Military Review

"Windbreaker" defended the Israeli tank from anti-tank missiles

151
Issued by Palestinian militants on Israeli border on Gaza tank the missile was successfully defused by the Vetrovka active defense system installed on the armored vehicle (Meil Ruach, export name - Trophy). As a result, there were no casualties, and the tank remained intact. It is reported NEWSru with reference to the press service of the IDF.


"Windbreaker" defended the Israeli tank from anti-tank missiles


The Meil ​​Ruach defense system was created at the RAFAEL Arms Development Directorate. The new system, which began to be installed on Merkava tanks from 2006, creates something like an electronic canopy surrounding the car from all sides. The device detects the anti-tank missile in advance, identifies it and destroys it before it can reach the armor.
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  1. The comment was deleted.
  2. Cossack Ermak
    Cossack Ermak 15 July 2014 12: 59
    +2
    Something I do not believe.
    1. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 15 July 2014 13: 08
      +3
      In another article I read that the missile that was shot down was the Kornet ...
      1. melman
        melman 15 July 2014 13: 09
        +11
        Here is the video about which the news
        1. Muadipus
          Muadipus 15 July 2014 13: 23
          +5
          Do not understand.
          creates something similar to an electronic canopy surrounding the car from all directions. The device detects an anti-tank missile in advance, identifies it and destroys it before it manages to reach the armor.

          Please explain what does an electronic canopy destroy a rocket mean? does a rocket explode in an electronic field? or are missiles mounted on the tank that hit an anti-tank missile?
          1. Nayhas
            Nayhas 15 July 2014 13: 27
            +4
            Quote: Muadipus
            Please explain what does an electronic canopy destroy a rocket mean?

            A sensor system, this probably was meant ... well, and a control system for the striking elements.
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 15 July 2014 13: 27
            +1
            Quote: Muadipus

            Please explain what does an electronic canopy destroy a rocket mean? does a rocket explode in an electronic field? or are missiles mounted on the tank that hit an anti-tank missile?

            Shock core
            1. Muadipus
              Muadipus 15 July 2014 13: 37
              0
              Nayhas, Pimpy Thanks.
            2. cosmos111
              cosmos111 15 July 2014 14: 05
              +2
              the first use of the KAZ "Trophy" in Israel dates back to 2011 ..

              KAZ "Trophy" does not give a 100% guarantee, if the MBT Mk 4 armor will not be broken !!!!
              it depends, first of all, on the power of the most tandem warhead ATGM system ....

              but, even after breaking through the main armor, serious damage to the tank will not be inflicted ...
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 15 July 2014 14: 10
                +2
                Quote: cosmos111
                KAZ "Trophy" does not give a 100% guarantee, if the MBT Mk 4 armor will not be broken !!!!
                it depends, first of all, on the power of the most tandem warhead ATGM system ....

                On the 1 of March, to be more precise, they fired from an RPG.
                20 of March shmalnuli cornet
                1. bmv04636
                  bmv04636 15 July 2014 14: 45
                  +3
                  depends not only on the power of the warhead but also the intensity of the battle
          3. LaGlobal
            LaGlobal 15 July 2014 13: 38
            +5
            Quote: Muadipus
            Do not understand.
            creates something similar to an electronic canopy surrounding the car from all directions. The device detects an anti-tank missile in advance, identifies it and destroys it before it manages to reach the armor.

            Please explain what does an electronic canopy destroy a rocket mean? does a rocket explode in an electronic field? or are missiles mounted on the tank that hit an anti-tank missile?


            - I will join in dullness. + to everything, I immediately remembered the film "War of the Worlds", which starred Tom Cruise. There were such tripod legs, everyone was burned with lasers, but not a single shell could hit them. Like they were surrounded by an electromagnetic field ... But this protection was neutralized by ordinary terrestrial bacteria wassat lol

            - Does Merkava have such protection? ))))
            1. Pilat2009
              Pilat2009 15 July 2014 15: 24
              +1
              Quote: LaGlobal
              Type they were surrounded by an electromagnetic field ... But ordinary Earth bacteria neutralized this defense

              Speaking from a scientific point of view, it’s not electromagnetic but power, although if electromagnets control iron particles, it can be called so. And it turned off because the pilot died
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. goose
              goose 15 July 2014 16: 34
              +3
              Nothing of the kind is worth it, of course.

              I spoke with one IDF soldier, a physicist, he strongly doubted the possibility of adopting Arena-type systems, because the infantry squad operates in the immediate vicinity of the tank, and the operation of such a system could harm the surrounding infantry. This means that they were very frightened by the ATGM, since such a thing was installed. I am waiting for comments from our Israeli colleagues.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 15 July 2014 19: 36
                +4
                Our infantry was not actually approaching the tanks.
                More recently, there was a classic English tactic:
                the infantry attacks on foot scattered, followed by 50 meters behind it.
                One or two support tanks relied on the company.
                But if you had to go through a heavily shot area,
                then the infantry was allowed to hide behind the hull of the tank.
                With the advent of these KAZs, tactics should also change.
                But this must be asked young, I do not know.
          4. Hermes
            Hermes 15 July 2014 19: 12
            +2
            Quote: Muadipus
            Please explain what does an electronic canopy destroy a rocket mean? does a rocket explode in an electronic field? or are missiles mounted on the tank that hit an anti-tank missile?

            Trophy uses many shock micronuclei.



            http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_STORAGE/FILES/5/1155.pdf
          5. Zerkalo
            Zerkalo 15 July 2014 21: 53
            0
            Does the initiation of warhead occur? It’s a little incomprehensible, indeed, the principle.
        2. Lexx
          Lexx 15 July 2014 13: 45
          +7
          I see the activation of the active protection element. Here is the triggering of the KAZ Arena element - undermining what happens with the letter O

          But was there just enough strength of the KAZ element to destroy ATGMs?
          1. cosmos111
            cosmos111 15 July 2014 14: 13
            +4
            Quote: Lexx
            But was there just enough strength of the KAZ element to destroy ATGMs?

            this is where KAZ and DZ are needed (just not as "bald" as on the "modernized" T-72 B3))))))

            the use of KAZ and DZ, give the necessary result, protect MBT, from almost all anti-tank systems .....

            several hits on the side of the "Abrams" MBT with penetration, DZ and main armor ...
          2. Muadipus
            Muadipus 15 July 2014 15: 16
            +2
            I understand that there is no interception of a rocket. The idea is to create a blast wave in the path of the rocket, as a result of which it undermines. In. as. Moreover, as I understand it, against anti-caliber shells, this thing will not help.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 15 July 2014 15: 33
              0
              Quote: Muadipus
              At the same time, as I understand it, against anti-caliber shells, this thing will not help.

              No, it won’t help. Another system is being developed against them, iron fist
      2. And Us Rat
        And Us Rat 15 July 2014 13: 42
        0
        ShturmKGB
        In another article I read that the missile that was shot down was the Kornet ...

        It was a couple of years ago that they shot down today - it is still unknown. By the way, this is the second case in the last week, a couple of days ago the patrol car of the border guards was fired upon, the KAZ also worked, only another. ("Iron Fist" is put on light vehicles, and "Trophy" only on tanks)
    2. Committee
      Committee 15 July 2014 13: 28
      +2
      Arena, Thrush.
      1. MAGGNUM
        MAGGNUM 15 July 2014 13: 50
        +8
        Is it hard for you to google something?

        Designed to protect tanks from anti-tank missiles. The system creates a protected hemisphere above the tank, tracking potential threats with the help of radars and destroying anti-tank missiles launched by the machine.

        Scheme of action - a special detector determines where the fire is being fired from, then the on-board computer calculates the flight path of the ammunition and gives a command to the device, which destroys it on approach.

        It consists of radars that detect and identify anti-tank guided missiles and rocket-propelled grenades, fire launchers that fire interceptors that destroy the warhead before it strikes. Elta radar of the Russian company, associated with four antennas located on the front and aft parts and sides of the platform and providing protection in the 360 ​​° sector, and two mechanisms developed by Rafael for the destruction of flying weapons placed on each side platforms.

        The basic version, designed for installation on Merkava tanks, weighs 771 kg and has an automatic reloading system. Trophy Light (ASPRO-AL), which can be equipped with various armored vehicles weighing 15-30 tons, also has an automatic reloading system, a reduced launcher and weighs 454 kg. Trophy Ultra-Light (ASPRO-A-UL), designed for lighter vehicles, weighs only 270 kg, has only a few "anti-shells" and is not equipped with an automatic reloading system.

        The system is able to repel several attacks simultaneously from different sides. hi
    3. dervis 65
      dervis 65 15 July 2014 21: 05
      0
      Well, and a stupid person once unbelievable!
    4. dervis 65
      dervis 65 15 July 2014 21: 05
      0
      Well, and a stupid person once unbelievable!
  3. Andrew 447
    Andrew 447 15 July 2014 12: 59
    +1
    A very controversial statement and the video does not have the state of Carrots after the operation of KAZ.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 15 July 2014 13: 12
      0
      Quote: Andrey 447
      A very controversial statement and the video does not have the state of Carrots after the operation of KAZ.
      They hide something (c) And scary eyes do o_O
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 15 July 2014 13: 32
      +3
      Quote: Andrew 447
      A very controversial statement and the video does not have the state of Carrots after the operation of KAZ.

      And what is there to look at? KAZ intercepts a rocket a few meters from the tank. Here's the video for you - it has a slow-motion shooting of the KAZ response.
      1. Andrew 447
        Andrew 447 15 July 2014 15: 41
        +2
        Yes, on the layout, but in the advertising and presentation video, you can show a lot. I have a question-whether this protection worked about six months ago when an armored personnel carrier drove past Carrot?
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 15 July 2014 15: 45
          +1
          Quote: Andrey 447
          My question is, did this defense work about six months ago when an armored personnel carrier drove past Morkovka?

          She, there was an incident. Since then, this has not been repeated
          1. Andrew 447
            Andrew 447 15 July 2014 17: 14
            +3
            That is, now armored personnel carriers do not go near or when they turn off KAZ nearby? This is not humor, this is my healthy skepticism. There is a question. In case of artillery ammunition detonation at 5-10 m from Carrot, how does KAZ react to fragments and shock wave? My questions as a professional (former) tanker are not easy. In my understanding, Morkovka is not a MBT, it is a BTT and a means of fire support for police operations against rebels who do not have a BTT and with a low TCP density. Under conditions of maintaining a database with comparable enemy forces and equipment, these KAZs, like pubic hair, cover, but do not protect. Although the desire to protect the crews is commendable.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 15 July 2014 22: 51
              +3
              So I wonder why the former tanker suspected that Merkava -
              not MBT? What elements of MBT are missing in Merkava? There is: 120 mm gun,
              strong (and modern cermet) passive armor, advanced SLA,
              1500 horsepower engine provides good mobility, 5-speed gearbox
              makes it possible to make jerks, the suspension gives a smooth ride. Merkava has a good
              sand and mud patency. What was missing?
              Plus, the Merkava has "bonuses": the ability to take 2-4 people landing, KAZ,
              the armor of the sides and the roof of the tower is more than 20 cm ... Not enough?
            2. Pimply
              Pimply 16 July 2014 00: 43
              +1
              Quote: Andrey 447
              That is, now armored personnel carriers do not go nearby or when they disconnect nearby KAZ?

              What stupid thing? There are always glitches in new systems. A single glitch surfaced in one case - they checked it, fixed it.
  4. Syrdon
    Syrdon 15 July 2014 12: 59
    +9
    In Russia, this is also there for quite some time. Her name is Arena
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 15 July 2014 13: 12
      +2
      Quote: Syrdon
      In Russia, this is also there for quite some time. Her name is Arena

      The arena still remains at the prototype level
      1. bmv04636
        bmv04636 15 July 2014 13: 25
        +4
        Arena-E is placed on the T-90AM tank
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 15 July 2014 13: 29
          +3
          Can be installed and installed - different things
          1. bmv04636
            bmv04636 15 July 2014 13: 37
            0
            we have, as always, the issue of financing
          2. bmv04636
            bmv04636 15 July 2014 15: 20
            0
            the T90AM (SM) tank is equipped with the KAZ Arena-E system; the question is whether this tank is in the arsenal of the Russian army and in what quantity, if any
            1. Aleks tv
              Aleks tv 15 July 2014 15: 32
              +3
              Quote: bmv04636
              the KAZ Arena-E system is included in the configuration of the T90AM (SM) tank

              Maxim, a little controversial statement ...
              The T-90AM (SM) is equipped with an optoelectronic system from anti-tank weapons with laser GSN or LD.
              Arena-E CAN to be included in the package.

              Quote: bmv04636
              is there a tank in service with the army of the Russian Federation and in what quantity if any

              1-2 machines at UVZ in the MS version. Rides on exhibitions. It seems that one has already been dismantled (connected with Armata).
              My last statement is an assumption, I hope more knowledgeable me correct.
              1. bmv04636
                bmv04636 15 July 2014 15: 50
                0
                it's like in a modern car pay and get
                As I understand it, our military had claims to Kaz Arena-E that it works poorly in the upper sphere
      2. BYV
        BYV 15 July 2014 13: 31
        +1
        Basically, you are right. KAZ "Arena" was created a long time ago, and by now it has been fully developed. However, our armored vehicles are still not equipped with it.
    2. serega.fedotov
      serega.fedotov 15 July 2014 13: 19
      +1
      Quote: Syrdon
      In Russia, this is also there for quite some time. Her name is Arena

      If I am not mistaken, the first active systems of protection were installed on T62 (thrush).
      And the Israeli system, as it was said, "surrounds the tank with an electromagnetic" canopy "" - that is, just against non-abreks with outdated grenade launchers - for more "advanced" opponents, this "device" is of little use, since it unmasks the tank (in the radio range) at a great distance.
      Also, you can probably direct weapons to the "exposure" from the "windbreaker"
      1. And Us Rat
        And Us Rat 15 July 2014 13: 28
        +4
        Quote: serega.fedotov
        If I am not mistaken, the first active systems of protection were installed on T62 (thrush).
        And the Israeli system, as they say, "surrounds the tank with an electromagnetic" canopy "

        FAQ belay Are there torsion fields by chance? wassat

        Everything is much more prosaic, the tank is equipped with mini-radars and a "blizzard" of interceptor grenades.
        1. serega.fedotov
          serega.fedotov 15 July 2014 14: 28
          +1
          Quote: And Us Rat
          FAQ Are there torsion fields by chance?

          For what I bought, and for that I sell! I did not accidentally remember the "thrush" - he was the forerunner of modern systems, only he acted in the front hemisphere of the tower (where the tower looks there and sews up)
        2. Uncle
          Uncle 15 July 2014 14: 45
          +4
          Quote: And Us Rat
          Are there torsion fields by chance?

          Radar is precisely the source of the EMP. On the radar signal, German submarines were found in World War II, they controlled the sky, being afraid of planes, and they found them just by "detecting" the radar signal, like we were traffic cops.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 15 July 2014 13: 30
        +1
        Quote: serega.fedotov
        And the Israeli system, as it was said, "surrounds the tank with an electromagnetic" canopy "" - that is, just against non-abreks with outdated grenade launchers - for more "advanced" opponents, this "device" is of little use, since it unmasks the tank (in the radio range) at a great distance.

        Tell me, can this be somehow more clearly arranged?
        1. serega.fedotov
          serega.fedotov 15 July 2014 14: 23
          +6
          Quote: Pimply
          Tell me, can this be somehow more clearly arranged?

          Radars that create a "security sphere" can not "make noise" in the radio range_And that means they can be spotted and targeted!
          Eat system sharpened against the enemy of the most advanced electronic warfare systems, and high-precision weapons
          P, C Clearly put together is for philologists, But I’m sorry I didn’t visit the academies! (I have forgotten everything for a long time)
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 15 July 2014 14: 31
            +2
            Quote: serega.fedotov
            , And I’m sorry I didn’t visit the academies! (I have forgotten everything for a long time)

            Why academy? You are leading a discussion, there should be a thought, not a set of phrases. Could in the last comment explain what you are talking about.

            And now we consider the situation that Merkava, too, in this case, is not in splendid isolation, but as part of a modern high-tech army
            1. serega.fedotov
              serega.fedotov 15 July 2014 21: 13
              +1
              Quote: Pimply
              And now we consider the situation that Merkava, too, in this case, is not in splendid isolation, but as part of a modern high-tech army

              But it’s scary to think about it: at first it’s mochilov, and in 5-6 days (the United States in Iraq lowered almost the entire stock of "tomahawks" in less than a month, and how much of that Iraqi was after being strangled by the sankts?) When all the "technological" ends will start classic-MSL in hand and go!
              Of course, I exaggerate, but what happens if countries of the same level, armed with the most modern (read really untested) weapons, fight, no one will tell!
              PS For Pupyrchaty: Do not be offended, they told me that my humor is very specific! With sincere respect hi
      3. Dmitry Toderes
        Dmitry Toderes 15 July 2014 14: 38
        0
        Quote: serega.fedotov
        Quote: Syrdon
        In Russia, this is also there for quite some time. Her name is Arena

        If I am not mistaken, the first active systems of protection were installed on T62 (thrush).
        And the Israeli system, as it was said, "surrounds the tank with an electromagnetic" canopy "" - that is, just against non-abreks with outdated grenade launchers - for more "advanced" opponents, this "device" is of little use, since it unmasks the tank (in the radio range) at a great distance.
        Also, you can probably direct weapons to the "exposure" from the "windbreaker"


        What !? Well, I heard in Russia they invented a prototype of a future air defense system (there was news on the site - I don’t remember what it’s called), which destroys a rocket (it burns all the sensors in its nose) with a directed microwave beam - this is possible from the point of view of physics; but what you write is fantasy. Have you played enough in Star Wars or in the Supreme commander?
  5. Giant thought
    Giant thought 15 July 2014 12: 59
    +3
    A good windbreaker came from the Israelis.
  6. Natalia
    Natalia 15 July 2014 12: 59
    +3
    I wonder ........ how does it work?
    Is this something like a “Blind” optical-electronic suppression system? how on the t-90?
    1. Grenader
      Grenader 15 July 2014 13: 10
      +5
      Quote: Natalia
      Is this something like a “Blind” optical-electronic suppression system? how on the t-90?

      Yes. Trophy was created by engineers who left for Israel from Russia, who had previously worked on the "Arena". "Curtain" is a slightly different device, it interferes with the enemy's aiming at the tank.
      1. Natalia
        Natalia 15 July 2014 13: 16
        +5
        Quote: Grenader
        Trophy was created by engineers who left for Israel from Russia, who had previously worked on the "Arena".

        Ahhhh, well, lose winked it is clear where all the praise israeli achievements lol ))))))

        PS
        Israelis do not worry, I'm just kidding ... winked
        1. Olkass
          Olkass 15 July 2014 14: 48
          +3
          Yes, they do not take a steam bath. As they stole, they steal.
          Take the Galil submachine gun. Kaklashnikov, a little perfected.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 15 July 2014 14: 51
            +6
            Quote: Olkass
            Take the Galil submachine gun. Kaklashnikov, a little perfected.

            And now we recall that, unlike most AK clones, Galil is an official clone (purchased through sublicensing), with a bunch of his original solutions, and the continuity from AK does not hide 8)
            1. bmv04636
              bmv04636 15 July 2014 15: 04
              +2
              please tell me the license for a vigorous bomb has already been bought
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 15 July 2014 15: 10
                -1
                Quote: bmv04636
                please tell me the license for a vigorous bomb has already been bought

                First, it is not known for certain whether Israel has a nuclear bomb or not.
                And secondly, this unknown nuclear bomb is a product of cooperation between Israel and France. France provided part of its technology, Israel responded with a cheap technology for producing heavy water
            2. Olkass
              Olkass 15 July 2014 16: 45
              +2
              As one of my friends used to say - Among thieves everything should be honest.
        2. Praetorian
          Praetorian 15 July 2014 15: 02
          +2
          Yes. Jews lived in Russia, made us an Arena, then left for Israel and made themselves a Trophy. Stick on. wink
      2. Natalia
        Natalia 15 July 2014 13: 24
        +2
        I would really like to clarify one point ..... winked it says that
        The device detects an anti-tank missile in advance, identifies it and destroys it before it manages to reach the armor.

        That is ....... that specifically destroys the shell what ?
        Something like ...... request Mlyn, force field (neither field a, electronic canopy) ...... what an electronic canopy.
        what what happens, some kind of electronic canopy is capable of breaking a rocket? What then is the power of this radiation? request
        And lope the tank, you need energy to actually develop such a field ... ???

        That is, I wonder what specifically contributes to the undermining of the rocket itself?

        For example, HAARP in Alaska is capable of breaking a rocket flying above itself. But the power of HAARP is not comparable with the power of a tank .....
        ...... explain someone, I do not understand request
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 15 July 2014 13: 31
          0
          Quote: Natalia
          Something similar to ...... Mlyn, force field (neither field a, electronic canopy) ...... what for an electronic canopy.
          what happens, some kind of electronic canopy is capable of breaking a rocket? What then is the power of this radiation?

          Would you even read something about the system before you talk about it
          1. Natalia
            Natalia 15 July 2014 13: 52
            +2
            Quote: Pimply
            Would you even read something about the system before you talk about it

            Dear, I am on a site that does not tell you what is called? Military Review ...... and this is only in the first place.
            Further. My dear friend, I specifically didn’t in any way oblige me to explain something. The world is not without good people, there is someone. And if you are lazy, then my little request can calmly do without your comments.
            But as I understand it, you just can't wait to show off.
            And therefore, dear friend, dump. wink Yeah?)
            Well done)
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 15 July 2014 14: 07
              +2
              Quote: Natalia
              And therefore, dear friend, dump. Yeah?)

              Good girl, dumbfounded. AND? Does this somehow detract from the amount of nonsense you generate a la just to shout, maybe they pat everyone?
              There is such a thing - a search engine. It helps to reduce the amount of nonsense, because it helps to find information on the issue from various sources. But this, as I understand it, is weak
              1. Natalia
                Natalia 15 July 2014 14: 18
                +5
                Quote: Pimply
                Good girl, dumbfounded. AND? Does this somehow detract from the amount of nonsense you generate a la just to shout, maybe they pat everyone?

                no, the point is not that, you are really a very harmful and nasty citizen .... No.
                This can be seen from your various comments, from which it follows that you communicate with many forum users very boldly, and sometimes just disgustingly .... there is no elementary respect for the interlocutors sad
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 15 July 2014 14: 27
                  0
                  Quote: Natalia
                  no, the point is not that, you are really a very harmful and nasty citizen ....

                  I do not like idle talk and stupidity; What can I do? Called a cargo - climb into the back.
                  Quote: Natalia
                  there is no elementary respect for the interlocutors

                  Respect must be earned, not handed out for beautiful eyes. I am for gender equality. You will start to say smart things, before you blurt out something on the topic, read a dozen articles on it - that will be your respect. And with "I'm a girl, what I want and say" - go to the Cosmo forum. There will not be as rude as I am.
                  1. Natalia
                    Natalia 15 July 2014 14: 57
                    0
                    Quote: Pimply
                    There will not be so rude as me.

                    And you will not be here winked
                    Well, that is ...... not quite so ....
                    But to me that now, to bicker with you.
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 15 July 2014 14: 58
                      +3
                      Quote: Natalia
                      And you will not be here

                      Wait and see
                2. bif
                  bif 15 July 2014 15: 16
                  +2
                  Quote: Natalia
                  there is no elementary respect for the interlocutors
              2. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 15 July 2014 18: 51
                +3
                Quote: Pimply
                Good girl, dumbfounded.

                And punted, Zhenya is beautiful! So no one has sent you yet! And most importantly - reasonably!
                Quote: Pimply
                There is such a thing - a search engine.

                As the girl told you, this is Military Review, and involves live communication of competent people (to which I do not rank myself). It seems to me that the question was designed for this, and the search engine is a long search for boilerplate information. And you as usual (saying) laughing ) - in each .... barrel a gag.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 15 July 2014 20: 48
                  0
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  And punted, Zhenya is beautiful! So no one has sent you yet! And most importantly - reasonably!

                  Is there anything beautiful about Ponte? This is usually an attempt to cover up the lack of argument.

                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  As the girl told you, this is a military review, and involves live communication of competent people (to which I do not rank myself).

                  Live communication does not mean stupid hat-throwing


                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  and the search engine is a long search for boilerplate information.

                  You can start at least with this.
            2. Goalkeeper
              Goalkeeper 15 July 2014 14: 53
              -10%
              Quote: Natalia
              Quote: Pimply
              Would you even read something about the system before you talk about it

              Dear, I am on a site that does not tell you what is called? Military Review ...... and this is only in the first place.
              Further. My dear friend, I specifically didn’t in any way oblige me to explain something. The world is not without good people, there is someone. And if you are lazy, then my little request can calmly do without your comments.
              But as I understand it, you just can't wait to show off.
              And therefore, dear friend, dump. wink Yeah?)
              Well done)

              Natalia, you are sick! You need a doctor ... Dr. Dick!
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 15 July 2014 15: 00
                +3
                Quote: Goalkeeper
                Natalia, you are sick! You need a doctor ... Dr. Dick!

                More polite, dear. The fact that the interlocutor (in this case mine) says obvious nonsense and snarls (which is generally understandable) is not a reason for outright rudeness. Especially if the interlocutor is a lady
              2. Aleks tv
                Aleks tv 15 July 2014 15: 07
                +4
                Quote: Goalkeeper
                Natalia, you are sick! Do you need a doctor ...

                Search, Goalkeeper.

                One minus mine.
                1. velikoros-xnumx
                  velikoros-xnumx 15 July 2014 23: 54
                  0
                  Quote: Aleks tv
                  One minus mine.

                  one more mine, but pimply a couple of minuses earlier on the comment:
                  Quote: Aleks tv
                  More polite, dear. The fact that the interlocutor (in this case mine) says obvious nonsense and snarls (which is generally understandable) is not a reason for outright rudeness. Especially if the interlocutor is a lady

                  I’m surprisingly giving you a plus. Views by views, opinions by opinions, and upbringing has not been canceled. One thing is harsh irony, and quite another outright rudeness.
                  Do not consider it a sneak, but it is for this that I respect the professor - he never switches to banal rudeness.
                  1. Aleks tv
                    Aleks tv 16 July 2014 01: 55
                    0
                    Quote: velikoros-xnumx
                    I’m surprisingly giving you a plus.

                    Michael, this is not my quote ...
                    It happens.
                    wink
                    1. velikoros-xnumx
                      velikoros-xnumx 16 July 2014 22: 14
                      0
                      Quote: Aleks tv
                      Michael, this is not my quote ...
                      It happens.

                      Yes, yes, I incorrectly inserted the quote, the phrase is pimply, and your signature is obtained. I apologize hi Commentary related to pimply.
              3. ssskalinin
                ssskalinin 15 July 2014 15: 43
                +1
                Dear, you would find out your relationship in PM! Do not litter the network
                1. Natalia
                  Natalia 15 July 2014 16: 14
                  0
                  Quote: ssskalinin
                  Dear, you would find out your relationship in PM! Do not litter the network

                  Do not litter the air, go to another wave .... want to say lol ))))
                  Yes Yes....)
              4. The comment was deleted.
            3. velikoros-xnumx
              velikoros-xnumx 15 July 2014 23: 43
              0
              Quote: Natalia
              And therefore, dear friend, dump. wink yeah?)
              Well done)


              Ah well done. Immediately you can see ours - and the horse on the gallop, and ... pimpled for the belt hi .
        2. Grenader
          Grenader 15 July 2014 13: 35
          +2
          Quote: Natalia
          Something similar to ...... request Mlyn, force field (neither field a, electronic canopy) ...... what for an electronic canopy.
          what is it, what kind of electronic canopy can break a rocket? What then is the power of this radiation?

          There is no force field. The "Trophy" system does not work on the same principles as our "Arena", the difference in striking elements.
        3. Nayhas
          Nayhas 15 July 2014 13: 40
          +2
          Quote: Natalia
          That is ....... that specifically destroys the shell

          A warhead with an explosive charge and a "buckshot" charge directed towards the attacking ammunition is detonated upon a signal from the defense system. The protective system consists of sensors located on the tank hull or on a separate rod. Usually they use a mm-range radar station capable of quickly identifying an approaching nasty thing, this is the very "electronic field". As a result, the anti-tank missile or rocket-propelled grenade is destroyed because the material from which they are usually made is aluminum ... a rather thin layer and plastic ... The attacking ammunition may not explode, but it fails and does not pose any more danger ... Another thing is armor-piercing sub-caliber projectile ...
          Quote: Natalia
          For example, HAARP in Alaska is capable of breaking a rocket flying above itself. But the power of HAARP is not comparable with the power of a tank .....

          The construction for the study of the earth’s ionosphere called HAARP cannot cause any harm to objects flying over it. Yes, and closed it recently ...
          1. Natalia
            Natalia 15 July 2014 14: 13
            +2
            Quote: Nayhas
            The construction for the study of the earth’s ionosphere called HAARP cannot cause any harm to objects flying over it. Yes, and closed it recently ...

            I'm afraid you have not quite accurate information ....
            One of the tasks of the HAARP was, quote: "The complex of ionospheric research (HAARP) was built to study the nature of the ionosphere and the development of anti-aircraft and anti-missile defense systems."
            And it’s no secret that the Harp system can heat separate areas of the ionosphere several tens of meters thick. winked
      3. Pimply
        Pimply 15 July 2014 13: 42
        0
        Quote: Grenader
        Yes. Trophy was created by engineers who left for Israel from Russia, who had previously worked on the "Arena"

        Tell me, what kind of nonsense are you talking about? The Israeli military-industrial complex generally has few immigrants from the former USSR.
        1. Nayhas
          Nayhas 15 July 2014 13: 50
          +2
          Quote: Pimply
          Tell me, what kind of nonsense are you talking about? The Israeli military-industrial complex generally has few immigrants from the former USSR.

          Why destroy myths? All the good things in the world were done by the Russians who for some reason fled from their homeland, but those who remained proud of them and consider themselves involved in their achievements. True, the majority of those who escaped seem to be not entirely Russian ... But is this really important? It was in Russia / the USSR that they were lives, fash-mi, chur-mi, hoh-mi, etc. but there, abroad, having achieved great success, they immediately became our Russians!
          1. Flooding
            Flooding 15 July 2014 14: 58
            +4
            Quote: Nayhas
            It was in Russia / the USSR that they were lives, fash-mi, chur-mi, hoh-mi, etc. but there, abroad, having achieved great success, they immediately became our Russians!

            Sometimes it happens that the attitude towards a person depends not on his nationality, but on the amount of crap belched up per unit of time.
        2. bmv04636
          bmv04636 15 July 2014 15: 09
          0
          and generally immigrants from Russia and the USSR can only lie on the stove and hait everyone
      4. And Us Rat
        And Us Rat 15 July 2014 13: 57
        -2
        Quote: Grenader
        Yes. Trophy was created by engineers who left for Israel from Russia, who had previously worked on the "Arena".

        Do not write nonsense. These are two ABSOLUTELY different systems, starting from the range of electronics and radar devices, ending with the way of hitting a target.
        And the Isail engineering school is fundamentally different from the Soviet one.
        1. Michael_59
          Michael_59 15 July 2014 14: 33
          0
          Quote: And Us Rat
          coordinately


          What?
  7. nvn_co
    nvn_co 15 July 2014 13: 00
    +1
    Ha, cool thing! Do we have such a thread?
    1. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 15 July 2014 14: 57
      +6
      Quote: nvn_co
      Do we have such a thread?

      Thrush, Arena, Arena-E.
      Now in the development of Afghanistan.

      KAZ is a rather interesting means of protection and should have been installed on our armored vehicles in LINEAR units long ago.
      Back at the end of the 80, the BTViT teachers did not hide the readiness of the production of these systems in SERIES.

      But KAZ is not a universal panacea. It must be used wisely. based on theater and tactics.
      The IDF in this - well done, this must be recognized.

      Photo Shoot:
      Arena-E at T-72Б3. Nizhny Tagil-2013
      clickable
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 15 July 2014 15: 03
        +2
        Quote: Aleks tv
        Thrush, Arena, Arena-E.

        I'm still interested in the topic with the repeatedly approved, but not confirmed serial production of Drozd. He shone only on one photo from Azerbaijan. Are there any interesting additional data on the system?
        Quote: Aleks tv
        But KAZ is not a universal panacea. It must be used wisely based on the theater of war and tactics.

        absolutely right. Absolute weapons do not exist
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 15 July 2014 15: 09
          +3
          Quote: Pimply
          Are there any interesting additional data on the system?

          Eugene, infa that is.
          But personally, I did not meet them in the LINEAR parts ... maybe it’s just unlucky, because I worked on the T-72B, and not on more cars stuffed with electronics.
          Surely there are in the warehouses of the RAB.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 15 July 2014 15: 13
            0
            Quote: Aleks tv
            But personally, I did not meet them in the LINEAR parts ... maybe it’s just unlucky, because I worked on the T-72B, and not on more cars stuffed with electronics.
            Surely there are in the warehouses of the RAB.

            The devil knows him. I dig, I ask. Often I come across OBS, and the real information on the issue - the cat burst into tears (quantity, application, etc.). There are a lot of rumors, and from the reliable - one photo
    2. Praetorian
      Praetorian 15 July 2014 15: 06
      0
      Yes there is something like this
  8. Ivar
    Ivar 15 July 2014 13: 01
    0
    Well that is like our "Arena".
  9. Gorjelin
    Gorjelin 15 July 2014 13: 03
    0
    Quote: DEZINTO
    Well, straight Star Craft of some kind. ... Well then, if success really works then. Well done.

    well proton protos shield
  10. Wolka
    Wolka 15 July 2014 13: 03
    +2
    the most interesting, but we already have something similar, is undergoing tests, but everything is classified, you can’t say ... hi
  11. tilix
    tilix 15 July 2014 13: 04
    +4
    Anti-tank missiles - must be negotiated - Cornet
  12. Tan4ik
    Tan4ik 15 July 2014 13: 04
    +4
    We all guess whose article this is. lol
  13. Gorbtk
    Gorbtk 15 July 2014 13: 04
    +1
    But technically, what destroys it - by the wind or something ... An article on the verge of rumors ...
    1. adept666
      adept666 15 July 2014 13: 08
      0
      Most likely a cloud of damaging elements, as in the Russian Arena.
    2. kergudu straight
      kergudu straight 15 July 2014 13: 12
      +1
      As I understand it, the grenade was destroyed by the pressure drop, when a flying rocket was detected, the crew triggered a point-and-click reflex and, after a joint bunch, created an excess of pressure, stronger than the granite dome, which any rocket simply could not overcome
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 15 July 2014 13: 31
        +6
        Quote: Kergudo Straight
        As I understand it, the grenade was destroyed by the pressure drop, when a flying rocket was detected, the crew triggered a point-and-click reflex and, after a joint bunch, created an excess of pressure, stronger than the granite dome, which any rocket simply could not overcome

        Ingenious. Where to award a prize for the best joke?
  14. Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 15 July 2014 13: 07
    +7
    Well, we can congratulate the Israeli military-industrial complex with another success. The Israelis took into account the mistakes of the operation in Lebanon, when it was the "Cornet" that caused the main losses to the Israeli "Merkavas" and created an "antidote", how effective it will be in the future, but as one labeled one said: "The process has begun" ...

    It should be noted that the USSR possessed such technologies back in 1983 (the Drozd system and the later Arena systems) The head developer of the Arena system is the Kolomna Machine Building Design Bureau. Chief Designer - Nikolai Ivanovich Gushchin.
    A multifunctional radar with an "instant" view of the space in the entire protected sector and high noise immunity provides a search for targets flying to the tank. Then the station is transferred to the auto tracking mode, generating the parameters of the target’s movement and transmitting them to the computer, which selects the number of protective ammunition and the time of its operation. Protective ammunition forms a bunch of damaging elements that destroy the target on approaching the tank. The time from target detection to its defeat is no more than 0,07 seconds. In 0,2-0,4 seconds after a protective shot, the complex is again ready to “shoot” another target. Each protective munition fires at its sector, and the sectors of nearby ammunition overlap, which ensures the interception of several targets approaching from one direction. The complex is all-weather and "all-day", it is able to work when the tank is moving, when turning the tower. An important problem that the developers of the complex successfully resolved was the electromagnetic compatibility of several tanks equipped with the Arena and operating in a single group.

    The T-80UM-1 tank with KAZ Arena was first publicly demonstrated in Omsk in the fall of the 1997 of the year.

    In addition to tanks, the Arena system can be installed on other armored vehicles, such as the BMP-3.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 15 July 2014 13: 32
      +1
      Nevertheless, the system still has not gone into production.
      1. Roman 1977
        Roman 1977 15 July 2014 13: 52
        +3
        The Drozd active defense system was the first of its kind to use a radar. Shells and missiles arriving at 70-700 / sec speeds were tracked by radar modules in the mm wave spectrum mounted on the sides of the tower. KAZ "Drozd" had 107-mm 9kg rocket-launchers, which were placed in 2 cartridges of four launch mines to cover the sector between them in 80 city. The rocket was selected by computer. The missiles had a fuse, driving them at a distance of 7 meters from the armored car. The resulting fragments destroyed the missile, or deformed its cumulative warhead so that the efficiency fell significantly.

        KAZ "Drozd" on T-80U


        launchers KAZ "Drozd"
        Work on KAZ Drozd at the beginning of the 1990's, however, a similar system appeared on the T-1997 in 80, and after 2, they informed about the modernized version of the Drozd-2.
        T-72М1М (T-72М1К; object 172М2, not to be confused with the object “Buffalo” 172-М2 / 172М-2М) - an export modernization of the T-72М1 tank equipped with a satellite navigation system, a new automated control system. Initially, KAZT Arena was equipped with a mixed DZ complex, Contact 5 on the VLD, and Relikt on the tower (then the tank was probably just a running model), later the full complex of Relic DZ was installed, and KAZT Arena was removed .
        Modernization of the T-72 tank (armored protection)


        But our tank builders took a different path, so on the T-90 of the first series (“Object 188”), a set of optical-electronic suppression system “Shtora-1” was installed, similar to that installed on the T-80, providing the tank with protection against the most common guided anti-tank weapons, such as ATGMs with command semi-automatic guidance systems such as "TOW", "Hot", "Milan", "Dragon" and weapons with laser homing heads such as "Maverick", "Hellfire", "Copperhead" due to the creation of active interference with their guidance . 2 floodlights TShU-1-7 / 7M create interference in the infrared range, sights and GOS.

        In addition, as you know, the production of the T-80 was discontinued in 1998, and it was decided to focus on the production of the modernized T-72. Let's see what will be installed on the "Armata"
        1. Evgeny_Lev
          Evgeny_Lev 15 July 2014 15: 28
          0
          Below I suggested using a tandem EMP charge + commutative warhead against all this electronic "junk".

          The EMP warhead is triggered earlier than the striking warhead, disables the radars, the equipped warhead strikes the target.
    2. MACCABI TLV
      MACCABI TLV 15 July 2014 21: 29
      +2
      judging by the drawn diagram, if ATGM is flying into the roof, then Arena will not destroy it ??? !!!
  15. cosmos111
    cosmos111 15 July 2014 13: 12
    +14
    that, excellent KAZ, we have a field of "modernization" not one T-72 B3, did not receive, KAZ "Arena" .....

    here, the difference to the lives of tank soldiers here in Russia and in them, in Israel ...
    1. Tan4ik
      Tan4ik 15 July 2014 13: 14
      -5
      are you from the wrong places?
      1. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 15 July 2014 15: 02
        +10
        Quote: Tan4ik
        are you from the wrong places?

        Are you talking about cosmos111 ???
        laughing
        I dare to assure you, Boris, that NO.

        I know Andrey well personally.

        And to the success of the IDF, I, as a Soviet and Russian tanker, also respectfully, especially to the safety of the lives of the crews.
        And there is nothing wrong with that.
    2. bmv04636
      bmv04636 15 July 2014 13: 26
      +1
      The windbreaker is placed only on Merkava Mk4
    3. The Art of War
      The Art of War 15 July 2014 17: 27
      +2
      hi Andrey! Yes, the Arena is not visible on the modernized tanks and BMP-3 and BMD-4 recourse I somehow read that the Arena is a little expensive request And so the system is very necessary for military equipment yes ! Ideally, put the Arena and Curtain!
      1. The Art of War
        The Art of War 15 July 2014 17: 30
        +2
        The necessary protection system!
        1. The Art of War
          The Art of War 15 July 2014 17: 33
          +1
          Video to be continued!
  16. goose
    goose 15 July 2014 13: 13
    +1
    Quote: tilix
    Anti-tank missiles - must be negotiated - Cornet

    Does it need to be understood that against AGM-65, AGM-114, BGM-71, 9M120, 9M121, 9K14, 9M17, 9K113, 9K115, 9K111, PARS-3, ATGW-3LR, SPIKE, M-47, Javelin, Eryx etc. Does this system not work?
    1. tilix
      tilix 15 July 2014 13: 20
      +2
      You need to understand that the rocket launched - cornetwhich Hamas had high hopes for. And nothing else. The rest are out of the question.
  17. kirqiz ssr
    kirqiz ssr 15 July 2014 13: 14
    -5
    Cornet can be thrown into the landfill in this case.
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 15 July 2014 18: 05
      +3
      Quote: Kirqiz SSR
      Cornet can be thrown into the landfill in this case.

      Why on earth? Modern weapons with enormous potential. By the way, as events in Ukraine show, even Mosinka is quite a serious weapon in capable hands.
  18. ilya_oz
    ilya_oz 15 July 2014 13: 15
    0
    How is the type of rocket known? In this video, the tank is hard to see.
    1. Professor
      Professor 15 July 2014 14: 27
      +1
      Quote: ilya_oz
      How is the type of rocket known? In this video, the tank is hard to see.

      They identified it from the remains.
  19. sgt. List
    sgt. List 15 July 2014 13: 22
    0
    If I am not mistaken, then the TShU-1-7 system is also installed on our tanks. He worked in 2012 at its production. SKB "Zenith" In Zelenograd collects. Quoting from their website:
    "For individual protection of armored vehicles from anti-tank missile
    complexes (ATGM) such as "Fagot", "Konkurs", "TOU", "Hot", "Milan", "Dragon", "Cobra", "AT-3" and others, using a semi-automatic guidance system in the infrared range , the station of optoelectronic countermeasures TSHU-1-7 is intended. The principle of operation of the TSHU-1-7 station is to put infrared noise interference into the ATGM control loop, which significantly reduces the likelihood of missiles hitting the protected object. "

    http://skb-zenit.ru/component/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,2/
  20. KALININGRAD
    KALININGRAD 15 July 2014 13: 23
    0
    Sholomov most likely ....... in Russian

    Do not swear, otherwise we will remove Vadivak
    1. DanG73
      DanG73 15 July 2014 13: 35
      0
      Quote: KALININGRAD
      Sholomov probably sp .... stayed with the Russians


      Is it just what would insert koment?
      Look at the performance characteristics and note that the "windbreaker" and "arena" work on different principles
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. sssla
        sssla 15 July 2014 13: 57
        0
        Quote: DanG73
        work on different principles

        On different??? Well, at least a few words explain on what different
  21. VNP1958PVN
    VNP1958PVN 15 July 2014 13: 27
    0
    Advertising and anti-advertising is the engine of trade!
  22. Bombardier
    Bombardier 15 July 2014 13: 28
    0
    I don’t see anything surprising here. Israel is constantly on high alert.
    This is the reason for the mobilization (training) of not only the personnel of the Armed Forces, but also the military-industrial complex. I saw something interesting, get it, improve it and introduce it in your country! This is what the USSR did before, and rightly so! I will say one thing - we relaxed. The world does not stand still, you should not be shy to learn from the same Israelis, Americans, British, Germans, French, etc. - choose the best, bring your own and there will be a peaceful sky for us.
    1. STALGRAD76
      STALGRAD76 15 July 2014 14: 17
      +1
      The crap is that we all have these systems, but it's not cheap .......
      1. MACCABI TLV
        MACCABI TLV 15 July 2014 21: 31
        +1
        Is tanker's life cheap? request
  23. sgt. List
    sgt. List 15 July 2014 13: 29
    +3
    Optoelectronic counteraction station TShU-1-7M
    1. tor11121
      tor11121 15 July 2014 13: 41
      0
      oh real machine! ADVERTISING DOES NOT NEED!
  24. bmv04636
    bmv04636 15 July 2014 13: 31
    +1
    congratulate the professor on the initiative. True, there was an article about the Chinese third-generation ATGM as I understand the tests will be conducted just in Palestine.
    And let the Cornet developers think how to break through the windbreaker. Although the technology is the first high-explosive rocket with shrapnel made of tungsten balls that is blown up to a distance of about 30-50 meters from the KAZ missile defense, the second cumulative one that pierces the tank
    1. Professor
      Professor 15 July 2014 14: 28
      +4
      Quote: bmv04636
      congratulate the professor on the initiative.

      What is the initiative? This is the third combat interception.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 15 July 2014 14: 38
        +3
        If I am not mistaken, the fourth
        http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4263283,00.html
        1. Professor
          Professor 15 July 2014 14: 45
          +1
          Quote: Pimply
          If I am not mistaken, the fourth
          http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4263283,00.html

          Yesterday by request 10th claimed that the third.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 15 July 2014 14: 48
            +1
            Quote: Professor
            Yesterday on 10 they claimed that the third.

            Xs
            1. And Us Rat
              And Us Rat 16 July 2014 02: 49
              +1
              Quote: Pimply
              Quote: Professor
              Yesterday on 10 they claimed that the third.

              Xs

              There were still interceptions, but another system (Iron Fist), the other day they wrote that they launched an ATGM patrol car, and the system worked protecting the car.
      2. bmv04636
        bmv04636 15 July 2014 14: 46
        0
        the first one that was voiced here
        1. Professor
          Professor 15 July 2014 14: 48
          +2
          Quote: bmv04636
          the first one that was voiced here

          The first one you heard about. Google banned again? wink
          1. bmv04636
            bmv04636 15 July 2014 14: 58
            0
            I had a note and video
            there is information about what old model or new Cornet-D (EM)
            1. Professor
              Professor 15 July 2014 15: 00
              +1
              Quote: bmv04636
              I had a note and video

              And I posted the note on this site, you simply were not in the subject and are not able to admit it.
              1. bmv04636
                bmv04636 15 July 2014 15: 10
                0
                thanks for the information, it's just that I’m not here long ago
                while on and without terrorist attacks, 16 were killed and 161 were injured in the subway
      3. bmv04636
        bmv04636 15 July 2014 15: 33
        0
        how are windbreaker upgrades progressing to intercept supersonic anti-tank ammunition
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 15 July 2014 15: 38
          +1
          Quote: bmv04636
          how are windbreaker upgrades progressing to intercept supersonic anti-tank ammunition

          They do not seem to work in this direction. In this vein, their competitors plow with iron fist
      4. bubla5
        bubla5 15 July 2014 18: 32
        0
        But what if we put the Cornet and the new ammunition with a double module
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 15 July 2014 19: 20
          0
          Quote: bubla5
          But what if we put the Cornet and the new ammunition with a double module

          The developers announced the readiness of the system to combat such complexes
    2. domiemon
      domiemon 15 July 2014 14: 50
      0
      The former director of Basalt says in an interview that Hook has special ammunition to overcome such a system. True, no one checked it specifically on the windbreaker
      http://vpk.name/news/33520_izrailskaya_sistema_aktivnoi_zashityi_tankov_trofi_ka
      k_i_lyubaya_drugaya_podobnaya_sistema_preodolimyi.html
  25. melnik
    melnik 15 July 2014 13: 43
    -3
    What a tolerant website is becoming! Dear Admin, can Martians be scolded? Or is it also not politically correct today?
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 15 July 2014 14: 37
      +4
      Quote: melnik
      What a tolerant website is becoming! Dear Admin, can Martians be scolded? Or is it also not politically correct today?

      Read the rules
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 15 July 2014 14: 42
      +1
      Quote: melnik
      Dear Admin, can Martians be scolded


      Martian is possible because there is a precedent
  26. Mama_Cholli
    Mama_Cholli 15 July 2014 13: 46
    0
    Windbreaker. Detection of a rocket and a shot in its direction of the striking element. The idea is good, but it’s interesting how it will work if there is more than one shot at the tank at the same time. Is a quick reload of the striking element intended?
    1. MACCABI TLV
      MACCABI TLV 15 July 2014 21: 36
      +1
      Quote: Mama_Cholli
      but I wonder how it will work if at the same time there will be more than one shot at the tank.

      this is not a trivial task at all. to shoot at the same time is a drop dead right and brilliant ambush (almost laboratory conditions).
  27. MSA
    MSA 15 July 2014 13: 59
    +2
    Strong little thing
  28. Mama_Cholli
    Mama_Cholli 15 July 2014 14: 03
    -4
    Let's see how it will lead in a real battle. Something tells me that the system is disposable.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 15 July 2014 14: 09
      +4
      Quote: Mama_Cholli
      Let's see how it will lead in a real battle. Something tells me that the system is disposable.

      That is, this is not real?
      1. bmv04636
        bmv04636 15 July 2014 14: 16
        0
        Well, not really a fight. Agree, this is a solitary attack by a single group of terrorists.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 15 July 2014 14: 28
          +3
          Quote: bmv04636
          Well, not really a fight. Agree, this is a solitary attack by a single group of terrorists.

          An outing of a group of terrorists is not a fight? Oh well
      2. Professor
        Professor 15 July 2014 14: 34
        +4
        Quote: Pimply
        That is, this is not real?

        It is understood that the terrorists fired an empty rocket without a warhead by sending an SMS to the crew before this ... wink
        1. bmv04636
          bmv04636 15 July 2014 14: 52
          -1
          the battle is when the gunners roar the bullets whistle, and this can be said a single shot; someone can say a terrorist attack; someone guerrilla sortie is fleeting in time; they fought a battle for an hour or two. They shot and hit the road but they didn’t get an answer, and the professor promised that at least Merkava Mk.4 should have fired and destroyed the adversary. however, she kept silent once the video on the network was all alive and well
          Although this is the right direction, active defense will continue to develop.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 15 July 2014 15: 08
            +1
            Quote: bmv04636
            They shot and hit the road but didn’t get an answer, and the professor promised that at least Merkava Mk.4 should have fired and destroyed the adversary. however, she kept silent once the video on the network was all alive and well

            Shelling and shooting from different points are underway, the shooting was interrupted at the time of the explosion of Cornet. But what happened next is a big question.
            1. bmv04636
              bmv04636 15 July 2014 15: 28
              0
              I didn’t understand that the shooter was destroyed, and the video shows that Merkava didn’t answer, although she immediately had to turn the tower towards the shot
  29. STALGRAD76
    STALGRAD76 15 July 2014 14: 39
    0
    Probably KAZ has proved its effectiveness, I think that the time has come to put such systems on our equipment sarino.
  30. Michael_59
    Michael_59 15 July 2014 14: 55
    +2
    Damn, why did they attack the Trophy like the Bedouins attack the locusts?
    The protection system works - and this is wonderful, but how could it be otherwise, why then all the scientific and technical progress, design schools, advanced technologies, etc.
    I just doubt that there is a fundamental difference between the mechanism of action of "Trophy" and "Arena".
    The effectiveness of the system is very high, in addition, its presence on the armored car increases the military spirit of the crew, who knows that out of 4 ATGMs 3 are not guaranteed to reach armor, but rather, they will not even make the DZ work.
    Would turn their emotional excitement towards the officials of the RF Ministry of Defense, under which the MBT of the army underwent such a "modernization", which raises a lot of questions from people more or less prepared in engineering terms ...
  31. Appius
    Appius 15 July 2014 14: 57
    +3
    Good protection, well done Israelis, think about the safety of their tankers.
  32. Black
    Black 15 July 2014 14: 57
    +1
    it is necessary to train the fighting moles ... and LOW TO BLOCK !!!!! repeat

    But seriously ... how will the windbreaker work when the projectile speed increases, say, twice?
    1. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 15 July 2014 15: 17
      +2
      Quote: Chen
      But seriously ... how will the windbreaker work when the projectile speed increases, say, twice?

      KAZ have limitations.
      Armor-piercing-sub-caliber traditionally have a high INITIAL projectile speed.
      He’s a crowbar.
      This is problem All KAZ, which is currently being decided, the maximum that they can so far is to change the flight path.

      IMHO, as there are other opinions.
      1. Black
        Black 15 July 2014 15: 27
        +1
        Well, about the sub-caliber is understandable ... And if the ATGM like Cornet will fly faster ??? And if in tandem, two at once, trace-in-trace ??
        Amateur questions ... repeat
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 15 July 2014 15: 42
          +2
          Quote: Chen
          And if an ATGM like Cornet will fly faster ???

          Sergey, if I’m not mistaken, there are already achievements on increasing the initial velocity of cumulative ammunition to 1000 m / s and higher, this will be a disaster for KAZ.

          Quote: Chen
          And if in tandem, just two, trace-in-trace ??

          There are already such systems with a double shot, just to overcome the KAZ, the system simply does not have time to get into combat mode after detonating the target simulator (each KAZ has its "own" milliseconds)
          For example RPG-30.
          1. Kars
            Kars 15 July 2014 15: 46
            +5
            Quote: Aleks tv
            there are already achievements on increasing the initial velocity of cumulative ammunition to 1000 m / s

            vryatli in this case, a compact unit will be received, and you can even forget about the portable one
            Quote: Aleks tv
            There are already such systems with a double shot, just to overcome KAZ.
            For example RPG-30

            there are a lot of questions, but doubts are gnawing at me that this cannot be avoided with advanced electronics, here you will need at least three-odd ammunition with an interval of less than a second.

            By the way, you might be interested
            http://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/285462.html
            1. Aleks tv
              Aleks tv 15 July 2014 15: 57
              +2
              Quote: Kars
              vryatli in this case, a compact unit will be received, and you can even forget about the portable one

              Greetings, Andrew.
              hi
              Yeah, I totally agree.

              Frankly speaking, he lost records of work on reaching cumulative munitions with an initial velocity above 1000 m / s ...
              Someone has links and info?
              I will be grateful.

              ps Thanks for the link ...
              Bulat used in SE?
              Wow...
              1. Kars
                Kars 15 July 2014 16: 09
                +3
                Quote: Aleks tv
                Frankly, I lost records of work to achieve cumulative ammunition

                it’s not a matter of commutative ammunition, but of its carrier, the tank guns of the KS reach almost 900 m / s, and here we need a Pturs rocket which is now accelerated to 250-300 m / s and is already very large.

                Quote: Aleks tv
                Bulat used in SE?
                Wow...

                They’ve been there for three weeks already, this is still the first photo of the lined one. There is also a video with tankers along the way those who hit the machine gun.
                1. Aleks tv
                  Aleks tv 15 July 2014 16: 33
                  +1
                  Quote: Kars
                  There is still a video with tankers along the way those who were beaten out of the machine gun.

                  Yes, I watched the video ...
                  A depressing sight - I didn’t see a TANKIST there ... neither by dialect, nor by style of communication ... and they are on the most complicated T-64 ???
                  heh.
                  By the way, the military, as such, in the video also did not see ...

                  And on the fact of the positive application of 12,7mm by T-64 - yes, they themselves confirmed.
                  Until now, IT is surprising, they have already discussed it in detail earlier (by the way - the sides of this car are CLOSED by a raised side with DZ ... but the small rollers open the weakened zone, which we talked about.)
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 15 July 2014 16: 41
                    +2
                    Quote: Aleks tv
                    A depressing sight - I didn’t see a TANKIST there ... neither by dialect, nor by style of communication ... and they are on the most complicated T-64 ???

                    Something like this - it’s hard to drive others into the Danbass, and vryatli they agree to an interview with open faces.
                    Quote: Aleks tv
                    And on the fact of the positive application of 12,7mm by T-64 - yes, they themselves confirmed.

                    Yes, but they didn’t confirm the explosion of the ammunition and the death of two tanks, or did I miss something? I didn’t doubt that the mounted sights were crushed and so on - and again there was a mention of missile hits.
                    burning - this is understandable that the outer tanks burned.
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 15 July 2014 15: 47
            +1
            Quote: Aleks tv
            There are already such systems with a double shot, just to overcome the KAZ, the system simply does not have time to get into combat mode after detonating the target simulator (each KAZ has its "own" milliseconds)
            For example RPG-30.

            The only question is whether it will be effective. Because the developers answered this question and spoke with confidence that they provided such an option
          3. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 15 July 2014 15: 50
            +2
            KAZ in this case, if smart, should not react
            on the first rocket and intercept the second. I do not know, implemented
            whether it is, but the logic of counteraction is clear.

            You, of course, can ask: "what if 5 ATGM men at the same time
            will shoot at one tank? "- each defense has its own limitations.
            Therefore, Israel, along with the KAZs, is improving the passive
            armor.
            1. MACCABI TLV
              MACCABI TLV 15 July 2014 21: 46
              +1
              Quote: voyaka uh
              You, of course, can ask: "what if 5 ATGM men at the same time
              shoot in one tank?

              5 ptura is ... at least 350 tons of money. Hypothetically possible, practically never will be.
          4. And Us Rat
            And Us Rat 16 July 2014 03: 11
            +1
            Quote: Aleks tv

            Quote: Chen
            And if in tandem, just two, trace-in-trace ??

            There are already such systems with a double shot, just to overcome the KAZ, the system simply does not have time to get into combat mode after detonating the target simulator (each KAZ has its "own" milliseconds)
            For example RPG-30.

            The problem of RPG-30 is solved by updating the KAZ software. The first disc is smaller in size, the on-board computer distinguishes it from the larger main ammunition that goes almost immediately after, passes the blank (which will not cause much harm to the armor) and works on the main ammunition.
            The danger of the RPG-30 in this case is more likely to be lightly armored targets, which can cause damage to the disc (to break through the bulletproof glass of a patrol jeep, for example, and injure the crew). Against a tank with a KAZ, a PU with two (and ideally three) balanced, ammunition of ammunition would have been more effective ... but there are already massive problems for infantry in terms of mobility and flexibility of use.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 15 July 2014 15: 36
        +1
        Quote: Aleks tv
        Armor-piercing-sub-caliber traditionally have a high INITIAL projectile speed.

        It seems that on tests of another system - Iron Fist - the sub-caliber still managed to bring down
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 15 July 2014 16: 00
          +1
          Quote: Pimply
          It seems that on tests of another system - Iron Fist - the sub-caliber still managed to bring down

          Eugene, is there more info?
          Very interesting...

          Simple crowbars come forward in perspective ...
          Not to mention a simple blank shot of "Genocide", which I, as a tanker, have always feared.
          1. Aaron Zawi
            Aaron Zawi 15 July 2014 18: 11
            +2
            Quote: Aleks tv
            Eugene, is there more info?
            [b
            Very interesting ... [/ b]
            Simple crowbars come forward in perspective ...
            Not to mention a simple blank shot of "Genocide", which I, as a tanker, have always feared.

            Search English Iron Fist Test USA.
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 15 July 2014 20: 52
            +2
            http://www.israeldefense.co.il/?CategoryID=411&ArticleID=228

            In Hebrew. You can look through the google translator
            1. Aleks tv
              Aleks tv 16 July 2014 01: 40
              0
              Quote: Aron Zaavi
              Search English Iron Fist Test USA.

              Quote: Pimply
              In Hebrew. You can look through the google translator

              Thanks Aron, Eugene ...
              Eh, mother told me - teach my son foreign languages, learn ...
              what
          3. corporal
            corporal 16 July 2014 00: 18
            0
            Quote: Aleks tv
            shot "Genocide",

            Do not enlighten, what kind of miracle is this (Google does not give anything)?
            Thanks in advance.
            1. Thunderbolt
              Thunderbolt 16 July 2014 00: 52
              +1
              “Hyacinth-S” was so called
              1. Aleks tv
                Aleks tv 16 July 2014 01: 37
                +1
                Quote: Corporal
                Do not enlighten, what kind of miracle is this (Google does not give anything)?

                Quote: Thunderbolt
                “Hyacinth-S” was so called

                Yeah ... 2С5, radish.
                wink
                1. Thunderbolt
                  Thunderbolt 16 July 2014 02: 29
                  +1
                  thought you were sleeping repeat ...)))
                  1. Aleks tv
                    Aleks tv 16 July 2014 02: 37
                    +1
                    Quote: Thunderbolt
                    thought you were sleeping

                    I'm already sleeping, namesake ...
                    laughing
                    We have half past five.
                    I put out the light, drain the oil - I press it for 300 minutes.
                    yes
  33. ALP
    ALP 15 July 2014 15: 03
    -3
    In corrupt Russia, there has long been a brainchild of the great genius of offensive and defensive systems, Sergei Invincible, called "Arena", which in the late 80s showed its effectiveness.
    1. Black
      Black 15 July 2014 15: 20
      +1
      negative
      Quote: ALP
      In corrupt Russia,

      ... the first comment on the site ... and IMMEDIATELY - from positive !!! Well done!!!
  34. Evgeny_Lev
    Evgeny_Lev 15 July 2014 15: 25
    0
    And what prevents the creation of ammunition with an EMP warhead + comulative (or crowbar, as an option)?

    The EMP is activated in close proximity, to the threshold of operation of the KAZ, albeit for a second, but disables the entire settlement system. This main warhead should be enough to fly up and destroy the target.

    Due to the proximity of the operation of the EMP warhead, you can score to protect your own electronics shell.
    What say
    1. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 16 July 2014 03: 30
      0
      Quote: Evgeny_Lev

      The EMR is activated in close proximity, to the threshold of operation of the KAZ, albeit for a second, but it incapacitates the entire settlement system ...

      It will not work out, ANY military electronics is created (since the advent of the nuclear bomb) in the calculation of maintaining operability under the conditions of EMR exposure. It is only in Hollywood films that a high-altitude nuclear explosion suppresses everything and everything, in reality only civilian infrastructures are vulnerable, and not all of them - strategic ones have a level of protection against electromagnetic radiation similar to military.
      1. Evgeny_Lev
        Evgeny_Lev 16 July 2014 09: 28
        0
        No need la la, you can normally interfere with the work of a computing system tied to radar data.
        Too many calculations and too little time for them and their duplication.
        EMR is able to bring down the process, so that the warhead could reach the goal. There you don’t need to completely extinguish everything, stupidly hindrance, and the warhead is already out of the reach of the KAZ trajectory
        1. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat 16 July 2014 11: 14
          0
          Quote: Evgeny_Lev
          No need la la, you can normally interfere with the work of a computing system tied to radar data.
          Too many calculations and too little time for them and their duplication.

          If the calculator count. What does the system need? Detection distance data and object speed. The output is a banal timer start until the moment of collision / interception. Duplication is an integral part of military electronics.

          Quote: Evgeny_Lev
          EMR is able to bring down the process, so that the warhead could reach the goal. There you don’t need to completely extinguish everything, stupidly hindrance, and the warhead is already out of the reach of the KAZ trajectory

          Well, try it. request Take a grant in KB and create a prototype. Just don’t say later that you were not warned about the meaninglessness of the undertaking. wink
  35. K-50
    K-50 15 July 2014 15: 32
    +1
    It seems to me that with intensive shelling from small arms, all these sensors and the detection station can be disabled, as well as with remote undermining of shrapnel ammunition. Then the missiles can fly up completely without obstacles.
    If you teach the ATGM to make a "slide" in front of the attacked target, leaving the zone of destruction of the submunition and attacking into the upper projection, then no "windbreaker" will help, and will be "dry the oars, Sir".
    1. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 15 July 2014 15: 49
      +2
      Quote: K-50
      It seems to me that with intensive shelling of small arms all these sensors and a detection station can be disabled, as well as with remote undermining of shrapnel ammunition.

      The namesake, with small arms caliber 5,45 and 7,62 - a controversial statement.
      But here 12,7mm, 14,5mm, 23mm and 30mm - they can screw up a good deal.
      Have experience 2A42 (30mm) in the tank:
      A good line blows almost ALL the attachments to the trash to the armor ...
      This is true...
      There is only one question:
      - Who will allow such? Only with tactical tank errors.

      Quote: K-50
      If you teach the ATGM to make a "slide" in front of the attacked target, leaving the zone of destruction of the submunition and attacking into the upper projection, then no "windbreaker" will help,

      For example, the UR of our tanks is just doing a "slide" in flight, otherwise target designation with a quantum beam worsens.
      And the angle of projection for different KAZ is different.
      1. MACCABI TLV
        MACCABI TLV 15 July 2014 21: 48
        +2
        Quote: Aleks tv
        There is only one question:
        - Who will allow such? Only with tactical tank errors.

        +1
  36. Korvin1000
    Korvin1000 15 July 2014 15: 37
    -6
    ShturmKGB
    In another article I read that the missile that was shot down was the Kornet ...

    The Kornet missile is a Russian ATGM. In the last war in Palestine, one crew knocked out 15 or 17 Merkava tanks. All the same, the Jews must be given their due - they know a lot and can
  37. Pimply
    Pimply 15 July 2014 15: 39
    +2
    Quote: Korvin1000

    The Kornet missile is a Russian ATGM. In the last war in Palestine, one crew knocked out 15 or 17 Merkava tanks.

    yyy. Can be more
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 15 July 2014 18: 52
      +2
      Quote: Pimply

      yyy. Can be more
      Yeah, I would like? :-))
  38. goose
    goose 15 July 2014 16: 41
    0
    Quote: Muadipus
    I understand that there is no interception of a rocket. The idea is to create a blast wave in the path of the rocket, as a result of which it undermines. In. as. Moreover, as I understand it, against anti-caliber shells, this thing will not help.

    One shock wave is not enough, there still a metal object should fly out under the influence of gas pressure, usually a plate, which should destroy the flying ammunition. The range of the shock wave and its propagation velocity are comparable to the focal length of the cumulative ammunition, which is not good at all. Options with a shock core were also worked out, but they needed a very accurate ELS.

    Personally, I doubt the sufficient effectiveness of any modern KAZ, passive protection is still cooler.
  39. Nyrobsky
    Nyrobsky 15 July 2014 20: 39
    +1
    It’s even scary to imagine what kind of armament and protection will be in 100 years, if only a hundred years ago steam-powered vehicles were moving. This would be smart, but all in a peaceful direction .....
    1. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 16 July 2014 03: 41
      0
      Quote: Nyrobsky
      It’s even scary to imagine what kind of armament and protection will be in 100 years, if only a hundred years ago steam-powered vehicles were moving. This would be smart, but all in a peaceful direction .....

      The military-industrial complex is one of the main engines of progress; more than half of today's civilian technologies have military roots. (Internet, mobile communications, jet aircraft, space flights, trauma surgery ... the list goes on and on)
  40. DanG73
    DanG73 15 July 2014 21: 08
    0
    Quote: Nyrobsky
    It’s even scary to imagine what kind of armament and protection will be in 100 years, if only a hundred years ago steam-powered vehicles were moving. This would be smart, but all in a peaceful direction .....


    The paradox is that it is wars that are often the engine of progress and the search for innovative solutions.
  41. kelevra
    kelevra 15 July 2014 22: 35
    0
    See a video of the operation of this installation in action.
    1. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 16 July 2014 03: 43
      0
      Videos are upstream.
  42. TOR2
    TOR2 15 July 2014 23: 34
    +1
    Quote: bmv04636
    And let the Cornet developers think how to break through the windbreaker. Although the technology is the first high-explosive rocket with shrapnel made of tungsten balls that is blown up to a distance of about 30-50 meters from the KAZ missile defense, the second cumulative one that pierces the tank
    Just the first thing that came to mind. Balls and will create a DDoS attack on computing power laughing The system will try to calculate the flight trajectory of each of them and eventually "choke". So people do not need to swear, the competition of armor and a projectile is unlikely to stop anything.
    1. bmv04636
      bmv04636 15 July 2014 23: 39
      0
      Well, the balls are needed to disable the radar and external sensors so that the system goes blind
  43. Shkolnik
    Shkolnik 17 July 2014 14: 19
    0
    That's what it means to value the lives of soldiers!
  44. Korvin1000
    Korvin1000 22 July 2014 15: 38
    0
    Quote: Pimply
    Quote: Korvin1000

    The Kornet missile is a Russian ATGM. In the last war in Palestine, one crew knocked out 15 or 17 Merkava tanks.

    yyy. Can be more


    War of 2010. This was the broadcast on the "Military Secret" program. Search the internet
    http://pro-tank.ru/blog/1001-israel-explores-new-defense-against-atgm-kornet