Military Review

How Americans learned the secrets of Russian weapons

126
The collapse of the USSR and the Warsaw Pact at the time greatly facilitated the work of NATO intelligence officers. If, before the collapse of the "social camp", the Soviet military equipment got to a potential enemy, mostly as trophies captured by Israel from Syria and Egypt, it became much easier to get the secrets of the Soviet defense industry in 90. There would be money. As a result, the United States and its allies have at their disposal a mass of Soviet designs. He writes about it Messenger of Mordovia.

How Americans learned the secrets of Russian weapons


A lot of weapons and the West received technology from the reserves of the army of the GDR. The Germans traded him right and left. As a result Tanks T-72M1 were sent to Israel, South Korea and Sweden for research. AND aviation equipment and missile weapons went to the United States.

True, the armies of the Warsaw Pact were armed with equipment made, as a rule, in the export version, which was somewhat inferior to the samples that were directly in the Soviet army. But officials from the former USSR quickly “fixed” the situation. For example, Moldova supplied the United States with a MiG-29 batch. The most advanced samples of military equipment at that time came to the West. Among them were the T-80U, SAU 2C19М, BMP-3, Tunguska, Thor, C-300В and others. By the end of 90-s, Russia finally realized the damage suffered and became more prudent in working with Western countries. Therefore, when the Americans offered to make a deal for the supply of T-90, active protection complexes for Arena armored vehicles and other secret novelties, the Russian side responded with a polite refusal.

But this time the Americans were also rescued by the former Soviet republics, or rather, the republic — Ukraine. It is difficult to find a sample that would not be sold to the United States by Ukrainian dealers. There was no refusal. Want SU-27? You are welcome! Newest T-XNUMHUD? For God's sake! The complex of active protection "Drozd"? No problem, anything else you want?

American intelligence officers were allowed to familiarize themselves with the X-55 cruise missiles, the Tu-160, Tu-22М2, Tu-95MS and М3 bombers, as well as strategic missile systems.

One can only guess how much such openness has cost Russia. Maybe someday all the details will pop up. Here, for example, photographs leaked confirming the test data at the Aberdeen Proving Ground in the US T-72B tanks. American specialists were interested in, first of all, armored car protection. They studied it thoroughly. Fragments from their reports also appeared on the Internet.



It is not known exactly where these tanks came from to America, but something else is clear: to put it mildly, such “cooperation” caused great harm to the defense capability of the Russian state.
126 comments
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  1. herruvim
    herruvim 23 June 2014 18: 54
    +51
    In 90 years, everything was sold and everyone was bought, everyone wanted to live in America, very few remained true to their homeland
    1. poquello
      poquello 23 June 2014 18: 59
      +11
      Quote: herruvim
      In 90 years, everything was sold and everyone was bought, everyone wanted to live in America, very few remained true to their homeland

      the losses are huge but replenished
      1. torkov66
        torkov66 23 June 2014 21: 56
        +9
        On the contrary. Selling scum much less. Their hide is in full view and the damage is enormous to us.
        1. oenaraevskija
          oenaraevskija 24 June 2014 07: 43
          +3
          Only, for some reason, these BAGS walk free. For example Serdyuk and Vasilyeva
      2. 1812 1945
        1812 1945 23 June 2014 22: 34
        +12
        Quote: poquello
        Quote: herruvim
        In 90 years, everything was sold and everyone was bought, everyone wanted to live in America, very few remained true to their homeland

        the losses are huge but replenished

        Replaceable, I hope. But we don’t even know at what cost? “It is not so easy to establish what became the property of enemy intelligence.” And the Day of Russia is better to transfer to the date of the declaration of Crimea by the subject of the Russian Federation. June 12 - the national holiday of the United States - the day of the destruction of Russia, which resulted in everything that was stated in the article.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Vitaly Anisimov
      Vitaly Anisimov 23 June 2014 19: 03
      +11
      Quote: herruvim
      In 90 years, everything was sold and everyone was bought, everyone wanted to live in America, very few remained true to their homeland

      I agree, and yet not all the corrupt ones retained much nevertheless .. Great respect for these people (real patriots of their homeland) .. Russia exists thanks to such people now (only there is no replacement for them in principle) Well, nothing ..
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 23 June 2014 23: 07
        +5
        Quote: MIKHAN
        .Russia exists thanks to those now (that's just there is no replacement for them in principle)

        Vitaliy! Life does not end there. We will be replaced by normal people who love their homeland, who, like us, will keep the country, protect and increase its values.
        1. kori
          kori 24 June 2014 13: 30
          +2
          God grant, God grant! Well, so that they were such, true patriots, we must apply forces. Raise them with values ​​not Western, but ours, relatives, which we keep for centuries. And while there is strength and health, they should make every effort for the good of their homeland and future generations!
          1. Kapac_82
            Kapac_82 24 June 2014 14: 09
            0
            I agree! Traitors have always been, but our people live for thousands of years and will live as long as there is our planet.
        2. perm23
          perm23 24 June 2014 19: 19
          +1
          It would be nice to get them somewhere. Their fathers and mothers sold and traded what they could, taught the children to live in spite of others. Be cooler with the loot, not thinking about how this loot gets. We didn’t steal, we were spinning, we knew how to live. And the kids are like that now. Where to get honest patriots
        3. perm23
          perm23 24 June 2014 19: 19
          0
          It would be nice to get them somewhere. Their fathers and mothers sold and traded what they could, taught the children to live in spite of others. Be cooler with the loot, not thinking about how this loot gets. We didn’t steal, we were spinning, we knew how to live. And the kids are like that now. Where to get honest patriots
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. fox21h
      fox21h 23 June 2014 19: 12
      +36
      I wish I could live to see all these traitors get what they deserve
      1. poquello
        poquello 23 June 2014 19: 31
        +12
        Quote: fox21h
        I wish I could live to see all these traitors get what they deserve

        I have a counter-offer - to reward those who have kept so many secrets in that setting
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Kir
        Kir 23 June 2014 19: 41
        +6
        Well, retaliation often comes to them in the person of their heirs, look how the latter squander the "overworked" property, then how many of them have descended to alcoholism and drug addiction, so ...... for whom they tried, they tried!
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 23 June 2014 23: 12
          +3
          Quote: Kir
          Well, retribution often comes to them in the person of their heirs,

          Truly, as in the Holy Scripture: "the sins of the fathers will fall on the heads of their children." Amen!
      4. zennon
        zennon 23 June 2014 19: 52
        +6
        Quote: fox21h
        I wish I could live to see all these traitors get what they deserve

        Well, you do not live so much ...
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 23 June 2014 23: 48
          +16
          Quote: zennon
          Quote: fox21h
          I wish I could live to see all these traitors get what they deserve
          Well, you do not live so much ...

          To be honest: I have a great desire to find out that Gorbi is seriously ill and his death was painful, like his J. .. And this will be that little bit of justice that the Lord can give our tormented country, fair punishment for hundreds of thousands of ruined fates, for the tragedy of the collapse of the great country. IMHO,
          1. therapist
            therapist 23 June 2014 23: 54
            +1
            Hunchback does not even imagine how likely it is that his native Privolny Stavropol Territory will soon be bombed.
            1. oenaraevskija
              oenaraevskija 24 June 2014 07: 51
              0
              If RUSSIA does not announce "clear sky" - then it is quite possible
          2. The comment was deleted.
            1. ermolai
              ermolai 24 June 2014 04: 31
              +2
              But where does the labeled humpback come from?
              native Privolny Stavropol Territory.
              these creatures only live where they feed, and they don’t have a homeland either, the homeland is where your family lives, and this is the dog where he was tied to a flail there and his bowl with the bones of his compatriots devoured
              1. oenaraevskija
                oenaraevskija 24 June 2014 07: 52
                0
                hit the top 10 with one shot
          3. oenaraevskija
            oenaraevskija 24 June 2014 07: 50
            0
            And Raisa and where ?? Although, I read somewhere that men are always (secretly) controlled by their wives.
            1. Gorbtk
              Gorbtk 24 June 2014 12: 38
              +1
              Yes, there’s not even a tihari ... She led everything. The one tagged in the head has only cockroaches, even a clear phrase cannot be built. Stupidly listing popular words ...
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. WInovikov
        WInovikov 23 June 2014 20: 16
        +9
        Why not return the death penalty to such merchants? And now it’s not too late to do it. And the punishment for treason is no statute of limitations.
        1. therapist
          therapist 23 June 2014 23: 39
          +1
          Life is better than death. Much nicer.
        2. therapist
          therapist 23 June 2014 23: 39
          0
          Life is better than death. Much nicer.
          1. SAXA.SHURA
            SAXA.SHURA 24 June 2014 13: 32
            -1
            Therapist, do you also have squint? If you write twice.
      7. alexdol
        alexdol 23 June 2014 20: 30
        +15
        fox21h SU "How I would like to live up to the time that all these traitors get what they deserve"
        -------------------------------------------------- ---
        I completely agree with you, and I have the same desire! But, I'm already 62 years old and I'm afraid that I won't see this anymore, but how I would like to see the perpetrators of the collapse of the USSR on the bench: KRAVCHUK, GORBACHEV - they are still alive! And instead of this "mister" Medvedev, while still the president of RUSSIA, managed to present this GA-DU Gorby with the Order of St. Andrew the First-Called in honor of the 80th anniversary !? There were attempts, even demands, to take this order from him, but ...
        1. bootlegger
          bootlegger 23 June 2014 21: 40
          +10
          There was, the other day, an interview with Gorbachev. Pimenov organized.
          Nothing changed!
          As fool Misha was, he stayed, only became old. Pel, as usual, incoherent nonsense that he was not inferior to the United States, but very aggressively negotiated.
          They didn’t say anything about the collapse of the USSR; they probably took care of the nerves of the old idiot ...
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 23 June 2014 23: 47
          +5
          these freaks need to be judged FOR THE CHANGE OF THE MOTHERLAND ... in public ... well, and what to take with Medvedev? boy with an iPhone, damn it
          1. Korablev
            Korablev 24 June 2014 00: 48
            +2
            Take away the iPhone as a punishment ...
      8. hooligan
        hooligan 24 June 2014 00: 14
        +4
        what? The hunchbacked main traitor! ate his face in a telly does not fit. am lives in Bavaria and is not steamed. creature!
    6. Paradoxov
      Paradoxov 23 June 2014 19: 16
      +6
      Quote: herruvim
      everyone wanted to live in America

      And not only how ...
      Brains must be returned back, and conditions must be created accordingly, one naked patriotism is a weak argument!
    7. velikoros-xnumx
      velikoros-xnumx 23 June 2014 20: 02
      +6
      There were only a few true patriots, according to a very plausible version, the ferry "Estonia" was flooded with such in order to prevent the ingress of design documentation and the latest products of the Soviet military-industrial complex, which were loaded onto the ferry.
    8. Vadivak
      Vadivak 23 June 2014 20: 28
      +7
      Quote: ...
      Here, for example, photographs leaked confirming data on the test of T-72B tanks at the Aberdeen Proving Ground in the United States.

      Also me a Newton binom
      Since 1987, Uralvagonzavod began to produce an export version of the T-72B - T-72S tank. On February 15, 2001, a contract was signed for the supply of T-90C tanks to India and the transfer of a license for their production.

      Since 1981, the production of T-72 tanks, and then T-72M and T-72M1 was carried out in Czechoslovakia, and since 1982 in Poland. TO
      Copies of the T-72 tank are produced in China (Tour 98), Iran (Zulfikar) and Pakistan (Al Khalid).
    9. Sterlya
      Sterlya 23 June 2014 23: 33
      +7
      Humpbacked with EBN are to blame for everything. God forbid Russia once again such raccoons ..
    10. oenaraevskija
      oenaraevskija 24 June 2014 07: 42
      0
      RIGHTS. !! These scum traitors shoot a little. Alone 1 * 2 meters - until they die
    11. kodxnumx
      kodxnumx 24 June 2014 08: 26
      0
      It’s still not clear with the documentation for the rocket Satan. Whether or not ours succeeded in removing them from the design bureaus of Ukraine. There are a lot of questions not only the USA, NATO, but also CHINA. We are ready to pay for these documents and drawings, after the collapse of the empire some problems for the military-industrial complex RUSSIA, our brothers, so to speak, bring, I hope the new weapons of RUSSIA are much better in terms of performance characteristics of NATO countries and the USA,
    12. Sasspy
      Sasspy 24 June 2014 12: 10
      0
      Capitalism for Russia is not acceptable !!! Anyway, and now there are traders = for candy wrappers and c500 will be sold
      1. Avalon
        Avalon 24 June 2014 17: 21
        +1
        Now besides the traders, there is no one, only a few produce something. The overwhelming majority are looking for how to sell at a higher price what they bought at a lower price. Check out the Discovery Channel - Relic Hunters, Warehouse Hunters, Gold Rush - BUY SELL CULT! And everything is seasoned with scientific and educational programs about European / American technologies to show what you can spend the earned money on.
  2. Andrenaline
    Andrenaline 23 June 2014 18: 55
    +2
    Oh Russian soul wide open. Now we are reaping the benefits ...
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 23 June 2014 19: 07
      +6
      Americans will certainly benefit from this ... but I think Russia didn’t do it with a finger ... and also learned something about the samples of their weapons from the Iraqi and Yugoslav conflicts, otherwise we would still think that the F117 is really not a downed aircraft, but abrams tank of all time ... of course it's insulting and annoying ... but in any case, these secrets would sooner or later be revealed by amers ... but what has been done is done ... those who sold and handed over their people will not envy and I believe that these Judas will be punished and God grant in the near future
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 23 June 2014 19: 51
        +7
        http://youinf.ru/f18_post/ вот ссылка на интересный отрывок из фильма "в тылу врага"...бой Российской ракеты с ф18...интересно выкатились глаза у пилота belayhttp://youinf.ru/best_raketa_ru/а это видео про нашу новую самую скоростную противоракету в мире fellow
        1. Olkass
          Olkass 23 June 2014 21: 32
          +2
          this video is about our new fastest missile defense in the world
          They surprised the hedgehog with a holopop. The system was tested while I was serving in the Hungry Steppe in 1987-1989. If I’m not mistaken, it must have another unique ability (feature?) - to distinguish false targets (warheads) from real nuclear ones, and intercept them at the end point of the trajectory (after the separation of the ICBM warhead).
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 23 June 2014 21: 37
            +4
            so I'm talking about pride) because a good machine)
            1. Olkass
              Olkass 23 June 2014 22: 07
              +1
              Pride is good! Only, unfortunately, we are still mostly traveling due to the backlog of scientific and technological progress of the former Union.
              The only thing that inspires hope is that the helmsmen and the oligarchy have got (does it come to?) That no matter how cool the larders are, if there is no strong STATE with a united, capable population behind them, they are NOBODY!
              Therefore, they are trying to replace everything that they have managed to screw up in human capital with BABLO. It will bear fruit, but it will take at least 10 years for it to bear fruit. Provided that instead of top-vip-oral-anal-managers, technocrats-statesmen will deal with this and manage the processes. And the above-mentioned top VIP ... as in that movie: "We love power - if only we live to our heart's content ..."
            2. The comment was deleted.
          2. Wedmak
            Wedmak 23 June 2014 21: 45
            +1
            to distinguish between false targets (warheads) and indeed nuclear

            Shouldn't the radar deal with this? And such a fragile thing, like a radar antenna, can hardly be thrust into a rocket starting with a 100G overload.
            1. Olkass
              Olkass 23 June 2014 22: 12
              0
              This is already, I think, not our business with you.
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 24 June 2014 00: 54
              +3
              Denis, you are absolutely right. The rocket here is the vehicle for delivering the SBP to the calculated meeting point. The charge selects all aiming errors. Then the rocket of the second echelon worked. Selection according to a number of signs both in the first and in the second case was made by "Don". About overloads. The longitudinal one reached 200g.
          3. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 24 June 2014 00: 32
            +2
            Quote: Olkass
            it should have one more unique ability (feature?) - to distinguish between false targets (warheads) and indeed nuclear ones, and intercept them at the end point of the trajectory (after separation of the head part of the ICBMs).

            If we are talking about A-135 (and we didn’t have another one), then you are mistaken: the SBP (head part) did not need to figure out where anything - all the VYAV was swept away. At the same time, a charge of carrots was initiated, so if a breakthrough broke, a blank would land.
        2. The comment was deleted.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 23 June 2014 20: 56
        +2
        Quote: rereture
        .............................. deleted by moderator Apollo

        Mr. moderators ay !! If this post is not a manifestation of anti-Semitism, then what is anti-Semitism?
    3. Irokez
      Irokez 23 June 2014 21: 21
      +3
      Quote: Andrenaline
      Oh Russian soul wide open. Now we are reaping the benefits.

      Come on, let’s use it now. We’ll think of us for the first time in the world to surprise and set the tone for the world's best-selling weapons (one Kalash costs).
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 24 June 2014 01: 01
        +2
        Quote: Irokez
        Let us use, we’ll come up with
        The fact of the matter is that they cannot use them. Americans cannot split the S-300 GSN algorithm, and tangerines cannot create Su-30 blade technology. So there is iron, but no sense.
        1. Basarev
          Basarev 24 June 2014 18: 49
          0
          What is generally good for us. The appearance should be copied as much as they want. And the salt itself remains ours. Yes, and all the time being improved.
  3. Ramzaj99
    Ramzaj99 23 June 2014 18: 56
    +1
    Myshkin’s tears will pour out to a cat ......
  4. tchoni
    tchoni 23 June 2014 18: 59
    +7
    such, to put it mildly, “cooperation” has done great harm to the defense capabilities of the Russian state.
    The same thing was discovered to me, America, 10 years later.
  5. Shkodnik65
    Shkodnik65 23 June 2014 19: 00
    +9
    The profession of Judah has been popular since Old Testament times. One soul warms - we all know THAT Judas finished. If only the lives of Russian boys did not have to pay for 30 pieces of silver ...
  6. Giant thought
    Giant thought 23 June 2014 19: 01
    +7
    Unfortunately, they sold not only weapons, but also their homeland. Apparently, Russia had to go through this, so that later it would not happen again.
    1. Irokez
      Irokez 23 June 2014 21: 27
      +2
      Quote: Thought Giant
      Apparently, Russia had to go through this, so that later it would not happen again.

      At the beginning of the last century, Russia sold its Orthodox tsar, now there is a cleansing from this sin and, having purified itself, will again be raised above the earth as the Slavic Falcon. Judge for yourself how much we have suffered over the past 100 years. And nevertheless, not all of them, of course, but the majority of the people, others have no such concept at all, have preserved the faith and the unwritten law of life.
  7. evilrussian
    evilrussian 23 June 2014 19: 02
    +3
    A lot of things have been sold and given away. But much remains. And we have a lot to create in order to keep up with the West in the future. A lot, a lot of work awaits us
  8. Fedya
    Fedya 23 June 2014 19: 03
    +1
    In skillful hands and pencil weapons! But this is unlikely to help the woman.
  9. Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 23 June 2014 19: 04
    +15
    How? How? It's very simple ... With such "brothers" no enemies are needed:
    The Pentagon acquired from the Ukrainian Air Force two Russian-made Su-27 fighters. The US Air Force will use airplanes to work out effective countermeasures. Russian fighter jets posed a serious problem for the F-15 USA, which “Dryers” several times during the exercises demonstratively “wiped their nose”. The Pentagon has long been trying to get the existing models, and Ukraine helped to do this legally.
    The US military Internet portal www.strategypage.com reported on the deal with the Ukrainian Air Force, reports New Region. According to the resource, according to its characteristics, the Su-27 is similar to the F-15 fighter, but at the same time it is cheaper than its American competitor by more than 30%.
    The US military is also worried about the growing number of sales of Su-27 and Su-30 around the world. Over the past few years, Russia has delivered Su-27 / 30 family fighters to India, China, Malaysia, Venezuela, Indonesia and Algeria, where they formed the basis of the national Air Force. According to izdaniya, the US military intelligence was tasked with obtaining samples of "Dryers." But the operation to hijack the Su-27 by a “deserter”, asking the United States for political asylum, in our time would have seemed too implausible, and would have cost a little. Friends of America surrounded by the Ukrainian president helped solve the problem on the cheap. Now the US military command has the opportunity with the help of these fighters to prepare and train their pilots to effectively counteract "drying" in the air.



    At the same time, do not forget who sold the prototype T-10K-3 to the Soviet carrier-based Su-33 fighter, which became the Chinese J-15 carrier-based fighter ...

    I can give examples of the sea, there’s just not enough space ...
  10. roman72-452
    roman72-452 23 June 2014 19: 05
    +18
    The whole story of the collapse of the USSR is a story of great betrayal.
    1. Hypocrite
      Hypocrite 23 June 2014 22: 36
      +2
      On the other side, too. Here in the archive the publication is semi-fantastic about one pilot who planted BlackBird with us.
      But we have more betrayals.
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. Makyr
    Makyr 23 June 2014 19: 06
    +5
    So what? Well, did you get the technique, studied it and immediately received the "great secret of Kibalchish"?
    Yes, even though a division in the USA can be set up, all the same they cannot produce anything like that within 10-30 years, because there is a word - production technology.
    As an example - how many years have passed since the beginning of the 90s - twenty, and at least something like Soviet technology appeared in the West? No.
    1. rereture
      rereture 23 June 2014 19: 13
      +10
      And why do this? Explore and develop countermeasures.
      1. Makyr
        Makyr 23 June 2014 20: 19
        +1
        Countermeasures are always effective only to static. How many upgrades have passed in 20 years?
        1. rereture
          rereture 24 June 2014 04: 30
          0
          If you study the device well enough, then you can predict with a fairly good probability which way the modernization will go. And since several modernization paths are usually possible, countermeasures include all the foreseen modernization paths, but as you know, it is not possible to foresee everything.
      2. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 24 June 2014 01: 24
        +3
        Quote: rereture
        Explore and develop countermeasures.

        You're right. We studied the S-300 and banned the F-22 from leaving the United States. There was a message about the production of the S-400, and the US Congress decided to discontinue production of the Raptor and switch to the cheaper F-35. I learned about this myself recently, from the springs ... "mineral water".
  13. Vasek
    Vasek 23 June 2014 19: 07
    +6
    It all started with how stupid the technique was divided ...
    Well, why, for example, Moldova (Republic of 350km X 100km) - MiG-29?
    He does not have enough airy sovereign Moldavian space to even gain height!
    And then we are surprised that the "evil Moldovans" sold them.
    1. Aljavad
      Aljavad 23 June 2014 23: 08
      +2
      We shared "all the sisters by earrings". Like a share in an inheritance. Though they didn’t share the bonbu .... They don’t cry after losing their heads in their hair.
  14. Stypor23
    Stypor23 23 June 2014 19: 09
    +9
    But what not to sell. Stepanych sold weapons-grade uranium and was buried under fireworks; ebn handed out minerals to the West in honor of his institute called; Gaidar fooled the whole country, he put a bust in the center of Moscow.
    1. Olkass
      Olkass 23 June 2014 21: 51
      +5
      But do not touch Stepanich. Thanks to Stepanych, the US has actually ruined its industry. And not only nuclear defense, but also civilian. Journalistic-informative reference for the development of horizons: http://vg-news.ru/news/20120241074.html. By the way, somewhere in the vast walks and video posting of these materials.
      Yes, and also, thanks to Rem Vyakhirev and Chernomyrdin, we have the current Gazprom, not Naftogaz and GTS Nezalezhnaya. Broaden your horizons, dear, not only through the yellow press.
    2. Olkass
      Olkass 23 June 2014 21: 51
      0
      But do not touch Stepanich. Thanks to Stepanych, the US has actually ruined its industry. And not only nuclear defense, but also civilian. Journalistic-informative reference for the development of horizons: http://vg-news.ru/news/20120241074.html. By the way, somewhere in the vast walks and video posting of these materials.
      Yes, and also, thanks to Rem Vyakhirev and Chernomyrdin, we have the current Gazprom, not Naftogaz and GTS Nezalezhnaya. Broaden your horizons, dear, not only through the yellow press.
      1. Stypor23
        Stypor23 23 June 2014 22: 13
        0
        And who is he, the author of this article? Where is the bending of the industry, if every year atomic aircraft carriers launch it into the water. And probably 2 times the atomic bomb will be used. I look at the branches of a lot of fans sitting 90s state officials. He gave grandmas for this deal to the country, right? I don’t give a shit about Gazprom, it’s getting richer to the point of madness, but they haven’t seen gas in my village, dear.
        1. Olkass
          Olkass 23 June 2014 22: 58
          0
          Why so evil? All the women fall in love - a mess of the world? This is a clinic, dear! laughing
          Regarding the supply of gas to the population of their own country - I agree with you by 1000%.
          But if you’ve even been eaten, do you still have two ways out ?!
          Well, didn’t you consider this option? http://nnov.bonegaz.ru/price/. This is for example in our Lower one of the desks.
          In general, the men at my work, who is being built, looked, calculated — they say that it would be more profitable than central gas, if you also use a multi-fuel stove. Expensive, of course, but it seems like in 5 years this option pays for itself.
          So, as my friend used to say, the tits will grow and life will get better! drinks
          1. Stypor23
            Stypor23 23 June 2014 23: 18
            0
            What a cheerful guy you are. It’s not good that I just turned to you like that. I hear something about Nizhny Novgorod, so I remember the Germans fighting right away. You probably think of him as a strong statesman.
  15. andrei332809
    andrei332809 23 June 2014 19: 10
    +1
    of course, anger and shame ... but ... they must be gifted with scrap, they will be able to do it, then yes, they will be able to
  16. Svyatoruss
    Svyatoruss 23 June 2014 19: 16
    0
    T-90 exhibition in Nizhny Tagil
    1. TiGRoO
      TiGRoO 23 June 2014 19: 39
      +1
      This is the t-72 for war in urban conditions, to potential buyers of the Syrians)))
  17. Juborg
    Juborg 23 June 2014 19: 17
    +7
    The most terrible enemy and traitor to Russia is dill; it was, is and will be, from the entire Slavic world, the most vile enemy, always striking in the back. And about technical secrets, they were stolen, they are stealing and will be stealing, such is the dialectic of the world. Such a freebie presented itself and we did not disdain to take it (like the same "Abrams")
    1. rereture
      rereture 23 June 2014 19: 27
      0
      It seems that our leadership was in contact with the leadership of Afghanistan on this topic. It seems to be about the intention to create "service stations" where our specialists should be engaged in the maintenance of abandoned equipment.
    2. Sergei75
      Sergei75 23 June 2014 19: 40
      +4
      The most terrible enemy is a traitor pretending to be a friend, the people of Ukraine have no reason to do this, we have enough shit ourselves and the worst thing is when they are at the helm of power.
  18. Iline
    Iline 23 June 2014 19: 20
    +7
    American intelligence officers were allowed to familiarize themselves with the X-55 cruise missiles, the Tu-160, Tu-22М2, Tu-95MS and М3 bombers, as well as strategic missile systems.
    In 1999-2000 squeezed Tu-95MS and Tu-160 from Ukraine for gas debts. In parallel with us, the bases for cutting this equipment, sponsored by the Americans, worked intensively. And if in Uzin they managed to intercept the aircraft of the last series, then in Priluki there are no Tu-160s.
    So that's it. According to the contract, we had to pick up all X-55 missiles for these aircraft, and according to Ukrainian documents, we took them all. And this year I read an article with photographs about how China, using samples received from Ukraine, created "its own" air-launched cruise missile. There are no differences, licked at 0. I don't know, the truth about the filling. but there would be a sample.
    1. Aljavad
      Aljavad 23 June 2014 23: 13
      +1
      2011 "HBO" 23.12/XNUMX.
      Sergey Goncharov
      Adventures of Subsonic Winged Missiles in Non-Climbing
      The mystery of the missing from Ukraine nuclear warheads is still not disclosed, but the fact of the loss is recognized


      (...) The fact is that after more than 15 years from the moment of the complete withdrawal of nuclear weapons from Ukraine (and this happened on the night of 2.06.1996), the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine did not bother to precisely inform how much it was taken out ?
      Comes to funny. It is known that the ground-based strategic nuclear group on the territory of Ukraine numbered 1.240 warheads. More in the warheads of 130 ICBMs UR-100N UTTH (RS-18, according to NATO classification - SS-19 Stilleto) and 46 ICBMs RT-23UTTX (RS-22, according to NATO classification - SS-24 Scalpel) physically could not be . But at the same time, up to the end of 2001, the national Ministry of Defense was reporting on the "over 1.600" such warheads, and in 2002-10, on 1.272 units!
      (,,,)
      1. therapist
        therapist 23 June 2014 23: 52
        0
        UR 100N I taught. Super racket. Relay truth. But very reliable.
  19. Juveviktor
    Juveviktor 23 June 2014 19: 21
    +1
    Quote: fox21h
    I wish I could live to see all these traitors get what they deserve

    Here I agree with you
  20. PATRIOT 13
    PATRIOT 13 23 June 2014 19: 22
    0
    okay in the 90s .. it’s clear .. there was expanse of scum..And NOW THAT ??? WHY DO NOT SHOOT CERDYUK TO THE TIME ?? WHY ROCKETS EXPLODE ON TAKEOFF, AIRPLANES DROP ?? WHEN WILL IT FINALLY BE PUBLICALLY PUNISHED FOR THIS ????
    1. Makyr
      Makyr 23 June 2014 20: 28
      +6
      Patriot,
      public hysteria is not a manifestation of patriotism.
      Do you offer to execute on the world? Come on! The plane crashed - the entire assembly shop under the ax, the rocket crashed - shoot all the personnel of allied plants!
      Then it’s sure that neither the rocket will fall, not a single plane will crash. Because they simply will not be.
      There is such a science - the theory of catastrophes, the probability of a catastrophe is initially laid in each designed system, and the more elaborate the design, the lower the probability of a catastrophe. This is characteristic only of obsolete moral systems.
      Are you pulling us into the stone age?
    2. Aljavad
      Aljavad 23 June 2014 23: 19
      +1
      WHY ROCKETS EXPLODE ON TAKEOFF,


      The widely disseminated footage of the fall of the "Proton" is certainly shocking. But for almost 50 years of launches, Proton still has very good statistics. Reliable car!
      Makir is right: set aside a tantrum!
      1. therapist
        therapist 23 June 2014 23: 58
        +1
        At Proton, the third stage has blown up. The last stages have always been unreliable. For them, even the engines were made under reduced pressure so that they would not explode. And all the same, accidents. And if there is a sabotage, they will never know the reason. Very high.
  21. roman72-452
    roman72-452 23 June 2014 19: 27
    +2
    Quote: juborg
    The most terrible enemy and traitor of Russia is dill, there have been, are and will be, of the whole Slavic world, the most vile enemy, always beating in the back.

    Another Soviet-era joke: Two Ukrainians partisan detachment, three-partisan detachment with a traitor.
  22. SHOCK.
    SHOCK. 23 June 2014 19: 28
    +5
    What to blame for Ukraine? There were figures themselves who traded right and left. And by the way they live and live until now. But the greatest thanks for all this bacchanalia should be said to EBNu of course. Sitting tight on a glass, I did not care at all, but the environment tried my best.
    1. Dym71
      Dym71 23 June 2014 20: 14
      +1
      I still feel ashamed when I look at this recording. Shame !!!
  23. Comintern
    Comintern 23 June 2014 19: 31
    +2
    Dill are creepy people, if you can call them that forever not happy and who think that they all should, and if necessary, be sure to substitute such a strong hohlama
  24. Sergei75
    Sergei75 23 June 2014 19: 34
    +6
    Did the governor serve Ukraine? What do you think, and why did the Americans become so brave?
    Vague doubts torment me ...
    And yet, someone still has questions — why should all the components and technologies of our weapons be domestic?
  25. Stypor23
    Stypor23 23 June 2014 19: 36
    +2
    Quote: Iline
    American intelligence officers were allowed to familiarize themselves with the X-55 cruise missiles, the Tu-160, Tu-22М2, Tu-95MS and М3 bombers, as well as strategic missile systems.
    In 1999-2000 squeezed Tu-95MS and Tu-160 from Ukraine for gas debts. In parallel with us, the bases for cutting this equipment, sponsored by the Americans, worked intensively. And if in Uzin they managed to intercept the aircraft of the last series, then in Priluki there are no Tu-160s.
    So that's it. According to the contract, we had to pick up all X-55 missiles for these aircraft, and according to Ukrainian documents, we took them all. And this year I read an article with photographs about how China, using samples received from Ukraine, created "its own" air-launched cruise missile. There are no differences, licked at 0. I don't know, the truth about the filling. but there would be a sample.

    Let's remember how the United States and Japan gave money for the dismantlement of nuclear submarines. And hell
    namely those boats that posed the greatest danger to them, and the ships that had exhausted their life still rot at the piers. They shouted syki that they were worried about the environment. Surely they HOPE that this junk of Russia’s exploitation will come to an end.
  26. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 23 June 2014 19: 36
    +3
    Yes, there were a lot of their bastards, like fists who sold right and left technologies for manufacturing armored vehicles, S-300 complexes, etc. So not only our friends in the socialist camp and the CIS betrayed us. Already for these secrets, I should thank Russia for being grateful. But no, the bastards are bastards. And then we turned to them with all our souls and bodies, how does the Yankees have democracy, draw the ability to live from them .... What will you do now, we must again start rolling up our sleeves. Only here in our country their bastards appear like Kuchma and Kravchuk, ready to sell us in giblets. And with these bastards still have to fight ....
  27. sazhka4
    sazhka4 23 June 2014 19: 39
    +2
    As soon as it comes to Soviet technology and its "secrets". An anecdote about a file immediately comes to mind .. By and large, the Chinese are the best, at the moment "copywriters". Both the Americans and the Chinese, having a finished product in their hands, can only repeat the shape. Actually, everyone knows what should be
    plane, machine gun or tank. How and from what to do it, here's the question ..
  28. Beccer
    Beccer 23 June 2014 19: 40
    +2
    Yes, of course this is all clear, well, they licked or licked our technologies, made conclusions, etc., etc., but the main secret of our person is the strength of spirit, its unpredictability, and the ability to improvise along the way. And this is not how America can buy, steal or trade. Therefore, this does not soar me much, besides, time goes on, technology changes, mother Russia grows stronger!
  29. Wedmak
    Wedmak 23 June 2014 19: 41
    +5
    Well, it's kinda no secret for a long time. So many weapons of the USSR have gone overseas that you can make an assault division with an air defense cover from them. But has something changed?
    Their latest F-117A, shot down by an ancient Soviet missile only because the pilots spat on the tactics of use and forgot about changing flight routes.
    Their anti-radar missiles were fooled by simple microwaves - where are their findings on the inspection of the S-300 and other anti-aircraft systems?
    Their vaunted Raptor still flies around our radars for 600 miles and does not take part in hostilities if at least some opposition awaits him. I am generally silent about the F-35 - this is a trough full of electronics, afraid of even high humidity.
    By the way, something has not been heard for a long time advertising of the vaunted "Patriot".
    Abrams are still burning from being hit from RPG-7 ... The vaunted uranium armor holds only in the forehead, but only who will trample on the forehead?
    There is still no analogue to our MANPADS and ATGMs !!! There are some "fools" in several tens of kilograms and the dimensions of an elephant. And the cost of a brand new Hummer.
    What can we say about anti-aircraft systems ...
    And you know what conclusion ... Americans are really stupid. Having received so many samples of our weapons, they had to create a serious opposition to everyone! Created as usual, dear wunderwaffe, not applicable in the fight against an equal opponent. But on the weak - it's super. And the advertisement is not bad.
  30. Valter1364
    Valter1364 23 June 2014 19: 41
    +5
    I remembered the story of our missile-torpedo technology which the Americans had been chasing for a long time. A familiar employee of Rosoboronexport spoke in the late 90s. At the time of Judas Andryusha Kozyrev, an agreement was signed for the supply of a sample under the guise of an exhibition copy. The cost of the contract was about 5 million green rubles. Even the prepayment came about 1 lemon. The funny thing is that the first container sent to the recipient several tons of river sand, which allegedly was included in the exhibition sample. After Kozyrev left, the delivery was canceled. So, according to the stories of military experts, the mattress covers received five tons of Russian river sand at a price of one million US dollars. laughing
    1. Aljavad
      Aljavad 23 June 2014 23: 28
      +2
      five tons of river Russian sand at a price of one million dollars

      I laugh and applaud!
      1. sazhka4
        sazhka4 24 June 2014 08: 08
        0
        Quote: Aljavad
        five tons of river Russian sand at a price of one million dollars

        I laugh and applaud!

        I see no reason .. Ordinary "hap-hating"
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. NBN
    NBN 23 June 2014 19: 45
    +1
    Quote: Macyr
    So what? Well, did you get the technique, studied it and immediately received the "great secret of Kibalchish"?
    Yes, even though a division in the USA can be set up, all the same they cannot produce anything like that within 10-30 years, because there is a word - production technology.
    As an example - how many years have passed since the beginning of the 90s - twenty, and at least something like Soviet technology appeared in the West? No.

    Technology say. Now remember the privatization, including defense industry enterprises. Who conducted it? Right, Mr. Chubais. And who were his advisers? That's right, the current CIA officers. I read that in dashing years our entire factory was taken to the states with part of the staff who were involved in Stealth technology, and weapons-grade uranium and plutonium, which we stupidly took away from us, were like a trifle from a schoolboy ... What a betrayal if a CIA officer shares our secrets and wealth: what is to them and what is to us. Only business ... I heard that 4 of these CIA-officers were later convicted in the States - a lot of things stuck to their hands, not all were given to the owner.
    1. Makyr
      Makyr 23 June 2014 20: 54
      +4
      Quote: NBN
      . I read that in dashing years our entire factory was taken to the states with a part of the staff who was involved in Stealth technology
      What plant was taken out with the staff)))

      Quote: NBN
      weapons-grade uranium and plutonium, which we stupidly took away, like a trifle from a schoolboy
      Sold in a low enriched 1,5% form. They didn’t take it away, but paid $ 17 billion, which saved the Russian nuclear industry.
      What suits you more: 20 thousand. the excess nuclear materials lying in the warehouses and the dead nuclear industry or the advanced nuclear industry of Russia (which it is now) with the absence of nuclear ballast?
      http://solo122.clan.su/publ/demobilizovalnyj_u_235/9-1-0-393

      Quote: NBN
      remember privatization, including defense industry enterprises
      I remembered. Produced and processed three types of absolutely identical tank capabilities - T-64, T-80, T-72. Was it so necessary? Or to have in the division two artillery caliber 122mm and 152mm, performing the same tasks? This is offhand.

      So what you wanted to say, I still do not understand?
      1. Aljavad
        Aljavad 23 June 2014 23: 34
        0
        which plant was taken out with staff

        They wrote, it was, about one uncle - "crazy professor"
        (well, like, he's worth a whole plant) wassat

        and they also wrote that our expertise considered "stealth" to be a dead-end branch and sent the guy to the states as a specialist for misinformation.
        From there and the "flying iron"
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 24 June 2014 02: 39
          +1
          Quote: Aljavad
          They wrote, it was, about one uncle - "crazy professor"

          Are you talking about Ufimtsev Peter Yakovlevich, or what? So he rounded up back to Russia and created a theory of diversity reception-radiation for Stealth detection. So the form is not the main thing in this matter.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 24 June 2014 02: 20
      +2
      Quote: NBN
      4-x these CIA-officers were later convicted in the States - a lot of it stuck to their hands, not all were given to the owner

      These gentlemen were of Jewish faith. The temptation was too great, and they could not resist, succumbed to the temptation, forgetting that in the service of the CIA can not do business.
      Management correctly judged: they could outbid. After all, Iskariot is their tribe.
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. The comment was deleted.
  35. Ivan Tarasov
    Ivan Tarasov 23 June 2014 19: 53
    0
    Among other things, there was also the Yak-141, access to the drawings of which were obtained by the Colorado.
    They copied the concept, built the F-35 and still can’t bring it to mind, more than a dozen billion have swelled, there is little sense.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 24 June 2014 02: 45
      +3
      Quote: Ivan Tarasov
      access to the drawings which received the Colorado.
      Wan! Colorado dill called ours from the south-east of Ukraine for the color of St. George ribbons. It’s time to already know that.
      1. Ivan Tarasov
        Ivan Tarasov 24 June 2014 05: 11
        0
        Quote: BoA KAA
        Quote: Ivan Tarasov
        access to the drawings which received the Colorado.
        Wan! Colorado dill called ours from the south-east of Ukraine for the color of St. George ribbons. It’s time to already know that.

        It is called from a sick head to a healthy one.
        Colorado are Americans, they have a staff with that name, and beetles are in line with the spirit of the American imperialists.
        It’s time to know that.
  36. Skif83
    Skif83 23 June 2014 19: 54
    +2
    Well, Ukrainians have always been corrupt, that they have to sell military secrets, that Russia as a whole, is the same for Russians.
  37. valentina-makanalina
    valentina-makanalina 23 June 2014 19: 54
    +2
    Arms trade is, of course, a profitable business. But not everything is for sale. There must be limitations. You can sell what we ourselves already have in abundance and that cannot be quickly duplicated by others in production. The Greek Fire is still a mystery.
  38. region46
    region46 23 June 2014 19: 54
    +3
    everything has + and -. Remember the stolen Mig-25, after that I had to create the Mig-31, which to this day is one of the best
    1. Makyr
      Makyr 23 June 2014 20: 56
      +4
      After the MIG-25, the identification system had to be changed, and the MIG-31 is a machine of a completely different generation.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 24 June 2014 02: 50
      +1
      Quote: region46
      Remember the stolen Mig-25, after that I had to
      to create anew the system of identification "friend or foe". And it cost us 10 billion rubles, those, not these, wooden ones. So V. Belenko caused enormous damage to the country.
  39. sv68
    sv68 23 June 2014 19: 57
    +2
    therefore, we need the death penalty - you have to pay for everything in the world, including for such attacks. so that any Judah always knows, betrayed the country and sold secret products, you’re already dead.
  40. X Y Z
    X Y Z 23 June 2014 19: 57
    +2
    No whining! It is better to take a set of measures that will make this impossible at least in the future. And tighten the punishment.
  41. avia1991
    avia1991 23 June 2014 19: 58
    +2
    What is described tells about the period when all this was pronounced and in plain sight. Then just no one considered it necessary to be shy: "Grab it while you can, otherwise someone else will grab it!"
    You can remember what our generals did when the troops were withdrawn from the GDR! There, indeed, EVERYTHING was on sale! And then they were written off as "irrecoverable losses," after having generously shared it with the higher authorities ..
    So it’s not worth nodding at Ukraine alone — we had enough of our Judas.
    What's the worst thing is that the current generation of young military men grew up on other priorities, far from patriotism .. What kind of officers and generals, what kind of scientists and designers of secret design bureaus will they become? It will be good if the traditions of loyalty to Duty and Oath will revive, just as Russia will begin to revive. Otherwise, we will "suddenly" discover that our next secret has become known to someone.
  42. Uzer 13.
    Uzer 13. 23 June 2014 20: 06
    +2
    The Americans, by hook or by crook, have obtained samples of Soviet weapons since the wars in Korea and Vietnam, and studied them in the most careful way. You cannot blame them for this, on the contrary, their professional approach to studying the technology of a potential enemy should serve as an example for everyone. "fraternal" republics, which not only actively sold Soviet military equipment, but also tried to combine this process with inflicting the greatest damage on Russia. But even they are far from what the Ukrainian "brothers" did, who, with no effort, easily surrendered not only technical, but also state secrets. And at the same time, there are still calls to establish joint production of components of strategic weapons with Ukrainian enterprises. I can once again suggest that the competent authorities pay close attention to the authors of such proposals.
  43. Nitarius
    Nitarius 23 June 2014 20: 09
    +2
    damn ... FINISH THE SALE OF "friends" - operating MACHINES!
    and the TRADER - TO THE WALL and BASTA! an accident in SUCH matters is only a joy!
    1. bpyotr
      bpyotr 23 June 2014 20: 32
      0
      You want to deprive of such a business. There is nothing for Yanukovych to do: the thing smells not of gold, but of inlaid diamonds and toilets. And someone will refuse such a charm.
  44. Strashila
    Strashila 23 June 2014 20: 14
    +1
    "How ???", and how many of our high-ranking officials and retired generals received citizenship abroad on the very first application after retiring ... for beautiful eyes, how many families live abroad and do not live in poverty.
  45. varela
    varela 23 June 2014 20: 15
    +2
    Alas, our "eagles" have tried no less than the former fraternal republics.
    And the army authorities, and bureaucrats are fattened.
    Tanks drove tanks under the guise of scrap metal, aircraft and artillery.
    Many episodes were in the 90s, something surfaced.
    But alas, if anyone was imprisoned for that, it was only the "switchmen" and the lower ranks.
    Big stars and ranks as always remained in the shade and chocolate.
  46. zone44
    zone44 23 June 2014 20: 23
    +2
    These are the pies ... with Uranus

    1. rereture
      rereture 24 June 2014 04: 33
      0
      But on the other hand, this allowed us to preserve and develop our nuclear industry, which is considered the best in the world, especially in matters of nuclear waste disposal and processing.
  47. Putnik960
    Putnik960 23 June 2014 20: 54
    +1
    All the same, any iron is iron, without a trained crew. Remember, for a whole decade they did not shoot and did not fly. Only in recent years, training has been going on, and there will have to be retrained there.
    1. fomich1977
      fomich1977 23 June 2014 22: 54
      +1
      I agree that without qualified personnel, this is also iron that is dangerous to ourselves. Here I personally, when I served in the army (FAPSI 1995-1997), fired blank cartridges at the funerals of WWII veterans and the military most of all. little. Now it seems like the situation with combat training has changed. recently I was at the training camp and got into my hometown - changes for the better are obvious. and it pleases!)
  48. Alexstalker
    Alexstalker 23 June 2014 21: 00
    +1
    Quote: herruvim
    In 90 years, everything was sold and everyone was bought, everyone wanted to live in America, very few remained true to their homeland

    Especially Pasha Mercedes with Bespaly
  49. jovanni
    jovanni 23 June 2014 21: 01
    +2
    And what is remarkable, not a single traitor was punished !!! All these Chubais work on for the benefit of the overseas uncle.
  50. Alexstalker
    Alexstalker 23 June 2014 21: 09
    +3
    Quote: Jovanni
    And what is remarkable, not a single traitor was punished !!! All these Chubais work on for the benefit of the overseas uncle.

    List you !? Serdyukov, Chubais (Nanist), and let's go ... let's go. And the Bridge across the Kerch Strait ... from the beginning 100 billion and further at times ... more expensive than the tunnel through the Lamansh
    1. avia1991
      avia1991 23 June 2014 22: 48
      0
      Quote: AlexStalker
      and further at times ... more expensive than the tunnel through the Lamansh

      Estest .. but .. And how do you like? We have a different bottom relief, and the weather is worse, water, again, is saltier, plus the delivery of materials, apparently, only by air .. wassat