The special commission decided on the cause of the Proton-M accident

A special commission has completed its work, investigating the crash of the Proton-M carrier rocket, which failed to put the Express-AM4P satellite into orbit costing about 7 billion rubles. The commission came to the final version of the causes of the disaster. This version was presented by the head of Roscosmos Oleg Ostapenko.

Oleg Ostapenko quotes ITAR-TASS:

The final version, which we have today, corresponds to the preliminary conclusion that was at the first stage of the work of the interdepartmental commission. The telemetry and analytical information that we have shows that, apparently, there was a destruction of the bearing in the turbopump assembly.

At the same time, the term “apparently” used by Oleg Ostapenko gives reason to reflect on the fact that the conclusions may well turn out to be inconclusive.

We will remind that earlier a special commission mentioned sabotage as one of the causes of the launch vehicle accident. However, this version has been flagged. At the same time, the investigative authorities have at their disposal materials that allowed to initiate a criminal case under Article XXUM of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation “Intentional destruction or damage of property”. Reports the edition about it "Sight". The criminal case extends to all state of emergency with a launch vehicle of a similar type, which have manifested themselves lately.

Comments

[abrakadabre]

Darken, smoking rooms ... Afraid. no matter what happens with bold conclusions

[tronin.maxim]

So there many are tied to dark deeds, and here they are silent.

[GSH-18]

Everything would have looked plausible, if not for a whole series of accidents preceding this event!
================================================== ===========
Quote article:
“At the same time, the investigating authorities have materials at their disposal that made it possible to initiate a criminal case under Article 167 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation“ Intentional destruction or damage to property. ”This is reported by the publication Vzglyad. The criminal case applies to all emergency situations with a launch vehicle. of a similar type that have shown themselves in recent times. "
The version of sabotage and sabotage can be marked out only if another version is 100% proven!

[sub307]

Is it any wonder in a society where everything is bought and sold, including "versions", possibly anything. "Undercover fight" also has not been canceled yet.
In Russia, in recent history, has at least one major (in terms of finance) project taken place that is not connected in one way or another with some kind of "scandal"?

[staryivoin]

As a specialist in the field of liquid fuel rocket engines, I will immediately give my conclusion - this simply cannot be !!! This is either a staff error while assembling the engine, or a "paid sabotage". As far as I know, there were many levels of control in this area in the 80s and 90s. I do not believe that everything is lost instantly and immediately. Very disappointing.

[svp67]

Quote: staryivoin

I do not believe that everything is lost instantly and immediately. Very disappointing.

Here, quite recently, they told how many unexpected jambs were found in ready-made "Protons", from shavings and lead seals, where this should not be the case, to violation of assembly rules ... The skill level of the workers fell very much. And what else can you expect if the average salary of "Khrunichev" is 30 thousand rubles ... and this is in Moscow. Who will go there for such a salary to work? Moreover, the salary is average, which means that the hard workers get even less ... It's time to remember that for responsible work you have to pay CORRECTLY and not only to "effective managers" and their mistresses ...

[Samurai3X]

In the USSR, with the appropriate salary did not bother)

[fox21h]

Yes, most likely again the parts were purchased in China, damn it, we realized that we are ordering parts from China for the space program, a disgrace.
Or the OTC again

[Aryan]

7 billion rubles
this is how many centuries of labor a simple plowman mare into a crack

[sso-xnumx]

OTK is no longer a long time ago! Now there is a quality system stripped from Western documents, the so-called ISO-2000, -2008 by years of implementation. And if the Germans and Japanese workers are personally responsible, then we have this whole system exists only in the documents. Quality is a relative concept. It is either there or it is not. And at our enterprises everything depends on the person. She wants to make it so nice to watch. He doesn’t want to - he wouldn’t do it better. And it’s now a problem to control products - the controller must be at least with a secondary technical special education, and preferably with a higher technical and engineering education. But we were bugged by pinocchio - lawyers, economists, managers, who have nowhere to go. The result in the sense of fact is on the face!

[viktorrymar]

It is always surprising to me that protons don’t fall when they are carried by western satellites, and our satellites regularly ruin, it seems that all the same, sabotage.

[ECT]

Here it is the lack of elementary input quality control of materials. Because of the penny detail, they threw a whole rocket.

[GSH-18]

Quote: ECT

Because of the penny detail, they threw a whole rocket.

I think that in this rocket there can be no "penny" parts in principle! Otherwise, we get serious accidents with serious financial and image consequences! An attempt to save money on "space" in the overwhelming majority of cases will end in an accident.

[ECT]

No need to understand everything so literally. I agree that such a bearing is not cheap, but against the background of the cost of a rocket it’s a penny.

[dr.Bo]

Quote: ECT

Here it is the lack of elementary input quality control of materials. Because of the penny detail, they threw a whole rocket.

Not everything is as simple as we are told.

[Irokez]

Quote: ECT

Here it is the lack of elementary input quality control of materials. Because of the penny detail, they threw a whole rocket.

Even a bearing breakdown cannot affect the operation of the turbopump so much because the parts will still spin, but due to the design spacing and considering that after starting it all burns up in dense layers of the atmosphere, it cannot affect the satellite so much because everything that could break in the accelerating unit and having worked, even in a broken state, it should give out the nominal parameters of the pump in such a short time of its operation.
The bearing, even if it crumbles, the shaft will still spin, but with overheating and imbalance. It is necessary to look at the construction so it is difficult to determine what exactly because of the bearing everything broke.

[sv68]

Iroquois is not so simple as you wrote. 1-what kind of bearing is needle, roller, ball? 2-what exactly was allowed — a cage or a separator? 3-bearing fell apart completely completely or the internal cage burst became a spacer and jammed or displaced the shaft from - why did the vibration happen with the destruction of the pump? I can ask a thousand questions, but I will firmly say one thing that is not strange, but the official version is quite plausible

[Bayonet]

Quote: Irokez

Even a bearing breakdown cannot affect the operation of the turbopump in this way, because the parts will spin anyway

Turbo pumps of a rocket engine operate in such a stressful mode that the destruction of the bearing leads to the destruction of the entire pump. Here is an excerpt from the description of the turbo pump of the RD-170 engine.

[ochakow703]

With these parameters, bearing failure is the death of the entire structure.

[postman]

Quote: ECT

. Because of the penny detail, they threw a whole rocket.

1. Bearings, like TNA, are not a penny item, this is the basis of the rail, without the pressure displacement of the CT.
TNA RD-107

2. Although the bearing (in the domestic sense), as such, is not there (except for the axial support of the rotor):
- plain bearings (hydrostatic or hydrostatodynamic bearings, and which are lubricated by fuel components)
- combined seals consisting of fluoroplastic (in the oxidizer pump) and rubber (in the fuel pump), cast-iron split ring cuffs, reflector and labyrinths.

2. TNA-MANDATORY control (twist on the stand) at a speed of about 70-80% of the maximum.
Control-100%

[Signaller]

So someone plugged a hole that supplies lubricant to the interface. SOMETHING OR SOMETHING .. After all, they already wrote as if they had found several seals in the pipeline when they were illuminated. Sabotage was said in plain text .. Of course you do not need to look for enemies, but they are. Incompetence, ignorance. inability. and do not care — overcoming the entire population of Russia.

[postman]

Quote: Signaller

So someone plugged a hole that supplies lubricant to the interface.

Mb
but there are pressure sensors on the cutoff.

by the way, sorry I was mistaken on ТНА РД-253 = bearings (at fuel and oxidizer pumps)

judging by the launch video:
- The tightness of the cavities of the pumps and the turbine has been violated (provided by the use of lip seal and bellows type and hydraulic locks).
- "blockage of" drain lines "= In the event of leakage of components through the seals, they are discharged from the specially provided drain chambers through the appropriate drain lines.
=== As a result, ignition of SELF-BURNING COMPONENTS of fuel (video)

Quote: Signaller

Incompetence, ignorance. inability. and do not care — overcoming the entire population of Russia.

Yes. statistics are not in our favor:

============================
But another version is possible:
- in the event of an accident, the LV (any option) PN (satellite, GLONAS station, etc.) is not displayed and does not function, to check whether it was MON = not possible, money can be written off and mon not put into orbit.
-insurance, you get the jackpot.
Of course, these versions are with a touch of schiza, but after Serdyukov I won’t be surprised at anything

[Makarov]

Well, yes ... 100% ... they are installed in sterile seals in special boxes ... they are checked 150 times and here he "bang" and "flew" ... cheto something is not right here ....

[andrei332809]

the more commissions, the less useless.

[dr.star75]

Forgot to grease the bearing?

[sinukvl]

But Stalin was right!

[Matroskin 18]

And it is also important to know who took him to work and who is his godfather, matchmaker and brother!

[Yuri Y.]

At the same time, the investigating authorities have at their disposal materials that allowed to institute criminal proceedings under Article 167 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation

Selective accidents just hurt my eyes.

[MSA]

Something the guys do not finish.

[Irokez]

Quote: MSA

Something the guys do not finish.

If the launch insurance was large, then there could be a direct benefit of the accident and to make it even more profitable, they could launch a satellite dummy while saving stuffing. In addition, the work for the rocket launchers is preserved because the satellites still need to be launched.

[Dikson]

Quote: Irokez

launch fake satellite

Well, you don’t write any garbage at all .. what a fake ??! the satellites pass a lot of tests and trials before being sent to the cosmodrome, they are transported, shaking them like children, then the test procedures at the cosmodrome .. the matter is not in the satellites, but in the carrier. They just take us out of space ...

[chunga-changa]

Interestingly, the next time they’ll come up.

[cerbuk6155]

Quote: ECT

Here it is the lack of elementary input quality control of materials. Because of the penny detail, they threw a whole rocket.

And not only a rocket, but also an expensive satellite. Lavrenty Beria would have figured it out a long time ago.

[Kuznetsov]

On mail.ru, one person predicted exactly on 16.05.14 "..inadequate actions, actions that led to a catastrophe" - in other words, buzziness, negligence.

[ia-ai00]

I would rather believe in sabotage.

[Anchonsha]

For those billions of money that were thrown into nowhere when Proton was launched, something was not heard, that someone was punished. You just need to SEEK material damage from the perpetrators. Links to slackness, lack of control, people no longer believe what is happening? REALLY NEED BERIA.

[rereture]

And what do you charge from a person who receives a maximum of 20k per month? What salary is such a job.

[Leprechaun]

They still won’t tell us much more for at least a couple of dozen years, they are such state secrets ... the same thing happens with our opponents across the ocean.

[Oleg Sotnikov]

The trend, however! Names? Turnout? Surname?
Who will make the switchman?

[mamont5]

"Apparently, a bearing failure in the turbopump unit has occurred."

Now it remains to find out WHY the bearing collapsed and announce it publicly.

[sv68]

mamont5 - a very simple reason - made in rank

[antikilller55]

Our comrades are troubled by something with this bearing, they are not talking.

[Ivan 63]

DISCIPLINE, RESPONSIBILITY, FEAR.

[dr.Bo]

A rat has long lodged in Roskosmos!
Find her and everything will be calm!
And they are bearings blah, blah, blah!
I.M.Kh.O.

[horoh]

Even somehow muddy, vague everything, no specifics !!!!!

[Pentarhist]

http://gloriaputina.livejournal.com/352709.html Установлен новый рекорд российского космоса, 25 удачных запусков подряд. 11 безаварийных месяцев

Another satellite collapsed, Ukraine rejoiced. Again Raska's rockets are falling. Ukraine generally would be silent

They have accidents at all. from 1991 to 2011. On average, 20 launches one accident. Only Ukraine is beaten out 1 accident for 10 starts, but this is generally a difficult case.
The Russian Federation with the number of starts in 513, failures of 25 or 4,87%
In the USA, with the number of starts at 450, failures 28 or 6,22%
The EU with the number of starts in 149, failures of 5 or 3,36%
In China, with the number of starts at 123, failures 8 or 6,5%

[postman]

Quote: pentarhist

They have accidents at all.

More precisely and informative as follows:

[Leprechaun]

Quote: dr.Bo

A rat has long lodged in Roskosmos!
Find her and everything will be calm!
And they are bearings blah, blah, blah!
I.M.Kh.O.

Not so simple, remember the Phobos-Soil satellite, the launch of 2011 fell into the ocean and burned down. The official version is the failure of electronics and blah blah blah.

Here is a statement by the representative of Roscosmos

"" The head of Roscosmos stressed that accidents with Russian vehicles for some unknown reason often occur "during the period when they fly over the shadow side of the Earth for Russia" - where Roscosmos cannot receive telemetry from them. “I don’t want to blame anyone, but today there are very powerful means of influencing spacecraft, the possibility of using which cannot be ruled out,” he said.
But there is another version that is almost never voiced anywhere, but infa still pops up, supposedly the satellite got into a large geomagnetic anomaly over South America. which is connected with the magnetic poles of the earth ... PS and this infa is also from the bowels of Roscosmos.

so it’s not so simple ...

[Evgenh]

If this is sabotage - then the methods of education need to learn from I.V. Strelkova. And if the marriage, then to him for a couple of months on a business trip to dig trenches. But we cannot (which is very unfortunate) afford such a thing. Investigation, verdict, court, blah blah blah, and things are still there ... Passed, we know.

[Leprechaun]

Quote: horoh

Even somehow muddy, vague everything, no specifics !!!!!

Everything about space, everyone is vague and without specifics, I remembered the Apollo project at the Amer, there, too, the project for flying to the moon was dimly closed, the last two launches were canceled due to seemingly high costs, but interestingly, the rockets were already built and ready to launch and against the background of the money that they had spent by that time, the launch of the last two pennies ... maybe someday we will find out the truth ... Space is covered in mystery and darkness ... khekhe

[Giant thought]

A switchman today will be a bearing, welcome, dear guests of the portal.

[VNP1958PVN]

Just. Previously, engines would be inserted and relatives!

[family tree]

Which one? If we have an OMik of fifty furry year of release, it is covered with a signal point, then all the documents rise who last revised this point, and if there is a record that it is old and barely fit into the insulation resistance. Everything, a session of collective love, thoughtfully and with perversions. They have, damn it, a rocket, not, mnu even have no such words, some motherfuckers!

[Strashila]

"Apparently, there was a destruction of the bearing in the turbopump unit." ... the bearing is a cause or a consequence ... what really caused the non-regular operation of the THA ???
Specifically ... the bjak’s bearing, seats ... along the body or shaft, the installation is short-sighted ... squeezed, forgot to fill the grease ... or it turned out to be a weak link in the event of non-regular operation of the TNA ... what exactly ... voice.
In short, a finger ... uh ... into space.
Not knowing the diagnosis of how to treat the disease.

[Cananecat]

I am a new person here, although I have been reading you for a long time ... what I want to say ... At one time, while defending myself in Baumank for defectoscopy, I had a conversation with the professor just on the topic of "falling". So, in our production of these engines, we don't even have a method for assembling ... An acquaintance left Khrunichev due to low salaries, and hard workers from all over Russia are working there now for 30-40 rubles ... that the engines themselves are morally outdated, and all upgrades are made on the basis of what was developed 000-20-30 years ago ...
For all the information, I’m not surprised that once a year something falls and explodes ...

[abrakadabre]

despite the fact that the engines themselves are outdated

Obsolescence is a very subjective concept. What exactly is deprecated? The shape of the turbopump blades? Supply line diameter? Can we even talk about obsolescence for this class of products? I understand if new models with radically better characteristics appeared every 3-5 even 10 years. Then one could say: "why are we flying on obsolete aircraft, instead of flying 2-3-5 times more economical or 2-5-10 times cheaper at a cost of 1 kg." But this is not the case.
I believe, in this case, moral obsolescence is out of the question.

[pvv113]

most likely, there was a destruction of the bearing in the turbopump.

Not serious somehow. In aviation, all systems are duplicated, and some three times and four times. And here cosmonautics means duplication should ensure the probability of trouble-free operation close to 100%. And judging by the conclusions of the commission, the turbopump unit, being a responsible product, was not hedged by anything in case of failure. Somewhere there is a catch

[understudy]

Lyaya ... how simple it is - some kind of "ruble" bearing is to blame! Who did it? What material? Who controlled the entire technological process? And why hasn't this happened before? Where is the guarantee that such a bearing will not again refuse to "perform official duties"?

Forest fell and gloves to sew! This is at best ... then personal responsibility may appear and ... fear for the results of one's own labor. I emphasize personal responsibility in all areas and in all areas!

[seregatara1969]

again ran into money

[Polarfox]

Somehow, everything is not for Feng Shui,
In passing, hastily, somehow.
It’s like we’re building a big tower,
And the foreman is a loafer and.

Well, it used to be kept in books
Construction experience of such garbage.
Here we sit, a beggar and a huckster,
And like seeds, we split days.

[Baitly]

Chinese probably set! He is cheaper!
Investigators just need to raise the bukh., Where what and when and those were bought. documentation (determine the type of bearing and its requirements)
And all things

[rf xnumx]

oh this commission

[zollstab]

Control at each stage of production and assembly of each element.