The keys to the world are in the hands of Russia
Renowned Italian political journalist Giulietto Chiesa answers questions from the weekly Zavtra newspaper"Tomorrow": Mr. Chiesa, do Western Europeans understand the processes taking place outside Europe - for example, in Ukraine? Is there enough information to figure out?
Giulietto Chiesa: Europeans have no reliable information about the Ukrainian crisis. Practically all the channels, I judge through the Italian channels, and everywhere in Europe more or less all the same, they simply give a lie. In their interpretation, supposedly everything happens because Russia occupied Ukraine. And Ukraine wants to be independent, free to become a member of the European Union. Russia, however, is hindering, therefore it is to blame; Putin is to blame; he is a dictator. Everything is in this spirit.
And how can you understand something, even if nobody knows the composition of nationalities within Ukraine? I have Internet TV, the Pandora TV channel, on which I gave a few comments a day because I was the only alternative information source in Italy. And there I said that in the Donbass Russian people are defending themselves from the fascist regime created in Kiev. And several fellow journalists attacked me through the media: “Ah! Mr. Chiesa, a mercenary, admitted that Russia occupied Ukraine because he said that the Russian people in Ukraine are defending themselves. And what are the Russians doing in Ukraine?” That is, even journalists covering this topic do not know that about 10 of millions of Ukrainian citizens are Russian by nationality. They, their ancestors always lived there. There is a complete systematic distortion of reality. And when it is difficult to completely shut up, as about the tragedy in Odessa, they give information that is impossible to understand. "There was a clash. There was a fire. People died. We must investigate."
It is unclear to whom, and who clash. How many victims? And this information has no alternative, so people do not know the true picture. I have the impression that even the leaders do not know. No, this is not just an impression.
"Tomorrow": Country leaders?
Giulietto Chiesa: Yes, leaders. They read the same newspapers, watch the same TV and do not have the slightest idea of what is going on. Therefore, decisions are made at the level of ignorance.
Even progressive people, honest, open to different opinions, are not aware. I talked to a group of politicians - three deputies of the Italian parliament and two senators. Listening to my presentation of the situation, they were amazed: "It can not be! It can not be!".
But I still argue with the facts. These people were not opposed to Russia, they have no bias. Just ignorance! This Deputies They vote, make decisions! I spoke with five. And the others? Depressing picture. Those who control the media, can do anything to the development went according to their script.
"Tomorrow": It turns out that the fourth power dictates how to behave the first power?
Giulietto Chiesa: Yes, it dictates the first, second, to the authorities.
My Facebook resource is popular. It is visited by more than 100 thousands of people. But this is not television. People go on Facebook, watch 2-3 minutes - not for long. This is evident in the attendance of materials. If I write comments in 3 or 10 lines, then within a couple of hours up to 60 thousands of readers. But if the article where the point of view is expounded is analyzed, the number of readers is reduced by half.
"Tomorrow": But at the protest action against the actions of Kiev in the east of Ukraine, of which you were the initiator, the Ukrainian embassy in Rome had quite a few people.
Giulietto Chiesa: It was about 350 people I gathered through Facebook, through the "Pandora TV." Paradoxically, there were several Russian TV channels, take this action, but not a single Italian.
However, the effect was large. I received dozens of invitations from various civil society organizations to come and explain what is happening in reality. But to respond to these invitations can not. It is an unequal struggle. All channels every day the same thing written show. And I'm alone.
"Tomorrow": To understand the danger of fascism in Ukraine, you need to better understand stories or in modern times?
Giulietto Chiesa: History and modernity are closely related. For many years, and I do know there is a preparation of Russophobia. And not only in Ukraine. This is not done in one day. This requires not only the domination of the media, but also in education, training, selection of teaching programs, and so dalee.Naprimer, our government did everything to convince if the winner in the Second World War was the United States. More instilled: Stalin and Hitler are equal, they are dictators, totalitarian society built. This campaign of lies and misinformation continues and gives fruit.
What is happening in Ukraine is the result of long-term training of young people. Tens of thousands of young people participated in the events. So, it acted strongly and for a long time. This is the formation of a new generation. The same was in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, as I wrote in the book "The Latvian candidate, or the Unknown Adventures of a non-citizen in Europe." Several chapters of the book are devoted to describing how leaders were prepared for these states. After the fall of the Soviet Union, the leaders of the three Baltic republics, Poland, and Bulgaria and Romania were trained in the United States. And not only prepared, but also chosen with the help of America. These were the children of the Nazis, educated in the American spirit, but the remaining Nazis. Take Mr. Yushchenko, whose wife Kateryna Chumachenko was the creator of the Ukrainian information center in Chicago. We are now in a phase where American “democracy” literally puts Nazism in Europe.
"Tomorrow": For what purpose?
Giulietto Chiesa: In order to break the resistance of the Europeans. Now is not the moment to be too complimentary with respect to the Europeans, but, nevertheless, Europe is not America. It is impossible to finally colonize Russia, and Europe cannot be colonized completely, because it is a different civilization. We have a very long history. They - the Anglo-Saxons, the Americans - a very short story. All the years after the Second World War, they tried spiritually, organizationally and economically to colonize Europe. Does not work. Until the end does not work. Of course, they advanced, captured quite a large part of the minds. But democratic experience, the experience of civil society in Europe exists. You can't cross it out of life for one generation, you need three, four, five. And this time has not yet passed.
What do Americans want now? To continue indefinitely its dominance. But since this is a difficult business in conditions of at least relative democracy, they simply use the worst European experience to weaken the opportunity to defend democratic Europe. Nazism is a very suitable tool, it will mine, plant a bomb under the European structures. And this is Nazism (we see this in the Baltic republics), built by the hands of Americans. And now it is being done in Ukraine, in Poland. "Right sektor" - this is the Polish brainchild, was born in Poland, and then was exported to Ukraine, Ukraine had freedom! UNA-UNSO, Bandera! But the "Right Sector" is Nazism in the truest sense.
"Tomorrow": What is modern Nazism? What do Americans want: racial superiority?
Giulietto Chiesa: No, for the Americans, it does not matter. This is important for those people in Europe who have been brought up in this spirit. But it triggered two overlapping trends: it is anti-communism and antirusizm, Russophobia. This can be seen in Ukraine: anti-communism and antirusizm, Russophobia operate simultaneously. I myself, as a communist, a correspondent in the days of the USSR in Moscow, is still getting a lot of abusive emails. They say you're a friend of Putin, because you're a Communist. Although Russia had not the Communists in power.
When I step on the television, I hear, even from colleagues, from the opponents: you are a Communist, are you from Moscow. They do not even know how to write such things, and say it with conviction and sincerity. They were convinced. It is intertwined with fantasy, myths. And it replicated.
"Tomorrow": It means that they have stagnation, a stop in development. And with the freedom of the alleged words just unfreedom.
Giulietto Chiesa: There is no longer any freedom of speech and information. There was a certain moment when freedom of speech was a reality. After the appearance of television, it disappeared. Immediately it was not noticeable, but now it is visible. We have a censorship in the literal sense of the word, which acts under the guise of freedom of speech.
I will quote the remarkable Marxist philosopher Guy Deborah, his book "The Society of the Performance", which contains prophetic things. He predicted at the beginning of 70's, when television was far from being the same as today, it was the beginning of the information age: the Society of the Performance - the truth - is part of the lie, and the lie is part of the truth. "
And the freedom of speech in such conditions has only one equivalent - manipulation. Freedom of speech? Yes, it seems that you are free, but lies and truth are connected. And a person, if he is not a professional, cannot compare one with the other, separate one from the other. He perceives everything together. People are so zombie.
This is characteristic of the mass consciousness in the West. It is a virtual society. And in this virtual society lives a billion people.
"Tomorrow": Parallels are drawn between the events in Spain in the thirties and the current war in the South-East. Will progressive-minded citizens from different countries come as volunteers?
Giulietto Chiesa: There is a dangerous situation, if it continues, it is difficult to predict what will happen next. Because NATO is rattling weapons and already ready to intervene. They can go for it. These are irresponsible people full of fanatics. Mr. Obama is a small man, a fanatic. And he, by the way, does not really affect the events. At the head of all are the secret services. You should not expect reasonable solutions from them.
These people are dangerous and need to behave sensibly, we must exploit their weaknesses. But in any case, do not count on a good move on their part. If they were zdravomyslyaschi, they would not have created this crisis. They own hands all staged. It is not an accident, not a bug, it's a purposeful deliberate attack on Russia.
What they did not know the situation that has developed between the Eastern and Western Ukraine? Knew. The Ambassador of Ukraine did not know? He knew well. A Polish Prime Minister did not know? I Knew. They did everything systematically, consistently and consciously, everything was orderly.
I constantly ask myself and the rest of the question: why is this done in February 2014? Ukraine was already in their hands. They could wait a year, new elections, Yanukovych would have been thrown out, they would have put Poroshenko, Chop-who would have wanted, and put it. They had power structures in their hands, all the levers: the Ministry of Defense, secret services. So why now? Why such a rush?
Apparently, they are in a hurry. Apparently, in America, the situation is absolutely restless, a crisis, especially a financial one. A financial crisis is an explosive ball that can flare up at any time. I am convinced that the situation is much more serious than it looks. The United States is in very poor condition. They say they are growing, but this is not true. Growing through the production of artificial money, which is not supported by anything.
Debt Americans too large. The crisis of America and the West in general is growing. And Washington would like to carry out the operation, which simultaneously hit in Russia and Europe. If embroil Russia and Europe, that will be fully and finally into the American camp.
It turns out - it does not work. I have an opinion that will not work. But the Americans still played all-in. I think they will continue to play. Therefore, the situation is very, very serious. This is not a regional crisis, it is a crisis that was created artificially against Russia in order to hit Russia and especially emphasize it - in order to hit Putin personally. They think that if Putin is removed, they will have their hands free to act within Russia, using the "fifth column" and others.
It is necessary to monitor whether the operation that Putin is leading will turn out to show the Europeans that it is not in their interest to behave this way. Is there such a possibility? Yes, because if you look closely, it is not Europe that made such a decision. It was only a part of Europe - Poland and the three Baltic states with the help of Germany. But with the help of Mrs. Merkel, because many people are unhappy with such actions. Entrepreneurs are unhappy. And the same is in Italy and other countries. For example, no one consulted with Italy, Greece, Spain. So it was not Europe that decided. And a kind of cooperation within Europe: America plus a part of Europe. Therefore, an attempt to explain that not everything goes as it should, makes sense. And can bring results. I hope that it will be like that. But a lot depends on the behavior of American leaders.
"Tomorrow": Is the Russian so-called elite an ally of Putin and the state, or is it an opponent of Putin and the state, because it is connected to Wall Street and depends on them?
Giulietto Chiesa: In part, these people depend on the West, they have money kept in banks there. But this situation is dual: the capital is there, at the same time it is in grave danger. If you choose a dollar as your only coin, you may be in a difficult position.
"Tomorrow": Like in Cyprus.
Giulietto Chiesa: Exactly. And perhaps much worse. There are those who are aware of this.
All I see is the rebirth of the Russian spirit. It happens! Crimea was a wave, emotions, but this is a very deep factor. The wave moved to the South-East.
After the fall of the Soviet Union, Russian Ukraine took it as normal. I'll remember that there were many Russian, who applauded this event. Independence! And look what a difference right now. For the first time since the collapse of the Soviet Union the Russian people felt their identity wherever they are.
After the coup, the wave went: Crimea, eastern and south-eastern Ukraine, then Russia as a whole.
I think this is a turn. Unexpected for Americans and, maybe, unexpected for oligarchic structure in Russia. Now they are in a completely different situation than, for example, at the end of 2013 of the year. And we must take into account the current unforeseen situation, rebuild thinking. Russia's retreat is over. For the first time in the last 30 years, Russia is beginning to realize that it cannot retreat any further, that it is Russia. And Putin understood that.
"Tomorrow": How do you explain this? After all, in recent years, the media have been in the hands of the liberals, they have corroded the Russian spirit, they have zombied people, they say, it is a shame to be Russian, we are guilty before the whole world for all the sins of humanity. And now there is a revival. How did this happen?
Giulietto Chiesa: Sense of danger. This attack from the very beginning was against the Russians. It is against the Russians. This is probably even a mistake of these figures. After all, their first decision is to ban the Russian language. So clear, openly announced! And people at that moment feel in danger. And self-organized to defend themselves. This is the only new factor that can essentially influence international relations.
Unfortunately, there is no voice of Russia in the West. This is the weak point: the point of view of Russia in the West does not exist, it is not represented.
"Tomorrow": Are there currently any international standards that would not have been violated? We see not even double standards, but international arbitrariness and the absolute correctness of the strong.
Giulietto Chiesa: Yes, there was scrapping all political norms. We are in a phase of demolition. It is not yet consciously by many, but the situation is such that all the rules have been violated, the rules are broken.
And I understand the behavior of Putin and Lavrov, that they behave as if the rules still exist. This is the right behavior. This is the only way to control the situation, otherwise there will be war soon. They are provoked constantly. Russia replies: Convene the UN Security Council, even if it’s clear that they will repeat the same things there. But steps of this kind are necessary anyway.
But the attack against Putin? Sanctions against all around him? This is unprecedented! Even indecent how attackers behave.
The basics of security are all broken too. After what happens, European security does not exist. And if European security does not exist, then there is no longer any global security.
In Europe, this is not realized. Because they think: we are good, we do not do anything bad. But what happens? Ukraine was captured by NATO, and soon Ukraine will be in NATO. Without Donbas or with Donbas, but there will be. After that - security in Europe is over. Therefore, we need new thinking. But in Italy, no one is aware of the new situation. As if the previous one continues. We need to create a new system of international relations.
"Tomorrow": But who will articulate? Americans cannot openly write: everything we do is right. And everything that our opponents do is wrong. And it turns out that way. Who will write and accept the rules if the only emperor is America? She would not consult with anyone.
Giulietto Chiesa: During Maidan Russia completely absent. And suddenly!
I was a pessimist and stay. But the American empire is dying, this is my theory: they are in a position where it is impossible to return to the previous situation in the old balance of power. There are already giants that will not be dependent on the United States. China is China. And Russia, in a certain sense, is also Russia. Identity is not lost by it.
China will never lose its identity at all. He became a capitalist country, but a powerful culture, powerful traditions, powerful language. This is another continent, another planet. Therefore, it is impossible to return to the past situation. Americans live by the illusion that they can dominate even in these conditions. But this is war. Of course, they are the most armed, and they know it. It seems that the tops of America believe that they can destroy everyone else. This is a crazy idea. This means the third world war.
This is the balance of the situation. Americans are losing real power in the world. They are no longer an empire. Not in the future can lose power, and not the empire. But they have a lot of money, albeit artificial, to unleash a world war. How much their aspirations go to the end - I can not say.
"Tomorrow": And they do not allow that this war can spread to their continent?
Giulietto Chiesa: They do not think about it. Therein lies the greatest danger. It is intertwined with their opinion and belief that they have a mission of liberation. At that millions believe. Even Mr. Bush, US president, believed in it! He said the morning I was talking to God.
"Tomorrow": How much more does the world of wars unleashed by America need in order to understand what its true goals are, that the Americans will not stop in their insane actions?
Giulietto Chiesa: The world in a certain sense has already begun to see clearly. Not in Europe yet. Signs of manifestation of reality - in Latin America. This is serious - the whole continent. China, India, South Africa and other states that today are not fully defined.
Part of the world order knows that America is very dangerous. But that's only part of it. And in Europe, the Americans while keeping political control. The political, not social. Social control, they lose. A political and, of course, the military, hold. NATO's position is very strong there.
I am convinced that withdrawing from NATO is a preliminary step to avoid war. And this my platform is gaining points. The audience is expanding, and there is a group of deputies of the Italian parliament who are starting to speak in this spirit. I'm working on it now. I want an opposition to appear within the parliament, which would say: we want to be neutral, outside NATO, like Austria. Austrian situation in Europe: independence, sovereignty and neutrality.
"Tomorrow": You have decided to become a member of the Izborsk club. Why?
Giulietto Chiesa: Because I think: Russia today is a fundamental pillar to preserve world peace. If Russia withstands this attack, for all of us it will be a salvation, no doubt. I say this not because I am pro-Russian, no, I am pro-European. It's very simple: I want to live. And he said it on TV: I want to live. My son and your children must live. For this you need to avoid war. Russia is a pillar of peace preservation fundamental, although not the only one.
And further. Russia and Europe have common interests. This is an objective fact. Russia is not an enemy, Russia is an ally of all humanity for survival. Russia has all the resources to open the way for the transition period to a different way of life throughout the world. For this 30-40 years is necessary. Europe needs Russia. Americans can neither protect us nor provide resources, which, by the way, are less and less. Considering sensibly, after weighing all the arguments, you yourself can come to the conclusion that this is so. But it is necessary to expand the audience to explain all this.
Recently in the city of Parma, I spoke at the Lyceum in front 17-18-year old students. I spoke 3 hours. And these guys have understood me perfectly. It was an optimistic call. I spoke openly: it will be difficult. But I say to you all that you can to protect themselves. The response was so positive that I was surprised. So this young audiences should be expanded. They just have zero information. They tabula rasa. But they are not stupid, they feel the situation. They feel that their fathers were in the best position.
"Tomorrow": I think that the western side is hindering foreign tourism in Russia in an organized and thoughtful way. And not only that there was no economic support due to tourism. But so that people, having arrived, would not see that everything is completely different from the way they draw.
Giulietto Chiesa: Indeed, if they come here, they will find a completely different situation than they draw.
"Tomorrow": And why do you think that the keys to the world are in the hands of Russia? Why do you see the fundamental support of the whole world in Russia?
Giulietto Chiesa: There are times when people react like people. They may be ill, may be psychologically depressed or elevated ... Or feel the danger. I see Russian reflex protection. It `s naturally. They received one blow after another. Since the ideology of the "empire of good" was very strong, they believed that all the talk about the danger of war and aggression from the West was the propaganda of the Soviet Union. The prevailing propaganda that won in their souls was this: everything said during the times of the Soviet Union was wrong. And when Reagan said the evil empire, even the Russians thought their country really was an evil empire.
And now, when there is no Soviet Union, they are still attacking. For what? Then it creates a sense of danger. "We were beaten while we were dangerous. But now we do not represent any danger, but we were again beaten. Why are they against us?"
In Yekaterinburg, I met with young people about what I wrote an article that had a big resonance among my readers in Italy. In this article, I noted that at times the USSR has a certain nostalgia for millions of people. They lost a lot in the spiritual sense, and according to the specific conditions of life in which they found themselves, they could be nostalgic. But the young guys with whom I met, do not feel nostalgia. One girl asked me a direct question: "We were born in modern times, lived all these years in a society that has nothing to do with socialism, but we still do not like it." Why? "
These young spiritually educated in Western spirit, and suddenly they realize that the West does not like them. This puzzled the young Russian.
The guys who invited me are very creative, smart. I asked: who finances you? They say: no, we do everything ourselves. This means that this is a new Russian intelligentsia, an initiative that no longer reflects as a category of nostalgia, but as a category: what kind of world do we live in? This is an open question, they have no answer yet. But the conviction is broken that America is an empire of good. Because they do not feel guilty. Nothing bad has been done. "We were your friends, but we see that they do not love us." And this is scrapping old notions. The question “why we are not loved” is not the answer, but it is scrapping the ideas that there in the West are necessarily good. No, apparently not so good.
"Tomorrow": ... May be wrong in the assessment. And if they do not love us, although we have not done anything bad, maybe we did not like the USSR in the same way, although he did not do anything wrong.
Giulietto Chiesa: Yes exactly. Much depends on Russia now. Actually, the most important thing depends on it - the world.
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