Military solution of the Ukrainian crisis

54
Parallels ...

1. The Eritrean War of Independence went from 1961 to 1991. But the most interesting are her last three years. Despite the overwhelming superiority in manpower and technology of the metropolis, Ethiopia fell apart like a house of cards within a few days, following the defeat of its army corps under Afabet. The government fled the country. Causes of defeat - a political crisis, an economic collapse, the reluctance of the army to fight, demoralization of society.

2. War of Abkhazia for independence, 1992-1993 Despite the superiority in manpower and technology, the war was lost by the Georgians. 16-27 September 1993, the battle broke out that went into history of the conflict as the “Battle of Sukhum”, which had fatal consequences for the already demoralized Georgian army. In order to strengthen their grouping, the Georgians tried to transfer troops to Sukhum on civilian aircraft. The Abkhazians launched a real hunt for airliners and managed to shoot down several aircraft from MANPADS on boats that landed at the Sukhum airport. The reasons for the defeat of Georgia are the internal crisis of the system, the economic collapse, the reluctance of the army to fight, the lack of support from society.

3. First Chechen war. Despite the overwhelming superiority in manpower and equipment of the Russian troops, 6 August 1996, Chechen detachments from 850 to 2000, the militants attacked and captured Grozny. Simultaneously with the storming of Grozny, the Chechens also captured the cities of Gudermes (taken by them without a fight) and Argun (Russian troops kept only the building of the commandant's office). It was the failure of the Russian troops in Grozny that led to the signing of the Khasavyurt cease-fire agreements. Does it make sense again to voice the reasons for the defeat?

4. Our days. Iraq, June 2014. Despite the overwhelming superiority in manpower and technology (15 times!), American weapon and standards, three Iraqi divisions near Mosul, of which one tank, fled to 800 ISIS fighters, who are now actively building up their forces at the expense of new supporters and are preparing to storm Baghdad.

What is the essence of these parallels with the situation in Ukraine? The crisis of the state system, a very realistic economic collapse, a growing unwillingness to die for leaders who do not reflect the aspirations of the people, a gradual understanding of the harmfulness of domestic nationalism.

There is also a military component: war in the Southeast is a war in the conditions of urban agglomerations, the most difficult form of hostilities. Donbass is the most urbanized region of Ukraine, the distance between Kramatorsk and Slavyansk is 15 km, and the border between Donetsk and Makeevka is purely arbitrary. It is possible to win in such a war only in the conditions of support of the local population or genocide - the destruction of cities and infrastructure with heavy artillery with the passage of the local population through filtration camps with subsequent resettlement in the regions of the loyalists.

What is the level of support of the population in the Donbass of the LC and the DPR, now only intelligence knows. But indirect evidence suggests that Kiev will not be able to win this war, everything that could be captured with little blood has already been captured, only big blood and even more destruction will continue, which is why Poroshenko went to negotiate with the rebels.

Drawn by rock Ukraine goes to a fatal military defeat, similar to those listed above. It is only a matter of time. Questions "where" and "how" leave to the consideration of site visitors who are knowledgeable in military affairs.
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54 comments
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  1. +19
    26 June 2014 08: 21
    Positive article. Only a successful outcome is not yet a foregone conclusion. Military happiness is changeable.
    The help of New Russia is needed. In any form.
    1. +8
      26 June 2014 08: 36
      We all watched the fights and brawls of the opposition within the walls of the Rada, the blocking of meetings. The show was watched by the whole world. The West admired this "democracy".
      Now this "show" has gone beyond the Rada.
      In the same forceful way, they decided to fight the dissent of the southeast. They don’t know another way. The result is a bloody massacre.
      1. Stypor23
        +3
        26 June 2014 11: 11
        Aya here remembered how, 6 years ago, the Kievites arranged a teleconference with Eidelshtein. They laughed, laughed at him, and he sits with a calm, calm look and answers them? and wonders how he managed to get in touch with insane persons. There were some Afghans who beat themselves in the chest with the words I am Ukrainian, a pretty woman and 2 identical intellectuals. Take a look on YouTube, there should be vidyuha
        PS Edelstein is Zhirik
      2. oplot112
        +1
        26 June 2014 12: 11
        cool GIF is just about the topic of the article
    2. +2
      26 June 2014 09: 26
      that's right - it's too early to rejoice ...
    3. +2
      26 June 2014 10: 14
      Strategically, Ukraine lost when it agreed to a rendezvous with mattresses. The military defeat of the junta, and it will happen without fail, will be the end of the existence of the puppet regime in Kiev.
      1. 0
        26 June 2014 13: 04
        Quote: Thought Giant
        Strategically Ukraine lost

        When I went for Mazepa, Bandera, Shukhevych, Kravchuk and Co.
        Strategically, she won only during the USSR and after the collapse of the USSR. There are no more winnings.
        1. WKS
          0
          26 June 2014 13: 56
          Quote: Drednout
          Strategically, Ukraine lost when it agreed to a rendezvous with mattresses. The military defeat of the junta, and it will happen without fail, will be the end of the existence of the puppet regime in Kiev.
          Strategically, Ukraine lost 23 years ago when it proclaimed independence and unitarianism as a guarantee of this independence. Now the time allotted for independent existence has expired. The country is falling apart. The question now is how long this collapse will last? And what will be the pay in terms of the number of victims? If the United States and some countries of Western Europe did not slow down the process of collapse, it would have ended faster and with less casualties. In the process of the collapse of this state, the United States wants to simultaneously destroy as much of the industrial and intellectual potential of Ukraine as possible.
        2. koshh
          0
          26 June 2014 16: 47
          Quote: Drednout
          Strategically, she won only during the USSR and after the collapse of the USSR

          With the collapse of the USSR, the main defeat of the Outskirts began.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. +2
      26 June 2014 10: 44
      Quote: Angro Magno
      Only a successful outcome is not yet a foregone conclusion.


      Already a foregone conclusion: the client died and only the funeral has not yet taken place. From Ukraine remained the Ruin. All Ukraine is gone. The patient’s soul slowly leaves the body.
    7. +1
      26 June 2014 12: 38
      Quote: Angro Magno
      The help of New Russia is needed. In any form.

      That's right, help is needed!
      The main thing, perhaps, is "what is the level of support of the population in the Donbass of the LPR and DPR?"
      Judging by the referendum, the level of support is significant, but the degree is important. The support will be full or almost complete, plus the help of the Russian Federation and the scenario of Ethiopia and Iraq is quite applicable to Ukraine.
      Most likely, the collapse of Bandera’s propaganda of unnatural state education will be the best way out for everyone.
      1. 0
        26 June 2014 20: 27
        The fate of dill is a foregone conclusion.
    8. 0
      11 July 2014 10: 38
      So for today 11 July:

      General conclusions. In the coming days, the main operations of the militia will be the destruction of the encircled units of punishers (two airports Donetsk and Lugansk and the southern border near Saur Mogila). In total, there are from 3 to 4 thousand enemy soldiers in the cauldrons. The destruction of these groups (and the chances are now greater than ever) must be carried out as quickly as possible. In a week (after the completion of the regrouping of the punishers) the chances will be much less. Therefore, there is some "haste". Encouragingly, there is a militia artillery fist at every significant point. It is, in fact, the main "argument" in the unfolding battle. Accordingly, for the junta it is necessary at any cost to unblock its encircled detachments as soon as possible. If they do not succeed, then in addition to large human losses (comparable to losses for the entire period of the fighting), the troops of the junta risk leaving large "trophies" of armored vehicles in the hands of the militia. which can radically change the situation on the fronts.

      It is necessary to advance without this, there is no victory.
  2. +8
    26 June 2014 08: 23
    "... indirect facts indicate that Kiev will no longer be able to win this war, they have already captured everything that could be captured with little blood."

    NOT FORCE WINS, BUT SPIRIT!
    The only question is what price will be paid for the Victory?
    1. +1
      26 June 2014 08: 36
      Quote: Shveps
      "... indirect facts indicate that Kiev will no longer be able to win this war, they have already captured everything that could be captured with little blood."

      NOT FORCE WINS, BUT SPIRIT!
      The only question is what price will be paid for the Victory?


      This is not a confrontation between two armies. Even if the Ukrainian army won a military victory and occupied the cities, it is very doubtful that this will end. In urban conditions, a war can be waged for a very, very long time. But the Nazis will not succeed in destroying the cities in droves and massively destroying the masses again - OUR people pay too much attention to this.
      But even to defeat militarily the Ukrainian army is very, very difficult. They have no strength, no resources, no will.
      Whether they like it or not, whether Poroshenko will be able to "convince" them of this or not, there is still no alternative to a peaceful solution of the problem.
      1. +1
        26 June 2014 09: 15
        Now there are opinions on the fact. What is happening in the East of Ukraine: civil war or the uprising of the East and the operation of government troops ???

        “The Geneva Conventions do not include a definition of 'civil war', but they do include criteria for which a conflict can be considered an 'armed conflict of a non-international character', including civil wars. There are four criteria:

        The parties to the uprising must possess part of the national territory.
        Revolted civilian authorities must de facto have power over the population in a certain part of the country.
        The rebels must have some recognition as a belligerent.
        The government "is obliged to resort to regular military force against rebels with a military organization."

        "In terms of duration, three large groups of civil wars can be distinguished:
        - lasting less than a year
        - lasting from a year to 5 years
        -long civil wars lasting 5 years or more ,, "

        "Scientists researching the causes of civil wars consider two main factors that cause them. One factor can be ethnic, social or religious differences between people. Another factor is the economic interests of individuals or groups. Scientific analysis shows that economic and structural factors are more important than factors of identification of population groups ...
        It has been established that ethnic domination leads to an increase in the likelihood of a civil war. On the contrary, religious and ethnic fragmentation reduces the risk of war.
      2. koshh
        0
        26 June 2014 16: 50
        Quote: andj61
        But even to defeat militarily the Ukrainian army is very, very difficult.


        Naturally, because she does not fight with the army. but with his people. Therefore, it will never win.
    2. +6
      26 June 2014 09: 01
      If victory was easy, then its value would be low. What goes with blood is highly valued. By the people themselves! And the fact that they brought it up on a silver platter was quickly forgotten. Yes, then more and resentment strangles that gave little. After all, the outskirts after the partition of the USSR received huge industrial potential, 3 huge military districts, and so what?
      Where is all this? The industry is still rolling by inertia, and even then with the help of orders from Russia, the army was ruined and plundered. There was a big resentment against Russia, why they live poorly. And if Outskirts, like Russia in the 90s, received all this through blood, corns and tears, then they would have been valued differently. In my opinion, Novorossia should be helped now, and I regard assistance to the outskirts as a crime. Do not feed the horse, again everything will be overlooked. the Americans, after all, wanted Russia to pay for the outlying economy, to supply gas for free, and also to be a scapegoat if it didn’t work out.
      1. +1
        26 June 2014 12: 50
        They with pans and buckets on their heads also jump, a nightmare of mass insanity in the country.
      2. 0
        26 June 2014 14: 57
        Less to you, Russia's share in the Donbass industry is no more than 20 percent. However, I admit, this share could be much larger if not for Ukrainian legislation and officials. And you can see in you a theorist who does not know the real situation of the industry of Donbass.
    3. -1
      26 June 2014 09: 15
      Quote: Shveps
      NOT FORCE WINS, BUT SPIRIT!

      Add.
      - What is the strength in, brother?
      - Power is in the truth.
      1. +6
        26 June 2014 10: 13
        No, power is in Newtons ...
    4. 0
      26 June 2014 10: 12
      Alas, victory is most often given a lot of blood. Therefore, tearful talk of losses is not entirely appropriate.
  3. +3
    26 June 2014 08: 23
    The conclusion suggests itself, so the east will eventually separate, and the western regions will depart to Poland ?! And Kiev will remain within the borders of the 17 century. That's ....
  4. +3
    26 June 2014 08: 24
    Thanks to the author, but this "porridge" was cooked for 23 years! And no one intervened, everyone and everything was fine, but when it boiled and flowed over the edges ... who is to blame? Nanny again?
  5. +3
    26 June 2014 08: 26
    Raguli are so greyhounds, because look at the example of Serbian Krajina, which was cleansed by the Croatian Natsik with the support and connivance of Europe
  6. +4
    26 June 2014 08: 28
    The solution is one, while the people of Ukraine are in a nap, do not wait for quick victories, wake up Ukraine, fight for your own happiness. Until the Bandera junta is destroyed, do not wait. The decision is yours ...
    1. 0
      26 June 2014 08: 43
      If all the men of Donbass stand up - Natsik will lie down.
      1. +4
        26 June 2014 08: 57
        Quote: DMB3000
        If all the men of Donbass stand up - Natsik will lie down.

        If a.
        1. 0
          26 June 2014 13: 08
          Quote: anip
          Quote: DMB3000
          If all the men of Donbass stand up - Natsik will lie down.

          If a.

          It seems that the miners got up. Or not?
      2. 0
        26 June 2014 15: 02
        Well, here’s another one, they’ve chewed for three months already, but still such comments arise. We have a battalion of 400 people of whom are fighting with weapons of an 43 fighter. For a long time already everyone stood up but there is nothing to do here without weapons.
  7. StolzSS
    +3
    26 June 2014 08: 33
    I think it is necessary to clarify that filtering and resettlement in the regions of loyalists is also an inapplicable option for dill because in Syria, from the border regions of the Kurds to the center of the country, they settled under Bashar the Elder. And we see with what it turned out now. I think dill really try to drive out, and those who do not run away to cut us and it is very sad ... All hope for the militias of the South-East, God help them ...
  8. +2
    26 June 2014 08: 34
    The militias will get their way, the independent republics will be, Ukraine will no longer be the same ...
    Quote: Shveps
    NOT FORCE WINS, BUT SPIRIT!

    It is truth.
    Quote: Angro Magno
    The help of New Russia is needed. In any form.

    Yes sir!
    Quote: Magic Archer
    The conclusion suggests itself ... and the western regions will depart to Poland ?!

    But the Poles need it ???
    1. +1
      26 June 2014 08: 57
      Exactly! Not so long ago there was a hearing in the Sejm where the question of Galicia’s accession was not ambiguously discussed. Here on the site was an interesting article on this subject.
    2. +1
      26 June 2014 08: 58
      Quote: Tatar 174
      But the Poles need it ???

      Nobody canceled the idea of ​​od morza do morza. As it was, it is.
    3. 0
      26 June 2014 09: 05
      Here are the Poles and must be punished with the western regions of the Outskirts.
      Let the dashing dash, then they will sit quietly!
      1. +1
        26 June 2014 10: 01
        Quote: boris-1230
        Here are the Poles and must be punished with the western regions of the Outskirts.

        The Rusyns published in their mass media on the memory that Yatsenyuk promised to give up three Galician regions at the negotiations in Poland. Poland. No wonder the Hungarian Ministry of Foreign Affairs was worried there and spoke out for the fact that they too would protect ethnic Hungarians.
        1. koshh
          0
          26 June 2014 17: 45
          Quote: Egoza
          Yatsenyuk promised to negotiate in Poland to give three Galician reg. Poland.


          Honestly, it would not be bad. Just imagine how the Galician and Polish Russophobes clash among themselves. I prove to each other who is more of them Russophobe.
  9. +1
    26 June 2014 08: 37
    "The crisis of the system of government", irritation of society, etc. - this led to the defeat of the attacking side.
    The naked, impoverished USSR defeated Hitler mainly due to the unified spirit of the people.
    In Ukraine, society’s irritation due to war is growing - why are young conscripts dying? Monstrously.
    Deep article - thanks!
    1. +4
      26 June 2014 09: 00
      Quote: shishakova
      The naked, impoverished USSR defeated Hitler

      Well, actually, before the war, the USSR was no longer pauper and not naked. Therefore, he won.
      The beggars and the naked were Africans, when their Europeans conquered, and therefore colonial empires arose.
  10. +10
    26 June 2014 08: 40
    Dear community ... an article with hidden rhetoric about our unsuitability ... I quote a small FALSE:

    It was the failure of the Russian troops in Grozny that led to the signing of the Khasavyurt ceasefire agreements.

    There were failures before ... BUT there were also victories ... and there were more victories ... and only betrayal in the echelons of power led to the "Khasavyurt" agreements. Who was there - they know on their own ... the rest to argue and do not advise.
    1. +1
      26 June 2014 09: 01
      Quote: silberwolf88
      and only betrayal in the echelons of power led to the "Khasavyurt" agreements.

      I agree. +.
  11. +1
    26 June 2014 08: 42
    So it is, where there is total support for the local population, there will be a victory with small bloods of small units supported. And if you capture cities against the will of the local population, then each city will be Stalingrad, with all the ensuing consequences, i.e. large-scale war with enormous destruction.
  12. +1
    26 June 2014 08: 43
    The meaning is always the same - if you want to do something well, do it yourself. And no external force will completely solve the internal problems of the Ruins, at best it will freeze at some stage for the time being. We will help the active part of the population of New Russia, the bourgeois - Tseeurope, but until the bulk of the population wakes up, there will be no sense.
    This is not the first time I repeat - this is a purely Yugoslav scenario, when the bulk of the work to save the country for the Serbs was to be done by someone else (Russia), because they themselves can not - they are busy working abroad, they earn money.
    1. 0
      26 June 2014 09: 02
      Quote: inkass_98
      We will help the active part of the population of New Russia, the bourgeois - Tseeurope, but until the bulk of the population wakes up, there will be no sense.

      If everyone will help, then he won’t wake up. No reason. And it will be so good.
      1. 0
        26 June 2014 15: 08
        Well, yes, it was assumed that there would soon be no one to help.
    2. 0
      26 June 2014 15: 07
      For the brakes, everyone woke up long ago, where are the weapons? Or are the Islamists in Libya Syria and now in Iraq fighting with weapons made at home on their knees? For some reason, the Saudis support their own without looking back, and we consider each cartridge.
  13. 0
    26 June 2014 08: 46
    the outcome of the war is pretty clear -
    a junta will be put on a soap stake ...
  14. +2
    26 June 2014 08: 51
    Quote: shishakova
    The naked, impoverished USSR defeated Hitler mainly due to the unified spirit of the people.



    in general, you need to think before writing this, I'm not talking about the spirit of the people
  15. zzz
    zzz
    +2
    26 June 2014 08: 52
    What is the level of population support in the Donbass of the LPR and DPR, only intelligence knows now.

    My sister arrived 3 days ago. Tells so. Those who are against, there are few of them, but ... these are young people, from 16 to 25, who, apparently chipped or stoned, walk in groups, mainly at night, can kill for nothing at any time, and hide. criminals were released from the prisons, then the locals think that these youngsters are being led by "gods". The police just can't handle it. Among themselves, of course, everyone is on the side of Russia, and for joining Russia. For some reason they believe that Russia will take them away.
    1. 0
      26 June 2014 15: 10
      I don’t even know what your sister is about, where we are in control, there is neither looting nor any godfathers, we even brought out jerks.
  16. Cheldon
    +5
    26 June 2014 08: 55
    Chechnya is exclusively a chain of betrayal of Kremlin figures with massive media support. As I recall, Sorokin would like to use foul language. One half-Ukrainian Swan, which he did. The author here seems not to be in the know, to put it mildly.
  17. 0
    26 June 2014 08: 59
    The balance of power is gradually shifting towards the militias. If everything remains the same, then the militias will really take Kiev, if of course they want to. I’m only afraid that in the event of a clear preponderance of the militia forces, Kiev’s scumbag will either use WMD, or their owners, spitting on all the laws, will send NATO troops. It seems to me that the banderlogs and their owners went all-in and will stop at nothing.
  18. +1
    26 June 2014 09: 11
    Each new Kiev bomb on the land of peaceful cities is an additional argument in favor of the militia. However, there are also such dogs that love a stick, God will judge them.
  19. 0
    26 June 2014 09: 14
    The Rubicon has been passed and it will be difficult, simply impossible, to stop on both sides. In this case, only a harsh third-party reaction remains. but what kind of side it will be is a big question.
  20. +1
    26 June 2014 09: 15
    Well, yes, betrayal at the top led to the Khasavyurt agreements, when they practically stole our victory. By the way, Swan was sickly on this.
    1. 0
      26 June 2014 10: 34
      He got his.
      But those who are at the top ... As stink, so stink.
      Yesterday, for example, on this site, the article was Leontiev. There, he loudly called Surkov a patriot in the Russian elite. What time!
      Well, if Surkov is a patriot, then I imagine what then NOT patriots ...
  21. +4
    26 June 2014 09: 19
    The article assumes the development of events on the basis of existing conditions. But! I would not say so peremptorily, because the conditions can change (and change) constantly.
    For instance; Armed Forces of Ukraine take control of the border.
    Then, using the unconditional support, military and technical assistance of the United States, Armed Forces of Ukraine begin to use shock drones (again, American vehicles and operators) That's it! About militias with MANPADS can be forgotten. Further, the massive use of aviation in human settlements.
    Yes, fighting in settlements is very difficult and Kiev is not eager to get involved in them. But. He doesn’t need it. Artillery shelling will ultimately lead to the complete destruction and exodus of the population. This is what Kiev is seeking.
    Conclusion:
    Without the recognition of Novorosia by Russia, without open material and technical support, and specialists, the support of Novorosia, without the active political, economic and military assistance of Russia, Novorossia may not survive.
    Yes, for some time the militia will heroically resist and the tacit, limited help from Russia contributes to this, but there is no reception against scrap.
    1. 0
      26 June 2014 15: 17
      True in terms of assistance from Russia, the rest is not at all true. The sabotage war is just unfolding, there is not enough weapons to replace experienced fighters leaving for the DRG at the checkpoints, it is decided upon receipt. And shelling cities and even simply moving artillery in a full-blown guerrilla war will become impossible.
  22. +3
    26 June 2014 10: 21
    The first Chechen war. Despite the overwhelming superiority in the manpower and equipment of the Russian troops, on 6 of August 1996 of the year, Chechen detachments of from 850 to 2000 militants attacked and captured Grozny. At the same time as the assault on Grozny, the Chechens also captured the cities of Gudermes (taken without a fight) and Argun (Russian troops kept only the commandant’s building). It was the failure of the Russian troops in Grozny that led to the signing of the Khasavyurt ceasefire agreements. Does it make sense to reiterate the reasons for the defeat?


    Yes, it does, the military simply was not allowed to kill the bandits, and there is no point in comparing the Russian army with the Georgians and especially the Africans. Or do you think that the Russian army in 99-2000 was stronger than in 96? Line two, just in the 99th no one interfered with the military, respectively, heavy weapons solved the problem radically. And Russian Chechens were always shot without special questions, like the Negroes of each other, in order to somehow talk about the army’s unwillingness to fight.

    Our days. Iraq, June 2014. Despite the overwhelming superiority in manpower and equipment (15 times!), American weapons and standards, three Iraqi divisions near Mosul, of which one is armored, fled before the 800 ISIS fighters, who are now actively building up their forces at the expense of new supporters and are preparing for the assault on Baghdad.


    Or maybe there weren’t 800 there, as well as three divisions? Or a third of the division consisted of sympathetic rebels? Under Hussein, the Iraqi army crushed the same Kurds quite completely stupid, like the other armies of the 3 world.

    Let's not think that a bunch of partisans can do something for the regular army. There is no such thing. In Novorossia, in fact, the Ukrainian army does not physically possess the resources sufficient to control the territory. For this, 80-100 thousand units are needed, tanks and howitzers cannot hold the territory, an attempt to simply destroy everything with artillery would have ended long ago with a new Nuremberg and the West would not have been able to utter a bell, so there’s a mild shelling assuming that the population will get tired, or it will leave the territory. There is no doubt about the help from the Russian Federation as military experts, which allows us to win tactical battles with a bunch of corpses near ukrov. Well, ukroarmia itself is the same offspring of ukriya as everything else, in its embroidered degradation, in principle, it is not able to fight with Russians.
  23. +1
    26 June 2014 10: 47
    All options except the complete liberation of New Russia are unacceptable, now go to the end.
    1. 0
      26 June 2014 12: 26
      moreover, it is necessary to obtain an answer for conducting military operations with specific people, and not to threaten with a finger, such as being spoiled and that's enough.
  24. +1
    26 June 2014 11: 32
    Quote: Angro Magno
    Positive article. Only a successful outcome is not yet a foregone conclusion. Military happiness is changeable.
    The help of New Russia is needed. In any form.

    We will certainly provide assistance to NEW RUSSIA by all means. soldier drinks
  25. Ivan 63
    +1
    26 June 2014 12: 36
    Age of Aquarius - Time of Russia.
  26. Andof odessa
    +1
    26 June 2014 12: 59
    You know you are talking about civil war. Before that, it was said about the revolution. So there is no YET in Ukraine a civil war. There is a war of interested parties. And accidental / necessary casualties among the local population. The civil war will start later. When the economy falls below the floor. most banks will go bust. the social sphere will die. then they will forget about external enemies and remember about the internal ones who first went to the Maidan or anti Maidan. and the only way to survive will be "bang your neighbor, he is not like you, bang you survive" and then the civil war will begin. but right now it is only a premonition, the east feels what these changes will cost it. The West is all in dreams in pink snot about happiness. Kiev rubs its hands as the loot goes through them, and the south, while there is trade, hopes that everything will pass by.
    1. +1
      26 June 2014 15: 20
      Nonsense, the neighbor on the right is fighting with me, on the left is too old but at the checkpoint. Do not be fooled by yourself and us, it is civilian, the east against the rest of the urine.
      1. Andof odessa
        0
        26 June 2014 16: 05
        Tell me, couch warriors are already fighting too, or is the whole struggle on volunteers and initiative ones? That's when the sofa warriors will participate, then there will be civilian. In the meantime, a war of interested parties. and there is no war of the east against all of Ukraine. because all of Ukraine VERY WANTS NORMAL LIFE and the war does not fit into the concept of NORMAL. those who want war and support it defend someone's interest. and if someone considers this interest to be their own, then you can congratulate the means of dusting the brains they have achieved their goal. here you wrote fighting with you for what exactly are you fighting for? in simple words.
  27. 0
    26 June 2014 13: 19
    Quote: AndofOdessa
    So there is no AS long in Ukraine civil war. There is a war of interested parties.

    Reminds the wars in Africa for the possession of oil fields, diamond mines and uranium mines. An example is Angola, after the USSR and Cuba left it.
  28. 0
    26 June 2014 13: 31
    Quote: Normal
    The article assumes the development of events on the basis of existing conditions. But! I would not say so peremptorily, because the conditions can change (and change) constantly.
    For instance; Armed Forces of Ukraine take control of the border.
    Then, using the unconditional support, military and technical assistance of the United States, Armed Forces of Ukraine begin to use shock drones (again, American vehicles and operators) That's it! About militias with MANPADS can be forgotten. Further, the massive use of aviation in human settlements.
    Yes, fighting in settlements is very difficult and Kiev is not eager to get involved in them. But. He doesn’t need it. Artillery shelling will ultimately lead to the complete destruction and exodus of the population. This is what Kiev is seeking.
    Conclusion:
    Without the recognition of Novorosia by Russia, without open material and technical support, and specialists, the support of Novorosia, without the active political, economic and military assistance of Russia, Novorossia may not survive.
    Yes, for some time the militia will heroically resist and the tacit, limited help from Russia contributes to this, but there is no reception against scrap.

    Firstly, the use of American drones with American operators is the direct participation of the United States in the armed conflict in Ukraine. The Americans will not do this. Secondly, the Americans will not use their drones in Ukraine, since it is not a problem to bring them down, and given the fact that the Russian volunteers are also fighting in the Donbass, the probability of secret military equipment falling into the hands of Russian specialists almost 100% naya (I think not a single Russian military will refuse to crash the Amer drone if it appears in the sky of Donbass? When will the case come again?). Thirdly, practice shows (Afghanistan, Iraq) that shock drones cannot, even with massive use, ensure not even a victory, but at least a decrease in the intensity of the partisan war. They can only increase the number of civilian casualties.
    The trouble is that no one, including the Kiev "authorities", knows the goals of this civil war: too many forces are involved - the Americans, the Europeans (and they are by no means monolithic, since various European and American financial groups may have opposite goals ), local oligarchs, Russian oligarchs, Russian authorities, the leadership of the DPR and LPR, ordinary residents of Donetsk and Lugansk with Slavyansk and Kramatorsk, etc. At the same time, each force has its own pocket armed formations that obey only it and no one else? So who will answer what is the purpose of this war? There is no way to answer this unequivocally. Accordingly, this war can last indefinitely, and it is impossible to agree, since it is unrealistic to put ALL parties to the conflict at the negotiating table.
    1. 0
      26 June 2014 15: 25
      Yes, I forgot about it, reconnaissance drones and now enough. Our fighter, grandfather is already an Afghan veteran, an order bearer, damaged one of the SVD without optics. It’s strange, by the way, that she’s fighting with her, she’s not putting optics.
      1. 0
        26 June 2014 15: 46
        It depends on what purposes the SVD is used. If it’s like a sniper, then optics is desirable (though you must be able to use this sight), but if it’s just like an assault rifle (unlike the modern Kalashnikov with its 5,45 SVD’s caliber under certain conditions with its wild kill), then the optical sight only interferes and increases weight
  29. 0
    26 June 2014 16: 34
    Not so simple! Fortune telling animals before a football match. Comparison of wars seems inappropriate. Different reasons for these wars and different endings. The Russian-Chechen war was out of place mentioned. Everything is yet to come! To begin the devastation, and then the seizure of local authorities, banks and business facilities, the collapse of state cars, the army, special services and pseudo-illegal formations. There will be small-town atamans and various leaders. Opposing groups have not yet been formed. And I think that under such circumstances, NATO will send troops to loyal territories earlier than Russia.
    To prevent this from happening, Novorossia needs to create its own statehood not only on paper, but also in the minds of the inhabitants. Defeat the Kiev junta and get the support of the rest of the population of education "Ukraine". But this is a return to the past, and where is the ideology of such a process? Is that an unambiguous transition to Russia? The Ukrainian position in life will prevail. There is no military solution yet. This is not World War II.

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