Military Review

"Benghazi considers corpses." What is common between Gaddafi and Strelkov

60
Igor Strelkov, by and large, has nothing to add to yesterday’s appeal by the DPR self-defense forces commander - everything is set forth very clearly. But here is one fresh historical it is necessary to draw a parallel, if for some reason many people do not notice it. I mean recent events in Libya.


In one of his last addresses to the people, the leader of the Libyan Jamahiriya, Muammar Gaddafi, said:

"You can not ask others to fight and die on your behalf to protect you. It is your responsibility as a person. ”

This message was primarily addressed to its own people. That people, who, even being armed, en masse, preferred to sit at home, while the fatherland was spreading at the seams. These people had every opportunity to defend him, but few did. Why? For the very same reason that potential defenders of Donbass are sitting out now, they hoped that someone would decide everything without their participation.

No, you can’t say that the Libyans remained indifferent - they eagerly watched the reports News and sincerely worried about what is happening. They even hung green flags in the windows to demonstrate solidarity with their leader to the whole world. But they believed that someone would do all the dirty work for them. At first they hoped for powerful Tuaregs, who harness for a long time, but ride fast. Just about they will appear on the horizon, tear the air with a warlike cry and an avalanche will fall upon these miserable rats. Uh, then do not ask for mercy, everyone knows how terrible Tuaregs are in their anger. And if so, then do not rush things and go under the bullets - the Tuaregs will soon do everything themselves.

In the meantime, militant forces occupied new strategic points, seized military warehouses, moved west to the capital.

Tuareg never came. The Libyan people didn’t cry a little, but quickly moved their aspirations to the aid of neighboring African states. The very ones that Libya sponsored for decades, the very ones who owe her one existence. A little more, it remains only to settle a couple of diplomatic formalities, and the military coalition of fraternal peoples will rise to the defense of the holy Jamahiriya. Then the rats will have hard times, because they will deal with real military force, which is too tough for them.

Meanwhile, the militants cut off the heads of Libyan officers, destroyed their children, robbed government offices, blocking the remnants of the Green Army in the capital.

The brotherly nations did not come to the rescue. NATO forces came to the rescue, but not to the Libyan people, but to their opponents. And soon those who previously thought to oppose the militants with weapons in his hands when rolled opportune moment, it became clear that this moment will be gone. He somehow imperceptibly turned out to be irretrievably missed. And then “Tomahawks” fell on their heads. Then they themselves began to shoot on the streets. Then they began to burst into their homes and kill, kill, kill. But they continued to hope. All their eyes turned on the two hero cities - Bani Walid and Sirt. Their brother-leader was already torn to pieces by the bloodthirsty crowd, their state had already been wiped off to dust, their honor and conscience had already been destroyed, but they continued to think that everything would be fine. After all, somewhere in the desert, resistance forces gathered in a steel fist. Somewhere hiding the sons of Gaddafi - experienced officers who are about to sweep away all this filth from the face of the sacred Libyan land. You just need to wait and not get under the bullets.

Bani Walid and Sirte held courageously. They were shelled every night, ironed them every single day aviation, every day, the defenders repelled another "decisive assault." And they held themselves so courageously that, it seemed, there would be no end to that. The Libyans now continued only to mentally empathize: “Do not get to the core of your rats, this nut! Know our! Soon you will be driven away! ” But the miracle did not happen again - the tormented cities fell, and their heroic defenders were mockingly killed.

Maybe now, when the war and the shame of the Libyan people are far behind, he has found a long-awaited peace? I read the Libyan press all this time, and she writes only about one thing. Here are the headlines of yesterday’s newspapers, but they are always like this:

"In Benghazi, new clashes with the Islamists";

“In Benghazi, a radio station was blown up”;

"Benghazi considers corpses afraid to do anything";

“Algeria closed the embassy in Tripoli after attacking it”;

"The explosion in the court of Ajabia".

This is a typical day of a state betrayed by its people.

Speaking about personal responsibility, Gaddafi appealed not only to his fellow citizens, he prophetically addressed to all of us:

“War, if it is not won in Libya, will come to you tomorrow. Get ready for her. Prepare traps for invaders. You must protect your home. Be united. Strengthen your defense, for they will come to you if they destroy us. ”

All heard it, but few heard. Even the martyrdom of Gaddafi and his state did not become a great lesson.

And the last. Today, many Russian readers blame the residents of Donbass for their passivity. I hope that those who allow themselves such assessments know themselves well and can guarantee that they would not prefer to sit out in similar circumstances. But I'm not sure that this is so. After all, that in Ukraine, in Libya, and in Russia — everywhere is one misfortune — for decades we were deliberately separated from the state, brought up in the spirit of individualism, accustomed to comfort. All so that at the hour X we prefer to stay in comfortable apartments and not get involved. After all, we are sure that at the most critical moment a superhero will surely appear in tight-fitting pants and will save us all one second before the end.

And will not appear. And it will not save. All by yourself.
Author:
Originator:
http://www.odnako.org/blogs/bengazi-schitaet-trupi-chto-obshchego-mezhdu-kaddafi-i-strelkovim/
60 comments
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  1. DanSabaka
    DanSabaka 20 May 2014 14: 36
    +32
    But the miners cut the coal, and quietly swear the master-aligarch, for the fact that he (the master) sponsors the Kiev junta, instead of raising the salary for him (the miner) ....
    1. creak
      creak 20 May 2014 14: 45
      -17%
      Actually, if you recall the recent history, Gaddafi himself came to power as a result of a military coup, overthrowing the king, who didn’t particularly spread rot, the country lived, in general, calmly ...
      1. ispaniard
        ispaniard 20 May 2014 15: 15
        +30
        Guys registered on "VOENNOY OBZRENIYA" would like to contact you ... Maybe it's enough to write the next opus ala- "Ahh, I knew that Putin withdrew the troops from the border! Everything LOST UKRAINE !! 111". -1) This does not do you credit (About Crimea, everyone was happy to gossip about how we correctly and politely added it). 2) Nobody has spit anything out of anything yet ... (From the beginning of the ATO, it was generally expected that poor Luhansk people in the SBU and Donetsk people in the Regional Administration would be rolled away within 24 hours) But no ... There are already LPR and DPR on the map ... ( Be able to appreciate what you have wink ) 3) Appeal ARROW is an appeal to the inhabitants of the DPR and LPR reminiscent of their sacred duty to PROTECT YOUR MOTHERLAND and do not cry for help, everything was lost! (Who watched his appeal understands what I mean). 4) The junta very quickly merges its cadres and motivation (anyone familiar with the tactics of guerrilla warfare understands what this is about). 5) V.V.P. Now in China, Xi Jinping is discussing EVERYTHING. The situation with the troops can change in the blink of an eye right up to the Khreshchatyk parade of the Kantemirov’s division (I’m exaggerating but ... who knows laughing ) 6) And probably, BASICALLY, do not forget that besides you, US officers also sit as electronic communications and communications officers in the NET IN space (I, Crimean woman, believe us this is not so simple ...), and just latent Russophobes. So watch, believe, fight!
        1. asar
          asar 20 May 2014 16: 56
          +3
          The military parade, in particular, the air parade in the Crimea showed how combat-ready the same Russian air forces are (honor and praise !!!) Take off from different airbases of the Russian Federation and be at the right "point" at the right hour, minute !!! It will be "cooler" (!) "Different" events of the same NATO! You did not wear "diapers", "dear" (appeal to NATO)!
          And as for the Donetsk people! I repeat: this "crap" has been in Asia and Africa! The locals “tricked” around the district, and our “specialists” and the amerskie “fought for“ them! ”Whose took, and the power!
          1. papas-57
            papas-57 20 May 2014 18: 28
            -1
            `` The military parade, in particular, the air parade in the Crimea, showed how efficient the same Russian air forces are. '' What, what, but the show in the Soviet (Russian) Army learned to do brilliantly. The one whose boss has a better window dressing is also the best: awards, titles, honor, etc. etc.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. Horst78
          Horst78 20 May 2014 16: 57
          +1
          Clearly and properly. The war is lost when the last fighter died.
        3. ks
          ks 20 May 2014 18: 50
          -2
          To Putin questions to the fig and to the dill, many of his affairs were wonderful.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Eugeniy_369k
        Eugeniy_369k 20 May 2014 15: 21
        -4
        Quote: ranger
        Gaddafi himself came to power as a result of a military coup, overthrowing the king, who didn’t particularly spread rot, the country lived, in general, calmly ...

        Well, this is if you objectively say it from the outside, and if you attach your personal affection multiplied by the agitation industry to that, then you can look for something common with Gaddafi’s in Strelkov-Girkin. And what’s the author, then immediately look for something in common with Lenin and Strelkov-Girkin laughing .
      4. DEfindER
        DEfindER 20 May 2014 15: 45
        +4
        Quote: ranger
        in general, if you recall the recent history, Gaddafi himself came to power as a result of a military coup

        It was not a military coup but a full-fledged revolution that gives birth to real leaders whom the people worship. Call me at least one leader of the Ukrainian coup? The only one there who understands what Yarosh is doing, who in his speeches has already surpassed the Führer himself, cannot even compare the rest with amoebas ..
        1. Anper
          Anper 20 May 2014 17: 43
          +2
          Quote: DEfindER
          Call me at least one leader of the Ukrainian coup?

          Well, what about this? (Open in a new tab)
        2. creak
          creak 20 May 2014 18: 03
          0
          DeFinder Name at least one leader of the Ukrainian coup ...

          But was there really a single word in my comment about Ukraine? I wrote about the overthrow of King Idris in 1969 by a group of young officers led by Captain Gadduffy. You can call this event anything you like, but it does not attract revolution - the population did not participate in it, only a few army units commanded by Gaddafi’s associates ...
          And why is it necessary to drag in Ukraine, Yarosh, etc., as they say in the same Ukraine - in the elderberry garden, and uncle in Kiev, do not bring everything together ...
          1. DEfindER
            DEfindER 22 May 2014 16: 18
            0
            Quote: ranger
            I wrote about the overthrow of King Idris in 1969 by a group of young officers led by Captain Gadduffy. You can call this event as you like, but it does not attract revolution - the population did not participate in it

            You just described an ideal revolution, a reference, so to speak, without casualties among the population. And while fully meeting the desires of the people. For the overthrow of the monarchy is an exceptional case.
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. Polovec
        Polovec 20 May 2014 15: 48
        +3
        There are no easy solutions in a civil war. And any engineer or plumber clapping his hands is not ready to become a soldier. Until now, the overwhelming majority of the population is passive because it does not see much difference in the everyday sense from the choice of one or another side. Everything is at the emotional and political level. And blaming citizens for this is difficult. Was it different in Russia in 1918?
        Today, the Russian Federation needs social assistance. It must be shown that an alliance with the Russian Federation is more profitable to the average layman. Then, perhaps, he will fight for a better life.
        Americans with the only promises of a paradise pro-Western life bought the support of a huge part of Ukraine. It’s hard and hard for an ordinary person to look into geopolitics. He is interested in his own house.
        And Ukraine is far from exclusive in this. All people are the same.
        We must offer something for which a locksmith or an accountant will go into battle. There were no offers yet!
        There is another option. Battalion "Vostok". But this is very "exclusive" ...
      7. Homo
        Homo 20 May 2014 17: 36
        +2
        Quote: ranger
        Actually, if you recall the recent history, Gaddafi himself came to power as a result of a military coup, overthrowing the king, who didn’t particularly spread rot, the country lived, in general, calmly ...

        Firstly, a military coup in those parts is a common thing,
        secondly, when Gaddafi began to live a little calmer and (albeit quite a bit) but richer,
        in the third time, the monarchs left and those who did not understand this need to be pushed!
        And last, when Gaddafi began to live better:
        GDP per capita - 14 192 $.
        For each member of the family, the state pays 1 000 $ a year in subsidies.
        Unemployment benefit - 730 $.
        ... The salary of a nurse is $ 1.
        For each newborn, 7 000 $ is paid.
        The newlyweds are given 64 000 $ for the purchase of an apartment.
        At the opening of a personal business one-time financial assistance - 20 000 $.
        Large taxes and fees are prohibited.
        Education and medicine are free.
        Education and training abroad - at the expense of the state.
        A network of shops for large families with symbolic prices for staple foods.
        For the sale of products with an expired shelf life - heavy fines and detention by special police units.
        Part of the pharmacies - with the free release of drugs.
        For counterfeit drugs - the death penalty.
        The rent is absent.
        There is no payment for electricity for the population.
        Sale and use of alcohol is prohibited - "dry law".
        Credits to buy a car and an apartment are interest free.
        Realtor services are prohibited.
        Buying a car up to 50% is paid for by the state, for the militia fighters - 65%.
        Gasoline costs less than water. 1 liter of gasoline - 0,14 $
        1. iw-lankof2011
          iw-lankof2011 21 May 2014 13: 05
          -1
          Well, what is not pre-Christian Russia, discarding modern concepts! Here is a different mentality from Russian !!!
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. volot-voin
      volot-voin 20 May 2014 14: 55
      +1
      Quote: DanSabaka
      But the miners chop the coal, and secretly swear the master-aligarch, for the fact that he (the master) sponsors the Kiev junta

      It seems like the DNI announced nationalization.
      1. DanSabaka
        DanSabaka 20 May 2014 14: 56
        -1
        like or announced?
      2. Azzzwer
        Azzzwer 20 May 2014 15: 14
        +1
        Quote: volot-voin
        It seems like the DNI announced nationalization.
        What?
        1. Kuvabatake
          Kuvabatake 20 May 2014 15: 27
          +1
          Help the one who does ...
    4. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 20 May 2014 18: 09
      +2
      "You can not ask others to fight and die on your behalf to protect you. It is your responsibility as a person. ” hi these are the words of the statesman ... he died as a Man "Yanukovych, study! you are ridiculed, but he is already a Legend ...
    5. vo.dum
      vo.dum 21 May 2014 02: 11
      0
      It’s not long for them to chop a piece of coal ... but in essence ... everything is right ... people can fight only the blood of those who care about you ... or fear ... there are few ideological everywhere ... is the sociology of all people. .. no one wanted to die ... and why should Donetsk miners die by and large ??? Yes, language and Russianness ... and in everyday life ??? as always, people will not get easier from changing the owners of life ... That would put forward the slogan -the land to the peasants, the factories of the workers ...
  2. awg75
    awg75 20 May 2014 14: 36
    +1
    all by yourself ...
  3. MOISEY
    MOISEY 20 May 2014 14: 37
    +2
    That's right, water does not flow under a lying stone. Only the active actions of the whole population can crush the national guard, and even reach Kiev and ultimately achieve recognition of independence.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. e_krendel
    e_krendel 20 May 2014 14: 38
    +2
    Tales (cartoons, films) about Superman are not just fairy tales, but for education. Not one generation has already grown up on these tales. And at the appointed hour they sat at the telly, waiting for his arrival. sad
  6. jktu66
    jktu66 20 May 2014 14: 38
    +4
    “War, if it is not won in Libya, will come to you tomorrow. Get ready for her. Prepare traps for invaders. You must protect your home. Be united. Strengthen your defense, for they will come to you if they destroy us. ”
    Gaddafi is right. The war is already on the borders of our country. If we do not take measures, then it may break out with us.
  7. Arsenal
    Arsenal 20 May 2014 14: 39
    0
    Article-Axiom.
    Which does not require: neither evidence nor refutation, nor addition.

    So it was, it is. Unfortunately
  8. SSR
    SSR 20 May 2014 14: 39
    +3
    The article is a definite plus for the phrase that we raised individualists. Nobody can sit back on the sidelines.
    1. Azzzwer
      Azzzwer 20 May 2014 15: 16
      +2
      Quote: SSR
      Nobody can sit back on the sidelines.
      Well, in the 1940, the French learned a lot, but why won't we succeed?
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 20 May 2014 15: 22
      +4
      Quote: SSR
      of us raised individualists.

      Favorite principle of the Anglo-Saxons: divide and conquer. And also bribery and betrayal of "bad guys". For 23 years the rulers of Ukraine, under the vigilant attention of the Yankees, have reforged the collectivism of socialist consciousness into the individualism of the capitalist world. Now - my hut is on the edge, I will turn over in any regime, but no, I'll go to Canada. That's all the patriotism of the Ukrainian population today. Not all are like that, but from someone the same Kalo-Moisky is recruiting the same battalions Donbass-2 and Donbass-3. How can you not remember the famous: "Quiet Ukrainian night ... but the fat must be re-hid!"
      1. ks
        ks 20 May 2014 19: 09
        0
        It’s not true, h.ohl.y always been like that.
    3. ks
      ks 20 May 2014 19: 06
      +1
      It will turn out and even very hard workers again and the bumpkin will go, and those who are in clubs and auto-party hang out daddies will be reluctant to be sure, but whether this is necessary to protect this code is the question.
  9. ispaniard
    ispaniard 20 May 2014 14: 39
    +6
    "STRELOK" ... Even now, thanks to him and "Babay", as a Russian by origin, I can look directly into the eyes of the UKRAINIANS THINKING AND SINCERELY LOVING MY HOMELAND! The Russians came to your aid not for Kalomoysky's grandmothers, not for gingerbread Nuland not for the tales of Ti-Moshonki ... The Russians came to your aid simply because you are our BROTHERS and no matter how the situation turns, our conscience before the Ukrainians is clear, Donbass will rise or not. P.S. And I believe in the victory of the SLAVS, we have no other choice ...
    1. iw-lankof2011
      iw-lankof2011 20 May 2014 16: 05
      -1
      They also believed Yugoslavia ... and then what?
      1. Horst78
        Horst78 20 May 2014 17: 02
        0
        Quote: iw-lankof2011
        They also believed Yugoslavia ... and then what?

        What's next? The war has been going on for over 20 years. As long as there is memory and the enemy has not given up, what are your suggestions? And do not speak for residents of the SFRY and Serbia and Mitochia. It’s up to them to decide when the war will end on THEIR EARTH,
        1. iw-lankof2011
          iw-lankof2011 20 May 2014 18: 23
          0
          Since when did the land, which was considered primordially Slavic, suddenly became someone's "theirs", after such conversations, the land in the Central Russian zone will soon be considered a kind of "theirs", and once we helped them "to solve them all deeds and results are evident.
  10. mig31
    mig31 20 May 2014 14: 40
    +1
    Paralleled by parallels, but do not confuse Libya with Ukraine, the Slavs have a different mindset, and ministry, and history, and, and, and ...
    1. Arsenal
      Arsenal 20 May 2014 14: 45
      +2
      Paralleled by parallels, but do not confuse Libya with Ukraine, the Slavs have a different mindset, and ministry, and history, and, and, and ...


      Nobody argues with you. In this article, the author tries to convey yes to us, one, the most important (in my opinion).
      "You can not ask others to fight and die on your behalf to protect you. It is your responsibility as a person. ”
    2. Azzzwer
      Azzzwer 20 May 2014 15: 18
      0
      Quote: mig31
      the Slavs have a different mindset, and history, and, and, and, and ...

      oh well, more than one generation of Slavs has grown up with universal values!
    3. iw-lankof2011
      iw-lankof2011 21 May 2014 12: 49
      -1
      Oh !?
      Quote: mig31
      Paralleled by parallels, but do not confuse Libya with Ukraine, the Slavs have a different mindset, and ministry, and history, and, and, and ...

      In order to assert this, it is necessary to go through archaeological, ethnic and genetic data; and it will not help Gd, but those who did this, well, for example: Yu. D. Petukhov and A. A. Klyosov, after reading which, enlightenment and a lack of desire to affirm anything else immediately sets in.
    4. iw-lankof2011
      iw-lankof2011 21 May 2014 12: 49
      -1
      Oh !?
      Quote: mig31
      Paralleled by parallels, but do not confuse Libya with Ukraine, the Slavs have a different mindset, and ministry, and history, and, and, and ...

      In order to assert this, it is necessary to go through archaeological, ethnic and genetic data; and it will not help Gd, but those who did this, well, for example: Yu. D. Petukhov and A. A. Klyosov, after reading which, enlightenment and a lack of desire to affirm anything else immediately sets in.
  11. Not angry
    Not angry 20 May 2014 14: 44
    +1
    An instructive article is something to ponder.
    As the truth goes, you want to change the world, start with yourself.
  12. Giant thought
    Giant thought 20 May 2014 14: 44
    +2
    Old as the world. Alien hands rake in the heat. Here come the liberators, and they will set us free; here comes the master, the master will judge us; and so at all times, regardless of location. If there are enough weapons in eastern Ukraine for everyone, then forced mobilization must be introduced, just as the Reds and the Whites did in Civil.
    1. ludoger
      ludoger 20 May 2014 15: 23
      +1
      Yes, here the dynamites are dynamite, and you say for forced labor (((((((((((
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 20 May 2014 15: 27
      +3
      Quote: Thought Giant
      forced mobilization must be introduced, as both the Reds and the Whites acted in the Civil.

      Legislatively, the DPR seems to have taken shape yesterday. The next step should be the mobilization of draft age in the Armed Forces of the republic. And there you can already plan operations.
    3. ks
      ks 20 May 2014 19: 14
      +1
      Thank God at least one with a head found.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 20 May 2014 14: 47
    +4
    Somehow like this...

  15. Strashila
    Strashila 20 May 2014 14: 48
    +5
    “For the same reason that potential defenders of Donbass are now sitting out, they hoped that someone would decide everything without their participation.” ... they do not sit back, they literally cut money ... they were not bad before, they are not bad now ... well, like they always need energy producers alternative to Russian gas ... they are overflowing with their own importance ... supporters of federalization turn to them and the oligarch fawns.
    Only soon will no one need their little coal ... nor can anyone afford it.
  16. nikrandel
    nikrandel 20 May 2014 14: 49
    +4
    Libya under Gaddafi was one of the most prosperous states of North Africa.
    But the Western "carriers of democracy" put their hand into the affairs of the country, and Libya joined a number of countries that received a portion of "democracy" in the form of civil war and economic collapse.
    Where the USA is, there is death and chaos.
  17. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 20 May 2014 14: 52
    +4
    Everything is fair, it’s not the USSR when the people as one came to the defense of the Motherland, now the majority has a dollar, and the motherland where they feed well,
  18. Arh
    Arh 20 May 2014 14: 53
    +15
    Gaddafi Hero of His People !!!
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 20 May 2014 18: 00
      +2
      Quote: Arh
      Gaddafi Hero of His People !!!

      The people who betrayed their leader will be cursed from above.
  19. Nikolav
    Nikolav 20 May 2014 14: 55
    +3
    Lev Nikolayevich Gumilyov has such a law that he formulated. After the jump in passionarity, which leads to the formation of powerful states and empires, there is a gradual decline, the erosion of passionarity, the degeneration of once active people in effeminate inhabitants, which leads to the collapse of states and empires under the onslaught of external and internal enemies. According to him, there are three phases of this process, which approximately lasts 1500-1700 years. According to my calculations, we are in the third, final phase. Therefore, much is understandable from this point of view, although most, I believe, will be extremely unpleasant to hear about it.
    1. Old warrant officer
      Old warrant officer 20 May 2014 16: 06
      +3
      Based on this, it turns out that starting from the 15th century, Russia gradually began to decay? And the Kulikovo Field, and the wars of Peter 1, the annexation of lands by Catherine 11, the war of 1812, two world wars, a breakthrough into space, the mastery of nuclear energy and other things are signs of the degeneration of the Russian people? Complete nonsense, carefully read Gumilyov!
      1. Nikolav
        Nikolav 20 May 2014 16: 31
        +2
        Gumilyov I just read carefully and a lot. In his recent interviews, he politely and delicately smoothed the subject. It's not about individual episodes. The Romans fought to the last. But the power was in decline, mired in luxury and debauchery. Citizens did not want to serve in the army. She was equipped with diverse mercenaries. Although the achievements in the field of culture from Rome can not be taken away. And the Roman Empire fell. I do not want to draw parallels. Tens of millions of the most intelligent and active people were knocked out for World War I, Civil, Great Patriotic War, which could not affect the development of the country and its gene pool ... Alas ...
        1. ks
          ks 20 May 2014 19: 23
          0
          In Rome, the whole culture was Greek, as in America, it’s the Euro one now and the Romans basically culturally cut out for the sake of resources, as now ...
    2. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 20 May 2014 16: 19
      +3
      Quote: Nicholas
      According to him, there are three phases of this process, which approximately lasts 1500-1700 years.

      This is in the case of regeneration, i.e. when the process goes from negative values ​​to positive (by passionarity). You indicate the first three stages.
      Quote: Nicholas
      According to my calculations, we are in the third, final phase.

      In my discussion of the article "The Passionarity of the Farmer and the Craftsman" I raised the question of the Russian super-ethnos being in the stage of obscuration (ie negative values ​​of passionarity). See: http://topwar.ru/46320-passionarnost-zemledelca-i-remeslennika.html#comment-id-2

      451122
      However, from consideration of the passionarity schedule, we still have the regeneration stage (if we can), and then the relict stage (if regeneration succeeds).
      Re-link to the chart: http://topwar.ru/46320-passionarnost-zemledelca-i-remeslennika.html#comment-id-2
      451122
      1. Nikolav
        Nikolav 20 May 2014 16: 42
        +1
        Thank you, I will be interested in your opinion.
        1. Nikolav
          Nikolav 21 May 2014 09: 11
          +1
          I watched your discussion with interest. It seemed to me that your opponent was bronzed in his academic opinion: “This cannot be, because it can never be!” Is the main argument. I am not a historian or ethnologist, I also do not have a scientific degree. I am convinced that history is largely falsified. By the way, the process of falsification is going on right before our eyes. Everyone in the West is sure that America defeated Germany. I think 20-30 years will pass, and the textbooks will say that the atomic bomb was dropped on Japan not by the B-29 Superfortress "Enola Bay", but by the Soviet Pe-8 bomber with the inscription aboard the Japan BEY!
    3. iw-lankof2011
      iw-lankof2011 20 May 2014 17: 52
      -1
      These jumps and grimaces have been observed among the Russians for at least two and a half millennia (I deliberately write one "s") and, as always, Christian "Rome equipped our brothers Slavs against us, though now not brothers, but traitors, what is happening And now. It is enough to look back into the 20th century in the 2nd World War and we will find among those who fought against us both the people who gave us Jesus, and our "brothers" - Bulgarians (mother fucking awkward) and many other similar "brothers" ... well, as always, again, all our brothers are ahead of the planet. For at least 2 millennia we could retreat somewhere from the Mediterranean, but now we have nowhere to retreat: behind us the Ural Mountains are one of the places of our origin and only Will the Russian civilization depend on us? Citizens of the Rusyans learn your ancient history
      1. Oprychnik
        Oprychnik 21 May 2014 03: 19
        +1
        What story do you build your conclusion from? According to the Slavic Vedas, which no one has seen, or according to the conclusion of science fiction historians like Fomenko? And on what primary sources do you suggest us to study our history? If according to Fomenko, then discard a thousand years from the existing reckoning. Move Jerusalem to Istanbul, etc. And in general, if you adhere to this point of view, then the source of civilization in the whole world is proto-shelter, which for 140000 years has taught savages agriculture, metalworking, navigation, to breed and give them the ABC. Take a real look at life.
        1. iw-lankof2011
          iw-lankof2011 21 May 2014 10: 36
          -1
          And I taught history according to Klassen Orbini Karamzin (so damned later for what he did not understand), etc., etc. Well, you, apparently, studied it from the Bible, without any there were no options.
          1. Oprychnik
            Oprychnik 21 May 2014 20: 41
            0
            I know who Orbini is.))) I admit honestly, I read Karamzin.))) And the Bible, that was hidden, read. You seem to have limited ourselves to studying the History of Ukraine-Russia in the latest edition. All of us, in a straight line, are going on from Adam and Eve. ABOUT YOU WITH CONFIDENCE I CAN'T APPROVE. APPROVED THAT THE LILITA HAS BEEN ANOTHER ...)))
  20. Vlad Gore
    Vlad Gore 20 May 2014 14: 58
    +6
    Quote: ranger
    Actually, if you recall the recent history, Gaddafi himself came to power as a result of a military coup, overthrowing the king, who didn’t particularly spread rot, the country lived, in general, calmly ...

    You are wrong here. "In 1959, significant deposits of oil were discovered in Libya, and the proceeds from its subsequent production turned Libya from one of the poorest countries in the world into one of the richest. Although oil significantly changed the country's financial situation, the revenues from its production were concentrated in the hands of a narrow power layer. that caused DISSOLVE in the community. " The king may not have "spread rot", but he did not let him "fatten" either. Under Gaddafi, natural resources worked for the entire society. yes
  21. starik80
    starik80 20 May 2014 14: 58
    +1
    Everything is written correctly ... there is nothing to add.
  22. Roshchin
    Roshchin 20 May 2014 15: 04
    +1
    In our time, the willingness to fight for their land, as well as to defend their own and others' interests, must be supported not only by a sense of patriotism, devotion to the idea, but also by money. Americans drove to the Maidan not so much bags with buns as bags of money. Contrast bags of dollars with bags of rubles.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 20 May 2014 15: 23
      +7
      You won’t buy freedom for money bags! They are defending freedom with arms in their hands!
  23. Free Island
    Free Island 20 May 2014 15: 28
    +8
    BROTHERS .. WHO Either of you read the Green Book? it is called the "Green Book" ..... I read it long before NATO raped a small proud Libya .. in it Muammar wrote about true democracy .. and in fact, in his country, in his Libya, this democracy was! There was free medical care, there was free quality education, in ITS Libya even the unemployed received an allowance from oil revenues, which was twice as much as the pensions of Russian pensioners ... there was a great Libyan leader, whom the filthy, fetid Americans tried bombing back in the 70s ... the Christian and Muslim people of Libya lived peacefully and amicably .. everything was exactly the same as in the secular Muslim state of Syria .. Christian is a brother to a Muslim and a good neighbor ... but pissed mattresses came and ruined ... the live orgasm of Herlitam Clitoris as she squeaked her piggy "Wow!" looking at how they beat Muammar to death .. tsuki .. as if they all in their North America were suffocated by some kind of infection.
    1. ks
      ks 20 May 2014 19: 25
      0
      There was also the USSR.
      1. iw-lankof2011
        iw-lankof2011 20 May 2014 22: 08
        -1
        Quote: vvs
        There was also the USSR.

        which we together and pissed away for the chewed chewing gum and Elvis Priestle shaking, having launched such a mechanism of destruction that we still cannot realize.
  24. made13
    made13 20 May 2014 16: 03
    +1
    Unfortunately, what happened in Libya and what is happening in Ukraine is a consequence of the fact that the leaders of these countries forgot the saying: "if you want peace, prepare for war," and hoped for international support, and their own people were deprived of the core that would not let them break.
  25. mamont5
    mamont5 20 May 2014 16: 32
    +3
    "The war, if it is not won in Libya, will come to you tomorrow. Prepare for it. Prepare traps for the invaders. You must defend your home. Be united. Build up your defenses, for they will come to you if they destroy us." "

    All right. Here the war came to Ukraine. But the lesson is not learned.
  26. ed65b
    ed65b 20 May 2014 16: 37
    +1
    Russia - everywhere there is one misfortune - for decades we have been consciously torn from the state, educated in the spirit of individualism, accustomed to comfort. All so that at hour X we would rather stay in comfortable apartments and not get involved. After all, we are sure that at the most critical moment a superhero will surely appear in tight pants and will save us all a second before the end.

    No author. You are wrong. For the most part, Russian youth are patriotic and if the time comes X they will not wait for someone, but they will get up and go. Whether they are volunteers as contract soldiers but will be in positions with weapons in their hands. This is my strong conviction and confidence.
  27. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 20 May 2014 17: 32
    +1
    Have you ever wondered why no one wants to change a burned out light bulb in the entrance? And when, finally, someone changes (because his mother-in-law has cleaned him up), everyone considers him a fool? I would call it "neighbor syndrome". "My hut is on the edge." How to raise people to fight for their freedom? Pay them? Paradox. And the answer is the following: if you sit and wait for the weather, you are next, and no one will change this fate.

    Courage is contagious; it can be taught if clear, direct explanations are given.

    In the film "Braveheart", William Wallace, the hero of Scotland, at the moment when several chiefs of the clans scared the English army, which was larger and more organized than the Scottish one, and decided to leave the battlefield before the battle, rode out in front of the army and said the following:

    "... Yes, you can now leave this battle, return home, and most likely you will live to old age. But when you die in your bed, you suddenly want to come back here, to this battle, to die here in the name of freedom and Greater Scotland! ... "

    Every fair war should have its own William Wallace.
  28. bda
    bda 20 May 2014 18: 22
    +2
    Quote: Arh
    Gaddafi Hero of His People !!!


    A very competent and useful article (although it may be more fun to read about "Great Banderia", but the mobilization potential from it will be negative - everyone will sit down more comfortably on the sofas and will wait for "Banderia" to become "great", and this comparative analysis may motivate whom to act).

    Although there is also a nuance here: in the past centuries and years, there were also a lot of people who wanted to sit out wars and hardships on the stove (and not only here). In order for people to take and leave en masse, not only an external danger is needed - it is necessary to combine the authorities (or its most capable part - the "de facto" elite, and not by position) and the people. Then the people become invincible. But this requires a special talent - or rather even holiness - like D. Donsky and S. Radonezhsky, D. Pozharsky, K. Minin, Patriarch Hermogenes and St. Irinarch the recluse, etc. - the whole country is in shit, and the people recklessly believe them, that's all.
    The late M. Gaddafi (Peace be upon him!) Was a great politician, but ... the people couldn’t raise theirs and not only because of the passivity of the people (after all, the enemies could find those who rose!) - but also because they saw something at him did not stick together - people did not follow him at a decisive moment. Do not go and all! They did not believe him recklessly!
    There is such a very well-known term "Byzantineism" (it is fashionable with us nowadays with the deceased Byzantium, peace be upon it, to be compared). And the meaning of that term is not very attractive. It means, in a nutshell, the desire to solve all problems by intrigue (now called "hardware games"). In this the Byzantine nobility reached unprecedented heights. And she solved many problems with great success - both internal and external. And this success led to the fact that they had simply forgotten how to solve problems in other ways: why the ability to raise all the people to battle, and even this battle and conduct it when you can bribe enemies, deceive, quarrel, etc. How it all ended for Byzantium, everything is in the know, there is only one caveat: when the troops of Mehmed the Conqueror numbering 120 - 140 thousand soldiers and militias approached the well-fortified Constantinople, there were 300 - 500 thousand people in the city (data differ due to estimates of the number refugees from the suburbs).
    In the besieged city, doomed to death, at the call of the emperor, all this crowd put up on the city walls ... 5 thousand militias (who fled from these walls at the very first shots, giving the opportunity ... Genoese and Venetian mercenaries in total about 1 thousand people to cover themselves with unfading glory). not because it so happened that all the Greeks (Byzantines) suddenly became cowards - they could not follow the emperor, who with one hand called them to battle, and with the other, for the sake of "political gain", renounced Orthodoxy in the direction of union with the Catholics, with On the one hand, he tried to collect funds from the residents for organizing the defense, and on the other, he loaded his family jewels into galleys sailing to the West (so that the family decreasing in the same direction would not live in poverty), called people "to arms," he was in no hurry to open it (and suddenly the rabble, having received a weapon, will come out of obedience).
    When a gulf of distrust lies between the people and the authorities, no sound calls will help anymore - no one will believe them. And so that this abyss was not ... those who call to be ... not just a great politician, commander, etc., but really, maybe in some ways sacred.

    And Igor Ivanovich Strelkov - God grant both strength and good luck and ... us - people who would believe him recklessly!
    1. Mainbeam
      Mainbeam 20 May 2014 23: 44
      0
      In a friendly way to broaden horizons:
      http://slon.ru/russia/iz_kryma_v_donbass_priklyucheniya_igorya_strelkova_i_aleks
      andra_borodaya-1099696.xhtml
  29. Mainbeam
    Mainbeam 20 May 2014 21: 39
    +1
    Prozorov "Mirror of Veles"


    You are right, son, - the boyar unexpectedly easily agreed. - In Russia, everyone is born equal. And you become to own or belong - everyone decides for himself. The Lord is so established that only one who is ready to defend it has the right to own land. Is not this the highest justice?

    There are people like you or me. We keep the land and rightfully own it. When a vorog comes, we take a sword and stand to meet it.

    And there are those who do not want to lay their belly for their inheritance, for bread and children that grow in his house. They come to us and say: “Protect us from the hell, boyar. Save our bellies and the good that we obtain by our labor. ” And we admit them to our land, and we protect them, and we are free from them. It is not the Lord who decides. So they decide. So we decide. Can anyone who is not ready to fight for his property have anything? How can those who fight and those who are submissive be equal?

    We - boyars. Because they are always ready for battle. They - stinkers. Because they do not dare to stand with their breasts to meet arrows and swords. We are gentlemen - they are slaves. Isn't that fair?

    As for serfsthen they themselves have chosen their destiny. In their hearts they are warriors, defenders, rulers. Yes, they do not have enough patience to find their possessions, they do not have kinship or buy silver weapons and armor. Lazy they are often ali stupid and do not know how to define their aspirations. They do not want to be slaves - but among the boyars they are not able to get places. Therefore, they come to us and say: buy my life, boyar. Buy my belly and my blood. Together we will defend the land that you own. You pay them sonorous silver, and afterwards they go into battle with you, along with you they turn their heads under swords.





  30. bda
    bda 21 May 2014 21: 01
    0
    Quote: Nicholas
    Lev Nikolayevich Gumilyov has such a law that he formulated. After the jump in passionarity, which leads to the formation of powerful states and empires, there is a gradual decline, the erosion of passionarity, the degeneration of once active people in effeminate inhabitants, which leads to the collapse of states and empires under the onslaught of external and internal enemies. According to him, there are three phases of this process, which approximately lasts 1500-1700 years. According to my calculations, we are in the third, final phase. Therefore, much is understandable from this point of view, although most, I believe, will be extremely unpleasant to hear about it.

    Dear Lev Nikolaevich is forgivable - he did not have the Internet and he did not have the opportunity to open Wikipedia and type the word "China".
  31. bda
    bda 21 May 2014 21: 11
    +1
    in Russia - the trouble is everywhere - we have been deliberately separated from the state for decades

    In our country, from 1917 to the present day, the state has been doing everything so that the people would never dare to take the initiative (if you defend yourself against a criminal - you will get more than a criminal). Only once (in 1941) was there a leader who had enough strength and authority to go out to people and say: "Brothers and sisters ...". And not only to say, but also to really raise the people.
    All the rest tried to use the people exclusively in the "approvals" mode.