The arms of Robert Hillberg. Part four

27

Dear readers! This is the fourth material in a series of publications devoted to arms, designed by American designer Robert Hillberg (Robert Hillberg).

In previous installments I introduced you to multi-shotguns. Liberator (Liberator) и Colt Defender (Defender), and also with the four-barreled concealed pistol COP .357 Derringer. Today I will introduce you to the Whitney Wolverine pistol.

Whitney Wolverine was produced for a very short time, very little was produced, but these eye-catching pistols were created in order to win. They were worthy of a better fate. They were just born at the wrong time ...

It just so happened that it was on this little-known creation of Robert Hillberg that I collected the most information. And I decided that all the material should be included in this article, since the information collected deserves to be shared. Each historical the fact in this article shows how winding the expensive designer was approaching its intended purpose and how tragically this journey ended.

This elegant gun didn’t dream of Robert Hillberg one night. He did not design it in one day, but went towards its creation for many years, in parallel working on other projects. Years passed, Hillberg gained experience and knowledge in various fields and gradually cleared up in his mind and gained an outline the idea that eventually was embodied in metal.

The story of one name

Agree that the name or name is of great importance. For example, giving the child the name Adolph is extremely unwise: watch the movie “Name / Le prénom” (2012), and see how it is fraught with trouble. Or give the business class car the name “Proton Perdana” and try to sell it in Russia.

Our guest today has a very old and respectable name, which dates back to January 1798.

It all began with a contract for the supply of 10 thousands of muskets for the US government, which was concluded with a manufacturer and inventor named Eli (Eli) Whitney. One of the clauses of the contract stated that the contract must be executed within 2 years.

Eli Whitney was the first to try to organize production based on a combination of machine power, division of labor and the principle of interchangeability. Before him, weapons were made individually, and parts from one gun were often not suitable for another. While Mr. Whitney tried to set up production on the basis of the interchangeability of parts, he delayed the execution of the order for 8 years, but the next order (for 15 thousands of muskets) he completed in just 2.

Fortunately, I managed to find images of the muskets produced by the Whitney factory.

The arms of Robert Hillberg. Part four


Images of Whitney brand muskets delivered to the US government under the second contract (15, 000 pcs.). These were the first muskets that were assembled from standard interchangeable parts.


But the photo of the first revolver brand Whitney (Whitney).



The first revolver produced by the Eli Whitney factory.




Eli Whitney in person


Over time, the business of the father was continued by his son: Eli Whitney, Jr. It was the Younger who launched the “Colt Walker Model 1847” revolvers for his friend Samuel Colt in his father’s factory. It was the first “Colt”, which was assembled from standard interchangeable parts.

So the family business went from old to young, until Eli Whitney the Fourth sold the Winchester Repeating Arms production, which was located nearby, and after that the Whitney company ceased to exist.

Whitney Wolverine: Wolverine from Uncle Eli Whitney

Robert Hillberg has been working on the creation of a pistol that became known as Whitney Wolverine from the beginning of the 1950s. This elegant pistol owes its name to two circumstances: the inventor and industrialist Eli (Elay) Whitney and Robert Hillberg’s favorite football team “Michigan Wolverines” at the University of Michigan.

What's in a name?

Whitney is a clever marketing move. Bellmore-Johnson Tool Co. (Winchester partner) decided to enter the arms market and invited Robert Hillberg for this. For a new direction, it was better to create a subsidiary company and it was necessary to give it a worthy name: after all, how you call a ship, it will float like that. And having decided to do it, they decided to locate production workshops almost on the ruins of the Eli (Eli) Whitney mill and restore the name of the good old company, which had long ceased to exist and, by the way, was once bought by Winchester.

So there was a company called Whitney Firearms Inc., which had nothing to do with the office of Uncle Eli Whitney, but, as the owners of the newly created company asserted, "shared his point of view and philosophy."

Who is your most intelligent?

As the chief designer for the new company, Robert Hillberg was invited, who had just left High Standard Manufacturing Company (HSM Co.), where he held the position of head of research and development.

Thanks only to Hillberg, High Standard became the first weapons company to start using aluminum alloys on a wide commercial basis. Prior to this, aluminum alloys were used only for the needs of the army, fleet and the air force.

By that time, Hillberg had worked for Colt, Pratt & Whitney, Bell Aircraft, Republic Aviation and High Standard, so he had experience. And so this person was invited to a new enterprise to lead the process. Rumor has it that it was Hillberg who proposed to name the company after the pioneer Eli Whitney.

Everything in order and the details

By that time Hillberg, for several years at home, in his free time worked on the idea of ​​creating a “single pistol” for the most popular cartridges in those years: .22LR, .32 ACP and .380 ACP. The idea was to offer customers one unified pistol frame complete with 3-me Conversion Kit-s. This would allow shooters to easily change the caliber of the pistol by simply replacing barrels and magazines. In 1949-year this gun was born, and he called Hillberg TRI-MATIC.

As with all development Robert Hillberga, TRI-MATIC distinguished by simplicity of design, efficiency of use, ease of maintenance and low cost. A single photo of the Hillberg TRI-MATIC pistol has come down to our day, and I have not found the slightest description of this pistol.



Hillberg TRI-MATIC Pistol (1949 Year)


On the basis of the Hillberg TRI-MATIC pistol, an army version was also developed.
Judging by the inscription on the photo, the designer has decided to propose to the army pistol chambered 9 mm (possibly, .380 ACP) without the possibility of replacing the barrel. Its overall layout of the small self-loading pistol resembles a "PM" or "Walther PP". Like them, Hillberg Military Pistol (let's call it so) is based on automation with a free gate. The gun was made almost entirely of steel, equipped with a double-action trigger mechanism (self-pilot) with an open trigger, and the return spring was most likely located around a fixed barrel. It differed from the PM and Walter PP in a larger store capacity: it was 13 cartridges.



Hillberg Military Pistol (1949-1950)


It is not known how many Military Pistol pistols were assembled and how the army trials ended. Most likely, the military who was quite happy to Colt M1911 arms, but maybe Hillberga pistol design needs serious revision.

In general, in 1954, Robert Hillberg transferred his gun from High Standard to Bellmore-Johnson Tool (BJT Co.) for his project, as new employers offered him free rein.
Finally, he will do his favorite thing and make his dream come true: he will finish the development of a long-conceived gun and start producing it!

Soon it was decided to develop only a version of the pistol chambered for .22 LR for sports and recreational shooting, and the gun mutated, while retaining the outlines of its progenitor, which were made in the style of “space design of the atomic era”. Already in July 1954 was obtained a patent on the trigger and safety catch (sear mechanism disconnected by breech block motion).





Work on the new gun lasted more than a year, and in January, 1956, another patent was received in the name of Robert Hillberg.





Experienced gun Whitney Wolverine under .22 LR cartridge. Made "on my knees" by Robert Hillbergom


BJT Co. specialized in the production and sale of cutting and punching tools, casting molds, etc., and it did not have additional production facilities and skilled workers, the marketing department and all the others for the production and successful promotion of completely new products for them: small arms. Despite this, BJT Co. has not given up the idea to produce weapons, but to build a new plant, purchase the necessary equipment, to hire skilled workers and so on. e., needed a solid capital.

To do this, Robert Hillberg and Bellmore-Johnson Tool executive director Howard Johnson traveled to New York to renowned firearms distributor Jacques Galef to show him the Hillberg pistol and negotiate marketing arrangements.

With his appearance, the gun made a huge impression on Galef, and when they went to the shooting range and Hillberg personally demonstrated the capabilities of his brainchild, Monsieur Galef was completely overwhelmed: he swore that he was an experienced person and had seen a lot, but he was so fast and accurate have not seen. (They say that, during the master class, Hillberg made 10 precise shots in 3 seconds.) And therefore he offered to organize the sale of this pistol on exclusive rights and said that he was ready to buy a lot of 10 thousand copies.



Incomplete disassembly of the Whitney Wolverine


Around this time, the idea of ​​creating a customized version of the gun. Here is how it might look:



A bold sketch of Buck Rogers titled "Ray gun". The artist developed a design for a sports-target pistol
comprising muzzle brake compensator and adjustable pillar.


Most likely, the "ray gun" for the Jedi Knights remained only exist on paper, but customized guns still exist.



Nickel finish whitney wolverine with flame arrester and fully adjustable.


Soon Hillberg and Johnson registered the company Hillson Firearms (combination HILLberg and johnARE), and in April 1955 a contract was signed stating that JL Galef & Son Inc. commits to purchase a batch of 10000 Hillberg pistols, and for guaranteed repeat business, Galefa is recognized as the exclusive distributor of Hillson Hillberg pistols. The contract also stipulated the possibility of regular purchases of 10 thousand pistols in each subsequent calendar year.

The parties agreed that the manufacturer sets a fixed wholesale purchase price for the distributor, which will be $ 16,53 per item. It sounds a bit implausible, but Hillberg & Johnson did not become greedy and look for a better deal, and decided to limit small profit, but in the near future.

With this exclusive contract, Hillson Firearms applied to the First National Bank of New Haven for a loan - and received it. Then, the newly minted industrialists began searching for places for the construction of the plant and are thinking about changing the name of their company. As I said, it was crossed with a long-range sight in Whitney Firearms Inc .: in honor of the inventor Eli Whitney, since the plant was decided to be built one mile from the place where the Whitney mill had once stood. Closer did not work: at that time, the site of the old Whitney belonged to the water company of New Haven, and the land was not sold.

In the 1956, the slow pace of the gun began production.
By the way, its like the company also decided to rename, and he became known as Whitney Wolverine.



Whitney Wolverine Anodized blue pistol in original packaging


They are produced in two versions: a cheaper and more widespread: Anodized blue (blued) and the more expensive and rare - Nickel finish (a nickel). Retail prices for Whitney Wolverine pistols were: bronzed body $ 39,95, nickel plated $ 44,95. That is, Mr. Galef earned on the resale of one gun at least $ 23,42 and nothing stuck with him.



Whitney Wolverine by Nickel finish


Sales began under the slogan: “Whitney’s new arms firm adopts its historic name in order to break conservatism with an inexpensive and ergonomic pistol chambered for .22 LR.”

One of the first owners of this gun was none other than Rex Applegate (Rex Applegate). Legendary US Army colonel praised him as "the most reliable and most accurate gun under .22 LR cartridge, which I ever held in my hands."



One of the owners of Whitney Wolverine posted a photo of the target.
A series of 10 shots from 15 yards (13,72 meters)


Good news It was that the production volume is gradually increasing, and entrepreneurs will make a profit soon. But there was also bad news in a couple of weeks, profits will not be, as the price ($ 16.53 / pcs.), Assigned to the wholesale distributor only covers production costs. That is, a manufacturer sells his goods at cost. To reduce production costs, some changes were made to the design of the gun, but the real situation could only be improved by increasing the wholesale price of $ 3.00 / pcs. And what a normal businessman would agree to this? The price for the distributor remained unchanged.

In the summer of 1953, the Whitney Firearms produced 330 pistols a week, and the company suffered losses every week. The fact is that with large sales volumes, you can make a profit even by selling a product with a minimum margin. The situation was aggravated by the fact that the distributor (Jacques Galef) notified the manufacturer to suspend deliveries: his warehouse was already full of their finished products, but there was no demand for them, although everyone was sure that the trunks would be sold out like hot cakes. It was a devastating blow to Whitney Firearms: the company was bound hand and foot by an exclusive agreement with Galef & Son Inc., according to which they were not allowed to sell their products to other distributors. And Galef could no longer and did not want to buy, because there was no one to sell. Whitney needed new distribution channels like a breath of fresh air, or it would go bankrupt faster than its little pistol could fire.

However, any contracts with new partners not only mean the resumption of production and the company's ability to stay afloat, but also the payment of penalties Monsieur Galefu, lawful exclusive distributor. After the convulsive search for new partners gun Whitney Wolverine interested in two major networks from the West Coast: Sears and Montgomery Ward. However, hopes were not fulfilled, and the deal fell through.

It attempts to sell Whitney Wolverine in Mexico was made, but the meager demand plus changes in Mexican law on imports and put an end to this venture.

To reduce the cost of production there was a crazy idea to save on the design of the pistol, but they did not decide to deprive their offspring of attractiveness.

In the end, a difficult decision was made: not to get involved in legal proceedings with Galef company, but to sell everything that is possible and pay off your debts. In 1957, Whitney Firearms was sold with grist to industrial equipment dealer Charles Low Sr. (Charles E. Lowe Sr.) who owned a store nearby in Newington, Connecticut. Charley old man was aware of the situation and bought the business on the cheap.

During the entire existence of Whitney Firearms Inc. 10793 pistols were produced, of which 10360 were delivered to the Galef & Son warehouse. It was a difficult period in the life of a gunsmith, in whose eyes his old dream was crumbling.

Intrigue again

The new owner, Charles Low, left the company with its old name, but changed its ownership form with Inc. (Corporation, virtually the same as the Limited, and in our opinion, LTD.) To Co .: a general partnership. Then, no longer bound by exclusive treaties, he launched production, which was gradually spun up thanks to an advertising campaign that was carried out not only in the American press, but also in the most well-known foreign weapons magazines.



"The most rapid-firing gun and accurate." Apparently, the father and son photo must mean that this gun can accurately shoot even a child. A sign below for morons: "Weapons will not fire a disconnected store." What a touching concern for consumers!




Magazine "Guns" for March 1958 of the year (judicial trials are already underway)
The inscription under the portrait: "Eli Whitney - the father of interchangeable weapon parts"


However, in February 1958, Galef & Son filed a lawsuit against the renewed Whitney company, claiming a breach of contract. The new owner claimed that the terms of the contract signed with the old owners were met: a batch of Hillberg pistols in the amount of 10000 pieces (and even more) was delivered to Mr. Galef's warehouse, covered by a notice from the same Galef, in which he asked to suspend the supply of new products for due to weak consumer demand, and in addition said that Galef & Son is suing another company: they just have consonant names.

Charles Lowe argued that he did not buy the business entirely, but only the company's physical assets (equipment, etc.) and Hillberg's patents, and then leased them to the new company (partnership). The trial threatened to drag on indefinitely, and the sales of the pistol were not shaky, not shaky. In addition, in the event that Galef wins a lawsuit, all profits for the sale of the pistol will be awarded to Galef and in addition he would demand compensation for legal expenses and moral damage. Production has been suspended. In the end, the conflict was resolved, but time was lost, and the gun disappeared from sale.

Instead of resuming the production, it was decided to liquidate it, and sell the remaining 1100 pistols in bulk to various distributors.
On such a tragic note, the first life ended without a doubt the excellent and extraordinary pistol Whitney Wolverine.

It was a cruel lesson, but Hillberg learned it and his next development (Liberator and Defender) he already offered to the giants of the arms industry. But that's another story, and you read about it.

So what is the reason for our failures?

According to experts (see the list of references), there were several reasons why the pistol and its creator were pursued by failures and suffered a quick death. Since Hillberg and Johnson were excellent techies (each in their own field), but did not understand anything about marketing, they turned to Galef & Son for help.

Obviously, the enslaving contract with the Galef company was one of the main factors from which several reasons flowed at once:
- the manufacturer did not have the opportunity to conclude contracts with other networks for the distribution of products;
- the contract stipulated a fixed price, due to which the manufacturer received almost zero profit;
- the traditional form of sale at the time, which was also used by Galef: order and delivery of goods by mail.

Whitney had no idea how Galef & Son would market and market their pistol. They expected to see their pistols in shop windows and on the shelves of weapons stores across the country, and Galef stupidly advertised in the press, waited for orders and sent purchases by mail. That is, the potential buyer did not have the opportunity to go to the store, hold the gun in his hands, turn it around, try on it, etc.

Perhaps the second factor was that the gun “often changed its name.”
The majority of products are known for their whole life under one name (sometimes the second name is assigned for export: “Zhiguli” - “Lada”). And the Hillberg system pistol had a lot of them: in the beginning it was conceived as multi-caliber and called Tri-Matic, but after registering the Hillson company, undergoing significant changes, it received the working name Hillson-Imperial. By the way, the name Hillson was never present on any of their Hillberg pistols.

As I wrote earlier, during the first presentation of the pistol at the shooting range, Monsieur Galef was completely overwhelmed: he swore that he had never before seen such a rapid-fire pistol with such an exact fight. He was so impressed that he kind of exclaimed: “It shoots like lightning!” (He shoots like lightning!) Galef insisted that the word Lightning be present in advertisements that he posted in the press.



Advertising of those years which was published by Galef: under the slogan “10 shots in 3 seconds” there is “Lightning Model”


6 exclusive features of the Whitney Wolverine pistol: quick-fire, durable, balanced, accurate combat, soft descent, easy.

By the way, the name Lightning also never was present on any of the guns of the Hillberg system.



Please note: All announcements indicate that Galef & Son is the exclusive distributor


In the end, in honor of his favorite football team, Robert Hillberg, he got his most famous name: Wolverine (Wolverine). But with this name it turned out not very well. The fact is that the plant of the Lyman Gunsight Company was located a few miles from the Whitney plant. So: that factory, among other things, produced including optical sights under the registered trademark Lyman Wolverine.



Optical sight Lyman Wolverine


Well what can I say? Sheer bad luck ... Since the owners of these enterprises were friends, because Wolverine was a registered trademark of Lyman and in order to maintain good-neighborly friendship instead of hanging around the courts, Whitney decided to abandon the name of “Wolverine”. It is said that after this decision, the Hillberg system pistols were simply called: Hillberg Semi-Auto Pistol .22 LR. By the way, I did not see this name on any photo of the Hillberg system pistols.

Another cause of failure can be called the general term “market conditions”. Unlike the Whitney Wolverine pistol, most pistols from other manufacturers could not only be ordered by mail, but also found and felt in almost any hunting store.

Sale on the cheap military surplus (rifles and pistols) could also affect the US arms market.

The Whitney Wolverine pistol was one of the first models of weapons, in the manufacture of which not heavy steel was used, but a light aluminum alloy. This can be compared with the situation that arose several decades later due to the appearance of the first pistols with a polymer frame. Both then and now, many believe that the “steel” pistol is more reliable and durable.

And finally, competitors. In my opinion, at that time Wolverine was competing with the Ruger Mark II and High Standard Supermatic .22 LR pistols. Their manufacturers sold their similar products on the 2-3 dollar cheaper. What did the difference in a couple of bucks mean if the gun was as good as they say? Yes, because it was in 1956-th year, and according to statistics, that year the average wage in the United States was equal to 388 dollars and 22 cents.

In those years, a gallon of gas cost 18 cents (0,047 dollars per liter), a kilogram of sugar cost 19 cents, eggs - 7 cents per piece, chicken - 95 cents per kilogram, potatoes - 8 cents per kilogram. That is, the difference was palpable: roughly speaking, in 1 a bag of potatoes.

At the moment, the original Whitney Wolverine pistols are of great collectible value. Depending on the state, the price can range from $ 650 to $ 1200. And the price of the guns put up for auction at Rock Island Auction ranges from $ 1800 to $ 2750.



TTX pistol Whitney Wolverine




Second Life

I read on the forums that today Samson Manufacturing Corp is slowly collecting Whitney Wolverine pistols from original parts that are bought all over the world. I did not find such data on the official website of the company. Looks like a complete set.

From 2004, the Olympic Arms Inc. launched the Whitney Wolverine pistol with a polymer frame.



Already very old Robert (Bob) Hillberg with a Whitney Wolverine pistol from the Olympic Arms. A bit of happiness in old age. Cutting Gun Digest for 2011 year


Modern Wolverine consists of 55 parts and is very similar to the original.



Whitney Wolverine comparison: original at the top,
below - modern, with a polymer frame.
[/ Center]

[Center]


In addition to the polymer frame, instead of an aluminum alloy, several small changes were made to the Olympic Arms: they added a ventilated aim bar and improved the safety mechanism.



Improved Olympic Arms fuse mechanism


The package bundle has been enriched with a “smart book with comics” and “wonder-key”: it serves to loosen and tighten the cap nut that fixes the barrel, and in addition it is used to equip the store. Previously, the feeder spring was pulled down with a cartridge.



Miracle Key by Olympic Arms


The cost of a modern Whitney Wolverine with a polymer frame on the Olympic Arms website is $ 294. In addition to the black frame (Black frame), pistols are available in “jolly colors”: Coyote Brown, Desert Tan, Pink frame.



For fans of upgrades, replaceable wooden cheeks and a flame arrester are available (purchased separately). Olympic Arms, unlike Galef & Son, sells Whitney Wolverine pistols only through dealerships throughout the United States and does not ship orders by mail. They have no distributors abroad.

It is also impossible to order a gun on the manufacturer's website: go to America, go to the gun shop and buy or order there.
Of course it is possible order online and receive in the mail a set of components for self-assembly, but the frame itself will not work. And besides: delivery most likely too only across the territory of the USA.

Judging by the fact that the manufacturer’s website has a separate instruction regarding the shop latch, it is the most common problem for shooters. It appears in the case when the magazine contains 10 cartridges: then the spring of the feeder becomes very tight and "pushes" the cartridges back with great force. You need to make a significant effort to push the store all the way down and make sure that the latch of the store takes its place.



Usually, at the end of the article, I inform my readers of the list of films in which the hero of the article took part as a prop for shooting.
Unfortunately, I don’t know a single film in which they would use this elegant gun to arm movie stars. If you know of such films, please post the available data.

Thank you!

To be continued ...

Information sources:
Antonio Taglienti “The Whitney Wolverine” Jerry Lee “Standard Catalog of Rifles & Shotguns”
Ian Hogg, John Walter “Pistols of the World”
“Guns” magazine August 1956
http://rockislandauction.blogspot.com
http://www.olyarms.com
http://www.gun-tests.com
http://smith-wessonforum.com
http://www.soviet-steel.com
http://ru.wikipedia.org
http://classic.gunauction.com
http://www.armslist.com
http://milpas.cc
http://www.gunandswordcollector.com
http://bubbleheadgunnut.wordpress.com
http://www.freepatentsonline.com
http://www.opoccuu.com
http://rosttar.netnotebook.net
http://www.dollartimes.com
http://www.airwar.ru
http://www.gunbroker.com
Whitney Wolverine Short Review by LifeSizePotato



Shooting from Whitney Wolverine by LifeSizePotato



Kinky with crooked hands from the National Rifle Association USA
trying to show how a whitney wolverine gun understands



Short review and shooting of the modern Whitney Wolverine Olympic Arms

Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

27 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. +15
    14 July 2014 09: 19
    Bravo Michael! As always, well-developed and illustrated material, the publication is very solid!
    1. +8
      14 July 2014 11: 42
      Quote: Bongo
      As always, well-developed and illustrated material, the publication is very sound!

      So 2 weeks of work on it made themselves felt.
      I would have spent less on 1 a day - I’d make a cutlet
      1. +3
        14 July 2014 12: 28
        Quote: Mister X
        So 2 weeks of work on it made themselves felt.
        I would have spent less on 1 a day - I’d make a cutlet

        You are well done! And the gun is just a miracle! For me, number two is now chrome-plated with a white handle, Whitney Wolverine, after the gilded Luger Marin! ...
        1. +1
          14 July 2014 18: 08
          Quote: Nayhas
          For me, now the chrome-plated white-handled Whitney Wolverine is number two after the gilded Lüger Marin! ...

          Yes, you are my friend gourmet!
          Parabellum Marine is not much preserved to this day.
          1. +1
            15 July 2014 01: 55
            Parabellum Marine is in the Museum of the Patriotic War in Smolensk, I saw it there when I was taken as a schoolboy on a tour, though I did not know what it was called!
            But Whitney Wolverine, this is probably the most beautiful gun that I have seen, and the design is original and really Jedi weapons :)
          2. SSam67
            0
            26 July 2014 19: 20
            But really very beautiful)
  2. +1
    14 July 2014 10: 36
    Good little thing. It would still be made under the cartridge .17 NM2, the machine would become even more interesting in terms of quality of fire. Cartridges .17 НМ2, although they cost more than .22 LR, but the recoil will decrease, accuracy will increase, penetration will increase.
    1. +2
      14 July 2014 12: 37
      Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
      It would have to be made chambered for .17 HM2

      Indeed, the Hornady cartridge is very interesting and is gaining popularity in the USA.
      Good accuracy, flat trajectory and all that.
      Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
      penetrability will increase

      The gun is designed for bench and recreational shooting and penetration him to anything.
      Touches his second application: for shooting rodents.
      We deal with them in a different way, and they have created a direct sport.
      1. +2
        14 July 2014 13: 00
        At a relatively short distance .17 НМ2 the German helmet pierces. .22 LR from the same distance only makes a dent in the helmet. 2 MAX at .17 HM2 - these are not toys! There is a similar magnetized, and even rifle (central battle) .17 caliber cartridge. But they are not suitable for a gun. And at .17 NM2 the sleeve is crimped .22 LR and the dimensions of the cartridge are the same, and the capsule is the same. The replacement of the barrel and the selection of a return spring may all be limited to alteration. The cartridge is new, 2004. In the 50s. 20th century it simply did not physically exist.
        1. +1
          14 July 2014 13: 42
          Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
          At a relatively short distance .17 HM2 German helmet punches.

          The light bullet (1,1 gr.) Quickly loses its energy and the stopping power is probably lower than that of the 5,45 cartridge for PSM.
          Undoubtedly, both the .17 NM2 cartridge and the weapon for it have the right to life for solving "specific" tasks.

          Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
          The cartridge is new, 2004-year.

          The cartridge appeared simultaneously with the Whitney pistol on the polymer frame from the Olympic Arms.
          smile
          1. +1
            14 July 2014 14: 23
            .22 LR is also far from a live cartridge. The small thing is intended for hunting small game. Up to 100 m it is considered effective. At a 50m, a .22-caliber sports rifle with good ammunition easily fits a series of 2-3 bullets into one hole in a mid-range shooter.
            For the target pistol .22 LR, this will be a bit too much. In sport pistol shooting, weakened .22 cartridges are used. Therefore .17 can be interesting as more accurate, with minimal impact. This small .17 bullet naturally "blows up" small rodents, leaves not a weak "hole" in the rabbit.

            They do not shoot at 100m from a small pistol of a classical design. This is generally not a pistol range of 10-30 m, more than enough for a .22 pistol. The .17 HM2 would be a royal caliber at that range.

            For shooting at 100 meters in caliber .17, a rifle cartridge of a central battle is already being produced. CZ makes vintars for this caliber.

            PC: Huckler und Koch also equips the Bundeswehr with a caliber of less than 5mm for his new submachine guns. At 1 km nobody shoots with such calibers. 1 km starts with about 7 mm very powerful and expensive rounds.
            1. +2
              14 July 2014 14: 47
              Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
              22 LR is also far from a live cartridge.

              Certainly not "combat", especially considering the "ring" ignition scheme and when the cartridge was created. Nevertheless, the cartridge is very successful, with a huge number of different options. In the states, one of the most successful, in my opinion, foreign "silent" pistols Ruger 22/45 was created for it.
              However, the lethal effect of the 22 LR cartridge is not so weak. At a distance of 40-50 meters, a bullet fired from a rifle penetrates the body at 12-15 cm with a wound channel 7-8 cm.
              1. 0
                14 July 2014 15: 08
                In the states, .22 cartridges are given in supermarkets instead of surrender, and weapons themselves for this caliber are cheap. .22 in the United States holds a steady first place in terms of the number of killings, but not due to the characteristics of the cartridge, but because of its prevalence.

                Against humans, a .22 bullet when ingested in soft tissue is ineffective. Who caught the bullets .22 soft tissue will confirm. One has to get into vital organs.

                "Per person" at close range is better than a 12-gauge and .45 ACP so far nothing has been invented. Even the 9mm Para doesn't always stop the attacker from the first shot. Therefore, the military and police prefer more solid guns.
                1. +4
                  14 July 2014 15: 21
                  Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
                  "Per person" at close range is better than a 12-gauge and .45 ACP so far nothing has been invented.

                  Who would argue, but I will not smile The 45th was never used, but from the 12th I "burn" several hundred rounds a year, fortunately not for people. Regarding the 22nd, I will remain unconvinced, this is a very accurate and quite lethal ammunition at real distances. At a distance of 50 meters, the black grouse pierces through and through.
                  1. +1
                    14 July 2014 19: 02
                    More powerful rifle .17 Hornet that creates:

                  2. 0
                    14 July 2014 23: 52
                    It also seems to me that if from a couple of meters to hit the "deuce" of the 22nd in the leg - it will not seem a little. And the 17th will go through the body like a needle
                    1. 0
                      15 July 2014 07: 42
                      It depends on the particular case, since two identical people do not exist. But in most cases, even a point-blank shot from the .22 short-barrel does not cause serious harm, even to a teenager. The sound of the shot scares more. But a supersonic light bullet can do business. At least pain shock guaranteed.

                      The difference between .17 and .22 in diameter is only one millimeter, which for a person does not play a big role, if vital organs are not affected. The impact force plays a role, and it is a derivative of the mass of the bullet and the speed with which the bullet hits the target, how much energy (Joule) the bullet gives the target when it hits.

                      As an example, I will cite observations from my own youth experience. As a child, I was engaged in boxing, later in karate, hand-to-hand fighting ... I was engaged in a long and enthusiastic manner. Among the friends, there were also enough guys who were not indifferent to sports and martial arts, KMS-s. All of them quite painlessly held a good strong, delivered punch, some even a kick, from which an untrained person would at best go to the hospital. But when one of my trained comrades tried to intercept the nunchaku, which he did not take seriously, and received an unwound blow with a "light stick" on the exposed hand, he sat down on the fifth point from pain shock, literally. He was simply paralyzed for a while from a painful shock - the body stopped obeying the fighter. And the "light sticks on a string" continued to hum, cutting circles in the air.

                      We were not even afraid of little boys. We went to the shooting range, made themselves "volyns" from window latches and pipes with a diameter of 5,5 mm, which were carried out from the nearest factory. Once such a "bully" shot the shooter himself right in the leg and pierced the thigh. The boy, of course, was upset ... and hobbled home on his own to get a bullet from his leg with the help of dumbfounded parents. Seryozha was 13-14 years old. Well, that didn't hit my head. It was fraught with the risk of going to the hospital with a firearm. Bones and tendons were not hurt - the guy was lucky. Seryozha's dad was not taken aback either. Everything worked out, in general.
          2. 0
            14 July 2014 20: 06
            oh yes ... buy where possible ... the article is clear.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. 0
    14 July 2014 11: 25
    I fell in love with this trunk fellow
  5. pahanches
    +3
    14 July 2014 11: 56
    Pink delivered.
    1. 0
      15 July 2014 23: 15
      Quote: Pahanches
      Pink delivered.


      Lezbovoy.
      bully
  6. 0
    14 July 2014 12: 08
    trunk finally beauty. article too. ATP huge author.
  7. +4
    14 July 2014 14: 32
    As our headman said on the course, when giving out scholarships to girls: "Thank you for the pleasure you have given." laughing . A very beautiful gun, and the article is good.
  8. 0
    14 July 2014 19: 51
    So this is a blaster !!!
    I remember a long time ago my grandfather walked with such a thing in a black helmet on a spaceship, there was an Empire war against the Proporks. wassat
  9. 0
    14 July 2014 22: 36
    A beautiful gun with a difficult fate. Article PLUS
  10. 0
    14 July 2014 23: 03
    Unusually beautiful pistol. But there are no blue ones, Lyashko would give it, he might shoot himself.
    Very interesting articles about weapons. Thank you.
  11. 0
    15 July 2014 00: 08
    Quite an elegant, in my opinion, "machine". As a "civilian" weapon, "if" suddenly "is allowed, it is quite appropriate.
  12. Rodyanin
    0
    15 July 2014 21: 19
    AND! the product is useless in principle, except for practical training in shooting, especially with two hands ... Well, very elegant ... Suddenly someone's life will save. Sports and self-defense (in the presence of skills and knowledge) ... So what? There are plenty of rimfire cartridge designs that are useful rather than "beautiful" ...
  13. Rodyanin
    0
    15 July 2014 21: 52
    A few years ago, a relative-close-friend gave me a "sample" of 1919. Natyurlikh, System "Nagant" revolver, Kirov weapon. plant (out of bezishodnost the enterprise also made pukalki on the ancient "RAW MATERIAL" ...) The SIGNAL revolver was called ...) I did not begin to remake it back into a combat one for 3 reasons: Difficult (!), not interesting, boring, and 4. unprofitable .. good pneumatics at the same level ... I, the long-awaited grandson, am not going to tame to the smell of burnt gunpowder ... If the "Roasted Rooster" does not bite ....
  14. 0
    25 July 2016 19: 17
    "And below is the inscription for:" The weapon will not fire with the magazine disconnected. "What a touching concern for consumers!"
    The inscription is not so stupid, cases of shots from pistols with the magazine detached and the cartridge remaining in the barrel occur regularly, and then removing the magazine includes an automatic fuse, which makes handling the gun safer.

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned), Kirill Budanov (included to the Rosfinmonitoring list of terrorists and extremists)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev Lev; Ponomarev Ilya; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; Mikhail Kasyanov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"