one knows" who is responsible for it.

Russian experts are confident that the Boeing was shot down by the Ukrainian military.

RIA News" cites the opinion of the chief editor of the magazine “National Defense” Igor Korotchenko.

"Considering the transfer to Eastern Ukraine of additional forces and means of the Ukrainian air defense and bringing them into increased combat readiness, it is obvious that as a result of checking the combat regimes of the Ukrainian Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, either due to the low qualification of personnel and combat calculations or an unintended launch by mistake of the operator, which led to the defeat of the Malaysian "Boeing", flying over the territory of Ukraine at an altitude of 10 thousand meters, "said Korotchenko yesterday.

The analyst of the international company IHS, Nick de Larrinaga, whose words are quoted, partly agrees with the Russian expert RIA News".

“... At the usual flight altitude, a passenger plane is unavailable for man-portable air defense systems that we could see in the hands of insurgents in eastern Ukraine. But it could be within the radius of the ground-to-air missile systems of medium (and longer) range, such as the Buk and C-300, or later versions of them. Both Russia and Ukraine are armed with these systems, ”said the expert.

Former Commander of Moscow Air Defense, Colonel-General Yuri Solovyov believes that the plane crash "certainly" looks like a provocation. His opinion leads "Moscow Komsomol".

A few minutes before the catastrophe, a representative of the Ukrainian authorities said on television that the militiamen had at their disposal an operational Buk air defense system. But earlier in Kiev they claimed that the DPR fighters did not have such weapons. At the same time, it became known that one of the divisions of the Buk complex was relocated to the combat area, over which Boeing then fell. Moreover, in the sky around the same time, the Ukrainian Air Force carried out combat missions.

To the question of the correspondent of “MK”, whether it is possible to consider a catastrophe a provocation, Solovyov answered: “Certainly. This is very reminiscent of a provocation. ”

But is it possible to blame Russia for such a provocation? Here is the expert's answer:

“The plane fell in 60 km from the border with Russia. From a height of 10 thousand meters, it could fly 100 km, but it could fly 60 km. That is, it turns out that everything happened from the border in 160-120 km. Only the C-200 complexes that we do not have in service, or the C-300PMU, which we sell abroad, shoot at such a range. Therefore, the aircraft could be shot down only by those who were in Ukraine. From the territory of Russia, a launch at such a distance would have been impossible ”/


But the version from eyewitnesses.

RIA News" writes that residents of the village of Grabovo, Shakhtyorsky District, Donetsk Region, near which Boeing fell, a few minutes before the fall saw a combat aircraft in the sky.

“The plane launched several rockets, they exploded somewhere in the sky. Immediately after that, there was a loud bang or explosion. After a few seconds, debris began to fall on us, ”said residents.

Now version of the militia.

"Reports from Strelkov Igor Ivanovich ..." Boeing "was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter. Received a recording of the ether with an eyewitness, which describes the details of the death of the Malaysian "Boeing". The main. 1. There was a 3 explosion. 2. 2 man with parachutes jumped out of the dying plane. 3. A Ukrainian aircraft was recorded which departed in the direction of Debaltseve. ” (Link).

Screenshot in Ukrainian ( link):

The crash of "Boeing": Russian, Ukrainian and American versions


Another screenshot, from 17 Jun ( link):



Here are some more details. Important.

LifeNews reports that shortly before the crash, the Malaysian "Boeing" deviated from the course by tens of kilometers. The fact is that three days ago the plane that was carrying out the same flight from Amsterdam flew over eastern Ukraine along a special air corridor.

On the seventeenth of July, the liner flew for the first time through combat areas. Experts interviewed by LifeNews argue that any such route change should be coordinated with the supervisor.

В LJ Boris Rozhin is a map of the course offset (see below).



The analyst believes that "we can say for sure" that the "Boeing" was brought into the territory of the DNR "consciously." According to the blogger, the course offset is "obviously intentional in nature." And then we read: “The machinations with the Boeing route are completely identical to the well-known provocation with the South Korean Boeing, which the Americans brought into the airspace of the USSR in 1983, after which it was shot down.”

What is the purpose of the aircraft shot down? “The task of the provocation is quite understandable, the blogger believes - to accuse the militia and the Russian Federation and to reverse the emerging trends in Donbas unsuccessfully”.

Observed and translated by Oleg Chuvakin
- especially for topwar.ru
Western media have already decided on those responsible for the plane crash in Ukraine:


Barack Obama's statement on the situation in Ukraine:
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    1. +44
      18 July 2014 10: 28
      There are many versions, but where is the truth? That is the question.
      1. +13
        18 July 2014 10: 36
        The version that the plane crashed as a result of a malfunction on board is not considered by anyone.
        1. carp
          -369
          18 July 2014 10: 44
          The main version is the monstrously low professional level of Russian (Novorossiysk) air defense personnel who are unable to distinguish between military Ukrainian and passenger aircraft. 300 people paid for it with life
          1. +83
            18 July 2014 10: 51
            Quote: carpag
            The main version is the monstrously low professional level of Russian (Novorossiysk) air defense personnel who are unable to distinguish between military Ukrainian and passenger aircraft. 300 people paid for it with life


            would you go from here boy. But you never know what
            1. romaskadarv
              -275
              18 July 2014 11: 00
              Are other points of view other than the "correct" ones not accepted? And what are the "correct" ones who decide?
              1. +79
                18 July 2014 11: 14
                And the right ones are sensible, that is, if you don’t know, then gather information, if necessary, ask those who know, listen to all opinions and draw your own conclusion, but when they say that a badger is a witch and you believe it - it’s your right, and of course degree of development.
                1. +9
                  18 July 2014 13: 44
                  You can not talk about what is absolutely unknown to the opponent.
                  Parashenko now has two ways _
                  1. +4
                    18 July 2014 15: 00
                    Speaking of relatives. Where is the crowd of heartbroken relatives of passengers? Where is the video?
                    1. +16
                      18 July 2014 17: 47
                      Eyewitnesses: Boeing passengers could have been dead before the crash

                      18.07.2014 14:51
                      Author: Larisa Hood http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1809353
                      There is one more piece of information that is simply impossible to believe. However, this was announced today with reference to local residents who help to sort out the consequences of the crash, a sensible person, a military man - the commander of the Donetsk militia Igor Strelkov. His commentary is published by the Russian Spring portal.
                      “According to the data of the people who collected the corpses, a significant part of the corpses was“ stale. ”People died up to several days ago. I can’t vouch for the complete reliability of this information - of course, the conclusion of forensic experts is necessary,” Strelkov said.
                      "In addition, according to him, a large amount of medicines, blood serum and other things were found on the plane, which is not typical for an ordinary liner. It seems that there was a medical special cargo," the DPR militia commander notes.
                      Strelkov also reports that he spoke with people who collected fragments of bodies immediately after the crash. They note that a strong cadaverous smell came from them.
                      "Such a smell could not have formed in any weather in half an hour, and the weather yesterday was cloudy, not too hot," the military leader notes. But the pilots, apparently, were alive until the disaster: "The entire cockpit (and the front part was well preserved) was literally flooded with their blood," said Strelkov.
                      Of course, forensic experts will certainly be able to clarify the exact (or at least more or less approximate) time of death of the passengers and crew of the Boeing. However, the fact that their passports, which were collected from the ground after the plane crash by local residents, turned out to be clean, as if they had just come from a printing house, cannot but surprise ...
                      1. +8
                        18 July 2014 18: 50
                        By the way, this was already in the USSR, then a supposedly peaceful Boeing of the South Koreans was shot down, but no corpses were found, but the filling of the Boeing was like a spy, a special operation of Amers and then it was successful, it seems that the Americans decided not to invent anything new but to use the proven method.
                        1. wells4437
                          +5
                          18 July 2014 19: 20
                          The plane was stuffed with things and various personal documents. But there are no remains of human bodies. We then made one irreparable mistake - at first we denied the downing of the airliner, and then began to apologize for the work of our aircraft on our airspace. And it was necessary to behave harshly, but with a threat.
                        2. 0
                          19 July 2014 22: 09
                          yeah, without reading your koment, also wrote about Boeing.
                      2. i'm from the past
                        +24
                        18 July 2014 19: 03
                        Yes, everything is very reminiscent of a fast Hollywood production - stale bodies, brand new passports and a "strange" deviation from the course - the most natural setup. One question - less than half the way - where is the REST OF FUEL ?????????? A couple of fields and the landings had to burn out and the whole district would stink with kerosene ... I DON'T SEE. "MUDDY" board of some kind, but I hope that competent people will figure it out. And then Ukraine, as it rakes off the cradle, something always happens. And the Americans let the Malaysians vparivayut bullshit, not the RF IC. hi
                        1. Vasil9
                          +3
                          19 July 2014 00: 45
                          So I think - is this not part of the diabolical plan - to get a ceasefire at all costs and withdraw its militaries from the environment?
                          While everyone will be barking and cursing under the "noise" to withdraw the troops.
                        2. 0
                          20 July 2014 23: 28
                          Where does this intermediate board board? Fuel production to Shakhtersk from Amsterdam how much? I agree with me - from the past: - I saw with my own eyes how the TU-134 was burning with full refueling at the strip. And then a full refueling of 110 tons! Well, let the rest of the tons, 60 - think it over, more tanks! There, the whole area would burn out in FIG, along with houses and vegetable gardens.
                      3. -1
                        18 July 2014 22: 40
                        1. Now it’s clear why the Russian side refused to check the recorders
                        2.Where are the real passengers now?
                      4. +2
                        18 July 2014 23: 38
                        Well, the Malaysian Boeing, which was lost some time ago, was never found, but now it’s updated itself, so to speak.
                      5. joum
                        +6
                        19 July 2014 00: 44
                        I also came across such infa:
                        When the journalists showed the passports in a spread, the passenger data were clearly visible. Users of foreign forums were not too lazy and conducted their own mini-investigation, during which it was discovered that the people whose passports were shown by journalists "really exist" - there are their profiles on "Facebook". But the profiles of these seemingly completely independent people were registered at the same time: on April 21, 2013. All these profiles are similar in that there is nothing on these pages except the photos uploaded on the day of registration. Also, these users have neither friends, nor any publications, nor marks about the pages they liked - absolutely nothing! Pages are blank

                        The persistent feeling that all this is written by Lost fans - the one-on-one plot is repeated, taking into account the first missing Malaysian Boeing.
                        1. 0
                          19 July 2014 22: 13
                          now it becomes clear why the journalists were not allowed to visit relatives at the airport on the first day, and were even forbidden to remove the corridor along which they should go. As the correspondent said, they were pushed aside by people with machine guns
                        2. gdv
                          gdv
                          +1
                          19 July 2014 23: 09
                          The question is of course interesting! Now, if you download a video about the alleged recognition of militias and look at the file’s date in the file’s properties and not only the placement on the resource, but also, if possible, the IPshnik of the computer from which the info was merged into the network, then in theory you can make a selection that merged from this IP address (if it static!) and with a certain desire, you can also look into the computer itself and take out everything that has boiled there, it seems to me it will be interesting to everyone!))) the truth is that we need the services of special specialists, technically I think it's real ... though? maybe I'm wrong.
                        3. 0
                          20 July 2014 23: 32
                          This is the thing people say. am soldier
                      6. 0
                        19 July 2014 22: 07
                        Well, it seems like the Western media say that they flew to the AIDS conference. Perhaps they want to explain the presence of serum and camouflage the truth at the same time. In this world of American lies and provocations, nothing surprises me. I still remember the Boeing 83 years old , here is also a muddy story ...
                      7. valedol
                        0
                        20 July 2014 13: 34
                        http://worldcrisis.ru/crisis/1578613
                    2. +3
                      19 July 2014 06: 27
                      I wonder if cell phones, even broken ones, will be found. Che, I doubt it.
                  2. kuzia rocker
                    0
                    18 July 2014 18: 16
                    a nightmare how can this be?
                2. +49
                  18 July 2014 14: 24
                  REPOST of July 16 ...
                  How I felt that they would be drawn to the forum "Fat Trolls" and "Svidomity" ...

                  -Yes, do not be offended by the sick ... I notice a strange peculiarity than x ... th things are going on in Ukraine, the more Svidomo Internet warriors appear, or even "Internet Heroes" in general. I want to warn all members of the forum, Further is worse! After the "Shooter" liquidates the Bandera grouping in the cauldrons, YOU WILL BE WONDERFUL FROM THE NUMBER OF FUCK in the comments to the video on YouTube and in the forums ... and the USA! Such seething g ... vn, which you will hardly ever see ... And get ready, because Russia will be to blame, as always))). Admins are also a hint to you about the quick expansion of "Svidomites" and "Trolls" to the Military Review. Be on the lookout wink !
                  1. +11
                    18 July 2014 15: 57
                    It smells even like ... Moreover, this also appears:

                    OSCE: Crimea ceded to Russia "by way of restitution"

                    Article 1 of the 1950 Council of Europe Convention: “Protection of the property of individuals and legal entities”. Neither the president of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko, nor his entourage, apparently had a clue about it. Meanwhile, Protocol No. 1 to the Convention clearly stipulates the right of members of the European Union to own only their property. From it follows the obligation to return illegal, including land ownership. Therefore, the process of Crimea joining Russia by the OSCE is recognized as restitution: the return to its rightful owner of its territory. The status of Crimea was adopted on a temporary basis on June 28, 1914 - the beginning of the First World War.

                    http://www.politonline.ru/ventilyator/16898.html
                    1. +7
                      18 July 2014 22: 08
                      Quote: tasey
                      OSCE: Crimea ceded to Russia "by way of restitution"

                      Then, in order of restitution, it is possible to take away almost all of Ukraine, with the exception of Austria-Hungary, which was under the jurisdiction, and at the same time a pretty piece of Poland, Finland, and indeed all the former Soviet republics. If you want to bring a scientific basis for something, then you can use any explanation or legal reason.
                      But for some reason, the desire and will of the people seems much more just.
                      1. 0
                        18 July 2014 23: 08
                        According to the restitution, we can return Alaska, as gold has never reached the addressee as payment.
                    2. dilyanna
                      +1
                      18 July 2014 23: 09
                      Eh, Lavrov would be sent a note hi
                  2. zanyks
                    +5
                    18 July 2014 17: 11
                    As soon as they are thrown by the United States, the number of Svidomo will decrease sharply. Most of them are professional trolls. And professionals do not work for the idea.

                    Only the completely insane zombies will remain. And there are not many of them.
                    1. +11
                      18 July 2014 18: 27
                      Unfortunately you are not quite right.
                      You will not believe it, but I personally know two people who are still, I repeat, they still say that the Russian army is fighting in the southeast, and no argument breaks their last case when there was a fake about the dead of our paratroopers who were buried in Moscow and photos attached at the same time their pancake was never embarrassed that this was a funeral of the militias and that the people in the photographs were clearly not military, there was no gleam in the eyes of the foam at the mouth, now I just try not to communicate with them all of a sudden
                      1. 0
                        18 July 2014 20: 31
                        Is it in Russia these guys, or in Svidomo?
                      2. 0
                        19 July 2014 09: 07
                        They must be treated with electricity.
                      3. 0
                        19 July 2014 09: 07
                        They must be treated with electricity.
                      4. 0
                        19 July 2014 22: 18
                        At classmates I met such a colonel from Kiev, but then he said somewhere that we must stand for a strong ... a prostitute, probably
                        1. 0
                          20 July 2014 23: 36
                          Well, in Kulbakino, Nikolaev region. , a native of the airfield in Novo - Fedorovka of the RK RF is in charge! The brain is also burned with hatred and love for "evergreen" and "epaulettes with titles."
                    2. 0
                      18 July 2014 18: 51
                      Live broadcast of the emergency meeting of the UN Security Council on Ukraine
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6NR0XzA598#t=2857
                    3. +1
                      18 July 2014 20: 30
                      that's exactly what there are always many more zombies than professional scribes who send zombies who work only for money - today they write what they are the most maydowns, yesterday they wrote something on a completely different topic - also for money, and tomorrow, when for maydauns it’s all over, they will write again on some new topic around - you want to eat 3-4 times a day. They will raise themselves and rally new zombies in Kyrgyzstan or Georgia, or Uzbekistan, or elsewhere.
                  3. +2
                    19 July 2014 02: 02
                    Quote: ispaniard
                    REPOST of July 16 ...
                    How I felt that they would be drawn to the forum "Fat Trolls" and "Svidomity" ...

                    -Yes, do not be offended by the sick ... I notice a strange peculiarity than x ... th things are going on in Ukraine, the more Svidomo Internet warriors appear, or even "Internet Heroes" in general. I want to warn all members of the forum, Further is worse! After the "Shooter" liquidates the Bandera grouping in the cauldrons, YOU WILL BE WONDERFUL FROM THE NUMBER OF FUCK in the comments to the video on YouTube and in the forums ... and the USA! Such seething g ... vn, which you will hardly ever see ... And get ready, because Russia will be to blame, as always))). Admins are also a hint to you about the quick expansion of "Svidomites" and "Trolls" to the Military Review. Be on the lookout wink !


                    The award is waiting for its heroes. laughing laughing laughing
                    1. +1
                      19 July 2014 14: 11
                      Quote: Dmitry Toderese
                      The award is waiting for its heroes.
                      Instead of the Maltese cross, the order should have 3 fan blades.
                    2. 0
                      19 July 2014 14: 47
                      It can be so.
                3. 0
                  19 July 2014 09: 33
                  As soon as Strelkov shows An 26, shot down precisely at this time in this place, you can talk about the Boeing and the Ukrainian fighter.
                  http://topwar.ru/page,1,2,54473-an-26-ukrainskih-vvs-sbit-bliz-toreza-opolchency
                  -zayavlyayut-io-sbitoy-sushke.html
                  Yesterday, according to Vesti 24, a representative of the DPR confirmed that AN was shot down. As soon as they show him to me, I am ready to believe.
                  But something is unlikely that at the same time and in one place TWO large aircraft fall
                  1. 0
                    19 July 2014 22: 26
                    According to the TTX An-26, its practical ceiling is 7 meters. Do you catch the difference?
              2. +38
                18 July 2014 11: 14
                Correct ones, where there are more facts, and not bare accusations, heard more than one hundred times. Moreover, from a party that does not shun frank lies.
                1. Natalia
                  +34
                  18 July 2014 11: 48
                  What is the purpose of the aircraft shot down? “The task of the provocation is quite understandable, the blogger believes - to accuse the militia and the Russian Federation and to reverse the emerging trends in Donbas unsuccessfully”.


                  If we are considering a version like this:
                  The plane was shot down on purpose.
                  Reason: military failures of the Ukrainian security forces in the Donbass.
                  Purpose: under the pretext of introducing international experts, stop hostilities during the investigation, thereby giving time to the deflectors of the Ukronatsguard, to achieve the withdrawal of a significant part of the forces from the encirclement.

                  If we are considering a version ....
                  The plane was shot down by accident.
                  Reason: illiteracy and incompetence of the Ukrainian military. Negligence.
                  Purpose: they wanted to destroy Russian military aircraft, which supposedly were supposed, not today tomorrow, to attack the positions of the Ukronatsguard.

                  In my opinion, these are the most tenacious versions ....
                  1. 0
                    18 July 2014 11: 53
                    Purpose: under the pretext of introducing international experts, stop hostilities during the investigation, thereby giving time to the deflectors of the Ukronatsguard, to achieve the withdrawal of a significant part of the forces from the encirclement.

                    Hard to believe. There were reports, the Ukrainian army lives in terrible conditions, there is no grub, no protective equipment, disorder and staggering. They just left.
                    Purpose: they wanted to destroy Russian military aircraft, which supposedly were supposed, not today tomorrow, to attack the positions of the Ukronatsguard.

                    Pretty weird target. Russian planes could not be there. Unless they think of an excuse.
                    1. +15
                      18 July 2014 12: 11
                      Addressing his compatriots, Petro Poroshenko said: “Today, the war has gone beyond the territory of Ukraine.” And further, an explanation: “Today, terrorists killed almost 300 people with one shot.

                      Everything is right! And what else to name the people who bomb peaceful houses, kill the children of old people! Only the parashka forgot to add that all these are his subordinates!
                    2. +5
                      18 July 2014 12: 27
                      well, puppeteermers have repeatedly announced an attack by Russia on poor Ukropia, and for this purpose, all working beeches pulled sweat from the west.
                    3. Krasnoarmeec
                      +7
                      18 July 2014 12: 27
                      Wedmak


                      McCain is already screaming at the top of his lungs about the supply of weapons to dill, that's the goal ... therefore, who benefits from it the most? That's right, but now "who will shout louder" will begin in the European Union, they say, during the hostilities, the resistance shot down dozens of planes and helicopters ... but at the same time he says that it is too early to draw conclusions, therefore they have already appointed the main culprit.
                      1. +6
                        18 July 2014 12: 31
                        McCain is already screaming loudly about arms supplies to dill, and that’s the goal ...

                        True, doubts take me, but will dill be able to use these weapons normally? They do not really own their own, but here is a super-duper American ...
                        1. +8
                          18 July 2014 12: 45
                          Quote: Wedmak
                          McCain is already screaming loudly about arms supplies to dill, and that’s the goal ...

                          True, doubts take me, but will dill be able to use these weapons normally? They do not really own their own, but here is a super-duper American ...
                          Novorossians will have to sit down for textbooks, but we need to master new technology
                        2. Krasnoarmeec
                          +5
                          18 July 2014 13: 20
                          True, doubts take me, but will dill be able to use these weapons normally? They do not really own their own, but here is a super-duper American ...



                          Your words, yes, yes, Ukrainian would be the warriors in the ears ... smile
                        3. 0
                          18 July 2014 15: 22
                          According to the video, is that psaki 2?
                        4. 0
                          19 July 2014 18: 03
                          Small correction - desert eagle - Israeli pistol manufactured by IMI
                        5. Krasnoarmeec
                          +4
                          18 July 2014 13: 32
                          and here's another)))
                        6. +4
                          18 July 2014 16: 23
                          That's what it means that there were no air conditioners nearby ...)))
                        7. +1
                          18 July 2014 22: 18
                          Didn't the Boeing have air conditioning?
                          In my opinion, on any plane they are full!

                          But, seriously, this case is the result of an accident. Judging by individual moments, this plane was shot down by an air-to-air missile. At least it is difficult to explain the number of holes by the "shrapnel" from the Buk missile. It's hard to say about the "stale" corpses, but today they give a picture from the crash site all day - blood, pieces of bodies, and fresh corpses are available. And nobody talks about corpse decomposition.
                        8. +2
                          19 July 2014 09: 40
                          I believe that if we consider the version of "shot down on purpose", then it is unlikely that the American special services would have shown humanism and collected 280 corpses on the plane, risking being exposed. They will begin to send someone else's liner along the route of death with living people, even if they are all Americans.
                        9. Ujin61
                          0
                          18 July 2014 19: 47
                          What kind of American weapon is superfood? For example?
                        10. +1
                          18 July 2014 22: 53
                          There is no point in using some high-precision weapons against the militias! There are no worthy targets for such a weapon! Over there in Serbia, the Americans tried to hit with cruise missiles - and this, in general, is not a super-duper weapon - against Serbian tanks - little sense, but even in the event of a hit, a cruise missile costs many times more than an old Yugoslav tank. At one time, when studying at a university, Vietnam was cited as an example for an air defense officer - one of our S-75 air defense systems cost about 1 million rubles, the American Phantom F-4 of various modifications - about 5 million dollars. If the complex shot down 1 Phantom, it was economically justified. And he shot down more than one plane.
                          And the ukroarmiya already has the most super-duper weapon - these are multiple launch rocket systems - and it is very actively used.
                          The truth is, no - but only militarily.
                      2. +12
                        18 July 2014 14: 07
                        Quote: Krasnoarmeec
                        Wedmak


                        McCain is already screaming at the top of his lungs about the supply of weapons to dill, that's the goal ... therefore, who benefits from it the most? That's right, but now "who will shout louder" will begin in the European Union, they say, during the hostilities, the resistance shot down dozens of planes and helicopters ... but at the same time he says that it is too early to draw conclusions, therefore they have already appointed the main culprit.

                        Little bit, it would be better if the Vietnamese did not save him. The air was cleaner. am
                        1. +12
                          18 July 2014 14: 58
                          At the expense of McCain, this is a big flaw in the Vietnamese comrades.
                        2. +2
                          18 July 2014 15: 25
                          Yeah, something like that comes out winked
                        3. +1
                          18 July 2014 18: 34
                          Yes, he would have been flunked by his own for the burnt nose, but the admiral’s folder smeared him off.
                        4. +3
                          19 July 2014 00: 50
                          In vain you say so!
                          McCain is the most valuable man of those rare individuals, the true antipodes of King Midas. Everything he touches instantly turns not into gold, but into a slightly different, lighter and less hard substance, which also differs from gold in color and smell!
                          Have more McCain Americans! So that they regularly and permanently send them both to Ukraine, and to Great Britain, and to other countries that are most important for Western Democracy.
                          The main thing is that we have had abortions for medical reasons indicated at the earliest possible dates!
                      3. +1
                        18 July 2014 18: 54
                        Old MaK is a harmless psychopath, and also pretty amuses the public, the Poles have been supplying weapons and people for a long time. It’s good that even the Balts poured out all our weapons, otherwise it would have already been in spite of the Russian Federation the supply began.
                      4. Ujin61
                        0
                        18 July 2014 19: 45
                        People are fighting and weapons only increase the loss rate. Abkhazia and Novorossia are an example of how weakly armed militias gradually seizing enemy arms become a real force capable of defeating their superior troops much better armed. Amer weapons will not change the situation. One plus, in this case, the supply of heavy armaments on our part, which is still not there.
                        1. 0
                          19 July 2014 11: 00
                          after the war 08.08.08. I was in Abkhazia, I saw the captured Amerian equipment, was seized from the Georgians and handed out free of charge to enterprises (one-time, you won’t find spare parts).
                          Well, and D.E.R.M.O.O.! is it really American! - that’s what surprised me ... as if an ax and a chisel were done ... and everything works badly ... but all the labels are in their places:
                    4. Natalia
                      +2
                      18 July 2014 12: 43
                      Quote: Wedmak
                      Pretty weird target.

                      Well, very strange, it’s better to shoot tanks from Buk ....
                      Quote: Wedmak
                      Russian planes could not be there.

                      that our planes are so bad that they can’t reach Ukraine?

                      PS
                      A massive transfer of troops closer to the border with Ukraine was organized, including combat air units. It was June 15-16, 2014. Ukrainian security officials suggested that it was to their liking, pa pulled the calculations of the S-300 and Buk in the area.
                      1. 0
                        18 July 2014 13: 12
                        that our planes are so bad that they can’t reach Ukraine?

                        This is not the case. And that, by the definition of our combat aircraft, cannot be in the airspace of Ukraine.
                        A massive transfer of troops closer to the border with Ukraine was organized, including combat air units.

                        And the fact that our turntables walk in herds there has long been reported.
                        1. Natalia
                          0
                          18 July 2014 14: 25
                          Quote: Wedmak
                          This is not the case. And that by definition Our combat aircraft cannot be in the airspace of Ukraine.

                          Well then tell me this very definition (as you say) according to which our planes can’t be there ...... it's interesting to listen. winked
                        2. +2
                          18 July 2014 23: 04
                          The two countries have the so-called. "national means of objective control" are Russia and the United States. These countries are well aware of how the plane was shot down. Putin called Obama an hour after the event and told him exactly about this.
                          With the participation of our air defense systems, aircraft, etc. - This immediately becomes known to the Americans - Do you think they would mumble for a day in this case something inarticulate?
                          Now there’s just a bargaining - and Obama is thinking how best to get out of the situation in which he leads himself, while continuing to support his obviously overstuffed fodder.
                      2. +6
                        18 July 2014 13: 44
                        Quote: Natalia
                        Quote: Wedmak
                        Russian planes could not be there.

                        that our planes are so bad that they can’t reach Ukraine?


                        It was a passenger scheduled flight. He flew over the territory of Ukraine and was led, respectively, by Ukrainian air traffic controllers. So the Ukrainian side, in principle, knew what it was overboard. Perhaps, by accident or intentionally, this information was not communicated to all interested parties. That is, it is either sloppiness or provocation if we consider the version of the guilt of the Ukrainian military.
                        1. +4
                          18 July 2014 13: 57
                          nerd.su

                          Information for reflection and analysis:

                          1. Aircraft crash site in the EU zone ATC Dnepropetrovsk (in GP and VP this is the area of ​​responsibility of this ATC center) - rn n.p. Grabovo, Donetsk region.

                          The drop point is located in the immediate vicinity of the Donetsk airfield area (now there are battles), but in height it is the Dnepropetrovsk ATC zone.

                          Information about fighters comes from spanish (!) dispatcher sitting in Borispol (Kiev).

                          What an awareness!

                          Of course, Ukraine is a member of Eurocontrol, but where could it come from in Kiev Spanish dispatcher?
                          Arrived on a business trip?

                          Anyone explain?

                          2. The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation stated that the point of impact of the aircraft was included in the affected area of ​​2 batteries of the S-200 air defense system and 3 batteries of the Buk-1m air defense missile system.
                        2. The comment was deleted.
                        3. +2
                          18 July 2014 16: 16
                          Quote: bot.su
                          It was a passenger scheduled flight. He flew over the territory of Ukraine and was led, respectively, by Ukrainian air traffic controllers.

                          I wonder if there are people among the Malaysians or the Dutch who can kill these dispatchers, as Kaloyev did. Remember the clash of Tu154 and Boig 757 over Germany?
                        4. +1
                          18 July 2014 20: 16
                          Among the Malaysians are sure to be found.
                      3. puma88ss
                        +2
                        18 July 2014 16: 53
                        Ukraine had previously closed its skies over the site of the punitive operation for civilian aircraft: http://www.ukrinform.ua/eng/news/ukraina_zakrila_nebo_nad_donbassom_1647084
                        Well, why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers send a plane there?
                        The second question - what is the use of our civilian aircraft to shoot down? This Ukrainians tu-154 shot down and the United States July 3, 1988 over the Persian Gulf, an Iranian plane shot down. Our only Korean ship, flown to where prohibited.
                        1. Repeat
                          -19
                          18 July 2014 16: 57
                          Read the article: http://slon.ru/world/chto_budet_posle_boinga-1129723.xhtml

                          And the fact that the Boeings should not fly in combat areas is not serious. Open flightradar and see for yourself how beautifully they fly right now over Afghanistan, and over the Pakistani tribal zone, and over Syria, mired in the civil war, and over Iraq with its Islamic caliphate of Iraq and the Levant, and over Israel, whose sky is now ruined by Hamas Kassamami. And nowhere is anyone shot down, because an altitude of more than 10 km is considered safe, and weapons of such power are being protected from illegal gangs with all their might.

                          It’s hard to say where the “Buki” came from in the Donbass militias. It may well be that Russia did not supply them with them, and they themselves were able to capture a few already in place because of the complete mediocrity and irresponsibility of the Ukrainian military. You never know about Ukraine scattered all sorts of Soviet and later weapons. But this no longer matters, because the rebels themselves appeared there with the direct support of Russia. So, now Russia is sponsoring a terrorist organization that launched one of the largest terrorist attacks in aviation history.

                          Not only that, as a result of this terrorist attack, not some Ethiopians or Pashtuns died, but the Europeans and Americans themselves: 154 Dutch, 27 Australians, 26 US citizens, as well as British, Belgians, Germans, Canadians, Malaysians, Indonesians and etc. This means that the conflict in Ukraine for Westerners ceases to be a distant incomprehensible war, where it is not known who is fighting, it is unknown to whom in one of these many and always problematic former USSR republics. Now this is a war in which one of the parties killed dozens of Europeans and Americans, and Western governments will be forced to take decisive action.
                        2. +4
                          18 July 2014 18: 22
                          Quote: Replicant
                          So, now Russia is sponsoring a terrorist organization that launched one of the largest terrorist attacks in aviation history.

                          And why are you so peremptory? Yes, we constantly sponsor Ukraine, but this is a necessary measure until the South Stream has been introduced. So they use free sponsorship gas. We can’t shut off the tap yet, you’ll be screaming there in Europe that you are cold.
                        3. +2
                          18 July 2014 18: 57
                          Stop smoking this nonsense so there’s no brain left, LOOKING FOR ALWAYS WHO IS FAVORABLE, militias like the Russian Federation need this the least, unlike Poroshenko and the USA,
                        4. passing
                          +4
                          18 July 2014 19: 22
                          I agree, it seems to me that another grand provocation took place from the supply of hawks in the White House with the aim of breaking public opinion in Western Europe. The next step will be hysteria in leading European media, and then crowds of angry Europeans will take to the streets demanding their governments break all relations with Russian barbarians ... No one will consider objective evidence, there have already been analogies in the past, remember at least the incident with the South Korean Boeing during the Soviet era or the Polish Tushka We were and have remained the Empire of Evil for them, and now the Great Uncles simply refreshed the memory of the western inhabitants that to the east of Poland (or Vilnius Ukraine, hell knows them ..) there are wild barbarians who cannot be negotiated humanly and who only understand the language military force and economic sanctions am
                        5. +2
                          18 July 2014 19: 25
                          "This means that the conflict in Ukraine for a Western person ceases to be a distant incomprehensible war."
                          Well, that’s the whole thing! Now, ordinary citizens of Western European countries in horror will begin to demand from their defenders from overseas to urgently protect them! Q.E.D!
                        6. 0
                          18 July 2014 21: 15
                          Quote: Replicant
                          It’s hard to say where the “Buki” came from in the Donbass militias. It may well be that Russia did not supply them with them, and they themselves were able to capture a few already in place because of the complete mediocrity and irresponsibility of the Ukrainian military.

                          Quote: Replicant
                          Not only that, as a result of this terrorist attack, not some Ethiopians or Pashtuns died, but the Europeans and Americans themselves: 154 Dutch, 27 Australians, 26 US citizens, as well as British, Belgians, Germans, Canadians, Malaysians, Indonesians and etc

                          "Buk" is not a children's slingshot, but a complex anti-aircraft system, you can't just fire it off.
                          You yourself personally issued the tickets for the departure, probably since such awareness of the belonging of the dead to various states. And about the allegedly twenty-six US citizens, not one media has ever mentioned it.
                    5. Vitalka
                      +4
                      18 July 2014 13: 28
                      Just yesterday, the Russian defense industry announced ukrov claims about the downing of Ukrainians. SU-25 grew. SU-29 delirium. But the lads of the ruin air defense sacredly believe their leaders. So they could decide, yesterday there was a Russian fighter, but today it is again leaving for Russia. Atu slam him.
                    6. +3
                      18 July 2014 15: 48
                      So the coloring on the plane is almost Russian. Ukrainians live in some kind of world in which Russian planes fly over them. For a minute we went into the real world, and then the plane flies with Russian coloring ....
                    7. Corsican
                      +1
                      18 July 2014 18: 40
                      [quote] Purpose: they wanted to destroy Russian military aircraft, which supposedly were supposed, not today tomorrow, to attack the positions of the Ukronatsguard. [/ quote]
                      Pretty weird target. Russian planes could not be there. Unless they think of a stomp. [/ Quote]

                      Watch Ukrainian TV. They have been talking for 3 months that they are fighting with Russia. If the same information is being sold to Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners, I would not be surprised that they took Boeing seriously for a military aircraft. My grandmother lives in western Ukraine, and according to her, conversations like: "I saw a helicopter today, it must be Russian special forces." They are considered not delirium of a madman, but a patriotic norm!
                  2. +6
                    18 July 2014 12: 17
                    The plane was shot down on purpose.
                    Reason: military failures of the Ukrainian security forces in the Donbass.
                    Purpose: under the pretext of introducing international experts, stop hostilities during the investigation, thereby giving time to the deflectors of the Ukronatsguard, to achieve the withdrawal of a significant part of the forces from the encirclement.
                    Natalia, good day!
                    I completely agree, especially with version No.1. She is the simplest, and at the same time, the most relevant. Everything else is far-fetched.
                    Even Occam said: "One should not multiply existence unnecessarily."
                  3. Repeat
                    -29
                    18 July 2014 12: 50
                    "these are the most tenacious versions"
                    Tenacious or comfortable? And if we assume the thought that the militias were shot down or who is there serving the complex on their territory? Then someone rightly noticed that now, in an era when everyone is running around with phones equipped with cameras, it is difficult to hide anything. Yesterday there were footage of the Buk being transported through the territory occupied by the militia. And Strelkov did not report on time about the downing of the plane. So anything is possible. But, most likely, Russia will be blamed, and Putin, in the worst case, will switch the arrows to Strelkov (it turns out symbolically). And then the DNI will be cleaned out in a week.
                    1. Natalia
                      +11
                      18 July 2014 13: 04
                      Quote: Replicant
                      Chera there were shots of how the Buk was transported through the territory occupied by the militia. And Strelkov did not report on time about the downing of the plane.

                      There is no Bukov militia, the Ukrainian side has already confirmed this information. The beeches that went to the militia were deliberately disabled, and Ukrainian security officials confirm this.
                      1. Repeat
                        -6
                        18 July 2014 13: 13
                        You are not reading carefully. The Ukrainian side has confirmed that the militias do not have "Buk" -s captured from the air defense're coming out. That is, to paraphrase: - They did not capture the Buk from us, read "The Buk was brought from Russia." There were statements by Kurginyan that soon you will have a workable Buk
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxVZvh9YScU&feature=youtu.be

                        Strelkava’s statement that they allegedly shot down AN. Many reasons to hang all the dogs in the DNI.
                        1. Krasnoarmeec
                          +4
                          18 July 2014 13: 41
                          Quote: Replicant
                          You are not reading carefully. The Ukrainian side has confirmed that the militias do not have "Buk" -s captured from the air defense're coming out. That is, to paraphrase: - They did not capture the Buk from us, read "The Buk was brought from Russia." There were statements by Kurginyan that soon you will have a workable Buk
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxVZvh9YScU&feature=youtu.be

                          Strelkava’s statement that they allegedly shot down AN. Many reasons to hang all the dogs in the DNI.


                          You are not correct, and you are reading in the wrong place, nobody has been listening to Ukraine for 7 months, and even more so listening to their opinion, "Uncle Sam" has been reporting for them for a long time. Still, it would be interesting to know what kind of "30 silversmiths" sold the Country ...
                        2. Repeat
                          -3
                          18 July 2014 14: 09
                          Hmm ... if they ask me an unpleasant question, I will shut my ears and I will call the questioner somehow picky. But I'm quoting Ross. Media and politicians. So what, apart from media're coming out, and Ross media not to believe? For example, what they say "Vesti": http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1741703

                          “Donetsk militias have seized the military unit of the A-1402 air defense. The air defense point is one of the missile forces units and is equipped with Buk self-propelled anti-aircraft missile systems. for the second, many hours of fighting were fought, reports RIA Novosti "

                          Ukro media refute:
                          "The Press and Information Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine informs that on June 29, by the decision of the Commander of the Air Force of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the military personnel and equipment of the anti-aircraft missile regiment in Donetsk were promptly redeployed to a certain place. On the territory of the military unit of the Directorate, only outdated and unusable automobile equipment remained. which the military put out of action even more. Over time, the terrorists entered the territory of the unit, "the Ministry of Defense said.

                          There is a record of Strelkov's report about the allegedly shot down AN - also not to believe Strelkov? Or records from Torez, which only the lazy did not post about how the Buk was rolling there? Following this logic, you can score on all events until the very final series, but only this will not work.
                        3. Natalia
                          +4
                          18 July 2014 16: 06
                          Quote: Replicant
                          read "The beech was brought from Russia."

                          If this is true, I would be very happy, I said it was high time to help the militias. How much can you? ....... how much can you endure this Bendery. winked

                          But dear, unfortunately this is not true.
                          Russia - A noble girl, you see, loves everything to be honest, fair. Such is she by nature.

                          So Buki from Russia does not stand up to even the smallest criticism. winked
                        4. Repeat
                          -14
                          18 July 2014 16: 43
                          Well, here is the first embarrassment for a noble girl ...
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YgdqdklrqDA

                          And it will be presented to the whole world. And then they will remember about tanks and about "Grady" and the rest of the zoo. In general, in the near future vazilin in the Kremlin may become a deficit.
                        5. Natalia
                          +10
                          18 July 2014 16: 57
                          Quote: Replicant
                          Well, here is the first embarrassment for a noble girl ...
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YgdqdklrqDA

                          I promise to study your version in the most thorough way, and in the near future I’ll say, is it true or linden ...

                          You see, now there are so many unbelievable things just about simply stories ...... then Nalivaychenko caught spotters, then a Ukrainian pilot went to the wing of a plane with a bucket of water at a speed of 600 km / h and put out the engine, then found mountains in the Rostov Region .. ... therefore, he won’t rush, let’s see who and what to cook winked
                        6. Repeat
                          0
                          18 July 2014 17: 16
                          Entirely and fully support, you need to cool down a bit and look around. There is too much hysteria around, and the situation is very difficult. love
                        7. Natalia
                          +4
                          18 July 2014 17: 33
                          Quote: Replicant
                          Entirely and fully support, you need to cool down a bit and look around. There is too much hysteria around, and the situation is very difficult.

                          winked like that, straight and melted .....
                        8. +2
                          18 July 2014 17: 03
                          Quote: Replicant
                          Well, here is the first embarrassment for a noble girl ...

                          Not funny, and if you think that the only one posted this document is deeply mistaken.
                          Quote: Replicant
                          And it will be presented to the whole world.

                          But who would doubt it, just think about the simple things, if you BEGIN, then only from Ukraine, in the history books, a couple of lines will remain _ They were like that, the most intelligent people thought, but it turned out _
                        9. Repeat
                          -8
                          18 July 2014 17: 22
                          You can puff out your cheeks as much as you like, but you cannot argue against the consolidated opinion of Europe and the United States. And I am not saying that this particular video will become a "concrete argument". There is also such an opinion: "Everything is beautiful, the only pity is that the Boeing from the S300 complex was struck, and the Buki and MANPADS from the Cossack post (launches) so, to raise morale. The Favorite air defense system is on the cover of Millerovo."

                          Versions, including the most delusional mass walks. We need to wait for the development of the situation.
                        10. +6
                          18 July 2014 17: 42
                          Quote: Replicant
                          And I am not saying that this particular video will become a "concrete argument".

                          Do you actually read the forum?
                          First, the Boeing was hit at least somewhere in the 100 ... 120 km to the border, it turns out unambiguously air defense systems in the territory of Ukraine (namely, even the S-300)
                          The second _One of the members of the forum laid out the dating when exactly these reinforced concrete arguments were created / laid out.
                          Yes, only people can communicate like that terrorists in low-budget videos of loser screenwriters ...
                          It was in
                          - Where's the log?
                          - He $ knows him, they say, he scratches a macaque on a satellite.
                          Translation:
                          - Where is the captain Derevyanko?
                          - I don’t know, but they say that it works through a closed communication channel and monitors American tests of the prototype of the Mk-48 torpedo
                          - Serge, check. Dima said that the canadian in your pelvis is rinsing the hole.
                          Translation:
                          - Sergey, Dmitry reported that in your sector the Canadian anti-submarine helicopter is conducting acoustic sounding.
                          - South-west of your fifth, flat-footed in porridge shreds, the screen in the snow.
                          Translation:
                          - (Southwest of your fifth?) A military transport plane drops light acoustic buoys in the area of ​​the possible location of the K-class submarine, there are a lot of small objects on the radar screen.
                          - The main bourgeois is sitting under the weather, is silent.
                          Translation:
                          - An American aircraft carrier disguises itself in a stormy area, observing radio silence.
                          - The stargazer sees the bubble, already with snot.
                          Translation:
                          - The optical observation station reports that an American tanker plane has released a fuel hose.
                          - We have here the narrow-eyed fool turned on, they say, sorry, lost his course, the motor broke down, and he masturbates. His dry couple went around, their Birch yelled.
                          - Drive him to #yy, I don’t want to receive 3,14zdy for this jaundice. If necessary, let the border guards wrap him in a fart, and draw a story for our special police officer.
                          Translation:
                          - During the fleet exercises, the South Korean ship came close to the area of ​​operations, citing damage. When flying around a pair of Su-15, the Birch warning radar worked.
                          - Tram-tararam ..., when you try to leave the area, deprive the ship of course and tow.
                          ...
                          32-oh - I order to immediately destroy the enemy tank firing at our positions -
                          32nd - ё @ not at all $ uy!
                          Taken here:
                          http://pricolisty.ru/blog/43105676505/%C2%ABzhivoy%C2%BB-efi...
                        11. -6
                          18 July 2014 19: 58
                          Hey, a connoisseur of army rules ... in battle, if you think, shoot do not shoot, etc. YOU WILL BE A CORK .. well you are a deer finished, a sofa Nuba
                        12. +1
                          19 July 2014 12: 20
                          Quote: Rorabek
                          Hey, a connoisseur of army rules ... in battle, if you think, shoot do not shoot, etc. YOU WILL BE A CORK .. well you are a deer finished, a sofa Nuba

                          Something significant, and _
                          I’ll kill everyone, I’ll stay alone.
                        13. +1
                          18 July 2014 21: 40
                          Quote: Replicant
                          but there is no arguing against the consolidated opinion of Europe and the USA.

                          Why, let alone so far! laughing
                        14. +3
                          18 July 2014 18: 15
                          Quote: Replicant
                          Well, here is the first embarrassment for a noble girl ...
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YgdqdklrqDA

                          And it will be presented to the whole world. And then they will remember about tanks and about "Grady" and the rest of the zoo. In general, in the near future vazilin in the Kremlin may become a deficit.
                          I think this is an upscale cooking. And that's why:
                          Talking on a cell phone (they are carefully given under the "avatars") about such things - you will excuse me, but you need to be an outspoken debil. Even Merkel already knows that all cell phone calls are being tapped (this was announced by the pendos and did not hide it shortly after September 11, 2001).
                          And these officers openly talk about the relocation of valuable weapons, their movements (the names of the settlements sound). This is not a couple of machine guns to transfer.

                          I somehow don’t believe in such gouging, especially since the Ukrainian operator (although no difference).
                        15. +1
                          18 July 2014 21: 38
                          Quote: Replicant
                          in the near future, vasilin in the Kremlin may become a deficit.

                          Rude "dear"! With such terms on the censor! They love it!
                        16. badger1974
                          -1
                          18 July 2014 20: 00
                          there is a pilot from the downed An-26, so singing rooster netreba. and you fools were brainless soaked by Boeing, like the Jews in 2001, it’s a fact, and you can’t refer to something inarticulate, intelligible, you got into a slurry called stool, now Obama and Europeans will think and guess how their people are. .t
                        17. 0
                          18 July 2014 21: 37
                          Quote: Replicant
                          You are not reading carefully. The Ukrainian side has confirmed that the militias do not have "Buk" -s captured from the air defense're coming out.

                          They can say anything, but they are. And there is video and a photo from the captured part of the air defense.
                        18. 0
                          19 July 2014 11: 16
                          So I grabbed the Buk, drove the Iago to the position, loaded, that means, aimed this one ... and pressed the trigger ...

                          I, of course, am not a military specialist - I am outdated, but in my opinion, in order to shoot from such an air defense complex, you need to study for six months or a year, and not just one crew! and the crew must still be well-coordinated ... here, after all, you can't burn out of a Kalash without practice ... you need to land more than one store, or else they shot down from the "Buk" ...
                      2. +1
                        18 July 2014 16: 19
                        Quote: Natalia
                        Yes, and Strelkov did not report on time about the downing of the plane.

                        Militias announced the downing of An26. In fact, they did not shoot down.
                        1. badger1974
                          +1
                          18 July 2014 20: 09
                          The 26th echelon of 10 km is not subject to technical operation prohibits, the materiel you have uncle a damn
                    2. +3
                      18 July 2014 13: 13
                      Talk about the air defense forces of the DNI?
                      DNR's "Arrow 2" ("Frog") cannot shoot down a Boeing plane at such an altitude! While this is the most powerful air defense of the DPR army! It is enough to shoot down attacking attack aircraft at low altitude. The ATO troops have entire batteries of "Bukov", which shoot down high-flying aircraft

                      But how is it that the militias also captured some Buks? Right. The complexes themselves were indeed seized in warehouses. BUT. They were faulty this time. But even if they had time to be repaired, it is still impossible to track the target and launch a rocket at it - another special vehicle is needed! And the militias don't have it! Therefore, they cannot shoot from "Buks" at all. There is no command post for them, so to speak. The militia has only 9A310 or 9A39, and in order to track the target you need 9C18 and a command post to launch 9C470, without all this it's just a pile of pretentious iron. The militia from the actually operating combat air defense has nothing cooler "Frog (Mobile Arrow 2). So the DPR had nothing to shoot down that plane.


                      From here: https://plus.google.com/105416179022945055139/posts/Q7NRtmFTyzC
                      1. +7
                        18 July 2014 13: 50
                        Quote: svoboda1970
                        The complexes themselves were really captured in warehouses. BUT. They were faulty, this time ...

                        All the talk that the militia has no UKRAINIAN Buki is a direct hint that the Buki is RUSSIAN!
                        Our Ministry of Defense has now issued data that the Ukrainian Buki deployed were on alert, ours recorded the operation of their radar.
                        But no one in the West wants to hear about it!
                        Yusovtsy have already declared Ukraine beyond suspicion!
                        1. Repeat
                          +1
                          18 July 2014 14: 12
                          That's what I mean. Everyone is smoothly led to this version - the Buks are Russian, the Crews too, the target designation also came from the Russian air defense - voila! The country is a terrorist.
                        2. +2
                          18 July 2014 16: 22
                          Quote: Replicant
                          Everyone is smoothly led to this version - the Buks are Russian, the Crews too, the target designation also came from the Russian air defense - voila!

                          You can let you down as much as you like. Is there evidence of targeting? No, it cannot be. Crews? Prove, catch one. The case is rotten, like a "hangman" in a cop.
                        3. +5
                          18 July 2014 16: 40
                          Quote: Uncle
                          Prove, catch one.

                          Are you one of the relict tribe of people who believe in the primacy of the Law?
                          Yusovtsy say so far that there is not enough data to calculate the trajectory and, of course, determine the launch area _
                          In a word
                        4. badger1974
                          +4
                          18 July 2014 20: 15
                          everything is not so simple for degenerates, the presence of a Buk launcher provides for three main things (hammering it into a replicos for itself, the first, the launcher itself, the second is the detection center, the third is the control center, the fourth is the center for the availability of the , and now apply all this to the militias, well, if not a brake, then eyes like Wii will open
                        5. +3
                          18 July 2014 15: 37
                          As I understand it, all dogs will hang on RUSSIA AND MALITION
                    3. +7
                      18 July 2014 15: 56
                      Quote: Replicant
                      Yesterday there were footage of the Buk being transported through the territory occupied by the militia.

                      Shots appeared ...
                      Ahti! Now everything is clear, everything is clear !!! Yes
                      But the nursery to be fair, then not a damn thing is clear.
                      What kind of territory is there in the video? True, you immediately recognized this area. I somehow didn’t admit. Surely she is occupied by militias? And who exactly is the Buk lucky? Does the video give an exact answer?
                      But the history of the use of missile weapons by the Ukrovskys abounds in tragicomedy.
                      Here are the most striking examples.
                      2001 - Tu-154 was shot down over the Black Sea. Compensation was paid to relatives, but Ukrainians do not admit guilt, they say there is little evidence that it was the Ukrainian missile that shot down laughing
                      2000 - Point-U flew into a house in Brovary.
                      They did not recognize the same thing, they said that this could not be, because it could never be. Yes
                      After shooting at the training grounds they really stopped - it’s more expensive.
                      Well, the year 2014 has come. It is unlikely that this is some kind of provocation conceived by Obama and his relatives.
                      Ukrogenerali, showing zeal, deployed a number of air defense units to supposedly repel Putin's raids on law enforcement officers, homosexuals and simply deceived people. Yes, they also instructed the stupid anti-aircraft gunners to take combat duty ... So they played it out - a mistake came out. It is unlikely that the banderlogs will admit this, they will lash to the end.

                      There is someone to take an example from - Kuchmarik bukhtel in 2001: they say, everything happens, what can you do, everyone has nothing to spread rot for themselves ...
                      In order to prove the guilt here it is necessary to take into custody the air defense units, interrogate the people on the spot, and conduct many expert examinations. This is currently not possible.
                    4. puma88ss
                      +2
                      18 July 2014 16: 57
                      Somehow very suspiciously, the Ukrainian dispatchers moved the corridor for this flight to the territory of the ATO for several days. Poorly to explain !?
                      1. kuzia rocker
                        +2
                        18 July 2014 18: 22
                        and me dog pasusala_ yesterday! - rabid probably? no normal, I would be furious to pull the tail)))
                  4. +4
                    18 July 2014 13: 29
                    Quote: Natalia
                    The plane was shot down on purpose.

                    Good day, Natalia hi
                    This is probably the most real version, albeit a dumb one. Probably, they wanted the liner to fly to Russia to blame Russia, but shot down a minute later - they did not calculate. The fact of deviation from the earlier course speaks in favor. As well as the presence of the junta in those parts of Buki - if the militia has the only attack aircraft that can be shot down by MANPADS, and that only recently appeared, it’s not clear why they sent air defense systems there.
                    The version is stupid because the boxes and satellites will show the whole truth, it is ridiculous to hope to substitute Russia.
                    On the other hand, you can fabricate anything you want and very simply, besides nobody just listens to Russia
                    Quote: Natalia
                    The plane was shot down by accident.

                    Possible, but unlikely. Russia would not let the "student" pilots go there, and I would not argue that they would have been shot down, in the junta, after all, not all du.raki do not understand this. There was a version on TV that they were waiting for a BB P plane from Brazil - it's also funny, yeah, it would fly over Kiev :)
                  5. +4
                    18 July 2014 16: 06
                    Quote: Natalia

                    The plane was shot down on purpose.
                    Reason: military failures of the Ukrainian security forces in the Donbass.
                    Purpose: under the pretext of introducing international experts, stop hostilities during the investigation, thereby giving time to the deflectors of the Ukronatsguard, to achieve the withdrawal of a significant part of the forces from the encirclement.


                    The goal is to attribute to Russia this monstrous provocation, thereby pushing the EU to introduce a 3 package of sanctions, drive an even bigger wedge between Russia and the EU, and make Russia an aggressor in front of the entire world community. Further on points 1; 2; 3 .... to bring Russia to world isolation - read Maniac Obama.

                    Quote: Natalia
                    The plane was shot down by accident.
                    Reason: illiteracy and incompetence of the Ukrainian military. Negligence.
                    Purpose: they wanted to destroy Russian military aircraft, which supposedly were supposed, not today tomorrow, to attack the positions of the Ukronatsguard.


                    The plane accidentally went the route through the ATO zone - the planes themselves do not choose either height or routes, they are led by a dispatcher.
                    Accidentally on the eve of the installation of MANPADS "Buk" were thrown into the area of ​​the disaster - by accident.
                    By chance, the calculations of Ukrainian air defense took him for a stranger - air defense, in the anti-terrorist operation zone, were obliged to be warned by civilian air traffic controllers about the passage of civilian aircraft in the air defense control zone.
                    By chance, due to incompetence, the missile launch team passed - well, yes, the Ukrainians already passed this in 2001. And didn’t they grow wiser?
                    The footage from the crash site of the Boeing - absolutely clean, completely virgin passports of passengers packed in a package - by accident.
                    Something a lot of accidents in one place, doesn't it seem?
                  6. The comment was deleted.
                  7. +1
                    18 July 2014 16: 58
                    Quote: Natalia
                    If we are considering a version like this:
                    The plane was shot down on purpose.
                    Reason: military failures of the Ukrainian security forces in the Donbass.
                    Purpose: under the pretext of introducing international experts, stop hostilities during the investigation, thereby giving time to the deflectors of the Ukronatsguard, to achieve the withdrawal of a significant part of the forces from the encirclement.

                    If we are considering a version ....
                    The plane was shot down by accident.
                    Reason: illiteracy and incompetence of the Ukrainian military. Negligence.
                    Purpose: they wanted to destroy Russian military aircraft, which supposedly were supposed, not today tomorrow, to attack the positions of the Ukronatsguard.

                    In my opinion, these are the most tenacious versions ....
                    According to these http://warfiles.ru/show-64215-amerikancy-v-agonii-delaetsya-stavka-na-likvidaciy
                    u-putina.html data has one more - "missed" in time. They were targeting board No. 1 of the Russian Federation.
                    And this is serious - this is a real war. And it was not dill that attempted - these only pressed a button - pendocs attempted.
                    1. +2
                      18 July 2014 17: 18
                      And I will add - if this is so - that means pendosy in a terrible panic and know for themselves something that we do not know. And they have one task - no matter what, crush Russia and show everyone what it will go against the will of the United States.
                  8. +1
                    18 July 2014 18: 30
                    goal to introduce NATO troops no more no less
                    an accompanying goal that will be realized today tomorrow will be to extend through Congress a bill on arms supplies to Dill.
                  9. +1
                    18 July 2014 18: 52
                    Dig deeper, Poroshenko's goal has already been announced, this is the introduction of "peacekeepers" to the southeast, and he stressed that there should be no Russian peacekeepers.
                  10. 0
                    19 July 2014 02: 08
                    Quote: Natalia
                    What is the purpose of the aircraft shot down? “The task of the provocation is quite understandable, the blogger believes - to accuse the militia and the Russian Federation and to reverse the emerging trends in Donbas unsuccessfully”.


                    If we are considering a version like this:
                    The plane was shot down on purpose.
                    Reason: military failures of the Ukrainian security forces in the Donbass.
                    Purpose: under the pretext of introducing international experts, stop hostilities during the investigation, thereby giving time to the deflectors of the Ukronatsguard, to achieve the withdrawal of a significant part of the forces from the encirclement.

                    If we are considering a version ....
                    The plane was shot down by accident.
                    Reason: illiteracy and incompetence of the Ukrainian military. Negligence.
                    Purpose: they wanted to destroy Russian military aircraft, which supposedly were supposed, not today tomorrow, to attack the positions of the Ukronatsguard.

                    In my opinion, these are the most tenacious versions ....


                    A Ukrainian military man (he did not remember his full name) from those serving in the air defense of Ukraine said that the air defense of Ukraine is a terrible old thing "missiles are flying in the wrong place" - this is a quote. Even then, in 2001, during the unsuccessful tragic exercises, all this clearly bore the character of a technical malfunction of the air defense.
                  11. +2
                    19 July 2014 10: 44
                    as a rule, in modern operations of special services several goals are pursued at once, sometimes arcade: one goal is achieved or one task is solved - another goes right away; or - one did not work out - it turned out worse, but another; or a number of tasks are being solved in parallel ...
                    It’s difficult to calculate all this, but it’s possible to reduce the opponent’s efforts to a minimum payoff: how do you play, how! ... - I play chess ... - and I play Chopin waltz! ... - and he plays billiards. ..
                    a possible goal is to bring in NATO troops; in parallel - to push through the sanctions! by all! who now refuses to introduce them; - in parallel - to withdraw the ukrovoysk who are in a difficult position from under the blow, to regroup; in parallel - to play with "public opinion" (does it, in general, exist in nature?) - well, and further assumptions, maybe speculation ...
                    but it worked extremely clumsy, something doesn't look like the CIA - is it really "well, stupid ..." and so much?
                  12. 0
                    19 July 2014 22: 31
                    Well, it is possible to apply to NATO for the introduction of "peacekeepers". Parashenko is already asking for "point" weapons. Probably together with the US satellite group. Here he is a crest and a crest in Africa. They would strip Merika to her underpants. They fools did not know who they had contacted. We should have studied our anecdotes
                  13. segmentata
                    0
                    20 July 2014 18: 44
                    Well, of course, I didn’t sit at the wheel, I didn’t press any buttons, but I work in the Almaz-Antey air defense system, and I am familiar with the power of air defense systems. So, the diocese of the anti-aircraft missile system is a cover for small units directly on the battlefield, and its ceiling is 2-2,5 km. There were cases of hitting targets at altitudes up to 4 km, but this is in thin air in mountainous conditions and the favorable position of the planets))) And these cases are rare. And this is true for any MANPADS, absolutely any. The beech can really work autonomously, but for old modifications 11 km in height is a value close to the limiting one (I mean the real state of affairs, and not stated in the technical specifications), plus the work is not part of the complex ... Plus lack of training and not the coherence of the crew, the absence of external target designation from more powerful stationary radars (it is not necessary, but desirable) - all this reduces the likelihood of a Boeing being hit by militias to almost zero. And the Ukrainian army, which is still regular, and has officers from the Soviet school, even in its current state, is such a simple aerodynamic target like a Boeing, moreover, as someone correctly wrote, not hiding, but screaming about itself at the top of its lungs - quite, quite.
                    1. 0
                      20 July 2014 18: 48
                      Quote: Segmentata
                      . Plus the lack of training and the coherence of the crew,

                      We do not forget about 08.08.08, our planes were shot down by Bandera people who helped Mishiko, Sashko was not the only broad Ukrainian there.
                      1. segmentata
                        0
                        21 July 2014 01: 28
                        I do not argue at all. About that and said. By lack of education - I meant the militias, the pro-air defense professionals in the Ukrainian. Army, undoubtedly, IS. Perhaps it is precisely those that seated our sides at 08 .......
                      2. segmentata
                        0
                        21 July 2014 01: 34
                        And, by the way, really, which is scary, guys, they really launched Perimeter, the fact that it worked before is a lie, but here my boss flew there, that is. In fact, now it is on duty. And this is tin.
              3. The comment was deleted.
              4. +6
                18 July 2014 11: 33
                Lord God decides! And he punishes! Get ready!
                1. puma88ss
                  +1
                  18 July 2014 17: 18
                  And what does this stream of consciousness mean?
              5. +7
                18 July 2014 12: 01
                In order to judge the "correctness" or the incorrectness of the versions, one must not be smoked with dill, but understand at least in technique, not to mention politics. And more advice, sit on your blogs ukrovskih and do not poke your nose at us, gentlemen maydanutye. Here, normal people communicate, not Banderlog.
              6. +2
                18 July 2014 12: 18
                Quote: romaskadarv
                Are other points of view other than the "correct" ones not accepted?

                Before writing, you need to strain-knock Mosk 100 km from the border
                Oh yes, your ukroministir already stated after all the last time that a plane was shot down from Russian territory
              7. +6
                18 July 2014 12: 34
                Quote: romaskadarv
                And what are the "correct" ones who decide?

                Mr. Obama!
                1. +3
                  18 July 2014 14: 11
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Quote: romaskadarv
                  And what are the "correct" ones who decide?

                  Mr. Obama!

                  Monkey of exceptional race! wassat
                  1. +1
                    18 July 2014 15: 41
                    Damn, but a nigga thought what
              8. +1
                18 July 2014 12: 34
                Quote: romaskadarv
                Are other points of view other than the "correct" ones not accepted? And what are the "correct" ones who decide?


                Realistic versions are being discussed, and versions like a UFO shot down or Martians are not being discussed due to the insufficient amount of gray matter involved in their utterances ... wink
              9. +4
                18 July 2014 12: 35
                Quote: romaskadarv
                Are other points of view other than the "correct" ones not accepted? And what are the "correct" ones who decide?

                And with x ... but is it, excuse me, monsieur, written with a brow with skulls, is "a different opinion"? His comments are stupid in ... p. Biased, unreasonable bunch, which got lost. Do not be like an idiot, sir. No need. PS And I drew a minus sign for you. Forgive me generously. Deserved.
                1. romaskadarv
                  -8
                  18 July 2014 15: 08
                  Thanks for the minus. I wonder what the most negative title on the site?
                  Everyone has their own opinion...
                  1. +3
                    18 July 2014 16: 27
                    Quote: romaskadarv
                    I wonder what the most negative title on the site?

                    You still have everything ahead, the depth of the fall is endless ... smile
                  2. +1
                    18 July 2014 18: 20
                    Quote: romaskadarv
                    I wonder what the most negative title on the site?

                    No one lived with me.
                    wink
                  3. +1
                    18 July 2014 18: 22
                    Quote: romaskadarv
                    Thanks for the minus. I wonder what the most negative title on the site?
                    Everyone has their own opinion...

                    I saw two skulls! But you have the opportunity to break this record!
              10. IGS
                +3
                18 July 2014 12: 39
                romaskadarv SU Today, 11:00 a.m. ↑

                Are other points of view other than the "correct" ones not accepted? And what are the "correct" ones who decide?

                "You troll golimy" - is the opinion accepted?
                1. romaskadarv
                  -10
                  18 July 2014 15: 11
                  Of course. We have a democracy. Freedom of speech and all that ...
              11. +2
                18 July 2014 13: 21
                Quote: romaskadarv
                Are other points of view other than the "correct" ones not accepted? And what are the "correct" ones who decide?

                Well, of course, the frame decides and you .... what is there to argue then !!!
              12. +1
                18 July 2014 13: 29
                The investigation will determine the truth. Poroshenko is profitable to blame everything on Russia, and only this diversion is beneficial for him, since true Ukrainians do not have the strength or brains to defeat the militia of free republics. And for the sake of curiosity, you true Ukrainians lick one place so amicably Mr. Obama?
                1. badger1974
                  +1
                  18 July 2014 20: 25
                  doesn’t work out, since shooting in amerscholles will become widespread, so many averlast authorities have been lied to, this is an indisputable fact
              13. romaskadarv
                -9
                18 July 2014 13: 53
                "Peskov also said that the Kremlin will not make further statements about the tragedy, because so far" nobody knows "who is responsible for it."
                Maybe you will minus Peskov?
              14. wow
                +5
                18 July 2014 13: 58
                And you think with your head "you are our correct", why on the dismantling of the wreckage from the Boeing crash site, on the video, all the displayed passports (Malaysian, American, and others) look like they have just come from the passport office, i.e. brand new and clean!? And not smeared with blood and burnt! ??? What smells ?
                1. 0
                  18 July 2014 16: 31
                  Quote: yo-mine
                  look like just from the passport office,

                  Well, the bodies are disfigured and charred. They also planted?
                  1. 11111mail.ru
                    +2
                    18 July 2014 17: 40
                    Quote: Uncle
                    Well, the bodies are disfigured and charred. They also planted?

                    It was already in history when the "Poles", led by SS Sturmbannfuehrer Alfred Naujoks, left "canned food" at the scene. http://rolershar.ru/category/gru/"Now Naujoks had the last thing to do - to deal with the “canned food.” The man brought by Mueller was named Franz Honyak. His face was covered in blood, and he himself was unconscious. He was a German The day before, the Gestapo arrested him in a village near Gleiwitz. Naujoks fired all the remaining cartridges into him. Later, it was Franz Honyak who would be called the first victim of the Second World War. "
                2. badger1974
                  0
                  18 July 2014 20: 28
                  You won’t believe it, but passports are hidden in skmkah and so on, if you hold in your arms. then it will be charred. believe the old fireman, I also have stories
              15. +3
                18 July 2014 14: 04
                provocateur can be seen right away, that's the way we identify.
              16. +2
                18 July 2014 14: 13
                All points of view are accepted, not unfounded accusations, without any evidence. Personally, I also do not exclude that the militias could have shot down (they have a beech, the question is in its serviceability and the ability to shoot down a plane using only a PU mobile radar). . To determine the truth, you need information, so let's wait! hi
                1. +5
                  18 July 2014 17: 09
                  Quote: ultra
                  the ability to shoot down an aircraft using only a mobile radar PU).


                  It is called self-propelled firing system. also by analogy with our Topol. Both this and the other can work autonomously. That is, it is a full-fledged link in combat control. Of course, I am not special in air defense systems (for a strategic missile), but I have some knowledge. ZRS Buk can work both with target designation data from KP, and independently. For on the SDA, systems such as CVC, telecode communication, and most importantly, are clearly visible tracking station and target illumination station, One thing, but to bring the system into a combat position (mode), you need special keys or KBU in the form of inserts. Without unlocking the digital computer and setting up all systems, starting is not possible. Since it is unlikely that the militias managed to capture these things. then this beech is like a piece of iron. It’s the same as capturing PU Poplar as meaningless and useless even with a nuclear warhead.

                  And there’s nothing to argue about, in my opinion, Putin said everything clearly
                  "We will do everything - everything that depends on us, in any case - so that the objective picture of what happened has become known to our public, and the public of Ukraine, and the whole world. These are absolutely unacceptable things, and no one has the right to pass by this without appropriate conclusions and without the fact that we all have objective information about the incident. "


                  We have reliable and serious facts about what really happened and judging by the hysteria of the KhokhloSMI and incomprehensible statements by the Americans, these facts are unkillable.
                  “On July 17, Russian radio equipment recorded the operation of the Kupol radar station of the Buk-M1 battery stationed in the area of ​​the settlement of Styla (30 kilometers south of Donetsk),” the press service of the Russian Defense Ministry said. “At the same time, the technical features of the Buk-M1 make it possible to exchange information on air targets between the batteries of one battalion. Thus, the missile launch could also be carried out from all batteries deployed in the village of Avdeevka (8 kilometers north of Donetsk) or Gruzsko-Zoryanskoe (25 kilometers east of Donetsk) "
                  .
                  RIA News
                  1. +3
                    18 July 2014 18: 20
                    Quote: Ascetic
                    Without unlocking the digital computer and setting up all systems, starting is not possible. Since it is unlikely that the militias managed to capture these things. then this beech is like a piece of iron


                    Apparently ukrostrategi realized that they froze another stupidity, or retroactively studied the materiel. The consequence of which is a new statement
                    According to Nalyvaichenko, the plane could have been shot down using the Buk-M anti-aircraft complex, which was transported to Ukraine from the territory of Russia. He noted that the SBU has records of the terrorists' negotiations, in which it is a question of the DPR's acquisition of the Buk complex. In the conversation, the terrorists confirm that the Buk's crew is the Russian military.

                    Of course Russian. I just forgot that on the Soviet version, the Dome cannot be dispensed with, and the Dome militia did not even capture the circulating infe. Only SDU. So we should add that target designation was carried out from the territory of Russia, smile
                    1. 0
                      20 July 2014 00: 00
                      Yeah and the drunk Russian air defense soldier drinks drinks fellow brought them to a Malaysian Boeing in the place of dill transport, it’s their fault, or maybe Putin am He ordered a gasp ??? !!! It is necessary to tell, otherwise the State Department and Psaka are already stupid what day, the diskette from the satellite is shamanized (probably jammed) bully and tu-in 100 pood otmaz !!!! Mozhka green throws throw up ??? !!!! drinks drinks
                  2. +1
                    19 July 2014 08: 55
                    Ascetic
                    It is called self-propelled firing system. also by analogy with our Topol. Both this and the other can work autonomously. That is, it is a full-fledged link in combat control. Of course, I am not special in air defense systems (for a strategic missile), but I have some knowledge. ZRS Buk can work both with target designation data from KP, and independently. Because on the SDA, systems such as CVC, telecode communication, and most importantly, the tracking station and the target illumination station are clearly visible, One thing is necessary, to bring the system into combat position (mode), special keys or KBU in the form of inserts are needed. Without unlocking the digital computer and setting up all systems, starting is not possible. Since it is unlikely that the militias managed to capture these things. then this beech is like a piece of iron. It’s the same as capturing PU Poplar as meaningless and useless even with a nuclear warhead.

                    The Buk air defense missile system does not have any DCS locks, no special keys are needed. If the militias captured several SDUs, then it is more likely that they found specialists and assembled at least one serviceable vehicle from them and are working on it. So everything is not even useless.
              17. 0
                18 July 2014 14: 20
                We need to look for someone who benefits from it, if this is not an accident (and this is not an accident, apparently), and then the "correct point of view" will become clear ... and it will have to be accepted. And draw conclusions, not let the brakes go and forget ...
                1. jonh
                  +1
                  18 July 2014 15: 26
                  in fact, it is not beneficial to anyone. and correctly noticed that we must wait. examination will establish exactly how it all happened
                  1. +1
                    18 July 2014 18: 38
                    Quote: jonh
                    in fact, it is not beneficial to anyone. and correctly noticed that we must wait. examination will establish exactly how it all happened

                    If it was not beneficial to anyone, then this would not have happened. But how many "would"! The commission will most likely establish that the board was shot down by a missile, but here is an ambush: which one and who launched it? Something tells me that the guilty have already been identified! As our commander said, we'll figure out whoever we can punish!
                  2. 0
                    19 July 2014 11: 27
                    well no - dill is most profitable ...
              18. +3
                18 July 2014 14: 45
                Accepted. But reasonable. If you can justify WHAT the plane was shot down and WHY, then the version has the right to exist. By the way, the version about the "curvature" of the Ukrainian Air Defense Forces (and not Russian and Novorossiysk ones) fits well with the experience of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the fight against civilian aircraft. Many years have passed, but apparently, over the years, the qualifications of specialists of the Armed Forces of Ukraine fell lower and lower.
                1. +1
                  19 July 2014 00: 25
                  Quote: tolancop
                  Apparently, over the years, the qualifications of APU specialists have been falling ever lower.

                  It depends on which ruler to measure. If the number of victims, then the growth of skill is evident - 70 in 2001 against 300 in 2014.
                  And so I agree, the option of stupid mount-air defense can not be ruled out.
              19. 0
                18 July 2014 14: 48
                The International Aviation Committee decides, after which it is clear who draws the correct conclusions and who does not.
                1. +2
                  18 July 2014 15: 07
                  Quote: Dimas Tugarin
                  International Aviation Committee decides

                  Interstate Aviation Committee (IAC), which includes 11 countries of the former USSR, including Ukraine. Do not confuse people.
                2. 11111mail.ru
                  +2
                  18 July 2014 17: 52
                  Quote: Dimas Tugarin
                  International Aviation Committee decides

                  Laba dene, Dimas! MAC is a stupid office parasitizing on inconsistencies in the rules of law of individual states from the former USSR, recognized by USA as a body of influence on ErEf in this area, and nothing more.
                  1. 0
                    18 July 2014 19: 37
                    Quote: 11111mail.ru
                    MAC

                    Maritime Arbitration Commission? What does she have to do with it?
                    1. 11111mail.ru
                      0
                      19 July 2014 07: 03
                      Quote: bot.su
                      Quote: 11111mail.ru
                      MAC
                      Maritime Arbitration Commission? What does she have to do with it?

                      If, especially for you, I write "AR MAK", will it make you feel better?
                      1. 0
                        19 July 2014 13: 11
                        Quote: 11111mail.ru
                        If, especially for you, I write "AR MAK", will it make you feel better?

                        No. Because then you will have to explain how the IAC Aviation Register has to do with the fall of the Malaysian Boeing. And by the way, why is it that the United States recognizes it as an organ of influence on the Russian Federation?
              20. +2
                18 July 2014 14: 53
                But the people decide. In Britain, for example, they know for sure: listen to what the BBC says and turn 180 degrees.
                1. 0
                  18 July 2014 16: 32
                  Quote: SlavaP
                  listen to what the air force says

                  And who is the air force? We only listen to GDP. smile
                  1. 11111mail.ru
                    +1
                    18 July 2014 18: 00
                    Quote: Uncle
                    Who is the Air Force? We only listen to GDP.

                    Are we kidding? "Knock-Knock...". Who is your friend?
                2. 11111mail.ru
                  0
                  18 July 2014 17: 56
                  Quote: SlavaP
                  But the people decide. In Britain, for example

                  Are you sure? The people, due to their disorganization, can only decide "against", from where all the revolutions organized by interested sponsors came from.
                  1. 0
                    21 July 2014 23: 30
                    In general, yes. Among those representatives of the British people with whom I communicate closely are full of perfectly adequate people.
              21. The comment was deleted.
              22. +8
                18 July 2014 16: 07
                A video with the recording of telephone and radio conversations about the downed Boeing between the "separatists" appeared on the internet a day before the disaster (16.07.2014 15:30). What's this? Intrigues of a time machine or what? You, who have lost all connection with reality, even a provocation can not really be done cleanly. In a word: Banderlog. Jamb on the jamb. Assassins are mindless and cursed.
              23. +2
                18 July 2014 17: 36
                Quote: romaskadarv
                Are other points of view other than the "correct" ones not accepted? And what are the "correct" ones who decide?

                And you are looking for someone who benefits. Who demands the continuation of the war the most? Who is most trying to blame their miscalculations on others? Answer these questions, others will not be needed.
              24. +2
                18 July 2014 18: 00
                Quote: romaskadarv
                Are other points of view other than the "correct" ones not accepted? And what are the "correct" ones who decide?
                And in order not to "break the spears in vain" let's wait for the results of at least an initial inspection of the remains of the aircraft, this will give an answer because of what the plane crashed? After all, the option of a technical malfunction, a terrorist attack is not excluded ... And if it is confirmed that the plane was shot down by a missile, it will make it possible to say what type of missile the Boeing was hit by "air-to-air" or "surface-to-air" ... now in each other "spitting saliva". Patience, a little bit of patience.
              25. 0
                18 July 2014 20: 19
                and the right ones are normal, not provocative, written clearly by Svidomo (and most likely sodomite). this is not the place on this site - let them gather in their interest groups and find fault with us in vain.
              26. 0
                18 July 2014 22: 52
                There are a lot of oddities in this disaster. First, no one saw the relatives of the victims with whom psychologists work, as is usually the case in a disaster. the second passport which is presented as evidence that there were absolutely whole people on board and that after the explosion and fire due to fuel ignition ..... next list?
                1. 0
                  18 July 2014 23: 48
                  True, not too many relatives were shown; fuel was in the wings, and the plane fell apart in the air - there was a fire and burnt engines showed. But passports are really a bit much, and new ones. In real life, try to at least find it in a purse, bags, etc.
                  There are questions, but I don’t think they are fatal. Do not multiply entities without the need.
              27. 0
                19 July 2014 12: 56
                And the State Department determines the correctness of mattresses. Again, Russia is to blame.
              28. xana usa
                +1
                19 July 2014 21: 08
                What do you mean by the word correct opinion? what they want to explain to us how this tragedy could have happened is right, unlike hysteria both on your part and on the part of ukroshtats, and they hung almost real-time about the tragedy
              29. 0
                20 July 2014 00: 29
                What really happened with the plane.
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VObcYMHNovE&feature=youtu.be
            2. Natalia
              +27
              18 July 2014 11: 56
              Quote: carpag
              The main version is the monstrously low professional level of Russian (Novorossiysk) air defense personnel who are unable to distinguish between military Ukrainian and passenger aircraft. 300 people paid for it with life

              And now, reasonably without emotion and bias.
              The Ukrainian side already has experience of low professionalism.
              In October 2001, a passenger airliner flying from Tel Aviv to Novosibirsk was shot down by a Ukrainian missile over the Black Sea. The catastrophe in which 78 people were killed occurred during the air defense exercises.
              Then C-200 worked.

              And now, the facts and allusions to the repetition of such a case have accumulated decently.

              On the other hand, in the recent history of Russia (over the past 23 years). Even in the dashing 90s, Russian air defenses have never packed a civilian airliner. Therefore, you are a respected, simply heinous troll who has the audacity to question the professionalism and competence of officers, sergeants and soldiers in Russian air defense.
              1. +1
                18 July 2014 12: 43
                Quote: Natalia
                The Ukrainian side already has experience of low professionalism.
                Yes, in my opinion they don’t know how to shoot anymore, in 2001 the last launch of an air defense missile in an independent one was made and it hit Tu-154. And why did they have to deploy air defense there and there are no airplanes in the militia. I am inclined to the version that the Boeing 777 fell of their own accord, 4 months ago there was an incident with the same plane of the same airline in which it simply disappeared into the ocean and no one could answer the question - why. Perhaps the answer to this question lies at the village of Grabovo.
                1. +2
                  18 July 2014 12: 58
                  Quote: Canep
                  Quote: Natalia
                  The Ukrainian side already has experience of low professionalism.
                  Yes, in my opinion they don’t know how to shoot anymore, in 2001 the last launch of an air defense missile in an independent one was made and it hit Tu-154. And why did they have to deploy air defense there and there are no airplanes in the militia. I am inclined to the version that the Boeing 777 fell of their own accord, 4 months ago there was an incident with the same plane of the same airline in which it simply disappeared into the ocean and no one could answer the question - why. Perhaps the answer to this question lies at the village of Grabovo.

                  Eco bent down - he fell, for no reason ...
                  Now let's agree even before that, it turns out, that March Boeing (by the way, also a Malaysian one) just flew out of the "gap in the space-time continuum", where it found itself during the fall and was there all this time, and the gap exactly fell on the current area of ​​its fall ... And the flying Boeing flew into its place in the gap ...
                  To whom to pour ...
                2. ABV
                  +4
                  18 July 2014 13: 31
                  Quote: Canep
                  4 months ago there was an incident with the same plane of the same airline in which it simply disappeared into the ocean and no one could answer the question - why. Perhaps the answer to this question lies at the village of Grabovo.

                  What is not the version? By the way, shares of the Malaysian airline have already fallen sharply and it is on the verge of bankruptcy. You can buy for a song ...
                  1. +5
                    18 July 2014 14: 26
                    Quote: ABV
                    What is not the version? By the way, shares of the Malaysian airline have already fallen sharply and it is on the verge of bankruptcy. You can buy for a song ...

                    Oh how! Yes, some information about some paratroopers who left the plane flashed. By the way, it was reported that almost a hundred people flew to the AIDS conference. And the fight against HIV / AIDS is such budget money on a global scale that for the sake of them, interested parties can commit any crime. Moreover, in this case, no one will consider this version. But it would be necessary to check who flew and why, were the passengers candidates for the heads of funds or companies with huge budgets? Were there not among them people who were ready to undeniably reasonably prove the predominantly amateurish version that HIV was not the cause of AIDS and cut down budgets of heaps of pharmaceutical, medical and insurance companies at the root?
                    Finally, maybe this company has stupidly old, exhausted planes or pilots who bought their diplomas.
                    To evaluate all this, a tremendous amount of work needs to be done in different countries. It is unlikely that anyone will be doing this for a long time, doing it; the investigation will be like Krylov’s:
                    "When there is no agreement in the comrades,
                    In the mood their business will not go,
                    And it will not work out of him, only flour.
                    Once a Swan, Cancer and Pike ... "

                    We build versions not on facts, but on emotions. On incomprehensible blogging testimonies from LiveJournal, Facebook and other "reliable" sources.
                    So all the charges will be political.
                    1. jonh
                      0
                      18 July 2014 15: 28
                      read less yellow press
                      1. 0
                        18 July 2014 18: 01
                        Read more serious texts, helps to learn to think logically.
                3. +10
                  18 July 2014 14: 21
                  Canep

                  Ukrainians know how to shoot.

                  They proved this in the conflict between Russia and Georgia, when they helped their Georgian "brothers".

                  We then lost three Su-25, two Su-24 and one Tu-22М3:

                  - 1СУ-25бм and 1СУ-24м - MANPADS;
                  - 1Tu-22m3 - SAM "Osa-AK / AKM" (it was the Ukrainians who shot down);
                  - 1Su-24m - SAM "Spyder-SR";
                  - 1Su-25bm - by mistake from the fire of their own "Shilok"
                4. +1
                  18 July 2014 16: 35
                  Quote: Canep
                  I am inclined to believe that the Boeing 777 crashed of its own accord

                  The Malays, by the way, do not claim that the Boeing was shot down. Just a disaster, without premature conclusions.
                5. 0
                  18 July 2014 23: 55
                  Quote: Canep
                  . I am inclined to the version that the Boeing 777 crashed of its own accord, 4 months ago there was an incident with the same plane of the same airline in which it simply disappeared into the ocean and no one could answer the question - why. Perhaps the answer to this question lies at the village of Grabovo.


                  By the way, such a version was voiced, but there were American ones instead of those who were secretly there - but the same result. Our means of objective control does not really reach the South China Sea (at the limit), the satellite group of optical control gives us only a fragmentary picture, in fact, this group is no longer there, and the Americans will not talk to themselves - therefore, that plane and did not find.
              2. +2
                18 July 2014 12: 47
                The Ukrainian side already has experience of low professionalism.
                In October 2001, a passenger airliner flying from Tel Aviv to Novosibirsk was shot down by a Ukrainian missile over the Black Sea. The catastrophe in which 78 people were killed occurred during the air defense exercises.
                Then C-200 worked.

                With all due respect, I cannot believe the version of low professionalism in relation to the downed plane. As for professionalism, yes, where would they improve it, this is understandable and a hedgehog. Especially after the "successful" exercises of 2001, which were already mentioned here, and the ban on "training" launches in the air defense of the Armed Forces.
                So here. What am I getting at.
                What is their low professionalism now showing?
                Exercises with live firing were not foreseen.
                They were on duty in anticipation of some target commensurate with the "Boeing" from the side of the rebels, or the Russian Federation - sheer nonsense, it is also understandable here.
                They accompanied the liner and accidentally fired (they wiped the dust on the red button, opened a bottle of beer on it, accidentally sat down on it) ... (forgive me, I'm not versed in this area for air defense, I served in missile defense and I argue from the height of my flight) but but what about "prevention of accidental and unauthorized launches - the main task of the Special Service" ...
                Here at least kill, but if these measures are also inherent in air defense, then the launch simply will not take place without unlocking the systems by a "specialist". Consequently, the launch blocking was removed in advance for something, and the launch took place ... and achieved its goal. In order to "fail" such a goal, a lot of professionalism is not needed.
                1. +2
                  18 July 2014 13: 14
                  In order to "fail" such a goal, a lot of professionalism is not needed.

                  Nevertheless, someone aimed a rocket, issued a command to launch and carried out escort.
                  1. +3
                    18 July 2014 14: 06
                    Quote: Wedmak
                    In order to "fail" such a goal, a lot of professionalism is not needed.

                    Nevertheless, someone aimed a rocket, issued a command to launch and carried out escort.

                    Here I am - about the same.
                    So this is a purposeful and prepared action.
                    Someone on the "special" and the prevention of unauthorized and accidental missile launches in air defense will enlighten me - is there such a structure in the air defense, or is it "under the heading" ...?
                  2. +6
                    18 July 2014 15: 13
                    The target was found, identified, transmitted information to the command post of the air defense missile system, specifying at the same time that the target is a regular aircraft (within the corridor, level 10100, or the target is a violator of the flight regime, there is no "trouble" signal) and is flying according to the flight plan. Carried out the wiring to the means of destruction. The goal was passed. The commander of the unit (or higher) set the task for destruction. Means of destruction took her to escort with their electronic means, again identified, put the missile on preparation for launch, fired it, guided it to the target, before meeting with the target again identified with the help of "friend or foe" equipment. The hit and fall of debris and the disappearance of the mark from the rocket and from the target were recorded. Moreover, all RL information from the moment of transferring the goal and setting the task is documented by means of objective control. The targeting officer reported on the results of the firing and the missile consumption. By the way, there are usually 2 missiles in an air defense missile salvo, to ensure a given probability of defeat. Although shooting alone is possible. This is if the rockets are "ground-to-air". This is from an insufficiently qualified former air defense Schnick information. Still puzzling is the gradual shift in the flight corridor of this flight three days before the tragedy. He was specially taken to the "catastrophe" area. As you can see, such work cannot be carried out by chance, it requires a certain coordination and qualifications (believe me, everything is very simplified here, all calculations must be trained and know and be able to do a lot) An unintentional start is possible, but in the case of the Tu 154 it took place an intentional combat launch at the target target and the missile seeker captured the Tu 154, but the calculation did not understand this in time. The illumination beam is narrow, does not see anything else ... I was waiting for the missile to meet with the target ... by the way, before the meeting I did not turn on the interrogator ... They did not pay attention to such "trifles" (only 0,05 points were removed at the test site) then it was necessary to withdraw the ROC (R / target illumination locator) and the rocket would go to self-destruction. In any case, if the launch is indeed unintentional, the targeting officer can take action to self-destruct the missile. The principle of "fire and forget" has not yet been fully implemented.))) It was the case that the Iranian Boeing was shot down by the Americans, by the forces of the naval air defense, they said that it was unintentional. Everything there was in combat, they just mistook him for an attacking plane and fired a rocket - their own lives are more precious ... The time was tense then ...
                    There is evidence that the 777 was destroyed by air-to-air missiles. But unskilled aviators will tell you about it. But I am sure that this is also not easy, and that there is intent clearly. It looks like someone is trying to nail their scrotum to a concrete post. I think we'll find out soon who exactly. There is almost no chance of falling on your own, although ...
                    1. +1
                      18 July 2014 16: 39
                      Quote: oblako
                      There is evidence that the 777 was destroyed by air-to-air missiles.

                      I heard on the radio that the Boeingol flew Su25, they fell several times. From the earth they saw and heard. How reliable, I don’t know.
                      1. 11111mail.ru
                        +2
                        18 July 2014 18: 17
                        Quote: Uncle
                        I heard on the radio that the Boeingol flew Su25, they fell several times.

                        For starters, take into account that the Su-25 is an attack aircraft for work on ground targets (stupidly like the A-20 for the Americans) and work at an echelon of 33000 feet (this is me for you as an English-speaking) theoretically, but there is still such task, as aiming at the target (to carry out the attack, you need to bring the attacker to the same height and approximately the same course as the target, so that the speed of the attacker and his means of destruction are comparable to the speed of the attacked object. So your version is unclear, "sir ".
                    2. ded10041948
                      0
                      18 July 2014 18: 23
                      The mark on the screen from such a "bast" as 777 has nothing to do with the mark from a combat aircraft. Or is it made with stealth technology?
                      And I somehow have little faith in the fact that in this sloven herd (Air Defense of the Armed Forces) the instructions for preventing unintentional launches are being followed. This is not to mention an intentional combat launch. From the territory of the Russian Federation "Buk" could not shoot (it is possible to capture the target of the radar, but the missile stupidly will not reach the point of hitting the target).
                      1. badger1974
                        +3
                        18 July 2014 20: 44
                        and watering people in Odessa, and watering children in Donbass, ah ... residential areas, and throwing grenades into the cellars is not where the militias are hiding, there are no two foreheads to identify.
              3. +1
                18 July 2014 12: 59
                I will add that a good school of excellent personnel was located where? in Kiev: higher military command school of missile forces and artillery. Here is such an irony
                1. 0
                  18 July 2014 14: 02
                  Quote: Angara
                  I will add that a good school of excellent personnel was located where? in Kiev: higher military command school missile forces and artillery. Here is such an irony

                  And what about air defense?
                2. Irtysh
                  0
                  18 July 2014 14: 19
                  And VIZRU in Minsk?
                  1. +3
                    18 July 2014 14: 30
                    Quote: Irtysh
                    A VISRA In Minsk?

                    Let's remember the Tver Academy ...
                    And what about Minsk?
                    Just the dispute of pique vests:
                    - Read about the conference on disarmament? - one piqué vest turned to another piqué vest. - Speech by Earl Bernstorf.

                    - Bernstorf is the head! - the asked vest answered in such a tone, as if he had been convinced of it on the basis of a long-term acquaintance with the count.

                    “Well, what to talk about ... Snowden is the head!” Listen, Valiadis, ”he addressed the third old man in Panama. “What do you say about Snowden?”

                    “I will tell you frankly,” answered the panama, “do not put a finger in Snowden's mouth.” I personally would not put my finger.

                    And, in no way embarrassed that Snowden would not have allowed Valiadis to put a finger into his mouth for anything, the old man continued:

                    “But no matter what you say, I’ll tell you frankly - Chamberlain is also a head.”

                    Pique vests lifted shoulders. They did not deny that Chamberlain was also a head. But most of all, Briand consoled them.

                    - Briand! They said with fervor. - This is the head! He with his pan-European project ...

                    “I'll tell you frankly, Monsieur Pound,” Valiadis whispered, “it's all right.” Benes has already agreed to pan-Europe, but you know, under what condition?

                    Pique vests gathered closer and pulled out chicken necks.

                    - Provided that Chernomorsk will be declared a free city. Benes is the head. After all, they need to sell someone their agricultural implements? So we will buy.

                    With this message, the eyes of the elderly flashed. For many years they wanted to buy and sell,

                    “Briand is the head!” They said with a sigh. - Benes is also the head.

                    (Ilf and Petrov, Golden Calf (C))
                    1. +1
                      18 July 2014 16: 28
                      In a way, it reminded me of a discussion of problems on the VO site.)))
                      1. +2
                        18 July 2014 16: 52
                        Quote: Oprychnik
                        In a way, it reminded me of a discussion of problems on the VO site.)))

                        Oh!
                        "VO" is the head! wink
                    2. 0
                      19 July 2014 00: 52
                      good
                      Quote: podpolkovnik
                      For many years they wanted to buy and sell.

                      laughing laughing laughing
                3. helg717
                  0
                  18 July 2014 15: 24
                  QUISRU, more specifically.
              4. carp
                -12
                18 July 2014 13: 01
                Non-commissioned officer Natalya Prishibeeva! In the episode of 2001 of the year you mentioned, Ukrainians tried to deny until the Americans proved the fact of the launch of C-200 using their satellite surveillance systems. In the same way, the Americans will decrypt the data during 48 hours and the whole world will know who made the launch. You forgot that the plane flew from Western Ukraine to Eastern, so the Ukrainians could not confuse it with the Russian one. Besides that you are so offended for air defense? Remember Rust, Lebanon 82 of the year, Iraq 90 of the year, etc.
                1. +4
                  18 July 2014 13: 53
                  Well, you’re just like my daughter in kindergarten. The same naivety. So you have to tell like your daughter (naive, affectionate and stroking the head): American colleagues will definitely quickly and correctly decrypt and tell everyone. But the question is ... WHAT will they say? Recent events, alas, show that you cannot be trusted - they only say what is beneficial to them.
                2. +4
                  18 July 2014 14: 12
                  Quote: carpag
                  Non-commissioned officer Natalya Prishibeeva! In the episode of 2001 of the year you mentioned, Ukrainians tried to deny until the Americans proved the fact of the launch of C-200 using their satellite surveillance systems. In the same way, the Americans will decrypt the data during 48 hours and the whole world will know who made the launch. You forgot that the plane flew from Western Ukraine to Eastern, so the Ukrainians could not confuse it with the Russian one. Besides that you are so offended for air defense? Remember Rust, Lebanon 82 of the year, Iraq 90 of the year, etc.

                  And comrade is confident in the authenticity of the results of this
                  Americans will decrypt the data in 48 hours and the whole world will know who launched

                  Vague doubts about the independence and objectivity of these results torment me ...
                  Just do not need to 2001-th year here to track down.
                  1. -8
                    18 July 2014 15: 21
                    Quote: podpolkovnik
                    And comrade is confident in the authenticity of the results of this
                    Americans will decrypt the data in 48 hours and the whole world will know who launched

                    Vague doubts about the independence and objectivity of these results torment me ...
                    Just do not need to 2001-th year here to track down.

                    will you give a guarantee that in the event of a hypothetical downing of this Boeing-Russia he will plead guilty? Militia pleads guilty?
                    But at the same time you demand an instant plea of ​​Ukraine on the basis of
                    1-Shit mos.kalyam (provocation)
                    2-Love for the shooting of liners (there was only 1 case tragic and the Americans proved, not the Russians or Ukrainians)
                    The version that the Ukrainians do not need this and not why (the plane was going through Ukraine and suddenly decided to shoot it down right where needed) is not considered logic. For reasons of wanting to see a "provocation towards the Russian Federation" - Ukraine will always be to blame.
                    1. +1
                      18 July 2014 19: 26
                      Quote: Cristall
                      (provocation)

                      That's it, and under the guise of the United States! The Anglo-Saxons promised a cover, hence the statement of the parashenko! Just forgot how the Americans are throwing, remember 08.08.08. there, after all, everything happened with the go-ahead of America!
                    2. badger1974
                      0
                      19 July 2014 07: 30
                      and where is the logic of the bombing of people? there Mochilov’s logic of everything that degenerates in the face of a bucket can have, they are stealing godlessly gas at the state level from the Washington state (Washington is correct to write exactly like a kiviv), logically, liners can beat at the state level
                3. +2
                  18 July 2014 14: 25
                  What if textures fly on American satellites and it turns out that the plane was shot down by a superclass super-maneuverable Russian-made anti-missile?
                  I mean, the Americans can rig the results to justify their ally
                4. +7
                  18 July 2014 16: 23
                  Quote: carpag
                  Remember Rust

                  Rust is a complex of fear for the Korean Boeing, when everyone pissed off to make a decision. At the same time, he was perfectly driven by radars. Gorbachev is a democrat, his mother .... What did Joseph Vissarionitch say when someone knocked down the offender on his own initiative?
                  "Shinkarenko began to be summoned to various authorities, an analysis took place at the very top. The Minister of the Navy, Kuznetsov, demanded that the colonel be brought to court. Stalin walked silently for a long time and smoked a pipe, then asked Kuznetsov:" So how do you want to punish Major General Shinkarenko? " The admiral wilted, and the colonel received a new rank "

                  You better remember Powers and Vietnam
              5. +2
                18 July 2014 17: 40
                Quote: Natalia
                You are a respected, simply simply infamous troll who has the audacity to question the professionalism and competence of officers, sergeants and soldiers in Russian air defense.

                You responded too softly. This is not just a troll, it's about a crippled provocateur.
              6. badger1974
                +1
                18 July 2014 20: 36
                shooting from tanks at the barracks and just into the housing sector is normal, the death of military personnel and civilians was the norm - why do you want from the suburbs of the outskirts and in particular from the kiviv authorities (KIEV should not be called ukromiobanedersky scum, because Kiev is ours, and kiwi is theirs)
            3. 0
              18 July 2014 21: 54
              Vidio, where supposedly militias discuss the results, the downed Boeing appeared on the network ..also 16/07.2014/XNUMX ...
              Friends on the network reported that a video with the approximate name "SBU intercepted the negotiations of Russian terrorists" was made in advance, before the plane crashed.

              You can draw conclusions yourself. Here is one of the links http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe3w1_Kc8lM 16.07.2014/XNUMX/XNUMX.
              That is, a day before the plane crashes.


              HERE .. IN THE LINK, ALL INFA ... HOW TO CHECK IT ...
              DO AND DISTRIBUTE IT IS VERY IMPORTANT !!!
              http://www.segodnia.ru/content/143525

              YES, AND HERE INFA ... FOR MEDITATION ... NOW ALL RUSSIANS ... ON THE TOPIC OF A BATTLEED BOEING ... HARDLY BATTED ON ALL WESTERN SITES, ESPECIALLY AMEROVY ... COMES TOTAL CLEARANCE. NOT RESOLVED .. !!!
              I was already banned for two ...
              1. +2
                18 July 2014 22: 29
                The file, supposedly deciphering the negotiations of the militias, submitted by the SBU on the evening of July 17, was uploaded to the video hosting 2014-07-16 19:10:24.

                And here are its characteristics:
                клик
            4. joum
              0
              19 July 2014 00: 55
              At the expense of the level ...
          2. +15
            18 July 2014 10: 54
            For downs like you and other demos, yes, the basic version ...
            1. +1
              18 July 2014 13: 27
              For arnulla: Do you at least explain who you think are.
          3. +18
            18 July 2014 11: 01
            Quote: carpag
            monstrously low professional level

            you would be better off doing ground operations svovo government ...
            and then when evacuation is required, we will not accept it in a new Khazaria!
            We will filter by ip and iq ... we do not need UO ... bully
            Moreover, Judas working for 30 pieces of silver.
          4. +13
            18 July 2014 11: 02
            Nevertheless, the option in which the Ukrainians did this was not even considered initially? It seems like your (judging by the flag) compatriots they (Ukrainians) somehow shot down over the Black Sea, there is experience, isn’t that so?
          5. +15
            18 July 2014 11: 04
            Quote: carpag
            The main version is the monstrously low professional level of Russian (Novorossiysk) air defense personnel who are unable to distinguish between military Ukrainian and passenger aircraft. 300 people paid for it with life

            If the plane crashed in the territory of the militias, then it was shot down earlier, over the Dnipropetrovsk region, the Boeing speed is about 800 km / h. Turn on the brain, comrade. And having launchers from Buk, I think that in order to get the plane you need at least 3 more cars with equipment that will detect, target and provide all this with energy. And among the militias, I only saw a cart with missiles, in itself it is rubbish.
            Yes, and two paratroopers from Boeing are generally nonsense, it’s impossible for them to fall out of the plane alive, the speed is high, they will spread across the wreckage.
            1. +12
              18 July 2014 11: 41
              Quote: Max Otto
              and two paratroopers from Boeing

              I don’t know how on Boeing777, but on IL-62 emergency lighthouses were parachutes...Those. in case of aircraft destruction in the air, automatically (by overload sensors) are thrown out by parachutes so that they do not crash and function.
              1. +4
                18 July 2014 17: 07
                According to my calculations, if it was a ground-based air defense system,
                he should have fired at least from the Avdeevka, Gornyak, Novogorodovka, Dmitrov, Dzerzhinsk, Panteleimonovka districts, as a maximum, even more to the west. If you believe the cards in nete about the location of the sides, then there are dill. In any case, we must wait for the results of the investigation, but I think that even if they prove conclusively that dill brought down the Boeing, they will say that he shot himself down.
              2. 11111mail.ru
                +2
                18 July 2014 18: 28
                Quote: Rus2012
                thrown out on parachutes thu

                By the way about the birds, ugh about the "parash"уtah "...
                http://otvet.mail.ru/question/35561434
                "Viktor Yurievich Sobolev Thinker (6446) 4 years ago
                the word is cunning, non-Russian, and came from the French language, along with the parachute of the Jucmes system.
                It consists of the words “parer ', (which is a verb meaning“ to parry, resist, resist ”), and the noun“ chute ”, which means“ falling. ”Together, it denotes a device that counteracts a fall and replaces it with a controlled safe descent.
                Naturally, the word is put into circulation in the language that introduces it, it would be cast iron to invent something Russian, so let it be a "parachute".
                The spelling of such words should be memorized, and not reduced, although, of course, in Russian phonetics there are no combinations like "ЩЮ", which cannot be said about French. "
            2. +3
              18 July 2014 11: 55
              Parachutes in a passenger liner ?! belay This is nonsense !!! fool This only happens in candy ads. wassat
              1. +1
                18 July 2014 12: 30
                Quote: Weniamin
                This only happens in candy ads.

                Not yet in Hollywood all the time.
              2. +5
                18 July 2014 14: 16
                Quote: Weniamin
                Parachutes in a passenger liner ?! belay This is nonsense !!! fool This only happens in candy ads. wassat

                When an aircraft is forced to land or land, a small radio transmitter weighing about 20 kg is automatically or at the request of the pilot thrown up from the tail section of the aircraft up to a height of 50 m.
                The opened parachute gently lowers the transmitter to the ground, where a series of sequential automatic actions are performed: separating the device from the parachute, extending the legs that put the transmitter in the desired position and serving as a support for it, releasing the antennas from the covers, extending the antenna with horizontal polarization, installation, automatic fixation and extending the antenna for operation on short and decimeter waves and, finally, transmitting a distress message.
            3. Repeat
              -3
              18 July 2014 14: 17
              Read about this complex. And keep in mind that detection and target designation data could come "from the outside", which we will be informed about. And who supplied the data to the militias?
          6. The comment was deleted.
          7. -75
            18 July 2014 11: 06
            Tyuu, how can you tell them apart? We thought the Il-76 turned out to be a Boeing. Plus, a solid premium for the downed Ukrainian transport aircraft clouded the mind ... In general, air defense is an integrated system of forces and means: RTV, ZRV, electronic warfare, RTR, various ACS and KP. Most (almost all) militias do not have these opportunities. We acquired a military complex, and made decisions on destruction on the spot, as if in a battle ... And we give medals and orders for those shot down. Look how the Korean was overwhelmed - the flyer who visually (!) Saw the passenger was given an order, and Kornukov, who decisively authorized the shooting down of the Koreans, later became the Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force and the Hero of Russia. But Rust was not shot down, and everyone "got a hat", inconsistencies, and voluntary-forced resignations.
            1. +28
              18 July 2014 11: 17
              Thought IL-76, was a Boeing.

              Do you think the flare from 4-engine and twin-engine aircraft is the same?
              What nonsense to carry, again went to the Maidan?
              1. -38
                18 July 2014 11: 31
                there is such a characteristic - EPR (effective scattering surface). In principle, there are all sorts of formulas for calculating the RCS, but in fact, they finally determine the RCS practically by "irradiating" the aircraft. Geometric dimensions are very important in determining the RCS, especially in the wing and nose areas. The Il-76 and the Boeing 777 are comparable. True, Boeing is a fairly new aircraft, composites, etc. are used, but there is still plenty of metal in it. So, it is likely that there is an error in the identification of the aircraft. Mdaaa, do you think the "flare" from the twin-engine B-777 is similar to the twin-engine An-148 or Superjet?
                1. +24
                  18 July 2014 11: 45
                  Wow, smart words remembered. In fact, the EPR of civilian liners is known. In addition, they have an automatic responder screaming at the whole village, who he is, where he comes from and where.
                  The geometric dimensions are very important in determining the EPR, especially in the area of ​​the wing and nose.

                  Yeah, and especially the engines - that's where the bulk of the metal is.
                  Mdaaa, do you think the "flare" from the twin-engine B-777 is similar to the twin-engine An-148 or Superjet?

                  Of course, different.
                  1. +3
                    18 July 2014 14: 16
                    EPR civilian liners are known. In addition, they have an automatic responder screaming at the whole village, who he is, where he comes from and where

                    Right now, Aeneas will answer that the defendants of the spies have been turned off. And then they jumped out with parachutes ...
                    1. -2
                      18 July 2014 15: 07
                      Of course, this discussion is not very useful, because, for example, I do not quite know how the civil liner "yells" (I can only guess), and with the help of which Buk's calculation can hear it. For he did not serve on Buks or other military air defense complexes. But in RTV there is such a machine. Maybe a little old, but in the 90s it was still relevant.
                      1. +3
                        18 July 2014 15: 31
                        Aeneas

                        So what?

                        This is a photograph of the 1L22 object (ground-based radar interrogator) manufactured by the USSR.

                        Briefly his tasks:
                        - the implementation of identification ("friend or foe") is the essence of determining whether the objects detected by the radar station belong to their armed forces.
                        - obtaining individual identification information (board number) and flight data (flight altitude, fuel reserve) (for military aircraft).
                        - allows you to solve the problems of guidance of their aircraft and control the air situation (for military aircraft).

                        On foreign aircraft no SRZO systems (aircraft radar interrogator and transponder).
                        The ATC responder on board operates in the "RBS" mode (4 digits - the so-called "squok") (in the active response (AO) mode, i.e. only in the "response" mode, and not the "request-response" method ).

                        And "squok" is used only for aircraft identification purposes in ATC systems.
                  2. 11111mail.ru
                    +1
                    18 July 2014 18: 46
                    Quote: Wedmak
                    civilian liners are known. In addition, they have an automatic responder screaming at the whole village, who he is, where he comes from and where.

                    ... the transponder is called ... This is not for me, but for the dill ...
                2. +1
                  18 July 2014 11: 56
                  "18.07.2014/00/08 | XNUMX:XNUMX

                  The Israel Defense Forces launched a ground operation in the Gaza Strip. Its goal is to destroy the tunnels dug by Palestinian militants under a joint border. This was reported by the military command and political leadership of the country.
                  The troops entered the land phase 10 days after the start of the operation, which until now has been limited to remote attacks from air and sea.

                  “Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon have instructed to send ground troops into the Gaza Strip in order to strike at the tunnels of terrorists,” a spokesman for the Israeli head of government told RIA Novosti.

                  Based on materials: RT ""
                  http://www.fondsk.ru/news/2014/07/18/izrail-nachal-nazemnuju-voennuju-operaciju-
                  v-sector-gaza-28542.html
                  ..
                3. +11
                  18 July 2014 12: 32
                  Aeneas UA Today,
                  there is such a characteristic - EPR (effective scattering surface .. "

                  But here is how POLITICS goes ahead of the investigation :::::
                  "17 July 2014
                  NATO Secretary General statement on Malaysia Airlines crash
                  I am deeply shocked and saddened by the crash of a Malaysia Airlines passenger plane in Ukraine today, with the loss of many lives.

                  I offer my sincere condolences to the families and relatives of the victims, as well as to all those touched by this terrible tragedy.
                  Much remains unclear about the circumstances of the accident. However, the instability in the region caused by the Russian-backed separatists created a more dangerous situation.
                  It is important that a full international investigation must be launched immediately, without hindrance, to establish the facts and that those who may be held accountable are swiftly brought to justice. "
                  http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/news_111773.htm?selectedLocale=en
                  Those. NATO has already been declared guilty ... "caused by the separatists supported by Russia, .." .. maybe for this and .. According to Freud .. on the subconscious .. ??
                4. +1
                  18 July 2014 13: 12
                  Ha-ha-ha ... Dear, how do you imagine shooting from a Buk-type air defense system: fired and forgot ??? It has already been written above that at least 2 more vehicles are required: a radar and a command one. SAM is not a slingshot for you. In general, a minus.
                  1. 0
                    18 July 2014 13: 58
                    PU BUK has its own radar. And it seems like he can act alone. But of course not as effective as in full force.
                    1. helg717
                      +1
                      18 July 2014 15: 31
                      but the height of detection and destruction of the target is about 5000-6000 m, and not 10000
                      1. +1
                        18 July 2014 15: 46
                        The performance characteristics of the SOC (target detection station) of the Buk-m1 air defense system:

                        Detection area:
                        - in height: 25 km
                        - range (at zero closing angles
                        at the altitude of the target 100 m): 35 km
                        - in range at a target span height from 1 to 25 km: 100 km

                        Detection area by angular coordinates:
                        - in azimuth: 360 degrees
                        - elevation: 40 degrees

                        Resolution:
                        - range: 400 m
                        - in angular coordinates: 3-4,5 degrees

                        Data can be found online.
                        1. 0
                          18 July 2014 21: 27
                          So the fact of the matter is that the militias DO NOT have this station!
                    2. -1
                      18 July 2014 22: 09
                      as far as I know - "Buk" is the same "Thor". Only made at another plant.
                      And he seems to be autonomous .... he does not need a bunch of escort vehicles ..
                      1. 0
                        19 July 2014 07: 39
                        Nifiga you do not know, these are completely different cars. Thor, this is a purely rocket analogue of the Shell, with slightly different characteristics.
                        Yes, it can operate autonomously, but its characteristics are almost halved!
                      2. badger1974
                        0
                        19 July 2014 07: 44
                        there is such an expression - do not confuse the penis with a finger - you have it with regards, "Thor" - the toros is a good old wasp - to your regret, an echelon of 9 KM tok ma can get it with a previously detected target, that is, it is constantly irradiated, and in contrast from the "Wasp" operator "Tor" can directly see the target both in the IR range and visually, in the visible range
                5. 0
                  18 July 2014 14: 28
                  The DPR and LPR do not have normal radars, and those that are, do not allow to distinguish between Boeing and Sil at such a height hi
            2. +17
              18 July 2014 11: 22
              tuu, but how do you distinguish them? Thought IL-76, was a Boeing.
              Are you talking about the Ukrainian air defense forces? .. Are you right ... 2001 thought that the Boeing turned out to be Tu ..
              1. -3
                18 July 2014 11: 48
                let's not fool around, in 2001 they shot at a target, hit ... Yes, gouging.
                1. +7
                  18 July 2014 12: 52
                  let's not fool around, in 2001 they shot at a target, hit ... Yes, gouging.

                  Of course we won’t. This time, whom they aimed at and hit.
                  That's just dill still do not understand what substance they got into am
                2. Vik.Tor
                  +2
                  18 July 2014 13: 11
                  What foolishness, when they got to Boeing, he didn’t fall like a cul with shit (I’m sorry), he still flew for some time and could fly a lot, hence the answer that they knocked him down earlier.
                  1. Repeat
                    -2
                    18 July 2014 13: 19
                    That is how he fell. A rocket destroyed the glider and it fell along a ballistic trajectory. Pretty sharp, so they knocked him not far (along the axis of movement) from the place where he fell.
                3. +10
                  18 July 2014 15: 53
                  I’m wildly aware, it’s like that, they shot at a target and hit them ..... Curious, curious, I served on the S-200 and the rocket itself from the durbola to another target is not reassigned. When the AC of the Russian Orthodox Church is broken (auto tracking and radio illumination of the target), the lights blink and the buzzer sounds, only after that if there is no command from K-2 (the station of guidance and control) and there is no target similar in characteristics, the self-destruction command is triggered. The rocket becomes upright and at maximum thrust goes up and only then does an explosion occur. Please tell me in 2001 what size did the Ukrainians have a target? And at the expense of unprofessionalism in the Russian troops, this is complete nonsense. Air Defense Forces - troops on constant alert! We were so dragged that I still remember all the characteristics of NATO combat aircraft. And their responsibilities and BR. And do not put on bast shoes on the genitals. On board this airliner flew our experts in a very interesting and secret area, after negotiations in Israel. From here we draw conclusions. And in those years, remember how many bright heads strangely rested in another world. These are all the Amerisos’s muddles, bastards.
            3. +13
              18 July 2014 11: 58
              Aeneas
              In general, air defense is an integrated system of forces and means: RTV, ZRV, REB, RTR, various ACS and KP. Most (almost all) militias do not have these opportunities.

              Where does such a deep knowledge of the air defense system come from? The militias really do not have such opportunities. But the Ukrainian Armed Forces just have them. And proceeding from the fact that aircraft No. 1 of Russia was supposed to fly along this corridor at about the same time, all these means could have been used in order to shoot it down. Having the UA domain and writing: "And we are given medals and orders for the knocked down", you confirm the above stated by me.
              1. +1
                18 July 2014 12: 40
                Quote: AQUARIUS 65
                And based on the fact that at about the same time board No. 1 of Russia was supposed to fly along this corridor,

                Where did you get this? And what's the point of flying there?
                Only fools can be led to this.
              2. +2
                18 July 2014 14: 21
                Aeneas
                Having the UA domain and writing: "And we give medals and orders for the knocked down", you confirm the above stated by me.

                Enchanting!
                Powerfully pushed, impress, well done ...
            4. +9
              18 July 2014 12: 28
              Quote: Aeneas
              the flyer who visually (!) saw the passenger

              You know, even if he saw a passenger who ignored all his calls ... He carried out the order and is the culprit in the last turn. And the culprits are primarily those who deliberately send airplanes to the combat zone or to the restricted flight zone. Or those who ebashat on planes in exercises
            5. 0
              18 July 2014 16: 46
              Quote: Aeneas
              Kornukov, who strongly sanctioned the downing of Koreans, subsequently became Air Force Commander and Hero of Russia.

              Quote: Aeneas
              Rust was not shot down, and everyone "got a hat," inconsistencies, and voluntary-forced resignations.

              These were different eras, Boeing was under Brezhnev, Rust was under Gorbachev. I hope you see the difference. Remember also Powers, everything will fall into place. But there was also Pakhtakor, have you heard?
            6. 11111mail.ru
              +2
              18 July 2014 18: 43
              Quote: Aeneas
              Thought IL-76, was a Boeing. Plus, a solid premium for a downed Ukrainian transporter blurred the mind.

              Two questions for you, a person with a Greek "profile". 1. Did you think the same in 2001? 2. Who then was overshadowed by the award for the downed Tu-154?
              Quote: Aeneas
              the flyer who visually (!) saw the passenger

              I saw a "flyer" (these are your words) silhouette in the night sky, indistinguishable from the RS-135, not following his instructions = warning bursts and evading the pursuer. In 1983, he personally served in D.Vostok, 600 kilometers from the place of the event, although the "techie" himself, but our "pilots" sketched the situation clearly, and the Boeing was a "dummy".
            7. +1
              18 July 2014 19: 37
              Quote: Aeneas
              the flyer who visually (!) saw the passenger

              And where did you hear this joke? Not knowing the topics do not drive the blizzard! Something you have divorced recently! Or is it already time for H?
          8. +14
            18 July 2014 11: 09
            Duck tsez Svidomo idiot!
            1. +1
              18 July 2014 15: 30
              Quote: azbukin77
              Duck tsez Svidomo idiot!

              The moderators, of course, are asleep .. then even the news comes out with headlines in which the words "'re coming out, dill .. "what's next with the VO will be?
              No wonder a lot of adequate left, but came ...
              Aeneas is not Svidomo, but the response to his answers only confirms the party’s general line and the absolutely exact comment at the very top - who decides what is right and what is not.
              Who is against the general line of VO-that is immediately Svidomo .. who does not agree, Svidomo, who argues - the same thing .. Why is this better than there is no censor?
              1. 0
                18 July 2014 18: 48
                Quote: Cristall
                The moderators, of course, are asleep .. then even the news comes out with headlines in which the words "'re coming out, dill .. "what's next with the VO will be?

                The law is such a thing; it’s better to get around than trying to butt it. By the way, I do not see anything offensive in this, well, who is to blame that, for example, the reduction of UkrGaz causes such a reaction.
                Quote: Cristall
                No wonder a lot of adequate left, but came ...

                I completely agree with you, for example _
                Registration Date: July 26 2013 22: 29

                hi
              2. 11111mail.ru
                +1
                18 July 2014 18: 56
                Quote: Cristall
                What is better than no censor?

                Do you want to state your own thoughts on the issue under discussion in the form of intelligible thoughts?
              3. 0
                18 July 2014 19: 51
                Quote: Cristall
                No wonder a lot of adequate left, but came ...

                Gone are those who have nothing to say! And on the account of the one who came, in most cases I will agree!
          9. +22
            18 July 2014 11: 09
            carp (1) IL Today, 10:44 ↑
            Brilliant thought .. !!! Bravo my Israeli brother !!!
            Following your above logic, another basic version arises - it is the missile of the Israeli missile defense system "Kupol" that deviated and for some reason it flew so far .. True, a brilliant version ?? (why not, after all, the United States has shaken the missile defense system against Iranian missiles, which he does NOT have)).
            It’s very bad when civilian planes are shot down .. This is grief and tears and death ..
            1. +11
              18 July 2014 11: 35
              Quote: 222222
              Brilliant thought .. !!! Bravo my Israeli brother !!!
              Following your above logic, another basic version arises - it is the missile of the Israeli missile defense system "Kupol" that deviated and for some reason it flew so far .. True, a brilliant version ?? (why not, after all, the United States has shaken the missile defense system against Iranian missiles, which he does NOT have)).

              then American Aegis should not be removed from the agenda either, which of the American and NATO troughs there are now in the Black Sea ???
          10. +11
            18 July 2014 11: 11
            Dear, if you are such a professional, why aren’t you fighting for the hated Arabs, and if you don’t fight, then the info about the Novorossiysk missile launchers is for you, now I understand for whom this nonsense is designed, and of course people are sorry.
          11. The comment was deleted.
          12. +9
            18 July 2014 11: 13
            You distort much, you studied in the USA? The main version is down. But who shot down? Everything so far points just to the ukrovennye.
            1. +3
              18 July 2014 13: 00
              Wedmak RU Today, 11:13 ↑
              Are you keen on distorting facts, did you study in the USA? ""
              in-about .. about usa. they are quiet .. American know-how and how ..
              "" "
              The US Congress approved in two readings a draft law on the prevention of Russian aggression
              Roman Shcherban
              According to the document, the Republic of Moldova, Ukraine and Georgia receive the status of US allies, without membership in NATO. The project has been submitted to the relevant commission to prepare for adoption in the final reading, reports Espreso.TV.
              ..As stated in the document, the President of the United States has the right to provide the Government of Ukraine at the request of this Government, as necessary and in accordance with the capabilities and needs of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the following defensive means, services and training:

              1. Anti-tank weapons and ammunition.
              2. Anti-aircraft weapons and ammunition.
              3. Crew weapons and ammunition.
              4. Small arms and ammunition, including pistols, submachine guns, assault rifles, grenade launchers and sniper rifles.
              5. Armored vehicles.
              6. High wheeled multi-purpose vehicles.
              7. Inflatable boats.
              8. Bulletproof vests, etc. .... ""
              http://www.gazeta.lviv.ua/world/2014/07/17/32337

              by the way, do not be lazy - go to the site .. there is a "world of discoveries" .. and "revelations" (on the right is a column of headings and what kind !!)))
              http://inosmi.ru/world/20140718/221748931.html#ixzz37oCK8wXJ
              Follow us: @inosmi on Twitter | InoSMI on Facebook
              1. +2
                18 July 2014 13: 17
                High wheeled multi-purpose vehicles.

                What is it?
                This site is familiar to me, I sat there for a year. )))
              2. +1
                18 July 2014 15: 33
                Quote: 222222
                .As stated in the document, the President of the United States has the right to provide the Government of Ukraine at the request of this government, as necessary and in accordance with the capabilities and needs of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the following defensive means, services and training:

                Yes, this form of "Lend Lease" was asked in the parliament of Ukraine.
                I hope no one needs to explain why and why?
          13. +13
            18 July 2014 11: 14
            Your Prosecutor General has already stated that the militia does NOT have a Buk air defense system.
          14. The comment was deleted.
            1. +1
              18 July 2014 11: 38
              Mitya! Well, why? wink
              1. +11
                18 July 2014 11: 45
                Yes, it’s just enraging when They figurate Arabs by lawlessness — to the left and to the right, and they accuse us Russians of unprofessionalism
          15. +17
            18 July 2014 11: 15
            are you dumb eyewitnesses say that there were military aircraft dill nearby! the dispatcher recorded two Ukrainian combat aircraft near the boeng! even if you piss in the eyes - you’ll crush your dill version!
            1. romaskadarv
              -7
              18 July 2014 14: 28
              One such eyewitness saw in Slavyansk how the child was crucified ...
              1. 11111mail.ru
                +1
                18 July 2014 19: 00
                Quote: romaskadarv
                One such eyewitness saw in Slavyansk as a child

                Surname of the eyewitness (One such eyewitness) do not hesitate to name?
                1. 0
                  19 July 2014 00: 37
                  Quote: 11111mail.ru
                  Quote: romaskadarv
                  One such eyewitness saw in Slavyansk as a child

                  Surname of the eyewitness (One such eyewitness) do not hesitate to name?

                  He personally personally saw an interview with a woman several times - he did not remember his last name, she herself was from Western Ukraine, lived in Slavyansk, because of the shelling, the husband joined the militia. She said that in Slavyansk they gathered women and old people and made a demonstration execution: the boy was nailed to the blackboard, made cuts on his stomach with a knife and forced everyone to watch for an hour and a half. After the boy died, the mother was tied to the armored personnel carrier by the legs and dragged him along the streets.
                  They showed last week on NTV, Vesti, Vesti 24. All correspondents reacted to her message incredulously. The woman said that you do not believe in vain, but I saw it myself. I can’t live there anymore, and she cannot return to her relatives, as her mother told her that she was a terrorist and was personally ready to kill her.
                  Objectively, of course, this interview is not confirmed by anything, but they are hidden and do not welcome the presence of truly independent media in the territory they control.
                  1. 11111mail.ru
                    0
                    19 July 2014 07: 23
                    Quote: andj61
                    He personally personally saw an interview several times with woman

                    My request was to clarify the name of the eyewitness. I repeat the question in Russian: an eyewitness (who saw himself with his OWNS), this is a man’s face; if it were a woman, then she would be an EVIDENCE, but not an eyewitness.
          16. The comment was deleted.
          17. soyuz-nik
            +35
            18 July 2014 11: 16
            Quote: carpag
            300 people paid for it with their lives


            Hello! And you don’t care what

            A) Thousands of civilian and military (boys, cannon fodder) die and maim as a result of the actions of the Western-oligarchic Russophobic junta?

            B) the records of the "black boxes" have not yet been examined?

            C) a few minutes before the death of the Boeing 777 nearby were seen ukro-Luftwaffen?

            D) "Interception" of conversations of the militias with "self-exposure" immediately appeared on the Internet?

            E) did the route of this flight run at a considerable distance from the route of the previous days?

            E) Ukraine did not close the sky in this area for civil aviation flights?

            G) In 2008, the most basic version was the attack of the Russian Federation on Georgia?
            1. badger1974
              0
              19 July 2014 08: 15
              complement
              H) urinate in crowds
              I) wet the buses with refugees,
              K) urinate in the Russian Federation without satisfaction
              L) run in the Russian Federation dill, gag (RF kick ass in the back in the DPR, they kill our children)
              M) atheists
              H) and homosexual
              In short KLMё-wet and wet Banderlog, otherwise no how
          18. +11
            18 July 2014 11: 18
            It turns out from your words that in 2001 the Russian air defense, during the exercises of the Ukrainian army shot down a plane of the Russian airline and since then the professionalism of the Russian military has not grown, the Ukrainian has risen to an unprecedented height ...?
          19. withing
            +5
            18 July 2014 11: 28
            You are a great expert however. The main thing is to fart, and where the truth does not matter. And so in everything the style of propaganda of the maydaned Euro-Khokhlovs is being discerned.
          20. 0
            18 July 2014 11: 30
            Confused - Ukrainian
          21. Nikolav
            +3
            18 July 2014 11: 35
            Yes. I remember, due to the high professional level of Ukrainian air defense personnel on the Russian TU-154, how many Israeli citizens died? I do not think that the qualifications of the Ukrozenetiks have increased during this time.
          22. +11
            18 July 2014 11: 35
            Quote: carpag
            The main version is the monstrously low professional level of Russian (Novorossiysk) air defense personnel who are unable to distinguish between military Ukrainian and passenger aircraft. 300 people paid for it with life


            And the main reason for this incident is the shameless impudence of Amer’s slime-eaters, who are ready to sacrifice human lives, and then publicize this action in every way accusing Russia and its allies.
          23. +17
            18 July 2014 11: 35
            .... The main version is a monstrously low professional level of Russian ....... Non-professionals in just a month shot down 10 LA Ruins .. (this is recognized by the US State Department) ... And professionals of the Ukrainian army for 20 years, two civilian liners!
            1. 0
              18 July 2014 18: 29
              Quote: Rokossovsky
              The main version is a monstrously low professional level of Russian ....

              Guess who is who _

            2. 0
              18 July 2014 22: 23
              Well, of course, why bring down the high professionalism of Ukrainian combat aircraft? Here you can pebble. Fly low. And these civilians fly high, without the highest professionalism you will not get it. bully
              1. 0
                20 July 2014 16: 50
                Quote: DrShAN
                Fly low.

                How many times the proofs were laid out _
          24. +11
            18 July 2014 11: 47
            Remind of the four little kids who were blown up by Israeli fighters today with a monstrously high professional level? negative
          25. +6
            18 July 2014 11: 50
            Uncle, are you completely crazy or are you pretending? If only I could read what experts say about the possibilities and practical application of air defense, and even the testimony of the very controller who was flying this plane. Although if the goal is not to find out the truth, but to say the mantras "vsemvinovatputin" - then, of course, there is no need)
          26. sdobrov
            0
            18 July 2014 12: 18
            Well, you and a stupid person ... learn materiel
          27. +1
            18 July 2014 12: 19
            Quote: carpag
            Satisfactory low professional level of Russian (Novorossiysk) air defense personnel who are unable to distinguish between military Ukrainian and passenger aircraft

            :) Well, what a really monstrously low professionalism one must be in order not to distinguish a huge passenger Boeing-777 with a noticeable thermal trail, not just from a small fighter, but at least from the TU-95, well, civilian IL-76, and then .. . :)))
          28. 0
            18 July 2014 12: 27
            Russian air defense officers train regularly, so don’t have to make a noise here
          29. +4
            18 July 2014 12: 31
            Quote: carpag
            The main version is the monstrously low professional level of Russian (Novorossiysk) air defense personnel who are unable to distinguish between military Ukrainian and passenger aircraft.

            Fly from the promised land on a military plane to Rostov, for example, check professionalism ... wink
          30. +1
            18 July 2014 12: 31
            The main version is the monstrously low professional level of Russian (Novorossiysk) air defense personnel who are unable to distinguish between military Ukrainian and passenger aircraft. 300 people paid for it with life

            Our anti-aircraft defense does not concern you so far, so leave your wretched opinion in your wretched brains. And pray to your god that we would all be professionals in the Strategic Missile Forces) I hope I heard a joke about boots and a red button am
          31. +4
            18 July 2014 12: 33
            Quote: carpag
            The main version is the monstrously low professional level of Russian (Novorossiysk) air defense,

            You type like now farted towards Russia? Well this is you, do not suffocate.
          32. +4
            18 July 2014 12: 35
            Only officers work at the BUK installation. And the miner, the worker, with all the desire to get into even a nearby standing plane on the ground, will not be able. So in the morning, drink cold water with sugar is a great help for the head.
          33. +5
            18 July 2014 12: 39
            Quote: carpag
            monstrously low professional level of Russian (Novorossiysk) air defense,

            U ... Wretch you (you) old man. She’s crazy. Monstrously low, is your ability to think, you are a kind of carp.
            1. +3
              18 July 2014 13: 04
              Monstrously low, is your ability to think, you kind of carp.

              The ability to think in carp is degraded due to the lack of an organ responsible for this vital function of the body. Simply put, the brain is absent.
          34. +9
            18 July 2014 12: 48
            And when did you manage to appreciate the professionalism of Russian air defense personnel. I suggest you personally evaluate the training of Russian air defense specialists while sitting in an airplane. Let's see what song you will sing when you get a kick in ... you get a rocket. From my own experience, I will say that more than once I had to perform flights as an air target during air defense checks. "Ochucheniya" indescribable, especially when you are taken on auto-tracking and STR yells even when the sound is off. I am calm for the air defense of the Russian Federation and completely trust them. The professionals of the highest class serve here.
          35. ..Dmitry..
            0
            18 July 2014 13: 05
            Dear carp, do you already have all the facts ?, decryption of boxes, acts of experts?
          36. The comment was deleted.
          37. Vitalka
            0
            18 July 2014 13: 20
            monstrously low professional level of Russian (Novorossiysk) air defense

            Miracle. In 2001, the UKroPVO already shot down Tu-154 due to its "monstrously high professional level" And now there are super specialists from the Maidan in the punitive operation zone.
            It’s useless to lie, to lie - I think the guys from the DPR will not transfer black boxes to either Russia, or the United States, and especially to specialists from the Ruin. The Dutch and Malaysians will understand. This doesn’t give a damn about politics - they will definitely tell whose yellow-black hands it’s
          38. Janis S.U.
            +1
            18 July 2014 13: 24
            It is very unusual to see a frank Nazi next to the nickname (supporting the Ukrainian Bandera-oligarchic fascist junta and frankly lying to the Russian Federation and the republican armed forces of the DPR and LPR, which, without any doubt, is the nazi) is the flag of Israel. Wonderful ...
            1. 0
              18 July 2014 15: 49
              Quote: Janis SU
              It is very unusual to see a frank Nazi next to the nickname (supporting the Ukrainian Bandera-oligarchic fascist junta and frankly lying to the Russian Federation and the republican armed forces of the DPR and LPR, which, without any doubt, is the nazi) is the flag of Israel.

              I'm not thrilled with the Kiev schizunuty, I think that they are to blame for the whole country (ZRAADA)
              I do not think that the Russian Federation is an angel in the flesh (own interests)
              I do not think that the DPR and LPR are the same angels. One field of berries in terms of that Kiev "gave birth" to Novorossiya and "to blame" in the Crimea.
              But at the same time, I have all my opinions, and I don’t blindly sing who is to blame and who is not. And I am sure that this person expressed his opinion. Usually, under the Israeli flag (for example, a professor) very good comments are contrary to the opinion of VO (Russian opinion) - and they give good reasoning (unlike the patriots cheers)
              1. +1
                18 July 2014 16: 56
                Quote: Cristall
                But at the same time, I have all my opinions, and I don’t blindly sing who is to blame and who is not. And I am sure that this person expressed his opinion.

                I agree with your post, but sometimes a radical opinion should be submitted very carefully, gently, slowly. After all, the reaction is predictable, why anger the members of the forum.
              2. 0
                19 July 2014 01: 02
                Quote: Cristall
                But at the same time, I have all my opinions, and I don’t blindly sing who is to blame and who is not.


                I have been on the site since April. I can fully confirm your words. I was always interested in your opinion. I just don’t understand why your opinion, especially in general mood, has drifted from April-May, when everyone expected that Putin would provide REAL help from day to day. After all, then your opinion was somewhat closer to the general mood of the site. Yes and minuses you still almost did not gain three or four weeks ago. Now cheers-winners are almost inaudible, and in April May there were much more.
                PS I will obey - I also often use the words "ukrovoennye", "ukroSMI", etc. as terms that annoy you. But precisely as terms, using which by default you know what it is about. I don’t think there’s an insult. And since I myself have much more reason to be considered a Ukrainian (my great-grandfather is a Zaporozhye Cossack by class) than the majority in the current leadership of Ukraine (but I am sure we are one people), I consider such terms to be acceptable.
          39. +1
            18 July 2014 13: 27
            and you distinguish the Boeing and drying marks on the air defense radar? or so, sweep your tongue?
          40. +1
            18 July 2014 13: 33
            Quote: carpag
            Basic version

            And the only one _ You are terminally ill, Maidan of the brain.
          41. +3
            18 July 2014 14: 00
            Quote: carpag
            The main version is the monstrously low professional level of Russian (Novorossiysk) air defense personnel who are unable to distinguish between military Ukrainian and passenger aircraft. 300 people paid for it with life

            An individual is a zombie, a boar with brains from chocolate bacon. You have ruined the country, the army. As you were pigs, you continue. Continue to ride the hopak with your bare back. Get rid! Europe fuck bude. am
          42. +1
            18 July 2014 14: 02
            How can a plane be shot down from MANPADS at an altitude of 10 thousand meters?
            1. +5
              18 July 2014 14: 29
              Fly nearby, lean out of the window and shoot down. No other way.
              1. 0
                18 July 2014 15: 51
                Quote: Wedmak
                Fly nearby, lean out of the window and shoot down. No other way.

                pressure at that height with an open porthole ??? Yes, you are a suicide, my friend ...
                1. 0
                  18 July 2014 21: 30
                  Not at all. Ordinary mask + cylinder with compressed air. Well and warm things of course. Another question is that at 800 km / h I’ll just be thrown out of the window.
          43. +1
            18 July 2014 14: 05
            provocateur.
          44. duke
            +3
            18 July 2014 14: 13
            Karpagu, I remind you that the plane was shot down and crashed on Ukrainian territory, let me ask you, well, where does the air defense of Russia? So your version is clearly for the toilet, and also the Israeli flag ... the people there have always been distinguished by a sharp mind and quick wits, is it really there ehehe - staff shortage?
          45. 0
            18 July 2014 14: 17
            Deenergists have no normal radars, and at such a height it is impossible to distinguish (visually) a Boeing from any other aircraft.
            But in general, horror, he would shoot from his hunting rifle the one who did it
          46. SVD
            +2
            18 July 2014 14: 42
            Roofing not very smart always has one version! Firstly, military planes flew there, and if the militiamen fired, then the fighter could very well hide behind the liner, secondly, it was certainly not the Novorossians or Russia that changed the liner trajectory, and thirdly, look at this through the eyes of Israel - if such a liner would be deployed by the Palestinians towards Israel and it will be knocked down by your "dome", who is to blame?
          47. +3
            18 July 2014 15: 40
            Quote: carpag
            The main version is the monstrously low professional level of Russian (Novorossiysk) air defense personnel who are unable to distinguish between military Ukrainian and passenger aircraft. 300 people paid for it with their lives

            But you, the Yid muzzles, perfectly distinguish the civilian population from the militants in Palestine. The killers!
          48. +1
            18 July 2014 15: 51
            / carp /

            I am not surprised .., from members of the forum with Israeli flags here you rarely see kind and reasonably fair words addressed to Russia and its citizens, there is always one bile!
          49. +1
            18 July 2014 16: 10
            Provocateur and Troll
        2. +37
          18 July 2014 10: 44
          About the militias - nonsense. Even if they squeezed out several BUK launchers from the brave ukrovoyak, calculations for them need to be prepared for a very long time. For example, Yushchenko delivered BUKs to Georgia from combat duty, and Georgian calculations taught for a very long time, almost a year. I agree, Georgians are stupid. But not so much. As a result, Yushchenko sent down Russian planes on 08.08.08 to calculate ukrovoyak from the Stry air defense regiment.
          1. +2
            19 July 2014 06: 57
            The operator of any Russian air defense system can be trained in combat work for 4-5 days and he will shoot perfectly.
            SAM "Buk-M1" can generally be controlled by one person - the chief (commander) of his crew. With the correct settings of the LDS detection radar receiver, the range operator is practically not needed, the machine automatically locks the target in range. The chief (commander) of the calculation may well work for the operator of angular coordinates (CO), his arms are long enough. Literally, he turns his and the senior operator's seats towards each other and sits down in the center, doing combat work completely alone. Therefore, there is no need to prepare any calculations for the Buk air defense missile system, if there is at least one thinking comrade, then any mountains can be moved.
            The complex has no stoppers and protection systems, you can bring down everything that flies at a distance of up to 35 km and is detected at 100 km at an altitude of up to 22 km of its own sector-wide radar. The complex is fabulous, with the right approach, it can work absolutely autonomously without any radars and control points. Verified personally.
            A mark from the target, like an airliner will be the size of a half-screen indicator (in common people - a bast shoe). It is impossible not to distinguish it from Su-27 or 25, different EPR. Therefore, they shot for sure, if they shot. There could be no accidental launch. When training for real goals, the calculations do not have start-up lock keys, they are seized and stored on the control box in a sealed box so that some do not start.
            When launched, the rocket itself is clearly visible, it is far from small in size, a characteristic pop is heard at the start of its engine, the path of the rocket is visible, the sound of an explosion is heard and it is clearly visible with one's own eyes. Each rocket has its own serial number. Their number is known, there are not so many of them, the places of their storage are known. It is absolutely not difficult to check all Buk missiles of the Ukrainian Armed Forces by number registration. Then there will be a real picture. In addition, you can check all the Buk systems at the time of the recent shooting. You can't hide it, there will be traces of shooting on the car itself. At the same time, debris remains from the rocket. Usually, the seeker remains intact and falls not far in the area of ​​the detonation of the missile warhead. The rocket number and brand are often visible on the wreckage. So it is absolutely possible to check the version with the "Buk", there would be a desire.
        3. +19
          18 July 2014 10: 45
          Now the most important thing is that the Black Boxes that have already been found should be examined in Moscow together with the IAC.
          Then we’ll see who will be better and with whom to ride ...
          1. +2
            18 July 2014 11: 22
            Quote: Oleg Sobol
            Now the most important thing is that the Black Boxes that have already been found should be examined in Moscow together with the IAC.
            Then we’ll see who will be better and with whom to ride ...


            It doesn’t matter ... all the same, the American people will demand the bombing of the DPR with the LPR, and at the same time around Moscow they should smell something ...
          2. 0
            18 July 2014 11: 51
            And what will the boxes give? Only confirmation fayvu
            cell
            C =
            1. +5
              18 July 2014 12: 07
              Boxes will give an accurate picture before the death of the side. On it it will be possible exactly determine what happened to the plane. From here and will continue to "dance".
              1. -2
                18 July 2014 12: 12
                rightly so already and for sure ?? tell you a specialist in aircraft construction ?? from where such confidence there will be the inscription militias or dill on them ?? By the way, experts, is it possible to replace bookmark boxes with bookmarks ??
                1. +1
                  18 July 2014 12: 27
                  right already and for sure ?? say you are an expert in aircraft construction ??

                  No, lover. wassat
                  from where such confidence is there on them will be the inscription militias or dill ??

                  They will record conversations with pilots and sensor readings. That is all the effects on the plane. But who worked, it will be possible to understand when the picture of the incident will be restored momentarily. And here the radar data of the airport, other tracking systems, etc. will come into play.
                  What are you, how small .. everything must be chewed.
                  1. 0
                    18 July 2014 12: 34
                    Quote: Wedmak
                    But who worked, it will be possible to understand when the picture of the incident will be restored momentarily.

                    At the same time, the Poles still claim that their plane in Katyn was forcibly planted
                    1. +6
                      18 July 2014 12: 42
                      At the same time, the Poles still claim that their plane in Katyn was forcibly planted

                      In Katyn? This is something new in Polish mud throwing exercises. I know in Smolensk ... in Katyn ... no, I have not heard.
          3. +1
            18 July 2014 20: 59
            Quote: Oleg Sobol
            Now the most important thing is that the Black Boxes that have already been found should be examined in Moscow together with the IAC.
            Then we’ll see who will be better and with whom to ride ...

            The fact is that on-board self-gunners register 1 negotiation of the crew 2 state of the on-board systems. BUT NEVER JOIN THE INFLUENCE OF EXTERNAL FORCES!
        4. +6
          18 July 2014 10: 49
          Quote: Canep
          The version that the plane crashed as a result of a malfunction on board is not considered by anyone.

          Kiev makes too peremptory statements about the cause of the crash. it can go sideways. and to make unfounded declarations is dumbness to understand. And so who shouts more is to blame
          1. nvv
            nvv
            +2
            18 July 2014 11: 12
            [quote = punk] [quote = Canep] The version that the plane crashed as a result of a malfunction on board is not considered by anyone. [/ quote]
            I do not know
            And what? Is the passenger liner equipped with parachutes? Or were there thrifty passengers?
          2. +3
            18 July 2014 11: 56
            Quote: punk
            Kiev makes too peremptory statements about the cause of the crash. it can go sideways. and to make unfounded declarations is dumbness to understand. And so who shouts more is to blame

            No, Kiev was so deceived that it took all its lies for truth.
            Nah investigation - and so appoint the perpetrators.

            Photos of "Buk" in Torez and on the march have already appeared in the internet. Only stupidity rushing out of all the cracks - Svidomye Internet fighters do not know that "Buk" is a complex, but only one ROM is laid out.
          3. 0
            18 July 2014 12: 12
            They are still shooting, and so the statement will indicate that he was shot down by mangalors. Cheap and cheerful.
            1. +1
              18 July 2014 13: 01
              you need to ask psaki but she always knows nothing
        5. +8
          18 July 2014 10: 52
          Quote: Canep
          Version that the plane crashed

          What is the purpose of the aircraft shot down? “The task of the provocation is quite understandable, the blogger believes - to accuse the militia and the Russian Federation and to reverse the emerging trends in Donbas unsuccessfully”.

          IMHO, the Russian Federation has all the data of objective control - radio exchange, parametric radar data of the picture, RT data and visual images from satellites ...
          If necessary, they will be presented ... to conduct an investigation along the true path ...

          VVP: "Ukraine is responsible for the Malaysia Airlines plane crash," Russian President Vladimir Putin said.
          "We must do everything in our power to an objective picture of what happened has become the property of both our public and the public of Ukraine and the whole world".


          Original article: http://russian.rt.com/article/41370#ixzz37lMWzIgw
        6. +8
          18 July 2014 10: 55
          Quote: Canep
          The version that the plane crashed as a result of a malfunction on board is not considered by anyone.

          scatter of bodies and aircraft debris over several kilometers. unfortunately I can’t select on the map, and so far no one has shown exactly where they were found. in the event of a malfunction on board, the plane crashes intact and only then breaks when it falls. another option is possible - an internal explosion, but this is a planned terrorist attack, and the explosive device should have been placed on the plane at the airport of departure.
          1. +5
            18 July 2014 11: 55
            Kiev makes too peremptory statements about the cause of the crash. It can go sideways. And to make unfounded declarations is dumbness to be sorted out. And so whoever screams the most is to blame

            Good day hi
            I disagree. In the modern world, if 9 people speak "black cat" that he white, 1 person begins to doubt and agrees with them. Especially if he is poking around with a thread in the garden, occasionally intercepting radio messages about the "White Cat" who pissed his neighbor into his slippers.
            "Dill" has been lying for half a year and the whole world is taken at face value .. (I'm not saying that this is their merit, it's just that the world elites want it so, and the "tame" media echo them. A herd is a herd to follow the shepherd.)
            zbros bodies and remains of the aircraft for several kilometers. unfortunately I can’t select on the map, and so far no one has shown exactly where they were found. in the event of a malfunction on board, the plane crashes intact and only then breaks when it falls. another option is possible - an internal explosion, but this is a planned terrorist attack, and the explosive device should have been placed on the plane at the airport of departure.

            If you rely on the article itself,
            “The plane launched several rockets, they exploded somewhere in the sky. Immediately after that, there was a loud bang or explosion. After a few seconds, debris began to fall on us, ”said residents.
            he could explode still in the air.
          2. 0
            18 July 2014 14: 56
            Quote: wasjasibirjac
            moreover, the explosive device was to be placed on the plane


            Something I have not seen information about the pilot's "last radio shouts" recorded on the air. They fell from a height of 10000m for more than a minute. Either the missile hit the cockpit or the explosion is "staged" in the cockpit at a given time. Black boxes will prompt.
        7. +13
          18 July 2014 11: 20

          Boeing deliberately led into the conflict ... I think that this is really a reason for the official invitation of NATO to help the merging Junta win the war (Poles if you remember already there ...). The answer is for Putin, the main thing is not to miss the moment in the Information War and poke the Americans into the created GO ... BUT.
          1. +7
            18 July 2014 12: 42
            I often watch flyradar 24 and know that flights from Europe to Asia took place south of Donetsk along the Volnovakha line-the village of Razdolnoye why it was brought there - a clear provocation
        8. +2
          18 July 2014 12: 14
          Quote: Canep
          The version that the plane crashed as a result of a malfunction on board is not considered by anyone.

          During a terrorist attack, pilots usually have time to at least say something. Black boxes have already been found, they will tell you what happened. And my version of why they shot him down (of which I am sure is unproven, of course, but look for someone who benefits) - you need a truce, as it were, for the work of the commission of inquiry, but in fact for regrouping.
          1. +3
            18 July 2014 12: 22
            Eragon

            In a terrorist attack (if the explosive device’s power is large), when an explosion occurs, its results are instant airplane glider destruction (as a result of a blast wave) and instantaneous depressurization (decompression), which at such a height - almost instant death.

            What do you have time to tell the dispatcher in such a situation?
            1. +1
              18 July 2014 12: 35
              Well, if the plane has maintained controllability, then there is time. As far as I know, the cockpit is separated from the cabin by such a good bulkhead, you just won’t break it.
              1. +1
                18 July 2014 12: 37
                Wedmak

                What controllability?

                The glider, in this case, is destroyed Instantly and people die Instantly.
                1. +2
                  18 July 2014 12: 49
                  Quote: aviamed90
                  The glider, in this case, collapses instantly and people die instantly.

                  To do this, you need to lay a lot of kilograms of explosives in the right places. One grenade in the cabin is not enough.
                  1. +1
                    18 July 2014 13: 30
                    Petrix

                    Конечно.

                    Therefore, this version can be discarded. as unlikely. Given that the flight took off from Amsterdam.

                    I, nevertheless, am inclined to the version of shooting down the side by means of air defense.
                2. +1
                  18 July 2014 13: 07
                  Hmm ... Further quotes from various sources:
                  1. For example, in 2011, during one of Southwest Airlines' scheduled flights, in the skin of a liner flying at an altitude of more than 11 thousand meters, a hole of about 0,5 m² appeared due to the difference between the pressure in the cabin and the atmosphere , but none of the passengers was pulled out, and the hole did not increase in size ...
                  2.B732, en-route, Maui Hawaii, 1988 (AW): On April 28, 1988, on a Boeing 737-200 of Aloha Airlines, an instant depressurization and structural failure occurred while flying at FL 240. About 5.5 meters (or 18 feet) of the cockpit and glider cover separated from the aircraft during the flight. As a result of depressurization, a member of the crew of the flight attendants was mortally wounded. The flight crew performed an emergency descent, landing at Kahului Airport on Maui, Hawaii.
        9. +4
          18 July 2014 12: 24
          The analyst believes that "we can say for sure" that the "Boeing" was brought into the territory of the DNR "consciously." According to the blogger, the course offset is "obviously intentional in nature." And then we read: “The machinations with the Boeing route are completely identical to the well-known provocation with the South Korean Boeing, which the Americans brought into the airspace of the USSR in 1983, after which it was shot down.”

          And there is. This is confirmed by why the Ukrainian Air Force fighters escorted the plane for three minutes, they were specially trapped, just like that, pilots will not leave the course. This is a provocation to blame the Russian Federation and militias.
          1. 0
            18 July 2014 14: 31
            Max_Bauder

            I work as a dispatcher. Yesterday changed from duty.

            According to AMSG, active thunderstorm activity (movement of atmospheric fronts) was ongoing in that area.

            Avoiding the sun to evade thunderstorms is no secret to anyone. This is a common practice.

            And in this case, the route could be changed (with the permission of the dispatcher) for this reason, completely legal.
            1. +1
              18 July 2014 16: 48
              Quote: aviamed90
              According to AMSG, active thunderstorm activity (movement of atmospheric fronts) was ongoing in that area.

              According to you, the storm front, according to others, was nothing.
              And who will tell the truth?
        10. +4
          18 July 2014 12: 29
          Quote: Canep
          The version that the plane crashed as a result of a malfunction on board is not considered by anyone.

          And what is there to consider ??? And a no-brainer, the dill shattered the passenger airliner from the air defense system! In 2001 (if I am not mistaken with the date) it was the same over the Black Sea. And in the same way, at the beginning, the dill was unlocked, but the facts (fragments of the liner skin with characteristic holes from the striking elements of the s-200 air defense missile system) are DIRECT thing! As chemical weapons were taken away from the Syrians, it is also necessary to take away the complexes from the dull-headed dill air defense systems. They have not yet grown to such "toys"!
        11. 0
          18 July 2014 17: 32
          "According to ITAR-TASS, a source in the ranks of the alliance, at the time of the Boeing 777 disaster, there were two AWACS long-range radar detection aircraft on alert over Romania and Poland.
          18 July 2014, 16: 02
          "
          Original article: http://russian.rt.com/article/41484#ixzz37pJS14BL

          Interestingly, over the Boeing’s flight and fall zone, how many US intelligence satellites flew at that moment ??
          1. 0
            18 July 2014 17: 40
            Could these avaks "reach" the area of ​​the fall?
        12. dilyanna
          +1
          18 July 2014 23: 05
          Often I see pictures of the future ... sometimes I don’t understand what they mean. 10 days before the crash, there was a vision that there was a strong boom. In the second consciousness, logic practically does not work, but I was very surprised that the rumble is above the ground.
          I looked into the sky, saw a big beautiful plane, which began to tumble in the sky and before the earth the image was transformed into the image of a woman in a spacesuit, to whom a tree softened a fall-descent.
          Perhaps the decoding in the cause of the crash lies in the image of a woman ... unfortunately for my interest, I could not decipher.
          I will tell the Mockingbirds, rest the guys. Perhaps someone who understands aviation can say what this sign means, who the customer is.

          By the way, there was a similar vision before the destruction of the aircraft, when about 40 people died.
          I was inside the aircraft with a vision, I was surprised that the location of the seats for passengers was not like in ordinary airplanes / I did not fly even once, I saw a photo from the video that represents a passenger room.
          People with grayish skin were arranged as if reclining in rows. Beside them were many boxes ...
          On this I will stop my retelling of what I saw. Good evening everyone !!!
        13. 0
          20 July 2014 16: 55
          And will not be.
          Someone figured out what really happened to the Twin Towers? How did they not find a single corpse of passengers and the remains of aircraft structures, but did they find intact passports of "terrorists"? !!!
          So it is now: the reasons are established, and the perpetrators are appointed.
          And long before the last start of the unfortunate Boeing ...
      2. +5
        18 July 2014 12: 32
        The message to compatriots Poroshenko ends with a familiar remark:

        "Glory to Ukraine!"
        In the recent past, some fellow friends ended their speeches with the words -Hail Hitler. All this reminds me very much that all this already happened.
        1. +2
          18 July 2014 12: 37
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          "Glory to Ukraine!"

          This is their ritual like that. They sit on the rugs and howl
      3. 0
        18 July 2014 13: 18
        The truth is unlikely to be voiced. The wreckage didn’t have time to fall, and all the parties concerned had already appointed those responsible. So I don’t trust either Russian, American, or even less Ukrainian "experts." One can only speculate, with varying degrees of probability. And the official protocol ... but who will order the commission, this tone will be in the protocol.
      4. Atanda
        +2
        18 July 2014 16: 32
        Another version:
      5. 0
        18 July 2014 18: 01
        here is such an option
        1. 0
          18 July 2014 18: 51
          Quote: vezunchik
          here is such an option

          This is not an option, but 5 kopecks per wallet for the main and only true version of the killed "broiler". How and who always plays cards with “broilers” (crashing into houses or “flying wrong”)?
          Correctly "mattress covers"!
          And to stuff bodies with the latest passports for each of the bodies, it’s quite a waste of time. Regarding the "broiler" torn to shreds, with a probability of 100500%, the striking elements (from the "Buk", S-200 or S-300) may not be found.
          Once GDP said: She drowned ( crying Everlasting memory).
          Paraphrase: He burst (broiler).

          Then we all begin to prepare conservation, salt, sugar, crackers and TD.
          We go to the gym and do martial arts - MASSIVE!
          Getting ready to repeat the exploits of grandfathers and great-grandfathers.
          Fashington is waiting!
      6. Ujin61
        0
        18 July 2014 19: 11
        The most tragic will happen if the Boeing is not shot down and there was a terrorist attack on board, to what extent confrontation can only be guessed.
      7. -1
        18 July 2014 19: 14
        Quote: Pro100
        There are many versions

        At the same time, Putin was flying through Poland along the same corridor.
        And here is a photo of a downed plane. Is there any similarity?
        1. 0
          18 July 2014 19: 19
          mdaa ... business ....

          muddy story and feel muddy and will remain
        2. 0
          20 July 2014 19: 15
          E-mine, does anyone in the era of radar and high-speed computers believe that the visual similarity of airplanes played some role ???!
      8. 0
        19 July 2014 06: 08
        But is it not the Boeing of Malaysia that they searched for and did not find? These American naughty girls can come up with this. I heard a comment saying that the corpses are not the first freshness. Like this.
      9. 0
        19 July 2014 23: 17
        This version seems to me the most plausible! Who benefits? Except for Kalomoysky, to nobody!
    2. +49
      18 July 2014 10: 29
      Another version.
      1. pahom54
        +20
        18 July 2014 10: 46
        for Pro100 Igor
        Too complicated and abstruse, while everything is made easier, as was done.
        Don’t go to the fortuneteller-fortuneteller - they brought down dill, since Russia doesn’t need it either, and the militias, in addition, have nothing ...
        The goal is one - a provocation. As we all see, everything is turning upside down with only one goal - to denigrate, hurt, accuse Russia of aggressive behavior, unleash a war with it, and introduce NATO troops to the territory of the country ...
        1. +13
          18 July 2014 11: 45
          Well yes. For four months he was hidden in a hangar with passengers, and then they decided to let him go over Ukraine. Nonsense. You can determine what kind of machine it is by unit numbers.
          1. 0
            18 July 2014 11: 51
            and what about the hangar is something super complicated ??? yes and something is not visible sobbing relatives around the world. Many identified by numbers in America after September 11 ??
          2. +2
            18 July 2014 12: 43
            Quote: sever.56
            For four months he was hidden in a hangar with passengers, and then they decided to let him go over Ukraine. Nonsense. You can determine what kind of machine it is by unit numbers.

            I would not rule out this version at all. Because it will be necessary to contact Boeing for the numbers of the units, and this is a US military company - they can concoct any document there.
            1. +1
              18 July 2014 14: 44
              The numbers of all units are available from the operating company.
          3. zzz
            zzz
            0
            18 July 2014 12: 44
            Quote: sever.56
            Well yes. For four months he was hidden in a hangar with passengers, and then they decided to let him go over Ukraine. Nonsense. You can determine what kind of machine it is by unit numbers.


            Why not? After all, then I read somewhere that they could use biological weapons on board .... During this time, they could replace everything everywhere and come up with a legend for everyone ...
          4. 0
            18 July 2014 12: 58
            Quote: sever.56
            You can determine what kind of machine it is by unit numbers.

            Harsh! This is the version for the suckers who grab anything. Now there will be plenty of such "versions". This is done in order to distract part of the public (so that people think, what should they believe in?) From the real facts and conclusions. And to fool as many people as possible in order to hide the truth deeper and exaggerate the anti-Russian version.
          5. 0
            18 July 2014 14: 16
            In addition, relatives who arrived in Malaysia and the speech of the Minister of the Netherlands!
        2. 0
          18 July 2014 14: 14
          This is the "plan B" Poroshenko, which he boasted of _ ugliness! am
      2. +10
        18 July 2014 10: 51
        Quote: Pro100
        Another version.

        Enchanting nonsense, according to you in the Netherlands he was escorted by theater relatives, the anthropometric data of passengers do not match, namely, the large presence of children's bodies, as you explain, and most importantly, all units and elements of the aircraft have identification numbers. Why post nonsense.
        1. +2
          18 July 2014 12: 05
          enchanting nonsense, dear, you write, these September 11 attacks were made for such people. Have you personally seen mourners? Have you seen the same people crying and sobbing after the crash? ? I do not claim that this version is final but it has a place to be.
      3. +2
        18 July 2014 10: 52
        It is unlikely that all the details of the aircraft are numbered, too many discrepancies will be on the discovered facts. Moreover, the recorders are going to send to the Russian Federation, and the Russian Federation will get access to the fallen Boeing faster than anyone else.
      4. DNX1970
        +4
        18 July 2014 10: 57
        The whole horror of this version is that it can be true!
      5. +2
        18 July 2014 10: 57
        As a version has the right to live, but no more. Tea is not 60 years of the XX century. Execution is not that problematic, just not possible. Nodes and mechanisms have their own unique numbers. Yes, and other points.
        Most likely, the level of Bukov's service personnel is very weak and due to the excitement around the border violation by Russian pilots - “here, here, the Russians will come to bomb us,” so the hand wavered ...
      6. +5
        18 July 2014 10: 59
        For some reason, I also have a suspicion of the allegedly missing Boeing, they were preparing a provocation intensively and then played it out, let's see what happens, after the explosion of the Towers, the Americans occupied a lot of countries, like Hitler, after setting the Reichstag on fire, became the dictator, the methods are the same and the goals are the same.
        1. 0
          18 July 2014 14: 28
          The main thing is not to forget the finale of the whole story, well, set fire to the Reichstag and burned itself. Undoubtedly this is a diversion of Americans. I’m more interested in the fact that the blogger posted a picture of this aircraft with the words like what was the last time you saw it !?
      7. +10
        18 July 2014 10: 59
        Quote: Pro100
        Another version.

        And if you turn on your head? Where did the passengers and the plane that actually were supposed to fly to Malaysia go then?
        For the gifted I can explain that it was return flight, i.e. the same board flew to Amsterdam from its home port of registry, the crew changed (or more likely) or rested, after which the board went on a return flight to the house. How did the missing horseradish appear in Amsterdam? Does it know when the board, unaccompanied by dispatchers, walked half the world, mysteriously sat down, and then mysteriously flew with phantoms as passengers on the last last trip?
        1. 0
          18 July 2014 11: 07
          September 11 attacks to help you how to do it.
        2. +3
          18 July 2014 11: 12
          Quote: inkass_98
          How did the missing horseradish appear in Amsterdam? Does it know when the board, unaccompanied by dispatchers, has passed the half of the world, mysteriously sat down, and then mysteriously flew with phantoms as passengers on the last last trip?

          And how did the missing Boeing “mysteriously” disappear in the middle of a densely populated area?
      8. +8
        18 July 2014 11: 06
        I repeat, but I wrote about this in a comment in the spring: Here is my spring comment on this topic:
        SRC P-15 SU March 16, 2014 18:21 | The results of the week. “Bonjour to you in your hut”
        Quote: v53993
        Speaking of airplanes. It would not have turned out that the Boeing that disappeared was stolen specially so that it would later appear over the territory of Crimea or Russia, in the hope that our air defense would bring it down. Then the West will come off to us in full, introducing us to the whole world as an aggressor. How do you like this paranoid point of view? I hope I am mistaken in my suspicions, but everything is too clean with this Boeing. In advance I am preparing to add up the cons. recourse wrote in this comment in the spring:
        1. 0
          18 July 2014 12: 39
          In your version, I do not understand one point. How can we explain the appearance of the missing 4 months ago over the territory of Crimea or Russia? Where did he hang out all this time, and even with passengers on board?
      9. 0
        18 July 2014 11: 09
        If you look at the shots from the crash site, you will see that there part of the bodies did not burn at all and was not even fragmented. It is possible passports from their personal belongings.
      10. legionary
        +4
        18 July 2014 11: 10
        I, too, have the same thoughts about the missing airliner and passengers. BUT I also had a question that the remains of people or their bodies were not shown, or am I mistaken!?
        1. Nikolav
          0
          18 July 2014 11: 43
          legionary

          Not shown due to considerations of political correctness. Ukraine is Europe.
        2. -1
          18 July 2014 14: 13
          the bodies were shown, it was possible to see them on P24, and on ren-tv they generally "distinguished themselves"; they showed many bodies / torn-off parts in close-up, then "came to their senses" - "the children had to be removed from the screens." it was about midnight

          according to the passports there was already a version, there the group’s tour could fly, and also the delegation to the congress flew, in this case the senior group could have the documents in the suitcase
          1. +2
            18 July 2014 16: 43
            Quote: iwakura
            according to the passports there was already a version, there the group’s tour could fly, and also the delegation to the congress flew, in this case the senior group could have the documents in the suitcase

            You are kind of transport hike only to the horse from the tail come up.
            Passport control at all international airports, and on local lines, is built on the principle of One hail and a pair of hands with one document.
      11. 0
        18 July 2014 13: 24
        Super version !!! Possible, but very difficult ...
      12. 0
        18 July 2014 13: 34
        And then such a question, is it possible to record the information in advance on the flight recorder, let’s say they will now look at what they need there.
        1. 0
          19 July 2014 08: 37
          Theoretically possible. A conventional tape recorder that records on a thin metal wire. We have it called MS-15. Even during crew training, work recordings can be made. If you set the right time on the equipment and lose the situation, then there will be a corresponding record.
      13. +4
        18 July 2014 14: 41
        I already wrote in another thread, but I repeat. It is technically not possible to replace one side with another. All parts of the airframe, units, power plants, pipelines, blocks of aviation, electronic and other equipment are marked. The numbers of all aircraft units are included in the on-line documentation (forms (with formulas), passports and labels for aircraft), and there is also a catalog with manufacturers of aircraft and equipment. Therefore, if you do not drown the plane in the ocean, then you can always identify it.
        1. 0
          18 July 2014 16: 46
          Quote: Andrey55
          Therefore, if you do not drown the plane in the ocean, then you can always identify it.

          Oh, hold seven!
      14. +1
        18 July 2014 18: 53
        here, too, such a thought visited .. and another statement on the radio confused that, like, one Malaysian family lost relatives in both disasters with Boeings .. request What is the likelihood of such a combination of events? Zero point hell. Koroch, I’m Stanislavsky.
        Most likely this is the same plane with corpses prepared in advance on board. He flew where necessary, shot down those who should, "Russia is to blame for everything."
    3. +3
      18 July 2014 10: 30
      The end of the "peacemaker" of the State Department with the Kiev department of the CIA, the evidence cannot be hidden on the face ...
      1. +12
        18 July 2014 10: 44
        Quote: mig31
        The end of the "peacemaker" of the State Department with the Kiev department of the CIA, the evidence cannot be hidden on the face ...

        I don’t know, I don’t know ... now it is urgent for the whole world to send them on foot on an erotic tour, and it should be clearly stated that those who did not give Americans the right to speak from the whole world as a last resort
        Meanwhile, the White House sent its investigators to Ukraine.

        According to ITAR-TASS, US Vice President Joseph Biden believes that the Malaysian plane was deliberately shot down.

        Biden said that the Ukrainian authorities accepted the US offer of assistance in investigating the circumstances of the disaster. According to him, American experts will arrive in Ukraine.

        It is necessary that the militias not let the American mongrels and let only international experts in. It is more difficult to manipulate their opinion, and the Americans will draw their "test tube" and will again shake it as it suits them.


        Govnetsa began to boil from another continent
        Australian Prime Minister blames Boeing for fall on Russia
        Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott has accused Russia of supplying the militia with an anti-aircraft missile system, from which the Malaysian Boeing 777 was shot down. The Sydney Morning Herald reports.

        This chudillo with a different letter has already found the "guilty" turd clairvoyant.
        1. +5
          18 July 2014 11: 23
          Govnetsa began to boil from another continent
          Australian Prime Minister blames Boeing for fall on Russia
          Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott has accused Russia of supplying the militia with an anti-aircraft missile system, from which the Malaysian Boeing 777 was shot down. The Sydney Morning Herald reports.
          This chudillo with a different letter has already found the "guilty" turd clairvoyant.

          This is where it climbs? A miracle in feathers, would have sat already, would not cower, the echidna striped.
          1. +2
            18 July 2014 12: 37
            Hurry guy, summed up the time difference. He opened the bag a little earlier than the others. It's only the beginning. But now they are checking the clock and will blow in unison. That's for sure.
      2. +4
        18 July 2014 10: 46
        The end of the "peacemaker" of the State Department with the Kiev department of the CIA, the evidence cannot be hidden on the face ...

        How to hide. In the United States, they still believe that they were attacked by terrorists on September 11th.
        Whoever controls the ball (herd) in the hands of the media - modern realities ...
        Somewhere already slipped info about the Polish military and military equipment, who arrived at the port of Odessa, is not it?
      3. 0
        18 July 2014 10: 58
        Who wants to learn from first hand, read the article at http://voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/2961-sbityy-malayziyskiy-boing-777-post-ob
        novlyaetsya.html
        Pay particular attention to 0-26 in the chronology of the article. I have already double-checked it for myself (I translated the source from Spanish). Everything is very clear. And we must not let these facts disappear.
        1. +1
          18 July 2014 11: 20
          already no article

          "Attention, error detected
          No publications were found on the site at this address, or you do not have access to view information at this address. "
          1. 0
            18 July 2014 12: 05
            http://voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/2961-sbityy-malayziyskiy-boing-777-post-ob


            novlyaetsya.html

            Just checked in place. Maybe updated? Check again. And copy the address fully - for publication, it is divided into two parts for some reason.

            Link to screen clipping of an important moment http://iceimg.com/I_nstU8c/2014-07-18-140841
            And a source in Spanish https://twitter.com/spainbuca
            1. +2
              18 July 2014 12: 21
              Opachki, this page was deleted on Twitter !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He personally watched in the morning! (((((((U.r.o.dy! Yeah, too early to put the arguments on the network. If only the dispatcher remained alive! Here it is ova democracy in all its glory! Here's another article with a link to this twitter account http://inosmi.ru/world/20140718/221741366.html And here is the same http://www.yaplakal.com/forum3/topic861957.html There is still a copy of the tweet here https://pbs.twimg.com/media /BsxEf5pIgAEH59i.jpg On the thief and the hat is on !!!
            2. 0
              18 July 2014 12: 31
              And even here it is discussed
              http://echo.msk.ru/news/1361838-echo/comments.html
    4. +18
      18 July 2014 10: 32
      Prosecutor General of Ukraine Vitaliy Yarema said that the militia never captured the Buk and S-300 missile systems. About this, as reported by Ukrainska Pravda, he reported to the country's president Petro Poroshenko after the crash of the Malaysian Boeing that happened the day before.

      “After the passenger plane was shot down, the military reported to the president that the terrorists did not have our Buk and S-300 missile systems. There was no capture of this weapon, ”Yarema stressed.

      http://lenta.ru/news/2014/07/18/yarema/
      What did the Fashington helmsmen think when they took Salozhuev as accomplices? "Dumb and dumber-2".
      1. +8
        18 July 2014 10: 48
        Quote: Rattenfanger
        "Dumb and dumber-2".

        Let's remember who shouts the loudest: "Stop the thief!"?
        If Poroshenko said: “Today, terrorists killed almost 300 people with one shot. Among them are women, children, citizens of many countries of the world ... They shot down a peaceful passenger plane of Malaysian Airlines, which means killers must be sought in Kiev.
      2. -8
        18 July 2014 10: 59
        Quote: Rattenfanger
        Prosecutor General of Ukraine Vitaliy Yarema said that the militia never captured the Buk and S-300 missile systems. About this, as reported by Ukrainska Pravda, he reported to the country's president Petro Poroshenko after the crash of the Malaysian Boeing that happened the day before.

        “After the passenger plane was shot down, the military reported to the president that the terrorists did not have our Buk and S-300 missile systems. There was no capture of this weapon, ”Yarema stressed.

        http://lenta.ru/news/2014/07/18/yarema/
        What did the Fashington helmsmen think when they took Salozhuev as accomplices? "Dumb and dumber-2".

        Do you believe what you want or the facts? You never know what they write there, you don’t believe them when they write about self-immolation or air conditioning. The presence of the Buk militia is a fact, but its condition is not known. If the militia knocked down this Boeing, my attitude towards them will not change, but tragedy but maybe it’s a setup, they walked alongside them and fired, capture the target, lose the target again capture - launch, the qualifications of the militia are hardly enough to work on such a complex.
        1. +7
          18 July 2014 11: 52
          Quote: Pajama
          Do you believe what you want or the facts? You never know what they write there, you don’t believe them when they write about self-immolation or air conditioning. The presence of the Buk militia is a fact, but its condition is not known.

          somehow it slipped that the radar station is faulty (it lacks some units without which it will not work at all) plus a defeated gearbox, and without these components the air defense system is not only useless, it is not working.
          SAM "Buk-M1"
          The Buk-M1 air defense missile system includes the following weapons:
          Command post 9С470M1;
          9S18M1 Kupol-M1 detection and targeting station;

          Self-propelled firing installation 9А310M1;
          Start-charging installation 9A39.
          From left to right

          From right to left.
      3. +1
        18 July 2014 11: 12
        Still more cynical than you think. This phrase is to accuse Russia of delivering BUK complexes to militias and to finally distance itself from what happened in the eyes of the West
      4. Megazorg
        +5
        18 July 2014 11: 17
        Quote: Rattenfanger
        What did the Fashington helmsmen think when they took Salozhuev as accomplices? "Dumb and dumber-2".

        Uh, no. They tend to air defense systems delivered from Russia. Type "they have no our air defense systems, but there are still someone else."
    5. Fuse
      +10
      18 July 2014 10: 34
      MALAYSIA AIRLINES PUBLISHED THE LIST OF DIED PASSENGERS OF THE CRASHED “BOING” - there are 3 children, not 80. Do not spread dill!
      1. +9
        18 July 2014 10: 48
        Quote: Fuse
        MALAYSIA AIRLINES PUBLISHED THE LIST OF DIED PASSENGERS OF THE CRASHED “BOING” - there are 3 children, not 80. Do not spread dill!

        Yes, even though there is one - for such atrocities among the guilty, to rip off the eggs without anesthesia and file the teeth with a file.
      2. +1
        18 July 2014 11: 01
        Quote: Fuse
        MALAYSIA AIRLINES PUBLISHED THE LIST OF DIED PASSENGERS OF THE CRASHED “BOING” - there are 3 children, not 80. Do not spread dill!

        give a link, and about 80 children spoke in our media
    6. PLO
      +5
      18 July 2014 10: 34
      US intelligence agencies next to the liner spotted on radars the thermal trail of a ground-to-air missile.

      it was necessary to give them such nonsense request
      1. +2
        18 July 2014 11: 01
        It’s good that at least a group of bears in ushanka with a balalayka behind their backs, forming a line leaving towards the Russian border, was not detected.
      2. +1
        18 July 2014 11: 24
        Yeah and the United States, just as they knew, they followed the satellite in this territory ... What the hell were they looking for there at all? on the other side of the planet ??
    7. +2
      18 July 2014 10: 35
      in short - deja vu - Korean Boeing was not found - but the Malaysian was found (maybe Psaki simply did not specify in the office ...) - and the "Evil Empire" is to blame! In my opinion, it is definitely the fault of the junta - why is the flight zone not closed! ??? sorry for the people who died ...
      1. +1
        18 July 2014 11: 07
        The flight area is closed to a height of 7100. Above you can.
        1. +1
          18 July 2014 12: 00
          Well, if they now say that the "terrorists" were armed with a Buk air defense system, and they were aware - why not close the zone! ??? (by the way - not 7100 - but 7600)
    8. The comment was deleted.
      1. -9
        18 July 2014 11: 13
        Causal all the same ... Ukrainians shot at a target, and hit a plane. No one blames the Ukrainian Air Defense Forces for intent and deliberate downfall. But for example, Koreans, or Iranian Americans, were shot down intentionally. Of course, there were errors in the decision-making algorithm (incorrect threat analysis), but from the very beginning the target designation was carried out on civilian aircraft, the targets were destroyed.
    9. +11
      18 July 2014 10: 37
      Parashenko & Company will never recognize that this is their doing. They will shout before shit about missiles launched from Russian territory, air defense systems delivered from Russia to militia, missile attack from a Russian fighter and the like. If they squeeze it completely, they will freeze out like they did 13 years ago with an airplane shot down over the Black Sea.
      1. +3
        18 July 2014 11: 02
        Quote: ZAVal
        If pressed completely

        If they squeeze, then Petya can safely start the hair from his railroad station on the bald spot of Yaytsenyukha and transplant the experience of prison life in Lyashka. By the way, the heroic Minister of Defense of Ukraine can still begin to rehearse a parade in Sevastopol - with a broom and as a salary.
      2. 0
        18 July 2014 11: 12
        Yes, actually no one recognizes this, officially the case will remain unsolved. I think so.
    10. +5
      18 July 2014 10: 38
      This reason is just to distract attention from the defeat of dill troops in the boilers ..........
      1. +6
        18 July 2014 10: 42
        Quote: kostik1301
        This reason is just to distract attention from the defeat of dill troops in the boilers ..

        That's why they shout about a ceasefire, they want to redeploy and strengthen.
    11. +7
      18 July 2014 10: 40
      if you believe the flight route for 3 days, a strange deviation, flew too far
      1. +2
        18 July 2014 11: 13
        Just south, they say, the storm front was on, so they turned north. There is such an explanation.
      2. +2
        18 July 2014 13: 48
        At an altitude of 10100m, a lightning front is not dangerous.
        1. +1
          18 July 2014 14: 36
          motorized rifle

          Thunderstorm clouds can reach 10-12 thousand meters.

          Even Wikipedia has this information.
    12. Nikolav
      0
      18 July 2014 10: 41
      Yes. You won’t understand without a bottle. In 1983, because of the South Korean liner, the world war almost began ...
      1. Nikolav
        +3
        18 July 2014 11: 06
        "Before they take away our phones or smash my head, HE WAS KNOWN BY KIEV"

        yurasumy blog
    13. +6
      18 July 2014 10: 43
      In general, everything is clear, amers do not care who specifically shot down the Boeing, because for them everything is already clear and understandable, as well as with "Russia's treacherous attack on Georgia." The blame is on whoever the State Department points out, which means it's time to "extinguish" Russia and help the Independent with weapons and possibly your own troops ...
    14. +6
      18 July 2014 10: 44
      Of course, Russia will be blamed for everything, especially the Americans and pocket dogs in the person of the Poles and the Baltic states.
      1. +6
        18 July 2014 11: 17
        Lithuanians and Poles are degenerates of the human race — smelling dogs, notorious bastards!
    15. +4
      18 July 2014 10: 44
      Old amerikosovsky scenario. The provocation, after which Russia is accused of all mortal sins and the legalization of military assistance to the Ukrainians.
      1. Irtysh
        +4
        18 July 2014 14: 32
        No assistance to the Ukrainian regime will help. They can be pumped up with ANY effective technique. But WHO will control IT? It will be like in Georgia: "Bring back our hummers !!!! Whimper-whimper ...".

        Everything that falls into the hands of the Ukrainian will be stolen, sold, broken. Karma, however.
    16. +6
      18 July 2014 10: 45
      Whoever says it looks like a big setup for Russia and New Russia, Americans are involved in love.
    17. 0
      18 July 2014 10: 48
      Well, the junta and their tanned owner will find it difficult to get out. Russia and the EU have enough means of objective control of the database zone.
    18. +5
      18 July 2014 10: 52
      As all coincided, the complete encirclement of Ukrov troops, i.e., the close finale of the defeat and the exit for the liberation of New Russia, brought down the Boeing. Somehow all this is muddy.
    19. +6
      18 July 2014 10: 53
      I wrote about passports yesterday. Look brand new from the needle.
      1. +1
        18 July 2014 12: 10
        I’ll try to explain to you that passports all over the world, except Russia, are needed to cross the border with another state, within the European Union there are enough rights or an insurance policy. The passport is in the closet. And in Russia, you can require a passport right on the street. And yet, updating your passport is enough expensive pleasure (cherished) and changed once every ten years.
    20. +1
      18 July 2014 10: 53
      Khokhlov horseradish admit that they shot down a plane !!! Everything is already being blamed on Russia, but what the hell they get !!! Most likely there was an attempt to bring down Putin’s plane with dill !!! But as always, a little wrong !! People are just sorry ...
      1. +8
        18 July 2014 12: 48
        Kill the board 1. IMPOSSIBLE !!! This is not some kind of military transport. There is such equipment installed that any rocket will go crazy. EW just burns all the guidance electronics. Yes, and unaccompanied by such aircraft do not fly. Want is not harmful. Just that hohlopoptsi confused, probably themselves do not understand. Shoot down a boeng with one beech missile is possible but difficult. With 200 is more suitable. Two hundredth has more shrapnel charge, But it is much easier to break it with air-to-air missiles, moreover eyewitnesses speak of several explosions and one clap. And then debris rained down. And if the launch was from the ground by mistake, how was the missile aimed at the target by mistake? As her ROC AC (auto tracking and radio illumination of the target) passed, such work is performed either by the guidance operator or by the capture operator. It was a systematic murder. With the work of the entire calculation of the complex. Now we need to decipher the recorders, and not let the Khokhlofritsy get dumped from the boiler. All the same, somehow it turns out in the Christmas tree, they just start to jam them as some kind of crap happens. And Poroshenko should be hung by the legs like Musolini. DEATH OF FASCIS-FREEDOM TO DONBASS.
        1. +1
          18 July 2014 14: 41
          Unclean

          "Killing board 1. IMPOSSIBLE !!! This is not some kind of military transport. There is such equipment that any missile will go crazy. EW will simply burn out all the guidance electronics. And such aircraft do not fly without an escort. Wanting is not harmful."

          You do not own the information, dear!

          Read at your leisure "Instructions for providing flights letter" A "in civil aviation" (if you find it on the network) or ask at the nearest airport.

          "It is possible to shoot down a boeeng with one beech missile, but it is difficult."

          Is this a non-maneuvering aerial target ???

          What is the difficulty?
    21. The comment was deleted.
    22. emotion
      -2
      18 July 2014 10: 58
      a couple of days ago in Russia 2 some person from the DNI or LC performed (I don’t remember my last name and position), I gave an interview in a Moscow studio. he was asked about the downed on the eve of an. he said that they shot him down at a height of 5,5. the presenter noted that, they say, one cannot get out of the PZRK at such an altitude, and does this not mean that the militias have more serious weapons, to which the representative of the DNI (LC) smiled and said that he could not disclose such information.
      1. +4
        18 July 2014 11: 19
        This is empty talk, but here are the facts: the presence of the Ukrainian Buk complexes near Donetsk, plus Ukraine's extensive "experience" of shooting down civilian planes over its territory.
    23. dgm
      dgm
      +21
      18 July 2014 10: 58
      1. The Malaysian "Boeing" was brought into the territory of the DPR deliberately, the shift in the course that took it to the territory of the theater of operations is obviously deliberate. The machinations with the Boeing route are completely identical to the well-known provocation with the South Korean Boeing, which the Americans brought into Soviet airspace in 1983, after which it was shot down.
      2. Boeing worked only with Ukrainian dispatchers - Kiev and Dnipropetrovsk, and it was there that the corridor was displaced north of the usual route. Russia or the militia could not send him to the conflict zone.
      3. The Boeing was accompanied by 2 junta Air Force planes (there are discrepancies - some sources write about the Su-25, others about the Su-27) one of them was seen near the crash site of the Boeing leaving for Debaltseve. What happened to the second plane is not known, the observed 2 parachutes in the area of ​​the Boeing crash may well belong to the pilots of the junta Air Force. Earlier, there were unverified reports of downed Su-2 and AN-25, but there is no significant confirmation of this. The shooters did not officially make any statements on this matter.
      4. The Spanish dispatcher who monitored the Boeing confirmed the fact of the presence of Ukrainian aircraft near the Boeing, as well as the very fact of the firing of the aircraft by the junta, which, according to him, was confirmed by the Ukrainian military, who claimed that they did not know exactly who gave the order (this is where the versions about Kolomoisky and Avakov came from). The fact of the presence of Ukrainian planes next to the Boeing, the testimony of the Spanish dispatcher and the testimony of an eyewitness to the Boeing crash allows us to reliably establish the guilty party.
      5. How exactly the Boeing was shot down before the black boxes were opened is unlikely to be established - at the moment the militias have found 8 out of 12. Among the versions, in addition to the most obvious - air-to-air missiles (which were mentioned by a number of American sources), there is version of the Boeing's collision with the junta's plane, as well as the version voiced by the Russian media that the Boeing was allegedly confused with Putin's plane. It is also completely unclear with 3 explosions in the air, which were observed by an eyewitness.
      6. Regarding the version that the planes were shot down from the Buk, then, as the physical calculations show, even if the militia completely brought the captured Buk into operation (its current combat effectiveness and tactical position are unknown), they trained the crew and locked it in air defense complex and deployed it in the Snezhnoe-Torez area, then the Boeing was supposed to fall on the territory of the Russian Federation. But during the shelling from the Ukrainian "Buk" (of which there are many in the Donbas), the "Boeing" just fell on the territory of the DPR.
      In general, there is a rather crudely worked out provocation, when the passenger Boeing was deliberately sent (from Kiev or Dnepropetrovsk - still to be clarified) to the zone of military conflict, where it proceeded, accompanied by two junta aircraft, after which it was destroyed (with a high degree of probability there in addition to the Boeing, one more plane died, from where the parachutes actually came from). Further, an information pumping mechanism was launched in order to accuse the militias of the death of the plane, which the junta specially brought into the sky of the DPR. The network began to actively throw in fakes that the plane was shot down by the militias, that new sanctions should be introduced against the Russian Federation and the introduction of NATO troops should begin.
      The task of the provocation is quite understandable - to blame the militias and the Russian Federation and reverse the unfortunate trends in the Donbass. Since the provocation was made very clumsily and white threads stick out from everywhere (even on foreign resources they reasonably indicate that the main culprits are in Kiev), then its effect will be limited in my opinion.
      1. +14
        18 July 2014 11: 08
        First, the source must be specified. No need to plagiarize.
        Here is the source: http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1676992.html.
        Secondly, this version is reviewed. That is, you first need to read the review, and then comment.
      2. +2
        18 July 2014 11: 25
        Quote: dgm
        Boeing "was accompanied by 2 junta Air Force planes (there are discrepancies - some sources write about the Su-25, others about the Su-27)

        Su-25 can be excluded. He will not reach a height of 10 km.
        Quote: dgm
        The fact of the presence of Ukrainian aircraft next to the Boeing, the testimony of the Spanish dispatcher and the testimony of an eyewitness to the Boeing crash allows us to reliably establish the guilty party.

        I do not agree. There is no evidence base. If the plane was shot down by an air-to-air or air-to-air missile, then some damaging elements + the nature of the damage should have remained in the structure. If 777 was shot down from an aircraft gun, then this can also be determined by the nature of the damage. So we are waiting for the conclusions of the commission.
      3. +2
        18 July 2014 11: 27
        It is unlikely that it will be possible to establish exactly how the Boeing was shot down before the black boxes were opened - at the moment the militia found 8 out of 12.

        8 out of 12 what? The box is only TWO! One speech, the second parametric.
      4. +1
        18 July 2014 11: 36
        Who can answer a simple question: where did the ATC come from at the Borispol EU Center Spanish dispatcher?
      5. +2
        18 July 2014 12: 23
        Quote: dgm
        found 8 out of 12

        about how, I thought there would be a couple of them there - speech and parametric, and then 12 !!
        Quote: dgm
        But during shelling from the Ukrainian "Buk"

        No one is surprised by the fact that all the dances are around Buk, and not the S-300, and it is the Ukrainian side that is pedaling this particular air defense system?
        1. +1
          18 July 2014 13: 33
          So the militia has this, though, it seems, and is faulty.
    24. +7
      18 July 2014 10: 59
      I noticed in the photo of the Boeing wreck that there are no traces typical of an anti-aircraft missile strike. Let us recall the Tu-154 shot down by the Ukrainian Air Defense Forces in 2001. All fragments of the fuselage were dotted with holes from the striking elements. Could the Boeing really be shot down by the Air Force, hit in the engine?
      If I'm wrong - do not scold much. These are just my thoughts and assumptions.
      Hi all! hi
      1. +2
        18 July 2014 11: 41
        ksv1973

        It is possible to shoot down the VC not only the Z-V missile defense system, but also the V-V air defense missile system or a cannon.
      2. +6
        18 July 2014 12: 21
        I also tend to the version that the Boeing was shot down by the Air Force.
        A column of smoke from a solid rocket rocket lasts quite a long time, there would be a bunch of eyewitnesses who saw it.
      3. +1
        18 July 2014 17: 03
        By the way, a very correct thought. The debris is not very impressive.
    25. +3
      18 July 2014 11: 01
      Now the main thing is that black boxes should be decrypted where there will be no falsification.
    26. 0
      18 July 2014 11: 01
      This was done by dill. Military aircraft or beech at the direction of the United States, when they rats stopped. They probably wanted to destroy Putin's plane.
      1. +2
        18 July 2014 11: 16
        Quote: ararat
        This was done by dill. Military aircraft or beech at the direction of the United States, when they rats stopped. They probably wanted to destroy Putin's plane.

        Do you seriously think that Putin’s plane is so easy to bring down? He does not fly alone.
        1. +3
          18 July 2014 11: 35
          He does not fly alone.

          Plus equipped with a missile defense system.
    27. dgm
      dgm
      +3
      18 July 2014 11: 01
      I CONTINUE: In general, there is a rather crudely worked out provocation, when a passenger Boeing was deliberately sent (from Kiev or Dnepropetrovsk - still to be clarified) to the zone of military conflict, where it proceeded accompanied by two junta planes, after which it was destroyed (with a large share In addition to the Boeing, it is likely that one more plane died there, from where the parachutes actually came from). Further, an information pumping mechanism was launched in order to accuse the militias of the death of the plane, which the junta specially brought into the sky of the DPR. The network began to actively throw in fakes that the plane was shot down by the militia, that new sanctions should be introduced against the Russian Federation and the introduction of NATO troops should begin.
      The task of the provocation is quite understandable - to blame the militias and the Russian Federation and reverse the unfortunate trends in the Donbass. Since the provocation was made very clumsily and white threads stick out from everywhere (even on foreign resources they reasonably indicate that the main culprits are in Kiev), then its effect will be limited in my opinion. As a maximum, the junta will try to squeeze a temporary respite from this poorly worked provocation to recover, after the disaster in the battles for Lugansk, Izvarino and Krasnodon
      1. +7
        18 July 2014 11: 58
        The source said to you! PLAGIARIST!
        http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/1676992.html
        1. Irtysh
          +2
          18 July 2014 14: 45
          Personally, I also see that this is a famously conceived provocation, completely ruining kaklamy. Nerves passed, entered the excitement, shook the banks ... that is, they have what they have.

          In general, the history of air provocations dates back VERY many decades. Under the Soviets, that ours actively flew on provocations, which is to us. Any pvoshnik will tell you this and lead a million and real stories and tales.

          I remember a bike when the last Volcano was inundated in the mid-80s. By that time it was already a rather old plane, but for some reason it wasn’t written off. Well, they sent him to our borders for reconnaissance and nightmare air defense councils in the Kanin Nos region. Zadolbal horror like. Either readiness No. 1, then anxiety. Well, the anti-aircraft gunners decided to scare him. When flew up, pulnuli the old 125th complex anyhow where. And he take and hit. El scandal came out pretty. The benefit of the Internet was not and somehow hushed up.

          So the "brothers" of the khuntari, they will fire on the territory, then throw their wounded, then the plane will fly. It is clear that the Russians will tighten up their air defenses. And here, here you have a side not on the route ... BUT messed up, as always, glory to Ukraine.
        2. 0
          18 July 2014 15: 28
          Such plagiarists have long been added to my black list. Thinkers know better.
    28. +4
      18 July 2014 11: 02
      This situation with the plane looks very special. CIA operation. The interest is understandable to suspend the successfully ongoing militia operation on the junta’s troops, simultaneously accusing them of Russia of a terrorist act.
    29. +7
      18 July 2014 11: 03
      Quote: olp
      US intelligence agencies next to the liner spotted on radars the thermal trail of a ground-to-air missile.

      it was necessary to give them such nonsense request

      I agree and a small clarification or how they will explain it: how can you notice a thermal trace at the last moment, but not see it for xs how many minutes after starting from our type of territory, plus a rocket crosses the state border and goes deeper into Ukrainian territory on 100 and more km and they poor fellow do not see her.
      1. -1
        18 July 2014 11: 08
        Stealth Technology)
        1. +3
          18 July 2014 11: 51
          Shadowcat

          When and where did you see on the screen of the radar used for air traffic control or in the interests of the Air Force an echo signal from SAM?

          For example, for 23 of the year I sat behind such radars and did not observe such things.

          Maximum - echo from OTR "Z-Z" "Tochka-U" or (if the P-37r is well tuned) echo from AUR "V-V", "V-radar" or "V-Z".

          The image intensifier is very small and it is very difficult to detect it on the radar. It depends on the characteristics of the radar.
          In ATC, decimeter and centimeter radars are used, and in the Air Force, in addition, a meter.

          So they are simply not visible. Especially against the background of flares from the locals and the SNP.
          1. PLO
            0
            18 July 2014 12: 33
            Yes, there are at least 700 km in radius, in principle, there are no serious radars

            unless in Poland theoretically there could be American radars, and even then there is nothing like Voronezh there.

            generally nonsense all this
          2. 0
            18 July 2014 19: 32
            Nowhere (not counting the movie). I sat behind the radar at the age of 4-5 years, but it was a long time in the civilian world and not true. Dad took to work.

            But if in the case, it was sarcasm and banter no more. You should not get so excited otherwise you can become UkroSMI.
      2. PLO
        +6
        18 July 2014 12: 25
        yes this is stupidity.

        all the tales about the fact that they allegedly detected a missile launch and its trajectory for idiots.

        1) there are simply no serious NATO radars nearby to detect such a small target as a Buk missile launcher for several hundred kilometers.

        2) these chisels still can not give the exact trajectory of a huge Boeing, which is just quite realistic to detect and accompany (if desired) at such a huge distance. and also the place where he was shot down.

        in general it is surprising that someone is being led to such nonsense.
        1. +1
          18 July 2014 12: 33
          PLO

          Logical.

          But the trajectory of the aircraft (both primary and secondary) is automatically written by air traffic control equipment (AC ATC or KSA ATC) and must be stored for up to 30 days.

          It is written not only on the equipment of the air traffic control unit of the air traffic control unit, which directly controls the air traffic, but also adjacent (if the radar zones overlap - and they should overlap in range 1 / 3).
        2. 0
          18 July 2014 12: 49
          Quote: olp
          all the tales about the fact that they supposedly spotted a missile launch

          Why fairy tales, unless a rocket launch is detected by a torch from a satellite?
          1. PLO
            +2
            18 July 2014 13: 12
            Why fairy tales, unless a rocket launch is detected by a torch from a satellite?

            only purely theoretically and in films
          2. +2
            18 July 2014 13: 22
            isn't a rocket launch detected from a satellite by torch

            Ballistic missiles, please note. And it glows like a Christmas tree in the square at night. And here 4-5 meters long and 30-50 cm in diameter - not even a pencil - a needle!
    30. +2
      18 July 2014 11: 04
      "Siberia" will never forgive dill ..
    31. +2
      18 July 2014 11: 07
      Addressing compatriots, Petro Poroshenko said: "Today the war has gone beyond the territory of Ukraine." And further - an explanation: “Today, terrorists killed almost 300 people with one shot. Among them are women, children, citizens of many countries of the world ... They shot down a peaceful passenger aircraft of the Malaysian Airlines, which flew from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur at an altitude of ten thousand one hundred meters. ”

      I've already heard this text somewhere ... I can't remember, but the text and its rhetoric are painfully familiar, especially the first part, before "They shot down ...".
      1. +2
        18 July 2014 12: 15
        Quote: Wedmak
        Addressing compatriots, Petro Poroshenko said: "Today the war has gone beyond the territory of Ukraine." And further - an explanation: “Today, terrorists killed almost 300 people with one shot. Among them are women, children, citizens of many countries of the world ... They shot down a peaceful passenger aircraft of the Malaysian Airlines, which flew from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur at an altitude of ten thousand one hundred meters. ”

        I've already heard this text somewhere ... I can't remember, but the text and its rhetoric are painfully familiar, especially the first part, before "They shot down ...".
        After September 11, we heard the same speech one to one, even didn’t bother to rewrite, the piglet seems to blow its nostrils and closes everything in the brain and leaves
        1. +2
          18 July 2014 12: 38
          Oh sure! How did the main glavnyuk of the entire planet fly out of my head ...
    32. +1
      18 July 2014 11: 07
      So politics began, not having time to cry for the dead. Now the question is who will first find the black boxes. However, civilians are not the first to substitute - remember the latest incidents with Boeing in the USSR.
    33. +2
      18 July 2014 11: 08
      Quote: carpag
      The main version is the monstrously low professional level of Russian (Novorossiysk) air defense personnel who are unable to distinguish between military Ukrainian and passenger aircraft. 300 people paid for it with life

      Do you even understand what you said?
    34. +7
      18 July 2014 11: 09
      Wasn't it so long ago that Porosia screamed that he would shoot down all the planes that flew into the territory of the ruins, so they countered the Boeing with an overdose, sniffed the dill and let’s shoot for nothing, but now he raised the screech that there are so cool women in Novorossia that the planes are a hoe knock down
      1. 0
        18 July 2014 16: 41
        Quote: Kergudo Straight
        Wasn't it so long ago that Porosia screamed that he would shoot down all the planes that flew into the territory of the ruins, so they countered the Boeing with an overdose, sniffed the dill and let’s shoot for nothing, but now he raised the screech that there are so cool women in Novorossia that the planes are a hoe knock down

        Quote: pomegranate
        Do you even understand what you said?

        this was not, please do not carry blizzards, do not distort the name of the country, and even more so when making such accusations, argue, please.
    35. 0
      18 July 2014 11: 09
      Quote: punk
      and whoever shouts more is to blame

      Apparently European and Asian tourists did not know that flying over Ukraine you need to jump, otherwise they will recognize it as "Motskal" and be shot down!
      1. +4
        18 July 2014 11: 33
        Quote: doxtop
        Quote: punk
        and whoever shouts more is to blame

        Apparently European and Asian tourists did not know that flying over Ukraine you need to jump, otherwise they will recognize it as "Motskal" and be shot down!

        Do not mock at the innocent dead, do not humiliate yourself.
    36. the eldest
      +2
      18 July 2014 11: 10
      By any truth, sooner or later it will come up ..... I'm sure the eye from space has been detected as well as the radars in Armavir, remember when we tested a rocket in the Mediterranean Sea, our station detected and accompanied it.
      And this time, I am sure that in your higher circles they know the truth that we will then be informed of then briefly in three words !!!!!!!!!
      1. Grandfather Victor
        +2
        18 July 2014 13: 51
        Since the action is directed directly against Russia, our responsible bodies and leaders should stop pretending to be tolerant of Western "partners" and behave like a cutesy girl (they say I can't say anything about others) and make public all available information about the event (including including about its preparation, if such information is available from the SVR).
    37. +1
      18 July 2014 11: 10
      It was said in the media that they were shot down by a thermal missile, and this is not a Buk, it has a different method of guidance. It looks like a fighter.
      1. Dmitriy1975
        0
        18 July 2014 11: 25
        Most likely the su-27 used R-73
    38. +7
      18 July 2014 11: 11
      Provocation is not excluded. Note, the plane crashed 50 km from the border, and "should" have crashed on Russian territory. Accordingly, the responsibility was to be borne by Russia. But something didn't work out. My opinion.
      1. KostA_RikA
        +2
        18 July 2014 11: 28
        maybe you're right, but they (the west) and in this situation will suck versions from the finger clearly in their favor
    39. +7
      18 July 2014 11: 12
      I never considered myself a believer, but now I hope that hell exists, and those who arranged it will be there
    40. +4
      18 July 2014 11: 12
      Quote: carpag
      The main version is the monstrously low professional level of Russian (Novorossiysk) air defense personnel who are unable to distinguish between military Ukrainian and passenger aircraft. 300 people paid for it with life

      are you writing this based on the shelling of civilians in the Gaza Strip? If you are so smart, hit the toilet with your "eugean head" - this way you will put your thoughts in order.
      1. +5
        18 July 2014 11: 34
        Dear forum users! The whole trick is that whoever does this, it’s HH. withheld. All these modern tracking and detection systems, satellites, civilian and military radars plus a black box simply will not allow concealing the awl in a bag. This is yet another confirmation of the criminal headache and unprofessionalism of Ukrainian women, which more and more resembles a monkey with a grenade. This is the case when there is a weapon, but where should they poke and, most importantly, HOW ??? No one knows.
        1. +1
          18 July 2014 17: 12
          Quote: mitya24
          This is yet another confirmation of the criminal racketeering and unprofessionalism of Ukrainian women

          This should be reported to the whole world.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    41. +4
      18 July 2014 11: 16
      And the most important thing is not to allow the Americans to be involved in the investigation - this is the interested party, which can erase the evidence and do everything right for them.
      1. +2
        18 July 2014 12: 24
        Quote: ArhipenkoAndrey
        And the most important thing is not to allow the Americans to be involved in the investigation - this is the interested party, which can erase the evidence and do everything right for them.

        They are aircraft manufacturers and that’s it.
        Required to participate.
    42. +4
      18 July 2014 11: 18
      What the scoundrels do, what they do !!! Do not disdain anything.
      Provocation of pure water. Vile, vile and vile again.
    43. +3
      18 July 2014 11: 18
      <Quote: Poroshenko ends his message to compatriots with the usual remark: "Glory to Ukraine!">
      We must assume that this is their analogue of "Heil Hitler!"
      The Juntists have not yet decided on the name to be inserted into this "chant." There are too many of them: Poroshenko, Bandera, Klitschko, Yarosh, Obama, Psaki, Lyashko, Biden, Kolomoisky, Merkel ... It's a long time to list them all. You also need to decide on the order, so as not to offend someone inadvertently. So far they are shouting to the place and out of place "Glory to Ukraine!"
      1. Grandfather Victor
        0
        18 July 2014 13: 44
        Have you forgotten Obama?
    44. +2
      18 July 2014 11: 19
      An analogy from 2001 is not entirely appropriate. There is understatement and gouging, today is malicious intent. It is curious, how is the thermal trace from the missile complex missile so clearly different from the thermal trace of the R-27E, especially when approaching the target?
      1. 0
        18 July 2014 11: 38
        It is curious, how is the thermal trace from the missile complex missile so clearly different from the thermal trace of the R-27E, especially when approaching the target?

        Well, at least in intensity and direction. The only question is - is it fashionable to detect this trace from the satellite, not knowing in advance where the launch will be made?
    45. +8
      18 July 2014 11: 22
      Wrong questions are being asked (on purpose or not). The result is swearing, recriminations, "controlled chaos".

      The main question is: "How did a civilian passenger aircraft performing a REGULAR flight on a STANDARD route end up where it crashed in one way or another?"

      Who brought him to the area where FEW MONTHS are already undergoing intensive military operations using both aviation weapons and modern air defense systems, where MORE THAN TWO DIFFERENT various, including transport, aircraft have been shot down?

      If it is possible to answer this question, if they are allowed to answer it, then to the questions "Who did it?", "Who gave the order?", "Who forced to take this step?" the answers will be much easier to find.
      1. 0
        18 July 2014 12: 00
        Quote: stoker
        The main question is: "How did a civilian passenger aircraft performing a REGULAR flight on a STANDARD route end up where it crashed in one way or another?"

        as an option could overwhelm GPS navigation ...
        1. +2
          18 July 2014 13: 13
          Quote: PSih2097
          as an option could overwhelm GPS navigation ...

          Further on a string: who, how and when failed? Recorders must show. But the dispatcher is more important. They listen to him first. Could the dispatcher correct the coordinates?
        2. 0
          18 July 2014 13: 47
          His dispatcher leads.
    46. +2
      18 July 2014 11: 22
      Parashka feels a complete failure of the ATO, so she is trying to delay her death with such wild methods. But how much the rope does not curl and the end is known!
      1. Irtysh
        0
        18 July 2014 14: 59
        Yes, here, most likely, they dig under the Piglet.

        If it is not possible to bring under the militias, then Piglets will tumble down, which is also not bad for them. Che-thread yes burn out.
    47. Romanychby
      +2
      18 July 2014 11: 22
      100% this is a monstrous provocation of Ukrainians from the filing of Americans in order to specifically squeeze Novorosov. In addition, the experience of knocking down civilian airliners in the Ukrop defense was already there. And the most terrible thing is that innocent people die. Condolences to the families of the victims.
    48. olega211
      +1
      18 July 2014 11: 23
      Just scum. If the West is bought, then everything is clear with them.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Irtysh
        0
        18 July 2014 15: 00
        The West will not buy, because this is his searchlight.
    49. 3vs
      +5
      18 July 2014 11: 23
      It seems that Obama burns a lot under his ass!
      Apparently something very serious is about to start.
      Were NATO troops brought into Ukraine?
      1. 0
        18 July 2014 23: 29
        Required. Already, and the requests of dill are ready. KOZL ... I want to howl, I want to shoot
    50. KostA_RikA
      +3
      18 July 2014 11: 24
      everything is so predictable that it’s even scary am

      and most importantly, ordinary civilians become a bargaining chip in the games of the Nazis and the West
      1. Endem
        -6
        18 July 2014 13: 19
        Well, you're straight Nosterdamus. Give a forecast for tomorrow?
        1. +1
          18 July 2014 18: 51
          Duc junto-government and their American masters are already outrageously predictable. And no matter what the next inhuman bastard they throw. The main thing is that Russia will be to blame for everything, and their hounds will slam their eyes and deny all the most obvious facts
    51. 0
      18 July 2014 11: 25
      [quote=ksv1973]I noticed in the photo of the Boeing wreckage that there were no traces characteristic of being hit by anti-aircraft missiles. Let's remember the Tu-154, shot down by Ukrainian air defense in 2001. All fragments of the fuselage were riddled with holes from damaging elements. Could the Boeing really be shot down by the Air Force, hit in the engine?
      TONIGHT ON CHANNEL 10 SEVERAL TIMES THEY SHOWED PIECES OF THE FUSELAGE WITH ROUND HOLES OF THE SAME DIAMETER, WITH STRAIGHT EDGES, REMINDING HITS, EITHER SHELLS OR, BUNCH CAPTURES... THEY WERE LAYING VERY TUMBLED... I REALLY DON’T KNOW WHAT HOW AN AIRCRAFT PROJECTILE BEHAVIORS WHEN IT HITS THE CASE.. BUT IT WAS CLEARLY VISIBLE AND THE PERSON HOLDING THE PIECE POINTED TO THE HOLES..
    52. 0
      18 July 2014 11: 26
      You are probably confusing the investigation with information about the surface-to-air missile, in order to divert the investigation astray. After all, the operator clearly said that the fighter was accompanied by two Ukrainian aircraft. And as for such provocations, we’ve eaten the dog on this one.
    53. +1
      18 July 2014 11: 26
      Quote: romaskadarv
      Are other points of view other than the "correct" ones not accepted? And what are the "correct" ones who decide?

      Not just the right ones, but the obvious ones. Or the shelling of the territory of the Russian Federation by the Ukrainian troops is not enough for you. They keep thinking that the Russian Federation is about to send in troops and they’re shooting at everyone, all this looks like an invasion mania!
    54. +2
      18 July 2014 11: 27
      The most important thing now is that the “black boxes” from the plane end up in Russia and that experts from different countries are involved in their decryption and the results of the decryption are announced throughout the world. If the Americans or Ukrainians get to the “black boxes”, then things will get worse. But since the plane crashed on territory controlled by the militia, I think another provocation will fail. The Americans are having no luck in the ruins; all their plans are being thwarted. Soon the world will stop tolerating them completely.
    55. Romanychby
      0
      18 July 2014 11: 28
      Quote: olega211
      Just scum. If the West is bought, then everything is clear with them.

      Dear, are you, by any chance, not from Kyiv? Everything has been clear with the West for a long time. IMHO.
    56. Sergei 57
      +1
      18 July 2014 11: 28
      This provocation proves that the Americans will stop at nothing. But Russia needs to prepare for the worst, because the “world community” does not strive for peace.
    57. +1
      18 July 2014 11: 28
      What hit the plane can be identified within an hour.
      Missile warheads leave holes of various shapes: S-75 chocolate (like a lemon), S-125 parallelepiped, S-200 ball (shrapnel), "Buk" (if I'm not mistaken) needles.
      If we compare the performance characteristics of the complex and the downed aircraft, then they approximately fired at a distance of 16 - 18 km from the aircraft.
    58. +3
      18 July 2014 11: 36
      I am also inclined towards a provocation against Russia, if only to persuade Europe to more actively support the staff in terms of new sanctions, but I don’t rule out an attempt to shoot down our “Air Force 1” - no matter how happy all the abomination was, the interceptors did not have time to identify the visual border nearby, so they fired in pursuit, it’s also worth remembering the statement of one of the junta’s security forces about “civilian aircraft from Russia equipped with reconnaissance equipment,” and there are questions about the route guidance - they brought them straight into the battle zone for a reason. The CIA is a big specialist in all sorts of nasty things; there is still no single point of view on the 11.09/XNUMX terrorist attacks. after which a worldwide bacchanalia began under the leadership of the mattress and (or) with its participation
      1. Irtysh
        +1
        18 July 2014 15: 06
        Their Ukrainian protégés will respond to any professionalism of the CIA with enchanting performance and extraordinary creativity.
    59. +1
      18 July 2014 11: 38
      The militia, even if they put their beech in order, they could not use it according to the stated performance characteristics, the maximum performance characteristics of a beech can only be achieved in a complex, and this is a ton of all sorts of nuances, namely ground locators that were destroyed in battles, its own radar does not allow it to hit for such purposes,
      Everywhere on the forums, air defense specialists write that such a target can be shot down either by a fighter, or by an integrated air defense system, the kaklov have it there
    60. -1
      18 July 2014 11: 40
      For provocation, it’s too complicated, rude, and, on top of that, ugly. It’s much easier, if they (the USA) can’t bear to play war with Russia, order their lackeys to launch “tornadoes” and “hurricanes” across the Crimea, framing it in the spirit of the liberation war of a proud and freedom-loving Ukraine with the Evil Empire-Russia for illegally annexed territory.
      1. Irtysh
        0
        18 July 2014 15: 09
        Yes. The tornadoes still need to be adjusted to the position.

        I can imagine how many raid groups of “nerds” are grazing there.
    61. KostA_RikA
      0
      18 July 2014 11: 41
      Quote: olega211
      Just scum. If the West is bought, then everything is clear with them.

      who do you think is behind all this?
    62. +1
      18 July 2014 11: 41
      The downing (and I believe that it was shot down) of the Boeing was beneficial only to the United States, Poroshenko & Co. and Israel.
      The United States had the opportunity to expand its campaign of slander against Russia a hundredfold, introduce new sanctions themselves, and finally force the EU to accept tough economic sanctions (which is currently sabotaging their introduction against Russia in every possible way). Again, to denigrate Novorossiya, supported by Russia, by presenting it as a bunch of outcasts and terrorists who want to chop off a piece from Ukraine for its further annexation to Russia (their worst dream is the re-creation of the USSR).
      Poroshenko and his gang are now on the verge of complete defeat. The army, in any case, its most combat-ready units are in a cauldron and on the verge of defeat. The militias have very little time left to put the squeeze on them, and mass surrender and desertion will begin. At the same time, a large number will be surrendered weapons and vast territories. And the downing of the Boeing is a gift of fate for him; he believes that he will get a break to regroup the troops, withdraw the wounded, get ammunition and replenishment. Along the way, the task of discrediting Novorossiya and Russia is being accomplished (and he naturally remains all white and covered in chocolate).
      Israel saves its proteges (it’s no secret that the entire leadership of Ukraine consists of Jews) and at the same time creates “noise” against the background of which it invades Gaza, killing and destroying everything around (by the way, notice how this all coincided with the shooting down of a Boeing and aggression against peaceful Gaza ) .
      Therefore, I believe that the downing of the Boeing was the work of Poroshenko at the instigation of the United States and Israel.
    63. +2
      18 July 2014 11: 42
      By and large, it no longer matters WHO shot down the plane, what is important is that it was shot down and the already prepared indictments and sanctions for Russia will be put into action regardless of what truth is revealed later. This has already happened in Serbia, Iraq, Libya, etc. Russia is a priori to blame and will be “punished” in any way, if not for the downing of the plane itself, then for the notorious “escalation” of tension.
      1. Irtysh
        0
        18 July 2014 15: 15
        It is already a war crime that a civilian aircraft was driven into a combat zone. This is PRIMARY. And who already smacked him there is no longer so interesting.
    64. 0
      18 July 2014 11: 43
      Intercepting dill's conversation!
      http://rusdozor.ru/2014/07/18/sbityj-malajzijskij-boing-777-post-obnovlyaetsya/
    65. 0
      18 July 2014 11: 44
      I’ll ask the question that tormented me all night: why didn’t the debris that fell from a ten-kilometer height sink into the ground? Everything lies on the surface on the trampled grass...
      Really?.. I’m not putting forward any hypotheses.
      1. Irtysh
        0
        18 July 2014 15: 19
        The specific gravity is small, the area is large. Even the pieces and debris “plan,” if you can call it that.

        What I mean is that the vertical speed is less than it might seem. Hence the scattering of fragments is large.
        1. 0
          18 July 2014 15: 56
          Yes. Is the engine also lightweight? and whole suitcases... and just try throwing a piece of plywood from the 9th floor to the ground. It won’t go in too bad if it doesn’t fall flat. but that’s the problem: flat pieces don’t fall down. basically. especially from a great height.
          1. Irtysh
            0
            18 July 2014 16: 18
            Well, there don’t seem to be many flat pieces there. And not flat pieces unwind and fly apart....

            But I have another question. I'm probably very bloodthirsty, but I still don't see crowds of grief-stricken relatives. This seems strange to me. Otherwise you don’t have enough pieces underground.
            1. 0
              18 July 2014 16: 32
              yes, of course it’s not pleasant to raise the topic, but... don’t you think that the fragmentation of bodies is somewhat weak for a fall from such a height. even inside the fuselage. I personally saw someone who fell from the 22nd floor. but 10 kilometers... I get lost...
    66. romaskadarv
      0
      18 July 2014 11: 45
      Statement by the Russian Ministry of Defense in connection with the Boeing crash (http://warfiles.ru/show-64213-zayavlenie-minoborony-rossii-v-svyazi-s-katastrof
      oy-boeing.html)
      “In connection with various kinds of insinuations that have appeared regarding the actions of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in the areas bordering Ukraine, we responsibly declare that:
      On July 17, the air defense systems of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation did not work in this area.
      Aircraft of the Russian Air Force did not perform flights in the Russian regions bordering the Donetsk region on July 17 of this year..."
      It turns out it was a day off?
      1. 0
        18 July 2014 14: 52
        romaskadarv

        No. Not a day off.

        It’s just that no flights were carried out in the 25-kilometer border strip (which is established in the airspace along the state border of the Russian Federation).
    67. 0
      18 July 2014 11: 47
      Now this is how planes fly over Square
    68. Atanda
      +2
      18 July 2014 11: 49
      The text of the idiot Parashenka is extremely idiocy! There, every line can be illustrated with news feeds that completely refute what was said! So much pathos and not a single word of truth! I especially liked the “unbending spirit of the Ukrainian army,” he probably wanted to say, “the unbearable spirit of the Ukrainian army that shot down a peaceful plane! Glory to us!”
    69. 0
      18 July 2014 11: 50
      A terrible tragedy. There is a lot that is unclear... Do not consider it blasphemous - is this not a deliberate provocation? The authorities themselves, or at instigation from outside, gave the order for defeat. They just didn’t calculate it - the plane didn’t crash on Russian territory. I didn’t make it enough... What if I had made it? If only there was howling and screaming... And Europe can be forced to impose sanctions...
    70. Serge56
      0
      18 July 2014 11: 50
      Of the many versions and information, for some reason it seems to me that the most interesting thing is that the main goal in the situation of the downed Boeing is the removal of Poroshenko from the post of president. And the black boxes simply had to get to Moscow. It will be proven that Ukraine is at fault and the president will have to resign. But “whose hand” is interested in this? Kolomiets, Tymoshenkos... there is no need to talk about the Americans. But coupled with a general interest in fundamental changes, the unfortunate country was “swamped in the swamp”.
    71. mihasik
      +2
      18 July 2014 11: 50
      But Poroshenko is right that the Boeing 777 was shot down by terrorists. I even began to respect him for his will to admit the truth. After all, if you correctly prioritize who are actually terrorists, who destroy civilians, the infrastructure and economy of Ukraine by the forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and by gangs of Ukrainian Nazis, then he is right!
    72. Nikolav
      +1
      18 July 2014 11: 51
      There is only one conclusion. Never fly with Malaysia Airlines. And don’t even think about flying close to the territory of the former Ukraine. You'll be healthier...
    73. +1
      18 July 2014 11: 51
      The Ukrainian military, who were surrounded, needed to get out of it, but how? the fighting must be stopped. they shot down a plane - everyone is in shock, everyone demands an investigation, amid this noise their troops avoid complete destruction and leave the cauldron. IMHO
    74. +1
      18 July 2014 11: 51
      Yarema, the Prosecutor General of Ukropia has already stated that the militia does not have Bukovs. Only an INDEPENDENT investigation by IAC specialists with the obligatory presence of specialists from Russia will be able to answer the question of who shot down the airliner. Plus data from our and American satellites.
    75. Atanda
      0
      18 July 2014 11: 52
      If your president looks like a long-eared macaque, then you are an American, and if your little guy is Ukrainian (or urk? or orc?) who cares!?
    76. -27
      18 July 2014 11: 55
      Russia has armed passionate scumbags (and they are the movers of revolutions), albeit outdated, but too powerful weapons. And as a result, she set herself up... And all simply because she either needed to take off the cross or put on panties. You want to ignore Strelkov and company, or send peacekeeping forces to Donbass a long time ago.
    77. RN40Y45
      +1
      18 July 2014 11: 56
      the tragedy developed at lightning speed, the crew didn’t even have time to press the “trouble” button, most likely an explosion on the plane, as an option a mid-air collision with a fighter jet, the found parachute will be attached to the case.
    78. +2
      18 July 2014 11: 56
      Messrs. Ukrofashists have screwed themselves. It’s difficult to set Russia up in this situation, they screwed over their territory anyway. And their president is a pro - straight away a terrorist attack, most likely they wanted to overwhelm our board with volunteers, but apparently it didn’t work out. Messrs., the great Ukrainians, crap themselves. hi
    79. 0
      18 July 2014 12: 01
      The event is sad, but by the way: the photos and videos from the crash site are not at all similar to the photo with the plane allegedly shot down by the militia with stolen goods on board. There was even green grass there.
    80. The comment was deleted.
    81. Valeri
      +2
      18 July 2014 12: 02
      Now all the specialists are scratching their heads. Let's wait to see what the objective control materials say. Well, if the Kyiv dispatcher saw fighters near the Boeing, then other means will be able to confirm this. Otherwise, it would not be worth informing us about the detection of an Israeli missile launch in the Mediterranean Sea, towards Syria.
    82. 0
      18 July 2014 12: 03
      The child understands that this is a planned provocation. Now both the United States and Poroshenko’s jackals will scream at the same time that it is Russia and the militias that are to blame for everything. This will give the States a free hand in terms of arms supplies and may bring in NATO forces.
    83. 0
      18 July 2014 12: 05
      The main thing is that the plane was flying in a combat zone, and this is the fault of the junta! But I'm afraid I can't explain this to the dogs request
    84. Endem
      -12
      18 July 2014 12: 08
      Note to the author of this article - before “scratching” anything, check the facts.
      1. According to Ukrainian legislation, the Spanish “Carlos” cannot be the air traffic controller of Boryspil - carefully read paragraph No. 3.1.
      The air traffic controllers are at fault
      Be aware of the upcoming dangers:
      - the vastness of Ukraine; Karlusha Vash is definitely not a citizen of Ukraine.
      2. Since when does a Spanish dispatcher speak Spanish in the control room and not speak English? What are these new requirements? Each country has its own rules and all pilots must know 200+ languages.
      3. Check this Spaniard on the Internet and what we will see is that the person does not even know the basics about his homeland, he is engaged in “trollism” and propaganda of separatism.
      4. “Residents of the village of Grabovo, a few minutes before the fall, saw a combat aircraft in the sky” - the author, raise your head and try in clear weather to see the aircraft at an altitude of 11 km. Not only that, they also saw the missiles. I see that the residents of this village should enroll as snipers en masse, and not even provide optics for rifles, why, they can see at 11 km, then at 1 km they will even consider whether a fly is sweating or not.
      5. 2 people jumped out of the dying plane - The author doesn’t even need to comment here - the height of insanity.
      6. Why does Ukraine need air defense systems in the ATO zone if the DPR and LPR do not have aviation.
      Shooting down toy drones? Or bullets?
      Think about what you write and check the facts, and don’t scribble the text.

      The article was created to “fill” the rating and write text to collect “pluses”.
      1. +2
        18 July 2014 13: 42
        Slyushchay, when did everyone start obeying the law in Ukraine? The prosecutor's office cannot be led by a person who has not worked in the field of justice, but yours is headed by someone who has not worked in the field of justice. And here you are telling us about some dispatcher. I also don’t know why they would steal air defense in the ATO area, but the Ukrainians pinned it there - that’s a fact.
      2. Tanechka-clever
        0
        18 July 2014 14: 52
        Quote: ENDEM
        Why does Ukraine need air defense systems in the ATO zone if the DPR and LPR do not have aviation.

        Sergey - You started and you should finish.
        The Ukrainian military does not even deny the fact that they are standing there - moreover, these installations were working at that time and even exchanged information with each other.
        If the militia does not have aviation, it means that they had other goals and were waiting for something .. or ... someone. Or maybe they were waiting for Putin’s truth and chose the time and pulled up the appropriate equipment. We are waiting..with the answer .a..a.. But I’m afraid in vain...a..a - even u.k.r.y. Now I’m thoughtful - NATO didn’t send in troops, and Donbass is even offering a truce - although I don’t understand why...
      3. 0
        18 July 2014 14: 58
        Endem

        Regarding the Spaniard, I agree.

        As for the rest - no.

        At an altitude of 11 km, the plane can be seen (especially if there is no cloud cover) - no problem. If desired, consider it if you have normal vision.

        And the appearance of Ukrainian air defense in the ATO zone is quite understandable.
        Wasn’t it Kyiv, at one time, that announced the threat of an invasion of the Russian Armed Forces (including the Air Force) into the territory of Ukraine?
      4. 0
        18 July 2014 15: 55
        . “Residents of the village of Grabovo, a few minutes before the fall, saw a combat aircraft in the sky” - author, raise your head and try in clear weather to see the aircraft at an altitude of 11 km. Not only that, they also saw the missiles. I see that the residents of this village should enroll as snipers en masse, and not even provide optics for rifles, why, they can see at 11 km, then at 1 km they will even consider whether a fly is sweating or not.

        Have you ever seen a jet engine trail?

        6. Why does Ukraine need air defense systems in the ATO zone if the DPR and LPR do not have aviation.

        And what about the Su-25 captured from the ancient Ukrainians and its flight?
    85. +2
      18 July 2014 12: 13
      0-26, Spanish air traffic controller working in Kiev, tweeted:

      “Before they took the phones from us, or they beat my head, HE WAS BEAT DOWN BY KIEV”

      The Spaniard left more than 20 messages, among which are two Ukrainian fighters that accompanied the aircraft until it lost contact with him.

      Carlos posts in order:
      1: Air crash, a passenger plane crashed in Ukraine, near Donetsk
      2: Plane crash, 777 plane, in the zone of Donetsk
      3: B 777 Malaysia Airlines crashed in Ukraine, on the border with Russia
      4: B 777 Malaysia Airlines 280 passengers. Crashed in Donetsk Ukraine.
      5: Kiev authorities are trying to make it look like an attack by pro-Russian militias
      6: ATTENTION! Perhaps the B 777 in Ukraine was shot down. 280 Passengers
      7: THIS IS SO! It seems that Kiev achieved what he wanted.
      8: In Kiev again captured the control tower
      9: Confirmed: Aircraft B 777 disappeared on the radar, there were no reports of any anomalies.
      10: Aircraft shot down, this is not an accident
      11: Kiev achieved what he wanted. I already mentioned this in previous tweets
      12: This plane crash is not quite ordinary. We are being threatened in the control room.
      13: Phones will be taken from us at any time
      14: Before they take the phones from us, or they beat my head, he was hit by Kiev
      15: We have a confirmation. The plane is shot down. Kiev authorities already have information. Shot down. Now we are calm.
      16: What are the foreign employees doing in the control tower? Gather information.
      17: When the opportunity arises, I will continue to write.
      18: The B 777 aircraft flew escorted by two Ukrainian fighters, just before it disappeared from the radar.
      19: If the Kiev authorities want to tell the truth, two fighters flew nearby several minutes before, the fighter did not hit him.
      20: Immediately after B 777 disappeared, the Kiev military reported a fall. How did they know that?
      21: In 7: 00 they reported the downing of the aircraft, a little later they captured our control room. Foreigners are still here.
      22: For non-believers. Radars all spotted. The plane was shot down by Kiev. We all know this and the military too.
      23: Here, the military acknowledges that other soldiers could have done this, but do not know who ordered it.
      24: The military confirm that Ukraine did this. But they don’t know where the order came from.
      25: A few days ago I said that the military wanted to remove Poroshenko. Perhaps this is so, but orders Tymoshenko.
      26: Fighters flew over the plane, and after only 3 minutes he disappeared. Total 3.
      27: Close the airspace.
      https://twitter.com/spainbuca
      1. +1
        18 July 2014 13: 09
        Is this dispatcher still alive...?
        Our people should check everything and protect it somehow. Because if everything he says is true, his life in Ukraine is not worth a penny.
    86. +1
      18 July 2014 12: 15
      The brave warriors who are capable of fighting only with civilians have once again shot down a civilian plane.
    87. Collective Mind
      0
      18 July 2014 12: 16
      But “Censor” already knows everything.

      http://censor.net.ua/news/294327/terroristy_nochyu_vyvezli_v_rossiyu_buk_iz_koto
      rogo_byl_sbit_boing_sovetnik_glavy_mvd
      1. Endem
        -7
        18 July 2014 12: 19
        Well, there are plenty of photos and videos of the “Apalchens” carrying a Buk on 17.07.14/XNUMX/XNUMX.
        Google it a bit, maybe the top of your head will clear up a little.
        1. Collective Mind
          0
          18 July 2014 12: 25
          Ukrainian Prosecutor General Yarema has already denied that the militias have Buk complexes. Who to believe? Or can Ukrainian politicians even among themselves not agree on what to say to whom? Then what kind of objectivity of the investigation can we even talk about?
        2. +2
          18 July 2014 13: 48
          I see everything in this part of your head is clear and light. The beech itself does not shoot.
          Yes, you can see the moon through your grenade (head). Quote from Bumbarash.
        3. +3
          18 July 2014 13: 49
          Quote: ENDEM
          Well, there are plenty of photos and videos of the “Apalchens” carrying a Buk on 17.07.14/XNUMX/XNUMX.
          Google it a bit, maybe the top of your head will clear up a little.

          In Ukraine they are clearly spraying something, there have never been such stupid people there before. A beech is 5-6 assembled machines, they do not work without each other. The militia carried only the launcher, the target designation and detection vehicle was nowhere to be seen, and the command post to Buk was also nowhere to be seen. The launcher itself, without other vehicles, is a cart with pipes.
          1. +1
            18 July 2014 16: 02
            There is no point in explaining to them. For them, the Buk is just a big MANPADS. Pointed, clicked, forgot.
            1. 0
              18 July 2014 21: 49
              Quote: Cossack Ermak
              There is no point in explaining to them. For them, the Buk is just a big MANPADS. Pointed, clicked, forgot.

              - No, the Ukrainians have assigned spotters to the Buk. From Russia. Two. With Russian passports and military IDs, which indicate the military qualification: spotter. They fly hang gliders near airplanes and adjust the fire.
    88. +2
      18 July 2014 12: 17
      I myself served in the air defense - even a crappy launcher can be put in order by an average mechanic, well, let’s say electromechanical specialists from the DPR\ENR launched the RPU. But the on-load tap-changer can be repaired
      type "Chainmail" can only be done by a highly qualified specialist in automation and kip, especially since there are so many delicate parts containing precious metals. + very sensitive setting
    89. dgm
      dgm
      +1
      18 July 2014 12: 19
      It is necessary to request and collect data from all satellites, including Chinese ones, where everything is visible in real time! In Moscow, because of the tragedy, there will be extreme switchmen in the metro, but who will be the last one on the plane - Russia??? Obama has the audacity to present the Russian Federation with a lot of things, so it is necessary to provide specific documented facts about the non-involvement of the militias and Russia in the downed plane on the territory of Ukraine! And conversations are just conversations! P.S. In general, it’s high time to stop making excuses to the whole world, otherwise it could lead to insanity, a crocodile died in Africa, and Russia will be to blame!!!
    90. +1
      18 July 2014 12: 21
      Quote: Aeneas
      Tyuu, how can you tell them apart? We thought the Il-76 turned out to be a Boeing. Plus, a solid premium for the downed Ukrainian transport aircraft clouded the mind ... In general, air defense is an integrated system of forces and means: RTV, ZRV, electronic warfare, RTR, various ACS and KP. Most (almost all) militias do not have these opportunities. We acquired a military complex, and made decisions on destruction on the spot, as if in a battle ... And we give medals and orders for those shot down. Look how the Korean was overwhelmed - the flyer who visually (!) Saw the passenger was given an order, and Kornukov, who decisively authorized the shooting down of the Koreans, later became the Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force and the Hero of Russia. But Rust was not shot down, and everyone "got a hat", inconsistencies, and voluntary-forced resignations.

      What order was given to the Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners who shot down a TU-2001 in 154? What reward did the missilemen and MOU Kuzmuk receive who shot at a residential building in Brovary?
    91. The comment was deleted.
    92. 0
      18 July 2014 12: 21
      It’s clear who shot down, during military operations in the South Georgia, all means of objective control and reconnaissance are working in full force, for example, the Mediterranean Sea when our stations immediately registered the launches of two Israeli missiles, and right next door we know everything, the same for the Americans everything is clear, the Maidanists have overthrown the board, now there is a bargaining, with us, on how to bring all this up and what losses and concessions there will be for the Americans and the Maidanists. Politicians, as always, are dark, and people are dying.
    93. 0
      18 July 2014 12: 22
      The Boeing was deliberately brought into the no-fly territory in order to shoot it down and accuse Russia of involvement. And so it will be. The plan is stupid, but effective. It was so in Syria, Libya, and it will be so now. They will “prove” that the Buk was supplied to the militias by Russia and no one will listen to any objections or arguments. And the European and American people are gobbling it up. Or they will come up with a Russian fighter. Ukrainians can fight with unarmed people or organize provocations. no longer good for anything. and there is no provocation that the United States would not support, because everything is done in their interests. And interests come first. Including human lives.
      1. 0
        18 July 2014 16: 57
        Don’t rush to conclusions. There will definitely be Germans working on the commission, they are meticulous and stubborn guys, they cannot be persuaded or intimidated. They can really get to the bottom of the truth and this will be supported by society in the light of spy scandals with mattresses.
    94. sazhka4
      0
      18 July 2014 12: 26
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJoqlsat-RY
      No comments..
    95. 0
      18 July 2014 12: 27
      The Americans and Parashenko calculated everything...except for one thing - Strelkov’s reaction! Horseradish, as they say, and not stopping for the duration of the operation! The boilers will finish off! And you only need 3-5 days! Then finish off the airports... and then, by the way, you can stop for a couple of days... for your own regrouping! But then no one will need this truce! They stupidly save 3 brigades... in a bestial manner they save, but war is war, as best they can! Although they should be hanged for this! Throw the whole junta company upside down! Just like they hanged Mussolini!
    96. 0
      18 July 2014 12: 29

      0-26, Spanish air traffic controller working in Kiev, tweeted:
      "Before they take away our phones or smash my head, HE WAS KNOWN BY KIEV"
      The Spaniard left more than 20 messages, among which are two Ukrainian fighters that accompanied the aircraft until it lost contact with him.
      Carlos posts in order:
      1: Air crash, a passenger plane crashed in Ukraine, near Donetsk
      2: Plane crash, 777 plane, in the zone of Donetsk
      3: B 777 Malaysia Airlines crashes in Ukraine, on the border with Russia
      4: B 777 Malaysia Airlines 280 passengers. Ukraine crashed in Donetsk.
      5: Kiev authorities are trying to make it look like an attack by pro-Russian militias
      6: ATTENTION! Perhaps the B 777 in Ukraine was shot down. 280 Passengers
      7: THIS IS SO! It seems that Kiev achieved what he wanted.
      8: In Kiev again captured the control tower
      9: Confirmed: Aircraft B 777 disappeared on the radar, there were no reports of any anomalies.
      10: Aircraft shot down, this is not an accident
      11: Kiev achieved what he wanted. I already mentioned this in previous tweets
      12: This plane crash is not quite ordinary. We are being threatened in the control room.
      13: Phones will be taken from us at any time
      14: Before they take the phones from us, or they beat my head, he was hit by Kiev
      15: We have a confirmation. The plane is shot down. Kiev authorities already have information. Shot down. Now we are calm.
      16: What are the foreign employees doing in the control tower? Gather information.
      17: When the opportunity arises, I will continue to write.
      18: The B 777 aircraft flew escorted by two Ukrainian fighters, just before it disappeared from the radar.
      19: If the Kiev authorities want to tell the truth, two fighters flew nearby several minutes before, the fighter did not hit him.
      20: Immediately after B 777 disappeared, the Kiev military reported a fall. How did they know that?
      21: In 7: 00 they reported the downing of the aircraft, a little later they captured our control room. Foreigners are still here.
      22: For non-believers. Radars all spotted. The plane was shot down by Kiev. We all know this and the military too.
      23: Here, the military acknowledges that other soldiers could have done this, but do not know who ordered it.
      24: The military confirm that Ukraine did this. But they don’t know where the order came from.
      25: A few days ago I said that the military wanted to remove Poroshenko. Perhaps this is so, but orders Tymoshenko.
      26: Fighters flew over the plane, and after only 3 minutes he disappeared. Total 3.
      27: Close the airspace.
      https://twitter.com/spainbuca

      . This is from the site http://voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/2961-sbityy-malayziyskiy-boing-777-post-ob
      novlyaetsya.html
    97. 0
      18 July 2014 12: 30
      Strangely, this airline’s Boeing plane disappears in the Pacific Ocean (following the logic of the Prime Minister of the country, the kangaroo is definitely Australia’s fault) four months later there is another disaster and the Boeing crashes again. It's strange how all this
      1. Endem
        -4
        18 July 2014 12: 36
        Following the logic of your president, the Pacific Ocean is to blame.
    98. 0
      18 July 2014 12: 39
      Has anyone noticed that Israel launched an operation in the Gaza Strip today? Coincidence again? Or they did agree with the Washington regional committee.
    99. 0
      18 July 2014 12: 40
      Only God can cope with such a gang of Americans-EU-Ukrainians. No matter what politicians do, God supports only those whose thoughts are pure and correspond to HIS WILL! The enemies have thrown so much force at NovoRussia, so much intrigue and deception have been woven, but it holds on with God’s help!
      1. Endem
        -9
        18 July 2014 12: 45
        Yeah, it’s just not noticeable that the so-called residents of the DPR and LPR favor God and church ministers.
        Look: http://news.rambler.ru/25820379/

        Maybe they are Atheists?
    100. 0
      18 July 2014 12: 43
      Poroshenko ends with the usual remark: “Glory to Ukraine!”

      It seems that all that remains for the junta to do in the current situation is to glorify Ukraine. And hope that it will pass. Well, or urgently undergo plastic surgery and gender reassignment surgery (well, for sure...) and go away, go away, go away...

    "Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

    “Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"