"Is Stalin to blame for the defeat of the beginning of World War II?"

74
«Виноват ли Сталин в поражениях начала Великой Отечественной войны»Soviet political leadership proceeded from an understanding of the inevitability of a global military conflict.

22 June 1941, Germany and its allies attacked the Soviet Union. As is known, the initial period of the war was very difficult for our country, and there is still a sharp debate in society about the reasons for the first defeats of the Red Army.

Often the main object of criticism is I.V. Stalin, who is often blamed for the fact that he, in fact, disrupted the preparation of our country for war. More N.S. Khrushchev brought this charge in a famous report on the exposure of the "personality cult" at the XX Congress. “Sufficient measures were not taken,” he argued from the congress rostrum, “in order to prepare the country well for defense and to eliminate the moment of surprise attack.” Did we have time and opportunities for such training? Yes, both time and opportunities were. ”

The cult of Stalin was, above all, a cult of the winner — not so much the general secretary as the Generalissimo, so it was crucial for Khrushchev to separate the image of Stalin and the image of Victory. And in the future, the myth of Stalin's "opposition" to preparation for war was already used to disavow the entire Soviet project. This mythology was embedded in the following logical chain. The Soviet model was focused on ensuring the functioning of the armed forces, but the USSR was not ready for war. It means that the system itself was unsuitable, which failed according to the main criterion of success for itself.

The substitution in organized anti-Stalinist criticism was to confuse the strategic and operational-tactical levels of war. Yes, unpreparedness to repel the first strike from the enemy 22 on June 1941 of the year can be assessed as an operational-tactical miscalculation, but this does not mean that the war preparation strategy itself was missing.

The fact that the enemy would attack 22 on June was not obvious, contrary to the statement made by Khrushchev at the 20th Congress. Information received by Stalin through intelligence channels contradicted each other. In particular, it was known that the Wehrmacht categorically objected to the prospect of waging war on two fronts - simultaneously against the British and Russians. This was indicated in his memoirs by General PA. Sudoplatov. The reports that the Germans would still start a war against the USSR called several dates - 14 and 15 in May, 20 and 21 in May, 15 in June, and finally, 22 in June. The operational-tactical miscalculation, of course, was. But a similar miscalculation was made by Franklin Roosevelt, who failed several months later to prevent the defeat of the US Navy at Pearl Harbor.

When assessing the war at the strategic level, it is obvious that the USSR was not just preparing to respond to military challenges, but forced training. Historically, the typology of wars has changed. The wars of the twentieth century were fundamentally different from the wars of antiquity and the Middle Ages. They faced not only the army, but also systems that included political, economic, social, ideological, cultural components. For all these components, the Soviet Union carried out modernization on the eve of the war. The military perspective and determined the content of the Stalinist policy 1930-s.

The fact that the preparation for the coming war began long before 1941 of the year testifies to the high strategic nature of state power in the USSR. The Soviet political leadership proceeded from the understanding of the inevitability of a global military conflict and prepared for it. The fact of the correct definition of the world development scenario itself indicates the high cognitive potential of the theoretical model used by it.

Forced Soviet industrialization (“at any cost”) could not be adequately explained without the context of an external military threat. By the year 1941, the mechanized military fist of the USSR was created, and the West was not able to go into the technological gap. A series of mobilization unpopular measures taken in the economic sphere in the very run-up to the war — the introduction of criminal liability for being late for work, the prohibition of unauthorized exit from enterprises, the publication of a decree on responsibility for producing poor quality or incomplete products and for non-compliance with mandatory standards, the transition from the seven-hour to the eight-hour working day and from the six-day to seven-day working week. All these steps are explained by one thing - to be in time ...

The prospect of war forced the former ideological schemes to change substantially. Instead of the left-international ideology, a new value system is adopted, built on appeals to traditional value accumulations of Russia, the Russian factor and the heroics of the national historical past. The power Stalinist rotation of elites is also not least due to considerations about the need for new cadres - political and military - in the perspective of the coming global clash.

The preparations for the upcoming war largely determined the cultural content of the 1930s. A series of films and literary works dedicated to the great historical the victories of Russia. A mass cult of military service is being formed by artistic means. The words of one of the most popular Soviet pre-war songs - “If the war is tomorrow ...” (1938) accurately reflect the mobilization spirit of the time.

Why, then, did Soviet troops retreat at the initial stage of the war? The point here, of course, is not the surprise of the attack: after all, after the victory near Moscow there was a new retreat of 1942 of the year. The USSR was opposed by the war not only Germany, but, in fact, the whole continental Europe. One colossal civilization force collided with another. But if we still weigh the potentials of both forces according to the above-listed list of components of the ability to war, the advantage was on the Soviet side. The enemy surpassed at the initial stage of the hostilities (and even with certain reservations) only in one of them - military-technical. But in all the other components of the overall ability of the system to war, the Soviet Union had an advantage. According to this logic, the war for Germany could only be successful if it was short-lived. Hence the blitzkrieg strategy.

With a long temporal sweep of the war, the Soviet Union would objectively defeat. The entire set of advantages in non-combat components of the conduct of war would, in the end, also be transformed into an advantage in terms of the actual combat dimension. So in the end what happened. The value of 1941 of the year was precisely in disrupting the plans of the enemy according to the lightning war scenario.

Today, the challenges of a new big war are becoming more and more obvious. Has past experience been taken into account? Is modern Russia ready for it? Comparison of the country's readiness for the military scenario in 1941 and 2014 is obviously not in favor of the Russian Federation. Time is largely already lost, and only a new forced mobilization covering all areas of living arrangement leaves a chance.
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

74 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Eugeniy_369k
    +3
    25 June 2014 08: 42
    The author of copy-paste paste instructed to become about nothing, and at least connected them among themselves.
    About Roosevelt generally killed.
    But a similar miscalculation was made by Franklin Roosevelt, who failed to prevent the defeat of the US Navy at Pearl Harbor a few months later.

    Samurai Americans could not make a better gift.
    By the way, as soon as he began to change his comrades-in-arms in the battles in Tsaritsino for regular military personnel, a turning point was outlined in the war.
    In July 1918, Kliment Efremovich Voroshilov, with the remnants of the partisans driven out by Ukraine by German troops, entered the Tsaritsyn area. Voroshilov - 2 classes of the Zemstvo school, no military experience and, as it becomes clear, the complete absence of military talents. And he, and other partisan commanders who advanced after the revolution, did not want to obey former officers. Stalin supported them, and they swore allegiance to him. For fifteen years Voroshilov was the people's commissar of defense. Before the war, he was replaced by Marshal Tymoshenko. Semyon Konstantinovich, a former machine gunner, was also next to the leader in Tsaritsyno.

    Tsaritsynets Marshal Grigory Ivanovich Kulik became the deputy people's commissar for armaments. Co-workers, including those who were close to Stalin, drew the leader's attention to the fact that the marshal lacked a common culture and military education: behind him a two-year school and one-year courses. Kulik was not able to evaluate the rockets - the famous Katyushas, ​​and resisted their adoption.
    But Stalin rejected doubts: “I know Kulik from Tsaritsyn”.
    When the Great Patriotic War began, Marshal Kulik completely failed at the front, lost both his position and title, and then his life itself ...

    Stalin made yet another Tsaritsynian, People's Commissar of Defense, Efim Anatolyevich Schadenko, a militarily illiterate man. Schadenko received the high rank of Colonel-General, four Orders of Lenin, four Orders of the Red Banner, the military order of Suvorov of the second degree, became a member of the Central Committee and deputy of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR.
    “Pathological greed and skopidomstvo added to swagger and arrogance,” recalled the chief military prosecutor, Lieutenant-General of Justice Nikolai Afanasyev. - At his own cottage in Bakovka, Shchadenko traded fruits and vegetables and saved up money. Having become ill, he took his pillows, blankets and mattresses to the Kremlin hospital. When he died, money appeared in the mattress - over 160 thousand rubles. He died on them. I know this because I had to draw up an act about the incident and send a military prosecutor to the hospital for this. ”

    In the 41st leader tried 28 generals for the role of front commanders. Every third was a native of the First Cavalry Army (comrades-in-arms of Budyonny and Voroshilov) or Tsaritsyn. A month or two later, Stalin dismissed them. All proved unsuitable for high posts. I had to turn to real professionals.
    1. +2
      25 June 2014 10: 26
      Samurai Americans could not make a better gift.


      Yes, according to this scheme, the United States entered the war:
      Spanish-American voyea 1898 - explosion on the battleship "MAN", the result - war.
      First World War - the sinking of the steamer Lusitania.
      World War II - Pearl Harbor
      Vietnam War - the destroyer "Maddox" was fired upon, and then the declaration of war and the entry of troops.

      P.S. Maybe the USA has something wrong with the fleet?
    2. +1
      25 June 2014 10: 52
      Quote: Eugeniy_369k
      Tsaritsynets Marshal Grigory Ivanovich Kulik became the deputy people's commissar for armaments.

      Yes, Kulik was really a famous retrograde and bureaucrats. In particular, it was at his filing that the tank corps were disbanded, then, when it was decided to re-form them, he in every possible way slowed down this decision, using his official position. Also known is its unseemly and fatal role in the fate of the URs (fortified areas), both on the old border and newly created ones. Marshal Zhukov touches on this topic in passing in his "Memoirs and Reflections". The place for the construction of the URs' cover for the new border was chosen unsuccessfully, in addition, they did not have time to build and arm them to the end, but for some reason, weapons and personnel were removed from the old fortifications, as a result neither these nor these were ready. During my service in Khmelnytsky, I had the opportunity to personally examine several pillboxes that have survived to our time on the old border, in particular, I visited a heavy artillery pillbox in the Volochisk area, though not the top floor, I did not dare to go down to the lower ones, since they were half-submerged and in a machine-gun pillbox in the area of ​​Letichev. They leave a serious impression, both in terms of design and quality of work, and if everything was complete, the Germans would not have overcome this line immediately. Nevertheless, despite the gross mistakes made by Kulik, Stalin for some reason favored him.
    3. +6
      25 June 2014 11: 45
      Quote: Eugeniy_369k
      Every third was a native of the First Cavalry Army (comrades-in-arms of Budyonny and Voroshilov) or Tsaritsyn. A month or two later, Stalin dismissed them. All proved unsuitable for high posts. I had to turn to real professionals.
      Present the information in a tendentious way. The failures of the initial period of the Second World War are not connected with the fact that Stalin in all command posts appointed his comrades-in-arms and immigrants from the 1st horse. The reasons for the failures are systemic. Who would not have been ordered to command the western districts and armies, no one I couldn’t fulfill my combat mission. Systemic flaws were gradually corrected, the command and rank and file personnel gained combat experience, which predetermined a turning point in the war. Well, those of the military commanders who were fortunate enough to be in command posts by this time reached Victory. The general idea, of course, was the exception.
      1. Eugeniy_369k
        +3
        25 June 2014 13: 00
        Quote: krpmlws
        Bring up the info tendentiously

        Well, biased
        Before the war, one prominent military leader was arrested. He sat for more than a year. The war began, and his knowledge was needed. He was taken from prison directly to the Politburo, and Stalin informed him that he was being appointed to a high post.
        - And why did I sit for so long without trial? asked the military.
        Stalin turned to the members of the Politburo and joked:
        - He is still unhappy!

        The failures of the initial period of the Second World War are in no way connected with the fact that Stalin in all command posts placed his comrades-in-arms and immigrants from the 1st horse.

        Still connected
        The first meetings of the General Headquarters of the Armed Forces in June were held without Stalin. The chairmanship of the USSR people's commissar of defense, Marshal S.K. Timoshenko, was only nominal. As a member of the General Headquarters, I had to attend only one of these meetings, but it was easy to notice: the people's commissar of defense is not prepared for the position he held. Yes, and members of the Bet too. The functions of each were not clear - there was no provision on the Bet. The people who were part of it were completely not going to obey the drug of defense. They demanded from him reports, information, even a report on his actions. S.K. Timoshenko and G.K. Zhukov reported on the situation on land fronts ...
        - N. G. Kuznetsov. On the eve of

        Or do you think that the people's commissar of defense is a wedding general?
        The causes of failure are systemic.

        I agree with this, not who created this system?
        We endlessly scolded Comrade Stalin, and, of course, for the cause. And still I want to ask - who wrote four million denunciations?

        PS
        Rokossovsky was released from prison. In the fall of 1941, he received a division. This division fought very successfully. Soon, Stalin recalled Rokossovsky from the front to give him a larger appointment.
        - Do you know the German military doctrine well?
        - No, comrade Stalin.
        - And with the structure and armament of the German army?
        - No, comrade Stalin. After all, in recent years I have been sitting.
        - Found time to sit back!

        You see such bias ... what
        1. Kubanets
          +3
          25 June 2014 14: 23
          The statement about "their own cavalrymen" in leading positions was an invention of the anti-Stalinists with the aim of pinning the pogrom 41 exclusively on Stalin. The reality is somewhat different. District-front level: Kuznetsov (who Isidorovich) in the civilian on the Western Front. Kirponos in the Shchors division. Pavlov in the civilian since 20 years on the Southern Front at Yegorov. Separately here Tyulenev is the chief of staff of the cavalry division of the 1st cavalry. The same is the same and in the army corps link. To consider the defeats of 41 dividing the command staff into our own and not ours is biased and superficial.
        2. +6
          25 June 2014 21: 33
          Where did you get these Murzilka? Rokossovsky was rehabilitated in 1940 and commanded from the first day of the war 5mech / corps. This is not a question of repressions of the com / composition, but the fact that the author you are relying on is a dumbbell.
        3. +1
          25 June 2014 22: 56
          What a horror !!! In addition to Soviet generals (senior commanders), this Stalin beheaded Polish, Norwegian, Danish, Dutch, Belgian, French, Yugoslav, Greek, English (in some places) well, even if there were Sierra Leonean armies (and some of them were at war with the Reich more half a year)
        4. +7
          26 June 2014 06: 58
          Eugeniy_369k Eugene, K.K. Rokossovsky commanded the 22 mech corps for the 41 yin of the 9 of the year, the 4 army in July, and the 16 army in October, well, not like a division !!!!! Coming from the First Horse, so on a voyage, Zhukov, Eremenko, Gorbatov, Moskolenko, Rybalko, Lelyushenko, Apanasenko, Meretskov, Grechko, Pliev, they are also mediocre? .... why cast a shadow on the wattle fence?
          PS Pavlov, Vlasov, Kozlov did not serve under the leadership of Budyonny.
        5. Sugar Honeyovich
          0
          29 June 2014 17: 48
          And who is this military leader who was appointed to high office from prison?
    4. 0
      25 June 2014 14: 31
      It is difficult to say - was it possible to remove them before? After all, the Ruler does not rest on the people, but on his associates. And start chopping bitches (in the sense of removing your companions), he suddenly dies of heart failure.
    5. Sugar Honeyovich
      0
      29 June 2014 17: 53
      It is somewhat exaggerated that people from the First Horse Army or the Tsaritsynians were removed from their posts by the Commander Fronts in 1941 after a month or two. Mostly they commanded the fronts for months, or even years. And they fought no worse than others.
      And as for Roosevelt, to put it mildly, his puncture was much stupider than Stalin's.
  2. +1
    25 June 2014 08: 42
    And how to fight if the army is full of sabotage and desertion. Heroism was also massive, of course. But the order "not a step back" was invented from scratch. After all, how the troops were formed - the locals served in the Kiev military district. Among them there were a lot of former Makhnovists, Petliurites and their offspring.
    1. +2
      25 June 2014 10: 18
      Read somehow the recollections of the war veterans and their relation to Order No. 227. You will be surprised, but the attitude was the most positive. No one wanted to back down and everyone wanted to be absolutely sure of themselves and their comrades.
      And the penalty companies still appear at I.I. Strelkova, and people in them are deservedly. Do you think in the 8 of the millionth army there were no looters, robbers and cowards?
      On penal battalions I would recommend reading Pyltsyn AB "Penalty Kick, or How the Officer Penal Battalion Reached Berlin".
      1. +1
        25 June 2014 17: 38
        Excuse me, but what about Pikul? or his "Barbarossa" does not count?

        PS incidentally, the title of the article does not match the content
        1. +4
          25 June 2014 17: 41
          Excuse me, but what about Pikul? no longer a front-line soldier or his "Barbarossa" does not count?


          With all my great respect for the talent and work of V. Pikul, this was still a fiction writer, he wrote popular books, but not scientific works.
  3. Argyn-suindyk
    +2
    25 June 2014 09: 13
    ! Everything about it has already been written, it has been ripped off and something has been added there, the article looks like plagiarism!
  4. calocha
    -4
    25 June 2014 09: 19
    Stalin is not to blame! Guilty - Tymoshenko, Zhukov, etc. Since the directive of the 18th day in the troops ... got on June 22. Martirosyan in his books describes everything in detail, except how to BE WRITTEN AND TAMMER the actions of the top of the General Staff - IT IS IMPOSSIBLE! Under Khrushchev, 80 documents of that time were destroyed - the children noticed traces ...
    1. +1
      25 June 2014 09: 45
      Quote: calocha
      Under Khrushchev, 80 documents of that time were destroyed; the children swept traces ...


      Do you know for sure that exactly 80 thousand, and not 79 or 81, are no more and no less? And I wonder who these guys have specific data?
    2. -1
      25 June 2014 09: 45
      Quote: calocha
      Under Khrushchev, 80 documents of that time were destroyed; the children swept traces ...


      Do you know for sure that exactly 80 thousand, and not 79 or 81, are no more and no less? And I wonder who these guys have specific data?
      1. +1
        25 June 2014 09: 59
        Read Martirosyan’s book; maybe there will be fewer questions. Just being opposed to an opinion is not constructive.
        1. +1
          25 June 2014 13: 54
          Smol79 RU Today, 09:59 a.m. ↑
          Martirosyan’s book ...
          All writers on the question of the beginning of the war by Nazi Germany against the USSR in some obscure way miss the statements of Comrade I. Stalin at the prewar congresses of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks. The 17 congresses of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks (January 26 - February 10, 1934) and especially “STALIN I.V. REPORTING REPORT TO THE XVII CONGRESS OF THE PARTY ON THE WORK OF THE CPSU CPSU (B.) January 26, 1934, evening meeting ..
          1. The general crisis of the capitalist system. "
          “The current economic crisis in the capitalist countries differs from all similar crises, among other things, in that it is the longest and most protracted. If earlier crises were settled in 1-2 years, then the current crisis has been going on for the fifth year, devastating the economy of the capitalist countries year after year and sucking out the fat accumulated in previous years. Not surprisingly, this crisis is the worst of all crises. ”
          2. “The result of the protracted economic crisis was an unprecedented hitherto aggravation of the political situation of the capitalist countries both within and between these countries ... The intensification of the struggle for foreign markets, the destruction of the last vestiges of free trade, prohibitive customs duties, trade war, currency war, dumping and many other similar events, demonstrating extreme nationalism in economic policy, exacerbated relations between countries, created the ground for military clashes and put the war on the line as a means of a new redivision of the world and spheres of influence in favor of stronger states .. "
          1. +2
            25 June 2014 13: 56
            3. What will the crisis lead to ... "The case is clearly leading to a new war."
            “As you see, the matter is moving towards a new imperialist war, as a way out of the current situation.”
            “Chauvinism and the preparation of war, as the main elements of foreign policy, curbing the working class and terror in the field of domestic politics, as a necessary means to strengthen the rear of future military fronts, are the things that particularly occupy modern imperialist politicians now.
            Not surprisingly, fascism has now become the most fashionable commodity among militant bourgeois politicians. I am talking not only about fascism in general, but primarily about fascism of the German type, which is incorrectly called National Socialism, because with the most careful examination it is impossible to find even an atom of socialism in it.
            In this connection, the victory of fascism in Germany must be regarded not only as a sign of the weakness of the working class and the result of the betrayal of social democracy by the working class, which cleared the way for fascism. It should also be considered as a sign of the weakness of the bourgeoisie, as a sign that the bourgeoisie is no longer able to dominate the old methods of parliamentarism and bourgeois democracy, in view of which it is forced to resort to terrorist methods of government in domestic politics, as a sign that it is not in forces more to find a way out of the current situation on the basis of peaceful foreign policy, ... "
            4. Comrade And In Stalin concludes what the started war can lead to - the war will lead to the collapse of the capital system in Europe and Asia and the breakaway of some states from it.
            “Of course, there is no reason to believe that war can provide a real way out. On the contrary, it should confuse the situation even more. Moreover, it will surely unleash a revolution and call into question the very existence of capitalism in a number of countries, as was the case during the first imperialist war ... ”
            ..According to the results of the 1st World War: “They did not destroy Germany, but they sowed such hatred of the victors in Germany and created such rich soil for revenge that they still cannot, and, perhaps, will not be able to clean up that disgusting porridge, which they themselves brewed. But on the other hand, they received the defeat of capitalism in Russia, the victory of the proletarian revolution in Russia and - of course - the Soviet Union. Where is the guarantee that the second imperialist war will give them "better" results than the first "...
            .. "There can hardly be any doubt that the second war against the USSR will lead to the complete defeat of the attackers, to a revolution in a number of countries in Europe and Asia and to the defeat of the bourgeois-landlord governments of these countries." "
            The main thing is not even any doubt that the victory will be for the USSR ..
            …читайте. http://www.hrono.info/dokum/1934vkpb17/1_2_1.php
            and then they say suddenness .. since 1934 already on the…
            ..yes his analysis as if He speaks today and now ..
    3. +1
      25 June 2014 10: 34
      calocha (3) Today, 09:19 New
      "Stalin is not to blame! We are to blame .."
      "Fleet and" combat readiness "June 22"
      http://liewar.ru/tragediya-22-iyunya/172-flot-i-boevaya-gotovnost-22-iyunya.html

      No. 2 - ... "how the general situation was assessed, in which our exercise began on June 14 (the exercise of the Black Sea Fleet jointly with units of the Odessa Military District in the northwestern region of the sea and on the adjacent coastal areas. The very time of its holding said a lot. Usually, exercises of this magnitude were organized much later, in the fall, - they sort of summed up the summer training campaign ... PS-this is just like 08/08/08 the assigned strategic scientist in the south "Kavkaz-08" was held in July ..))) , the following detail can give an idea: a special signal was set, which meant that the exercise was interrupted and the fleet immediately switched to the level of high alert that would be assigned ....

      On June 18, the teaching ended, and the ships began to return to Sevastopol. However, the fleet maintained operational readiness number two.
      No. 1 - "" Readiness was announced to the units of the coastal defense sector of the Libavsk and Vindavsk naval bases No. 1 "...."
      In Sevastopol: "Operational readiness No. 1 was announced by the fleet at 01:15 on June 22, 1941."
      “At 02 hours all the ships and parts of the fleet were already almost fully operational. No one was taken by surprise. ... "
      And now let's see what the command-order to the fleet was about the transfer of the fleet from the increased battlefield. in full. After they brought to Kuznetsov Tymoshenko and Zhukov “Directive No. 1”.

      “Here is this telegram:
      “Northern Fleet, KBF, Black Sea Fleet, PVF, Far Eastern Federal District. Immediate availability No. 1 immediately. Kuznetsov. "
      (PVF - Pinsk military flotilla. DVF - Danube military flotilla. - approx. Ed.) "
      Look at how clearly the admiral of the fleet, People's Commissar of the USSR Navy N.G. Kuznetsov received a copy of Directive No. 1 from Timoshenko and Zhukov. He did what was required of him - gave a short order-command, "like a shot" !!! ""
      .... a package, and there it says "bring ... such into combat readiness" Full ... and that's it !!!
    4. +1
      25 June 2014 23: 08
      Since 1938, when we had introduced military service of the commanding staff there were 150 thousand people, by the summer of 1941 - 580 thousand. The army in 1938 - 1,6 million by the end of 1940 - 3,5 million - it was simply IMPOSSIBLE to prepare. There was NOTHING in the country:
      Industry was just beginning (engine building, oil refining, and much more), there are very few personnel (both military and civilian), the problem of power (cleaning), international isolation (problems after Finland and Japan) ....
      And you consider problems in wrecking and sabotage - this is very small.
  5. +3
    25 June 2014 10: 04
    After the death of STALIN, the enemies of STALIN and the entire Soviet people who seized power, all the bad and their sabotage were attributed to STALIN, and all the good that he did was copied to themselves. But history has shown that they haven’t done anything good for the people, but have only been screaming at everything that Stalin did. soldier
  6. 0
    25 June 2014 10: 23
    Quote: Argyn-Suindyk
    ! Everything about it has already been written, it has been ripped off and something has been added there, the article looks like plagiarism!

    Since everything is obviously enlightening for you, who is to blame for the failures of the initial period of the war? I read a lot about it, but there were no less questions.
    1. +1
      25 June 2014 10: 31
      Just yesterday left a comment on this issue.

      1. Defensive lines were suitable for defense, but blind defense gives a tactical advantage to the enemy, respectively, active defense is needed.
      2. The Stalin line was preparing to receive troops, but these were second-tier troops, equipped with personnel as they mobilized.
      3. Naturally, the personnel army was advanced to the Molotov Line, since the enemy had to be met at the front lines. Arms and aircraft also went there.
      3. No one had any illusions regarding the date of the German offensive; the day and time and forces of the enemy were known.
      The army was ready.

      And now about the causes of the defeat of the initial period of the Second World War:
      1. The Germans were strong, very strong, moreover, it was the strongest army in the world at that time.
      2. Direct betrayal of the leadership of the Red Army: General Pavlov, in fact, opened his front to the enemy, the tanks of the Western Front were gathered in one fist and sent incomprehensibly to where, and they did not have fuel in stock, it was a one-way ticket.
      The order to bring troops into combat readiness from June 18 of 1941 was not executed. That is why in the same Brest Fortress there were 2 Soviet divisions.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +2
        25 June 2014 12: 57
        Quote: thrower
        2. Direct betrayal of the leadership of the Red Army: General Pavlov, in fact, opened his front to the enemy, the tanks of the Western Front were gathered in one fist and sent incomprehensibly to where, and they did not have fuel in stock, it was a one-way ticket. The order to bring troops into combat readiness of June 18, 1941 was not executed. That is why 2 Soviet divisions appeared in the same Brest Fortress.


        There is no need to repeat fables about traitors and spies in the command of the Red Army - Rokossovsky, Meretskov and Gorbatov, too, at one time, "vigilant comrades" rushed to arrest and announce them as spies, and that ... Pavlov was simply not ready to command such a colossus as the Western Military District ( Western Front) - commanded as best he could, lost control of the troops, but the front did not open to anyone, there is no documentary evidence of this (including in the verdict), no need to invent ...
        Nobody was collecting tanks in one fist either - for example, by the beginning of the war, the 22nd Panzer Division had remained in its town (near the Bug) in the border strip and suffered heavy losses on the very first day of the war ... That's just the point that, unfortunately, the tank units were not used as one shock fist, but individually, as splayed fingers, with minimal efficiency ...
        In the same Brest Fortress there were not two divisions, but only a few units and subunits of the 6th and 42 rifle divisions, the rest of the army and district subordination (including the battalion of the NKVD escort troops, the district school of drivers, border guards, etc. There are already enough materials published on this subject - by the beginning of the war there were only 9 thousand people in the fortress, which is less than the staff of one rifle division, and certainly not two. Exposing some myths does not need to produce others ....
        1. 0
          25 June 2014 13: 22
          this is less than the staffing of one arrow division


          I take your word for it, but the strength of the rifle division was 7200 people.

          No need to repeat fables about traitors and spies in the command of the Red Army


          Why is it fiction then ??? If a person in court pleads guilty, then he is guilty. relations with the Reichswehr at the top of the Red Army were very close, only Uborevich studied in Germany for 1,5 of the year. Do you think these connections suddenly disappeared? What was Yagoda talking at the court -
          “VYSHINSKY. You have chosen the means to overthrow the insurrection at the time of predominantly war. This is true?
          Berry. No, it is not. Armed rebellion is a meaningless thing. Only these talkers could think of this.
          VYSHINSKY. And what were you thinking about?
          Berry. About the “palace coup”.
          VYSHINSKY. That is, a violent coup made by a narrow group of conspirators?
          Berry. Yes, just like them.
          VYSHINSKY. Mostly timed to coincide with a military attack on the USSR by foreign states, or did you have different options?
          Berry. There was only one option: to capture the Kremlin. Time doesn't matter. ”
          1. 0
            25 June 2014 14: 43
            Since I studied in Germany, it means that shpien is an interesting logic ...
            PS And what side does Yagoda belong to the command of the Red Army, he is from another department, before him, by the way, there was another wrecker, Yezhov ... Well, what is the price of their efforts to expose the enemies in the ranks of the Red Army - after their own confessions .. .
            1. +1
              25 June 2014 15: 22
              1. Berry was the People's Commissar of the NKVD until Yezhov.
              2. From the transcript of the trial:
              “Member of the court Dybenko. Have you ever considered yourself a member of our party?
              Tukhachevsky. Yes.
              Dybenko. ... How can you combine this betrayal, betrayal and espionage: ... with the fact that you carried a party ticket?
              Tukhachevsky. ... Of course, there is a split: on the one hand, I had a passionate love for the Red Army, a passionate love for the fatherland, which I defended from the Civil War, but at the same time the logic of the struggle dragged me into these deepest crimes, in which I admit myself guilty.
              Dybenko. How can you combine a passionate love for the homeland with treason and betrayal?
              Tukhachevsky. I repeat that the logic of the struggle, when you take the wrong path, leads to betrayal and betrayal. "

              3. It was not espionage (to get cookies for information or actions / inaction, it was a conspiracy. These people wanted to take power, but they failed, the conspiracy was uncovered.
      3. 0
        25 June 2014 23: 15
        Pavlov was not a traitor, he was simply out of place - this is incompetence. As well as the failure to comply with the order to disperse aviation, to create a command post, and many others. "It's worse than a crime - it's a mistake." Although the lordship in the highest command structure is a remnant from the time of Trotsky.
    2. 0
      25 June 2014 15: 17
      Quote: bairat
      Quote: Argyn-Suindyk
      ! Everything about it has already been written, it has been ripped off and something has been added there, the article looks like plagiarism!

      Since everything is obviously enlightening for you, who is to blame for the failures of the initial period of the war? I read a lot about it, but there were no less questions.

      In the defeat of the army in the first months of the war (as well as in all the others), Stalin had the biggest VIN as the first head of state. In Victory in the Great Patriotic War, Stalin has the greatest merit as the first leader of the state (if we talk about the role of the individual in history), and if we don’t stoop to personalities in defeats and victories, all people participate in one degree or another of both warring states.
      1. +1
        25 June 2014 16: 23
        Quote: Semurg
        In the defeat of the army in the first months of the war (as well as in all the others), Stalin had the biggest VIN as the first head of state.

        You are not right. The Germans were ahead of us in terms of mobilizing and deploying troops, and this was not due to any shortcomings of the Russians, but simply because of the large size of our country, and this was the reason for the difficult situation at the beginning of the war. The problem is actually nontrivial, and it has no solution; even tsarist generals puzzled over this problem.
        Of course, there were other reasons, for example shell hunger in connection with the transfer of plants to the east. The enemy had a numerical advantage; the Third Reich with its allies exceeded the USSR in population by two times, and in industrial potential by four times.

        P.S. Then Ivan the Terrible will be to blame for the defeats of the Red Army at the beginning of World War II, it was he who created such a large state wink
    3. The comment was deleted.
  7. +2
    25 June 2014 10: 31
    I can only advise the author to read more, and the resource takes a closer look at the publication of articles. With such a bias, students will soon be published here.
  8. padonok.71
    +1
    25 June 2014 10: 49
    The topic is very complex, non-targeted. But to blame, is it not to blame, Stalin? Guilty of course! After all, he is not some kind of freelance bureaucrat. He, the supreme commander, no one is above him. Therefore, he is personally responsible for success and failure. the principle of unity of command, and then, and by the way, now (a stone in the garden of GDP, for 1, 2 Chechen companies), no one has canceled.
    1. +2
      25 June 2014 15: 19
      Regarding the 1 Chechen, what is the fault of her successes and failures of the First Deputy Prime Minister of St. Petersburg (VV Putin held this position at that time)
      1. padonok.71
        0
        25 June 2014 19: 50
        Oh, I'm sorry generously. Of course, EBN is 1,2th and GDP is 2nd.
        As in the rhyme:
        Outside the window, snow and hail
        This is Putin's fault
        etc.
  9. +1
    25 June 2014 11: 18
    Of course, Stalin's share of the disaster of the Red Army in the summer of 41 is also considerable. He had tremendous authority and practically all decisions, even insignificant ones, had to be coordinated with him. Then he tried to shift the blame from himself, expressing the opinion that the military leadership itself should have taken measures guided by the Regulations. But that was not the case, it was practically impossible. A terrible suspicion and spy mania reigned in Soviet society in those years, after the devastating repressions of 1937-39, when hundreds and even thousands of innocent commanders and military specialists were arrested and shot as spies and saboteurs. In their place were appointed inexperienced, frightened to death, mostly young people who were afraid to breathe without the command of a superior boss. What kind of "Charters" and independent actions are already there. And the command from above for the occupation of field positions by troops arrived too late, literally just before the German invasion, and did not reach most of the units and subunits at all, as a result, almost all aviation, tanks and artillery were destroyed at airfields and in parks. This largely predetermined the tragedy that the border troops of the Red Army had to experience.
    1. +2
      25 June 2014 12: 38
      The repressions of 1937 are far from straightforward. Read E. Prudnikova "Secrets of Stalinist repressions".

      After the devastating repressions of the 1937-39 years, when hundreds and even thousands of innocent commanders and military specialists were arrested and shot as spies and wreckers


      For example Tukhachevsky, Yakir, Uborevich, Egorov, etc. ???

      In their place were appointed inexperienced, terrified to death, mostly young people who were afraid to breathe without the command of a superior.


      For example Baghramyan, Vasilevsky, Rokossovsky, Chernyakhovsky, etc. ???

      And the command from above to take the field positions by the troops arrived too late, just before the German invasion


      18 June 1941, according to other sources 16 June 1941 years. Do you think there were few 4 days to take a position?
      Parts of the border troops subordinate to the NKVD complied with the order, so there was something else here? For example, direct betrayal.
      1. -1
        25 June 2014 16: 43
        Quote: thrower
        The repressions of 1937 - a far from straightforward process

        - Did I say that this is a straightforward process? I fully admit that some part (obviously miserable in the scale of repression) was really involved in some kind of conspiracy or worked for foreign intelligence, but is this the reason to destroy all the commanders, almost 100% of division commanders and 80% of regiment commanders?
        - What about Baghramyan and Chernyakhovsky? Work in the central office of the Moscow Region and the General Staff requires great experience and the more valuable the employee, the longer he works there. But Rokossovsky was also repressed, and only the guarantee of Zhukov and Tymoshenko saved him from death in the camps.
        - Zhukov in his "Memories and Reflections" clearly describes this moment. The directive to the troops about bringing them to the highest degree of combat readiness, occupying field fortifications and airfields was sent on the night of June 22, literally before the attack of Nazi Germany. I do not think that the chief of the General Staff distorted the truth here out of forgetfulness or on purpose.
        - And these are different departments and, accordingly, their troops were subject to different orders. The border troops were part of the NKVD system and were subordinate to Beria.
        1. +1
          25 June 2014 17: 16
          I fully admit that some part (obviously miserable in the scale of repression)


          The fact of the matter is that it is not scanty - both deputy people's commissars of defense, almost all the commanders of the districts. This is the elite, these are the best of the best. This is the army of Saddam Hussein before the invasion of the Americans - ordinary soldiers are ready to fight, but the total betrayal of the highest military elite prevented.

          What about Baghramyan and Chernyakhovsky?


          I.Kh. Bagramyan started the war as a colonel, and ended with a marshal.

          - Zhukov in his "Memories and Reflections" clearly describes this moment


          Share Zhukov’s memoirs on 10, he was the chief of the General Staff and the directive on putting the troops on combat alert should have come from him, of course, that he would not write badly about himself.

          - And these are different departments and, accordingly, their troops obeyed different orders


          and the Baltic and Black Sea Fleets, to whom did they obey? That's right - the commander of the respective military districts. But they were put on alert.
          1. +1
            25 June 2014 18: 21
            Quote: thrower
            The Baltic and Black Sea Fleets were subordinate to whom? That's right - the commander of the respective military districts.


            Wrong, the fleets were not subordinate to the commanders of the districts - they were subordinate to the Navy Commissar Kuznetsov (there was a separate Navy Commissariat). hi
            1. 0
              25 June 2014 18: 57
              I'm sorry, I made a mistake with the dates.

              10 July 1941 The State Defense Committee formed three high command North-West, West and South-West directions. The Northern and Red Banner Baltic Fleets were subordinated to the High Command of the North-West direction, the Black Sea Fleet - to the High Command of the South-West direction.


              http://www.biografia.ru/arhiv/flot12.html
          2. -2
            25 June 2014 21: 34
            That is, you insist on your own, believe that Stalin, as head of state, is not to blame for the tragically prevailing events for the Red Army in the summer of 1941 and justify the unreasonably numerous repressions not only against the command staff of the Red Army, but the party, economic apparatus, ordinary ordinary people? And were these also in the conspiracy? For example, an old woman, Kalinin’s wife, was also arrested and imprisoned. What was the plot? You have less faith in all prudnikovy and rezunami. The latter got to the point that he accused Stalin of preparing an attack on Germany and that Hitler simply warned him. Of course, I respect Stalin for creating a powerful industrialized state from scratch. But at what cost? How many nice beautiful buildings were destroyed, only because it was a church. For example, the Cathedral of Christ the Savior was blown up. And although I do not believe in God, it was a symbol of victory over Napoleon and just a beautiful building! How many lives and destinies have been broken. Is it not from this that 180 Russians fought on the side of the Germans?
            1. 0
              25 June 2014 23: 29
              Do you think that "the old woman, Kalinin's wife was also arrested and imprisoned" this affects "the tragic events for the Red Army in the summer of 1941 and justify the unreasonably numerous repressions not only against the command staff of the Red Army, but the party, economic apparatus, ordinary ordinary people"?
              The argument is completely unconvincing.
              1. 0
                26 June 2014 05: 20
                [
                Quote: evgen762
                The argument is completely unconvincing

                If you are already minus, then take the trouble to substantiate your position, and do not hide behind "anguments".
  10. +1
    25 June 2014 11: 50
    1. It turns out that the fact that Europe fell under Hitler’s heel is not a mistake of European diplomacy ... 2. Yes, Stalin’s guilt is in the defeats of the beginning of World War II, but ...
    1. +1
      25 June 2014 12: 46
      What surprised me most about the behavior of Europe was this fact: France declared war on Germany on September 3 of the year 1939, and the first soldier died on the Franco-German Front in November 1939 of the year.
      Type "strange war" in Google - that explains a lot.
  11. 0
    25 June 2014 11: 55
    "Today, the challenges of a new big war are becoming increasingly apparent. Has the experience of the past been taken into account? Is modern Russia ready for it?"

    Do not attack the author. The purpose of writing at the end of the article. And the questions are not idle.
    1. +2
      25 June 2014 13: 30
      atos_kin
      Yes, the main postulate is set out in the last paragraph.
      But does the author think about what the mobilization economy will pour out for the country now? He imagines how much the life of the population will worsen, and how will it react to this? Is he able to understand that in this case millions will come to Bolotnaya? I'm not talking about whether it is right now to introduce a mobilization economy from a military-political point of view ... Of course, it is necessary to increase defense capability, and mobility needs to be restored too ... But mobilization? One gets the impression that the author is not fully aware of WHAT he offers, and what his proposal will lead to.
      1. -1
        25 June 2014 13: 40
        Well, if a people prefers to eat sushi instead of rallying in front of real threats and limiting their consumption a bit to save lives, then such a people is doomed. If the government is afraid to let people go from the leash of conspiracy to sit well, then such a government is doomed with the people. But in essence, a mobilization economy is such an economy that will allow not only to produce a certain amount of equipment before the conflict, but also to maintain and increase the level of production during the conflict. Yes, so that this level does not fall from the possible actions of the enemy, and this means there must be a large and extensive production base. And this base, with the right approach, can be used not only for the production of military equipment, the main thing is that it would be.
  12. anomalocaris
    +3
    25 June 2014 12: 15
    Hm. Here opinions were divided again - Stalin was to blame, Stalin was not to blame. All this is understandable, only to dismiss the Wehrmacht, I consider it fundamentally wrong. Do not forget that before the attack on the USSR, Hitler, like a god, carved a turtle throughout Europe. Tell me, who was the saboteur in France? But the Wehrmacht defeated the French army and the English expeditionary force in 40 days. Moreover, they had a natural war, with an announcement, taking up firing positions and mobilization, and this lasted more than one month, so there is no need to talk about surprise. The same goes for Poland. In 1939 it was quite a powerful state with a normal industry and a strong army.
    According to this, I believe that we should not forget that our grandfathers and great-grandfathers were opposed by a perfect military machine, which they could stop and break. Eternal Glory to them!
    1. +2
      25 June 2014 12: 48
      I will add that in Czechoslovakia there were more than 2 million soldiers under arms, plus excellent defensive fortifications.
      But the Czechs were handed over without a fight, like a kefir bottle.
    2. 0
      25 June 2014 18: 36
      Quote: anomalocaris
      Poland. In 1939, it was quite a powerful state with a normal industry and a strong army.


      Relatively strong Polish army - to put it mildly an exaggeration - if we talk about its armament, trained personnel and military talent of the command ... But ordinary soldiers and officers, however, fought as they could. This is not Czechoslovakia with a very developed defense industry and a completely absent desire protect your country.
      1. +1
        25 June 2014 19: 09
        Relatively strong Polish army - to put it mildly an exaggeration - if we talk about its weapons, the training of personnel


        Actually, Poland had its own aircraft and tank building.
        As of June 1 1939, the Polish armed forces numbered 439 718 people, of which in the ground forces - 418 474, aviation - 12 170 and the navy - 9074 people. The number of trained reserves reached 1,5 million people.
        Plus, troops were based on fortified areas (some of which were still built by the Russian Empire before the First World War.
        And seriously, I read somewhere that in Poland they seriously considered the option of invading Germany.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  13. +2
    25 June 2014 13: 06
    As far as I can judge, based on one of the programs of the "Seekers" cycle - "Stalin's Line", in one word - "did not have time." Stalin understood everything and gave an account of the intentions of the "partners". And he created a long-term line of defense from an extensive system of bunkers, on which they wanted to stop the Nazis. But the line was armed only with machine guns, which could not do anything with the tanks. The tanks easily bypassed all the pillboxes ... If the line were equipped with guns, then everything would be different. But they didn't even have time to finish building the entire line ...
    1. 0
      25 June 2014 13: 26
      In addition, all the Defense Lines could not fulfill their role (the Mannerheim Line, the Maginot Line and the Czech and Polish fortified areas). It was possible to rely on them, but it was no longer possible to build all the defense on them, the war became maneuverable.
  14. 0
    25 June 2014 16: 13
    Damn, people, calm down. The order to bring the troops into combat readiness was issued on the 18th. Some comrades, who later paid with their heads, did it carelessly, lazily and waddly. The question of surprise is simply very convenient for explaining the reasons for the defeat, which in reality were objective, but were too complex to be explained to laymen. Indeed, back in the 90s, conscientious military historians chewed these reasons to the bone, but experience shows that it is much easier to take a surprise attack as the reason than the understaffing of mechanized corps, lack of mobilization of rear services and communications, banal more experience of the fascists in full-scale wars and many other objective reasons ... It looks simple to compare the manpower of the sides of 3 million versus 5, but there are always couch strategists who mention "hundreds of thousands of tanks and aircraft" and "the required ratio in the offensive is 3: 1". So let it be better with surprise, it will be easier for everyone.
    1. -2
      25 June 2014 17: 14
      Quote: alicante11
      Damn, people, calm down. The order to bring troops into combat readiness was issued on the 18th.

      Here in front of me is Zhukov's "Memories and Reflections". I quote, page 232: ... The implementation of the measures envisaged by the operational and mobilization plans could have been carried out only by a special decision of the government. This special decision followed only on the night of June 22, 1941 ... End of quote.
      1. 0
        26 June 2014 12: 31
        Here in front of me is Zhukov's "Memories and Reflections". I quote, page 232: ..


        You are confusing increased readiness and deployment according to border cover plans. Moreover, the plan to cover the border did not imply large movements of troops. For example, the fifth army of the South-Western Front managed to withdraw the troops of the first echelon according to plans to cover the border. Although she also received an order "in the night".

        http://fablewar.ru/2011/06/18-06-1941/
      2. 0
        28 June 2014 21: 08
        Quote: bistrov.
        Here in front of me is Zhukov's "Memories and Reflections".

        Print edition? If so, what year?
    2. 0
      25 June 2014 17: 19
      sofa strategists who mention "hundreds of thousands of tanks and aircraft"


      I will add that the number of tanks and aircraft with which Germany began the war had already "ended" by September 1941.
      1. 0
        26 June 2014 12: 41
        Actually, I'm talking about ours :).
  15. +1
    25 June 2014 16: 13
    The conclusion of the article is doubtful
    Time has already been lost to a large extent, and only a new forced mobilization, covering all spheres of life management, leaves a chance.

    Nonsense, in itself does not give a ride. There is no foundation. Any mobilization will lead to internal bickering, the sharing of resources and warm places, rather than effective actions. The exploitation of disinterested enthusiasts and goodwill will be for someone just a successful business.
    Quote: Argyn-Suindyk
    Everything about it has already been written, it has been ripped off and something has been added there, the article looks like plagiarism!

    Yes, but the question is relevant. It is necessary to take into account the experience of the past. We are losing the war, Western values ​​have won, the dirt that served as their foundation is already visible. But do we need a dictatorship? Indeed, practice has repeatedly shown that acquired powers are often used for private mercenary purposes. Now more and more legislative acts are riveting that allow the current government to create complete lawlessness if it wants to. No matter what the current authorities do, it doesn’t happen to change them. Do we believe them that much?
    A serious problem, on the one hand, in a difficult situation, the dictatorship has repeatedly shown its effectiveness. On the other hand, she has a lot of stocks, and historical examples show that she led to collapse more often than resolved sensitive issues. With Stalin, just a positive example, leaked a lot of resources, but still not in vain. The truth is surprising for some to be sure that this can be repeated all the time. The same heroism of the Soviet people, shown in the Second World War, does not grow on the tree, and it will not work to collect it according to the planned harvest.
    Quote: thrower
    No one had any illusions about the date of the German offensive

    In addition to a significant part of the officers, ordinary soldiers and civilians. There were true rumors, but it was forbidden to distribute them. The result of this artificial surprise is a lot of deserters and surrendered when the confusion began.
    Quote: thrower
    The Germans were strong, very strong, moreover, it was the strongest army in the world at that time.

    But it is not a fact that they would risk climbing the USSR, mobilized in a normal way, and not on the principle "the left hand does not know what the right is doing." And even if he took the risk, one tank dug into the ground with a full ammunition load costs hundreds of more advanced tanks on the march, despite the fact that their ammunition load turned out to be as a result of failed plans in general somewhere on the kulichi. There were weapons and ammunition, but they went to the Germans. Were the roads bad? They turned out to be good enough for the Germans. It is obvious that our attempts to defend themselves were completely out of proportion to our capabilities.
    1. 0
      25 June 2014 17: 30
      In addition to a significant part of the officers, ordinary soldiers and civilians.


      This is nothing more than a myth. Mine Kampf was written in 1926, where plans for expanding living space were straightforward. The first clashes with Germany were in the 1939 year - during the liberation of Western Ukraine and Belarus.

      But not the fact that they would risk climbing into the USSR, mobilized in the normal way


      Germany by that time was mobilized, since the war had already been going on for 2 years. But the beginning of the mobilization of the USSR would be regarded by Germany and our future allies as an act of aggression. Start of mobilization = start of war. And in the Far East we had one more "neighbor" who would have been allowed to enter the war against the USSR by a formal reason. But this did not happen and Japan started a war with the United States.
    2. 0
      25 June 2014 20: 46
      Quote: brn521
      And even if he took a chance, one tank dug into the ground with full ammunition costs hundreds of more advanced tanks on the march,

      Unfortunately, the Germans were driving howitzers behind the tanks, the buried tank was an easy target for them.
      1. +2
        25 June 2014 21: 20
        The Germans did not plan to use tanks against tanks at all, enemy tanks had to be destroyed by aircraft and artillery. But this episode is a feat of tankers and tank builders.

        German tankers, convinced of their superiority, very soon after the outbreak of the war, an unpleasant surprise awaited them when they encountered new types of Soviet KV tanks. Already on the second day of the campaign, in the zone of operations of the 6th Panzer Division, a single KV shot a convoy of 12 trucks. The tank was ambushed south of the Dubissa River near Raseinaya. To destroy the HF, they pulled up a battery of 50-mm anti-tank guns. Gun crews managed to covertly get to a distance of 600 meters. The first three shells immediately hit the target, but the enthusiasm of the gunners instantly subsided, because the tank received no visible damage. The battery opened a quick fire, but the next five shells bounced off the armor and went into the sky. The tank tower began to turn in the direction of the German guns, and then the first shot of its 76-mm gun was heard. In a matter of minutes, the battery was destroyed, the Germans suffered heavy losses.
        Soon, from a distance of 900 m, fire was opened on a tank of 88-mm anti-aircraft guns. But ... the very first 76-mm shell hit the German anti-aircraft gun and threw it into the roadside ditch. Cannon crew miraculously did not suffer. However, as soon as the gunners tried to re-deploy the gun, they were literally swept away by the steel shower of the fire of the coaxial tank machine guns. The tank beat without a glitch, preventing the Germans from raising their heads. Only with the onset of night, under cover of darkness, they were able to drag the dead and part of the surviving weapons.
        That night, the Germans decided to act differently. A group of sappers, having made their way to the tank (the type of which they could not determine), laid two powerful explosive charges under it. When they were blown up, the return fire of the tank gun made it clear that the tank was still operational. Moreover, the Russians were able to repel three attacks. The Germans tried to call the dive bombers, but they could not arrive. Then in the next attack on the invulnerable Soviet tank went five light tanks with the support of another 88-mm anti-aircraft guns.
        German tanks, hiding behind the trees, immediately opened fire simultaneously from three directions. The Russian tank entered a duel, but during the maneuvers opened the stern, where two shells of the 88-mm gun fell. An entire flurry of shells hit his armor within seconds. The tower, turning back, froze. German guns continued to send shell after shell into a motionless target. Not a single sign of a car’s sunburn, just a squeal of ricocheting shells. Suddenly the cannon of the tank dropped helplessly. Thinking that the tank was finally disabled, the Germans got closer to their outlandish victim.
        Talking excitedly and not hiding their surprise, they climbed onto the armor. They had never seen anything like it. And then the tower, trembling heavily, turned again. The death of the frightened German soldiers was blown away by the wind. Two sappers, not bewildered, threw a hand grenade through the hole in the tower into the tank.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  16. SIT
    +3
    25 June 2014 17: 06
    Again about June 41st ... Is Pavlov a traitor? And why were the troops not ready? In order to discuss all this, it is necessary to present the tasks that Pavlov and other military commanders faced in the border districts, but we don’t know these tasks, because The district’s operational plans are still secret and no one discussing them has ever seen them. Some kind of maps of fortified areas without the signature of the head of the general staff does not count. The Blitzkrieg Doctrine has been known since 1911. A detailed analysis of Gelb’s operation to defeat France was handed over to the Soviet side by the former French army commander and intelligence acquainted Zhukov with him. What was undertaken in response? How have operational plans changed? The last operational plan signed by Stalin was dated October 14, 1940. It is hopelessly outdated based on an analysis of the French campaign. In December 1940, the Barbarossa plan was signed for implementation. It was implemented by the head of the General Staff of the Wehrmacht Halder, who had served in the General Staff in World War I when Zhukov was a non-commissioned officer. Zhukov, on the other hand, was in the position of head of the general staff for only a few months, and before that he had not been engaged in staff work and did not like her, judging by the characterization given to him by Rokossovsky. So what could Zhukov do in principle in terms of developing a new operational plan? And could he just do it because of his not too high staff qualifications? Have there been at least some Soviet theoretical developments to counter the blitzkrieg strategy? Has anyone ever imagined what actually needs to be done? Judging by the sad results of 1 we can assume that no one. So do not blame everything on one Stalin. He was not a military specialist and he himself could not contribute anything to military science. His fault is that, as the head of state, he did not create a system that could put forward those who could do this. Accordingly, it was necessary to create this system already along the way, and the Red Army commanders had to learn the art of strategy not at the General Staff Academy, but on the battlefields, paying for their lack of education with the blood of soldiers. In the end, how G.K. Zhukov, the Germans taught us to fight, and we weaned them.
    1. 0
      25 June 2014 17: 37
      No comment. You are right, unfortunately you were preparing for the "war of the past", but you had to fight in the present. Therefore, the State Defense Committee was created, which approved the plans for military operations (and in addition, generally took all the power in the country).
  17. +2
    25 June 2014 19: 36
    Of course, kicking a dead lion is easy! All liberal pseudo historians for hell to the museum !!!
  18. +1
    25 June 2014 19: 54
    Quote: thrower
    This is nothing more than a myth. Mine Kampf was written in 1926, where plans for expanding living space were straightforward. The first clashes with Germany were in the 1939 year - during the liberation of Western Ukraine and Belarus.

    Yeah, right now I'll go to the library and ask "Mein Kampf" to read it to check :). If now the book is prohibited, what to say about that time. What did the Pravda newspaper say about the future invasion? This is what everyone, except the initiated, should have known about the future war. People and soldiers are consumables. Their business is to listen to what the party has to say. What did the party tell them before the start of the war? Why are there so many memories and testimonies that the war was unexpected for many? Including personal ones, not everyone is still dead.
    This is a concrete set-up, a moment that calls into question the dream of a just dictatorship. And nevertheless, there are still many eccentrics who dream of tough censorship and "kind" uncles in leather jackets who will determine what is useful to the people and what is not, what is true and what is fiction.
    So that full preparation for the inevitable war was not carried out and was not expected. Can someone dispel my gloomy conclusions and clearly show when and how we started the evacuation of civilians from border areas? Although what are people against the great capitalist or communist ideas? Garbage, consumables.
    1. anomalocaris
      0
      28 June 2014 08: 59
      I wonder where it is banned? In Germany, yes, with us - in any library, including a network one. And to read, not to read ... This is a private matter. Although I don’t know how you can try to figure out what was happening then without understanding the ideas that the masses moved at that time. So it is necessary to read Lenin, and Stalin, and Churchill and Hitler.
      1. 0
        30 June 2014 09: 28
        "In accordance with the Federal Law of July 25, 2002" On Countering Extremist Activity "No. 114-FZ, the distribution of extremist materials on the territory of the Russian Federation is prohibited ...
        In March 2010, by the decision of the Kirovsky District Court of the city of Ufa, the book was recognized as extremist material in the Russian Federation. "
  19. +1
    25 June 2014 19: 54
    Quote: thrower
    But the beginning of the mobilization of the USSR would be regarded by Germany and our future allies as an act of aggression.

    The formalism of the interpretation of such acts is obvious. The main prerequisites for the war, and the occasion is not required, and if not found, it will be created. How would a normal country, and not the USSR, react to the same situation? And another question, was the life of our people in the border areas of this petty political trump card? The Germans did not have any reason for the accumulation of troops in our border zone. So, in my opinion, the car had to be unwound further, put forward warnings, demands and ultimatums that if the accumulation of German troops in the border zone did not stop, we would be forced to prepare to repel the impending aggression. This is much better than almost all aviation burned out at airfields. Airfields with fighter jets that were hit by a bombing bomb are a great example of how everything was provided for and taken into account in our country, how well and timely we were prepared. Or is it also a myth?
    Quote: thrower
    And in the Far East we had one more "neighbor" who would have been allowed to enter the war against the USSR by a formal reason.

    There is little formal reason; prerequisites are needed. Japan was not ready for serious ground operations. They needed only coastal territories, and the more the better, and with us they were only in the Far East. Getting involved in a long war was stupid. Of course, they could attack, drain a bunch of people and resources. But as a result, everything else would not be enough. Large land territories, and even in Siberia, they did not need nafig. The United States had pieces more accessible and fatter. It was much easier for the United States to tackle, and then grab a piece nearby if the USSR lost the war with Germany.
    Quote: SIT
    In the end, how G.K. Zhukov, the Germans taught us to fight, and we weaned them.

    If you study like this every time, no country will be enough. We still have a system like. Learn, practice, generalize, take note. Then comes an uncle, who has unknown to come up to the side, and with one signature crosses it all. What can I say, the military has seen enough of all this thoroughly.
  20. Kubanets
    0
    25 June 2014 23: 31
    Wrong, the fleets were not subordinate to the commanders of the districts - they were subordinate to the Navy Commissar Kuznetsov (there was a separate Navy Commissariat). hi[/ Quote]
    You are wrong. The fleets promptly obeyed the command of the fronts. For example, with the need to leave Tallinn, Tributs turned in the summer of 41 to the commander of the Northwest direction Voroshilov. Later, with such a request to leave Sevastopol, Oktyabrsky addressed the Budyonny commander of the North Caucasus Front.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. 0
      26 June 2014 10: 38
      1. In my commentary, it was about districts - hence the pre-war period - there were no districts during the war (with the exception of the rear).
      2. Nobody canceled the direct subordination of the fleets to Kuznetsov.
      First of all, Oktyabrsky gave a telegram to Kuznetsov, and after giving a report to Stalin, he gave permission to evacuate ... The operational subordination and the direct essence of the thing are different ...
      3. Budenny and Voroshilov commanded directions, not fronts (this is far from the same thing) - the commander of the direction coordinated the actions of several fronts and the fleet, including
  21. 0
    26 June 2014 11: 49
    I downloaded from the Internet "Agony 1941 .." by Irinarhov. He generally believes that the Soviet leadership prepared for the war so thoroughly that it was confident of victory and wanted to quickly begin active actions. For this it was necessary that the Germans finally went over to the offensive. Hence, many strange actions and instructions in June. the order "not to give in to provocations" - in some units, it was not canceled with the beginning of the war. Withdrawal of troops from the border and from fortified areas. Elimination of secret warehouses intended for guerrilla warfare. The behavior of the leadership in the early days of the war. They were sure that everything was captured and taken into account and worked out according to plans drawn up in advance.
    In general, again, underestimating the strength of the enemy and reassessing their own. For example, the order to take up prepared defensive positions, issued on the night of June 22, did not reach some units, although this was apparently part of the plan.
    I withdraw my suspicion that in many units the soldiers did not know about the upcoming war at all. It was certainly stupid of me to think so. They didn't know what to do - it would be more correct. Those. there remains another jamb - an information vacuum. Instead of instructions on what to do in case of direct aggression, they received a short one: "Don't give in to provocations." The adventurism and self-confidence of the leadership eventually played a role, and the soldiers did not die in pre-prepared defensive positions, but in hastily dug trenches or even on the march. And the loss of aviation is generally a key moment, as a result, German bombers destroyed all supplies and inflicted huge damage even on those units that managed to gain a foothold and did not succumb to tank attacks.
  22. diamond
    0
    27 June 2014 10: 18
    why doesn’t anyone talk about the decision on June 13, 41 in the United States, to help the country to which aggression will be applied. if the USSR attacked Germany, then the United States would have begun to help Germany, even after complete bleeding. and aggression can be perceived, as we know, not only as an attack, but also as provocation by the buildup of forces near the border or by mobilization. therefore, the planes did not take off, but were destroyed at airfields. defensive fortifications were dismantled, full mobilization was not carried out.
  23. 0
    27 June 2014 12: 12
    Quote: diamond
    why doesn’t anyone talk about the decision on June 13, 41 in the United States, to help the country to which aggression will be applied.

    That's great, Stalin was frightened of the United States and almost leaked the country. USA openly helping Hitler. All the Rezuna-whistleblowers there are just resting.
  24. 0
    28 June 2014 21: 06
    Quote: ranger
    Quote: anomalocaris
    Poland. In 1939, it was quite a powerful state with a normal industry and a strong army.


    Relatively strong Polish army - to put it mildly an exaggeration - if we talk about its armament, trained personnel and military talent of the command ... But ordinary soldiers and officers, however, fought as they could. This is not Czechoslovakia with a very developed defense industry and a completely absent desire protect your country.

    Such an army was normal at that time: 39 divisions, 16 separate brigades, only 1 million people. 870 tanks and wedges, 4300 guns and mortars, up to 400 aircraft. And about the Polish government, yes. Moshchitsky dumped September 1, Government 5 and Rydz-Smigly, Commander-in-Chief, crossed the Romanian border (Bender, damn ..) after about two weeks (I don’t remember exactly).
  25. +1
    30 June 2014 16: 56
    Stalin was told 47 times the exact date of the attack on the USSR. Yes, Hitler postponed the start dates of the war, but this was due to the backlog of the rear. They did not have time, and here Hitler endured the dates of the attack.
    1. Past_ Crocodile
      0
      10 August 2014 00: 42
      Of course, Stalin is not to blame for the defeats of the early days. Hitler is guilty of itself and the Partigenigenosses Messerschmitt, Schmeisser and others that joined him
  26. The comment was deleted.

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"