Military Review

Yellow is not dangerous to us. China is not necessarily an ally, but a profitable partner

63
Yellow is not dangerous to us. China is not necessarily an ally, but a profitable partnerAs far as I can tell, in our journalism, since the time immemorial of the demonization of China, it is much more than its idealization. Stories about the "yellow danger" existed throughout the "white world" - including in the Russian Empire - at the end of the XIX century.


I must say that such horror stories had some grounds for themselves. As far as I know, even at the turn of the XVIII – XIX centuries, the average standard of living in China was higher than in Western Europe. Only a massive robbery by Western Europe of various colonies allowed it to create a workable - and for a couple of centuries even an efficient - economic system, which then really began to develop on its own soil.

And then - for the development it needs a constantly expanding external market, which, in fact, led to two Great Depressions, when the expansion of the market faced some kind of problems. The first Great Depression arose when the colonial system embraced almost the entire world and divided it into segments. The second Great Depression arose when it turned out that the entire world market was already embraced and it had nowhere to expand.

In any case, the memory of Chinese greatness was preserved in the 19th century, and many expected that China would take some kind of active action to regain this greatness. And so the Opium Wars, when Britain by force weapons achieved the right to kill Chinese with drugs, and even more so did not bring joy to China, and it was clear that if he had the opportunity to take revenge, he would take revenge. Therefore, the traditions of demonizing China are very old - and in some respects, as can be seen from the foregoing, they are based on real contradictions.

But along with this tradition, there is a rather long tradition of idealizing China. In Russia, it is connected, in particular, with our own history. The Russian statehood was formed with a hefty eye on the Mongolian empire, and that, in turn, borrowed very many methods of government from China - it was one of the first states conquered by the Mongols. Therefore, many features of Chinese civilization in general and the Chinese state mechanism in particular seem natural to us, even if the West considers them obsolete, if not strange at all. For example, I - an employee of purely mental labor - seems to be useful rule that has been observed in China for many centuries and forgotten just a century ago: to appoint to all positions only those who have passed quite difficult exams in Chinese classical literature and philosophy (these disciplines are hardly directly applicable in managerial work, but the exam proves at least the ability to understand complex texts and reflect on complex issues).

Now the tendency towards idealization has been seriously reinforced by the fact that China combines the features of a socialist state and the wildest market - therefore, both ardent communists and equally ardent libertarians draw examples there to substantiate their point of view.

I do not think that Chinese customs or current plans deserve even demonization, even idealization. In any country, there are enough flaws and merits - and China is by no means an exception to this rule.

In particular, it seems to me that the stories about the creeping expansion of China into the Russian Far East do not make much sense. If the Chinese wanted to settle on these lands, they would have done this a few centuries ago, when there was practically no one on these lands, and the Chinese people already numbered tens of millions. And now in China, the south is populated much denser than the north. It seems that the Han people really do not want to freeze.

Similarly, there is no need to expect from China and serious military aggression against any capable neighbors - all historical experience proves that China’s aggression has never been serious and durable. Perhaps it is precisely because China, two and a half millennia ago, experienced a two-century period of the fighting kingdoms. From him came the treatise of Sun Tzu, still considered one of the fundamental manuals on the art of war. It seems that in more than two centuries of the fighting kingdoms, the Chinese have fought the whole story forward.

So I see no reason to demonize China. As for idealization, the mere fact that socialist and capitalist economic management already in the country were already toughly confronted, the whole way of life is mixed up and very soon something stable will emerge from this, enough not to consider China as an ideal.

For the Russian Federation, China is, if not an ideal, then a fully useful partner. In some situations - let us remember at least his position on Syria, Ukraine - he even turns out to be an ally. But quite rarely, because China’s own interests are complex enough that a serious alliance is possible only on a very narrow range of issues. But as a partner, he is very useful to us. If only because it badly needs not only our raw materials, but also our high technologies. Unlike Western countries, we don’t have to keep China on a starvation technical ration: we, even despite the quarter-century efforts of reformers, have enough creative abilities and technical schools to immediately come up with even better ideas instead of every development that was outsourced.

As far as I can tell, at least one more, or even two generations, our partnership will be beneficial to both parties. And for a longer period, I personally do not dare to guess.
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http://www.odnako.org/blogs/zhyoltoe-nam-ne-opasno-kitay-ne-obyazatelno-soyuznik-no-vigodniy-partnyor/
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  1. Alexey N
    Alexey N 24 May 2014 18: 12
    +4
    it seems to me that the stories of China's creeping expansion into the Russian Far East do not make much sense
    When juggling historical facts for the sake of momentary gain - it always ends badly. Solemn, but not serious article. At this pace, Wasserman will drop to the yellow press.
    1. Interface
      Interface 24 May 2014 19: 38
      0
      Personally, I will calm down when:
      1. The Chinese will begin to be exported from the Far East back to their homeland.
      2. When Russia finally makes an industrial breakthrough in 25 years without socialism. Hmm. However, judging by the latest economic indicators, this will not happen for a long time. "Made by us" doesn't really comfort me. After all, one open innovation venture either has a significant share of foreign investment, or it is too small. Candle factories for 25 slaves places from Rusnano will not save Russia, for all the novelty.
      3. When will we start to oust "investors" from Russia. This is especially true for Chinese. This requires a general rise in all branches of industry and here I refer to point 2. This is impossible.
      4. When the restoration of Soviet defense communications finally begins in the Far East. And then, as our troops took 10 years ago from the developed positions, they still stand in forests and swamps. And the Chinese-- in the clearing at home.
      1. Tolerast
        Tolerast 24 May 2014 23: 22
        0
        The nonsense that you wrote in my country will never happen. Not fools sitting upstairs.
        1. Interface
          Interface 25 May 2014 01: 20
          +2
          Putin is not God, he cannot see everything. He is also a person who has a limit of knowledge and intelligence. And when the Chinese buy up enterprises in the Far East, the Russian population will mix smoothly with the Chinese - this is "our" region under Chinese control. If Russia did not have today's demographic problems, the collapse of production after the 90s and dependence on imported technologies, then it would be possible to look at cooperation more calmly. Otherwise, no matter how it turns out that we will crawl out from under the West, and lie down again under China!
          1. Tolerast
            Tolerast 25 May 2014 03: 24
            0
            Are you from the Far East? If yes, and everything as you say - there is something to seriously think about. My friends from Vladik drew a slightly different picture for me. It seemed that the Chinese were coming and going, they were writing and nothing more. I thought they were not very happy to live in their own northern provinces. Everyone prefers Shanghai-Hong Kong-Guangzhou ... And there is more money and more work. I do not even know.
            Investment is the blood of the economy. Although they are Chinese, at least Zimbabwean. So I, the liberal, have been taught. Nowhere without them. Otherwise, why did Putin come to the forum now.
            But no one needs to be taken out anyway. This is too categorical and will have bad consequences. Do you give a system of quotas for the import of the Chinese? Well, it's not for me to decide.
    2. Sterlya
      Sterlya 24 May 2014 20: 01
      +3
      Normal ally and partner. For Hump with EBN, the United States were friends, and they were ready to lick the rest. because there was no mind in the head. But there is no mind, consider a cripple.
      With a fool, no one will lead a normal business, everything should be wisely. and everything will be fine.
    3. Blondy
      Blondy 24 May 2014 22: 36
      +1
      Yes, Wasserman excelled. Although he should have known that after the Second World War, China came into conflict with all its neighbors (India, Pakistan, Vietnam, Russia), he scribbled Tibet. And now muddy waters with Vietnam and Japan over the disputed islands. And the principles of the father of the Chinese restructuring of Uncle Dan: wait, strengthen the economy, get ready and jump. Already built aircraft carriers - a very defensive type of weapons. Everyone knows about missiles and bombs. According to some estimates, by the 50th year it will jump to Russia.
      1. Blondy
        Blondy 25 May 2014 05: 45
        +1
        I look, the positions of the people are divided, then I will remind you that on some Chinese maps the entire east of Russia up to the Urals is designated as temporarily occupied territories. And in China, it is traditionally taught not to humanism, but to the ability to hold one's face, i.e. if you are a warrior, then behave like a warrior - be ruthless and destroy all enemies. Well, the leaders will show you the enemies. And under their leadership, an easily-controlled one and a half billion Chinese people in a single rush, and so on and wherever.
    4. yushch
      yushch 24 May 2014 23: 23
      +1
      There is no fraud here, almost the entire population of China lives on the coast in large megalopolises. Inner Mongolia is practically uninhabited. The Chinese do not like harsh weather conditions. Samurai always drove saliva to the Far East.
      1. Interface
        Interface 25 May 2014 01: 13
        +1
        My dear, do you have any acquaintances in the Far East? Apparently not, but I have, he lives in Vladivostok. Do you know what he says? And the fact that the male population there thumps black in the majority, so there are often cases when girls marry Chinese. What? Working, caring. They like everything. As a result, Asians replace the Slavs. And I don't need to quack about the "officer's daughter". Every 4 Chinese, this is only by eye, official statistics of such content are never published, the question of national security, you know!
        1. Coward
          Coward 25 May 2014 02: 33
          0
          And I will answer you not as a person who has a "friend in Vladivostok," but as a native of Vladivostok, who, moreover, returned to his homeland a month ago after 8 years of living in China.
          Stop telling tales
          Every 4 Chinese, it’s only by sight, they never publish official statistics of such content, the question is of national security, you know!
          . So many Chinese were at the time of my departure from Vladik. Now every 4th is a resident of Central Asia.
          1. Tolerast
            Tolerast 25 May 2014 03: 46
            -1
            By the way, mine also complain about the inhabitants of the villages. I’ve added a bit - where did you get them from? And about the Chinese, what about the Chinese, the Chinese are like the Chinese. You can’t see them very much or hear them. And the North Koreans also have .... HORROR !!!
          2. Interface
            Interface 25 May 2014 14: 30
            +1
            So many Chinese were at the time of my departure from Vladik. Now every 4 is a resident of Central Asia.


            And how do you distinguish a dark-skinned Asian with black hair, a resident of Central Asia, from a dark-skinned Chinese with black hair, who lives in Inner Mongolia?

            I just conveyed from the words of those who live there, I am responsible for the words.
        2. Tolerast
          Tolerast 25 May 2014 03: 41
          -1
          Interracial marriage is wonderful. It would be wonderful if the kids grow up as patriots of China. Russian women, seriously take up the upbringing of the younger generation of Russian Far Easterners.
          1. Interface
            Interface 25 May 2014 15: 59
            +1
            Interracial marriage is wonderful.


            Well, here we will have Russian-Chechen boys as patriots of Russia. Wonderful.
    5. VNP1958PVN
      VNP1958PVN 25 May 2014 03: 04
      +1
      Something has recently been throwing Wasserman's reaction in different directions. Himself then at least in Birobidzhan-in the Far East? Have you seen "disposable" Russian lands in the hands of the Chinese, on which after them the grass does not grow?
  2. DanSabaka
    DanSabaka 24 May 2014 18: 14
    +7
    China, of course, we have an ally .... But a temporary ally .... And cunning .... Evan took advantage of the situation and knocked out the minimum price for gas supplies ....
    Behind such an ally of the eye, yes an eye is needed ...
    1. v245721
      v245721 24 May 2014 20: 46
      +5
      not an eye but a huge radar. and a lot of rockets.
  3. Giant thought
    Giant thought 24 May 2014 18: 21
    +8
    Even the fact that China is definitely not our enemy for a certain time is already good. That is, we have added time for our gain, and we must use this time wisely to strengthen our power: economic, financial, military and demographic.
  4. UFO
    UFO 24 May 2014 18: 22
    +4
    China is much more dangerous than the Caucasians, but so far everything is decided by a momentary conjuncture, and in the fight against "partners" it is still an ally for us, but this is only FOR YET ... recourse
  5. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 24 May 2014 18: 25
    +8
    well, I don’t know .. my brother gave his whole life to serving in border troops, Dauria if anyone is interested, so when he came on vacation to the Urals, he told me a lot of interesting things, and it struck me that the Chinese were very cunning and prudent people, provocations and violations on the border were constantly, and they know how to be kind and simple-minded, but this is a mask no more ... and I have no reason to doubt my brother’s words.
    1. armageddon
      armageddon 24 May 2014 18: 35
      +4
      Well, we are pancake-simple-hearted good-natured ... !!!
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Bear
      Bear 25 May 2014 00: 36
      0
      All this is very correct, yes ... But it is not China that has entangled the whole world with a network of military bases, and it is not China that has been fighting almost continuously in recent years in non-neighboring regions, imposing a Chinese way of life there and Chinese democracy. And it is not China that balamutes the post-Soviet space with color revolutions, pouring blood into the once peaceful cities and villages. And this is not China - the world champion in falsity, hypocrisy and terrifying cynicism! Draw your own conclusions.
    4. Russian jacket
      Russian jacket 25 May 2014 02: 14
      0
      I confirm the words of your brother. The same service in PV. hi
    5. not main
      not main 25 May 2014 02: 29
      0
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      but I have no reason to doubt my brother’s words.

      Yes and no doubt! The Chinese (like all Asians) very subtly see their benefits! And they do not care at all if there is no their benefit!
  6. Rus2012
    Rus2012 24 May 2014 18: 27
    +2
    РїРѕСЃР »Рµ С„ СЂР ° Р · С ‹-
    РѕРЅ Р ± С ‹Р» РѕРґРЅРёРј РёР · РїРµСЂРІС ‹С ... РіРѕСЃСѓРґР ° рств, Р · Р ° РІРѕС'РІР ° РЅРЅС‹ С ... РјРѕРЅРіРѕР »Р ° РјРё.

    перестР° Р »С ‡ итР° ть РґР ° Р» СЊС € Рµ ...
    1. iw-lankof2011
      iw-lankof2011 24 May 2014 19: 32
      +1
      Quote: Rus2012
      РїРѕСЃР »Рµ С„ СЂР ° Р · С ‹-
      РѕРЅ Р ± С ‹Р» РѕРґРЅРёРј РёР · РїРµСЂРІС ‹С ... РіРѕСЃСѓРґР ° рств, Р · Р ° РІРѕС'РІР ° РЅРЅС‹ С ... РјРѕРЅРіРѕР »Р ° РјРё.

      перестР° Р »С ‡ итР° ть РґР ° Р» СЊС € Рµ ...

      After this phrase, I also lost the desire to read further, but, as an inquisitive Mr. the author had a question: since, as knowledgeable people write, the Chinese wall was built by loopholes in China, is that an ordinary Chinese trick or the great Mongols built this wall for the defenses against the Chinese even after the construction of this wall fell into disrepair so that they were no longer mentioned in the historical annals, or the Mongols built in anticipation of their decline. Well, since the Great Mongols are sleeping, we still need to be afraid of the Chinese with their cunning.
  7. mig31
    mig31 24 May 2014 18: 29
    +3
    We have enough nooks and crannies on the tricks of China, we, too, are not sewn ...
  8. cerbuk6155
    cerbuk6155 24 May 2014 18: 33
    +12
    It is better to have CHINA as an ally than as a friend of the USA, an ugly and stinky country. soldier
    1. Basarev
      Basarev 24 May 2014 19: 06
      +5
      In this regard, my opinion is that - Alexander III correctly said - Russia has only two allies - its army and navy. It should be remembered that a partner and an ally are not identical concepts at all.
  9. Sibiryak1303
    Sibiryak1303 24 May 2014 18: 36
    +7
    Do not forget, there is a trick of China, and there is a Russian savvy from which Europe and America have a nervous tic yes
  10. mamont5
    mamont5 24 May 2014 18: 44
    +3
    “As far as I can tell, at least one more, or even two more generations, our partnership will be beneficial to both parties. And for a longer period, I personally do not presume.”

    All right. We must live now. But cook tomorrow.
  11. Bobxnumx
    Bobxnumx 24 May 2014 18: 45
    +4
    The Chinese have always been on their minds. They are unlikely to be allies, but economic portners are unequivocal. Based on the economic partnership, they will support Russia, but I think so long as it is beneficial for them.
  12. niki233
    niki233 24 May 2014 18: 51
    +3
    China has enough internal problems, so in the near future expansion and imperial ways are unlikely to be expected from it. And cooperation is beneficial both for us and them.
  13. ya.alksndp
    ya.alksndp 24 May 2014 18: 55
    +1
    Quote: DanSabaka
    Behind such an ally of the eye, yes an eye is needed ...

    yes
  14. Basarev
    Basarev 24 May 2014 19: 08
    +1
    Nevertheless, despite all the economic partnership and the game of friendship, you should be careful with China ... We must not allow all sorts of creeps!
  15. Rost_a
    Rost_a 24 May 2014 19: 14
    +2
    After the first two paragraphs of the text, I was a little taken aback - my hand reached out, without finishing reading, to put a minus. Reading the text, it seems that they are made up of some stamps about China. Having found out who the author is at the end of the test, I re-read the article.
    I hope we have a wise leadership who, seeing all the pros and cons, will make the right choice.
  16. VL33
    VL33 24 May 2014 19: 23
    +1
    The USA is such a country with which Russia should have a Strong Fleet and Army in its friends :) and talk like under the USSR.
  17. snifer
    snifer 24 May 2014 19: 34
    -2
    remember 1939, specifically August is even more specific on the 19th, I don’t say that everything is identical but there are similarities. (union of some against others) I think the situation will be the following. Russia will fight with the West and it will be successful, and it is at that moment that China will strike in the back .a since the military will be involved on other fronts we cannot fight back, do not even mention nuclear weapons in China, it is also (this is just one of the possible options and it cannot be excluded)
    PS the fact that the war will not even be in doubt, the whole question is when
  18. jekasimf
    jekasimf 24 May 2014 19: 43
    +3
    I do not believe !!! (Stanislavsky)
    I recently read analytics that if, during the war with China, 1 killed a million Chinese per day, i.e. 365 million a year. That is, the population of China will not decrease !!!!! They are able to reproduce themselves in such numbers! In terms of human resources, China is invincible. Yes, and their moral and patriotic training is enormous.
    In China, according to various estimates, there are more 40-70 million more men than women. According to popular wisdom, this is a clear sign of an imminent war ...
    We need to be friends with China and only be friends. But very carefully!
  19. Enot-poloskun
    Enot-poloskun 24 May 2014 19: 49
    +2
    I agree.

    It seems to me that the conclusion of long-term agreements on the supply of oil and gas makes a war with China impossible in the next 10 years.

    So that Khramchikhin does not sing)))

    In addition, China needs a reliable rear in the confrontation with the United States.
  20. Orc-xnumx
    Orc-xnumx 24 May 2014 19: 59
    +2
    The geopolitical interests of China contradicted the Russian interests in Crimea, however, China drew conclusions from the situation and, with some reservations, supported us.
  21. Orc-xnumx
    Orc-xnumx 24 May 2014 20: 06
    +3
    I think that now China is what the creator of the Kuomintang, Sun Yat Sen, wanted it to be. And it's time to unite politically with Taiwan! But Taiwan has a pro-American government. Yankees - world-class fuckers!
  22. sv68
    sv68 24 May 2014 20: 16
    0
    east is east and west is west, and together there can be no time for it — Kipling. China is only a partner for Russia, and only for the time being.
  23. Petlin
    Petlin 24 May 2014 20: 19
    0
    Listened to the latest news. The speaker was enthusiastic about signing a contract to sell gas to China for 30 years. This agreement is said to be very beneficial to China and Gazprom. Gazprom, not Russia! And again they shook Russia. The Russian oligarchy, led by GDP, does not give a damn about the well-being of its people.
  24. v245721
    v245721 24 May 2014 20: 48
    +1
    China is not our ally. But New Russia, yes.
  25. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 24 May 2014 21: 03
    +3
    I also remember on anti-Russian sites (2010) that China constantly scared Russia .. and you know why? Because they were afraid of the union of Russia and China because our countries would destroy this whole system when one country spread rot all over the world and not only financially but also really by bombing and the subsequent robbery .. Remember Syria? China supported Russia and Obama was simply frightened when our Navy was weak but nevertheless stood between Syria and the armored forces of the Armed Forces of Armed Forces .. And now we will sign treaties to press the United States together slowly and solemnly (China has its own spheres of influence in Russia and they agreed not to interfere with each other and help if something happens) These are the things .. Putin judging by the speeches is satisfied and confident in himself and in Russia of course! We are waiting for the events of the next .. hi
  26. Alex ponyatenko
    Alex ponyatenko 24 May 2014 21: 17
    -1
    Friendship with China? Do not make me laugh.
    See China-Russia trade turnover. Russia's share in Chinese foreign trade is only 2%. Or $ 88 billion.
    While with the EU $ 559 billion, with the US $ 529 billion, i.e. as a trading partner, the West is 12 times more important than Russia!
    So do not overestimate the importance of Russia for China.
    About technological cooperation. Yes, it was interesting to them in the 90s. But not now. Russia has virtually nothing to interest them. Be realistic.
    About the gas contract. This is a definite failure. An agreement for 30 years at $ 350 per 1000 m3 is unprofitable. Please note that for the construction of the pipeline will have to attract about $ 60 billion loan. Thus, construction can exceed $ 80 billion, taking into account the cut and% of the loan.
    Influencing China through gas will not work. Because these 38 billion m3 is a drop in the ocean. By 2020, China plans to consume 400 billion m3. So this is only 1/10.
    And the last one. Where did you see in the actions of China the support of Russia in Ukraine? They did not recognize Crimea. They did not support Russia at the UN voting. They essentially froze. Well, they took advantage of the moment to knock themselves out cheap gas. That's all.
    1. Vitaly Anisimov
      Vitaly Anisimov 24 May 2014 21: 33
      -1
      Quote: Alex Ponyatenko
      Friendship with China? Do not make me laugh.
      See China-Russia trade turnover. Russia's share in Chinese foreign trade is only 2%.

      I already wrote above .. that you like to count money .. (as at the Olympics) how much Russia threw money into the wind .. Understand that not everything can be estimated in money (dollars) .. Well, calm down finally .. stop freaking out! We generally drive gas to Ukraine for free, and they also dig us for it .. hehe ..
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. Alex ponyatenko
        Alex ponyatenko 24 May 2014 21: 40
        -3
        MIKHAN, you talk very consistently!
        That means that China can go to the east with gas at 350 dollars, while you will Ukraine at 480 dollars. This is normal? No.
        The second one. Everything is measured by money. For you, these are easy remedies. Easy came from the bowels - easy and gone. It is possible and 50 billion for the Olympics plump. You can build an unnecessary oil pipeline. Or a gas pipeline. You can cut the budget on Skolkovo. But you are now profiling the inheritance of future generations. What happens if production drops by 1/4? Then oil exports will fall by 2 times. Do not think that the freebie will be eternal. Indonesia used to be in OPEC, and now imports oil. This is an example to you.
        The third. Russia annexed Crimea. This is the first annexation in Europe since 1938. Remind who committed it? Follow in the footsteps of the Fuhrer, anti-fascists. And after that, someone else recalls the debt for gas!
        1. Barboskin
          Barboskin 24 May 2014 21: 49
          +1
          Quote: Alex Ponyatenko
          MIKHAN, you talk very consistently!
          That means that China can go to the east with gas at 350 dollars, while you will Ukraine at 480 dollars. This is normal? No.
          The second one. Everything is measured by money. For you, these are easy remedies. Easy came from the bowels - easy and gone.

          For Europeans, the price is European; for aztats, Asian.
          About the easy thing came. Heard an expression of walking meetings of the sun? When the great Ukrainians lay on the stove, our ancestors risked their lives going to meet the sun, which would make it easier for our descendants.
        2. Escander_84
          Escander_84 24 May 2014 22: 34
          0
          Your mister "bad" is not entirely correct information. Firstly: China, on a prepayment basis, pays Gazprom 2 tranches in the total amount of $ 45 billion. This is a direct inflow of money into the Russian Federation. Secondly, this inflow will allow Gazprom, apart from the construction of the first 2 lines to China, to practically complete the South Stream. Which will serve to stabilize relations with Europe. This, in turn, will allow the completion of the gas transmission channel with China. As a result, Russia will have 4 fully functional gas transmission systems, practically without external transit burdens.

          Well, as the ancestors said, "Nice spoon for dinner!" those. profit from the sale of resources is needed now and in a very large volume. (It must be some kind of "shi-shi", to transfer the economy from the resource base to the production base and others.) IMHO ...
          1. Alex ponyatenko
            Alex ponyatenko 24 May 2014 23: 26
            -2
            Let’s proof in the studio. I have not heard about any tranches of $ 45 billion. Are you lying?
        3. Bezarius
          Bezarius 24 May 2014 23: 09
          +1
          That means that China can go east for 350 dollars to the east, and Ukraine, therefore, you will for 480. This is normal?

          Yes, they are Europeans, and Europeans - the European price of gas.
        4. Tolerast
          Tolerast 24 May 2014 23: 17
          +2
          I remember that the Hyena of Europe, too, then pressed something out of the Czech brothers. And nothing - no one repents, does not sprinkle ashes on his head.
        5. olegglin
          olegglin 25 May 2014 01: 27
          0
          The third. Russia annexed Crimea. This is the first annexation in Europe since 1938. Remind who committed it? Follow in the footsteps of the Fuhrer, anti-fascists. And after that, someone else recalls the debt for gas!

          Poland and the Czechoslovak section [edit | edit source]



          The policy of England led to the fact that Hitler could no longer stop in the realization of his expansionist intentions. In this, for a time, Poland became his ally.

          Poland took part in the division of Czechoslovakia: on 21 of September 1938 of the year, at the very height of the Sudeten crisis, Polish leaders presented the Czechs with an ultimatum on the “return” of the Teszy region to them, where 80 of thousands of Poles and 120 of thousands of Czechs lived.

          On 27 of September a repeated demand was voiced. Anti-Czech hysteria escalated in the country. On behalf of the so-called “Union of Silesian Rebels” in Warsaw, recruitment to the Tesinsky Volunteer Corps was completely open. Detachments of "volunteers" were then sent to the Czechoslovak border, where they organized armed provocations and sabotage, attacked weapons depots. Polish planes daily violated the border of Czechoslovakia. Polish diplomats in London and Paris advocated an equal approach to solving the Sudeten and Teshin problems, while the Polish and German military, meanwhile, had already agreed on a line of demarcation of troops in case of invasion of Czechoslovakia.

          Day after day with the conclusion of the Munich agreement, on 30 of September, Poland sent another ultimatum to Prague and at the same time with German troops sent its army into the Tieszyn region, the subject of territorial disputes between it and Czechoslovakia in the 1918-1920 years. Remaining in international isolation, the Czechoslovak government was forced to accept the terms of the ultimatum [10].

          At the insistence from Berlin on October 5, President Benes resigns. His post is temporarily occupied by General Syrov.
          1. Tolerast
            Tolerast 25 May 2014 03: 14
            +1
            Yes polishishki - jackal is something else. None of the imaginary allies have ever respected them. Just cannon fodder against Russia and Germany. I do not like Crimea. The evil Russians took it. Return. Start with Silesia. Its Polishness is 0. Give Gdansk. Immediately. Justice requires it. Although, I'm sure the Germans will still return everything. By the way, most likely this is not our former, and even, of course, not a Pole. This is a natural Ukrainian service.
        6. Russian jacket
          Russian jacket 25 May 2014 02: 19
          0
          There was always a short conversation with thieves. Whip.
        7. not main
          not main 25 May 2014 02: 45
          0
          Quote: Alex Ponyatenko
          someone recalls a debt for gas!

          But you have to pay for debts!
    3. Escander_84
      Escander_84 24 May 2014 22: 42
      0
      Well, explain to me who in that region will be able to provide gas supplies in such a volume ??? Which will be necessary for China, in your words, by 2020.
    4. Tolerast
      Tolerast 24 May 2014 23: 14
      0
      The price is much higher than $ 350. Do not read Soviet newspapers.
      1. Alex ponyatenko
        Alex ponyatenko 24 May 2014 23: 23
        -1
        No, not higher. Weak to count? $ 400 billion contract for 30 years. 38 billion m3 per year. Now divide and get $ 350.
        1. Tolerast
          Tolerast 24 May 2014 23: 47
          0
          Miller's deputy, Alexei Medvedev, has already spoken out about the price and about such calculations from "every housewife" who is familiar with the terms of the contract and the figures indicated in it for the volume of supplies. Prices are at the level of European $ 380-390. Friends from Gazprom have not dried up for the second day. But Europe should not be afraid. Unless only in 2 years, when volumes will seriously increase and oil prices will rise. But then you already have a slate.
    5. olegglin
      olegglin 25 May 2014 01: 19
      +2
      I do not want to waste time on people living with the State Department manual instead of brains, but it is necessary. All these Nemtsovs, Latins and the like, who at first rejoiced at not signing the contract, and then began to declare with a sage air that the contract was terrible, and Putin leaked everything, and the "poor quilted jackets" would lose their afigliard in favor of the Chinese.

      I will not disassemble their parodies of calculations, because there will not be enough time. I'll just give my rough ("napkin") estimate:

      For simplicity, we take the final price as $ 350 for 1000 m3 gas and do not take into account that it will change during the life of the contract.

      We will not take into account that over 30 years gas production technologies will go far ahead and therefore the cost of production will decrease.

      Roughly, we can say that the price of gas consists of the price of production plus the price of transportation.

      Production at the fields "near China" is indeed more expensive than "the average for Gazprom", but everything fits into normal commercial logic.

      So, the cost of producing 1000 m3 for gas from the Chayandinskoye field (http://www.trubagaz.ru/issue-of-the-day/chajandinskoe-gnkm-jakutii/) - one of the most expensive of those that will be used -> 81,4 , $ 1000 per 3 mXNUMX.

      Only Heaven and the drafters of Gazprom's project documentation know exactly how much transport will cost through the Power of Siberia pipeline, but we have an estimate of the most expensive transport along the longest Gazprom pipeline: Bovanenko - Ukhta - Torzhok - Baumgarten (Austria) with a length of 4300 km, which it is approximately equal to the length of the Power of Siberia, while the Power of Siberia will still provide gasification of those regions through which it will pass and reach Vladivostok, where it will provide Gazprom with access to the Asian LNG market with sea delivery. So, the cost of gas transportation for 1000m3 along Bovanenko - Ukhta - Torzhok - Baumgarten (Austria) = 131,8 dollars. (http://ipem.ru/research/fuel/fuel_works/30.html)

      Add to the column.

      mining $ 81,4
      transport $ 131,8
      total $ 213,2

      With a selling price of $ 350, it is obvious that you can cram into the received margin the payment of a loan for construction and all other unforeseen expenses. At the same time, the country will still receive bonuses because the money will be spent on its territory, there will be a huge construction site, many jobs, orders for pipes, work for metallurgists, electrification, gasification, and access to the Asian LNG market. Moreover, after the construction of the first branch, increasing its throughput for subsequent contracts will be much cheaper than building everything from scratch, which is also a huge plus.

      I do not see point blank what can be complained to anyone other than agents of the State Department.

      By the way, about the loan for the construction of the Power of Siberia. If you drain 55 yards of American bonds, which are now bringing in scanty income, then the state may well give Gazprom a loan on ideal terms. The pipe, in my opinion, is an excellent asset, it makes a profit and you can confiscate its horseradish or subject it to sanctions.
      1. Tolerast
        Tolerast 25 May 2014 02: 52
        +1
        Yes, not $ 350 there in any way. There are good European prices. I give my liberal tooth. Or the whole jaw. Why is everyone clinging to this figure. Even the figures announced for the press by volume of supply are very roughly rounded by Miller. They won’t tell you everything. In this regard, there is an agreement with the Chinese. Yes, the project is very expensive, but in the future it will bring giant profits. Enough of these calculations on the knee. No need to explain anything to him. Let them look at the embarrassed beggar Barroso (they understand something) and the happy fat faces of the Gazprom men.
  27. 3vs
    3vs 24 May 2014 21: 27
    +1
    More than a hundred years ago, it was said by Emperor Alexander 3 -
    Russia has only two allies: its army and navy.
    All question is closed.
    1. Know-nothing
      Know-nothing 24 May 2014 22: 07
      -6
      Yeah ... And with strong China, if neo-90 comes in Russia, there is a chance of getting three hot spots: the Caucasus, Crimea and the Far East.
      1. Tolerast
        Tolerast 24 May 2014 23: 29
        0
        Why would a successful developing China have five heels of depressed Far Eastern cities with unprofitable factories? He is interested in resources. And you can buy them.
  28. Barboskin
    Barboskin 24 May 2014 21: 38
    +1
    China is neither a partner nor an ally; it is a fellow traveler. So far we are on the way. Till....
  29. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 24 May 2014 21: 48
    0
    Quote: Barboskin
    China is neither a partner nor an ally; it is a fellow traveler. So far we are on the way. Till....

    Spheres of influence were distributed and that’s all .. (well, we’ll put China on a gas needle) Liberasts are directly furious .. count guys count late! No luck in money .. bully Russia will be engaged in Europe, and they (the Chinese are doing their business in the east ..)))) And there is a secret agreement (we will send our liberals to them (for re-education) they are ours .. bully wassat ) a joke and yet
    1. Alex ponyatenko
      Alex ponyatenko 24 May 2014 22: 31
      -5
      Read my post again. Russia can NOT hook China on the needle, because plays a very small role. Even in the case of the start of supply under the contract. China already consumes 150+ billion m3 per year. And by 2020 they plan to consume 400 billion m3. And what does he have Russian 38 billion? In addition, in the energy balance of China, gas is only about 5%.
      It would be better if Russia was friends with the West, and not played with China.
      1. Tolerast
        Tolerast 24 May 2014 23: 12
        +2
        China will increase consumption. Volumes will increase decently. This is all just the beginning. And nobody is going to refuse from the West. Western civilization is the best that has been invented today on planet Earth.
      2. Bezarius
        Bezarius 24 May 2014 23: 20
        +3
        It would be better if Russia was friends with the West, and not played with China.

        "Better"? Yes, Russia has had problems for half a millennium because of the existence of the West.
      3. Russian jacket
        Russian jacket 25 May 2014 02: 24
        +1
        China plans to increase consumption not only for production, but also to improve the environment. So one dragon is better in competitors than a pack of jackals and thieves clinging to them ...
    2. Tolerast
      Tolerast 24 May 2014 23: 07
      -1
      You write everything right, only you don’t have to say so categorically about liberalists. We are different. And patriotic too.
  30. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 24 May 2014 22: 21
    +1
    Quote: Alex Ponyatenko
    That means that China can go east for 350 dollars to the east, and Ukraine, therefore, you will for 480. This is normal?

    This is normal! Ukraine is no longer .. there the US is sitting ..! In the process, write off.!
    1. Tolerast
      Tolerast 25 May 2014 03: 02
      0
      Tomorrow, Herr Poroshenko takes over the post of Gauleiter. How long?
  31. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 24 May 2014 23: 00
    -1
    Well, Onotole painted everything correctly ... In fact, Russia never had any close-minded partners, with the exception of certain post-Soviet republics. Yes, the United States does not actually have bosom friends, and the European Union is so diverse in countries both economically and socially that unity is achieved only by the efforts of Germany, as the most developed country. But we can count on China, since Russia is unfairly, dishonestly never enters, it always has truth and legitimacy on its side, and therefore China is currently very profitable to cooperate with us in the economy and in the development of new technologies. What will happen next no one can know, China is a rather specific state for interstate relations
    1. Alex ponyatenko
      Alex ponyatenko 24 May 2014 23: 28
      -2
      Those. was the annexation of Crimea fair? Or the invasion of South Ossetia and Abkhazia?
      1. Tolerast
        Tolerast 24 May 2014 23: 49
        +2
        Ask locals if not shy.
  32. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 24 May 2014 23: 20
    0
    Quote: Anchonsha
    In fact, Russia never had close partners in spirit, with the exception of certain post-Soviet republics. Yes, the United States does not have bosom friends, and the European Union is so diverse in countries as in the economy,

    Our Army and Navy are allies ..! China will support! Now we will deal with Ukraine and then Europe ...!
    1. Alex ponyatenko
      Alex ponyatenko 24 May 2014 23: 30
      -2
      How do you plan to tackle Ukraine? The maximum that shines for Russia is to chop off another 2 regions - Donetsk and Lugansk. Two subsidized, criminal and unpromising. You will also feed them an oil boobs.
      1. Tolerast
        Tolerast 24 May 2014 23: 52
        +1
        I agree here. Not needed. But not because of the costs. It’s full of money. The people there live diverse. Especially secluded. All is not the Crimea.
        1. Alex ponyatenko
          Alex ponyatenko 25 May 2014 00: 05
          -2
          Is there enough money? What are you! But what about the fact that in Russia for 5 years a hole in the budget of about 10 billion dollars a year?
          In addition, the international reserves of the Russian Federation are melting.
          May 1, 2014 was 533 billion dollars.
          January 1, 2014 was $ 509 billion.
          And on May 1, 2014 it became $ 472 billion.
          So, for the year, a loss of 62 billion. Then it will be.
          PS
          Russia and Crimea are not needed. The matter is about imperial manners and Putin’s desire to raise his rating. Well, now he is a hero at quilted jackets. 85% support!
          1. Tolerast
            Tolerast 25 May 2014 00: 42
            +1
            OH HORROR WHAT !!! With fear, this is already the most ... well, you understand. Russia quietly loses 70 billion capital outflows every year, but still has enough for everything.
            About quilted jackets - this is not for me. I am a glossy Westernized liberal, albeit from a remote province (Tula). Here, no one dies of starvation, even children and homeless people have expensive cars (but shit is expensive). Familiar neighbors travel around different balls and Prague to look at the local helpful animals, and have fun. People have money, even the last quilted jackets. Perhaps not a ruin after all. PS We have been promised for 1000 years that people are smarter than you and me, but Rassey is still there and the same.
            I never voted for Putin. Well there was an eccentric
            think about it. Fix it.
  33. Alex ponyatenko
    Alex ponyatenko 25 May 2014 01: 10
    -3
    Quote: Tolerast
    Russia quietly loses 70 billion capital outflows every year, but still has enough for everything.

    That’s why it’s enough. The accumulated reserves are spent. And, of course, petrodollars. And it seems to you that this will be forever. Will not be. At one point, a catastrophe will happen, as it was with the USSR. You can close your eyes to the very moment X. And after it you will blame the State Department, NATO, the USA for everything ... But not yourself.
    Putin and his company steal and give part of the Russians, so as not to rebel. Only the bowels are not endless! You will understand this soon.
    1. Tolerast
      Tolerast 25 May 2014 01: 21
      +1
      For 3, my life is enough. And then maybe something will change. I agree about Putin. He is his own thief, quite well fed. God forbid the hungry seize upon power. A catastrophe is unlikely. Already catastrophic with a margin. Let them already be in other places. Soon we will again deal with Europe. Thank you for the conversation, went bainki-wife is trying to take and break the tablet.
      PS. About Crimea you are wrong. Throwing their own is not a matter. Odessa did not happen there. And the rest are no longer ours. Let yourself.
      1. olegglin
        olegglin 25 May 2014 01: 45
        +3
        It's amazing how the wind brought this one-sidedly informed "Polish plumber" (C) with an American training manual here? Dear, your supporters live on "echo".
        1. Tolerast
          Tolerast 25 May 2014 01: 57
          +1
          Well let the person speak out. And then they think that we, quilted jackets, do not have freedom of speech. Only Kiselevsky zomboyaschik. gygy
        2. Russian jacket
          Russian jacket 25 May 2014 02: 28
          0
          Let him get out, at least from raising his own self-esteem laughing
          1. not main
            not main 25 May 2014 02: 56
            0
            Quote: Russian quilted jacket
            Let him get out, at least from raising his own self-esteem laughing

            Yes, already tired of his whining!
  34. alexey 76
    alexey 76 25 May 2014 05: 21
    +1
    Greetings from Ussuriysk Far East. 70 km to the border with China. There is no expansion. There are fewer Chinese than Uzbeks. Even in the notorious Chinese markets, Russian sellers. We ourselves often sometimes wander around twice a week in Suifunh, Duning on business. Chinese partners are sometimes much more decent than other Russian. I have two friends bought an apartment in Harbin. It is much easier for Russians to start a business in China than in Russia. Still whales grow greenery and vegetables on local unused fields for the cities of Vladivostok, Nakhodka, Ussuriysk. Our only reason is that the agricultural products are Chinese. So take yourself grow yourself. Who does not?
    1. Tolerast
      Tolerast 25 May 2014 08: 47
      +1
      Everything is clearly painted. Friends from Vladik tell me about the same thing. And then all sorts of "daughters of border guards in the 5th generation" got divorced ... Expansion-poslansiya ... blah blah blah ... They completely intimidated me.
      25 years just hear.