Manual machine guns family Steyr AUG

71
An important component of the arsenal of any rifle unit is a light machine gun. With relatively small size and weight weapon able to provide a sufficiently high density of fire, which allows the machine gunner to effectively work together with other fighters. In order to simplify production, light machine guns are sometimes constructed on the basis of another weapon, primarily on the basis of automatic weapons. A good example of this approach to the creation of small arms are the Austrian light machine guns of the Steyr AUG family.

The first light machine gun of the family was the AUG HBAR (Heavy Barrel - "Heavy Barrel"), which is a basic automatic rifle with some changes due to other requirements. The main differences between the machine gun and the base rifle are a different barrel and a larger capacity magazine. All other parts and assemblies of weapons are unified. Moreover, by replacing the barrel, the Steyr AUG can become an AUG HBAR light machine gun and vice versa.



The main part of the AUG HBAR machine gun is a receiver of a characteristic shape, made of aluminum alloy and placed inside a plastic case. To increase rigidity and strength in the design of the receiver, there are several steel inserts. One of these parts is used for fastening the barrel and locking the bolt. The thick-walled 5,56 mm caliber barrel, 621 mm long, as well as the other AUG trunks, is mounted in the receiver with eight stops included in the grooves of the receiver and fixed by turning around its axis. The breech of the trunk is equipped with a gas block with a piston, as well as a fastening assembly of the front handle. For ease of use, the barrel is set muzzle brake and folding bipod.

Automatic machine gun AUG HBAR uses the energy of powder gases discharged from the barrel. A short stroke gas piston drives the bolt group. Before the shot, the barrel is locked onto seven lugs by turning the bolt. In this case, the lugs are not located on the trunk, but on a special coupling, to which the barrel is attached. The bolt group moves in two hollow tubes. In addition to holding the bolt group, they perform additional functions: the left tube connects the bolt to the cocking handle, and the right one serves as the gas piston rod. For the extraction of spent cartridges the shutter is equipped with an ejector and a spring-loaded reflector.



An interesting feature of the machine gun of other weapons of the Steyr AUG family is the possibility of using two different bolts for right-handed and left-handed shooters. The shutter for firing from the right shoulder throws out the cartridge cases through the window on the right surface of the receiver. The second version of the shutter has a “reflected” design and throws the sleeves to the left.

The trigger mechanism of the machine gun is made in the form of a separate unit located in the butt. USM is connected to the trigger with two rods. In the design of the firing mechanism of the Steyr AUG automatic rifle and weapons on its base, several interesting technical solutions were used. So, the majority of parts USM are made of plastic, and the number of metal parts is minimized. In addition, the mechanism does not provide a separate translator of fire. The functions of the translator are performed by the trigger: with an incomplete pressing, a single shot is made, and for firing with a burst it is necessary to fully press it. As a fuse button is used above the handle of fire control, blocking the trigger.

Used automation allows you to shoot at a rate of up to 680 shots per minute. The initial speed of the bullet due to the use of a relatively long barrel reaches 950 m / s. The effective range of fire - not less than 350-400 m. Aiming is proposed to produce using an integrated sight. The optical sight with multiplicity 1,5x is built into the carrying handle and is similar to the sighting devices of other weapons of the AUG family.

The machine gun is powered from detachable box magazine on 42 cartridge 5,56х45 mm NATO. In addition, it is possible to use magazines on 30 cartridges, originally intended for the AUG automatic rifle.



Due to the use of a long 621-mm barrel, the total length of the Steyr AUG HBAR light machine gun is equal to 900 mm. Weaponless ammunition weighs 4,9 kg. Thus, the light machine gun is only 100 mm longer and kg 1 heavier machine, on the basis of which was created. Such dimensions and weight, as well as a high degree of unification contribute to the ease of use of the AUG HBAR machine gun in various divisions.

Manual machine gun Steyr AUG HBAR coped well with the implementation of the tasks assigned to it, but had some drawbacks. The main one is the tendency to overheat the barrel during intensive shooting with corresponding consequences for the accuracy and accuracy of fire. To solve this problem, an AUG LMG light machine gun (Light Machine Gun) was created. Again, the design changes were minimal, which made it possible to maintain at a high level the degree of unification of the two types of weapons. In fact, adjustments were made only to the trigger mechanism and sights.

To reduce the thermal loads on the barrel in the project AUG LMG, a new trigger was used, intended for firing from an open bolt. This means that before the shot the shutter is held in the rearmost position and returns forward, to the sending cartridge, only after pressing the trigger. Due to this, between the shots and during the breaks in the shooting, the chamber is open and the barrel can cool down faster, transferring heat more efficiently to the surrounding air. In addition, shooting with an open shutter allows you to increase the rate of fire. With a similar design to the AUG HBAR machine gun, the AUG LMG can do up to 750 rounds per minute.

In the handle for carrying the machine gun AUG LMG is a new optical sight 4. The use of the new sight allowed us to simplify aiming at long ranges. At the same time, the firing range remained the same - over the 350-400 m.

AUG HBAR-T and AUG LMG-T light machine guns have responded to the demands of the times. The only difference between these weapons from HBAR and LMG is the new carrying handle. In order to increase the flexibility of use, the pen with an integrated telescopic sight was replaced with a Picatinny rail for attaching any compatible sight. A handle with a bar for mounting scopes was borrowed from a modification of the basic AUG P Special Receiver.

One of the main advantages of the Steyr AUG family of weapons is its modular design. Depending on the current tasks, the shooter can use the most suitable barrel and bolt. In particular, the procedure of replacing individual units makes it relatively quick and easy to make an automatic machine gun AUG with a HBAR or LMG light machine gun. This feature of the machine gun family AUG interested some customers. Military and security forces of several countries purchased a number of light machine guns of these models in the form of finished products and sets of replaceable modules for use with machine guns.


On the materials of the sites:
http://world.guns.ru/
http://militaryfactory.com/
http://remtek.com/
http://gewehr.ru/
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

71 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. padonok.71
    +7
    7 July 2014 08: 52
    The article is good! thanks to the author.
    According to the material. In my opinion, the bulpap scheme for a light machine gun is not good. The balance is monstrous, sleeves pour in the face. But all this applies to the rest of the bulpup.
    1. +6
      7 July 2014 10: 07
      Quote: padonok.71
      In my opinion, the bulpap scheme for a light machine gun is not good. The balance is monstrous, sleeves pour in the face. But all this applies to the rest of the bulpup.

      Add to this one more moment - reloading in the "prone" position.
      1. padonok.71
        +5
        7 July 2014 11: 00
        Yes, yes, sheer flour, at the PKK on the bipod rocked to the side and voila. You don’t raise your head, you don’t take your eyes off the line.
        1. 0
          7 July 2014 12: 50
          I also can’t imagine how to create such a fire density with the help of a subject that, due to overheating, shooting from an open shutter is required.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +6
      7 July 2014 10: 23
      Quote: padonok.71
      According to the material. In my opinion, the bulpap scheme for a light machine gun is not good. The balance is monstrous, sleeves pour in the face. But all this applies to the rest of the bulpup.

      Not good for a machine gun is the lack of a tape with cartridges - you torture stores to reload ...

      1. +2
        7 July 2014 16: 01
        Quote: professor
        Not good for a machine gun is the lack of a tape with cartridges - you torture stores to reload ...

        Alternatively: Beta Mag C-MAG for STEYR AUG
        Box & Papers:
        Shop on 100 ammo
        Loading machine
        Pouches 6-colors
        Graphite grease

        Price on the manufacturer's website 300 dollars.

        1. +5
          7 July 2014 16: 59
          Quote: Mister X
          Beta Mag C-MAG for STEYR AUG

          There is a suspicion that shooting will be inconvenient.
        2. SIT
          +1
          7 July 2014 17: 01
          Quote: Mister X
          Shop on 100 ammo

          But how to hold on the machine gun butt with your left hand with such a magazine? The palm will not crawl, and the right elbow will lie on this store, the emphasis will not work.
          1. 0
            7 July 2014 17: 38
            Quote: SIT
            And how to hold on the machine gun butt with his left hand with such a store?

            One convenience at the expense of another ...
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. 0
          8 July 2014 07: 39
          sorry, not new.
          It is rather a hinged, additional.
          1. 0
            8 July 2014 09: 47
            Eh, I don’t see here ramsi-would ask a question:
            -The initial speed is 950 m / s, the AK also has about the same, etc., but in order to raise the initial speed of the bullet to just over 1000 m / s, "play" with barrel lengths, rifling for our cartridge 5.45 is not enough? Change the cartridge itself?
            1. anomalocaris
              0
              8 July 2014 15: 55
              Do not remember the wretched in the bust ...
              You can raise it, only it will cost quite a bit. The initial bullet speed maximized at 1000m / s is not a fad; in fact, this is the limit of the possibility of modern structural materials. To depict a barrel from which several tens of thousands of bullets can be fired with an initial velocity of more than 1000 m / s is very expensive, it will naturally not even be gold, but platinum (by weight).
        5. 0
          9 July 2014 09: 53
          This is a purely assault option. Not a machine gun. And what stores are not suitable for? The only thing is that the line of sight goes away when replacing. But if the department has not 1 such LMG, but 2 is normal. Analogs are heavier; there are a lot of them in the ward not to be thrust.
        6. The comment was deleted.
      2. anomalocaris
        0
        8 July 2014 15: 45
        For once, Professor, I agree with you. In principle, it is impossible to make a machine gun out of a normal machine gun.
      3. Dezzed
        -1
        8 July 2014 20: 23
        I would be ashamed to take it in my hands.
  2. +3
    7 July 2014 10: 11
    Well done Austrians! They created such a successful trunk that 30 years later looks very good. And modularity was by the way - we could do without a separate RPK model, if there was the possibility of changing trunks in AKM. Bullpup design is an amateur, but due to its compactness, it allows to increase the barrel length with the same dimensions as conventional weapons.
    1. anomalocaris
      0
      8 July 2014 16: 01
      Yes, the AUG-77 does not have modularity in the modern sense of the word. Only trunks vary in length and weight.
      And for what the hell to change the barrel in AKM? The platoon has a PKK, there is a PKT on BMP + 2A28, 2A72 + ATGM "Fagot". Is that at least?
  3. +1
    7 July 2014 10: 13
    What can I say, this is a bulpap, with all that it implies.
    It bothers the fastening of the bipod directly to the trunk, I think this is not the best solution. On the other hand, the AUG has a total length of 900 mm. with a barrel length of 620 mm. while, say, the PKK has a length of 1060 mm. with a barrel length of 590 mm.
    In general, such a normal barrel, the only question is how convenient it is
  4. +1
    7 July 2014 10: 31
    To reduce thermal loads on the barrel in the AUG LMG project, a new trigger was used, designed for firing from an open shutter.

    I wonder how many stores from AUG HBAR need to be planted in order to overheat it? The barrel is like a heavy, machine gun. With scanty shops, it seems that the shooter is overheating, changing these shops rather than the machine gun itself. I also understand if he had tape power (which with this arrangement has nowhere to cling to).
    By the way, are there any decent articles on the issue of overheating of small arms? And whatever I find, all some rumors, speculation and speculation.
  5. +3
    7 July 2014 11: 07
    With such an arrangement, the jar cannot be delivered. And this is not a machine gun, but a rifle with a machine gun barrel.

    Various barrels for Steyr AUG: from top to bottom - heavy machine gun barrel with bipod; standard barrel; barrel type "carbine", barrel type "submachine gun".
    1. anomalocaris
      0
      9 July 2014 15: 31
      These are the trunks. For the same cartridge. This is by no means a "modular" design.
  6. 0
    7 July 2014 11: 41
    The store is one thing ... Where is the box for 100 rounds?
  7. the handsome
    +6
    7 July 2014 12: 03
    You cannot blind a normal machine gun from a machine gun. It is proved by world experience.
    1. +1
      7 July 2014 12: 05
      Quote: elguapo
      You cannot blind a normal machine gun from a machine gun. It is proved by world experience.

      I agree, although many have tried.
      1. +3
        7 July 2014 12: 45
        Quote: professor
        I agree, although many have tried.

        There is at least the opportunity to put a drum store.
      2. 0
        9 July 2014 10: 08
        This unreliable thing, drum, while new - works to the end.
      3. The comment was deleted.
  8. +4
    7 July 2014 12: 38
    The non-replaceable barrel is the biggest drawback.
    But stores at 42 - can be endured. With a long ribbon
    250 rounds - also torment. Need a 2nd number. And he is not
    always there when necessary.
    We decided to tear the tape into 4 parts: in half, and again in half.
    It turned out 4 pieces of about 60 rounds. It’s easier with them
    managed by one.

    The most successful experience in the use of light machine guns in wars is with the Germans.
    And they used short ribbons of 34 rounds for their MG-50.
    1. SIT
      +1
      7 July 2014 16: 57
      Quote: voyaka uh
      With a long ribbon of 250 rounds of ammunition - also torment. Need 2nd number

      The tape fits in a bag made of cordura, which is attached from the bottom. it is detachable, the tail does not hang. The only problem is the equipment - the tape comes with cartridges directly from the factory.
      1. +3
        7 July 2014 19: 28
        There are no problems with the first tape in the bag -
        everything is neat. Troubles further, shoot the code first
        - there is only one bag, and then the ribbons in the boxes. And to refuel
        bag no time and opportunity, as a rule. Therefore it is necessary
        put the box next to the machine gun. Just put it - change
        positions ... In general, pieces of tape stuffed into pouches,
        more convenient, as practice has shown.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. 0
      7 July 2014 18: 09
      With us, if you want to charge at least 25 hunts, you can collect any multiple of them ...
    4. +1
      7 July 2014 22: 32
      what about the pecheneg there is also no removable trunk
  9. padonok.71
    0
    7 July 2014 12: 50
    Quote: professor
    Not good for a machine gun is the lack of a tape with cartridges - you torture stores to reload ...

    I do not agree, this is a different concept. A single (or light) tape, primarily a group weapon. This was first understood and put into practice by the Bosh with its MG series (circular). A light storefront is an attempt to create a self-sufficient combat unit, as part of a group (squad, platoon, etc.), in order to increase the density of fire by a group. And one and the other, a look at things has a right to exist, and there, and there, its pros and cons. Recently there appeared (well, relatively recently) a third option to increase the group’s fire density - a small-caliber tape (mainly 5,56), which is also a rather controversial thing. In any case, the amers still do not have agreement on this matter.
    Quote: elguapo
    You cannot blind a normal machine gun from a machine gun. It is proved by world experience.

    And what, in your concept, a "normal" machine gun? Indeed, even now they have not yet come to a single option, because there are a lot of tasks for a machine gun, sometimes completely opposite ones. Only we (in the RF Armed Forces) are armed (at a glance) with 6 different systems, for different cartridges. Which one is normal?
    Quote: professor
    I agree, although many have tried.

    Again I do not agree. PKK is not the worst option (in my opinion - the best, of the kind). For comparison, remember what happened with the Americans on the basis of M16 A1 (or A 2 - I do not remember).
    1. +1
      7 July 2014 13: 48
      Quote: padonok.71
      what happened with the Americans on the basis of M16 A1 (or A 2 - I do not remember).

      From the series "do it yourself".
      Water-cooled AR platform machine gun.

      http://www.guns.yfa1.ru/pulemet-na-platforme-ar-s-vodyanym-oxlazhdeniem.html
    2. anomalocaris
      +1
      9 July 2014 15: 43
      Wow how. You are extremely mistaken. RPK is a re-automatic machine. To conduct suppression fire, even with "tambourines" (have you personally equipped at least one tambourine? By the way, the RPK-74 has no "tambourine") is more than problematic.
      In my concept, a normal light machine gun is RPD. Tape feed, heavy barrel, fucking reliability - what more could you want?
      1. padonok.71
        0
        10 July 2014 00: 00
        Questions to me? ... I will answer ...
        Quote: anomalocaris
        Wow how. You are extremely mistaken. RPK is a re-automatic machine. To conduct suppression fire, even with "tambourines" (have you personally equipped at least one tambourine? By the way, the RPK-74 has no "tambourine") is more than problematic.

        RPK is a machine gun. It is possible to suppress 1 point with them, right away, for the duration of the throw (and if you work with a two, then it is not a question at all). Even using the standard "long horn". For more, normally, there is a PC. There is no need to invent anything, everything has been invented and tested before us (a bunch of DP and Maxim).
        About "tambourines", we called them "cupcakes", I didn't say anything at all. But - yes, he equipped and did not die.
        Quote: anomalocaris
        In my concept, a normal light machine gun is RPD. Tape feed, heavy barrel, fucking reliability - what more could you want?

        Yes, I agree. But you must admit, the RPD is an analogue (for its intended purpose) - a PC, and a PC is still more interesting.
  10. Alexander.B
    +1
    7 July 2014 13: 16
    Quote: voyaka uh

    The most successful experience in the use of light machine guns in wars is with the Germans.
    And they used short ribbons of 34 rounds for their MG-50.

    Well, these characters are just the legislators of the "machine gun doctrine" of a single machine gun. That's just how many barrels they carried.

    Just do not correctly compare these samples.
    1. +2
      7 July 2014 15: 13
      I agree with you that the example is not very successful. The Germans in their Blitzkig
      they came up with, in particular, the tactics of machine-gun groups, leaving for a deep breakthrough.
      Which no one is currently using - the risk is very high: what is wrong - the group is dying.
      Today, fire support groups are located behind the infantry,
      and the attacking machine gunners go with everyone.
  11. 0
    7 July 2014 14: 31
    the air has poor thermal conductivity - how do they think to cool the barrel even with a delayed shot?
    1. Victor-cort
      0
      7 July 2014 18: 14
      Quote: Takashi
      the air has poor thermal conductivity - how do they think to cool the barrel even with a delayed shot?

      The barrel is quick-change, the question is whether a replaceable spare barrel is included.
  12. padonok.71
    0
    7 July 2014 14: 55
    Quote: Takashi
    the air has poor thermal conductivity - how do they think to cool the barrel even with a delayed shot?

    Why delay ?, with the shutter open. It is believed that at the moment when the breech is not engaged with the bolt, the bore is "blown out". Thereby improving cooling. Like most PPs.
  13. +1
    7 July 2014 16: 03
    Well, what kind of machine gun is it ... so, ersatz.
    a bullpup machine gun is generally nonsense - the number of shortcomings is over the top: here you have the lack of tape power, the inability to use high-capacity magazines (75-100 pat.), and the ability to mount bipods only on the barrel, and a strong gas contamination in the area of ​​the shooter’s face .. .
  14. 0
    7 July 2014 18: 15
    It’s a fragile thing, shoot 500-600 rounds from it and see what kind of machine gun it is. Not a removable optical sight - hello L85 dropped his sight down and aimed at the barrel. They say she has a strong flip of the trunk, he himself did not see her closely, but it's a pity .....
  15. 0
    7 July 2014 20: 38
    It seems that everything was done correctly and at a good technical level, but there is a feeling that something is wrong with this machine gun. It does not make the impression of a convenient and reliable weapon. If the barrel is interchangeable, this does not mean that overheated trunks change in the field according to There is also little known about the resource of such a barrel and a bolt group originating from a berdanka. Is there even less information about what happens to an overheated barrel? In short, after a machine gunner’s funeral, a new barrel is put on a machine gun and transferred to a new machine gunner.
  16. 0
    7 July 2014 21: 10
    Quote: padonok.71
    Why delay ?, with the shutter open. It is believed that at the moment when the breech is not engaged with the bolt, the bore is "blown out"

    Well, in general, it’s not quite so, shooting from the rear whisper in machine guns is used to exclude self-ignition of a cartridge in an overheated chamber, if this affects cooling, it can only be noticed by special equipment.
    Quote: padonok.71
    Again I do not agree. PKK is not the worst option (in my opinion - the best, of the kind). For comparison, remember what happened with the Americans on the basis of M16 A1 (or A 2 - I do not remember).

    And what happened? The first experimental Koltovo CAR 15 heavy assault gun M2 and CMG-1 lovers are really far from perfect and have not left the stage of experienced ones, but the later M16A2 LSW-LMGs are quite firing, they were armed with the KMP (and like there are still here and there) the main differences from the basic M16 are shooting from the rear sear, an oil buffer, a heavy barrel with a bipod and a carrying handle and only a car racer. Given the peculiarities of the M16 circuit, it should be rather heaped in bursts. taking into account the use of S-magicians, he is nevertheless more suitable for the role of a light support weapon than AUG or even our PKK.
    1. padonok.71
      0
      8 July 2014 00: 38
      About shooting from the open shutter, in the tape, I know. But we were talking about the store and the thermal regime of the barrel, so the remark is not correct.
      As for the special equipment. My old friend works as the head of a laboratory at one cartridge factory, so I can say that working from the rear sear really "unloads" the thermal regime of the bolt group and the chamber. Within 40-90 gr.
      And for the PKK he wrote that "in my opinion" - he is the best. Maybe the handbrakes of the M-series are more heaped, but you must agree, it is stupid to evaluate the complex, according to one parameter.
  17. 0
    7 July 2014 22: 35
    as I understand, we have such a layout
    Shortened version of the Pecheneg light machine gun
    The machine gun is designed for special forces operating at short distances and uses a Russian rifle cartridge of 7,62 × 53 mm as an ammunition, the bullet of which pierces any modern body armor.
    The new assault machine gun differs from the usual “Pecheneg” in the absence of a stock and a forward-mounted fire control stick according to the “bullpup” scheme. Due to this, the machine gun became shorter by 27 cm lighter by half a kilogram. Three-fold increased and accuracy with hand shooting. Especially the advantages of a shortened machine gun are noticeable when standing and from the knee, when tall grass or obstacles do not allow the use of bipod shooting. At the same time, the trunk dyne remained the same - 658 mm, which made it possible to preserve the ballistic characteristics of the Pecheneg.
    The designer of the new weapon was an officer of the Vympel group of the Special Purpose Center of the FSB of Russia.
  18. 0
    7 July 2014 22: 45
    but here it looks with us
  19. 0
    8 July 2014 10: 11
    Quote: padonok.71
    And for the PKK he wrote that "in my opinion" - he is the best. Maybe the handbrakes of the M-series are more heaped, but you must agree, it is stupid to evaluate the complex, according to one parameter.

    Well, so let's try to compare it with RPK-74, because the cartridges are comparable in terms of performance characteristics.
    Weight RPK / LSW 4,7 / 5,7, length 1060/1000, barrel length 590/510, initial speed 960/941, magazine capacity 45/100
    rate of fire 600 / adjustable from 600/750.
    Many just looking at the mass will say AHA is heavier per kilogram! just where did it come from? and the main weight gain is given by the barrel and here the PKK loses - the outer diameter of the PKK barrel is 17 mm and for the American 23mm I think that this means in relation to the machine gun is not necessary, well, plus the mass of the handle and an additional bracket with picatinny slats near the front sight. n / a and energy are approximately equal and it makes no sense to discuss. But in terms of the combat rate of fire, which is extremely important for support weapons, the American with C-mages is utterly superior to the PKK with its "horns", besides, it is extremely inconvenient - whoever fired from the RPK-74 lying down - he knows what I'm talking about. Well, for small pleasures such as ease of placement of controls, ergonomics, the possibility of quick and easy installation of various sighting without dead weight healthy side brackets.
    I foresee the slippers from the couch shooters - "Well, this is the M-16! It is so unreliable that you throw them away in their carriages, exchanging them for AK!" At present, this is far from the case, and in terms of its reliability it fully satisfies the requirements of the military, and I highly recommend all these comrades to lament the "Black Rifle" of Blake Stevens and Edward Ezzel, it describes in great detail the history of the creation and refinement of the M-16 and so - the same of her many children and competitors.
    1. Victor-cort
      0
      8 July 2014 20: 26
      Quote: gross kaput
      I foresee the slippers from the sofa shooters - "Well, this is the M-16! It is so unreliable that you throw them away in their carriages, exchanging them for AK!"

      These sofa "theorists" are not even aware that at the beginning of his career AK had much bigger problems than We16 :)
  20. 0
    8 July 2014 10: 14
    Quote: bmv04636
    but here it looks with us

    Duc only this is an initiative development of the "Zenit", sharpened for very highly specialized tasks of the counterterrorism in the UK.
    In the army, she did not stick to anyone, and the FSB will be in demand until all kinds of "warriors of Allah" stop hiding in residential buildings.
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. 0
    8 July 2014 10: 42
    Quote: padonok.71
    About shooting from the open shutter, in the tape, I know. But we were talking about the store and the thermal regime of the barrel, so the remark is not correct.

    Yes, you understand, I have no comrade in the cartridge production, I have to use textbooks - so we open the textbook "Foundations of the device and design of small arms" comrade V.M. Kirillov and published already in the days of the bald maize in 1963, and what do we read there in relation to light machine guns without differences in nutrition?
    "The movable automation system before the shot, as a rule, is in the rear position, which ensures safety against spontaneous ignition of the cartridge in the chamber during intensive shooting (strong heating of the barrel) and better cooling of the barrel between bursts (firing)" As you can see, everything is put in the first place - the same safety and hypothetical better cooling for the second.
    1. padonok.71
      0
      8 July 2014 23: 20
      Damn, you read my comments. I said somewhere that such a scheme was invented, primarily for cooling? The man asked: "By what means?" I, that knew, answered. And then you appear, in a white tailcoat, and say: "It's all bullshit, it's done for safety and for nothing else. I read books and I know everything." Although the link you provided indicates that for cooling, too.
      And it also says that there is no difference in the type of loading. And there is a difference. Because at the store, the time for changing the stores and, accordingly, "purging" is long.
      PS: I ask you not to be offended by my "syllable", I did not want to offend anyone, I write as I think. And you are an interesting opponent, I see in the topic of this question. And you are arguing reasonably, with arguments, and not like many here - it is unnecessary to argue.
  23. 0
    9 July 2014 09: 57
    Quote: anomalocaris
    Do not remember the wretched in the bust ... You can raise it, only it will cost quite a bit. The initial bullet speed maximized at 1000m / s is not a fad; in fact, this is the limit of the possibility of modern structural materials. To depict a barrel from which several tens of thousands of bullets can be fired with an initial velocity of more than 1000 m / s is very expensive, it will, naturally, not even gold, but platinum (by weight).

    Gold words. Navy artillery systems at the beginning of the last century ran into the same impasse. We began to find a balance between the propelling charge, the mass of the projectile and the length of the barrel. Came to super-heavy shells with a moderate initial speed. With a 10% decrease in the initial velocity, the barrel resource increased by 4-15 times. The mass of the shell compensated for the damage in ballistics, and the accuracy even increased when firing at maximum distances.
    1. anomalocaris
      0
      10 July 2014 17: 02
      This is one very interesting effect - the fluidity of the metal. Just at a certain pressure, a metal in a solid phase begins to behave like a liquid. Accordingly, he cannot save the initially given shape ...
  24. 0
    9 July 2014 10: 13
    Quote: Alexander.B
    Well, these characters are just the legislators of the "machine gun doctrine" of a single machine gun. That's just how many barrels they carried.

    They only had 1 barrel in the state. Moreover, the barrel + cartridges weighed a lot. If the machine gun was stationary, then 3-4 barrels were supposed.
    This is for MG34.

    Here it is necessary to clarify: MG42, MG34 and ZB26 are very different things.
  25. +1
    9 July 2014 11: 01
    Quote: padonok.71
    PS: I ask you not to be offended by my "syllable", I did not want to offend anyone, I write as I think. And you are an interesting opponent, I see in the topic of this question

    So I do not take offense, it is often not a gift myself.
    Quote: padonok.71
    ... Because at the store, the time for changing the stores and, accordingly, "purging" is long.

    A scho tape change much faster?
    Well, if you go back to our sheep, then, by and large, shooting from the rear whispered in modern hand-guns is more likely a tribute to tradition, at the beginning of the 20th century, with those gunpowders, it was necessary, modern phlegmatized gunpowder requires much more serious heating and the machine gunner’s cartridges will run out faster than the barrel warms up to such temperatures. My fighters managed to burn a bitch during firing, the paint on the barrel burned, the flame arrester turned blue, but self-ignition never happened.
    The statement about the best cooling is, in my opinion, from the evil one, yes, there are references in the general "descriptive" sections of smart books, but in the expanded sections, i.e. where specific material is given on the calculation of shafts, their modes of operation and cooling, this method is not even mentioned, let alone its calculation. The only mention "Blowing or blowing the barrel with a stream of air in small arms has not been used."
    1. padonok.71
      +1
      9 July 2014 13: 12
      Quote: gross kaput
      A scho tape change much faster?

      Not faster - less often.
      Quote: gross kaput
      The statement about the best cooling is still in my opinion from the evil one

      In practice, I think yes. Because no one will shoot from a machine gun in bursts at the tape / magazine (taking into account the "bitches" - it is debatable), and at a real rate of fire (taking into account the transfer of points, positions, reloading, picking the nose, torturing the 2nd number, etc.) the whole effect of cooling from the rear sear is a vanishingly small value. Although he personally completed the fire before the forearm caught fire, it is true that on combat - not on firing.
      The difference was noticeable on a bench test, when shooting a new batch of cartridges, on a balustvol (continuous line of 500 rounds). We watched on a laboratory thermal imager.
      By the way, the resource of the laboratory ballistic barrel of 1500 shots is also for cancellation. The resource of the firing mechanism of the balstvol 80000 shots - and overhaul.
  26. +1
    9 July 2014 11: 20
    Quote: goose
    They only had 1 barrel in the state.

    I will supplement the infantry for the manual MG34 with one spare barrel, the mountain rangers have two spare, for the looms in the state three were put up.
  27. padonok.71
    0
    9 July 2014 13: 19
    Quote: gross kaput
    I will supplement the infantry for the manual MG34 with one spare barrel, the mountain rangers have two spare, for the looms in the state three were put up.

    Yes, yes, and an asbestos jam and tube for interchangeable trunks / barrel (and many other bells and whistles for 74-120 kg., Depending on the delivery set), everything is in the third room (well, a jam and tube).
  28. 0
    9 July 2014 15: 34
    Quote: padonok.71
    Not faster - less often.

    At present, it is not always true, for example, to take a PKK with a hundred Chinese tambourine and RPD with a tape of the same volume.
    Well, or if you go on the other side - changing the store on the Ultimax 100 twice will still be faster than once a tape on a minimi.
    PS By the way, I remembered, perhaps the only thing that the Chinese did not copy with us was our rattle for 75 rounds of ammunition for the PKK, instead we looked at the design of tambourines for Tommy Gun and created their own shops for 75 and 100, which seem to be, at least from the recollections people using them are much more convenient in equipment and more reliable than ours.
    1. padonok.71
      +1
      10 July 2014 00: 23
      So I was talking about normal "horns".
      Quote: gross kaput
      Well, or if you go on the other side - changing the store on the Ultimax 100 twice will still be faster than once a tape on a minimi.

      You flooded into the exotic. I won't say anything about Ultimax - I never happened (not a Singaporean). But about the minimum, I'll tell you - a miserable chirr (scold me, I won't change my opinion). All some kind of "lax" (the box falls off when it falls, the lid in the joint is loose, the stores are still ridiculous - it's bad). Not clumsy, clumsy. Brrrrr ....
      And I don’t even want to remember about "muffins". Gave, bastard, a skew on the final dash of the stormmen (I heard enough from them). There is a normal, reliable "horn" and there is no need to invent anything. Pampering is.
  29. 0
    10 July 2014 11: 42
    Quote: padonok.71
    In you flooded exotic.

    Yes, no, I just didn’t want to repeat myself, but this is the first thing that I remembered with a full-time store at 100.
    Quote: padonok.71
    But about the minim, I’ll tell

    Well, overweight and complicated in my opinion, it’s interesting to know which of the users who used it as a standard weapon, i.e. As part of the unit armed with ligaments M-4/16 - M249 / minimi - I have long been tormented by such a question - the Belgians made it possible to double-feed the shit to increase the receiver, complicate the design, etc. - How justified is this decision from the point of view of practice? Yes, it’s a bit not so much how often did real users have to use stores in real conditions?
  30. padonok.71
    0
    10 July 2014 15: 50
    Experience in combat use - of course not, but what happened at the shooting range. M 249 pip (it seems I don’t remember now). In short, then:
    1. Weight distribution / balance - a nightmare.
    2. Absolutely not applied (the butt was painted by a drunken plumber).
    3. When assuming a prone position, the cartridge box clings to the ground and bounces off the body, hanging on a tape skewed in the feed gland. They thought the defect of this device, but no - it was planned so.
    4. When refueling the tape, the tab steadily torn. Brand tape. Loose i.e. disposable.
    5. Closing the feed cover, stable from 3-5 times. A terrible backlash.
    6. Using stores in combat conditions is not possible. It is inserted for 7-9 seconds (this is in a calm environment), flies out when the breeze blows to the SK. Practical rate of fire less than the M-series.
    And much more, replacing the barrel, eliminating distortions, delays. Reluctance to write. But such a ... we would have wrapped up at state tests.
    Something like that.
  31. 0
    10 July 2014 15: 57
    That's what I see that in terms of prevalence in the world, he is up to the FN-MAG as to Saturn in a balloon, although the same Belgians riveted.
    1. padonok.71
      0
      10 July 2014 21: 39
      Yes MAGA is a completely different matter. Almost like a PC (oh sorry PCM).
  32. anomalocaris
    0
    10 July 2014 16: 54
    Quote: padonok.71
    Yes, I agree. But you must admit, the RPD is an analogue (for its intended purpose) - a PC, and a PC is still more interesting.

    Not on your nelly. This is the machine gun compartment. He was created in such a way. Take an interest in TK on RPD. Maybe stop talking nonsense.
    RPK is a machine gun. It is possible to suppress 1 point with them, right away, for the duration of the throw (and if you work with a two, then it is not a question at all). Even using the standard "long horn". For more, normally, there is a PC. There is no need to invent anything, everything has been invented and tested before us (a bunch of DP and Maxim).

    Torment even the machine gunner to suppress from the PKK with a horn. Everything was really invented without us and before us. But you just flew by ... It's just such a small question, which staff list includes PKM (the PC has not been manufactured and has not been in service with the Russian Federation for 50 years).
  33. padonok.71
    0
    10 July 2014 21: 35
    Quote: anomalocaris
    Not on your nelly. This is the machine gun compartment. He was created in such a way. Take an interest in TK on RPD. Maybe stop talking nonsense.

    Well, let's start from the beginning. What is a PC? (if it annoys you so much and you even know such subtleties as
    Quote: anomalocaris
    PC is not manufactured and is not in service with the Russian Federation for 50 years).
    then let PCM). You should know that PKM is a single machine gun. And what is a single machine gun? This is a machine gun capable of fulfilling the role of: machine gun, easel, anti-aircraft, tank. Do you agree?
    Now we will understand what RPD (aka 56-P-327) is. RPD - machine gun.
    Hence the conclusion - PC replaces PKK, RPK - PC - no.
    What's so wrong?
    Come on.
    Quote: anomalocaris
    Torment even the machine gunner to suppress from the PKK with a horn.

    Can you imagine what suppression is? And you probably know that in suppressing the machine gunner is involved in general, not one. And you know what the Yankees say - I didn’t hit with six, and you won’t hit with a hundred. And if in the case, then there you need to fix it for 5-6 seconds, which is quite within the power of the PKK and the horn.
    All. Tired of writing ...
  34. +1
    11 July 2014 12: 14
    Quote: anomalocaris
    PC is not manufactured and is not in service with the Russian Federation for 50 years

    About how it usually happens - they wanted to show off their knowledge even finding fault with simplification and hitting a finger with the finger in the sky, the PC really isn’t being produced, but no one removed it from the armament, the GRAU 6P6 index.
    The conclusion is that one should not find fault with small roughnesses, otherwise a discussion of a particular issue will slide into flood.
    Quote: anomalocaris
    Torment even submachine gunner to suppress from the PKK with a horn

    Depending on how and where to suppress it, in some situations the hail division may not be enough, so there is no need to generalize. Although, nevertheless, in my opinion, the essence of the "rework" handbrakes of the RPK, MG36, L86 type and the culprit of the article reflects the British-mattress term LSW Light Support Weapon (light support weapon).
  35. anomalocaris
    0
    11 July 2014 15: 04
    Quote: padonok.71
    Can you imagine what suppression is?

    Baby, I don’t just imagine what it is ...
  36. anomalocaris
    0
    11 July 2014 15: 10
    Quote: gross kaput
    About how it usually happens - they wanted to show off their knowledge even finding fault with simplification and hitting a finger with the finger in the sky, the PC really isn’t being produced, but no one removed it from the armament, the GRAU 6P6 index.
    The conclusion is that one should not find fault with small roughnesses, otherwise a discussion of a particular issue will slide into flood.

    And what the hell did you give up to me to complain about? If you served (and you obviously did not serve), then you would know about such trifles. But you did not serve, and therefore freeze frank nonsense.
  37. 0
    11 July 2014 16: 13
    Quote: anomalocaris
    And what the hell did you give up to me to complain about? If you served (and you obviously did not serve), then you would know about such trifles. But you did not serve, and therefore freeze frank nonsense.

    I do not like boors, more than just boors I do not like only boors with a bloated conceit.
    I will answer in your same vein - as a child you will call your full-time crush, in the army I served in the rather funny 1995-1997gg and in the rather funny troops, so as for military service, you don’t have to judge people about yourself.
    After that, for 10 years he was an weapons inspector / instructor in fire training, and then he managed to work in a pilot production with one specialized design bureau.
    Okay, back to our rams - we will analyze further -
    Quote: anomalocaris
    Baby, I don’t just imagine what it is ...

    Somewhat does not fit with what we see in the comments of this comrade in other topics - "Baby, unlike you, I did not go through a frail school of life. And not only am I a hydraulic engineer, I am also a mechanic of mechanical assembly works on the 6th category, a fitter-patterner of the 5th category, a fitter-adjuster of the 6th category, I soldered my first computer in 1992, when you walked under the table on foot. By the way, I counted almost all the course students and the diploma on it. "
    In general, the conclusion is quite simple and banal, apparently comrade boor graduated from a technical university in the early 90s with the military rank of lieutenant "jacket" of the reserve, probably feeling his inferiority from the lack of service in the army, trying in every possible way to show his importance in specialized forums.
    The moral is simple - dear boor, contact a psychologist - maybe he stops your complex is not full and bloated conceit.
    PS And do not judge all people by yourself - this is a sure sign of low intelligence.
    1. anomalocaris
      0
      14 July 2014 15: 41
      Baby, what you don’t fit in with is your problem.
      Maybe I am a boor, just by the nature of my work I constantly come across people like you. That is, very "educated" and completely "literate". I just can't calmly watch how such individuals are ruining a very beautiful technique.
      And you can turn to a psychologist yourself if you don’t have a friend, knock-grunt, look for ...
  38. 0
    12 July 2014 13: 55
    I’m a teapot, and I have a funny shot. Therefore, for me, the meaning of a light machine gun is as follows. When extending a small unit, weapons require lightness and maneuverability. Those. uniform machine guns, like PKM and PKP, clearly fly by. In my vision, this is something like a PKK with a carob store. He would only have a better sight, some kind of optics or a collimator, in order to more effectively realize the advantage over conventional automatic machines. In this situation, the machine gun acts as a support weapon. They arrived at the place, the machine gunner is hung up control of the direction or sector. The position is selected, the machine gun is put on the bipod, instead of a carob store, something larger clings to it. In the case of the old RPK, a drum, but it would be nice to have a box with a ribbon more authentic. Since the machine gunner controls the direction alone, in difficult situations he will not have time to change stores at all. And the mass of equipped weapons in this situation does not have much significance. In this version, the weapon begins to act as an almost complete machine gun.
    So it turns out that it would be necessary to come up with something for the PKK reliable 100 round magazine. And so that it clings easily and reliably. Or teach the PKK, in addition to shops, to eat ribbons. And with overheating, come up with something, shooting with an open shutter, or a liver-like trunk.
    In the light of the above, the subject is more like a support weapon, it just has an optical sight installed, and an effective range of up to 400 is underestimated. At such a range, just right from the bipod with optics on the chest figures with two-three to hammer. If it were for growth, then the effective range would probably be larger, 500-600 meters would be indicated, as was done for the PKK74. Well, the machine gunner with scanty shops with 40 rounds is unlikely to master the role of covering the sector alone. And a big store with such a scheme is a big question. The weapon is clearly more intended for hitting individual targets, and not for firing at squares, the layout does not allow.
    1. anomalocaris
      0
      15 July 2014 16: 01
      The funny thing is that the PKK is the very "support weapon". Fedorov himself called his machine gun a machine gun. Exactly the same units were created in France (Mle 1915) and in the states (BAR1918). Initially, these units were designed to conduct more or less aimed fire from unstable positions. No more.
      1. 0
        16 July 2014 11: 52
        Quote: anomalocaris
        PKK is the very "weapon of support"

        The Finns almost the same unit was called an assault rifle. Same AK mechanics, heavy barrel and bipod.
        Quote: anomalocaris
        Fedorov called his machine gun a submachine gun

        A machine gun at that time was called everything that shot bursts. Names are of secondary importance. For example, APS according to GOST, it seems like PP.
        Quote: anomalocaris
        Initially, these units were designed to conduct more or less targeted fire from unstable positions.

        In those days, only PP could claim to solve such a problem. With automatic rifles, even under a Japanese cartridge, the recoil momentum is too big. Well, it should be noted a gigantic difference in tactics and strategy in the periods before and after tanks. In WWII, automatic rifles, although they were still relevant, are already outdated. We needed PP and light machine guns. We needed a machine gun, but again, by the end of the war, he did not really have time. As well as automatic rifles did not have time to participate normally in the First World War.
        1. anomalocaris
          0
          17 July 2014 11: 47
          The Finns almost the same unit was called an assault rifle. Same AK mechanics, heavy barrel and bipod.

          What kind of unit is this?
          A machine gun at that time was called everything that shot bursts. Names are of secondary importance. For example, APS according to GOST, it seems like PP.

          Reread Fedorov. You look and stop nonsense. At the beginning of World War I, there were at least two light machine guns. That's just that none of them could be aimed fire from an unstable position, that is, on the move. Hence came the submachine guns.
          1. 0
            17 July 2014 17: 39
            Quote: anomalocaris
            What kind of unit is this?

            I do not remember. Some Finnish prototype of the 50s. I subtracted it in an almost Soviet book, where the author liked to draw almost the family trees of the tree. AK - then that Finnish prototype, I don’t remember the name, which improved accuracy by making a heavy barrel and bipod, - then the Israeli Galil AR (not ARM, the one with bipods too, but the barrel is longer and has a carrying handle). I would have forgotten it as unnecessary, but then on the Hansa there were small disassemblies, that of an assault rifle, and that of an assault rifle (carbine).
            Quote: anomalocaris
            Reread Fedorov.

            You'd better find something sensible about the combat use of his machine. No statutes, no instructions, nothing. What is this unit for and how should it be used? There is a little about the use of ABC and CBT, but Fedorov wasn’t trying to do this.
            Quote: anomalocaris
            there were at least two light machine guns. That's just that none of them could be aimed fire from an unstable position, that is, on the move. Hence came the submachine guns.

            It’s one thing that Fedorov wanted to receive. Another thing is that he turned out in the end, taking into account the then industrial capabilities. Something remotely close to m-14. Those. big and very kicking. How is it that the M-14 has good results when shooting from unstable positions? What do state charters say about this?
            Well and further about the unstable position and shooting. The software of the Second World War is shorter and more convenient than the machine. In this case, they could conduct more intense fire, including aimed fire on the go.
            It should also be taken into account that the problem of aimed shooting in motion in combination with an acceptable effective range was thoroughly solved only with the advent of small-caliber intermediate munitions.
            1. anomalocaris
              +1
              18 July 2014 17: 36
              You'd better find something sensible about the combat use of his machine. No statutes, no instructions,

              Here you are very mistaken. There is a manual on the Fedorov assault rifle of 1928. There and maintenance and tactics. Present in the grid. If you do not find, hit in PM. I will forward.
              This is an extremely interesting book.
              It’s one thing that Fedorov wanted to receive. Another thing is that he turned out in the end, taking into account the then industrial capabilities. Something remotely close to m-14. Those. big and very kicking. How is it that the M-14 has good results when shooting from unstable positions? What do state charters say about this?
              Well and further about the unstable position and shooting. The software of the Second World War is shorter and more convenient than the machine. In this case, they could conduct more intense fire, including aimed fire on the go.
              It should also be taken into account that the problem of aimed shooting in motion in combination with an acceptable effective range was thoroughly solved only with the advent of small-caliber intermediate munitions.

              He crashed much less, rather even less than AKM (the muzzle energy is the same, the mass of the bullet in general, too, but the mass is more per kilogram).
              PP is PP. All its capabilities are extremely limited by a cartridge. But the lack of a machine at the beginning of WWII can be explained only by economic reasons, there were technical prerequisites.
              1. 0
                19 July 2014 12: 02
                Quote: anomalocaris
                There is a manual on the Fedorov assault rifle of 1928. There and maintenance and tactics. Present in the grid.

                Thanks, look. When used to be interested, it was deaf.
  39. padonok.71
    0
    13 July 2014 13: 55
    Here's what I will answer you, dear ananakaris. As for the "baby", it is not even worth attention, but as for the tactical methods we are discussing, I see that you are a complete layman in this. I think that you have very vague ideas about suppression. And I get these performances since 95g (with a break in the whole 97g. - they collected / repaired the left claw).
    Incl. I do not agree with you dear Gross Kaput, this is not a "pyadzhak", this is a vocational school worker otmazurik.
    And BRN 521 - in principle, a correct understanding of the topic, a deeper one comes with experience (I wish you to receive it only at shooting ranges / ranges.
  40. +1
    13 July 2014 20: 07
    Quote: brn521
    So it turns out that it would be necessary for the PKK to somehow come up with a reliable magazine for 100 rounds. And so that it clings easily and reliably. Or teach the PKK, in addition to shops, to eat ribbons. And with overheating, come up with something, shooting with an open shutter, or a liver-like trunk.

    Well, in the early 70's, they tried to push DU-21s with combined power into service, the main reason for the military's refusal is the same as the replacement of the RPK with the RPK in the troops - unification. Well, regarding overheating, read the posts above there it is already sucked.
    Quote: brn521
    400 underestimated. At such a range, just right from the bipod with optics on the chest figures with two-three to hammer.

    It makes no sense, at such ranges to defeat only a loner, 2-3 only a waste of cartridges even with bipods and with optics.
    Well, about everything else I wrote, my personal opinion is that for the PKK and others like it, the mattress term LSW Light Support Weapon (light support weapon) is more suitable
    1. padonok.71
      0
      13 July 2014 23: 17
      No, on 400 RPKN 74, frequent 2nd - normal. It is necessary to "bend", and to get there is the tenth thing. The main thing is to "bring the stormmen" - then they will figure it out by themselves, well, "zyrik", by communication, if they get confused, they will trust. This, if "on the wiring" to crush.
      And if you "shoot", then yes - only alone. But it's very hard for the legs, 4-5 shifts will be done, with a good scenario. Yes, and "one sting" is dangerous. On the shift, if experienced, will catch, press and adyos.
      Oops, quarrel - I missed "for defeat", then, only item 2.
      1. anomalocaris
        0
        24 July 2014 15: 47
        Well this is what "shooter", YOU baby, chop?
  41. 0
    14 July 2014 12: 03
    Quote: padonok.71
    "for defeat

    So this was the author’s key word.
    All the same, 400 for suppression from the PKK is too far, "its distance" the last dash is 100 maximum 200. For sluggish post-fireballs from the block, there may be more, but it is too big for an assault, from such distances there should be something more significant and a machine gunner with a PKK should until the last dash they will advance together with the attack aircraft.
    PS maybe a little messy wrote but time is running out.
    1. padonok.71
      0
      14 July 2014 16: 01
      Who can argue. It is clear that the "push" is better with a PC (and even better PCVT, tank, etc.). But if there is only the PKK. Then get by with what you have. Regarding the nomination of the RPKman, to the line of the last spurt. That's right, with your "caramultuk" you will look extremely stupid. And such things are better to do in 2, and even better, in 3 "fishing rods". Much easier and safer. And on the snatch, the guys even refuse "oars" in favor of "covs".
      1. anomalocaris
        0
        25 July 2014 15: 49
        Baby, better, KPVT, heavy machine gun Vladimirov Tank. Incidentally, it has a caliber of 14,5. It is installed only on BTRah70, 80.
        Baby, if you have a PKK against KPVT you will be a corpse.
        1. anomalocaris
          0
          26 July 2014 11: 56
          Z.Y. More on BRDMmah. And some tanks ...
  42. 0
    14 July 2014 12: 17
    Quote: gross kaput
    Well, regarding overheating, read the posts above there it is already sucked.

    Stayed like this:
    Quote: padonok.71
    work from the rear sear really "unloads" the thermal regime of the bolt group and the chamber. Within 40-90 gr.

    Once upon a time I was also interested in this issue, I vaguely remember some graphics. Shooting in long bursts with an open shutter there substantially cut off the peaks of the highs on the temperature graph. The temperature rises jerkily with each shot in the queue, decreases quite sharply with the end of the queue, and then gradually equalizes along a gentle curve. And with an open shutter, it initially drops off much faster than with a closed shutter. Those. under such conditions, the weapon gets the opportunity to work longer in normal mode, when the bullets still fly about where the sight is aimed. The main thing is not to release all the ammunition in one burst, but to make cut-offs at least for a second, then the open shutter will manifest itself. An open shutter has little effect on the overall temperature rise.
    Quote: gross kaput
    the main reason for the refusal of the military is the same as the replacement of the RPK with the PKK in the troops - unification

    A good argument for the 30-50s, but very unimportant for the 70s.
  43. 0
    14 July 2014 12: 46
    Quote: gross kaput
    It makes no sense, at such ranges to defeat only a loner, 2-3 only a waste of cartridges even with bipods and with optics.

    And if you need to combine accuracy and the ability to immediately issue a long line in area? Serious machine guns do not even have a translator. By the way, I wonder why the two-way descent instead of the fire translator never gained popularity?
    In general, as I was told, when working from a PKK machine-gunned machine, the translator permanently stands in lines, and at certain points as short lines are issued as can be cut off, normally processing the descent. It turns out two-three. But it remains an opportunity to immediately issue a long queue, if on the other side he decides to stir something en masse. In such situations, time goes by a split second, there is no time for the translator to pull. No one has been seen yet, but you yourself already cannot lean out, not to shoot.
    Yes, and my stereotype was postponed, the machine gun should reliably block the shelling sector alone, otherwise it is just an automatic machine with bipods. So I'm interested in the opportunity to complement the RPK74 with a capacious store.
  44. 0
    14 July 2014 16: 03
    Quote: brn521
    By the way, I wonder why the two-way descent instead of the fire translator never gained popularity?

    Why is it needed? Structurally, it is usually more complicated than a translator, requires more "qualified personnel", and a loner is often absent from machine guns because it is not needed.
    Quote: brn521
    It turns out two-three. But it remains possible to immediately issue a long queue, if on the other side something massively stir

    Well, if you're talking about 400 meters, then you will have enough time to change the regime in abundance, and even have a smoke break.
    Well, in general, long queues from the PKK in most cases, this is not PKS tea, it is often the suppression fire (especially on the windows of the building to cover attack aircraft) from the PKK / AK that are led not by short bursts but by a lonely pace.
    Quote: brn521
    So I'm interested in the opportunity to complement the RPK74 with a capacious store

    Yes, there were already attempts, but it didn’t work, because usually it turns out loudly heavy, complex and, accordingly, less reliable. Of the latter, these are four-row fifties - according to reviews they also use far from perfection.
  45. 0
    14 July 2014 16: 10
    Quote: brn521
    The temperature rises jerkily with each shot in the queue, decreases quite sharply with the end of the queue, and then gradually equalizes along a gentle curve.

    It’s not entirely true, the inner layers of the trunk are most heated, during breaks there is a redistribution of heat and the temperature breaks out throughout the thickness, and there is a rather paradoxical phenomenon, there is a positive property in such uneven heating - due to the temperature difference there is an uneven thermal expansion due to which the inner layers are compressed by the outer layers, as a result of which the resistance of the barrel walls to the internal pressure inherent in auto-bonded trunks increases.
  46. padonok.71
    0
    14 July 2014 18: 31
    From AK / RPK / PK it is not at all difficult to shoot single, with the position. ed. (yes, about the PC - I know, after all, the "correct machine gunners brought it), the pace is not high."
    And BRN521, that you want everything from a machine gun. make a rifle. All the same, you won't get such precision. And the mashinman is hung with all sorts of things (from personal experience - 16 horns, zinc, granite, IZS, binoculars, 2 gnki and another car of all sorts of bells and whistles) - what kind of sniping is there. He came running, flopped down, spotted / turned around, 2-3 turns, ran again. And in secrets you won't shoot much. So basically "outright", not up to accuracy.
  47. +1
    15 July 2014 13: 48
    Quote: padonok.71
    From AK / RPK / PC it’s not at all difficult to shoot single, with pos. author

    In a quiet environment when shooting at targets. In a combat situation it is more difficult, the skill can be completely washed out of the skull box by adrenaline flows.
    Quote: padonok.71
    And BRN521 that you want everything from a machine gun sn. make a rifle.

    No, I'm just trying to figure out how to make the "support weapon" more like a machine gun in terms of the range of tasks to be solved.
    Well, accuracy should not be forgotten, with a heavy barrel and bipod, there are more opportunities for accurate shooting than assault rifles. Of course, this should be used.
    Quote: padonok.71
    He ran, flopped, spotted / turned, 2-3 lines, ran again.
    During military operations according to the classical Russian type, an erupted group may well be cut into the task of gaining a foothold and holding. In such situations, the unfortunate PKK can easily fall on the ridge a dubious honor: to try to do the work of a full-fledged machine gun. That's interesting, to what versatility the hybrid can be brought. The PC is good, but heavy, and only some weightlifter can beat it on the move from it. This means that he will have to be dragged to the task on purpose, and most of the time he will not work.
  48. 0
    15 July 2014 13: 54
    Quote: gross kaput
    Why is it needed? Structurally, it is usually more complicated than a translator

    It seems to be quite comparable complexity. In fact, one detail.
    Quote: gross kaput
    requires more "qualified personnel"

    That is the question, the more difficult it is to handle such a descent. Only the uneven pace of the first two shots in the line comes to mind. I don’t know how critical this is.
    Quote: gross kaput
    Well, if you're talking about 400 meters, then you will have enough time to change the regime in abundance, and even have a smoke break.

    Except for the situation when the machine gunner keeps the direction alone. In this case, the farther the enemy, the better that the machine gun had an advantage over machine guns. If close, then either crush with fire, or throw grenades from grenade launchers.
    Quote: gross kaput
    often suppression fire (especially on the windows of the building to cover attack aircraft) from the RPK / AK is conducted not by short bursts but by a lonely pace.

    So the machine gun is PKM / PKP on the bipod, and the PKK is a misunderstanding, called the support weapon. Because of what, the concept of light PKM / PKP on bipods is interesting, chambered for 5,45, and with the possibility of automatic stores to eat.
    Quote: gross kaput
    Yes, there were already attempts, but it didn’t work, because usually it turns out loudly heavy, complex and, accordingly, less reliable.

    And yet, what if you look back at the tape diet? A box with an equipped ribbon for PCM for 100/200 rounds weighs 3,4 / 6,2 kg. Go to the cartridge 5,45 * 39. This is how much due to the reduced weight of the cartridge will take? It seems about -1kg / -2kg, if not more. Already real weights are obtained. And the links of the tape will also become easier. In general, an interesting task is to get an aggregate from which you can shoot accurately on the go with carob feeding. And if necessary, fill the tape with 200 rounds.
    Quote: gross kaput
    the resistance of the barrel walls to the internal pressure inherent in auto-bonded trunks increases.

    Strength is already more than sufficient. Only barrel wear with temperature rises sharply. And the accuracy decreases to the point that the bullets no longer fly, but fall out with useless garbage. The task for the machine gun: bullets should go aiming as long as possible. Just catch the dropsy on the barrel, in the appendage to the tape for 200 rounds.

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"